there_o to_o sit_v so_o we_o place_v not_o the_o supremacy_n among_o the_o jew_n in_o jerusalem_n consider_v apart_o from_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi but_o in_o the_o synedrion_n itself_o which_o be_v there_o seat_v but_o because_o our_o reverend_a brother_n in_o the_o latter_a end_n of_o this_o 16_o the_o objection_n bring_v in_o this_o particular_a of_o jerusalem_n supremacy_n by_o reason_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n with_o other_o say_v therefore_o i_o conceive_v he_o intend_v not_o we_o therein_o but_o some_o body_n else_o and_o therefore_o i_o will_v proceed_v to_o the_o next_o wherein_n ourselves_o be_v concern_v chap._n vii_o whether_o the_o lawfulness_n or_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v do_v prove_v a_o superiority_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o synod_n over_o congregation_n and_o of_o sundry_a say_n of_o our_o author_n which_o seem_v to_o interfere_v in_o his_o page_n 422._o he_o propound_v a_o 19_o the_o objection_n to_o this_o effect_n if_o the_o government_n of_o consociate_v church_n be_v warrant_v by_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n than_o this_o light_n of_o nature_n be_v common_a to_o we_o in_o civil_a as_o in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n it_o will_v follow_v that_o every_o city_n govern_v with_o ruler_n within_o itself_o must_v be_v subordinate_a to_o a_o class_n of_o many_o city_n and_o that_o class_n to_o a_o national_n meet_v of_o all_o the_o city_n and_o the_o national_n government_n to_o be_v a_o catholic_a or_o oecumenicke_n civil_a court_n and_o because_o by_o the_o same_o light_n of_o nature_n there_o must_v be_v some_o final_a and_o supreme_a judgement_n of_o controversy_n lest_o appeal_v shall_v be_v spin_v out_o in_o infinitum_fw-la it_o must_v be_v prove_v that_o this_o supremacy_n lie_v not_o in_o a_o congregation_n and_o in_o the_o margin_n he_o cit_v mr._n tompson_n and_o myself_o in_o page_n 16_o and_o page_z 10_o of_o the_o answer_n as_o author_n of_o this_o last_o bassis_fw-la in_o the_o oâ—ectjection_n answ_n it_o be_v true_a that_o in_o one_o of_o those_o page_n allege_v we_o speak_v to_o the_o like_a purpose_n as_o here_o be_v report_v for_o we_o there_o suppose_v it_o to_o be_v clear_a by_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o there_o must_v be_v some_o final_a and_o supreme_a judgement_n of_o cause_n and_o that_o unless_o it_o be_v determine_v where_o that_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v which_o we_o account_v the_o very_a thing_n in_o question_n we_o say_v the_o usefulness_n and_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v may_v be_v grant_v and_o yet_o we_o shall_v be_v still_o at_o uncertainty_n about_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o as_o much_o to_o seek_v as_o before_o because_o that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v appeal_n till_o you_o come_v to_o the_o high_a be_v one_o thing_n and_o that_o a_o synod_n and_o not_o a_o congregation_n be_v the_o high_a be_v another_o to_o this_o purpose_n we_o have_v write_v in_o one_o of_o those_o page_n the_o sum_n whereof_o be_v this_o much_o that_o though_o the_o usefulness_n of_o appeal_v till_o you_o come_v to_o the_o high_a be_v grant_v yet_o the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n over_o congregation_n in_o matter_n of_o judicature_n be_v not_o conclude_v thereby_o now_o what_o do_v our_o reverend_a brother_n return_v in_o his_o answer_n do_v he_o prove_v the_o contrary_a to_o what_o be_v here_o affirm_v by_o we_o do_v he_o clear_v it_o sufficient_o that_o if_o it_o be_v once_o grant_v that_o there_o must_v be_v appeal_v till_o you_o come_v to_o the_o high_a than_o the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n over_o congregation_n must_v inevitable_o follow_v i_o conceive_v the_o necessity_n of_o this_o consequence_n have_v need_v to_o be_v clear_v if_o that_o which_o we_o have_v say_v be_v sufficient_o answer_v but_o do_v our_o brother_n clear_v this_o or_o do_v he_o so_o much_o as_o once_o attempt_v the_o clear_n thereof_o sure_o to_o speak_v free_o what_o i_o find_v i_o find_v nothing_o that_o look_v that_o way_n and_o therefore_o can_v but_o wonder_v why_o our_o opinion_n shall_v be_v allege_v in_o this_o objection_n and_o so_o his_o reader_n be_v lead_v into_o expectation_n of_o some_o sufficient_a answer_n thereto_o and_o then_o the_o answer_n which_o he_o return_v to_o be_v take_v up_o in_o other_o matter_n our_o opinion_n propose_v in_o the_o objection_n be_v whole_o in_o his_o answer_n leave_v untouched_a if_o that_o say_n of_o we_o be_v not_o sound_a why_o do_v he_o not_o return_v some_o answer_n if_o it_o be_v sound_a and_o good_a why_o do_v he_o make_v a_o objection_n of_o it_o and_o so_o breed_v a_o apprehension_n in_o weak_a reader_n of_o its_o unsoundnesse_n and_o put_v they_o in_o hope_n of_o a_o confutation_n when_o no_o such_o thing_n be_v perform_v i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o wise_a in_o heart_n to_o consider_v what_o this_o do_v argue_v nevertheless_o let_v we_o consider_v of_o what_o he_o do_v return_v for_o answer_n page_n 423._o first_o he_o say_v appeal_v be_v warrant_v by_o the_o counsel_n which_o jethro_n give_v to_o moses_n can_v but_o be_v natural_a answ_n suppose_v this_o be_v so_o what_o can_v there_o be_v conclude_v hence_o that_o make_v against_o we_o can_v appeal_n be_v natural_a but_o the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n over_o congregation_n must_v needs_o follow_v if_o there_o must_v be_v a_o high_a must_v it_o needs_o be_v yield_v that_o the_o synod_n and_o not_o the_o congregation_n be_v that_o high_a i_o conceive_v this_o need_v not_o to_o be_v yield_v at_o all_o and_o therefore_o though_o appeal_v be_v natural_a i_o see_v not_o what_o be_v gain_v thereby_o again_o he_o say_v god_n have_v appoint_v that_o the_o supremacy_n shall_v lie_v within_o the_o bound_n of_o every_o free_a monarchy_n or_o state_n so_o that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o appeal_v to_o any_o ecumenical_a or_o catholic_a civil_a church_n for_o that_o be_v against_o the_o independent_a power_n that_o god_n have_v give_v to_o state_n answ_n let_v this_o be_v grant_v also_o and_o be_v we_o not_o still_o where_o we_o be_v before_o be_v there_o in_o this_o any_o thing_n at_o all_o that_o do_v make_v for_o the_o removal_n of_o our_o opinion_n as_o himself_o have_v see_v it_o down_o in_o his_o objection_n we_o may_v true_o say_v we_o see_v it_o not_o no_o nor_o in_o that_o which_o do_v follow_v viz._n but_o in_o the_o church_n it_o be_v far_o otherwise_o for_o god_n have_v appoint_v no_o vissible_a monarchy_n in_o his_o church_n nor_o no_o such_o independency_n of_o policy_n within_o a_o congregation_n classical_a provincial_n or_o national_n church_n answ_n for_o that_o which_o be_v say_v of_o a_o visible_a monarchy_n in_o the_o church_n i_o confess_v it_o be_v true_a god_n have_v appoint_v none_o such_o but_o for_o the_o rest_n of_o these_o word_n since_o they_o contain_v a_o express_a denial_n of_o the_o supremacy_n of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a judicature_n except_o it_o be_v the_o general_a council_n i_o will_v glad_o know_v how_o our_o tenent_n afore_o express_v be_v disprove_v or_o how_o the_o necessity_n of_o that_o consequence_n afore_o mention_v be_v at_o all_o clear_v hereby_o if_o there_o be_v no_o independency_n of_o policy_n in_o congregation_n nor_o yet_o in_o any_o synod_n except_o it_o be_v the_o ecumenical_a do_v this_o prove_v that_o the_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v in_o synod_n and_o not_o in_o the_o congregation_n nothing_o less_o for_o how_o can_v our_o brother_n prove_v that_o it_o lie_v in_o the_o one_o and_o not_o in_o the_o other_o by_o say_v as_o here_o he_o do_v that_o indeed_o it_o lie_v in_o neither_o or_o how_o be_v that_o consequence_n make_v good_a that_o if_o there_o must_v be_v appeal_n till_o we_o come_v to_o the_o high_a than_o the_o synod_n be_v the_o high_a how_o be_v this_o i_o say_v make_v good_a by_o affirm_v that_o neither_o the_o congregation_n nor_o the_o synod_n be_v the_o high_a for_o my_o part_n i_o must_v confess_v it_o pass_v my_o understanding_n to_o conceive_v how_o the_o deny_v of_o a_o thing_n shall_v be_v the_o prove_v and_o clear_n thereof_o and_o yet_o except_o this_o be_v admit_v i_o know_v not_o how_o our_o apprehension_n in_o the_o matter_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n be_v at_o all_o disprove_v for_o whereas_o we_o say_v appeal_v may_v be_v grant_v and_o yet_o the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n over_o congregation_n will_v not_o follow_v mr._n rutherford_n for_o the_o disprove_v of_o what_o we_o apprehend_v herein_o do_v bring_v nothing_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n but_o only_o this_o that_o the_o supremacy_n do_v neither_o lie_n in_o the_o congregation_n nor_o in_o the_o synod_n which_o be_v no_o disprove_v of_o we_o all_o except_o as_o i_o say_v that_o the_o deny_v of_o a_o thing_n may_v suffice_v for_o the_o confirm_v and_o clear_n thereof_o for_o i_o conceive_v if_o we_o be_v disprove_v the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n must_v be_v prove_v
conceive_v be_v very_o true_o speak_v and_o thereupon_o it_o follow_v that_o there_o be_v a_o supremacy_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o that_o church_n of_o antioch_n and_o no_o necessity_n of_o appeal_n from_o they_o to_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o other_o for_o â—ith_o the_o synod_n be_v only_o to_o command_v the_o church_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n and_o to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o offender_n to_o the_o church_n themselves_o to_o who_o the_o offender_n belong_v it_o plain_o appear_v thereby_o where_o the_o supremacy_n of_o jurisdiction_n do_v lie_v the_o other_o place_n be_v in_o his_o page_n 307._o where_o we_o have_v these_o word_n viz._n the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n ordinary_a intensive_a and_o quo_fw-la ad_fw-la essentiam_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la ministerialis_fw-la according_a to_o the_o entire_a essence_n of_o a_o ministerial_a church_n be_v as_o perfect_a and_o complete_a in_o one_o single_a congregation_n as_o in_o a_o provincial_n as_o in_o a_o national_n yea_o as_o in_o the_o catholic_a visible_a body_n whereof_o christ_n be_v the_o head_n now_o if_o there_o be_v such_o perfect_a &_o complete_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o a_o single_a congregation_n i_o know_v not_o how_o there_o can_v be_v such_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v from_o they_o to_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o other_o as_o he_o be_v plead_v for_o nor_o how_o that_o supreme_a and_o independent_a power_n in_o congregation_n can_v be_v deny_v which_o here_o he_o dispute_v against_o for_o let_v this_o complete_a and_o perfect_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v acknowledge_v as_o due_a to_o such_o church_n and_o appeal_v from_o they_o to_o other_o jurisdiction_n will_v be_v of_o small_a necessity_n or_o use_n i_o know_v indeed_o this_o reverend_a author_n say_v in_o the_o page_n last_o mention_v and_o within_o a_o few_o line_n of_o the_o word_n which_o i_o have_v here_o allege_v that_o a_o congregation_n be_v so_o a_o part_n of_o the_o presbytery_n that_o it_o have_v not_o a_o whole_a entire_a complete_a intensive_a power_n over_o its_o own_o member_n to_o excommunicate_v they_o and_o therefore_o the_o consociate_v church_n must_v have_v a_o power_n over_o the_o member_n of_o a_o congregation_n which_o word_n i_o confess_v seem_v not_o well_o to_o agree_v with_o the_o former_a because_o in_o the_o one_o entire_a complete_a intensive_a power_n be_v deny_v to_o a_o congregation_n and_o in_o the_o other_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n ordinary_a intensive_a be_v say_v to_o be_v as_o complete_a and_o perfect_a in_o the_o congregation_n as_o in_o the_o great_a church_n but_o it_o be_v not_o the_o latter_a word_n but_o the_o former_a which_o i_o do_v stand_v upon_o and_o by_o they_o as_o i_o conceive_v the_o supremacy_n of_o congregation_n be_v establish_v and_o the_o necessity_n of_o appeal_n from_o they_o to_o other_o jurisdiction_n be_v clear_o take_v away_o for_o if_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v as_o entire_a perfect_a and_o complete_a in_o the_o congregation_n as_o in_o the_o great_a church_n as_o our_o brother_n express_o affirm_v it_o to_o be_v i_o know_v not_o the_o reason_n why_o there_o must_v be_v appeal_n from_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o the_o congregation_n unto_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o those_o other_o church_n if_o the_o power_n speak_v of_o be_v more_o imperfect_a and_o incomplete_a in_o the_o congregation_n than_o it_o be_v in_o the_o other_o church_n than_o there_o may_v be_v more_o reason_n or_o fair_a pretence_n for_o those_o appeal_n but_o since_o our_o author_n confess_v it_o be_v no_o more_o entire_a complete_a and_o perfect_a in_o these_o then_o in_o the_o congregation_n but_o as_o complete_a and_o perfect_a in_o the_o congregation_n as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o other_o i_o be_o yet_o to_o seek_v of_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o the_o necessity_n of_o appeal_n from_o the_o jurisdiction_n in_o a_o congregation_n for_o be_v it_o reasonable_a to_o appeal_v from_o one_o judicatory_a to_o another_o and_o yet_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v as_o entire_a complete_a and_o perfect_a in_o the_o former_a from_o which_o the_o appeal_n be_v make_v as_o in_o the_o latter_a to_o which_o the_o cause_n be_v bring_v by_o such_o appeal_n it_o seem_v by_o such_o appeal_v we_o be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v much_o helper_n nor_o much_o to_o mend_v the_o matter_n above_o what_o it_o be_v before_o and_o therefore_o the_o usefulness_n and_o necessity_n thereof_o be_v still_o unclâ—â—â—â—_n i_o think_v the_o brethren_n err_v in_o this_o to_o teach_v that_o antioch_n have_v power_n to_o determine_v the_o controversy_n act._n 15._o when_o the_o church_n of_o syria_n and_o cicilia_n to_o their_o knowledge_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a question_n as_o verse_n 24._o may_v clear_v i_o doubt_v much_o if_o they_o have_v power_n to_o determine_v a_o question_n that_o so_o much_o concern_v all_o the_o church_n answ_n it_o be_v not_o clear_a from_o verse_n 24._o nor_o from_o any_o part_n of_o the_o chapter_n as_o far_o as_o i_o can_v find_v that_o antioch_n do_v know_v that_o other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o this_o question_n and_o if_o they_o have_v know_v it_o i_o see_v nothing_o therein_o but_o they_o may_v notwithstanding_o lawful_o end_v the_o matter_n so_o far_o as_o concern_v themselves_o for_o when_o this_o question_n be_v start_v among_o they_o by_o such_o as_o come_v from_o judea_n and_o teach_v this_o corrupt_a doctrine_n at_o antioch_n the_o text_n be_v very_o clear_a verse_n 2_o that_o they_o have_v much_o disputation_n among_o themselves_o to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n afore_o there_o be_v any_o speech_n of_o send_v to_o jerusalem_n which_o disputation_n be_v a_o argument_n that_o they_o have_v right_a to_o have_v end_v it_o if_o ability_n have_v noâ—_n be_v want_v and_o as_o for_o our_o brother_n reason_n for_o the_o contrary_n take_v from_o their_o knowledge_n that_o the_o other_o church_n of_o syria_n and_o cicilia_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a question_n there_o be_v not_o one_o word_n in_o the_o verse_n allege_v to_o show_v that_o antioch_n have_v knowledge_n of_o any_o such_o matter_n nor_o be_v syria_n and_o cicilia_n once_o mention_v therein_o and_o though_o they_o be_v mention_v verse_n 23._o yet_o neither_o do_v this_o verse_n declare_v that_o antioch_n have_v any_o knowledge_n that_o this_o question_n have_v ever_o trouble_v those_o other_o church_n say_v it_o be_v true_a that_o indeed_o they_o have_v be_v trouble_v therewith_o and_o that_o the_o epistle_n from_o the_o synod_n do_v intimate_v no_o less_o this_o may_v prove_v that_o when_o the_o epistle_n come_v to_o be_v read_v at_o antioch_n than_o antioch_n by_o this_o mean_n may_v come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n thereof_o but_o all_o this_o do_v not_o prove_v that_o antioch_n know_v so_o much_o afore_o and_o therefore_o they_o may_v endeavour_v to_o end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o as_o not_o know_v for_o any_o thing_n our_o author_n have_v yet_o bring_v to_o the_o contrary_a that_o any_o other_o church_n beside_o themselves_o be_v trouble_v therewith_o but_o suppose_v they_o have_v know_v so_o much_o i_o see_v nothing_o in_o this_o to_o hinder_v but_o antioch_n may_v lawful_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n in_o the_o question_n and_o censure_v such_o of_o their_o church_n as_o shall_v obstinate_o hold_v and_o teach_v that_o false_a doctrine_n notwithstanding_o their_o knowledge_n that_o other_o have_v be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a doctrine_n and_o teacher_n suppose_v a_o christian_a family_n be_v trouble_v with_o lie_a child_n or_o servant_n or_o such_o as_o be_v disobedient_a and_o undutiful_a in_o one_o kind_n or_o in_o another_o suppose_v they_o also_o know_v that_o their_o neighbour_n family_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a shall_v this_o knowledge_n of_o they_o hinder_v the_o parent_n or_o master_n in_o such_o a_o family_n from_o censure_v or_o correct_v these_o that_o be_v under_o their_o government_n according_a to_o their_o demerit_n if_o not_o why_o shall_v antioch_n be_v hinder_v from_o censure_a offend_a member_n of_o their_o church_n only_o upon_o this_o ground_n because_o to_o their_o knowledge_n other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a offender_n a_o city_n or_o corporation_n be_v trouble_v with_o drunkard_n with_o thief_n or_o other_o vicious_a and_o lewd_a person_n and_o know_v that_o other_o city_n or_o corporation_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a a_o national_n church_n as_o scotland_n for_o example_n be_v trouble_v with_o obtruder_n of_o ceremony_n service_n book_n episcopacy_n or_o other_o corruption_n and_o know_v that_o england_n or_o other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a shall_v scotland_n now_o be_v hinder_v from_o remove_v these_o corruption_n and_o the_o obtruder_n of_o they_o from_o among_o themselves_o only_o upon_o this_o ground_n because_o england_n to_o their_o knowledge_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a or_o shall_v the_o corporation_n â—ee_z hinder_v from_o
punish_v thief_n and_o such_o other_o malefactor_n only_o for_o this_o reason_n because_o to_o their_o knowledge_n other_o corporation_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a lewd_a person_n i_o suppose_v it_o be_v easy_a to_o see_v the_o insufficiency_n and_o invalidity_n of_o such_o consequence_n and_o therefore_o if_o antioch_n do_v know_v that_o other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a offender_n as_o themselves_o be_v trouble_v withal_o this_o need_v not_o to_o hinder_v but_o they_o may_v determine_v question_n that_o arise_v among_o themselves_o and_o may_v censure_v such_o of_o their_o member_n as_o shall_v trouble_v the_o church_n or_o brethren_n therewith_o and_o obstinate_o persist_v in_o so_o do_v this_o be_v consider_v withal_o that_o in_o thus_o do_v they_o do_v not_o go_v beyond_o their_o line_n nor_o meddle_v with_o matter_n any_o far_o but_o as_o they_o be_v within_o their_o compass_n for_o when_o divers_a church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a corruption_n in_o doctrine_n or_o practice_n and_o some_o one_o of_o those_o church_n by_o use_v the_o key_n of_o doctrine_n or_o discipline_n or_o both_o do_v endeavour_v the_o removal_n of_o these_o corruption_n they_o do_v not_o hereby_o attempt_v and_o endeavour_v to_o remove_v they_o out_o of_o other_o church_n which_o may_v be_v a_o appearance_n of_o stretch_v their_o line_n beyond_o their_o compass_n but_o out_o of_o their_o own_o church_n and_o only_o so_o far_o as_o concern_v themselves_o and_o in_o so_o do_v no_o man_n can_v just_o say_v they_o meddle_v further_o than_o their_o power_n do_v reach_v but_o he_o give_v another_o reason_n why_o antioch_n have_v not_o right_a to_o determine_v the_o question_n and_o this_o be_v take_v from_o the_o strong_a party_n that_o be_v in_o antioch_n against_o the_o truth_n which_o be_v such_o as_o that_o they_o oppose_v paul_n and_o barnabas_n concern_v which_o he_o say_v that_o when_o the_o great_a part_n of_o a_o church_n as_o antioch_n be_v against_o the_o truth_n as_o be_v clear_a act._n 15._o 2._o he_o believe_v in_o that_o they_o lose_v their_o jus_o their_o right_n to_o determine_v eatenus_fw-la in_o so_o far_o for_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o ecclesiastical_a right_n and_o power_n to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n but_o only_o for_o truth_n and_o therefore_o in_o this_o appeal_v must_v be_v necessary_a answ_n how_o be_v it_o clear_a that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o church_n at_o antioch_n be_v against_o the_o truth_n the_o text_n do_v not_o say_v so_o much_o but_o only_o this_o that_o certain_a man_n which_o come_v from_o judea_n teach_v the_o brethren_n and_o say_v except_o you_o be_v circumcise_a you_o can_v be_v save_v and_o that_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n have_v no_o small_a dissension_n and_o disputation_n with_o they_o about_o the_o matter_n and_o that_o in_o the_o issue_n they_o determine_v that_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n and_o certain_a other_o shall_v go_v up_o to_o jerusalem_n about_o the_o question_n thus_o much_o the_o scripture_n witness_v act._n 15._o 1_o 2._o but_o whether_o they_o that_o hold_v that_o corrupt_a doctrine_n at_o antioch_n be_v the_o major_a or_o the_o minor_a part_n of_o the_o church_n the_o text_n do_v not_o express_v except_o we_o shall_v say_v that_o where_o a_o false_a doctrine_n be_v teach_v by_o some_o and_o great_o oppose_v and_o dispute_v against_o by_o other_o there_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v that_o the_o great_a part_n be_v taint_v with_o that_o false_a doctrine_n which_o we_o think_v be_v no_o good_a consequence_n and_o therefore_o whereas_o our_o author_n say_v the_o great_a part_n of_o this_o church_n be_v against_o the_o truth_n and_o that_o so_o much_o be_v clear_a from_o verse_n 2._o i_o answer_v first_o that_o i_o do_v not_o perceive_v this_o clearness_n neither_o from_o verse_n 2_o nor_o from_o any_o other_o place_n of_o the_o chapter_n next_o suppose_v this_o be_v clear_a this_o may_v argue_v that_o they_o want_v ability_n and_o light_n to_o end_v the_o matter_n but_o must_v it_o need_v argue_v that_o they_o want_v right_a though_o they_o have_v be_v able_a or_o shall_v we_o say_v that_o they_o who_o want_v ability_n to_o do_v thing_n as_o they_o shall_v be_v do_v do_v therefore_o want_v right_a to_o â—â—alâ—_n in_o they_o at_o all_o i_o conceive_v it_o will_v not_o follow_v and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o this_o right_n in_o church_n be_v natural_a or_o connaturall_a to_o every_o church_n and_o this_o want_n of_o ability_n be_v only_o accidental_a and_o therefore_o this_o latter_a can_v total_o hinder_v the_o former_a that_o light_n of_o government_n be_v natural_a or_o connaturall_a to_o every_o church_n our_o brother_n own_o word_n do_v testify_v page_n 341._o where_o he_o say_v this_o viz._n suppose_v that_o christ_n have_v a_o visible_a church_n it_o be_v moral_a that_o she_o have_v power_n of_o government_n also_o in_o so_o far_o as_o she_o be_v a_o church_n yea_o power_n of_o government_n upon_o this_o supposition_n be_v natural_a or_o rather_o connaturall_a and_o in_o page_n 307_o he_o say_v as_o be_v allege_v before_o that_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n ordinary_a intensive_a be_v as_o perfect_a and_o complete_a in_o one_o single_a congregation_n as_o in_o a_o provincial_n or_o in_o a_o national_n yea_o as_o in_o the_o catholic_a visible_a body_n whereof_o christ_n be_v the_o head_n and_o in_o page_n 383._o he_o say_v that_o to_o a_o congregation_n christ_n have_v give_v by_o a_o immediate_a flux_n from_o himself_o a_o political_a church_n power_n intrinsciâ—ally_o in_o it_o derive_v from_o none_o but_o immediate_o from_o jesus_n christ_n and_o the_o like_a he_o say_v of_o a_o presbyterial_a church_n now_o whether_o antioch_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n as_o we_o hold_v or_o a_o presbyterial_a as_o be_v hold_v by_o this_o our_o brother_n yet_o it_o be_v clear_a by_o those_o word_n of_o his_o here_o allege_a that_o be_v essential_o a_o church_n it_o have_v a_o political_a church_n power_n intrinscical_o within_o itself_o yet_o a_o perfect_a and_o complete_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n yea_o and_o such_o a_o power_n as_o be_v natural_a or_o connaturall_a unto_o she_o as_o she_o be_v a_o church_n but_o now_o the_o light_n of_o knowledge_n whereby_o they_o shall_v be_v enable_v well_o to_o use_v this_o power_n do_v not_o add_v any_o power_n unto_o they_o which_o they_o have_v not_o before_o not_o do_v the_o want_n of_o it_o be_v but_o accidental_a deprive_v they_o of_o that_o power_n which_o be_v intrinscicall_a essential_a and_o connaturall_a unto_o they_o as_o they_o be_v a_o church_n of_o christ_n only_o this_o want_n do_v hinder_v their_o ability_n to_o express_v their_o power_n well_o but_o their_o right_n as_o be_v a_o thing_n connaturall_a do_v still_o remain_v our_o brother_n have_v a_o say_n or_o two_o about_o the_o civil_a power_n which_o by_o proportion_n may_v well_o illustrate_v this_o that_o i_o be_o speak_v okubo_n it_o the_o church-power_n in_o one_o place_n he_o say_v thus_o there_o be_v a_o twofold_a power_n in_o a_o king_n one_o in_o a_o king_n as_o a_o king_n and_o this_o be_v a_o like_a in_o all_o and_o ordinary_a regal_a coactive_a whether_o the_o king_n be_v a_o heathen_a a_o turk_n or_o a_o sound_n believe_v christian_n there_o be_v another_o power_n in_o a_o king_n as_o such_o a_o king_n either_o as_o a_o prophetical_a king_n as_o david_n and_o solomon_n or_o as_o a_o christian_a believe_v king_n and_o of_o this_o latter_a he_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o a_o new_a regal_a power_n but_o potestas_fw-la execuliba_fw-la a_o power_n or_o gracious_a ability_n to_o execute_v the_o kingly_a power_n which_o he_o have_v before_o as_o a_o king_n page_n 387._o etc._n etc._n 388._o â—ow_o why_o may_v it_o not_o be_v say_v in_o like_a sort_n there_o be_v in_o a_o church_n twofold_a power_n one_o in_o a_o church_n as_o it_o be_v a_o church_n and_o this_o be_v a_o like_a in_o all_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n whether_o the_o church_n in_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a question_n have_v light_a to_o discern_v and_o hold_v the_o truth_n or_o otherwise_o another_o in_o a_o church_n as_o it_o be_v sound_a believe_a church_n hold_v the_o truth_n in_o such_o or_o such_o question_n and_o this_o be_v but_o only_o a_o gracious_a ability_n to_o exercise_v the_o power_n which_o they_o have_v before_o not_o add_v to_o they_o any_o new_a power_n at_o all_o again_o in_o his_o page_n 393._o he_o have_v these_o word_n though_o the_o king_n be_v not_o a_o christian_a magistrate_n yet_o have_v he_o a_o kingly_a power_n to_o command_v man_n as_o christian_n and_o it_o be_v by_o accident_n that_o he_o can_v in_o that_o state_n command_v christian_n duty_n and_o service_n to_o christ_n because_o he_o will_v not_o and_o can_v command_v those_o duty_n remain_v ignorant_a of_o christ_n
reason_n which_o do_v show_v that_o the_o jew_n and_o they_o be_v very_o unlike_a the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cruse_n and_o they_o have_v none_o be_v to_o show_v ourselves_o very_o irrational_a or_o worse_o end_v why_o our_o brother_n shall_v put_v such_o a_o thing_n upon_o we_o we_o be_v no_o way_n guilty_a thereof_o we_o do_v not_o know_v but_o we_o desire_v that_o our_o reason_n may_v be_v apply_v to_o our_o own_o conclusion_n to_o which_o we_o do_v and_o do_v apply_v it_o and_o not_o to_o this_o other_o express_v by_o our_o brother_n which_o indeed_o be_v none_o of_o we_o and_o then_o we_o be_v content_v that_o rational_a and_o judicious_a reader_n may_v judge_v whether_o or_o no_o there_o be_v any_o sufficient_a weight_n therein_o which_o that_o they_o may_v more_o ready_o do_v i_o have_v here_o recollect_v the_o same_o into_o this_o short_a sum_n that_o they_o may_v brief_o behold_v it_o with_o one_o view_n viz_o if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o congregationall_a way_n have_v the_o like_a if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o stand_v judicatory_a always_o in_o readiness_n for_o the_o hear_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o congregationall_a way_n have_v the_o like_a and_o if_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a among_o the_o jew_n be_v very_o far_o remote_a from_o many_o of_o they_o and_o in_o the_o congregationall_a way_n be_v more_o convenient_a and_o near_o at_o hand_n than_o the_o congregationall_a way_n be_v in_o some_o thing_n equal_a to_o the_o jew_n and_o in_o other_o thing_n more_o excellent_a but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a in_o all_o the_o particular_n and_o therefore_o the_o second_o be_v true_a also_o again_o if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n have_v not_o if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o stand_v judicatory_a always_o in_o readiness_n for_o the_o hear_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n have_v not_o and_o if_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a among_o the_o jew_n be_v very_o remote_a from_o many_o of_o they_o and_o synod_n among_o our_o brethren_n be_v the_o same_o than_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n be_v in_o some_o thing_n as_o defective_a as_o the_o jew_n and_o in_o other_o thing_n more_o defective_a than_o they_o but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a in_o all_o the_o particular_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o the_o second_o be_v true_a also_o both_o the_o assumption_n in_o all_o the_o branch_n thereof_o i_o conceive_v be_v clear_o prove_v in_o the_o answer_n in_o the_o page_n which_o our_o brother_n do_v allege_v and_o whether_o the_o consequence_n be_v good_a let_v the_o wise_a judge_n have_v thus_o reduce_v our_o argumentation_n to_o its_o own_o proper_a and_o genuine_a shape_n let_v we_o now_o consider_v of_o mr._n rutherford_n answer_v thereto_o first_o say_v he_o the_o speediness_n of_o end_v controversy_n in_o a_o congregation_n be_v bad_o comprise_v with_o the_o suddenness_n and_o temerity_n of_o deliver_v man_n to_o satan_n upon_o the_o decision_n of_o three_o elder_n without_o so_o much_o as_o ask_v advise_v of_o any_o class_n of_o elder_n and_o with_o decide_v question_n deep_a and_o grave_a which_o concern_v many_o church_n which_o be_v a_o put_n of_o a_o private_a sickle_n in_o a_o common_a and_o public_a harvest_n answ_n if_o advise_v from_o other_o church_n may_v be_v have_v we_o never_o speak_v word_n for_o do_v weighty_a matter_n without_o the_o same_o but_o in_o such_o case_n it_o be_v both_o our_o practice_n and_o advise_v to_o make_v use_n thereof_o and_o therefore_o this_o deliver_v man_n to_o satan_n in_o way_n of_o temerity_n or_o rashness_n touch_v not_o we_o who_o opinion_n and_o practice_n be_v other_o wise_a as_o for_o suddenness_n i_o conceive_v if_o the_o same_o be_v sometime_o accompany_v with_o temerity_n and_o rashness_n and_o so_o worthy_a to_o be_v blame_v yet_o not_o always_o for_o in_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o house_n of_o god_n in_o the_o day_n of_o hezekiah_n it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o thing_n be_v do_v sudden_o 2_o chron._n 29._o 36._o where_o suddenness_n do_v not_o signify_v any_o sinful_a temerity_n or_o râ—shnesle_n but_o contrary_o do_v testify_v god_n great_a goodnesle_n that_o have_v so_o prepare_v the_o people_n to_o so_o good_a a_o work_n for_o this_o cause_n this_o suddenness_n be_v to_o hezekiah_n and_o god_n people_n a_o occasion_n and_o ground_n of_o great_a joy_n and_o gladness_n which_o temerity_n can_v not_o have_v be_v and_o therefore_o suddenness_n and_o temerity_n must_v not_o always_o be_v confound_v and_o couple_v together_o as_o if_o they_o be_v the_o same_o though_o hasty_a deliver_v of_o man_n to_o satan_n without_o due_a consideration_n be_v not_o good_a yet_o overlong_o delay_v of_o due_a proceed_n against_o delinquent_n be_v bad_a also_o for_o the_o holy_a ghost_n tell_v we_o because_o sentence_v against_o a_o evil_a work_n be_v not_o execute_v speedy_o therefore_o the_o heart_n of_o the_o son_n of_o man_n be_v full_o set_v to_o do_v evil_a eccl._n 8._o 11._o for_o which_o cause_n execute_v judgement_n in_o the_o morning_n that_o be_v to_o say_v speedy_o be_v sometime_o express_o require_v jer._n 21._o 12._o which_o be_v speak_v of_o justice_n to_o be_v execute_v by_o civil_a authority_n do_v hold_v by_o proportion_n and_o like_a reason_n in_o ecclesiastical_a censure_n for_o as_o much_o as_o speedinesle_n be_v a_o duty_n and_o delay_n be_v daangerous_a in_o the_o one_o case_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o whereas_o our_o author_n think_v much_o that_o excommunication_n shall_v proceed_v upon_o the_o decision_n of_o three_o elder_n as_o we_o know_v nothing_o but_o a_o congregation_n may_v have_v more_o elder_n than_o the_o three_o if_o god_n provide_v they_o fit_a man_n and_o the_o numerousnesse_n of_o the_o congregation_n so_o require_v in_o which_o case_n our_o author_n say_v nothing_o to_o the_o contrary_a but_o they_o may_v have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v so_o if_o they_o have_v but_o three_o we_o know_v nothing_o in_o this_o but_o they_o may_v have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v notwithstanding_o since_o himself_o teach_v due_a right_n page_n 61._o that_o the_o jew_n have_v their_o congregationall_a church_n as_o we_o have_v and_o have_v their_o meeting_n in_o their_o synagogue_n not_o only_o for_o doctrine_n but_o also_o for_o discipline_n and_o excommunication_n which_o if_o it_o be_v so_o it_o seem_v there_o may_v be_v excommunication_n by_o as_o small_a a_o number_n as_o three_o unless_o it_o can_v appear_v that_o in_o every_o synagogue_n the_o elder_n and_o ruler_n in_o it_o be_v a_o great_a number_n than_o be_v here_o mention_v which_o be_v more_o than_o i_o do_v remember_v to_o be_v express_v in_o scripture_n yea_o and_o further_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o inferior_a judicature_n in_o israel_n have_v power_n of_o life_n and_o death_n page_n 315._o now_o the_o judge_n in_o these_o inferior_a judicature_n though_o they_o must_v never_o be_v under_o that_o number_n of_o three_o yet_o they_o do_v not_o always_o exceed_v the_o same_o for_o aught_o that_o do_v appear_v and_o if_o three_o judge_n have_v power_n of_o life_n and_o death_n why_o may_v not_o a_o congregation_n with_o three_o elder_n have_v power_n of_o excommunication_n moreover_o in_o his_o page_n 454._o he_o give_v we_o these_o word_n for_o a_o proposition_n that_o it_o flow_v connatural_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o church_n to_o exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n to_o which_o those_o word_n do_v also_o agree_v page_n 287._o viz._n the_o power_n and_o right_a to_o discipline_n be_v a_o propriety_n essential_a to_o a_o church_n and_o be_v not_o remove_v from_o it_o till_o god_n remove_v the_o candlestick_n and_o the_o church_n cease_v to_o be_v a_o visible_a church_n and_o in_o page_n 302._o he_o afford_v we_o these_o word_n for_o a_o assumption_n that_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o church_n want_v nothing_o of_o the_o be_v and_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o hence_o the_o conclusion_n be_v obvious_a that_o a_o congregation_n may_v exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o it_o own_o member_n and_o in_o as_o much_o as_o a_o congregation_n in_o which_o be_v but_o three_o elder_n be_v a_o congregation_n it_o follow_v that_o a_o congregation_n in_o which_o be_v but_o three_o elder_n may_v exercise_v such_o jurisdiction_n this_o conclusion_n our_o author_n can_v deny_v in_o as_o much_o as_o it_o necessary_o and_o direct_o follow_v from_o premise_n which_o be_v both_o his_o own_o yea_o in_o his_o page_n 302._o hâ—_n say_v that_o this_o be_v a_o principle_n of_o church_n policy_n that_o every_o politic_a body_n of_o christ_n have_v power_n of_o church_n government_n
itself_o whereas_o there_o be_v no_o consociate_v church_n to_o share_v with_o it_o in_o that_o power_n answ_n this_o i_o grant_v be_v very_o true_a and_o i_o desire_v it_o may_v not_o be_v recall_v but_o may_v still_o stand_v as_o here_o it_o be_v express_o give_v to_o we_o and_o then_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v what_o rule_n of_o christ_n be_v transgress_v if_o a_o other_o congregation_n i_o mean_v a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n do_v exercise_v the_o like_a power_n for_o my_o part_n i_o know_v no_o such_o rule_n nor_o any_o good_a reason_n but_o if_o that_o the_o one_o congregation_n may_v so_o practice_v the_o other_o congregation_n may_v do_v the_o like_a and_o that_o the_o ground_n at_o least_o some_o of_o they_o which_o will_v warrant_v the_o one_o will_v also_o suffice_v to_o warrant_v the_o other_o nevertheless_o when_o any_o rule_n of_o christ_n shall_v be_v produce_v that_o do_v restrain_v a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n of_o this_o entire_a power_n which_o be_v so_o free_o and_o plain_o grant_v to_o the_o congregation_n that_o be_v alone_o i_o shall_v then_o grant_v that_o the_o former_a must_v have_v less_o liberty_n to_o exercise_v this_o power_n then_o be_v here_o grant_v to_o the_o latter_a in_o the_o mean_a time_n that_o which_o here_o be_v yield_v to_o the_o one_o do_v among_o other_o thing_n induce_v i_o to_o think_v that_o the_o same_o aught_o to_o be_v grant_v to_o the_o other_o and_o so_o that_o entireness_n of_o power_n be_v in_o they_o both_o a_o congregation_n viz._n which_o be_v alone_o be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n because_o it_o be_v a_o church_n answ_n how_o will_v it_o then_o be_v avoid_v but_o a_o congregation_n which_o have_v neighbour_n or_o a_o congregation_n which_o be_v alone_o and_o now_o have_v neighbour_n add_v to_o it_o how_o will_v it_o be_v avoid_v i_o say_v but_o such_o a_o congregation_n as_o this_o be_v also_o capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n for_o can_v it_o be_v deny_v but_o such_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o church_n as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o sure_o if_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o doctrine_n elsewhere_o deliver_v do_v stand_v good_a this_o can_v be_v deny_v at_o all_o for_o in_o his_o page_n 301_o he_o say_v that_o be_v a_o church_n and_o have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essential_a note_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n and_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n say_v he_o be_v essential_a note_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n which_o if_o it_o be_v so_o than_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v a_o visible_a church_n and_o have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n because_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v clear_o find_v in_o such_o a_o congregation_n and_o if_o such_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o church_n then_o by_o his_o own_o doctrine_n in_o this_o place_n which_o we_o have_v in_o hand_n such_o a_o congregation_n be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n for_o thus_o i_o argue_v from_o his_o own_o word_n every_o congregation_n which_o be_v a_o church_n be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n but_o a_o congregation_n which_o have_v neighbour_n be_v a_o church_n therefore_o a_o congregation_n which_o have_v neighbour_n be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n the_o conclusion_n be_v that_o which_o we_o stand_v for_o and_o it_o make_v direct_o against_o our_o brother_n and_o yet_o i_o see_v not_o how_o he_o can_v avoid_v it_o because_o both_o the_o premise_n be_v his_o own_o for_o the_o proposition_n be_v plain_a from_o the_o word_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n uâ—z_n a_o congregation_n be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n because_o it_o be_v a_o church_n now_o if_o this_o be_v the_o reason_n why_o it_o be_v capable_a thereof_o then_o look_v to_o what_o congregation_n this_o reason_n do_v agree_v every_o such_o congregation_n must_v be_v so_o capable_a for_o our_o author_n well_o know_v that_o à _fw-la quatenus_fw-la ad_fw-la omne_fw-la consequentia_fw-la and_o for_o the_o assumption_n the_o same_o be_v confirm_v by_o his_o word_n page_n 302_o where_o he_o make_v that_o to_o be_v a_o church_n and_o to_o have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o which_o the_o preach_a of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n do_v agree_v and_o these_o agree_n to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n it_o follow_v that_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v a_o church_n unless_o he_o will_v deny_v to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n power_n of_o preach_v the_o word_n and_o administer_a the_o sacrament_n which_o i_o be_o persuade_v he_o will_v not_o deny_v at_o all_o it_o will_v unavoidable_o follow_v from_o his_o own_o ground_n that_o such_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o visible_a church_n and_o if_o such_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o visible_a church_n then_o by_o his_o own_o ground_n also_o such_o a_o congregation_n must_v be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n which_o conclusion_n if_o it_o be_v grant_v we_o desire_v no_o more_o for_o it_o be_v the_o thing_n that_o we_o hold_v a_o woman_n in_o no_o case_n be_v capable_a of_o administer_a baptism_n or_o the_o lord_n supper_n except_o she_o be_v extraordinary_o and_o immediate_o inspire_v to_o be_v a_o prophetess_n but_o for_o the_o exercise_n of_o entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n by_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o remote_a island_n i_o hope_v it_o have_v no_o such_o need_n of_o immediate_a inspiration_n answ_n nor_o do_v we_o think_v otherwise_o but_o that_o we_o may_v keep_v to_o the_o point_n and_o bring_v up_o the_o dispute_n to_o the_o thing_n in_o questio_fw-la if_o such_o a_o congregation_n have_v no_o such_o inspiration_n may_v notwithstanding_o lawful_o exercise_v entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o themselves_o and_o that_o upon_o this_o reason_n because_o they_o now_o be_v alone_o which_o if_o they_o have_v neighbour_n be_v not_o lawful_a for_o they_o to_o do_v then_o let_v it_o be_v well_o consider_v whether_o by_o the_o like_a reason_n in_o the_o like_o extraordinary_a case_n baptism_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n may_v not_o be_v administer_v the_o one_o of_o they_o by_o a_o woman_n and_o both_o of_o they_o by_o such_o as_o be_v no_o minister_n for_o as_o in_o one_o case_n the_o plea_n to_o make_v it_o lawful_a be_v this_o because_o such_o a_o congregation_n have_v no_o neighbour_n so_o in_o the_o other_o the_o plea_n be_v because_o the_o congregation_n have_v no_o minister_n nor_o perhaps_o there_o be_v no_o man_n at_o hand_n and_o if_o the_o one_o which_o at_o other_o time_n be_v unlawful_a yet_o in_o such_o a_o extraordinary_a exigence_n of_o god_n providence_n may_v be_v lawful_o do_v though_o there_o be_v no_o immediate_a inspiration_n to_o warrant_v the_o same_o why_o do_v there_o need_v such_o immediate_a inspiration_n to_o warrant_v the_o other_o the_o extraordinary_a exigence_n of_o god_n providence_n be_v alike_o in_o both_o i_o desire_v i_o may_v not_o be_v mistake_v in_o this_o passage_n for_o i_o do_v not_o affirm_v nor_o ever_o do_v that_o the_o dispensation_n of_o discipline_n and_o of_o sacrament_n in_o the_o case_n mention_v be_v both_o alike_o unlawful_a or_o else_o both_o alike_o lawful_a the_o answer_n will_v not_o witness_v that_o i_o have_v so_o affirm_v neither_o yet_o this_o present_a discourse_n tâ—_n much_o less_o do_v i_o hold_v that_o sacrament_n may_v be_v dispense_v by_o woman_n or_o by_o man_n that_o be_v not_o minister_n all_o that_o i_o have_v say_v in_o this_o matter_n be_v thus_o much_o that_o it_o be_v good_a to_o take_v heed_n how_o far_o we_o yield_v it_o lawful_a in_o such_o extraordinary_a case_n as_o want_v of_o neighbour_n to_o transgress_v and_o violate_v ordinary_a rule_n lest_o some_o body_n do_v thence_o infer_v that_o sacrament_n may_v be_v dispense_v by_o woman_n or_o man_n that_o be_v no_o minister_n in_o case_n that_o minister_n or_o man_n be_v want_v this_o i_o have_v say_v indeed_o as_o be_v tender_a and_o afraid_a to_o open_v a_o door_n too_o far_o for_o liberty_n of_o transgress_v ordinary_a rule_n and_o conceive_v that_o keep_v close_o to_o those_o rule_n be_v the_o safe_a way_n if_o any_o man_n be_v more_o bold_a and_o dare_v open_a the_o door_n further_o than_o i_o dare_v adventure_n to_o do_v and_o think_v he_o can_v easy_o shut_v the_o same_o again_o to_o stop_v the_o inconvenience_n and_o ill_a consequent_n which_o i_o fear_v may_v thence_o ensue_v i_o shall_v leave_v he_o to_o his_o discretion_n and_o the_o guidance_n of_o god_n therein_o only_o crave_v thus_o much_o for_o myself_o that_o no_o more_o may_v be_v impute_v to_o i_o nor_o report_v of_o i_o in_o this_o or_o other_o matter_n than_o indeed_o i_o have_v affirm_v or_o express_v concern_v his_o second_o reason_n
