neither if any manne should ryse from death would they beleue him Or howe did they which had the writings of the Apostles onely when neyther bookes nor commentaries were written of thesame But whereas my Lord Cardinall woulde haue that taken for an Apostolike tradition whiche hathe bene receiued of the church at al times in all places and of al men I see not howe these iii. pointes maie be proued For how great diuersitie shal we find in the bookes of auncient fathers yea and euen in the verye articles of oure faith If these wordes should be weyed at all tymes and of all men wher shall we beginn but at the Apostolike church Who shall be firste in order but onely the Apostles Whose liues and doings are partly faithfully written by Luke and partly gathered out of their owne writinges To be shorte we returne at the last to the first foundatiō of the scriptures sith all truthe came from god who cōmaunded the prophets and Apostles to bee interpreters messengers of oure saluation In the meane time we dooe not reiecte the councels of the fathers as farre as they be confirmed with the testimonies of the holye scripture For them as Austine sayeth the holy◅ ghost hath so tempered that it which◅ in some place is obscurely spoken in some other is expressed more plainlye and more at large And that rule chiefly amonges others he geueth whereb◅ we may vnderstande the scriptures i◅ that booke whiche he wrote of christia◅ doctrine yet there remaineth som◅ doubt in this question Some mē hau◅ thought that the will of God in these thinges whiche pertaine to oure saluation is not fullye declared in those writinges whiche the Prophetes and Apostles haue lefte vnto vs. Whiche doubte if it should take any place what a gap wer ther opened to all mischefe And certes this was the breache by the which Sathan first pearced into the vine yard of the lord to destroy it God truely before the tune of Moyses with visiōs reuelatiōs directed his church in like maner yeapostles before thei put theyr doctrine in writīg taught yesame by worde of mouth But because the nūber of men encreasing their noughtynesse encreased also the lorde would y◠this doctrine shoulde bee contayned in writinges and monumentes Whiche might be vnderstoode and perceiued of al men why so that he might confoūd the impudence and rashnesse of suche as wil set foorth cloke their dreames with the name of tradition reuelation and custome But if the doctrine of god be written onely in some part to what purpose is this remedy Truely it can not be so Iohn spake of the scriptures when he sayeth that those things which are written are written to that ende that we beleuing them may haue life euerlasting Iohn xx ◅ ◅xi whiche he had falslye sayde yf thei themselues had concealed any doctrine necessary to life and saluation But Paule when he declareth the vse of scripture vnder the person of Tymothe teacheth all ministers yf anye thing should haue ben added to the scriptures wuld not haue affirmed that by them the man of god is made perfecte i. Timo. ii d. xvi Neither do we denye but y◠at all times there haue ben somtraditions of the apostles which be not written But those were suche as pertained to the ciuil order of the churche But forasmuche as many men haue abused this name this great while I thinke good to shewe what traditions ought to bee counted Apostolike Whiche shall not be hard yf in iudgyng and discernyng them we vse the markes For fyrst we must consyder whether they doe agree with the doctryne of the woorde and then whether they bee apte and meete to edify◅ For it is certayne that the Apostles dyd neuer institute any rites and ordinaunces whiche eyther directly or els in anye parte were contrarye to theyr owne doctryne or myghte withdrawe menne from spirituall worshippyng whereof theyr owne wrytynges beare sufficiente recorde If thys rule be obserued bothe doctrine shall easilye be discerned frō traditions also false traditions frō the true Neyther are you ignorant how foolishe Tertullian iudgeth their opinions which think that the apostles haue ouerpassed an◅thīg necessary to saluatiō which ether by word of mouth or writīgs thei haue not taught but we will adde more hereto Namely that those things which herein the Apostles decreed were not continuall Truelye their instytutions passe all exception yet neuerthelesse by the rule of charitye they yelded somewhat to the weaknes of men As when the eating of suffocatorū and bloud was forbid the Iewes Also those thynges which Paule himselfe taught and obserued in Timothe and his own persō Ac. 15. f. 25. Act. 16. a. ◠i Co. 16. d. xxix i Co. 11. a 7 Which now truly shuld haue no place but by the generall rule of charitye whereby we are willed in things indifferēt to apply our selues to our neighbours Other such like may be gathered of their rytes as of kissing vncouering the head which was the signe of authority and other such lyke whiche at this daye are contrarye to y◠customes of many nations amōg whō it would seme most folish the men should kisse the one the other to talke with the heade vncouered is commonly a signe of y◠lowest state and condicion These thinges therefore ought to be considered before anye custome be thought Apostolyke Also no man must grounde vppon the authority of the Apostles to trouble the church As it hapned in the cōtrouersye of the daye in the which Easter should be kept whiche bred miserable deuision and euē in the Apostles tyme by those that did abuse the authoritie of the churche at Ierusalē to myngle Iewishnesse wyth Christian religion Of whom it is writen in the Actes of the Apostles where it was decreed by a councell that no man should lay that yoke on mennes cōsciēces Wherby it may easely be perceiued that the Apostles could not be the authoures of so many ceremonies to the which afterwardes Satisfaction merites and remission of sinnes wer attributed For they taught far otherwise And so much they dissented from makyng newe ceremonies that they gaue no place to those of Moses lawe of the whiche God was the author Of thys yoke of traditions obseruances Austine long since writing to Ianuarius much cōplained if he had liued in our tyme how would he haue lamented thē Wherfore to be shorte we desyre that the Scripture whiche herein is playne maye iudge good traditions frō euil holy from prophane profitable frō hurtful necessarye frō superfluous When of these articles we are once agreed this question shall easily be dissolued whether the authoritie of the church be greater thā of the woorde of god which certes is no lesse fonde than if a man should doubte whether the sōn ought to be aboue his father the wife aboue her husbande or man aboue god And sure neuer the true church or any godly mā woulde moue such
