some_o to_o be_v obstinate_a or_o dissembler_n he_o may_v know_v who_o be_v to_o be_v bind_v and_o who_o to_o be_v loose_v which_o he_o can_v do_v by_o hear_v the_o diversity_n of_o their_o sin_n for_o if_o their_o sin_n be_v as_o red_a as_o scarlet_a if_o they_o be_v true_o penitent_a they_o be_v to_o be_v loose_v and_o if_o they_o seem_v never_o so_o small_a if_o they_o be_v not_o repentant_a nor_o humble_o contrite_a in_o heart_n for_o they_o they_o be_v to_o be_v bind_v while_o you_o seek_v to_o make_v a_o difference_n between_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o minister_n in_o the_o gospel_n of_o pardon_v sin_n more_o proper_o than_o the_o priest_n cleanse_v the_o leper_n you_o declare_v that_o you_o be_v not_o content_a with_o the_o sentence_n of_o saint_n jerome_n nor_o of_o so_o many_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n as_o make_v the_o case_n all_o alike_o and_o where_o you_o say_v it_o be_v not_o say_v unto_o they_o as_o unto_o we_o whosoever_o you_o punish_v with_o leprosy_n or_o 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be_v foolish_a sophistry_n in_o this_o case_n for_o except_o god_n first_o work_n in_o our_o heart_n by_o his_o holy_a spirit_n faith_n of_o forgiveness_n we_o can_v have_v but_o small_a comfort_n in_o the_o priest_n absolution_n that_o god_n do_v always_o 1._o wörke_a at_o the_o instant_n in_o which_o baptism_n be_v minister_v it_o be_v false_a if_o saint_n augustine_n doctrine_n be_v true_a who_o reach_v that_o baptism_n may_v be_v receive_v out_o of_o the_o church_n but_o can_v have_v effect_n but_o in_o the_o church_n that_o be_v if_o the_o party_n come_v from_o heresy_n and_o submit_v himself_o to_o the_o catholic_a church_n allen_n and_o so_o it_o be_v in_o penance_n where_o god_n the_o principal_a and_o the_o priest_n the_o secondary_a or_o seruisable_a cause_n joint_o forgive_v together_o for_o so_o the_o word_n of_o institution_n of_o this_o sacrament_n do_v most_o plain_o convince_v who_o sin_n you_o shall_v forgive_v they_o beforgve_v he_o speak_v in_o the_o present_a tense_n as_o though_o he_o will_v say_v as_o you_o forgive_v they_o or_o retain_v they_o ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la i_o forgive_v they_o or_o retain_v they_o and_o therefore_o save_v the_o honour_n of_o the_o master_n of_o the_o sentence_n he_o have_v not_o good_a consideration_n when_o he_o do_v hold_v as_o some_o other_o do_v after_o he_o that_o first_o man_n sin_n be_v remit_v by_o god_n in_o his_o contrition_n and_o purpose_n to_o come_v to_o the_o sacrament_n and_o afterward_o the_o same_o remission_n to_o be_v declare_v by_o the_o priest_n and_o as_o it_o be_v confirm_v by_o his_o approbation_n in_o confession_n be_v therein_o partly_o deceive_v by_o the_o say_n of_o saint_n hierome_n before_o allege_v who_o he_o take_v perchance_o to_o have_v compare_v in_o all_o respect_n the_o office_n of_o the_o old_a priest_n for_o the_o view_n of_o the_o unclean_a and_o we_o of_o the_o new_a law_n in_o the_o judgement_n use_v upon_o man_n sin_n and_o partly_o as_o i_o take_v it_o by_o a_o 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the_o priest_n for_o all_o that_o be_v his_o servant_n and_o minister_n therein_o and_o therefore_o by_o nature_n be_v a_o latter_a agent_n in_o the_o same_o work_n which_o else_o as_o i_o have_v prove_v joinilie_o pertain_v to_o they_o both_o for_o that_o the_o effect_n of_o a_o sacrament_n come_v not_o to_o any_o man_n till_o it_o be_v receive_v except_o it_o be_v in_o certain_a case_n of_o necessity_n where_o the_o party_n can_v not_o obtain_v the_o external_a rse_n of_o the_o appoint_a element_n though_o they_o earnest_o desire_v the_o same_o but_o how_o the_o old_a priest_n office_n touch_v the_o leper_n of_o the_o law_n represent_v our_o sacrament_n of_o the_o priest_n ministry_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o how_o far_a we_o which_o be_v the_o truth_n excel_v that_o which_o be_v but_o a_o shadow_n of_o we_o saint_n chrysostome_n do_v excellentlic_a declare_v and_o therewith_o full_o may_v put_v out_o of_o doubt_v all_o man_n that_o our_o priest_n proper_o work_v remission_n of_o sin_n as_o minister_n in_o the_o same_o divine_a action_n and_o not_o as_o declarer_n or_o approover_n of_o that_o effect_n which_o before_o be_v wrought_v 3._o by_o god_n himself_o thus_o he_o say_v corporis_fw-la lepram_fw-la purgare_fw-la seu_fw-la veriùs_fw-la dicam_fw-la haud_fw-la purgare_fw-la quidem_fw-la sed_fw-la purgatos_fw-la probare_fw-la judaeorum_n sacerdotibus_fw-la solis_fw-la liccbat_fw-la at_o verò_fw-la nostris_fw-la sacerdotibus_fw-la non_fw-la corporis_fw-la lepram_fw-la verùm_fw-la animae_fw-la sordes_fw-la non_fw-la dico_fw-la purgatas_fw-la probare_fw-la sed_fw-la purgare_fw-la prorsus_fw-la concessum_fw-la cst_o quamobrem_fw-la mco_o iudicio_fw-la qui_fw-la istos_fw-la despiciunt_fw-la contemnuntque_fw-la multò_fw-la sceleratiores_fw-la ac_fw-la maiori_fw-la supplicio_fw-la digni_fw-la fuerint_fw-la quà m_fw-la fuerit_fw-la dathan_n unà _fw-la cum_fw-la suis_fw-la omnibus_fw-la that_o be_v to_o say_v to_o purge_v the_o leprosy_n of_o the_o body_n or_o else_o to_o say_v as_o it_o be_v in_o deed_n not_o to_o purge_v but_o to_o discern_v who_o be_v clean_o be_v grant_v only_o to_o the_o priest_n of_o the_o old_a law_n but_o it_o be_v full_o grant_v to_o our_o priest_n not_o to_o purge_v the_o bodily_a lcprosie_n nor_o to_o snow_v who_o be_v clean_a purge_v but_o utterlie_o to_o purge_v the_o very_a filth_n of_o man_n soul_n therefore_o by_o my_o judgement_n whosoever_o do_v contemn_v or_o despise_v they_o they_o be_v much_o more_o worthy_a punishment_n than_o the_o disobedient_a dathan_n with_o all_o his_o company_n thus_o say_v this_o holy_a father_n with_o many_o word_n more_o which_o be_v worthy_a all_o consideration_n and_o remembrance_n in_o this_o case_n if_o the_o matter_n be_v not_o so_o abundant_a that_o it_o may_v not_o suffer_v over_o long_a abode_n in_o one_o place_n lest_o injury_n be_v do_v to_o other_o branch_n of_o the_o cause_n no_o less_o necessary_a to_o be_v know_v for_o full_a uphold_v the_o truth_n thereof_o 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but_o the_o promise_n of_o truth_n which_o indeed_o if_o it_o be_v show_v so_o manifest_a that_o it_o can_v come_v in_o doubt_n it_o be_v to_o be_v prefer_v before_o all_o those_o thing_n by_o which_o i_o be_o hold_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n but_o if_o it_o be_v only_o promise_v and_o not_o exhibit_v no_o man_n shall_v move_v i_o from_o that_o faith_n which_o bind_v my_o mind_n with_o so_o many_a and_o great_a knot_n unto_o christian_a religion_n let_v we_o see_v therefore_o what_o maniche_n do_v teach_v i_o etc._n etc._n these_o word_n declare_v that_o set_n aside_o the_o wisdom_n of_o the_o church_n ground_v upon_o the_o scripture_n which_o the_o heretic_n will_v not_o acknowledge_v there_o be_v many_o other_o thing_n that_o may_v justly_o