and_o that_o be_v a_o church_n and_o have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essential_a note_n of_o a_o church_n now_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v essential_a note_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n page_n 302._o second_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o church_n want_v nothing_o of_o the_o be_v and_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n page_n 302._o three_o where_o consociation_n be_v not_o ordination_n and_o excommunication_n may_v be_v do_v by_o one_o single_a congregation_n page_n 338._o four_o that_o in_o such_o case_n viz._n when_o a_o church_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o they_o have_v the_o word_n preach_v and_o entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n whole_a and_o entire_a within_o themselves_o to_o excommunicate_v scandalous_a person_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a page_n 454._o five_o it_o flow_v connatural_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n ibid._n six_o neither_o do_v a_o congregation_n transgress_v any_o rule_n of_o christ_n at_o all_o when_o it_o exercise_v entire_a power_n of_o censure_n within_o itself_o whereas_o there_o be_v no_o consociate_v church_n to_o share_v with_o it_o in_o that_o power_n ibid._n seven_o a_o congregation_n be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n because_o it_o be_v a_o church_n ibid._n such_o say_n as_o these_o himself_o have_v deliver_v in_o the_o page_n and_o place_n here_o cite_v and_o in_o the_o word_n and_o term_n here_o express_v and_o therefore_o from_o these_o he_o can_v clear_v himself_o and_o if_o from_o these_o the_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n may_v just_o be_v deduce_v as_o i_o conceive_v it_o may_v and_o have_v above_o manifest_v it_o will_v then_o but_o little_o avail_v he_o to_o wash_v his_o hand_n from_o the_o stain_n of_o that_o other_o absurd_a say_n afore_o mention_v which_o no_o man_n that_o i_o know_v do_v charge_n he_o withal_o for_o as_o long_o as_o these_o other_o say_n do_v stand_v unrecal_v so_o long_o we_o have_v clear_a ground_n from_o himself_o and_o his_o own_o word_n for_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o every_o congregationall_a church_n and_o so_o for_o the_o weaken_n of_o his_o cause_n and_o for_o the_o strengthen_n of_o our_o own_o a_o power_n to_o govern_v well_o and_o according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n add_v to_o a_o other_o power_n to_o govern_v well_o and_o according_a to_o the_o word_n be_v a_o auxiliary_a power_n and_o no_o way_n destructive_a to_o that_o power_n to_o which_o it_o be_v add_v indeed_o a_o power_n to_o govern_v well_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o maladministration_n in_o a_o congregation_n be_v destructive_a of_o that_o power_n and_o reason_n it_o shall_v be_v so_o because_o christ_n never_o give_v any_o such_o power_n of_o maladministration_n to_o a_o congregation_n answ_n here_o our_o brother_n speak_v of_o two_o case_n first_o of_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o second_o of_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v ill_a but_o beside_o these_o there_o be_v a_o three_o case_n which_o have_v need_v to_o be_v consider_v also_o viz._n a_o power_n of_o govern_v ill_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o which_o may_v be_v the_o case_n when_o the_o power_n of_o classis_fw-la be_v add_v to_o a_o congregation_n for_o it_o be_v not_o impossible_a but_o the_o congregation_n may_v be_v in_o the_o right_n and_o the_o classis_fw-la in_o the_o wrong_n now_o what_o shall_v be_v say_v or_o do_v in_o this_o â—ase_n shall_v the_o congregation_n now_o have_v the_o free_a exercise_n of_o its_o power_n or_o shall_v it_o not_o to_o say_v yea_o will_v satisfy_v the_o mind_n of_o many_o if_o the_o congregation_n themselves_o may_v be_v judge_n that_o they_o be_v in_o the_o right_n or_o if_o it_o be_v determine_v who_o must_v judge_v thereof_o and_o to_o say_v no_o and_o that_o the_o power_n must_v still_o be_v in_o this_o err_a classis_fw-la be_v to_o subject_a righteousness_n to_o wickedness_n and_o truth_n to_o falsehood_n and_o i_o conceive_v our_o brother_n will_v not_o maintain_v such_o power_n in_o a_o compound_n or_o presbytery_n or_o classis_fw-la for_o in_o page_n 335._o speak_v of_o this_o very_a case_n and_o the_o great_a presbytery_n be_v wrong_a in_o their_o voice_n and_o the_o elder_n of_o a_o congregationall_a church_n be_v right_a and_o have_v the_o best_a in_o judge_v of_o a_o case_n before_o they_o he_o plain_o affirm_v that_o the_o power_n which_o in_o this_o case_n the_o presbytery_n exercise_v be_v not_o of_o christ_n and_o that_o the_o jure_v the_o power_n of_o the_o great_a presbytery_n in_o this_o case_n ought_v to_o be_v swallow_v up_o of_o the_o voice_n of_o the_o elder_n of_o a_o congregation_n though_o they_o be_v few_o in_o number_n now_o if_o this_o be_v so_o than_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n be_v still_o as_o uncertain_a as_o before_o and_o still_o we_o be_v to_o seek_v where_o the_o power_n of_o censure_n or_o jurisdiction_n do_v final_o reside_v for_o in_o the_o one_o place_n our_o brother_n tell_v we_o christ_n never_o give_v power_n of_o maladministration_n to_o a_o congregation_n and_o in_o the_o other_o he_o tell_v we_o the_o like_a of_o a_o classis_fw-la or_o great_a presbytery_n and_o that_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o power_n to_o any_o church_n to_o err_v by_o which_o say_n we_o be_v leave_v at_o great_a uncertainty_n for_o still_o the_o question_n will_v be_v whether_o the_o congregation_n do_v err_v or_o no_o and_o so_o whether_o the_o classis_fw-la do_v err_v or_o no_o and_o unless_o it_o be_v determine_v who_o must_v judge_v of_o this_o we_o be_v still_o but_o where_o we_o be_v and_o no_o near_o a_o issue_n then_o before_o this_o indeed_o be_v most_o true_a and_o must_v be_v so_o acknowledge_v that_o though_o the_o lord_n almighty_n have_v give_v a_o power_n unto_o society_n whether_o they_o be_v family_n commonwealth_n or_o church_n and_o have_v make_v sundry_a of_o they_o subordinate_a to_o none_o other_o the_o like_a society_n in_o the_o exercise_n of_o their_o power_n but_o to_o have_v supremacy_n of_o power_n within_o themselves_o yet_o he_o have_v also_o give_v they_o just_a and_o holy_a rule_n in_o his_o word_n for_o the_o direct_n of_o they_o in_o the_o use_n of_o this_o power_n from_o which_o rule_v it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o they_o to_o swerve_v or_o go_v astray_o but_o if_o they_o do_v it_o will_v be_v sin_n unto_o they_o and_o he_o will_v sure_o require_v it_o of_o they_o but_o now_o between_o these_o two_o the_o power_n itself_o and_o the_o abuse_n or_o right_a use_n of_o the_o power_n we_o must_v careful_o distinguish_v for_o though_o abuse_n of_o their_o power_n be_v not_o give_v of_o god_n from_o who_o come_v nothing_o but_o good_a yet_o the_o power_n itself_o be_v good_a be_v give_v of_o he_o and_o be_v so_o to_o be_v acknowledge_v and_o though_o abuse_v of_o their_o power_n do_v just_o deserve_v at_o his_o hand_n that_o they_o shall_v be_v deprive_v of_o the_o power_n itself_o yeâ—_n god_n do_v not_o always_o forthwith_o deal_v with_o man_n according_a to_o their_o desert_n herein_o but_o many_o time_n continue_v still_o to_o they_o their_o power_n though_o they_o have_v abuse_v the_o same_o much_o less_o do_v he_o allow_v other_o to_o deprive_v they_o of_o this_o power_n because_o of_o every_o abuse_n thereon_o witness_n among_o other_o the_o example_n of_o the_o pagan_a prince_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n who_o through_o their_o ignorance_n infidelity_n pride_n and_o other_o sin_n can_v not_o but_o in_o great_a measure_n abuse_v their_o authority_n and_o yet_o the_o holy_a ghost_n command_v the_o christian_n to_o be_v subject_a and_o obedient_a thereunto_o rom._n 13._o 1_o 2._o etc._n etc._n it_o be_v 3._o 1._o not_o to_o obey_v they_o indeed_o in_o do_v evil_a at_o their_o command_n for_o in_o such_o case_n they_o must_v obey_v god_n rather_o than_o man_n as_o act_n 5._o 29._o yet_o still_o they_o must_v be_v subject_a to_o the_o power_n either_o active_o or_o passive_o even_o then_o when_o the_o power_n be_v sinful_o abuse_v even_o so_o if_o a_o family_n shall_v abuse_v their_o power_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o other_o family_n may_v lawful_o for_o this_o cause_n take_v away_o their_o power_n from_o they_o or_o if_o a_o corporation_n shall_v so_o offend_v it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o other_o corporation_n may_v deprive_v they_o of_o their_o power_n and_o if_o it_o be_v so_o in_o commonwealth_n and_o family_n why_o may_v we_o not_o say_v the_o same_o of_o church_n or_o how_o will_v it_o follow_v if_o a_o church_n shall_v abuse_v their_o power_n
society_n to_o end_n in_o monarchy_n whether_o will_v it_o not_o follow_v that_o the_o government_n of_o church_n must_v so_o end_v as_o well_o as_o that_o congregation_n must_v depend_v on_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n in_o government_n to_o other_o society_n and_o whether_o the_o multitude_n of_o grecian_n and_o hebrew_n who_o châ—se_v the_o seven_o deacon_n acts._n 6._o be_v two_o congregation_n or_o one_o only_a page_n 159._o chap._n 21._o whether_o congregation_n may_v be_v excommunicate_v by_o class_n and_o synod_n by_o virtue_n of_o those_o word_n mat._n 18._o tell_v the_o church_n as_o contain_v a_o rule_n and_o remedy_n for_o all_o offence_n or_o at_o the_o least_o a_o church_n remedy_n for_o the_o offence_n of_o church_n and_o church_n member_n and_o if_o yea_o whether_o it_o will_v not_o thereupon_o follow_v that_o a_o national_n church_n must_v have_v the_o benefit_n of_o this_o remedy_n as_o well_o as_o other_o and_o so_o have_v no_o independency_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o itself_o but_o be_v subject_n to_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o general_n counsel_n which_o yet_o mr._n rutherford_n do_v deny_v page_n 164._o chap._n 22._o when_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o profess_a enemy_n to_o religion_n whether_o then_o it_o be_v likely_a and_o usual_a that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o people_n be_v sincere_o religious_a and_o whether_o when_o the_o great_a part_n be_v enemy_n with_o their_o magistrate_n it_o be_v then_o the_o duty_n of_o a_o few_o that_o be_v sincere_a to_o assemble_v in_o a_o national_n synod_n and_o there_o to_o enter_v into_o a_o national_n covenant_n and_o also_o to_o enjoin_v the_o same_o unto_o that_o great_a part_n page_n 170._o chap._n 23._o whether_o the_o word_n church_n be_v not_o give_v to_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o whether_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o company_n or_o church-meeting_n only_o for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n and_o not_o for_o any_o other_o spiritual_a duty_n and_o whether_o the_o divers_a duty_n 1._o of_o word_n and_o sacrament_n 2._o of_o discipline_n etc._n etc._n must_v needs_o argue_v divers_a church_n page_n 175._o chap._n 24_o whether_o those_o child_n of_o israel_n numb_a 8._o 10._o who_o lay_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n be_v elder_n by_o office_n and_o as_o so_o consider_v do_v lay_v on_o their_o hand_n and_o whether_o this_o scripture_n do_v not_o prove_v that_o where_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n to_o be_v have_v there_o some_o principal_a member_n though_o no_o elder_n by_o office_n may_v impose_v hand_n on_o church-officer_n page_n 180_o chap._n 25._o whether_o a_o minister_n call_v consist_v in_o election_n or_o imposition_n of_o hand_n and_o whether_o of_o these_o be_v great_a and_o whether_o be_v prior_n or_o posterior_n whether_o 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o acts._n 6_o 2_o 3_o 4._o acts._n 13._o 1_o 2_o 3._o do_v prove_v that_o the_o minister_n call_v consist_v in_o imposition_n of_o hand_n by_o the_o presbeterie_n and_o that_o such_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v not_o a_o consummatory_n rite_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n also_o whether_o rom._n 10._o 15._o do_v prove_v that_o a_o man_n can_v be_v a_o minister_n except_o some_o presbytery_n ordain_v he_o before_o the_o people_n choose_v he_o and_o whether_o otherwise_o the_o people_n do_v send_v a_o minister_n to_o themselves_o and_o whether_o the_o people_n of_o god_n may_v not_o as_o well_o discern_v a_o man_n fitness_n to_o be_v ordain_v as_o his_o fitness_n to_o be_v elect_v page_n 196._o chap._n 26._o whether_o the_o epistle_n to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n wherein_o there_o be_v contain_v rule_n of_o direction_n in_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n do_v prove_v that_o this_o action_n may_v not_o in_o any_o case_n be_v perform_v by_o non-officer_n but_o must_v be_v perform_v only_o by_o presbytery_n and_o whether_o the_o argument_n do_v not_o make_v as_o strong_o for_o the_o appropriate_a of_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n to_o the_o prelate_n as_o to_o the_o presbytery_n and_o do_v not_o as_o well_o exclude_v the_o presbytery_n from_o meddle_v therein_o as_o exclude_v the_o people_n page_n 206._o to_o the_o christian_a reader_n in_o the_o year_n 1643._o there_o come_v forth_o a_o treatise_n against_o independency_n under_o the_o name_n of_o my_o reverend_n and_o learned_a brother_n mr._n charles_n herle_n the_o pastor_n of_o winwick_n in_o lancashire_n this_o treatise_n because_o it_o seem_v to_o be_v write_v with_o such_o a_o candid_a and_o peaceable_a spirit_n as_o may_v witness_v for_o its_o author_n that_o the_o thing_n he_o aim_v at_o therein_o be_v mere_o the_o disquisition_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o because_o the_o author_n thereof_o be_v many_o year_n ago_o of_o my_o reverend_a brother_n mr._n tompsons_n acquaintance_n and_o i_o therefore_o we_o think_v it_o may_v not_o be_v in_o vain_a if_o we_o shall_v love_o communicate_v to_o the_o learned_a author_n such_o apprehension_n of_o we_o whereby_o we_o be_v detain_v from_o concur_v with_o his_o judgement_n in_o the_o principal_a question_n dispute_v in_o the_o say_a treatise_n and_o therefore_o in_o the_o latter_a end_n of_o the_o same_o year_n there_o come_v forth_o a_o small_a script_n under_o our_o name_n in_o way_n of_o a_o brotherly_a answer_n to_o that_o his_o love_a and_o learned_a treatise_n against_o this_o answer_n mr._n samuel_n rutherford_n a_o learned_a writer_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n have_v allege_v and_o publish_v many_o objection_n exception_n and_o answer_n in_o his_o book_n entitle_v the_o due_a right_n of_o presbytery_n i_o may_v call_v they_o many_o because_o in_o that_o treatise_n of_o his_o there_o be_v no_o less_o than_o 24_o or_o 25_o several_a place_n wherein_o he_o bring_v up_o by_o name_n the_o say_a answer_n dispute_v against_o sundry_a passage_n therein_o as_o if_o they_o be_v not_o sound_a which_o passage_n if_o they_o be_v indeed_o erroneous_a and_o unsound_a be_v a_o great_a many_o to_o be_v contain_v and_o find_v in_o so_o small_a a_o work_n the_o whole_a book_n as_o it_o be_v now_o print_v contain_v in_o it_o 30._o leaf_n so_o that_o the_o leaf_n in_o the_o book_n be_v not_o much_o more_o than_o the_o place_n therein_o which_o this_o learned_a writer_n do_v object_n against_o which_o be_v consider_v i_o think_v it_o therefore_o needful_a to_o peruse_v and_o weigh_v as_o the_o lord_n shall_v help_v the_o several_a place_n of_o his_o forementioned_a treatise_n wherein_o he_o deal_v against_o the_o say_a answer_n and_o have_v so_o do_v i_o here_o present_a my_o apprehension_n to_o public_a view_n leave_v the_o prudent_a and_o judicious_a reader_n to_o consider_v and_o judge_v whether_o this_o reverend_a and_o learned_a brother_n have_v sufficient_o overthrow_v or_o weak'n_v the_o say_a answer_n or_o whether_o the_o same_o do_v not_o still_o remain_v agreeable_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o truth_n notwithstanding_o his_o objection_n against_o the_o same_o or_o such_o answer_n as_o he_o do_v return_v to_o several_a passage_n therein_o chap._n i._n of_o appeal_v from_o particular_a congregation_n and_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v and_o whether_o by_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n there_o may_v not_o be_v appeal_v to_o general_a council_n who_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n he_o do_v yet_o deny_v first_o of_o all_o in_o his_o page_n 315._o for_o that_o be_v the_o first_o place_n wherein_o i_o find_v he_o meddle_v with_o the_o answer_n speak_v of_o doubt_n concern_v math._n 18._o 17._o tell_v the_o church_n in_o a_o 9_o the_o objection_n about_o that_o scripture_n beside_o other_o particular_n he_o have_v these_o word_n viz._n there_o be_v no_o reason_n to_o appeal_v to_o a_o high_a judicature_n because_o the_o inferior_a may_v err_v because_o all_o above_o a_o congregation_n be_v court_n which_o may_v err_v presbytery_n provincial_n national_n the_o universal_a council_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n may_v err_v and_o then_o for_o author_n of_o this_o part_n of_o the_o objection_n he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o answer_v to_o mr._n herle_v cap._n 2._o pag._n 13_o 14._o answ_n when_o he_o be_v discourse_v of_o doubt_n concern_v that_o scripture_n math_n 18._o tell_v the_o church_n i_o know_v no_o reason_n why_o he_o shall_v bring_v those_o word_n of_o i_o at_o such_o a_o time_n or_o for_o such_o a_o purpose_n for_o though_o i_o do_v acknowledge_v that_o i_o write_v the_o word_n which_o he_o have_v set_v down_o or_o such_o like_a in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v yet_o that_o they_o be_v bring_v by_o i_o for_o such_o purpose_n as_o he_o do_v report_n viz._n for_o the_o clear_n of_o doubt_n concern_v the_o meaning_n of_o math._n 18_o 17._o that_o i_o do_v utter_o deny_v he_o that_o shall_v look_v upon_o the_o chapter_n and_o page_n allege_v will_v find_v that_o i_o do_v not_o there_o meddle_v at_o all_o
proper_o find_v in_o such_o assembly_n i_o meâ—ne_v in_o general_a council_n unto_o who_o as_o have_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n there_o must_v be_v no_o appeal_n at_o all_o to_o conclude_v this_o chapter_n when_o we_o do_v inquire_v about_o power_n of_o appeal_n and_o unto_o what_o court_v appeal_n must_v be_v bring_v our_o way_n be_v not_o to_o seek_v for_o such_o â—_z as_o can_v err_v for_o such_o we_o shall_v never_o find_v nor_o for_o such_o as_o we_o think_v will_n more_o seldom_o err_v as_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v have_v it_o for_o that_o rule_n be_v also_o subject_a to_o much_o uncertainty_n and_o exception_n as_o have_v be_v already_o declare_v but_o the_o best_a way_n be_v to_o inquire_v where_o the_o lord_n jesus_n have_v place_v the_o power_n of_o the_o last_o and_o final_a censure_v and_o determine_v of_o cause_n and_o when_o that_o be_v find_v therewith_o to_o rest_v content_v and_o as_o for_o synod_n and_o council_n it_o be_v neither_o their_z not_o err_v nor_o their_o seldom_o err_a that_o can_v be_v a_o sufficient_a argument_n to_o place_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o unless_o the_o lord_n jesus_n have_v so_o appoint_v and_o ordain_v which_o yet_o do_v not_o appear_v and_o so_o much_o for_o this_o first_o place_n wherein_o our_o brother_n deal_v against_o the_o answer_n chap._n ii_o of_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n to_o give_v advice_n and_o counsel_n and_o whether_o from_o thence_o it_o do_v follow_v that_o they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v the_o next_o place_n wherein_o i_o find_v this_o learned_a author_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o his_o page_n 381._o where_o have_v in_o the_o close_a of_o a_o 4_o the_o objection_n in_o the_o precedent_a page_n bring_v in_o these_o word_n viz._n a_o synod_n in_o dogmatic_a power_n arise_v no_o high_a than_o this_o viz._n a_o man_n or_o a_o single_a congregation_n as_o that_o a_o divine_a institution_n do_v fall_v upon_o it_o among_o other_o thing_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o objection_n he_o say_v thus_o viz._n i_o will_v know_v if_o a_o synod_n dogmatic_a power_n be_v above_o the_o power_n of_o single_a congregation_n i_o think_v say_v he_o it_o be_v not_o by_o our_o brethren_n tenant_n for_o they_o say_v express_o that_o every_o particular_a church_n have_v right_a jus_o to_o decide_v dogmatic_a point_n this_o right_a the_o church_n of_o antioch_n have_v act._n 15_o anâ—_n labour_v to_o end_v that_o controversy_n within_o herself_o which_o show_v that_o they_o have_v right_o anâ—_n power_n but_o they_o have_v not_o ability_n and_o therefore_o in_o that_o case_n they_o seek_v for_o counsel_n light_n and_o advise_v from_o other_o church_n and_o then_o among_o other_o place_n for_o proof_n that_o this_o be_v our_o tenent_n he_o allege_v in_o his_o margin_n my_o name_n and_o mr._n tompsonâ—_n in_o the_o answer_n to_o mr._n herle_v chap._n 2._o and_o after_o the_o word_n above_o rehearse_v and_o some_o other_o to_o the_o like_a purpose_n he_o infer_v thus_o hence_o say_v he_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v answ_n to_o omit_v at_o least_o for_o this_o time_n the_o other_o place_n allege_v in_o his_o margin_n and_o not_o to_o examine_v how_o far_o his_o answer_n reach_v to_o satisfy_v the_o objection_n as_o himself_o have_v propound_v it_o i_o will_v only_o consider_v of_o such_o thing_n as_o do_v direct_o concern_v the_o answer_n for_o that_o be_v the_o scope_n â—ayme_v at_o and_o i_o endeavour_v to_o keep_v close_o thereto_o first_o therefore_o i_o have_v this_o to_o say_v that_o for_o the_o dogmatic_a power_n of_o synod_n above_o congregation_n for_o the_o right_n and_o power_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n in_o particular_a and_o for_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n to_o be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v there_o be_v not_o in_o the_o chapter_n allege_v so_o much_o as_o one_o word_n about_o any_o one_o of_o those_o 〈◊〉_d either_o one_o way_n or_o another_o so_o that_o i_o can_v but_o marvel_v why_o this_o reverend_a brother_n shall_v allege_v that_o chapter_n for_o such_o a_o purpose_n 2._o although_o in_o another_o place_n of_o the_o answer_n viz._n page_n 4â—_n there_o be_v word_n to_o the_o like_a purpose_n with_o those_o which_o our_o author_n here_o set_v down_o concern_v antioch_n yet_o for_o the_o conclusion_n and_o consequence_n which_o he_o will_v thence_o infer_v viz._n that_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n as_o there_o be_v nothing_o say_v â—_o the_o chapter_n by_o he_o allege_v that_o look_v that_o way_n so_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o page_n or_o chapter_n where_o aâ—tioch_n be_v speak_v of_o nor_o any_o where_o else_o in_o all_o thâ—_n book_n 〈◊〉_d as_o i_o do_v remember_v that_o can_v any_o way_n serve_v for_o the_o prove_v of_o such_o a_o conclusion_n and_o tenant_n to_o be_v we_o the_o author_n allege_v no_o place_n that_o have_v such_o a_o conclusion_n in_o it_o either_o in_o direct_a word_n or_o by_o just_a consequence_n and_o i_o profess_v that_o for_o my_o part_n i_o do_v not_o know_v of_o any_o such_o 3._o but_o this_o i_o do_v know_v that_o the_o direct_a contrary_n to_o what_o here_o be_v express_v be_v plain_o to_o be_v find_v in_o another_o place_n of_o the_o say_a answer_n viz._n pag._n 7._o where_o there_o be_v these_o word_n viz._n if_o a_o synod_n may_v bâ—_n call_v a_o church_n and_o if_o power_n by_o disputation_n and_o disquisition_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o then_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o may_v be_v call_v government_n than_o they_o viz._n the_o independent_n as_o they_o be_v call_v do_v admit_v a_o synod_n to_o be_v a_o govern_n church_n for_o the_o power_n here_o mention_v they_o do_v allow_v unto_o synod_n now_o the_o power_n here_o mention_v be_v as_o we_o see_v not_o only_o a_o power_n by_o disputation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n but_o also_o a_o power_n to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o they_o allow_v this_o power_n unto_o synod_n as_o they_o do_v exprest_o say_v that_o they_o do_v i_o know_v not_o why_o our_o brother_n shall_v say_v that_o they_o allow_v unto_o synod_n only_o a_o power_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n for_o power_n to_o command_v obedience_n and_o power_n only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n i_o suppose_v be_v not_o the_o same_o and_o if_o they_o be_v not_o i_o know_v not_o how_o this_o report_n in_o this_o particular_a can_v be_v make_v good_a to_o i_o it_o seem_v apparent_a and_o undeniable_a that_o they_o who_o have_v power_n to_o command_v obedience_n have_v more_o then_o only_o a_o power_n to_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o they_o who_o have_v only_o this_o latter_a have_v no_o power_n of_o the_o â—ormeâ—_n at_o all_o even_o interiour_o as_o naaman_n servant_n 2_o king_n 5._o have_v power_n to_o counsel_n and_o advise_v their_o master_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v their_o master_n to_o yield_v obedience_n 4_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a which_o i_o deny_v not_o that_o the_o answer_n in_o another_o place_n â—hough_o not_o in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v do_v say_v that_o aâ—tioch_n have_v right_a to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n have_v serve_v thereto_o and_o that_o by_o reason_n of_o distension_n and_o through_o want_n of_o light_n they_o be_v force_v to_o send_v out_o to_o â—â—rusalem_fw-la for_o help_n must_v it_o needs_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o his_o assembly_n at_o jerusalem_n have_v no_o more_o power_n but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v which_o be_v the_o conclusion_n which_o he_o endeavour_v to_o draw_v â—â—om_n that_o which_o be_v say_v concern_v antioch_n i_o â—â—â—ceive_v there_o be_v no_o necessity_n at_o all_o of_o such_o a_o consequence_n for_o whence_o must_v the_o same_o 〈◊〉_d i_o suppose_v from_o one_o of_o these_o two_o either_o from_o this_o that_o antioch_n be_v suppose_v and_o say_v to_o have_v have_v right_o within_o herself_o or_o else_o from_o this_o that_o jerusalem_n give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v any_o other_o colour_n for_o conclude_v such_o a_o conseptionce_n as_o be_v in_o question_n the_o answer_n afford_v none_o that_o i_o know_v of_o 〈◊〉_d for_o these_o two_o particular_n here_o mention_v they_o be_v both_o insufficient_a for_o such_o 〈◊〉_d purpose_n for_o what_o shall_v hinder_v but_o there_o be_v more_o power_n in_o the_o synod_n of_o â—erusalem_fw-la towards_o they_o of_o antioch_n then_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v even_o power_n to_o command_v they_o to_o do_v what_o be_v their_o duty_n though_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o end_v the_o matter_n themselves_o if_o ability_n serve_v thereto_o do_v right_a in_o one_o person_n or_o assembly_n
mr._n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o and_o chap._n 1._o page_n 9_o of_o the_o answer_n he_o say_v we_o there_o teach_v that_o there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o clear_n truth_n dogmatical_o &_o that_o ultimate_o where_o the_o controversy_n be_v end_v but_o he_o say_v we_o will_v have_v this_o vltimate_a power_n not_o in_o a_o synod_n only_o but_o also_o in_o a_o congregation_n and_o then_o no_o answer_v three_o thing_n which_o there_o ensue_v answ_n our_o word_n be_v these_o by_o power_n of_o decree_n we_o understand_v power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n dogmatical_o for_o the_o word_n translate_v decree_n be_v dogmata_fw-la in_o the_o original_a act._n 16._o 4._o and_o this_o power_n we_o confess_v be_v in_o a_o synod_n though_o not_o all_o in_o a_o synod_n alone_o but_o also_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n now_o these_o bring_v our_o word_n if_o therefore_o this_o reverend_a brother_n will_v overthrow_v our_o tenent_n in_o this_o particular_a he_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o there_o be_v not_o any_o power_n as_o all_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n dogmatical_o this_o indeed_o have_v be_v direct_o contrary_a to_o what_o we_o teach_v but_o this_o be_v neither_o prove_v nor_o once_o attempt_v to_o prove_v and_o therefore_o our_o tenent_n herein_o do_v yet_o stand_v good_a for_o any_o thing_n he_o have_v say_v to_o the_o contrary_n and_o no_o marvel_n siâ—h_v the_o express_a word_n of_o the_o text_n do_v witness_v that_o every_o bishop_n have_v power_n and_o be_v boand_v by_o his_o office_n and_o duty_n by_o sound_a doctrine_n both_o to_o exhort_v and_o convince_v gainsayet_n tit._n 1._o 9_o and_o according_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n do_v labour_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o controversy_n about_o circumcision_n and_o have_v much_o disputation_n about_o it_o among_o themselves_o afore_o there_o be_v any_o speech_n of_o send_v to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v act._n 15._o 2._o which_o show_v that_o they_o have_v power_n or_o right_a to_o have_v clear_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n have_v serve_v or_o else_o this_o endeavour_n have_v be_v sinful_a as_o be_v a_o attempt_v to_o do_v that_o whereto_o they_o have_v no_o right_n so_o that_o for_o aught_o we_o yet_o so_o the_o power_n that_o we_o speak_v of_o and_o which_o we_o hold_v to_o be_v in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o congregation_n be_v there_o indeed_o by_o the_o appointment_n of_o the_o lord_n but_o let_v we_o hear_v master_n rutherford_n answer_v first_o say_v he_o they_o seem_v to_o make_v this_o dogmatic_a power_n a_o church_n power_n and_o the_o exercise_n thereof_o formal_o a_o act_n of_o church_n government_n and_o so_o it_o must_v be_v church_n power_n and_o church_n government_n in_o the_o synod_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o congregation_n answ_n whence_o do_v it_o seem_v that_o we_o do_v so_o make_v it_o be_v there_o any_o such_o word_n as_o here_o he_o set_v down_o or_o any_o word_n equivalent_a thereto_o or_o do_v the_o place_n make_v any_o mention_n of_o church-power_n and_o church_n government_n at_o all_o or_o be_v there_o so_o much_o as_o one_o word_n that_o look_v that_o way_n if_o there_o be_v let_v our_o brother_n say_v that_o we_o seem_v to_o â—each_v as_o he_o do_v report_n but_o if_o there_o be_v not_o we_o be_v sorry_a he_o shall_v report_v we_o to_o teach_v oâ—_n seem_v to_o teach_v that_o which_o to_o our_o remembrance_n we_o never_o say_v nor_o think_v and_o sure_o it_o be_v we_o have_v express_o say_v the_o direct_a contrary_n in_o page_n 7_o the_o page_n next_o save_v one_o afore_o this_o which_o here_o he_o be_v deal_v against_o where_o we_o have_v these_o word_n it_o seem_v to_o we_o say_v we_o that_o this_o power_n viz._n by_o disquisition_n and_o disputation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o then_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o be_v not_o proper_o a_o power_n and_o exercise_v of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n but_o a_o power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o so_o a_o synod_n be_v rather_o a_o teach_n then_o a_o govern_v church_n these_o be_v our_o word_n in_o the_o page_n afore_o allege_a wherein_o we_o plain_o express_v what_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n seem_v unto_o we_o to_o be_v even_o the_o direct_a contrary_a to_o that_o which_o he_o say_v we_o seem_v to_o make_v it_o we_o on_o the_o one_o side_n affirm_v and_o express_v that_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n be_v no_o power_n of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n but_o a_o power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o he_o on_o the_o other_o side_n report_v that_o we_o seem_v to_o make_v the_o exercise_n of_o dogmatic_a power_n to_o be_v formal_o a_o act_n of_o church-government_n and_o so_o to_o place_v church-government_n in_o the_o synod_n in_o which_o report_n we_o must_v needs_o say_v we_o be_v plain_o misreported_n his_o second_o answer_n be_v this_o the_o last_o period_n and_o conclusion_n of_o the_o controversy_n can_v be_v both_o in_o the_o congregation_n by_o right_a only_o and_o in_o the_o synod_n by_o right_a only_o for_o two_o last_o power_n can_v be_v proper_o in_o two_o subordinate_a judicature_n answ_n this_o be_v very_o true_a but_o it_o touch_v not_o we_o at_o all_o for_o we_o never_o say_v the_o last_o period_n of_o the_o controversy_n be_v both_o in_o the_o congregation_n only_o and_o in_o the_o synod_n only_o if_o we_o have_v so_o say_v let_v the_o place_n be_v produce_v where_o we_o have_v say_v it_o for_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v do_v afford_v we_o no_o such_o thing_n nor_o any_o place_n else_o that_o we_o know_v of_o all_o that_o the_o place_n afford_v concern_v this_o point_n be_v only_o this_o that_o there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o clear_n the_o truth_n dogmatical_o in_o a_o synod_n though_o not_o in_o a_o synod_n only_o but_o also_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o this_o doctrine_n i_o hope_v our_o brother_n will_v not_o deny_v but_o whether_o this_o power_n be_v last_o in_o the_o synod_n or_o in_o the_o congregationall_a presbytery_n of_o this_o we_o do_v not_o speak_v at_o all_o much_o less_o do_v we_o say_v as_o he_o do_v apprehend_v and_o report_v that_o this_o power_n be_v both_o last_o in_o the_o synod_n and_o last_o in_o the_o congregation_n too_o wherefore_o our_o defence_n in_o this_o particular_a must_v needs_o be_v this_o that_o what_o here_o he_o confute_v to_o be_v out_v be_v such_o a_o thing_n as_o never_o fall_v from_o our_o mouth_n or_o pen_n nor_o for_o aught_o we_o know_v do_v never_o enter_v into_o our_o thought_n three_o he_o say_v if_o a_o controversy_n concern_v many_o congregation_n as_o this_o do_v act._n 15._o i_o see_v not_o how_o a_o congregation_n except_o they_o transgress_v their_o line_n can_v final_o determine_v it_o answ_n neither_o do_v this_o touch_v we_o except_o we_o have_v say_v that_o a_o congregation_n may_v final_o determine_v controversy_n which_o concern_v many_o church_n which_o yet_o we_o have_v not_o say_v as_o for_o that_o controversy_n act._n 15._o it_o be_v plain_a from_o verse_n 2_o that_o antioch_n do_v endeavour_v to_o have_v end_v it_o among_o themselves_o so_o far_o as_o they_o be_v trouble_v therewith_o for_o some_o teach_n that_o corrupt_a doctrine_n among_o they_o they_o have_v much_o disputation_n about_o the_o point_n afore_o they_o determine_v to_o send_v out_o for_o help_v elsewhere_o now_o to_o what_o end_n be_v thus_o much_o disputation_n if_o they_o have_v no_o right_a to_o determine_v the_o matter_n may_v they_o not_o better_o have_v spare_v their_o pain_n or_o do_v they_o not_o transgress_v their_o line_n in_o attempt_v what_o they_o do_v attempt_v sure_o it_o seem_v they_o do_v if_o they_o have_v not_o right_a to_o determine_v the_o matter_n but_o for_o our_o part_n since_o we_o do_v not_o find_v they_o in_o the_o least_o reprove_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n for_o this_o attempt_n therefore_o we_o can_v but_o think_v they_o do_v well_o therein_o and_o thereupon_o it_o follow_v that_o if_o antioch_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n as_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o it_o be_v from_o act._n 14._o 27._o either_o this_o controversy_n do_v trouble_v no_o church_n but_o antioch_n only_o or_o else_o when_o a_o controversy_n or_o corrupt_a opinion_n do_v trouble_v many_o church_n one_o of_o they_o may_v lawful_o determine_v and_o end_v it_o so_o far_o at_o it_o concern_v themselves_o chap._n v._n again_o of_o that_o assembly_n act._n 15._o whether_o their_o rebuke_v the_o false_a teacher_n do_v prove_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o excommunication_n in_o synod_n and_o whether_o preach_v do_v prove_v the_o assembly_n where_o it_o be_v to_o be_v a_o church_n the_o new_a place_n where_o i_o find_v he_o except_v
excommunication_n in_o the_o case_n propose_v and_o therefore_o i_o see_v not_o how_o it_o can_v be_v sufficient_a to_o prove_v such_o a_o power_n in_o a_o synod_n for_o which_o purpose_n master_n rutherford_n bring_v it_o of_o necessity_n for_o aught_o that_o i_o see_v one_o of_o these_o must_v be_v say_v either_o that_o this_o assembly_n have_v no_o power_n to_o rebuke_v the_o man_n but_o must_v suffer_v his_o sin_n to_o be_v upon_o he_o though_o god_n be_v dishonour_v and_o other_o endanger_v thereby_o or_o else_o it_o must_v be_v say_v they_o have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v he_o as_o well_o as_o to_o rebuke_v he_o neither_o of_o which_o i_o conceive_v can_v safe_o be_v say_v or_o if_o neither_o of_o these_o can_v be_v say_v it_o must_v then_o follow_v that_o their_o may_v be_v power_n to_o rebuke_v even_o in_o a_o assembly_n of_o many_o person_n a_o political_a society_n and_o yet_o the_o same_o assembly_n have_v no_o power_n at_o all_o to_o excommunicate_v the_o person_n so_o rebuke_v and_o so_o this_o learned_a brother_n argue_v be_v answer_v likewise_o i_o suppose_v it_o will_v not_o be_v deny_v but_o one_o congregation_n if_o need_v so_o require_v may_v rebuke_v and_o reprove_v another_o congregation_n though_o neither_o of_o they_o be_v superior_a to_o other_o but_o both_o of_o they_o equal_a and_o independent_a of_o each_o other_o in_o regard_n of_o subjection_n mr._n rutherf_n confess_v p._n 294._o that_o congregation_n and_o church_n may_v admonish_v and_o rebuke_v each_o other_o and_o sure_o it_o be_v that_o scripture_n cant._n 8._o 8._o we_o have_v a_o little_a sister_n what_o shall_v we_o do_v for_o she_o do_v show_v that_o church_n ought_v to_o take_v care_n one_o for_o the_o good_a of_o another_o and_o if_o they_o must_v take_v care_n and_o consult_v for_o one_o another_o there_o be_v the_o like_a reason_n that_o they_o shall_v reprove_v and_o admonish_v one_o another_o as_o need_n shall_v require_v now_o when_o one_o church_n do_v so_o practice_v towards_o another_o it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o here_o be_v the_o same_o thing_n which_o mr._n rutherford_n speak_v of_o first_o a_o rebuke_v second_o a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o three_o a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o a_o political_a society_n and_o body_n but_o can_v any_o man_n infer_v from_o hence_o that_o the_o church_n thus_o rebuke_v another_o church_n have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v that_o other_o church_n i_o suppose_v none_o will_v affirm_v it_o and_o if_o this_o may_v not_o be_v affirm_v i_o do_v not_o see_v how_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o even_o by_o a_o whole_a synod_n can_v be_v any_o sufficient_a ground_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o synod_n have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n say_v our_o author_n be_v not_o consider_v here_o as_o mere_o preacher_n and_o teacher_n in_o the_o act_n of_o teach_v for_o why_o then_o shall_v they_o not_o be_v formal_o a_o church_n assembly_n if_o they_o be_v a_o assembly_n meet_v for_o preach_v the_o word_n pag._n 411._o 412._o answ_n when_o the_o text_n act_v 15_o do_v mention_n sometime_o the_o multitude_n verse_n 12._o sometime_o the_o brethren_n verse_n 23._o sometime_o the_o whole_a church_n verse_n 22._o beside_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n we_o know_v no_o absurdity_n in_o it_o if_o one_o shall_v say_v here_o be_v formal_o a_o church_n and_o a_o church_n assembly_n in_o which_o church-assemble_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n be_v teacher_n and_o preacher_n though_o they_o alone_o be_v not_o the_o church_n yet_o though_o we_o think_v here_o be_v a_o church_n and_o a_o church-assemble_o we_o do_v not_o think_v mr._n rutherford_n reason_n do_v prove_v they_o so_o to_o be_v for_o paul_n and_o sâ—las_n be_v preacher_n of_o the_o word_n in_o the_o prison_n at_o philippi_n act_n 16._o and_o at_o marâ—hill_n and_o the_o marketplace_n at_o athens_n act._n 17._o and_o yet_o we_o think_v it_o hard_o to_o infer_v thence_o that_o these_o assembly_n be_v formal_o church_n yea_o but_o say_v our_o author_n the_o exercise_n of_o the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n in_o the_o hear_n of_o a_o multitude_n be_v essential_o a_o act_n of_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n page_n 412._o answ_n this_o be_v very_o true_a indeed_o a_o act_n of_o preach_v the_o word_n it_o must_v needs_o be_v the_o word_n preach_v be_v take_v in_o its_o utmost_a latitude_n but_o be_v not_o avoidable_a and_o always_o a_o church-act_n or_o a_o act_n that_o infallible_o prove_v the_o assembly_n where_o such_o a_o act_n be_v perform_v to_o be_v formal_o a_o church_n this_o be_v the_o thing_n that_o shall_v have_v be_v clear_v or_o else_o the_o thing_n be_v not_o clear_v but_o this_o our_o reverend_a author_n do_v not_o clear_a at_o all_o and_o the_o contrary_n be_v very_o plain_a from_o sundry_a instance_n in_o the_o act_n where_o the_o apostle_n do_v exercise_v the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n in_o the_o hear_n of_o multitude_n in_o sundry_a place_n where_o yet_o for_o all_o this_o there_o be_v not_o forthwith_o any_o church_n and_o therefore_o whereas_o he_o say_v the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n be_v not_o consider_v in_o this_o assembly_n as_o preacher_n and_o teacher_n in_o the_o act_n of_o teach_v because_o then_o the_o assembly_n shall_v have_v be_v formal_o a_o church_n we_o rather_o think_v they_o that_o shall_v consider_v it_o will_v find_v that_o the_o apostle_n do_v and_o other_o elder_n in_o these_o day_n may_v put_v forth_o the_o act_n of_o teach_v and_o preach_v in_o some_o assembly_n suppose_v assembly_n of_o turk_n and_o indian_n and_o yet_o the_o assembly_n not_o thereby_o prove_v to_o be_v church_n chap._n vi_o whether_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o of_o the_o dependence_n of_o the_o synagogue_n upon_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi at_o jerusalem_n next_o of_o all_o in_o his_o page_n 414_o in_o a_o 16_o the_o objection_n in_o this_o and_o the_o former_a page_n he_o say_v thus_o therefore_o be_v the_o synagogue_n of_o the_o jew_n no_o 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and_o high_a church_n answ_n to_o leave_v what_o be_v allege_v aâ—_n object_v by_o other_o and_o to_o consider_v only_o of_o that_o which_o concern_v ourselves_o because_o the_o synagogue_n in_o israel_n be_v dependent_a on_o the_o great_a synedrion_fw-mi at_o jerusalem_n therefore_o some_o will_v infer_v that_o congregation_n in_o these_o day_n must_v be_v dependent_a on_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o synod_n to_o this_o argument_n we_o be_v endeavour_v to_o give_v answer_n in_o the_o place_n allege_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n where_o we_o show_v that_o the_o synagogue_n may_v be_v dependent_a and_o not_o complete_a church_n because_o the_o sacred_a ordinance_n of_o god_n which_o be_v of_o ordinary_a use_n can_v not_o be_v perform_v in_o they_o but_o congregation_n in_o these_o day_n complete_a and_o entire_a as_o have_v liberty_n to_o enjoy_v the_o use_n of_o all_o the_o ordinance_n within_o themselves_o for_o both_o which_o particular_n we_o allege_v the_o testimony_n and_o word_n of_o 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congregation_n or_o the_o congregation_n will_v be_v partial_a and_o unjust_a or_o when_o the_o business_n be_v difficile_a and_o intricate_a than_o we_o may_v appeal_v from_o the_o congregation_n else_o we_o may_v not_o these_o thing_n i_o say_v do_v not_o clear_v the_o matter_n at_o all_o because_o still_o the_o question_n remain_v who_o must_v be_v judge_n of_o these_o thing_n whether_o the_o party_n appeal_n or_o the_o congregation_n from_o who_o or_o the_o synod_n to_o who_o the_o appeal_n be_v make_v and_o unless_o this_o be_v determine_v the_o thing_n mention_v allege_v by_o our_o brother_n do_v afford_v we_o small_a help_n in_o the_o matter_n for_o the_o clear_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o what_o we_o say_v in_o the_o answer_n do_v still_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v remain_v sound_n viz._n that_o