your yeares great exercyse do excell therin but fayth coÌ„systeth not only in learning but in simplicytie of beleuing that which Godes word teacheth therfore I wil be glad to heare bothe of your lordship or of any other that god hath reuealed vnto by his worde the true doctrine therof thanke you that it dothe please you to take paynes herein Chiche You take the first alleged amisse as though al meÌ„ should be taught by inspiration not by learnyng Howe do we beleue the Gospel but by the authoritie of the church and because the same hath allowed it Phil. S. Paule sayeth he learned not the Gospel by men neyther of men but by the reuelatioÌ„ of Iesus Christ which is a sufficieÌ„t profe that the gospel taketh not his authoritie of maÌ„ but of God only Chichest S. Paule speaketh but of his owne knowlage how he came therto Phil. Naye he speaketh of the Gospel generally which coÌ„meth not from maÌ„ but from God that the churche must only teache that which coÌ„meth froÌ„ God and not mans preceptes Chiches Doth not S. Austine saye I would not beleue the Gospel yf the authoritie of the churche dyd not moue me therto phil I grauÌ„t that the authoritie of the churche dothe moue the vnbeleuers to beleue but yet the churche geueth not the worde his authoritie for the worde hath his authoritie only froÌ„ God not of man Men be but disposers therof for fyrst the worde hath his beyng before the churche and the worde is the foundacion of the churche and first is the foundacion sure before the buyldyng theron can be stedfast Chiches I perceaue you mistake me I speake of the knowlage of the Gospell and not of the authoritie for by the churche we haue all knowlage of the Gospel phil I confesse that For fayth cometh by hearyng and hearyng by the worde and I acknowlage that God appointeth an ordinary meanes for meÌ„ to come vnto knowlage nowe and not miraculously as he hath done in tymes paste yet we that be taught by men must take hede that we learne nothing else but that which was taught in the primatiue churche by reuelation Here came in the B. of Yorke and the bishop of Bathe and after they had saluted one an other and commoned a whyle together the Archbishop of Yorke called me vnto them sayeng Yorke Syr we hearyng that you are out of the waye are come of charitie to enforme you and to bring you into the true fayth to the catholike churche agayne willyng you first to haue humilitie and to be humble and willyng to learne of your betters for else we can do no good wyth you and God sayeth by the Prophete On whome shall I reste but on the humble and meke and suche as tremble at my worde Nowe yf you will so be we wil be glad to trauail with you phil I know that humilitie is the dore wherby we enter vnto Christ I thaÌ„ke his goodnes I haue entred in at the same vnto him wil with al humilitie heare whatsoeuer truth you shal speake vnto me Yorke What be the maters you staÌ„de on and require to be satisfyed Phil. My lorde and it please your grace we were entred in a good mater before you came of the churche and howe we should knowe the truth but by the churche Yorke In dede that is the heade we nede to beginne at for the churche beyng truly knoweÌ„ we shal soner agre in the particular thynges phil Yf your lordships can proue the churche of Rome to be the true catholike churche it shall do muche to persuade me towarde that you would haue me inclyne vnto Yorke Why let vs go to the definition of the churche what is it phil It is a coÌ„gregation of people dispersed through the worlde agreyng together in the worde of God vsyng the sacramentes and al other thinges accordyng to the same Yorke This diffinitioÌ„ is of many wordes to no purpose Phil. I do not precisely diffyne the churche but declare vnto you what I thinke the church is Yorke Is the church visible or inuisible Phil. It is bothe visible and inuisible the inuisible church is of all the electes of God only the visible consisteth of bothe good and bad vsing all thinges in fayth according to Goddes word Yorke The churche is an vniuersal coÌ„gregacioÌ„ of faythful people in Christ through the worlde which this word catholik doth wel expresse for what is catholike elles doth it not signifie vniuersal Phil. The churche is diffined by S. Austen to be called catholike in this wyse Ecclesia ideo dicitur catholica quia vniuersaliter perfecta est in nullo claudicat The church is called therfore catholike bicause it is throughly perfyt and halteth in nothing Yorke Nay it is called catholyke bycause it is vniuersally receyued of all Chrystian nations for the most parte Phil. The churche was catholike in the Apostles tyme yet was it not vniuersally receyued of the world but bicause their doctrine which they had receyued of Christ was perfect and appointed to be preached and receaued of the hole world therfore it is caled the catholike fayth all persons receyuing the same be to be counted the catholike churche And S. Austine in an other place writeth ad Neophitos that the catholike church is the which beleueth a right Yorke Yf you will learne I wil shewe you by S. Austine writing against the Donatistes that he proueth the catholike churche by two principall pointes which is vniuersalitie and successioÌ„ of bishops in one apostolycal sea from tyme to tyme. Nowe thus wil I make myn argumeÌ„t The churche of Rome is vniuersal hath had his succession of bishops from tyme tyme Ergo it is the catholike churche howe answere you to this argumeÌ„t phil I deny the antecedent That the catholike churche is only knowen by vniuersalitie by succession of bishops Yorke I wil proue it And with that he brought furthe a boke which he had noted out of the doctors and turned to his commoÌ„ places therin of the churche recyted one or two out of S Austen specially out of his epistle written against the Donatistes Here S. Austen manifestly proueth that the Donatistes were not the catholike churche bicause they had no succession of bishops in their opinion neyther vniuersalitie and the same force hath S. Austins argument against you phil My lord I haue wayed the force of that argument before nowe And I perceiue it maketh nothing against me nether it commeth to your purpose for I will stand to the tryall of S. Austen for the apê“bacion of the catholike churche where of I am For S. Austine speaketh of vniuersalitie ioyned with veritie of faythful successours of Peter before corruption came into the churche and so yf you can deduce your argumeÌ„t for the sea of Rome now as S. Austen might do in his tyme I would say it might be of some force otherwise not Yorke S. Austine proueth the catholike churche
