in such matters whereof you are a member What M. Bullinger hath in any other place consented vnto I knowe not but certayne it is that these be his owne woordes And that when he writte them he was of the same opinion that we are at this tyme in this Church of England Chap. 2. the. 7. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 177. Sect. 2. Caluine in lyke manner writing vpon the fourth to the Galatians Caluine doth not disallow this kinde of obseruing dayes his wordes be these VVhen as holynesse is attributed to dayes vvhen as one day is discerned from an other for religion sake vvhen dayes are made a peece of diuine vvorship then dayes are vvickedly obserued c. But vvhen vve haue a difference of dayes laying no burden of necessitie on mens consciences vve make no difference of dayes as though one vvere more holy than an other vve put no religion in them nor vvorshipping of God but onely vve obserue them for order and concorde sake so that the obseruing of dayes vvith vs is free and vvithout all superstition And agayne vpon the. 2. to the Colloss But some vvill say that vve as yet haue some kinde of obseruing dayes I ansvvere that vve obserue them not as though there vvere any religion in them or as though it vvere not then lavvfull to labour but vvee haue a respect of pollycie orders not of dayes And in his Institutions vpō the fourth commaundement Neyther do I so speake of the seuenth daye that I vvould binde the Church onely vnto it for I do not condemne those Churches vvhich haue other solemne dayes to meete in so that they be voyde of superstition vvhich shall be if they be ordeyned onely for the obseruing of discipline and order T. C. Pag. 122. Sect. 4. As for M. Caluine at the practise of him and the Churche where he lined was and i to admitte no one holy day besides the Lordes day so can it not be shewed out of any parte of his workes as I thinke that he approued those holy dayes which are nowe in question He sayeth in deede in his Institution that he will not condemne those Churches which vse them no more do we the Churche of Englande neyther in this nor in other thinges whiche are meete to be reformed For it is one thing to mistike an other thing to condemne and it is one thing to condemne some thing in the Churche and an other to condemne the Churche for it And as for the places cited out of the Epistle to the Galatians and Collossians there is no mention of any holydayes eyther to Sainctes or to any other and it appeareth also that he defendeth not other Churches but the churche of Geneua and answereth not to those which obiecte against the keping of Sainctes dayes or any holydayes as they are called besides the Lordes daye but against those whiche woulde not haue the lordes day kepte still as a day of reste from bodily labour as it may appeare both by his place vpon the Collossians and especially in that which is alleaged out of his Institutions and that he meaneth nothing lesse than such holydayes as you take vpon you to detende it may appeare first in the place of the Collossians where he sayeth that the dayes of reste whiche are vsed of them are vsed for pollicie sake Nowe it is well knowne that as it is pollycie and a way to preserue the estate of thinges and to keepe them in a good continuance and successe that as well the beastes as the menne which labour sixe dayes should rest the seuenth so it tendeth to no pollicie nor wealth of the people or preseruation of good order that there shoulde be so many dayes wherein menne should cease from worke beyng a thing which breedeth idlenesse and consequently pouertie besides other disorders and vices which alwayes go in companie with idlenesse And in the place of his Institutions he declareth himselfe yet more playnely when he sayeth that those odde holydayes then are without superstition when they be ordeyned onely for the obseruing of discipline and order whereby he giueth to vnderstande that he would haue them no further holydayes than for the tyme which is bestowed in the exercise of the discipline and order of the churche and that for the reste they should be altogither as other dayes free to be laboured in And so it appeareth that the holydayes ascribed vnto Sainctes by the seruice booke is a iuste cause why a man cannot safely without exception subscribe vnto the seruice booke Io. Whitgifte What soeuer M Caluines practise was in the Churche of Geneua yet in these places dothe his iudgement euidently appeare neyther doth a man alwayes vse that himselfe which he alloweth in an other for there may be circumstances to make that commendable in one place that is not so in an other He that condemneth the thing as vnlawfull muste also condemne the Churches that vse the same though not wholly yet in that poynt For as muche therefore as M. Caluine did not condemne other Churches for obseruing suche dayes it is a manifest argument that he condemned not the obseruing of those dayes in those Churches In déede it is one thing to mislike an other thing to condemne but he that maketh suche a sturre in the Churche for these matters as you do and that so disorderly can not be sayde onely to mislyke but also to condemne The place of M. Caluine out of the Epistle to the Galat. is not mente onely of the Lordes daye but of other dayes also obserued in other reformed Churches and in that place he maketh a generall answere as it were for them all as it is soone perceyued by suche as will reade that place He also that shall per vse his woordes vpon the seconde chapter to the Collossians shall finde the lyke sense in them In that he sayeth they be vsed for order and pollicie wee do not dissent from him but thinke so in lyke manner howbeit wée vnderstande as he doth Ecclesiasticall order and pollicie for in the wordes that go before the place to the Galatians he sayeth that the obseruing of dayes dothe also perteyne ad Regimen Ecclesiae to the gouernment Caluin in 4. Gal. of the Churche What better order and pollicie can there be than to haue certayne dayes appoynted wherein the people may reste from bodily labour to labour spiritually to heare the worde of God c. whiche M. Caluine called order and pollicie and not the externall rest of the Sabboth daye which is a commaundement of God and no constitution of the Churche neyther hath the Churche any respect to worldly pollicie in appoynting of Holydayes but to Ecclesiasticall pollicie whiche consisteth in hearing the wordes ministring the Sacramentes publike Prayers and other such lyke godly actions The place in his Institutions conuince all your shifting coniectures of mere follie for therein he playnely declareth his allowing in other Churches of o Holydayes than the