hold_v he_o in_o the_o catholic_a church_n among_o which_o the_o name_n of_o catholic_n be_v but_o one_o and_o serve_v only_o at_o that_o time_n when_o the_o catholic_a religion_n be_v most_o common_o embrace_v therefore_o he_o deny_v not_o 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your_o faith_n build_v altogether_o upon_o humane_a presumption_n the_o ladder_n whereof_o be_v this_o you_o believe_v pope_n pardon_n because_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n allow_v they_o you_o believe_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n because_o it_o be_v the_o catholic_a church_n you_o believe_v that_o it_o be_v the_o catholic_a church_n because_o the_o people_n common_o call_v it_o so_o but_o of_o christian_a faith_n saint_n paul_n describe_v another_o ladder_n faith_n come_v by_o hear_v hear_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n preach_v by_o minister_n 10._o send_v of_o god_n so_o that_o against_o the_o authority_n of_o god_n who_o give_v both_o his_o word_n and_o preacher_n and_o by_o they_o true_a faith_n you_o have_v the_o general_a and_o common_a call_n of_o man_n which_o give_v authority_n to_o that_o company_n to_o be_v the_o church_n which_o be_v surname_v catholic_a which_o company_n so_o call_v may_v cause_v you_o to_o believe_v what_o they_o listen_v and_o this_o indeed_o be_v the_o 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who_z the_o limb_n of_o antichrist_n what_o honour_n be_v due_a unto_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n and_o what_o manner_n presence_n there_o be_v of_o christ_n upon_o earth_n but_o as_o your_o faith_n be_v they_o ground_v upon_o simple_a sophistry_n in_o suppose_v that_o which_o no_o wise_a man_n will_v grant_v so_o be_v it_o not_o now_o much_o differ_v from_o the_o same_o although_o you_o have_v learn_v with_o more_o craft_n to_o pervert_v a_o few_o scripture_n and_o to_o wrest_v the_o say_n of_o some_o dctor_n for_o a_o flourish_n have_v no_o more_o substance_n of_o true_a faith_n which_o be_v build_v upon_o the_o word_n of_o god_n than_o you_o have_v before_o for_o if_o your_o shameless_a principle_n be_v deny_v that_o you_o be_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n than_o you_o come_v back_o to_o these_o beggarly_a motyves_n as_o in_o your_o article_n and_o bristowe_v motyves_n be_v manifest_a be_v not_o able_a either_o to_o find_v the_o note_n of_o the_o true_a church_n in_o the_o 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same_o that_o christ_n say_v it_o to_o be_v &_o we_o believe_v the_o same_o the_o whole_a discourse_n of_o the_o doctor_n in_o that_o place_n be_v contrary_a to_o the_o error_n of_o the_o carnal_a presence_n where_o he_o show_v that_o the_o sacrament_n be_v the_o image_n of_o christ_n as_o man_n be_v the_o image_n of_o god_n though_o he_o be_v not_o equal_a with_o god_n as_o the_o sacrament_n be_v not_o equal_a with_o christ_n but_o a_o insensible_a thing_n yet_o nevertheless_o by_o grace_n be_v call_v and_o believe_v to_o be_v that_o which_o christ_n say_v of_o it_o this_o say_n of_o epiphanius_n do_v we_o allow_v and_o use_v as_o a_o inumcible_a argument_n against_o transubstantiation_n and_o the_o carnal_a manner_n of_o presence_n as_o be_v well_o try_v when_o in_o the_o conference_n at_o the_o tower_n it_o be_v oppose_v unto_o your_o client_n campian_n who_o have_v nothing_o but_o vain_a word_n to_o anoide_v it_o be_v a_o place_n which_o he_o neither_o understand_v in_o the_o 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he_o quotech_v for_o it_o the_o word_n of_o chrysostom_n in_o math._n ho._n 83._o of_o the_o translation_n of_o trapezuntius_fw-la be_v these_o quoniam_fw-la ergo_fw-la ille_fw-la dixit_fw-la hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la nulla_fw-la teneamur_fw-la ambiguitate_fw-la sed_fw-la credamus_fw-la &_o oculis_fw-la intellectus_fw-la id_fw-la perspiciamus_fw-la because_o than_o he_o have_v say_v this_o be_v my_o body_n let_v we_o not_o be_v hold_v with_o any_o doubtfulness_n but_o let_v we_o believe_v and_o behold_v it_o with_o the_o eye_n of_o underslanding_n and_o add_v pop_v antioch_n ho._n 60._o of_o germanus_n brixius_n translation_n these_o be_v his_o word_n quoniam_fw-la igitur_fw-la verbum_fw-la dicit_fw-la hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la &_o pareamus_fw-la &_o credamus_fw-la &_o intellectualibus_fw-la ipsum_fw-la occulis_fw-la intueamur_fw-la but_o because_o the_o word_n say_v this_o be_v my_o body_n let_v we_o borh_fw-mi obey_v and_o believe_v and_o behold_v he_o with_o the_o eye_n of_o understanding_n a_o three_o place_n he_o cit_v out_o of_o this_o father_n in_o i._o cor._n ho._n 24._o in_o these_o word_n hoc_fw-la idem_fw-la corpus_fw-la cruentatum_fw-la lancea_fw-la vulneratum_fw-la &_o quoth_v in_o caelum_fw-la extulit_fw-la this_o be_v the_o very_a same_o body_n who_o blood_n be_v shed_v and_o which_o be_v wound_v with_o the_o spear_n and_o which_o he_o carry_v up_o with_o he_o we_o grant_v as_o much_o that_o we_o receive_v in_o the_o sacrament_n the_o very_a same_o body_n of_o christ_n that_o be_v crucify_v wound_a dead_a and_o carry_v into_o heaven_n yet_o not_o come_v down_o to_o we_o but_o we_o as_o chrysostom_n say_v in_o the_o same_o homely_a by_o faith_n make_v eagle_n and_o ascend_v up_o into_o heaven_n where_o christ_n be_v yet_o the_o word_n be_v not_o altogether_o as_o our_o answerer_n cit_v they_o for_o immediate_o after_o the_o word_n vulneratum_fw-la follow_v fontes_n sanguinis_fw-la &_o aquae_fw-la 〈◊〉_d so_o orbi_fw-la salutares_fw-la scaturivit_fw-la flow_v forth_o 〈◊〉_d of_o blood_n and_o water_n healthful_a to_o all_o the_o world_n but_o he_o be_v to_o be_v pardon_v that_o have_v nothing_o of_o his_o own_o read_n but_o be_v fain_o to_o cite_v all_o out_o of_o other_o man_n note_n if_o he_o be_v not_o such_o a_o proud_a and_o malepert_a censurer_n of_o other_o man_n to_o proceed_v after_o these_o quotation_n and_o citation_n of_o the_o ancient_a doctor_n he_o come_v to_o his_o adversary_n to_o show_v how_o contrary_a they_o be_v in_o understand_v of_o this_o text_n of_o scripture_n this_o be_v my_o body_n they_o have_v find_v out_o say_v he_o a_o new_a exposition_n affirm_v that_o it_o must_v be_v construe_v this_o be_v only_o the_o sign_n of_o my_o body_n for_o which_o they_o have_v neither_o scripture_n nor_o ancient_a father_n for_o warrant_n or_o example_n but_o which_o of_o your_o adversary_n good_a sir_n give_v this_o construction_n this_o be_v the_o sign_n of_o my_o body_n some_o do_v interpret_v it_o and_o for_o that_o you_o may_v have_v warrant_n of_o ancient_a doctor_n more_o than_o ever_o you_o read_v if_o you_o dare_v deny_v it_o but_o this_o be_v only_o the_o sign_n by_o which_o you_o mean_v a_o bare_a sign_n to_o exclude_v all_o true_a feed_n upon_o christ_n in_o his_o supper_n none_o of_o the_o protestant_n your_o adversary_n do_v ever_o affirm_v what_o libertine_n anabaptist_n and_o other_o