abstractes of the scriptures and doctors Phil. What so euer you do make them they are no ground of my fayth by the which I ought to be Iudged London I must nedes procede against the to morowe Phil. Yf your lordship so do I wil haue Excepcionem fori for you are not my competent iudge London By what lawe canst thou refuse me to be thy iudge Phil. By the Ciuile lawe De coÌ„petente Iudice London There is no suche tytle in the lawe In what boke is it as connyng a lawer as you be Phil. My lorde I take vpoÌ„ me no great connyng in the lawe but you dryue me to my shyftes for my defence And I am sure yf I had the bokes of the lawe I were able to shewe what I saye London What De competente Iudice I wil go fet thee my bokes There is a tytle in dede De officijs Iudicis ordinarij phil Verely that is the same Competente Iudice which I haue alleged With that he ranne to his studye end brought the hole course of the lawe betwene his haÌ„des which as it myght appeare he had wel occupied by the dust they were enbrued withal London There be the bokes fynde it out yf thou canst and I wyl promyse thee to release thee out of pryson phil My lorde I staÌ„de not here to reason maters of the Ciuile lawe althoughe I am not altogher ignoraunt of the same for that I haue ben a student in the same sixe or seuen yeres but to answere to the articles of fayth with the which you maye lawfully burthen me And where as you go about vnlawfully to procede I chalenge according to my knowlege the benefyte of the lawe in my defence London Why thou wilt answere directly to nothyng thou art charged with al. Therfore saye not herafter but you myght haue ben satisfyed here by learned men yf you would haue declared your mynde phil My lorde I haue declared my mynde vnto you and to other of the bysshops at my last beyng before you desyring you to be satisfied but of one thing wherunto I haue referred al other controuersies the which yf your lordships nowe or other learned men can symply resolue me of I am as contented to be reformable in al thinges as you shal require the whych is to proue that the churche of Rome wherof you are is the catholyke churche Couentrie Why do you not beleue your Crede Credo ecclesiam catholicam phil Yes that I do but I can not vnderstande Rome wherwith al you now burden vs to be the same neither lyke to it S. Asse It is most euident that S. Peter dyd buylde the catholyke churche at Rome And Christ sayd Tites Petrus super hanc petrant edificabo ecclesiam meam Moreouer the succession of byshops in the sea of Rome can be proued from tyme to tyme as it caÌ„ be of none other place so wel which is a manifest probacion of the catholike church as dyuerse doctours do wryte Phil. That you would haue to be vndoubted is moste vncertaine and that by the autoritie which you allege of Christ sayeng vnto Peter Thou art Peter and vpon this rocke I wyll buylde my churche Marcke wel onles you caÌ„ proue the rock to signifye Rome as you would make me falsly beleue And although you can proue the succession of bishops from Peter yet this is not sufficieÌ„t to proue Rome to be the catholike church onles you can proue the successioÌ„ of Peters fayth whervpon the catholyke church is buylded to haue coÌ„tinued in his successours at Rome at this present to remayne London Is ther any mo churches theÌ„ one catholike churche and I pray you tel me into what fayth were you baptized Phil. I acknowledge one holye catholyke and Apostolyck churche wherof I am a membre I prayse God I am of that catholike fayth of Christ wherinto I was baptised Couentre I praye you can you tel what this worde catholyke doth signifie shewe yf you can Phil. Yes that I can I thanke God The catholyke faythe or the catholyke churche is not as nowe a dayes the people be taught to be that which is moste vniuersal or of moste part of men receyued wherby you do inferre our fayth to hang vpon the multitude which is not so But I esteme the catholyke fayth and the catholike churche to be as S. Austen defineth the same Estimamus fidem catholicam a rebus praeteritis praesentibus futuris We iudge sayth he the catholike fayth of that which hath ben is and shal be So that yf you can be hable to proue that your fayth and churche hath ben from the beginning taught and is and shal be then maye you count your selues catholikes otherwyse not And catholike is a Greke worde compounded of cata which signifieth after or according and holon a sumÌ„ or principle or hole So that catholike church or catholike fayth is as muche to saye the fyrst hole souÌ„de or chiefest fayth London Doth S. Austen saye so as he alledgeth it or dothe he meane thus as he taketh the same howe saye you maister Curtoppe Curtop In dede my lorde S. Austen hath suche a sayeng speaking against the Donatistes that the catholike faythe ought to be estemed of thinges in tymes past and as they are practised according to the same And ought to be through al ages not after a new maner as the Donatistes begaÌ„ to ê“fesse phil You haue sayd wel M. Currop after the meaning of S. Austen And do coÌ„firme that which I haue sayd for the significacion of catholike Couentre Let the boke be sene my lord London I praye you my lorde be content or in good fayth I will breake euen of let all alone Do you thinke the catholyke church vntil it was with in these fewe yeres in the which a few vpon singularitie haue swarued from the same hath erred phil I do not thynke that the catholike churche can erre in doctrine but I require to proue the churche of Rome to be thys catholike churche Curtop I can proue that Ireneus which was within an hundreth yeares after Christ came to Victor then bishop of Rome wisely Curtop to aske his aduise about the excommunicatioÌ„ of certayne heretikes the which he would not haue done by al lykelyhode yf he had not taken him to be supreme head Couentre Marke wel this argument Howe are you able to answere to the same Answere yf you can phil It is sone answered my lorde for that it is of no force neither this facte of Ireneus proueth nomore for the supremacie of the bishop of Rome theÌ„ myne hath done which haue ben at Rome as wel as he and myght haue spoken with the Pope yf I had list and yet I would none in Englande dyd fauour his supremacie more then I. S. Asse You are the more to blame by my fayth of my bodye for that you fauour the same no better Your othe is as great as if a