vntill I heare some proofe or authoritie to the contrarie Howbeit the waight of the cause lieth not vpon this text this is but one reason among diuerse Chap. 2. the. 6. Diuision T. C. Pag. 127. Sect. vlt. But M. Doctor heareth with his left eare and readeth with his lefte eye as though his right eye were pulled out or his right are cut of For otherwise the other wordes which they haue touching this matter might easily haue bene expounded by the argument and matter whiche they handle Io. Whitgifte How doth it then happen that you haue not salued the matter by setting downe theyr wordes and declaring how I haue mistaken them seyng you haue omitted that men may well thinke that this is not vttered of you in good earnest Now that you haue sayde all in this matter you must giue me leaue to let the Reader vnderstande what you haue lefte vntouched in my booke concerning the same whither it be bycause you consent vnto it or that you cannot answere it I referre to his discretion ¶ The profite of Reading Scriptures in the Churche Chap. 3. the. 1. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 90. Sect. 5. 6. Pag. 91. Sect. 2. 3. Isidorus sayth that reading bringeth great profit to the hearers Isidorus Tertul. in Apologet Tertullian sayth when we come togither to the reading of the holy Scriptures we feede our fayth with those heauenly voyces we rayse vp our affiance we fasten our hope And agayne he calleth the reading of the Scriptures the feeding of our fayth But what neede I speake any more of a matter so manifest you atly ioyne Hardinges opinion of reading scripture with the Papiste in this for in the confutation of the Apologie of the Church of England M. Harding calleth reading of the Scriptures to the people in the Churche a spirituall dumbnesse and a thing Parte 5. and in the. 15. Arti. of the Replie vnprofitable c. That to reade the Scriptures in the Churche is no new thing but most auncient and grounded vpon Gods worde it is manifest by that which is written in the. 4. of Luke where the Euangelist sayeth that Christe on the Sabboth daye going into the Synagogue Luc. 4. according to his accustomed manner rose vp to read and there vvas deliuered vnto him the booke of the Prophete Esay and as soone as he opened the booke he founde the place vvhere it vvas vvritten Spiritus Domini super me c. The spirite of the Lorde vpon me c. Likewise in the thirtenth of the Actes we reade that Paule and other of his company beyng in the Synagogue on the Sabboth day was sent vnto by the rulers of the Sinagogue Post lectionem legis Prophetarum After the reading Ad. 13. of the lavve and the Prophetes To knowe if they would make any exhortation to the people Iustinus Martyr Apolog. 2. pro Christianis sayth that in his time the manner Iustinus Mar yr was on the Sabboth day vvhen the people vvere gathered togither to haue the scriptur s read in the publike congregation and in the time of publike prayer for the space of one vvhole hovver Origen writing vpon Iosua Homil. 15. sayeth that the bookes of the Orig n. olde Testament vvere deliuered by the Apostles to be read in the Churches Cyprian lib. 2. Epist. 5. sayeth The Reader soundeth out the high and Cyprian heauenly vvordes he readeth out the Gospell of Christe c. Chrysostome vpon the Actes Homil. 19. The minister and common minister standeth vp and crieth vvith a lovvde voyce saying Keepe silence Chrysostome Augustine after that the Reader beginneth the prophesie of Esay Augustine speaking to the people sayeth Yee heard vvhen the Gospell vvas read Ye heard erevvhyle vvhen it vvas read if ye gaue eare to the reading dearely beloued vve haue heard in the lesson that hath bene read Admonition And that this is not the feeding that Christe spake of the Scriptures are playne d For reading ministers vievv these places Mala. 2. 7. Esay 56. 10 Zach. 11. 15 at 15. 14. Tim. 3. 3 Reading is not feeding but it is as euill as playing vpon a stage and worse too for players yet learne theyr partes without booke and these a mayny of them can scarcely read within booke These are emptie feeders e Math. 6. 22 darke eyes f Math. 9. 38 〈◊〉 3. ill workemen to hasten in the Lordes haruest g Luc. 14. 17 messangers that can not cal h Mat. 23. 34 Prophers that can not declare the will of the Lord i Math. 5. 13 vnsauerie salt k Mat. 15. 14 blind guides l Isay. 36. 10 sleepie watchmen m Cor. 4. 1. Luc 16. 1. vntrustie dispensers of Gods secretes n 2. Tim. 2. 15 euill deuiders of the worde o 〈◊〉 1. 9. weake to withstande the aduersarie p 2. T 3. 15. 16. not able to confute And to conclude so farre from making the man of God perfect to all good workes that rather the quite contrarie may be confirmed Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 161. Sect. 2. 3. For reading ministers you bid vs viewe these places Mala. 2. vers 7. Esay 56. 10. Zachar. 11. 15. Matth. 15. 14. 1. Timoth. 3. 3. The Prophete Malachie in the seconde chapter and seuenth verse sayeth on this sorte For the Priestes lippes shoulde preserue knovvledge and they shoulde seeke the lavve at his mouthe For he is the messenger of the Lord of hostes In whiche wordes the Prophete doth signifie that the Priestes ought to be learned in the lawe and able to instruct which no man denieth and if there be any crepte into the ministerie whiche a not able so to do it is to be ascribed eyther to the negligence of t Bishop and such as haue to do therein or to the necessitie of the Reading is profitable t me But here is nothing spoken agaynst reading for any thing that I can gather and if any man shoulde come vnto me and demaunde of me any question touching the lawe of God I thinke I shoulde better satisfie him if I did reade the wordes of the lawe vnto him than if I should make a long tedious discourse of myne owne to litle or no purpose It is the worde it selfe that pearceth and mou th the conscience I speake not this agaynst interpreting of the Scriptures or preaching Pag. 162. Sect. 1. 2. for I know they be both necessary but agaynst such as be enimies to the reading of them The places in the. 56. of Esay and in the eleuenth of zacharie tende to the same purpose they all speake agaynst ignorant foolish slouthfull gouernours and pastours there is nothing in them that condemneth or disaloweth readyng of the Scriptures or reading of Prayers No more is there in the fiftenth of Matthew nor 1. Timo 3. reade the places and you shal soone see with how litle iudgement they be quoted agaynst such ministers
our holydayes be some what short in number of theirs so far are we from hauing more than double as many as they had But your spirite is acquaynted with suche vntrue assertions But you saye we mighte haue all these commodities without all those daungers c. and why not as well this waye whiche the whole Churche hathe from tyme to tyme allowed as that way whiche certayne particular persons of their owne heades haue deuysed There is nothing that you haue to saye agaynst these dayes but onely their names and that those memories of Martyrs strayghten our consideration of them vnto those dayes c. and that men be inhibited from bodily labour to serue God al which I haue answered before and the latter in parte you confesse for you woulde haue certayne dayes appoynted for publike prayer the celebration of the sacraments hearing the worde and you seeme not to deny but that the remembrance of Saincts and Martyrs may be kepte onely you mislike that in the rest of the day men should be debarred from their bodily labours exercising their dayly vocations Wel I perceeue that something you woulde finde faulte with if you knewe what They are not so bounde from labour as it appeareth in the lawes of this Churche but that they may doe their necessarie businesse and in déede they are so farre from scrupulositie in thys poynte that all the punishmentes appoynted can not kéepe a number of them