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A09101 A discouerie of I. Nicols minister, misreported a Iesuite, latelye recanted in the Tower of London Wherin besides the declaration of the man, is contayned a ful answere to his recantation, with a confutation of his slaunders, and proofe of the contraries, in the Pope, cardinals, clergie, students, and priuate men of Rome. There is also added a reproofe of an oratiuon and sermon, falsely presented by the sayd Nicols to be made in Rome, and presented to the Pope in his consistorye. Wherto is annexed a late information from Rome touchng [sic] the aute[n]tical copie of Nicols recantation. Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610. 1581 (1581) STC 19402; ESTC S120349 83,096 196

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Church true against heretickes Now then let vs examine bréefly both our marks and those of our aduersaries accordinge to these thrée properties and conditions● Our aduersaries bring two principal markes Cal. li. 4. in ca● 1. num 7. 8.9 whereby they would haue the true Church to be tryed the one is the true vse of Sacramentes the other the true interpretatiō and preaching of God his word which two thinges alb●it they be pri●iledges of the true Church and onely found in the same yet can they be no external markes to shew vnto vs the saied Church Heretical markes re●uted for that they want al those thrée properties of true markes before recited For first they are as vnknowen to vs as the thinge we séeke for it being as hard and obscure and as much in cōtrouersie who doe preach the worde sincerely and administer the Sacramentes aright as it is whi●h is the true Church Secondly these two thinges are not soe proper to the true Church but that euery heretical congregation may and doth in the sight of the world chalēg the same vnto it selfe consequētly it can not be a good marke to distinguishe their cōgregations from the true Church Thirdly the holy Fathers did neuer vse thes two marks against the hereticks of their time but rather did reiect thē when they were brought for marks by hereticks as they are now Li. 3. ca. 19. de bap con Don. ep 48. ad Rog. li. 1. ca. 29. cont Cresc as it may appeare by S. Austē in diuers places against the Donatists Rogatistes and other here●ickes which did labour as he sayeth That their error may be named truth ther wikednes iustice for the sacramēts scripturs which they hold for a shew not to saluation The Catholickes on the other side doe alleag more certaine easie and manifest marks for trial of the Church which markes haue al the properties before recited albeit they vse to bring 15. or 16● s●ueral notes or signes al foūded in the scripturs by vew wherof it is most esie to discerne the true Church from al other yet for breuities sake I wil name only fower thrée whereof are impugned by Iohn Nicolls in his booke The first marke is that the true Church is Catholicke as our Créed teacheth vs 1 Catholicke Au● ep 170. ad Seuer Lirin li. aduer here which word S. Austē expoundeth thus The Catholicke Church is that which is spread ouer the whole world an other father not long a●ter him expon̄deth that to be the Catholike or vniuersal Church which holdeth that faithe ●ero dial con Lucif Pacian ep ● ad Simp. Aug. li de vera religi cap. 7 tract 118. in Ioh. in psal 49. 147. li. 2. cont Pet. cap. 55. ser. 131. de tempore that hath bene h●lde generally by Christians euerye where and in all times since the beginning● And generally al the holy Fathers doe vse and vrge this marke against all heretiques prouing that church onlye to be the true church which being planted by the Apostles and their successors was spread ouer al partes of the world or the chéefe partes therof wherby it tooke the name of Catholique and that all other congregations which afterwarde began in corners or by some one or fewe men contrarie to the more parte of Christianitie can not be the true Church but hereticall Sinagogues Li. de vtili cre cap. 7. Whereas there be many heresies amongest Christians saith S. Austen and all wil seeme to be catholiques calling other men heretiques besides them selues the Catholique Churche is but one more plentifull in multitude if we consider the whole world as al men will graunt And againe Ep. 165. ad gen If an Angel frō heauen should saye leaue the Christianitie of the whole world and hould the partes of Donatus he ought to be accursed for that he goeth about to cutt thee from the whole and to thrust thee into a part And againe Li. 4. de simb ca. 10. Whatsoeuer Congregation of heresie sitteth in a