fantastical_a head_n have_v imagine_v we_o have_v nothing_o to_o do_v with_o it_o no_o more_o then_o with_o the_o eight_o several_a exposition_n number_v by_o luther_n or_o those_o 84._o gather_v by_o claudius_n de_fw-fr xancte_n from_o all_o which_o we_o disclaim_v and_o from_o all_o other_o save_v from_o one_o which_o be_v the_o true_a interpretation_n and_o yet_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o luther_n a_o enemy_n to_o this_o truth_n strein_v much_o &_o claudius_n ten_o time_n more_o the_o word_n of_o the_o christian_a protestant_n to_o so_o great_a number_n of_o interpretation_n among_o who_o if_o eighty_o more_o do_v utter_v the_o same_o sense_n in_o diverse_a word_n you_o will_v make_v no_o less_o than_o 80._o interpretation_n but_o because_o m._n chark_n acknowledge_v luther_n to_o be_v illuminate_v singular_o by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o he_o be_v compare_v to_o elias_n by_o the_o common_a phrase_n of_o all_o protestant_n our_o answerer_n take_v pain_n to_o repeat_v diverse_a bitter_a say_n of_o he_o against_o our_o interpretation_n of_o those_o word_n of_o christ_n as_o which_o he_o have_v reveal_v to_o he_o by_o his_o holy_a spirit_n a_o wife_n matter_n as_o though_o luther_n be_v singular_o illuminate_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v make_v a_o pope_n by_o m_n charke_n that_o he_o can_v not_o err_v in_o any_o thing_n or_o be_v compare_v by_o some_o protestant_n and_o in_o some_o respect_n for_o it_o be_v a_o loud_a lie_n that_o he_o be_v compare_v by_o all_o protestant_n to_o elias_n may_v not_o be_v deceive_v in_o any_o point_n as_o eliashim-selfe_n be_v but_o do_v our_o answerer_n trow_v you_o cite_v more_o true_o out_o of_o luther_n than_o he_o do_v of_o late_a out_o of_o the_o old_a writer_n that_o we_o may_v think_v perhaps_o he_o have_v read_v the_o latter_a more_o diligent_o although_o he_o have_v be_v little_a conversant_a in_o the_o former_a i_o will_v give_v you_o a_o taste_n by_o one_o or_o two_o place_n and_o first_o that_o which_o he_o cit_v out_o of_o luther_n epistle_n ad_fw-la argentinenses_n wherein_o he_o clip_v and_o geld_v out_o diverse_a whole_a sentence_n at_o his_o pleasure_n or_o rather_o as_o his_o note_n book_n do_v lead_v he_o so_o that_o it_o be_v plain_a he_o have_v read_v no_o more_o in_o luther_n then_o in_o the_o ancient_a doctor_n the_o word_n be_v these_o hoc_fw-la diffiteri_fw-la nec_fw-la possum_fw-la nec_fw-la volo_fw-la etc._n etc._n this_o can_v i_o not_o nor_o will_v deny_v but_o if_o carlostadius_fw-la or_o any_o manel_n can_v for_o five_o year_n past_a have_v persuade_v i_o that_o there_o have_v be_v nothing_o in_o the_o sacrament_n but_o bread_n and_o wine_n he_o shall_v have_v bind_v i_o to_o he_o by_o a_o great_a good_a turn_n for_o i_o have_v take_v great_a care_n and_o anxiety_n in_o discuss_v this_o matter_n and_o have_v endeavour_v with_o all_o my_o power_n and_o synowe_v siretched_a out_o to_o rid_v myself_o of_o the_o same_o see_v i_o do_v well_o perceive_v i_o may_v very_o great_o and_o especial_o hurt_v the_o papacy_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d etc._n etc._n moreover_o pope_n i_o have_v two_o man_n which_o do_v write_v unto_o i_o of_o this_o matter_n more_o right_o and_o sharp_o then_o carolostadius_fw-la nor_o sowre_v answerer_n the_o word_n after_o the_o capacitis_n of_o their_o own_o 〈◊〉_d but_o i_o do_v see_v myself_o captain_n no_o way_n be_v leave_v to_o escape_v for_o the_o text_n of_o the_o gospel_n be_v too_o plain_a and_o strong_a and_o such_o as_o can_v easy_o be_v overthrow_v
in_o stead_n of_o which_o word_n proper_o you_o crafty_o convey_v in_o the_o word_n true_o so_o your_o whole_a syllogism_n be_v a_o paralogism_n and_o may_v lawful_o be_v deny_v notwithstanding_o your_o conclusion_n as_o it_o be_v we_o do_v grant_v that_o the_o apostle_n do_v right_o and_o true_o remit_v sin_n by_o their_o ministry_n in_o the_o holy_a ghost_n but_o as_o it_o shall_v be_v infer_v upon_o your_o premise_n we_o deny_v it_o which_o can_v be_v gather_v but_o upon_o a_o false_a mayor_n whatsoever_o the_o holy_a ghost_n may_v do_v proper_o in_o remit_v sin_n the_o apostle_n may_v do_v by_o ministry_n as_o proper_o as_o for_o the_o comfort_n of_o man_n life_n take_v away_o by_o deny_v sin_n to_o be_v proper_o forgive_v by_o priest_n be_v a_o fond_a cavil_n and_o mere_a slander_n for_o we_o acknowledge_v it_o a_o singular_a comfort_n of_o man_n life_n that_o god_n have_v appoint_v man_n by_o their_o ministry_n to_o assure_v we_o of_o his_o favour_n and_o reconciliation_n in_o 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for_o what_o can_v be_v say_v either_o of_o god_n or_o man_n more_o proper_o or_o more_o plain_o than_o this_o who_o sin_n you_o shall_v forgive_v they_o be_v forgive_v who_o sin_n you_o shall_v retain_v they_o be_v retain_v i_o must_v needs_o heree_v complain_v of_o these_o unfaithful_a and_o unhappy_a time_n that_o in_o the_o continual_a loathsome_a brag_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o god_n word_n in_o perpetual_a toss_n and_o tumble_v of_o the_o book_n of_o the_o bible_n in_o endless_a contention_n and_o disputation_n of_o most_o high_a mystery_n in_o they_o contain_v have_v whole_o convert_v the_o clear_a and_o only_a undoubted_a meaning_n of_o such_o place_n special_o as_o most_o touch_v the_o very_a life_n and_o salvation_n of_o all_o mankind_n and_o which_o be_v of_o all_o other_o thing_n in_o term_n of_o scripture_n most_o open_a and_o evident_a full_a foolish_o and_o unlearnedlie_o have_v both_o the_o simple_a sort_n handle_v god_n word_n as_o in_o such_o gross_a ignorance_n of_o all_o thing_n they_o needs_o must_v and_o their_o new_a procure_v master_n also_o in_o not_o much_o more_o knowledge_n and_o far_o pass_v pride_n can_v not_o otherwise_o do_v but_o while_o they_o play_v themselves_o in_o thing_n of_o smale_a importance_n they_o be_v to_o be_v laugh_v at_o rather_o than_o lament_v but_o if_o the_o devil_n drive_v they_o far_o as_o he_o light_o do_v wherere_fw-la he_o see_v quiet_o possess_v and_o cause_v they_o to_o dally_v and_o delude_v the_o place_n of_o scripture_n that_o principal_o concern_v the_o state_n and_o salvation_n of_o we_o all_o then_o we_o must_v with_o all_o force_n resist_v lest_o we_o lose_v the_o fruit_n and_o good_a of_o our_o christianity_n what_o can_v be_v of_o high_a importance_n in_o the_o world_n or_o touch_v our_o soul_n and_o salvation_n so_o near_o as_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n of_o christ_n church_n by_o which_o grace_n and_o mercy_n through_o god_n appointment_n be_v procure_v &_o yet_o these_o bless_a fountain_n especial_o even_o these_o water_n spring_v everlasting_o to_o our_o life_n and_o comfort_n have_v these_o man_n most_o infect_v fulke_v you_o fare_v as_o though_o we_o deny_v all_o power_n of_o remit_v or_o retain_v of_o sin_n whereas_o we_o do_v most_o glad_o embrace_v all_o such_o power_n as_o