for the layiÌ„g on of haÌ„ds but to proue himself an apostle he did not so much cite his miracles of the which he had great store as yâ— fruite of his preachyng the coÌ„uersioÌ„ of those people whoÌ„ the lord had turned at his calling For writing to the CorinthiaÌ„s he saith You are the seale of my apostleship in that lord Cor. ix Thesame truely say of so gret a nuÌ„ber as by our preching haue receued the gospel agaiÌ„st al the power of maÌ„ nether seke we any other coÌ„firmatioÌ„ of our calling ministery For the power vertue of god hath sufficieÌ„tly shewed it self forasmuch as nether prysoÌ„ fier banishmeÌ„t nor death could stay yesame But quoth SpeÌ„sa shew me but eueÌ„ one example wtin these .xv. C. yeares like to your case Although quoth Beza al hystories are not writteÌ„ yet I donbie not but there may be fouÌ„d som But if ther be none it is no incoÌ„uenience to say that god in our daies hath done yâ— which he neuer did afore Afterwards we cam to traditioÌ„s which SpeÌ„sa made equal with that scripture â—…aÌ„tus preferred aboue it as more certain thaÌ„ it But to the place of Paul which reuoketh vs to yâ— scripturs SpeÌ„sa aÌ„swerd that Paul speketh generally of doctrine Which forth w e was aÌ„swered not of vs only but of an other singularly wel learned maÌ„ which was there preseÌ„t that it is writeÌ„ ther 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Moreouer we said it was new straÌ„ge that XaÌ„tus wold haue the traditioÌ„s more certain thaÌ„ the scripture for yâ— by reasoÌ„ of many interpretatioÌ„s may be vncertayne For what fouÌ„datioÌ„ shal our faith haue if we doubt of it neither is it therefore incertain bicause many times meÌ„ misapply it mangle it abuse it For the truthe abides alway one which though it be somtymes darkned yet continueth her force euen to the last Neither bicause heretikes abuse it ought we therefore the lesse to fly to it What wroÌ„g he doth vs in coÌ„paring of Anabaptistes other diuelish sectes our writings wel testify They admit onely som part of the Scriptures We accept allow the whole they credit new reuelations We say that suche thynges are out of place sithe Christe hath manifested al things fully vnto vs. As to the place of TertulliaÌ„ wherof â—…antus warned Beza twice or thrice to read it I quoth Beza haue read it more than xx tymes am so well assured that you shall finde it as I saye as I perfectly know that you shal neuer finde in Chrisostom that which you in his name haue falsely alleged But do not deny that Tertullian did manye tymes passe his bondes Neuerthelesse if we coÌ„sider towhat ende he spake it you shal perceiue how lightly this which you thynke to make so much with you shal be answered For this was his purpose that we should not in vaine reason with heretikes As Paule couÌ„saileth vs after the first or seconde admonition to leaue them But what maner of heretikes were those Suche as beig conuicted of their heresy by the worde of god tryfled in vayne What were the traditions whiche he layde against them Such as are conteyned in the writinges of the Apostles and pertayn to the chiefe articles of our fayth and which the whole church professed Fyrst therfore we should haue ben coÌ„uicted by the same worde that if we be in any erroure we might thereby bee withdrawen from it But to bee confuted by tradition whiche is neither Apostolical nor yet grounded on their writings that truely is asmuch as to opeÌ„ the gate to all deceite and vtterly to ouerturne the certaintye of oure faith But why doth Tertullian himself vpbrayde the heretikes saying Let them beleue the scriptures if they can do it beleuig agaynst the scriptures except we ought to flye to them and by them confute all errors If these rytes whyche at thys daye our aduersaries haue brought in were Apostolike the churche would alwayes haue vsed them Neither should they haue had so late beginning Now forasmuche as the authors of them are wel knoweÌ„ described in histories certainly it cannot be said that they came first froÌ„ the Apostles Falsly also is the name of traditions refrained to those things which are deliuered froÌ„ hande to hande in as muche as this woorde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is referred eueÌ„ to those things that are writen TertulliaÌ„ refuteth those that taught that the apostles had not sufficiently instructed vs in al things that thei might leaue a place for new traditioÌ„s as things reuealed by the holy gost Thei are woÌ„t to say quoth he that the apostles knew al but neuertheles put not al in writing In both pointes blaming christ as though he had either insufficieÌ„tly instructed his apostles or els had choseÌ„ such simple meÌ„ as were not able to vtter their mindes in writing For what sober maÌ„ would beleue that the apostles wer ignoraÌ„t in any thing whoÌ„ the lord appointed as maisters â–ª c. To the Apostles therfore we must fly whoÌ„ christ seÌ„t to preach But how shall we be assured of their doctrine but by their wrytings Was not vnctioÌ„ geueÌ„ vnto theÌ„ for this cause that they might deliuer and write vnto vs al things necessarye for our saluatioÌ„ not to leaue vs douting or vncertain And herby is that place of Chrisostom easily discussed which was earst aleged where he saith that Christ left nothing in writing to his apostles Wuld he therfore that thei shuld write nothing No sure But therfore he taught them therfore he reueled it vnto them by his spirit that the same doctrine once written might remain for euer But thei taught somâ—…things which are not coÌ„tained in their writings Neither that truely do we deny But we saie that there is nothing pertaining to our saluation Whyche they haue not left in writing other thiges which coÌ„cerne rites ciuill dyscypline they might easily teach by worde of mouth But because yesame chaunge according to time place they woulde not buâ—… then our consciences therwith As to the obiection of the names of vnbegotten consubstaÌ„tiality trinity baptisme of children although the playne names wordes be not in the scriptures yet the thinges themselues that is to wit the sence and grounde Whereof the names are gathered is playnelye expressed and shewed in the scripture These thinges were long debated and sometymes the talke interrupted Xantus spake muche and affirmed a great while that the virginitie of Mary after her deliuerance coulde not bee proued by the scriptures Neither yet that yong children ought to be baptised Neuerthelesse bothe were proued by the authoritie of the scripture But he ceassed not to bable after the maner of the Sorbonistes as though he shoulde wynne the victorie with triflyng and talking His talke litle liked so honorable anaudience as it that was full of bitternes sharpenesse and stomake Our men in the meane tune modestly stayd themselues And albeit manye of our aduersaries spake at once confusedly
a doubt but wil willingly submyt himself to her iudgemeÌ„t Nether doth it make agaiÌ„st vs that the church was afore the word For it is most certain that the word which afterwards was put in writing is much more auncient For by it was the church coÌ„ceued born bred But this saying of Austine is not to bee obâ—…ected that he wuld not beleue the scripture vnlesse the autoritie of the scripture moued him therto But we must vnderstand yâ— in that place Austine spake of himself as of a Maniche w e whose erroure he was once seduced I pray you if ther rise ani doubt of the truth of any writing to whoÌ„ go we to trie it but to yâ— coÌ„moÌ„ notary to whose custody al writiÌ„gs monumeÌ„ts are coÌ„mitted Neyther therfore doth it folow that the autority of the writyng depeÌ„deth on the witnes of the notarye For of it self it is true though no mortal maÌ„ beare witnesse hereof So truely must we answer theÌ„ which thynk yâ— the authoritie of the holy scripture dependeth vpoÌ„ the coÌ„stitutioÌ„s decrees of the church The decrees of of that couÌ„cels are manye tymes coÌ„trary in this question But all these things shal be more fullye opened in disputation consereÌ„ce I wil shewe only reason confirmed with the autority of certayn auncient allowed fathers Christ himself gaue so much authority to the doctrine of the prophets whom he had sent afore that by theyr witnesse he would confirme his doctrine Paul also suffred the ThessaloniaÌ„s so to do willed theÌ„ to searche the scriptures to know whether