cotrouerted betwixte them and the Catholiques yet is he not for all that to be excused from the proofe of those pointes vnless he will withall confess that in them the Protestantes haue no faith at all but onely a mere deniall of faith For faith beinge not a simple denying or not beleeuing but a possitiue assent and belief of such articles as are reueled vnto vs by God it hath possitiue groundes wherby it may and ought to be proued euen in those pointes which are negatiue And therfore as Catholiques doe proue theire faith in these negatiue pointes that onely faith doth not iustifie that we are not certayn of our iustification or saluation and the like so likewise are the Protestantes to proue theyr faith in these that there is no Purgatorie no reall presence no sacrifice of the Mass and the rest Vnless as is sayd before they will confess that they haue no faith in these pointes but onely a mere deniall of faith Haueinge thus aduertised thee good Reader of these fewe things I leaue thee to peruse the treatise it self desiringe thee to expect onely the bare positiones proued with the self text of holy Scripture and some fewe fathers without anie florishe of wordes at all The worke being such as doth rather resemble the bare bones of a great bodye tied together with dried Sinewes then a bodie throughly furnished with flesh and orher habiliments of friendly narure For which cause though to such as rather respect fashion then substance it may happ to appeare hideous yet to others of contrarie appetite for whose contentment it is speciallie intended it will not paraduenture be iudged altogether without forme THE FIRST CONTROuersie Of Holy Scriptures IT is Knowne that the Catholique Roman Church doth admitt more bookes and percells of holy Bible for Scripture then the Protestantes doe and consequently acknowledgeth a larger canon then they and yet notwithstanding shee teacheth Chatolique PositioÌ„ 1. That all such articles as by her and the Protestantes themselues are beleeued and holden for articles of faith are not so expressly contayned in holy Scriptures as out of them onely full proofe may be made therof Proofe The articles which the Protestantes doe beleeue to be of faith as well as Catholiques and yet are not contayned expresly in holy scriptures are many but wee will giue instance onely in a fewe 1 That there are three distincte personnes and one onely substance in god 2. That the secuÌ„de and third personns are of the same substance â—nd equall gloire with the first â— That the third personn proceedeth from the seconde and from the first 4. That there are two distinct and compleat natures in our sauiour Christ and but one onely personn 5. That there are in him two willes and two operations to witt of god and man about all which pointes haue been diuerse heresies as is well Knowne to the learned And thoughe all these articles haue most true ground and proofe in holy Scriptures yet are they not soe expressly contayned therin as they may be fully prooued by them alone One example shall serue for all To proue the sonn to be consubstantiall or of one substance with the father the Catholiques doe alledg and truly this testimonie I and the father are one yet because there are moe meanes of beinge one then in substance as namely to be of one will desire and affection of which sorte of vnitie specially the Arrianes did explicat this place alledging for them selues that testimonie I pray that they all may be one as thou Father in me and I in thee that they also in vs may be one which cannot be vnderstood of vnitie in substance Therfore this testimonie without the interpretatioÌ„ of the Church which is the piller of truth doth not fully proue the father and the sonn to be one in substance The like may be sayd of the other articles here mentioned Catho posi 2. All such articles as are of faith and so holden by the ProtestaÌ„tes them selues are not contayned so much as indirectly or implicitly in holy Scriptures but onely so farr as the Scriptures contayne and testifie the auctoritie of the Church and traditions Proofe That all the Bookes of the Bible and euerie parte therof which are acknowledged for canonicall scripture ioynthy of Catholiques and Protestantes be such indeed That the most blessed mother of our Sauiour Christ continued perpetually a Virgin That it is lawfull for Cristians to eate strangled things and blood which were expresly forbidden them acts cap. 15. vers 20 are not so much as indirectly contayned in holy Scriptures otherwaies then is mentioned in our position But this being more amply proued in that which followeth of traditions this which wee haue sayd already shall suffice for the present The Positions which the Protestantes in this question are to proue be these ProtestaÌ„t position 1 All articles of faith are so expressy contayned in scripture as out of them onely full proofe may be made therof 2. All articles of faith are at least so contayned in holy scriptures as with out anie testimonie or auctoririe of the Church or traditions they may thence be plainlie and distinctly deduced TE SECOND CONtrouersie of Traditiones Catholique Positions 1. THe holy Apostles deliuered by worde of mouth moe thinges to be beleeued and obserued by the Church then ether they found written or wrot them selues And these thinges are vsually called traditiones Proofe 1. Haueing moe things to write vnto you would not by paper and â—â—â—e for I hope shall be with you and speake mouth to â—outhe 2. And the rest I will dispose when I â—ome where the holy Apostle euidently sheweth that he reserued something more to be ordayned by worde then he wrote 3. The Apostles were commaunded to teache all nationes to obserue all things which our sauiour had commavnded which doubtless they fulfilled but they were not commaunded in anie place to write all the same nether doth it appeare by anie Scripture that they did write all thinges which they taught men to beleeue and obserue This is à demoÌ„stration that they taught more then they wrote if nothing be to be beleeued but what is contayned in holy Scripture 4. They taught Baptisme giuen to infants to be good and lawfull or ells the Anabaptistes are not heretiques for rebaptising them 5. They taught the sonday to be solemnised and the Iewes Sabbathe to be left without all solemnitie though most strictly commaÌ„ded by god to be solemnised as an euerlasting couenaÌ„t 6. They deliuered and taught the creed by worde and not in writing which from they re tyme till now hath continued in the church by tradition onely 7. They taught Baptisme ministered by heretiques to be good and therfore S. Augustin speakinge therof saith Manie things which are not founde in the Apostles writinges nor in latter councells yet because they are obserued by the whole church are beleeued to be deliuered and recommended
