as upon a foundation you state your Question And if the foundation be not sure the superstructure cannot be secure Now Brother doe you set these two Termes Dependent and Independent at such odds as if there were a great gulfe betweene them never to come together and become one You hold of Dependent onely we hold not onely of Independent but Dependent also I shall make this cleare Your Church Dependent is so called in a two-fold relation First Because it depends for its forme of Government upon the lawes of civill States and so as the Chaâ—â—leon receives impressions of sundry formes changeable according to the present condition of the Civill Power whether Protestant or Papist Christian or Antichristian as our Brother hath set forth so as by this meanes Christs Church and Kingdome his Spouse that woman clothed with the Sunne and having on her head a crowne of twelve starres and the Moone under her feete should her selfe be turned into the Moone as being subject to continuall changes Secondly Because your Church Dependent depends necessarily upon a combination of Presbyters of many Churches as Councels Synods Assemblies Classes without whose counsell say you nothing is to be done in any particular Church of which more hereafter On the other side The Churches which you call Independent are also Dependent First They are not otherwise Independent then first that they are not nor ought in respect of Doctrine Discipline Worship Church-Government to depend upon humane Lawes Canons Decrees Customes but onely upon Christ and his Lawes as wherein they assert and hold forth Christs Kingly Office and Government over them and doe affirme that to set up humane formes of worship and Church-Government unto which the consciences and soules of Gods people must necessarily conforme and be subject is a dethroning of the Lord Jesus Christ and a denying him to be the onely King of his Church Secondly Independent in this respect because every particular visible Church rightly constituted according to the Word of God depends not directly and necessarily upon any other Church or Churches as without whose jurisdiction call it Presbyterian or what you will it may not exercise all that power which Christ hath given to every particular Church as touching all the Offices and Ordinances thereof and that in as ample manner as if there were besides that one no other Churches in the World And yet secondly This Church thus Independent is also Dependent For as it depends absolutely upon Christ as the onely Head of this Body so as it is a member-church of the Catholick and a sister-church of all particular Churches with which it makes up one body and one Spouse of Christ her Head and Husband so it hath a mutuall dependence upon all true Churches for communion for consociation for consultation for comfort for support though alwayes saving and retaining to it selfe all those Church-priviledges which by Christs Charter are peculiar to every particular Church and body of Jesus Christ And in case this particular Church doe any act of censure upon any who thereby shall thinke himselfe wronged and shall addresse himselfe to other Churches by way of complaint and they shall thereupon desire of that church an account of their proceedings therein this church will not refuse but as in Christian duty bound will to those Churches render a reason of that or any other their doings if questioned and lawfully required And all this in a sweet and loving way with meeknesse and feare 1 Pet. 3. 15. so as none is debarred of any such appeale Nor is any well constituted Church of Christ to be conceived so brutish or so conceited of her selfe as to thinke shee may not erre or her selfe so wise as in many difficult cases not to need the counsell of others or so inflexible as with the Stoicks Sententiam mutare nunquam nullius rei poenitere never to change their minde or judgement of nothing to repent when convinced of an error But what if one particular Church will not after all due meanes used which yet no rationall man can imagine will ever come to passe hearken to the unanimous judgement and counsell of the other Churches What is to be done Surely they may upon just cause withdraw communion from that Church which in that case is the highest censure the Churches can proceed to And if the party aggrieved complaine to the civill Magistrate the Church being called is accountable to the power Thus have I plainely clearely and fully as I conceive stated these two Termes Dependent and Independent whereby is sufficiently cleared to the view of all unpartiall Judges not possessed with prejudice our Dependent Independency or Independent Dependency from your manner of stating And for your Simile wherein you propound it for better understanding as you say it halteth down-right of all foure as being altogether Ab-simile and Heterogeneous of another nature There is a vast disproportion between a civill Government and Ecclesiasticall the one established upon mans lawes the other on Gods the one various and variable according to severall Civill States Kingdomes and Lawes the other one and the same or should be if right in all the Churches of the Saints having one Rule one Law to walke by immutable And Brother for your paralleling of your many severall Congregations in one Citie or one Division or Hundred or within such a Circuit with a great Corporation as of London where is one Lord Major and Aldermen and Common Councell and so reducing so many Churches into one Corporation as so many Companies making upone Citie I suppose you meane not that one Provinciall with his Diocesans and Priests under them should make up this Parallel But this of necessitie you must doe if you will have all the Congregations in their severall Divisions or Weapontacks to be governed by their severall Presbyteries respectively Reason requires that first you set up such Presbyters over every one of your Congregations as may be for the greatest part of them good pious learned orthodox or otherwise if the greater party be Malignant and ill affected prophane and haters of the power of Godlinesse they will over-vote the good party and so what a hard yoake will you put upon the necks of all such as be truly godly when they shall be cast out by a malignant Parochiall Congregation and going to complaine to your Presbytery they shall finde as cold comfort as formerly they have done in the Prelates Consistory But there will be a better care had of placing good Presbyters But Brother let us first see it that so your Presbyterian Government may shew us a face the more amiable and lesse formidable to all truly godly and most conscientious men But if you cannot doe this whither shall the poore soules goe which live under a prophane Presbyter or one that admits all sorts tag rag to the Lords Table with whom godly soules can no more converse then with Heathen and much lesse at that holy
