faction crie out that the true church is without spot or wrinkle or grosse pollution take libertie to slaunder those that are in authoritie so to free themselues from all submission affirme that the Sacraments are no Sacraments Whervpon though the renuer of this schisme Browne I meane did not in plaine wordes require a baptising againe yet their succossors in their established Church attempted it haue taught that they being the Lordes free people the magistrate is not to deale in causes ecclesiasticall holde that men are not to be compelled to good duties binde one another with a vow to persist in this faction boast of suffrings c. yet detest the name of Donatisme though Donatus was the first deuiser of Brownisme though Brown was the only restorer of these fansies The forerunners it should seeme were grosse when their Disciples are ashamed to be accounted their schollers yet if anie grossenesse as yet vnnamed either in matters of faith or manner of dealing be found in them it will appeare in these also for it is no new fansie but an ancient heresie neither is there hope that they will be restrained but by an olde remedie For as the Donanists when councels were called conference was had and they were conuicted yet gaue it out with great glorie that they had put to silence all the learned and remained wilfull vntill that by the sharp laws of Honorius they were restrained yea and many of them by that meanes were brought againe to the Church so with our men all gentle meanes haue bene vsed in conference hard speeches haue onelie helped them yet remaine they obstinate and brag of victorie if the lawes of our christian Honorius doe them no good they are incurable No doubt the Phisition is irke some to a frantique person and a father to an vnrulie child the one in binding the other in striking and both in louing The dutie of a phisition and the nature of a father must appeare in the magistrate not in satisfieng the desires of the froward to cōtent them but in restraining their phrensie to profite them It may bee to the discontentment of some that anie punishment should be inflicted vpon them for their disordered stubburnnes I would not be mistaken I wish it not howsoeuer m. Greenwood affirmeth that the magistrate ought to compell vnto the hearing of the word Only this I saie that the lesse these matters are cōsidered of the better may the men be conceiued of but view their writings examine their doctrine and marke their dealings and they will appeare the open enemies of Gods truth for in pretending to establish a church they ouerthrowe the church and vnder the colour of setting vp the discipline of Christ they seeke to plague themselues and others with their owne dreams which in this their treatise of discipline and in their two other treatises of certaine conferences lately by them published shall bee made manifest to the indifferent reader In answering of them al onelie the calumniations in the conferences excepted which concerne some particular persons whose cause I leaue to themselues who best know how farre they are abused and in regorde thereof can best answere the same I haue followed the authors method leauing the man and seeing into the matter not regarding who wrote it but what is the doctrine that is maintained by him As for the treatise of the visible Church it will appeare not tollerable inasmuch as it is impious abusing the Scripture iniurious to the Church in describing a false gouernment and daungerous to the simple who are readie to bee deceiued with euerie blast of vaine doctrine The other discourses are not onely like vnto it but haue in them many bitter speeches vngodlie slanders both of Church Magistracie Ministerie and all wherby it seemeth that the author hath not learned to rule his pen. In this mine attempt I haue small hope to satisfie those that are wedded to their will when Gaudentius was answered sufficientlie to his follies hee would notwithstanding returne his aunswere though he did the same nulla ratione respondens sed magis se nec respondere nec tacere potuisse declarans If our author wil replie let him labour to be vnlike to Gaudentius and his companie who with words and bitter speeches sought to vphold their cause if he vse the Scriptures let him applie them faithfully and then if he preuaile the controuersie will be at end In the meane while if these poore labours of mine might satisfie these discontented persons or failing hereof might staie the ignorant from beeing seduced or else might prouoke them that are better able to deale more substantially in these matters I shal be glad Finally I am to intreate the reader both to accept in good part that which in desire of his good is deliuered And also before hee beginne to reade this treatise to amend such faultes as by default in the printing were committed R. A. Faultes escaped in the printing The 2. pag. line 21. This read Thus. pag. 5. li. 5. read the sentence pag. 9. line 24. reade preaching pag. 13. in the margent Iudg. 4 reade Iude. 4. pag. 23. line 12. read Veliphnei Iehouah ijshpok c. pag. 30. line 14. dutie reade vnitie pag. 40. in the margent reade Bale in Apoc. 2. Iraeneus c. pag. 65. line 25. reade were not in the primitiue c. pag. 99. Tit. 3. is to bee placed line 11. and line 19. should be Deut. 13. pag. 108. line 28. reade for instruction onely c. pag. 110. line 23. reade Inst. lib. 4. c. pag. 117. line 2. reade ignorantiam A PLAINE CONFVTATION OF A TREATISE OF Brownisme published by one of that Faction the Title whereof is this A true Description out of the word of God of the visible Church The Answere to the Title THE departure out of the Church is rightly called the badge of an heretike to whom in his going out the Goates do flie for succour when the sheepe of Christ do seeke their foode in the Church of Christ. But because it is a lesser burthen to beare the marke then to haue the name of an heretike it falleth out that men in all ages when they forsake the fellowshippe of the saintes of GOD they doe professe a betaking themselues vnto the true Church of God Heerevppon it commeth that such as haue beene nourished with the milke of discontentment strengthened with the spirite of vnquietnesse and cloathed with the profession of a godlie conscience do now trouble and molest vs refuse to continue with vs and make a nullitie of our Church Their eyes they say are now opened who liued vntill nowe in blindnesse they haue found out the true Church whereof they labour to be members in seeking our good they publish and set sorth vnto vs a true description thereof and this shall bee confirmed out of the word of God This their knowledge their loue and their faithfull dealings are warranted vnto vs
Dan Achab who worshipped in the house of Baal Manasses and others did the people of God cease to be the church of God in no wise VVe grant that Gods ordinances ought to be regarded especially in matters concerning his worship but this is not the matter in question but whether the breaking of them by some one man can make the people of God to be no people vnto him for this is it that should haue bene concluded Next to this is alledged Iohn 6. 37. which place that it may the better be vnderstood we are to remember that in the verse immediatly going before Christ had said Ye haue seene me and beleeue not the he addeth All that my father giueth me shall come vnto me whereby he sheweth that the gift of faith is the free election of the father in Christ so that faith is a certaine testimonie of election to the faithfull The argument standeth thus No man can come vnto Christ and beleeue in him except it be giuen him of the father therefore euerie member of the visible church is holy Surely it is no maruell that the knowledge of the liberal sciences is condemned as an exercise of curious arts but if they knew these Arts no doubt they would be ashamed to abuse themselues others with such sencelesse kinde of reasoning Besides what meaneth this that to prooue the people of God faithfull are alledged scriptures that speake of holines as Esa. 62. 12. Deut. 14. 2. And now to proue their holinesse faith is mentioned If faith and holinesse be all one why are they noted as diuers with e f if they be not all one why is the handling of them thus confounded in one of these must be acknowledged a foule ouersight Then followeth to proue the holinesse of the church aforesaid Iohn 3. 14. 12. 32. both which places doe shew that Christ will draw his elect vnto him the first doth shew the meanes whereby this shalbe done namely by the ministerie of his word which is signified by his lifting vp the other place noting the time viz. after his death Now this is the force of this argument Christ bringeth men to beleeue in him therefore euery member of the visible church is holie I neede not stay in shewing how well this proofe is made we wil come to the last place for this matter cited which is that of Christ Luk. 17. 3. Looke to your selues and so proceedeth in shewing how reprehensions are to be vsed I cannot perceiue what moued the Author to alledge this place which pertaineth not to the matter except it were to make a shew in the margent amongst his other friuolous vain quotacions To proceede This faithfull and holy people is gathered in the name of Christ Iesus their onely king priest and prophet c. That Christ Iesus is our onely king priest and prophet and that the seruants of God in all their assemblies both publike and priuate do meete in his name is confessed but the manner of dealing with the scripture is not here greatly to be commended For how is the kingdome of Christ prooued for it is cited Gen. 44. and the tenth verse where Ioseph speaking to his brethren of the cuppe saith thus Now then let it be according to your words he with whom it is found shall be my seruant and yee shall be blamelesse Truely if a written coppie of this treatise being more ancient then the printed booke had not come vnto my handes wherein I see the same place quoted I should haue laide this fault vppon the Printer for I should neuer haue suspected a church builder to haue bene such a sencelesse prophaner of the word of God The other testimonies viz. Psal. 45. 6. Zac. 9. 9. Heb. 1. 8. are more plaine So for his priesthood the making intercession for his Rom. 8. 34. Ioh. 17. which is a part of that function and Heb. 5. 9. 8. 1. 4. 14. speaking of the whole office are to be accepted Now to come to his propheticall function for which is alledged Deut. 18. 15. which is not to be restrained vnto Christ for it promiseth vnto the church a continuall succession of teachers in all ages It is more to purpose which is alledged out of Matth. 17. 5. Heb. 1. 1. but as touching Gen. 14. 18. though it speaketh of Melchisedek who was king of Salem and a Priest and was a figure of Christ Heb. 7. 1. yet the place that is quoted hath small force in it selfe to proue that for the which it is brought This church also worshippeth him aright that is neither in a set forme of praier nor yet in that place where discipline is not established for we gather the Authors minde out of his owne writings So that he alloweth that for true worship which is by the direction of Gods spirit our onely helpe and vnder the established gouernement of Pastors c. Indeed God is a spirite and is to be worshipped in spirite and truth which cannot be done without his direction yet are there certaine outward helpes which God hath sanctified for the furthering of the weake in their special seruing of God as reading c. And if true worship cannot be performed without this gouernment then may not we iustifie euen their owne seruing of God for they thēselues do want this discipline Three places of scripture are here abused Exo. 20. 7. 8. Leuit. 10. 5. Ioh. 4. 23. for not one of them condemneth read prayers in any mā much lesse whol churches either for them or for want of this discipline True it is that the name of God must not be abused neither must his worship be prophaned as is euident to be seene in Nadab and Abihu who for their strange fire were consumed of the Lord not that he regardeth so much a cole of fire only he warneth men to take heede that they worship God according to his owne appointment But to the matter Did the sin of Nadab and Abihu cause Moses his people to be no church vnto God we may not so thinke The offenders receiued iust recompence for their sin the rest continued the seruants worshippers of God These proofs therfore faile in these points First they proue not that the false worship of one maketh a nullity before God of the whole cōgregation but shew the contrarie secondly they proue not a set forme of praier to be a taking of Gods name in vaine a prophanation of the sabaoth or a carnal worship but we say that this kind of worship is vnlike to that of Nadab Abihu because it is warranted in the word of God wherin I wil not vrge Nu. 6. 23. or Matth. 6. 9. which hauing bin aledged heretofore are turned aside with expounding the Hebrue coh the greek houtos after this manner or thus as if the place in Numery were the sum of al blessings the other in Matth. were only giuē for a direction in
