Selected quad for the lemma: word_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
word_n	catholic_a	church_n	visible_a	3,379	5	9.5057	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19220	The Catholike moderator: or A moderate examination of the doctrine of the Protestants Prouing against the too rigid Catholikes of these times, and against the arguments especially, of that booke called, The answer to the Catholike apologie, that we, who are members of the Catholike, apostolike, & Roman Church, ought not to condeme the Protestants for heretikes, vntill further proofe be made. First written in French by a Catholike gentleman, and now faithfully translated. See the occasion of the name of Huguenots, after the translaters epistle.; Examen pacifique de la doctrine des Huguenots. English	Constable, Henry, 1562-1613.; W. W., fl. 1623.	1623 (1623)	STC 5636.2; ESTC S109401	62,312	88

and_o nation_n with_o which_o definition_n the_o father_n joint_o consent_v 12._o all_o they_o say_v saint_n augustine_n which_o be_v holy_a and_o sanctify_a which_o be_v have_v be_v and_o shall_v be_v be_v citizen_n of_o the_o heavenly_a jerusalem_n 9_o and_o s._n gregory_n the_o pope_n that_o my_o proof_n may_v be_v the_o more_o authentical_a say_v that_o all_o the_o elect_n be_v embrace_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o church_n and_o all_o the_o reprobate_n be_v without_o and_o yet_o be_v poor_a john_n husse_v burn_v for_o a_o heretic_n for_o affirm_v the_o very_a same_o o_o wicked_a catholic_n that_o have_v make_v a_o man_n to_o be_v burn_v for_o a_o heretic_n for_o affirm_v no_o more_o than_o what_o a_o saint_n have_v do_v and_o which_o be_v more_o then_o a_o pope_n have_v say_v before_o he_o so_o then_o in_o this_o signification_n neither_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n nor_o that_o which_o themselves_o call_v the_o reform_a church_n can_v proper_o be_v call_v the_o catholic_a 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place_n privilege_v so_o then_o no_o place_n be_v exclude_v there_o may_v be_v other_o church_n beside_o that_o of_o rome_n and_o no_o place_n be_v privilege_v even_o rome_n itself_o may_v be_v cut_v off_o from_o the_o church_n 3_o three_o the_o church_n be_v call_v catholic_a in_o respect_n of_o the_o donatist_n heretic_n who_o deny_v the_o church_n to_o be_v disperse_v all_o over_o the_o world_n but_o hold_v it_o to_o be_v coop_v up_o in_o africa_n whereupon_o it_o come_v to_o pass_v that_o those_o church_n which_o hold_v the_o contrary_a be_v call_v the_o catholic_a church_n even_o as_o at_o this_o day_n these_o church_n that_o hold_v the_o church_n to_o have_v need_n of_o reformation_n be_v call_v the_o reform_a church_n which_o be_v the_o reason_n why_o the_o more_o ancient_a father_n never_o use_v this_o term_n catholic_a to_o distinguish_v the_o pure_a church_n from_o the_o heretical_a but_o call_v they_o orthodoxal_a but_o in_o process_n of_o time_n by_o reason_n that_o the_o 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less_o catholic_a proportionable_o as_o it_o be_v more_o or_o less_o pure_a so_o that_o the_o question_n between_o the_o catholic_n and_o the_o huguenot_n lie_v not_o in_o this_o point_n viz._n which_o of_o the_o church_n be_v the_o church_n catholic_a but_o whether_o of_o they_o be_v most_o catholic_a and_o which_o most_o corrupt_a for_o in_o some_o degree_n both_o of_o they_o may_v be_v catholic_a so_o long_o as_o they_o hold_v the_o substance_n of_o faith_n as_o i_o show_v in_o the_o first_o chapter_n and_o both_o of_o they_o in_o some_o sort_n may_v be_v corrupt_a it_o be_v a_o thing_n most_o certain_a that_o every_o visible_a church_n may_v have_v error_n more_o or_o less_o 38_o the_o church_n say_v saint_n bernard_n as_o long_o as_o she_o be_v in_o the_o tabernacle_n of_o this_o body_n have_v not_o attain_v unto_o the_o perfection_n of_o beauty_n and_o