Ordinance where they must be made companions with such kinde of Saints as Job would not set with the dogs of his flocke And if any whose conscience is not so strong to digest such hard bits as others of the common multitude are who either see no difference at all between the precious and the vile but account all alike Saints at least when but at the Sacrament or have such Sepulchre-wide throats as they can swallow a Camell when a tender and more narrow conscience is apt to be choaked with every Gnat What shall this poore soule doe Doth he rather withdraw from the Ordinance then he can endure to see it so prophaned and so partake with the prophaners then he heares A Schismaticke Now if you have not a good Presbytery where shall he goe to complaine He may goe and appeale higher you will say And what if the higher the worse Good Brother either provide the people of the Land an honest godly Presbytery that may be as so many Angels to gather out of Christs Kingdome every thing that offends or else let there be a tender care of tender consciences and some provision made for them that they may not be scandalized by being forced to be the companions of the scandalous And therefore Brother you that professe so much solicitous care to poore bodies let some drops of your charity fall upon their soules And at the least and last extremity call in that Postscript of yours and suppresse it in the Presse that it may never see the Sunne as wherein you proscribe all those that are not of your Dependent Presbytery for you tell us it is to come forth a fortnight hence in the which it will be proved that it is the duty of all christian Magistrates Parents Masters of families and all such as truly feare God to yeeld their hand for the suppressing of heresies and all novelties in Religion if they really desire the glory of God c. And what you meane by your heresies and novelties in Religion is obvious to all by this your Booke already come forth Independency is heresie and novelty in Religion and what not that nought is Now did ever proceed out of the mouth of a quondam-Martyr and one newly brought out of a balefull prison such a fiery breath as this Oh Brother remember thy selfe and repent and let the world know that thou hast made a better use of afflictions then so fiercely to run on in such a course as to wreck the malignity of a prison upon thy best friends the seed of whose love so liberally sowne upon thee and thine expected another-gates harvest then nettles bryars and thornes But you bring the Scripture for you Come on Brother let you and me try it out by the dint of this sword And truly I shall by the helpe of my God make no long worke of it You spend above eleven sheets wherein you have woven sundry long threaden Arguments to measure out your Dependent Presbytery as holding parallell with the line of Scripture Now you must pardon me if I shall assay according to an old Proverbe with one stroake of Phocions hatchet to cut in two the long thread of your Alcibiadian fluent and luxuriant Rhetorications For answer First let me aske you a Question Whether those many Congregations you so call you doe not understand to be so many distinct and particular intire Church-bodies or Churches respectively If they be tell us if each of these Churches be 〈◊〉 its prime and proper notion an intire Church without or before it be united in such a Presbyterian Combination and Government as you speake of And if so whether it be de esse or de bene esse of the being or onely well-being of each particular Church so to be united and combined into a Church-collective of many Churches into one If you say it is of the being of a Church to be yoaked with other Churches as into one then what being had that Church in Abrahams family seeing there were then no other Churches in the world but that And if that were extraordinary as perhaps you will say then say I when Churches are multiplied and combined into one whether is this Church collective Dependent or Independent If Dependent then not an entire Church but subordinate unto or depending upon some greater Assembly But come we to the highest of all a generall Counsell of all the Churches in the world is this now a Church Dependent or Independent If Independent then there may be a Church Independent in the world and so the first particular Church in the world was no lesse an Independent Church in reference to other Churches And if all Churches in one Oecumenicall Councell as one Church be Dependent then whereupon Dependent Or is it a Dependent on it selfe That were blasphemy to say it Whereon then Surely on the Scripture or nothing All Churches then are Dependent upon the Scripture necessarily not so necessarily one Church upon another whether particular or generall Ergo all particular Churches being not necessarily dependent one upon another nor one upon many but absolutely dependent upon the Scripture for their ultimate or finall resolutions are no lesse Independent upon other Churches because all the Churches in the world put together cannot of themselves give forth an infallible Oracle as to say this wee command to be beleeved and observed This is Antichrists voyce Volumus jubenius The Church or Churches may shew their reasons from Scripture and labour to perswade but cannot binde them upon faith or conscience this the Holy Ghost and Scripture can onely doe But I come briefly to your Arguments whereby you would prove your Classicall Presbyterian Government and so upward The patterne hereof you take from the Christian Church at Jerusalem Hereof many arguments or rather words and tantologies you multiply and toyle your selfe and vex your Reader withall which you might have reduced to one It is in summe this In Jerusalem were many Christian Congregations and all these made but one Church and so were governed by one Presbytery But that Church at Jerusalem being the prime Apostolicke Church is a patterne for all succeeding Churches Ergo all Church-government ought to be regulated by that and consequently by a Presbytery over many Congregations For as for your indefinite enumeration of those multitudes baptized by John Baptist and by Christs Disciples we take no notice of them unlesse formed into a Church or Churches but following the expresse Scripture the first formed Church wee finde in Act. 2. which though consisting of five thousand yet it was one intire particular Church and not Churches and they continued daily {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} with one accord in one place together ver. 2. and in the Temple ver. 44. 46. growing from a hundred and twenty Act. 1. 15. to three thousand more Chap. 2. 41. and then in all five thousand Chap. 4. 4. and all these but one Church which assembled together