he had taught theÌ„ truly Ac. xvii c. xi Peter allowed that selfesame reason ii Peter ii d. xix They therfore which boast theÌ„selnes to be the vicars of Christ the successors of Peter Paule ought not to refuse yesame coÌ„ditioÌ„ Ca. ix li. ii Truely Ierome vpoÌ„ Hieremy sayth that nether the error of the fathers nor of our auncesters by the authority of the Scriptures is to be folowed ChrisoftoÌ„ vpon the .xxiiii. Chapter of Mathew the 49. Homelye erpounding thys place Those that be in Iury let them flye to the mouÌ„taynes sayeth that is those that be Christians let theÌ„ flye to the Scriptures And again Wherefore doth he in this tyme wil al Christians to fly to the Scriptures Bicause in thys tyme since heresy inuaded the churche there can be no other proofe of true Christendome neither any other refuge for Christians minding to knowe the true fayth but the diuine Scriptures For afore it appeared by many signes which was the church of Christ and whiche it of the Gentiles But now whosoeuer wil seke it can by no other meanes discerne which is the true church of Christe but onely by the Scriptures Also he saieth further If a maÌ„ therfore be wylling to knowe the true church of Christ howe should he know it in so great coÌ„fusyon but only by the Scriptures Yet further therfore the lord knowiÌ„g that ther shuld be so great coÌ„fusioÌ„ in the latter dayes therfore doth Christ coÌ„mauÌ„d the those that be in christianitye such as be willing to streÌ„gtheÌ„ theÌ„selues in 〈◊〉 faith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…o other thing but the Scriptures Otherwise if they â—…pâ—…e any other changes they shal likely â—… 〈◊〉 â—…sh not vnderstaÌ„ding which is the true châ—…rch and so shal they faâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of defolatioÌ„ which 〈◊〉 yâ— holy places of the churche 〈◊〉 in his moralls writeth thus If whatsoeuer is not of faith is sinne as the Apostle â—…ayth and faith commeth by hearing and hearing by the worde of God whatsoeuer is besides Scripture inspired of God is â—…n Also in the Sermon of the confession of faith If God be faithful in al his words and hys commaundementes â—…me and stable for euer done in truth iustice to reiect any thing that is written or to bring in any thing not written is a sweruing from fayth manifest pride Thus much was spoken of the churche her signes authority and succession afore the Lordes and Bishops and diuerse other which heard thesame very attentiuely But bicause hys oration had bin already somewhat loÌ„g it semed good then to entreate nothing of the supper Wherfore Beza medestly excusyng hymself declaryng also that we wer ready to shew a reason of that article and as much as lay in vs to satisfy theÌ„ if they would commaund vs forthwith to doe it When Beza had ended the Cardynal beckned to Spensa to speak and to answere our reasons He protestyng with many woordes that he had long wyshed for this coÌ„ference disputatioÌ„ that he neuer lyked alwaies contrary to those cruel punishmeÌ„ts which had loÌ„g tymes bene vsed toward them answered that those thinges were true which we had sayd of the churche her sygnes and succession If we had so taught and spoken at the first we should neuer haue neded to haue come to this controuersy But whereas we spake of the callyng into the churche he muche maruelled by whose authoritye or by what callyng we entred into the churche and toke vpon vs to teache Forasmuch as we wer not instituted by any ordinaryes neyther they at any tyme had layd theyr handes vpon vs. And hereof he gathered yâ— we wer no good pastors For by ordinary meanes quoth he you wer not called and muche lesse by extraordinary For extraordinarye vocation must bee proued eyther by miracles as the callyng of Moses was who was raysed vp of God to delyuer his people or els by the witnesse of the scripture as the callyng of Iohn whose vocation is plainlye proued by a terte of Malachye you want bothe Whereof it foloweth that youre ministerye is vnlawfull But as concernyng tradytions and the interpretyng of the scryptures yf there ryse any controuersye we ought to referre it quothe he to the ordinary successours as those to whoÌ„ the holy ghost is promised and are appoynted of God for the same cause He brought foorth the exaumples of the olde Priestes and Leuites whiche in tymes paste in doubtful matters gaue the people couÌ„cel to whose iudgemente the people were so bounde to stande that from theyr decree it was not lawfull for them to swarue neyther on the ryghte hande neyther yet on the left And that we had many thinges by tradition whiche no manne doubtes of no not we oure selues As yâ— the father is without beginnyng the son equall in substance to him also that yong children ought to be Baptised that Mary was a virgin after her deliuerance such lyke So he affirmed that those thinges which are descended vnto vs from the auncient fathers albeit they bee not written yet are certainelye to be beleued and no lesse to be allowed than if they were confirmed by the authority of the Scriptures That whatsoeuer is decreed by generall councels is certain and that they can not erre in doctrine But as to that which is cyted out of Austine that the first counsels ar amended by the later that he said neuer
A TRVE report of all the doynges at the assembly cōcernyng matters of Religion lately holden at Poyssy in Fraunce Written in Latine by Mayster Nicholas Gallasius minister of the Frenche Churche in London and then present one of the disputers in thesame trāslated into English by I. D. ◠Seen and allowed accordyng to the order appoynted by the Queenes Maiesties iniunctions ¶ To the ryghte honorable the Lord Frauncis Russel Earle of Bedford and one of the Queenes Maiesties priuye councell Nicholas Gallasius IMmediatly after my retourne into thys Realme ryghte honourable I thought nothyng more requisite than to shewe the cause of my lōg pylgrymage That bothe all menne maye vnderstande why I haue bene so long absente from my churche and also what was the ende of that assemblye where I was and eke what fruite I reaped of my trauayle therein For I vnderstande that sondrye rumours haue bene spred thereof and that manye haue easilye perswaded themselues that whiche they most desired So that in these oure tymes I fynde it most true which long synce was spoken Namely that the people iudgeth and now measure most thyngs accordyng to there owne opynion and very fewe accordyng to the truth Whiche foolyshe iudgements to withstand I counted it paine well spence not onely by word of mouth to certifie my frēdes and familyers but also to put in writting to the sight and reading of al mē the late doinges betwixt vs and the prelates at Poyssye Whiche as symply playnelye so I protest to doe truly and faythfullye As they themselues which were presēte at the doynge therof can witnesse Great sure was the expectacion of this assemblye and cōference And not with out cause For neuer hereto fore in Fraunce were we quyetlye heard or admitted to the defence of our cause but rather without cause condēned banyshed and imprysoned Now therefore it was no maruell yf with thys straūge and sodayn chaūce mens myndes were in greate expectacion had conceyued good hope Especiallye forasmuche as the truthe shyneth of itselfe waxeth so much y◠more mighty as men with greate force and suttelty assay to suppresse it But they must not thynke that we were heard of them which were dryuen thereto for the most part agaynst there willes altogether enforced thereto by the necessirye of common