be_v not_o therefore_o absolute_o fair_a for_o it_o be_v the_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n triumphant_a only_o to_o be_v fair_a and_o as_o s._n paul_n say_v without_o spot_n or_o wrinkle_n 5._o true_a it_o be_v indeed_o that_o the_o church_n be_v sometime_o call_v fair_a but_o this_o be_v ever_o comparative_o 1._o wherefore_o the_o bridegroom_n in_o the_o canticle_n say_v of_o his_o spouse_n which_o be_v the_o church_n that_o she_o be_v the_o fair_a of_o woman_n that_o be_v not_o simple_o fair_a say_v s._n bernard_n but_o the_o fair_a among_o woman_n and_o for_o that_o self_n same_o reason_n be_v she_o in_o one_o and_o the_o same_o verse_n style_v both_o black_a and_o fair_a i_o be_o black_a say_v the_o spouse_n but_o i_o be_o comely_a i_o be_o not_o ignorant_a how_o that_o the_o ancient_n also_o do_v use_v this_o word_n catholic_a for_o a_o distinction_n from_o a_o heretic_n in_o another_o signification_n which_o in_o truth_n be_v according_a to_o the_o proper_a interpretation_n of_o the_o word_n take_v catholic_a or_o universal_a for_o a_o mark_n of_o the_o true_a church_n for_o which_o reason_n in_o the_o ancient_a church_n when_o as_o the_o whole_a visible_a church_n

yet_o retain_v the_o faith_n receive_v from_o the_o apostle_n and_o that_o some_o part_n of_o it_o become_v corrupt_v for_o the_o exact_a discern_v unto_o whether_o side_n we_o ought_v to_o lean_v vincentius_n lyrinensis_n haereses_fw-la give_v this_o rule_n what_o else_o shall_v we_o do_v say_v he_o but_o prefer_v the_o safety_n of_o the_o body_n before_o a_o rot_a member_n and_o therefore_o for_o that_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n be_v at_o that_o time_n sound_n all_o the_o church_n be_v call_v catholic_a for_o so_o much_o this_o word_n body_n as_o well_o as_o that_o word_n catholic_a imply_v a_o universality_n so_o that_o the_o distinction_n of_o catholic_a and_o heretic_n serve_v but_o to_o distinguish_v the_o sound_a body_n from_o a_o corrupt_a member_n but_o so_o soon_o as_o the_o body_n itself_o become_v corrupt_v than_o this_o rule_n and_o distinction_n fail_v for_o which_o reason_n vincentius_n make_v a_o difference_n between_o a_o catholic_a in_o place_n and_o a_o catholic_a in_o time_n and_o ever_o when_o a_o catholic_a in_o place_n be_v not_o a_o sure_a mark_n he_o have_v recourse_n unto_o a_o catholic_a in_o time_n but_o say_v he_o if_o any_o new_a infection_n go_v on_o haeres_fw-la not_o only_o to_o corrupt_v a_o part_n but_o the_o whole_a church_n then_o must_v we_o cleave_v to_o antiquity_n so_o that_o the_o difference_n between_o the_o catholic_n and_o the_o huguenot_n lie_v in_o this_o point_n whether_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n be_v corrupt_v or_o no_o we_o must_v not_o speak_v of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v catholic_a according_a to_o place_n but_o according_a to_o time_n and_o that_o church_n be_v catholic_a say_v vincentius_n which_o hold_v that_o religion_n which_o have_v be_v ever_o hitherto_o embrace_v and_o to_o discern_v which_o religion_n have_v be_v always_o embrace_v when_o as_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n or_o the_o visible_a church_n as_o say_v the_o same_o vincentius_n be_v corrupt_v we_o must_v still_o have_v recourse_n unto_o antiquity_n and_o say_v with_o tertullian_n illudverum_fw-la quod_fw-la primum_fw-la haeres_fw-la that_o be_v true_a which_o be_v ancient_a so_o as_o that_o be_v the_o catholic_a church_n which_o agree_v in_o faith_n with_o the_o more_o primitive_a church_n so_o that_o if_o we_o will_v discuss_v it_o whether_o the_o catholic_n or_o the_o huguenot_n be_v most_o proper_o the_o right_a catholic_n we_o must_v consider_v first_o whether_o of_o they_o best_o hold_v of_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o next_o of_o that_o of_o the_o ancient_a doctor_n and_o counsel_n of_o the_o