Was it possible such Bishops should reforme abroad what they practised and countenanced at home In those drowsie illiterate and Apostaticall times John 22. broached his damnable heresies And in those times in all probability were those strange doctrines hatched and many of those abuses induced we now protest against Somewhere then the Church was visible when invisible at Rome And occasion is given us to presume that in this very Island it was visible since Erasmus professeth that in all his travels he found learned Bishops in England onely And for many yeers we know the Greek Church had small correspondence or communion with the Latines and yet a visible Church for all this Neither can I doubt but in other countries even in Italy there were some learned Bishops that knew the Canons of the Church and full well understood that (a) Conc. Ephes can 1. heresie discharges not onely the Bishop from his Metropolitan but (b) Ib. can 3. the Clark from subjection to his Bishop The Church of Rome then must pardon us if we withdrew our selves from her Bishops when they fell into Apostasie or heresie And all good men will acquit us for reforming abuses at home according to our duty We have good warrant for what we doe even the authority of the whole Church representative Sir I have done If you be offended that I have stirred too much in these loathsome puddles consider I beseech you that you set me upon this unpleasing â—ask What I have done was at your desire and according to your directions Christ knows I have no private or by end in these my writings it is your satisfaction and salvation which I desire and endeavour God of his mercy give a blessing to these my labours and to you an humble and discerning spirit that you may see the truth and embrace it So prayes Your unworthy friend Edward Boughen Ab adversario mota quaestio discendi existit occasio Aug. de Civit. Dei l. 16. c. 2. Where was our Church before Luther It was just there where yours is now One and the same Church still no doubt of that One in substance but not one in condition of state and purity your part of the same Church remaining in corruption and our part of the same Church under reformation The same Naaman and he a Syrian still but leprous with you and cleansed with us The same man still Archbishop Lawd Ep. Ded. § Now one thing For Edward Boughen Doctor in Divinity These are SIR I. YOur papers I received some moneths since and for your great pains therein I humbly thank you The effect of them is this viz. a Resolution that there can be no Church shewed through the whole world for many hundred years before Luther but the Church of Rome and those in her communion for if there could I presume your learning is such you would have known it and your charity such that being desired you would have shewed it me II. My originall doubt was that sith the Catholick Church must be alway visible and that I could not by my best enquiry finde that a succession of men professing the doctrine of the Church of England had been alway visible that that Church was not the nor any part of the Catholick Church To this doubt at our conference you endevoured my satisfaction by attempting to prove that though the Church of England had not been alway visible at least not seen yet seeing she is but a member of the Catholick Church of which the Church of Rome is another it was sufficient that the Catholick Church had been alway visible in the Church of Rome and other particular Churches though not in the Church of England III. That discourse then did give me no satisfaction because although you said that the Church of Rome was a member of the Catholick yet the 19 th Article of your Church sayes That the visible Church of Christ is a Congregation of faithfull men in the which the pure Word of God is preached and the Sacraments be duly administred according to Christs ordinance in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same And in divers other your Articles your Church condemnes the Church of Rome for not preaching the pure Word of God As in the 22 th concerning Purgatory Pardons Worshipping of Images and Reliques and Invocation of Saints And in the 24 th concerning the Publick prayers in the Church and the ministring of the Sacraments in a tongue not understood of the people In the 31 th concerning the Sacrifice of the Masse for quick and dead which that your Article calls blasphemous fables and dangerous deceits IV. And for not duly administring the Sacraments In the 30 th Article you say The Cup of the Lord is not to be denied to Lay-people For both the parts of the Lords Sacraments by Christs ordinance and commandement ought to be administred to all Christian men alike So then by the Articles of your Church the Church of Rome doth neither preach the pure Word of God nor duly administer the Sacraments and that in those things that are of necessity requisite for the same as appeares by your separation for your beloved * fo 195. or 7. against Fâ—sher Archbish Lawd says it is not lawfull to make a separation for points not necessary And if you say you did not make the separation but the Church of Rome then Luther Tindall c. did not goe out of the Church of Rome but the Church of Rome out of them V. Therefore I had reason still as in my Letter to demand a Church distinct from the Church of Rome and those in her communion of which no man that reads your answer can thereby I think receive satisfaction For the whole drift and scope of your papers is either to prove First that the Church of Rome and those in her communion is not the Catholick Church or else Secondly that the Church of Rome and those in communion with her and the Church of England are but one that is severall members of one Church VI. For the first that the Church of Rome and those in communion with her was not the Catholick Church for that time I required you shew no proof that I doe finde but that some of the Popes have been either Hereticks or Schismaticks which if admitted though it is not to be so in some of them for that time yet it doth not make that whole Church to be Hereticall or Schismaticall For I beleeve you will yeeld that the King of England or Archbishop of Canterbury may be an Heretick or Schismatick and yet the Church of England be still part of the Catholick Church But if it were granted that the Popes of Rome being Schismaticks or Hereticks should annihilate that Church yet that could give me no satisfaction who required not where is not the Catholick Church but where it is that I might communicate with it 2. For the second that the Church of