lambe and that worde of their testimonie they are more then conquerours brusing the head of the serpent yea thorough the power of his word they haue power to cast downe sathan like lightning to tread vpon serpents and scorpions to cast downe strong holdes and euerie thing that exalteth it selfe against God The gates of hell and all the principalities powers of the world shall not preuaile against it Brownist The muster maister hath viewed the world chosen his soldiers appointed the victuallers selected out the sergeants of the bands hath brought them to their captaine and they are readie to march on vnder his conduct in the face of their enemies bodily and ghostly to the confusion of sathan sinne hell and all VVhat wages he exspected for this his peece of seruice is best knowne vnto him selfe but what faithfulnes he hath vsed in his dealing it is apparant vnto all for in these three things his packing is notorious First that the victory of the church which she is assured of in and through the power of Christ is here restrained limited for our author doeth acknowledge it so farre only as it enioyeth this foresaid gouernement of Pastors Doctors Elders c. Secondly that the power of the word of God the ministerie thereof which is the sanctified meanes for sathans ouerthrow and the building vp of Christ his church is here granted no otherwise then this word is preached vnder this outward gouernement Lastly that the certainetie of victorie which is by faith is heere applied to the whole visible church as if all the members thereof were truly faithful By this his practise he woulde conclude that which as yet remaineth vnproued viz. that the necessitie of this gouernmēt is such that the enioyning of it is sufficient to make the church without spot or wrinckle and that where this is wanting there is no fight against fathan no strife against sinne no victorie no church apparant The testimonies of Scripture that should helpe him herein and are for the same cause noted in the margent do cut the throat of these his follies For thogh he telleth vs that this armie of Sainctes is martialled here on earth by these officers yet the holy ghost describeth the warrior and his traine to be the warriors which were in heauen Though this man saith that triumph is made by vertue of this gouernment yet the holy ghost saith it is in pacience and constancie of faith and obedience And in a word though he affirmeth that discipline is all in all yet the places noted by him speaking of the power of Christ in his sernants ouercomming satan doe not once mention anie outward gouernment much lesse this discipline here prescribed Brownist Further he hath giuen them the keies of the kingdome of heauen that whatsoeuer they binde on the earth by his word shall bee bound in heauen and whatsoeuer they loose on earth shall be loosed in heauen Now this power which Christ hath giuen vnto his Church and to euerie member of his church to keepe it in order he hath not lefte it to their discretions and lustes to bee vsed or neglected as they will but in his last will and testament he hath set downe both an order of proceeding and an end to which it is vsed Answere God hath in deede committed authoritie vnto his church of binding and loosing and hath also shewed an order of proceeding which assertions are to be collected out of these three places of Scriptures which are twice noted in the margent that the number of testimonies which they vsed might seeme greater then it is But here we haue to marke that Christ is said to haue giuen this power aforesaid to euery member of the church so that heere is no difference made betwene the people the gouernors or at the lest i◠he supposeth a difference to be betweene them he hath not set downe how farre the authoritie of the people is extended Againe if the people be granted so greate an interest in the matters of the church we must thinke that the officers themselues I meane the Deacons releeuers were not to be secluded which being graunted and seemeth here to be concluded not only women haue to dele in the censures of the Church but also the description of euerie office the Elder onely excepted hath ben vnperfect seeing no such matter hath beene mentioned in any of them Secondly we are to note that he saith that this order is not left to the descretion of the church for if his meaning bee that the censures of the church ought to bee vsed with all fidelitie wee doe not gainesaie him but if hee meane that when they are not duely executed there the church doeth cease to be the church apparant according to that doctrine which in another place they haue set downe then do they agree with the Anabaptists Donatists herein who being sufficientlie answered the one by Bullinger the other by Augustine I maruell that these men shoulde not be satisfied and contented to reuoke this error The summe of whose answers tend to this that the end of excommunication for the question is not of the officers but of the church censures in this place is that the partie punished might bee amended that the credite of the church might bee furthered that others be not offended and made worse and that the church might be preserued in peace Therefore edification and the welfare of the Church are especially to be regarded for better it were that wicked men should goe vnpunished if the punishing of them shoulde damnify the Church Againe the church of Corinth was the church of God when they neglected to proceede against the incestuous person Also the last supper of the Lord was rightly administred yet Iudas was not excommunicate the Prophets complained of the sinnes of the church in their times yet contemned they not the sacrifices sacraments and worship of God Christ and his Apostles blamed the Church for grosse corruptions yet was he circumcised therein c. By which reasons as by others by thē produced we are vrged to acknowledge that it may be the Church of God which doth not alwaies proceede against the wicked according to their deserts Thirdly we are to marke that hee ascribeth the keies of the kingdom of heauen to the officers before named whereas Christ committed this power not to the Elders for none were established but vnto the ministers of the word for in Peter they all are represented as by considering the places alleged out of Mathew and Iohn will plainly appeare Brownist And if the fault be priuate priuat holy louing admonition and reproofe with an inward desire and earnest care to win their brother but if he wil not heare thee yet to take two or three other brethren with him whome hee knoweth most meet to that purpose that by the mouth of two or three witnesses euerie worde
church only but all others also that are not framed according to their rule I will answere them therefore in that order which the author hath vsed in drawing these matters into arguments The first argument of theirs is this Brownist Their church consisteth not of a companie of faithfull people but of multitude of prophane people therefore they are not the true church Ansvvere Seeing the propositions both of this and the arguments following are set downe before it should seme that of purpose they are nowe omitted yet to make the matter plaine the argument is after this manner The true planted and right established church of Christ is a company of faithful people but the church of Englande is not a companie of faithfull people Therefore not a true planted and rightly established church Whereunto I answere that the assumption is with great insolency set downe as if magistrates ministers people were without exception of any a flocke of goates a companie of hell hounds Likewise the proposition sauoreth of Anabaptistry whiles it admitteth none to be members of the visible church but faithfull people onely But concerning the assumption I grant that some of Cain his brood of Cham his conditions and of Esau his qualities are in our church euen as there are amongst these persecuted Christians some of the schollers of Shimei some of Corah his company some Ismaels c. Herein is the difference betweene their church and ours that we account of such beastes as they are though wee labour by the worde and other meanes to bring them vnto repentance but if their Atheists can but say that discipline is good though they knowe not what it meaneth if they wil heaue at magistracy raile vpō the established gouernement they must be presently canonized registred in the booke of the faithfull whatsoeuer their conditions are otherwise In the proposition I see nothing which hath not beene answered pag. 12. c. only here are certaine scriptures cited in the margent so farre from proouing the matter in question that if they be vnderstoode of euery member of the visible church to prooue them faithfull we may with as good reason from the same places conclude that neither the publike ministerie nor priuat admonitions are to be vsed in the visible church for these are the wordes of Ieremie And they shall teach no more euerie man his neighbour and euerie man his brother saying knowe the Lorde for they shall all knowe me from the least of them to the greatest of them saith the Lord for I vvill forgiue their iniquitie c. Brownist They haue made no separation from the heathen of the lande but all are receaued and retained in the bosome of their churches therefore c. Ansvver This is the argument The true church is a company of people separated from the vnbeleeuers heathen of the lande but the church of Englande hath made no separatlon c. therefore c. The proposition is denied if such a separation be vnderstoode as is spoken of Matth. 25. 32. as hath bin proued pag. 11. 12. c. but if they take it as it is in the place by them selues alleaged Leuit. 20. 24. we do grant it for Israell is there said to be separated from that heathen yet was it not separated from all vnbeleeuers onely it was in respect of their outward profession The assumption in the former sence is granted but otherwise it is euident to be a meere slander for neither are any receaued into our church except they ioyne with vs in outward profession neither are their children baptized except the parents or some for the parents do promise to see thē brought vppe in the knowledge of God and faith in Christ Iesus But they proue this assumption after this sort They vvere all say they by the blovving of her maiesties trumpet at her coronation in one day receiued vvithout conuersion of life by faith and repentance and they and their seede euer since generallie receaued to your sacramentes without any separation from the world Before I make answere vnto this assertion I would learne if I might how these men would haue the people to come vnto an established church at the first For they tel vs 1. That there can be no true church vntill euerie member therof hath by faith and repentance separated himselfe from the vnbeleeuers But how shall they come vnto this faith for they tell vs also 2. That none can haue true faith and repentance but such as are called thereunto by the preaching of the gospel And how shall they haue this Gospel preached vnto them 3. There must be sheepe before there can be a flocke there must be a flocke before there can be a shepheard because the people must choose their Pastor so that they affirme that the people must be brought to the faith before they can haue a Pastor and yet they cannot haue faith vvithout preaching Which way then shall this preaching be had for the attaining vnto faith The Magistrate say they ought to compel the Infidels to heare the doctrine of the church and also vvith the approbation of the church to send forth meete men vvith gifts and graces to instruct the Infidels being yet no ministers or officers vnto them but in the time of Poperie they affirme that the people could not be the church therefore I would be resolued in these two points First where the magistrate in such a case shuld haue a church to giue consent vnto his sending forth of such teachers to instruct infidels And thus haue they led vs about haue brought vs to the same place where we were at the first And secondly what they are which thus are sent by the magistrate and the church if not ministers of the word vnto those infidels whom they teach and herein we require an answere by the word Now to our assertion concerning our turning from Poperie at the blowing of her maiesties trumpet I doubt not but this will be graunted that some of Q. Maries subiects beleeued and made a bold confession of their faith who to the ioye of all christian hearts in the lande remaine in our church vntill this daie Others there were like vnto Nichodemus in his comming to Christ by night and in his faint defending of the truth who if the Lord should for our vnthankfulnes send a scourge wold with Nichodemus make a bolde confession of their loue to Christ Iesus So that all were not Pagans that embraced the Gospell at the sounding of her maiesties trumpet beeing faithfull the seales of the couenant did pertaine vnto their seed But some it may be ioyned for feare in the outward profession who these were the searcher of mans heart doth know So did Ismael in Abrahams house Caine in Adams house and these vnfaithfull Israelites vnder Iosua when at his only commandement they were all circumcised There was therefore such a separation at her maiesties