church_n as_o for_o the_o title_n apostolic_a the_o church_n may_v be_v call_v apostolic_a as_o well_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o write_n as_o of_o the_o preach_a of_o the_o apostle_n as_o for_o their_o write_n those_o church_n which_o embrace_v the_o doctrine_n deliver_v in_o they_o be_v entitle_v apostolic_a yea_o and_o more_o or_o less_o apostolic_a as_o they_o do_v more_o or_o less_o agree_v or_o disagree_v to_o or_o from_o the_o say_a doctrine_n so_o that_o the_o word_n apostolic_a be_v all_o one_o with_o the_o word_n orthodox_n or_o with_o catholic_a take_v in_o the_o last_o signification_n and_o if_o the_o church_n of_o the_o huguenot_n may_v be_v entitle_v catholic_a or_o orthodox_n they_o may_v also_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n be_v call_v apostolic_a nay_o and_o more_o proper_o apostolic_a then_o catholic_a for_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v as_o i_o have_v show_v not_o absolute_o but_o comparative_o more_o or_o less_o catholic_a or_o apostolic_a the_o huguenot_n though_o they_o may_v offend_v in_o default_n and_o so_o be_v less_o catholic_a rather_o yet_o in_o this_o they_o offend_v rather_o in_o the_o excess_n and_o be_v too_o apostolic_a as_o be_v so_o strict_a that_o they_o will_v ready_o believe_v nothing_o but_o what_o the_o apostle_n have_v write_v second_o those_o church_n be_v call_v apostolic_a which_o be_v instruct_v by_o the_o lively_a voice_n 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a_o church_n may_v be_v pure_a and_o yet_o not_o be_v apostolic_a and_o a_o church_n which_o be_v apostolic_a may_v be_v impure_a the_o last_o title_n though_o first_o in_o estimation_n with_o the_o catholic_n church_n be_v that_o of_o roman_a which_o i_o have_v observe_v to_o have_v be_v take_v in_o three_o several_a sort_n first_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v only_o take_v for_o the_o diocese_n of_o rome_n and_o be_v in_o the_o beginning_n for_o the_o city_n of_o rome_n alone_o as_o in_o s._n paul_n time_n who_o inscribe_v a_o epistle_n several_o to_o rome_n alone_o as_o he_o do_v likewise_o to_o those_o church_n of_o corinth_n ephesus_n galatia_n etc._n etc._n for_o have_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v every_o where_o at_o that_o time_n spread_v abroad_o he_o have_v not_o need_v to_o have_v write_v to_o other_o church_n several_o because_o that_o in_o write_v to_o that_o of_o rome_n he_o have_v then_o write_v to_o they_o all_o and_o yet_o will_v our_o people_n need_v make_v use_n of_o this_o epistle_n to_o prove_v by_o it_o the_o roman_a church_n to_o be_v the_o catholic_a church_n because_o that_o in_o it_o 8._o s._n paul_n say_v your_o faith_n be_v spread_v abroad_o in_o all_o the_o world_n as_o if_o s._n paul_n have_v not_o say_v the_o same_o to_o the_o church_n of_o thessalonica_n 8._o your_o faith_n which_o you_o have_v to_o god-ward_o be_v spread_v abroad_o but_o have_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v as_o they_o will_v have_v it_o esteem_v by_o s._n paul_n as_o all_o one_o with_o the_o catholic_a without_o all_o doubt_n his_o epistle_n to_o the_o roman_n have_v be_v entitle_v catholic_n as_o well_o as_o those_o of_o s._n john_n s._n peter_n s._n james_n and_o s._n jude_n which_o be_v therefore_o style_v catholic_n for_o that_o they_o be_v write_v to_o the_o catholic_a church_n now_o take_v the_o roman_a church_n in_o this_o signification_n i_o confess_v that_o not_o the_o huguenot_n church_n alone_o be_v separate_v from_o the_o roman_a church_n but_o all_o other_o catholic_a church_n beside_o so_o that_o to_o this_o day_n they_o in_o france_n make_v a_o distinction_n of_o sundry_a custom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o of_o the_o church_n gallicane_n second_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v take_v for_o the_o western_a church_n insomuch_o that_o