by none but by theÌ„ Agayne he sayth There are many thinges which the whole church doth hold and therfore are well beleeued to be commaunded by the Apostles albeit they be not found written Catholique positi The Catholique church doth ought to beleeue those things which the Apostles deliuered onely by worde without writinge in the same degree of faith with those which are written Note that the proofes of this position doth also proue thother going à fore Proofe 1. Therfore Brethren stand and hold the traditions which you haue learned whether it be by worde or by our epistle S. Basile saith I account it Apostolique to continue firmly in vnwritten traditions and alledgeth this place of S. Paule S. Chrisostome cited by Fulke himself saith thus Hereof it is manifest that they the Apostles deliuered not all by Epistles but many things without letters and the one is of as great credit as the other Therfore we think the tradition of the church to be worthie of credit It is à tradition inquire no more 2. O Timothee keepe the deposituÌ„ That is that which is comitted to thy trust not certes by writinge For litle or nothinge writren of the new testament was knowne to Timothee then See à large discourse herevpon in Vincentius lirenensis 3. But if anie man seeme to be contentious wee haue no such custome nor the church of god where S. Paule alledgeth the custome of the church as à sufficient disproofe of anie practise why not therfore for the proofe of anie The things which thou hast hearde of me by many witnesses these commende to faithfull men which shall be fitt to teach others also loe no word here of writing but of hearing teaching by worde of mouthe Nowe haueinge proued by Scripture it self and euident instances that many thinges are to be beleeued that are not directly contayned in Scripture it appeareth à sensless thinge to demaunde direct proofe of euerie thinge we beleeue out of Scripture Protestants Positi The holy Apostles deliuered not by word of mouth moethings to be beleeued and obserued by the church theÌ„ theyether founde written or wrote them selues And therfore are there no traditions to be holden or beleeued 2. The Catholique church ought not to beleeue those thinge which the Apostles deliuered onely by worde of mouth without writinge in the same degree of faithe with those which are written THE THIRD CON trouersie of the difficultie to vnderstand the Scriptures Catho positiones 1 All places of holy scripture conteyninge articles of fayth the obstinate misbeleife wherof is Damnable are not easâ—â— to be vnderstoode but requiâ—â— some rule to be interpreted by Proofe 1. Philipp sayd to the Eunucâ— whom he founde readinge thâ— Prophet Esay Trow est thou thâ—â— thou vnderstandest the things which thou readest who sayde how can vnless some man shewe me 2. Our Sauiour accordingly â—pened the vnderstaÌ„dinge of his Apostles that they might vnderstand the Scriptures see therfore what à speciall grace it is to â—nderstand the Scriptures in there true sense and meaninge In the which the Epistles of sainct Paule are certayne thinges hard to be vnderstoode which the vnlearned and vnstable depraue as also the 〈◊〉 of the Scriptures to theyr owne perâ—â—ione Sainct Hierome explicatinge â—â—e text now cited out of the actes concludeth thus These thinges haue I breifly touched as the limitts of an Epistle would permitt that thou mayest vnderstande that with out a guide and teacher thou canst not enter the pathe of holy Scriptures which is easie to conceaue seeinge as he notethe in the same place no trade nor mechanicall art is learned with out à maister Certes it is not onely an heresie but à meere frensie to saye that all scriptures conteyninge poyntes of faythe necessary to be beleeued are easie to be vnderstoode of priuat beleeuers sithence all heresies whatsoeuer haue bene begoÌ„n and maynteyned for want of true vnderstandinge of holy scriptures wherof Vincentius Lirenensis sayth thus Some man may peraduenture aske foâ— asmuch as the canon of the scriptures 〈◊〉 perfect and in all pointes very sufficient in it self what neede is ther tâ— ioyne therunto the authoritie of the ecclesiasticall vnderstandinge For this cause surely for that all take not the holy scriptures in one and the same sense because of the deepness therof bâ—â— the sayinges therof some interpret one way and some another way soe thaâ— tbere may almost as manye senses bâ— picked out of it as there be men Foâ— Nouatian doth expound it one waye and Sabellius another waye otherwise Arrius Eunomius Macedonius other wayes Photinus Apolinaris Priscillianus otherwayes Iouinian Pelagius Celestius lastly otherwayes Nestorius Thus far that auÌ„cieÌ„t father to whom we may ad otherwais wicliffe Luther Caluin Anabaptistes with the rest and this most truely seing of these fewe wordes This is my Bodye there are found aboue 80. diuers senses besides the Catholique â—ense and meaninge S. Augustine also auoucheth the samesayinge For no other reason are heresies made but because men not rightly vnderstandinge the Scriptures doe obstinatly affirme they re owne opiniones against the truthe of them Catho pos 2. Priuate personnes though true beieeuershaue not the spirit of interpretinge the holy Scripture in the true sense and meaninge of the same Proofe 1. No prophecie of scripture is made by priuate interpretation 2. The lippes of the Priest shall keepe knowledg and the lawe they shal require of his mouthe be cause he is the Angell that is the messeÌ„ger of the lord of hostes loe here the office of interpretinge the lawes of god giuen to priestes and not assured to euerie faythfull person 3. Vpon the Chaire of Moyses haue sitten scribes and Pharisies all thinges therfore whatsoeuer they shall saye to you obserue yee and doe yee loe here à commaunde to heare the prelates pastoures of the church and no man lefte to followe his owne fantasie in matters of faythe and manners Protestantes PositioÌ„ 1. All places of holy Scripture â—onteininge articles of faith the obstinate misbelief wherof is daÌ„nable are easie to be vnd er stood therfore require not anie rule to be interpreted by 2. Priuat persounes that are true beleeuers haue the Spirit and gift of interpretinge the holy Scripture in the true sense and meainge therof THE FOVRTH CONtrouersie Of the infallibilitie of the churche Catho pos THe sense and meaninge of holy Scriptures giuen or aproued by the holy Catholique church is vnfallibly true as are also the definitiones and declarationes of faithe deliuered by the same and euery one is bounde vpon his damnatioÌ„ not to reiect the iudgment therof Proofe 1. My spirit that is in thee and my wordes that I haue put in thy mouthe shall not departe out of thy mouthe and out of the mouthe of thy seede and out of the mouthe of thy seedes seede sayth our lord for this present and for euer
tell the churche therfore must it of necessitie be apparent and visible 5. The Churche consistethe of Pastores and sheepe Superiors or rulers and subiectes And he gaue some Apostles and some Prophetes and other some Euangelistes other some pastores and Doctores Are all Appostles are all Prophetes are all Doctores But superiores and subiectes must be Knowne to one another as also Pastores and they re sheepe Therfore must the Churche of necessitie be visible and apparent Protestantes posit The true Church of god is not necessarily visible nor apparent ether to the faithfull beleeuers that are in it or to heretiques and those that are out of it This position must the Protestantes also proue and defend though directly against the holy Scriptures vnless they will confess their church not to be the true Church as if the Scriptures be true it cannot be seeinge that before Luther it ether was not at all or was inuisible and therfore no true church of Christ Catholique Positi The true church of Christ can neuer want à lawfull personall succession of Pastors from her first institution till the end of the world Proofe 1. And he gaue some Apostles and some Prophets and othersome Euangelistes and othersome pastores and Doctores To the consummation of the saintes vnto the worke of the ministerie vnto the edifyinge of the bodye of Christ Vntill we meete all in the vnitie of faythe Loe here Pastores giuen