to heare the word in the Temple and though they wanted a convenient place so spacious as wherein to breake bread or receive the Lords Supper all together so as they were constrained to sever themselves into divers companies in severall private houses to communicate yet this severing was not a dividing of the Church into so many distinct formall Churches or Church-bodies being but so many branches of one and the same particular Church which though you call so many Congregations yet properly so many Churches they were not And therefore you never read The Churches at or in Jerusalem but The Church at Jerusalem And this no Nationall Church neither witnesse those Churches in Judea Gal. 1. 22. Whereupon I answer to your Argument and first to your Proposition I deny that those Congregations you name are so many Churches properly so called having their distinct Officers and members united into one Church-body respectively This I put you to prove And without proving it your 11 or 12 sheeâ—… spent about this Argument prove to be meere wast paper And for your Assumption that the Church at Jerusalem as being a prime Apostolicke Church is therefore a patterne for all succeeding Churches and therefore for a Classicall Presbytery over many Churches you must first prove your Proposition as before that there were many Churches in Jerusalem constituted in their distinct formes and bodies Secondly it being no more then one entire particular Church and not any Diocesan or Provinciall Church or the Presbytery thereof Classicall as you would beare us in hand it is a patterne for all particular Churches in succeeding ages and yet by your favour not so perfect a patterne as no Apostolicke Church besides it should also come in to make up the patterne compleat For we are necessarily to take all the Churches in the New Testament together to make up one entire perfect Church patterne For in the Church at Jerusalem we finde election of Officers but we finde not expressed that part of Discipline for casting out of corrupt members as in the Church of Corinth and so in the rest For the Churches were not brought forth to full perfection in one day Their very constitution had a graduall growth The Church at Jerusalem had not at first Deacons till there was a necessitie and the largenesse of the Church required seven Deacons which is no patterne for every Church to have seven Deacons The summe is to make up a compleat patterne not onely the Church at Jerusalem but that of Corinth of Ephesus those of Galâ—tia that of Philippi and the rest are to be conferred together that each may cast in its shot to make up the full reckoning that so what is not expressed in one may be supplied by the rest to make one entire platforme For the Scripture consists of many Books as so many members in one body one member cannot say to another * I have no need of thee Againe the Church at Jerusalem if it must be a patterne for all other Churches then in this that all other Churches must be subject to some one Church because Act. 15. things in question were there debated and determined and sent to other Churches to be observed But for as much as that Church at that time in those things was infallibly guided by the Holy Ghost wherewith the Apostles there were inspired in which respect their resolutions were with Authoritie It pleased the Holy Ghost and us that which no particular Church since the Apostles could ever say it followeth that the Church then at Jerusalem remaines not in all things a patterne for other Churches for a patterne must be in all things imitable and perfect Lastly for Appeales so much agitated and pressed I have said enough before and elsewhere as in my Vindication to vindicate the right use of that in point of Church matters And so I passe briefly from your first Question to your second which is concerning the manner of gathering of Churches and admitting members and Officers Viz Whether Ministers of the Gospel may out of already congregated Assemblies of believers select and choose the most principall of them into a Church-fellowship peculiar unto themselves and admit of none into their societie but such as shall enter in by a private covenant and are allowed of by the consent and approbation of all the Congregation This is your generall stating of your Question and out of the wombe thereof there doth issue a numerous brood no lesse then six Queries or if you will to usurpe your owne usuall expression so many sucking Questions hanging at the dugs of their damme your generall Question For answer to all in their order But before I answer let mee premise thus much Brother I well see and that without spectacles that among all those Independents whom you so familiarly hurle stones at and cast up dust yea durt in their faces I am not the least object in your eye as by many palpable passages in your Booke doth appeare And therefore I shall crave leave that I may have the favour to represent and personate all those my Brethren the Ministers whom Giantlike you revile and challenge and warre against under the name of Independents as taking this take upon my selfe alone in answering this your Question about gathering of Churches First then to your generall stating of the Question You say it concernes the manner of gathering Do you imply here the lawfulnesse of the matter of gathering by questioning onely the manner Your words may seeme to import so much But I will not quarrell a word I come to your Question viz. Whether Ministers of the Gospel c. Surely if any then Ministers of the Gospel may gather Churches and that for two reasons first because by the Gospel the Ministry thereof Churches are gathered to Christ Secondly because we read that the Apostles and other Ministers of the Gospel have by their Ministry gathered Churches Therefore no question but if any then Ministers of the Gospel may gather Churches to Christ I but out of already congregated Assemblies of Believers to select and choose the most principall of them Indeed this is something to purpose But tell me Brother who is it that doth this You apply it to us all and to me in particular But I deny that I so doe and I dare say the like for others And can you prove all those Parishes out of which Churches are so gathered as you say to be Assemblies of believers But they all professe to be Christians True so doe all Papists Ergo are all Popish Parishes Assemblies of Believers So as if Ministers of the Gospel should by their preaching convert sundry Papists of severall Popish Parishes to become a Church of Christ should they gather such a Church out of so many Assemblies of believers But say you wee gather Churches out of Assemblies of believing Protestants Why Brother doe you not know this to be a time of Reformation And have