Temptation not from Religion 10. Thus we are Catholicks and our Church will prove so too We beleeve the holy Catholick Church we professe it is but one (q) Cypr. l. 4. ep 2. A Christo una as St. Cyprian speaks but one of Christs making though divided through all Nations into many members per totum mundum in multa membra divisa (r) Item Episcopatus unus Episcoporum multorum concordi numerositare diffusus Ib. So the Episcopacy is but one under that great (s) 1. S. Pet. 2.25 Bishop of our soules but it is diffused by the numerous consent of many Bishops One Church and one Bishoâ—rick and yet many Bishopricks which are called Churches and (t) Concil Nic. Diatyp 2. every Bishop is head as it were of that Communion or Church which is committed to his charge (u) Tertull. de Praescrip c. 20. These many Churches small or great una est illa ab Apostolis prima ex qua omnes are that one first Apostolicall Church of whom come all (x) Sic omnes primae omnes Apostolicae dum omnes unam probant unitatem Ib. Thus they are all prime all Apostolick while they all approve one unity (y) Ib. c. 32. This unity is by Tertullian placed in Faith and Episcopall succession Hitherto then we are right for those Churches that have this faith and this successive government (z) Ib. non minus Apostolicae deputantur pro consanguinitate doctrinae are equally Apostolick with those very Churches which were planted by the Apostles And in the Councel of Ephesus the appeal is not to the Bishop or Church of Rome for tryall of doctrine but to the (a) Vincent Lirin c. 42. consent of the most famous Catholick Bishops that were before them If Rome be judge the work is short we shall quickly have one Religion setled good or bad But the old rule is this (b) Ib. c. 3. Quod ubique quod semper quod ab omnibus that which hath been beleived in all places at all times by all the Fathers that is truly Catholick and nothing else for ought I know 11. This fully manifests that this Nationall Church is as much Catholick and Apostolick as can be desired And yet I cannot expect that this should work upon you who are obstinately prepossessed against all satisfaction I remember A.C. was not ashamed to publish in print (c) A.C. p. 54. that the Lady whom the two Bishops conferred with did not aske the Question as if she meant to be satisfied with hearing what either of them said And was it not is it not so with you Simon Magus will be the old man say St. Peter what he may And (d) 2. Tim. 3.8 as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses so will your corrupt faction resist the truth come what can 12. But you have reason for what you say and this it is (e) n. 3. Because although I said the Church of Rome was a member of the Catholick yet the 19. Article of our Church sayes that the visible Church of Christ is a Congregation of faithfull men in the which the pure Word of God is preached and the Sacraments be duly administred according to Christs Ordinance in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same What is here to displease you Is not all true Refute it if you can deny it if you have the face (f) Ib. But in divers other Articles our Church condemnes the Church of Rome for not preaching the pure Word of God And that 's it that offends you Sir we undertake not to judge your Church but her doctrine we condemne her errors and yet acknowledge her to be a Church (g) Apoc. 2.13 God blames the Church of Pergamos for enduring the seat of Satan within her Diocese as also (h) Ib. v. 15. for holding that odious doctrine of the Nicolaitans and yet grants her to be a Church such a one as it was St. Paul calls the Corinthians (i) 1 Cor. 1.2 a Church but (k) Ib. v. 11. c. 3. he blames their schismes (l) Ib. c. 5. their carnality (m) Ib. c. 11. their disorders in the Church (n) Ib v. 20 c. their prophaning of the Lords Supper and (o) Ib. c. 15.12 charges them with the heresie of the Sadduces Your errors were crept in among us and shall not we dare to call them errors and to teach our Country-men to avoyd them Foure of these that B. Martyr hath charged you with and proves them to be blasphemous fables and dangerous deceits as I acquainted you § 24. You read and turn over and take no notice of what you read This 't is to be led by other mens eyes and to see no further then your new Masters will give you leave 13. Justly we taxe you Art 30. for maiming the blessed Eucharist and for denying the Cup or Blood of the Lord to Lay men As if our Saviour had not shed it for them as much as for us and had not given it to them as well as to us What is the meaning then of these words (p) St. Mat. 26.27 Drink ye all of this or did not the Church of Christ understand what they did when they gave it to Priest and People And how can I communicate with them that will not suffer me to communicate with Christ according to his own Ordinance who deny me that which Christ hath commanded me to take In denying me the Cup ye admit me by halves in truth ye forbid me the Lords Table I withdraw not my selfe I have proved § 11. that in the judgement of the Catholick Church this Sacrament is to be administred to the Laity in both kinds I shall adde therefore with you that (q) n. 4. the Church of Rome doth neither preach the pure Word of God nor duly administer the Sacraments in those things that are of necessity requisite for the same This appears by our departure or as you name it our separation not from you but from your errors As you are a Church we communicate with you wherein ye are erronious we depart from you And in this we relie not upon our owne judgement but (r) In ipsa vetustate omnium vel certè penè omnium Sacerdotum pariâ—er Magistrorum definitiones sententiasque sectamur Vincent Lirin c. 3. submit to the generall resolution of the ancient Fathers The Jews at Gods command (s) Lev. 13.46 separated the leprous from the sound the clean from the unclean and so doe we Though (t) Num. 12.14 Miriam were Moses owne Sister yet did he withdraw himselfe and the whole Congregation from her while leprous But when she was healed of her foule disease both he and the rest communicated with her Cast off your leprous errors and we are for your communion 14. And whereas you adde that (u) n. 4. Archbishop Lawd says it is not lawfull to make