in the Title of this their treatise which matters if we can finde therein we will acquite them from schisme and heresie but if the discourse be not answerable vnto the Title they must returne vnto vs or else wee must acknowledge them to be not as they pretend but as they are Brownist As there is but one God and father of all one Lord ouer all and one Spirite so is there but one truth one faith one saluation one Church called in one hope ioyned in one profession guided by one rule euen the word of the most high The answere In this first sentence which heere is sette dovvne wee are giuen to vnderstande what there is to bee hoped for in that which followeth both for the matter and also for the manner of handling the matter if wee do but regarde the ende and scope thereof being altogither false yet packed vp with euident truthes that the certaintie of these might free the other of suspition The manner of dealing is to pester the margent with a cloud of witnesses to smal purpose onely they make the ignorant beleeue that he which gain-saith this booke doth speake against the word of God But how vainly this is done it will appeare by the examination of the particulars Seeing the nature and gouernment of the church say they is like vnto the Lord thereof it must be granted that as God is euer one and the same so is his church which professeth one truth holdeth one faith and is guided by that order which God hath reuealed in his word Our answere is that we do acknowledge one God the father sonne holy ghost his truth our faith and the meanes of our saluation to be vnchangeable we confesse likewise one catholike church which is the communion of saints which iointly and seuerally do confesse that saluation is obtained in and through Iesus Christ alone This church comprehendeth in it both angels and men the one sort continuing in the other sort restored vnto that estate wherein they stand and all obtaining this sentence of being perfitly righteous in and thorough the head of that church whereof they are members euen Iesus Christ our Lord. This is the church which they say must be guided by one rule euen the word of the most high Now we desire to know in what sence the word of the most high is taken for if they meane thereby the prouidence of God in which sence it is sometimes taken as Deut. 8. 3. Heb. 1. 3. we do agree in this clause also But the places quoted in the margent do shew that it is meant of the reuealed will of God contained in his word For Deut. 6. 25. Moses telleth the Israelites that the obseruing of all the commandements of the Lord their God wil be their righteousnes Paul Rom. 10. 8. saith that the worde of God was in their mouth in their hart euen the word of faith which vvas preached Againe 2. Tim. 3. 15. hee sheweth Timothie that the scriptures are able to make him wise vnto saluation thorough the faith that is in Christ Iesus Christ in the eight Chapter of Iohn and the one and fiftith verse affirmeth that if a man keepe his vvorde he shall neuer see death Lastly Iohn saith 1. Iohn 2. 3. By this vve knovv that vve know him if we keepe his commandements It is euident that these places do speake of the word of God which is giuen vnto vs to be our guide in this life for the gathering togither of the saints during their abode in this world but when life ceaseth the vse of this word of God doth cease in the Church of God as appeareth in the first to the Corinthians the thirteenth chapter and eight verse Colossians the first chapter and the three and twentith verse c. Therefore to say that the whole church that is both angels in heauen the faithfull departed out of this life and the godly remaining vpon the earth are all alike gouerned by this rule doth bewray either a foule ignorance or a foolish rashnesse VVhich rash ignorance if in this one matter it had shewed it selfe onely it had bene more tollerable then it can be when it alledgeth manie scriptures to prooue the truth so vnseasonablie as here it doth about the vnitie of the Godhead c. For the two first places the first chapter of Genisis and the first verse the twentith Chapter of Exodus and the third verse do mention God in regard of his soueraigntie ouer all things but they speake of him as the inheritour of mount Sion his Church wherefore that of saint Paul in the first to Timothie the second chapter and fourth verse might haue bene sufficient both for the proofe of this and also that there is but one truth one faith c Vnto the knowledge whereof it is the will of God that men should come and be saued By the way obserue that this place of Paul doth crosse that negatiue of theirs We denie say they that you are able to iustifie that faith which they beget their reason is because our worshipping of God is not ioyned with their discipline for we hold that faith which Paul approueth As for the testimonie which Paul giueth of Epaphroditus that he is his brother companion in labor and fellow souldier It is a weake proofe of that whereunto it is referred so is that of the Iewes saying that they haue all one father euen God which Christ denyeth vnto them in the verse next following These things are spoken not to call that into question which in it selfe is true but to shew what discretion hath bene vsed in the choise and alledging these scriptures But we will go forward Brownist This Church as it is vniuersally vnderstood containeth in it all the elect of God that haue ben are or shall be The answere Most certaine it is that the inuisible Church of God extendeth it selfe vnto all the beloued of God that haue bene are or shall be men and Angells beeing complete in him who is the head of all principalities and powers to wit Iesus Christ. VVe do agree herein yet it hath his warrant such as it is for it is here proued by the couenant made with Abraham Gen. 17. and by the vision of Iohn Reuel 7. 9. VVhich places do not proue the matter in as much as they speake of the restoring and preseruation of man onely and not of the whole bodie of the church The other three places alledged are lesse to purpose Peter 1. Pet. 1. 2. writeth vnto the church which was scattered ouer the face of the earth so that he speaketh not of the vniuersall church of God but of that which was in his age Paul saith 1. Cor. 10. 3. that the fathers did eate one spirituall meat But they were not the vniuersall church of God he speaketh only of those that were before him Christ prayeth for his Apostles Ioh. 17. 20. and not for them
entrance vnto the Crowne as the visible Church in all ages from the beginning hath afforded Brownist They are not gathered in the name of Christ but in the name of Antichrist vvhom they obey as shall aftervvard appeare Therefore c. Ansvvere The Argument is this The true church is gathered in the name of Christ but the church of England is not c. Therefore not the true church The proposition is granted the Assumption is denied in asmuch as we do renounce the doctrine gouernment worship of Antichrist as shalbe shewed in the places where they labor to proue the contrary Brownist They vvorship not God truely but after a false and idolatrus manner as vvitnesseth their Popish liturgie their stinted booke of common praiers Therefore c. The Argument standeth this The true church worshipeth God truely but the church of England doth not Therefore it is no true church I grant the proposition yet with this caueat that not euery mēber of the visible church performeth this dutie and that the true worship of God offered vnto him by man thorough the frailtie of man is not without great wants The matter of the assumption hath bene dealt in pag. 21. And they receiue not nor obey not Christ as their king priest and prophet Therefore c. This argument is diuided into three seuerall parts in this manner Not as their king reiecting his gouernement and receiuing and standing vnder the antichristian yoke of their Popish gruernment Therefore c. The force of the reason is this The true church obeyeth Christ as her king and reteineth his gouernement but the church of England doth not Therefore no true church We are to remember that the question is of outward gouernment which hath bene shewed pag. 25. not to be the life of the church but the word onely Herevnto we ad their own confession that the true church may be vvithout sacraments which we hold as necessarie as outward gouernment But we are here charged with a double crime viz. with the casting of Christs gouernment and with the receiuing the yoke of Antichrist To the first whereof I answere that if pastors Doctors and Elders and Deacons be the gouernement of Christ we haue it in as much as the matter required in all these offices is retained with vs if these be abused by men it is not sufficient to proue that we haue them not at all if strife be about the changing of the names wise men will condemne it for follie To the second I answere that her maiestie is supreame gouernesse ouer vs in all causes both ecclesiasticall and ciuill and therefore hath authoritie to appoint such gouernors to confirme that gouernment which being not contrarie vnto Gods word shall seeme meete vnto hir Nowe this gouernement which we haue else where is shewed to haue bene for the preseruation of discipline and auoiding confusion before the time that Antichrist bare sway in the church I grant that afterward he abused it so did he many other matters and yet they are not to be counted Antichristian hauing not their beginning of him when they are restored vnto their first vse But this one calumniation bringeth foorth these fruites First in teaching that euery priuat man hath authority in the election of ecclesiasticall gouernors or else the gouernement is Antichristian the priuat man is taught to intrude into her highnesse right to whome this matter was granted by Act of Parlement 1. Eliz. 1. Againe in disswading from the obedience of this authority the cōmandement of God is made no commandement Ro. 13. 1. which willeth that euery soule be subiect vnto the higher powers And as Absolon with Dauid so do these men deale with her maiesty in seeking to alienate the harts of good subiects from her by crying out against her gouernment promising better things if they be harkned vnto that mē might be brought to ioyne in their rebellions We shun the Iesuites who from house to house do labour to draw the people into a loathing of their present estate this natiue schisme is so muche the more to bee looked vnto as it commeth with a greater shew of godlinesse and yet indeuoreth to worke confusion by these Iesuiticall proceedings Brownist Not as their Priest sacrilegiously prophaning his name vvith their idolatrie prostituting his blood and making him a Priest and sacrifice to infidels and the most vvicked offenders Ansvvere The Argument is thus The true church receiueth Christ as their Priest but the church of England doth not because it prophaneth his name c. Therefore no true church The assumtion is false for the doctrin of our church is that Christ is the onely Priest who by his owne blood entred in once into the holy place and obtained eternall redemption for vs and therefore that men should walke worthy of so holy a calling as Christ hath vouchsafed to set them in neither in their worshipping of God prophaning his name not by their vngodlinesse abusing his sacraments wherein the practise by our church commanded is that prophane vngodly men be repelled from the same It is not therfore a matter to be generally laid vnto the charge of the whole church that they prophane his name c. I grant indeed that the Pastor may thorow ignorance negligence or some other euill occasion deliuer the sactament to an vnworthy man which as it is a sinne in the receiuer so may it be as great a sinne in the deliuerer yet will this be a weake reason to conuince the whole church of prostituting the blood of Christ denying his priesthood prophaning his name c. seing that Iudas was partaker of the supper of the Lord and yet the whole companie were not polluted thereby Brownist Not as their prophet giuing no obedience to his vvord vsing it as a mantell to couer their sinne rather then as a rule vvherby to direct their liues not seeking a true ministerie but maintaining a false of vvhich sort the vvhole ministererie of the land is vvhich are permitted to teach in their publike places to vvhom they giue eare Ansvvere The Argument is this The true church receiueth Christ as her prophet but the church of England doth not c. Therefore c. The assumption of which argument they proue thus First because the church of England giueth no obedience to his word Secondly because they vse it as a mantle to couer their sinne and thirdlie because they seeke not a true ministerie but maintaine a false It hath heretofore bene granted that the best churches haue had some bad members in them whereof some in Athiesme despised the word others in hipocrisie made it a cloake to couer their vngodlinesse wherein the church of England goeth not scotfree but for the wickednes of some to condeme the whole were verie hard and so sharpely to censure all were intollerable Yet these men do it when they affirme that no obedience is giuen to the word as if all from the
onely but for those which should beleeue in him thorough their pearching he prayeth not for the vniuersall church viz. all that haue bene are or shalbe but for those which being aliue should inioy the ministery of his Apostles But it may be the authors meaning is not out of euery of these seuerally but from them al ioyntly to conclude this vniuersal church for as much as Paul speaketh of those which haue bene Peter speaketh of those that are and Christ mentioneth those that shalbe VVhich though we should grant yet they all mention but mankind onely and thereof not all the elect of God for the infants which are vnder the couenant and departing this life before they are capable of the ministerie of the word are not comprehended within the number of those which Christ in that place prayed for Peter did write vnto c. so that these places iointly taken do not conteine so much of the vniuersall church as the two first places though they did yet they do not comprehend the whole as hath bene said Thus a good dish may be marred by an vnskilfull cooke and a good matter spoiled by an vnlearned clearke Brownist But being considered more particularly as it is seene in this present world it consisteth of a company and felowship of faithfull and holy people gathered togither in the name of Christ Iesus their only king priest prophet worshipping him aright being peaceably gouerned by his officers and lawes keeping the vnitie of faith in the bond of peace and loue vnfeigned Answere Leauing the inuisible church of God we are to keep in remembrance that this discourse is of the visible church as it is seene in this world and it setteth before our eyes the matter whereof it is framed the glory wherewith it is crowned the discipline whereby it is gouerned and the estate which it enioyeth euen in this life All which matters are here set downe so necessarie vnto the esse or being of the church that the want of these or of anie of these presentlie causeth a nullitie thereof but how substantiallie these matters are prooued the particulars shall make manifest The matter whereof this church is framed is a companie of people which is faithfull c. The Authors meaning is expressed more plainely in the arguments vsed against the church of England Argument 6. The church of Christ is sanctified and made glorious without spot or wrincle or grosse pollution Againe Argument 8. The people shalbe all righteous Againe One wicked man disanulleth the couenant vnto all And in the latter end of this booke it is concluded that in this visible church is no vncleane person But was not the house of Adam the visible church of God and Cain a member of it he was vnfaithfull Was not the Arke of Noah the visible church of God and Cham preserued in it he was vnfaithfull VVas not Ismael being circumcised in Abrahams house of the visible church he was vnfaithfull VVas not Esau in the family of Isaac Achab in his raigne ouer Israel and Iudas Ischariot of the visible church all these were vnfaithfull In the visible church of God there will be tares yea vntill the haruest chaffe among the wheat goates among the sheepe hypocrites among the true professors nay to go further Antichrist for a time sitting in the temple of God and other monstrous men abiding in the church turning the grace of God into wantonnesse But they do confesse that there may be pollutions in the manners of men being secret which they leaue vnto God but if they be such spots and wrinkles as declare the church not to be glorious then no apparant church VVhat spots they can finde greater than those before mentioned I know not yet this I adde that the church at Ierusalem was not greatly glorious in the dayes of Herods tyrannie when also the office of the high Priest was diuided to two Nor from the dayes of Malachy vntill the comming of Christ during all which time there was a deepe silence of the word Nor in the captiuitie of Babylon as appeareth by the prophesie of Zacharie Nor in the daies of Hussia Iothan Achaz and Hezechia when Esay complained that there was no whole part from the sole of the foote to the head but wounds swellings and sores full of corruption Nor in the time of Dauid when the incest of one of his sonnes the traiterous attempts of another yea the sinnes committed by Dauid himself were most abhominable And yet I hope the Author will acknowledge these to haue bene the apparant church of God euen in the midst of grosse pollutions Therefore it is not necessary for the esse or being of the church apparant that euerie member therof be faithfull c. How is this therefore proued here is quoted Psal. 111. 