we not all taken the solemne Covenant to reform our selves and others according to the word of God And to endeavour to our power to extirpate and roote out all Popery Prelacy Idolatry and Superstition out of this Kingdome And the time of this first gathering was it not then when the old service and ceremonies were in use And who hath gathered these Churches Wee Who are we that you should thus charge us As Peter and John answered Why looke yee so on us So why doe yee impute that to us which is onely to be attributed to the Gospel of the grace of God whereby our very Protestants are wonne from their old superstitions and will-worship and from under the yoake of humane formes in the matters of Christs Kingdome So as when they heare Christ is the onely King of his Kingdome the onely Law-giver of his Church and his Word the onely law and rule of all Church-government and all this demonstrated in the Word of God which they have taken a solemne Covenant in all things to follow doe you reproach us for being a people who are ready to obey Christ so soone as wee heare of him who alone is to be heard in all things whatsoever he shall say unto us And for Churches doe you Brother limit Churches to Parishes What if you finde so many hundred Parishes in England whose Inhabitants both Ministers and people are all Malignants or popishly-affected Will you have those Parishes to be so many Churches and those popish Malignants so many believers Were not this to set up Ecclesiam malignantium or Churches malignant which are no way militant but against the power of Religion and the peace of the civill State Or if there be found some one or two in each of those Parishes that have the love of Christ in them and are truly godly and whose soules are grieved to communicate with Sodome Will you not allow God to send an Angel his Messenger with a word to call them forth And doe you not know that the ancient Church of the Jewes was then a Church when the Apostles by their preaching gathered a Church out of it A Christian Church out of the Jewes Synagogue I say you but we gather Christian Churches out of Christian Churches Surely then it is Gods word that calleth Christians to come into a more reformed Church-way out of wayes more corrupt and lesse reformed Nor doe wee separate from the Churches as Christian as you call them but from their corruptions separating the precious from the vile as from something Antichristian But you will say Now are the Parishes and Churches purged no Service-book now no Hierarchy no such thing and yet wee select and choose the most principall into a Church-fellowship peculiar unto our selves To which I answer Though the Service-book Hierarchy c. be taken away yet the Parishes are not so purged of them but that most mens hearts are still hankering after that Egyptian-service and Task-masters Again all those that professe to be come off from those things yet are not resolved what Religion to take to but are ready to take up as themselves say and do what Religion men will set up over them not looking to what the Scripture prescribes and commands so as it remains that those who embrace the Word and preferre Christs Decrees before mans are those principall men whom not we but the Word of Christ doth call forth select and choose voluntarily to joyn in Church-fellowship and this not so peculiar to our selves but that when a right Reformation is set up in the severall places where they dwell they may enjoy the pure Ordinances there as I have shewed in my Vindication And if you examine who they be that have joyned themselves unto the Lord either of this parish or of other you shall find them to be for their outward estate in comparison of others none of those principall men you speak of But say you wee admit of none into our society but such as shall enter in by a private Covenant Now the very name of Covenant is become a bug-bear to many But it is mightily mistaken as I have shewed in my Vindication For it is nothing else but a declaration of a free assent and voluntary agreement to walk in the wayes of Christ with the Church whereof they are members and to perform all service of love one to another submitting themselves to the Order and Ordinance of Christ in that Church respectively So that it is not the name of Covenant that is so terrible but the Order of Church-communion and this to those only that having used to walk without a yoak as the Scripture calls sons of Belial love not to come under the yoak of Christ then which to a willing bearer nothing is more easie and sweet But lastly you say they must be allowed of by the consent and approbation of all the Congregation And I pray what harm in that Nay doth it not stand with very good reason that they who are to walk together should first be agreed together As Amos 3. 3. Can two walk together except they be agreed If therefore any one of the Congregation can object any thing as a just cause of non-admittance of a member he ought to shew it not only for his own peace but the peace of the Church Therefore to object such things as these doth it argue a spirit favouring of such a holy humility as becomes those who affect the society of Saints And when the whole church gives approbation in this kind it is both to the church and the member admitted a comfort and withall a discharge of their duty in a provident care for preventing inconveniences and scandals seeing it is easier for a guest to be kept out then to be cast out Thus much of your Question in generall which because I have met with it in the severall branches I shall need to say the lesse to those Queries which you derive from it And in truth they are rather captions then Queries and the first is answered in my former stating of the Question For the second to know those well that are to be admitted Abundans caâ—tela non nocet In things weighty we cannot be too wary nor do we so much look at circumstances in conversion as the substance The third for the consent of the Congregation it is answered before So also the fourth about the Covenant The fifth for the power of the keys wee tie it not to womens girdles The sixth and last I answer that those Churches which are for matter and form true Churches and are governed according to Christs Word do set up Christ as King upon his Throne And for such as are otherwise let them consider whether they do as they ought set up Christ as King upon his Throne You proceed I have say you specified the things without any spirit of bitternesse In deed this your first book as we finde by tracing your steps