from their worldly affayres not in the very time of publike prayers and preaching of the worde and yet I sée no cause why they maye not iustly be wholly debarred excepte some vrgent occasion require sometime the contrarie from their bodily labours in suche dayes for are not the housholders bounde of duetie as well to instruct their families as the Pastor is bounde to instructe them and when is there a more conuenient tyme than in suche dayes If you haue suche a regarde to their worldly affayres is it not more commodious for them to abstayne wholly from worke vpon these Holydayes when they fall than twice or thrice euery wéeke halfe the daye Therefore this reason of yours as it is worldly so is it weake bothe in the respect of God and of the worlde also Your imagination that the kéeping of Easter dothe fetter the meditation of Easter to a A bayne reason fewe dayes c. and so likewyse the reste of the Holydayes I haue answered before it is a moste vayne reason and you mighte as well saye that there oughte to be no certayne tymes appoynted for the receyuing of the holy Communion bycause the meditation of the death and passion of Christe and the application of the same is fettered to these certayne dayes whiche shoulde continually be thoughte of and dayly as long as we lyue The same mighte you saye likewyse of the Sabboth daye But you oughte to knowe that the especiall celebrating of the memorie of Christes resurrection once in the yeare is no more a fettering of our meditation thereof to that daye onely than the receyuing of the Communion once in the moneth is a strayghting of our consideration of the deathe and passion of Christe to that time onely wherein we receyue the holy Sacrament By this reason of yours we muste eyther haue suche memories celebrated at all times or at no time But wyse men can consider howe farre you wander for want of reason Chap. 2. the. 4. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 176. Sect. 3. 4. 5. Ierome writing vpon the. 4. chap. to the Galatians sayth on this Ierome sorte If it be not lavvfull to obserue dayes moneths times and yeres vve also fall into the like fault vvhich obserue the passion of Christ the Sabboth day and the time of Lent the feasts of Easter and of Pentecoste and other times appoynted to Martyrs according to the maner and custome of euery nation to the vvhich he that vvill ansvvere simply vvill say that our obseruing of dayes is not the same vvith the Ievvish obseruing for vve doe not celebrate the feast of vnleuened bread but of the resurrection death of Christe c. And least the confused gathering togither of the people should diminishe the fayth in Christ therfore certayne dayes are appoynted that vve might all meete togither in one place not bicause those dayes be more holy but to the intent that in vvhat day soeuer vve meete vve may reioyce to see one another c. Augustine in lyke manner Lib. 18. de ciuitate Dei cap. 27. sayth That vve honor Augustine the memories of Martyrs as of holy men and suche as haue striuen for the truthe euen to death c. The same Augustine in his boke Contra Adamantum Manachaei Discip. ca. 16. expounding the woordes of the Apostle Ye obserue dayes yeares and tymes wryteth thus But one may thinke that he speaketh of the Sabboth do not vvee say that those tymes ought not to be obserued but the thinges rather that are signified by them for they did obserue them seruilely not vnderstanding vvhat they did signifie and prefigurate this is that that the Apostle reproueth in thē in all those that serue the creature rather than the Creator for vve also solemnly celebrate the Sabboth day and Easter and all other festiuall dayes of Christians but bycause vve vnderstand vvhervnto they do appertayne we obserue not the times but those thinges vvhich are signified by the tymes c. T. C Pag. 122. Sect. 1. Nowe whereas M. Doctor citeth Augustine and Ierome to proue that in the Churches in theyr times there were holy dayes kepte besides the Lordes day he might haue also cyted Ignatius and Tertullian and Cyprian which are of greater aunctencie and would haue made more for the credite of his cause seing he measureth all his truthe almoste through the whole booke by the crooked measure and yarde of tyme. For it is not to be denied but this keeping of Holydayes especially of the Easter and Pentecoste are very auncient and that these holydayes for the remembraunce of Martyrs were vsed of long tyme but these abuses were no auncienter than other were grosser also than this was as I haue before declared and were easie further to be shewed if neede required and therefore (*) An vnlearned shifte I appeale from these examples to the Scriptures and to the examples of the perfectest Churche that euer was which was that in the Apostles tymes Io. Whitgifte I knowe that I might haue alleaged many other authorities for the proofe of The Repliee appealeth itō auncient authoritie this matter but I thought these two sufficient as they be in déede in such a matter as this is and your lightly reiecting of them will winne no credite to your cause among wise and learned menne You may easilie perceyue by the woordes of bothe these Authours that these dayes in their tyme were rightly and without all superstition vsed But you do well to appeale from these examples
Sunday whiche you haue denied to be his opinion in the former two places I haue tolde you what he meaneth by discipline and order or pollicie whereby he giueth to vnderstande nothing lesse than that whiche you woulde conclude beyng but your owne deuise to serue for a poore shifte at a néede And although the matter is not greate whether they labour or no yet the lawe of the Prince and the order of the Churche is to be obserued And so it appeareth that there is no reasonable cause as yet proued why you ought not to subscribe to the seruice Booke Chap. 2. the. 8. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 82. Sect. 1. 2. In the ende you adde patched if not altogither yet the greatest peece out of the Popes Portuis To this I answere briefely it maketh no matter of whome it was inuented in what Booke it is conteyned so that it be good and profitable and consonant to Gods worde Well sayeth Ambrose Omne verum à quocunque dicitur à spiritu Sancto est All truth of vvhome soeuer it is spoken is of the holy ghost T. C. Pag. 123. Lin. 6. Nowe whereas M. Doctor sayeth it maketh no matter wither these thinges be taken out of the Portuis so they be good c. I haue proued first they are not good then if they were yet beyng not necessarie and abused horribly by the Papists other beyng as good and better than they ought not to remayne in the churche Io. Whitgifte Your reasons be not sufficient to proue them not to be good the abuse hath not bene suche but that it beyng remoued the thing may still remayne as profitable and The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 iudgement conuenient the iudgement of the Churche in determining what is best and moste fittest in matters of order pollicie and gouernment not beyng agaynst the worde of God is to be preferred before any priuate mans opinion and imagination Chap. 2. the. 9. Diuision T. C. Pag. 123. Lin. 10. And as for Ambrose saying all truth of whome soeuer it be sayde is of the holy ghoste if I