one or more branches be broken off The fountain flows comfortably though a rivulet be cut off The reason is because (m) Jer. 2.13 Christ and no particular Church is the fountain of living waters (n) 8. Jo. 4.14 that spring up into everlasting life and they that seek to him for this water as they ought shall be sure to have it Or as St. Cyprian speaks the Church is (o) Cypr. de unit Eccles luce Domini perfusa she hath her light not from Rome but from (p) S. Jo. 1.9 that true light which enlightens every man that comes into the world And we shall be no longer (q) S. Mat. 5.14 the light of the world then we are furnished with this light 23. So then since you will needs have it so the time was when there was a necessity for the Catholick Church not onely to be distinct but diverse from the Church of Rome and those in her communion otherwise there had been no Church I shall give you a satisfactory instance When Liberius Bishop of Rome turned Arian to recover liberty and an honorable Bishoprick when all Italy and Spain sided with him in that heresie then was the Catholick distinct from Rome and those in her communion For these if we may beleive (r) Haeretici non pertinent ad Ecclesiam Catholicam Aug. Locut de Deut. l. 5. c. 10. St. Austin and (s) Si Haeretici sunt Christiani esse non possunt Tertul. de Praescript c. 37. Tertullian had no share in the Church they were not so much as Christians because Hereticks St. Hilary of Poictieurs lamented the infamous lapse of this Bishop professing publickly thus (t) Hilar. Pict de Synodis p. 287. Ex eo intra nos tantum communio Dominica continetur from that time forward the Lords communion is continued AMONG US ONELY Onely us And who are these that he clears suddenly after in these words (u) Ib. p. 288. Quidam ex vobis firmissima fidei constantia INTRA COMMUNIONEM SE MEAM CONTINENTES SEACAETERIS EXTRA GALLIAS ABSTINUERUNT Some of you with a most firm constancy of faith containing themselves within my communion abstained from others without France Here then was no communion with Rome unlesse you can prove Rome to be in France and yet I hope a Catholick communion Boast not then too much of the Romane Church Wee see in what state it hath been and into the same state without Gods great mercy it may fall again And when such cause is given it shall be lawfull for us in like manner to hold communion within our selves in the three Britains even in England onely And now I think I have shewed you the Catholick Church distinct from the Church of Rome and those in her communion such a one as would have nothing to doe with Rome while Hereticall 24. I have done with the Propositions your desire remaines which requires a large library and a younger man for your words are these Wherefore I desire to be shewn the Catholick Church distinct from the Church of Rome and those in her communion for the last 1100 years What will no lesse serve the turn then 1100 years and those together what 's the meaning of this I never undertook any such thing neither as I know hath this Church or any of the Fathers thereof said any such thing (x) Art 19. Our Articles acknowledge the Church of Rome to be a Church and call her so But withall we say that (y) Ib. those of her communion have erred not onely in their living and manner of ceremonies but also in matters of faith And this hath been prettily well proved out of your own men So a Church it is though erronious We have never declared her to be no Church neither have our Articles hitherto charged her with Heresie but (z) Art 22. with fond doctrines vainly invented and founded upon no warranty of Scripture Yea something we blame you with (a) Art 29. that is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture Foure opinions of this kind my Lord of Canterbury taxeth you with viz. (b) Archbishop Lawd §. 33. n. 13 1. Transubstantiation 2. The administration of the blessed Sacrament to the Laity in one kind 3. Invocation of Saints and 4. Adoration of Images Ye have not hitherto quitted your selves of this Inditement and while his book stands unconfuted I shall beleeve that ye are justly charged with these unsound and uncatholick doctrines 25. Besides we acknowledge that (c) Art 26. in the visible Church the evill be ever mingled with the good That sometime the evill have chiefe authority in the ministration of the Word and Sacraments These we deny not to be visible members of the Church but grant that (d) Ib. the effect of Christs Ordinance is not taken away by their wickednesse Though these be bad in and to themselves oft-times their calling does good to others like (e) S. Mat. 23.2 c. the Scribes and Pharisees in Moses chaire We are not then so forward to make a separation as ye are taught to beleeve Indeed hardly any but the Church of Rome hath been so touchy as to excommunicate whole Churches upon slight occasions (f) Euseb hist l. 5. c. 24. What a stir did Bishop Victor keep about the observation of Easter He excommunicated divers Churches because they would not stoop to his lure (g) Ib. Verum ista caeteris omnibus parum placebant but this was little pleasing to the rest of the Bishops and among them to that famous Bishop of Lyons Ireneus Who with divers other (h) Victorem graviùs acerbiùs coarguebant Ib. sharply checked and reproved him for it These consider'd that no member can cut off another without mischief to the whole body even to it self And the hand ought not to doe it without a commission from the head For (i) Neque quisquam nostrum Episcopum se esse Episcoporū constituit aut tyrannico terrore ad obsequendi necessitaiem collegas suos adegit Cypr. in Conc. Cart. ag there is no Bishop of Bishops as ye conceive neither may any one Bishop excommunicate another of his own proper authority (k) Apost Can. 34. Cod. Eccles Vnivers Can. 88. This is the work of a Synod of Bishops Whoever does it of his own head offends against the practise of the Church the Canons and Scripture it self 26. Thus also (l) Euseb hist l. 7. c. 4. Bishop Steven though otherwise a good man carried himself very high about re-baptizing Hereticks Whether zeal or that vain conceit of St. Peter's Chair transported him I know not but this I am sure of he excommunicated all those that re-baptized Hereticks But what said that great Bishop of Cappadocia Firmilianus (m) Firmilian apud Cyp. ep 75. Teipsum excidisti noli te fallere mistake not thy self thou Bishop of Rome while thou goest about to cast out others by this