for the Churche till all meete in vnite of faythe which is till the ende of the worde 2. Goinge teache all nationes baptiseinge them in the name of the Father c. and behoulde I am with you all dayes euen to the consummation of the worlde Loe here Christ promiseth to be with the pastores of the Churche whom he sendethe all dayes till the ende therfore there shall alwayes be pastores 3 For thy Fathers there are borne sonnes to thee thou shalt make them princes ouer all the earthe Vnderstoode by S. Augustine of the successione of pastores in the churche Sayinge The Apostles begott thee ô Christian Churche they were sent they preached they are thy fathers But could they bee alwayes corporally with vs could any of them tarye here till this tyme could they tarie till the time yet to come But was therfore the Churche left desolate by theyr departure God forbidd For thy fathers sonnsare borne to thee what is this for thy fathers sonnes are borne to thee The Aposstles were seÌ„t fathers inplace of the Aposstles sonnes are borne to the Bishoppes are appointed For whence were the Bishoppes borne that are att this daye in the worlde the church her selfe callethe them fathers shee begate them and appoynted them in the seates of the fathers Doe not therfore think thyself desolate O ChristiaÌ„ church because thou seest not Peter seest not Paule for thou seest not them by whome thou wast borne but of thyn issue fatherhoode is spronge to thee For thy fathers sonnes are borne to thee thou shalt make them princes ouer all the earthe This is the Catholique church Her children are made princes ouer all the earthe her sonnes are constituted for fathers lett them acknowledge this that are cut of let them come to the vnitie be they brought into the temple of the kinge Thus S. Augustin prote pos The true church of Christe may be without a lawfull personnall succession of Pastores This position they must alsoe proué or ells theyr church cannot be anie true churche For they cannot shew any Pastores of theyr religion before Luther to whom he succeeded Catho pos This lawfull succession of Pastores in gods churche is not withovt consecration and authenticall mission or sendinge by an ordinarye power residing in the churche Proofe 1. when they S. S. Paule and Barnabas had ordayned to them Priestes in eueri churche and had prayed with fastinge they commended them to our lord in whom they beleeued 2. Nether doth any man take the honoure of priesthoode to himself but he that is called of god as Aaron Note that if Luther CaluiÌ„ and Beza with the rest who say they are called of god as Aaron can shewe the like proofes of they re calling that Aaron did and besides the externall consecratioÌ„ which he also had notwithstanding his internall callinge of god they shal be beleeued to haue godes caling Tough Aaron being the first of his order and therfore could not haue his callinge by succession his case is farr vnlike to our newe maysters vnless they will coÌ„fess a truthe and saye that they are also the first of their order wherin they shal be beleeued and therby conuinced not to be preachers of Christ but of themselues because they haue no mission from him but come of them selues beinge sent by none 3. Howe shall they beliue him whom they haue not hard And howe shall they heare without a preacher But howe shall they preach vnless they be sent Amen Amen I saye vnto you he that entereth not by the dore that is by the ordinarie waye into the fould of the sheepe but climethe vp another way he is a theefe and a robber But hee that enterethe by the Dore is the Pastore of the sheepe The Prophets prophesie lyes in my name I haue not sent them I haue not sent these Prophets yet they rann with many such like wherby it appeareth that we are not to beleeue euerie one that preteÌ„deth to come from god vnless they shew their mission and coÌ„missioÌ„ To which purpose heare this notable saying of the auncient Ireneus It behoâ—uethe to obaie those priestes that are in the churche those who haue the succession from the Apostles as we haue shewed who together with Episcopalitie haue receiued accordinge to the will of the father the assured certayne gift of truthe But to suspect the rest that stande of from the originall succession in what place soeuer the are assembled ether as heretiqueâ— and of bad doctrine as makeinge schisme and as highe mynded and pleasinge themselues and of S. Cypriane If the church was with Cornelius whâ— succeeded the Bishope Fabiane and whome beside the honoure of Preisthoâ—â— our lord glorified with martyrdomeâ— Nouatian is not in the church nor caâ— he be esteemed à Bishope who dispising euangelicall and apostolicall tradition succeeding to none is sprongâ— out from himselfe For nether can 〈◊〉 haue or houlde by any meanes the churche who is not ordered in the churche Protestantes Pos. The lawfull succession of Pastores in gods churche may be with out consecration and authenticall mission or sending by any ordinarie power residing in the churche THE SIXTHE CONtrouersie of the supremicie of S. Peter and of the Pope or Bishope of Rome Catho Positions 1 SAint Peter was by our sauiour Christ constituted supreme head and souraigne Bishope or Pastoure ouer his whole churche militant Proofe 1. Our sauiour sayd to S. Peter Symon of Ihon louest thou me Feede my sheepe
a speeche directed to S. Peter and to no other of the Apostles containing charge to feede as a shepherde doth his sheepe all christes flok whithout exceptioÌ„ so vnderstood by S. CipriaÌ„ sayinge To Peter our lord after his resurrection sayde feede my sheepe and builded his churche vpon him alone and to him he gaue charge of feeding his sehepe By S. Chrisostome he gaue him S. Peter the primacie gouernment of the churche thrughe the whol world which is aboue all he sheweth him to haue loued our lord more theÌ„ All the Apostles sayinge Peter louest thou me more theÌ„ these Our sauiour sayth to S Peter Thou art Peter vpon this rock wilâ— I builde my churche Note that accordinge to the Greke Siriake text these wordes sound thus thou art a rocke and vpon this rocke I wil builde my churche which is also the true seÌ„se of the vulgare latiÌ„ Here did our sauiour christmanifestly promise to S. Peter souerayntie ouer his churche For the foundation is to à buildinge the same that the heade or prince is in a kingdome or common wealth Thus doth S. Epiphanius vnderstand these wordes sayinge Our lord him selfe hath constituted him S. Peter the first of his Apostles the firme rocke vpon which the churche of god is built To these wordes also manifestly alludeth the holy generall councell of Calcedon in the sentence of coÌ„demnatione against Dioscorus sayinge Leo the most holy blessed Archebishope of great and auÌ„cient Rome by vs and by this preseÌ„t holi synode together with the thrise most blessed and all prayse worthye S. Peter whoe ys the Rock and very topp of the Catholique Churche he which is the foundatione of true faithe hathe spoyled him Dioscorus of all episcopall dignitie Our sauiour sayth to S. Peter I will giue to thee the keyes of the kingdome of heauen wher is also most clerely signified S. Peter his preheminence in godes churche For none hath the gouernement or commaundemeÌ„t of the Keyes of any towne or citie but the prince or gouernour of the same that soueraygne power is signified by the Keyes it is proued by that of our sauiour Christe I haue the keyes of death and hell That is the rule and prower ouer deathe and hell And agayn Hee that hath the Keye of Dauide he that shuteth and