there_o must_v be_v some_o final_a and_o supreme_a judgement_n that_o controversy_n may_v not_o by_o appeal_n after_o appeal_n be_v spin_v out_o in_o infinitum_fw-la and_o to_o 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that_o other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a evil_n or_o the_o party_n among_o themselves_o who_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n do_v prove_v the_o contrary_n and_o of_o supremacy_n of_o power_n in_o congregation_n but_o though_o our_o author_n do_v not_o clear_v it_o to_o we_o where_o the_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v yet_o in_o this_o pag_n 423_o and_o 424._o he_o use_v a_o argument_n from_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n act._n 15._o and_o our_o own_o doctrine_n concern_v the_o same_o to_o prove_v that_o it_o do_v not_o lie_v in_o the_o congregation_n which_o argument_n we_o be_v willing_a to_o consider_v his_o word_n be_v those_o that_o supremacy_n of_o power_n shall_v be_v in_o a_o congregation_n without_o any_o power_n of_o appeal_n i_o think_v our_o brethren_n can_v teach_v for_o when_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n can_v judge_v a_o matter_n concern_v the_o necessity_n of_o keep_v moses_n law_n they_o by_o nature_n direction_n act._n 15._o 2._o decree_n to_o send_v paul_n and_o barnabas_n and_o other_o to_o jerusalem_n to_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n as_o to_o a_o high_a judicature_n that_o there_o truth_n may_v be_v determine_v and_o then_o he_o add_v that_o mr._n tompson_n and_o myself_o do_v teach_v that_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n have_v jus_o power_n to_o judge_n and_o determine_v the_o controversy_n but_o because_o of_o the_o difficulty_n have_v not_o light_a to_o judge_v thereof_o allege_v for_o this_o in_o the_o margin_n the_o answer_n chap._n 4._o page_n 42._o ergo_fw-la say_v he_o they_o must_v acknowledge_v appeal_v by_o nature_n light_n warrantable_a as_o well_o as_o we_o answ_n that_o appeal_n be_v warrantable_a and_o warrantable_a by_o nature_n light_n till_o we_o come_v to_o the_o supreme_a judicatorie_a this_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o have_v former_o yield_v no_o less_o but_o for_o that_o our_o brother_n here_o aim_v at_o viz._n appeal_v from_o a_o congregationall_a church_n as_o not_o be_v supreme_a to_o another_o judicatory_a this_o we_o conceive_v be_v not_o prove_v by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n nor_o by_o any_o thing_n that_o we_o have_v write_v concern_v the_o same_o and_o the_o reason_n it_o because_o antioch_n have_v right_a and_o authority_n to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n have_v serve_v thereto_o and_o their_o send_n to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_n may_v argue_v want_n of_o agreement_n or_o imperfection_n of_o light_n but_o argue_v no_o want_n of_o authority_n or_o right_n within_o themselves_o for_o it_o be_v plain_a verse_n 2_o that_o antioch_n do_v endeavour_v to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o and_o have_v much_o disputation_n about_o it_o for_o that_o end_n afore_o there_o be_v any_o speech_n of_o send_v to_o jerusalem_n now_o this_o endeavour_n do_v argue_v their_o right_n for_o otherwise_o it_o have_v be_v sinful_a as_o be_v a_o presume_v to_o do_v that_o which_o do_v not_o belong_v to_o they_o this_o reason_n we_o have_v render_v afore_o in_o the_o place_n which_o our_o author_n allege_v and_o he_o do_v not_o at_o all_o remove_v it_o and_o therefore_o we_o be_v still_o of_o the_o same_o mind_n as_o before_o that_o antioch_n be_v not_o dependent_a upon_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o other_o church_n but_o have_v independent_a power_n within_o themselves_o as_o many_o may_v have_v who_o yet_o need_v the_o help_n of_o light_n from_o other_o for_o their_o direction_n in_o use_v their_o power_n great_a king_n and_o monarch_n have_v receive_v light_n from_o their_o counsellor_n without_o any_o impeachment_n of_o their_o independent_a power_n which_o they_o have_v in_o themselves_o and_o without_o any_o ascribe_v of_o that_o power_n to_o those_o their_o counselor_n as_o we_o say_v in_o the_o place_n allege_v antioch_n may_v send_v to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v and_o yet_o this_o send_v neither_o prove_v right_a of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o who_o be_v send_v unto_o nor_o want_v of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o who_o do_v send_v and_o therefore_o whereas_o our_o brother_n say_v antioch_n because_o of_o the_o difficulty_n of_o the_o controversy_n have_v not_o light_a to_o judge_v thereof_o ergo_fw-la we_o must_v acknowledge_v appeal_v to_o be_v warrantable_a we_o will_v rather_o argue_v thus_o antioch_n want_v light_n ergo_fw-la counsel_n and_o light_n be_v to_o be_v seek_v elsewhere_o and_o thus_o we_o conceive_v the_o inference_n will_v hold_v but_o to_o say_v ergo_fw-la there_o must_v be_v appeal_v from_o the_o congregation_n to_o other_o in_o matter_n of_o jurisdiction_n this_o we_o conceive_v will_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o no_o more_o than_o it_o will_v follow_v king_n or_o other_o supreme_a civil_a ruler_n must_v seek_v light_a and_o direction_n from_o their_o counselor_n ergo_fw-la there_o lie_v a_o appeal_n from_o they_o to_o those_o counselor_n which_o consequence_n none_o will_v maintain_v nor_o affirm_v if_o the_o scripture_n have_v say_v that_o antioch_n do_v never_o attempt_v to_o â—nd_v that_o controversy_n as_o know_v that_o the_o end_n thereof_o belong_v not_o to_o they_o but_o to_o other_o or_o if_o it_o have_v say_v that_o the_o censure_v of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n have_v be_v perform_v by_o they_o of_o jerusalem_n and_o not_o by_o they_o of_o antioch_n as_o not_o belong_v to_o antioch_n but_o to_o they_o of_o jerusalem_n than_o our_o brother_n may_v have_v have_v some_o ground_n from_o antioch_n to_o prove_v the_o necessity_n or_o warrantablenesse_n of_o appeal_n from_o congregationall_a church_n to_o other_o judicatories_n but_o such_o no_o such_o thing_n be_v say_v we_o see_v not_o how_o this_o example_n can_v be_v any_o ground_n for_o the_o establish_n of_o such_o appeal_n or_o the_o take_n away_o from_o congregationall_a church_n their_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o themselves_o especial_o we_o see_v not_o how_o this_o our_o brother_n can_v allege_v the_o same_o for_o such_o a_o purpose_n consider_v what_o himself_o have_v write_v elsewhere_o in_o this_o learned_a treatise_n of_o he_o wherein_o he_o examine_v that_o answer_n of_o we_o two_o passage_n in_o his_o treatise_n i_o propound_v to_o consideration_n which_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o make_v for_o that_o independent_a or_o supreme_a power_n in_o congregation_n which_o here_o he_o be_v dispute_v against_o the_o one_o be_v that_o which_o we_o touch_v before_o in_o his_o page_n 413._o where_o he_o say_v that_o synod_n in_o case_n of_o neglect_n of_o presbyterial_a church_n be_v to_o command_v the_o particular_a church_n who_o it_o concern_v to_o do_v their_o duty_n as_o in_o other_o particular_n there_o name_v so_o in_o excommunication_n of_o offender_n and_o further_o that_o the_o synod_n act._n 15._o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n which_o i_o
within_o itself_o either_o therefore_o a_o congregation_n with_o only_a three_o elder_n be_v no_o politic_a body_n of_o christ_n or_o else_o it_o must_v have_v power_n of_o church_n government_n within_o itself_o beside_o if_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n ordinary_a intensive_a be_v according_a to_o the_o entire_a essence_n of_o a_o ministerial_a church_n be_v as_o complete_a and_o perfect_a in_o one_o single_a congregation_n as_o in_o a_o provincial_n national_n or_o catholic_a church_n as_o our_o author_n say_v it_o be_v p._n 307._o it_o be_v then_o a_o marvel_n why_o such_o a_o congregation_n have_v only_o three_o elder_n may_v not_o have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v last_o his_o word_n be_v express_v page_n 338._o where_o there_o be_v not_o many_o church_n consociate_v than_o ordination_n and_o excommunication_n may_v be_v do_v by_o one_o single_a congregation_n if_o therefore_o a_o congregation_n have_v not_o above_o three_o elder_n yet_o be_v not_o consociate_v with_o other_o church_n it_o may_v lawful_o excommunicate_v by_o his_o own_o grant_n for_o decide_v question_n that_o concern_v many_o church_n if_o they_o decide_v they_o no_o further_o but_o only_o as_o they_o concern_v themselves_o this_o be_v no_o put_v a_o private_a sickle_n in_o a_o common_a and_o public_a harvest_n but_o a_o meddle_v with_o matter_n only_o so_o far_o as_o they_o do_v concern_v themselves_o second_o he_o say_v all_o appeal_n without_o warrant_n from_o christ_n will_n we_o condemn_v as_o the_o abuse_n of_o appeal_v to_o a_o court_n which_o be_v know_v shall_v never_o be_v page_z 425._o answ_n if_o appeal_v without_o warrant_n from_o christ_n will_v be_v condemn_v why_o be_v we_o not_o tell_v what_o appeal_v they_o be_v that_o have_v the_o warrant_v of_o christ_n will_n and_o what_o appeal_v have_v not_o for_o such_o a_o general_a word_n aâ—_n this_o of_o the_o warrant_n of_o christ_n will_n without_o some_o further_a and_o more_o particular_a explication_n do_v leave_v the_o matter_n as_o dark_a as_o it_o be_v before_o if_o the_o meaning_n be_v that_o only_o such_o appeal_v be_v unwarrantable_a as_o be_v make_v to_o a_o court_n which_o be_v know_v shall_v never_o be_v and_o that_o all_o other_o be_v warrantable_a than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o appeal_v to_o general_a counsel_n and_o all_o other_o court_n except_o only_o from_o a_o general_a council_n be_v warrantable_a for_o who_o do_v certain_o know_v that_o a_o general_a council_n will_v never_o be_v and_o so_o by_o this_o mean_v the_o class_n 〈◊〉_d synod_n and_o the_o national_n church_n be_v all_o deprive_v of_o supremacy_n and_o independency_n of_o jurisdiction_n as_o well_o as_o the_o congregation_n three_o he_o say_v antioch_n appeal_v to_o a_o synod_n 200_o mile_n distant_a as_o our_o brethren_n say_v be_v no_o judaize_v but_o that_o which_o paul_n and_o the_o apostle_n be_v guilty_a of_o as_o well_o as_o we_o answ_n whether_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n be_v 200_o mile_n distant_a or_o no_o as_o we_o have_v never_o affirm_v so_o much_o so_o i_o will_v not_o stand_v now_o to_o inquire_v but_o this_o i_o stand_v upon_o that_o no_o scripture_n do_v witness_v that_o antioch_n do_v appeal_v to_o jerusalem_n in_o the_o point_n of_o jurisdiction_n about_o which_o our_o question_n do_v lie_v if_o they_o do_v appeal_v to_o they_o for_o a_o doctrinal_a decision_n or_o determination_n of_o the_o question_n that_o nothing_o hinder_v our_o cause_n who_o do_v not_o deny_v such_o a_o doctrinal_a power_n in_o synod_n but_o their_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v the_o thing_n that_o shall_v be_v prove_v last_o if_o this_o example_n of_o antioch_n do_v prove_v that_o there_o may_v be_v and_o aught_o to_o be_v appeal_n from_o congregation_n to_o synod_n though_o those_o synod_n be_v 200_o mile_n distant_a then_o that_o which_o we_o say_v in_o the_o answer_n be_v here_o confess_v to_o be_v true_a viz._n that_o according_a to_o our_o brethren_n judgement_n the_o state_n of_o the_o church_n in_o point_n of_o discipline_n be_v as_o defective_a and_o burdensome_a in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o gospel_n as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o day_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n for_o as_o then_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a at_o jerusalem_n be_v many_o mile_n distant_a from_o such_o as_o dwell_v in_o the_o further_a part_n of_o the_o holy_a land_n and_o special_o from_o the_o proselyte_n that_o dwell_v in_o other_o country_n so_o here_o our_o author_n seem_v to_o yield_v that_o in_o these_o day_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n there_o must_v or_o may_v be_v appeal_n to_o synod_n though_o they_o be_v 200_o mile_n distant_a i_o hope_v then_o if_o other_o blame_v our_o way_n for_o make_v the_o gospel_n as_o defective_a and_o improvident_a as_o the_o law_n or_o more_o defective_a than_o it_o yet_o this_o our_o brother_n will_v not_o do_v so_o but_o on_o the_o contrary_n will_v acknowledge_v for_o we_o and_o with_o we_o that_o the_o way_n which_o himself_o plead_v for_o be_v more_o just_o 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be_v object_v which_o be_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o four_o particular_n of_o his_o answer_n that_o do_v any_o thing_n avail_v to_o either_o of_o these_o for_o if_o a_o rash_a deliver_v of_o man_n to_o satan_n have_v more_o evil_a in_o it_o then_o speedy_a end_n of_o controversy_n have_v good_a if_o appeal_v without_o warrant_n from_o christ_n will_n be_v unlawful_a if_o antioch_n do_v appeal_v to_o a_o synod_n 200_o mile_n distant_a and_o if_o matter_n concern_v many_o church_n must_v be_v end_v by_o many_o which_o four_o particular_n be_v the_o whole_a substance_n of_o his_o answer_n what_o be_v there_o in_o all_o this_o for_o i_o will_v glad_o apply_v his_o answer_n to_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o thing_n in_o question_n what_o be_v there_o i_o say_v in_o all_o this_o that_o 〈◊〉_d convince_v our_o way_n to_o be_v more_o defective_a than_o the_o way_n under_o the_o old_a testament_n or_o that_o do_v clear_v the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n from_o be_v true_o culpable_a thereof_o let_v all_o the_o evil_a that_o can_v be_v find_v in_o rash_a deliver_v man_n to_o satan_n be_v extend_v to_o the_o utmost_a and_o let_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o four_o particular_n be_v grant_v do_v all_o this_o sufficient_o clear_v it_o that_o the_o way_n which_o we_o plead_v for_o be_v more_o defective_a or_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n more_o perfect_a and_o excellent_a than_o the_o way_n that_o be_v use_v under_o the_o law_n if_o they_o do_v not_o amount_v to_o the_o clear_n of_o this_o they_o do_v not_o come_v up_o to_o clear_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n which_o for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v do_v still_o remain_v as_o it_o be_v notwithstanding_o all_o that_o our_o brother_n here_o bring_v chap._n x._o whether_o the_o necessity_n of_o discipline_n be_v great_a than_o of_o sacrament_n and_o whether_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n may_v not_o exercise_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n as_o well_o as_o one_o that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o a_o man_n may_v take_v on_o he_o the_o whole_a ministry_n have_v no_o outward_a call_n thereto_o and_o may_v not_o as_o well_o take_v on_o he_o one_o act_n of_o baptise_v or_o minister_a the_o lord_n supper_n the_o next_o place_n where_o i_o find_v our_o reverend_a brother_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o page_n 453_o 454._o where_o dispute_v that_o there_o be_v a_o presbyterial_a church_n at_o jerusalem_n he_o say_v it_o be_v object_v by_o we_o allege_v the_o answer_n page_n 6._o that_o if_o a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n by_o divine_a institution_n and_o so_o the_o first_o congregation_n as_o jerusalem_n which_o do_v meet_v in_o solomon_n porch_n have_v once_o a_o entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n
though_o in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n the_o case_n be_v ordinary_a as_o in_o the_o dominion_n of_o wales_n there_o be_v scarce_o a_o congregation_n to_o be_v find_v within_o 20_o or_o 30_o mile_n 2._o suppose_v the_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a and_o rare_a may_v they_o violate_v the_o ordinary_a rule_n of_o christ_n for_o so_o some_o may_v think_v and_o say_v that_o though_o according_a to_o ordinary_a rule_n baptism_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n must_v be_v dispense_v only_o by_o man_n and_o by_o minister_n yet_o in_o the_o want_n of_o these_o the_o one_o may_v be_v dispense_v by_o a_o woman_n or_o midwife_n and_o both_o of_o they_o by_o such_o as_o be_v no_o minister_n and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v his_o answer_n answ_n our_o author_n scope_n and_o intention_n be_v to_o prove_v a_o presbyterial_a church_n at_o jerusalem_n i_o can_v apprehend_v a_o good_a reason_n why_o now_o he_o shall_v fall_v upon_o the_o place_n of_o the_o answer_n allege_v in_o as_o much_o at_o the_o place_n make_v not_o any_o mention_n of_o jerusalem_n at_o all_o nor_o of_o any_o presbyterial_a church_n there_o either_o one_o way_n or_o other_o but_o it_o seem_v he_o be_v willing_a to_o go_v something_o out_o of_o his_o way_n that_o so_o he_o may_v have_v a_o say_n to_o the_o answer_n yet_o if_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v so_o i_o can_v have_v desire_v that_o the_o word_n of_o the_o answer_n may_v have_v be_v keep_v without_o make_v alteration_n by_o leave_v some_o thing_n out_o and_o put_v other_o in_o of_o his_o own_o accord_n and_o by_o mention_v other_o with_o another_o face_n than_o be_v ever_o intend_v by_o we_o for_o though_o he_o be_v please_v to_o mention_v a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n and_o the_o first_o found_v congregation_n at_o jerusalem_n in_o his_o objection_n which_o heâ—_n bring_v in_o under_o mr._n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o yet_o he_o that_o shall_v peruse_v the_o place_n will_v find_v that_o neither_o of_o these_o be_v once_o mention_v by_o we_o at_o all_o and_o why_o then_o they_o shall_v be_v bring_v in_o as_o we_o i_o do_v not_o know_v and_o for_o the_o former_a part_n of_o our_o answer_n wherein_o we_o show_v that_o for_o a_o christian_a congregation_n to_o want_v neighbour_n congregation_n to_o who_o they_o may_v with_o conveniency_n have_v recourse_n and_o not_o so_o unusual_a as_o some_o may_v imagine_v we_o do_v not_o only_o allege_v for_o that_o end_n the_o dominion_n of_o wales_n as_o our_o brother_n do_v report_n but_o also_o the_o remote_a part_n of_o the_o north_n and_o special_o the_o state_n of_o thing_n in_o time_n and_o place_n of_o general_a persecution_n and_o general_a profaneness_n and_o new_a plantation_n in_o heathen_a country_n all_o which_o our_o brother_n do_v omit_v as_o if_o we_o have_v not_o mention_v any_o of_o they_o and_o whereas_o we_o mention_v the_o scarcity_n of_o congregation_n in_o the_o remote_a part_n of_o wales_n and_o of_o the_o north_n as_o intimate_v by_o our_o reverend_a brother_n mr._n herle_n in_o that_o learned_a and_o love_a discourse_n of_o he_o whereto_o we_o do_v apply_v our_o answer_n mr._n rutherford_n conceal_v that_o we_o do_v mention_v this_o as_o the_o apprehension_n or_o intimation_n of_o another_o and_o instead_o thereof_o make_v bold_a to_o set_v it_o down_o under_o our_o name_n as_o if_o we_o have_v deliver_v it_o as_o our_o own_o all_o which_o alteration_n omission_n and_o addition_n be_v such_o as_o we_o for_o our_o part_n will_v not_o willing_o have_v make_v the_o like_a in_o any_o work_n of_o he_o nor_o of_o any_o other_o man_n for_o let_v such_o liberty_n as_o this_o be_v take_v in_o repeat_v what_o man_n do_v speak_v or_o write_v and_o misapprehension_n of_o their_o true_a â—ntent_n and_o meaning_n must_v needs_o be_v breed_v hereby_o in_o the_o mind_n of_o all_o those_o that_o shall_v read_v or_o hear_v such_o report_n and_o believe_v the_o same_o nevertheless_o let_v we_o consider_v what_o our_o brother_n do_v return_v in_o his_o answer_n we_o think_v say_v he_o a_o ministry_n and_o discipline_n more_o necessary_a to_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o remote_a island_n or_o to_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n before_o they_o increase_v to_o such_o a_o number_n as_o can_v meet_v for_o their_o numerous_a multitude_n in_o one_o congregation_n than_o the_o sacrament_n when_o there_o be_v no_o minister_n to_o dispense_v they_o answ_n will_v not_o one_o think_v by_o thâ—se_a word_n and_o the_o other_o lay_v down_o in_o the_o objection_n that_o we_o have_v speak_v something_o of_o a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n and_o of_o the_o church_n in_o jerusalem_n else_o why_o shall_v these_o be_v object_v and_o answer_v as_o we_o but_o the_o truth_n be_v we_o have_v not_o speak_v one_o word_n either_o of_o the_o one_o or_o the_o other_o of_o these_o particular_n which_o will_v plain_o appear_v to_o he_o that_o shall_v view_v the_o place_n something_o we_o have_v speak_v in_o the_o general_a of_o a_o congregation_n that_o want_v neighbour_n which_o we_o do_v be_v thereunto_o lead_v by_o our_o reverend_a brother_n mr._n herle_n but_o of_o a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n and_o of_o the_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n in_o particular_a of_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n here_o speak_v of_o these_o we_o have_v say_v nothing_o second_o the_o former_a part_n of_o our_o answer_n that_o for_o a_o congregation_n to_o want_v neighbour_n be_v not_o so_o unusual_a as_o some_o may_v imagine_v this_o mr._n rutherford_n whole_o pass_v over_o in_o silence_n only_o he_o propound_v it_o in_o his_o objection_n in_o such_o sort_n as_o we_o have_v hear_v and_o so_o leave_v it_o whereby_o it_o seem_v he_o yield_v the_o thing_n and_o thereupon_o it_o follow_v that_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o a_o congregation_n must_v be_v yield_v frequent_o lawful_a it_o be_v frequent_o see_v that_o congregation_n want_v neighbour_n in_o which_o case_n their_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v not_o deny_v three_o for_o the_o second_o part_n of_o our_o answer_n we_o thus_o express_v ourselves_o therein_o viz._n that_o we_o suppose_v it_o be_v good_a to_o take_v heed_n how_o far_o we_o yield_v it_o lawful_a in_o extraordinary_a case_n to_o transgress_v and_o violate_v ordinary_a rule_n whereof_o we_o render_v the_o reason_n lest_o some_o body_n do_v thence_o infer_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o minister_a sacrament_n by_o non-minister_n in_o case_n minister_n be_v want_v this_o be_v that_o which_o we_o have_v say_v in_o this_o matter_n if_o therefore_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v take_v away_o what_o we_o have_v say_v herein_o he_o must_v say_v it_o be_v not_o good_a nor_o needful_a to_o take_v such_o heed_n but_o man_n may_v yield_v it_o lawful_a in_o such_o case_n to_o transgress_v and_o violate_v ordinary_a rule_n and_o never_o need_v to_o take_v heed_n how_o far_o they_o yield_v therein_o this_o indeed_o be_v contradictory_n to_o what_o we_o have_v say_v and_o if_o this_o be_v once_o clear_v for_o truth_n than_o i_o must_v confess_v our_o say_n be_v clear_o disprove_v but_o the_o clear_n of_o this_o we_o hope_v our_o brother_n will_v never_o attempt_v sure_o yet_o he_o have_v not_o do_v it_o and_o so_o our_o say_n yet_o remain_v as_o it_o be_v four_o whereas_o he_o say_v he_o think_v a_o ministry_n and_o discipline_n more_o necessary_a in_o the_o case_n he_o speak_v of_o than_o sacrament_n and_o there_o be_v no_o minister_n though_o this_o be_v not_o direct_o opposite_a to_o what_o we_o have_v say_v yet_o because_o i_o will_v consider_v of_o every_o thing_n wherein_o he_o seem_v to_o aim_v at_o we_o therefore_o i_o be_o willing_a to_o consider_v of_o this_o also_o our_o reverend_a brother_n think_v discipline_n in_o the_o case_n mention_v more_o necessary_a than_o sacrament_n and_o yet_o in_o his_o page_n 287_o 288._o handle_v that_o question_n whether_o discipline_n be_v a_o mark_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o lay_v down_o sundry_a distinction_n about_o the_o same_o he_o give_v we_o these_o several_a proposition_n in_o term_n first_o care_v to_o exercise_v discipline_n may_v be_v want_v in_o a_o true_a church_n second_o right_a discipline_n be_v not_o necessary_a to_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n as_o a_o city_n may_v be_v without_o wall_n a_o garden_n without_o a_o hedge_n three_o the_o exercise_n of_o discipline_n may_v be_v want_v and_o the_o church_n a_o true_a visible_a church_n four_o the_o church_n may_v retain_v the_o essence_n and_o be_v of_o a_o visible_a church_n and_o yet_o have_v no_o discipline_n in_o actual_a use_n or_o little_a in_o which_o place_n he_o cite_v and_o approve_v the_o judgement_n of_o parker_n cartwright_n and_o other_o who_o make_v discipline_n necessary_a only_o to_o the_o well-being_n of_o the_o church_n as_o be_v not_o indifferent_a but_o command_v in_o the_o word_n and_o necessary_a in_o
respect_n of_o its_o end_n now_o if_o this_o be_v all_o the_o necessity_n that_o be_v in_o discipline_n how_o be_v discipline_n more_o necessary_a than_o sacrament_n for_o may_v not_o as_o much_o be_v say_v of_o they_o as_o here_o be_v say_v of_o discipline_n be_v not_o sacrament_n necessary_a to_o the_o well-being_n of_o the_o church_n as_o be_v command_v in_o the_o word_n as_o well_o as_o discipline_n be_v and_o serve_v for_o excellent_a end_n as_o well_o as_o discipline_n do_v i_o suppose_v it_o will_v nâ—â—_n be_v deny_v and_o therefore_o the_o necessity_n of_o discipline_n above_o sacrament_n do_v not_o yet_o appear_v especial_o if_o that_o be_v consider_v withal_o which_o our_o brother_n teach_v elsewhere_o viz._n in_o his_o second_o p._n 211._o &_o sequ_fw-la where_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o sacrament_n be_v not_o only_o declarative_a sign_n but_o also_o real_a exhibitive_a seal_n of_o grace_n have_v a_o causality_n in_o they_o to_o make_v a_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o and_o so_o excel_v all_o civil_a seal_n which_o do_v add_v no_o new_a land_n to_o the_o owner_n of_o the_o charter_n seal_v therewith_o now_o if_o sacrament_n be_v thus_o excellent_a and_o effectual_a how_o be_v it_o that_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n discipline_n be_v make_v more_o necessary_a than_o they_o for_o a_o great_a elegy_n than_o here_o he_o give_v to_o sacrament_n i_o suppose_v himself_o will_v not_o give_v unto_o discipline_n yea_o in_o p._n 302_o he_o express_o affirm_v that_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v essential_a note_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o of_o discipline_n i_o conceive_v he_o will_v not_o say_v the_o same_o sure_o it_o be_v in_o the_o page_n follow_v distinguish_v betwixt_o note_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v necessary_a adâ—sse_n to_o the_o very_o be_v of_o a_o visible_a church_n and_o such_o as_o be_v necessary_a only_a ad_fw-la bene_fw-la esse_fw-la to_o the_o well-being_n thereof_o he_o express_o make_v discipline_n a_o work_n or_o note_n of_o this_o second_o sort_n and_o as_o we_o hear_v erewhile_o he_o in_o page_n 287_o express_o affirm_v it_o be_v not_o necessary_a to_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v some_o marvel_n why_o now_o 〈◊〉_d make_v discipline_n more_o necessary_a than_o sacrament_n but_o he_o give_v we_o two_o reason_n of_o this_o great_a necessity_n of_o discipline_n then_o of_o sacrament_n first_o that_o entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n in_o a_o congregation_n that_o want_v neighbour_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a second_o that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o moral_a necessity_n of_o sacrament_n as_o there_o be_v of_o discipline_n page_n 455._o concern_v the_o former_a his_o word_n be_v these_o viz._n that_o the_o church_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o may_v possible_o be_v extraordinary_a but_o that_o in_o such_o a_o case_n they_o have_v entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n whole_a and_o entire_a within_o themselves_o to_o excommunicate_v scandalous_a person_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a wherein_o first_o of_o all_o i_o observe_v a_o difference_n between_o he_o and_o our_o reverend_a brother_n mr._n herle_n who_o have_v grant_v that_o where_o there_o be_v no_o consociation_n or_o neighbourhood_n of_o congregation_n there_o a_o single_a congregation_n must_v not_o be_v deny_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n do_v present_o add_v that_o the_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a and_o so_o fall_v not_o within_o the_o compass_n of_o the_o question_n of_o the_o ordinary_a rule_n of_o church-government_n independency_n of_o church_n p._n 2._o plain_o confess_v that_o the_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a whereas_o mr._n rutherford_n here_o say_v it_o be_v not_o second_o as_o he_o express_o differ_v from_o mr._n herle_n so_o it_o be_v considerable_a whether_o his_o word_n do_v well_o agree_v with_o themselves_o for_o say_v he_o that_o the_o church_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o may_v be_v extraordinary_a but_o that_o in_o such_o case_n they_o have_v entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n of_o discipline_n within_o themselves_o to_o excommunicate_v scandalous_a person_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a which_o say_v needs_o good_a explication_n for_o it_o seem_v hard_a to_o conceive_v how_o the_o power_n and_o action_n of_o any_o subject_n or_o efficient_a shall_v be_v more_o usual_a and_o ordinary_a then_o it_o be_v very_o be_v and_o subsistence_n which_o yet_o must_v needs_o be_v if_o this_o stand_v good_a that_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n be_v extraordinary_a and_o yet_o the_o power_n of_o such_o a_o church_n to_o excommunicate_v be_v usual_a and_o ordinary_a three_o if_o their_o power_n of_o discipline_n yea_o entire_a power_n be_v in_o the_o case_n express_v orâ—â—â—ary_a shall_v we_o then_o say_v that_o if_o the_o case_n â—e_v otherwise_o so_o that_o a_o church_n be_v not_o alone_o but_o have_v neighbour_n entireness_n of_o power_n in_o such_o a_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a it_o seem_v aâ—_n must_v â—ay_n 〈◊〉_d or_o else_o we_o must_v say_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o both_o case_n be_v ordinary_a if_o this_o latter_a be_v say_v it_o be_v as_o much_o as_o we_o desire_v for_o than_o i_o hope_v it_o must_v not_o be_v a_o small_a 〈◊〉_d ordinary_a matter_n that_o must_v hinder_v a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n from_o exercise_v 〈…〉_z â—â—â—â—diction_n within_o themselves_o no_o more_o than_o a_o church_n that_o live_v alone_o 〈…〉_z power_n be_v ordinary_a in_o they_o both_o for_o if_o it_o be_v so_o in_o they_o both_o in_o the_o one_o as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o i_o know_v not_o why_o any_o small_a or_o ordinary_a matter_n shall_v hinder_v the_o one_o church_n any_o more_o than_o the_o other_o from_o the_o use_n and_o exercise_v of_o such_o entire_a power_n if_o we_o say_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v extraordinary_a though_o in_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o it_o be_v ordinary_a beside_o that_o such_o a_o say_n sound_v harsh_o and_o seem_v very_o improbable_a we_o shall_v by_o this_o mean_n make_v case_n extraordinary_a to_o be_v very_o frequent_a &_o usual_a in_o as_o much_o as_o all_o man_n know_v it_o be_v very_o usual_a for_o congregationall_a church_n to_o have_v neighbour_n and_o so_o if_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v extraordinary_a it_o will_v follow_v that_o extraorninary_a power_n be_v very_o usual_a and_o frequent_a so_o that_o inconvenience_n on_o each_o side_n do_v seem_v inevitable_o to_o follow_v against_o our_o brother_n cause_n upon_o this_o which_o here_o he_o affirm_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o be_v not_o extraordinary_a but_o let_v we_o here_o his_o reason_n in_o the_o subsequent_a word_n why_o this_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o be_v not_o extraordinary_a for_o it_o flow_v say_v he_o continual_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n and_o i_o suppose_v he_o must_v mean_v this_o of_o jurisdiction_n entire_a and_o complete_a for_o of_o this_o be_v the_o question_n and_o a_o few_o line_n afore_o he_o express_o call_v it_o entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n whole_a and_o entire_a within_o themselves_o now_o if_o this_o be_v true_a which_o here_o be_v say_v as_o for_o my_o part_n i_o conceive_v no_o other_o of_o it_o that_o it_o flow_v connatural_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o exercise_v entire_a jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o a_o church_n that_o have_v none_o must_v have_v this_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n since_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v agree_v to_o the_o one_o as_o well_o as_o to_o the_o other_o to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o to_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o our_o author_n tell_v we_o page_n 302._o that_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n be_v a_o church_n proper_o so_o call_v and_o have_v the_o essential_a note_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n agree_v to_o it_o and_o want_v nothing_o of_o the_o be_v and_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o if_o this_o be_v true_a of_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o shall_v we_o think_v it_o be_v not_o true_a of_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n do_v the_o accession_n of_o neighbour_n to_o a_o congregation_n take_v away_o from_o such_o a_o congregation_n the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n which_o it_o have_v before_o i_o conceive_v none_o will_v so_o say_v and_o if_o every_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n may_v exercise_v entire_a jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n as_o our_o brother_n
necessity_n will_v warrant_v a_o man_n to_o celebrate_v the_o lord_n supper_n without_o a_o call_n from_o the_o church_n which_o two_o saying_n for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v do_v not_o agree_v for_o in_o the_o one_o it_o be_v affirm_v that_o if_o they_o may_v exercise_v discipline_n and_o censure_n they_o may_v by_o the_o like_a reason_n administer_v sacrament_n and_o the_o other_o say_v they_o may_v exercise_v discipline_n and_o censure_n and_o yet_o may_v not_o administer_v sacrament_n and_o yet_o both_o the_o say_n be_v express_v by_o the_o same_o author_n pen._n chap._n xi_o whether_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v immediate_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v not_o agree_v to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o otherwise_o neighbour_a church_n be_v not_o a_o loss_n and_o whether_o pretence_n of_o maladministration_n be_v a_o sufficient_a reason_n for_o neighbour_a church_n to_o deprive_v a_o congregation_n of_o its_o power_n the_o next_o place_n where_o i_o find_v mr._n rutherford_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o his_o page_n 455._o where_o he_o bring_v in_o these_o word_n under_o mr._n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o viz._n if_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v immediate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o a_o congregation_n be_v essential_o a_o church_n than_o this_o power_n agree_v to_o all_o church_n whether_o consociate_v or_o not_o consociate_v and_o without_o respect_n of_o what_o neighbour_n they_o have_v whether_o many_o or_o few_o whether_o any_o or_o none_o second_o a_o congregation_n itself_o alone_o can_v have_v sole_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o then_o be_v deprive_v of_o it_o when_o god_n send_v neighbour_n for_o then_o neighbour_a church_n which_o be_v give_v for_o help_n shall_v be_v give_v for_o loss_n the_o contrary_a whereof_o ames_n say_v no._n do_v synod_n say_v he_o constitute_v a_o new_a form_n of_o a_o church_n thus_o far_o mr._n rutherford_n who_o in_o his_o margin_n allege_v mr._n tompson_n and_o i_o 16._o pag._n 4_o 5._o answ_n in_o one_o of_o these_o page_n of_o the_o answer_n viz._n p._n 5._o there_o be_v nothing_o at_o all_o to_o be_v find_v that_o look_n towards_o such_o a_o purpose_n as_o our_o brother_n have_v in_o hand_n and_o therefore_o this_o page_n shall_v not_o have_v be_v here_o allege_v the_o word_n of_o dr._n ames_n be_v more_o imperfect_o cite_v by_o our_o brother_n than_o they_o be_v allege_v in_o the_o answer_n for_o the_o answer_n allege_v they_o thus_o out_o of_o medulla_n theol._n lib._n 1._o chapter_n 3._o sect_n 27._o that_o the_o combination_n of_o church_n into_o class_n and_o synod_n do_v neither_o constitute_v a_o new_a form_n of_o a_o church_n nor_o ought_v by_o any_o mean_n to_o take_v away_o or_o impayer_n that_o liberty_n and_o power_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o his_o church_n since_o it_o serve_v only_o for_o the_o direct_n and_o further_a of_o the_o same_o whereas_o our_o brother_n express_v only_o those_o first_o word_n that_o synod_n do_v not_o constitute_v a_o new_a form_n of_o a_o church_n but_o all_o the_o rest_n wherein_o the_o chief_a strength_n of_o dr._n ames_n his_o testimony_n do_v lie_v they_o he_o do_v whole_o omit_v and_o leave_v out_o he_o also_o leave_v out_o the_o assent_n which_o be_v give_v by_o mr._n paget_n to_o this_o testimony_n of_o dr._n ames_n which_o assent_n as_o it_o be_v express_v in_o his_o defence_n p._n 107._o in_o these_o word_n this_o we_o do_v willing_o grant_v be_v also_o in_o the_o â—ame_n word_n allege_v by_o the_o answer_n in_o p._n 4._o but_o this_o be_v whole_o pass_v over_o by_o mr._n rutherford_n in_o silence_n now_o two_o such_o man_n as_o these_o be_v allege_v in_o the_o answer_n as_o plain_o affirm_v that_o the_o combination_n of_o church_n into_o class_n and_o synod_n must_v neither_o tollere_fw-la nor_o minuere_fw-la take_v away_o not_o impair_v or_o diminish_v the_o liberty_n or_o power_n of_o church_n but_o only_o serve_v for_o the_o direct_n and_o further_a of_o the_o same_o and_o the_o one_o of_o they_o be_v the_o chief_a patron_n of_o the_o power_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n it_o be_v some_o marvel_n to_o i_o that_o no_o word_n of_o answer_n be_v vouchsafe_v to_o they_o by_o mr._n rutherford_n but_o that_o their_o word_n be_v thus_o pass_v by_o with_o silence_n and_o the_o name_n of_o one_o of_o they_o not_o so_o much_o as_o mention_v how_o ever_o this_o be_v clear_a that_o he_o that_o gainsay_v the_o answer_n in_o this_o passage_n have_v not_o only_o the_o answer_n but_o also_o the_o reverend_a author_n here_o mention_v to_o be_v against_o he_o but_o let_v we_o come_v to_o consider_v of_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o answer_n which_o he_o subjoin_v in_o these_o word_n viz._n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n ergo_fw-la a_o total_a and_o complete_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n or_o congregation_n consociate_v it_o follow_v no_o way_n answ_n i_o desire_v the_o reason_n may_v be_v lay_v down_o according_a to_o our_o true_a meaning_n therein_o and_o in_o its_o full_a strength_n and_o then_o the_o former_a part_n thereof_o must_v not_o only_o speak_v of_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n that_o want_v neighbour_n but_o of_o entire_a power_n for_o thereof_o be_v the_o question_n and_o in_o the_o latter_a part_n the_o term_n must_v no_o be_v a_o church_n consociate_v but_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n now_o if_o entire_a power_n and_o jurisdiction_n do_v flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o this_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n be_v find_v in_o a_o congregation_n that_o want_v neighbour_n this_o entireness_n of_o power_n muâ—t_v thereupon_o be_v grant_v to_o such_o a_o congregation_n i_o then_o demand_v why_o the_o like_a entireness_n of_o power_n must_v not_o be_v grant_v as_o well_o to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n since_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n be_v find_v in_o this_o congregation_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v either_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n must_v be_v deny_v to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n or_o else_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n must_v be_v grant_v to_o such_o a_o congregation_n risibility_n and_o power_n of_o reason_n flow_v immediate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o man_n and_o power_n to_o defend_v itself_o and_o purge_v out_o excrement_n flow_v in_o like_a sort_n from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o humane_a body_n and_o power_n to_o govern_v itself_o with_o family_n government_n flow_v in_o like_a sort_n from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o family_n therefore_o we_o must_v not_o grant_v these_o power_n to_o be_v entire_a in_o such_o a_o man_n such_o a_o body_n or_o such_o a_o family_n as_o be_v alone_o and_o deny_v the_o same_o to_o one_o that_o have_v neighbour_n but_o must_v grant_v they_o alike_o unto_o all_o because_o this_o power_n flow_v from_o their_o very_a essence_n which_o be_v as_o true_o find_v in_o such_o as_o have_v neighbour_n as_o it_o be_v in_o those_o that_o be_v alone_o and_o the_o like_a may_v be_v say_v in_o other_o case_n and_o why_o it_o shall_v be_v otherwise_o in_o a_o congregationall_a church_n that_o the_o power_n of_o the_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o such_o a_o church_n shall_v therefore_o be_v entire_a in_o such_o a_o congregation_n as_o be_v alone_o in_o a_o island_n and_o yet_o not_o entire_a in_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n though_o this_o congregation_n have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o why_o these_o congregation_n i_o say_v shall_v thus_o great_o differ_v in_o their_o power_n and_o yet_o be_v alike_o in_o their_o essence_n from_o whence_o their_o power_n do_v flow_v for_o my_o part_n i_o yet_o do_v not_o understand_v the_o reason_n nor_o do_v that_o satisfy_v which_o mr._n rutherford_n here_o allege_v that_o one_o pastor_n in_o a_o congregation_n have_v as_o a_o pastor_n power_n to_o rebuke_v sin_n and_o to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n and_o yet_o when_o three_o pastor_n be_v add_v to_o help_v he_o he_o have_v not_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o rebuke_v sin_n and_o the_o sole_a and_o entire_a power_n to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n but_o these_o three_o pastor_n have_v power_n with_o he_o this_o i_o conceive_v do_v not_o help_v the_o matter_n at_o all_o for_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o these_o three_o pastor_n be_v add_v to_o the_o first_o have_v each_o of_o they_o the_o like_a power_n as_o the_o first_o have_v yet_o the_o power_n of_o the_o