1. I will praise the Lord with my whole heart in the secret meetings of the iust and in their congregation that is both publikely and priuatly wheresoeuer the iust do meete Also Psal. 149. 1. where he calleth the said meetings the congregation of the godly But in these places Dauid neither saith that it is vnpossible for a wicked man to ioyne with the faithfull in outward dueties nor yet that the presence of the vngodly mā can cause the assembly not to be the congregation of the iust or godly which is the matter that should haue bin concluded Now wheras the church is called an holy people Esa. 62. 12. Deut. 14. 2. it is in regard that they were the seed of him with whom the couenant was made but howsoeuer in respect hereof the adoption pertained to them the glory the couenant the giuing of the Law the seruice of God the promises of whom are the fathers and of whom concerning the flesh Christ came and therfore were called an holy people yet neither are all they Israel that are of Israel neither yet is the true Israel cleane vntil the fountaine be opened to wash away their filthinesse as for the church of Ephesus Eph. 1. 1. of Corinth Cor. 1. 2. they are indeed called saints but can we truly say that there was no pollution knowne among them the matter is plain that euē at that instant as appeareth by both the Epistles al things were not so well in these churches as were to be wished Therefore notwithstanding these churches are called saints Israel holy and the assemblie of such as worship God a congregation of the iust yet there may be a visible church of God though some member thereof be not faithfull This people saith our Author must be also holy for proofe whereof is brought Deut. 12. 5. where the people are commanded to worship in the place which the Lord should choose But I pray you when some of them obeyed not as Ieroboam who caused the people to worship in Bethel and
our praiers the vanity of which cauil togither with the whole discourse hereof I leaue to him who hath alredy dealt with this matter yet in the meane season we may note that the 102. Ps. was not giuen for a patterne of prayer but to be vsed for a prayer as appeareth by the title therof Tepillah legnanei kiiagne toph beliphne Iehouah jishpek shicho A praier for the poore when he is distressed powring out his meditation before the Lord. Also Psa. 9. Mizmor shir leiom hashabath A Psalme song for the sabaoth day So that as the former was a set praier for the afflicted so this latter was a thanksgiuing for the blessings of God both of them vsed in his holy worship Of the like sort are Psal. 42. 44. 22. 80. 39. and many other Psalmes which were not helpes onely to meditation but set praiers in the church of God Thirdly these places proue not the want of this discipline to make a false worship but we say that God cannot be truly serued where the discipline described in this treatise is established which shall appeare by that which followeth Being peaceably gouerned by his officers and lawes The Author expresseth what his meaning is in the other part of this booke for he describeth these officers and these lawes what they are Concerning all which this I say in generall that here is nothing but palpable ignorance to be found for first these gouerning officers pastors doctors Elders Deacons and relieuers being fiue in number are so necessarily required that the want of these or any of these in a congregation causeth it to be no Church apparant Against the which assertion for to make their madnes more manifest we do here by the way of supposition grant vnto thē that there are such functions yet these exceptions may be taken first if the author hath described the relieuer and the Deacon faithfully then are they no gouerning officers but seruants vnto the church Secondly that the want of Elders taketh not away the esse or being of the church considering that Christ and his disciples which ioined with him were the apparant church and yet during the time of his humiliation these officers were not erected And when many reuolted as is to be seene Iohn 6. Christ asking the twelue if they also would go away Peter answered in the name of the rest Master to whom shall we go thou hast the words of eternal life so that Peter accounteth the word a sufficient warrant for his continuing with Christ howsoeuer these men though they confesse that the worde of God is to be heard yet denie the hearing of it at their mouthes which haue not ordained Elders among them But this may seeme no sufficient proofe which is taken from Christ and his disciples forasmuch as this discipline was not then commanded I answere that if there were a time when the church of Christ was without this gouernment and forasmuch as it receiued not the gouernment of the Iewes it is not a perpetuall rule that outward gouernment should be the life of the Church but I will not holde them in this straight they aske where we can finde a church without this gouernement after that Christ had sent his spirite vpon the disciples I answere that as Timothie was left at Ephesus so was Titus in Crete I meane in the house of God which is the church of the liuing God And yet at that time Elders were not appointed in that church before Titus had ordained them not to speake of the church of Ierusalem which made choise of Deacons but not of Elders Also it is plaine that the Elders which were appointed in the churches by the Apostles were for the most part such as dealt in the worde and not in gouerment onely as heereafter shall be made more manifest in his due place Thirdly that the Doctor is not necessary in euery congregation nor yet to execute his office in the publike assemblies For wheras they themselues affirme that the word sacramentes must go together for which they alledge that saying of Christ Go preach haptising by which saying wee are drawen to the mislike of vnpreaching ministers so by the same wee may conclude against an vnministering Doctorship the worde and Sacraments the mysteries of God are not to be diuorced yet do we acknowledge the office of a Doctor a distinct matter frō the pastors function who is to feed his sheep with the mysteries of God both worde and Sacraments in the assēblies which are for Gods worship the Doctor attending vpon his dutie in a place by the church appointed instructing men in the true sense of the scriptures whereby the church may haue able men alwaies in readines to supplie such romes as shalbee void in the church by death or otherwise Pastor in ecclesijs Doctor in scholis Lastly I saie that though it were grāted that this platform drawen out in this treatise were warranted by the word yet cānot they ascribe to it an abilitie to make the church of God perfect therby in this life for thē shuld that praier be needlesse forgiue vs our sinnes Neither will they say that these offices can at al times be had especially when there are not men sufficiently qualified for them for they confesse that Gods ordinances are not to be prophaned and to haue no Elders is better then to haue ignorant and insufficient Elders and in this respect do they cleare the church in the dayes of Christs humiliation and acquit it from sinne in the want of this established gouernement nor yet will they grant that if there were men meete for these offices that yet they should be set in these roomes before the church doth elect them for here is no intrusion c. So that the most that by their owne doctrine is to be yeelded vnto is this that when men are able in respect of their gifts to vndertake this burthen if it be thought a matter expedient by euery member of the church then is this gouernement necessary but this is farre wide from that conclusion which is made against the church of England that it should not be a church bicause it did not receiue this gouernement I omit to speake any further of the particular offices vntil we come to the seuerall handling of them And as touching the lawes which here are required either they are not at all described in this booke which were grosse or else we must confesse that the lawes of Christ are vnperfect which is impious For the lawes that in the end of this boke are set down are such as may seeme to be sufficient for the ordering of the common sort but if the Elder be disordered here is no lawe for his reformatiō or if the whole seignory do faile either in iudgement or in proceeding as generall councels much more a priuat eldership may feele their wants there is no manner of proceeding declared in this euill
beholde what then to enioy so blessed a communion But to begin withall the place of Salomon Can. 6. 4. 9. is much abused by the author whilest that it is applied to cōmēd the beutie of the church which is nothing else but blacknesse as the church her selfe acknowledgeth For wheras in the former chapter the church hath accused her selfe of negligence in not perfourming her dueties vnto her spouse And the daughters of Ierusalem comforting her she declared his nature and disposition the place of his abode c. whereby shee doeth aggreuate her former fault For quem beneficia accepta meliorem non reddunt is certe etiam grauius suppliuum commeretur Hee whome benefites receiued make not better doth deserue the more grieuous punishment And surely the greater the loue of Christ is to the church the greater is the sinne of the church in not performing dutie Novv in the former parte of this sixth chapter her beloued doth comfort her doth assure hir that she is as dere vnto him novv as euer before she had beene So then it is not the excellencie of the church that commendeth her but her spouse through his gracious fauor doth accept of her notvvithstanding her defects which she acknowledgeth To let this passe let vs consider the seuerall parts of this visible church Her King and Lord is the king of peace and Lord himself of al glory the sauior of Sion Esa. 62. 11. a king Iohn 12. 15. and one whose soueraigntie was figured in Melchizedek Heb. 7. 8. So that in regard of this hir king we also do confesse the church to be glorious She enioyeth most holy and heauenly lawes Most true it is that the commandements of Christ are such that it cannot iustly be counted a seruitude to be obedient vnto them yrksome they are no doubt to a carnall man but not to him that loueth God this is it that is witnessed in the places alledged viz. Matt. 11. 30. and 1. Iohn 5. 3. but what are these Lawes and commandements Our Sauiour Christ say they was fortie daies after his resurrection conuersant with his Apostles teaching them those things which concerne the building of the church and kingdome and the Apostles according as they haue receiued instruction of him so they builded and lefte vs a patterne nowe So that these most holie lawes were giuen by Christ to his Apostles betvveene the times of his resurrection and ascention VVhereunto I saie that although the discipline of Christ beeing his owne ordinance is most holy yet this is to put it in the number of vnwritten verities when men would proue it by such arguments as this is And as for the saying of Christ by them produced it doth not speake of discipline for hee onelie willeth his Disciples to take his yoake vpon them I knowe that they take this Yoake for discipline but the circumstaunces of the place do bewraie their ignorance in so thinking For in bearing this yoake CHRIST willeth that his example bee followed Learne of me saith Christ. Nowe I woulde vnderstande of these men what was that Church wherein Christ founde this discipline established and submitted himselfe vnto the same leauing this his deede for an example to bee followed if they cannot tel me this as it is harde to shewe that which neuer was I wonder what hath moued them to wring out discipline from hence seeing that Christ onely exhorteth to submission meeknes c. by his example The Philosopher was not so grosse in his Panspermia as they are in making quidlibet ex quolibet so commonly Yet I saie againe the lawes of Christ are most holy and that discipline which he approueth most necessarie which is not the gouernment which heere is decyphered for it shall appeare to bee the deuice of man without the approbation of the vvord of God but the rule of his worde wherein vvee are taught to emploie our selues in our seuerall callings to performe those dueties which in our callings God requireth at our handes As for the vigilancie of Pastors the sinceritie of Doctors the carefulnesse of Gouernors the trustinesse of those vnto whom the care of the poore is committed the sobrietie of relieuers the humilitie obedience and meekenesse of the people these are required in the word of God and all the testimonies in this cause cited one or two excepted are admonitions exhortations that men wold be carefull of these things as they do concerne them in their callings But do these proofes here vsed iustifie that the visible church enioyeth such a people qualified in this sort Nay those that come neerest the matter as Rom. 12. 