christ_n have_v give_v we_o which_o we_o must_v so_o take_v as_o it_o be_v not_o dishonourable_a to_o the_o godhead_n that_o man_n shall_v exercise_v that_o which_o be_v proper_a to_o god_n himself_o the_o power_n therefore_o we_o grant_v but_o what_o manner_n of_o power_n this_o be_v we_o must_v inquire_v whether_o a_o absolute_a power_n for_o priest_n at_o their_o pleasure_n as_o you_o speak_v afterward_o in_o this_o chapter_n 6._o to_o forgive_v sin_n proper_o or_o a_o power_n to_o declare_v the_o same_o to_o be_v forgive_v according_a to_o the_o pleasure_n of_o god_n to_o they_o that_o repent_v and_o believe_v the_o gospel_n and_o also_o whether_o this_o power_n be_v to_o be_v exercise_v 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be_v find_v false_a in_o special_a when_o you_o come_v to_o prove_v the_o particular_n allen_n in_o the_o institution_n of_o sacrament_n christ_n word_n be_v ever_o plain_a without_o colour_n or_o figure_n as_o word_n that_o work_v with_o singular_a efficacy_n grace_n and_o virtue_n and_o therewith_o give_v to_o the_o minister_n just_a authority_n for_o the_o execution_n of_o christ_n meaning_n which_o can_v not_o be_v do_v in_o figurative_a speech_n and_o parable_n without_o infinite_a error_n do_v god_n speak_v parable_n when_o he_o institute_v the_o solemnity_n of_o so_o many_o sacrifice_n in_o the_o old_a law_n when_o he_o signify_v unto_o moses_n and_o aaron_n every_o several_a sort_n of_o beast_n or_o creature_n with_o their_o sex_n &_o kind_n &_o all_o the_o ceremony_n thereunto_o belong_v do_v he_o speak_v parable_n when_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lamb_n be_v to_o be_v institute_v do_v he_o speak_v by_o figure_n 12._o to_o abraham_n when_o he_o command_v he_o to_o circumcise_v the_o male_a of_o every_o of_o his_o people_n do_v he_o speak_v by_o figure_n when_o he_o institute_v 35._o the_o sabbath_n do_v he_o to_o be_v brief_a ever_o in_o the_o old_a law_n speak_v one_o thing_n and_o mean_v another_o when_o any_o external_a work_n by_o the_o charge_n of_o his_o word_n be_v to_o be_v practise_v for_o ever_o amongst_o the_o people_n in_o common_a speech_n in_o prophesy_v in_o preach_v in_o similitude_n in_o example_n utter_v for_o the_o declaration_n of_o many_o thing_n and_o for_o grace_n and_o variety_n of_o talk_n to_o stir_v up_o man_n industry_n in_o search_v the_o secret_n of_o the_o truth_n there_o figure_n of_o all_o sort_n be_v use_v but_o where_o by_o external_a word_n and_o action_n force_n of_o inward_a grace_n must_v be_v procure_v or_o perpetual_a usage_n in_o the_o church_n be_v
such_o a_o sacrament_n and_o of_o auricular_a confession_n as_o necessary_a allen_n moreover_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o old_a law_n be_v in_o many_o case_n do_v by_o the_o priest_n as_o well_o for_o private_a sin_n as_o open_v which_o can_v not_o be_v without_o the_o confession_n of_o the_o penitent_a ergo_fw-la much_o more_o the_o secret_n of_o our_o soul_n be_v subject_a to_o our_o priest_n to_o who_o christ_n have_v give_v all_o judgement_n yet_o all_o this_o notwithstanding_o there_o be_v some_o that_o keep_v themselves_o by_o vain_a excuse_n of_o sin_n from_o the_o very_a principal_a point_n and_o pith_n of_o this_o sacrament_n which_o be_v the_o particular_a examination_n of_o a_o man_n sin_n commit_v by_o thought_n word_n or_o work_v and_o will_v yet_o draw_v back_o and_o hold_v that_o a_o general_a confession_n be_v enough_o with_o term_n universal_a acknowledgeing_a a_o man_n self_n to_o have_v sin_n by_o mind_n word_n and_o deed_n though_o he_o express_v not_o the_o several_a point_n thereof_o but_o this_o opinion_n be_v confute_v both_o by_o all_o the_o fore_n say_v reason_n and_o other_o as_o a_o most_o absord_n and_o wilful_a maintenance_n of_o sin_n for_o by_o this_o rule_n he_o that_o kill_v and_o murder_v thousand_o shall_v confess_v no_o more_o after_o his_o wicked_a act_n then_o before_o nor_o no_o more_o than_o the_o innocent_a man_n that_o live_v david_n weep_v and_o confession_n shall_v have_v be_v one_o after_o his_o double_a deadly_a sin_n commit_v as_o before_o in_o his_o innocence_n peter_n shall_v not_o have_v more_o bitter_o go_v after_o his_o for_o sake_z of_o his_o master_n than_o before_o neither_o shall_v our_o confession_n then_o pertain_v more_o to_o ourselves_o then_o to_o other_o who_o by_o like_o general_a clause_n may_v true_o make_v the_o like_a and_o the_o same_o confession_n as_o it_o be_v now_o in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n but_o the_o holy_a king_n david_n confess_v not_o sin_n common_a to_o himself_o and_o other_o man_n but_o my_o sin_n my_o wickedness_n my_o impiety_n say_v he_o and_o this_o in_o confess_v to_o god_n that_o know_v already_o his_o sin_n how_o much_o more_o now_o where_o god_n judgement_n be_v exercise_v by_o man_n that_o can_v not_o discern_v our_o fault_n himself_o must_v we_o confess_v our_o sin_n that_o he_o may_v right_o judge_v thereof_o fulke_v the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o old_a law_n do_v in_o deed_n contain_v a_o confession_n of_o sin_n but_o no_o particular_a declaration_n unto_o the_o priest_n of_o any_o sin_n commit_v in_o secret_a therefore_o your_o conclusion_n be_v naught_o as_o also_o it_o be_v blasphemous_a that_o you_o say_v therein_o that_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o your_o priest_n all_o judgement_n but_o confession_n by_o a_o general_a clause_n you_o do_v not_o allow_v to_o be_v sufficient_a to_o salvation_n not_o answerable_a to_o christ_n meaning_n i_o pray_v you_o sit_v at_o the_o length_n bring_v forth_o those_o word_n of_o christ_n by_o which_o you_o know_v his_o meaning_n so_o well_o that_o you_o dare_v deny_v salvation_n to_o they_o that_o make_v not_o a_o particular_a confession_n to_o a_o priest_n by_o this_o rule_n you_o say_v the_o murderer_n of_o thousand_o shall_v confess_v no_o more_o than_o the_o innocent_a man_n alive_a very_o to_o a_o priest_n he_o be_v no_o more_o bind_v to_o confess_v his_o murder_n than_o a_o innocent_a man_n his_o l_a trespass_n but_o as_o any_o man_n sin_n be_v more_o heinous_a and_o grievous_a so_o ought_v he_o to_o bewail_v and_o lament_v the_o same_o more_o earnest_o before_o god_n so_o do_v david_n and_o peter_n after_o their_o several_a and_o grievous_a fall_n not_o to_o inform_v god_n which_o know_v their_o sin_n more_o exact_o than_o they_o can_v make_v confession_n of_o they_o but_o to_o stir_v up_o themselves_o to_o more_o earnest_a hearty_a sorrow_n and_o repentance_n for_o they_o that_o god_n judgement_n be_v so_o exercise_v by_o priest_n as_o you_o mean_v you_o must_v first_o prove_v &_o after_o use_v for_o a_o argument_n or_o else_o you_o beg_v and_o get_v nothing_o allen_n penance_n must_v be_v do_v for_o every_o of_o our_o sin_n so_o peter_n prescribe_v simon_n the_o sorcerer_n when_o he_o attempt_v to_o have_v buy_v the_o gift_n of_o god_n spirit_n that_o he_o shall_v do_v penance_n