the_o roman_a latin_a and_o occidental_a church_n do_v signify_v one_o and_o the_o same_o thing_n to_o distinguish_v it_o from_o the_o greek_a and_o eastern_a church_n just_a as_o the_o empire_n of_o the_o east_n and_o the_o empire_n of_o the_o west_n be_v call_v the_o empire_n of_o rome_n and_o of_o constantinople_n because_o that_o these_o two_o city_n be_v the_o chief_a seat_n of_o the_o empire_n and_o so_o by_o reason_n of_o the_o dignity_n of_o the_o city_n of_o rome_n which_o be_v the_o seat_n of_o the_o emperor_n that_o reign_v in_o the_o west_n all_o this_o western_a part_n be_v call_v the_o roman_a empire_n and_o all_o the_o western_a church_n the_o roman_a church_n that_o be_v to_o say_v the_o church_n contain_v under_o the_o roman_a empire_n so_o then_o if_o we_o call_v it_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o distinguish_v it_o from_o the_o greek_a and_o eastern_a church_n then_o also_o may_v the_o huguenot_n church_n be_v member_n likewise_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o that_o they_o be_v western_a and_o not_o greek_a nor_o eastern_a church_n if_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o roman_a empire_n take_v the_o roman_a empire_n large_o as_o it_o be_v they_o also_o be_v under_o the_o empire_n and_o by_o consequence_n under_o the_o church_n but_o

catholic_n and_o huguenot_n thus_o far_o forth_o agree_v in_o doctrine_n that_o they_o be_v both_o of_o the_o same_o faith_n and_o religion_n it_o be_v most_o clear_a that_o man_n of_o the_o same_o church_n and_o religion_n may_v differ_v nevertheless_o about_o some_o opinion_n in_o divinity_n austen_n accord_v not_o to_o hierome_n nor_o epiphanius_n to_o chrysostome_n nor_o cyprian_a to_o cornelius_n nor_o irenaeus_n to_o victor_n and_o questionless_a one_o of_o they_o be_v in_o the_o error_n yet_o be_v they_o all_o doctor_n approve_v by_o the_o church_n and_o saint_n every_o one_o of_o they_o every_o error_n do_v not_o separate_v a_o man_n from_o the_o church_n nor_o shall_v we_o regard_v so_o much_o the_o number_n as_o the_o quality_n of_o they_o arrius_n accord_v with_o the_o catholic_n in_o all_o point_v but_o one_o insomuch_o as_o the_o change_n of_o a_o word_n yea_o of_o one_o bare_a letter_n will_v have_v compound_v the_o controversy_n 〈◊〉_d and_o yet_o be_v he_o the_o great_a heretic_n that_o ever_o the_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o origen_n on_o the_o other_o side_n dissent_v in_o infinite_a tenant_n from_o the_o other_o old_a doctor_n and_o be_v yet_o nevertheless_o esteem_v a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n to_o see_v then_o whether_o the_o huguenot_n be_v of_o another_o religion_n than_o we_o neither_o their_o error_n nor_o their_o number_n be_v the_o thing_n which_o be_v so_o much_o to_o be_v regard_v but_o the_o nature_n of_o they_o only_o be_v it_o that_o be_v to_o say_v what_o error_n be_v to_o be_v repute_v for_o heresy_n and_o whether_o they_o be_v of_o that_o nature_n there_o be_v two_o thing_n which_o according_a to_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o catholic_n make_v error_n to_o prove_v heresy_n the_o one_o when_o the_o error_n be_v of_o itself_o so_o enormous_a that_o he_o be_v at_o all_o time_n a_o heretic_n that_o hold_v it_o so_o that_o even_o before_o the_o nicene_n council_n have_v decide_v it_o ebion_n paulus_n samosetanus_n and_o arrius_n stand_v then_o as_o heretic_n for_o that_o they_o deny_v the_o eternal_a divinity_n of_o the_o son_n of_o god_n the_o second_o thing_n which_o according_a to_o our_o opinion_n make_v a_o error_n to_o become_v a_o heresy_n be_v when_o any_o man_n maintain_v a_o opinion_n in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n contrary_a to_o the_o decree_n of_o a_o general_n council_n so_o then_o the_o heresy_n lie_v not_o so_o much_o in_o the_o mischievousnesse_n of_o the_o opinion_n as_o in_o the_o