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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A45152 A plea for the non-conformists tending to justifie them against the clamorous charge of schisme. By a Dr. of Divinity. With two sheets on the same subject by another Hand and Judgement. Humfrey, John, 1621-1719. 1674 (1674) Wing H3703A; ESTC R217013 46,853 129

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and_o therefore_o can_v be_v charge_v with_o a_o sinful_a separation_n but_o say_v our_o author_n you_o make_v a_o sinful_a separation_n in_o it_o we_o be_v not_o trouble_v at_o word_n that_o signify_v nothing_o what_o be_v the_o meaning_n of_o this_o do_v we_o not_o own_o christ_n his_o gospel_n the_o same_o point_n of_o faith_n the_o same_o act_n of_o worship_n where_o be_v the_o separation_n then_o can_v all_o meet_v in_o the_o same_o place_n it_o may_v be_v we_o do_v not_o pray_v by_o the_o same_o form_n nor_o wear_v the_o same_o habit_n nor_o use_v some_o of_o those_o rite_n some_o other_o of_o our_o brethren_n use_v do_v our_o brethren_n then_o always_o when_o they_o pray_v use_v the_o same_o form_n of_o word_n do_v not_o they_o take_v a_o liberty_n in_o the_o pulpit_n why_o may_v not_o we_o do_v other_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n use_v the_o same_o form_n why_o else_o be_v not_o they_o schismatic_n for_o as_o yet_o we_o be_v only_o consider_v the_o national_a church_n of_o england_n as_o a_o part_n of_o the_o church_n catholic_n visible_a be_v there_o any_o form_n any_o habit_n any_o rite_n or_o ceremony_n command_v by_o christ_n and_o omit_v by_o we_o if_o there_o be_v not_o where_o be_v the_o schism_n it_o seem_v the_o term_n schismatic_a be_v their_o privilege_n to_o use_v that_o can_v first_o get_v it_o out_o of_o their_o mouth_n if_o we_o divide_v in_o no_o command_n of_o christ_n why_o may_v not_o the_o non-con_n call_v their_o brethren_n schismatic_n as_o well_o as_o they_o call_v their_o brethren_n do_v a_o humane_a law_n create_v a_o difference_n let_v it_o be_v query_v whether_o that_o can_v give_v a_o rule_n to_o schism_n or_o no._n what_o be_v the_o business_n then_o how_o do_v we_o then_o make_v a_o schism_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n consider_v as_o a_o part_n of_o the_o
to_o worship_n god_n at_o westminster_n in_o the_o same_o act_n of_o worship_n be_v a_o schism_n from_o that_o part_n of_o this_o church_n which_o meet_v for_o that_o end_n in_o london_n §_o 42._o nor_o be_v he_o help_v at_o all_o by_o say_v our_o church_n be_v not_o of_o the_o same_o constitution_n 55._o doctrine_n of_o schism_n 55._o which_o he_o say_v be_v mr._n cawdry_n answer_v to_o dr._n owen_n let_v mr._n cawdry_n or_o who_o will_v say_v so_o dolus_fw-la versatur_fw-la in_o generatibus_fw-la what_o be_v the_o difference_n do_v christ_n constitute_v they_o we_o trust_v he_o have_v constitute_v we_o that_o be_v by_o the_o rule_v give_v in_o his_o word_n be_v they_o constitute_v by_o parliament_n that_o will_v be_v hard_a to_o prove_v as_o to_o the_o first_o constitution_n parish_n in_o england_n be_v first_o make_v by_o a_o popish_a archbishop_n the_o parliament_n afterward_o or_o custom_n rather_o may_v confirm_v they_o do_v it_o then_o make_v a_o schismatic_a to_o depart_v to_o a_o church_n not_o establish_v by_o humane_a law_n or_o custom_n how_o else_o be_v we_o of_o another_o constitution_n be_v not_o the_o same_o doctrine_n preach_v the_o same_o sacrament_n administer_v the_o same_o act_n of_o worship_n perform_v where_o be_v the_o difference_n in_o the_o modes_n rite_n and_o ceremony_n only_o and_o these_o all_o of_o humane_a institution_n this_o be_v that_o which_o the_o church_n of_o god_n never_o before_o call_v schism_n &_o which_o the_o apostle_n never_o think_v of_o do_v not_o we_o agree_v in_o the_o same_o government_n that_o concern_v we_o not_o yet_o while_o we_o be_v clear_v ourselves_o only_o from_o a_o church_n which_o the_o author_n must_v show_v we_o capable_a of_o any_o such_o government_n