that_o other_o church_n in_o such_o ease_n may_v take_v away_o the_o power_n from_o such_o a_o church_n for_o aught_o i_o see_v this_o will_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o no_o more_o than_o the_o other_o for_o though_o christ_n have_v not_o give_v to_o any_o church_n a_o power_n of_o male_a administration_n as_o mr._n rutherford_n speak_v yet_o have_v he_o give_v to_o every_o church_n a_o power_n of_o administration_n which_o if_o they_o manage_v not_o aright_o but_o do_v abuse_v the_o same_o the_o lord_n jesus_n will_v be_v displease_v with_o they_o for_o this_o abuse_n and_o other_o church_n may_v and_o aught_o to_o advise_v they_o and_o admonish_v they_o and_o testify_v against_o they_o for_o the_o same_o but_o for_o the_o power_n itself_o as_o christ_n himself_o do_v not_o forthwith_o deprive_v they_o thereof_o so_o much_o less_o may_v other_o church_n take_v it_o from_o they_o for_o who_o give_v they_o this_o authority_n per_fw-la in_o parem_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la potestatem_fw-la and_o church_n be_v all_o of_o equal_a authority_n and_o not_o one_o superior_a or_o inferior_a to_o another_o as_o therefore_o when_o child_n or_o servant_n in_o a_o family_n be_v not_o govern_v as_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v yet_o neighbour_n family_n have_v not_o warrant_v because_o of_o this_o male_a administration_n to_o invade_v the_o right_n and_o destroy_v the_o power_n of_o such_o a_o family_n even_o so_o it_o be_v in_o this_o case_n of_o church_n this_o maladministration_n in_o a_o church_n be_v not_o forthwith_o a_o sufficient_a warrant_n for_o neighbour_n church_n to_o invade_v the_o right_n of_o such_o a_o church_n and_o to_o take_v away_o its_o power_n from_o it_o especial_o if_o we_o do_v consider_v that_o this_o maladministration_n in_o a_o congregation_n may_v possible_o be_v but_o pretend_v and_o not_o real_a and_o that_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o class_n may_v paradventure_o be_v real_o such_o in_o which_o case_n mr._n rutherford_n say_v the_o power_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la be_v not_o of_o christ_n but_o their_o voice_n ought_v the_o jure_v to_o be_v swallow_v up_o by_o the_o congregation_n and_o the_o elder_n thereof_o this_o argument_n therefore_o from_o maladministration_n of_o the_o power_n of_o a_o congregation_n which_o mr_n rutherford_n say_v it_o be_v reason_n shall_v be_v destroy_v by_o another_o power_n add_v to_o it_o mean_v the_o power_n of_o a_o classis_fw-la be_v of_o no_o sufficient_a force_n to_o take_v away_o the_o power_n of_o a_o congregation_n at_o all_o not_o to_o establish_v the_o power_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la over_o the_o same_o be_v as_o just_o applyable_a against_o the_o classis_fw-la itself_o therefore_o for_o aught_o that_o do_v yet_o appear_v supreme_a ministerial_a church_n power_n which_o i_o conceive_v must_v needs_o be_v somewhere_o may_v as_o well_o be_v in_o the_o congregation_n as_o in_o the_o classis_fw-la and_o can_v neither_o by_o this_o argument_n of_o maladministration_n nor_o by_o any_o other_o that_o we_o have_v yet_o see_v be_v place_v in_o the_o classis_fw-la any_o more_fw-it then_o in_o the_o congregation_n chap._n xii_o whether_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v judge_n and_o whether_o mr._n rutherford_n can_v safe_o say_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v so_o teach_v and_o whether_o this_o say_n that_o party_n may_v not_o be_v judge_n do_v make_v against_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o congation_n any_o more_o than_o in_o a_o general_a or_o national_n council_n the_o next_o place_n where_o mr._n rutherford_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o his_o p._n 456._o where_o allege_v mr._n tompson_n and_o i_o page_z 5._o he_o have_v these_o word_n as_o we_o viz._n if_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v the_o sole_a judge_n which_o must_v be_v if_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v in_o the_o congregation_n as_o we_o grant_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n and_o the_o congregation_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o and_o so_o it_o shall_v be_v lawful_a for_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v against_o all_o equity_n and_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n it_o must_v then_o follow_v that_o it_o be_v not_o against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o a_o congregation_n though_o consociate_v with_o other_o congregation_n have_v entire_a jurisdiction_n within_o itself_o answ_n our_o word_n in_o the_o page_n allege_v be_v more_o prospicuous_a and_o clear_a than_o these_o which_o be_v here_o set_v down_o for_o we_o neither_o do_v we_o make_v any_o mention_n of_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n nor_o yet_o of_o a_o congregation_n consociate_v with_o other_o church_n lest_o of_o all_o do_v we_o say_v or_o report_v other_o to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v against_o all_o equity_n and_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n none_o of_o these_o thing_n be_v we_o and_o therefore_o that_o our_o true_a meaning_n may_v plain_o appear_v as_o it_o be_v i_o will_v transcribe_v a_o few_o of_o our_o word_n which_o be_v these_o viz._n sure_a we_o can_v think_v that_o there_o can_v be_v such_o a_o case_n imagine_v wherein_o you_o will_v grant_v it_o lawful_a for_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v against_o all_o equity_n and_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n and_o yet_o you_o grant_v that_o the_o case_n may_v be_v such_o that_o a_o single_a congregation_n may_v have_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o itself_o which_o seem_v to_o we_o plain_o to_o prove_v that_o for_o a_o congregation_n to_o be_v so_o independent_a as_o to_o be_v the_o final_a judge_n of_o offence_n within_o itself_o be_v not_o against_o all_o equity_n nor_o against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n as_o be_v intimate_v by_o you_o these_o be_v our_o word_n much_o differ_v from_o those_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n set_v down_o as_o we_o which_o i_o think_v meet_v to_o relate_v out_o of_o the_o answer_n that_o our_o meaning_n may_v appear_v as_o it_o be_v and_o no_o otherwise_o and_o now_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o our_o brother_n subjoin_v for_o answer_v none_o of_o we_o say_v he_o do_v teach_v that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v the_o judge_n it_o may_v fall_v out_o in_o a_o general_a council_n lawful_o convene_v from_o which_o their_o be_v no_o provocation_n yea_o and_o in_o a_o national_n council_n for_o all_o counsel_n may_v err_v the_o adverse_a party_n may_v judge_v as_o it_o be_v a_o lawful_a council_n according_a to_o a_o church_n constitution_n that_o condemn_v christ_n of_o blasphemy_n and_o they_o be_v also_o his_o enemy_n answ_n and_o may_v it_o not_o also_o fall_v out_o in_o a_o provincial_a synod_n and_o in_o a_o classis_fw-la or_o presbtytery_n of_o many_o church_n i_o suppose_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o the_o judge_n in_o all_o these_o may_v be_v the_o adverse_a party_n and_o so_o if_o the_o adverse_a party_n may_v not_o be_v judge_n than_o neither_o general_n nor_o national_n counsel_n nor_o provincial_n synod_n nor_o class_n nor_o presbytery_n may_v be_v judge_n because_o there_o be_v none_o of_o these_o but_o possible_o they_o may_v be_v party_n and_o so_o this_o argument_n party_n may_v not_o be_v judge_n do_v make_v no_o more_o against_o the_o congregation_n power_n of_o judge_v then_o against_o all_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n whatsoever_o unless_o therefore_o man_n will_v overthrow_v the_o power_n of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n whatsoever_o without_o exception_n of_o any_o they_o can_v have_v no_o help_n from_o this_o argument_n to_o overthrow_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o congregation_n not_o to_o insist_v upon_o that_o which_o may_v also_o be_v true_o allege_v that_o the_o objection_n have_v the_o like_a force_n if_o any_o at_o all_o against_o civil_a judicatories_n but_o be_v it_o so_o indeed_o as_o our_o brother_n affirm_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v teach_v that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v the_o judge_n i_o think_v he_o shall_v not_o thus_o have_v speak_v for_o i_o be_o much_o mistake_v if_o the_o contrary_a hereunto_o be_v not_o certain_o true_a for_o first_o of_o all_o i_o allege_v the_o word_n of_o reverend_a mr_n herle_n in_o his_o book_n of_o independency_n page_n 5._o allege_v in_o the_o answer_n page_n 6_o the_o very_a pag._n which_o here_o mr_n rutherford_n be_v deal_v against_o in_o which_o place_n of_o mr._n herle_v there_o be_v these_o word_n viz._n that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v gradual_a judicatories_n wherein_o the_o aggrieved_a party_n may_v appeal_v from_o the_o lesser_a to_o the_o high_a that_o against_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n the_o adverse_a party_n be_v not_o the_o sole_a
many_o may_v not_o it_o seem_v to_o be_v inconvenient_a and_o haâ—d_a to_o affirm_v either_o of_o these_o and_o yet_o the_o one_o or_o the_o other_o seem_v unavoidable_a by_o this_o that_o mr._n rutherford_n here_o teach_v for_o let_v it_o be_v grant_v that_o a_o congregation_n that_o be_v alone_o yea_o a_o general_a council_n yea_o a_o national_n council_n also_o may_v be_v judge_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n and_o that_o no_o light_n of_o nature_n be_v against_o the_o same_o and_o yet_o many_o congregation_n may_v not_o be_v so_o but_o then_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n will_v be_v against_o it_o let_v these_o thing_n i_o say_v be_v grant_v which_o be_v all_o of_o they_o grant_v and_o teach_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n and_o then_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v how_o the_o inconvenience_n mention_v can_v be_v avoid_v i_o mean_v how_o it_o can_v be_v avoid_v but_o either_o some_o man_n or_o church_n assembly_n may_v lawful_o do_v that_o which_o be_v against_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n or_o else_o that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n be_v change_v when_o many_o congregation_n do_v arise_v from_o that_o which_o it_o be_v when_o there_o be_v but_o one_o yea_o the_o difficulty_n and_o intricacy_n in_o this_o way_n be_v yet_o more_o if_o it_o be_v well_o consider_v for_o first_o of_o all_o when_o a_o congregation_n be_v alone_o it_o be_v yield_v that_o it_o be_v not_o against_o nature_n light_n for_o they_o to_o be_v judge_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n second_o when_o many_o congregation_n do_v arise_v now_o it_o be_v say_v it_o be_v against_o such_o light_n that_o they_o shall_v so_o be_v judge_n yet_o three_o when_o these_o congregation_n do_v gather_v into_o a_o national_n council_n than_o this_o light_n of_o nature_n will_v allow_v they_o to_o be_v judge_n as_o in_o the_o first_o case_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n that_o be_v alone_o and_o the_o same_o be_v also_o say_v of_o the_o general_a council_n so_o that_o here_o be_v strange_a vary_a and_o change_v of_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n and_o of_o that_o which_o be_v against_o it_o lawful_a or_o unlawful_a thereby_o and_o when_o good_a reason_n and_o ground_n be_v give_v for_o the_o clear_n of_o these_o thing_n we_o shall_v then_o consider_v further_o thereof_o and_o see_v more_o than_o yet_o we_o do_v in_o the_o mean_a time_n take_v what_o be_v grant_v that_o no_o light_n of_o nature_n forbid_v a_o congregation_n when_o it_o be_v alone_o to_o have_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o itself_o nor_o forbid_v the_o same_o to_o the_o general_a or_o national_n counsel_n i_o think_v it_o may_v thence_o be_v infer_v that_o the_o like_a must_v be_v allow_v to_o congregationall_a church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n and_o that_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o these_o be_v no_o more_o against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n then_o in_o the_o other_o for_o to_o say_v that_o one_o congregation_n may_v have_v this_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n alloweâ—_n it_o and_o other_o may_v not_o but_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n forbid_v it_o yea_o to_o say_v first_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n allow_v it_o and_o then_o it_o forbid_v it_o and_o then_o it_o allow_v it_o again_o these_o be_v such_o abstruse_a and_o intricate_a thing_n yea_o so_o apparent_o incongruous_a and_o inconsistent_a that_o it_o pass_v my_o understanding_n to_o perceive_v how_o they_o can_v stand_v together_o chap._n xiii_o whether_o the_o church_n at_o thessalonica_n and_o jerusalem_n be_v each_o of_o they_o more_o than_o one_o congregation_n and_o of_o mr._n baynes_n his_o judgement_n therein_o of_o the_o assembly_n mention_v luke_n 12._o and_o whether_o our_o saviour_n do_v there_o speak_v to_o his_o disciple_n only_o or_o to_o all_o the_o people_n also_o it_o be_v a_o wonder_n to_o i_o say_v our_o author_n page_n 457._o that_o thessalonica_n be_v but_o one_o congregation_n yet_o the_o apostle_n ascribe_v to_o they_o that_o which_o be_v a_o note_n to_o worthy_a baynes_n of_o the_o unmerous_a multitude_n of_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n from_o whence_o go_v the_o word_n of_o ged_a to_o all_o the_o world_n 1_o thes_n 1._o 8._o for_o from_o you_o sound_v out_o the_o word_n of_o the_o lord_n not_o only_o in_o macedonia_n and_o achaia_n but_o in_o every_o place_n your_o faith_n to_o god-ward_o be_v spread_v abroad_o answ_n all_o this_o do_v not_o hinder_v but_o thessalonica_n may_v be_v one_o congregation_n though_o perhaps_o a_o great_a one_o for_o that_o the_o word_n do_v sound_a out_o from_o they_o to_o other_o and_o their_o faith_n to_o godward_o be_v spread_v abroad_o what_o be_v there_o in_o all_o this_o to_o prove_v they_o be_v many_o congregation_n in_o one_o church_n and_o for_o mr._n baynes_n who_o our_o author_n worthy_o count_v a_o worthy_a man_n there_o be_v nothing_o in_o he_o that_o will_v serve_v mr._n rutherford_n his_o purpose_n but_o much_o that_o make_v for_o the_o contrary_n for_o it_o be_v well_o know_v in_o his_o diocesan_n trial_n he_o maintain_v at_o large_a that_o church_n by_o the_o appointment_n of_o chrâ—st_n be_v congregationall_a and_o deny_v that_o one_o congregation_n may_v be_v one_o church_n and_o in_o the_o particular_a instance_n of_o the_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n at_o coâ—iâ—th_n at_o ephesus_n at_o antioch_n and_o other_o he_o hold_v the_o very_a same_o that_o we_o do_v and_o the_o direct_a contrary_a to_o that_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n stand_v for_o and_o therefore_o whereas_o he_o wonder_v that_o thessalonica_n shall_v be_v one_o congregation_n consider_v what_o the_o apostle_n say_v of_o they_o and_o what_o mr._n baynes_n have_v say_v of_o jerusalem_n i_o may_v more_o just_o wonder_a that_o he_o shall_v once_o mention_v mr._n baynes_n in_o this_o cause_n for_o if_o ever_o there_o be_v man_n in_o this_o world_n that_o denyâ—d_v many_o congregation_n to_o be_v one_o church_n and_o allow_v only_o such_o church_n to_o be_v institute_v of_o christ_n as_o may_v meet_v ordinary_o in_o one_o congregation_n this_o mr._n baynes_n be_v one_o of_o they_o and_o therefore_o a_o wonder_n it_o be_v to_o i_o that_o mr._n rutherford_n shall_v think_v to_o have_v help_n from_o he_o in_o this_o question_n but_o let_v we_o consider_v what_o it_o be_v that_o mr_n baynes_n do_v say_v of_o the_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n why_o this_o which_o the_o apostle_n affirm_v of_o the_o thessalonian_n mr._n baynes_n do_v make_v a_o note_n of_o the_o numerous_a multitude_n of_o the_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n but_o do_v he_o make_v it_o a_o note_n of_o many_o congregation_n in_o one_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n if_o he_o do_v this_o be_v something_o to_o the_o purpose_n i_o grant_v but_o i_o hope_v mr._n rutherford_n will_v not_o so_o report_v of_o mr._n baynes_n for_o it_o be_v plain_a mr._n bayneâ—_n do_v not_o so_o speak_v but_o express_o say_v the_o direct_a contrary_n and_o therefore_o what_o ever_o numerous_a multitude_n may_v be_v in_o that_o church_n and_o what_o ever_o may_v be_v a_o note_n of_o such_o multitude_n except_o mr._n baynes_n have_v say_v that_o the_o multitude_n be_v such_o as_o make_v many_o congregation_n and_o yet_o all_o but_o one_o church_n which_o he_o never_o say_v but_o the_o contrary_a there_o be_v no_o help_n to_o be_v have_v from_o mr._n baynes_n in_o this_o business_n for_o who_o know_v not_o that_o there_o may_v be_v a_o numerous_a multitude_n and_o yet_o but_o one_o congregation_n sure_o in_o mr._n baynes_n his_o judgement_n it_o may_v be_v so_o and_o therefore_o though_o he_o grant_v a_o numerous_a multitude_n in_o this_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n yet_o mr._n rutherford_n purpose_n for_o many_o congregation_n in_o thessalâ—nica_n and_o yet_o all_o but_o one_o church_n be_v not_o gain_v nor_o at_o all_o holpen_v thereby_o which_o will_v better_a appear_v if_o mr._n baynes_n his_o argumentation_n in_o the_o place_n which_o i_o conceive_v mr._n rutherford_n aim_v at_o be_v consider_v in_o page_n 3._o of_o his_o diocesan_n trial_n he_o propound_v a_o argument_n of_o they_o who_o will_v have_v many_o congregation_n to_o be_v one_o church_n take_v from_o the_o example_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n of_o rome_n and_o alexandria_n lay_v down_o in_o these_o word_n if_o the_o multitude_n of_o christian_n do_v in_o jerusalem_n so_o increase_v within_o a_o little_a time_n that_o they_o exceed_v the_o proportion_n of_o one_o congregation_n how_o much_o more_o likely_a be_v it_o that_o christian_n in_o rome_n and_o alexandria_n do_v so_o increase_v in_o 200_o year_n that_o they_o can_v not_o keep_v in_o one_o particular_a assembly_n but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a ergo_fw-la also_o the_o latter_a now_o when_o he_o came_v to_o answer_v this_o argument_n pag._n 18_o 19_o what_o do_v he_o then_o say_v first_o of_o all_o he_o say_v the_o proposition_n be_v not_o of_o necessary_a
then_o that_o much_o people_n that_o believe_v may_v so_o assemble_v much_o more_o for_o if_o there_o be_v no_o impossibility_n but_o a_o company_n that_o be_v great_a may_n so_o assemble_v i_o suppose_v the_o same_o can_v be_v deny_v of_o a_o company_n that_o be_v lesser_a again_o to_o say_v this_o whole_a church_n be_v a_o great_a number_n than_o the_o much_o people_n that_o believe_v be_v direct_o to_o gainsay_v himself_o who_o in_o page_n 460_o 461._o make_v the_o much_o people_n a_o great_a number_n than_o the_o congregation_n meet_v for_o the_o word_n sacrament_n and_o church_n censure_n because_o such_o a_o congregation_n he_o say_v can_v not_o convenient_o exceed_v one_o thousand_o whereas_o the_o much_o people_n must_v be_v much_o in_o comparison_n of_o thousand_o of_o jew_n who_o reject_v christ_n for_o that_o otherwise_o it_o will_v not_o have_v be_v much_o for_o paul_n comfort_n for_o which_o end_n it_o be_v mention_v and_o bring_v if_o it_o be_v say_v the_o whole_a church_n be_v less_o than_o the_o people_n that_o believe_v than_o it_o follow_v that_o some_o of_o those_o believer_n be_v not_o of_o the_o church_n and_o so_o what_o himself_o have_v write_v page_n 125._o 242._o 251._o will_v not_o stand_v for_o in_o page_n 125_o he_o say_v that_o the_o seal_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o truth_n be_v that_o which_o make_v one_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o by_o this_o be_v all_o the_o citizen_n and_o domestics_n inchurched_n and_o receive_v into_o a_o visible_a church_n and_o page_n 242._o he_o say_v any_o who_o blamelesse_o profess_v christ_n be_v ecclesiastical_o in_o foro_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la a_o true_a and_o valid_a member_n of_o the_o church_n visible_a have_v ecclesiastical_a power_n valid_a for_o that_o effect_n and_o page_n 251._o he_o say_v a_o visible_a profession_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o doctrine_n of_o golinesse_n be_v that_o which_o essential_o constitute_v a_o visible_a church_n and_o every_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n now_o if_o these_o thing_n be_v so_o than_o it_o follow_v that_o this_o whole_a people_n that_o believe_v be_v all_o of_o they_o member_n of_o the_o church_n inasmuch_o as_o they_o be_v all_o partaker_n of_o baptism_n and_o profession_n which_o he_o say_v do_v essential_o constitute_v the_o visible_a church_n and_o every_o member_n thereof_o and_o they_o be_v all_o member_n of_o the_o church_n than_o the_o church_n be_v not_o a_o lesser_a company_n than_o they_o nor_o can_v he_o say_v it_o be_v a_o great_a company_n for_o the_o reason_n mention_v before_o and_o if_o it_o be_v neither_o a_o great_a company_n nor_o a_o lesser_a be_v it_o not_o then_o the_o same_o and_o if_o it_o be_v the_o same_o then_o how_o can_v this_o stand_v which_o he_o affirm_v in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n where_o he_o say_v the_o whole_a church_n be_v not_o the_o whole_a much_o people_n that_o believe_v it_o seem_v to_o i_o that_o which_o way_n soever_o he_o shall_v take_v his_o own_o pen_n will_v be_v witness_n against_o himself_o for_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n he_o say_v the_o whole_a church_n be_v not_o the_o whole_a much_o people_n that_o believe_v and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o much_o people_n that_o believe_v be_v a_o great_a number_n than_o the_o whole_a church_n meet_v for_o word_n sacrament_n etc._n etc._n and_o yet_o in_o a_o three_o place_n he_o tell_v we_o that_o in_o effect_v it_o be_v not_o great_a inasmuch_o as_o all_o baptise_a profess_v believer_n he_o say_v be_v of_o the_o church_n further_o when_o the_o text_n speak_v of_o the_o whole_a church_n come_v together_o in_o some_o place_n let_v the_o wise_a judge_n whether_o it_o be_v a_o good_a exposition_n to_o say_v by_o the_o whole_a be_v not_o mean_v the_o whole_a but_o only_o a_o part_n which_o i_o conceive_v be_v mr._n rutherford_n exposition_n who_o will_v not_o yield_v that_o the_o whole_a do_v come_v together_o in_o any_o one_o place_n but_o part_n in_o one_o place_n and_o part_n in_o another_o the_o whole_a be_v distribute_v into_o several_a part_n and_o those_o part_n into_o several_a place_n so_o that_o the_o whole_a church_n come_v together_o into_o some_o place_n must_v have_v this_o meaning_n the_o whole_a come_v not_o together_o in_o any_o place_n but_o part_n in_o one_o place_n and_o part_n in_o another_o which_o i_o fear_n be_v too_o much_o violence_n offer_v to_o the_o sacred_a text_n which_o shall_v be_v handle_v with_o reverence_n but_o he_o bring_v a_o reason_n for_o this_o exposition_n and_o that_o be_v this_o because_o else_o we_o must_v say_v that_o at_o any_o one_o assembly_n all_o the_o prophet_n and_o teacher_n do_v prophesy_v at_o corinth_n for_o the_o text_n say_v he_o be_v convince_v of_o all_o he_o be_v judge_v of_o all_o whereas_o the_o consequence_n shall_v be_v absurd_a it_o shall_v be_v a_o longsome_a and_o wearisome_a meeting_n page_z 465._o answ_n and_o if_o they_o prophesy_v not_o all_o in_o one_o assembly_n but_o divers_a how_o can_v the_o unbeliever_n be_v convince_v and_o judge_v by_o they_o all_o it_o will_v not_o be_v easy_a to_o conceive_v how_o it_o can_v be_v they_o prophesy_v in_o such_o a_o way_n for_o the_o unbeliever_n sure_o can_v not_o be_v present_a in_o sundry_a assembly_n at_o once_o but_o in_o one_o only_a and_o therefore_o those_o word_n he_o be_v convince_v of_o all_o he_o be_v judge_v of_o all_o will_v lay_v as_o much_o absurdity_n upon_o his_o exposition_n of_o the_o word_n as_o upon_o we_o or_o rather_o a_o great_a deal_n more_o for_o as_o for_o we_o there_o be_v no_o absurdity_n therein_o at_o all_o for_o asmuch_o as_o by_o all_o the_o prophet_n be_v mean_v all_o that_o prophesy_v at_o the_o time_n when_o the_o unbeliever_n be_v present_a and_o not_o that_o all_o must_v prophesy_v upon_o one_o day_n as_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v have_v it_o but_o the_o text_n do_v not_o so_o say_v nor_o any_o interpreter_n that_o i_o have_v meet_v withal_o sure_o i_o be_o beza_n say_v the_o express_a contrary_n for_o upon_o verse_n 31._o you_o may_v all_o prophesy_v one_o by_o one_o etc._n etc._n he_o have_v this_o note_n non_fw-la eodem_fw-la sane_fw-la die_fw-la sed_fw-la ternis_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v indeed_o not_o all_o upon_o one_o day_n which_o be_v mr._n rutherford_n exposition_n but_o three_o at_o every_o moe_v have_v their_o turn_n to_o speak_v till_o all_o have_v speak_v by_o course_n interpreter_n say_v they_o meet_v in_o divers_a assembly_n page_n 465._o answ_n let_v those_o interpreter_n be_v name_v and_o there_o word_n set_v down_o and_o then_o by_o god_n help_n we_o shall_v consider_v of_o what_o they_o say_v and_o of_o the_o ground_n and_o reason_n thereof_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n to_o say_v that_o interpreter_n say_v it_o and_o yet_o neither_o to_o tell_v we_o the_o reason_n nor_o the_o word_n of_o those_o interpreter_n nor_o so_o much_o as_o the_o name_n of_o any_o of_o they_o how_o shall_v this_o prevail_v with_o we_o to_o turn_v we_o away_o from_o our_o former_a apprehension_n in_o the_o point_n true_a it_o be_v in_o another_o place_n etc._n etc._n pag_n 461._o speak_v of_o verse_n 31._o yea_o may_v all_o prophesy_v one_o by_o one_o he_o there_o tell_v we_o that_o diodatus_n understand_v it_o that_o they_o may_v prophecy_n by_o course_n and_o in_o divers_a or_o sundry_a assembly_n and_o essius_n say_v he_o say_v the_o same_o to_o wit_n that_o these_o prophet_n be_v to_o prophesy_v in_o divers_a assembly_n answ_n for_o diodatus_n i_o have_v he_o not_o at_o hand_n and_o therefore_o i_o can_v peruse_v the_o place_n but_o for_o estius_n this_o i_o may_v say_v that_o he_o neither_o say_v what_o here_o be_v report_v in_o his_o commentary_n upon_o the_o verse_n allege_v nor_o upon_o any_o verse_n else_o in_o all_o the_o chapter_n as_o far_o as_o i_o can_v observe_v and_o i_o have_v read_v and_o peruse_v he_o on_o purpose_n to_o see_v what_o be_v to_o be_v find_v in_o he_o but_o though_o i_o can_v find_v he_o affirm_v that_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n bring_v he_o for_o yet_o i_o find_v sundry_a place_n wherein_o he_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o affirm_v the_o contrary_a for_o instance_n comment_v upon_o the_o verse_n allege_v he_o have_v these_o word_n as_o the_o sense_n which_o he_o most_o prefer_v viz._n quod_fw-la si_fw-la non_fw-la unus_fw-la tantum_fw-la propheta_fw-la sed_fw-la plures_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v if_o not_o only_o one_o prophet_n but_o sundry_a yea_o all_o do_v speak_v in_o the_o assembly_n in_o order_n it_o will_v come_v to_o pass_v that_o those_o all_o may_v also_o learn_v and_o receive_v exhortation_n there_o be_v never_o a_o one_o of_o they_o who_o be_v not_o also_o a_o hearer_n wherein_o we_o see_v he_o speak_v not_o
the_o affirmative_a be_v as_o good_a as_o in_o that_o other_o case_n in_o which_o our_o brethren_n do_v think_v it_o so_o strong_a viz._n for_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n over_o congregation_n from_o the_o communion_n and_o assistance_n government_n teach_v by_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n to_o other_o society_n and_o our_o reverend_a brother_n grant_v that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n do_v teach_v the_o one_o as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o unto_o other_o society_n that_o be_v that_o they_o shall_v end_v in_o monarchy_n as_o well_o as_o have_v communion_n in_o government_n our_o answer_n be_v that_o thereupon_o the_o consequence_n will_v be_v as_o strong_a for_o the_o one_o as_o for_o the_o other_o in_o church_n in_o which_o argue_v it_o be_v easy_a to_o perceive_v that_o we_o go_v upon_o the_o ground_n which_o be_v lay_v and_o give_v we_o by_o our_o author_n and_o therefore_o for_o m._n rutherford_n to_o suppress_v this_o ground_n which_o we_o have_v there_o so_o plain_o express_v and_o to_o represent_v and_o set_v down_o our_o argue_v as_o if_o there_o have_v be_v no_o such_o matter_n this_o indeed_o may_v make_v way_n for_o himself_o to_o give_v answer_n to_o we_o with_o ease_n but_o whether_o it_o be_v candid_a and_o fair_a thus_o to_o deal_v i_o leave_v it_o to_o himself_o and_o the_o godly_a wise_a to_o consider_v in_o the_o same_o pag._n 482._o he_o allege_v the_o answer_n pag._n 26._o and_o set_v down_o these_o word_n as_o we_o viz._n the_o grecian_n and_o hebrew_n make_v not_o two_o church_n but_o one_o congregation_n they_o call_v the_o multitude_n of_o the_o disciple_n together_o vers_n 2._o answ_n here_o again_o our_o word_n be_v set_v down_o unperfect_o for_o the_o question_n be_v whether_o those_o grecian_n and_o hebrew_n act._n 6._o be_v two_o several_a congregation_n in_o one_o church_n or_o both_o but_o one_o congregation_n we_o for_o this_o latter_a do_v not_o only_o allege_v that_o one_o particular_a which_o mr._n rutherford_n mention_v that_o the_o apostle_n call_v the_o multitude_n of_o the_o disciple_n together_o vers_n 2._o but_o moreover_o that_o this_o multitude_n must_v look_v out_o seven_o man_n due_o qualify_v who_o they_o may_v appoint_v over_o that_o business_n v_o 3._o and_o that_o the_o say_v please_v this_o whole_a multitude_n and_o that_o they_o thereupon_o choose_v seven_o who_o be_v there_o name_v v._n 5._o and_o set_v they_o before_o the_o apostle_n v_o 6._o who_o lay_v their_o hand_n on_o they_o ibid._n in_o all_o which_o say_v we_o there_o be_v no_o hint_n of_o two_o congregation_n one_o of_o grecian_n and_o another_o of_o hebrew_n but_o all_o the_o business_n of_o choose_v and_o ordain_v these_o deacon_n seem_v to_o be_v transact_v and_o do_v in_o one_o congregation_n for_o when_o the_o text_n say_v that_o the_o apostle_n call_v the_o multitude_n of_o the_o disciple_n unto_o they_o and_o make_v a_o speech_n to_o this_o multitude_n be_v assemble_v and_o the_o whole_a multitude_n do_v hear_v what_o the_o apostle_n speak_v and_o well_o like_v the_o same_o and_o thereupon_o joint_o concur_v in_o one_o act_n of_o choose_v seven_o and_o present_v they_o be_v choose_v before_o the_o apostle_n it_o seem_v to_o i_o more_o rational_a to_o look_v at_o these_o thing_n as_o do_v in_o one_o congregation_n then_o to_o imagine_v there_o be_v two_o one_o of_o grecian_n another_o of_o hebrew_n for_o of_o two_o congregation_n wherein_o this_o choice_n of_o deacon_n shall_v be_v make_v the_o text_n for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v do_v not_o afford_v the_o least_o hint_n but_o let_v we_o hear_v mr._n rutherford_n his_o answer_n that_o the_o chief_a say_v he_o of_o both_o grecian_n and_o hebrew_n be_v contain_v in_o one_o to_o give_v their_o consent_n to_o the_o admission_n of_o the_o deacon_n i_o conceive_v answ_n the_o chief_a be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o once_o mention_v in_o the_o story_n but_o contrary_o the_o text_n express_o mention_v the_o multitude_n vers_fw-la 2._o and_o the_o whole_a multitude_n vers_fw-la 5._o now_o to_o exclude_v the_o multitude_n who_o the_o text_n do_v express_o mention_v and_o to_o attribute_v the_o assemble_v and_o act_v only_o to_o the_o chief_a of_o who_o the_o holy_a ghost_n speak_v not_o one_o word_n this_o to_o say_v no_o more_o seem_v a_o violent_a force_n of_o the_o text_n and_o if_o something_o have_v not_o force_v he_o to_o it_o i_o think_v he_o will_v not_o have_v use_v it_o for_o elsewhere_o viz._n p._n 495_o 496._o he_o allege_v this_o very_a scripture_n and_o that_o three_o several_a time_n within_o the_o space_n of_o a_o dozen_o or_o sixteen_o line_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o people_n yea_o the_o multitude_n be_v to_o have_v the_o choice_n of_o officer_n and_o say_v he_o if_o it_o please_v not_o the_o whole_a multitude_n act._n 6._o vers_fw-la 5._o it_o be_v not_o a_o choice_n and_o in_o pag._n 190._o he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o multitude_n act._n 6._o be_v direct_v to_o choose_v out_o seven_o man_n as_o be_v best_o acquaint_v with_o they_o and_o that_o according_o they_o do_v look_v out_o seven_o man_n and_o choose_v they_o in_o which_o place_n we_o see_v he_o can_v attribute_v this_o choice_n to_o the_o whole_a multitude_n without_o any_o mention_n of_o the_o chief_a or_o so_o much_o as_o the_o least_o intimation_n of_o the_o action_n to_o be_v perform_v by_o they_o the_o multitude_n be_v exclude_v or_o absent_a yea_o he_o give_v a_o reason_n of_o this_o choice_n which_o will_v reach_v the_o multitude_n and_o not_o the_o chief_a only_o except_o we_o shall_v say_v that_o the_o chief_a only_o be_v acquaint_v with_o these_o seven_o whereas_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n he_o will_v exclude_v the_o multitude_n and_o ascribe_v the_o action_n to_o the_o chief_a only_o but_o that_o all_o the_o thousand_o of_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n be_v here_o as_o in_o one_o ordinary_a congregation_n i_o judge_v unpossible_a answ_n for_o asmuch_o as_o the_o text_n tell_v we_o that_o the_o whole_a multitude_n of_o the_o disciple_n be_v gather_v together_o to_o act_v as_o here_o be_v record_v about_o the_o election_n of_o deacon_n therefore_o we_o judge_v that_o it_o be_v not_o unpossible_a for_o they_o so_o to_o do_v for_o how_o shall_v we_o judge_v the_o thing_n unpossible_a except_o we_o will_v judge_v the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o be_v unpossible_a to_o be_v true_a beside_o how_o many_o soever_o they_o be_v the_o text_n tell_v we_o act._n 2._o 46._o that_o they_o continue_v daily_o with_o one_o accord_n in_o the_o temple_n now_o temple_n we_o know_v there_o be_v none_o but_o one_o and_o therefore_o that_o they_o shall_v all_o assemble_v in_o one_o congregation_n we_o dare_v not_o judge_v a_o matter_n unpossible_a least_o in_o so_o judge_v we_o shall_v seem_v to_o question_v the_o truth_n of_o god_n testimony_n chap._n xxi_o whether_o congregation_n may_v be_v excommunicate_v by_o class_n and_o synod_n by_o virtue_n of_o those_o word_n matt._n 18._o tell_v the_o church_n as_o contain_v a_o rule_n and_o remedy_n for_o all_o offence_n or_o at_o the_o least_o a_o church_n remedy_n for_o the_o officer_n of_o church_n and_o churchmember_v and_o if_o yea_o whether_o it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o a_o national_a church_n must_v have_v the_o benefit_n of_o this_o remedy_n as_o well_o as_o other_o and_o so_o have_v no_o independency_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o itself_o but_o be_v subject_n to_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o general_a counsel_n which_o yet_o mr._n rutherford_n do_v deny_v in_o the_o same_o p._n 482._o he_o except_v against_o another_o passage_n in_o the_o answer_n p._n 27_o 28._o where_o he_o set_v down_o these_o as_o our_o word_n viz._n if_o our_o argument_n be_v good_a if_o thy_o brother_n offend_v and_o refuse_v to_o submit_v tell_v the_o church_n because_o christ_n remedy_n must_v be_v as_o large_a as_o the_o disease_n then_o if_o a_o national_a church_n offend_v you_o be_v to_o complain_v to_o a_o high_a church_n above_o a_o national_a church_n and_o because_o offence_n may_v arise_v between_o christian_n and_o indian_n you_o may_v complain_v of_o a_o indian_a to_o the_o church_n and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v his_o answer_n answ_n yet_o again_o our_o word_n be_v so_o imperfect_o relate_v as_o that_o our_o scope_n and_o intent_n do_v not_o sufficient_o appear_v to_o his_o reader_n i_o must_v therefore_o for_o the_o reader_n understanding_n relate_v the_o passage_n according_a to_o the_o true_a and_o plain_a meaning_n thereof_o the_o question_n between_o reverend_a mr._n herle_v and_o we_o be_v this_o whether_o congregation_n must_v depend_v on_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n and_o this_o reason_n be_v bring_v for_o the_o affirmative_a that_o christ_n remedy_n matth._n 18._o tell_v the_o church_n must_v be_v as_o large_a as_o the_o malady_n offence_n if_o therefore_o there_o
for_o so_o weak_a if_o sincere_a christian_n be_v sincere_a christian_n when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n suppose_v as_o bad_a as_o nero_n do_v it_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o in_o such_o time_n the_o sincere_a christian_n will_v be_v so_o many_o in_o number_n as_o to_o bear_v the_o name_n of_o the_o land_n or_o nation_n where_o they_o be_v for_o there_o lie_v the_o question_n and_o that_o it_o be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v otherwise_o i_o suppose_v no_o man_n can_v just_o affirm_v it_o for_o be_v they_o so_o many_o in_o england_n in_o the_o day_n of_o queen_n mary_n be_v they_o so_o many_o in_o scotland_n in_o the_o day_n of_o popish_a prince_n afore_o the_o reformation_n be_v they_o so_o many_o in_o spain_n in_o italy_n in_o turkey_n at_o this_o day_n do_v not_o the_o scripture_n say_v that_o when_o rehoboam_n forsake_v the_o lord_n all_o israel_n do_v the_o same_o with_o he_o 2_o chron._n 12._o 1._o and_o that_o jeroboam_fw-la do_v not_o only_a sin_n but_o make_v israel_n to_o sin_n and_o that_o when_o a_o ruler_n hearken_v to_o lie_n all_o his_o servant_n be_v wicked_a prov._n 29._o vers_fw-la 12._o which_o saying_n and_o many_o more_o that_o may_v be_v allege_v beside_o common_a experience_n do_v abundant_o witness_v that_o when_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n often_o time_n if_o not_o always_o sincere_a believer_n in_o those_o day_n be_v the_o small_a part_n of_o that_o land_n if_o m._n rutherford_n can_v prove_v this_o apprehension_n weak_a he_o must_v then_o prove_v the_o contradictory_n to_o be_v true_a viz._n that_o when_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n it_o be_v not_o like_a that_o many_o of_o the_o people_n will_v be_v of_o the_o magistrate_n mind_n but_o contrary_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o land_n will_v be_v sincere_a believer_n though_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n and_o when_o he_o have_v confirm_v this_o position_n which_o strong_a and_o convince_a proof_n he_o may_v then_o more_o free_o take_v his_o liberty_n to_o condemn_v the_o other_o for_o weak_a in_o the_o mean_a time_n i_o think_v it_o be_v weakness_n in_o we_o to_o depart_v from_o this_o apprehension_n without_o some_o better_a ground_n than_o yet_o be_v give_v to_o discover_v the_o weakness_n of_o it_o 2._o say_v he_o if_o your_o meaning_n be_v it_o can_v be_v conceive_v how_o they_o shall_v assemble_v in_o a_o national_a assembly_n when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n because_o it_o be_v not_o safe_a for_o fear_v of_o persecution_n than_o you_o say_v nothing_o to_o the_o argument_n because_o the_o argument_n be_v draw_v from_o a_o duty_n answ_n be_v those_o thing_n duty_n which_o be_v in_o nature_n impossible_a if_o not_o how_o be_v it_o a_o duty_n of_o a_o few_o believer_n in_o a_o land_n for_o when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o profess_a enemy_n i_o do_v still_o conceive_v the_o believer_n in_o that_o land_n to_o be_v but_o few_o a_o small_a part_n of_o the_o land_n how_o be_v it_o a_o duty_n i_o say_v for_o these_o few_o believer_n in_o a_o land_n to_o assemble_v in_o a_o national_a synod_n and_o there_o to_o enjoin_v a_o national_a covenant_n to_o be_v enter_v into_o not_o only_o by_o themselves_o which_o be_v but_o a_o few_o in_o comparison_n but_o also_o by_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o land_n which_o be_v far_o the_o great_a number_n if_o this_o be_v a_o duty_n it_o be_v more_o than_o i_o yet_o understand_v suppose_v it_o be_v their_o duty_n to_o enter_v into_o covenant_n with_o god_n for_o their_o own_o part_n suppose_v also_o it_o be_v the_o duty_n of_o other_o to_o do_v the_o like_a yet_o when_o the_o great_a part_n will_v not_o so_o do_v but_o be_v enemy_n to_o the_o truth_n of_o god_n like_o their_o magistrate_n be_v it_o nevertheless_o a_o duty_n of_o this_o small_a number_n to_o assemble_v in_o a_o national_a synod_n and_o there_o to_o enjoin_v a_o solemn_a covenant_n to_o be_v take_v by_o the_o land_n i_o mean_v not_o only_o by_o themselves_o but_o also_o by_o other_o who_o be_v far_o more_o in_o number_n than_o they_o do_v they_o fall_v short_a of_o their_o duty_n if_o they_o do_v not_o thus_o assemble_v and_o impose_v the_o covenant_n in_o the_o day_n of_o jeroboam_fw-la when_o the_o generality_n of_o the_o land_n walk_v after_o his_o wicked_a commandment_n hos_fw-la 5._o 11._o who_o make_v israel_n to_o sin_n yet_o then_o there_o be_v some_o in_o israel_n who_o retain_v their_o integrity_n and_o set_v their_o heart_n to_o seek_v the_o lord_n who_o also_o for_o that_o end_n come_v to_o jerusalem_n to_o sacrifice_v to_o the_o lord_n god_n of_o their_o father_n 2_o chron._n 11._o v_o 16._o but_o i_o do_v not_o remember_v that_o these_o few_o that_o be_v sincere_a in_o worship_n do_v ever_o come_v together_o in_o a_o national_a assembly_n in_o israel_n to_o renew_v the_o covenant_n with_o god_n and_o to_o enjoin_v the_o same_o to_o that_o great_a multitude_n of_o the_o backslide_a israelite_n nor_o that_o such_o a_o duty_n be_v require_v of_o they_o nor_o that_o they_o be_v blame_v by_o 〈◊〉_d lord_n nor_o any_o of_o his_o prophet_n for_o the_o neglect_n thereof_o and_o the_o case_n we_o have_v in_o stand_n be_v the_o same_o if_o you_o mean_v that_o because_o the_o prince_n power_n be_v against_o the_o synodical_a meeting_n this_o be_v nothing_o against_o the_o power_n of_o the_o synod_n that_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o his_o church_n answ_n we_o mean_v as_o we_o have_v say_v that_o those_o few_o believer_n in_o a_o land_n be_v overpower_v with_o the_o prince_n and_o people_n that_o be_v enemy_n therefore_o this_o assemble_v of_o those_o few_o in_o a_o national_a synod_n and_o there_o enjoin_v a_o national_a covenant_n be_v now_o not_o in_o their_o power_n and_o so_o not_o require_v at_o their_o hand_n if_o your_o meaning_n be_v that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o they_o to_o conveen_n in_o a_o national_a synod_n to_o renew_v a_o covenant_n with_o god_n against_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n will_v i_o hope_v you_o mind_n no_o such_o thing_n answ_n if_o it_o be_v our_o meaning_n how_o can_v it_o be_v hope_v that_o we_o do_v not_o mind_v it_o can_v our_o â—â—â—â—ing_n be_v one_o thing_n and_o our_o mind_n another_o but_o for_o his_o satisfaction_n and_o resolution_n 〈◊〉_d plain_a answer_n be_v this_o that_o we_o neither_o have_v mind_n nor_o meaning_n to_o meddle_v at_o all_o with_o that_o question_n whether_o church_n may_v assemble_v in_o national_a synod_n against_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n will_n for_o we_o do_v not_o think_v that_o mr._n herles_a treatise_n do_v lead_v we_o thereunto_o 〈…〉_z such_o a_o matter_n nor_o be_o i_o willing_a at_o this_o time_n to_o turn_v aside_o to_o the_o same_o but_o to_o keep_v close_o to_o my_o scope_n and_o aim_n which_o be_v to_o consider_v of_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o exception_n against_o the_o answer_n and_o therefore_o for_o his_o discourse_n which_o here_o he_o fall_v upon_o maintain_v at_o large_a against_o malignant_n and_o namely_o against_o tho_n fuller_n that_o the_o reformation_n begin_v in_o scotland_n and_o prosecute_v in_o england_n against_o the_o king_n will_v be_v lawful_a and_o warrantable_a by_o the_o wordâ—_n this_o discourse_n i_o say_v be_v altogether_o concern_v other_o and_o not_o we_o i_o will_v therefore_o pass_v it_o over_o and_o come_v to_o that_o wherein_o ourselves_o be_v concern_v chap._n xxiii_o whether_o the_o word_n church_n be_v not_o give_v to_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o whether_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o company_n or_o church_n meet_v only_o for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n and_o not_o for_o any_o other_o spiritual_a duty_n and_o whether_o the_o divers_a duty_n 1._o of_o word_n and_o sacrament_n 2._o of_o discipline_n etc._n etc._n must_v needs_o argue_v divers_a church_n pag_n 489._o the_o name_n church_n 1_o cor._n 14._o 4_o 5_o 35._o 27_o 28._o be_v plain_o give_v to_o that_o company_n that_o do_v assemble_v and_o come_v together_o for_o performance_n of_o spiritual_a duty_n and_o for_o the_o exercise_n of_o spiritual_a gift_n as_o act._n 14._o 27._o and_o 11._o 26._o and_o 15._o 4._o 22._o 30._o and_o 1_o cor._n 11._o 18_o 20_o 22_o 23_o 3_o john_n 6._o which_o place_n do_v abundant_o show_v that_o a_o company_n gather_v together_o in_o one_o place_n be_v call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o a_o church_n as_o centhera_n rom._n 16._o 1._o which_o can_v not_o contain_v many_o congregation_n be_v but_o the_o part_n of_o corinth_n and_o for_o this_o passage_n he_o allege_v the_o answer_n pag._n 32._o answ_n mr._n herle_n have_v say_v that_o the_o scripture_n never_o use_v the_o word_n church_n for_o a_o single_a congregation_n unless_o happy_o 1_o cor._n 14._o and_o that_o many_o congregation_n in_o one_o province_n or_o city_n be_v