resistance_n make_v against_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o church_n for_o example_n the_o opinion_n of_o s._n cyprian_a touch_v rebaptization_n be_v not_o heresy_n in_o he_o because_o there_o be_v not_o as_o then_o any_o decree_n of_o council_n make_v against_o it_o but_o since_o that_o say_v we_o this_o opinion_n be_v condemn_v legal_o it_o be_v flat_a heresy_n in_o any_o other_o that_o shall_v hold_v it_o of_o this_o second_o species_n of_o heresy_n i_o will_v entreat_v in_o my_o three_o chapter_n in_o this_o only_o of_o the_o former_a which_o be_v whether_o the_o error_n of_o the_o huguenot_n be_v in_o themselves_o so_o enormous_a that_o they_o destroy_v the_o very_a foundation_n of_o faith_n and_o by_o consequence_n keep_v they_o off_o from_o be_v of_o the_o same_o religion_n with_o us._n let_v we_o see_v then_o 20._o how_o our_o antagonist_n take_v upon_o he_o to_o prove_v the_o contrary_n in_o the_o first_o place_n say_v he_o both_o party_n as_o well_o the_o catholic_n as_o their_o adversary_n repute_v one_o another_o for_o heretic_n i_o answer_v that_o i_o find_v no_o impossibility_n why_o they_o may_v not_o be_v both_o deceive_v for_o two_o brother_n be_v in_o choler_n may_v well_o renounce_v one_o another_o and_o yet_o they_o leave_v not_o for_o all_o that_o to_o continue_v true_a brother_n always_o cyrill_n and_o theodoret_n accuse_v one_o another_o for_o heretic_n and_o yet_o neither_o of_o they_o be_v so_o so_o that_o this_o reason_n be_v only_o draw_v from_o the_o passion_n of_o man_n when_o reason_n have_v abandon_v they_o but_o how_o do_v he_o prove_v 21._o that_o the_o catholic_n repute_v the_o huguenot_n for_o heretic_n the_o catholic_a church_n say_v he_o have_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n condemn_v diverse_a of_o the_o lutheran_n opinion_n i_o answer_v according_a to_o my_o first_o distinction_n that_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o return_v a_o opinion_n for_o a_o heresy_n by_o condemnation_n and_o another_o thing_n to_o repute_v it_o so_o of_o its_o own_o nature_n now_o whither_o or_o no_o the_o huguenot_n be_v heretic_n by_o condemnation_n we_o will_v argue_v it_o hereafter_o in_o our_o three_o four_o and_o five_o chapter_n but_o here_o we_o dispute_v only_o of_o the_o nature_n of_o their_o error_n wherein_o his_o proof_n be_v nothing_o to_o his_o purpose_n but_o say_v he_o at_o rome_n every_o holy_a thursday_n the_o pope_n pronounce_v they_o excommunicate_a 21._o and_o prohibit_v all_o chatholikes_n to_o read_v their_o book_n in_o like_a manner_n the_o same_o day_n also_o he_o excommunicat_o all_o sinner_n of_o who_o he_o dare_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o many_o be_v of_o the_o church_n else_o shall_v he_o himself_o be_v condemn_v for_o a_o heretic_n by_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n which_o give_v sentence_n against_o john_n huz_n that_o the_o church_n consist_v as_o well_o of_o the_o bad_a as_o of_o the_o good_a and_o whereas_o the_o huguenot_n book_n be_v prohibit_v so_o be_v also_o the_o book_n of_o machiavelli_n aretine_n and_o diverse_a other_o catholic_n let_v we_o next_o see_v the_o opinion_n which_o the_o huguenot_n have_v of_o the_o catholic_a doctrine_n 21._o caluine_v say_v he_o write_v that_o the_o principal_a point_n of_o doctrine_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v almost_o utter_o abolish_v and_o the_o right_a use_n of_o the_o sacrament_n in_o many_o fashion_n corrupt_v he_o need_v but_o little_a explication_n the_o word_n themselves_o answer_v he_o calvin_n say_v not_o that_o the_o sacrament_n be_v utter_o take_v away_o but_o the_o right_a use_n of_o they_o many_o way_n corrupt_v nor_o that_o the_o principal_a point_n of_o religion_n be_v utter_o destroy_v but_o almost_o abolish_v a_o man_n may_v be_v almost_o kill_v and_o yet_o live_v second_o to_o prove_v how_o their_o