were disposed to moue questions I coulde demaunde of him which careth not of whome he haue Mark 1. the truth so he haue it what our Sauiour Christe ment to refuse the testimonie of Deuils when they gaue a cleare testimonie ▪ that he was the Sonne of God and the holy one And what S. Paule ment to be angrie and to take it so grieuously that the Pithonisse sayde he and his companion Act. 16. were the seruantes of the highe God which preached vnto them the way of saluation Here ▪ was truth and yet reiected and I would knowe whether M. Doctor would saye that these spake by the spirite of God Thus whilest without all iudgement he snatcheth here a sentence and there another out of the Doctoures and that of the worste as if a man should of purpose choose out the brosse and leaue the siluer within a while he will make no great difference not onely betwene the Prophetes and Apostles and prophane wryters as Aristotle and Plato but not betwene them and those which speake not by the conduyte and leading of the holy ghoste but by the violent thrusting of the wicked spirite Io. Whitgifte Christe liked not the truth beyng vttered of the Diuell bycause he spake it of an euill meaning but he liked very well the same testimonie of truth afterwardes vttered by Peter sincerely Math. 16. Mar. 8. Neyther did he mislike the woordes bycause they were abused by the Diuell before But I will leaue Diuels and speake of men of whome I thinke Ambrose mente although the truth is truthe of whome soeuer it is vttered but to Answere for Ambrose he hath sayde nothing in that sentence which may not be iustified M. Caluine vpon these woordes 1. Corinth 12. And no man can saye that Iesus is the Caluine Lorde but by the holy Ghost sayeth thus It may be demaunded whether the wicked haue the Spirite of God seyng they sometime testifie playnely and well of Christe I answere that there is no doubte but that they haue so much as concerneth that effect but it is an other thing to haue the gifte of regeneration than to haue the gifte of bare vnderstanding wherewith Iudas was indued when he preached the Gospell M. Martyr also vpon the same woordes after he hath recited the opinions of other P. Martyr maketh this resolution But when I weygh this matter with my selfe I perceyue that the Apostle here dothe speake not of the Spirite whiche doth regenerate or of that grace which iustifieth but of the giftes which are freely giuen whiche may happen as well to the good as to the euill Therefore I thinke that Paule spake simply that he might declare that by what meanes soeuer we speake well of Christe it is of the holy Ghost of whome Omne verum à spiritu sancto est commeth all truthe as all vntruth proceedeth of the Deuill who is the father of lyes You sée therefore that Ambrose is not of this iudgement alone and that his saying is verie true The Doctoures that I haue vsed in this cause be Ierome and Augustine whiche be not the worst but comparable with the best I haue rehearsed out of them whole sentences and perfite the which you are not able to answere the rest of your opprobrious woordes wherewith you conclude this question of holy dayes I leaue for other to consider of as notes of your spirite And to the intent that the Reader may vnderstande that it was not for naught that you set not downe my Booke togither with your Replie I will here set downe such portions of my booke touching this matter as you haue not answered vnto but closely passed ouer not thinking that any man should haue espied your lacke of abilitie to answere them Chap. 2. the. 10. Diuision Admonition They should first proue that holy dayes ascribed to Sayncts prescript seruices for them c. are agreeable to the written worde of the Almightie Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 153. Sect. 4. Pag. 154. Sect. 1. Holy dayes ascribed to Sainctes wherein not the Sainctes but God is honoured and the people edified by reading and hearing suche stories and places of Scripture as perteyne to the martyrdome calling ▪ and function of such Sainctes or any other thing mentioned of them in Scripture must needes be according to Gods worde For to honor God to worship him to be edified by the stories and examples of Sainctes out of the Scripture cannot be but consonant to the Scripture The prescript secuice for them is all taken out of Gods worde and not one peece thereof but it is moste consonant vnto the same If ther be any that is repugnant set it down that we may vnderstande it I tolde you before that touching the dayes and times and other Ceremonies the churche hath authoritie to determine what is most cōuenient
as it hath done from time to time S. August in his epistle Augustine ad Ian. in y e place before of me recited saithe that the passion of Christe his resurrectiō his ascētion the day of the cōming of the holy ghost which we cōmonly call Whitsontide is celebrated not by any cōmaundement written but by the determination of the church And it is the iudgement of al learned writers that the church hath authoritie in these things so that nothing be done against the word of God But of this I haue spoken partly before and intende to speake more largely thereof in the place folowing where you agayn make mention of it Admonition In this booke days are ascribed vnto saincts kept holie with fastes on their euens prescript seruice appointed for them which beside that they are of many superstitiously kepte and obserued and also contrarie to the commaundement (z) Exo. 20. 9. Exo. 3. 12. Deu. 5. 13. Esa. 1. 10. 13 14. Leuit. 23. 3. 2. Esd. 1. 13. Rom. 14. 6 Ga. 4. 10. 11 of God Six days thou shalt labour and therfore we for the superstition that is put in them dare not subscribe to allow them Answer to the Admo pag 173. sect 2. pa. 174. 175. pa. 176. sect 1. 2. Your collection hāgeth not together for how foloweth this these holidays be superstitiously obserued of some therfore you may not allow thē why should other mēs superstition hinder you from lawfully vsing a lawful thing The saboth day is superstitiously vsed of some Abuse of thin ges doth not condemne the things so is y e church so is y e crede the Lords praier many things else and yet I hope you wil subscribe to thē You heap vp a nūber of places in the margent to proue y t which no mā doubteth of y t is this portion of the comandemēt Six days shalt thou labour c. the meaning of which words is this that seing God hath permitted vnto vs six days to do our own works in we ought the seuenth day wholly to serue him Euery mā hath not bodily labour to do but may serue God aswell in these six dayes as in the seuenth And certainly he doth not by any meanes breake this cōmaundement which absteineth in any of these six days from bodily labour to serue god ▪ For this is the cōmandemēt Remember that thou kepe holy the Sabboth day as for this Six days thou shalt work is no cōmandement but tendeth rather to the constitution of the Saboth thā to the prohibiting of rest in any other day appointed to the seruice of God And it is asmuch as if he should say Sixe days thou mayst worke so do some translate the Hebrewe worde The place alleaged out of the first of Esay is far from the purpose ther is not one word there spokē of any holy days dedicate to saints but only the Lord signifieth that their