7. 8. Act. 20. 28. Matth. 5. 5. Deut. 18. 10. are but exhortations vnto this fidelitie vigilancy c. but no promises that the church shal enioy such men alwayes Some of these scriptures do flatly shew the contrarie Read Act. 20. vers 29. 30. I know saith Paul there shall enter in among you grieuous wolues not sparing the flocke c. It is also the iudgement of some that one of the deacons spoken of Act. 6. was the first of the Nicholaitans mentioned Reuel 2. 6. Other places alleaged are nothing to the purpose as Ioh. 13. 7. which is not spoken of the widowes that here are called releuers but to the disciples of their duties in helping one an other Likewise Esay 60. which is a prophesie of the calling of the Gentiles and Eze. 36. 38. which promiseth a blessing vpon Israell are farre from prouing that euerie member of the visible church is meeke obedient c. thus hath our author tolde vs of many good things without due proofe of any one VVhen this describer of the church had shewed vs the sinceritie of euerie member particularly he giueth his iudge ment of them all iointly saying Euerie stone is liuing elect pretious which is confirmed with three testimonies the first is 1. Reg. 7. 9. where the building of Solomon being shewed in order that he built one house to dwell in an other called the forrest of Libanon a porch for the throne where he iudged and a house also for Pharaos daughter it is said All these were of costlie stones And how then did euerie of these buildinges to what vse soeuer they were appointed represent the visible church of God The onely sight of this place is sufficient to shew what force it hath to prooue the matter in question The second place is Zach. 14. 21. Euerie pot in Ierusalem and Iuda shall be holie vnto the Lord of hostes and all they that sacrfice shall come and take of them and seeth therein by this ceremonie the people were put in minde that euerie of them doe worship the Lorde with holy affections but this doeth not prooue that all the people did thus behaue thēselues in Gods worship the contrary is plaine Agg. 2. 11. 12. c. The last place which is 1. Pet. 2. 5. cōmeth more neere the marke for the
Apostle saith that as liuely stones they were made a spirituall house yet he saith not that euery one among them was so and those that were he declareth from whence it came to wit Iesus Christ. In which matter if no further purity be ment by the author we do agree as also that euerie one hath his burthen his order being boūd to edifie one an other exhort reproue and comfort one an other louingly as being members of one bodie and faithfully as in Gods sight The neglect of these duties hath bred nourished continued this late pestilent schisme amongst vs. That the affecting of offices the wresting or neglecting of laws peruerting of truth are not incident to the church is newes too good to be true as shal appere euen by the selfe same places of scripture which here are set in the margent as good proofes of the authors follies whiles that they do so flatly gainesay that which they should iustifie For manie make merchandize of the word 2. Cor. 2. 17. And Diotrephes loueth to haue the preheminence 3. Iohn 9. then is there affecting of offices In the latter times some shall speake lies through hipocrisie and haue their consciences burned with an hot iron 1. Timoth. 4. 2. And some desiring to make a faire shew in the flesh constraine men to be circumcised Galat. 6. 12. then is there peruerting of trueth The Corinthians were negligent in proceeding against the incestuous person 1. Cor. 5. then is there neglecting of lawes VVhat shall we then say to this man who woulde make the world beleue that the scriptures do confirme that which they do so directly and plainely deny Let him pronounce the sentence vpon him selfe He saith The prophet that hath a dreame let him tell a dreame and he that hath Gods word let him speake Gods word faithfully Ier. 23. 28. and so say I for it is a vile abuse that is offered to God and man when a dreame or fancie is countenaunced with the scriptures which doe ouerthrow it What is the chaffe to the wheat Timothie durst not thus behaue himselfe in Gods house 1. timoth. 3. 15. Euerie member of the church say they ought to haue freedome to vtter his complaintes and griefes yea and not disturbing the peaceable order of the church by passing the boundes of his calling to reproue transgressions and errors this we grant of our owne accord not being vrged hereunto by any thing mentioned 1. Corinth 6. or 14. 30. which proue it not but that the estate of the visible church is such that euerie member hath alwaies this freedome we deny it Also we say that as there may be intrusion or climing vp an other way into the sheepefold through mens corruptions then by the election of those to whome election doth belong so woulde it be a horrible cōfusion if the election of offices were left in the hands of the people as in this platforme of discipline they doe teach vs but that the people should haue their interest in ordination also is more then grosse For proofe whereof I will not stand vppon those places of Paule 1. Tim. 5. 22. lay not thy hand rashlie on anie man and Tit 15. for this cause left I thee at Creete that thou mightest appoint Elders in euerie citie because that although they flatly gainesay the ordination of Elders by the people yet they seeme not sufficient vnto some to infringe the libertie of the people in election also because that Luke shewing howe Paule and Barnabas appointed Elders in the churches saith that they did it by consent And it is not to be thought saith Caluin that Paule did grant a greater liberty to Timothie and Titus then he tooke vnto himselfe for which purpose is also alleged Ciprian who would vt sacerdos plebe presente sub omnium oculis deligatur atque dignus atque idoneus publico iudicio cōprobetur that the priest when the people are present be chosen in the sight of all be approued to be sufficient meete by common consent Vnto all which I say that euen these authorities of Luke Caluin and Ciprian do flatly deny that election should be made by the people for Praeesse electioni debere alios pastores nequid vel per leuitatē vel per mala studia vel per tumultū à multitudine peccetur Other pastors ought to rule the election lest the multitude faile either through lightnes or by euill practises or tumult so that howsoeuer it be granted by these places cited that a wise people ought to haue their cōsent in election yet if they be tumultuous ill cōditioned or void of grauity as generally the cōmon sort are fautie in one of these then ought other pastors to rule yea and ouerrule thē Those churches also which by the iudgement of our author himselfe are most reformed who admit not any thing of weight to be don inscia vel inuita ecclesia yet whatsoeuer pertaineth to the state of the church they haue the same disposed by the cōmon counsel of the Elder ship so that election is in their power the people consenting vnto them And therfore not to presse the authority of Chrisostom writing about the yere of our lord 500. saith flatly that neither people nor Elders were to elect a bishop or a minister but the bishop only neither election much lesse ordination ought to be at any time in the hands of the multitude furder then in giuing cosent vnto the pastors nor at all to be regarded if they be such as before haue bin mentioned and therfore as these men are vaine in arrogating more then this so are they vaine in censuring the churche of Englande for that it leaueth not this election vnto the people whose ignorance is generally great for want of instruction whose heads are generally very tumultuous by the meanes of such as this our author is VVhy are not they a holie and free people Indeede when Corah and his companie had gathered them selues togither against Moses and Aaron they said Ye take too much vpon you seeing all the congregation is holie euerie one of them and the Lord is among them But I doubt I should iniurie Corah by comparing these men vnto him for he vnder the pretense of holinesse and freedome sought onely to be priuiledged from submission but these our men vnder the same vaile content not thēselues herewith but in their aspiring minds do seeke to bring not the gouernement of the church onely but of the weale publike also into their handes for obtaining where of they lay this platforme first that priuatmen are to erect and establish this gouernment of theirs and then it being erected that all matters both ciuill and ecclesiastical are to be ordered by the same The later of these two pointes wil be manifest hereafter in their description of an Elder who as they say must discerne betweene plea and plea c. And as touching the former point
although in one of their writings which they haue dispersed they haue made this protestatiō We purpose not to medle with the reformation of the state otherwise then by our prayers vnto God yet as forgetting them selues immediately after in the same discourse they affirme that Christ hath left but one forme of gouernement in his last will and Testament vnto his church which he hath sealed with his bloud and therefore not left it arbitrable at the plesures of princes or policies of times to be done or vndone but made it by a double right inuiolable both by his vvord and his Testamēt so that the church of God can neither be gouerned by any other lawes or gouernement neither ought it to be without this for God holdeth them all in the state of enemies which haue not his sonne to raigne ouer them Now then the faithfull are cōmāded to gather togither in Christs name with promise of directiō protection authoritie not only to establish his lawes ordinances amōg thē but faithfully to gouern his church therby for the kingdom of God cōsisteth not in word but in power Now this assembly of the faithfull before they be planted established in this order cōsisteth hitherto but of priuate persons none as yet being called vnto office function Therefore we may well conclude that God cōmādeth his faithful seruants being as yet priuat men togither to build his church according to the true patterne of Christs Testament thus farre they But here is no word of God to proue any of these assertions we read of Asa Iehosaphat Iehoiada the priest Hezekia Iosia others some of them pulling downe the abominations of Iuda others setting vp the priests Leuits in their places in the house of God disposing thē as in the feere of God semed good in their eies but in the whole book of God is not to be found either precept or exāple to warrant a priuat man in purging much lesse in erecting the church of God Who then required these things at the hands of these men will they tell vs of extraordinary procedings in matters of extremity Let them shew herein some extraordinary testimony from God to warrant vs in regarding them otherwise here is in trusion For howsoeuer Zerubbabel Iehosuah Ezra Nehemia did daily pray for the restoring of the people out of captiuity were most willing ready to go before thē to bring them to Ierusalem yet vntill they had authority cōmitted to thē so to do by the kings of Persia Cirus Darius others they neuer durst attēpt the matter and yet we may truly say that these were no common persons Iehosua being the high priest Zerubbabel a chief mā of the people Ezra a scribe of the law Nehemia a great man yea in the court of Artashast but they al knew ful wel that Moses Aaron the prince and the priest must ioine together in all such actions Likewise in this church they haue holie lavves as limites and boundes vvhich it is lavvfull at no hand to transgresse they haue lavves to direct them in the choise of euerie officer vvhat kiude of them the Lord vvill haue Brownist This tautologie of the holy lawes of the church it is not so vnwisely iterated repeated but it is as foolishly also and fondly proued For Christ Matth. 5. 17. saying that he came not to destroy the lavve and the prophets but to fulfill them and Paul 1. Tim. 1. 18. giuing a commandement to Timothie which commandement is expressed what it is in the third fourth and fift verses of the same chapter doe not once speke of the churches lawes for outward direction as may appeare euidently to euery one that hath but a meane iudgement in the scriptures Ansvver Their pastor must be apt to teach no yong scholler able to diuide the word aright holding fast the faithfull word according to doctrine that he may be able also to exhort rebuke improue with wholesome doctrine and to conuince them that say against it he must be a man that loueth goodnes he must be wise righteoue holy temperate he must be of life vnreproueable as Gods steward he must be generally wel reported of and one that ruleth his owne householde vnder obedience with all honestie he must be modest humble meeke gentle and louing he must be a man of great patience compassion labour and diligence he must alwaies be carefull and watchfull ouer the flocke wherof the Lord hath made him ouerseer with all willingnes and cheerefulnes not holding his office in respect of persons but doing his duetie to euerie soule as he will answere before the chiefe shepheard c. Ansvvere In this descriptiō of the pastors office as the author hath set down some things therein required so hath he lefte other matters pertaining by his own doctrine thereunto altogether vntouched for whereas he telleth vs of an Eldershippe wherein the pastor is the chiefe here is nothing mentioned of this matter as if the ecclesiasticall censure remained as peculiar vnto the Elders Againe forasmuch as he requireth in a pastor that hee exhort rebuke and conuince the gayne-sayers of wholesome doctrine hee doth confirme herein that which hath ben said concerning the Doctor for either this functiō is not in the publik place of Gods worship or else it doeth intrude into the pastorall charge so these offices would not be seuered and diuerse Thirdly seeing modestie humilitie meeknes c. are necessarie in a Pastor Doctor Elder aud all we seee howe vnfitte these men are to beare anie office in the Church of God considering how farre they are from modestie meeknes or ciuill honestie when they call the ministerie of England traitors to Christ the Popes bastardes wicked guides Antichrists c. VVhen the booke of common praier is tearmed a peece of swines flesh and the people of Englande generally are accounted persecutors of the church of God no Christians Lastly we may obserue that some of these testimonies of Scripture in the margent are not so fit as might bee to proue the office of a pastor For Nu. 12. 3. doth speake of the meeknes of Moses but his was not a pastorall charge Esa. 50. 4. setteth foorth the Prophets diligence Zach. 7. 11. complaineth of the peoples obstinacie but what are these to proue the office of a pastor The place that is quoted 1. Tim. 2. 20. because it is somewhat after the end of the chapter it shall be answered when that verse is found Brownist Their Doctor or teacher must bee a man apt to teach able to diuide the word of God aright and to deliuer sound and wholsome doctrine frō the same still bulding vpon the same grounde worke he must be mightie in the Scriptures able to conuince the gainsaiers and carefully to deliuer his doctrine pure sound and plaine not vvith curiositie or affection but so that it may