commaundemente For they woulde alwayes either haue vs put to sylence oure mouthes stopped or els referred to there greate God at Trent only necessitye therefore made vs audience Bycause no otherwise the feare of imminent peryls could be repressed nor they thēselues which hate vs most haue prouided for their own quietnes Wherfore al be it they fayned that they were wiling to come to cōference yet they cōtinued with vs only so long as they hoped in the meane tyme they myght well content the Kynge and the nobles and appease the cōmons For to leaue of the seueral discourse al theyr doinges generally but chiefly their departure whereby they brake the conference sufficiētly disclosed what their purpose was Whiche if we consider certainly we shall maruell that we dyd so often come to talke and wer suffred so long to pleade our cause But wtout respecting the councels or iudgements of men we must weye the prouidēce of God wherby he preuenteth al perilles and geueth a happy and lucky ende to doubtfull beginninges For god which neuer faileth those that are his hathe farre exceded our hope and expectatiō For who thought that albeit we wer sent for yet many beyng vnwilling some striuing against it we should be heard at all who sawe not a thousande wyles prepared for vs wherby we myghte eyther be put to death or silence After that we weronce heard with the great grudge of all the bishops who wuld haue hoped for the seconde or third meetyng Who thought not that we were led as prysoners to pleade oure cause And where as moste vniuste condityons were offered vs whereby the Byshops mynded to shame vs and win themselues a glorious victory who thought not that we woulde streyght haue broken of and hauing so good occasyon offered vnto vs woulde foorthwith reasse from conference Yet we chose rather to abyde al perilles yea and to muche wrong rather than we woulde geue any occasyon to breake of y◠conference We gaue vp a confession of oure fayth that is to say of all the churches in Fraunce that professe the ghospell To maintain and defends thesame we wer alwayes readie Or if the bishops would haue shewed forth any of theirs we promised oftē to conferre therof to confute it if ther were in it any thyng not agreable to the woorde of God But we coulde neuer get them together withoute great entreatye or continuall callyng on them At the laste when they neyther coulde nor durste openly to breake of the conference once begonne by the Kyngs cōmaundement they thoughte good by litle and litle to loose breake of For firste from the great audyence in the whiche we were first heard wyth greate companye restrained in a more narowe place we were admitted onely to the number of .xii. where they had a greate companye of their monkes and doctours Neither yet did this order please them long For at the laste the matter was referred to fiue on ether part and yet afterwardes those that wer chosen for them bicause they wer graue and quiet men they said wer neuer appoynted therto by their consent For they thought thē to much bent to peace concord which they hate All these pollicies attempted as it semed in vayn without any aunswere geuing vs or any parte of theyr mindes signified vnto vs they departed But although this labor may seme emploied in vain wherof their apeares eyther no end or els no certain conclusion yet neuertheles herby is made manifest to al men howe great is the power of truth which can be suppressed by no might of mē by no wile nor guile For she feareth her aduersaries she constraineth her defēders and patrones maketh thē to be feared albeit thei are few and smal of force she vanquisheth and rooteth out all error be it neuer so depe rooted she detecteth and chaseth deceites and lies euen as the light with her beames doth the darknesse to conclude although manye yeares she hath lien hydden and suppressed yet at the last she becomes vanquisher of all her foes Which forasmuche as the lorde dailye proueth before our eyes truely we are vnkinde and vnthankefull vnlesse we mindefully weye it Least therefore the fame of these doynges should dye least they shuld be falsified with lyes or blotted with false tales immediately after my retourne I wrote the note thereof and described all thynges euen as they wer done But whiles I doubted vnder whose name I might best publishe the same your honor cam forthwith to my minde to whom for great fauoure and gentlenesse I am much bounden and not I onely but as many els as beyng true worshippers of god are fled hither
Church is it which is euery where knowen and of all meÌ„ To the authority of yâ— church he sayd al interpretation of Scriptures and making of traditions ought to bee referred Saying that the succession as well of that Church as of the pastours therof was perpetual but of the Lordes Supper he so entreated the touching nothing at al of the chauÌ„ge of the natures of the elements he came very nye to their opinion which ioyne the body bloud of Christ with the elementes And say that they be both vnder them and in them Which afterwardes we vnderstode was done for a polecy partly to procure their fauoure whom he had so kindly clawed and partly to make vs the more hatefull to them Neither yet did he plainly agree with them but shewed that in thys respect he did willingly ioyne with them that they myghte ioyntly warre against vs. The ende of his oration was to this effect That the kyng and his counsell leauing our opinion should folow the steppes of theyr for fathers and not leaue their accustomed vsage When he had ended we desired that presently whiles the memory therof was yet fresh we might satisfye his obiections and refute his argumeÌ„tes For we feared least after thys the Cardinals answere we should scarcely haue leasure or liberty afterwardes to speake Bicause the day afore many bragged that we shuld loke for nothing els thaÌ„ condemnation the thuÌ„derbolt of excomunication Neyther wer we ignorant therof The Queene taking the aduise of her couÌ„cel coÌ„maunded vs to depart saying that we should answere it an other tyme that she would appoint vs a day wheÌ„ we shuld be preseÌ„t again And surely meruaile had it ben if the byshops which wer of that couÌ„cel would haue geueÌ„ any other councel The next day againe we desired that we might be preseÌ„tly heard and the tyme no longer proloÌ„ged But we could obtayne nothing neither wer we heard before the eight day In the meane time false rumors were spred abrode that we wer ouercome put to sileÌ„ce had nothyng to say Whereas we were ready to haue answered their oration presently And how false such tales be here by men may sufficiently gesse that the Bishops did what they could to breake of the coÌ„ference so that at the last by their importunity they obteined of the Queene that the matter shuld not be opeÌ„ly heard afore the king but in a more secret place afore few Therfore it was deferred til the .xxiiii. day of that moneth at the whiche coÌ„maunded to returne to Poyssye we came before the Quene the king Queen of Nauarre the rest of the Lordes and counsallours there were present also â—… Cardinalles and many Byshops and diuynes of al sortes we the mynisters were admitted only to the number of xij Those being seuered which wer seÌ„t froÌ„ other Churches which afore were ioyned with vs. For now the matter was heard both in narower place in lesse companye than before the Cardynals of lorayne shewed in few wordes that this assemblye was to this end that if we would obiecte any thing agaynst that which he had sayde eyght dayes before we might