noe man openeth S. Peter practised the authoritie of supreame pastoure in declaringe Iudas to haue fallen from his Apostleship and proposinge another to be chosen in his roome Peter risinge vp in the midest of the brethereÌ„ sayd as foloweth S. Chrisostome vnderstaÌ„dinge it so saythe How feruent is he how he acknowledgethe the flocke committed by christ how he is prince of this company and in euery place begineth the first to speak His supremicie was acknowledged by S. Paule goeinge to Hierusalem to see him Then after three yeares I came to Hierusalem to see Peter S. Chrisostome vnderstandeth it so sayinge Peter was the mouthe of the Apostles prince and topp of that companye therfore also Paule goethe vp to see him beside the others Catho pos â— The Pope or Bishope of Rome is the law full and lineall successoure of S. Peter in that charge and office which our sauioure gaue vnto S. Peter ouer his churche militant Proofe The power which our sauioure gaue to S. Peter ouer his churche militante was giuen him as likewise the power giuen to other Apostles to the consuÌ„mation of the saintes to the edifâ—nge of the bodye of Christ vntill we all meete in the vnitie of saith knowledge of the sonn of god as S. Paule testifiethe and therfore to continue in the churche soe longe as the churche is to continue which is also prooued by that Vpon this Rocke will I build my churche and by that feed my sheepe for so longe as the buildinge of the churche coÌ„tinueth or the flock of christe is to be fed which will be to the end of the world so long must the rock wherupon the churche is built and the pastours who must feede the shepe continue But this cannot be in S. Peters personn therfore in his successoures see S. Augustin his wordes before in that positione that the true churche can neuer want a lawfull personnall successione of pastores vpon these wordes of the psalme 44. For thy fathers are borne sonnes to thee And S Chriso who saith why did oure lord shed his blood surely to redeeme those sheepe the cure wherof he commited to Peter aÌ„d also to his successoures Now that the Bishope of Rome is the lawfull and lineall successoure of S. Peter is as authentically and euidently proued as that Lewis the 13. of France is lineall successoure to Hughe Capet or his maiestié of Ingland to wiliam the coÌ„querour S. Ireneus Optatus S. Epiphanius and S. Augustin doe deriue the successione of the bishopes of Rome from S. Peter vntill the bishopes that liued â— theyr tymes Besides Eusebius or S. Hierosme Prosper and all such as haue written the cronicles of ecclesiasticall affayres doe not omitt to continue the Bishopes of Rome vntill theyr owne dayes And soe wel is this successione knowne that M. Fulke sayethe wee can coumpt it on our fingares And S. Augustine doubteth not to saye that the succession of preistes from the seat of Peter to whom our lorde after his resurrection commended his sheepe to be fed vntil that present Bishopp held him within the lapp of the churche Protes pos 1. S. Peter was not by our sauiour our Christ constituted supreme head and soureygne pastoure or Bishop ouer his churche militant 2. The Pope or Bishope of Rome is not lawfull and lineall successoure to S. Peter in that charge and office which our sauiour gaue to S. Peter ouer his churche militante THE SEAVENTH Controuersie of the honoure due vnto the holy Angells and Saintes in heauen Catho pos 1. TO the holy Angelles and saintes in heauen is due more then ciuil honoure and reuerence Proofe 1. To mee thy frendes ô god are exceedingly honorable loe here Dauid beinge â—inge auowethe that the frendes of god are greatly to be honoured by him Certes not with ciuill honoures for suche he ought not to them he beinge kinge and the frendes of god beinge all those that doe the thinges he coÌ„mauÌ„deth as our sauiour testifiethe of what condition or degree soeuer 2. where this Gospell shal be preached in the whole worlde that also which shee hath done shal be toulde for a memorie of her Loe here an exeeding honoure decreed by our sauiour him self to S. Marie Magdaleyne where is to be noted that this is coÌ„mauÌ„ded to be done in memorie of her in like manner of speeche as our sauiour commaunded the holy misteries to be celebrated in memorie of him 3. Iosue beinge in the feild of the citie of hiericho saw a man staÌ„dinge against him how
body which is giuen for you This is the chalice the newe testament in my blood which shall be shed for you and yet agayne Our lord Iesus in the night that he was betrayed tooke breade And giuinge thankes brake sayd Take yee eate This is my body which shall be deliuered for you this doe yee for commemoration of me In like manner also the chalice after he had supped sayinge this chalice is the newe testament in my blood this doe yee as often as ye shall drinke for the commemoration of me Note that these wordes this is my body beinge vnderstoode as they sounde there can be no more controuersie about this poynt And that they are to be vnderstoode as they sounde and without all figure may be conuinced in this sorte There can nether reason nor aucthoritie be alledged why anie other wordes of holy scripture are to be vnderstoode as they sounde and namely these wordes which are most like them This is my welbeloued sonne which doth not proue the same of these wherof we now speake Therfore without all sense reason merely of hereticall wilfulness is a figure sought in these Wordes more then in any other and namely in these I haue mentioned But here I inteÌ„d not any further dispute OF TRANSVBST ANtiation Catholique position THe worde TransubstaÌ„tiation is not founde expressly in holy scripture as likewise is not coÌ„substantiall but as the Catholique churche did euer beleeue the equalitie of power vnitie of substance in the Father and the sonne and by the assistance of the holy ghost the spirit of truthe which teacheth her all truthe did express her beleefe in that point by the worde consubstantiall in the holy councell of Nice so like wise haueinge euer beleeued the true reall presence of Christes body in the most holy eucharist by the change of the bread into the same body did beinge assisted by the same neuer fay linge spirit of truthe in the holy councel of Lateran first and since in diuerse others express her beleif in that poynt by the worde transubstantiation as most fitly declaringe the veritie of that most holy mystery Nether can the protestantes produce anie thing against transubstantiation which they themselues are not bounde to solue and answere the Arriannes obiectinge the very like against that of consubstantiall That the doctrin of traÌ„substaÌ„tion is not newe Adamus Francisci a learned protestant with others confesseth in these words The fiction of transubstantiation crep into the churche betimes And this shall suffice for this pointe till occasion be giuen of a larger discours OF ADORING THE holy Eucharist Catholique Positions OVr Sauioure Christ beinge noe less truly present in the holy Eucharist theÌ„ he was in the stable in Bethelem or vpon the cross he is noe less to be adored of all faithful christians in the sacrament then he was there or then beinge in the forme of a gardiner he was of S. Marie Magdalein Proofe Adore yee him all his Angells which wordes S. Paule hebrwes cap. 1. vnderstaÌ„deth of the adoâ—ation of Christ in his humanitié Adore yee the footstoole of his feete By which footstoole S. Augustine vnderstandeth the fleshe or bodie of our sauiour Christ and saith Because he walked here in fleshe and gaue the same fleshe