houre before masse and halfe an houre euen at masse lokyng for your coÌ„myng Phil. My lorde it is not vnknowen vnto you that I am a prisoner and that the dores be shut vpon me and I can not come wheÌ„ I lyst But as sone as the dores of my prison were open I came immediatly London We sent for thee to thintent thou shouldest haue come to masse Howe saye you would you haue come to masse or no yf the dores had soner ben opened Phil. My lorde that is an other maner of question London Lo maister chaunceler I tolde you we should haue a froward felowe of him he wil answere directly to nothyng I haue had him before both the spiritual lordes and the temporal and thus he fareth stil yet he rekeneth him selfe better learned then al the realme Yea before the temporal lordes the other daye he was so folyshe to chaleÌ„ge the best He would make himself learned You sayd before he was learened and is a very ignoraunt foole in dede Phil. I reken I answered your lordship before the lordes playne ynough London Why answerest thou not directly whether thou wouldest haue gone to masse with vs or no yf thou haddest come in tyme Phil. Myne answere shal be thus that yf your lordship can proue your masse wherunto you would haue me to come to be the true seruice of God wherunto a Christian ought to come I wil afterwarde come with a good wil. London Loke I praye you the Kyng the Quene and al the nobilitie of the realme do come to masse yet he wyll not By my fayth thou arte to wel handled thou shalt be worse handled herafter I warrant thee Phil. Yf to lye in a blind colehouse maye be couÌ„ted good handlyng both without fyre candle then it maye be sayd I am wel handled Your lordship hath power to entreate my body as you lift London Thou arte a foole and a verye ignoraunt foole Maister chaunceler in good fayth I haue handled hym his felowes with as muche gentlenes as they can desyre I let their frends come vnto them to releue them And wote you what the other day they had gotteÌ„ them selues vp into the toppe of the leades with a meany of prentiles gasyng abroade as though they had ben at lybertie but I shall cut of your resort And as for the prentises they were as good not to come to you yf I take them Phil. My lorde we haue no suche resort to vs as your lordship ymagyneth and ther coÌ„meth very fewe vnto vs. And of prentises I knowe not one neither haue we any leades to walke on ouer our colehouse that I wote of wherfore your lordship hath mistaken your marke London Nay now you thinke bycause my lorde Chaunceler is gone that we wil burne no moo yes I warraÌ„t thee I wil dispatche you shortly onles you do recant Phil. My lorde I had not thought that I should haue bene alyue nowe neither so rawe as I am but well rosted vnto ashes Chaunce Cast not your selfe wilfully a waye maister Philpot. Be content to be ruled by my lord here and by other learned men of this realme and you maye do wel ynough phil My conscience beareth me record that I seke to please God and that the loue and feare of God causeth me to do as I do that I were of all other creatures most myserable yf for myne owne will only I dyd lose al the coÌ„modities I myght haue in this lyfe and afterward to be cast to dampnatioÌ„ But I am sure it is not my will wheron I stande but Goddes wil which wil not suffer me to be cast awaye I am sure Chaun You are not so sure but you maye be deceyued London Wel synce thou wilt not be coÌ„formable by no faire meanes I wil ê“cede against thee Ex officio And therfore herkeÌ„ here to suche articles as I haue here written And I charge the to make answere to them And with that he red a lybel which he had in his haÌ„de of diuers articles And when he had done he had me answere phil Your lybel my lorde contayneth in suÌ„me two special pointes The fyrst preteÌ„deth that I should be of your diocese and therfore your lordship vpon diuers suspectes infamies of heresie goyng vpon me is moued to procede against me by your ordinarie office The which first is not true for that I am not of your lordships dioces as the lybel doth pretende And the seconde is that I beyng baptised in the catholike church and in the catholike fayth am gone froÌ„ them the which is not so For I am of that catholike faith and churche as I was baptised vnto London What art thou not of my dioces where are ye nowe I praye you Phil. My lorde I can not denye but I am in your colehouse which is in your dioces yet am I not of your dioces London You were sent hither vnto me by the Quenes maiesties coÌ„missioners and thou art nowe in my dioces wherfore I wil ê“cede against thee as thine ordinarie phil I was brought hither through violence and therfore my present beyng nowe in your dioces is not ynough tabrydge me of myne owne ordinarie iurisdiction neither maketh it me vnwillingly subiect to your iurisdictioÌ„ sence it commeth by force and by suche men as had no iust auctoritie so to do no more then a sanctuarie man beyng by force brought forth of his place of priuilege dothe therby lose his priuilege but alwayes may chalenge the same where so euer he be brought Chadsey Hath not the Quenes maiestie auctoritie by her commissioners to remoue your body whither she wil And ought you not to obeye herin phil I graunt that the Quenes maiestie of her iuste power maye transpose my body whither it shal please her grace to coÌ„maunde the same But yet by your lawes Spiritualia non sunt subiecta Imperatoris potestati Spiritual causes be not subiecte to the temporal power As for example you maister doctor yf the Quenes maiestie would appoint two temporal men to be iudge ouer you in certayne spirituall maters myght not you alledge the priuilege of a clearke and demauÌ„de competent spiritual iudges in your causes London Doth not a man I praye you Sortiri forum ratione delicti Phil. My lorde your rule is true in temporal maters But in spiritual causes it is not so which be otherwyse priuileged London What sayest thou then to the seconde article and to the other Phil. My lorde I sayd that I am not bounde to answere the seconde neither the reste onlesse the first be proued London Well suppose the fyrst may be proued as it wil be what wyll you say then to the seconde that you are not of the same catholike fayth neither of the same churche nowe as you were baptised in Phil. I am of the same catholike faythe and of the same catholike churche which is of Christ the piller and stablishemeÌ„t of truthe London Naye that you are not phil Ye as that I am London Your godfathers and godmothers were of an other fayth then you be nowe Phil. I was not baptised neither into my godfathers faith nor my godmothers but into the fayth into the churche of Christ London Howe knowe you that Phil. By the worde of God which is the touche stone of faythe and the lymites of the churche London