freely speake shuld be herd Then Beza in the name of vs al said That he would haue wished that immediatlye he might haue aunswered the Cardynalls oration whyles the same was fresh in memorye or at the least that he might haue had som copye therof that he might auÌ„swere certaynly perfectly to euery poynt but forasmuch as he coulde not obtayne that he woulde aunswere so much as he coulde call to mynde Fyrste there fore as concerning the article of the Churche which the Cardinall fyrste handled he deuided it into thre partes First what it is Then what are the marks therof Thirdly what and how great is the authoritie therof It is wel knoweÌ„ quoth he that this name Ecclesia which signifieth the church is deriued from the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifyeth to call froÌ„ on place to another Of calling we find .ii. sorts in the scriptures the one coÌ„ioyned with the working of the holy ghost wherof Paul to the Romains writeth whom he called them he iustified Rom. viii c. xxviii The other althoughe in outward shew It be al one with the first yet is altogether vnprofitable to saluation And that only through the fault of man beyng deaffe at the calling of God Of this calling spake the Lorde when he sayde That many wer called but fewe choseÌ„ Mat. xxii b. xiiii Hereof it happens that the name of the church which signifyeth the congregacion of those that are assembled by the word of god is taken .ii. wayes For generally it contayneth al those which outwardly professe to folowe the calling of god Neyther is it to be doubted but manye hypocrites and reprobate persons are within this nuÌ„ber Neither we thanks be to god therefore haue at any tyme Either written or taught otherwise for asmuch as both the scripture and also common experience doth plainly proue the same but takyng this name of the churche proprely and streyghtlye as manye tymes we doe we then say that it comprehendeth onlye the electe and chosen of god And that al men may know that we be not the authours of this maner of speache or of this doctrine when it is written that the church is the body of Christ bones of his bones fleshe of his fleshe yea when the name of Christ it selfe is geuen vnto it Eph. ii g. xxx as Paule wrytyng to the Corinthians ioyning the members with the heade calleth her Christ i. Cor. xii b. xii xvii how could in the number be contayned the reprobate in as muche as they are the members of the deuill For it cannot bee that we shoulde be members bothe of Christ and of the deuil which Austine writyng agaynste Cresconius well noteth in his seconde booke and xxiiii Chapter He also writyng on the .lxiiii. psalme vsed this distinction of the churche saying yâ— that church whiche is signifyed by IerusaleÌ„ toke her begynnyng of Abel and Babilon of Eain And afterwardes in his fyrst booke of baptysme agaynst the Donatistes the seconde Chapter wheras he taketh the name of the church more largely he saieth that he that begot Abell Enoch Noe Abraham the reste of the Prophetes begot also Cayn Ismaell Dathan and suche lyke Therefore to conclude we muste take that whiche Austine hymselfe wrote in the seuenth boke of the same booke the. 51. chapter whiche is also rehearsed .xxiiii. ix i. a. ca. All thyngs consydred it is said that there are two kynde of men in the churche Some of them sayeth he bee the members of Christe and of the house of God yea the house of GOD it self Other some bee in the house but not of the house For they bee as chaffe with the corne tyll suche tyme as they bee seuered Hereof ryseth a questyon whether the Churche bee inuisible Whiche I thynke good to affyrme and
to conclude that onely God knowes his elect chosē Yet neuerthelesse we beleue that ther is a holy church whiche is conceiued imagined and beleued not seene For if we shuld otherwise saie thereof would ensue that whiche is most repugnaunt to reason For if the churche be vnknowen vnto vs to what flock shal we stickto be pertakers of saluation when to the Church only Christ extendeth his power saluatiō we say therfore that althoughe that Churche can not be discerned by sight yet when we seeke to what flocke and companye we ought to assocyate oure selues ther be certayne notes wherby we may know discerne yesame namely the pure worde of god and the syncere administration of the sacraments These be the cleare and euident marks thereof neither is there any doute but whatsoeuer these be ther is also the true Church of god Furthermore we say That al those that professe true religiō are charitablye to be counted amonge the number of the faythful vnlesse the lorde do playnely detest their hipocrisy and dessemblynge Whereof Paule giueth vs a manifest president callinge the Corinthians and Galathians faithfull i. Cor. ii a and applying to them the general name of the churche albeit in thē there was great imperfection aswel of learning as life whiche in diuers places he himselfe complaineth For all those that haue any foundation doe not alwaies builde on the same golde siluer and pretious stones onely but also oftentimes hey chaffe and sedge i. Cor. ii c xii In this maner and sort therefore we vse to speake of the church least we should seme to appoint any fantasticall thing or that should consiste in imaginations onely or least we mighte geue any colour to ill disposed persones to deeme vs suche as were in times past y◠Canthares and Donatistes and in this our age are the Anabaptistes against whō we haue oftē reasoned about this question Nowe let vs come to the markes and signes of the true churche whiche is necessary to be discerned knowen sith out of her is no saluation And for that cause Sathan that olde enemye of man hath attempted by all meanes possible to disguise and counterfayte her to chaunge her auncient sygnes and fayne newe in their places Her vncertaine and vndoubted markes we haue sayde to be two that is to wēte the pure preachyng of the woorde and administration of the sacramentes Hereto doe some adioyne ecclesiastical discipline and fruites of fayth And trulye it is necessary that euery flock should haue some head and guyde whō they oughte to obey yf they mynde to liue in safetye but forasmuche as oure owne iniquities often tymes are the cause that we wāt the two last markes let vs content our selues with the fyrst Therefore that the worde of god is the certayne sygne of the churche herby it appeareth that bothe Christe and Peter compare the same to seede Mat. xiii a. iii iiii xi i. Pet. i. d. For the whiche cause also Paule sayth that he begat the Corinthians in Christ by preachyng the worde i. Cor. iiii c. xv Therefore in dyuerse places it is called one foode and nouryshemente this also Christe hymselfe witnesseth to pertayn to his shepe saying that they heare his voice and no others Iohn x. We adioyne hereto the Sacramentes also for that Christe woulde not onelye to oure eares but also to our eyes and the reste of oure bodylyesenses wytnesse his grace And therefore he ordeyned the Sacramentes to be certain and visible signes both of oure vnion with hym and also of charitye and loue among oure selues For that cause duryng the olde Testament it was sayde that they shoulde be banyshed the companye of the faythfull whiche had not the sygne of cyrcumcision And furthermore decreed that all householders shoulde thrice in the yere appeare before the Lorde at Ierusalem by common sacrifyce to testifye the vnitye of fayth and religion Exodus xxxiiii d. xxiii Afterwardes the Vyneyarde beyng spoyled the Gentyles grewe in one bodye with the Iewes not