in other Tracts is a summary collection of what they have gone before you in whose thread hath led you all the way through this maze but when you come as in your Postscript to minister your own Dosis and to show your self in your own element there wee finde the main ingredient to be the very gall of bitternesse which yet your first book is not altogether free of Pag. 101. you say The Apostles and other Ministers of the Gospell were to receive all such as believed and were baptized and that upon the profession of their faith and repentance without any further testimony of others unlesse they had been formerly known to be open enemies and then they were justly to be suspected till they had given publique evidence by witnesse to the Apostles and Ministers of their true conversion as concerning Paul Acts 9. 26 27. Now here I observe 1. A notable contradiction to what you say pag. 115. As Gods command to all Ministers was that they should admit all such into the Church as believed and were baptized upon their desiring it without any confession either private or publique Here I leave you to reconcile your own contradiction Vpon their profession and without any confession 2. I answer that in these dayes of professed and covenanted-for Reformation there is required the profession or confession of one speciall point of faith which in words none dare but in practice most do deny touching Christs Kingly office formerly suppressed by Antichristian tyrannie but now breaking forth from under the cloud in its native light concerning his absolute sole soveraignty over our consciences and Churches without dependence upon humane Ordinances or Nationall Lawes to prescribe such forms of Church-government as are most serviceable to the politicall â—ndâ— of severall States which point of faith is though not alwayes explicitly yet implicitly confessed by all those which â—ender themselves to be admitted into such Churches as are of a constitution most agreeable to the law and rule of Christ And withall an implicit profession at least of their repentance is included as having formerly lived under an Antichristian government and inventions of will-worship all which is implicitly professed and repented of by their very entrance into Church-fellowship and so much the more is repentance herein needfull because many yea most of such Conformists if not all have had their hands lesse or more either by acting or assenting or by silence and connivence in the persecution of those godly Ministers and people which stood out against that Antichristian usurpation over their consciences refusing conformity to their Canons So as in this case you confesse that our people formerly Conformists and now for the greater part but newly crope out of the shell of their bondage being brought off from their old ceremoniall service and this more by humane authority in generall so ordering then of conscience ought not only to approve themselves by the profession of their faith and repentance but to have the testimony of others also as having been formerly known to be either prest and sworn vassals or voluntiers in the Prelaticall Militia which what is it else but a continuall war against the true Church and Kingdome of Jesus Christ But you adde pag. 102. that Commission was delivered to the Apostles and Ministers of the Gospel as whose place only it was by the Keyes to open and shut the doors of the Church and so to admit or refuse as they found men fitted or qualified to be made members and this you labour to prove by the practice of John Baptist Now as for John Baptist about whose gathering you have so bestirred your selfbefore and to as little purpose you may observe that those believers in Christ then to come according to the Papists Doctrine were not formed into a Christian Church or Churches as after Christs resurrection the believers were And when you come to visit those Christian Churches once constituted in their Gospel-form by the Apostles you shall finde that the power of admitting or rejecting or casting out of members was not in the Apostles or Ministers alone but in the Churches For this read 1 Cor. 5. where the whole Church of the Saints in Corinth to whom Paul wrote were to cast out the incestuous person as also afterward upon his repentance to re-admit him 2 Cor. 2. 6 7. This one instance is a sufficient president for all Churches But you alledge that of Cornelius sending to Joppa for Peter he sent not say you to the Church of Corinth true and what then Ergo none but the Minister of the Gospel hath power to admit members It is one thing to preach and instrumentally to convert souls which chiefly pertains to those that are called thereunto but in the case of Church-government of admitting or casting out it is otherwise And here let Peter himself whose words you alledge resolve us Who when the Holy Ghost so wonderfully fell on all them that heard the Word said Can any man forbid water that these men should not be baptized c. Which words imply that ifany exceptions could have ben made it was in those Jewes present to give forth their allegations why those believing Gentiles should not be admitted to become one Church with the believing Jewes So as your observations thereupon fall to the ground as that First Peter was sent to and not the Church and secondly Peter commanded them to be baptized Again this example was extraordinary in all the circumstances of it and when you have said all you can conclude nothing Your instance of the Eunuch Acts 8. 8. of Lydia Acts 16. as many other are meer extravagants We speak of Churches constituted not of single converts here and there one not yet joynted into a particular Church-body I passe by your impertinent declamatious against different opinions in the same house Do you reconcile them for Christ himself foretold of them as wee shall tell you when wee come to your Postscript which when I mention here doth not your minde misgive you But of this in due place And where you say all that believe and are baptized are by Gods command to be admitted desiring it without any confession or Covenant But what if they do not believe aright What if they not only not believe but deny and disclaime Christs Kingly Prerogative And so what if they stiffly maintain a most damnable and destructive herefie which overthroweth a main principall and fundamentall of faith If such a one as Dr. Bastwick with all his â—air flourishes of holinesse should desire to be admitted into Church-fellowship being known to be an adversary to Christs Kingly government over his Churches according to the Gospel might not the Doctors own words satisfie in case of refusall pag 102. as having been formerly known for an open enemy and persecutor of the Church and so justly to be suspected till publique evidence by witnesse given Although it cannot be imagined that the baâ—e desiring