Howe long hath your churche stande I praye you Phil. Euen from the beginning froÌ„ Christ from his Apostles from theyr immediate successours Chanc. He wil proue his churche to be before Christ phil Yf I dyd so I go not amisse For ther was a church before the coÌ„ming of Christ which maketh one catholike churche Chance It is so in dede phil I wil desyre no better rule theÌ„ that which is ofteÌ„ tymes brought in of your syde to proue both my fayth and church catholike that is antiquitie vniuersalitie and vnitie Lond. Do you not se what a bragging folyshe felowe this is He would seme to be very wel sene in the doctors he is but a fole By what D. art thou able to ê“ue thy church name hiÌ„ thou shalt haue him phil My lorde let me haue al your auncient writers with penne ynke paper I wil proue both my fayth my churche out of euery one of them Lon. No that thou shalt not haue â–ª you shal see howe he lyeth S. CipriaÌ„ sayeth Ye lye my lorde ther must be one high priest to the which the residue must obeye And they wil allowe no head neither vicar general phil S. Ciprian sayeth not that ther should be a vicar general ouer al. For in his boke De simplicitate praelatorum I am sure he sayeth the coÌ„trarie Vnus episcopatus est cuius pars in solidum a singulis tenetur Ther is but one bishoprike which is holly possessed of euery bishop in part London Fet hyther the boke thou shalt se the manyfest place against the. S. Chedsey brought the boke turned to the place in an Epistle written vnto Cornelius then B. of Rome recited these worldes in suÌ„me that it went not well with the church where the hyghe priest was not obeyed And so would haue coÌ„cluded for the confirmacion of the bishops sayeng Phil. M. doct you misconstrue the place of S. CipriaÌ„ for he meaneth not ther by the hygh priest the B. of Rome but euery patriark in his precinct of whom ther were foure apointed in his tyme. And in wrytyng vnto Cornelius he meaneth by the hyghe priest hym selfe which was then chief B. of Affrica whose auctoritie the heretikes began to despice Wherof he complayneth to Cornelius sayeth the churche can not be well ordered where the chief minister by order after the iudgemeÌ„t of the scriptures after the agremeÌ„t of the people and the coÌ„sent of his felow bishops he is not obeyed London Hath not the bishop of Rome alwayes ben supreme head of the churche and Christes vicar in earth euen from Peter Phil. No that he was not For by the word of God he hath no more auctoritie then the bishop of London hath Lon. Was not Peter head of the church and hath not the bishop of Rome which is his successour the same auctoritie Phil. I graunt that the bishop of Rome as he is the successor of Peter hath the same autoritie as Peter had But Peter had no more auctoritie then euery one of the apostles hadde Chaunce Yes that S. Peter had for Christ said specially vnto him Tibi dabo claues regni Coelorum I will gyue thee the keyes of the kingdome of heauen the which he spake to none other of his disciples syngularly but to him phil S. Austyne answereth otherwyse to the obiection sayeth that yf in Peter there had not bene the figure of the churche the Lord had not sayd vnto him to the I will geue the keyes of the kingdome of heauen The which if Peter receyued them not the churche hath them not Yf the churche hath them theÌ„ Peter hath them not London What yf I can proue and shewe you out of the ciuill lawe that all Christendome ought to folowe the holy catholike churche of Rome as there is a speciall tytle therof De catholica fide Sancta Romana ecclesia phil That is nothing material seing the thinges of God be not subiecte to maÌ„s lawes And diuine maters must be ordered by the word of God not of man M. d ee What will you saye yf I can proue that Christ buylded his church vpon Peter and that out of S. Ciprian will you then beleue that the bishop of Rome ought to be supreme head of the churche Phil. I knowe what S. Ciprian writeth in that behalfe But he meaneth nothiÌ„g so as you take it M. d ee S. Ciprian hath these wordes quod super Petrum fundata suit ecclesia tanquam super originem vnitatis That vpon Peter was builded the churche as vpon the fyrst begynning of vnitie Phil. Be declareth that in an example the vnitie must be in the church he grouÌ„ded on Peter his churche alone not vpon men The which he doth more manifestly declare in the booke De simplicitate praelatorum sayeng in persona vnius Christus dedit Dominus omnibus claues vt omnium vtatateÌ„ denotaret In the person of one maÌ„ God gaue the keyes to al that he in significacioÌ„ therby declareth the vnitie of all men M. d ee Howe wil you vnderstand S. Ciprian So that were good in dede Phil. I thinke you can not vnderstande S. Ciprian better then he dothe declare him selfe London I will desire you master chauÌ„celer to take some paynes which master doctor Chadsey master Dee about his examinacion For I must god to the parliament house And I will desire you to tary diner with me phil Then maister Dee toke agayne his former auctoritie in hande for want of an other And would haue made a farther circumstaunce dysgressing from his purpose To whom I sayd he knewe not wherabout he went and here withall he laughed And I sayd his diuinitie was nothing but scoffing M. d ee Yea then I haue done with you And so went awaye phil maister Dee you are to yong in dyuynytie to reach me in the maters of my faythe though you be learned in other thinges more then I yet in diuinitie I haue ben longer pracrysed then you for any thing I can heare of you therfore be not to hastie to iudge that you do not perfectly knowe Chaun Peter and his successours froÌ„ the beginning haue ben allowed for the supreme head of the churche that by the scriptures For that cause Christ said vnto him in S. Iohn thryse feade my shepe pasce oues meas Phil. That is none otherwise to be takeÌ„ theÌ„ Ite predicate goo ye preache which was spoken to al the Apostels as wel as vnto Peter And the Christ said thrise pasce oues meas feade my shepe it signifieth nothing