as_o christ_n have_v appoint_v intrinsical_a to_o his_o church_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n as_o to_o the_o national_a church_n of_o england_n we_o deny_v that_o we_o be_v guilty_a of_o any_o schism_n either_o in_o it_o or_o from_o it_o so_o that_o the_o whole_a charge_n must_v rest_v upon_o particular_a church_n and_o our_o pretend_v separation_n from_o they_o §_o 43._o this_o be_v that_o other_o church-state_n mention_v by_o mr._n caudry_n and_o quote_v by_o our_o author_n ch_n 9_o p._n 57_o these_o he_o call_v parochial_a congregation_n we_o be_v he_o say_v guilty_a of_o schism_n from_o they_o we_o all_o agree_v that_o these_o be_v capable_a of_o the_o name_n of_o church_n 1._o as_o they_o be_v lesser_a part_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o so_o capable_a of_o the_o name_n of_o the_o whole_a thus_o we_o be_v indeed_o unite_v to_o they_o as_o we_o be_v unite_v to_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o unite_v still_o to_o they_o as_o unto_o that_o own_v the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n his_o word_n and_o ordinance_n and_o profess_v a_o subjection_n to_o they_o but_o this_o be_v not_o the_o other_o state_n he_o speak_v of_o by_o which_o he_o can_v mean_v nothing_o but_o a_o govern_v state_n 2._o second_o therefore_o these_o parochial_a society_n may_v be_v consider_v as_o perfect_o or_o more_o imperfect_o organise_v furnish_v with_o all_o church-officer_n requisite_a and_o walk_v in_o gospel_n order_n or_o not_o so_o furnish_v or_o so_o walk_v the_o author_n tell_v his_o reader_n in_o a_o latter_a book_n call_v advice_n to_o the_o conformist_n and_o nonconformist_n that_o the_o sum_n of_o what_o the_o author_n of_o the_o short_a reflection_n offer_v lie_v in_o two_o thing_n the_o latter_a of_o which_o he_o deliver_v thus_o our_o parochial_a church_n be_v no_o true_a church_n 72._o advice_n to_o conformist_n etc._n etc._n p._n 72._o or_o at_o lest_o they_o be_v so_o faulty_a as_o they_o may_v be_v lawful_o separate_v from_o we_o have_v read_v over_o the_o book_n and_o good_a reader_n at_o thy_o leisure_n do_v but_o read_v over_o that_o pamplet_n the_o second_o chap_v particular_o the_o 13_o 14_o 15._o page_n and_o see_v whether_o this_o author_n have_v or_o no_o deal_v ingenious_o with_o he_o p._n 14._o he_o speak_v of_o these_o society_n as_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o say_v 14._o short_a reflection_n p._n 14._o in_o this_o notion_n we_o can_v deny_v that_o every_o parish_n yea_o family_n of_o christian_n be_v a_o true_a church_n but_o he_o indeed_o conclude_v that_o out_o of_o such_o particular_a church_n it_o must_v be_v lawful_a to_o gather_v a_o church_n for_o all_o particular_a church_n in_o the_o world_n be_v gather_v out_o of_o the_o catholic_n visible_a church_n even_o heathen_n when_o convert_v must_v be_v of_o the_o catholic_n visible_a church_n before_o they_o can_v form_v a_o particular_a church_n in_o this_o state_n and_o no_o other_o must_v all_o parochial_a society_n be_v that_o have_v no_o minister_n unless_o we_o will_v have_v organical_a govern_v church_n without_o any_o governor_n which_o we_o think_v be_v a_o contradiction_n p._n 15._o he_o take_v notice_n of_o another_o notion_n of_o they_o as_o ministerial_a by_o which_o he_o say_v he_o under_v and_n a_o competent_a number_n of_o christian_n who_o have_v either_o first_o choose_v or_o after_o submit_v to_o a._n b._n as_o their_o pastor_n he_o may_v indeed_o have_v spare_v this_o notion_n i_o do_v not_o remember_v i_o have_v meet_v with_o it_o in_o any_o author_n but_o mr._n rutherford_n and_o the_o truth_n be_v if_o it_o be_v a_o single_a minister_n i_o do_v not_o understand_v how_o he_o preach_v otherwise_o to_o they_o than_o as_o he_o be_v so_o far_o a_o officer_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o they_o a_o part_n of_o that_o vast_a body_n he_o consider_v these_o people_n either_o as_o live_v in_o the_o use_n of_o all_o gospel-ordinance_n or_o as_o at_o present_a