to vs to be eaten for our Saluation and no man eateth that fleshe vnless he first adore it it is fouÌ„de howe the footstoole of our lord is adored Certes he that acknowledgeth our sauiour Christ truly present in the B. Sacrament and yet thinketh him not worthie of Adoration is more sensless and vnthankfull then that vngratfull kaytiff that seeinge his grations soueraigne coÌ„ming to visit him in his vile cottage should thinke him less honorable for suche exceeding grace and fauoure Protestantes positions In the holy Eucharist the true body and blood of our sauiouâ— Christ is not truly really anâ— substantially but in figure only 2 The body of Christ is not iâ— the Eucharist by transubstantiatione 3 He ys not to be adored in the Eucharist OF COMMVNION vnder one kinde Catholique positions 1. IT is no where forbidden iâ— holy scripture to minister the holy communion to lay personnes vnder one Kinde onely This Positione is clear no such prohibitione appearing in the scripture And yf the ProtestaÌ„tes growndes of beleeuinge nothinge but what is proued by scripture were true would sufficiently warrant the practise of the Roman churche in this poynt But â—urther It is no where commaunded â— holy scripture to giue the holy â—ommunion vnder both kindes â—o the laye people This Posision ys also cleare no such commaundement anie where appearinge For that which is sayd doe â—his for remembrance of me is spokeÌ„ onely of the kinde of bread and therfore doth well prouue the contraire S. Paule in deed â—ddeth it to both kindes therby also declaringe this holy mysterie taken ether under both or one kinde to be a memoriall of Christ and his passione and therfore doth rather proue the Catholique Roman practice then anie waye disproue yt Thoughe these wordes doe rather giue power and auctoritie to the Apostles priestes to consecrate and offer the vnbloody sacrifice here instituted and offered by our sauiouâ— Christ then import anie commaundement of ministringe thâ— same to the laye people vndeâ— both kindes And this shal appeare more euidently by thaâ— which followeth Catholique position The Catholique Roman churche doth not anie wronge or iniurie to the lay people ministringe vnto them the holy Eucharist vnder one kinde onely They receauinge the same benefit by one that they should do by bothe christs bodie blood beinge whole in eache Proofe He that saythe vnless you eate the fleshe of the sonn of man and drinke his bloode you shall not haue life in you saithe also He that eatethe me the same also shall liue by me And agayne he that eateth of this bread shall liue foreuer And he that sayth he that eateeth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me and I in him The same also sayth the bread that I wil giue is my fleshe forthe life of the wolrde And he that sayth he that eateth my fleshe and drinketh my blood hath life euerlastinge The same sayth he that eateth this bread shall liue for euer All these are the sayinges of our sauiour Christ in on the same hapter of S. Ihon where if we say with most Catholique Docteurs that he speaketh of the holy Sacrament Sacramentally receaued it is manifest that he ascribeth the same effect and vertu to one kinde that he doth to both And therfore can they haue noe wroÌ„ge done them that for most iust causes haue it ministered vnder one kinde onely But yf we saye with the Protestantes that here is no speache of sacrameÌ„tall eatinge of Christ his body theÌ„ is there noe difficultie in theyr cheest argument which is grounde vpon the first wordes alleadge in this proof 2. The were perseueringe
partes of Pennance to wit confession and satisfaction OF CONFESsione Catholique position OF the power of retayning that is not remittinge of synnes giuen to preistes followeth the necessitie of confession of all synnes For if on the one side the synnes retayned and not remitted by Preistes vpon earthe be retayned and not remitted in heauen as is manifest by our Sauioures owne wordes and yf on the other side the priest cannot remitt the synne vnless he knowe it as is manifest he cannot nor caÌ„ he know it vnless it be towlde him it followeth necessarilie that he that will haue his synnes remited must by his owne confessione make them knowne vnto him to whome god hath giuen power to remitt them Confession was practised in the Apostles tymes as appear the for manie of them that beleeued came confessinge and declaringe their deedes It is also probable that S. Iames speaketh of this SacrameÌ„tall confession when he sayth Confess your sinnes one to another for soe doth Origen vnderstand it saying There is a seauen the kinde of remissione of sinnes though verie hard and laboursome when the sinner washeth his bedd with teares they are made his bread both daie and night and when he is not ashamed to declare his sinne to the Priest of our lorde and to seeke remedie accordinge to him which saithe I haue saide I will pronounce my iniustice against my selfe to our lord and thou hast remitted the impietie of mine hart In whom also that is fullfilled which the Apostle saith yf anie be sick lett him bring in the preistes of the churche and yf he be in sinne they shall bere mitted to him The iudgement of the auncient churche is soe clere in this point of confession that Mr. Fulke a most piuishe enimie to all Catholique Doctrine is compelled by the multitude of most clere testimonies of the auncient fathers to coÌ„fess that it is expedient some tymes in these wordes That it is expedient in some cases for men to confess theyr sinnes to they re pastoure we deny not OF SATISFACction Catholique position 3. THe guilt of the sinne beinge remytted the payne due therfore is not alwayes so pardoned but that often tymes ther remayneth a temporall payne to be suffered for it ether here in this life or els in purgatorie Proofe 1. Forgiue I beseche thee the sinne of this thy people accordinge to the greatness of thy mercie as thou hast beene propitiouse to them since their goeinge out from Egipt vnto this place And our lord said I haue forgiuen it accordinge to thy worde liue I and the whole earth shal be replenished with the glorie of our lord But yet all the men that haue seene my maiestie and the signes that I haue done in Egipt and in the wilderness and haue tempted me nowe tenn tymes nether haue obeied my voice they shall not see the lande for which I swore to their fathers nether shall anie of them that haue detracted me behould it The like is recorded of Moyses Deuter cap. 32. v. 49 and of Aaron NuÌ„bers cap. 20. v. 23. yet noe man doubteth but the sinn for which they were punished was forgiuuen them before they re deathe Dauid sayd to NathaÌ„ I haue synned to our lord And Nathan sayd to Dauid our lord also hath taken away thy Syn thou shalt not dye Neuertheless because thou hast made the ennimies of our lord to blaspheme for this thing the sonn that is borne to thee dyinge shall die Catholique position This temporall payne remayning after the guilt of the sinne is remitted may be redeemed by good workes as by fastinge prayer Almes and the like which therfore are truly called satisfactorie Proofe 1. If I shall shut heauen and reane fall not shall bid coÌ„maunde locustes to deuoure the lande and shall send Pestilence into my People And my poeple beinge conuerted vpon whom my name is inuocated shall doe pennance from theire most wicked wayes I also will heare from heauen will be propitious to theyr sinnes and will saue their land 2. O kinge lett me counsell thee and redeeme thy sinnes with almes thy iniquities with the