for_o that_o especial_a grievous_a crime_n poenitentiam_fw-la age_n say_v he_o ab_fw-la hac_fw-la nequitia_fw-la tua_fw-la do_v penance_n for_o this_o thy_o wicked_a 8._o attempt_n if_o perchance_o god_n will_v forgive_v thou_o this_o abominable_a intent_n the_o man_n be_v baptize_v not_o long_o before_o and_o then_o no_o such_o penance_n be_v prescribe_v for_o his_o most_o grievous_a and_o blasphemous_a practice_n of_o necromancy_n and_o witchcraft_n long_o exercise_v before_o wherein_o this_o naughty_a pack_n simon_n magus_n be_v a_o thousand_o part_n more_o religious_a than_o our_o new_a master_n for_o he_o desire_v the_o apostle_n to_o pray_v to_o god_n for_o he_o that_o this_o sin_n may_v be_v forgive_v he_o where_o these_o care_n no_o more_o for_o the_o priest_n or_o apostle_n concern_v their_o sin_n than_o they_o do_v for_o dog_n again_o saint_n paul_n do_v not_o only_o confess_v his_o sin_n by_o a_o general_a clause_n but_o acknowledge_v his_o own_o sin_n wherein_o he_o in_o his_o own_o person_n have_v offend_v he_o confess_v he_o be_v of_o all_o sinner_n the_o great_a that_o he_o have_v obtain_v commission_n to_o attach_v they_o that_o believe_v in_o christ_n name_n and_o so_o forth_o 15._o such_o as_o be_v faithful_a also_o at_o ephesus_n as_o we_o read_v in_o the_o 19_o of_o the_o act_n come_v to_o the_o apostle_n et_fw-la confitebantur_fw-la actus_fw-la suos_fw-la and_o confess_v their_o act_n and_o misdee_n in_o so_o much_o that_o certain_a which_o have_v follow_v unlaufull_a art_n as_o magic_a necromancy_n and_o such_o like_a curiosity_n confess_v their_o fault_n and_o burn_v their_o book_n before_o all_o the_o people_n fulke_v we_o must_v be_v penitent_a for_o all_o and_o every_o of_o oursinne_n that_o we_o know_v or_o can_v call_v to_o mind_n but_o that_o penance_n must_v be_v enjoin_v by_o a_o priest_n as_o you_o mean_v for_o every_o sin_n let_v we_o see_v how_o you_o can_v prove_v it_o s._n peter_n prescribe_v simon_n magus_n that_o he_o shall_v do_v penance_n for_o that_o grievous_a crime_n therefore_o penance_n must_v be_v do_v for_o eucrie_v of_o our_o sin_n although_o the_o antecedent_n be_v true_a yet_o the_o consequence_n be_v naught_o penance_n must_v be_v do_v for_o one_o open_a and_o heinous_a sin_n ergo_fw-la for_o all_o secret_a sin_n but_o i_o deny_v that_o any_o such_o penance_n as_o you_o mean_v be_v enjoin_v unto_o he_o by_o peter_n but_o that_o he_o exhort_v simon_n to_o repentance_n if_o he_o look_v to_o have_v any_o forgiveness_n of_o his_o sin_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d repent_v say_v he_o or_o change_v thy_o mind_n from_o this_o thy_o wickedness_n and_o not_o as_o you_o translate_v for_o this_o thy_o wickedness_n as_o though_o repentance_n be_v a_o satisfaction_n for_o his_o sin_n moreover_o i_o answer_v you_o use_v not_o to_o enjoin_v penance_n before_o man_n have_v confess_v their_o sin_n but_o when_o peter_n exhort_v simon_n to_o repent_v he_o have_v not_o yet_o confess_v his_o sin_n but_o be_v a_o covetous_a hypocrite_n 〈◊〉_d you_o dissent_v from_o your_o pupil_n of_o rhemis_n which_o deny_v that_o do_n of_o penance_n be_v prescribe_v to_o man_n before_o they_o be_v baptize_v for_o they_o translate_v agite_fw-la panitentiam_fw-la as_o well_o before_o baptism_n as_o after_o to_o do_v penance_n satisfaction_n for_o sin_n where_o you_o say_v that_o your_o new_a maisler_n care_v no_o more_o for_o the_o priest_n or_o apostle_n concern_v their_o sin_n than_o they_o do_v for_o degge_n it_o be_v a_o saucic_a censure_n of_o a_o dogged_a papist_n for_o they_o who_o you_o scorn_v do_v reverence_n all_o the_o minister_n of_o god_n as_o well_o in_o the_o power_n they_o have_v to_o remit_v sin_n as_o also_o in_o all_o other_o part_n of_o their_o office_n an_o other_o argument_n on_o have_v of_o saint_n paul_n example_n who_o confess_v his_o own_o sin_n and_o namely_o the_o great_a of_o persecute_v the_o church_n of_o christ._n yea_o but_o not_o his_o secret_a sin_n to_o a_o priest_n but_o his_o open_a fault_n before_o his_o conversion_n and_o baptism_n and_o so_o likewise_o they_o that_o believe_v act._n 19_o make_v open_a confession_n of_o some_o of_o their_o devilish_a practice_n commit_v before_o they_o be_v christian_n and_o in_o detestation_n of_o their_o former_a wickedness_n and_o sign_n of_o true_a repentance_n burn_v their_o book_n to_o a_o great_a value_n allen_n if_o the_o priest_n have_v nothing_o else_o to_o do_v with_o oursin_n but_o as_o they_o have_v in_o the_o old_a law_n to_o do_v with_o
the_o least_o they_o disdain_v to_o submit_v themselves_o to_o the_o priest_n who_o god_n have_v give_v power_n unto_o to_o discern_v the_o clean_a from_o the_o unclean_a but_o i_o will_v thou_o shall_v not_o beguile_v thyself_o by_o false_a persuasion_n or_o some_o respect_n of_o shame_n that_o thou_o have_v to_o confess_v unto_o the_o priest_n who_o be_v god_n vicar_n for_o i_o tell_v thou_o thou_o must_v under_o his_o judgement_n who_o god_n do_v not_o disdain_n to_o constitute_v his_o vicegerent_n but_o this_o doctor_n make_v a_o whole_a work_n of_o penance_n and_o the_o way_n of_o recovery_n of_o christian_a man_n fall_n after_o baptism_n by_o the_o priest_n judgement_n and_o sacrament_n of_o confession_n of_o the_o which_o book_n if_o any_o man_n listen_v doubt_n yet_o let_v he_o be_v assure_v that_o they_o be_v both_o ancient_a catholic_a learned_a and_o agreeable_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o saint_n augustine_n day_n whosoever_o make_v they_o and_o our_o cause_n be_v so_o much_o more_o holpen_v because_o not_o only_a saint_n austin_n who_o be_v plain_a in_o these_o matter_n upon_o saint_n matthwe_v gospel_n and_o else_o where_o as_o it_o be_v declare_v already_o but_o also_o other_o of_o great_a antiquity_n confirm_v the_o same_o and_o plain_o confound_v the_o pride_n of_o our_o day_n in_o which_o man_n be_v not_o somuch_o ashamed_a of_o their_o sin_n as_o they_o be_v disdainful_a to_o confess_v their_o sin_n unto_o a_o poor_a priest_n though_o he_o justly_o accupie_v the_o very_a judgement_n seat_n of_o god_n fulke_v you_o do_v wise_o to_o devorce_v upon_o his_o meaning_n when_o you_o have_v not_o his_o word_n to_o warrant_v you_o for_o so_o you_o may_v blind_v the_o eye_n of_o the_o ignorant_a to_o believe_v that_o you_o have_v some_o far_a intelligence_n of_o meaning_n than_o can_v appear_v even_o by_o the_o word_n that_o you_o have_v cite_v out_o of_o he_o for_o the_o 〈◊〉_d of_o condemnation_n be_v not_o by_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d against_o they_o which_o be_v ashamed_a to_o confess_v their_o fault_n to_o man_n if_o they_o amend_v they_o before_o god_n but_o against_o they_o that_o fly_v the_o knowledge_n and_o judgement_n of_o man_n and_o yet_o do_v not_o repent_v before_o god_n and_o therefore_o he_o say_v si_fw-la ea_fw-la confiteri_fw-la aut_fw-la emendare_fw-la noluerirt_n if_o they_o will_v not_o confess_v they_o or_o amend_v they_o and_o again_o