of admittance into Church-fellowship could stand with the deniall but necessarily implies a confession of Christs Kingly office in its highest degree Pag. 116. You tell us that our gathering of Churches hath no example in Scripture and as for Christs Disciples they were all sent to gather in the lost sheep of the house of Israel they went not to gather in converted amongst converted men c. Now wee cannot have a more pregnant and more warrantable example in all Scripture then this which you here alledge against us Christs Disciples gathered Christian Churches out of the Church of the Jews nor can you deny but the Jews were a Church when the Disciples gathered churches out of it Those Churches in Judea Gal. 1. 22. were gathered out of the Church of the Jewes and that Church of the Jewes generally believed that the Messias or Christ was to come And if they were a Church when many being converted were gathered out of it then much more Churches may be gathered out of Nations or Kingdomes of the world though for their generall profession of Christianity every such Nation or Kingdome be respectively called a church though the new Testament knowes no such church and then not of divine constitution as that of the Jews was even when churches Christian were gathered out of it And brother prove unto us that such as you call a Nationall Church is a church of divine institution shew us an example of a Nationall Church in all the new Testament otherwise you do but weave the Spiders web But wee say you gather converted men from among converted men and so pick out of others folds and flocks the best and fattest sheep This you do familiarly cast in our dish and yet it is never the fatter Now in this wee may justly demand of you to prove that those whom you call converted men from among whom wee gather churches be indeed so converted as they should be when as yet they come not up close to the rule of Reformation Gods Word as thereby to endeavour the setting up of Christ without waiting on men as without whom Gods Word is not a sufficient rule and as on whom wee must necessarily depend for the form and law of Reformation And yet wee deny not but many such may be godly though otherwise they are not as yet throughly convinced of this kingly government of Christ which we endeavour after nay let me go a little higher for as much as this is an undeniable yea and prime principle in Divinity that the Scripture is the only rule of faith and of worship and Church-government and this rule is no Monopoly to one man but that all and every man hath a power and priviledge to repair to this Law and Testimony to do all things according to this Word And seeing wee have all bound our selves by solemn Covenant to reform our selves and those under our charge according to the Word of God yea and every one to go before other in this Reformation tell mee now brother were it not a matter worth the while for our reverend and learned Assembly seriously to take it into debate whether the generall tying up of men to wait necessarily on the Synod for its finall resolution about Church-government be not an usurpation upon our Christian liberty and a diminution at least of the authority and sufficiency of Scripture and so consequently be not a trenching upon a fundamentall heresie as also an inhibition restraining every man in his place Ministers Masters c. from setting upon the work of Reformation and so necessitating a violation of our Covenant or a dangerous retarding of the work bringing in a sleepy carelesnesse upon mens spirits to inquire at Gods Oracle and so preparing a way for blind obedience I leave to the consideration of the wisest But in the interim to return to your Converts Do you hold all them to be converts from among whom churches are gathered Do you not allow of a difference to be put Are there not a number of both ignorant and scandalous that are not fit to come to the Lords Table See the Directory Or do you take the greatest number in England to be godly and truly converted Or are there not trow you many Parishes in England where perhaps but a few true converts are to be found And how few in comparison truly godly and faithfull Ministers are to be found for every Parish under whoâ—e Pastorall charge two or three sheep may safely and comfortably feed among so many Goats yea perhaps Wolves Or do you make every parish to be a Church You may do well herein to deal plainly with us whether you would have so many inhabitants as are in every Parish to be so many communicants For so it seems you would have it For pag. 117. you say in the Churches of Corinth Galatia Colosse were many that walked disorderly taught false doctrine and heresies and made Schismes yet the Apostles did not bid the Christians to separate themselves from the communion and assemblies of the Saints and from the Ordinances for these mens causes c. But you may know those churches though in part accidentally corrupt yet were essentially and in their originall constitution pure and holy churches and so were never your Parochiall churches they never had a right divine constitution but meerly humane and politicall And therefore all your argumentation a dispari falls to ground and beats it self into a meer spume But pag. 118. you plead such Ministers and Churches to be true where the truth of Christ is preached received and professed If you mean the whole truth of Christ it is well But do not you know that there are three speciall visible marks of a true visible Church The Gospel purely preached the Sacraments duly administred and Discipline rightly practised all which marks together the Church of England for ought I know is yet to seek For to speak nothing here of the materialls of a true particular visible Church as visible Saints nor of the form of it so many members united into one Church-body and fellowship according to the Gospel which you can handly shew us in any of your Parochiall Congregations I will only ask you What particular visible Church you are a member of you may choose what Parish you please in England Next I ask you What Discipline you have in that your church and whether a man complaining of you to your Congregation or to your Minister for wrongs done by you and for your scandalous walking he shall find so much Discipline there as to convent you before them and justly charging you for walking scandalously to the great offence and shame of the very name of Christian Religion you shall thereupon be brought under Ecclesiasticall censure so as to have the scandall removed and the offence satisfied Good now tell me what church either Parochiall or Classicall I should go unto For suppose I have a complaint against you for which I demand