frequent_o call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o a_o church_n we_o in_o answer_n to_o the_o former_a of_o these_o do_v give_v many_o instance_n p._n 31_o 32._o where_o a_o single_a congregation_n be_v call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o a_o church_n not_o only_o in_o 1_o cor._n 14._o which_o mr._n herle_n acknowledge_v though_o with_o a_o perhaps_o but_o also_o in_o sundry_a other_o scripture_n which_o here_o mr._n rutherford_n quote_v now_o let_v we_o hear_v his_o answer_n to_o this_o passage_n we_o seek_v no_o more_o say_v he_o answ_n be_v we_o then_o agree_v that_o in_o scripture_n language_n the_o word_n church_n be_v sundry_a time_n give_v to_o a_o single_a congregation_n if_o so_o then_o for_o this_o point_n the_o answer_n be_v not_o confute_v but_o confirm_v if_o it_o be_v call_v a_o church_n which_o conveen_v for_o performance_n of_o spiritual_a duty_n as_o some_o of_o your_o place_n do_v well_o prove_v ergo_fw-la no_o assembly_n shall_v have_v the_o name_n of_o church_n but_o such_o as_o assemble_v for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n this_o now_o you_o cannâ—t_v affirm_v and_o it_o follow_v not_o answ_n if_o this_o follow_v not_o what_o need_v it_o we_o never_o affirm_v it_o and_o our_o purpose_n that_o the_o word_n church_n be_v give_v in_o scripture_n to_o a_o single_a congregation_n be_v sufficient_o gain_v without_o it_o the_o church_n speak_v of_o matth._n 18._o be_v not_o assemble_v to_o word_n and_o sacrament_n but_o to_o bind_v and_o loose_v the_o meeting_n 1_o cor._n 5._o be_v not_o for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n but_o to_o deliver_v to_o satan_n the_o word_n church_n act._n 14._o 27._o be_v not_o a_o assembly_n for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n but_o to_o hear_v how_o god_n have_v open_v the_o door_n of_o faith_n unto_o the_o gentile_n if_o to_o be_v receive_v of_o the_o church_n act._n 15._o 4._o be_v matter_n of_o word_n and_o sacrament_n let_v all_o judge_n if_o to_o send_v a_o decree_n of_o a_o synod_n act._n 15._o 22._o be_v the_o act_n of_o a_o church_n assemble_v for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n let_v the_o world_n judge_n answ_n reverend_a sir_n keep_v to_o the_o point_n we_o never_o say_v that_o discipline_n and_o all_o other_o act_n whether_o perform_v by_o a_o church_n be_v word_n and_o sacrament_n and_o therefore_o there_o be_v no_o need_n to_o prove_v they_o be_v not_o and_o then_o to_o triumph_v as_o in_o a_o great_a victory_n the_o thing_n in_o question_n be_v this_o whether_o the_o name_n or_o word_n church_n be_v give_v in_o scripture_n to_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o if_o this_o be_v prove_v as_o the_o instance_n give_v i_o hope_v do_v prove_v it_o sufficien_o than_o it_o matter_n not_o what_o that_o particular_a spiritual_a church_n action_n be_v for_o which_o they_o do_v meet_v for_o whether_o it_o be_v that_o they_o meet_v for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n alone_o or_o whether_o it_o be_v for_o the_o word_n and_o prayer_n alone_o and_o not_o at_o that_o time_n for_o sacrament_n at_o all_o or_o whether_o it_o be_v for_o discipline_n or_o for_o any_o other_o church_n duty_n yet_o still_o if_o they_o come_v together_o into_o one_o place_n be_v it_o for_o all_o or_o for_o any_o of_o these_o end_n they_o be_v then_o a_o congregation_n for_o what_o be_v a_o congregation_n but_o a_o company_n so_o assemble_v in_o one_o place_n and_o so_o our_o tenet_n stand_v good_a and_o our_o purpose_n be_v gain_v for_o if_o they_o that_o come_v together_o into_o one_o place_n for_o church_n action_n and_o end_n be_v call_v in_o scripture_n by_o the_o name_n of_o a_o church_n than_o the_o word_n church_n be_v give_v to_o a_o company_n that_o so_o come_v together_o and_o such_o a_o company_n be_v a_o congregation_n it_o follow_v that_o the_o word_n church_n be_v use_v for_o a_o congregation_n what_o this_o congregation_n do_v when_o they_o be_v come_v together_o be_v not_o the_o question_n but_o if_o a_o congregation_n come_v together_o for_o church_n duty_n be_v in_o scripture_n call_v a_o church_n we_o have_v our_o intent_n if_o the_o word_n church_n be_v a_o meeting_n of_o person_n assemble_v to_o one_o place_n for_o spiritual_a duty_n sometime_o for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n only_o sometime_o for_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n only_o then_o be_v the_o word_n church_n by_o our_o brethren_n argument_n take_v both_o for_o the_o congregation_n and_o for_o the_o elder_n of_o one_o or_o of_o divers_a church_n and_o so_o we_o have_v our_o intent_n answ_n let_v the_o antecedent_n be_v grant_v yet_o the_o consequence_n be_v deny_v for_o the_o word_n church_n may_v be_v a_o meeting_n assemble_v sometime_o for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n only_o and_o sometime_o for_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n only_o and_o i_o add_v sometime_o for_o the_o word_n and_o prayer_n only_o without_o exercise_n of_o jurisdiction_n or_o sacrament_n and_o sometime_o for_o some_o other_o act_n or_o act_n than_o any_o of_o these_o that_o be_v name_v and_o yet_o for_o all_o this_o it_o may_v not_o be_v take_v for_o the_o elder_n alone_o of_o one_o church_n and_o much_o less_o for_o the_o elder_n of_o divers_a church_n the_o reason_n be_v because_o all_o these_o act_n may_v be_v perform_v by_o the_o congregation_n assemble_v sometime_o for_o one_o of_o they_o and_o sometime_o for_o another_o and_o therefore_o your_o intent_n be_v not_o yet_o attain_v who_o will_v have_v the_o word_n church_n to_o be_v take_v sometime_o for_o the_o congregation_n and_o sometime_o for_o the_o presbyter_n or_o elder_n alone_o we_o desire_v our_o brethren_n to_o prove_v which_o they_o must_v if_o they_o oppose_v our_o principle_n that_o the_o word_n church_n be_v never_o take_v for_o the_o eldership_n alore_n in_o all_o the_o word_n of_o god_n answ_n must_v we_o prove_v a_o negative_a and_o be_v that_o say_n affirmanti_fw-la incumbit_fw-la â—â—us_fw-la probandi_fw-la now_o become_v unreasonable_a unnecessary_a or_o of_o no_o force_n for_o my_o part_n i_o be_o still_o of_o the_o mind_n that_o he_o that_o affirm_v must_v in_o equity_n and_o reason_n prove_v what_o he_o affirm_v beside_o for_o ourselves_o we_o have_v this_o to_o say_v further_o that_o if_o we_o prove_v what_o we_o undertake_v we_o have_v do_v as_o much_o as_o can_v in_o reason_n be_v require_v of_o we_o though_o we_o do_v not_o prove_v this_o that_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v impose_v upon_o we_o and_o what_o be_v that_o which_o we_o undertake_v to_o prove_v nothing_o in_o this_o place_n but_o only_o this_o that_o the_o word_n church_n be_v take_v for_o a_o congregation_n in_o other_o scripture_n beside_o 1_o cor._n 14._o and_o this_o we_o have_v perform_v and_o prove_v already_o mr._n rutherford_n himself_o allow_v some_o of_o our_o proof_n for_o good_a and_o therefore_o have_v perform_v this_o point_n it_o be_v more_o than_o needs_o to_o be_v require_v of_o we_o to_o prove_v another_o also_o which_o we_o never_o undertake_v to_o prove_v as_o be_v quite_o beside_o our_o question_n which_o we_o be_v and_o still_o be_v desirous_a to_o keep_v close_o unto_o and_o not_o to_o wonder_v or_o be_v divert_v from_o it_o by_o any_o mean_n whereas_o our_o brethren_n say_v a_o company_n gather_v into_o one_o place_n which_o be_v nothing_o else_o but_o a_o congregation_n be_v call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o a_o church_n i_o answer_v such_o a_o company_n be_v only_o i_o suppose_v this_o be_v misprint_v for_o be_v not_o only_o call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o a_o church_n for_o a_o company_n meet_v for_o discipline_n only_o be_v a_o church_n also_o answ_n if_o a_o company_n gather_v into_o one_o place_n which_o be_v a_o congregation_n be_v call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o a_o church_n this_o be_v as_o much_o as_o we_o desire_v for_o our_o tenant_n be_v herein_o express_o grant_v to_o be_v true_a if_o a_o company_n meet_v for_o discipline_n only_o be_v a_o church_n also_o yet_o as_o long_o as_o the_o former_a be_v not_o deny_v the_o add_v of_o this_o other_o do_v no_o hurt_n to_o we_o at_o all_o it_o be_v false_a that_o a_o company_n gather_v into_o one_o place_n be_v nothing_o else_o but_o a_o congregation_n answ_n bona_fw-la verba_fw-la quaso_fw-es we_o have_v think_v that_o as_o a_o company_n assemble_v be_v a_o assembly_n a_o company_n meet_v be_v a_o meeting_n a_o company_n convocate_v a_o convocation_n so_o a_o company_n gather_v together_o or_o congregat_v have_v be_v a_o congregation_n but_o this_o be_v peremptory_o now_o condemn_v as_o false_a yet_o let_v we_o hear_v why_o as_o you_o take_v the_o word_n congregation_n for_o so_o your_o congregation_n be_v a_o assembly_n of_o man_n and_o woman_n meet_v for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n with_o the_o elder_n of_o the_o church_n answ_n and_o what_o if_o they_o meet_v for_o prayer_n also_o what_o if_o for_o the_o word_n and_o prayer_n without_o sacrament_n for_o this_o or_o
that_o time_n what_o if_o they_o meet_v for_o the_o admission_n of_o member_n also_o or_o for_o censure_v delinquent_n can_v mr._n rutherford_n prove_v that_o either_o of_o we_o i_o mean_v either_o mr._n tompson_n or_o myself_o or_o indeed_o any_o man_n else_o of_o that_o judgement_n which_o he_o oppose_v have_v deny_v a_o assembly_n meet_v for_o such_o end_n as_o these_o to_o be_v a_o congregation_n i_o suppose_v he_o can_v and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o well_o do_v to_o impute_v unto_o we_o such_o a_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n congregation_n as_o we_o never_o speak_v nor_o think_v of_o and_o then_o to_o say_v it_o be_v false_a that_o a_o company_n gather_v into_o one_o place_n be_v a_o congregation_n as_o that_o word_n be_v take_v by_o we_o i_o appeal_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o our_o reverend_a brethren_n if_o the_o church_n matth._n 18._o assemble_v to_o to_o bind_v and_o loose_v if_o the_o church_n assemble_v 1_o corin._n 5._o to_o deliver_v to_o satan_n and_o sundry_a other_o be_v there_o name_v to_o the_o like_a purpose_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n assemble_v for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n answ_n if_o the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n be_v not_o mention_v in_o the_o place_n allege_v but_o other_o action_n and_o duty_n must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o the_o church_n speak_v of_o in_o these_o place_n do_v assemble_v for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n may_v not_o one_o and_o the_o same_o church_n assemble_v for_o diverse_a end_n and_o action_n yea_o possible_o for_o diverse_a upon_o one_o day_n at_o the_o least_o wise_a it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o at_o several_a time_n of_o assemble_v a_o church_n may_v attend_v to_o diverse_a duty_n and_o action_n and_o yet_o still_o be_v one_o and_o the_o same_o congregation_n or_o church_n at_o one_o time_n which_o they_o be_v at_o another_o or_o otherwise_o we_o must_v say_v which_o be_v a_o very_a unwise_a saying_n that_o a_o church_n meet_v for_o diverse_a action_n to_o be_v perform_v upon_o one_o day_n as_o the_o word_n prayer_n psalm_n sacrament_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o the_o same_o church_n be_v one_o of_o these_o action_n that_o it_o be_v in_o another_o but_o be_v one_o church_n when_o they_o be_v at_o prayer_n another_o when_o they_o be_v sing_v psalm_n another_o when_o they_o be_v in_o exercise_n of_o the_o word_n or_o sacrament_n etc._n etc._n or_o if_o they_o meet_v one_o day_n for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n and_o another_o day_n for_o word_n and_o prayer_n without_o sacrament_n that_o nâ—w_o they_o be_v diverse_a church_n and_o not_o the_o same_o upon_o one_o of_o these_o day_n that_o they_o be_v upon_o another_o the_o nature_n and_o kind_n of_o their_o church_n be_v alter_v according_a to_o the_o several_a duty_n wherein_o they_o be_v exercise_v this_o argue_v i_o suppose_v mr._n rutherford_n will_v not_o own_v for_o good_a and_o yet_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v it_o be_v no_o worse_o but_o the_o very_a same_o with_o that_o which_o himself_o do_v here_o use_v who_o because_o the_o church_n mention_v matth._n 18._o 1_o corinth_n 5._o and_o other_o place_n by_o he_o name_v be_v say_v to_o meet_v for_o discipline_n or_o other_o duty_n will_v thereupon_o have_v it_o think_v that_o the_o church_n mention_v in_o those_o place_n be_v not_o a_o church_n that_o do_v ever_o meet_v for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n but_o be_v some_o other_o church_n of_o another_o kind_n which_o argue_v may_v be_v good_a if_o these_o which_o i_o have_v here_o above_o express_v be_v good_a but_o otherwise_o i_o conceive_v it_o can_v stand_v chap._n xxiv_o whether_o those_o child_n of_o israel_n numb_a 8._o 10._o who_o lay_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n be_v elder_n by_o office_n and_o as_o so_o consider_v do_v lay_v on_o their_o hand_n and_o whether_o this_o scripture_n do_v not_o prove_v that_o where_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n to_o be_v have_v there_o some_o principal_a member_n though_o not_o elder_n by_o office_n may_v impose_v hand_n on_o church_n officer_n the_o child_n of_o israel_n which_o be_v not_o the_o church_n officer_n lay_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n numb_a 8._o 10._o therefore_o when_o a_o church_n have_v no_o elder_n the_o people_n may_v confer_v ordination_n and_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v tie_v to_o the_o presbyter_n only_o and_o for_o this_o be_v allege_v the_o answer_n pag._n 46._o and_o then_o he_o add_v that_o other_o of_o our_o brethren_n say_v ordination_n be_v but_o accidental_a to_o a_o minister_n call_v and_o may_v be_v want_v if_o the_o people_n shall_v choose_v in_o defect_n of_o elder_n pag._n 491._o answ_n this_o latter_a clause_n shall_v not_o have_v be_v add_v as_o deserve_v a_o confutation_n except_o our_o brother_n will_v confute_v himself_o for_o as_o we_o hear_v afore_o himself_o do_v plain_o affirm_v pag._n 186_o 187._o that_o both_o be_v true_a pastor_n those_o who_o have_v no_o call_n but_o the_o people_n election_n and_o those_o who_o have_v ordination_n by_o pastor_n and_o that_o election_n by_o the_o people_n only_o may_v stand_v for_o ordination_n where_o there_o be_v no_o pastor_n at_o all_o which_o if_o it_o be_v so_o why_o shall_v the_o same_o thing_n in_o effect_n when_o it_o be_v hold_v by_o other_o be_v here_o insert_v in_o a_o objection_n as_o worthy_a to_o be_v speak_v against_o when_o himself_o do_v cast_v the_o very_a same_o it_o be_v marvel_n that_o our_o reverend_a brother_n shall_v thus_o go_v on_o in_o represent_v our_o word_n and_o mind_n amiss_o for_o as_o here_o he_o set_v down_o the_o objection_n under_o our_o name_n some_o of_o our_o word_n be_v change_v and_o alter_v other_o be_v substitute_v in_o their_o place_n some_o be_v whole_o suppress_v as_o if_o there_o have_v be_v none_o such_o and_o other_o be_v add_v as_o 〈◊〉_d which_o never_o come_v from_o we_o of_o the_o first_o sort_n be_v those_o of_o the_o people_n confer_v ordination_n whereas_o our_o word_n be_v not_o so_o but_o that_o the_o people_n may_v impose_v or_o lay_v on_o hand_n now_o between_o these_o two_o himself_o pag._n 492._o do_v make_v a_o great_a difference_n even_o as_o much_o as_o between_o the_o authoritative_a call_n of_o a_o minister_n and_o a_o rite_n annex_v to_o that_o call_n and_o further_o say_v that_o though_o he_o think_v imposition_n of_o handâ—_n not_o so_o essential_a perhaps_o at_o that_o a_o minister_n can_v be_v no_o minister_n without_o it_o yet_o of_o ordination_n he_o think_v otherwise_o and_o if_o he_o make_v so_o great_a a_o difference_n between_o imposition_n of_o handâ—_n and_o ordination_n why_o shall_v our_o word_n be_v forsake_v which_o import_n the_o lesser_a matter_n in_o his_o judgement_n and_o those_o other_o which_o he_o account_v do_v import_n much_o more_o be_v substitute_v in_o the_o room_n be_v this_o to_o burden_v our_o opinion_n or_o apprehension_n with_o a_o great_a odium_fw-la then_o our_o word_n in_o his_o own_o judgement_n will_v bear_v or_o be_v it_o to_o make_v his_o confutation_n of_o we_o more_o easy_a than_o it_o will_v have_v be_v if_o our_o own_o word_n have_v be_v retain_v and_o keep_v what_o ever_o be_v the_o cause_n hereof_o we_o can_v but_o think_v it_o have_v be_v better_a if_o it_o have_v be_v otherwise_o for_o omit_v and_o suppress_v some_o word_n of_o we_o which_o be_v the_o second_o particular_a i_o allege_v those_o of_o the_o time_n and_o place_n where_o elder_n can_v convenient_o be_v borrow_v from_o any_o other_o church_n the_o whole_a passage_n be_v this_o viz._n by_o which_o scripture_n to_o wit_n num._n 8._o 10._o thus_o much_o be_v manifest_a that_o when_o a_o châ—rch_n have_v no_o elder_n but_o the_o first_o elder_n themselves_o be_v to_o be_v ordain_v and_o this_o at_o such_o time_n and_o in_o such_o place_n where_o elder_n can_v convenient_o be_v borrow_v from_o any_o other_o church_n in_o such_o case_n imposition_n of_o hand_n may_v lawful_o be_v perform_v by_o some_o principal_a man_n of_o the_o congregation_n although_o they_o be_v not_o elder_n by_o office_n in_o which_o place_n these_o word_n at_o such_o time_n â—nd_v in_o such_o place_n etc._n etc._n though_o they_o contain_v a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o case_n wherein_o we_o think_v imposition_n of_o hand_n may_v be_v perform_v by_o non-elders_a yet_o they_o be_v whole_o conceal_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n as_o if_o there_o have_v be_v none_o such_o for_o what_o purpose_n himself_o best_o know_v but_o this_o be_v apparent_a that_o by_o his_o concealment_n or_o omission_n the_o way_n be_v make_v more_o easy_a and_o the_o ground_n more_o rational_a for_o that_o passage_n of_o he_o in_o the_o follow_a page_n where_o he_o say_v what_o if_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n in_o a_o single_a congregation_n it_o will_v not_o follow_v therefore_o the_o people_n be_v to_o lay_v on_o hand_n except_o say_v he_o there_o be_v
such_o appeal_v because_o such_o assembly_n do_v more_o seldom_o err_v because_o many_o eye_n do_v see_v more_o and_o do_v more_o seldom_o miscarry_v in_o take_v up_o the_o right_a object_n then_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o the_o great_a assembly_n in_o as_o much_o as_o they_o have_v the_o most_o eye_n do_v of_o all_o other_o most_v seldom_o err_v and_o so_o to_o they_o there_o must_v be_v the_o most_o appeal_v for_o the_o learned_a author_n well_o know_v à _fw-la quatenùs_fw-la ad_fw-la omniâ—_n valet_fw-la consequentia_fw-la and_o so_o by_o this_o mean_v the_o true_a cause_n and_o reason_n of_o appeal_v lie_v according_a to_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o apprehension_n in_o the_o rareness_n and_o seldomnesse_n of_o err_v in_o such_o assembly_n to_o who_o appeal_n be_v make_v and_o the_o cause_n of_o this_o seldomnesse_n of_o err_v lie_v in_o the_o multitude_n and_o great_a number_n of_o eye_n in_o such_o assembly_n it_o must_v needs_o thereupon_o follow_v that_o universal_a or_o general_a council_n as_o have_v in_o they_o the_o most_o eye_n be_v the_o assembly_n that_o do_v most_o seldom_o err_v and_o so_o unâ—o_v they_o there_o must_v be_v most_o appeal_v which_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v the_o classical_a 〈◊〉_d and_o national_n synod_n be_v all_o by_o this_o mean_v deprive_v and_o striâ—t_v of_o 〈◊〉_d of_o â—â—â—â—diction_n as_o well_o as_o the_o particular_a congregation_n the_o synod_n by_o 〈◊〉_d to_o general_a council_n as_o to_o those_o that_o do_v raâ—iùs_fw-la câ—rare_fw-la aswell_o as_o the_o 〈…〉_z appeal_v unto_o the_o synod_n and_o so_o thera_fw-la must_v be_v no_o entireness_n of_o 〈…〉_z only_o in_o the_o general_a council_n but_o from_o all_o other_o synod_n there_o must_v 〈◊〉_d liberty_n of_o appeal_v aswell_o as_o from_o the_o congregation_n this_o consequence_n for_o aught_o i_o see_v do_v unavoidable_o follow_v upon_o that_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n lay_v undowne_o as_o the_o cause_n of_o appeal_n from_o a_o particular_a congregation_n and_o so_o ouâ—_n brethren_n by_o this_o mean_n have_v spin_v a_o fine_a thread_n draw_v forth_o a_o conclusion_n which_o be_v every_o what_o as_o prejudicial_a to_o their_o own_o cause_n as_o to_o we_o if_o any_o ask_v why_o may_v not_o this_o consequence_n be_v own_v why_o may_v we_o not_o say_v there_o must_v be_v liberty_n of_o appeal_v from_o all_o synod_n and_o presbytery_n except_o only_o the_o general_a council_n the_o answer_n be_v thâ—t_v we_o may_v not_o so_o say_v because_o then_o cause_n will_v be_v too_o long_o depend_v aâ—ore_o they_o can_v come_v to_o issue_n yea_o perhaps_o will_v never_o come_v to_o issue_v as_o long_o as_o this_o world_n shall_v endure_v for_o by_o this_o rule_n they_o may_v by_o appeal_v upon_o appeal_n be_v protract_v until_o they_o be_v bring_v to_o a_o general_a council_n to_o be_v determine_v there_o now_o as_o there_o have_v not_o be_v any_o such_o council_n for_o many_o age_n bypass_a so_o it_o be_v very_o uncertain_a when_o there_o will_v be_v one_o assemble_v whether_o ever_o or_o never_o whilst_o this_o world_n stand_v but_o we_o think_v christ_n jesus_n have_v provide_v better_a for_o his_o church_n then_o so_o and_o have_v not_o appoint_v such_o a_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v upon_o appeal_n but_o that_o cause_n may_v be_v determine_v afore_o any_o general_a council_n can_v be_v assemble_v beside_o if_o such_o assembly_n may_v be_v frequent_o attain_v yet_o it_o be_v not_o yet_o clear_v that_o when_o they_o be_v assemble_v they_o have_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n at_o all_o but_o only_o a_o doctrinal_a power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n remain_v in_o some_o other_o assembly_n sure_o it_o be_v mr._n rutherford_n thus_o teach_v express_o for_o his_o word_n be_v these_o very_o i_o profess_v i_o can_v see_v what_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_n scandal_n can_v be_v in_o a_o general_a council_n there_o may_v be_v some_o mere_o doctrinal_a power_n if_o such_o a_o council_n can_v be_v have_v and_o that_o be_v all_o due_a right_n etc._n etc._n pag._n 482._o and_o in_o the_o end_n of_o the_o same_o page_n and_o beginning_n of_o the_o next_o speak_v of_o those_o word_n math._n 18._o tell_v the_o church_n he_o say_v thus_o because_o ordinary_a communion_n fail_v when_o you_o go_v high_o than_o a_o national_n church_n and_o christ_n way_n suppose_v a_o ordinary_a communion_n therefore_o i_o deny_v that_o this_o remedy_n be_v needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_n church_n by_o which_o saying_n it_o appear_v that_o he_o count_v christ_n remedy_n to_o censure_n scandal_n not_o needful_a in_o a_o general_a council_n yea_o and_o he_o serious_o profess_v that_o he_o can_v see_v that_o such_o a_o council_n if_o it_o can_v be_v have_v have_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n at_o all_o to_o censure_v scandal_n which_o be_v so_o it_o must_v needs_o follow_v that_o scandal_n must_v be_v censure_v and_o cause_n end_v somewhere_o else_o afore_o they_o can_v come_v 〈◊〉_d such_o end_n to_o a_o general_a council_n and_o if_o this_o be_v so_o then_o how_o can_v that_o stand_v which_o here_o he_o affirm_v that_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_n to_o synod_n in_o this_o because_o they_o do_v rariùs_fw-la errare_fw-la more_fw-mi seldom_o err_v than_o the_o particular_a congregation_n and_o have_v many_o eye_n do_v more_o seldom_o miscarry_v in_o take_v up_o the_o right_a object_n for_o this_o cause_n be_v most_o proper_o appliable_a to_o the_o general_a council_n unto_o who_o notwithstanding_o he_o deny_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n and_o if_o they_o hâ—ve_v no_o such_o power_n there_o can_v be_v no_o appeal_v to_o they_o for_o such_o purpose_n and_o end_n and_o how_o these_o thing_n can_v stand_v together_o that_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v to_o such_o or_o such_o assemly_n do_v he_o in_o this_o that_o they_o do_v more_o seldom_o err_v as_o have_v many_o eye_n and_o yet_o that_o to_o general_a council_n there_o shall_v be_v no_o appeal_v at_o all_o as_o have_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n though_o of_o all_o other_o this_o cause_n be_v most_o proper_o â—ound_v in_o they_o i_o for_o my_o part_n do_v confess_v i_o do_v not_o understand_v if_o any_o shall_v say_v that_o as_o mr._n rutheâ—ford_n do_v make_v that_o which_o i_o have_v mention_v the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v so_o he_o do_v also_o hold_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n even_o in_o general_a council_n and_o shall_v therefore_o doubt_v whether_o i_o do_v true_o report_v he_o 〈◊〉_d touch_v the_o contrary_a i_o will_v wish_v no_o more_o favour_n of_o such_o a_o one_o but_o to_o peruse_v the_o place_n which_o i_o have_v here_o above_o allege_a and_o then_o i_o hope_v he_o will_v â—nd_v the_o word_n to_o be_v no_o otherwise_o but_o as_o i_o have_v set_v they_o down_o i_o know_v indeed_o there_o be_v some_o place_n in_o he_o which_o do_v look_v another_o way_n as_o that_o where_o he_o say_v it_o be_v by_o accident_n and_o not_o through_o want_n of_o invatâ—_n and_o intrinsical_v power_n that_o the_o court_n of_o a_o catholic_n council_n can_v not_o in_o a_o ordinary_a and_o constant_a way_n exercise_v that_o power_n which_o now_o we_o be_v speak_v of_o due_a right_n page_n 308._o and_o a_o little_a after_o he_o say_v he_o see_v nothing_o to_o prove_v that_o a_o general_a council_n have_v not_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v a_o national_n church_n yea_o and_o further_o that_o if_o there_o be_v a_o general_a council_n at_o this_o dâ—y_n they_o may_v lawful_o in_o a_o juridical_a way_n so_o be_v his_o word_n do_v that_o to_o the_o faction_n of_o romish_a pretend_v catholic_n which_o he_o say_v be_v excommunication_n in_o the_o essence_n and_o substance_n of_o thâ—_n act._n and_o in_o the_o page_n next_o ensue_v he_o say_v this_o of_o our_o saviour_n tell_v the_o church_n be_v necessary_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o all_o church_n and_o court_n of_o christ_n even_o to_o a_o catholic_n council_n these_o place_n i_o confess_v do_v seem_v to_o i_o not_o very_o well_o to_o agree_v with_o the_o either_o afore_o allege_v for_o in_o the_o one_o he_o plain_o affirm_v there_o be_v in_o general_a council_n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n and_o in_o the_o other_o he_o do_v as_o plain_o deny_v the_o same_o but_o it_o be_v the_o former_a place_n and_o not_o these_o latter_a which_o i_o do_v stand_v upon_o in_o which_o former_a as_o i_o conceive_v he_o to_o hold_v the_o truth_n so_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v that_o which_o he_o say_v in_o this_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n about_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_n from_o congregation_n to_o synod_n be_v much_o infirm_v thereby_o for_o how_o can_v that_o be_v take_v to_o be_v the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v which_o be_v most_o
circumcision_n but_o do_v also_o rebuke_v they_o for_o another_o fault_n to_o wit_n their_o obtrude_a their_o false_a way_n upon_o the_o soul_n and_o conscience_n of_o other_o and_o for_o their_o wilful_a and_o obstinate_a uphold_v that_o opinion_n and_o raise_v a_o schism_n in_o the_o church_n but_o if_o all_o this_o be_v grant_v his_o purpose_n be_v not_o gain_v thereby_o unless_o he_o will_v prove_v that_o which_o he_o do_v but_o only_o affirm_v to_o wit_n that_o a_o synodical_a rebuke_n be_v not_o specifical_o different_a but_o only_a gradual_o from_o excommunication_n and_o that_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o the_o same_o power_n which_o yeâ—_n he_o have_v not_o prove_v at_o all_o but_o say_v he_o i_o argue_v thus_o if_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n refute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n in_o this_o synod_n but_o also_o in_o church_n way_n and_o by_o a_o juridical_a power_n do_v rebuke_n and_o synodical_o charge_v the_o author_n as_o subverter_n of_o soul_n and_o liar_n than_o they_o do_v not_o only_o use_v a_o mere_a doctrinal_a power_n in_o this_o synod_n but_o also_o a_o juridical_a power_n but_o the_o former_a be_v true_a ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o latter_a answ_n with_o favour_n of_o so_o learned_a a_o man_n i_o think_v this_o kind_n of_o argue_v be_v but_o a_o beg_n of_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o a_o prove_v of_o idem_fw-la per_fw-la idem_fw-la for_o if_o the_o synod_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n refute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n but_o also_o by_o a_o juridical_a power_n rebuke_v the_o author_n of_o it_o than_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v true_a indeed_o that_o they_o do_v not_o only_o use_v a_o doctrinal_a power_n but_o also_o a_o juridical_a power_n that_o be_v if_o they_o do_v so_o they_o do_v so_o if_o they_o do_v use_v such_o power_n they_o do_v use_v it_o but_o there_o still_o lie_v the_o question_n whether_o they_o do_v so_o or_o no_o and_o whether_o they_o do_v use_v such_o power_n or_o not_o and_o this_o kind_n of_o argue_v do_v not_o clear_v it_o all_o if_o we_o on_o the_o contrary_n shall_v argue_v thus_o if_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o put_v forth_o any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n or_o discipline_n but_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n conâ—ute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n and_o rebuke_v the_o author_n of_o it_o than_o they_o do_v only_o put_v forth_o a_o doctrinal_a power_n and_o not_o any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n one_o of_o far_o less_o ability_n than_o our_o learned_a author_n will_v soon_o espy_v the_o looseness_n of_o such_o reason_n at_o least_o himself_o we_o doubt_v not_o will_v soon_o espy_v it_o for_o sometime_o we_o hear_v he_o say_v friend_n your_o logic_n be_v naught_o page_n 177._o and_o yet_o be_v it_o speak_v without_o offence_n the_o logic_n which_o himself_o do_v here_o use_n be_v not_o so_o good_a as_o to_o be_v altogether_o without_o fault_n no_o not_o for_o the_o form_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o we_o do_v not_o see_v how_o any_o thing_n can_v be_v conclude_v thereby_o but_o to_o leave_v this_o mistake_n and_o to_o consider_v of_o the_o matter_n itself_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n consute_n a_o false_a doctrine_n but_o also_o rebuke_v the_o author_n thereof_o must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o this_o rebuke_v be_v do_v in_o a_o juridical_a way_n be_v there_o no_o rebuke_v of_o offender_n for_o their_o fault_n but_o only_o in_o a_o way_n of_o â—â—â—â—ction_n and_o discipline_n i_o suppose_v much_o need_v not_o to_o be_v say_v for_o the_o clear_n the_o truth_n to_o be_v otherwise_o for_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o confess_v page_n 394._o that_o there_o be_v great_a odds_o to_o do_v one_o and_o the_o same_o action_n material_o and_o to_o do_v the_o same_o formal_o and_o page_n 393._o that_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n which_o be_v so_o it_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o though_o this_o synod_n to_o call_v it_o so_o act._n 15._o have_v a_o doctrinal_a power_n yea_o and_o a_o power_n of_o rebuke_v these_o false_a teacher_n yet_o the_o thing_n that_o he_o from_o thence_o will_v infer_v viz._n their_o power_n of_o rebuke_v in_o a_o juridical_a way_n and_o their_o power_n of_o excommunication_n these_o be_v neither_o of_o they_o prove_v thereby_o for_o if_o it_o shall_v be_v say_v that_o though_o rebuke_v do_v not_o always_o imply_v juridical_a power_n yet_o if_o it_o be_v a_o synod_n that_o do_v rebuke_v than_o the_o power_n here_o speak_v of_o may_v be_v conclude_v thence_o to_o be_v in_o a_o synod_n the_o answer_n be_v that_o this_o will_v not_o help_v at_o all_o because_o this_o be_v nothing_o but_o the_o bring_n in_o of_o another_o efficient_a viz._n the_o synod_n for_o effect_v or_o act_v the_o same_o effect_n now_o master_n rutherford_n confess_v pag._n 393._o that_o he_o do_v not_o fetch_v the_o specification_n of_o this_o rebuke_n and_o of_o those_o decree_n from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n and_o give_v that_o for_o his_o reason_n which_o to_o i_o be_v unanswerable_a to_o wit_n because_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n and_o in_o the_o page_n next_o ensue_v he_o confess_v also_o that_o action_n have_v not_o by_o good_a logic_n their_o total_a specification_n from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n which_o be_v so_o then_o though_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o any_o synod_n may_v and_o that_o this_o synod_n do_v perform_v this_o action_n of_o rebuke_v yet_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n to_o wit_n that_o the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n be_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o of_o excommunication_n be_v not_o at_o all_o gain_v thereby_o at_o the_o least_o wise_a to_o end_v this_o passage_n this_o i_o may_v say_v that_o if_o this_o reverend_a brother_n will_v be_v true_a to_o his_o own_o principle_n and_o not_o gainsay_v what_o himself_o have_v already_o write_v he_o for_o his_o part_n can_v conclude_v the_o synod_n power_n to_o excommunicate_v from_o this_o argument_n of_o their_o power_n to_o rebuke_v nor_o yet_o from_o any_o other_o argument_n whatsoever_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o he_o do_v elsewhere_o confess_v that_o synod_n be_v not_o to_o excommunicate_v any_o and_o not_o this_o synod_n in_o particular_a to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n but_o to_o remit_v the_o censure_v of_o they_o to_o other_o church_n command_v they_o to_o do_v it_o his_o word_n as_o they_o be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o his_o page_n 413._o be_v these_o viz._n i_o can_v easy_o yield_v that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o the_o elicit_v act_n of_o many_o part_n of_o government_n such_o as_o excommunication_n ordination_n admit_v of_o heathen_n profess_v the_o faith_n to_o church-membership_a in_o synod_n provincicall_a national_n or_o ecumenical_a but_o that_o synod_n in_o the_o ease_n of_o neglect_n of_o presbyterycall_a church_n command_v these_o particular_a church_n who_o it_o concern_v to_o do_v their_o duty_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n act._n 15._o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n in_o which_o word_n we_o have_v two_o thing_n concern_v excommunication_n to_o omit_v other_o particular_n first_o that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n that_o synod_n shall_v excommunicate_v any_o but_o only_o command_v the_o church_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n therein_o second_o in_o particular_a concern_v that_o synod_n act_v 15._o that_o they_o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n or_o circumcision_n which_o particular_n be_v most_o true_a as_o i_o for_o my_o part_n so_o esteem_v of_o they_o it_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o what_o master_n rutherford_n say_v in_o this_o place_n we_o have_v now_o in_o hand_n be_v great_o weaken_v thereby_o for_o how_o both_o these_o can_v stand_v together_o that_o this_o synod_n shall_v have_v power_n not_o only_o to_o rebuke_v but_o to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n and_o yet_o neither_o provincial_n national_n nor_o ecumenical_a synod_n to_o excommunicate_v any_o nor_o this_o synod_n in_o particular_a to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n but_o to_o remit_v the_o censure_n to_o other_o church_n to_o who_o it_o concern_v command_v they_o to_o do_v it_o how_o these_o thing_n i_o say_v can_v stand_v together_o i_o for_o my_o part_n be_o not_o able_a to_o understand_v chap._n four_o of_o the_o dogmatic_a power_n of_o synod_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o determine_v matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n serve_v thereto_o in_o his_o page_n 396._o allege_v
synod_n we_o be_v not_o to_o be_v blame_v though_o we_o give_v not_o a_o synod_n that_o name_n answ_n pag._n 1._o the_o most_o that_o we_o have_v yield_v in_o this_o point_n be_v this_o that_o for_o the_o name_n we_o will_v not_o contend_v and_o that_o if_o a_o synod_n may_v be_v call_v a_o church_n then_o since_o they_o have_v power_n by_o disputation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n they_o be_v rather_o a_o teach_v then_o a_o govern_v church_n answer_n pag._n 1._o &_o 7._o this_o be_v all_o we_o have_v say_v and_o we_o desire_v our_o word_n may_v not_o be_v stretch_v beyond_o our_o intent_n and_o scope_n therein_o but_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o our_o brother_n will_v hence_o infer_v i_o infer_v say_v he_o that_o synodical_a teach_n by_o give_v out_o decree_v tie_v many_o church_n as_o our_o brethren_n of_o new-england_n and_o the_o forename_a author_n teach_v be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n that_o can_v be_v perform_v in_o no_o single_a congregation_n on_o earth_n for_o a_o doctrinal_a cannon_n of_o one_o congregation_n can_v lay_v any_o ecclesiastical_a tie_n upon_o many_o church_n ergo_fw-la by_o this_o reason_n our_o congregation_n shall_v be_v dependent_a as_o be_v the_o jewish_a synagogue_n answ_n when_o he_o say_v the_o brethren_n of_o new-england_n and_o the_o author_n of_o the_o answer_n do_v teach_v a_o synodical_a teach_n by_o give_v out_o decree_v tie_v many_o church_n and_o aledge_v for_o proof_n in_o his_o margin_n answ_n 7._o to_o 32._o q._n 9_o 14._o page_n 43_o 44._o and_o answer_v to_o mr._n herle_v chap._n 4._o pag._n 40._o 41_o with_o favour_n of_o so_o learned_a a_o man_n we_o must_v return_v this_o answer_n that_o neither_o of_o the_o palces_fw-la allege_v will_v make_v good_a his_o purpose_n in_o as_o much_o as_o neither_o of_o they_o do_v make_v any_o mention_n at_o all_o of_o the_o thing_n which_o he_o report_v they_o to_o teach_v viz._n such_o synodical_a teach_n as_o give_v out_o decree_v tie_v many_o church_n let_v the_o place_n be_v view_v and_o the_o thing_n will_v be_v find_v as_o i_o say_v and_o therefore_o how_o they_o can_v be_v say_v to_o teach_v that_o which_o they_o neither_o teach_v nor_o mention_v do_v surmount_v my_o ability_n to_o conceive_v if_o the_o reader_n will_v know_v what_o it_o be_v that_o be_v teach_v in_o the_o place_n it_o be_v no_o more_o but_o this_o that_o in_o some_o case_n it_o be_v requisite_a that_o church_n shall_v seek_v for_o light_n and_o counsel_n and_o advice_n from_o other_o church_n as_o antioch_n do_v send_v unto_o jerusalem_n in_o a_o question_n which_o they_o want_v ability_n to_o determine_v among_o themselves_o and_o that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v synod_n and_o that_o we_o think_v that_o meeting_n act_n 15._o might_n be_v such_o a_o one_o the_o first_o of_o these_o be_v teach_v in_o the_o formâ—â—_n of_o the_o place_n and_o the_o other_o in_o the_o other_o but_o for_o give_v out_o synodical_a decree_n tie_v many_o church_n this_o same_o be_v it_o within_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n or_o otherwise_o be_v 〈◊〉_d teach_v at_o all_o in_o either_o of_o the_o place_n except_o we_o shall_v say_v which_o we_o think_v be_v unreasonable_a that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o synod_n nor_o consult_v of_o other_o church_n for_o light_n and_o counsel_n and_o advice_n but_o there_o must_v be_v in_o those_o other_o church_n so_o consult_v withal_o a_o power_n to_o give_v out_o bind_v decree_n yea_o decree_n that_o shall_v bind_v or_o tie_v many_o church_n we_o think_v this_o latter_a do_v no_o way_n necessary_o follow_v upon_o the_o former_a and_o therefore_o though_o the_o place_n allege_v do_v speak_v to_o the_o former_a yet_o the_o latter_a which_o this_o author_n report_v they_o to_o teach_v they_o do_v not_o teach_v at_o all_o second_o i_o answer_v further_o that_o if_o such_o a_o doctrine_n be_v indeed_o teach_v in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v or_o any_o other_o yet_o the_o inference_n which_o he_o will_v thence_o bring_v in_o that_o then_o our_o congregation_n shall_v be_v dependent_a as_o be_v the_o jewish_a synagogue_n thâ—s_v same_o do_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o the_o synagogue_n be_v dependent_a on_o the_o supreme_a synedrion_n not_o only_o for_o light_n and_o counsel_n no_o nor_o only_o for_o doctrinal_a cannon_n or_o decree_n but_o also_o for_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n that_o synodrion_n be_v their_o supreme_a court_n to_o who_o sentence_n they_o be_v all_o bind_v under_o pain_n of_o death_n to_o submit_v as_o be_v clear_a deut._n 17._o 11_o 12._o and_o therefore_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v which_o yet_o we_o do_v not_o see_v prove_v that_o synod_n may_v give_v out_o decree_n and_o doctrinal_a cannon_n that_o shall_v tie_v many_o church_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o our_o congregation_n shall_v therefore_o be_v dependent_a as_o be_v the_o jewish_a synagogue_n except_o it_o be_v also_o prove_v that_o they_o must_v depend_v upon_o synod_n in_o point_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n as_o well_o as_o in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n yea_o and_o so_o depend_v as_o that_o the_o sentence_n of_o those_o synod_n must_v be_v obey_v under_o pain_n of_o death_n sure_o the_o synagogue_n and_o every_o member_n of_o they_o be_v in_o this_o sort_n dependent_a upon_o the_o supreme_a synedrion_fw-mi but_o we_o hope_v 〈◊〉_d reverend_a brother_n will_v not_o say_v that_o congregation_n must_v in_o this_o sort_n be_v dependent_a upon_o synod_n at_o the_o least_o wise_a this_o we_o hope_v he_o will_v not_o deny_v that_o every_o member_n of_o a_o church_n be_v bind_v to_o depend_v upon_o the_o pastor_n of_o that_o church_n in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n and_o yet_o it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o he_o must_v depend_v upon_o one_o pastor_n alone_o in_o point_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o doctrine_n may_v be_v dispense_v by_o one_o pastor_n alone_o but_o discipline_n must_v be_v dispense_v by_o a_o church_n which_o one_o pastor_n alone_o can_v be_v and_o therefore_o if_o congregation_n be_v to_o be_v dependent_a upon_o synod_n in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o they_o must_v be_v dependent_a in_o point_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n three_o say_v he_o it_o be_v a_o beg_n of_o the_o question_n to_o make_v jerusalem_n the_o supreme_a church_n and_o the_o synagogue_n dependent_a church_n because_o it_o it_o be_v lawful_a only_o at_o jerusalem_n to_o sacrifice_n for_o i_o hold_v that_o jerusalem_n be_v a_o dependent_a church_n no_o less_o than_o the_o small_a synagogue_n in_o all_o their_o trybe_n and_o so_o he_o proceed_v large_o to_o show_v that_o sacrifice_a at_o jerusalem_n do_v not_o make_v jerusalem_n supreme_a answ_n it_o this_o be_v even_o so_o as_o be_v plead_v yet_o that_o which_o we_o have_v say_v of_o the_o completeness_n of_o the_o synagogue_n and_o of_o their_o dependency_n be_v not_o at_o all_o remove_v thereby_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o we_o do_v not_o make_v the_o synagogue_n dependent_a nor_o jerusalem_n supreme_a mere_o upon_o this_o ground_n because_o jerusalem_n alone_o be_v the_o place_n of_o sacrifice_v but_o this_o be_v the_o ground_n upon_o which_o chief_o we_o go_v that_o at_o jerusalem_n be_v the_o synedrion_fw-mi upon_o who_o all_o israel_n must_v depend_v for_o judgement_n and_o from_o who_o sentence_n there_o be_v no_o appeal_n which_o ground_n we_o still_o think_v do_v prove_v both_o the_o incomplearnesse_n of_o the_o synagogue_n and_o the_o supremacy_n of_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi and_o the_o contrary_a to_o this_o must_v be_v clear_v if_o our_o tenent_n in_o this_o matter_n be_v remove_v true_a it_o be_v we_o think_v it_o some_o argument_n of_o the_o synagogue_n incompleatnesse_n and_o imperfection_n that_o they_o be_v not_o permit_v to_o enjoy_v all_o the_o ordinance_n which_o be_v of_o ordinary_a use_n but_o the_o supremacy_n of_o jerusalem_n we_o do_v not_o place_n in_o this_o only_a that_o there_o be_v the_o place_n for_o sacrifice_n but_o in_o this_o withal_o that_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a be_v there_o upon_o which_o all_o israel_n must_v depend_v and_o from_o the_o which_o there_o must_v be_v no_o appeal_n and_o yet_o this_o supremacy_n we_o do_v not_o place_n in_o jerusalem_n consider_v a_o part_n from_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi but_o in_o the_o synedrion_n itself_o and_o therefore_o whereas_o he_o say_v pag._n 415._o that_o we_o may_v as_o well_o conclude_v that_o all_o the_o city_n and_o incorporation_n of_o england_n be_v dependent_a upon_o london_n inasmuch_o as_o the_o parliament_n use_v there_o to_o sit_v i_o conceive_v the_o comparison_n do_v not_o suit_n because_o as_o we_o do_v not_o place_v the_o supremacy_n in_o london_n or_o in_o westminster_n consider_v apart_o from_o the_o parliament_n but_o in_o the_o parliament_n which_o use_v