Corner she is a harlot and noe mother Now whether this marke agrée to our churche or theirs let our aduersaries iudge The second marke of the true church is Antiquitie 2 Antiquitie For as God was before the diuel and as the good séede was sowē in the gospel before the cockle Math. 13. soe was Christ his true church before al heresie and al heresies haue sprong vp since our Catholique faithe was planted whiche thing may be shewed in this māner See of this Aug. li. cō Ep. funda cap. 4. Ierō ep ad Pam. Ocean dial con Lucif Hillar li. 6. de trin ante medium For that in euery notable change or alteration of religion these six thinges maye be shewed First the authore of that newe religion secōdly the new doctrine which he taught thirdly the time when he began fowerthly the place or coūtrie wher he began fiftly that some men resisted and impugned this newe doctrine at the beginning sixthly that some other fewe men first began to embrace the same And al these six thinges we can shewe in euery heresie since Christes time as also of the doctrine of our aduersaries But they can neuer shewe the same of the beginning of our doctrine And therfore it appeareth that their doctrine is new and h●retical and ours auncient and Catholique This argument of antiquitie al the Fathers haue vsed against heretiques of their time Lib. de prescrip con here What are you saith Tertuliā to certaine heretiques whēce whē came you where haue you beene hidden soe longe Lib. 2. And Optatus against Parmenian Shew the beginning of your chayre which will challenge the holy Church vnto you The third marke vsed by the ould Fathers to know the true Church 3 Succession is succession of Bishopes frō the Apostles time especially in the sea of Rome Lib. 3. con her cap. 3. For so saieth Ireneus aboue 1300 yeares past reconinge vpp all the Bishopes of Rome from S. Péeter vnto his time And adding that by that succession of Bishopes all heretiques were confounded The same saythe Tertulian Lib. de prescrip Let heretiques laye forthe the beginninge of their churches let them tourne ouer the order of their Bishopes comminge doune by succession● cet Epi. her 27. Epiphanius also vseth this argument of reconing vpp the Bishopes of Rome for proofe of the Catholiqu● faythe and confutation of heresie The like dothe Optatus and S. Augustine against the Donatistes Oopt li. 2. cont Pa●m Au. ●p 165. 42. Willing them to doe the like if they meane to aquite them selues from heresie And the reasone of this is for the Christ leauing his Churche to be gouerned by his Apostles whiche were Bishopes and they by their successors whosoeuer came in afterward not by this lawfull and ordinarie dore of ordination succession Iohn 10 except he bring extraordinarie
lesse nowe For you knowe the saying Cicero Qui semel verc●undiae limites transierit eum gnauiter impudsntem esse oportet 1. Timo. 5. And S. Paule geueth but a hard sentence of those which haue brokē their first faythe and promise And as for that he addeth of his minde to be saued it is of small importance for I thinke that rare trobleth him litle as it maye appeare by the reste of his dealinges which I shall haue after occation to touche Slaunderinge of others WE HAVE had a vew in the former part The secod● parte of the one side of Ihon Nicols his tongue verie smothe as you sée cléere in his owne praise But now if we turn vp the other side also we shall finde it no lesse cankered and venimous in the slander of his neighboure then the former was currant in his owne cōmendation And here before I passe any further very gréefe of minde enforceth me to ●●eake a word or two in detestation of a certaine familier propertie of Ihon Nicols which is wilful malitious detraction● For as it is a great faulte to fauour detraction in any degrée or to vtter easily a true reproche to the infamie of any man soe to deuise lyes and slaunders without any reason or ground at all and to auouche thē of a mans owne knowledge as Ihon Nicols dothe is a poynt of a very deadly resolution made within the den of a desperat harte What cause I haue to vtter these wordes shall appeare in the sequel of this part which for more perspicuites sake I will reduce vnto certaine genaral poyntes acording to the diuersitie of parties which are slandered in the same But first by the way I am to examine a reproche layd down by Ihon● Nicols in the very beginning of his booke against all Catholiques by which you shal haue a gesse of his truthe in reportinge other maters héerafter A tast of Iohn Nicols truthe in reporting He saithe therfore amongest other thinges in his preface that