live_n without_o some_o ordinance_n or_o have_v they_o so_o undue_o administer_v as_o may_v offer_v just_a cause_n of_o doubt_n to_o some_o christian_n whether_o they_o may_v lawful_o communicate_v with_o they_o or_o no_o he_o add_v we_o do_v believe_v that_o from_o such_o a_o church_n as_o be_v furnish_v with_o a_o due_o send_v able_a painful_a minister_n regular_o administer_a the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n so_o as_o people_n may_v communicate_v with_o they_o without_o sin_n and_o press_v forward_o to_o that_o perfection_n in_o order_n which_o in_o all_o thing_n they_o have_v not_o attain_v christian_n as_o before_o unite_v to_o they_o may_v not_o separate_v without_o sin_n he_o do_v not_o indeed_o say_v but_o i_o dare_v say_v for_o he_o he_o believe_v there_o be_v many_o such_o parochial_a society_n in_o england_n and_o he_o hint_n it_o when_o he_o say_v this_o be_v that_o indeed_o which_o some_o presbyterian_o reflect_v upon_o our_o brethren_n of_o the_o congregational_a persuasion_n and_o these_o be_v those_o parochial_a church_n which_o they_o contend_v for_o as_o true_a church_n be_v this_o to_o say_v parochial_a society_n be_v no_o true_a church_n reader_n judge_v in_o his_o 15._o page_n he_o tell_v we_o there_o be_v yet_o a_o more_o perfect_a notion_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n as_o perfect_o organical_a and_o furnish_v with_o all_o its_o affair_n and_o walk_v in_o all_o point_n of_o gospel_n order_n he_o add_v such_o particular_a church_n be_v in_o many_o parochial_a society_n in_o england_n and_o there_o be_v no_o doubt_n but_o such_o parochial_a church_n be_v true_a church_n from_o which_o causeless_a and_o unnecessary_a separation_n be_v sinful_a indeed_o he_o say_v how_o far_o other_o parochial_a church_n be_v true_a church_n avow_v so_o by_o presbyterian_o he_o be_v yet_o to_o learn_v and_o his_o answer_n be_v for_o any_o thing_n i_o see_v in_o his_o remark_n yet_o to_o teach_v he_o and_o i_o believe_v will_v so_o continue_v for_o his_o guess_n at_o what_o the_o author_n mean_v by_o perfection_n of_o order_n he_o i_o be_o sure_a will_v tell_v he_o he_o mean_v no_o more_o than_o a_o capacity_n to_o administer_v all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n proper_a to_o a_o particular_a church_n the_o word_n sacrament_n and_o censure_n of_o jundical_a admonition_n suspension_n and_o excommunication_n which_o they_o can_v do_v till_o they_o have_v officer_n i_o believe_v it_o must_v be_v a_o case_n of_o extraordinary_a necessity_n must_v justify_v a_o single_a minister_n in_o suspending_a or_o excommunicate_v but_o that_o those_o that_o help_v he_o must_v needs_o be_v person_n not_o ordain_v to_o the_o ministry_n i_o do_v not_o think_v he_o believe_v but_o that_o there_o may_v be_v more_o minister_n if_o the_o parochial_a society_n have_v more_o than_o one_o or_o other_o choose_v by_o that_o church_n and_o if_o any_o will_v contend_v that_o the_o body_n of_o the_o people_n must_v join_v with_o he_o in_o those_o act_n though_o he_o reserve_v his_o private_a judgement_n in_o the_o case_n yet_o he_o will_v not_o contend_v especial_o as_o to_o excommunication_n because_o he_o understand_v not_o to_o what_o purpose_n
endeavour_v to_o oblige_v i_o to_o none_o but_o himself_o i_o fear_v always_o they_o have_v no_o good_a meaning_n towards_o i_o and_o i_o shall_v fear_v myself_o that_o i_o mean_v not_o to_o deal_v well_o with_o soul_n if_o i_o go_v about_o to_o stake_v they_o to_o my_o ministry_n i_o shall_v suspect_v myself_o of_o pride_n or_o self-interest_n or_o some_o other_o scurvy_a lust_n or_o passion_n if_o i_o think_v none_o so_o able_a as_o myself_o it_o be_v pride_n if_o i_o will_v have_v they_o to_o fill_v my_o congregation_n it_o be_v self-interest_n if_o i_o will_v save_v their_o soul_n so_o may_v another_o and_o possible_o be_v a_o better_a instrument_n for_o it_o at_o least_o he_o be_v more_o likely_a if_o sound_n in_o the_o faith_n able_a and_o painful_a because_o they_o have_v a_o