onely by preachyng the woorde but also by the Sacramentes of Baptysme and of the bodye and bloude of oure Lord. Yea and Christe commaunded his Apostles so to dooe saying goe ye and teache all nations Mat. xx ◠xix This is the doctryne of the woorde to the which he foorthwith adioyneth the Sacramentes saying Baptysing in the name of the Father the Sonne and the holy ghost For to baptisme also must we applye that which Paule writeth of the supper saying that what he receiued of the Lorde he deliuered to vs. i. Cor. xi c xxxii And thesame he testifieth in an other place also Namely that the Churche is founded vppon the foundation of the prophetes and the Apostles Ephe. ii d xx that is to wete vpon Iesus Christ who is the summe substaunce of all the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophetes So also must we vnderstande another texte of the same Apostle Where he sayeth that the Churche is a piller of the liuing God a bolster of truthe i. Timo. iii. d. xv Whiche meaneth that the woorde of God whiche is the truthe it selfe dothe staye and vpholde the church or els is placed in the church as in an open and sure fortresse for y◠in her god extendeth his power health to all beleuers Rom. i these are the true and visible signes of the churche Whiche therefore is called the mother of the faithfull for that they wer begotten in her by incorruptible seede and nouryshed and fed with the same fode If the preaching of the woorde and the true administration of the sacramentes be necessarily required in the churche thē muste there needes be pastours teachers to execute thesame As the holye scriptures sufficientely witnesse but chieflye Paule writyng to the Corinthians and Ephesians this was the cause that this thirde marke was adioyned hereto i. Cor. xii d. xxviii Ephe. iiii vi xi i. Timo. iii. a Ti◅ i. a vi Namely ordinary succession from the time of the Apostles Hereto we aunswer that such succession is muche to be esteemed if it be wel considered and applied after the example of the auncient fathers who groūded thereon against heretikes there newe opinions As Tertulian Ireneus and Austine againste the Maniches and Donatistes but because many lay the same against vs as though we had cōueyed into the churches new scismes and heresies it is necessarye that we should shew our minde herein We say therefore that there is one succession of doctrine an other of persōs Doctrine we graunt to be the true and vndoubted mark of the churche as it hath bene already saide For although the doctrine of the Gospell bee not therefore the more to be credited for that it is the auncientest of all other thoughe it happen many tymes for oure synnes that thesame seeme so new straunge to menne as it ought to bee familiar and vsuall yet neuerthelesse the witnesse of the continuall
vice and wēt no farther but abstained frō sacrifice I aūswer that that is not true in all For Samuel which was not of the stock of Aarō sacrificed in Mispa And Elias of Galaad in y◠mount Carmelus i. Samu. vii c. ix i. Regum xviii f. xxvi Then is it not to be maruelled that the prophets of that time woulde extend theyr office so far as to circumcise sacrifice whereas that by enheritaunce appertayned onely to the tribe of Leuy But suche enheritaunce at this daye hath no place thus you see what we call the church what we think of her markes and of the callyng of pastours in her Which yf you please to applye to oure Churches or to oure selues we hope that by the helpe of god we shall shewe such profe and witnesse therof out of the holy scriptures as no man shall haue any occasion to doute thereof And that both according to the worde of god also to the writings of that godly man Austyne at the least in that treatyse which is reckned among his workes and intitled of 65. question the last question Now let vs speake of the authoritye of the churche By that which we haue alreadye spoken it appeareth that we derogate frō her none of those hye precious titles that the holy ghost doth geue her but say that she is the bodye of our lorde obtayning the same here only in part til such time as ioyned to her head she shall fullye and perfectly enioye the same Heb. xi c. xv i. Co. i. a. vii i Cor. xiiii vi v. Ep. iiii c. xv She is the house of god but suche as is daylye put of and increased She is ruled by the spirite of god but as yet she stri◅eth agaynst the flesh Gala. v. c. xvii She is clensed washed but so that by litle and litle she shal be brought to that perfect beautye in the which ther shal be no spott no wrinkle Ep. v. f. 25 i Co. 3. c. 4 She knowes god but only in part And in these our maners of speache we wish the Apostles wordes to be weyghed to conclude we graunt that there is no saluation without the church For ther is no saluation but in Christ Iesus i. Ihon. v. c. xi Iohn iii. c. xviii And Christ dothe no where extende his saluation but in those members whose congregation and communion is called the churche but it is doubted whether she maye erre in this worlde whether we bee subiecte to the scripture or els her authoritie excede thesame We aunswere that her seuerall members maye erre and dayly fall and fayle as well in doctrine as in lyfe accordyng to the saying of Paule In parte we knowe i. Cor. xiii c. ix Also Iohn saieth If we saye that we haue no sinne we deceue our selues and there is no truthe in vs. i. Iohn i. d. viii Wherfore if any man will goe aboute to excepte the doctours from this number lette him pardon vs that we beleue him not For we coulde easily shewe many authorityes wherein do appeare the manifest errours of the best learned moste auncient doctours Be it spoken wyth their leaue and fauour whom as well for their singuler learnyng as also for their passing pitie we doe muche reuerence Neither truely my L. Cardinal if I wel vnderstoode him doth admy◅ thē without iudgement This therfore is our opinion of y◠mēbers of y◠church seuerally whose inperfection is not so material but that the church may cōsist of thē For by litle litle they daily profit encrease aswel in amending of their liues as encreasīg their learning But now cōsidering y◠parts of the Churche more generally as deuiding it into seueral diocesses prouinces shal we say that they may erre That they bothe may erre also haue erred my L. Cardinal if Iwel remēber hath alredy graūted And the same is also cōfirmed with so great long experience that no wise man maie wel doubt therof It remaineth therefore to consider the whole vnyuersall churche But first we must see in what sort For if we consider it as it is represented by som general counsel assuredly we must not thinke that the whole power that the holy gost extēdeth to that church is restrained to any certain nūber of bishops which oftētimes are neither the best learned nor best liuers For howe oft hapneth it y◠some one priuate man passeth the best lerned yea somtimes the whole coūsel in wit knowledge For this cause lōg since it hath bine writen that better credyte is to be geuen to any pryuate mā groūding a better reason thā either to any coūcelor or pope glo in ca. significasti de elect i ibi pauo And hereof their is a notable example in the councell of nyce For what stayed that the prohibition of mariage Which hath bred so much filthynes in that church had not then bine stablished decreed only paphumtius as the history recordes with stode it Or what conuocation of any generall councel hitherto hath bene so larg but that a greate number of holye and learned men yea of the worthyest bishops hath bene ouerpassed therin And