satisfaction at the least so as by the means of your church-censure you may be brought to a contrite acknowledgement of the wrong you have done mee But if you cannot shew me such a church in any of your Parishes bâ—… is it that you affirm Christ to be set up as King in his Throne in mens hearts swayed and guided by the Scepter of his Word and Spirit in your Parochiall Congregations when as you cannot shew us I say in any one of those Congregations * the Name and Power of our Lord Jesus Christ to be so set up as authoritatively and judicially to deliver over to Satan {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} or otherwise condignly to censure such a one as whose brother complains of to that Congregation for unsufferable wrongs and most base and barbarous usage unbeseeming a naturall Heathen much lesse a professed Christian And here I challenge our Brother for taking Christs Name in vain when in stead of finding Christ set upon his Throne in their congregations wee finde there no more but an Image such as Michal had made up in stead of King David or as those that in mockery made of Christ a Pageant-king stripping him and putting on him a scarlet robe and on his head a crown of thornes and in his hand a reed saluting him with Hail king of the Jewes with which title over his head they crucified him And therefore those passages which page 118 119. he quotes of his Brother though not named will stand good against their opposers The summe of which is this That all that depend upon men for Church-government and not upon Christ and his Word alone doe deny Christs Kingly government over Consciences and Churches that all that receive not Christs Kingly office in the full extent of it but after manifestation doe reject it are at the best converted but in part and so in a worse condition then those who though they believed yet they had not so much as heard there was a Holy Ghost but hearing they received him that such as refuse to be in Covenant with Christ or to make profession or confession thereof before men want their evidence of their being Gods people and so quantum in se as much as in them lyeth cut off their children from having interest in Baptisme the externall seale of the Covenant And therefore seeing such things are objected how doth it concerne both Ministers and people to looke to their evidences To omit his tedious tautologies all along being the bombast of the booke to pag. 124. there he saith When the Ministers of England teach this doctrine in their preachings and writings how can they be truly said to deny disclaime and preach against Christs Kingly government over mens consciences and Churches It were well if they did truly indeed preach it which few or none of them doe Or if they doe truly preach it why doe they not practise it and perswade the people to depend upon Christ for it and not upon men But pag. 126. the Ministers of England set up a Presbytery after Gods Word This you can never yet prove unto us untill wee may see it But the Independents themselves are Presbyterians say you and labour â—o set up a Presbytery of their own Thus here and all along you carry it with a torrent of words and that is all Wee set up that Presbytery which wee finde in Gods Word and none other Then pag. 127. you fall againe upon the strictnesse used in admission of members which say you the Apostles used not But wee know that all those who were admitted by them did first make confession of their faith and repentance as Mat. 3. 6. Acts. 2. 37. Act. 19 18 19. Act. 8. 37. And the Apostles feared to receivâ—Paul as their fellow-Apostle untill they had examined the truth thereof And pag. 130. you charge us with making schismes c. Surely we are commanded to separate our selves from all corruptions of the world and humane inventions as 2 Cor. 6. 16. Acts 2. 40. and this when a Christian Church began to be gathered out of that of the Jewes Pag. 138. you inveigh against new truths and new lights as you every where nauseously call them and say Where was it ever heard of either in the Christian or Pagan world that it was ever permitted to any Minister or Preacher to have all the Pulpits in any Nation to preach a diverse doctrine to that whiâ—h is set up by Authoritie and such as tends to make a faction and division amongst the people I doe most assuredly beleeve that there cannot the like precedent be produced So you No What say you of that precedent of the Apostles who in the Temple daily preached a diversed doctrine to that of the Pharisees So of John Baptist So of Christ And this in Judea which was a Parallel at least to a Nationall Christian Church onely that was originally founded upon divine institution but this not so And for the Pagan World what innumerable precedents are there of preaching the Gospel and constituting of Churches even throughout the Pagan world And all this divers to that which was set up by mans Authoritie whether Jewish or Paganish And as our Brother here so did the High Priests in their Counsells charge the Apostles saying * Yee have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine A new Doctrine a new Truth a new Light So Act. 24. 5. Tertullus with his Rhetoricke being feed by the High Priest and the Elders makes a declamation against Paul saying Wee have found this mâ—mâ—… pestilent fellow and a mover of sedition among all the Jewes throughout the world and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarens And this word Nazarens signifies the sect of Saparatists of whom the Apostle is there maliciously marked as the {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} the ring-leader The like out-cry we have Act. 21. 28. Men of Israel helpe This is the man that teacheth all men every where against the people and the Law and this place c. Nor want wee a Pagan precedent Act. 19. 26 where Diana's silver-shrine-maker what a dust he raiseth in the whole Citie saying Yee see and heare that not alone at Ephesus but almost throughout all Asia this Paul hath perswaded and turned away much people saying that they be no Gods which be made with hands Thus you see Paul and the other Apostles and Evangelists found Pulpits every where both among the Jewes and Gentiles though they preached a divers doctrine to that set up by Authoritie And must Christ have no other doctrine or Church-government in the world then that which is set up by the worlds authoritie Surely this is a new light indeed if a light at all a new doctrine diverse to that which Christ hath set up by his divine authoritie But this doctrine say you tends to make a faction and division among the people And did Pauls and the Apostles doctrine escape the scourge of this whip