edifie the most simple approuing it to euerie mans conscience he must be of life vnreproueable one that can gouerne his owne household he must be of manners sober temperate modest gentle and louing c. Answere In this description of a doctor here is nothing differing from that which hath bin in the description of a pastor For as there no mētion was made of any ecclesiastical iurisdiction so here it is also passed ouer in silence as if he had neuer said that the pastor and doctor were gouerning officers And as there he requireth of a pastor the diuiding of the worde of God aright and the approuing of it to euerie mans conscience so doth he heere require the same in a doctor and both alike in the iudgement of our author are to execute their office without any difference either of the place or of the matter or of the manner of dealing then the which what can be more fond if he speaketh the truth in saying that these offices are limited seuered and diuers And lastlie as in the description of a pastor the scriptures were abused so in this of a doctor they are not friendly handled For these-places 1. Tim. 3. Tit. 1. 2. Tim. 2. 15. haue bene alleaged before for the pastor who being an ouerseer of Christs flocke hath not bene denied the vse of the Scriptures to decypher out his calling but in bringing the same in again for a Doctor it appeareth that the store is now spent wherof there was no spare in the beginning of this Treatise Also these 1. Cor. 1. 17. 2. 4. doe shew what Paul did in his Apostleship but the office of a Doctor is a distinct matter from the office of an Apostle therefore altogether impertinent vnto this matter are these testimonies vsed by the author Their Elders must be of wisdome and iudgement endued with the spirite of God able to discerne betweene cause and cause betweene plea and plea and accordingly to preuent and redresse euils alwaies vigilant and intending to see the statutes ordinances and lawes of God kept in the church that not only by the people in obedience but to see the officers do their duties These men must be of life likewise vnreproueable gouerning their own families orderly they must be also of maners sober gentle modest louing temperate c. Ansvvere The third sorte of gouerning officers in the Church are by our author called Elders concerning which name howsoeuer Caluine reporteth that in churches of former times some had this title giuen vnto them who onely were conuersant in the censure of the church yet is it generally in the Scriptures ascribed vnto them that laboured in the worde and sacraments as appeareth Tit. 1. 5. Act. 14. 12. 20. 17. in other places And therupon Caluin saith Quod Episcopos presbyteros pastores ministros promiscue vocaui qui ecclesias regunt idfeciex scripturae vsu quae vocabulaista cōfundit In that I haue without making difference named Bishops and Elders and Pastors and Ministers I haue done it according to the practise of the Scripture which confoundeth these wordes And Ierome sayth Veteribus eos omnino fuisse presbyteros quos Episcopos VVith those of ancient times the same men were Elders which were Bishops Therfore it is not so directly from the word of God as in the title of this booke is promised but from the practise of some churches that he hath taken this name Elder to giue it vnto those which beare office without anie further dealing in the ministerie of the word As the name Elder in this place is not vsuall in the word so the office of an Elder as it is here described hath neither warrant of the worde nor yet of any church whether ancient or of latter daies I graunt that certain churches haue made choice of men which shoulde deale onely in the censures of the church whom they haue called Presbyteros Elders But the most that they haue euer required in such an Elder was that he should be sound in faith in life vnreproueable able to discerne of the dealings of euerie calling in the church careful to see rightly into the same and readie to ioyne in correcting with ecclesiastical censure those that are vndutifull beeing helpfull vnto the rest But that it shoulde belong vnto them to discerne betweene cause and cause betweene plea and plea c. It is a plaine pulling of the svvorde out of the magistrates hand They meane no such matter they saie for they graunt the magistrate his authoritie ouer the persons though not ouer the causes of men This it is whereas her Maiesty hath appointed Iudges in the land to end causes decide controuersies to giue sentence vpon malefactors and shirifes to see the execution of that vvhich the Iudges haue determined the seat of iudgement must be brought into the consistorie of these Elders and the office of the Shirife must be onely lefte in the hande of the magistrate to see the decrees of these auncients put in execution Now tell mee if these men do not goe beyond Corah his companie as before vvas said yet I will leaue the further consideration of these matters vnto those whom they doe concerne onely let vs see vvhat warrants they haue out of the worde of God for the largenesse of this their commission Num. 11. 24. maketh mention of three score and tenne men which were chosen by the appointment of God to bee assistants vnto Moses but these were temporall magistrates and not ecclesiasticall Againe it sayth not that Moses was discharged and the authoritie of iudging betweene plea and plea remayned in the power of these men onely As like to purpose is Act. 15. where there is neither anie such authoritie mentioned as aforesayd nor yet such an office as an vnministering Elder spoken of For the worde Elders in that place doeth signifie those that labour in vvord and doctrine as hath beene noted before As touching that of Paul 1. Tim. 5. 17. An Elder is worthie of double honour especially such as labour in the worde and doctrine From whence is collected that there were some Elders which did not labour in the word and doctrine I answere that there was a time as before was saide when such Elders were in the church but when they had their beginning how long they cōtinued how far their office extēded The author hath neither in this place nor els where shewed At the first they were not as by that hath bene shewed may appeare Afterward it should seeme that some such were appointed for the secret meetings of the faithful whiles they were vnder persecution but when the church increased and was dispersed into nations as now it is in England we reade not that such were continued in the Church nay the contrarie is flatly testified For as Ierome sayeth Idem est Presbyter qui est Episcopus antequam diaboli instinctu
vaine repetitions are not vsed by the Apostle But to go forward Brownist Their releeuers or widowes must bee women of sixtie yeeres of age at the least for auoiding of inconueniences they must be wel reported of for good workes such as haue nourished their children such as haue bene harberous to strangers diligēt seruiceable to the saincts compassionate and helpfull to them in aduersitie giuen to euerie good worke continuing in praiers and supplications night and day These must first be truelie proued then if they be found blamelesse administer c. Answere As concerning widowes we grant that they may be helpfull to the sicke but yet so burdensome vnto the rest that the reliefe of the poore whiles they are to bce maintained thereby shall be diminished so that they may more truly be called the relieued then relieuers Now for the necessitie of such in the church it is not proued out of Tim. 3. 10. nor yet out of anie place of Scripture else why For the L. knoweth the impossibility in hauing such in euery congregation in maintaining them the most that can be granted is that were the church possessed of such therwithall able to maintaine both them and these whome they were to attend vpon then would it be a great comfort to them all I spare to speake further of these only it may be obserued that the place cited to proue such an office in the church 1. Tim. 5. maketh nothing for it For Paule as the circumstanstances of the place doe shew speaketh of such as are to be succored by the church Honor widdows which are widdowes indeed that is which haue nede of helpe and so procedeth in shewing what they are which especially are to haue the relief of the church vz. such as by reson of their age and want of frends are not able to help themselues althogh in a godly affection they hate idlenesse but as for the yonger widdowes they are not to liue by the maintenance of the church least that idlenesse be maintained the mouthes of the enemies be opened against the truth the church be abused whiles the goods of the church be spent vppon those who make protestation that they haue no other comfort for to such only is the relief of the church to be giuen yet through the lust of youth do betake themselues to mariage again which thogh it be a matter lawfull in it self yet is it vnlawful to those that before God his church haue vowed the contrary and thus is this place expounded by Theophilact Ambrose Bullinger Claudius Guilliaud and others Thus haue we at the last the offices officers of a reformed church described so wel as our autor could of whom togither with his cōplices we may truly say as Adrianus spake on his death bed of his phisitions that they brought him to his end these reformers in their platforme here prescribed haue offred vs such a medicin that if the Church shoulde bee voide of sense and receiue it shee might in short time complaine that these her Phisitions had brought her to her end yet we must beleeue vpon paine of damnation that it is a good receit wherein they deale like vnskilful and vnconscionable Phisitions who promise a wonderfull cure rauishing the senses to conceiue much more to beholde what then to inioy so blessed a comfort and yet will minister that which will bee the bane of the patient Christ indeede hath shewed an outwarde gouernment vnto his church whereof although we are not capable partly by reason of mens insufficiencie to order it partly by meanes of the crookednes of the common sort who will not abide to be ordered by it but especially for that a whole nation cannot so easily be brought to that vniforme order as some one priuate congregation yet assuredly the neerer we come to this his ordinance the more heauenly is that harmonie and consent of ours And herein I will not staie in shewing how the laws of our Church of Englande haue prouided that in the congregations we should haue Pastors In the Vniuersities such as execute the office of doctors in bringing vp those in the knoledge of Gods word which may supplie the places that are void of teachers in the Churches in all places some to obserue the behauiors of men others to collect the reliefe of the poore c. because that I write not an Apologie for the Church of England onely I woulde haue men to see the gouernment of Brownisme what it is viz so far disagreing from the discipline of Christ that neither the frame of their building nor the builders themselues haue the approbation of Gods worde whereof they spake but in this their dealing are like vnto the Cuthits the rest who inhabiting Samaria falsely bragged that they were the children of Iacob and blindly deceiued thēselues with a false worship as may appeare by one of them I meane the woman of Samaria Iohn 4. For as the Lord had established his worship vppon mount Sion so one Manasses to aduance himselfe erected a temple vppon mount Gerazin the Iewes according to Gods appointment worshipped at Sion the Samaritans at Gerazin A cōtrouersie rose between them which of these people did best Christ sayth to the Samaritanes Yee worship ye wot not what yet they had a tēple a Priesthood and other ordinances which were kept at Ierusalem But who gaue Manasses authoritie to erect a temple assemble a people ordain c. These men came not so neere the discipline of Christ as the Samaritans did resemble the discipline at Ierusalem and Manasses being the sonne of the high Priest had as good a warrant for his proceedings as a priuate man might haue and yet his dealings were accursed Nowe when these mē faile both in this that they haue not authoritie to erect discipline and also if this were graunted in that they haue described a false gouernement we may not pronounce a blessing vppon them Brownist Now as the persons giftes conditions manners life and proofe of these officers is set downe by the holie Ghost so are their offices limited seuered and diuerse Answere VVee haue alreadie hearde both of the giftes and of the offices also of these seuerall callings for so our author doth confesse afterwardes Concerning which it is apparant that the Pastor and Doctor are so described as if there were no difference betweene them The Elder indeede is seuered from them both as if gouernment were peculiar vnto him alone and his commission is sette downe so large as if it were not limited The Deacons office may be diuerse from the rest but as yet we cannot finde it in that which he hath hetherto set downe VVe will therefore consider that which followeth For either to make his volume greater or to amende that which hath bene sayde hee fetcheth the matter about againe and notwithstanding hee hath told vs as he acknowledgeth what these offices are yet a good lesson cannot