sacrifices feast days wer not acceptable vnto him bicause they were done in hypocrisie without Esay cōdemneth the maner of sacrificing fayth so that he reproueth modum not factum their maner of sacrificing that is their hypocriticall kynde of worshipping him In the seconde of Esdras 1. in the place by you quoted I see not one worde that may serue for your purpose the wordes you quote be these I haue led you through the sea and haue giuen you a sure way Uaine quotation since the beginning I gaue you Moses for a guide and Aaron for a Priest In the. 14. to the Ro. the apostle speaketh nothing of our holydays but of suche as were obserued among the Iewes and abrogated by the commyng of Chryste And yet in that place the Apostle exhorteth that wee whyche bee strong should not despyse them that are weake nor condemne them though they vse not the christian libertie in dayes and meates That in the fourth to the Galat. Ye obserue dayes moneths and tymes and yeares c. Sainct Augustine ad Ianuar. Episto 119. expoundeth Augustine on this sorte Eos inculpat qui dicunt non proficiscar quia posterus dies est aut quia luna sic fertur vel proficiscar vt prospera cedant quia ita se habet positio syderum non agam hoc mense commertium quia illa stella mihi agit mensem vel agam quia suscepit mensem I know there be other that do otherwise expounde that place and that truly euen as they doe also that in the. 14. to the Rom. of certain Iewish feastes as Sabboths newe Moones the feastes of Tabernacles the yeare of Iubilie and such like abrogated by the gospell and yet superstitiously obserued of some But these places cā by no means be vnderstode of the days obserued by vs called ▪ by the names of saintes dayes for they were ordeined since the writing of this epistle And that you may vnderstād the differēce betwixt the festiual days Difference betwixte the Papists holidays ours obserued of the Papists the days allowed now in this Churche it is to be considered First that their Saints days were appointed for the honoring and worshipping of the Saints by whose names they were called oures be ordeined for the honoring of God for publike prayer and edifying the people by readyng the Scriptures and preachyng 2 The Papistes in their Saincts dayes prayed vnto the Sainctes we only pray vnto God in Christes name 3 They had all things done in a strange tong without any edifying at all we haue the prayers and the Scriptures red in a tongue known which can not be without great commoditie to the hearers 4 To be shorte they in obseruing their dayes thinke they merite therby something at Gods handes We in obseruing our days are taught farre otherwyse The Church euen from the beginning hath obserued such feastes as it may appeare in good writers Pag. 179 Sect. 1. Touching fastyng on the euens of suche feastes or rather absteyning from fleshe you know it is not for religion but for policie and as I thinke the same is protested in that Act where suche kynde of absteyning is established And therfore these be but slender quarels picked to disalowe suche a booke Io. Whitgifte All this haue you ouerskipped for what cause you know best your selfe ¶ What kind of preaching is moste effectual Tract 11. The firste Diuision Admonition The fiftenth and sixtenth Then (n) 1. Pet. 5. feeding the flocke diligently nowe teachyng quarterlye then preachyng (o) 1. Tim. 4. 2. in season and out of season nowe once in a moneth is thought sufficient if twice it is iudged a worke of supererogation ▪ Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 82. Sect. vlt. Pag. 83. Pag. 84. Sect. 1. These be but wordes of pleasure God bee thanked there bee ministers and suche as you mislyke of whiche feede their flocks diligently and preache in tyme and out of tyme according bothe to S. Peters and S. Paules
or Minister shoulde be learned in the mysteries of the Gospell and such a one as is able to set downe in wryting in his studie the sense of the Scripture but one whiche is apt and fitte to teache And the Prophete Malachie sheweth that he must haue the lawe not in his papers Mal. 2. but in his lippes noting thereby that it is necessarie to haue the gifte of vtterance And Esay the Prophete saying that God had giuen him the tongue of the learned doth thereby declare Esay 50. that it is not sufficient that he be well instructed in the mysterie of saluation but that he haue also the gift of vtterance Io. Whitgifte And why doth not he which readeth an other mans Sermon preache as well as hée doth when he readeth his owne What if he pronounce another mans Sermon in the Pulpit without booke doth he not preache bicause it is not his owne I do not speake this to defende any such ignorant Pastor that should néede so to depende vpon other mens labours I doe but put a case It may be that a learned Pastor hauing both memorie and vtterance sometime vpon occasion may reade a Sermon And I nothing doubt but in so doing he preacheth And surely he shall the more redily haue the lawe in his lippes if he haue it first in his Papers And yet if he reade he must vse his lippes Ieremie the Prophete as it appeareth in the. 36. Chapter was commaunded to write that which the Lord had commaunded him to say to the people of Iere. 36. Iuda and of Ierusalem and to cause it to be read vnto them and so it was in the open congregation and in the house of the Lorde in the hearing of all the people And so did Baruch in like maner write that which he had to say to Iechonia and to Bar. 1. all the people and read the same in the open congregation Bar. 1. and surely both these bookes were Sermons Chap. 2. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Page 127. about the middest Afterward M. Doctor asketh whether S. Paule did not preach to the Romaines when he wrote vnto them No forsooth his writing to the Romaines was no more preaching than S. Rom. 1. Paules hande or his pen. which were his instruments to write with were his tongue or his lightes or any other partes which were his instruments to speake with And S. Paule himselfe writing to the Romaines putteth a difference betwene his writing his preaching when although he wrote vnto them yet he excuseth himselfe that he coulde not come to preach vnto them saying that he was readie as much as lay in him to preach vnto them Io. Whitgifte Forsooth and I thinke verely that the same Epistle did them more good and wrought more with them than if the selfe same matter had béene preached vnto them and not written And if you will but peruse the. 15. and. 16. vers of the. 15. Chapter of that Epistle I thinke that you shall heare the Apostle call this written Epistle in effect preaching I do not perceyue that in the first Chapter of this Epistle he maketh any such difference betweene his wryting vnto them and hys preaching If you meane the. 15. verse he therein onely signifieth that so much as lyeth in him he is readie personally to preach the Gospell among them as well as he doth it nowe by his letters and therefore to say that this his wryting is no more preaching than his hande or his pen was his tongue or his lightes is a proper iest but not so apt for the purpose nor so fitte for your person A mans minde is commonly much better expressed by wryting than by worde and that which is written continueth Chap. 2. the. 4. Diuision T. C. Pag. 127. somevvhat past the middest But sayeth he was not the reading of Deuteronomie preaching No more than the reading of Exod. Here be good proofes It is generally denied that readyng is preaching and M. Doctor without any proofe taketh it for graunted that the readyng of 〈◊〉 is preaching al men see how pitifull reasons these be Io. Whitgifte And why then did God by Moses Deut. 31. commaunde the Priestes and Leuites that they should reade The wordes of this lawe before all Israell that they might Deut. 31. heare it and learne and feare the Lorde God and keepe and obserue all the wordes of the lawe Why did Iosiah after he had founde this booke cause it to be read before all the people if readyng had not bene effectuall and of as great force to persuade as preaching that is if readyng in effect had not bene preaching If the eight chapter of Nehemias Nehem. 