Catholiques hould the soule of Aristotle to be in purgatorie thence to be deliuered by dirges and masses And this is the first and formest of his reportes against vs the whiche howe malitious grosse and impudent a slaunder it is all the world can witnesse which séethe our bookes wherin we hould more then the plaine contrarie For we are soe farre of from saying that infidels or heritiques goe to purgatorie as also we teach that manie Catholiques departe hence straight to hell for their wicked lyues and onlye such goe to purgatorie as dye in the fauoure of God This place is soe interpreted by saynte Aug in psa 37. li. 21. de Ciu. ca. 26. li. de fide ope cap. 10. in psal 80. but haue not dōne such penance for their sinnes as Goddes iustice requireth and therfore they are to be purged by fire after this lyfe and so saued as S. Paule signifieth 1. Cor. 3. by the interpretation of the holye Fathers We teache then as it maye appeare in the Councell of Florence in li●eris vnionis Orig. ho. 12. 13. in Hiero ho. 25. in Nu. ho 6 in Exod. Greg. lib. 4. dia. cap. 39. Beda in ca. 3. Luc. that there are thrée sortes ●f men which dye one verye good which ●oe straight to heauen one verye euill which goe straight to hel one meane be●wixt both which goe to purgatorie and ●here may be reléeued by the pietie of the ●iuing This was the doctrine of the Ca●holicke Church twelue hundred yeares ●ast sett doune by S. Austen a chéefe do●tour of the same Church in dyuers pla●es of his workes most plainlie as in his Enchiridion cap. 110. Whose wordes are these Doctryne about the dead iu S. Austens time Nether is it to be denyed that the ●oules of the dead are releeued by the pi●tie of their liuinge frendes when the sa●rifice of our Mediatour is offred for thē or ells almes are geuen for them in the Chruch but yet those things profit only those which deserued whiles they li●ed that these thinges might profit them after their death For there is a kinde of ●yfe nether so good but that it may need ●hese thinges after death nether so euill ●ut that these thinges may profit it after death But yet there is another kinde of ●ife so good as it needeth not thes things ●nd againe another so euil as it can not be holpē by those things when it is o●● gone Wherefore in this lyfe all me●●e● is to be gotten by the which a man may be releeued or oppressed after this lyfe● But let noe man hope to obtaine that at God his ●ande after he is dead which he neglected while he was aliue Wherefore these thinges which the Church doth vse for the commending of the dead are no● contrarie to the saying of the Apostle a● we shall stande c. for that eche man whiles he was yet liuing in flesh ● Cor. 15. gate him selfe this merit that those thinges might profit him For they do not profit euery man and why doe they not profit al bu● onely for the dīfference of lyfe which ec● man did lead in his body therfore when sacrifices ether of the aulter or of any o●ther almes are offered for all those tha● died in baptisme for the very good they are thankes geuing for the not very euil they are propitiations or intreatinges fo● pardon for the very wicked althoug● they helpe not the dead yet they comfor● in a sort the liuing Hitherto are S. Au●sten his words and he repeteth the ver● same againe in his seconde question t● Dulcitius and the like in his 21● booke o● the citie of God the 24. chapter Wherby it appeareth that his Church taught thē as directlye against our aduersaries as we teach now But of these matters we shal haue occasion to speake more in the thyrd part of this answere Onely here I meant to confute the slaunderous lye of Iohn Nicolls and to geue you some shewe of his shamelesse forhead wherewith I must haue often combate hereafter in this second part which now I beginne according to the diuision promised before of the principall parties slaundered in the same which for methods sake may be reduced to this order The order of this secūd par● First of the Pope secondlye of the Cardinalls thirdly of the prists and religious folks fourthly of the English studētes in Rome ●iftly of particuler persons lastely of the citie of Rome it selfe for that all these haue tasted of the whippe of Iohn Nicols tongue without exception Of the Pope Iohn Nicols for lacke of matter rather then malice could haue bene contēt as it séemeth to passe ouer with silence the Pope which now is but onely for breaking the custome of his companiōs and offending the appetites of his compartners whoe coulde not haue take● well the omittinge of the Pope beinge the principall obiecte of their diuinitye For which