then blotted out Cain Esau Corah yea and Israel it selfe Againe is it true that all those which are not vnder this gouernement are dogs c. I will not aske what shall become of these men themselues but what is become of Peter and the rest that remained with Christ and of all the churches of Ierusalem Ephesus Corinth and the rest which had not this gouernement and all these offices at any time among them for some wanted Deacons some widows some vnministring Elders some Doctors To draw to an end The scriptures that are alledged to proue these matters are either promises of that full redemption which is obtained and shall be perfited vnto the church in the day of Christs appearing as Esa. 52. 1. and 35. 8. and Reuelation 28. 27. or else are they types thereof as Eze. 44. and the ninth verse and Zacharie 14. 21. VVherefore they cannot proue the truth hereof in the visible church of God Also Reuel 22. 15. sheweth the estate of the vngodly which in the day of that generall search shall be thrust out of the presence of God VVhich matter Paul doth plainly shew Rom. 2. 9. for hee threatneth oppression and anguishe vnto euerie soule that doth euill whether Iew or Greeke that is whether of the visible Church or not In this one thing these men may be commended that seeing their assertions cannot bee warranted by the woorde of of God they will doe the best they can to make their sayings true in themselues For surely they coulde not possiblie giue ouer themselues vnto a doggish disposition as they do if they were not perswaded that in so dooing the conditions of men which haue cast off gouernement should in thē be made manifest vnto the world VVee are therefore to desire for them that discipline may be put in practise if happely they may bee brought to some good order Thus haue we seene how the Author of this Treatise hath failed in the perfourmance of his promise made in the title thereof A MANIFESTATION OF THE INCONSTANCIE of Brownisme grathered out of two Treatises lately dispersed throughout the land AThanasius speaking of the Eusebian hereticke saith that if once he tast the Arrian schisme he will neuer refraine his tongue from vngodlinesse He noteth it also as a common disease in all heretikes that they will be constant in a peeuish wilfulnesse least they should be condemned of those whom they haue seduced yet in all other things inconstant Nunc probantes quod dicunt mox vero vituperātes quod dixerunt ac rursum approbantes quod paulo ante calumniabantur It is no maruell therfore though the factioners of our age hauing auouched their owne dreames to be the truth of God do now cry out y t they are blasphemed abused slādered if the same be laid to their charge yet in discoursing vpon the self-same matters they wil not stick to iustifie their first conceipts al which may appeare to him that readeth the two pamphlets lately by them published the one intituled A collection of certaine slanderous Articles and the other A collection of certaine articles and conferences c. For in these bookes we shall finde the certaintie of doctrine what it is amongst conceited diuines And that the truth may be more euident I wil set downe first their Articles which sometimes they did hold and now are charged with Secondly the sore complaints that they make of being slandered with them by our Bishops Thirdly what small cause they haue to complaine considering that they are now resolute to defend the same Articles vnto the death And lastly the fondnesse of their assertions which for the auoiding of tediousnes shalbe done either by referring the Reader vnto those places where these matters are handled elsewhere or else by plaine and euident proofes The Articles which are so iniuriously imputed vnto them as they themselues haue published are these 1 THat it is not lavvfull to vse the Lords praier publikelie in the church for a set forme of praier 2 Secondlie that all set and stinted praiers are meere babling in the sight of the Lord not to be vsed in publike Christian assemblies 3 Thirdly that the publique praiers and vvorship of God in England as it is by lavv in the church of England established is false superstitious popish and not to be vsed in anie Christian congregation 4 That the Church of England as it is novv established is no entire member of the church of Christ. 5 That the gouernment of the church of England as it is novv established is no lavvfull gouernement nor christian but antichristian and popish 6 That the Sacraments of baptisme the Lords supper as they are administred in the church of England be not true sacraments 7 That infants ought not to be baptised according to the forme of baptisme ministred novv in the church of England but are rather to be kept vnbaptised 8 Manie of them make scruple to affirme that the Queenes maiestie hath supreame authoritie to gouerne the church of England in cases ecclesiasticall and to make lavves ecclesiasticall not contrarie to Christs lavves 9 That the lavves ecclesiasticall alreadie established by the authoritie of the queene realme be not lavvfull 10 That if the Prince or magistrate vnder her do refuse or defer to reforme such faults as are amisse in the church the people maie take the reforming of them into their ovvne hands before or vvithout her authoritie 11 That the presbiterie or eldership maie for some causes after admonition if there ensue not reformation excommunicate the Queene 12 That the Church of England as it novv standeth by lavv established professeth not a true Christ nor true religion that it hath no ministers in deed nor Sacraments in deed Now they complaine that they are much abused in being charged with these matters for the title of one of the Treatises is A collection of certaine slanderous articles giuen out by the bishops against such faithful Christians as they now vniustly detaine in their prisons c. The Epistle saith that there are spersed abroad throughout the land certaine articles of the bishops owne deuising against these men to bring them into hatred vvith the vvhole land The Author in answering the said Articles termeth them forged positions Again God forbid saith he that our Magistrates should be guiltie of our innocent blood by such slanderous reports To be short master Barrow as he himselfe reporteth complained to Doctor Androwes that he hath bene greeuouslie slandred blasphemed and accused by spearsed articles c. therefore a great fault there is in those which offer these persecuted Christians for so they terme themselues this great iniurie or else in them who if the Black-amore could change his hue would deny their owne opinions but if they giue the lie vnto vs without iust cause as it shall appeare that they do by that which followeth and maintaine these things which thus confidētly they haue denied
in crying out they are slandered then wil it also be cōfessed that they are not persecuted Christians but vnbridled factioners For these are no slanderous positions as they say forged against them by the bishops but phantasticall assertions first deuised and now againe confirmed by themselues as by their seuerall handling of the seuerall Articles they do shew To the first Article therefore they say that neither the Lords Prayer nor any other praier in the scriptures may be vsed but by explication Also that they serue onely for instruction Againe That the verie forme of words as they are in these petitions was giuen and instituted as a set and stinted prayer we finde not in the scriptures Also to vse it for a set prayer is say they a stinting of the holy Ghost Now if these assertions do not agree with the Article and testifie that they do hold it they haue the greater cause to complaine but I see no difference betwene the one the other Now the folly of this Article is manifest in this that the Lords prayer was giuen for the same end y e other prayers were in the canonicall scripture but other prayers were not for instruction as hath bin shewed before pag. 23. I need not make the conclusion And as touching their denying the forme of praier which Christ gaue to his disciples to be his praier because we reade not that he euer vsed it And their accusing vs to be falsifiers of the text when we call it the Lords Prayer If it were not a strife about words I would say more whereas now I wil onely put them in minde that we haue learned this phrase of the holy Ghost who calleth the prayers which God hath taught and doth approue his prayers as Esa. 56. 7. I vvil make them glad bebeth tepillati in the house of my prayer for there it is called the Lords prayer not for that he vsed it but because he prescribed it And why then may not we in like sort cal this the Lords praier in as much as he hath taught it but of this enough lest it be said of vs para men gar hemin esti logoma chia c To the 2. article they say that the canonicall praiers commended to vs by Gods spirite haue this onely vse that they serue for instruction And that our morning and euening praiers are not onely a babling but apocriphall and idolatrous c. So that neither canonicall nor other praiers that are prescribed are deemed lawfull to be vsed for praiers in the sight of the Lord. Whereby it is made manifest that they are not vniustly charged with this Article Which notwithstanding is but a false assertion considering that sette praiers were vsed vnder the lawe are not forbidden in the gospell and are also vsed in all reformed churches vntil this daie To the 3. article they saie that our liturgie is drawen out of the Popes portuise is not onely idolatrous superstious and a deuised worship but a bundle of infinite grosse blasphemous errours a Pseudodiathesis a counterfet gospell an idoll and huge Chaos of long gathered and patched absurdities a new gospel a masse booke and what not How then are they slandered when it is sayde that they account our worship of God as it is now established to be false superstitious and popish But the best is these calumniations are not greatly to be regarded for if they need not to be ashamed of learning the truth of Donatus who was a schismatical heretique wee haue as small cause to cast awaie good things though it could be proued as it is not that we had taken them from an heretike And though no worke of man and so not our booke of publike praier can be free from all blemishes the Lord reseruing this glorie to himselfe that hee will bee acknowledged perfectly wise and his workes onely voide of imperfection yet so farre is this booke from deseruing these great reproches that it beeing compared with the best treatise that these disturbers haue brought forth the most grosse and blasphemous error which they cā proue therin may be iustified in cōparison of many that are deliuered for sound doctrine in their pamphlets if both of thē be right vnderstood To the 4. they say that it being subiect to the vvorship aforesaid cōsisting of al sorts of vnclen spirits atheists papists heretikes c. it is not a true mēber of the bodie of Christ. It is not thē blasphemy to charge thē with this 4. article And whether they haue cause to hold it vppon this ground or not shal be euident hereafter To the fifth article It is euident to al men saie they and confessed of our enimies that the ministers laws and other ordinances whereby the parish assemblies are gouerned are not such as Christ appointed to his church of pastor c. but by such officers courts and canons as are hatched from Rome Do they not then iustifie this article wherin as in others they cōplaine they are slandered yet in as much as they are constāt in it let thē proue by the word of God both their discipline to be good also our gouernmēt to be Antichristian which they will hardlie afford considering that before the time of papacy there were these offices in the church which these men terme Antichrististian as M. Caluin testifieth Inst. li. 5. ca. 4. se. 4. whose authoritie I vse with these men because I finde that they themselues haue alleaged the same To the 6. article they saie that vve neither hauing a lavvfull ministerie nor faithfull holie free people c. the sacraments in our assemblies deliuered are no true sacraments nor seales vvith promise How thē can these men without blushing put this article in the nūber of forged positiōs for cōsidering that they make their iudgments knowen concerning this point I maruell more they are not ashamed to denie it then I do that some of them Donatist like haue desired to be baptised again The answer to this wilbe easie by that which foloweth in the answer to the 3 brāch of the 5. argumēt To the seauenth they say that no godlie Christians separate from the false church ought to bring their infants to these parish assemblies to bee baptised into that fellovvship and profession c. These wordes do iustifie our Bishops in charging these men with this article The substance whereof seeing it doth depend vpon the former article the follies of it being perceaued the want of wisedom in this will soone be descried To the eight they say that all true christians vvithin her maiestie dominions acknovvledge her Maiestie to be the supreame magistrate and gouernes ouer all persons within the church and without the church yea ouer all causes ecclesiasticall and ciuill Which assertion if it had bene receiued of the whole sect then it had bene a slander in deed but in as much as in an assembly of aboue twentie persons it was concluded that her Maiestie is