hist l. 3. c. 4. at Alexandria in Sardinia in France and other places all which adhered to the Nicene Creed We know that (d) Evagr. l. 1 c. 9. Eutyches was condemned at Constantinople though his heresie were received at Rome And those heresies which were broached in your beloved City by John 22. were at that time detested in most places of Christendome Thus the Catholick Church was alwayes visible when Rome it selfe failed 30. I have done with your argument and now without offence I shall return it upon you thus I desire to be shewed the body of Christ distinct from his hand or arme And if this cannot be shewed it will necessarily follow that those are the body of Christ or else Christ hath not alwayes had a body This will seem a strange Argument and yet what answer you make the same shall I requite you with For (e) Eph. 1.23 Colos 1.24 the Church is the mysticall body of Christ And (f) 1 Cor. 12.14 his body is not one member but many The whole body is not the hand nor the hand the whole body For (g) Ib. v. 12. as the body is one and hath many members and all the members of that one body being many are one body so also is Christ And so is his Church (h) Ib. v. 13. into which we are baptized So then as St. Chrysostome hath it (i) Chrysost in loc Et multa unum sunt unum est multa these many are one and this one is many many members and yet but one body As they are a body all these are but one but as every one of these are a severall part so they are different No part alone by and of it selfe can make a body the best member wants the concurrence of the rest even skin and haire to make a complete body In this the meanest member bears a part and the best does no more 31. The truth is I may say to you as St. Paul heretofore to the Corinthians (k) 1. Cor. 12.27 Vos estis corpus Christi membra ex parte yee are the body of Christ and members in part or members of a member of the Western Church and ye are no more All Churches throughout the world and yours among the rest are members of the body of Christ of that body which is the Church Catholick And every one of these must doe their parts that belong unto them that the body continue one and that there be no schisme therein For though St. Paul be pleased to call the Corinthians the body of Christ yet as St. Chrysostome observes (l) Chrysost in 1 Cor. 12. that Church alone was not the whole body but the Catholick dispersed through the whole world He saith therefore IN PART or FOR PART that so they may understand themselves to be but pars quaedam some part of that body which is made up of all Churches That so we may endevour not onely to have peace among our selves but with the whole Church throughout the earth since we are all members of this Catholick body God give all of us grace to learn this lesson and to remember that the foot is no lesse a part then the eye and that neither of these alone nor yet both in conjunction can make a body but as they are conjoyned with the rest of the members Content your selves then ye are but membra de membro members in part members of a member ye must be knit to the other parts before ye can grow up into a body Indeed had there been no other but your selves the Church had been utterly extinct when time was not so much as a sound member left 32. Now since you presse so for the last 1100 yeers give me leave to tell you in what state Rome was for a great part of that time you call for (m) Stapleton Relect. cont 1. q. 5. A. 3. From 800 yeers after Christ she hath been foulely stained with all sins almost imaginable Schisme was raised there and maintained with bribery and bloud enough if Platina and Onuphrius speak right (n) Stella in Luc. 22.31 Stella and (o) Almain l. 3. D. 24. q. 1. Almain charge her with heresie And Lira professeth that (p) Lira in Mat. 16. many of the chief therein and the Popes themselves did apostatize from the faith Five he names 1. Zepherinus a Montanist 2. Marcellinus an Idolater 3. Liberius an Arian 4. Vigilius an Eutychian and 5. Honorius a Monothelite (q) Genebrard Chron. l. 4. An. 991. Genebrard tells us of about 50 Popes that did so far degenerate from the virtue of their predecessors that they were Apostatici potius quam Apostolici Apostaticall rather then Apostolicall And yet this must be the onely Catholick Church 33. (r) Aven Annal. Boior l. 5. p. 447. Aventinus complaines that for 450 yeers the Popes of Rome did so trample all things under their feet ut inferos superos in servitutem redegerint that they brought heaven and hell to their beck and made these doe what they pleased And (s) P. de Aliaco de Reform Rom. Eccles tit de Reform Reli. Petrus de Aliaco a Cardinal that was present in the Councel of Constance professeth that in those dayes the Church was come to that passe ut non sit digna regi nisi a reprobis that it was worthy to be governed by none but reprobates This he speaks of that Church you magnifie so much (t) Baro. Annal. Ann. Christi 908. n. 5. Ann. 93 1. n. 1. Baronius confesseth that there was a time when Marozia and her daughter a couple of lewd strumpets disposed of the Popedome for many yeers so that none possessed that Chaire but Boyes Fooles and Knaves complaining that in those dayes Christ lay asleep in the head of the ship Where was then the holy Catholick Church How think you was it then at Rome 34. (u) Alphons de Cast c. Haeres l. 1. c. 4. Alphonsus de Castro testifies that divers Romane Popes were so illiterate that they were wholly unacquainted with Grammar (x) Alvar. Pel. de Planct Eccle. l. 2. Ar. 5. Alvarez Pelagius gives us this account for his time Hodie in Ecclesia deficit spiritus prophetiae that the spirit of Prophesie did so faile the Church that those words were fulfilled 3. Reg. 22. I will goe forth and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his Prophets And yet Baronius professeth that (y) Plane apparet ex arbitrio dependisse Romani Pontificis fidei decreta sancire sancita mutare Baron An. 373 n. 2â— it is plainly evident that it depended upon the Popes pleasure to enact Decrees of faith and to reverse those that were enacted Was not here a Church well governed there while (z) Quomodo possunt integritati continentiae praeesse si ex ipsis incipiant corruptelae vitiorum magisteria proced re Cypr. l. 1. ep 11.