more_o fancy_n to_o he_o in_o short_a i_o have_v for_o some_o good_a time_n be_v a_o unworthy_a minister_n of_o the_o gosel_n i_o thank_v god_n i_o can_v say_v that_o as_o i_o never_o deny_v any_o christian_a desirous_a to_o leave_v i_o my_o licence_n to_o do_v it_o so_o i_o never_o have_v a_o ill_a thought_n of_o any_o that_o do_v it_o but_o say_v with_o myself_o the_o few_o soul_n i_o have_v will_v be_v under_o my_o charge_n the_o lesser_a my_o account_n will_v be_v and_o that_o which_o much_o confirm_v i_o in_o this_o be_v my_o read_v chrysostom_n express_v a_o fear_n that_o but_o a_o few_o minister_n will_v be_v save_v because_o their_o work_n and_o charge_n be_v so_o great_a which_o if_o well_o consider_v will_v abate_v our_o trouble_n for_o the_o diminution_n of_o our_o auditory_a and_o rather_o make_v we_o rejoice_v i_o have_v a_o number_n not_o inconsiderable_a under_o my_o charge_n now_o and_o i_o can_v say_v i_o dear_o love_v they_o and_o shall_v think_v i_o do_v not_o if_o i_o shall_v not_o declare_v my_o free_a leave_n for_o they_o to_o leave_v my_o ministry_n and_o join_v with_o any_o other_o of_o sound_a faith_n and_o holy_a life_n under_o who_o they_o shall_v think_v they_o can_v profit_v more_o than_o by_o i_o and_o i_o do_v think_v this_o the_o duty_n of_o every_o minister_n i_o do_v not_o think_v this_o be_v any_o sinful_a separation_n which_o schism_n do_v import_v §_o 59_o but_o last_o suppose_v such_o a_o depart_n from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o we_o be_v unite_v be_v to_o be_v call_v separation_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o sinful_a in_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o divine_n if_o it_o be_v necessary_a or_o if_o it_o be_v not_o causeless_a now_o possible_o this_o may_v be_v the_o case_n of_o many_o i_o remember_v in_o the_o case_n of_o marriage_n divine_v distinguish_v between_o repudiation_n and_o divorce_n divorce_n they_o say_v can_v only_o be_v for_o adultery_n but_o repudiation_n may_v be_v lawful_a and_o necessary_a in_o several_a other_o case_n in_o short_a in_o all_o case_n where_o it_o appear_v there_o ought_v to_o have_v be_v no_o union_n have_v it_o be_v know_v as_o suppose_v 1._o one_o have_v marry_v another_o through_o deceit_n of_o his_o or_o her_o own_o sex_n 2._o his_o very_a near_a relation_n as_o mother_n sister_n etc._n etc._n 3._o or_o three_o one_o appear_v evident_o unfit_a for_o the_o chief_a end_n of_o marriage_n etc._n etc._n i_o think_v the_o same_o be_v to_o be_v say_v in_o this_o case_n let_v we_o try_v a_o little_a suppose_v christian_n by_o a_o error_n have_v choose_v a_o man_n to_o be_v their_o pastor_n and_o ordinary_o hear_v he_o and_o communicate_v in_o the_o lord_n supper_n with_o he_o who_o at_o last_o they_o find_v to_o be_v no_o minister_n and_o when_o they_o discover_v it_o shall_v leave_v he_o this_o i_o hope_v be_v no_o sinful_a separation_n if_o any_o shall_v say_v it_o be_v he_o shall_v complain_v and_o have_v he_o orderly_o remove_v we_o will_v suppose_v the_o case_n so_o that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v obtain_v of_o this_o the_o late_a time_n give_v we_o some_o instance_n 2._o second_o suppose_v christian_n by_o a_o error_n and_o through_o ignorance_n have_v do_v the_o like_a to_o one_o who_o after_o they_o discover_v to_o be_v corrupt_a in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n suppose_v some_o point_n of_o popery_n arminianism_n socinianism_n which_o they_o in_o their_o conscience_n judge_v false_a and_o make_v a_o trade_n of_o this_o be_v it_o a_o sin_n for_o they_o to_o go_v to_o another_o minister_n not_o be_v able_a to_o get_v this_o remove_v it_o be_v plain_a they_o ought_v not_o to_o have_v choose_v he_o as_o their_o pastor_n 3._o suppose_v christian_n by_o a_o error_n have_v so_o choose_v and_o join_v with_o one_o who_o they_o then_o judge_v of_o a_o very_a sober_a life_n but_o they_o find_v he_o a_o notorious_a drunkard_n swearer_n etc._n etc._n such_o a_o one_o ought_v not_o to_o