mercies of the poore 3. Therfore are there amonge you manie weake and feeble and manie sleepe But yf we did iudge ourselues we should not be iudged that is yf we punishe or chastice our selues we should not be chastised of god for our synnes remitted for of such the Apostle speaketh as is manifest by the vers followinge But whiles we are indged of our lord we are chastised that with this world we be not damned Catholique Positions 5. workes done for the satisfactioÌ„ of the temporall payne remayning after the sinne be pardoned do no way derogate from the satisfaction of christ his passion Proofe 1. I Paule whoe nowe reioyce in sufferinge for you and doe accomplishe those things that want of the passiones of Christ in my fleshe for his body which is the churche 2. we are heires truly of god and coheyres of Christ yet yf we suffer with him that we may be gloriffied which him Loe here our sufferinge at least a condition necessarie for our glorification 3. To him that is such an one this rebuke sufficeth that is geuen of many where S. Paule speaketh of the PeÌ„nance enioyned vpon the incestious Corinthiane Doe Pennance sayth S. Iohn Baptist and by his life and example shewed what pennance he spake of And agayne yeeld therfore fruit worthy of Pennance But Zacheus standinge sayd to our lord Behould the half of my goodes I giue to the poore and yf I haue defrauded anie man of anie thing I restore fowre fould The doctrine and practise of the auncient churche thouching Satisfaction is confessed by the Centuristes in these wordes The life of those that confessed lesser sinnes was considered iudged whether they had done iust pennance as appreareth by Ciprian lib. 3. epistle 16. and that satisfaction was accustomed to be imposed vpon them according to the quantitie of the fault appearethe by his S. sermone de lapsis Tertuliane also mentioneth the same in his booke of Pennance OF INDVL gences Catholique position THere is in the churche of God power to giue Indulgences or graunte pardonnes that is to remitt and pardonne parte or all the temporall payne pennance or punishment which for the most parte remayneth to be performed or suffered for the satis-faction af the sinne after the guilte of the synn be taken awaye Proofe To the will I giue the keis of the kingdome of heauen and what soeuer thou shalt lose in earthe shal be also losed in the heauens And the same repeated agayne to all the Apostles in another place This power is practised by S. Paule whom you haue pardonned anie â—â—ing I also Formy self also that which I pardoned yf I pardoned anithing for you in the personne of Christ Loe here S. Paule at the prayer of others pardoned and assoyled
of mere mercie and grace the incestu ouse corinthiane of the rest of his Pennance which with out the same pardone he was bouÌ„de to haue performed though his sinn was already forgiuen him Protestant Positions 1. Pennance consistinge of contrition confession and satisfaction of the penitent and absolution of the preist is not truly properly à Sacrament of the newe lawe 2. It is not necessarie for the penitent to confess all his synnes or that coÌ„fession is not necessarie for obtayniÌ„g remissioÌ„ of our synnes 3. The guilt of the synn being pardonned there remainethe no temporall payne to be suffered or other satisfaction to be made ther in this life or in the next â— The temporall payne reâ—ayning cannot be redeemed â—y anie workes nor are there â—nie satisfactorie workes â— workes done for Satisfaction â—or synn or for the payne due to â—t doe derogate from the satifaction of our Sauiours passion â— There is not in the churche of Christ anie power to giue indulgence or graunte pardon of anie parte of the the temporall payne or pennance to be performed after the guilt of the synn be pardoned and remitted OF HOLY ORders Catholique position HOly orders wherby power is giuen both to consecrate the true body of Christ as the catholique church doth beliue also to minister other Sacraments in the churche which is the mysticall body of Christ to exercise other ecclesiasticall functiones is truly and properly a Sacrament of the newe lawe Proofe Holy order is giuen by a visible or sensible signe with the effect of grace therfore properly a Sacrament Proofe 1. Neglect not the grace that is in thee which is giuen thee by prophecie with imposition of the handes of preisthoode â—gayne 2. I admonishe thee that thou resuseitate he grace of god which is in thee by the â—mposition of my handes Further. 3. Then they fasting and praying and imposing handes vpon them dismissed them S. Ambrose vpon the wordes before cited out of the first to Timothee 4. sayth thus The imposition of handes is mysticall wordes where with the elect is confirmed to this worke receauing auctoritie his conscience bearing witnes that he may be bould in our lorde steede to offer sacrifice to god M. Bilson proueth by the auctoritie of Caluin holy orders or creating ministers as he tearmeth it to be a Sacrament which Caluin doth not only affirme but proue if the other cite him truly by these reasones because it is a visible signe with grace Protestans positions Holy orders wherby power iâ— giueÌ„ to minister other SacrameÌ„tâ— and exercise other ecclesiasticall functiones is not properly truly a Sacrament of the newe lawe OF EXTREAME vnctione THe anoylinge of the sicke with the forme of wordes ioyned ther with vsed in the Catholique Roman churche is truly and properly a Sacrament of the newe lawe Proofe It is a sensible signe with the effect of inuisible grace therfore properly a Sacrament Proofe 1. Is anie man sicke amonge you let him bring in the priestes of the churche and let them praye ouer him anoyleing â—im with oyle in the name of our lord Loe here the externall signe And â—he prayers of fayth shall saue the sick â—nd our lord shall lift him vp and if hee â—e in sinnes thei shall be remitted to him Loe here the internall grace of which S. Chrisostome saythe â—hus They to witt preistes haue auctoritie to forgiue sinnes not only when they regenerate vs but after wardes also For is anie sick amonge you â—aith the Apostle let him bringe in the Preistes c. Protestantes position The anoyleinge of the sick with the forme of wordes adioyned vsed in the Romane churche is not properly a Sacrament of the newe lawe OF MATRImonie MAtrimonie contracted betwixte christianes is not a bare ciuill contract but truly properly a SacrameÌ„t of the newe lawe Proofe It is a Symbole or signe of a holy thing with the effect of grace therfore a Sacrament For this cause shall man leaue his father mother shall cleaue to his wife they shal be two in one fleshe This is a great Sacrament I speake in Christ in the churche Note that Catholique auctores vrge not this worde Sacrament to proue that matrimonie is properly a SacrameÌ„t but to proue it a holy signe or a signe of a holy thing and therfore not a mere ciuill contract and this doth the text euidently importe declareing that the ioining together of maÌ„ woman as it is vsed in Christ his church is a Symbole or signe of the inseparable vnione aÌ„mitie of Christ his churche The effect of grace in this Sacrament is also shewed by the same wordes For matrimonie is not onely a signe of the vnione of Christe and the churche in conformitie of nature but also by spirituall charitie wher with Christ loued his churche gouerneth it holily the church doth inseperably adhere vnto Christ by faythe hope charitie and is subiect to him by obedieÌ„ce which spirituall vnione mariage cannot signifie vnles there be