a separation for points not necessary I freely subscribe to what he says But withall he tells us that (x) Archbishop Lawd §. 23. In the Church of Rome there are errors in Doctrine and some of them such as most manifestly endanger salvation And I hope it is lawfull to separate from these especially since your most able friends grant that (y) A. C. p. 56. Error in the doctrine of Faith is a just cause of Separation But the same Bishop hath proved that (z) Archbishop Lawd §. 33. n. 13. the Church of Rome hath erred in the doctrine of Faith and dangerously too in severall particulars In those his words then which you mention he touches not us but you not us who are separated passively but your Church which hath actually actively separated and excommunicated us for points not necessary not to be endured in an Orthodoxe Church Thus the cause the fault rests upon you not upon us 15. Whereas then you tell us (a) n. 4. If we say we did not make the Separation but the Church of Rome then Luther Tindall c. did not goe out of the Church of Rome but the Church of Rome out of them What consequence is this or what is this to us What Tindall did I know not neither does it concern us What Luther did I know if the History of the Councel of Trent misguide me not He humbly acquainted you with your errors and enormities and desired redresse and for this ye most unchristianly thrust him forth of your communion resolving rather to persevere in error then to amend what was and is amisse For my part I am resolved not to justifie any man or act against the consent and rules of the ancient Church But our Reformation was legall and canonicall as is fully proved § 20.21 We went not out of the Church to make a Reformation but this we did in the Church according to the laudable customes and canons of the ancient Church And whoever condemnes us for this he condemnes himselfe of grosse ignorance or malice I may justly therefore say with Moses (b) Num. 16.7 Ye take too much upon you ye sons of Levi Ye men of Rome ye transgresse the 92. 165. canons of the Catholick Church by medling beyond your bounds as also by imposing upon us and other Countreys the Creed of Pius Quartus which is contrary to the 177. Canon of the same Code 16. Yet as if no satisfaction were given to your demands you proceed thus (c) n. 5. Therefore I had reason still as in my Letter to demand a Church distinct from the Church of Rome and those in her communion of which no man that reads your answer can thereby I think receive satisfaction So you think and some that have read it think otherwise and conceive that I have given full satisfaction to your demands though you be resolved to turn your eares another way For I have demonstrated that when the Church of Rome and those in her communion were no members of the Catholick Church there were at that very time severall Orthodoxe Churches in France § 23. in Asia Sardinia Aegypt and at Constantinople All which at the same instant abhorred those heresies which Rome professed and would have no communion with her or her heresies 17. But say you (d) Ib. the whole drift and scope of my Papers is either to prove First that the Church of Rome and those in her communion is not the Catholick Church Secondly that the Church of Rome and those in communion with her and the Church of England are but one that is severall members of one Church To these in their order For the first you speak truth The Church of Rome and those in her communion is not the Catholick Church this is both said and proved § 12 c. There my minde may be fully seen and till that be disproved I shall adde onely thus much If the Church of Rome be not the Catholick as I affirm and yet the Catholick alwayes visible then was there a Church distinct from the Romane Church when Rome it selfe was not Catholick But there was a time when Rome was not Catholick not Orthodoxe as is proved in my former Papers § 18 23 27 29. 18. Your reply to that which I wrote before is this (e) n. 6. For the first That the Church of Rome and those in communion with her was not the Catholick Church for that time I required you shew no proofe that I doe finde but that some of the Popes have been Hereticks or Schismaticks Proofe then is shewed for this and this I take to be proofe enough For if the head be amisse the whole body is out of tune But the Bishop is (f) Concil Nic. Diatyp 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the head or as the head of that Church whereto he is prefer'd over which he is placed For (g) Episcopus est in Ecclesia Ecclesia in Episcopo Cypr. ep 69. n. 31. as the Bishop is in the Church so is the Church in the Bishop and such as the Bishop is such is the Church presumed to be till it renounce the Bishops errors for h by the Bishop every Church communicates with other Churches Hence it is that at the ordination of a Bishop the Metropolitan or other Bishops of that Province acquaint the Primate therewith and he the other Bishops within his Diocese that so they might know with and by whom they ought to communicate with other Churches This is to be seen in St. Cyprian (i) Cyp. l. 4. ep 8. by the ordination of Cornelius as also (k) Euseb hist l. 7. c. 24. by the deposition of Paulus Samosatenus by the ordination of Domnus into the See of Antioch (l) Ib. This intelligence was given that so they might know to whom to write and from whom to receive Letters of communion 19. That some yea divers of your Popes were Hereticks or Schismaticks is throughly manifested out of your own men § 18 32 c. And while Hereticks (m) Cod. Eccl. Vnivers Can. 171. both themselves and all that side with them are secluded from Ecclesiasticall communion every way (n) Ib. All their Episcopall acts are made void and (o) Ib. Can. 172. those Bishops which adhere to them are to be degraded from their Episcopacy While therefore your Bishops were Hereticall your Church was in an ill case it could not possibly be Catholick when all Episcopall acts were void Is not this a main evidence against you (p) § 23. Some proofe there is also from St. Hilary who professeth that in these Western parts there was in his time no Christian communion but in France This touches not onely the Bishop but the whole Church of Rome and all that adhered to him or that 20. For all this as if it were doubtfull whether your Bishops were such you adjoin (q) n. 6. Which if admitted though it is not to