8. be well considered and the true meaning of the. 4. and. 7. verses according to learned and godly interpreters weyghed and pondered this controuersie will soone be at an ende it will there appeare in expresse wordes that readyng is preaching These pitifull reasons so disquiet your patience that it woulde pitie a man to see how of a diuine you are become a scornefull iester Chap. 2. the. 5. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 162. Sect. 2. Act. 15. it is thus written For Moses of old tyme hath in euery citie them that preach him seyng he is read in the Synagogues euery Sabboth day Where he also seemeth to call reading preaching T. C. Pag. 127. Tovvardes the ende And in the. 162. page he alleageth that in the. 15. of the Actes S. Luke seemeth to meane by readyng preaching But what dealing is this vpon a (*) If your seemings and coniectures were taken away there would be few reasons left seeming and coniecture to set downe so certainely and vndoubtedly that reading is preaching and then there is no one letter nor syllable that vpholdeth any suche comecture For S. Iames sayeth that Moses meaning the lawe read euery Sabboth thorough out euery towne in the Sinagogue was also preached or had those that preached it setting forth the order which was vsed in all the hurches amongst the people of God that alwayes when they mette vpon the Sabboth dayes they had the scriptures first read and then preached of and expounded which is that the Authours of the Admonition do desire and therefore complayne for that after readyng followeth no preaching which any indifferent man may easily vnderstande by that that they saye In the olde tyme the worde was preached nowe it is supposed to be sufficient if it be read Io. Whitgifte Surely the place of it selfe is euident neyther can I reade any interpreter that doth otherwise vnderstand it than of reading the occasion of vttering these wordes importeth the same For S. Iames doth vse this for a reason why the ceremonies of the lawe could not by and by be abolished among the Iewes bycause Moses was of so great authoritie with them beyng read euery Sabboth day in their Churches Therefore hauing the wordes of the Scripture with me I must rest in my opinion
writing than you vse throughout your whole booke and truly if you had not these two letters T. C. for your name yet coulde I haue easily coniectured by the haughtinesse of the stile and contemptuous speaches who had bene the authour of the booke so well am I acquainted with your modestie and suche experience haue I of your myldnesse But it is well for nowe such as before haue thought that you had bene sine felle without gall and that butter would not melt in your mouth may perceyue that all is not vntrue that hath ben reported of you But what woulde they farther thinke if they shoulde compare you béeing that T. C. that I take you to be your othe which you once tooke when you were admitted fellowe into T. C. Item me buic Collegio fidelem beneuolum The othe which the fellowes of Tri. Col. in Cambridge do take at their 〈◊〉 futurum ei omnibus socijs ac discipulis atque etiam magistro eiusdem non solum dum in eo vixero sed etiam postea pro virili cum opus sit beneuolentiam opem praestiturū c. with this your good will vttered throughout your whole booke verily you might haue answered as well as you haue doon and had better regard both to your othe and to your brethren But to let that passe I doubte whether you meane good faith or no when you would make vs beléeue that you take vs for brethren for surely that doth not appeare either by the firste or Admonition or by this your booke if a man consider the fiercenesse and firie heat almost in euery lyne of them vttered against vs. In the second Admonition fol. 35. speaking of the Bishops which be nowe their confederates as you cal them these words in most spiteful maner be vttered And take them for better 2. Admo ▪ fo 35 who shall they are no other but a remnant of Antichristes broode and God amend and forgiue them for else they bid battell to Christ and his Church and it must bid defiance to them till they yeeld And I protest before the eternall God I take them so and thereafter will vse my selfe in my vocation and many moe too no doubt which be carefull of God his glory and the Churches liberty will vse them selues against them as the professed enimies of the Church of Christ if they proceede in this course and thus persecute as they do And therefore these be but wordes of dalyance when you saye that you cannot tell howe it commeth to passe that the name of a brother s aketh that courage and abateth that carefulnesse whiche should be bestowed in the defence of the truth In déede it ought to haue abated your outrageous and disdayneful speaches if olde rancour and desire of reuengement had not gotten in you the vpper hande For whether you deale with me lyke a brother or like an vtter enimie lette the indifferent Reader iudge What truth you haue on your side and how it is oppugned and slandered by such as you meane shall I trust appeare when your Replie is diligently compared with my Answere If you had ment the truth in good earnest you woulde haue delt more paynly in replying than you haue doone you would haue set downe my booke as I haue done the Admonition that the Reader mighte haue compared bothe together and not haue mangled it depraued it falsified it and vntruly collected of it as you haue done and almost nothing else as God willing shall appeare God graunt that it be not layde to your charge that you haue hindred Truth slaundered it and giuen the common aduersaries occasion to speake euill of it T. C. And as vnto other partes of the Gospell so soone as the Lorde openeth a doore for them to enter in there is for the most parte great resistance So in this part concerning the gouernment and discipline of the Church which is the order which God hath left as well to make the doctrine most effectual and to giue as it were a sharper edge vnto the preaching of the word as also to be a wall to keepe it and make it continue amongst vs I see there bee sundrie lettes which doe as it were with weapons stande vp to stoppe the passage and to hinder that it shoulde not be settled amongste vs. Io. Whitgifte It is true that there is greate resistance so soone as the Lorde openeth any dore to his Gospell and that by sundrie meanes and diuers kindes of men as