elles but the earnest studie that the ministers of God ought to haue in preaching the worde God graunt that you of the cleargy would waie your duetie in this behalfe more then you doo Is this a iuste interpretaciō of the scripture to take pasce oues meas for to be lorde of the hole world In this meane while came in an other bacheler of diuinitie which is a reader of Greke in Oxforde belonging to the bishop And he toke vpon him to helpe master chaunceler Scoler What will you say yf I can shewe you a Greke Autor called Theophilacte to interprete it so Will you beleue his interpretacion Phil. Theophilacte is a late wryter and one that was a fauourer of the bishop of Rome and therfore not to be credited synce his interpretacion is cōtrary to the manifest words of the scriptures and contrarie to the determinacion of many general councels Scolar In what generall coūcel was it otherwyse that the bishop of Rome was not supreme head ouer al. Phil. In Nyce counsel I am sure it was otherwyse For Athanasius was there the chief B. and president of the councel and not the bishop of Rome Scolar Nay that is not so phil Then I perceyue you are better sene in wordes then in knowlege of thinges For I wil gage with you what you will it is so As you maye see in the Epitome of the councell Scoler I wil set Eusebius and shewe the contrarie and the boke of general coūcels He went into my lordes closet and brought Eusebius but the general councels he brought not sayeng for sauyng of his honestie that he could not come by them And there woulde haue defended that it was otherwyse in Eusebius but was not hable to shewe the same And so shranke away cōfounded Chan. The church of Rome hath ben alwayes takē for the hole catholike churche therfore I would aduise you to come into the same with vs. You se al the men of this realme do condemne you And why wil you be so singular Phil. I haue sayd and stil do saye that yf you can be hable to proue it vnto me that I wil be of the some But I am sure that the church which you make so much of Note is a false churche and a Synagoge of Satan And you with the learned mē of this realme do persecute the true churche and condempne suche as be ryghteouser then you Chaun Nay the Deuylles daughter Do you heare maister doctor what he sayeth that the churche of Rome is the deuil Chadsey I wishe you did thinke more reuerently of the churche of Rome ▪ What wil you saye yf I can showe you out of S. Austyne in his epistle writtē to Pope Innocentius that the hole generall coūcel of Cartage dyd allowe the churche of Rome to be chefest ouer al other Phil. I am sure you may shewe no suche thyng And with ther he set the boke of S. Austyne and turned to the epistle but he could not proue his allegacion manyfestly Thou falsifiest S. Austyne Chadsey but by coniectures in this wyse Chadsey Here you maye see that the coūcell of Cartage wrytyng to Innocentius the Bishop calleth the sea of Rome the Apostolike sea And besydes this they wryte vnto him certifyeng him of thinges done in the councel for the condemnacion of the Donatistes requiring his approbations in the same Which they would not haue done yf they had not taken the church of Rome for the supreme heade of others And moreouer you maye see howe S. Austyne dothe proue the churche of Rome to be the chatholike church The succession of false bishops and not of Christes faithe by continual successiō of the byshop vntil his tyme which successyon we can proue vntyl our dayes Therfore by the same reason of S. Austine we saye nowe that the churche of Rome is the catholike churche Phil. Maister doctor I haue considered howe you do waye S. Austyne And contrarye to his meanyng and wordes you would infer your false conclusion A false cōclusion indede As cōcerning that it was called by him the Apostolical sea that is not material to proue the churche of Rome nowe to be the catholike churche I wil graunt it now that it is the apostolike sea in respect that Paule and Peter dyd once there preache the Gospel and abode for a certayne season I would you could proue it to be the Apostolical sea of that true religion and synceritie as the Apostle lefte it and dyd teache the same The which yf ye can do you myght boast of Rome as of the Apostolical sea Otherwyse it is now of no more force then yf the Turke at Antioche and at Ierusalem should boast of the Apostolike seas bycause the Apostles once dyd there abyde and founded the churche of Christ And where as by that the hole coūcel of Carthage dyd wryte vnto Pope Innocētius certifieng him of that was done in the generall counsell and willyng him to set his helping hande to the suppressing of the Donatistes as they had done That facte of the councel proueth nothyng the supremacie of the bishop of Rome no more then yf the hole conuocacion house nowe gathered together and agreyng vpō certaine articles myght sende the same to some Bishop that vpon certaine impedimentes is not present willyng him to agree therto and to set them forth in his dioces The whiche facte doth not make any suche bishop of greater auctoritie then the reste bycause his consente is brotherly required And touching the successiō of the bishoppes of Rome brought in by saynt Austine maketh nothyng nowe therby to proue the same the catholike churche onles you can conclude with the same reason as S. Austyne dothe And the rehersall of the succession of the bishops doth tende to this only to proue the donatistes to be heretykes because they beganne aswel at Rome as in Affrica to foūde an other churche then was groūded by Peter and Paule and by their successours whom he reciteth vntil his tyme which all taught no such doctrine neyther no suche church as the Donatistes And yf presently you be hable to proue by the succession of bishops of Rome wherof you do glory that no suche doctrine hathe ben taught by any of the successours of Peters sea as is nowe taught and beleued of vs you haue good reason Agaynst vs. Otherwise it is of no force as I am hable to declare Chaun Well master doctor you se we can do no good in persuadīg of him let vs mynyster the articles which my lord hath left vs vnto him Howe faye you master Philpot to these articles M. Iohnson I pray you write his answeres phil Master chaunceler you haue no autorytye to enquire of me my belefe in such articles as you go about for that I am not of my lorde of Londōs diocese to be brefe with you I will make no further answere herin then I haue already to the bishop Chaun Why then let vs go our