be so in some of them for that time yet it doth not make that whole Church to be Hereticall or Schismaticall Sir though not admitted by you and your Masters yet it is acknowledged by your own learned men Lyra Stella Almain Platina Onuphrius and others that some of your Bishops have been Hereticall and some Schismaticall And that not for a small time as you seem to imply but for many generations (r) Aventin Annal. Boior l. 5. p. 447. for 450 yeers together they were an infamie to their Order as Aventinus testifies God forbid that I should passe sentence upon every particular person but as a City is rebellious when the Governour and the party prevalent withstand and affront the Prince though many loyall subjects be in that City so when the Bishop and the prevailing part with him fall into heresie that Church is adjudged Hereticall and the denomination is taken from the more eminent and potent faction Thus (s) Socrat. l. 3. c. 29. Sozom. l. 4. c. 10. Rome it selfe was accounted Arian while Bishop Felix communicated with Arians and ordained divers of that persuasion Ministers of that Church And yet blessed be God (t) Theodoret. l. 2. c. 17. Rome at that time had many good people that would not communicate with that Bishop 21. But in the words following it is little lesse then confessed that your Bishops were such as I have related (u) n. 6. For as your next words speak I beleeve you will yeeld that the King of England or Archbishop of Canterbury may be an Heretick or Schismatick and yet the Church of England be still part of the Church Catholick Sir we must distinguish between a professed and close Heretick Those that communicate with a professed Heretick are as he is Hence is it that (x) Theodoret. l. 2. c. 17. Sozom l. 4. c. 10. Felix Bishop of Rome though inwardly Orthodox was adjudged Hereticall for holding communion with the Arians But with a close a concealed Heretick we may communicate and be guiltlesse Thus (y) Act. 8.13 St. Philip communicated a while with Simon Magus (z) 1 Tim. 1.20 St. Paul with Hymeneus and the rest of the Apostles with Nicolaus and were blamelesse But this is to perswade us that your Church was Catholick when your Bishop an Heretick Thus the Popes infallibility is shrunk into heresie it is fallen out of the chaire into the body of the Church and the head shall receive health from the members not the members from the head Whereas anciently the Saints of God judged of the Church by the Bishop not of the Bishop by the Church Yea (a) Concil Nic. Can. 5. the communion of the Church is estimated by communicating with the Bishop and (b) Cod. Eccles Univers can 169 if any whether Priest or other shall sever themselves from their Canonicall Bishop and shall call a Congregation against him or without his directions they are censured to be Hereticks The reason is because (c) Concil Nic. Diatyp 2. the Bishop is as it were the head the life of his Church and (d) Concil Nic. Can. 4. ought not to be ordained without the approbation of all the Bishops of that Province And I know Liberius was ordained with this circumspection Thus the Bishop elected is presumed to be of the same Religion with the rest of the Province and the Province with the Metropolitan Provided therefore it is that (e) Cod. Eccles Univers Can. 5.99.104 the Synod of that Province censure him if he faile of their expectation and depart from the Orthodoxe faith And (f) Ib. Can. 171 172. if they do not they are alike guilty and all that adhere to him or them 22. And for the parties instanced the King of England and Archbishop of Canterbury I beleeve that either or both of them may be Hereticks and this Church not so since it is not their being but our complying that makes us hereticall But if all our Bishops be of the same Religion with them this Church is in an ill case You or I may save our owne soules by not communicating with them by dissenting from them and by protesting against their unsound doctrine But the Church is not to be judged of by you or me but by those that sit in Moses chaire and are (g) 2. Cor. 2.16 either the savour of life unto life or the savour of death unto death For (h) St. Mat. 5.13 if the salt lose its savour wherewith shall it be salted how mended how recovered Surely (i) Ib. it is to be cast forth of the Church out of the dignity it is in and trampled upon as good for nothing This was spoken to the Apostles and with them to their successors But when the King and Priest joyne together it hath a strange influence upon the People for good or bad (k) 4. Reg. 16.10 c. When King Ahaz and Vrijah the Priest professed Idolatry with open face though many good men were resident among them yet was that City and People accounted Hereticall The power of the sword drawes some to sympathize and too many to temporize This is to be seen under the reign of (l) Ista edictorum Imperatoris vi quae in partes Occidentis miserat confecta sunt Socrat. l. 2. c. 29. Constantius Julian Valens and others where we see Religion much depend upon the Imperiall breath But if Prince and Bishop concurre