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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A18080 The second replie of Thomas Cartwright: agaynst Maister Doctor Whitgiftes second answer, touching the Churche discipline Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603. 1575 (1575) STC 4714; ESTC S107569 585,778 717

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may_v allege_v the_o supply_n off_o archdeacon_n chauncelor_n etc_n etc_n in_o their_o absence_n so_o the_o pope_n advocate_n may_v pretend_v his_o deputation_n off_o cardinal_n etc_n etc_n he_o answer_v that_o the_o office_n off_o bishop_n and_o archbishop_n may_v be_v well_o excute_v so_o far_o as_o it_o be_v convenient_a for_o the_o estate_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v that_o in_o question_n where_o likewise_o otherwhere_o i_o allege_v to_o this_o purpose_n 466._o that_o his_o bishop_n and_o archbishop_n have_v their_o charge_n assign_v by_o he_o the_o same_o with_o a_o come_v pastor_n the_o government_n only_o except_v be_v thereby_o bind_v to_o pastoral_a preach_n and_o minister_a off_o sacrament_n in_o all_o the_o parish_n off_o their_o jurisdiction_n which_o be_v impossible_a he_o stagger_v to_o and_o from_o say_n the_o bishop_n have_v to_o procure_v his_o diocese_n be_v much_o as_o in_o he_o lie_v whereas_o he_o be_v charge_v for_o lay_v hand_n to_o more_o than_o he_o 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bishop_n now_o let_v we_o see_v his_o reason_n the_o first_o be_v celestinus_fw-la bishop_n of_o rome_n claim_v the_o hear_n of_o matter_n in_o the_o african_a church_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o african_a council_n but_o how_o do_v he_o not_o see_v that_o the_o council_n off_o carthage_n the_o canon_n whereof_o i_o allege_v be_v before_o that_o council_n his_o answer_n therefore_o be_v that_z the_o council_n off_o carthage_n by_o way_n off_o propheceye_v decree_v against_o the_o ambition_n off_o celestinus_fw-la not_o then_o bishop_n and_o although_o this_o be_v absurd_a yet_o that_o which_o follow_v be_v yet_o more_o that_o this_o canon_n shall_v be_v to_o provide_v against_o the_o ambition_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o constantinople_n which_o challenge_v the_o name_n off_o universal_a bishop_n about_o two_o hundred_o year_n after_o this_o canon_n make_v to_o understand_v fault_n so_o particular_o and_o provide_v remedy_n so_o especial_a against_o they_o before_o they_o be_v require_v 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time_n to_o that_o i_o allege_v off_o the_o name_n off_o acoluthe_n and_o subdeacons_n etc_n etc_n ancient_a and_o yet_o not_o convenient_a he_o answer_v peradventure_o they_o be_v profitable_a so_o the_o profit_n off_o tharchdeacon_n be_v yet_o upon_o the_o die_n and_o in_o dowbt_n we_o must_v notwithstanding_o have_v he_o thrust_v upon_o we_o to_o that_o off_o monk_n ancient_a than_o thardeacon_n he_o answer_v nothing_o but_o that_o it_o follow_v not_o if_o they_o be_v unlawful_a that_o tharchdeacon_n be_v so_o but_o it_o follow_v well_o that_o if_o the_o monk_n with_o other_o be_v antichristian_a notwithstanding_o their_o ancienty_n that_o it_o be_v a_o evil_a proof_n you_o use_v that_o the_o archdeacon_n &c._a &c._a be_v not_o antichristian_a because_o they_o be_v ancient_a wherein_o stand_v all_o your_o proof_n whereas_o he_o say_v his_o purpose_n be_v only_o to_o show_v the_o antiquity_n of_o these_o name_n and_o therefore_o i_o do_v he_o wrong_n which_o require_v he_o shall_v 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this_o testimony_n of_o epiphanius_n and_o further_o say_v of_o wickleve_v that_o therefore_o he_o take_v away_o the_o difference_n between_o bishop_n and_o elder_a because_o he_o can_v not_o obtain_v the_o bishopric_n of_o worcester_n and_o in_o contr_n a_o other_o book_n inveigh_v sharp_o against_o they_o for_o that_o they_o will_v have_v neither_o pope_n nor_o primate_n nor_o archbishop_n nor_o bishop_n and_o that_o it_o may_v yet_o appear_v even_o to_o the_o simple_a reader_n that_o they_o have_v the_o same_o cause_n against_o pigghius_n and_o the_o papist_n which_o we_o against_o the_o d._n i_o offer_v to_o his_o consideration_n beside_o the_o two_o flat_a testimony_n of_o m_o barnes_n and_o hooper_n cap._n before_o cite_v m._n wickleves_fw-la ten_o article_n in_o these_o word_n fox_n there_o be_v 12_o disciple_n of_o antichrist_n pope_n cardinal_n patriarch_n archbishope_n bishop_n archedeacons_n official_n dean_n monk_n canon_n friar_n and_o pardoner_n if_o the_o d._n say_v that_o wickleve_n speak_v that_o not_o off_o the_o office_n but_o off_o their_o abuse_n in_o popery_n that_o shift_n will_v not_o serve_v consider_v that_o he_o leave_v out_o priest_n and_o deacon_n whereof_o the_o priest_n especial_o do_v more_o mischief_n then_o diverse_a which_o be_v reckon_v yet_o