in your scoffing scurrilous malicious bitter biting yea bloody language in which faculty as facile princeps you do so tripudiate and glory But in your last Book which you style but how justly A just Defence c. you would seem to teach us another rule to walk by which it seems you had not then learned when you writ your Postscript We ought not say you per latus unius totam gentem perstringere you tel the Liev. Colonel that he should not have condemned the whole Councel for a few but should have singled them out and by name have aspersed them And why did not you then rather call me by my name as your brother Burton as our brother Prynne hath done then to hale me out by my great white basket-hilted beard as some hideous Monster or ridiculous spectacle to the world And whereas ibid. you adde that you have written nothing in your books against the Independents wherein you can be convinced of a lie For say you I write nothing in my books against the Independents but what upon my own knowledge I can affirm to be true yea depose it too Now to go no further then this one instance of your dealing with mee aliâs your brother in fathering upon mee such a damnable and diabolicall glosse being the spurious brat of your own brain What say you Do you know it of your own knowledge to be so that because I set that Scripture in the front of my book therefore my meaning was hereby to perswade the people and make them believe that they have good warrant and ground to fight against their Christian brethren for the maintenance of their own Whimsies They be your own words and you may take the whimsies in to boot Now did I ever so perswade the people or make them believe so Nay I will put it to your own conscience as hoping you have so much left whether in your conscience you can so much as once imagine that your brother could ever have the least thought that way or the least word tending thereunto wherein I challenge that {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} the accuser of the brethren himself whose Scholar I wish not you to be As for that other passage of your said book pag. 39. to let passe many other as touching your Independent-Pastor it is as false as slie do you and your reverend brother try it when you will An Appendix WHerein is touched the main point of difference between the two Parties Classicall or Nationall and Congregationall Our brother Mr. William Pryn whose latter books Truth triumphing c. and A fresh Discovery c. I have meerly God is my record out of tendernesse to the present state of things forborn to answer hath sundry times in those books objected principally those words in my Vindication concerning Christs kingly office over the Churches and consciences of his people as in Truth triumphing pag. 112 113. and in his Fresh Discovery pag. 4. in these words Mr. Henry Burton in his Vindication of Churches commonly called Independent c. The Church is a spirituall kingdome whose only King is Christ and not man it is a spirituall Republique whose only Law-giver is Christ and not man A spirituall house whose only builder and governour is Christ A spirituall Corporation whose only head is Christ and not man No man or power on earth hath a kingly power over this kingdome no earthly Law-giver may give lawes for the government of this Republique no man can or ought to undertake the government of this communion of Saints no humane Power or Law may intermeddle to prescribe rules for the government or form of this spirituall House NOT COVNCELS NOT SENATES This is Christs royall Prerogative which is uncommunicable to ANY TO ALL THE POWERS ON EARTH He addes my words pag. 60 61. Wee challenge you to shew us any Parliament Councel Synod ever since the Apostles that could or can say thus It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and us so to determine controversies of Religion to make and impose Canons to bind all men c. shew this to us at this time and wee will obey But if you cannot as you never can never let any man presse upon us that Scripture that Synod Acts 15. which hath no parallel in the whole world and so is no precedent or pattern for any Councels Synods Parliaments Thus our brother sees down the words here and there with capitalls as if so many capitall crimes But the worst of all is that he ranks them under the head of his first Section containing divers seditious scandalous libellous passages against the Authority and Jurisdiction of Parliaments Synods and temporall Magistrates in generall in Ecclesiasticall affaires in the late writings of severall Independent New-lights and Firebrands so runs the Title of the Section under which hee marshals those my words as if Christ could not be sole King Lord and Law-giver over his own spirituall Kingdome in the soules and assemblies of his Saints but this doctrine must needs be seditious scandalous and the writers thereof libellous against civill authority yea firebrands and what not How more equall was the Heathen Emperor Domitian though the Author of the second Persecution who though he laboured utterly to extirpate and extinguish all the naturall kindred of Christ because hee heard that Christ was a King fearing thereby the overthrow of his Empire yet understanding afterward by two of Christs neerest kinsmen brought before him being but poor men and who got their living by hard labour in husbandrie how that Christ was a King indeed but his Kingdome was not of this world but heavenly the Emperor hereupon as the Story saith {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} ceased the Persecution against the Church by calling in his Imperiall Decree I wish our brother would more seriously consider not only of this famous example of an Heathen Emperour but also upon what sound reason it is grounded as namely upon such a distinct specificall difference between these two Kingdomes the celestiall and the terrestriall as that in no sort they may be confounded or compounded into one terrene kingdome unlesse you will set up a Papall power an Harmophrodite-government with Ecce duo gladii hîc Behold here two swords which the Pope caused to be carryed before him in solemn procession the two first dayes of his new erected Jubilee And for my challenge alledged by him it stands good still till hee can prove those words in the end of his Truth triumphing true where your words are we cannot but in Christian charity expect and believe that all the Assembly and Parliament resolve on may have inscribed on its front IT SEEMED GOOD TO THE HOLY GHOST AND VS And then again you must prove your reason good whereupon you inferre this conclusion namely because there be in the Parliament and Assembly at least some true Nathaniels and Stephens filled with the Holy Ghost