religion_n differ_v from_o we_o reason_n he_o produce_v the_o controversy_n of_o original_a sin_n freewill_n justification_n merit_n and_o diverse_a other_o which_o he_o judge_n of_o most_o consequence_n it_o be_v the_o great_a pity_n in_o the_o world_n to_o hear_v how_o the_o most_o of_o the_o preacher_n in_o both_o religion_n common_o fight_v with_o their_o own_o shadow_n not_o understand_v what_o it_o be_v that_o their_o adversary_n hold_v which_o come_v only_o of_o the_o subtlety_n of_o word_n invent_v by_o the_o devil_n to_o disturb_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n one_o party_n understand_v the_o word_n justification_n in_o one_o sense_n and_o another_o in_o another_o one_o faith_n one_o way_n and_o another_o in_o another_o one_o grace_n in_o one_o fashion_n another_o after_o another_o and_o so_o of_o the_o rest_n that_o which_o we_o say_v be_v true_a in_o our_o acception_n of_o the_o word_n and_o that_o which_o they_o say_v be_v likewise_o true_a as_o they_o take_v it_o so_o that_o if_o the_o desire_n of_o contention_n be_v once_o take_v away_o we_o shall_v soon_o find_v that_o the_o most_o of_o these_o dispute_n wherewith_o people_n ear_n be_v fill_v be_v only_o the_o subtlety_n of_o the_o school_n upon_o the_o etimology_n and_o definition_n of_o word_n only_o whence_o it_o come_v to_o pass_v that_o in_o the_o conference_n at_o regenspurg_n the_o catholic_n and_o the_o protestant_n fall_v to_o some_o agreement_n in_o the_o question_n of_o original_a sin_n of_o predestination_n freewill_n and_o diverse_a other_o point_n pacis_fw-la which_o be_v also_o confess_v by_o bishop_n lindanus_n one_o of_o the_o tarte_v enemy_n that_o the_o huguenot_n ever_o have_v nevertheless_o the_o author_n of_o this_o answer_n be_v so_o ill_o advise_v as_o to_o choose_v out_o these_o question_n principal_o to_o show_v the_o difference_n between_o they_o and_o us._n for_o i_o own_o part_n i_o will_v not_o take_v upon_o i_o to_o reconcile_v the_o say_a question_n neither_o know_v i_o well_o to_o confess_v my_o own_o ignorance_n free_o whether_o it_o be_v possible_a to_o be_v do_v or_o no_o only_o thus_o much_o i_o assure_v myself_o that_o the_o difference_n be_v not_o so_o great_a as_o it_o be_v judge_v to_o be_v nor_o will_v i_o too_o exact_o search_v out_o the_o point_n in_o controversy_n because_o i_o well_o hope_v some_o other_o man_n may_v more_o happy_o perform_v it_o hereafter_o only_o i_o will_v discourse_v upon_o the_o say_a question_n as_o they_o be_v common_o understand_v by_o the_o best_a doctor_n in_o each_o religion_n in_o which_o sense_n i_o

not_o himself_o great_o to_o know_v whether_o they_o do_v or_o no._n but_o shall_v any_o of_o they_o deny_v it_o where_o be_v the_o danger_n bellarmine_n that_o great_a master_n of_o controversy_n affirm_v 15._o that_o the_o soul_n in_o heaven_n do_v pray_v for_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n and_o they_o in_o purgatory_n for_o those_o on_o earth_n and_o yet_o notwithstanding_o confess_v that_o dominicus_n à_fw-fr soto_n deny_v the_o first_o and_o s._n thomas_n aquinas_n the_o second_o wherefore_o see_v that_o purgatory_n be_v more_o beneficial_a to_o the_o pope_n than_o paradise_n i_o can_v perceive_v no_o reason_n wherefore_o the_o huguento_n shall_v rather_o be_v heretic_n for_o disagree_v with_o the_o catholic_n about_o the_o intercession_n of_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n than_o the_o catholic_n be_v for_o differ_v among_o themselves_o about_o the_o intercession_n both_o of_o the_o soul_n and_o for_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n the_o last_o point_n wherein_o the_o huguenot_n be_v depart_v from_o the_o roman_a faith_n be_v touch_v the_o sacrament_n wherein_o the_o number_n 25._o nature_n and_o particular_a sacrament_n be_v to_o be_v consider_v of_o and_o they_o first_o miscount_n themselves_o in_o the_o number_n