si_fw-la in_o maio_n svo_fw-la permanserint_fw-la if_o they_o shall_v continue_v in_o their_o evil_n but_o if_o they_o will_v amend_v their_o fault_n and_o not_o continue_v in_o sin_n he_o dare_v promise_v they_o forgiveness_n and_o life_n everlasting_a as_o be_v declare_v in_o the_o last_o section_n but_o now_o you_o charge_v we_o with_o saint_n agustines_n authority_n and_o yet_o you_o will_v not_o abide_v by_o it_o that_o it_o be_v saint_n augastines_n authority_n wherein_o you_o deal_v more_o sincere_o than_o papist_n be_v common_o wont_a to_o do_v to_o acknowledge_v that_o these_o book_n you_o vouch_v be_v not_o admit_v for_o saint_n augustine_n authority_n among_o so_o many_o great_a and_o large_a volume_n as_o be_v certeinlie_o know_v and_o general_o receive_v to_o be_v of_o saint_n augustine_n writing_n where_o you_o can_v find_v nothing_o but_o these_o book_n of_o uncerteine_a credit_n to_o maintain_v the_o necessity_n of_o auricular_a confession_n the_o indifferent_a reader_n may_v well_o gather_v how_o little_a ground_n your_o purpose_n can_v find_v in_o that_o age_n of_o s._n augustine_n for_o that_o you_o have_v declare_v already_o out_o of_o s._n austin_n upon_o s._n matthewes_n gospel_n &_o else_o where_o how_o plain_a it_o be_v for_o these_o matter_n let_v the_o reader_n judge_v by_o that_o i_o have_v answer_v in_o those_o several_a place_n but_o as_o touch_v the_o book_n de_fw-fr visitatione_n 〈◊〉_d be_v one_o of_o the_o two_o treatise_n that_o you_o cite_v as_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o it_o be_v not_o of_o s._n austin_n writing_n so_o have_v it_o no_o similitude_n with_o the_o doctrine_n of_o his_o time_n or_o with_o the_o stile_n of_o any_o learned_a or_o ancient_a father_n the_o censure_n of_o erasmus_n upon_o these_o book_n be_v this_o sermo_n locutulei_fw-la nec_fw-la docti_fw-la nec_fw-la diserti_fw-la quid_fw-la habuerunt_fw-la vel_fw-la frontis_fw-la vel_fw-la mentis_fw-la qui_fw-la talia_fw-la scripta_fw-la nobis_fw-la obtruserunt_fw-la nomine_fw-la augustini_fw-la etc._n etc._n these_o book_n be_v the_o speech_n of_o a_o prattler_n neither_o learn_v nor_o eloquent_a what_o shame_n or_o wit_n have_v they_o which_o have_v thrust_v upon_o we_o such_o writing_n under_o the_o name_n of_o s._n augustine_n yet_o you_o dare_v assure_v we_o that_o they_o be_v ancient_a catholic_a learned_a and_o agreeable_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o saint_n augustine_n day_n but_o the_o reason_n of_o your_o assurance_n you_o spare_v to_o show_v give_v we_o nothing_o but_o your_o bare_a word_n which_o be_v sufficient_a among_o unlearned_a and_o sottish_a papist_n who_o ignorance_n you_o know_v will_v accept_v whatsoever_o you_o bring_v and_o therefore_o be_v carl_n what_o all_o the_o learned_a of_o the_o contrary_a part_n may_v judge_v of_o your_o impudent_a and_o shameless_a assertion_n concern_v the_o other_o whole_a work_n of_o penance_n which_o you_o affirm_v that_o this_o doctor_n make_v although_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o saint_n augustine_n be_v author_n of_o that_o work_n of_o repentance_n as_o it_o shall_v be_v easy_o grant_v that_o if_o not_o saint_n augustine_n yet_o some_o other_o ancient_a and_o learned_a father_n be_v the_o writer_n of_o they_o nevertheless_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o they_o by_o which_o you_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v the_o matter_n in_o controversy_n namely_o the_o necessity_n of_o confession_n of_o all_o mortal_a sin_n to_o a_o priest_n and_o therefore_o albeit_o you_o set_v a_o good_a face_n upon_o the_o matter_n you_o have_v never_o a_o sentence_n to_o set_v down_o out_o of_o those_o 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apud_fw-la quens_fw-la intercedebat_fw-la loquebatur_fw-la bonum_fw-la relinquens_fw-la exemplum_fw-la posteris_fw-la sacerdotibus_fw-la ut_fw-la intercessores_fw-la apud_fw-la deum_fw-la sin_n magis_fw-la quà m_fw-la accusatores_fw-la apud_fw-la homines_fw-la that_o be_v to_o say_v so_o often_o as_o any_o man_n come_v unto_o he_o to_o confess_v his_o fault_n and_o receive_v penance_n he_o so_o weep_v that_o he_o make_v the_o penitent_a to_o weep_v also_o but_o the_o fault_n themselves_o which_o they_o confess_v he_o utter_v to_o no_o man_n but_o to_o god_n alone_o to_o who_o for_o their_o sin_n he_o make_v suit_n leave_v a_o bless_a example_n to_o all_o priest_n of_o the_o posterity_n to_o account_v themselves_o rather_o as_o intercessor_n to_o god_n for_o sin_n than_o accuser_n of_o man_n before_o the_o world_n for_o their_o sin_n this_o say_v paulinus_n of_o saint_n ambrose_n whereby_o at_o once_o we_o see_v the_o judgement_n of_o they_o both_o for_o our_o matter_n fulke_v the_o 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penance_n the_o necessity_n of_o popish_a confession_n or_o of_o the_o purpose_n of_o satisfy_v the_o justice_n of_o god_n which_o no_o man_n can_v satisfy_v in_o any_o part_n but_o only_o christ_n have_v full_o satisfy_v the_o same_o for_o we_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v open_a blasphemy_n to_o say_v that_o god_n can_v not_o forgive_v a_o man_n his_o sin_n except_o he_o be_v willing_o to_o suffer_v due_a correction_n therefore_o for_o christ_n have_v once_o suffer_v for_o we_o and_o find_v eternal_a redemption_n that_o god_n require_v 10._o repentance_n in_o they_o that_o receive_v forgiveness_n of_o sin_n be_v of_o discretion_n that_o be_v such_o as_o hear_v the_o word_n and_o believe_v it_o be_v not_o so_o to_o be_v understand_v as_o though_o god_n be_v restrain_v of_o his_o power_n by_o the_o impenitency_n of_o man_n but_o that_o god_n give_v repentance_n to_o all_o such_o as_o who_o sin_n he_o forgive_v for_o except_o he_o convert_v we_o we_o can_v repent_v therefore_o it_o be_v 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not_o to_o recompense_v god_n justice_n but_o to_o make_v satisfaction_n to_o the_o church_n which_o be_v not_o to_o grant_v remission_n in_o those_o case_n but_o upon_o good_a hope_n of_o the_o party_n true_a conversion_n and_o inward_a and_o unfeigned_a repentance_n but_o as_o augustine_n speak_v here_o of_o open_a satisfaction_n not_o to_o god_n justice_n but_o to_o the_o church_n judgement_n so_o you_o have_v his_o authority_n or_o as_o good_a for_o secret_a satisfaction_n which_o be_v now_o more_o use_v lest_o any_o man_n shall_v fear_v that_o be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o satisfy_v for_o the_o remnant_n of_o the_o debt_n due_a for_o mortal_a sin_n forgive_v i_o know_v not_o whither_o to_o impute_v it_o to_o ignorance_n or_o impudency_n but_o most_o intolerable_a presumption_n it_o be_v to_o make_v that_o author_n whatsoever_o he_o be_v a_o falter_v of_o your_o popish_a secret_a satis_fw-la faction_n now_o use_v to_o be_v prescribe_v in_o your_o secret_a shrift_n for_o this_o 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but_o where_o he_o himself_o be_v