principally by succession of bishops and therfore you vnderstaÌ„de not S. Austine for what I pray you was the opinion of the Donatistes against whom he wrote can you tell what contrey were they of phil They were a certen secte of men affirming among other heresies that the dignitie of the sacramentes depended vpon the worthynes of the minister so that if the minister were good the sacrament which he ministred were auayliable or els not Chiches That was their errour and they had none other but that And he red an other authoritie of S. Austins out of a boke which he brought euen to the same purpose that the other was Phil. I chalenge S. Austine to be with me throughly in this poynte and wil stand to his iudgement takyng one place with an other Chiches If you wil not haue the church to be certen I praye you by whom wil you be iudged in maters of controuersy Phil. I do not deny the churche to be certen but I deny that it is necessarily tyed to any place longer then it abideth in the word and for all maner of controuersies the word ought to be iudge Chichest But what yf I take it one way and you an other howe than Phil. S. Austen sheweth a remedy for that willeth quod vnius locus per plura intelligi debeat that one place of the scripture ought to be vnderstanded by the mo Yorke How answere you to this argument Rome hath a knowen successioÌ„ of bishops which your churche hath not Ergo that is the catholik churche and yours is not bicause ther is no suche successioÌ„ can be proued for your churche phil I deny my lord that succession of bishops is an infallible point to knowe the churche by for there may be a succession of bishops knowen in a place and yet there be no churche as at Antioche and at Ierusalem and in other places wher the Apostles abode aswell as at Rome But if you put to the succession of bishops succession of doctrine with all as S. Austine doth I will graunt it to be a good profe for the catholike churche but a locall succession only is nothing vayleable Yorke You will haue no churche then I se well phil Yes my lord I acknowledge the catholik churche as I am bound by my Crede but I can not acknowledge a false church for the true Chichest Why is ther twoo catholike churches then philpot No I knowe ther is but one catholike churche but there haue ben and be at this present that take vpon theÌ„ the name of Christ of his church which be not so in dede as it is writteÌ„ that there be that call them selues APostles and be not so in dede but the sinagoge of Sathan and lyers And nowe it is with vs as it was with the two women in SalomoÌ„s tyme which lay to gether and the one suppressed her child and after went about to chalenge the true mothers childe Chiches What a babling here is with you nowe I se you lacke humilitie you wil go about to teach and not to learne philpot My lords I must desire you to beare with my hastie speche it is my infirmitie of nature all that I speake is to learne by I would you did vnderstand all my mind that I might be satisfied by you through better authoritie Chichest My lord and it please your grace turne the argument vpon him which you haue made and let him shewe the succession of bishops of his church as we can do How say you can you shewe the succession of bishops in your churche from tyme to tyme I tell you this argument troubled doctor Ridley so sore that he could neuer answere it Yet he was a man well learned I dar say you will say phil He was a man so learned that I was not worthy to cary his bookes for learning Chichest I promise you he was neuer hable to answere that he was a man that I loued well and he me For he came vnto me diuers tymes being in prison and conferred with me philpot I wonder my lord you should make this argument which you would turne vpon me for the tryal of my churche wherof I am or that you would make bishop Rydley so ignoraunt that he was not hable to answere it since it is of no force For behold fyrst I denyed you that locall succession of bishops in one place is no necessary point alone to proue the catholike churche by that which I haue denyed you can not proue and is it then reason that you should put me to the tryall of that which by you is vnproued and of no force to conclude against me Chichest I se my lords we do but lose our labours to reason with him he taketh him selfe better learned than we phil I take vpon me the name of no learning I bost of no knowledge but of faith and of Christ and that I am bouÌ„d vndoubtedly to know as I am sure I doo Chichest These heretikes take vpon theÌ„ to be sure of all thinges they stand in you should say rather with humilitie I trust I knowe Christ than that you be sure therof phil Let him doubt of his faith that lysteth God gyue me alwayes grace to beleue that I am sure of his faith and fauoure in Christ Bathe Howe will you be hable to answere heretiks but by the determinatioÌ„ of the knowen catholike churche Phil. I am hable to answere al heretikes by the worde of God and coÌ„uince them by the same Chichest Howe arrogantly that is spoken I dare not say so Phil. My lord I pray you beare with me for I am bold in the truth syde and I speake some what by experience that I haue had with heretykes and I knowe the Arrians be the subtilest that euer were and yet haue I manifest scriptures to beat them downe with all Chiches I perceaue nowe you are the same maner of man I haue heard of which will not be satisfied by learning Phil. Alas my lord why do you say so I do desire most humbly to be taught if ther be any better way that I should learne and hitherto you haue shewed me no better Therfore I pray your lord ship not to misiudge without a cause Baâ—he If you be the true catholike churche than will you hold with the reall presence of Christ in the sacrament which the true churche hath euer mayntayned phil And I my lord with the true churche do holde the same in the dewe ministracion of the sacrameÌ„t but I desire you my lord ther may be made a better conclusion in our first mater before we entre in to any other for if the churche be proued we shall sone agre in the rest In this meane while my lord of Yorke was turning his boke for mo places to helpe forthe his cause Yorke I haue found at lenthe a very notable place which I haue loked for all this while of S. Austine de simpliciate credendi Chichest It is but folly