reckon_v but_o two_o whereas_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n have_v conclude_v it_o that_o there_o be_v seven_o which_o objection_n of_o he_o be_v but_o frivolous_a insomuch_o as_o the_o difference_n lie_v more_o in_o the_o word_n than_o in_o the_o thing_n for_o take_v the_o word_n sacrament_n proper_o s._n austin_n say_v that_o there_o be_v but_o two_o that_o be_v to_o say_v baptism_n &_o the_o eucharist_n further_o it_o be_v a_o ordinary_a phrase_n among_o we_o catholic_n to_o say_v that_o all_o the_o sacrament_n issue_v out_o of_o our_o saviour_n side_n whereas_o there_o issue_v nothing_o from_o thence_o save_o water_n and_o blood_n which_o according_a as_o chrysostome_n cyril_n and_o other_o ancient_n interpret_v it_o represent_v the_o two_o sacrament_n that_o be_v baptism_n by_o the_o water_n and_o the_o cup_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n by_o the_o blood_n to_o which_o our_o catholic_a doctor_n give_v no_o other_o answer_n than_o this_o that_o the_o two_o sacrament_n have_v some_o kind_n of_o dignity_n above_o the_o rest_n which_o come_v to_o no_o more_o than_o to_o say_v that_o there_o be_v two_o principal_a sacrament_n and_o five_o more_o inferior_a to_o those_o two_o which_o be_v all_o one_o with_o the_o huguenot_n opinion_n though_o in_o diverse_a term_n they_o say_v that_o there_o be_v but_o two_o proper_o we_o say_v that_o there_o be_v but_o two_o principal_o we_o again_o that_o there_o be_v five_o more_o of_o a_o inferior_a order_n they_o confess_v that_o there_o may_v be_v more_o if_o we_o mean_v of_o sacrament_n in_o the_o general_a signification_n for_o calvin_n yield_v that_o order_n be_v a_o sacrament_n but_o not_o common_a to_o all_o man_n nor_o will_v our_o catholic_a doctor_n say_v otherwise_o again_o they_o will_v confess_v with_o s._n paul_n that_o marriage_n be_v also_o a_o sacrament_n take_v it_o in_o that_o general_a signification_n wherein_o the_o ancient_n have_v translate_v the_o greek_a word_n brief_o they_o will_v yield_v that_o there_o be_v seven_o but_o not_o bare_o seven_o and_o in_o truth_n there_o be_v none_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n that_o ever_o light_a upon_o this_o number_n of_o seven_o so_o that_o though_o the_o huguenot_n can_v so_o even_o jump_v upon_o the_o number_n see_v the_o primitive_a church_n can_v not_o do_v it_o we_o may_v perchance_o condemn_v they_o of_o ignorance_n in_o arithmetic_n but_o their_o error_n in_o theologie_n can_v be_v so_o great_a but_o he_o may_v argue_v that_o they_o be_v mistake_v in_o the_o very_a nature_n of_o the_o sacrament_n 26._o because_o they_o deny_v they_o to_o be_v distinguish_v in_o force_n and_o virtue_n from_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o old_a law_n or_o that_o they_o confer_v grace_n i_o answer_v that_o this_o be_v a_o mere_a slander_n for_o the_o huguenot_n do_v distinguish_v they_o from_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o do_v affirm_v that_o they_o do_v also_o confer_v grace_n what_o will_v you_o desire_v more_o of_o they_o but_o not_o say_v he_o ex_fw-la opere_fw-la operato_fw-la the_o difference_n than_o be_v not_o in_o the_o matter_n whether_o our_o sacrament_n confer_v more_o grace_n or_o be_v of_o more_o efficacy_n than_o those_o of_o the_o old_a law_n but_o in_o the_o manner_n only_o by_o what_o mean_v this_o grace_n be_v confer_v as_o for_o the_o manner_n we_o shall_v not_o i_o think_v too_o narrow_o pry_v into_o it_o as_o bellarmine_n very_o sage_o advise_v us._n 1._o like_o as_o in_o christ_n miracle_n say_v he_o the_o party_n that_o be_v heal_v need_v not_o to_o inquire_v in_o what_o manner_n the_o garment_n of_o christ_n do_v cure_v they_o it_o be_v sufficient_a to_o they_o to_o believe_v only_o that_o the_o touch_n of_o it_o wrought_v the_o cure_n just_o so_o be_v it_o not_o necessary_a say_v he_o that_o the_o minister_n or_o