betwixt man and wife a spirituall vnione of mindes beside the ciuil contract and therfore the Apostle doth warne that husbandes should loue they re wiues as Christ doth his churche and that wiues should obaye they re husbandes as 〈◊〉 churche doth Christ S. Augustine to omit other fathers saythe thus of this Sacrament In the mariage of our people meaninge Christianes the holiness of the Sacrament is of more worthâ— theÌ„ the fertilitie of the wombe Agayne The good of mariage in all nationeâ— and men is in the cause of procreation and fayth of chastitie but for as muâ—â— as pertaynethe the people of god it is 〈◊〉 in the holines of the Sacrament which places besides others manifestly shewe that he speakethe of a Sacrament properly for els these sayinges were not true Protestant Position Matrimonie contracted betwixt Christianes is but a bare ciuill contract and not anie Sacrament properlye OF THE EFFECT OF the Sacraments Catholique Position 1. THe Sacrament of Baptisme as it is a Sacrament of the â—ewe lawe therfore all the SacrameÌ„ts of the newe lawe giueth grace ex opere operato or of the worke it self or is the true cause of grace in those that receaue it worthilie which is to giue grace ex opere operato or of the worke wrought and is not onely a signe or a seale of godes good will to vs or a bare meanes to stir fayth vp in vs as the preaching of the Gospell is Proofe 1. Vnless man be borne agayne of water and the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdome of god Loe here our regeneration ascribed to Baptism as to a true cause 2. Doe pennance and be euerie one of 〈◊〉 baptised in the nâ—me of Iesus Christ 〈◊〉 remissioÌ„ of your sinnes Loehere remission of sinnes atributed to baptisme as to a true cause as yf one should saye take medecin for your health The like or more
in that daye a iust iudge Vpon which wordes most excellently sayth S. Augustine explicating both the necessitie of grace that wee may merit and the iustice of reward due to merit To whom sayth he should the iust iudge render a crowne yf the mercifull father had not giuen grace howe should there be a crowne of iustices vnless grace which doth iustifie the wicked had gone before 3. God is not vniust that he should forgett your workes and loue which you haue shewed in his name which haue ministred to the sainctes and doe minister In deede great were gods iniustice if he would onely punish synnes and would not receaue good workes Sayth S. Hierome vpon these wordes The sonn of man shall come in the glorie of his father with his Angels and then will he render to euerie man according to his workes He sayth not according to his mercie sayth S. Augustin and I also add not according to fayth onely Protestantes position Good workes done in the state of grace are not meritorious of life euerlasting THE 15. CONTROuersie of freewill NOte that I speake here of freewill onli ī such things as appartayne to our saluation and not in naturall morall or indifferent actions as in eating walking or saluting others Catholique position Man through the help of gods grace which is neuer denyed him hath free will and power both to fly such euill and to doe such good as is necessarie for his saluation nor is he forced or constrayned to ether Proofe 1. He that hath determined in his harte being setled not hauing necessitie but hauing power of his owne will and iudgeth this in his hart to keepe his virgin doth well This place is cited by S. Augustin for this same purpose de gratia libero arbitrio cap. 2. 2. Come yee blessed gett yee away from me you cursed It is no incōgruitie saith S. Augustin that god should saye goe īto euer lasting fire to them that by theyr will haue repelled his mercie And to the other come yee blessed of my father that by theyr free will haue receaued fayth confessed theyr synn and done pennance He hath sett before thee water and fier to which thou wilt stretch out thy hand before man is life and death good and euill what pleaseth him shal be giuen him Behould sayth S. Augustine hauing cited these wordes we see the freedome of mans will most playnly expressed which in the begining of that chapter he promised to shewe out of holy scriptures and therfore is it manifest that he tooke this booke to be holy scripture but this by the way only He that is not satisfied with these testimonies lett him take the paynes to read S Augustin his 2. cap. of his booke of grace and free will in the. 7. tome of his workes where haueing cited aboue 20. testimonies out of the oulde and newe testament to proue mans free will he concludethe thus whith others of like sorte to witt where it is said doe not this or doe not that and where to the doeing or not doeing of anie thing the act of the will is required by gods admonition free will is sufficiently declared Of the iudgment of the most auncient church to witt of the secunde hundretho yeares after Christ heare the confession of the cēturistes these are theyr wordes There is almost no poynt of doctrine which begann so soone to be obscured as this of free will And after In like māner Clemēs doth euerie where teach free will that it may appeare not onely all the doctors of this age meaninge age after Christ to haue beene in the same darkness but also in the ages following theyr darkness did much encrease Protestant Position Man thoughe holpen by gods grace hath not freewill ether to flye anie euill or to doe anie good auayling to his saluation but in both is forced to doe that which god hath ordayned he should doe THE 16. CONTROVERsie of the possibilitie of obseruing godes commaūdements Catholique Position◠1. IT is not vnpossible for a man assisted whith gods grace to obserue and keepe all gods cōmaundements Proofe 1. The iudgments of our lorde be true iustified in them selues to be desired aboue gold and much pretious stone more sweet then the honie and the honie combe For thy seruand keepeth them in keeping them is much rewarde 2. They were both iust before god walking in all the commaundements and iustificationes of our lord whith out blame 3. Take vp my yock vpon you and learne of me c. for my yocke is sweet my burthen light And in another place His commaundements are not heauie S. Augustine sayth it being most constantly beleeued that the iust and good god could not commaunde impossible thinges we are admonished what we ought to doe in easie thinges and what to aske in hard thinges For all thinges to charitie are easie according to which it is sayd that his cōmaundementes are not heauie The diligent reader may please to see what S. Augustine writeth of this pointe in his booke de perfectione iustitiae cap 10. to 7. where for the proofe of this Catholique doctrin besides other testimonies he alledgeth that This commaundement that I commaūde the this daye is not aboue the nor so farr of c. Deutronomie cap. 30. v. 11. and. after 4. That the iustificatiō of the lawe might be fulfilled in vs. who walke not according to the fleshe but according to the spirit Loe here the lawe fulfilled by those that walke not according to the flesh Protestants position It is not possible for a man though assisted whith godes grace to obserue all godes cōmaundements THE 17. CONTROuersie Of workes of supererogation Catholique position A Man by the help of godes grace may doe many things not commaunded but onely counselled or which is the same may doe workes of supererogatiō which are of more perfection then the commaundements Proofe 1. If thou wilt be perfect goe sell the things thou hast and giue to the poore thou shalt haue treasure in heauen and come followe me Some things sayth S. Chrysostome he commaundeth some things he leaueth to our owne fre◠wil. For he sayd not sell that thou hast◠but yf thou wilt be prefect sell that thou hast much more to the same purpose hath that holy father in that place As concerning virgins a commaundement of our lord I haue not but counsell I giue as haueing obtayned mercie of our lord to be faythfull Because sayth S. Augustine by auoyding synn or obtayning remission therof life euerlasting is to he got in which there is a certayne excellēt glorie not to be giuē to all the blessed but to some certayne for the obteyning wherof it doth little auayle to be free from synn vnless somthing be vowed to our deliuerer which to haue not willed is no sinn but to haue vowed and performed is prays worthy