judge_v nor_o any_o to_o have_v any_o voice_n determinative_a but_o only_o such_o as_o be_v swear_v to_o maintain_v his_o heresy_n and_o ambition_n it_o be_v great_a pity_n but_o the_o protestant_n must_v come_v to_o such_o a_o council_n such_o be_v many_o counsel_n hold_v of_o old_a time_n by_o heretic_n but_o for_o the_o most_o part_n not_o frequent_v by_o the_o catholic_n some_o of_o our_o profession_n be_v at_o trent_n but_o what_o entertainment_n have_v they_o even_o such_o as_o their_o adversary_n can_v afford_v they_o they_o be_v not_o permit_v to_o have_v any_o speech_n but_o as_o please_v their_o enemy_n wherefore_o when_o they_o see_v no_o equity_n use_v as_o they_o can_v look_v for_o no_o better_a before_o they_o come_v they_o leave_v the_o heretic_n to_o consult_v among_o themselves_o by_o example_n of_o ancient_a father_n in_o like_a chapter_n of_o heretic_n the_o sift_n way_n of_o trial_n be_v to_o refer_v the_o matter_n to_o the_o old_a doctor_n which_o live_v before_o the_o controversy_n begin_v of_o which_o we_o have_v speak_v late_o and_o this_o we_o have_v often_o use_v and_o still_o use_v against_o the_o papist_n in_o most_o controversy_n although_o the_o authority_n of_o man_n be_v no_o certain_a rule_n to_o try_v which_o be_v the_o truth_n of_o god_n augustine_n against_o julian_n use_v this_o way_n right_o first_o confute_v the_o pelagian_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o then_o by_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n also_o theodosius_n also_o in_o a_o case_n determine_v by_o the_o holy_a scripture_n do_v politikelie_a circumvent_v the_o heretic_n after_o the_o advice_n of_o sisinius_n the_o novatian_a by_o the_o suggestion_n of_o nectarius_n the_o catholic_a to_o put_v they_o to_o a_o foil_n which_o have_v good_a success_n because_o the_o other_o cause_n be_v naught_o but_o epiphanius_n have_v a_o hard_a say_n against_o we_o as_o our_o answerer_n think_v it_o be_v enough_o to_o say_v against_o all_o heresy_n the_o catholic_a church_n have_v not_o teach_v this_o the_o holy_a father_n have_v not_o admit_v this_o but_o i_o ween_v epiphanius_n do_v not_o mean_a that_o it_o be_v enough_o to_o say_v so_o except_o man_n can_v prove_v it_o to_o be_v so_o for_o else_o it_o be_v aseasy_a for_o heretic_n to_o say_v so_o against_o catholic_n as_o for_o catholic_n against_o heretic_n and_o here_o out_o answerer_n vouch_v epiphanius_n quote_v only_o lib._n 2._o contra_fw-la here_o but_o no_o chapter_n of_o so_o long_a a_o book_n whereby_o know_v he_o to_o be_v a_o common_a foyster_n we_o may_v well_o suspect_v his_o honesty_n in_o this_o voucher_n until_o he_o show_v we_o in_o what_o chapter_n we_o shall_v find_v it_o the_o sixtwaie_n of_o trial_n with_o he_o be_v to_o consider_v which_o be_v the_o catholic_a or_o universal_a church_n or_o great_a multitude_n of_o christian_n out_o of_o which_o the_o other_o part_n first_o depart_v but_o to_o consider_v which_o be_v the_o catholic_a or_o universal_a church_n be_v no_o way_n of_o trial_n but_o the_o matter_n to_o be_v try_v and_o the_o description_n that_o he_o make_v of_o the_o church_n be_v as_o uncerten_a the_o great_a multitud_n of_o christian_n out_o of_o which_o the_o other_o part_n first_o depart_v for_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v not_o always_o the_o great_a multitude_n when_o the_o east_n church_n be_v divide_v from_o the_o west_n the_o one_o be_v as_o great_a a_o multitude_n as_o the_o other_o yea_o consider_a the_o number_n of_o province_n of_o the_o east_n and_o the_o largeness_n of_o they_o it_o be_v the_o great_a and_o one_o heresy_n some_o time_n depart_v out_o of_o another_o as_o the_o rogatian_n from_o the_o donatist_n the_o eunomian_o from_o the_o arrian_n the_o jacobite_n from_o the_o eutichian_o etc._n etc._n neither_o do_v saint_n augustine_n against_o the_o manichec_n make_v the_o consent_n of_o people_n and_o the_o name_n of_o catholic_a of_o themselves_o to_o be_v a_o sufficient_a way_n of_o trial_n but_o among_o many_o thing_n which_o altogether_o hold_v he_o beside_o the_o authority_n of_o 4._o the_o holy_a scripture_n he_o account_v these_o which_o with_o the_o truth_n be_v a_o good_a confirmation_n but_o can_v be_v no_o prejudice_n against_o the_o manifest_a truth_n as_o he_o confess_v in_o the_o same_o place_n to_o the_o judgement_n of_o vincentius_n we_o will_v subscribe_v to_o hold_v that_o which_o every_o where_o which_o always_o which_o of_o all_o have_v be_v believe_v so_o have_v no_o point_n of_o popery_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la etenim_fw-la verè_fw-la proprièque_fw-la catholicum_fw-la quòd_fw-la ipsa_fw-la vis_fw-la nominis_fw-la ratioque_fw-la declarat_fw-la quod_fw-la omne_fw-la verè_fw-la universaliter_fw-la comprehendit_fw-la for_o that_o be_v true_o and_o proper_o catholic_a say_v vincentius_n which_o thing_n the_o very_a force_n and_o reason_n of_o the_o name_n declare_v
which_o true_o comprehend_v all_o thing_n universallie_o these_o word_n in_o rehearse_v the_o say_n of_o vincentius_n our_o answerer_n can_v not_o bear_v and_o therefore_o leave_v they_o out_o brag_v of_o universality_n antiquity_n and_o consent_n whereby_o his_o adversary_n spirit_n may_v quick_o be_v try_v but_o let_v he_o once_o attempt_v to_o try_v any_o one_o piece_n of_o popery_n by_o this_o rule_n of_o vincentius_n and_o so_o show_v it_o to_o be_v catholic_a as_o he_o describe_v catholic_a and_o he_o shall_v find_v it_o a_o hard_a matter_n to_o perform_v then_o to_o talk_v of_o examine_v his_o point_n by_o the_o authentical_a writing_n of_o the_o most_o ancient_a doctor_n for_o 200._o year_n after_o christ._n the_o seven_o way_n of_o trial_n be_v succession_n of_o pope_n in_o the_o seat_n of_o rome_n wherein_o the_o successor_n always_o teach_v the_o doctrine_n of_o his_o predecessor_n it_o must_v needs_o be_v a_o strong_a argument_n to_o prove_v the_o descent_n and_o continuance_n of_o one_o &_o the_o same_o faith_n from_o the_o apostle_n time_n this_o argument_n be_v use_v by_o saint_n augustine_n and_o optatus_n against_o the_o manichee_n and_o donatistes_n but_o this_o way_n of_o trial_n he_o know_v his_o adversary_n will_v not_o admit_v but_o he_o be_v deceive_v for_o see_v he_o join_v succession_n in_o doctrine_n with_o succession_n in_o place_n let_v he_o make_v trial_n when_o he_o dare_v and_o prove_v that_o peter_n and_o all_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n that_o live_v for_o four_o five_o or_o six_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n do_v hold_v all_o point_n of_o popery_n and_o have_v none_o other_o faith_n than_o the_o papist_n have_v now_o some_o of_o the_o late_a mightholde_v some_o few_o and_o of_o the_o best_a error_n but_o let_v they_o show_v all_o in_o every_o one_o and_o take_v all_o but_o that_o shall_v thev_n never_o be_v able_a to_o do_v brag_v they_o of_o succession_n as_o long_o as_o they_o listen_v the_o eight_o way_n of_o trial_n be_v to_o examine_v