the_o receiver_n of_o the_o sacrament_n shall_v be_v curious_a to_o know_v in_o what_o manner_n they_o become_v the_o cause_n of_o our_o justification_n we_o come_v next_o to_o the_o particular_a sacrament_n whereof_o he_o make_v mention_v but_o of_o three_o only_a that_o be_v to_o say_v baptism_n 23._o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o altar_n and_o penance_n touch_v baptism_n they_o affirm_v say_v he_o that_o original_a sin_n stick_v so_o close_o to_o man_n that_o neither_o by_o baptism_n nor_o any_o other_o remedy_n can_v it_o be_v get_v off_o i_o answer_v that_o even_o the_o huguenot_n confess_v as_o free_o as_o the_o catholic_n that_o a_o man_n be_v wash_v from_o original_a sin_n by_o baptism_n which_o be_v enough_o for_o a_o christian_n to_o believe_v in_o this_o point_n so_o that_o the_o difference_n lie_v mere_o in_o the_o nicety_n of_o the_o word_n whether_o it_o shall_v rightly_o be_v call_v sin_n or_o no_o sin_n the_o catholic_n hold_v that_o the_o sin_n be_v so_o far_o remit_v that_o the_o concupiscence_n which_o remain_v ought_v not_o to_o be_v call_v sin_n the_o huguenot_n affirm_v that_o the_o remain_a concupiscence_n may_v very_o well_o be_v call_v sin_n although_o they_o herein_o consent_v to_o the_o catholic_n that_o a_o man_n be_v so_o clear_o absolve_v and_o discharge_v of_o it_o that_o it_o be_v not_o repute_v as_o a_o sinne._n for_o which_o cause_n in_o no_o other_o sense_n do_v they_o deny_v the_o grace_n receive_v in_o baptism_n though_o they_o still_o esteem_v themselves_o sinner_n altogether_o than_o the_o debtor_n do_v his_o creditor_n mercy_n who_o confess_v that_o he_o have_v receive_v the_o favour_n of_o he_o to_o have_v his_o debt_n forgive_v do_v nevertheless_o acknowledge_v himself_o his_o debtor_n which_o way_n soever_o it_o be_v take_v the_o sinner_n be_v pardon_v and_o the_o debtor_n discharge_v and_o what_o need_n have_v we_o to_o desire_v more_o he_o may_v say_v perchance_o again_o baptism_n that_o the_o huguenot_n err_v not_o so_o much_o in_o acknowledge_v the_o benefit_n receive_v in_o baptism_n because_o they_o be_v not_o so_o well_o aware_a of_o the_o danger_n that_o follow_v the_o want_n of_o it_o for_o they_o affirm_v say_v he_o that_o the_o child_n of_o christian_n may_v be_v esteem_v righteous_a and_o have_v admittance_n into_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n without_o baptism_n notwithstanding_o that_o jesus_n christ_n have_v say_v that_o whosoever_o be_v not_o bear_v again_o of_o water_n and_o of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n he_o can_v enter_v into_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n i_o answer_v that_o the_o huguenot_n affirm_v not_o that_o every_o child_n bear_v of_o christian_a parent_n die_v without_o baptism_n be_v save_v but_o those_o only_o who_o god_n in_o his_o eternal_a counsel_n have_v elect_v so_o that_o the_o question_n be_v not_o so_o much_o about_o baptism_n as_o about_o god_n election_n wherein_o there_o can_v be_v no_o danger_n to_o confess_v our_o ignorance_n refer_v still_o god_n own_o decree_n to_o his_o own_o good_a pleasure_n as_o the_o huguenot_n do_v for_o they_o instance_n not_o in_o what_o child_n be_v elect_v but_o forbear_v to_o press_v into_o god_n cabinet_n and_o out_o of_o that_o to_o pronounce_v that_o such_o and_o such_o child_n shall_v be_v save_v and_o if_o he_o reply_v again_o that_o the_o election_n of_o god_n be_v never_o destitute_a of_o these_o secondary_a mean_n and_o that_o baptism_n be_v the_o mean_n by_o which_o he_o save_v those_o that_o be_v elect_v and_o that_o it_o be_v a_o most_o manifest_a sign_n that_o those_o who_o be_v deprive_v of_o this_o baptism_n be_v also_o deprive_v of_o that_o election_n i_o answer_v that_o there_o be_v catholic_n who_o teach_v that_o a_o man_n may_v be_v save_v without_o these_o secondary_a mean_n s._n damascene_fw-la s._n brigid_n and_o