who will affirme that nothing more is reueled to those that are absente than to those that are present at the coūcell Furthermore you are not ignorante what horrible confusiō ther hath bene and is at this present in the church and chiefly amonges those that sitt in hyest comes So that the Church of god euen there wher it should be most pure and perfect doth appeare most confuse and desolate And long time hath this wretched case continued there yet remaine so many greuous leude complaintes of good bishops on the same that the soūde of thē semeth euē now presētli to pea◅re ◅yne eares What in his time Be◅a had wrote in his bokes de consideratione et sermone 33 ch ▪ vppon the Lan◅a Lan◅corum ▪ also in hys sermō of the cōuersiō of Paul it is no lesse cōmon than true Alas alas o lord god they are chefe in perse◅īg that ▪ which seme to be chefest in thy church to beare the greatest rule therein They haue take the castell of Sion they haue wonne y◠m◅nicions now frely by cōmaundemente they ◅ōsume with fyer the whole citye ▪ These things we speake not in reproch of any ◅ā but to shew that for as much as that chef callīg in the church are cōfounded gone astray it can not be proued that ◅ vn◅uersal coūsels which haue bin assēbled many times of a multitude of mē most vnfit therfore are so guided with y◠grace of y◠holi gost that they may not erre The old priest of whom I would make no mētion but y◠his example is cōmonly aledged for that profe hereof although he were vitious wicked did prophēcye ◅◅r◅tel that it was necessari that on mā shuld die for y◠people least the whole nation
was in doctrine That there were onely three kept before Austines time â–ª The Nicene councell against the Arrians the councel of Constantinople against the MacedoniaÌ„s the first counsel of Ephesus against Nestorius none of the which was afterwardes amended He denied the history of Paphuntius as a thyng doubtful to be credited and further sayd that it perteined not to the purpose At the laste to geue the Cardinall occasion which seking by al meanes to breake of the conference willed him to entreate of the supper he came to that question and with few wordes entreated of the presence of the body of Christ in the bred And he red to vs certaine places out of the bokes of Caluine â—…aling neuerthelesse the name of the â—…tour saying that he â—…eruaâ—…led if we would swarue from hym to whom we geue most authoritie aboue the rest about the end of his tale he gaue vs those places to read Afore we answered Spensa a Monk of that order that are clothed all in white whose name they say was Xantus stepped forth enflamed with desire of conteÌ„tion And as though he were aggrieued that SpeÌ„sa had talked somwhat grauely and modestly begaÌ„ to powre out his stomake and not able to stay any loÌ„ger wuld not let vs answer til we had first heard him Then he began to repeate those things which SpeÌ„sa had already spokeÌ„ at large sawcig yesame w e scoffes tauntes which he semed to esteme as that greatest ornameÌ„ts grace of his talke For vs he coÌ„pared both to other auncient heretiâ—…es also to the Anabaptists but at the last he became so mad that abusing the authority of the auÌ„cieÌ„t fathers he affirmed that the fouÌ„datiâ—… of yâ— traditioÌ„s is more sure than of the scripture For the scriptures quoth he may by diuers interpretations bee wried sondry waies And that Ciprian with the rest of the Aphricans was deceiued in this that they sayd Christ sayeth not I am that custom But I am the waye truthe and lyfe And that this his saying heretikes dyd afterwardes commonly abuse He alledged the authoritie of Tertullian of the prescriptions of heretikes imperyously euen like a maister of that scooles I will not saye foolyshly willyng Beza to reade the place by hym alledged twice or thrice Tertullians wordes be these They alledge the scriptures and with these their impudence at the fyrst moue awaye Also that the disputation with scriptures nothyng auaileth vnlesse a man do altogether eyther turne his stomake or his brayne And again Therfore we must not appeale to the scriptures neither contend with them by whom there is eyther no victorye to be atchieued or if there be any it is verye vncertain Furthermore XaÌ„tus said the god otherwise thaÌ„ he intended for that was his term deliuered his doctryne in writing abusig the autority of Chrisostom or of the author of the imperfecte work writteÌ„ vpoÌ„ Mathew And falslye touching the proeme of that work wher ther is no suche thyng red For these bee the wordes of the author After that all the people of the Iewes was falleÌ„ into the depth of sin it was necessary that then a law shuld be writen the tables geueÌ„ warning threates by theÌ„ And this we see hapned not only to the holy meÌ„ of the olde testameÌ„t but eueÌ„ of the new also For Christ left nothing in writyng to hys apostles but in stede of writing promised to geue theÌ„ the grace of the holy gost He quoth he wil teach you al thinges Then he added also that not onely the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was geuen of god wherof came al traditions Also for the rule to discerne traditions that not only the word but also the nature custom is to be considred Accordyng to the saying of Paule the .i. Corint xi Nature it self teacheth you And again neyther let vs not haue such a custome neyther the exaumples of the church of god to be shorte he rehearsed the same that Spensa had afoâ—…e spoken Hereto Beza aunswered modestly at large that to haue one selfe same tale doubled of diuers is not mete for that conference or disputation wherein any good ende or concorde should be sought For that of muche matter heaped together the witts of man are confounded so as therof no good thing may aryse but confusion That euen by their own iudgementes if they had at any tyme vsed disputatioÌ„ this order could not be allowed Neuerthelesse he hoped that so farre as his memory would serue hym to reherse their reasons he would lightly satisfy them And therwithal he desired the Queene and the rest of the nobles hereafter to take some better order for their conference First therfore wheras Spensa had sayd that he much meruayled that we toke vpon vs to teache forasmucheas the ordinary successors had neuer layde handes vpon vs he answered that this is not the chiefe signe of lawfull calling For the chiefe and substantiall partes be the inquisition of learning and lyfe and choyse and election These be the ordinary meanes To the which although the outwarde ceremonies of laying on handes be not adioyned yet the ministery is lawful notwithstanding And that we which wer there present to defende our doctrine and the rest of oure felowes waÌ„ted not also the third mark And neded not to stay on that poynte forasmuch as we were both chosen and confirmed For handes were layed vpoÌ„ vs and we lawfully presented to oure churches which accepted our ministery if it be obiected that those of whom we were instituted and which layed their handes on vs had no autority of the ordinary successors neyther were chosen of the people the answere is ready that thinges being in such confusioÌ„ and the ecclesiasticall order disordred we dyd not stay for the layeng on of their handes whose vicious lyfe superstition false doctrine we haue alwayes repreheÌ„ded For in vaine should we haue sought to haue bin allowed of them whiche wyth deadly hate pursued that truth the defeÌ„ders therof And that we wanted not the presideÌ„tes of the Prophetes to whoÌ„ none were more deadly enemies than the Priestes forasmuch as thei themselues wer turned out of kind no longer respected their office therfore forasmuche as against theÌ„ chiefly the lord had styrred vp the prophets they ought not to seke for at their hands the confirmatioÌ„ of that autority which they had receyued of god Nether did they intrude theÌ„selues into the ministery but wheÌ„ thei had once the coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„ts of god thei wer coÌ„pelled eueÌ„ with the peril of theyr liues to execute thesame And that thesame we in these our times ought to do also Furthermore yâ— extraordinary calling is not alwaies proued by miracles For that which we read of Moses the signes shewed by him hapned not so in all the rest For by what miracles did Esay Daniel Amos Zachary proue theyr calling Or Paulus afore he did execute his charge Did he stay