the stories of the Churche from tyme to tyme declare and dayly experience teacheth it is also true that many vnder this pretence of right gonernment and restoring of discipline haue and doe disturbe the Churches wherin the Gospel is sincerely preached and the Sacraments rightly ministred for further proufe wherof and auoyding of tediousnesse I referre you to maister Bullinger Lib. 6. cap. 10. aduersus Anabaptist To Maister Caluine aduersus Anabaptist To Maister Gualter in his Epistle dedicatorie before his The pretence of restoring the right gouernment but a cloake for farther mischiefe commentarie vpon the first to the Corinthes Therfore this pretence of restoring the right gouernment of the Churche with so great disquietnesse of the same is but a couer to hyde the further purposes of Satan the enimie of the peace and quietnesse of the Churche T. C. With the whiche albeeit I wrestle hand to hande in this booke yet forasmuche as we haue all drunke so deepe of the cup of vntruth that we do not only stumble at blockes which other men laye in our way but oftentimes we gather lettes vnto our selues in framing a preiudice against the truth I thought good to note shortly what those stumbling blockes are and although I cannot remoue them yet to giue warning of them and to lende my hande to the weaker and simpler sorte to helpe to ouerstride them Io. Whitgifte What these stumbling blockes are and howe you will helpe the weaker and simpler sorte to ouerstride them we shall sée in the discourse that foloweth The Epist. of T. C. Sect. 2. The offences which are taken herein be either in respecte of the cause or in respect of those whiche seeke to defende and promote the cause The cause is charged fyrste with newnesse and strangenesse then as author of confusion and of disorder and laste of all as enimie to Princes magistrates and common wealthes For the fyrst besydes that it is no sufficient chalenge to say it is new and strange there is no cause why it should be counted newe which is confessed of those whiche myslyke it to haue bin for the most part vsed in the Apostles tymes nor why it should be esteemed strange which is vsed now farre and neere of this that syde the sea and of ne straungers but of those which are of the houshold of fayth And it shal more largely appeare in this boke that this is no innouation but a renouation and the doctrine
the truth therfore we must alwayes be altering and changing our religion The Epistle of T. C. Sect. vlt. The summe of al is that the cause may be looked vpon with a single eye without al mist of partialitie may be heard with an indifferent eare without the waxe of preiudice the argumēts of both sides may be weighed not with the changeable weights of custome of time of men which notwithstanding Popish excepted shal be shewed to be more for the cause than against it but with the iust balances of the incorruptible vnchangeable word of God And I humbly beseech the Lord to increase in vs the spirit of knowledge iudgement that we may discern things which differ one from an other and that we may be lyncere and without offence vntill the day of Christe Io. Whitgifte This doe I in lyke maner desyre with all my heart and to the latter ende of it I say Amen The middest if you proue not then shall you be blamed for making such a bragge T. C. The Author to the Reader I Am humbly to craue at thy hand gentle reader that thou wouldest vouchesafe diligently and carefully to compare Maister Doctours answere and my replie bothe that thou mayst the better vnderstād the truth of the cause that the vntempered speches of him especially that whippeth 〈◊〉 desireth hat hich ▪ as much as lieth in him he hath sought to inder other so sharply for them which I haue in a maner altogether passed by and his lose conclusions which I haue to auoyd tediousnesse not so fully pursued may y e better appere which thing as I craue to be done through the whole booke so chiefly I desire it may be done in the beginning where the reader shall not be able so well to vnderstande what is sayd of me vnlesse he haue M. D. booke before him * Vaine nd vn s fficient ex u se why he ha h not et down the answer to the Ad onition The cause of whiche diuersitie rose of that that I fyrste purposed to set down his answer before my replie as he did the Admonition before his answer But afterward considering that his booke being alreadie in the handes of men it woulde be double charges to buye it again And especially weighing with my selfe that through the slownesse of the printe for want of help the repli by that meanes should come forth later than was conuement for although he might commodiously bring in the Admonition being short yet the same coulde not be doone in his booke swelling in that sorte which it dothe I saye these things considered I chaunged my mynde and haue therfore set downe the causes whiche moued me so to doe bicause I knowe that thos if any be whiche haue determined to continue their foreiudged opinions againste the cause whatsoeuer be alleaged wil herevpon take occasion to surmize that I haue lefte out his answere to the ende that it might the lesse appeare wherin I haue passed ouer any weyghte of his reasons wheras had it not bin for these causes which I haue before alleadged my earneste desire was to haue set his answere before my replie wherof I call the Lord to witnesse whom I knowe to be a sharpe iudge against those which shall abuse his holie name to any vntruth Io. Whitgifte You haue well prouided for the comparing of Master Doctors answer with your replie howsoeuer you protest y e your earnest desire was to set it down before your The true ca ses why T. C. sette not downe the answere Replie yet the sequele wil declare the contrarie for it shal euidently appere that therfore you haue omitted it bicause you are loth they should be compared together least your friuolous Replies your childish collections your wilful deprauing your fraudulent dismembring of my booke should manifestly appeare Full wel knew you that your fautours in whose hands especially your bookes are kept would not take pains to compare them both together except they had bin ioyned together that they might haue done it with one labor And suerly herein you haue delt verie vnhonestly with me done me great iniurie and not performed that towards me that you before required of me in one of your pamphlets and doe nowe againe require of me in the end of this booke But wise and indifferent men will soone espie the causes if it will please them to pervse this booke with some diligence My vntempered speaches if they be compared with your floutes disdaynful phrases or with either of y e Admonitiōs wil séeme I am sure verie modest And no doubt you would haue set down some examples of some of them if they had bin such as you would make the reader beleeue But in your booke he may sée the humblenesse of your spirite and iudge whether that one qualitie be founde in you or no which Zuinglius in Zuinglius his booke called Elenchus contra Anabap. and in his bookes de baptismo Ecclesiast and Bullinger in his booke Aduersus Anabap. do say is cōmon to the Anabaptists that is to reuile Bullinger the ministers of the worde and much more bitterly to inuey against them if they withstand their errors than against