even_o as_o a_o king_n ignorant_a of_o necessary_a civil_a duty_n can_v command_v they_o not_o because_o he_o want_v kingly_a power_n to_o command_v these_o civil_a thing_n for_o undeniable_o he_o be_v a_o judge_n in_o civil_a thing_n but_o because_o he_o have_v not_o knowledge_n of_o they_o and_o may_v we_o not_o say_v in_o like_a sort_n though_o a_o church_n want_v the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o truth_n in_o some_o particular_a question_n yet_o they_o have_v a_o church_n power_n to_o determine_v such_o question_n &_o to_o command_v obedience_n therein_o and_o it_o be_v by_o accident_n they_o can_v in_o that_o state_n determine_v right_o because_o they_o will_v not_o be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n therein_o not_o because_o they_o want_v church-power_n to_o determine_v such_o matter_n but_o because_o they_o have_v not_o the_o knowledge_n of_o they_o again_o a_o little_a after_o in_o the_o same_o p._n he_o tell_v we_o that_o christianity_n add_v no_o new_a fatherly_a power_n to_o a_o father_n over_o his_o child_n nor_o give_v a_o new_a husband_n right_a to_o the_o husband_n once_o a_o heathen_a over_o his_o wife_n for_o a_o heathen_a father_n be_v as_o essential_o a_o father_n over_o his_o child_n as_o a_o christian_a father_n and_o a_o heathen_a husband_n a_o heathen_a master_n etc._n etc._n be_v all_o as_o essential_o husband_n master_n etc._n etc._n as_o be_v the_o christian_a husband_n master_n etc._n etc._n and_o may_v we_o not_o as_o well_o say_v soundness_n of_o knowledge_n in_o such_o or_o such_o a_o particular_a question_n add_v no_o new_a church_n power_n to_o a_o christian_a church_n over_o their_o own_o member_n nor_o give_v a_o new_a church_n right_a over_o they_o which_o they_o have_v not_o before_o for_o a_o church_n that_o want_v such_o knowledge_n be_v as_o essential_o a_o church_n invest_v with_o church_n power_n over_o her_o member_n as_o be_v another_o church_n for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v the_o case_n be_v alike_o and_o if_o soundness_n of_o knowledge_n do_v not_o give_v to_o a_o church_n their_o church-right_a in_o this_o or_o that_o question_n how_o can_v want_v of_o that_o knowledge_n deprive_v they_o of_o that_o right_a sure_o one_o will_v think_v the_o whole_a substance_n of_o christianity_n may_v do_v as_o much_o for_o the_o add_v of_o kingly_a right_n fatherly_a right_n husband_n right_a etc._n etc._n as_o soundness_n of_o knowledge_n in_o some_o one_o particular_a question_n for_o the_o add_v of_o church_n right_a &_o that_o the_o want_n of_o all_o christianity_n shall_v be_v as_o available_a for_o take_v away_o the_o kingly_a right_n the_o fatherly_a right_n etc._n etc._n as_o the_o want_n of_o knowledge_n in_o one_o particular_a point_n for_o the_o take_z away_o of_o church-right_a and_o since_o we_o have_v our_o brother_n own_o testimony_n clear_a and_o full_a for_o the_o one_o it_o seem_v to_o i_o the_o case_n be_v so_o parallel_a and_o proportionable_a that_o the_o other_o be_v unavoidable_a i_o mean_v thus_o since_o in_o the_o one_o case_n the_o whole_a substance_n of_o christianity_n do_v not_o give_v power_n nor_o the_o want_n thereof_o take_v away_o the_o same_o by_o our_o brother_n own_o teach_n i_o know_v not_o how_o in_o the_o other_o case_n soundness_n of_o knowledge_n in_o one_o particular_a question_n shall_v give_v power_n or_o right_n &_o want_v of_o such_o knowledge_n take_v away_o the_o same_o and_o so_o for_o antioch_n in_o particular_a if_o it_o be_v as_o our_o brother_n suppose_v that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o they_o do_v hold_v against_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o question_n about_o circumcision_n i_o see_v not_o how_o this_o can_v deprive_v they_o of_o their_o church_n right_a which_o they_o have_v before_o as_o for_o our_o brother_n reason_n that_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o ecclesiastical_a right_n and_o power_n to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n but_o only_o for_o the_o truth_n this_o say_n i_o confess_v be_v very_o true_a but_o do_v not_o suffice_v for_o the_o purpose_n for_o which_o he_o bring_v it_o viz._n to_o prove_v that_o antioch_n be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o question_n about_o circumcision_n or_o hold_v against_o the_o truth_n therein_o do_v thereby_o lose_v their_o church_n right_a to_o determine_v for_o if_o this_o reason_n be_v good_a than_o a_o man_n may_v conclude_v against_o that_o power_n in_o heathen_a king_n parent_n and_o husband_n to_o govern_v their_o subject_n child_n and_o wife_n which_o our_o brother_n as_o we_o hear_v afore_o have_v grant_v and_o teach_v for_o suppose_v that_o antioch_n be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o particular_a be_v it_o not_o clear_a that_o the_o king_n parent_n and_o husband_n mention_v be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n in_o many_o more_o matter_n and_o it_o antioch_n do_v hereupon_o loose_v their_o right_n because_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o power_n to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n but_o for_o the_o truth_n how_o will_v it_o be_v avoid_v but_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n â—he_v king_n and_o the_o other_o mention_a must_v likewise_o lose_v their_o right_n to_o govern_v their_o own_o subject_n and_o family_n for_o the_o lord_n give_v no_o right_a i_o hope_v to_o pagan_n against_o the_o truth_n no_o more_o than_o he_o do_v unto_o church_n and_o therefore_o if_o the_o reason_n be_v valid_a and_o strong_a in_o the_o one_o case_n and_o for_o the_o purpose_n for_o which_o our_o brother_n bring_v it_o it_o seem_v to_o be_v as_o strong_a in_o the_o other_o case_n also_o which_o shall_v be_v contrary_a to_o what_o our_o brother_n himself_o do_v teach_v in_o a_o word_n churches_n and_o antioch_n in_o particular_a have_v right_a to_o determine_v question_n and_o they_o ought_v to_o determine_v only_o according_a to_o the_o truth_n they_o have_v formal_o a_o right_a to_o determine_v and_o when_o their_o determination_n be_v according_a to_o truth_n than_o they_o will_v â—ind_v vi_o matâ—â—iâ—_n which_o else_o they_o will_v not_o they_o have_v right_a to_o determine_v in_o fore_n humano_fw-la and_o if_o their_o determination_n be_v for_o matter_n agreeable_a to_o truth_n they_o will_v be_v ratify_v in_o foro_fw-la diuâ—â—o_fw-la but_o not_o else_o now_o our_o brother_n argue_v do_v seem_v to_o confound_v these_o two_o and_o because_o of_o the_o latter_a which_o be_v free_o grant_v he_o will_v conclude_v against_o the_o former_a which_o we_o think_v be_v not_o good_a reason_n but_o on_o the_o contrary_n do_v still_o think_v that_o though_o church_n ought_v to_o give_v out_o no_o determination_n but_o such_o as_o be_v agreeable_a to_o truth_n and_o that_o otherwise_o their_o determination_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o matter_n of_o they_o will_v not_o bind_v before_o god_n yet_o for_o all_o this_o they_o may_v have_v right_a formal_o and_o in_o foro_n humano_fw-la to_o judge_n and_o to_o determine_v of_o such_o thing_n moreover_o if_o this_o be_v grant_v for_o true_a that_o antioch_n when_o they_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n do_v lose_v their_o right_n to_o determine_v controversy_n yet_o we_o be_v not_o hereby_o much_o near_o to_o a_o issue_n unless_o it_o be_v determine_v withal_o who_o must_v be_v judge_n whether_o they_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n or_o no_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o if_o they_o be_v not_o against_o the_o truth_n but_o for_o it_o than_o i_o hope_v it_o will_v be_v grant_v that_o they_o do_v not_o lose_v their_o right_n at_o all_o the_o question_n therefore_o still_o remain_v who_o have_v this_o ministerial_a power_n to_o judge_n whether_o this_o or_o that_o church_n antioch_n or_o any_o other_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n or_o for_o it_o and_o unless_o this_o be_v clear_v we_o be_v but_o where_o we_o be_v before_o but_o to_o draw_v towards_o a_o end_n of_o this_o passage_n about_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n whether_o they_o have_v right_a to_o determine_v controversy_n when_o ability_n fail_v or_o whether_o they_o do_v when_o lose_v that_o right_n i_o will_v here_o transcribe_v a_o few_o word_n of_o our_o brother_n as_o i_o find_v they_o in_o his_o second_o 331._o page_n wherein_o he_o either_o clear_o yield_v the_o cause_n and_o say_v the_o same_o that_o we_o do_v or_o i_o be_o much_o mistake_v the_o word_n be_v these_o there_o be_v a_o difference_n between_o ability_n to_o judge_v and_o right_a or_o power_n to_o judge_v a_o presbyterial_a church_n and_o he_o dispute_v in_o six_o page_n together_o to_o prove_v antioch_n such_o a_o one_o page_n 470._o 471._o etc._n etc._n sequ_o may_v have_v right_a jus_o and_o ecclesiastical_a law_n to_o judge_v of_o a_o point_n to_o the_o judge_v whereof_o they_o want_v ability_n therefore_o de_fw-la facto_fw-la it_o belong_v to_o a_o high_a synod_n where_o more_o learned_a man_n be_v though_o the_o jure_v the_o presbytery_n may_v judge_v it_o these_o word_n i_o wish_v to_o be_v well_o consider_v for_o
whereas_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v be_v speak_v of_o he_o say_v antioch_n the_o great_a part_n of_o they_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n do_v lose_v their_o jus_o their_o right_n to_o determine_v for_o which_o as_o we_o have_v hear_v he_o give_v this_o reason_n because_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o right_a and_o power_n to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n but_o for_o it_o yet_o now_o we_o see_v he_o grant_v distinction_n between_o ability_n and_o right_n and_o say_v a_o presbyterial_a church_n may_v still_o retain_v this_o latter_a of_o their_o right_n even_o then_o when_o they_o want_v the_o other_o of_o ability_n which_o two_o saying_n whether_o they_o do_v perfect_o agree_v and_o whether_o in_o the_o latter_a of_o they_o he_o do_v not_o plain_o come_v up_o to_o we_o against_o who_o he_o have_v be_v dispute_v in_o the_o former_a i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o wise_a in_o heart_n and_o especial_o to_o himself_o to_o consider_v for_o for_o my_o part_n i_o must_v confess_v that_o these_o two_o say_n a_o presbyterial_a church_n as_o antioch_n may_v have_v right_a jus_o to_o judge_v a_o point_n to_o the_o judge_v whereof_o they_o may_v want_v ability_n and_o antioch_n a_o presbyterial_a church_n want_v ability_n do_v thereby_o lose_v their_o right_n or_o jus_o to_o determine_v the_o point_n these_o two_o i_o say_v be_v such_o say_n as_o be_v not_o easy_a for_o i_o to_o reconcile_v last_o if_o it_o be_v say_v our_o brother_n do_v not_o deny_v unto_o antioch_n or_o a_o church_n in_o error_n all_o power_n simple_o to_o determine_v but_o only_o to_o determine_v tali_fw-la mode_n that_o be_v to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n for_o his_o word_n be_v they_o lose_v their_o jus_o their_o right_a eatenus_fw-la in_o so_o far_o i_o answer_v he_o have_v such_o a_o word_n indeed_o as_o eatenus_fw-la in_o so_o far_o but_o if_o any_o shall_v say_v he_o mean_v no_o more_o in_o this_o dispute_n but_o only_o that_o such_o a_o church_n have_v no_o right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n i_o conceive_v that_o he_o that_o shall_v so_o say_v shall_v therein_o impute_v some_o fault_n unto_o our_o brother_n even_o the_o fault_n of_o wrest_a mr._n tompsons_n tenent_n and_o i_o and_o suggest_v against_o we_o unto_o his_o reader_n as_o if_o we_o have_v hold_v such_o a_o thing_n as_o we_o never_o write_v nor_o think_v for_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o our_o brother_n in_o his_o pag._n 424._o be_v dispute_v against_o we_o for_o he_o say_v that_o we_o teach_v the_o church_n of_o antioch_n have_v jus_o power_n to_o judge_n and_o determine_v the_o controversy_n but_o because_o of_o the_o difficulty_n have_v not_o light_a to_o judge_v thereof_o and_o set_v down_o master_n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o as_o the_o man_n that_o so_o teach_v in_o answer_n page_n 42._o and_o a_o few_o line_n after_o he_o say_v i_o think_v the_o brethren_n err_v in_o this_o to_o teach_v that_o antioch_n have_v power_n to_o determine_v the_o controversy_n act._n 15._o and_o then_o he_o give_v two_o reason_n for_o the_o contrary_n so_o that_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o he_o intend_v this_o dispute_n against_o we_o now_o what_o have_v we_o say_v in_o this_o matter_n have_v we_o deliver_v any_o such_o thing_n that_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n let_v the_o answer_n be_v view_v in_o the_o place_n which_o he_o allege_v viz._n page_n 42._o and_o i_o be_o sure_a no_o such_o gross_a tenent_n will_v be_v there_o find_v no_o nor_o any_o where_o else_o in_o our_o writing_n that_o which_o we_o have_v say_v be_v this_o that_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o have_v determine_v the_o matter_n if_o ability_n have_v serve_v thereto_o but_o for_o right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n we_o never_o speak_v one_o word_n that_o sound_v that_o way_n our_o brother_n therefore_o intend_v this_o dispute_n against_o we_o and_o plain_o express_v so_o much_o and_o our_o tenent_n be_v no_o other_o than_o as_o i_o have_v say_v it_o must_v therefore_o needs_o follow_v that_o his_o intendment_n be_v that_o antioch_n have_v no_o right_a to_o determine_v that_o matter_n but_o for_o right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n he_o can_v confute_v such_o a_o tenent_n as_o we_o we_o never_o have_v deliver_v any_o such_o thing_n but_o he_o must_v withal_o be_v culpable_a of_o manifest_a mistake_n and_o misreporting_a of_o we_o to_o the_o world_n and_o we_o be_v and_o must_v be_v slow_a to_o believe_v that_o a_o man_n of_o such_o worth_n will_v willing_o do_v we_o such_o wrong_n it_o remain_v therefore_o that_o right_o to_o determine_v and_o not_o right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n be_v the_o thing_n which_o he_o opposite_a as_o we_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v that_o in_o this_o sense_n and_o meaning_n i_o have_v here_o apply_v my_o answer_n the_o 〈…〉_z thus_o much_o that_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o 〈…〉_z that_o may_v soon_o be_v confute_v but_o the_o tenent_n be_v none_o of_o we_o that_o 〈…〉_z to_o determine_v be_v indeed_o our_o tenent_n and_o whether_o this_o be_v confute_v 〈…〉_z let_v the_o wise_a and_o judicious_a consider_v chap._n ix_o whether_o the_o congregationall_a way_n or_o the_o presbyterial_a do_v make_v the_o gospel_n more_o difficultive_a than_o the_o law_n of_o excommunication_n by_o a_o church_n that_o have_v only_o three_o elder_n and_o of_o do_v thing_n sudden_o in_o the_o latter_a end_n of_o his_o page_n 424_o meaning_n mr_n tâ—mpson_n and_o i_o and_o allege_v page_n 17_o 18._o of_o the_o answer_n he_o write_v that_o we_o say_v our_o opposite_n do_v much_o judaize_v in_o that_o they_o multiply_v appeal_n upon_o appeal_n from_o a_o congregation_n to_o a_o classis_fw-la then_o to_o a_o synod_n then_o to_o a_o national_n assembly_n then_o to_o a_o oecâ—â—â—â—nicke_a council_n and_o this_o way_n while_o the_o world_n endure_v cause_n be_v never_o determine_v and_o synod_n can_v always_o be_v have_v even_o as_o in_o jerusalem_n the_o supreme_a judicature_n be_v far_o remote_a from_o all_o proselyte_n as_o from_o the_o eunuch_n of_o ethiopia_n act._n 8._o and_o from_o the_o remote_o part_n of_o the_o holy_a land_n but_o god_n have_v provide_v better_a for_o we_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n where_o every_o congregation_n which_o be_v at_o hand_n may_v decide_v the_o controversy_n and_o then_o page_z 425._o he_o subjoin_v his_o answer_n answ_n though_o i_o deny_v not_o but_o some_o of_o the_o thing_n here_o allege_v be_v write_v by_o we_o in_o the_o paâ—â—â—_n name_v yet_o that_o they_o be_v write_v for_o the_o purpose_n which_o our_o brother_n express_v viz._n to_o show_v that_o our_o brethren_n of_o the_o opposite_a judgement_n do_v much_o judaize_v that_o i_o do_v utter_o deny_v for_o the_o place_n be_v view_v will_v plain_o witness_v that_o we_o bring_v the_o thing_n allege_v for_o another_o end_n viz._n to_o show_v whether_o the_o way_n that_o be_v call_v independency_n do_v make_v the_o people_n as_o some_o have_v think_v of_o it_o more_o defective_a and_o improvident_a than_o their_o law_n for_o this_o be_v object_v against_o that_o way_n we_o in_o answer_n thereto_o do_v show_v by_o sundry_a particular_n that_o it_o be_v not_o that_o way_n that_o be_v just_o culpable_a in_o this_o respect_n but_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n of_o the_o other_o judgement_n one_o way_n on_o the_o one_o side_n make_v the_o state_n of_o christian_n in_o these_o day_n in_o some_o thing_n equal_a to_o the_o jew_n and_o in_o other_o thing_n more_o excellent_a and_o on_o the_o other_o side_n the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n make_v our_o condition_n in_o many_o thing_n more_o defective_a than_o be_v the_o condition_n of_o the_o jew_n so_o that_o not_o judayze_a but_o make_v our_o condition_n more_o defective_a than_o the_o jew_n be_v the_o thing_n which_o we_o here_o note_v in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o our_o brethren_n nor_o do_v i_o see_v how_o our_o brother_n in_o his_o answer_n do_v free_a their_o doctrine_n and_o way_n from_o be_v just_o culpable_a in_o this_o respect_n if_o we_o have_v intend_v the_o thing_n which_o he_o report_v we_o will_v never_o have_v use_v such_o a_o reason_n as_o he_o true_o report_v we_o to_o use_v viz._n that_o by_o appeal_n upon_o appeal_n cause_n according_a to_o our_o brethren_n way_n may_v be_v so_o protract_v as_o never_o to_o be_v determine_v nor_o end_v for_o this_o reason_n have_v neither_o strength_n nor_o colour_n of_o strength_n for_o such_o a_o purpose_n as_o he_o say_v we_o bring_v it_o for_o inasmuch_o as_o it_o be_v well_o know_v that_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cause_n among_o they_o and_o therefore_o to_o say_v that_o our_o brethren_n do_v judaize_v and_o then_o to_o give_v that_o for_o a_o
first_o for_o the_o performance_n of_o these_o thing_n mention_v be_v as_o compleâ—t_v in_o he_o notwithstanding_o this_o addition_n as_o it_o be_v before_o and_o not_o any_o whit_n abate_v nor_o impair_v thereby_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o matter_n of_o order_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o pastor_n may_v be_v sufficient_o and_o complete_o perform_v by_o one_o pastor_n single_o which_o act_v of_o jurisdiction_n can_v mr._n rutherford_n his_o own_o word_n in_o this_o case_n be_v these_o viz._n a_o single_a pastor_n may_v ministerial_o give_v out_o commandment_n in_o the_o authority_n of_o christ_n but_o he_o can_v himself_o censure_n or_o excommunicate_v the_o contravener_n of_o those_o commandment_n due_a right_n page_n 387._o and_o again_o page_n 387_o 388_o it_o be_v proper_a be_v act_n of_o jurisdiction_n ecclesiastical_a that_o they_o can_v be_v exercise_v by_o one_o alone_a but_o must_v be_v exercise_v by_o a_o society_n but_o a_o pastor_n as_o a_o pastor_n himself_o alone_o without_o any_o collateral_o join_v with_o he_o exercise_v his_o pastoral_n act_n of_o preach_v and_o administer_a the_o sacrament_n now_o if_o a_o pastor_n as_o a_o pastor_n himself_o alone_o without_o any_o collatteral_o join_v with_o he_o may_v thus_o exercise_v his_o pastoral_n act_n than_o indeed_o the_o access_n or_o addition_n of_o other_o pastor_n be_v not_o at_o all_o destructive_a of_o his_o pastoral_a power_n but_o he_o still_o retain_v the_o same_o as_o complete_a and_o perfect_a as_o before_o because_o he_o do_v these_o act_n as_o a_o pastor_n and_o remain_v a_o pastor_n still_o but_o how_o this_o example_n and_o instance_n can_v any_o thing_n further_o mr._n ruthâ—rford_n his_o purpose_n i_o do_v not_o understand_v for_o his_o intention_n be_v to_o make_v good_a that_o a_o congregation_n may_v have_v entire_a power_n when_o it_o be_v alone_o aâ—d_v yet_o not_o so_o when_o other_o congregation_n do_v arise_v and_o for_o the_o consume_n of_o this_o he_o bring_v this_o instance_n and_o example_n from_o a_o pastor_n that_o have_v a_o pastoral_a power_n afore_o other_o pastor_n be_v add_v who_o by_o the_o addition_n of_o other_o have_v no_o less_o power_n than_o afore_o which_o example_n i_o conceive_v rather_o make_v against_o he_o then_o for_o he_o for_o say_v he_o page_z 456._o their_o pastoral_a power_n add_v to_o he_o be_v cumulative_a and_o auxiliary_a but_o not_o privative_a or_o destructive_a of_o his_o pastoral_a power_n and_o therefore_o that_o the_o first_o pastor_n suffer_v loss_n by_o the_o addition_n of_o these_o three_o to_o he_o who_o say_v he_o will_v say_v this_o answ_n i_o know_v none_o that_o will_v say_v it_o but_o if_o their_o power_n be_v cumulative_a and_o auxiliary_a to_o his_o pastoral_a power_n and_o no_o way_n privative_a or_o destructive_a thereof_o then_o what_o power_n he_o have_v afore_o they_o be_v add_v the_o same_o he_o have_v still_o in_o as_o great_a measure_n as_o former_o and_o so_o his_o pastoral_n act_n be_v as_o perfect_v and_o valid_a as_o they_o be_v before_o now_o let_v the_o same_o be_v grant_v to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n congregation_n add_v and_o we_o have_v what_o we_o demand_v and_o if_o this_o be_v not_o grant_v then_o though_o the_o power_n of_o those_o other_o pastor_n be_v cumulative_a and_o auxiliary_a to_o the_o other_o pastor_n yet_o the_o power_n of_o those_o other_o congregation_n seem_v not_o so_o to_o the_o former_a congregation_n but_o rather_o privative_a or_o destructive_a of_o its_o power_n and_o then_o how_o can_v this_o example_n confirm_v our_o brother_n purpose_n or_o how_o can_v it_o be_v avoid_v but_o the_o example_n which_o he_o produce_v do_v make_v against_o himself_o sure_o if_o the_o power_n of_o these_o other_o pastor_n be_v not_o destructive_a to_o the_o former_a pastor_n power_n but_o auxiliary_a thereto_o so_o that_o what_o power_n he_o have_v before_o the_o same_o he_o retain_v still_o and_o in_o the_o same_o measure_n than_o it_o must_v be_v so_o likewise_o in_o a_o congregation_n when_o neighbour_n congregation_n be_v add_v or_o else_o this_o example_n will_v not_o suit_n but_o make_v the_o example_n to_o agree_v and_o our_o cause_n be_v advantage_v thereby_o our_o brethren_n do_v conceive_v the_o power_n of_o congregation_n in_o its_o kind_n and_o essence_n to_o be_v monarchical_a so_o as_o if_o any_o power_n from_o consociate_v congregation_n be_v add_v thereunto_o the_o congregation_n power_n monarchical_a be_v diminish_v and_o the_o essence_n of_o it_o change_v answ_n the_o power_n of_o congregation_n we_o â—old_a to_o be_v ministerial_a as_o be_v delegated_a from_o christ_n jesus_n and_o to_o be_v exercise_v according_a to_o his_o appointment_n and_o in_o he_o alone_o and_o in_o no_o other_o do_v we_o place_v this_o monarchical_a power_n according_a to_o what_o the_o holy_a ghost_n witness_v that_o there_o be_v difference_n of_o administration_n but_o the_o same_o lord_n 1_o cor._n 12._o 5._o and_o though_o our_o brother_n be_v please_v to_o put_v this_o upon_o we_o that_o we_o conceive_v the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o be_v monarchical_a yet_o in_o truth_n the_o same_o be_v far_o from_o we_o nor_o do_v i_o think_v that_o so_o much_o as_o one_o of_o we_o can_v be_v name_v that_o at_o any_o time_n have_v so_o speak_v nor_o do_v such_o a_o thing_n follow_v from_o any_o thing_n deliver_v by_o we_o concern_v the_o power_n of_o congregation_n for_o as_o for_o that_o which_o here_o he_o intimate_v and_o elsewhere_o express_v more_o plain_o so_o that_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o congregation_n be_v close_o make_v void_a or_o destroy_v by_o that_o power_n which_o some_o ascribe_v unto_o class_n if_o this_o be_v hold_v by_o we_o do_v it_o thence_o follow_v that_o we_o hold_v the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o be_v monarchicalâ—â—_n it_o follow_v not_o at_o all_o for_o then_o by_o the_o like_a reason_n i_o can_v prove_v that_o himself_o dâ—th_v hold_v a_o power_n monarchical_a in_o the_o universal_a or_o provincial_n church_n for_o he_o express_o affirm_v page_n 337._o that_o the_o pope_n power_n destroy_v the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n universal_a and_o the_o prelate_n power_n destroy_v the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n whereof_o he_o be_v pretend_v pastor_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v he_o do_v not_o hold_v a_o monarchical_a power_n in_o the_o one_o church_n nor_o in_o the_o other_o nor_o in_o any_o church_n or_o church_n but_o in_o christ_n alone_o nor_o can_v the_o same_o be_v true_o conclude_v upon_o that_o which_o he_o affirm_v of_o destroy_v the_o power_n of_o church_n by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o pope_n and_o prelate_n and_o if_o not_o how_o then_o can_v any_o man_n conclude_v against_o we_o that_o we_o hold_v a_o monarchical_a power_n in_o congregation_n though_o we_o shall_v hold_v that_o the_o power_n of_o congregation_n be_v destroy_v or_o diminish_v by_o that_o power_n which_o some_o will_v give_v unto_o classesâ—_n if_o our_o prâ—mises_n will_v warrant_v he_o to_o fasten_v such_o a_o tenent_n upon_o we_o his_o own_o will_v give_v a_o warrant_n for_o the_o like_a against_o himself_o and_o if_o the_o ground_n be_v insufficient_a to_o bear_v such_o a_o conclusion_n against_o he_o as_o i_o confess_v it_o be_v i_o know_v no_o sufficient_a ground_n why_o the_o same_o shall_v be_v impute_v unto_o we_o complete_a and_o enâ—ire_a power_n to_o rule_v both_o the_o congregation_n and_o member_n of_o consociate_v church_n in_o so_o far_o as_o they_o do_v keep_v communion_n with_o that_o congregation_n and_o may_v either_o edify_v or_o scandalize_v they_o flow_v not_o immeaiate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o every_o congregation_n even_o in_o remote_a land_n not_o consociate_v with_o other_o that_o we_o never_o say_v answer_n indeed_o it_o be_v a_o absurd_a and_o gross_a say_n for_o any_o man_n to_o say_v that_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o remote_a island_n not_o consociate_v with_o other_o shall_v have_v power_n yea_o complete_a and_o entire_a power_n to_o rule_v the_o congregation_n and_o member_n of_o church_n consociate_v and_o that_o this_o shall_v flow_v immediate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o such_o a_o congregation_n but_o there_o be_v no_o need_n that_o our_o brother_n shall_v clear_v himself_o from_o this_o say_n for_o i_o know_v none_o that_o impute_v it_o to_o he_o nevertheless_o the_o say_n here_o â—â—joyned_v can_v be_v deny_v for_o they_o be_v his_o own_o verbâ—tiâ—â—_n first_o the_o ordinary_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n because_o of_o near_a vicinity_n and_o contiguity_n of_o member_n be_v give_v by_o jesus_n christ_n to_o one_o congregation_n in_o a_o isle_n because_o that_o church_n be_v a_o church_n proper_o so_o call_v it_o be_v a_o little_a city_n and_o a_o little_a kingdom_n of_o jesus_n christ_n have_v within_o itself_o power_n of_o the_o â—ord_n and_o sacrament_n
judge_n and_o party_n too_o in_o the_o cause_n there_o can_v be_v no_o ceremony_n or_o type_n in_o this_o next_o of_o all_o i_o allege_v the_o word_n of_o the_o same_o reverend_a author_n in_o his_o page_n 10_o which_o be_v also_o allege_a in_o the_o forementioned_a place_n of_o the_o answer_n where_o the_o word_n be_v these_o what_o if_o a_o brother_n offend_v not_o a_o particular_a brother_n but_o the_o whole_a congregation_n what_o if_o ten_o brethren_n offend_v the_o whole_a or_o part_n shall_v we_o think_v the_o offence_n fall_v not_o within_o our_o saviour_n reme_v or_o complaint_n or_o appeal_v here_o that_o the_o offend_a party_n be_v not_o against_o all_o equity_n the_o sole_a and_o final_a judge_n of_o the_o offence_n in_o which_o place_n we_o see_v it_o be_v plain_a yet_o this_o reverend_a author_n count_v it_o against_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n shall_v be_v judge_n and_o party_n too_o in_o the_o cause_n and_o that_o it_o be_v against_o all_o equity_n that_o the_o party_n offend_v shall_v be_v sole_a and_o final_a judge_n of_o the_o offence_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v marvellous_a that_o mr._n rutherford_n shall_v say_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v so_o teach_v yea_o it_o be_v the_o more_o marvellous_a inasmuch_o as_o both_o these_o place_n of_o mr._n herle_n be_v express_o mention_v in_o that_o very_a page_n of_o the_o answer_n which_o here_o mr._n rutherford_n be_v dispute_v against_o and_o therefore_o it_o he_o have_v not_o remember_v that_o himself_o have_v read_v the_o same_o in_o mr_n herle_v as_o like_o enough_o he_o have_v yet_o find_v the_o same_o allege_a by_o we_o in_o that_o scripture_n of_o ouâ—s_n it_o be_v marvel_v he_o will_v not_o turn_v to_o the_o place_n allege_v to_o search_v and_o see_v whether_o the_o thing_n be_v so_o or_o no_o afore_o he_o have_v deny_v the_o same_o whereas_o on_o the_o contrary_a whether_o he_o search_v or_o search_v not_o this_o we_o see_v that_o he_o roundly_o affirm_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v so_o teach_v to_o which_o saying_n i_o know_v not_o how_o to_o assent_v our_o eye_n have_v so_o plain_o see_v and_o read_v the_o direct_a contrary_n yea_o and_o further_o it_o be_v yet_o more_o marvellous_a that_o mr._n rutherford_n shall_v thus_o write_v consider_v not_o only_o what_o have_v be_v already_o say_v but_o also_o what_o himself_o have_v write_v elsewhere_o i_o will_v mention_v a_o few_o of_o his_o own_o say_n and_o then_o himself_o shall_v be_v â—udge_n whether_o the_o thing_n we_o have_v now_o in_o hand_n be_v by_o he_o advise_o and_o well_o speak_v in_o his_o peaceable_a plea_n page_n 218_o he_o have_v these_o word_n when_o the_o grecian_a church_n offend_v the_o hebrew_n church_n the_o hebrew_n church_n can_v complain_v to_o the_o grecian_a church_n for_o the_o law_n forbid_v the_o party_n to_o be_v judge_n and_o what_o law_n he_o mean_v may_v be_v perceive_v by_o his_o word_n in_o page_n 208._o of_o the_o same_o treatise_n where_o he_o say_v if_o one_o man_n be_v wrong_v and_o see_v truth_n suffer_v by_o partiality_n the_o law_n of_o nature_n will_v warrant_v he_o to_o appeal_v to_o a_o assembly_n where_o there_o be_v more_o light_n and_o great_a authority_n as_o the_o weak_a may_v fly_v to_o the_o strong_a now_o let_v himself_o be_v judge_n whether_o in_o these_o testimony_n compare_v he_o do_v not_o teach_v that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n that_o party_n shall_v be_v judgeâ—_n and_o that_o therefore_o man_n may_v appeal_v from_o they_o again_o those_o word_n page_n 27_o of_o the_o same_o book_n be_v so_o plain_a as_o that_o nothing_o can_v be_v more_o these_o word_n say_v he_o what_o soever_o you_o bind_v on_o earth_n etc._n etc._n must_v be_v mean_v only_o of_o the_o apostle_n and_o of_o the_o church_n verse_n 18._o yea_o and_o it_o must_v exclude_v peter_n and_o his_o offend_a brother_n suppose_v they_o be_v both_o believer_n because_o party_n by_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n and_o nation_n can_v be_v judge_n lasâ—ly_o those_o word_n be_v express_v in_o his_o due_a right_n of_o presbytery_n in_o his_o see_v â—nd_v p._n 338_o 339._o where_o he_o write_v thus_o if_o according_a to_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n and_o nation_n no_o man_n can_v be_v judge_n in_o his_o own_o cause_n then_o be_v appeal_n from_o the_o eldership_n of_o one_o congregation_n when_o they_o be_v a_o party_n to_o the_o cause_v person_n natural_a but_o the_o former_a be_v reason_n nature_n law_n of_o nation_n ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o latter_a in_o the_o assumption_n of_o which_o syllogism_n he_o plain_o affirm_v that_o it_o be_v reason_n nature_n and_o the_o law_n of_o nation_n that_o no_o man_n may_v be_v judge_n in_o his_o own_o cause_n and_o by_o all_o this_o i_o suppose_v tâ—_n be_v manifest_a that_o the_o thing_n which_o he_o say_v none_o of_o they_o do_v teach_v be_v express_o and_o plain_o teach_v by_o some_o of_o they_o and_o among_o other_o even_o by_o himself_o who_o therefore_o ought_v not_o to_o have_v deny_v the_o same_o nor_o can_v be_v clear_v from_o much_o forgetfulness_n in_o so_o do_v and_o if_o so_o great_a a_o oversight_n be_v find_v in_o he_o i_o hope_v himself_o may_v thereby_o be_v entreat_v to_o be_v tender_a of_o agravate_v matter_n against_o we_o or_o other_o at_o leastwise_o not_o so_o far_o to_o aggravate_v they_o as_o to_o impute_v unto_o we_o matter_n which_o we_o do_v not_o hold_v for_o a_o man_n own_o infirmity_n shall_v make_v he_o more_o equitable_a and_o favourable_a towards_o other_o and_o christian_a reader_n may_v be_v warn_v hereby_o not_o hasty_o to_o receive_v all_o that_o mr._n rutherford_n have_v write_v afore_o they_o have_v due_o examine_v and_o try_v the_o same_o whether_o the_o thing_n be_v so_o or_o not_o for_o we_o see_v through_o forgetfulness_n or_o otherwise_o he_o may_v great_o mistake_v himself_o and_o miss_v of_o the_o truth_n and_o give_v forth_o such_o say_n and_o expression_n for_o truth_n as_o be_v in_o no_o sort_n to_o be_v maintain_v but_o recall_v though_o nevertheless_o he_o be_v otherwise_o a_o man_n of_o great_a worth_n and_o so_o ever_o to_o be_v acknowledge_v we_o teach_v that_o it_o be_v not_o congruous_a to_o the_o wisdom_n of_o christ_n nor_o to_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o christ_n shall_v have_v appoint_v all_o the_o ordinary_a church_n court_v so_o many_o thousand_o congregation_n who_o may_v rather_o cry_v then_o extraordinary_a and_o high_a synod_n to_o be_v the_o only_a ordinary_a judge_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n answ_n these_o qualification_n and_o limitation_n of_o the_o matter_n of_o party_n be_v judge_n be_v such_o as_o to_o my_o remembrance_n i_o never_o hear_v give_v afore_o now_o now_o indeed_o it_o be_v say_v 1._o that_o all_o congregation_n be_v so_o many_o thousand_o 2._o may_v not_o be_v the_o only_a ordinary_a judge_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n but_o it_o will_v be_v against_o the_o wisdom_n of_o christ_n and_o light_n of_o nature_n if_o it_o shall_v so_o be_v yet_o former_o it_o be_v deliver_v absolute_o and_o simple_o that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n for_o party_n to_o be_v judge_n without_o any_o such_o modification_n and_o qualification_n as_o now_o mr._n rutherf_n give_v to_o help_v the_o matter_n withal_o nevertheless_o by_o qualify_a the_o thing_n in_o this_o sort_n it_o seem_v thereby_o to_o be_v still_o grant_v that_o though_o so_o many_o thousand_o congregation_n may_v not_o ordinary_o be_v judge_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n but_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n will_v be_v against_o it_o yet_o for_o some_o congregation_n and_o at_o some_o time_n the_o thing_n may_v be_v allow_v well_o enough_o else_o why_o be_v the_o thing_n deny_v only_o to_o so_o many_o congregation_n and_o ordinary_o if_o it_o be_v not_o thereby_o employ_v that_o some_o congregation_n and_o at_o some_o time_n may_v thus_o practice_v now_o hereupon_o the_o question_n grow_v whether_o some_o at_o some_o time_n may_v be_v allow_v to_o do_v contrary_a to_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n though_o all_o may_v not_o or_o whether_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n be_v change_v when_o there_o come_v to_o be_v many_o congregation_n and_o be_v not_o the_o same_o that_o it_o be_v before_o when_o there_o be_v no_o more_o congregation_n but_o one_o whether_o i_o say_v some_o new_a light_n of_o nature_n do_v arise_v with_o the_o rise_n of_o new_a congregation_n so_o that_o when_o they_o be_v many_o it_o will_v be_v against_o this_o light_n for_o they_o thus_o to_o be_v judge_n though_o it_o be_v not_o so_o when_o there_o be_v but_o one_o or_o whether_o we_o must_v say_v the_o light_n of_o nature_n remain_v in_o the_o same_o one_o congregation_n remain_v alone_o may_v be_v allow_v to_o do_v contrary_a thereto_o but_o
diocesan_n trial_n page_n 16._o then_o a_o must_v be_v grant_v that_o not_o only_o 3000_o but_o a_o great_a number_n even_o 50â—0_n at_o least_o may_v hear_v the_o word_n at_o once_o and_o if_o so_o then_o 5000_o member_n in_o the_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n will_v not_o prove_v plurality_n of_o congregation_n in_o one_o church_n forasmuch_o as_o here_o be_v 5000_o people_n and_o yet_o no_o more_o congregation_n but_o one_o but_o alas_o this_o be_v a_o great_a uncertainty_n for_o independent_a congregation_n but_o this_o be_v to_o be_v prove_v first_o that_o 8000_o mr._n mather_n have_v not_o add_v many_o other_o multitude_n mention_v act_v 5._o 14._o &_o 6._o 17._o do_v meet_v daily_o in_o the_o temple_n second_o daily_a or_o ordinary_o from_o house_n to_o house_n three_o to_o celebrate_v the_o lord_n supper_n daily_o in_o the_o temple_n and_o in_o every_o private_a house_n and_o there_o be_v need_n of_o many_o scaffold_n and_o gallery_n to_o sit_v at_o one_o table_n four_o to_o make_v one_o judicature_n etc._n etc._n answ_n he_o that_o shall_v look_v upon_o the_o answer_n page_n 34_o will_v plain_o see_v that_o i_o have_v here_o speak_v to_o both_o those_o place_n of_o act_n 5._o 14._o &_o 6_o 1._o show_v that_o neither_o of_o they_o do_v prove_v a_o plurality_n of_o congregation_n in_o this_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n but_o rather_o the_o contrary_n and_o therefore_o this_o parenthesis_n which_o do_v intimate_v that_o i_o have_v omit_v to_o speak_v to_o these_o place_n must_v not_o be_v assent_v to_o but_o deny_v but_o why_o must_v these_o four_o particular_n be_v prove_v i_o suppose_v he_o mean_v because_o of_o that_o which_o be_v say_v act._n 2_o 46._o they_o continue_v daily_o with_o one_o accord_n in_o the_o temple_n etc._n etc._n but_o this_o do_v not_o clear_v it_o that_o these_o four_o particular_n must_v needs_o be_v prove_v and_o the_o reason_n be_v first_o because_o judicature_n which_o be_v one_o of_o the_o particular_n be_v not_o mention_v at_o all_o in_o that_o scripture_n nor_o be_v it_o say_v by_o we_o that_o a_o daily_a exercise_n thereof_o be_v necessary_a in_o every_o church_n or_o in_o any_o second_o the_o lord_n supper_n which_o be_v another_o of_o the_o particular_n be_v not_o mention_v at_o all_o in_o that_o text_n at_o leastwise_o not_o in_o those_o word_n or_o term_n which_o mr._n rutherford_n set_v down_o much_o less_o be_v it_o say_v as_o he_o express_v it_o that_o they_o do_v daily_o celebrate_v the_o same_o both_o in_o the_o temple_n and_o in_o every_o private_a house_n nor_o can_v the_o same_o for_o aught_o i_o know_v be_v prove_v by_o this_o or_o by_o any_o other_o scripture_n nor_o be_v such_o a_o thing_n ever_o affirm_v by_o we_o so_o far_o as_o i_o know_v i_o suppose_v if_o they_o have_v celebrate_v it_o in_o the_o temple_n alone_o or_o in_o some_o private_a house_n or_o house_n alone_o that_o may_v have_v be_v sufficient_a without_o any_o necessity_n of_o celebrate_v the_o same_o in_o both_o place_n upon_o one_o day_n both_o in_o the_o temple_n and_o in_o the_o house_n too_o nay_o it_o be_v a_o question_n whether_o the_o lord_n supper_n be_v at_o all_o intend_a in_o this_o place_n though_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o they_o observe_v that_o ordinance_n and_o verse_n 42._o may_v possible_o teach_v so_o much_o but_o for_o the_o verse_n we_o be_v speak_v of_o viz_o verse_n 46_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n that_o the_o break_n of_o bread_n there_o speak_v of_o must_v needs_o be_v mean_v of_o that_o ordinance_n sure_o he_o be_v a_o judicious_a expositor_n who_o understand_v it_o otherwise_o quod_fw-la hic_fw-la fractionem_fw-la panis_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v whereas_o some_o expound_v break_v of_o bread_n in_o this_o place_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n it_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o be_v far_o from_o luke_n intention_n calvin_n in_o act._n 2._o 46._o so_o then_o of_o mr_n rutherford_n four_o particular_n which_o he_o say_v we_o must_v prove_v there_o be_v not_o past_o the_o half_a of_o they_o that_o need_v to_o be_v prove_v at_o all_o the_o two_o last_o be_v already_o remove_v and_o for_o a_o three_o which_o be_v of_o break_v of_o bread_n daily_o and_o ordinary_o from_o house_n to_o house_n understand_v this_o break_n of_o bread_n as_o calvin_n do_v of_o their_o civil_a repast_n and_o then_o it_o hurt_v not_o our_o cause_n at_o all_o though_o it_o be_v yield_v that_o they_o do_v daily_o meet_v for_o such_o purpose_n in_o several_a company_n in_o their_o private_a house_n for_o this_o they_o may_v do_v and_o be_v no_o more_o but_o one_o congregation_n there_o remain_v therefore_o only_o one_o that_o need_v to_o be_v prove_v namely_o the_o first_o that_o they_o do_v daily_o meet_v in_o the_o temple_n and_o this_o may_v be_v prove_v with_o case_n because_o the_o plain_a word_n of_o the_o text_n do_v affirm_v it_o they_o continue_v daily_o with_o one_o accord_n in_o the_o temple_n so_o that_o yet_o we_o have_v find_v nothing_o that_o prove_v jerusalem_n to_o be_v many_o congregation_n in_o one_o church_n nay_o i_o conceive_v that_o one_o of_o these_o four_o particular_n viz._n the_o first_o of_o their_o daily_a meeting_n in_o the_o temple_n do_v apparent_o show_v that_o how_o great_a soever_o the_o number_n be_v yet_o it_o be_v not_o exceed_v the_o proportion_n of_o one_o congregation_n which_o may_v come_v together_o in_o one_o place_n for_o the_o temple_n be_v but_o one_o in_o all_o the_o city_n i_o mean_v there_o be_v but_o only_o one_o individual_a temple_n and_o not_o many_o temple_n which_o if_o there_o have_v be_v then_o our_o brethren_n may_v possible_o have_v say_v that_o they_o meet_v distributive_o in_o sundry_a lesser_a company_n but_o be_v to_o many_o too_o meet_v all_o in_o one_o congregation_n for_o so_o they_o be_v wont_a to_o expound_v sundry_a other_o phrase_n use_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o declare_v their_o come_n together_o true_a say_v they_o they_o come_v together_o but_o how_o not_o collective_o all_o of_o they_o together_o in_o one_o place_n they_o be_v too_o many_o for_o that_o but_o they_o come_v together_o distributive_o some_o of_o they_o in_o one_o place_n and_o some_o in_o another_o and_o so_o they_o think_v they_o have_v answer_v sufficient_o but_o now_o to_o this_o of_o their_o meeting_n together_o in_o the_o temple_n they_o can_v answer_v so_o for_o then_o there_o shall_v have_v be_v sundry_a temple_n in_o which_o they_o may_v have_v meet_v distribute_v into_o sundry_a company_n but_o there_o be_v no_o more_o temple_n but_o one_o and_o the_o text_n affirm_v plain_o that_o they_o all_o meet_v with_o one_o accord_n in_o the_o temple_n it_o must_v needs_o be_v that_o they_o meet_v collective_o all_o of_o they_o together_o in_o one_o and_o the_o same_o place_n and_o hence_o it_o follow_v that_o they_o be_v not_o so_o many_o but_o still_o they_o may_v be_v one_o congregation_n as_o well_o as_o one_o church_n so_o that_o of_o the_o four_o particular_n which_o he_o say_v we_o must_v prove_v some_o we_o see_v need_v not_o to_o be_v prove_v at_o all_o and_o the_o first_o of_o they_o which_o we_o can_v prove_v with_o case_n do_v make_v much_o for_o the_o weaken_n of_o his_o cause_n and_o for_o the_o strengthen_n of_o we_o yea_o mr._n mather_n will_v have_v the_o whole_a contain_v as_o one_o independent_a congregation_n act._n 6._o 1_o 2_o 3_o 4._o and_o the_o many_o myriad_o or_o thousand_o of_o believe_a jew_n act_n 21._o 21_o 22_o 23._o to_o meet_v as_o one_o congregation_n answ_n when_o in_o the_o answer_n i_o speak_v of_o these_o place_n the_o word_n independent_a be_v not_o there_o use_v by_o i_o at_o all_o but_o only_o be_v here_o add_v by_o himself_o for_o what_o cause_n himself_o can_v best_o tell_v but_o for_o the_o matter_n i_o conceive_v the_o thing_n which_o i_o there_o deliver_v be_v clear_a from_o the_o text_n themselves_o that_o the_o multitude_n of_o those_o jew_n do_v assemble_v and_o come_v together_o in_o one_o place_n for_o as_o for_o one_o of_o the_o place_n act._n 6._o it_o be_v express_o there_o say_v that_o the_o apostle_n call_v the_o multitude_n together_o to_o propose_v unto_o they_o the_o choice_n of_o deacon_n verse_n 2_o and_o bid_v they_o look_v out_o from_o among_o themselves_o seven_o man_n qualify_v as_o the_o apostle_n do_v there_o describe_v verse_n 3_o whereupon_o it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o say_v please_v the_o whole_a multitude_n and_o they_o choose_v seven_o who_o be_v there_o name_v verse_n 5._o and_o present_v they_o unto_o the_o apostle_n that_o they_o may_v lay_v their_o hand_n on_o they_o verse_n 6._o which_o plain_o show_v that_o the_o who_o multitude_n how_o many_o soever_o they_o be_v yet_o be_v not_o so_o many_o but_o they_o may_v all_o assemble_v in_o one_o place_n to_o