have_v be_v choose_v but_o do_v factum_fw-la valet_fw-la here_o must_v they_o not_o leave_v he_o if_o any_o say_v they_o may_v have_v he_o remove_v i_o desire_v to_o know_v by_o what_o law_n of_o england_n if_o he_o be_v neither_o jew_n nor_o schismatic_a i_o be_o mistake_v if_o i_o have_v not_o read_v or_o hear_v the_o law_n allow_v no_o other_o case_n or_o very_o few_o of_o deprivation_n 4._o suppose_v christian_n by_o the_o like_a error_n to_o have_v choose_v one_o who_o they_o think_v will_v have_v be_v faithful_a watch_v his_o flock_n and_o to_o that_o end_n cohabit_v with_o they_o the_o thing_n of_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n say_v our_o author_n and_o that_o be_v divine_a for_o member_n of_o the_o same_o church_n but_o they_o find_v he_o rare_o come_v near_o they_o or_o rare_o preach_v to_o they_o if_o among_o they_o possible_o once_o a_o month_n hardly_o more_o seldom_o or_o never_o administer_a other_o ordinance_n in_o this_o case_n may_v christian_n depart_v to_o another_o yea_o or_o no_o will_v any_o say_v no_o still_o then_o he_o be_v bind_v to_o live_v without_o god_n ordinance_n all_o his_o life_n time_n for_o aught_o i_o know_v §_o 60._o but_o last_o must_v it_o appear_v demonstrative_o or_o be_v it_o enough_o for_o it_o to_o appear_v to_o the_o christian_a probable_o that_o be_v so_o far_o as_o his_o conscience_n can_v discern_v or_o judge_v sinful_a to_o communicate_v with_o a_o church_n before_o he_o separate_v from_o it_o if_o any_o say_v demonstrative_o let_v he_o prove_v it_o will_v any_o say_v it_o be_v enough_o as_o to_o his_o practice_n if_o it_o propable_o appear_v so_o then_o why_o be_v we_o so_o bold_o call_v schismatic_n before_o our_o probable_a argument_n be_v make_v appear_v to_o we_o to_o have_v no_o probability_n to_o but_o they_o be_v the_o people_n and_o have_v say_v wisdom_n shall_v die_v with_o they_o we_o must_v be_v schismatic_n and_o sinful_a separatist_n and_o for_o no_o other_o reason_n but_o because_o they_o say_v so_o §_o 61._o once_o more_o if_o it_o be_v schismatical_a for_o the_o member_n of_o a_o church_n to_o separate_v from_o the_o minister_n and_o congregation_n to_o which_o they_o be_v unite_v then_o it_o be_v schismatical_a for_o minister_n also_o to_o separate_v from_o the_o congregation_n to_o which_o they_o be_v once_o so_o unite_v unless_o at_o least_o command_v by_o the_o governor_n of_o the_o church_n for_o the_o public_a good_a if_o any_o say_v no_o he_o will_v i_o hope_v give_v we_o a_o reason_n be_v not_o the_o minister_n united_n do_v not_o he_o break_v the_o union_n yea_o destroy_v the_o organical_a church_n by_o remove_v which_o private_a christian_n do_v not_o i_o be_o afraid_a the_o author_n will_v rather_o quit_v we_o from_o schism_n from_o parochial_a society_n than_o grant_v we_o the_o consequence_n to_o the_o prejudice_n of_o if_o not_o himself_o yet_o of_o so_o many_o of_o his_o friend_n one_o of_o they_o he_o must_v do_v if_o i_o understand_v sense_n will_v our_o author_n think_v to_o excuse_v this_o by_o say_v it_o be_v no_o schism_n in_o they_o because_o they_o but_o remove_v to_o church_n of_o the_o same_o communion_n which_o he_o say_v before_o for_o people_n remove_v from_o one_o parish_n to_o another_o it_o lie_v upon_o he_o to_o prove_v that_o person_n agree_v in_o the_o same_o doctrine_n and_o in_o the_o same_o act_n of_o worship_n though_o they_o differ_v in_o the_o word_n and_o syllable_n and_o form_n of_o mere_a humane_a constitution_n be_v of_o a_o different_a communion_n from_o their_o brethren_n otherwise_o the_o presbyterian_o do_v not_o separate_v and_o be_v but_o sister-churche_n of_o the_o same_o communion_n with_o their_o brethren_n not_o separate_v from_o they_o §_o 62._o the_o author_n of_o the_o reflection_n have_v tell_v the_o author_n that_o themselves_o with_o we_o have_v separate_v from_o rome_n which_o yet_o they_o or_o some_o of_o they_o acknowledge_v a_o true_a church_n therefore_o we_o may_v separate_v from_o a_o true_a church_n the_o sum_n of_o