because_o he_o occupy_v the_o place_n off_o the_o pastor_n in_o every_o congregation_n which_o be_v the_o ordinance_n off_o god_n and_o be_v only_o a_o depravation_n and_o deformity_n off_o the_o true_a ministry_n he_o spare_v he_o the_o other_o because_o they_o be_v devise_v partly_o harbinger_n to_o prepare_v his_o way_n partly_o puruc●ers_n to_o entertain_v his_o estate_n he_o mark_v with_o the_o black_a coal_n off_o antichristianity_n if_o it_o be_v further_o say_v that_o wickleve_n shall_v by_o this_o mean_n condemn_v the_o estate_n off_o a_o bishop_n which_o s._n paul_n allow_v off_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o he_o bet_v against_o the_o lord_n bishop_n which_o rule_v over_o other_o 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etc_n howbeit_o such_o gift_n cause_v no_o inequality_n or_o lordship_n in_o the_o church_n here_o i_o will_v also_o set_v down_o the_o judgement_n off_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o helvetia_n zurich_n berne_n geneva_n polonia_n hungry_a scotland_n etc_n etc_n who_o have_v reckon_v the_o ministry_n specify_v in_o scripture_n add_v in_o the_o time_n confession_n follow_a there_o be_v many_o other_o title_n off_o minister_n browght_v into_o the_o church_n for_o some_o be_v ordain_v patriarch_n some_o archbishop_n other_o suffragan_n also_o metropolitan_n archelder_n etc_n etc_n but_o for_o all_o those_o we_o pass_v not_o either_o what_o they_o be_v in_o time_n past_a or_o be_v now_o the_o apostle_n doctrine_n of_o the_o minister_n be_v sufficient_a for_o us._n if_o all_o these_o church_n make_v not_o account_v off_o these_o office_n not_o only_o as_o they_o be_v now_o but_o when_o they_o be_v at_o the_o best_a if_o they_o esteem_v they_o without_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o apostle_n i_o leave_v to_o the_o reader_n judgement_n what_o estimation_n they_o have_v off_o they_o and_o how_o the_o d._n will_v abuse_v we_o that_o draw_v the_o sentence_n of_o the_o chief_n in_o this_o confession_n to_o prove_v their_o convenience_n neither_o do_v i_o dowbt_v but_o that_o our_o archebishops_n and_o bishop_n refuse_v to_o join_v with_o the_o rest_n off_o the_o church_n in_o this_o confession_n do_v it_o because_o they_o can_v not_o digest_v this_o morsel_n especial_a now_o to_o come_v to_o the_o d._n that_o say_v epiphanius_n call_v we_o heretic_n which_o pinchethe_v us._n master_n wickleve_n and_o the_o poor_a waldenses_n bear_v it_o at_o pigghius_n hand_n we_o must_v do_v it_o at_o the_o d._n in_o deed_n so_o much_o more_o pinch_a as_o it_o come_v from_o he_o from_o who_o it_o least_o ought_v but_o what_o remedy_n the_o lord_n will_v look_v to_o it_o in_o time_n howbeit_o because_o this_o arrow_n be_v as_o it_o be_v say_v of_o epiphanius_n a_o man_n subject_n to_o error_n shoot_v out_o off_o pigghius_n bow_v one_o give_v up_o to_o error_n have_v no_o head_n off_o the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o make_v it_o enter_v it_o may_v peradventure_o raise_v the_o skin_n but_o wound_n it_o can_v not_o make_v but_o augustine_n reckenethe_v it_o so_o but_o augustine_n report_v what_o he_o find_v write_v for_o touch_v his_o own_o judgement_n he_o be_v flat_a against_o epiphanius_n which_o make_v a_o bishop_n and_o a_o elder_a differ_v by_o the_o apostle_n institution_n whereas_o augustin_n as_o i_o have_v show_v 169._o teach_v even_o as_o jerome_n that_o this_o difference_n be_v not_o by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n but_o by_o custom_n now_o i_o will_v know_v of_o the_o d._n how_o augustin_n can_v hold_n that_o for_o a_o heresy_n which_o to_o leave_v the_o rest_n can_v not_o be_v convince_v by_o the_o word_n off_o god_n but_o only_o by_o a_o custom_n off_o the_o church_n and_o here_o first_o he_o must_v either_o let_v go_v his_o hold_n of_o jerome_n or_o this_o of_o epiphanius_n for_o if_o it_o be_v true_a that_o epiphanius_n hold_v that_o a_o bishop_n and_o a_o elder_a differ_v by_o the_o apostle_n institution_n than_o it_o be_v false_a which_o jerome_n and_o other_o hold_v that_o they_o be_v all_o one_o at_o the_o first_o and_o that_o the_o difference_n come_v by_o custom_n contrariwise_o if_o jerome_n in_o that_o point_n say_v true_a as_o in_o deed_n he_o do_v then_o epiphanius_n authority_n fall_v second_o if_o the_o d._n will_v prejudice_n this_o cause_n for_o that_o epiphanius_n a_o catholic_a think_v they_o to_o differ_v by_o the_o word_n off_o god_n where_o aerius_n a_o heretic_n think_v they_o all_o one_o or_o else_o in_o that_o augustin_n reckon_v that_o amongst_o his_o heresy_n by_o the_o same_o reason_n he_o must_v prejudice_n this_o truth_n that_o we_o ought_v not_o to_o pray_v or_o make_v any_o oblation_n for_o the_o dead_a for_o both_o haeres_fw-la epiphan_n esteem_v he_o a_o heretic_n for_o his_o judgement_n in_o that_o behalf_n 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