one_o word_n of_o prophesy_v in_o divers_a assembly_n at_o the_o same_o time_n but_o that_o they_o be_v so_o to_o prophesy_v that_o all_o of_o they_o be_v to_o be_v hearer_n and_o learner_n as_o well_o as_o speaker_n which_o do_v plain_o imply_v that_o there_o must_v be_v many_o prophet_n in_o one_o assembly_n at_o once_o again_o upon_o verse_n â—9_n he_o have_v these_o word_n as_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o place_n quamvis_fw-la forte_fw-fr multi_fw-la suit_n in_o ecclesiae_fw-la vestra_fw-la prophetae_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v although_o perhaps_o there_o be_v many_o prophet_n in_o your_o church_n yet_o it_o will_v be_v sufficient_a if_o two_o or_o three_o do_v speak_v at_o one_o meeting_n and_o for_o other_o it_o shall_v be_v their_o duty_n to_o judge_v that_o be_v to_o say_v to_o examine_v and_o try_v whether_o these_o thing_n be_v true_a and_o sound_a which_o be_v speak_v by_o they_o that_o speak_v wherein_o he_o plain_o show_v his_o judgement_n to_o be_v that_o at_o one_o meeting_n they_o be_v to_o have_v many_o prophet_n present_a of_o who_o two_n or_o three_o only_o be_v to_o speak_v and_o the_o rest_n to_o try_v and_o examine_v what_o be_v speak_v and_o to_o the_o same_o purpose_n he_o speak_v upon_o verse_n 32._o which_o he_o count_v to_o be_v the_o same_o with_o that_o of_o judge_v verse_n 29._o further_o these_o word_n verse_n 23._o of_o the_o whole_a church_n come_v together_o into_o one_o place_n he_o expound_v thus_o alicujus_fw-la loci_fw-la totus_fw-la populus_fw-la fidelis_fw-la that_o be_v all_o the_o faithful_a or_o believe_a people_n of_o a_o place_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o mr._n rutherford_n who_o will_v not_o have_v the_o whole_a church_n to_o be_v the_o whole_a much_o people_n that_o believe_v final_o speak_v of_o those_o word_n verse_n 24._o if_o all_o prophecy_n he_o have_v these_o word_n nec_fw-la omnes_fw-la inteligit_fw-la absoluté_fw-fr etc._n etc._n that_o be_v the_o apostle_n understand_v not_o all_o absolute_o but_o to_o this_o sense_n to_o wit_n if_o all_o that_o speak_v in_o the_o assembly_n of_o the_o church_n do_v prophesy_v that_o be_v if_o prophet_n only_o do_v speak_v and_o they_o that_o have_v the_o gift_n of_o tongue_n do_v hold_v their_o peace_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o mr._n rutherford_n who_o understand_v the_o text_n so_o that_o they_o be_v all_o to_o prophesy_v at_o one_o time_n and_o because_o at_o one_o meeting_n there_o be_v but_o two_o or_o three_o to_o prophecy_n which_o two_o or_o three_o he_o think_v can_v not_o be_v all_o he_o will_v therefore_o have_v it_o that_o they_o be_v distribute_v into_o several_a assembly_n and_o so_o do_v prophesy_v all_o at_o once_o though_o only_o two_o or_o three_o at_o one_o meeting_n for_o which_o interpretation_n though_o he_o allege_v estius_n yet_o estius_n we_o see_v afford_v he_o no_o help_n at_o all_o whereupon_o i_o have_v marvel_v why_o estius_n shall_v be_v allege_v sometime_o think_v with_o myself_o whether_o his_o name_n may_v not_o be_v misprinted_n by_o the_o printer_n instead_o of_o some_o other_o man_n sometime_o think_v whether_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o memory_n may_v not_o fail_v he_o in_o this_o particular_a have_v read_v the_o thing_n in_o some_o other_o author_n and_o suppose_v it_o have_v be_v in_o estius_n but_o what_o ever_o may_v be_v the_o reason_n of_o this_o mistake_n he_o that_o shall_v examine_v estius_n will_v not_o find_v in_o he_o any_o help_n at_o all_o for_o mr._n rutherford_n cause_n in_o this_o particular_a but_o the_o contrary_n the_o text_n say_v express_o verse_n 29_o that_o at_o one_o time_n they_o prophesy_v but_o two_o or_o three_o answer_n this_o be_v a_o mistake_n also_o for_o the_o word_n be_v let_v the_o prophet_n speak_v two_o or_o three_o and_o let_v the_o other_o judge_n now_o let_v they_o do_v so_o do_v not_o show_v their_o practice_n but_o their_o duty_n not_o what_o they_o do_v but_o what_o they_o shall_v have_v do_v the_o text_n say_v if_o there_o be_v no_o interpreter_n let_v he_o that_o have_v a_o unknown_a tongue_n keep_v silence_n in_o the_o church_n verse_n 20._o and_o let_v your_o woman_n keep_v silence_n in_o the_o church_n verse_n 34._o now_o shall_v any_o man_n say_v that_o these_o text_n do_v express_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v the_o manner_n of_o their_o woman_n and_o of_o their_o man_n that_o have_v unknown_a tongue_n to_o keep_v silence_n i_o suppose_v no_o man_n can_v say_v it_o the_o word_n be_v not_o a_o report_n of_o what_o their_o practice_n be_v but_o a_o rule_n of_o direction_n to_o show_v they_o how_o they_o ought_v to_o practice_v and_o so_o we_o say_v of_o the_o case_n in_o hand_n but_o let_v it_o be_v suppose_v that_o it_o be_v not_o only_o their_o duty_n but_o also_o their_o practice_n to_o prophesy_v at_o one_o meet_v but_o only_o two_o or_o three_o what_o can_v master_n rutherford_n gain_v hereby_o his_o word_n follow_v do_v tell_v we_o where_o he_o say_v if_o two_o only_a prophesy_v at_o one_o assembly_n as_o this_o text_n will_v warrant_v clear_o answ_n not_o so_o the_o text_n allow_v three_o which_o be_v more_o than_o two_o only_a but_o go_v on_o and_o let_v we_o hear_v the_o consequence_n then_o how_o do_v this_o whole_a church_n consist_v of_o all_o the_o believer_n at_o corinth_n as_o be_v suppose_v by_o our_o brethren_n convince_v the_o infidel_n so_o as_o it_o may_v bear_v this_o sense_n he_o be_v convince_v of_o all_o he_o be_v judge_v of_o all_o can_v two_o prophet_n be_v all_o prophet_n answ_n though_o we_o suppose_v the_o whole_a church_n consist_v of_o all_o the_o believer_n at_o corinth_n yet_o that_o the_o whole_a church_n do_v convince_v the_o the_o infidel_n this_o we_o never_o say_v nor_o suppose_v at_o all_o for_o we_o suppose_v and_o so_o do_v still_o that_o he_o be_v to_o be_v convince_v only_o by_o the_o prophet_n beside_o who_o there_o be_v many_o other_o that_o be_v of_o the_o church_n but_o for_o his_o demand_n whether_o two_o prophet_n can_v be_v all_o prophet_n the_o answer_n be_v that_o though_o two_o be_v not_o all_o where_o there_o be_v more_o than_o two_o yet_o if_o there_o be_v no_o more_o there_o it_o be_v otherwise_o and_o so_o where_o there_o be_v but_o two_o or_o three_o that_o do_v prophecy_n at_o one_o meeting_n there_o he_o that_o be_v convince_v by_o those_o two_o or_o three_o may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v convince_v of_o all_o that_o be_v of_o all_o that_o do_v prophesy_v this_o sense_n of_o the_o place_n must_v needs_o be_v receive_v else_o how_o shall_v the_o apostle_n word_n be_v reconcile_v and_o stand_v together_o for_o as_o in_o one_o verse_n he_o require_v that_o the_o prophet_n speak_v two_o or_o three_o at_o one_o meeting_n and_o the_o rest_n to_o judge_n verse_n 29._o and_o in_o another_o verse_n affirm_v that_o the_o infidel_n in_o the_o case_n there_o propose_v be_v judge_v of_o all_o verse_n 24._o so_o he_o do_v not_o only_o suppose_v in_o the_o very_a same_o verse_n that_o they_o do_v all_o prophecy_n if_o all_o prophecy_n say_v he_o and_o there_o come_v in_o one_o that_o believe_v not_o etc._n etc._n but_o moreover_o in_o verse_n 31._o he_o express_o and_o plain_o allow_v they_o thus_o to_o prophesy_v you_o may_v all_o prophecy_n say_v he_o one_o by_o one_o that_o all_o may_v learn_v and_o all_o may_v be_v comfort_v which_o place_v compare_v do_v evince_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n here_o give_v and_o do_v plain_o show_v that_o what_o he_o say_v verse_n 24._o of_o the_o infidel_n be_v convince_v of_o all_o and_o judge_v of_o all_o may_v be_v true_o make_v good_a if_o he_o be_v convince_v of_o all_o and_o judge_v of_o all_o that_o prophesy_v at_o that_o meeting_n though_o their_o number_n that_o so_o prophesy_v be_v no_o more_o but_o two_o or_o three_o and_o therefore_o whereas_o he_o conclude_v sure_o for_o my_o part_n i_o think_v it_o must_v unavoidable_o be_v say_v that_o they_o prophesy_v distributive_o and_o in_o several_a congregation_n the_o answer_n be_v that_o this_o need_v not_o to_o be_v say_v at_o all_o but_o may_v be_v avoid_v with_o â—ase_n and_o the_o contrary_n may_v be_v safe_o hold_v to_o wit_n that_o they_o proâ—â—â—cied_v collective_o and_o in_o one_o congregation_n for_o first_o they_o do_v so_o prophesy_v that_o one_o that_o believe_v not_o and_o one_o unlearned_a might_n come_v in_o among_o they_o when_o they_o be_v prophesy_v and_o by_o that_o mean_n may_v be_v convince_v of_o all_o and_o judge_v of_o all_o verse_n 24._o which_o may_v well_o be_v do_v if_o they_o prophesy_v all_o in_o one_o congregation_n but_o otherwise_o it_o can_v not_o for_o as_o much_o as_o one_o unbeliever_n can_v not_o be_v present_a in_o several_a congregation_n at_o once_o second_o they_o be_v so_o to_o prophesy_v that_o the_o
prophet_n when_o they_o prophesy_v be_v to_o have_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o prophet_n to_o be_v 〈◊〉_d to_o hear_v and_o judge_n of_o that_o which_o be_v deliver_v let_v the_o prophet_n speak_v two_o or_o three_o and_o the_o rest_n judge_n verse_n 29._o and_o the_o spirit_n of_o the_o prophet_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o prophet_n verse_n 32._o the_o former_a of_o which_o say_n mr._n rutherford_n himself_o do_v understand_v of_o a_o college_n prophet_n have_v a_o power_n dogmatic_a of_o judge_v and_o censure_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o prophet_n deliver_v what_o they_o speak_v say_v he_o page_z 467._o be_v to_o be_v judge_v and_o put_v under_o censure_n for_o the_o whole_a college_n must_v judge_v for_o which_o he_o allege_v verse_n 29._o and_o a_o little_a after_o this_o be_v not_o a_o power_n of_o judge_v which_o every_o christian_a have_v for_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d say_v piscator_fw-la do_v relate_v to_o the_o prophet_n who_o be_v to_o judge_v but_o as_o â—_o take_v it_o a_o prophetical_a judge_n which_o may_v warrant_v the_o juridical_a power_n of_o a_o presbytery_n etc._n etc._n by_o all_o which_o it_o plain_o appear_v that_o when_o the_o prophet_n do_v prophesy_v the_o other_o prophet_n be_v to_o be_v present_a to_o hear_v and_o judge_v of_o the_o doctrine_n deliver_v and_o if_o so_o how_o can_v it_o be_v that_o they_o prophesy_v in_o several_a congregation_n at_o the_o same_o time_n for_o have_v it_o be_v so_o they_o can_v not_o have_v judge_v of_o one_o another_o doctrine_n which_o they_o can_v not_o hear_v be_v themselves_o at_o that_o time_n employ_v in_o speak_v in_o some_o other_o place_n and_o therefore_o it_o seem_v more_o likely_a that_o they_o meet_v in_o one_o congregation_n where_o they_o may_v all_o prophecy_n first_o one_o and_o then_o another_o some_o at_o one_o time_n and_o some_o at_o another_o and_o so_o all_o of_o they_o may_v also_o hear_v and_o learn_v and_o judge_v of_o the_o doctrine_n deliver_v by_o other_o chap._n xv._n whether_o the_o church_n at_o ephesus_n be_v more_o in_o number_n then_o corinth_n and_o jerusalem_n and_o the_o judgement_n of_o mr._n baynes_n whether_o that_o church_n be_v many_o congregation_n or_o one_o only_o pag_n 470._o have_v suggest_v sundry_a thing_n to_o prove_v that_o ephesus_n be_v many_o congregation_n and_o yet_o but_o one_o church_n he_o conclude_v this_o viz._n upon_o these_o consideration_n i_o leave_v to_o our_o reverend_a brethren_n their_o judgement_n if_o mr._n mather_n and_o mr._n thompson_n say_v right_a we_o do_v not_o think_v they_o be_v more_o in_o number_n at_o ephesus_n then_o in_o corinth_n and_o jerusalem_n where_o the_o christian_n meet_v all_o in_o one_o place_n answ_n the_o exception_n then_o which_o in_o this_o place_n be_v take_v against_o mr._n thompson_n and_o i_o be_v for_o this_o that_o we_o do_v not_o think_v the_o christian_n at_o ephesus_n to_o be_v more_o in_o number_n then_o at_o jerusalem_n and_o corinth_n concern_v which_o i_o will_v not_o say_v much_o but_o only_o this_o that_o as_o we_o have_v only_o deliver_v what_o we_o think_v in_o this_o matter_n without_o determine_v or_o assert_v any_o thing_n peremptory_o so_o we_o shall_v ready_o embrace_v the_o contrary_a when_o good_a ground_n shall_v be_v show_v for_o the_o same_o which_o though_o we_o do_v not_o yet_o perceive_v to_o be_v perform_v in_o all_o that_o mr._n rutherford_n have_v say_v yet_o i_o will_v not_o here_o spend_v time_n in_o examine_v the_o same_o because_o i_o do_v not_o count_v this_o point_n of_o so_o much_o importance_n concern_v the_o principal_a thing_n in_o question_n for_o whether_o the_o church_n at_o ephesus_n be_v more_o in_o number_n then_o corinth_n and_o jerusalem_n or_o whether_o it_o be_v otherwise_o there_o be_v no_o great_a matter_n in_o this_o as_o touch_v the_o main_a question_n for_o if_o all_o of_o they_o be_v such_o church_n as_o may_v usual_o meet_v together_o in_o one_o congregation_n as_o i_o conceive_v they_o be_v it_o matter_n not_o much_o which_o of_o they_o be_v most_o in_o number_n but_o do_v not_o m._n rutherford_n prove_v that_o the_o one_o church_n at_o ephesus_n be_v more_o than_o one_o congregation_n i_o confess_v he_o have_v sundry_a thing_n in_o the_o precedent_a page_n which_o he_o intend_v that_o way_n but_o in_o asmuch_o as_o they_o do_v not_o concern_v m._n tompson_n and_o i_o in_o particular_a nor_o be_v by_o he_o apply_v against_o any_o passage_n in_o the_o answer_n i_o will_v therefore_o pass_v they_o over_o more_o brief_o my_o purpose_n be_v chief_o to_o consider_v of_o such_o particular_n wherein_o he_o take_v exception_n against_o the_o answer_n only_o thus_o much_o i_o will_v advertise_v the_o reader_n that_o a_o good_a part_n of_o that_o which_o mr._n rutherf_n bring_v to_o prove_v many_o congregation_n in_o one_o church_n at_o ephesus_n have_v be_v answer_v long_o ago_o by_o mr._n baynes_n in_o his_o diocesan_n trial_n pag._n 5._o which_o i_o the_o rather_o commend_v to_o mr._n rutherford_n consideration_n because_o he_o count_v he_o a_o man_n of_o worth_n call_v he_o worthy_a baynes_n and_o for_o the_o help_n of_o such_o reader_n as_o can_v ready_o come_v to_o the_o book_n itself_o i_o will_v here_o transcribe_v a_o few_o line_n out_o of_o the_o same_o worthy_a baynes_n as_o they_o be_v to_o be_v find_v in_o his_o diocese_n trial_n p._n 5_o 6._o viz._n the_o church_n of_o ephesus_n be_v but_o one_o flock_n first_o it_o be_v likely_a that_o it_o be_v of_o no_o other_o form_n then_o the_o other_o sir_n jerusalem_n antioch_n and_o corinth_n which_o he_o have_v before_o show_v to_o be_v each_o of_o they_o one_o congregation_n second_o it_o be_v but_o one_o flock_n that_o which_o presbyter_n may_v joint_o feed_v they_o have_v no_o diocesan_n paster_n if_o presbyter_n only_o than_o none_o but_o parishonall_a church_n in_o and_o about_o ephesus_n theremay_v be_v many_o flock_n but_o god_n ordain_v none_o but_o such_o as_o may_v whole_o meet_v with_o those_o who_o have_v the_o care_n of_o feed_v and_o govern_v of_o they_o peter_n indeed_o 1_o pet._n 5._o 2._o call_v all_o those_o he_o write_v unto_o one_o flock_n but_o that_o be_v in_o regard_n either_o of_o the_o mystical_a estate_n of_o the_o faithful_a or_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o common_a nature_n which_o be_v in_o all_o church_n one_o and_o the_o same_o but_o proper_o and_o in_o external_a adunation_n one_o flock_n be_v but_o one_o congregation_n three_o parish_n according_a to_o the_o adverse_a opinion_n be_v not_o then_o divide_v neither_o do_v the_o long_a and_o fruitful_a labour_n of_o the_o apostle_n argue_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v parish_n church_n in_o diocesan_n wise_a add_v but_o a_o great_a number_n of_o sister_n church_n but_o when_o it_o be_v say_v that_o all_o asia_n do_v hear_v the_o meaning_n be_v that_o from_o hand_n to_o hand_n it_o do_v run_v through_o asia_n so_o as_o church_n be_v plant_v every_o where_o even_o where_o paul_n come_v not_o as_o at_o colosse_n there_o may_v be_v many_o church_n in_o asia_n and_o many_o convert_v by_o peter_n and_o other_o fruitful_a labour_n without_o subordination_n of_o church_n chap._n xvi_o whether_o the_o church_n at_o antioch_n be_v only_o one_o congregation_n and_o whether_o act_v 14._o 27._o and_o 15._o 30._o do_v not_o prove_v the_o affirmative_a the_o answer_n have_v in_o pag._n 5._o allege_a acts._n 14._o 27._o and_o 15._o 30_o 31._o to_o prove_v that_o the_o church_n at_o antioch_n be_v no_o more_o than_o may_v be_v gather_v together_o into_o one_o place_n mr._n rutherford_n in_o answer_n hereto_o say_v p._n 472_o 473._o that_o the_o place_n act_v 14._o 27._o be_v the_o representative_a church_n and_o that_o he_o believe_v the_o assemble_v of_o the_o multitude_n act_v 15._o vers_fw-la 30._o must_v be_v take_v distributive_o answ_n this_o answer_n of_o mr._n rutherford_n to_o the_o former_a place_n be_v remove_v long_o ago_o by_o worthy_a mr._n baynes_n who_o also_o understand_v the_o latter_a place_n as_o we_o do_v and_o not_o as_o mr._n rutherford_n for_o in_o his_o diocese_n trial_n maintain_v this_o position_n that_o the_o church_n institute_v by_o the_o apostle_n be_v only_o such_o as_o may_v meet_v in_o one_o congregation_n ordinary_o and_o give_v this_o very_a place_n and_o instance_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n for_o one_o of_o his_o ground_n for_o confirm_v the_o say_a position_n p._n 5._o he_o come_v immediate_o thereupon_o to_o answer_v a_o objection_n which_o be_v the_o very_a same_o that_o here_o mr._n rutherford_n bring_v to_o the_o former_a place_n viz._n that_o the_o church_n mention_v in_o that_o place_n be_v the_o minister_n or_o representative_a church_n for_o the_o remove_n whereof_o mr._n baynes_n return_v 4._o thing_n 1._o that_o the_o word_n church_n be_v never_o so_o
use_v 2._o he_o argue_v by_o analogy_n from_o that_o act_n 11._o where_o peter_n give_v account_n before_o the_o whole_a church_n even_o the_o church_n of_o the_o faithful_a and_o therefore_o in_o like_a sort_n paul_n and_o barnabas_n may_v report_v before_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o the_o faithful_a what_o thing_n god_n have_v do_v by_o they_o 3._o say_v he_o they_o make_v relation_n to_o that_o church_n which_o have_v send_v they_o forth_o with_o prayer_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n and_o this_o church_n stand_v of_o all_o those_o who_o assemble_v to_o the_o public_a service_n and_o worship_n of_o god_n which_o be_v clear_a act_v 13._o 2._o 4._o his_o four_o particular_a be_v this_o other_o place_n of_o act_n 15._o vers_fw-la 30._o where_o say_v he_o the_o people_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n be_v gather_v together_o to_o consider_v of_o decree_n send_v they_o by_o the_o apostle_n from_o jerusalem_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o all_o which_o we_o clear_o perceive_v the_o judgement_n of_o this_o worthy_a man_n to_o be_v the_o same_o with_o we_o and_o as_o clear_o against_o mr._n rutherford_n as_o can_v be_v express_v which_o be_v so_o and_o his_o judgement_n be_v deliver_v upon_o such_o reason_n as_o seem_v to_o i_o weighty_a and_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n do_v not_o remove_v i_o therefore_o see_v no_o sufficient_a reason_n to_o think_v otherwise_o of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n then_o former_o for_o as_o for_o m._n rutherford_n his_o reason_n to_o prove_v the_o place_n act_v 14._o 27._o to_o be_v mean_v of_o a_o representative_a church_n viz._n that_o they_o meet_v for_o a_o matter_n of_o discipline_n at_o least_o for_o a_o matter_n that_o concern_v all_o the_o church_n to_o wit_n to_o know_v how_o god_n have_v open_v the_o door_n of_o say_v unto_o the_o gentile_n the_o answer_n be_v that_o this_o do_v not_o evince_v the_o thing_n 1._o because_o rehearse_v how_o god_n have_v open_v the_o door_n of_o faith_n unto_o the_o gentile_n be_v neither_o admission_n of_o member_n nor_o of_o officer_n nor_o any_o matter_n of_o censure_n nor_o any_o thing_n else_o but_o only_o a_o mere_a declaration_n of_o the_o gracious_a work_n of_o the_o lord_n can_v be_v any_o matter_n of_o discipline_n as_o i_o conceive_v 2._o suppose_v it_o be_v a_o meeting_n for_o matter_n of_o discipline_n must_v it_o need_v be_v a_o meeting_n for_o elder_n alone_o without_o the_o presence_n of_o the_o faithful_a will_n mr._n rutherford_n deny_v it_o to_o be_v lawful_a for_o any_o to_o be_v present_a at_o matter_n of_o discipline_n but_o only_o the_o elder_n i_o suppose_v he_o will_v not_o deny_v it_o at_o all_o sure_o i_o be_o he_o have_v heretofore_o write_v otherways_o peaceable_a plea_n p._n 49._o where_o he_o grant_v that_o all_o matter_n of_o discipline_n must_v be_v do_v with_o the_o people_n consent_n and_o allege_v about_o 19_o or_o 20._o divine_v old_a and_o new_a for_o the_o same_o tenet_n now_o if_o matter_n of_o discipline_n must_v be_v do_v with_o the_o people_n consent_n than_o the_o people_n must_v be_v present_a thereat_o for_o else_o they_o give_v their_o consent_n blindefold_a and_o if_o they_o must_v be_v present_a at_o such_o matter_n then_o suppose_v the_o matter_n mention_v in_o the_o scripture_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n have_v be_v of_o that_o nature_n yet_o the_o church_n that_o be_v gather_v together_o about_o the_o same_o need_v not_o to_o be_v a_o representative_a church_n of_o elder_n alone_o as_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v have_v it_o but_o may_v consist_v of_o the_o people_n also_o who_o by_o his_o own_o grant_n may_v be_v lawful_o present_a at_o such_o matter_n 3._o be_v it_o a_o matter_n of_o discipline_n or_o a_o matter_n that_o concern_v all_o the_o church_n or_o what_o else_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v have_v it_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n when_o they_o be_v at_o jerusalem_n do_v declare_v such_o matter_n as_o here_o they_o do_v declare_v at_o antioch_n not_o only_o to_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n who_o he_o perhaps_o will_v make_v a_o representative_a church_n but_o also_o to_o a_o church_n beside_o they_o i_o mean_v beside_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n for_o so_o it_o be_v say_v act_v 15._o 4._o that_o at_o jerusâ—lem_n they_o be_v receive_v of_o the_o church_n and_o of_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n and_o declare_v all_o thing_n that_o god_n have_v do_v with_o they_o and_o vers_fw-la 12._o they_o declare_v to_o the_o multitude_n what_o miracle_n and_o wonder_n god_n have_v wrought_v among_o the_o gentile_n by_o they_o now_o if_o they_o declare_v these_o thing_n at_o jerusalem_n not_o only_o to_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n as_o to_o a_o representative_a church_n but_o to_o the_o church_n of_o the_o faithful_a also_o as_o the_o text_n say_v they_o do_v what_o reason_n can_v be_v render_v that_o the_o church_n which_o be_v gather_v together_o at_o antioch_n shall_v be_v only_o a_o representative_a church_n and_o that_o the_o people_n there_o be_v not_o present_a for_o my_o part_n i_o see_v no_o reason_n for_o it_o but_o that_o they_o may_v declare_v these_o thing_n to_o the_o brethren_n aâ—_n antioch_n as_o well_o as_o to_o the_o brethren_n at_o jerusalem_n and_o as_o well_o to_o a_o representative_a church_n at_o jerusalem_n as_o to_o a_o representative_a church_n at_o antioch_n and_o therefore_o since_o it_o be_v apparent_a that_o at_o jerusalem_n they_o declare_v these_o thing_n to_o a_o church_n which_o consist_v of_o other_o beside_o apostle_n and_o elder_n the_o church_n at_o antioch_n to_o who_o they_o declare_v the_o same_o thing_n may_v be_v also_o a_o church_n of_o the_o like_a kind_n and_o not_o a_o representative_a church_n as_o our_o brother_n conceive_v it_o to_o be_v 4._o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n which_o they_o do_v declare_v to_o this_o church_n be_v such_o as_o that_o it_o be_v fit_a enough_o for_o the_o people_n to_o be_v acquaint_v therewith_o which_o the_o text_n mention_n in_o two_o clause_n first_o more_o general_o all_o that_o god_n have_v do_v with_o they_o second_o more_o special_o how_o he_o have_v open_v the_o door_n of_o faith_n to_o the_o gentile_n now_o suppose_v the_o people_n have_v nothing_o to_o do_v in_o matter_n of_o judicature_n by_o way_n of_o power_n therein_o yet_o to_o be_v inform_v of_o other_o people_n conversion_n and_o how_o god_n bless_v the_o labour_n of_o the_o apostle_n to_o that_o end_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n they_o declare_v to_o this_o church_n these_o be_v no_o such_o matter_n but_o the_o people_n may_v be_v acquaint_v therewith_o for_o their_o comfort_n and_o that_o god_n may_v have_v praise_n from_o they_o all_o and_o therefore_o the_o church_n to_o who_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n declare_v these_o thing_n need_v not_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o elder_n alone_o but_o may_v well_o enough_o be_v a_o church_n consist_v also_o of_o ordinary_a christian_n 5._o paul_n think_v it_o not_o unmeet_a to_o make_v know_v to_o all_o the_o corinthian_n the_o grace_n of_o god_n bestow_v on_o the_o church_n of_o macedonia_n 2_o cor._n 9_o 1_o 2._o and_o declare_v to_o they_o of_o macedonia_n the_o forwardness_n of_o the_o corinthian_n in_o the_o grace_n of_o liberality_n 2_o cor._n 9_o 2._o show_v the_o good_a that_o come_v hereby_o in_o that_o the_o example_n of_o god_n grace_n in_o some_o provoke_v many_o other_o to_o the_o like_a 2_o cor._n 9_o 2._o your_o zeal_n say_v he_o have_v provoke_v very_o many_o and_o likewise_o in_o that_o by_o this_o mean_n there_o redound_v many_o thanksgiving_n unto_o god_n vers_fw-la 12_o 13._o and_o if_o upon_o these_o and_o other_o good_a cause_n he_o do_v thus_o practice_n towards_o the_o christian_n of_o macedonia_n and_o achaia_n i_o know_v no_o good_a reason_n why_o he_o and_o barnabas_n shall_v deal_v otherwise_o with_o the_o christian_n at_o antioch_n and_o conceal_v from_o they_o the_o gracious_a work_n of_o god_n by_o their_o ministry_n among_o the_o gentile_n and_o make_v know_v the_o same_o only_a to_o a_o representative_a church_n of_o elder_n as_o for_o our_o brother_n answer_n to_o the_o other_o scripture_n act._n 15._o 30._o that_o the_o assemble_v of_o the_o multitude_n there_o speak_v of_o must_v be_v take_v distributive_o i_o conceive_v the_o text_n will_v not_o bear_v that_o exposition_n for_o the_o word_n be_v that_o they_o gather_v the_o multitude_n together_o then_o deliver_v the_o epistle_n now_o if_o this_o multitude_n be_v gather_v together_o not_o in_o one_o assembly_n but_o diverse_a how_o can_v the_o epistle_n be_v but_o one_o be_v deliver_v to_o they_o all_o can_v one_o epistle_n be_v deliver_v to_o sundry_a or_o several_a assembly_n at_o one_o time_n i_o suppose_v it_o be_v not_o possible_a except_o we_o shall_v imagine_v there_o be_v sundry_a copy_n one_o to_o be_v
of_o nice_a the_o first_o general_a council_n of_o constantinople_n with_o other_o counsel_n and_o author_n witness_v the_o same_o pag._n 201_o 202._o and_o in_o a_o three_o place_n he_o grant_v that_o all_o matter_n in_o the_o church_n must_v be_v do_v with_o the_o people_n consent_n consentiente_fw-la plebe_fw-la allege_v a_o matter_n of_o 18._o or_o 19_o author_n for_o the_o same_o tenet_n peaceable_a plea_n p._n 49._o and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o allege_v and_o approve_v the_o judgement_n of_o mr._n calderwood_n and_o mr._n cartwright_n affirm_v that_o this_o liberty_n be_v purchase_v by_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n due_a right_n second_o pag._n 464._o all_o which_o do_v plain_o show_v that_o in_o his_o judgement_n the_o people_n have_v some_o 〈◊〉_d or_o privilege_n or_o right_a in_o church_n matter_n yea_o as_o himself_o say_v in_o this_o they_o have_v divinum_fw-la jus_o god_n right_a and_o yet_o for_o all_o this_o the_o apostle_n word_n do_v plain_o forbid_v woman_n to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n 1_o cor._n 14._o 34._o 1_o tim._n 2._o 12._o which_o very_o prohibition_n to_o woman_n do_v also_o secret_o imply_v that_o man_n may_v have_v liberty_n to_o practice_v though_o woman_n may_v not_o now_o then_o if_o the_o people_n have_v liberty_n privilege_n right_o to_o consent_v and_o act_n in_o church_n matter_n yea_o to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n and_o yet_o woman_n may_v not_o speak_v therein_o how_o can_v this_o stand_v which_o here_o m._n rutherford_n write_v that_o if_o the_o people_n have_v any_o liberty_n this_o liberty_n must_v also_o be_v due_a to_o woman_n if_o the_o apostle_n word_n and_o our_o brother_n own_o doctrine_n in_o the_o place_n cite_v do_v stand_v his_o say_n in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v now_o in_o hand_n can_v stand_v they_o be_v so_o contrary_a one_o to_o another_o three_o say_v he_o what_o privilege_n the_o people_n have_v in_o ordination_n to_o confer_v a_o ministry_n which_o they_o neither_o have_v formal_o nor_o virtual_o i_o know_v not_o answ_n neither_o formal_o nor_o virtual_o then_o hear_v your_o own_o word_n pag._n 7._o i_o deny_v not_o but_o there_o be_v a_o power_n virtual_a not_o formal_a in_o the_o church_n of_o believer_n to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordination_n of_o pastor_n hic_fw-la &_o nunc_fw-la this_o power_n be_v virtual_a not_o formal_a etc._n etc._n whereas_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n the_o virtual_a power_n as_o well_o as_o the_o formal_a be_v deny_v which_o thing_n be_v not_o free_a from_o interfer_v or_o strong_a appearance_n thereof_o our_o word_n be_v not_o just_a the_o same_o which_o m._n rutherford_n set_v down_o a_o privilege_n in_o ordination_n to_o confer_v a_o ministry_n but_o these_o be_v our_o word_n a_o liberty_n exercise_v about_o ordination_n etc._n etc._n and_o who_o know_v not_o but_o there_o may_v be_v a_o liberty_n exercise_v about_o ordination_n or_o any_o other_o ordinance_n by_o way_n of_o consent_n thereto_o or_o desire_v thereof_o etc._n etc._n without_o any_o authoritative_a act_n therein_o and_o if_o this_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n be_v such_o a_o fault_n then_o how_o shall_v he_o be_v justify_v who_o do_v give_v to_o the_o people_n a_o great_a matter_n than_o this_o liberty_n do_v amount_v unto_o even_o a_o power_n to_o do_v that_o which_o shall_v stand_v for_o ordination_n itself_o which_o to_o do_v i_o conceive_v be_v more_o than_o to_o exercise_v some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n and_o when_o the_o reader_n shall_v have_v consider_v these_o ensue_a word_n of_o m_o rutherford_n then_o let_v he_o be_v judge_n whether_o m._n rutherford_n do_v not_o give_v this_o power_n unto_o the_o people_n in_o some_o case_n as_o a_o rose_n say_v he_o cause_v to_o grow_v in_o winter_n by_o art_n be_v of_o that_o same_o nature_n with_o a_o rise_v produce_v in_o summer_n by_o nature_n though_o the_o manner_n of_o production_n be_v different_a so_o be_v they_o both_o true_a pastor_n those_o who_o have_v no_o call_n but_o the_o people_n election_n and_o those_o who_o have_v ordination_n by_o pastor_n p._n 186._o and_o in_o the_o page_n follow_v he_o give_v two_o reason_n to_o prove_v that_o in_o some_o case_n election_n by_o the_o people_n only_o may_v stand_v for_o ordination_n 1._o because_o god_n be_v not_o necessary_o tie_v to_o succession_n of_o pastor_n 2._o because_o where_o man_n be_v gift_v for_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o there_o be_v no_o pastor_n to_o be_v have_v the_o give_v of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o a_o call_n of_o god_n who_o be_v not_o want_v to_o his_o own_o gracious_a intention_n though_o ordinary_a mean_n fail_v now_o if_o the_o people_n without_o pastor_n may_v do_v that_o which_o shall_v stand_v for_o ordination_n and_o if_o their_o election_n do_v make_v a_o minister_n in_o some_o case_n this_o seem_v to_o be_v more_o then_o only_o to_o exercise_v some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n for_o as_o much_o as_o they_o may_v do_v this_o latter_a and_o possible_o no_o minister_n be_v make_v thereby_o whereas_o in_o the_o other_o case_n a_o man_n be_v make_v a_o true_a pastor_n and_o minister_n as_o well_o as_o by_o ordination_n itself_o marvel_v it_o be_v therefore_o that_o the_o great_a be_v allow_v as_o lawful_a and_o not_o the_o lesser_a that_o some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n may_v not_o be_v allow_v and_o yet_o that_o can_v be_v allow_v which_o may_v stand_v for_o ordination_n itself_o and_o which_o make_v a_o ministerâ—_n as_o true_o as_o ordination_n do_v chap._n xviii_o of_o mr._n rutherford_n report_n of_o synodical_a proposition_n in_o new-england_n next_o after_o this_o our_o reverend_a author_n fall_v to_o scan_v as_o he_o say_v pag._n 476._o some_o synodical_a proposition_n of_o the_o church_n of_o new_a england_n as_o he_o call_v they_o together_o with_o a_o table_n of_o church_n power_n which_o he_o call_v the_o table_n of_o new_a england_n but_o with_o favour_n of_o soworthy_a a_o man_n he_o do_v great_o mistake_v the_o matter_n for_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o such_o synod_n nor_o synodical_a proposition_n as_o he_o speak_v of_o nor_o any_o such_o table_n of_o new_a england_n as_o he_o mention_v there_o be_v indeed_o at_o cambridge_n in_o the_o year_n 1643._o a_o print_a conference_n of_o some_o of_o the_o elder_n of_o that_o country_n where_o sundry_a point_n of_o church_n judgement_n be_v private_o discourse_v of_o and_o this_o be_v all_o but_o as_o the_o meeting_n be_v not_o any_o synod_n as_o synod_n be_v usual_o understand_v so_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o synodical_a proposition_n there_o agree_v upon_o nor_o any_o table_n of_o proposition_n agree_v upon_o to_o be_v give_v forth_o as_o the_o doctrine_n of_o new_a england_n this_o i_o be_o able_a to_o testify_v have_v be_v present_a at_o that_o meeting_n from_o the_o begin_n thereof_o unto_o the_o end_n and_o sundry_a other_o of_o the_o elder_n of_o these_o church_n can_v testify_v the_o same_o upon_o the_o same_o ground_n and_o know_v full_a well_o the_o truth_n of_o what_o i_o hear_v relate_v i_o will_v not_o spend_v time_n in_o reply_v to_o what_o he_o have_v write_v upon_o so_o manifest_a misinformation_n and_o mistake_v what_o information_n he_o go_v upon_o i_o know_v not_o per_fw-mi adventure_v some_o note_n may_v have_v come_v to_o his_o view_n which_o one_o or_o other_o may_v gather_v at_o that_o conference_n for_o his_o own_o private_a use_n peradventure_o some_o in_o their_o simplicity_n mean_v no_o hurt_n many_o have_v call_v that_o private_a conference_n by_o the_o name_n and_o term_v of_o a_o synoâ—_n and_o m._n rutherford_n may_v thereupon_o adventure_v to_o publish_v in_o print_n as_o here_o we_o see_v but_o however_o they_o mistake_v a_o rose_n sure_o i_o be_o synodical_a proposition_n there_o be_v none_o 〈◊〉_d any_o synod_n at_o all_o not_o new_a england_n table_n and_o therefore_o i_o think_v himself_o and_o other_o may_v do_v well_o and_o wise_o hereafter_o to_o be_v inform_v by_o good_a and_o sufficient_a intelligence_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o they_o publish_v to_o the_o world_n concerâ—ing_v the_o church_n in_o new_a england_n or_o else_o not_o to_o believe_v the_o same_o much_o less_o to_o divulge_v the_o same_o in_o print_n for_o what_o comfort_n can_v it_o be_v to_o any_o christian_n to_o receive_v and_o publish_v to_o the_o world_n against_o a_o man_n neighbour_n special_o against_o whole_a church_n of_o christ_n such_o report_v as_o for_o the_o matter_n contain_v in_o they_o do_v not_o agree_v with_o truth_n chap._n xix_o of_o the_o appeal_v of_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n and_o of_o the_o power_n and_o jurisdiction_n in_o general_a counsel_n deny_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n whether_o therein_o he_o do_v not_o contradict_v himself_o and_o also_o overthrow_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n assembly_n in_o
and_o hold_v by_o the_o whole_a this_o reason_n we_o see_v be_v now_o remove_v and_o utter_o take_v away_o forasmuch_o as_o all_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v deny_v to_o the_o general_a council_n which_o be_v the_o inevitable_a now_o if_o there_o be_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o the_o general_a council_n than_o there_o can_v be_v no_o appeal_n to_o such_o a_o council_n for_o such_o a_o end_n and_o if_o no_o appeal_n to_o that_o council_n than_o the_o rule_n do_v not_o always_o hold_v that_o there_o must_v be_v appeal_n from_o the_o lesser_a assembly_n to_o the_o great_a and_o if_o this_o do_v not_o always_o hold_v then_o there_o may_v be_v independent_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o a_o congregation_n without_o appeal_n from_o the_o same_o though_o it_o be_v a_o lesser_a assembly_n than_o the_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n presbytery_n and_o thus_o our_o purpose_n be_v gain_v for_o how_o can_v it_o be_v avoid_v except_o this_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n yea_o supreme_a or_o independent_a power_n which_o be_v deny_v to_o the_o general_a council_n can_v be_v prove_v to_o be_v in_o the_o class_n synod_n or_o national_a presbytery_n which_o we_o think_v can_v be_v do_v indeed_o to_o say_v on_o the_o one_o side_n that_o 〈◊〉_d be_v no_o independent_a power_n in_o the_o congregation_n and_o to_o say_v on_o the_o other_o side_n that_o there_o be_v no_o power_n at_o all_o of_o jurisdiction_n in_o general_a counsel_n this_o do_v inevitable_o lay_v a_o necessity_n of_o such_o independent_a power_n in_o these_o intermediat_a assembly_n of_o the_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_a presbytery_n except_o we_o shall_v say_v there_o be_v no_o such_o power_n at_o all_o appoint_v by_o christ_n in_o any_o church_n assembly_n on_o earth_n now_o if_o such_o independent_a power_n be_v give_v to_o the_o presbytery_n mention_v as_o it_o needs_o must_v if_o it_o be_v neither_o in_o the_o general_a council_n nor_o in_o the_o single_a congregation_n than_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v upon_o what_o scripture_n or_o scripture_n such_o power_n in_o the_o say_a presbytery_n be_v ground_v and_o build_v and_o whether_o the_o say_a power_n belong_v unto_o they_o all_o or_o only_o unto_o some_o of_o they_o and_o which_o they_o be_v and_o why_o not_o to_o the_o rest_n as_o well_o yea_o why_o not_o to_o the_o single_a congregation_n nor_o yet_o to_o the_o general_a council_n as_o well_o as_o to_o any_o of_o they_o when_o this_o quaere_fw-la be_v answer_v and_o the_o answer_n sufficient_o prove_v by_o scripture_n than_o we_o shall_v see_v more_o reason_n for_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o such_o assembly_n over_o the_o particular_a congregation_n then_o yet_o we_o have_v see_v in_o the_o mean_a time_n this_o quaere_fw-la with_o the_o rest_n i_o leave_v to_o our_o brethren_n consideration_n chap._n xx._n if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v all_o society_n to_o end_n in_o monarchy_n whether_o it_o will_v not_o thence_o follow_v that_o the_o government_n of_o church_n must_v so_o end_v as_o well_o as_o that_o congregation_n must_v depend_v on_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n in_o government_n to_o other_o society_n and_o whether_o the_o multitude_n of_o grecian_n and_o hebrew_n who_o choose_v the_o seven_o deacon_n act._n 6._o be_v two_o congregation_n or_o one_o only_a pag_n 482._o if_o church_n must_v be_v dependent_a on_o synod_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n by_o the_o same_o reason_n church_n must_v end_v in_o a_o monarchy_n on_o earth_n for_o which_o he_o allege_v the_o answ_n pag._n 20._o and_o then_o subjoin_v his_o answer_n thus_o i_o see_v this_o say_v without_o any_o approbation_n church_n depend_v on_o many_o above_o they_o for_o unity_n but_o what_o consquence_n in_o this_o ergâ—_fw-la they_o depend_v upon_o one_o visible_a monarch_n it_o be_v a_o unjust_a consequence_n answ_n with_o favour_n of_o so_o worthy_a a_o man_n he_o great_o wrong_v our_o word_n and_o thereby_o wrong_v the_o reader_n by_o leave_v out_o those_o word_n wherein_o the_o plainness_n and_o strength_n of_o our_o argumentation_n lie_v therefore_o i_o be_o force_v here_o to_o relate_v the_o order_n and_o progress_n of_o the_o dispute_n in_o that_o script_n of_o we_o and_o to_o set_v down_o our_o word_n there_o use_v because_o as_o mr._n rutherford_n have_v set_v they_o down_o the_o strength_n of_o consequence_n be_v suppress_v from_o the_o reader_n knowledge_n and_o so_o indeed_o his_o answer_n be_v make_v easy_a but_o the_o naked_a truth_n lie_v thus_o our_o reverend_a brother_n to_o who_o treatise_n we_o return_v answer_v in_o that_o small_a piece_n of_o we_o have_v say_v that_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n be_v teach_v by_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n to_o all_o society_n whatsoever_o whether_o commonwealth_n or_o army_n university_n or_o navy_n he_o present_o add_v by_o way_n of_o prevention_n not_o that_o therefore_o this_o government_n of_o church_n shall_v as_o those_o end_n in_o a_o monarchy_n upon_o earth_n in_o answer_v whereto_o beside_o other_o thing_n we_o have_v these_o word_n pag._n 21._o if_o church_n must_v be_v dependent_a on_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n to_o all_o society_n whatsoever_o than_o we_o see_v not_o how_o it_o will_v be_v avoid_v but_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n church_n must_v end_v in_o a_o monarchy_n on_o earth_n if_o it_o be_v once_o clear_v that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n do_v teach_v all_o society_n whatever_o so_o to_o end_v so_o there_o be_v as_o good_a reason_n for_o this_o as_o for_o the_o other_o which_o last_o word_n if_o it_o be_v once_o prove_v etc._n etc._n mr._n rutherford_n whole_o leave_v out_o and_o suppress_v and_o so_o make_v his_o own_o answer_n more_o easy_a but_o i_o desire_v so_o much_o favour_n which_o i_o think_v be_v but_o reasonable_a that_o he_o that_o will_v undertake_v to_o answer_v our_o writing_n will_v represent_v our_o word_n and_o argue_v as_o it_o be_v and_o no_o otherwise_o and_o then_o i_o be_o content_a that_o the_o same_o may_v come_v under_o trial_n now_o our_o argue_v be_v this_o if_o church_n must_v be_v dependent_a upon_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n upon_o this_o reason_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n to_o all_o society_n whatsoever_o then_o by_o the_o like_a reason_n let_v it_o be_v once_o prove_v which_o be_v by_o mr._n herle_v affirm_v that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v all_o society_n to_o end_n in_o a_o monarchy_n and_o it_o will_v thereupon_o follow_v that_o church_n must_v likewise_o end_v in_o the_o same_o manner_n if_o we_o yield_v thus_o much_o that_o what_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v other_o society_n the_o same_o must_v be_v observe_v in_o the_o government_n of_o church_n i_o think_v it_o will_v then_o follow_v that_o if_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v other_o society_n to_o end_n in_o a_o monarchy_n on_o earth_n the_o government_n of_o church_n must_v do_v so_o also_o this_o be_v our_o manner_n of_o argue_v in_o which_o the_o consequence_n be_v the_o same_o with_o that_o which_o our_o brethren_n think_v so_o strong_a viz._n that_o because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n therefore_o there_o must_v be_v in_o the_o church_n a_o government_n of_o synod_n if_o any_o say_v the_o consequence_n be_v not_o alike_o necessary_a in_o both_o case_n because_o the_o ground_n do_v not_o hold_v alike_o in_o both_o for_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n do_v not_o teach_v all_o society_n on_o earth_n to_o end_v in_o a_o monarchy_n as_o it_o do_v teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n the_o answer_n in_o that_o we_o have_v plain_o say_v the_o same_o in_o the_o place_n of_o the_o answerer_n allege_v viz._n p._n 20_o 21._o but_o the_o main_a question_n lie_v not_o there_o whether_o other_o society_n do_v end_n in_o monarchy_n for_o though_o the_o reverend_a author_n who_o we_o there_o do_v answer_v do_v seem_v so_o to_o judge_v yet_o we_o have_v there_o plain_o declare_v that_o we_o conceive_v of_o that_o matter_n otherwise_o but_o here_o do_v lie_v the_o main_a question_n viz._n suppose_v it_o be_v grant_v that_o light_n of_o nature_n do_v teach_v all_o society_n to_o end_n in_o a_o monarchy_n on_o earth_n whether_o will_v it_o not_o then_o follow_v that_o church_n must_v also_o so_o end_n and_o that_o this_o be_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n will_v plain_o appear_v to_o any_o that_o shall_v peruse_v the_o place_n and_o to_o this_o question_n our_o answer_n be_v that_o the_o consequence_n for_o