what_o part_n do_v hold_v any_o old_a condemn_a heresy_n for_o the_o true_a church_n can_v never_o admit_v or_o defend_v any_o heresy_n for_o otherwise_o she_o can_v not_o be_v the_o pillar_n of_o truth_n the_o true_a church_n may_v err_v in_o matter_n which_o be_v not_o of_o necessity_n to_o salvation_n &_o yet_o be_v the_o pillar_n of_o trueh_n so_o long_o as_o she_o hold_v all_o truth_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n yea_o some_o true_a church_n may_v be_v 3._o seduce_v for_o a_o time_n with_o heretical_a opinion_n as_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n and_o galatia_n but_o not_o obstinate_o defend_v they_o nor_o continue_v in_o they_o for_o of_o a_o particular_a church_n as_o the_o church_n of_o ephesus_n the_o apostle_n speak_v wherein_o timothy_n have_v his_o conversation_n but_o we_o believe_v say_v the_o answerer_n with_o holy_a athanasius_n in_o his_o creed_n that_o he_o which_o hold_v not_o the_o faith_n whole_o in_o all_o point_n shall_v perish_v eternal_o howsoever_o our_o adversary_n do_v salve_v the_o matter_n in_o their_o prophet_n berengarius_fw-la husse_n wicklife_o and_o luther_n who_o they_o say_v to_o have_v be_v holy_a man_n and_o yet_o to_o have_v err_v in_o diverse_a point_n offaith_o and_o to_o have_v hold_v their_o error_n obstinate_o to_o the_o day_n of_o their_o death_n and_o we_o believe_v with_o holy_a athanasius_n that_o whoesoever_o shall_v not_o hold_v that_o catholic_a faith_n which_o he_o or_o whoesoever_o under_o his_o name_n set_v down_o in_o that_o symbol_n or_o creed_n whole_a and_o undefiled_a without_o doubt_n he_o shall_v perish_v eternal_o but_o not_o every_o one_o that_o err_v in_o any_o small_a point_n of_o doctrine_n or_o faith_n which_o be_v not_o of_o the_o foundation_n of_o our_o religion_n for_o so_o do_v not_o athanasius_n say_v and_o our_o adversary_n falsisi_v both_o his_o word_n and_o meaning_n to_o draw_v he_o to_o that_o sense_n of_o he_o now_o if_o berengarius_fw-la wicklife_o husse_o luther_n can_v be_v convince_v of_o any_o heresy_n contrary_a to_o athanasius_n creed_n though_o they_o err_v in_o other_o point_n they_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o his_o sentence_n of_o eternal_a damnation_n more_o than_o cyprian_a augustine_n hierome_n who_o err_v also_o in_o some_o point_n of_o doctrine_n yet_o be_v right_o account_v saint_n and_o elect_v of_o god_n as_o they_o which_o hold_v the_o foundation_n and_o all_o article_n of_o faith_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n but_o where_o he_o charge_v usto_fw-la say_v that_o berengarius_fw-la husse_n etc._n etc._n do_v err_v in_o diverse_a point_n of_o faith_n mean_v thereby_o diverse_a article_n of_o athanasius_n creed_n he_o do_v we_o and_o they_o great_a injury_n for_o that_o we_o neither_o say_v nor_o think_v neither_o say_v we_o that_o they_o do_v obstinate_o hold_v those_o error_n wherein_o they_o be_v deceive_v although_o they_o do_v stiflie_o hold_v they_o not_o as_o heretic_n which_o be_v condemn_v in_o their_o own_o conscience_n but_o as_o man_n deceive_v with_o zeal_n of_o truth_n even_o in_o those_o point_n wherein_o they_o be_v deceive_v but_o we_o believe_v say_v he_o the_o contrary_a by_o which_o belief_n he_o will_v condemn_v the_o best_a and_o most_o ancient_a catholic_a father_n who_o as_o man_n hold_v every_o one_o of_o they_o 42._o for_o the_o most_o part_n one_o error_n as_o have_v be_v show_v but_o whoesoever_o can_v show_v say_v he_o but_o one_o confess_v heresy_n to_o be_v defend_v by_o our_o church_n there_o need_v no_o more_o disputation_n about_o the_o matter_n it_o will_v be_v a_o hard_a matter_n to_o make_v the_o papist_n confess_v that_o their_o church_n hold_v any_o heresy_n but_o it_o have_v be_v often_o show_v that_o the_o popish_a church_n hold_v many_o thing_n of_o old_a time_n condemn_v for_o heresy_n as_o worspipe_v of_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o carpocratites_n and_o gnostike_n invocation_n of_o angel_n in_o the_o caianes_n licens_v of_o woman_n to_o baptise_v in_o the_o marcionite_n worspipe_v of_o angel_n of_o man_n and_o woman_n that_o be_v dead_a in_o the_o collyridians_n and_o such_o like_a but_o for_o the_o right_a use_n of_o this_o trial_n he_o require_v two_o condition_n to_o be_v observe_v the_o first_o be_v that_o the_o party_n do_v in_o deed_n hold_v that_o which_o be_v object_v and_o not_o a_o certain_a likelihood_n of_o it_o in_o which_o point_n he_o charge_v we_o to_o slander_v they_o with_o the_o heresy_n of_o pelagius_n concern_v free_a will_n who_o hold_v that_o man_n without_o the_o help_n of_o god_n grace_n by_o the_o power_n and_o force_v of_o nature_n can_v work_v well_o but_o they_o require_v that_o a_o man_n shall_v be_v prevent_v and_o holpen_v with_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n in_o truth_n we_o do_v not_o object_v unto_o they_o all_o article_n of_o pelagius_n heresy_n but_o yet_o they_o be_v not_o free_a for_o pelagius_n hold_v that_o by_o the_o power_n of_o nature_n man_n may_v keep_v god_n law_n but_o more_o easy_o by_o the_o help_n of_o god_n grace_n the_o former_a the_o papist_n hold_v not_o but_o they_o hold_v the_o latter_a that_o a_o man_n holpen_v with_o god_n grace_n have_v freewill_n and_o power_n to_o keep_v god_n law_n their_o doctrine_n also_o of_o merit_n ex_fw-la congruo_fw-la of_o work_n preparatorie_n before_o grace_n and_o such_o like_a be_v nothing_o else_o but_o branch_n of_o the_o pelagian_a heresy_n the_o like_a injury_n he_o say_v we_o do_v they_o in_o object_v the_o heresy_n of_o those_o that_o do_v sacrifice_n to_o 79._o our_o lady_n which_o they_o do_v not_o a_o great_a injury_n i_o promise_v you_o the_o collyridians_n offer_a cake_n only_o to_o she_o the_o papist_n offer_v candle_n ouch_n and_o brouche_n money_n and_o jewel_n the_o collyridians_n do_v garnish_v a_o chariot_n where_o her_o image_n be_v the_o papist_n adorn_v tabernacle_n as_o they_o call_v they_o yea_o chapel_n altar_n and_o church_n to_o worship_v she_o epiphanius_n condemn_v the_o study_n of_o make_v her_o image_n and_o the_o image_n of_o dead_a saint_n as_o a_o devellish_a attempt_n he_o inveigh_v most_o severelie_o against_o the_o worship_v of_o the_o virgin_n marie_n of_o angel_n and_o of_o saint_n depart_v yetall_n this_o be_v catholic_a among_o the_o papist_n and_o we_o offer_v they_o injury_n to_o charge_v they_o with_o this_o old_a heresy_n because_o they_o do_v not_o offer_v cake_n as_o the_o collyridians_n do_v the_o second_o condition_n be_v that_o the_o heresy_n object_v be_v account_v &_o condemn_v for_o a_o heresy_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n &_o not_o only_o hold_v by_o a_o heretic_n for_o heretic_n hold_v many_o truth_n together_o with_o their_o heresy_n and_o here_o he_o complain_v that_o doctor_n fulke_n do_v they_o wrong_n in_o say_v that_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a be_v a_o heresy_n because_o the_o montaniste_n which_o be_v