yet we counted it better to for beare than to be counted lyke to suche trouble some talkers At this alteration the Cardynall stepped in and as though this question had ben sufficiently debated made an end therof Or rather wheÌ„ he coulde no longer beare the proud insoleÌ„t talke of XaÌ„tus he brake of his talk Hereof neuerthelesse the Sorhonists as if the mater had ben coÌ„cluded or seÌ„tence geuen on theyr side w e vain arrogaÌ„ce peâ—…waded theÌ„selues that they had won the victorye Neither is it any marueyle for neither could we answer many of theyr reasoÌ„s which they spake all at once so that we could not vnderstand theÌ„ nether would we interrupt the Cardinal in his talke But he taking on him the part of a iudge dyd closelye conclude that whatsoeuer is written ought to be referred to the authoritie of the charch that her tradytions wer in all pointes to be obserued Afterwardes he turned his talke to the Lordes supper affirming protestyng that he woulde goe no farther tyll we agreed of that article For this sayd he is the controuersye that troubles most men And sayd further that we had necessarily coÌ„pelled him to talke therof For yâ— in our fyrst metyng we had plainlye fhewed our mynde therof which nowe filled al Fraunce with diuers daungerous rumour and farther was imprinted and sette abrode He obiected vnto vs the confession of Awgspurge asked whether we wold subscribe ther to We asked agayne whether they woulde bee contente to allowe it in all pointes then they beganne to trifle Furthermore they obiected other opinioÌ„s of certain ministers of the Germans which they said wer seÌ„t vnto theÌ„ neither wer they ashamed to desyre intreate vs to subscribe vnto theÌ„ But that was done for a pollicy to thintente that if we denied so to do he might set vs at strife with the Germans and make vs to be hated of them And if we did agre then they as conquerours shoulde tryumph ouer vs and make a commoÌ„ iest of vs as of light and vndiscrete persoÌ„s and so coÌ„demne our opinion To auoid this doubt we answered that we came thither to defende the confession of oure faith and had no other commauÌ„demeÌ„t or authoritie of our churches â–ª Therfore we required that we might folowe the order of our confession and that euerye article might be seuerally and distinctly weyed so that it mighte plainlye appeare wherein we agree and wherein we disagree For bothe the order of nature and also the waye to concorde requireth that those thinges whiche be playnest and easiest should first be haÌ„dled â–ª Furthermore forasmuch as the sacramentes depend vpon the doctrine It is most necessary first to reason of it With al this we nothing preuailed For the Cardinal continued in his purpose We saw also that he attempted this that we with inequall hande might departe the conferre that yesame might seeme to be broken of by our stubbornesse Which we thought good by al meanes to preueÌ„t Therfore we desired to haue their writing to the which they would haue vs subscribe that we might deliberate therof Ther with all they brought forth a copie of the article of the lordes supper takeÌ„ as they said out of the confession of Awgspurge But differing neuerthe lesse much therfrom as it may wel appeare by the reading thereof For this it was with a stedfast faith we coÌ„fesse that in the most reuerend sacrament of the Lordes body and bloud truly really and sacramentally the true bodye bloude of Christ is offred to the coÌ„municantes and receiued by them Herto they added the confession of certayne ministers of Wittenberge set forth 〈…〉 the yere of our of our lord god 1559. So we departed for that day and the matter was deferred till the morowe Wherfore when we perceiued that by this requeste they minded to driue vs to this inconuentence that eyther we should denie our own confession or els breake of the conference returnyng at the last and calling on the name of god we determined rather to take the most vnequall and bniust conditions that could be offred than to geue any occasyon wherby it might seme that we fled the conference Therfore the nexte day we prepared our selues to aunswere waytyng alwayes when we should be commaunded to come when it was sygnyfyed to vs from the Queene that thesame was deferred for twoo dayes In the meane tyme diuers tales were spred of vs as that we were ouercome and could not proue our ministery lawfully and our aduersaries reioyced as conquerors as though our hearts fainted to be short thei criuÌ„phed afore the victory But this theyr myrth coÌ„tinued not loÌ„g For ii daies after at oure returne we brought forth an aÌ„swer more at large more perfect to those things which afore wer ouer passed vsed such meanes as we could to auoid the pollicy of oure aduersaries It Beza rehersed in wrytig The effect of it was this That we greatly maruelled yâ— wheras of late we had so aboundantly shewed what is the church what be her marks how great her autority that any reasonable manne might be satisfied ther wt. Yet neuer the lesse nothing was saide against it but onely demaunded of vs by what power we do administer the worde of GOD sacrameÌ„ts And yet nothing ouerpassed yâ— might make our cause odious hateful For to what purpose it was spoken we could not as yet wel perceue bicause we came not thither to administer the word or sacraments But if an accompt shal be demauÌ„ded of vs of those thinges which her to fore we haue don thei must understaÌ„d the emoÌ„ges vs there are two sorts of ministers One of those that teach in foren couÌ„treys in the which theyr calling is allowed And of those it cannot iustly be demauÌ„ded here wherfore they be ministers Another sort is of theÌ„ whiche teach the gospel in this realm whom we thought not to be seÌ„t for hyther to geue an accompt of their callig but only to coÌ„fer dispute of doctrine Otherwise they might seme to bee sent for to plead their cause as for som crime Which we cannot think that the Queene or nobles in any wise minded And yf the same be required vnder the colour of coÌ„ference reasoning it is verye far froÌ„ the meanes of coÌ„cord reconcilement For we cannot enter into such questions demaundes with out the greate offence of the bishops other the Lords of spiritualtie But none of vs all at anye time minded it but purposed onelye to prosecute this holy purpose I pray you if two parties agree to conferre afterwardes the one demaunde of the other By what nower do you this must it not needes ensue that by suche questions they shal fall at bariance As for example setting a part the bishops and other the spiritualtie of this realm whoÌ„ we are lothe to offende let vs admytte that some straunge byshop enquireth of vs by what authoritye we minister the woorde and