my lord that your grace do reade him any mo places for he estemeth them not Phil. I esteme thē in as muche as they be of force as your lordship dothe heare me deny no doctors you bring but require the true applicacion of them according to the writers meaning as by his owne wordes I do proue Yorke I wil reade him the place and so make an ende After he had red the sentence he said that by fowre speciall pointes here S. Austine proueth the catholike church The first is by the consēt of al nations the secōd by the Apostolike sea the thryd by vniuersalitie the fourthe by this word catholike Chichest That is a notable place in dede and please your grace philpot I pray you my lord of what church doth S. Austine write the same of Rome or not ▪ Yorke Yea he writeth it of the churche of Rome philpot I wil lay with your lordship as muche as I can make it is not so And let the boke be sene Bathe What arte thou hable to laye that hast nothing Yorke Dothe he not make mention here of the Apostolike sea wherby he meaneth Rome Phil. That is very straytly interpreted my lorde as though the Apostolike sea had ben no where els but at Rome But let it be Rome and yet shal you neuer verifye the same onles all the other cōdicions do go ther with as S. Austine dothe procede withall wherof none except the Apostolike sea can nowe be verifyed of the churche of Rome For the faythe which that sea nowe maintayneth hath not the consent of all nations nether euer had besydes that it can not haue the name of catholyke bycause it diffreth from the catholike churches which the Apostles planted almost in all thinges Yorke Naye he goeth about here to proue the catholike churche by vniuersalitie And howe can you shewe your churche to be vniuersall fyftye or an hundred yeres ago phil That is not material neither any thing against S. Austyne For my churche wherof I am were to be counted vniuersall though it were but in .x. persons bicause it agreeth with the same that the Apostles vniuersally did plāte Yorke I perceyue you are an obstinate man in your opinion and will not be taught Wherfore it is but lost labore to talke with you any lenger you are a member to be cut of Chichest I haue heard of you before howe you troubled the good bishop of Winchester before and nowe I see in you that I haue heard Phil. I trust you see no euill in me by this I desire of you a sure ground to build my fayth on and if you shewe me none I pray you speake not yll of him that meaneth well Chichest Thou arte an impudent felow as I haue commoned with all Phil. That is spokē vncharytably my lord to blaspheme him whom you can not iustly reproue Chichest Why you are not God blasphemy is counted a rebuke to God-ward and not to man phil Yes it may be aswel verified of an infamy layed to man speaking in Goddes cause as you nowe do laye vnto me for speaking frely the truthe afore God to mayntayne your vayne religion you are voyde of all good grounde I perceyue you are blinde guydes and leaders of the blind and therfore as I am bound to tel you verye hypocrites tyrānously persecuting the truthe which otherwise by iust order you are hable to do by no meanes Your owne doctors and testimonyes which you bring be euidentlye against you and yet you wil not see the truthe Chichest Haue we this thanke for our good will comming to instructe thee phil My lordes you must beare with me synce I speake in Christes cause and bicause his glory is defaced and his people cruelly and wrongfully slain by you bicause they will not consent to the dishonour of God to hypocrisie with you Yf I told you not your fault it should be required at my handes in the day of iudgement therfore knowe you ye hipocrites in dede that it is the spirite of God that telleth you your synne and not I. I passe not I thanke God of al your crueltie God forgeue it you and gyue you grace to repent And so they departed The same day at night before supper the bishop sent for me into his chappel in the presence of Archdeacon Harpesfild doctor Chadsey in the presence of other his Chaplayns and his seruauntes MAster Philpot I haue by sundry meanes gone about to do you good and I maruail you do so litle considre it By my truthe I can not tell what to say to you Tel me directly whether you wil be a conformable man or no and wher vpon you chifly stand Phil. I haue told your lordship often tymes playne ynough where on I stand chiefly requiring a sure probatiō of the churche wherunto you cal me Harpel S. Austine writing against the Donatistes declareth foure special notes to knowe the church by the cōsent of many nations the faith of the sacraments confirmed by antiquitie succession of bishops vniuersalitie London I pray you master Archdeacō fett the booke hither it is a notable place let him se it And the boke was brought and the bishop red it demaunding howe I could answere the same Phil. My lord I like S. Austins foure points for the tryal of the catholik churche wherof I am For it can abide euery point therof together which yours can not doo Harpes Haue not we succession of bishops in the sea and church of Rome wherfor then do you deny our churche to be the catholike churche Phil. S Austine doth not put succession of bishops only to be sufficient but he addeth the vse of the sacramentes according to antiquitie and doctrine vniuersally taught and receyued of most nations from the beginning of the primatiue church the which your churche is far from But my churche can auouche all these better then yours therfore by S. Austins iudgement which you here bring myne is the catholike churche and not yours Harpes Chad. It is but foly my lord for you to reason with him for he is irrecuperable Phil. That is a good shift for you to runne vnto when you be confounded in your owne sayenges and haue nothing els to say you are euidently deceyued and yet will not see it when it is layd to your face Here ende as many of Iohn̄ Philpots examinacions as came to the printors handes and assone as the rest may be come by thou shalt haue it good reader by the will of God In the meane tyme refreshe thy selfe with this praising God for the perseueraunce of this cōstaūt learned martir and praye hartly for the rest of Christes poore afflicted church Geue God the glorye Iesus is God with vs. An Apologie of Iohan Philpot written for spitting vpon an Arrian with an inuectiue against the Arrians the very natural chyldren of Antichrist with an admonition to all that be faythfull in Christ to beware of them and of other late sprong heresies as of