in Religion they hardly meet with opposition Look upon Antioch under Constantius the Emperour and Leontius the Bishop upon Constantinople under Valens and Bishop Eudoxius and you shall see how suddenly they were overrun with heresie Now if it should fall out so unhappily with any or all the Cities of this Kingdome the Diocesan or Nationall Church so infected shall be deemed Hereticall Under K. Edward VI. and Queen Mary the Religion of this Church was judged of by the Governors and thus shall we deal with Rome 23. (n) 6. But if it were granted say you that the Popes of Rome being Schismaticks or Hereticks should annihilate that Church yet that could give me no satisfaction who required not where is not the Catholick Church but where it is that I might communicate with it And I say if the Church of Rome bee annihilated by the Popes Heresie or Apostasie she shall be no Church much lesse the Catholick What then shall become of those Churches in her communion surely they are all in an ill in the same case with her Grant but this and the controversie is at an end You have satisfaction and I ease But this will not serve your turn who now require not where is not but where is the Catholick Church Well if this will give you satisfaction I shall tell you this too The Catholick Church is where ever the Catholick faith is preserved and Apostolick government continued (m) Chrysost in 1. Cor. 12. It hath been dispersed through the whole world though not
perchance in all parts of the habitable world at the same time (n) 1. Cor. 12.12 One it is but many members As the body is one and hath many members so is Christ (o) Chrysost in loc Pro Ecclesia posuit Christum for the Church he sets down Christ since the Church is his body (p) 1. Cor. 12.13 into which we are all baptized This body hath many members these members are diffused from sea to sea over the whole earth So the Church is in Greece Italy Spain France England Polonia and * Unus spiritus inesse omnibus infusus membris una anima meritò dicitur quia una in omnibus fides unus ab omnibus colitur Deus atque ex uno ore hymnos omnes concinunt Deo Ruffin hist l. 9. c. 10. whereever the Catholick faith and Apostolicall government are continued Thus we acknowledge Rome to be a Church as St. Paul did Corinth though an erroneous and superstitious Church You see now where you may communicate with the Catholick but it is left to your discretion to choose whether you will communicate with a reformed or a superstitious Church 24. Now to the second where I say That the Church of Rome and those in her communion and the Church of England are but severall members of the one Catholick Church You reply thus (q) n. 7. That I conceive cannot be 1. For the reasons inferred from the Articles of your Church as above 2. For that the Articles of faith of both Churches are directly contradictory as appears by many your negative Articles I look not upon your conceits but upon your reasons inferred from the Articles of our Church which are already satisfied § 12 13. And whereas you adde that the Articles of faith of both Churches are directly contradictory I hope it is not so If it be I am certaine one of these is no Church For then (r) 1. Cor. 3.11 we build not both upon the same foundation (s) Colos 2.19 we hold not the head from which all the body receives nourishment and is knit compacted together by joynts and bands Quid itaque relicto capite membris adhaeres Why then do you leave the head to cleave to the members corrupt putrified members He that builds upon the rock builds upon sure grounds (t) Aug. de verb. Domini Ser. 45. c. 7. Veni ergo mecum si vis superpetram noli mihi velle esse pro petra if then you befor the rock go along with me and seek not to be the rock to me Behold we build upon the rock we beleeve in God the Father in God the Son and God the holy Ghost I hope ye doe so too We also beleeve the Unity in Trinity and Trinity in Unity And do not ye so too Hitherto we are both upon the Rock We beleeve the * We devoutly professe and in all points follow the faith which is contained in the three Creeds that is to say of the Apostles of the Councel of Nice and of Athanasius The Protest of Bishop Scory c. Book of Mart. p. 2119. three Creeds and in the same sense the Primitive Church received them which ye doe not but give some of the Articles a new another sense Here then ye are beside the Rock 25. Thus we agree and yet not agree we agree in the foundation not in the superstruction in the letter not in the exposition And we are sorry to see you forget your selves so much as to infringe so memorable so necessary a Canon as that of the Councel of Ephesus which decrees that (u) Conc. Ephes Can. 7. It is not lawfull for any one to bring to write or compose any other Creed besides that which was agreed upon by those holy Fathers assembled in the holy Ghost at Nice He that offends in this kind against this Canon is deeply censured If a Bishop he is to be deprived of his Cure if a Clergy-man of his function but if a Lay-man he is to be turned out of the Churches communion But ye have imposed a new another Creed of Pius Quartus upon the Church which whosoever will not subscribe to he is at least no good Catholick w th you 26. Say not that these are expositions they are dangerous additions and though I cannot say ye have altered the letter yet I dare be bold to say ye have strangely alter'd the sense (x) Tertul. de Praescrip c. 38. auferendo proprietates singulorum verborum adjiciendo dispositiones non comparentium rerum by taking away the proper sense of severall words and by inserting imaginations of such things as have no footing in holy Writ Whereas we as we ought take the rule of Faith in the literall sense (y) Quae nullas habet apad nos quaesliones nisi quas haereses inferunt quae Haereticos faciunt Ib. c. 14. and that raiseth no controversies with us but such as heresies bring in and such as make Hereticks Your selves your own Church ye may charge with contradictions this Church ye cannot This is the plea we stand upon (z) Ib. c. 21. Communicamus cum Ecclestis Apostolicis quod nulla vel in nullo doctrina diversa hoc est testimonium veritatis we cannot but communicate with the Primitive the Apostolick Churches whose doctrine is in nothing different from theirs This is such a testimony of the truth that it is above all exception And resolved I am with Gods blessing to be no longer of this communion then I shall be able to make this good 27. And whereas (a) n. 7. Mr. Hooker sayes That the Children of the visible Church are signed with this mark One Lord ONE FAITH one Baptisme I presume you make no doubt of this Neither can I think but that you are resolved whoever denies the Lord of life or renounceth the Catholick faith or is baptized into any other Baptism then that one which our Saviour instituted or is a second time baptized he is no childe of the visible Church since that hath taught us to beleeve one Baptism for the remission of sins He then that forsakes this faith forsakes the Church 28. Thirdly you adde that (b) Ib. I my selfe charge the Church of Rome with errors in matters of faith no lesse then in foure points viz. Transubstantiation Communion in one kinde Invocation of Saints and Adoration of images As if I were the first or the onely man that charged you with these errors whereas (c) Art 22 28 30. this is done by our whole Church and the Inditement is made good by that learned Archbishop of B. memory The Church saith that these doctrines are (d) Art 22. fond things grounded upon no warranty of Scripture but rather repugnant to the Word of God The Archbishop hath charged it home and you know not how to shift it off It would well therefore become a Christian Church to redress these and your other
lead we know it by his Will give us that which ye received and not gilded stuffe in stead of gold If ye tender to us that which is unwarrantable we are resolved (b) Gal. 1.8 9. with the vessel of Election to denounce to you or any other an Anathema we shall not we must not endure novum dogma any new Article If new it can never be right (c) 2 Tim. 3.15 The Scripture is able to make us wise unto salvation that we set before us and are resolved by Gods grace to accept of nothing but what is deduced from thence or proved thereby according to the interpretation of the ancient Fathers and Councels While our Church does thus in spight of malice she shall be Catholick (d) Dediscam benè quod didicerunt non benè Vincent Lirin c. 25. If we chance to learn any thing contrary to this we are bound in Christianity to cast it by though it come from Rome and to (e) Ib. betake our selves into the bosome of our Catholick Mother as into the safest harbor There we are sure to find the living waters and tree of life 45. Your desire is behind but differing from the former Before your desire was to be shewn the Catholick Church distinct from the Church of Rome and those in her communion for the last 1100 years To this satisfaction is given § 29 32 c. But now (f) n. 9. your desire is to be showed the Catholick Church or the Church of England distinct from the Church of Rome and those in her communion for the last 1100 years or for so â—â—ng as I please to say the Church of Rome hath so grievously erred that we dare not communicate with her This desire of yours according to your own words is not nor by my Papers can he satisfied Is it not enough to manifest that your present errors are so grosse and grievous that we dare not communicate with the Church of Rome but we must look back to former centuries In my former Papers I have done it but you will not see it Other eyes I presume will discern this done § 32 33 34. in my former answer Of these you take little notice because you are resolved with the self-conceited Pharisee to be what you are And with (g) §. 11. that Lady I spake of you ask not this or any other question as if you meant to be satisfied with what is or can be said Surely we did not communicate with Rome in the time of Zepherinus Marcellinus Liberius Vigilius Honorius and those (h) Genebrard Chron. l. 4. Ann. 991. 50 Apostaticall Popes whom Genebrard speaks of And great reason for it since in those dayes ye separated your selves from the Church Catholick to side with Hereticks and worse if worse may be Then was this Church distinct from yours because yours was divided from that Church (i) 1. Tim. 3.15 which is the pillar and ground of truth If ye depart from the truth we shall and must depart from you (k) Hos 4.15 Though Israel transgresse yet must not Judah sin We must not be naught for company (l) Exod. 23.2 neither may we follow a multitude to doe evill Your Letters are answered and your desires I hope satisfied beyond your desire Your conclusion I like so well it shall be mine With you therefore I beseech Almighty God to look favourably into the souls deceived by devillish deceits that all hereticall impieties removed the hearts of them that erre may relent and return to the unity of his truth and become one fold under one shepheard Jesus Christ our Lord to whom with the Father and the holy Ghost be all honor and glory world without end Amen Placet vobis quaestio proposita Deus adjuvet ut placeat soluta Ecce quod dico ut liberet me vos 1. In una enim fide stamus in nomine Christi 2. in una domo 3. sub uno Domino vivimus 4. in uno corpore membra 5. sub uno capite sumus 6. uno spiritu vegetamur Aug. de Verb. Domini Ser. 63. c. 3. FINIS