highest to the lowest were infidels and pagans without God without the knowledge of his word without conscience in any thing without the feare of God This is the meeknesse of an arrogant spirit The bull sent by Pope Pius the fift to cursse her Maieiestie the land was not vnlike vnto it the calumniation is the same in both and therefore master Iewell hath framed an answere meete for both Now as touching our ministery which is set as the third argument of our disobedience the defects therof are noted to be either in their election or in their subiection to a false gouernement Their election and ordination say they are not by the Lords holy and free people This hath bene answered pag. 45. Also they are made in nubibus say they but if these factioners had not made their owne ministers in tenebris they might with lesse impudencie haue blamed the making of ours Besides they say that at her maiesties entrance vnto the crowne our ministers were set ouer the people without an outvvard calling Wherein I will not oppose the ministerie of Luther and Caluin whose ministerie they cannot deny to be warrantable pag. 53. of their booke and yet they had not a better calling then our men had but I dare auouch the calling of our men vnto the ministerie at the entring in of her maiestie vnto the crowne to be the selfe same that euen our aduersaries haue warranted pag. 59. of the aforesaid treatise viz. the magistrate did send them to instruct the vnbeleeuers but say they they vvere no ministers vnto them Then let them tell vs what other ministerie this might be and what warrant they haue for it in the word or else they giue vs iust cause to complaine that they are filled with conceites Now the gouernement vnder the which they execute their ministerie is such that master Caluin acknowledgeth the antiquitie thereof to be great and saith that it was in vse before the time of Papacie and the vse thereof to be good viz. ad disciplinae conseruationem for the vpholding of discipline and for the auoyding of confusion But master Barrow saith that the Queene and Parliament do vvickedly in giuing this authoritie vnto the Bishops vvhich they haue committed vnto them the same is published by his owne procurement vnto the view of all men who reading it and considering of it may see the dealings of master Barrow I say no more But to make an end with this Argument notwithstanding all the exceptions afore said the Church of England acknowledgeth Christ as their Prophet and for conscience sake doth reuerence gods word taught by the ministerie thereof from the which who so turneth away his eare euen his prayers are abhominable Pro. 28. 9. And also the sacraments deliuered by them considering that God hath ioyned them as seales vnto his word whereof hath bene spoken pag. 27. Brownist Their people are not knit togither as members ech of other in one congregation but both roue and goe assemble depart at their pleasure when they will vvhether they vvill and as they vvil themselues as also liue in continual disorder Ansvvere The Argument is this The true church is ioyned togither as members of one bodie but the church of England is not but doth roue and go c. Therefore c. In the proposition I finde these absurdlties first that the visible church is tyed to be all of one assemblie or congregation in which respect the diuision of our church into seuerall parishes is an eye-sore vnto them Secondly that the inordinate proceedings of some in the church should proue a nullitie of the church as if the losse or vnsoundnesse of a member could take away the esse from the bodie Thirdly that the spiritual vnion of the mēber in the whole church is so required in euerie seuerall assemblie as if it were as great a sin for a man to depart from one assemblie vnto another as to dismember himselfe altogither from the whole bodie which is the church Al which are so grosse that a censurer doth better become them then a confuter As for our church the disorders therein are too many yet were they exceeding and intollerable if they were so generall as this accuser thereof hath auouched viz. amongst all men at all times and in all their actions but an Orator can doe much in perswading and a slanderer will do more in abusing Brownist Their parishes are not ordered gouerned by such officers as Christ hath appointed to his church haue no true pastors teachers elders deacons releeuers but in stead of these they remaine most seruilely subiect to the Antichristian gouernement of their Popishe Archbishops Bishops Chancellors Archdeacons Deacons Commissaries Doctors proctors aduocats notaries registers pursuiuants cursitors summoners c. and from the Apostolicall seat of the Bishops they receaue an Antichristian and a false ministery as their parsons vicars curats hirelings lecturers mercenary preachers c. vvhich together vvith this people stande bounde and subiect to these bishops and their popish courtes of high commission of faculties of arches of prerogatiue of delegates of their commissaries c. Therefore c. Ansvvere The argument is this The true church is ordered by such officers and and lawes as Christ in his last wil and testament hath thereunto ordained But the church of England is not ordered thus Therefore c. The first argument hath beene infringed pag. 25. where it was proued that outwarde discipline is not the life of the church also pag. 26. 70. where it was shewed that doctors widdows were not necessarie in euery congregation Wherunto I adde this that although a gouernement by elders c. was established in some churches in the Apostles times yet as pag. 62. hath beene said it remaineth as yet vnproued that this gouernement is to remaine vnchangeable in all ages they tell vs that Christ was as faithfull in his house as Moses was I grant it yea and more faithfull Therfore say they he hath set downe an outward gouernement as well as Moses did This also will I grant thē yet remaineth a third matter viz. that the Brownistes cast their heades together againe and describe this gouernement better then as yet they haue done and proue out of Gods word not onely what it is but that it is necessarily to be had in al ages alike yea and that the want of it doth conuince a people to be no true church vnto God All which being once performed their proposition shall be granted The second part of this argument is confirmed by these foure circumstances that wee haue no true pastors whereof hath bene spoken very oft Secondly that the gouernement by Archbishops c. is antichristian A matter answered pag. 110. but in affirming our gouernement to be in the power of proctors aduocates notaries registers pursuiuants summoners c. whom these euill tongued men doe know to haue no authority in hearing of causes giuing sentence bewraieth
the corruptioÌ„ of their harts Thirdly that our ministery is antichristian a matter handled pag. 125. the scurrilitie in calling them hirelings mercenary preachers c. deserueth no answer the names of parson vicar c. doth not make a difference in the ministery but in their maintenance Fourthly we are subiect to the popish courtes as high commission c. wherunto I answer that al these courts haue their authority from her maiesty though some of theÌ„ more directly then the other In consideration wherof to call the lest antichristian is arrogant but to ioine theÌ„ all in one sentence to disswade her maiesties subiects froÌ„ yeelding obedience vnto any of theÌ„ it will be found an act of no good subiect yet for mine owne parte I purpose not to giue iudgement in the matter I leaue it to such as are acquainted with the law onely I will propound the case which is this The high court of Parlement hath agreed that the queene her hignes successors kings queenes of this realme shall haue full power by letters pattents vnder the great seale to name and authorise when as often and for so long time as her highnes her heires or successors shall thinke meete such person or persons as she or they shal thinke meet to execute vnder her c. all manner iurisdictions priuileges and preheminences in any wise concerning any spirituall iurisdiction within England and Ireland c. 1. Eliz. 1. Now her maiestie by the authoritie aforesaid hath graunted her letters pattentes vnder the great seale for the two courts of high commission and delegates And by the said authority first from the Parlement and then from her maiestie these two courtes doe stande and not by any other right or authoritie whatsoeuer yet these two courts of high commission and of delegates are here tearmed popishe and antichristian courts and the people are condemned to be antichristian which yeelde obedience vnto them This therefore is the case Whether it toucheth her maiesty or not that libels railing vpon and calling her highnes authority which is warranted by her broad seale popish antichristian c. Brownist These assemblies are not ruled by the old and new testament but by the canons iniunctions and decrees of those antichristian and popish courts therefore c. Ansvvere The Argument is this The true church is ruled by the old and new testament but the church of Englande is not c. Therefore c. If Christ hath in his last will set down a perfect gouernment for his church as they say he hath there is little vse of the olde Testament for direction of discipline vnder the Gospell But this Argument being in effect the same with the former needeth no other answere then it had Brownist These people stand not in for their Christian libertie but all of them remaine in bondage to these Aegyptian and Babylonishe yoakes yeelding obedience vnto these courts and their canons Therefore c. Ansvvere The Argument is this All and euerie of the true Church stand in and for their christian libertie to practise whatsoeuer God hath commanded them c. But in the church of England they stande not for their christian libertie Therefore c. Ansvvere We haue seene pag. 49. 50. that the priuate man doth passe the bondes of his calling in presuming to deale with publike reformation Againe it was sayde pag. 45. that in the visible church it doth not alwaies fall out that euerie member hath that freedom which is requisite in the performance of their christian dueties of his calling The proposition therefore is false As for the assumption in differing nothing from the three former it doth commend the greate facilitie of the author who in resoning in so smal varietie of matter is able to frame so greate a change of argumentes which yet being considered of doe appeare all one in effect Brownist These assemblies haue not the povver vvhich Christ hath giuen vnto his church vnto the vvorlds end al the povvers of earth and hell cannot take from them viz. to binde and loose and to reforme things that are amisse but are driuen to the Commissarie courtes Therefore c. Ansvvere The Argument is this The true church hath power to execute the censures of the church but the church of Englande hath not Therefore c. The proposition faileth for the true church is sometimes without outward gouernement whereof read pag. 25. and so consequently without the power which this man speaketh off for I know he will not restraine this power of binding and loosing though he might vnto the ministerie of the word whereof notwithstanding Christ speaketh Ioh. 20. 23. saying Whose sinnes soeuer ye remit they are remitted and whose sinnes ye retaine they are retained As for the assumption it is most vntrue for we haue not onely the power of Gods word which he hath giuen vnto his ministerie to bind and to loose therby but also the censures of the church in respect of outward gouernement I grant that euerie seuerall congregation hath not this power and I dare affirme that in no age it can be proued that euery seuerall congregation had this authoritie but euen in those churches which had an Eldership the same was not in euery assemblie but diuerse congregations were ordered by one senyorie therefore to say that because euerie priuate congregation hath not this power therefore it is not at all in the church is a childish kind of reasoning Brownist These assemblies cast out sathan by the power of sathan namely by these Imps of Antichrist the Bishops commissaries and priests Therfore they are not and for all their reasons seuerall and ioyned cannot be held in any Christian iudgement the true church of Christ. Answere In this last Argument is granted vnto vs that which before was denied viz. that our church hath power of casting out but it faileth in the manner for if they say true this power is not from Christ but from the imps of Antichrist c. vnto which accusation I answere the end wherefore men are cast out from amongst vs by the doctrine of our church should be that the offender by being depriued of the seales of the couenant might be brought vnto repentance Now for the ordering hereof the people are not in the weightie matters of the church to haue their voice pag. 47. c. And a presbyterie in euery congregation cannot be had pag. â—8 therfore neither election ordination excommunication nor other censures of the Church are to be committed to euerie particular congregation As for this vnchristian dealing in condemning for Antichristian whatsoeuer is not according to their humour it hath bene often answered Some defectes there are in our gouernment we challenge no perfection some corruption there is oftentimes in such as haue the ordering of it I defend not all But in this I would be resolued if wee by the power of Satan cast out Satan by what power do they cast out