therfore he sayth I giue counsell as haueing obtayned mercie of god to be faythfull 3. There are euneuches which haue guelded themselues for the Kingdome of heauen he that can take lett him take Haue care of him and whatsoeuer thou shalt supererogate I will at my returne repaye thee S. Augustine alluding to these two places sayth you that yet haue not vowed who can take take runn whith perseuerance that you may obayne take euerie one his sacrifices and enter into our lordes court not of necessitie but hauing power of yor owne will For as it is said thou shalt not kill it cannot so be sayd thou shalt not marrie For these things are exacted they are profered yf they be done they are commended yf thother be not done they are condemned in these thinges god coÌ„maundeth a debt in those what you shall supererogate or bestowe more he will render at is returne with much more to the same purpose in the whole booke where he proueth virginitie to be onely a counsell to be more perfect then wedlok and to haue a greater glorie in the next life But for the Doctrine of the auÌ„cient churche in this poynt I neede no other witnesse then Mr. Caluins owne confession set downe in these wordes This say they hath from furthest memorie beene obserued that they which would dedicate them selues wholy to our lord should bynde them selues with the vowe of continencie I graunt indeed that this maner hath also beene of ancient tyme receaued but I doe not graunt that that age was so free from all fault that what soeuer was done might bee taken for a rule Protestantes Position No man though assisted with gods grace can doe anie workes of supererogation or of counsell nether are there anie councelles of more perfection then the coÌ„maundementes THE 18. CONTROVERsie Of Preistes not Marrying Catholique Position IT is most conformable to the Doctrine of holy scriptures and practise of the auncient churche that all Preistes and other church men should vowe perpetuall chastitie And leade a single life Proofe 1. I woulde haue you without carefulness he that is with out a wife is carefull for the things that pertaine to our lorde how he may please god But he that is with a wife is carefull for the things that pertayne to the world howe be may please his wife and he is deuided 2. No man being a souldier to god intaÌ„glâ—â— ethe himself with secular businesses that he may please him to whome he hath approoued him self After the dayes of is office were expired he departed into his owne howse It is playne hereby ells where that the Preistes of the ould lawe did abstayne from theyr wiues during the tyme of theyr ofice which they exercised by turnes Yf thou haue aniething at hand yea yf but fiue loaues giue me or what soeuer thou shalt fynde the preist answered Dauid saying I haue no laye breades at hand but onely holy bread yf the seruantes be cleane especially from weomen And Dauid answered the preist and say de to him And truly yf the matter be concerniÌ„g weomen we haue refrayned our selues from yesterdaye and the day before Now yf such cleanesse euen â—â—om the law full vse of weomen was required in laye men to eate the hallowed bread of the owld lawe which was but a bare figure of that which is offered in the newe lawe what cleaness may we think is required in Preistes them selues of the newe lawe For the practice of the auncient church in this poynt I will onely alledge the 2. Councell of Carthage where S. Augustine was preseÌ„t which sayth thus It pleaseth all that Bishopes preistes and Deacones abstayne from wyues that we may also obserue that which the Apostles taught and antiquitie obserued Protestantes positions It is contrarie to the doctrine of holy Scripture practice of the auncient primitiue church that preistes and other church men should vowe chastitie and leade a single life THE 19. CONTROVERsie Of the churche seruice in the learned tongues Catholique position IT is no where forbidden in holy Scripture that the publique Seruice of godes churche should be in a tounge not vnderderstood to all the assistantes Proofe No such prohibition appeareth in all the Scripture Yea the practise of the contrarie is euidently gathered out of these wordes According to the custoÌ„e of the preistlye function he went forth by lott to offer incense entering into the temple of the lord And all the multitude of the people was praying with out at the hower of the incense Loe here the people did not vnderstand nether the prayers nor the actions of the preist yet neuer the less did they participate of both The same is more expresly coÌ„maunded in these wordes Let no man be in the tabernacle when the highe preist goeth in to the sanctuarie to pray for him self and for his howse and for the whole assembly of Israël vntil he come forthe nether doth that of S. Paule yf thou bless in the spirit he that supplieth the place of the Vulgar howe shall he say Amen vpon thy blessing bycause he knowethe not what thou sayest nor anie thing iÌ„ all that chapter make anie more against the practis of the romaÌ„ churche in this point then it doth against that of the Iewishe churche now menrioned S. Paul speaking not of the ordinarie publique receaued and established churche seruice werof all the assistantes are parttakers because it is performed by the preist a publique officer in all theyr behalfes thaugh they vnderstande not the wordes nor see the actions done by the preist but of certaiÌ„e perticuler exhortationes hymes Psalmes and other holy good things vttered by particuler personnes haueing the gifte of tongues which being not vnderstood of others haâ— no other fruit then the edification of the speaker and that nether to his instruction for often tymes he vnderstood not him self but to an eleuation of his mynde or spirit to god as appeareth by that For yf I pray with tongue my spirit prayeth but my vndersting is with out fruite Therfore S. paule would that these exercises showld be vsed with much moderation and in good order but forbiddeth them not Therfore that which he sayth of that matter toucheth nothing â—he publique seruice of the church which the perpetuall practice of the same church a sure rule to all those that desire to be gods children doth shew to be most coÌ„uenieÌ„tly celebrated in the learned tounges Agaynst which yf anie will wrangle or be contentiouse we aunswere theÌ„ as S. Paule doth theyr like in another occatione we haue no such custome nor the church of god Protestantes position It is forbidden in holy scrypture that the publique seruice of the church should be in a tongue not vnderstoode by all the assistants Haueing as thou seest iudicious reader gone throughe al or at least all the cheef poynts of controuersie of these tymes and proued theÌ„ by express scripture