arise_v offence_n between_o congregation_n there_o must_v be_v a_o church_n of_o synod_n above_o congregation_n and_o those_o synod_n must_v judge_v and_o redress_v those_o offence_n to_o this_o we_o there_o answer_v that_o all_o offence_n do_v not_o fall_v within_o the_o compass_n of_o this_o rule_n and_o remedy_n tell_v the_o church_n and_o so_o no_o dependency_n of_o congregation_n upon_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o synod_n can_v be_v sufficient_o prove_v by_o this_o text_n first_o of_o all_o we_o instance_n in_o the_o offence_n of_o national_a church_n of_o which_o we_o suppose_v our_o brother_n will_v not_o say_v that_o they_o fall_v within_o the_o compass_n of_o our_o saviour_n rule_n tell_v the_o church_n for_o then_o the_o independency_n of_o national_a church_n and_o national_a synod_n be_v overthrow_v as_o well_o as_o the_o congregation_n which_o we_o suppose_v he_o will_v not_o grant_v and_o yet_o it_o can_v be_v avoid_v if_o his_o reason_n for_o the_o dependency_n of_o congregation_n upon_o synod_n do_v stand_v firm_a and_o next_o of_o all_o we_o instance_n in_o the_o offence_n of_o turk_n and_o indian_n and_o other_o heathen_n who_o may_v offend_v christian_n and_o yet_o be_v not_o to_o be_v complain_v of_o to_o the_o church_n the_o apostle_n express_o teach_v the_o contrary_a 1_o col._n 5._o this_o be_v the_o scope_n of_o that_o passage_n in_o the_o answer_n which_o here_o mr._n rutherford_n except_v against_o let_v we_o now_o hear_v what_o it_o be_v which_o he_o say_v thereto_o because_o say_v he_o ordinary_a communion_n fail_v when_o you_o go_v high_o than_o a_o national_a church_n and_o christ_n way_n suppose_v art_n ordinary_a communion_n as_o be_v clear_a if_o thy_o brother_n offend_v &c_n &c_n therefore_o i_o deny_v that_o this_o remedy_n be_v needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a church_n answ_n 1._o if_o this_o remedy_n be_v not_o needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a than_o the_o rule_n do_v not_o universal_o hold_v true_a that_o the_o remedy_n complaint_n to_o the_o church_n must_v be_v as_o large_a as_o the_o malady_n offence_n and_o so_o our_o purpose_n be_v gain_v for_o our_o purpose_n in_o that_o place_n be_v to_o prove_v this_o very_a thing_n by_o this_o same_o instance_n of_o the_o offence_n of_o a_o national_a church_n wherein_o mr._n rutherford_n we_o see_v do_v come_v over_o to_o we_o and_o affirm_v the_o same_o that_o we_o do_v to_o what_o end_n therefore_o be_v it_o to_o make_v show_n of_o remove_v or_o weaken_v what_o he_o have_v say_v since_o when_o it_o come_v to_o the_o issue_n he_o plain_o concur_v with_o we_o for_o by_o this_o mean_v our_o tenant_n be_v not_o confute_v but_o confirm_v with_o his_o attest_v thereto_o 2._o though_o here_o he_o say_v this_o remedy_n be_v not_o needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a yet_o i_o be_o mistake_v if_o elsewhere_o he_o speak_v not_o otherwise_o for_o in_o pag._n 311._o prepound_v this_o objection_n viz._n christ_n here_o speak_v of_o a_o present_a and_o constant_a removal_n of_o scandal_n a_o catholic_a council_n of_o the_o whole_a visible_a church_n be_v far_o of_o and_o can_v be_v have_v he_o return_v this_o for_o answer_v thereto_o that_o christ_n say_v he_o speak_v of_o a_o present_a and_o constant_a remedy_n only_o and_o of_o no_o remedy_n against_o the_o scandal_n of_o whole_a church_n be_v deny_v he_o speak_v of_o all_o remedye_n to_o gain_v any_o offender_n person_n or_o church_n and_o in_o pag._n 322._o he_o say_v christ_n give_v a_o instance_n only_o in_o a_o offend_a brother_n but_o the_o doctrine_n be_v for_o the_o cure_n of_o a_o offend_a church_n also_o and_o for_o all_o person_n to_o be_v gain_v thou_o have_v gain_v thy_o brother_n and_o say_v he_o we_o be_v to_o gain_v church_n as_o we_o be_v not_o to_o offend_v church_n 1_o cor._n 10._o 32._o again_o in_o his_o second_n pag._n 332._o speak_v of_o five_o sort_n of_o synod_n of_o which_o he_o call_v the_o five_o the_o general_a and_o oecuminick_n council_n he_o say_v that_o all_o these_o differ_v not_o in_o essence_n but_o in_o degree_n and_o what_o word_n of_o god_n as_o matth_n 18._o 16_o 17._o prove_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o one_o be_v for_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o all_o the_o five_o sort_n of_o synod_n last_o nothing_o can_v be_v more_o plain_a than_o those_o word_n pag._n 39_o this_o of_o our_o saviour_n tell_v the_o church_n be_v necessary_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o all_o church_n and_o court_n of_o christ_n even_o to_o a_o catholic_a council_n the_o same_o be_v also_o to_o be_v see_v in_o the_o peaceable_a plea_n p._n 86._o in_o all_o which_o saying_n he_o plain_o understand_v the_o text_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n to_o speak_v of_o a_o remedy_n for_o all_o that_o be_v to_o be_v gain_v yea_o a_o remedy_n for_o the_o offence_n of_o all_o person_n and_o church_n that_o may_v give_v offence_n which_o church_n he_o say_v may_v do_v and_o express_o affirm_v that_o it_o be_v to_o be_v apply_v to_o general_a counsel_n and_o that_o necessary_o and_o how_o these_o thing_n do_v agree_v with_o the_o place_n in_o hind_n where_o he_o say_v he_o deny_v the_o remedy_n be_v needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a let_v the_o wise_a and_o himself_o judge_v for_o for_o my_o part_n except_o there_o be_v some_o difference_n between_o necessary_a and_o needful_a the_o say_n to_o i_o do_v seem_v inconsistent_a one_o affirm_v the_o place_n be_v necessary_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o all_o church_n and_o court_n of_o christ_n even_o to_o general_a counsel_n and_o the_o other_o deny_v that_o the_o remedy_n there_o mention_v be_v needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a 2._o christ_n remedy_n say_v he_o be_v a_o church_n remedy_n for_o offence_n among_o the_o brethren_n and_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o indian_n be_v nomember_v of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o so_o be_v without_o they_o can_v be_v judge_v 1_o cor._n 5._o 12._o answ_n that_o indian_n can_v be_v judge_v by_o the_o church_n be_v very_o true_a but_o nothing_o against_o we_o for_o the_o very_a same_o that_o here_o be_v say_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n be_v say_v by_o we_o before_o in_o the_o place_n which_o himself_o do_v allege_v where_o we_o also_o bring_v the_o very_a same_o text_n of_o scripture_n which_o himself_o do_v bring_v now_o why_o shall_v these_o thing_n be_v bring_v as_o a_o confutation_n of_o we_o which_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o reception_n of_o that_o which_o we_o have_v deliver_v afore_o as_o our_o own_o judgement_n may_v not_o his_o reader_n be_v induce_v hereby_o to_o think_v that_o we_o have_v speak_v otherwise_o but_o to_o let_v this_o pass_v if_o indian_n can_v be_v judge_v by_o the_o church_n than_o still_o our_o purpose_n be_v gain_v for_o by_o this_o it_o appear_v that_o a_o offence_n may_v be_v commit_v where_o christ_n remedy_n tell_v the_o church_n may_v not_o be_v apply_v for_o the_o redress_n thereof_o and_o so_o that_o universal_a proposition_n christ_n remedy_n be_v as_o large_a as_o the_o malady_n and_o where_o a_o offence_n may_v be_v commit_v there_o to_o tell_v the_o church_n be_v the_o remedy_n for_o the_o redress_n of_o the_o same_o which_o our_o brethren_n do_v lay_v as_o the_o foundation_n on_o which_o to_o build_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n the_o universality_n i_o say_v of_o this_o proposition_n be_v utter_o overthrow_v by_o this_o instance_n of_o indian_n and_o so_o that_o scripture_n matth._n 18._o appear_v to_o be_v too_o weak_a a_o bottom_n to_o bear_v the_o building_n which_o our_o brethren_n will_v erect_v upon_o it_o nor_o be_v the_o matter_n much_o amend_v by_o that_o which_o our_o brother_n here_o bring_v for_o the_o help_a and_o clear_v of_o it_o that_o christ_n remedy_n be_v a_o church_n remedy_n for_o offence_n among_o brethren_n member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n for_o let_v this_o be_v grant_v as_o i_o know_v none_o that_o deny_v it_o yet_o still_o the_o question_n remain_v what_o be_v that_o church_n to_o which_o our_o saviour_n here_o give_v power_n to_o remove_v and_o redress_v scandal_n by_o excommunicate_v the_o offender_n we_o conceive_v this_o church_n be_v only_o the_o particular_a congregation_n and_o its_o presbytery_n and_o our_o brethren_n think_v it_o be_v also_o the_o class_n and_o synod_n but_o this_o apprehension_n of_o they_o be_v not_o confirm_v by_o say_v our_o saviour_n remedy_n be_v a_o church_n remedy_n for_o offence_n among_o member_n of_o the_o church_n inasmuch_o as_o the_o member_n of_o a_o national_a church_n as_o such_o be_v member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o our_o brethren_n judgement_n and_o yet_o our_o brother_n hold_v here_o be_v nor_o remedy_n prescribe_v for_o a_o delinquent_n national_a church_n and_o if_o he_o can_v so_o
no_o elder_n in_o the_o land_n or_o national_a church_n to_o lay_v on_o hand_n now_o have_v our_o word_n be_v deliver_v and_o set_v down_o by_o he_o as_o they_o come_v from_o we_o this_o speech_n and_o passage_n of_o he_o will_v have_v be_v useless_a and_o apparent_o bring_v in_o without_o cause_n for_o to_o what_o purpose_n shall_v he_o bring_v in_o this_o exception_n say_v except_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n in_o the_o land_n etc._n etc._n when_o ourselves_o have_v prevent_v he_o in_o this_o by_o put_v such_o a_o exception_n express_o into_o the_o prohibition_n which_o we_o deduce_v and_o gather_v from_o that_o scripture_n of_o numb_a 8._o 10._o sure_o this_o have_v not_o need_v but_o may_v have_v be_v spare_v if_o our_o word_n have_v be_v full_o relate_v but_o by_o this_o omission_n and_o concealment_n his_o own_o speech_n have_v more_o appearance_n of_o ground_n and_o reason_n in_o it_o than_o otherwise_o it_o will_v have_v have_v and_o our_o apprehension_n do_v not_o appear_v to_o his_o reader_n as_o indeed_o it_o be_v nor_o as_o himself_o receive_v it_o from_o we_o in_o that_o our_o answer_n which_o we_o have_v reason_n to_o take_v somewhat_o unkind_o from_o he_o and_o the_o rather_o because_o it_o be_v not_o only_o once_o but_o twice_o at_o the_o least_o that_o we_o have_v thus_o express_v ourselves_o in_o that_o answer_n once_o in_o the_o word_n which_o i_o have_v here_o above_o repeat_v and_o transcribe_v and_o again_o in_o pag._n 49._o where_o speak_v again_o of_o this_o same_o scripture_n numb_a 8._o v._n 10._o we_o say_v thus_o that_o we_o have_v show_v from_o that_o scripture_n that_o if_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n as_o at_o the_o first_o nor_o any_o that_o can_v convenient_o be_v get_v from_o other_o church_n than_o imposition_n of_o hand_n may_v lawful_o be_v perform_v by_o other_o nevertheless_o though_o we_o have_v thus_o express_v ourselves_o once_o and_o a_o second_o time_n yet_o m._n rutherford_n do_v not_o once_o give_v notice_n hereof_o unto_o his_o reader_n for_o aught_o that_o i_o can_v find_v but_o still_o pass_v by_o these_o word_n of_o borrow_v elder_n from_o other_o church_n do_v take_v advantage_n of_o the_o want_n thereof_o which_o indeed_o be_v not_o want_v in_o our_o church_n which_o he_o deal_v against_o but_o twice_o at_o the_o least_o be_v plain_o express_v therein_o and_o will_v not_o have_v be_v want_v in_o this_o passage_n which_o here_o he_o set_v down_o as_o we_o if_o himself_o have_v not_o conceal_v and_o suppress_v the_o same_o now_o to_o leave_v out_o those_o word_n of_o we_o which_o we_o have_v plain_o express_v two_o several_a time_n at_o the_o least_o and_o then_o to_o make_v advantage_n for_o himself_o against_o we_o for_o want_v thereof_o whether_o this_o be_v not_o such_o measure_n as_o we_o have_v cause_n to_o take_v unkind_o let_v himself_o and_o other_o consider_v the_o three_o particular_a of_o add_v word_n which_o never_o come_v from_o we_o i_o will_v brief_o pass_v over_o because_o it_o be_v of_o less_o moment_n as_o not_o so_o much_o misrepresent_v our_o meaning_n yet_o i_o conceive_v those_o word_n it_o by_o ordination_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tie_v to_o the_o presbytery_n alone_o which_o here_o be_v present_v to_o the_o reader_n as_o we_o be_v not_o at_o all_o to_o be_v find_v in_o our_o writing_n but_o i_o will_v not_o insist_v on_o this_o but_o come_v to_o consider_v of_o his_o answer_n there_o be_v not_o say_v he_o a_o place_n in_o all_o the_o word_n of_o god_n where_o people_n conserve_v ordination_n to_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n therefore_o our_o brethren_n flee_v to_o the_o old_a testament_n to_o prove_v it_o from_o the_o levite_n who_o receive_v imposition_n of_o band_n from_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n answ_n we_o have_v give_v a_o reason_n why_o no_o such_o scripture_n can_v be_v expect_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n viz._n because_o in_o those_o time_n elder_n be_v not_o want_v for_o there_o be_v the_o apostle_n and_o apostolic_a man_n who_o be_v elder_n in_o all_o church_n and_o say_v we_o we_o do_v willing_o grant_v that_o where_o elder_n be_v not_o want_v imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v to_o be_v perform_v by_o the_o elder_n ans_fw-fr p._n 49._o now_o for_o our_o brethren_n to_o require_v of_o we_o a_o example_n of_o imposition_n of_o hand_n perform_v without_o elder_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n in_o which_o time_n there_o be_v elder_n to_o be_v have_v this_o we_o think_v to_o be_v unreasonable_a first_o it_o be_v our_o opinion_n that_o when_o elder_n be_v to_o be_v have_v imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v not_o to_o be_v perform_v without_o those_o elder_n but_o by_o they_o moreover_o if_o it_o be_v such_o a_o disparagement_n to_o our_o cause_n that_o the_o scripture_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n afford_v no_o example_n of_o imposition_n of_o hand_n by_o the_o people_n how_o will_v mr._n rutherford_n free_a his_o own_o way_n from_o another_o objection_n which_o we_o think_v as_o sore_o and_o weighty_a against_o the_o same_o as_o this_o which_o they_o think_v of_o so_o much_o weight_n against_o we_o the_o objection_n i_o mean_v be_v this_o that_o there_o be_v not_o any_o place_n in_o all_o the_o scripture_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n where_o ordinary_a pastor_n or_o elder_n impose_v hand_n on_o ordinary_a pastor_n or_o elder_n but_o all_o the_o example_n in_o scripture_n concern_v this_o matter_n be_v such_o where_o either_o the_o person_n impose_v or_o the_o person_n on_o who_o hand_n be_v impose_v or_o both_o be_v officer_n of_o extraordinary_a note_n and_o degree_n such_o as_o now_o be_v not_o extant_a in_o the_o church_n but_o be_v cease_v long_o again_o not_o that_o i_o deny_v but_o a_o argument_n may_v be_v take_v from_o those_o example_n for_o imposition_n of_o hand_n in_o these_o day_n but_o the_o thing_n i_o stand_v upon_o be_v this_o that_o no_o example_n can_v be_v give_v from_o scripture_n direct_o parallel_v to_o the_o way_n which_o our_o brethren_n in_o these_o day_n do_v practice_v and_o allow_v but_o some_o dissonancy_n will_v be_v find_v therein_o from_o their_o way_n as_o well_o and_o perhaps_o as_o much_o as_o from_o the_o way_n of_o imposition_n of_o hand_n perform_v by_o the_o people_n in_o some_o case_n let_v they_o tell_v we_o of_o act._n 6._o v._n 6._o and_o 14._o 23._o and_o 1._o tim._n 5._o 22._o and_o we_o answer_v the_o person_n impose_v hand_n in_o those_o place_n be_v apostle_n and_o evangelist_n such_o as_o our_o brethren_n be_v not_o nor_o do_v so_o account_v themselves_o let_v they_o name_n act._n 13._o 3._o and_o 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o and_o we_o answer_v the_o person_n on_o who_o hand_n be_v there_o lay_v be_v the_o like_a even_a apostle_n and_o evangelist_n whatever_o the_o imposer_n be_v and_o therefore_o neither_o will_n these_o place_n perfect_o suit_v the_o case_n so_o that_o if_o we_o can_v give_v no_o example_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n of_o imposition_n of_o hand_n perform_v in_o some_o case_n by_o the_o people_n we_o think_v mr._n rutherford_n and_o out_o brethren_n of_o his_o way_n may_v be_v favourable_a to_o we_o for_o their_o own_o sake_n yet_o for_o the_o justification_n of_o our_o way_n and_o for_o further_a answer_n to_o this_o passage_n of_o mr._n rutherford_n we_o have_v this_o to_o say_v further_o that_o a_o example_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n of_o a_o practice_n not_o abolish_v in_o the_o new_a as_o ceremonial_a typical_a or_o of_o some_o peculiar_a reason_n special_o concern_v those_o time_n and_o people_n but_o of_o moral_a equity_n and_o reason_n such_o a_o example_n we_o think_v a_o sufficient_a warrant_n unto_o we_o for_o the_o like_a practice_n upon_o the_o like_a occasion_n in_o these_o day_n this_o i_o think_v mr_n rutherford_n must_v acknowledge_v for_o else_o he_o shall_v loose_v many_o argument_n which_o he_o frequent_o use_v in_o this_o treatise_n from_o the_o example_n of_o asa_n hezekiah_n josiah_n and_o other_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n for_o the_o prove_v of_o thing_n to_o be_v practise_v in_o the_o new_a and_o else_o himself_o and_o we_o all_o shall_v loose_v the_o argument_n for_o pedobaptisme_n which_o be_v take_v from_o circumcision_n yea_o and_o which_o be_v more_o if_o it_o be_v not_o thus_o the_o apostle_n argue_v will_v not_o be_v strong_a who_o do_v frequent_o argue_v from_o the_o example_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n to_o confirm_v and_o prove_v truth_n and_o virtue_n and_o to_o reprove_v and_o to_o condemn_v the_o contraâ—y_n in_o the_o new_a to_o instance_n in_o no_o more_o but_o 1_o cor._n 9_o 10._o 2._o heb._n 3._o 24._o which_o example_n together_o with_o that_o say_n rom._n 15._o 4._o whatsoever_o be_v write_v in_o former_a time_n be_v write_v for_o our_o learning_n and_o many_o more_o that_o may_v be_v
allege_v do_v abundant_o and_o plain_o prove_v the_o point_n in_o hand_n and_o therefore_o mr._n rutherford_n shall_v bear_v with_o we_o if_o we_o sometime_o argue_v from_o example_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n as_o for_o that_o which_o follow_v where_o he_o say_v but_o our_o brethren_n hold_v that_o the_o call_n of_o the_o levite_n and_o of_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v different_a as_o the_o officer_n and_o church_n of_o the_o jewish_a and_o christian_a church_n be_v different_a the_o answer_n be_v that_o i_o do_v not_o remember_v that_o we_o have_v speak_v one_o word_n of_o this_o matter_n either_o one_o way_n or_o other_o nor_o do_v he_o mention_v any_o place_n where_o we_o have_v speak_v aught_o of_o these_o thing_n and_o for_o the_o thing_n itself_o though_o many_o difference_n may_v be_v assign_v between_o the_o levite_n and_o pastor_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o between_o the_o jewish_a and_o christian_a church_n yet_o i_o know_v no_o such_o difference_n between_o they_o but_o that_o in_o thing_n which_o be_v of_o general_a and_o common_a nature_n concern_v they_o both_o in_o those_o we_o may_v lawful_o argue_v from_o they_o and_o their_o time_n unto_o ourselves_o and_o our_o time_n if_o mr._n rutherford_n know_v we_o have_v give_v any_o such_o difference_n as_o will_v not_o suffer_v we_o thus_o to_o argue_v when_o he_o shall_v express_v the_o same_o we_o may_v consider_v further_o thereof_o our_o brethren_n grant_v pag._n 49._o that_o it_o want_v all_o example_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n that_o the_o people_n lie_v on_o hand_n answ_n and_o we_o have_v also_o in_o the_o same_o pag._n 49._o render_v the_o reason_n hereof_o viz._n because_o elder_n then_o be_v not_o want_v why_o then_o do_v not_o our_o brother_n ingenuity_n so_o far_o prevail_v with_o he_o as_o to_o mention_v this_o when_o he_o mention_v the_o other_o however_o yet_o this_o he_o may_v be_v please_v to_o observe_v that_o as_o we_o grant_v the_o thing_n he_o speak_v of_o so_o themselves_o i_o think_v must_v grant_v also_o that_o it_o want_v all_o example_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n where_o ordinary_a elder_n do_v impose_v hand_n on_o ordinary_a elder_n for_o my_o part_n i_o remember_v none_o nor_o do_v i_o remember_v that_o themselves_o have_v yet_o produce_v any_o these_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n on_o the_o levite_n numb_a 8._o be_v elder_n and_o our_o brethren_n say_v it_o be_v like_a they_o be_v but_o 1._o they_o do_v not_o as_o elder_n 2._o but_o as_o represent_v the_o people_n not_o as_o elder_n civil_a for_o that_o belong_v to_o aaron_n and_o his_o son_n levit._n 8._o else_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o where_o a_o church_n have_v no_o magistrate_n to_o lay_v on_o hand_n there_o the_o church_n may_v do_v it_o nor_o do_v they_o lie_v on_o hand_n as_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n because_o what_o these_o which_o lay_v on_o hand_n do_v they_o do_v as_o from_o the_o congregation_n for_o 1._o these_o levite_n be_v take_v in_o stead_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v of_o israel_n and_o not_o instead_o of_o the_o first_o bear_v of_o the_o elder_n only_o numb_a 3._o 40_o 41._o 2_o they_o be_v present_v to_o the_o lord_n as_o a_o offering_n of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n not_o of_o the_o elder_n only_o 3._o when_o the_o multitude_n bring_v a_o oblation_n the_o elder_n put_v their_o hand_n on_o the_o head_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n levit._n 4._o 15._o instead_o of_o all_o the_o multitude_n answ_n in_o relate_v this_o passage_n our_o meaning_n be_v exceed_o mistake_v and_o both_o our_o meaning_n and_o our_o word_n represent_v far_o amiss_o unto_o the_o reader_n the_o particular_n which_o in_o this_o respect_n may_v be_v except_v against_o be_v such_o as_o these_o 1._o that_o report_v we_o to_o say_v it_o be_v like_a they_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n be_v elder_n he_o there_o break_v off_o the_o speech_n and_o so_o suppress_v that_o which_o follow_v wherein_o we_o first_o of_o all_o do_v give_v a_o explication_n in_o what_o respect_n they_o may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v elder_n viz._n as_o be_v the_o chief_a and_o principal_a member_n of_o the_o congregation_n and_o next_o of_o all_o we_o do_v add_v that_o nevertheless_o therein_o example_n do_v prove_v the_o point_n if_o two_o thing_n be_v consider_v which_o there_o we_o do_v express_v but_o both_o these_o particular_n i_o mean_v both_o the_o explication_n and_o the_o addition_n or_o exception_n be_v whole_o suppress_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n and_o so_o the_o concession_n it_o be_v like_a they_o be_v elder_n be_v leave_v stand_v alone_o by_o itself_o 2._o he_o report_v we_o to_o say_v they_o do_v it_o not_o as_o elder_n civil_a for_o that_o belong_v to_o aaron_n and_o his_o son_n wherein_o he_o father_n on_o we_o a_o palpable_a error_n of_o account_v aaron_n and_o his_o son_n to_o be_v elder_n civil_a or_o magistrate_n which_o never_o come_v into_o our_o thought_n nay_o it_o be_v so_o far_o from_o we_o that_o we_o plain_o say_v the_o contrary_a in_o that_o very_a place_n to_o wit_n that_o they_o be_v elder_n ecclesiastical_a our_o word_n be_v these_o if_o they_o that_o be_v the_o child_n of_o israel_n do_v it_o as_o elder_n then_o either_o as_o elder_n and_o governor_n ecclesiastical_a or_o as_o civil_a governor_n but_o not_o the_o first_o for_o that_o charge_n belong_v to_o aaron_n and_o his_o son_n levit._fw-la 8._o and_o these_o levite_n now_o ordain_v in_o which_o word_n we_o plain_o ascribe_v to_o aaron_n and_o his_o son_n the_o charge_n of_o elder_n and_o governor_n ecclesiastical_a but_o not_o of_o civil_a governor_n as_o mr._n rutherford_n be_v please_v to_o report_v 3._o in_o these_o word_n else_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o where_o a_o church_n have_v no_o magistrate_n to_o lay_v on_o hand_n there_o the_o church_n may_v do_v it_o our_o word_n be_v so_o miserable_o mangle_v that_o no_o tolerable_a sense_n can_v appear_v for_o here_o be_v express_v a_o inference_n or_o consequence_n that_o must_v follow_v and_o yet_o no_o ground_n or_o antecedent_n at_o all_o from_o which_o it_o shall_v follow_v which_o be_v to_o represent_v we_o to_o the_o world_n as_o man_n that_o be_v loesi_fw-la cerebro_fw-la for_o man_n that_o be_v in_o their_o right_a wit_n i_o conceive_v will_v scarce_o ever_o argue_v in_o this_o fashion_n as_o here_o we_o be_v report_v to_o do_v but_o our_o word_n be_v these_o if_o the_o second_o be_v say_v viz._n that_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n do_v lay_v on_o hand_n as_o civil_a governor_n than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o civil_a magistrate_n though_o no_o church-officer_n may_v impose_v hand_n in_o ordination_n of_o church-officer_n and_o so_o the_o point_n be_v gain_v viz._n that_o church-officer_n may_v be_v ordain_v by_o those_o that_o be_v no_o church-officer_n which_o we_o do_v further_o manifest_v in_o the_o follow_a word_n in_o this_o manner_n if_o the_o magistrate_n may_v do_v it_o than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o a_o church_n that_o have_v no_o magistrate_n may_v perform_v this_o action_n by_o other_o the_o fit_a instrument_n she_o have_v for_o which_o we_o there_o give_v this_o ground_n for_o that_o this_o be_v not_o a_o work_n proper_o tie_v to_o the_o magistrate_n office_n because_o then_o the_o church_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n want_v magistrate_n can_v not_o have_v have_v officer_n the_o contrary_a whereof_o we_o say_v be_v manifest_a in_o the_o scripture_n act._n 14._o 13._o tit._n 1._o 5._o this_o be_v our_o manner_n of_o argue_v in_o the_o place_n allege_v which_o be_v far_o different_a from_o that_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n report_v as_o we_o 4._o whereas_o he_o report_v we_o to_o say_v nor_o do_v they_o lie_v on_o hand_n as_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n because_o what_o these_o which_o lie_v on_o hand_n do_v they_o do_v as_o from_o the_o congregation_n in_o this_o he_o also_o report_v we_o to_o speak_v quite_o beside_o our_o plain_a meaning_n and_o express_v word_n for_o whereas_o he_o so_o set_v down_o this_o sentence_n as_o that_o the_o latter_a clause_n or_o branch_n therein_o be_v make_v the_o reason_n of_o the_o former_a the_o truth_n be_v this_o that_o these_o clause_n in_o the_o answer_n have_v no_o dependence_n the_o one_o upon_o the_o other_o at_o all_o but_o the_o former_a have_v another_o reason_n give_v for_o it_o which_o here_o be_v not_o mention_v and_o the_o latter_a which_o be_v here_o mention_v as_o the_o reason_n of_o the_o former_a be_v not_o so_o mention_v by_o we_o but_o for_o another_o end_n and_o purpose_n touch_v the_o former_a of_o these_o two_o when_o we_o say_v that_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n do_v not_o impose_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n as_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n the_o reason_n we_o give_v for_o this_o say_n be_v this_o because_o that_o charge_n be_v only_o belong_v to_o aaron_n
and_o his_o son_n and_o those_o levite_n now_o ordain_v which_o reason_n mr._n rutherford_n never_o mention_n but_o mention_n another_o speech_n as_o our_o reason_n which_o be_v deliver_v by_o we_o for_o another_o purpose_n the_o like_a measure_n do_v he_o afford_v to_o we_o in_o the_o second_o branch_n of_o the_o sentence_n by_o he_o express_v for_o whereas_o we_o give_v two_o reason_n of_o the_o main_a thing_n in_o question_n that_o this_o example_n of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n impose_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n do_v prove_v that_o in_o some_o case_n non-officer_n may_v impose_v hand_n upon_o church_n officer_n the_o one_o because_o what_o these_o child_n of_o israel_n do_v they_o do_v it_o not_o as_o elder_n the_o other_o that_o what_o they_o do_v they_o do_v it_o not_o for_o themselves_o alone_o but_o for_o all_o the_o congregation_n mr._n rutherford_n apply_v not_o these_o two_o reason_n to_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n as_o they_o be_v apply_v by_o we_o but_o instead_o thereof_o make_v one_o of_o they_o to_o be_v a_o reason_n of_o the_o other_o which_o be_v no_o part_n of_o our_o meaning_n nor_o can_v just_o be_v gather_v from_o our_o word_n this_o be_v say_v for_o clear_v this_o passage_n of_o we_o from_o his_o manifold_a mistake_n let_v we_o now_o hear_v his_o answer_n pag._n 49â—_n these_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n do_v it_o as_o a_o work_n peculiar_a to_o the_o elder_n because_o the_o elder_n be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v who_o by_o office_n be_v elder_n and_o in_o who_o stead_n the_o levite_n be_v assume_v numb_a 3._o 40_o 41._o answ_n if_o the_o elder_n be_v but_o a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v then_o how_o can_v all_o the_o first_o bear_v be_v elder_n by_o office_n or_o if_o all_o the_o first_o bear_v be_v by_o office_n elder_n then_o how_o can_v the_o elder_n be_v but_o a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v these_o thing_n seem_v not_o to_o be_v here_o but_o be_v it_o so_o that_o the_o elder_n be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v as_o here_o be_v affirm_v how_o do_v this_o prove_v that_o they_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n do_v it_o as_o a_o work_n peculiar_a to_o the_o elder_n be_v there_o any_o necessary_a or_o clear_a consequence_n in_o such_o a_o proposition_n for_o my_o part_n i_o see_v it_o not_o but_o on_o the_o contrary_a i_o suppose_v it_o be_v certain_a that_o the_o elder_n may_v be_v part_n or_o all_o of_o the_o first_o bear_v and_o yet_o they_o who_o do_v the_o work_n of_o impose_v hand_n may_v neither_o impose_v as_o elder_n nor_o of_o necessity_n be_v elder_n though_o in_o the_o sense_n express_v in_o the_o answer_n i_o will_v not_o deny_v but_o there_o may_v be_v elder_n that_o be_v chief_a and_o principal_a member_n of_o the_o congregation_n but_o if_o this_o be_v grant_v in_o the_o sense_n express_v must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o they_o impose_v hand_n as_o elder_n and_o as_o elder_n by_o office_n too_o can_v a_o man_n sustain_v no_o relation_n but_o all_o his_o action_n must_v be_v action_n of_o that_o relation_n can_v a_o man_n be_v a_o husband_n or_o a_o parent_n etc._n etc._n but_o his_o action_n of_o plough_v sow_v etc._n etc._n must_v needs_o be_v perform_v by_o he_o as_o he_o be_v a_o husband_n or_o parent_n can_v a_o minister_n pray_v in_o his_o family_n instruct_v his_o child_n or_o receive_v the_o bread_n and_o wine_n in_o the_o lord_n supper_n in_o the_o congregation_n but_o all_o these_o thing_n must_v be_v perform_v by_o he_o as_o a_o minister_n i_o suppose_v that_o none_o will_v say_v that_o this_o do_v follow_v and_o if_o not_o then_o suppose_v that_o these_o who_o impose_v hand_n be_v elder_n how_o do_v it_o follow_v that_o when_o they_o impose_v hand_n they_o do_v impose_v as_o elder_n else_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n be_v a_o constitute_v church_n before_o this_o time_n want_v officer_n which_o be_v against_o all_o truth_n answ_n else_o else_o what_o let_v the_o antecedent_n or_o ground_n of_o this_o inference_n be_v take_v from_o the_o word_n precede_v or_o from_o any_o of_o they_o and_o whence_o else_o to_o take_v it_o i_o can_v tell_v and_o no_o necessity_n of_o consequence_n i_o think_v will_v appear_v the_o word_n precede_v be_v no_o more_o but_o these_o these_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n do_v it_o as_o a_o work_n peculiar_a to_o the_o elder_n because_o the_o elder_n be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v who_o by_o office_n be_v elder_n and_o in_o who_o steed_n the_o levite_n be_v assume_v and_o then_o come_v in_o this_o inference_n else_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n want_v officer_n now_o how_o this_o must_v needs_o follow_v upon_o any_o or_o all_o of_o those_o precede_a i_o see_v not_o not_o that_o i_o deny_v the_o truth_n of_o all_o those_o precede_a word_n for_o of_o some_o of_o they_o i_o think_v otherwise_o but_o suppose_v that_o be_v all_o true_a which_o be_v more_o than_o do_v yet_o appear_v yet_o here_o be_v that_o which_o i_o be_o doubtful_a in_o whether_o this_o inference_n must_v needs_o follow_v upon_o the_o same_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v the_o church_n of_o israel_n may_v have_v officer_n and_o yet_o the_o particular_n here_o mention_v not_o be_v all_o true_a but_o some_o of_o they_o false_a notwithstanding_o at_o least_o wise_a if_o they_o be_v true_a yet_o the_o reason_n here_o use_v will_v not_o infer_v so_o much_o for_o to_o consider_v a_o little_a of_o the_o particular_n the_o church_n of_o israel_n have_v officer_n ergo_fw-la the_o elder_n be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v which_o be_v one_o of_o the_o particular_n the_o church_n of_o israel_n have_v officer_n ergo_fw-la the_o first_o bear_v be_v elder_n by_o office_n which_o be_v another_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n have_v officer_n ergo_fw-la the_o levite_n be_v assume_v instead_o of_o the_o first_o bear_v which_o be_v another_o of_o they_o be_v there_o any_o necessity_n of_o consequence_n in_o any_o of_o these_o for_o my_o part_n i_o see_v it_o not_o but_o suppose_v they_o be_v in_o themselves_o true_a yet_o the_o medium_n here_o use_v do_v not_o prove_v they_o so_o to_o be_v and_o for_o that_o which_o be_v the_o first_o and_o as_o i_o conceive_v the_o chief_n to_o wit_n that_o these_o who_o impose_v hand_n do_v it_o as_o a_o work_n peculiar_a to_o elder_n must_v this_o need_v be_v grant_v if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n be_v not_o without_o officer_n i_o see_v no_o necessity_n of_o grant_v this_o neither_o but_o the_o contrary_a to_o i_o seem_v possible_a enough_o that_o thou_o may_v be_v officer_n afore_o this_o time_n in_o that_o church_n and_o yet_o what_o be_v now_o do_v by_o they_o who_o impose_v hand_n not_o be_v do_v by_o they_o as_o elder_n by_o office_n but_o as_o prime_n and_o principal_a member_n of_o the_o congregation_n for_o the_o clear_n whereof_o a_o little_a further_o we_o may_v observe_v that_o they_o who_o impose_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n be_v not_o here_o call_v elder_n nor_o ruler_n nor_o officer_n nor_o first_o bear_v nor_o any_o such_o like_a but_o the_o term_n whereby_o they_o be_v express_v be_v this_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n the_o child_n of_o israel_n say_v the_o lord_n shall_v put_v their_o hand_n upon_o the_o levite_n numb_a 8._o 10._o now_o this_o term_n be_v use_v in_o the_o 9_o verse_n immediate_o precede_v and_o in_o the_o 11._o vers_fw-la immediate_o follow_v yet_o in_o neither_o of_o both_o can_v it_o be_v mean_v of_o elder_n and_o officer_n alone_o but_o in_o both_o verse_n be_v undoubted_o mean_v of_o all_o the_o body_n of_o the_o congregation_n and_o therefore_o if_o the_o context_n and_o circumstance_n of_o the_o place_n be_v regard_v these_o child_n of_o israel_n who_o impose_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n v_o 10._o can_v in_o that_o act_n be_v consider_v under_o the_o notâ—on_n of_o officer_n sure_o it_o be_v when_o the_o verse_n before_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o whole_a assembly_n of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n must_v be_v gather_v together_o and_o the_o verse_n follow_v tell_v we_o that_o aaron_n must_v offer_v the_o levite_n for_o a_o offering_n of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n in_o neither_o of_o these_o can_v the_o child_n of_o israel_n be_v understand_v of_o the_o officer_n alone_o but_o the_o whole_a congregation_n be_v mean_v hereby_o in_o both_o verse_n reason_n therefore_o require_v that_o this_o ten_o verse_n stand_v in_o the_o midst_n between_o the_o other_o two_o the_o word_n child_n of_o israel_n be_v use_v therein_o shall_v be_v take_v in_o the_o same_o sense_n in_o this_o verse_n in_o which_o it_o be_v take_v in_o the_o verse_n before_o and_o in_o the_o verse_n that_o come_v after_o nay_o and_o further_o he_o that_o shall_v
make_v good_a what_o our_o brethren_n say_v that_o therefore_o they_o may_v judge_v of_o a_o minister_n fitness_n answ_n that_o which_o we_o say_v in_o this_o answ_n pag._n 51._o there_o must_v be_v some_o ability_n to_o discern_v whether_o man_n be_v qualify_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n afore_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v elect_v and_o choose_v into_o office_n and_o the_o people_n of_o god_n have_v so_o much_o ability_n as_o be_v of_o necessity_n require_v afore_o there_o be_v precede_v unto_o ordination_n wherein_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o our_o argue_v be_v from_o the_o people_n ability_n to_o discern_v of_o man_n fitness_n afore_o they_o be_v elect_v to_o their_o like_a ability_n to_o discern_v of_o their_o fitness_n afore_o they_o be_v ordain_v they_o who_o have_v so_o much_o as_o to_o discern_v who_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v ordain_v but_o the_o people_n of_o god_n may_v have_v the_o former_a ergo_fw-la they_o may_v have_v the_o latter_a now_o what_o say_v mr._n rutherford_n hereunto_o the_o assumption_n he_o deny_v not_o but_o in_o plain_a word_n grant_v it_o say_v they_o may_v as_o christ_n sheep_n joh._n 10._o discern_v christ_n voice_n and_o so_o have_v a_o power_n of_o election_n of_o their_o own_o pastor_n it_o must_v then_o be_v the_o consequence_n that_o must_v be_v deny_v or_o the_o conclusion_n must_v be_v yield_v what_o then_o bring_v he_o to_o overthrow_v the_o consequence_n nothing_o but_o this_o that_o there_o be_v a_o two_o fold_v knowledge_n one_o of_o christian_n not_o deny_v to_o woman_n and_o believe_a child_n who_o can_v lay_v on_o hand_n nor_o ordain_v miâ—isters_n as_o the_o presbytery_n do_v but_o what_o the_o other_o knowledge_n be_v he_o do_v not_o plain_o tell_v except_o any_o thing_n may_v be_v gather_v from_o the_o word_n follow_v where_o he_o say_v but_o for_o try_v of_o minister_n if_o they_o be_v the_o son_n of_o the_o prophet_n apt_a to_o teach_v able_a to_o convince_v the_o subtle_a heretic_n and_o gainsayer_n and_o to_o put_v they_o to_o silence_n there_o must_v be_v in_o a_o constitute_v church_n a_o college_n of_o pastor_n and_o prophet_n to_o try_v the_o prophet_n with_o a_o presbyterial_a cognizance_n answ_n but_o if_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v have_v speak_v to_o the_o point_n he_o shall_v have_v give_v some_o reason_n why_o the_o people_n may_v discern_v a_o man_n fitness_n for_o election_n and_o yet_o not_o discern_v his_o fitness_n for_o ordination_n for_o this_o be_v the_o consequence_n of_o our_o argument_n which_o he_o deny_v but_o in_o all_o that_o be_v here_o say_v about_o a_o two_o fold_v knowledge_n one_o of_o christian_n and_o the_o other_o of_o some_o body_n else_o what_o be_v there_o in_o all_o this_o that_o have_v so_o much_o as_o the_o least_o show_n of_o overthrow_v or_o weaken_v the_o consequence_n suâ—e_o nothing_o at_o all_o that_o i_o can_v find_v for_o as_o for_o that_o which_o be_v intimate_v that_o christian_n have_v not_o so_o much_o knowledge_n as_o to_o try_v minister_n whether_o they_o be_v apt_a to_o teach_v etc._n etc._n this_o make_v nothing_o to_o the_o point_n in_o hand_n that_o they_o can_v discern_v whether_o a_o man_n be_v fit_a to_o be_v elect_v but_o not_o discern_v whether_o he_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v ordain_v but_o if_o it_o have_v any_o strength_n in_o it_o at_o all_o it_o be_v as_o much_o against_o the_o ability_n of_o the_o people_n which_o he_o express_o grant_v as_o against_o that_o which_o he_o will_v deny_v as_o much_o against_o their_o ability_n of_o discern_v his_o fitness_n for_o ordination_n and_o therefore_o how_o this_o shall_v overthrow_v the_o one_o and_o not_o the_o other_o i_o do_v not_o know_v for_o to_o any_o man_n understanding_n it_o make_v no_o more_o against_o the_o one_o then_o against_o the_o other_o but_o either_o against_o both_o which_o he_o will_v not_o grant_v or_o else_o against_o neither_o which_o i_o conceive_v be_v the_o very_a truth_n to_o argue_v in_o this_o sort_n they_o have_v not_o ability_n to_o convince_v 〈◊〉_d heretic_n ergo_fw-la they_o may_v not_o choose_v their_o minister_n this_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v not_o own_o for_o he_o plain_o grant_v they_o may_v choose_v and_o therefore_o how_o can_v this_o argue_v be_v good_a they_o want_v ability_n to_o convince_v heretic_n ergo_fw-la they_o may_v not_o impose_v hand_n in_o ordination_n how_o the_o one_o kind_n of_o reason_v can_v be_v better_o than_o the_o other_o i_o do_v not_o know_v except_o we_o will_v say_v some_o may_v be_v lawful_o elect_v and_o choose_v to_o the_o ministry_n who_o can_v lawful_o be_v ordain_v but_o this_o i_o suppose_v can_v be_v say_v with_o truth_n chap._n xxvi_o whether_o the_o epistle_n to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n wherein_o there_o be_v contain_v rule_n of_o direction_n in_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n do_v prove_v that_o the_o action_n may_v not_o in_o any_o case_n be_v perform_v by_o non-officer_n but_o must_v be_v perform_v only_o by_o presbyter_n and_o whether_o the_o argument_n do_v not_o make_v as_o strong_o for_o the_o appropriate_a of_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n to_o the_o prelate_n as_o to_o the_o presbyter_n and_o do_v not_o as_o well_o exclude_v the_o presbyter_n from_o meddle_v therein_o as_o exclude_v the_o people_n there_o be_v only_o one_o place_n more_o where_o i_o find_v mr._n rutherford_n except_v against_o the_o answer_n and_o that_o be_v in_o his_o pag._n 497._o where_o allege_v the_o answer_n pag._n 59_o which_o i_o conceive_v be_v misprint_v for_o pag._n 49._o he_o set_v down_o these_o word_n as_o we_o viz._n if_o people_n may_v not_o meddle_v with_o ordination_n because_o it_o be_v proper_a to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n this_o may_v prove_v that_o they_o be_v bishop_n who_o do_v ordain_v elder_n there_o alone_o which_o minister_n may_v not_o do_v there_o for_o these_o epistle_n be_v not_o write_v to_o they_o as_o bishop_n alone_o nor_o as_o elder_n alone_o but_o as_o to_o a_o mix_a state_n include_v the_o people_n answ_n the_o order_n of_o the_o dispute_n be_v this_o reverend_a mr._n herle_n argue_v for_o ordination_n of_o officer_n by_o a_o consociate_v eldership_n and_o not_o by_o a_o single_a congregation_n with_o or_o without_o a_o pastor_n bring_v this_o reason_n for_o his_o judgement_n viz._n rule_n of_o direction_n how_o to_o proceed_v in_o ordination_n and_o the_o epistle_n where_o those_o rule_n be_v lay_v down_o be_v not_o write_v to_o the_o church_n or_o congregation_n but_o to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n in_o answer_v whereunto_o we_o speak_v to_o this_o purpose_n that_o if_o this_o be_v a_o sufficient_a reason_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o people_n may_v not_o in_o any_o case_n meddle_v with_o ordination_n then_o by_o as_o good_a reason_n it_o will_v follow_v that_o ordination_n belong_v not_o to_o the_o presbytery_n or_o synod_n but_o only_o to_o one_o man_n as_o the_o prelate_n will_v have_v it_o the_o reason_n we_o give_v be_v because_o timothy_n and_o titus_n be_v each_o of_o they_o but_o only_o one_o man_n and_o we_o there_o further_o say_v that_o we_o do_v approve_v the_o answer_n give_v to_o this_o kind_n of_o reason_v by_o the_o refuter_fw-la of_o dr._n downâ—â—s_n sermon_n at_o lâ—â—beth_n who_o show_v that_o what_o be_v write_v in_o those_o epistle_n be_v not_o only_o write_v for_o timothy_n and_o titus_n but_o for_o other_o minister_n also_o and_o also_o in_o some_o sort_n for_o all_o the_o saint_n and_o that_o therefore_o there_o be_v no_o more_o reason_n to_o appropriate_v those_o rule_n only_o to_o the_o use_n of_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n then_o only_o to_o the_o use_n of_o prelate_n now_o what_o say_v mr._n rutherford_n to_o this_o some_o parcel_n of_o these_o 〈◊〉_d be_v write_v say_v he_o to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n as_o evangeliâ—ts_n something_o be_v be_v write_v to_o they_o as_o christian_n and_o finaditer_n &_o objective_n all_o be_v write_v for_o the_o church_n good_a but_o the_o bulk_n of_o the_o epistle_n be_v write_v to_o they_o as_o elder_n and_o especial_o 1_o tim._n 5._o 22._o 2_o tim._n 2._o 2._o for_o these_o and_o the_o like_a they_o be_v to_o do_v with_o the_o presbytery_n as_o be_v clear_a 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o answ_n this_o scripture_n 1_o tim._n 4._o do_v show_v that_o timothy_n have_v a_o gift_n give_v he_o by_o prophecy_n with_o the_o lay_n on_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o presbytery_n but_o how_o do_v it_o hence_o appear_v that_o not_o only_a timothy_n but_o titus_n also_o be_v to_o dothing_n with_o the_o presbytery_n titus_n be_v not_o at_o all_o mention_v in_o that_o scripture_n and_o as_o for_o timothy_n scripture_n tell_v what_o the_o presbytery_n do_v to_o he_o but_o what_o he_o must_v do_v with_o the_o presbytery_n it_o tell_v we_o nothing_o at_o all_o again_o if_o the_o bulk_n of_o the_o epistle_n be_v write_v to_o they_o as_o elder_n and_o the_o church_n be_v no_o otherwise_o concern_v therein_o but_o only_o finaliter_fw-la and_o objective_o the_o epistle_n be_v write_v for_o their_o good_a then_o what_o shall_v be_v the_o meaning_n and_o reason_n of_o these_o word_n in_o the_o conclusion_n of_o the_o epistle_n to_o titus_n and_o of_o the_o latter_a to_o timothy_n where_o it_o be_v say_v grace_n be_v with_o you_o and_o grace_n be_v with_o you_o all_o do_v it_o not_o plain_o appear_v hereby_o that_o more_o than_o elder_n even_o all_o the_o saint_n in_o those_o place_n be_v write_v unto_o in_o those_o epistle_n three_o if_o there_o be_v rule_n in_o the_o epistle_n that_o do_v belong_v to_o elder_n alone_o yet_o since_o it_o be_v confess_v and_o may_v not_o be_v deny_v that_o other_o thing_n therein_o do_v concern_v all_o christian_n how_o shall_v we_o be_v assure_v that_o such_o passage_n as_o concern_v â—aying_v on_o of_o hand_n be_v of_o the_o former_a sort_n and_o not_o of_o the_o latter_a for_o to_o say_v it_o be_v so_o and_o it_o be_v clear_a we_o think_v do_v not_o clear_v it_o at_o all_o unless_o some_o further_a proof_n be_v add_v last_o if_o all_o this_o be_v grant_v which_o here_o be_v say_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n yet_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v our_o answer_n be_v not_o remove_v thereby_o but_o still_o stand_v fair_a and_o good_a for_o in_o that_o place_n of_o the_o answer_n allege_v we_o say_v two_o thing_n 1._o that_o these_o rule_n about_o ordination_n in_o timothy_n and_o titus_n may_v with_o as_o fair_a a_o colour_n be_v appropriate_v to_o one_o man_n as_o to_z presbytery_n and_o synod_n 2._o that_o the_o epistle_n and_o the_o rule_v therein_o be_v not_o to_o be_v appropriate_v to_o bishop_n alone_o or_o minister_n alone_o but_o be_v indeed_o of_o general_a concernment_n for_o all_o the_o christian_n now_o neither_o of_o these_o two_o be_v discover_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n for_o as_o for_o the_o former_a of_o they_o he_o say_v nothing_o thereto_o at_o all_o and_o the_o latter_a he_o do_v in_o a_o manner_n grant_v not_o only_o by_o say_v that_o all_o here_o be_v write_v for_o the_o church_n good_a but_o also_o by_o say_v that_o something_n be_v write_v to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n as_o christian_n which_o be_v in_o effect_n the_o same_o that_o we_o have_v say_v before_o and_o how_o our_o answer_n can_v be_v disprove_v or_o satisfy_v either_o by_o say_v nothing_o at_o all_o thereto_o or_o by_o say_v the_o same_o that_o we_o have_v say_v before_o i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o judicious_a reader_n to_o consider_v finis_fw-la