father he be one And none in the spirite of God can deuide Christ frō the substaunce of God the father onles a natural sonne may be of an other substaūce than his father which nature dothe abhorre Who can abyde the eternall generacion of the sonne of God to be denied synce it is written of him his generacion who shal be able to declare Esa 53. Is ther any true christiā hart that grudged not at suche faythles blasphemours Can the eye eare tongue or the other senses of the body be cōtent to heare their creatour blasphemed not repyned should not the mouth declare the zeale of his maker by spittyng on him that depraueth his diuine maiestie which was is and shal be God for euer Apoc. 3. Yf God as it is mencioned in the Apocalipse wil spew ypocrites out of his mouthe suche as he neither hotte nor colde in his worde why maye not than a man of God spitte on hym that is worsse than an hipocrite enemye to the godhead manifested in the blessed Trinitie which wil in no wyse be persuaded to the cōtrarie Iohan. 2. Yf Christ with a whippe droue out the of temple suche as were prophaners therof ought not the seruaūt of God by some lyke outwarde significacion reproue the villanie of those as go about to take awaye the glorie of him that was the buylder of the tēple Yf there were as muche zeale in men of the truth as there is talkatiue knowlege they would neuer be offended with that which is done in the reproche and cōdemnacion of frowarde vngodlye men whome nothing can please but singularities and diuisions from the churche of Christ which ought to be the mother and mystres of vs al to leade vs Gala. 4. into al true knowledge of the worde of God and not ymagine by ignoraūce takyng the word of God dayly an other Gospel and an other Christ as euery sect dothe separating thē selues frō Christes spouse which is the same that is the accōplishement of truthe Ephe. 1. hitherto neuer knewe O insatiable curiositie O arrogaunt selfe loue the original of al these heresies O pestilent canker of thyne owne saluacion O Arrian the ryght inheritour to Lucifer Esay 14. that would exalte his seate and be lyke to the hyghest whose fal shal be lyke where the synne is equal Yf God dyd hyghly allowe the minister of Ephesus Apoca. 2. for that he could in no wise abyde such as said they were Apostles and were not indede howe maye any laye vncharitablenes vnto me which for the loue of my swete Christ do abhorre al phantastical Arrians in suche sorte as al men ought to do that loue the sonne of God vnfaynedly Yf Moses be cōmended by the scriptures Act. 8. for strykyng an Egiptian that dyd iniurie to one of the people of God howe may he iustly be blamed which dyd spit at him that doth suche iniurie and sacrilege to the sonne of God as to plucke him from his eternal and propre godhead was there euer creature so vnkynde was there euer man so temerarious to stryue against the glory of his glorifier was there euer heretike so bolde and impudent as the Arrian is that durst take frō the sōne of God the glorie which he had with the father frō the beginning Yf Christ be the beginning Apoca. 1. ending of all thing as he testifyeth him self to S. Iohn how may he be but a creature like vnto others who may dissemble such blasphemy that hath any sparke of the spirite of God who may heare with patience the right wayes of the Lorde peruerted by these deuilishe holi Arriās hold his peace A lyuely fayth is not dōme but is alwayes ready to resist the gainesayers as Dauid sayth I haue beleued therfore I haue spoken Speake than you that haue tonges to prayse confesse against these Arriās exalte your voice lyke a trompet that the simple people maye beware of their Pharisaical venome and be not deceaued as now many are vnwares of simplicitie Suffre them not to passe by you vnpointed at yea yf they be so stonte that they will not ceasse to speake against God our saueour and Christ as they are al newe baptised enemies therto refraine not to spit at suche inordidate swyne as are not ashamed to tread vnder their fete the precious godhead of our saueour Iesus Christ Our God is a gelous God and requireth vs to be zelous in his cause Yf we can not abyde our owne name to be euel spoken of without great indignacion shall we be quiet to heare the name of our God defaced and not declare any signe of wrath against thē It is writtē be angry and synne not A man than maye shewe tokens of angre in a cause which he ought to defende without breache of charitie The prophet Dauid sayeth shal I not hate them O Lorde that hate thee Psal 138. vpon thyne ennemyes shall I not be wrathful I wil hate them with a perfect hatred they are become myne enemyes Aaron bycause he was not more zelous in goddes cause whan he perceiued the people bent to ydolatry entred not into the lande of promyse God loueth not luke warme souidiars in the batel of fayth but suche as be earnest and violent shall inherite his kyngdome Therfore S. Paule biddeth vs to be feruent in spirit you that are to colde in these dayes of the cōntet of the gospel aswel against these arch heretiks as others wherof there be at these daies stered vp by the Deuill an infinite swarme to the ouerthrow of the gospell if it were possible I exhort you not to iudge that euil which God highlie commedeth But rather to pray that God will geue you the lyke zeale to withstande the enemies of the gospel neyther to haue any maner of felowship with these Antichristes whom the deuil hathe shitten out in these dayes to defyle the Gospel which go aboute to teache you any other doctrine The gospel pure in K. Edw. dayes than you haue receyued in kyng Edwardes dayes in the whiche praysed be God al the synceritie of the gospel was reuealed according to the pure vse of the primatiue church and as it is at this present of the trew catholike church allowed through the worlde The spirite of God the holye Goost the thirde persone in Trinitie whom these wicked Arrians do elude and mocke hath taught the church according to Christes promise al truth and shal we nowe receyue an other vaine spirite whome the holy fathers neuer knewe Trye the spirites of mē by goddes worde and by the interpretacion of the primatiue churche who had promyse of Christ to receyue by the cōming of the holy goost the true vnderstanding of al that he had spokē and taught after the which we haue ben truely taught to beleue three persones in one deitie God the father frō whom and God the sonne by whom God the holy Goost in whō al