the Papists Truly if you should haue written against the doggeddest Papist or the pestilentest heretike that euer was you could not haue inuented howe in more spitefull maner to deface him but how truly it resteth in y e tryall Touching lose conclusions it is vnlike that you haue omitted any seing y t you haue famed those to be which are not Wherein your false dealing plainly appereth shal b made manifest Your excuses for omitting my booke in your replie be mere excuses for why should you run in suspition of corrupt dealing for sauing x d. in an other mans purse as for the volume of your booke it would not haue ben much bigger if you had spared your superfluous digressions cut off your vain words kept in your scornful and opprobrious speaches What I think of your protestatiō I haue told you before To his louyng Nurse the Christian Churche of England Io. VVhitgifte a membre and minister of the same vvisheth peace in Christe and continuance of his glorious Gospel euen to the worldes ende THere bee dyuers things and especially fiue that when I fyrste tooke this laboure in hande had almoste vtterly dissuaded mee from the same Fyrste bycause I doe with all my hearte hate contention and stryfe and especially in matters of Religion among suche as professe the selfe same Gospell Secondly for that I feared greatly least some sclaunder myghte tedounde to the Gospell by this open contention seing that God is not the author of contention or confusion but of peace 1. Cor. 14. Thirdly I doubted whether this kinde of dealing by writing might minister matter to the common aduersaries of the Gospel to reioyce and glorie and to flatter themselues the more in their damnable errours Fourthly I
peruerting of the words and meaning of the Epistle vnlearned tonges we had rather a great deale they were vnlearned than they should be as theirs * which haue taught their tonges to speake falsly And how vnlearned soeuer Ierem. 9. 5 you would make the world beleeue that we and our tongs be I hope through the goodnesse of God they shall be learned ynough to defend the truth against all the learning that you shall be able to assault it with If those be (b) Slaunderous and cursed speakers be not the generation of Christe the generation of Christe whiche you cal viperouse kinde of men Esay 53. 8. knowe you that you haue not opened your mouth against earth but you haue set it agaynst heauen and for all indifferent iudgement it will easily perceiue that you are as farre from the spirit of * John Baptist as you are neere to his manner of speach which you vse whither it be affection Math. 3. 7 or blind zeale that we follow and are driuen by it will then appeare when the reasons of both sides being laid out shal be wayed indifferently Wheras you say that your dutie towards God the Queene hir Maiesty moued you to take this labour in hād it will fall out vpon the discourse that as you haue not serued the Lord God in this enterprise and work of yours so haue you done nothing lesse than any godly dutie which you owe vnto hir Maiestie so that the best that can be thought of you herein is that where in an euill matter you could yeld no dutie yet now you haue done that which you thoughte a duetie which iudgement we will so long keepe of you vntil you shall by oppugmng of a knowne truth declare the contrary which we hope will not be What truth it is that we impugne and you defēd let it in the name of God appeare by our seueral proofs and answers of both sides And as for the slanderous surmises wherby in your third and last consideration you set the Papists of the one side of vs and the Anabaptists of the other and vs in the middest reaching out our hands as it were to them both first it ought not to be straunge vnto vs myserable sinners seeing that the Lord hunselfe without all sinne was placed in the middest of two greeuous malefactours as though he had bin worse than they both Then for answer of these slanderous speaches I will referre the Reader to those places where these generall charges are giuen out in more particular manner Io. Whitgifte It is well that you are content to rest in his iudgement vntill the time come for so indéed ought we to do as the Apostle admonisheth 1. Cor. 4. Nolite ante tempus quicquam 1. Cor. 4 ▪ iudicare Iudge not before the time vntill the Lord come c. Your coniecture is a méere coniecture in déede for vndoubtedly these so many harde words of mine bitter reproches c. would not haue bin kept so secret of you if you coulde haue had them foorthcomming But be it so as you will néedes haue it yet haue I not in like bitternesse of speach spoken against them as Zuinglius Bucer Caluine Bullinger Gualter c. haue done against the like troublers of the Church who had notwithstanding all these pretences and clokes to shadow their contentions with which either you or the Authours of the Admonition do alleadge for they pretende the Glory of God the Puritie of Religion the safetie of the Church as Master Bucer witnesseth in his Coment ▪ vpon the Ephe. Cap. 4. Master Caluine in his booke aduersus Anabap. Gastius in his booke de exordio erroribus catabaptist Zuinglius in his booke called Ecclesi And Bullinger in his booke aduersus Anabaptist as I haue by setting downe their very wordes more at large declared in the second edition of my answere to the Admonition But graunt that for the loue of peace and hatred of contention and earnest zeale that I beare to this Church of Christ in England and dutifull affection to my souerayne I haue sometimes passed the bounds of modestie wherein I wil neyther accuse nor excuse my selfe yet are my speaches in bitternesse farre inferiour to those opprobries slanders and disdainefull words vttered either in the first or second Admonition or in your Replie And where haue you learned to espie a mote in another mans eye and not to sée the beame that is in your owne or what poynte of Rhetoricke do you call it to charge me in the beginning of your booke with that that you yourselfe most outrageously fall into sundry times almost in euery leafe or how vnwise are you to giue vnto me that councell which you yourselfe in no respect obserue But of both our modesties and manners of writing we must be contente that other men iudge which shall reade our bookes and therefore it is but in vaine either for you to accuse or me to excuse God graunt vs both the spirit of modestie and humilitie In my fourth reason by backbiters I meane all such as are ready to heare euill and speake euill of all men that be not of their iudgement and such as cease not continually to depraue those especially that be of any countenance and calling the which vice doth aboundantly reigne I will not say in all but in a great sort of your sect and those learned also I could name some which go from place to place for that purpose especially although vnder other pretences and in this qualitie they agrée with the Anabaptists as may appeare more plainly in the notes of the Anabaptists qualities conteined in the seconde edition of my answere to the Admonition to the which for breuities sake I referre you By vnlerned tongues I meane such of the common people as you haue deluded who in déede are caried away by a blinde and preposterous zeale and therefore the rather to be excused I know there be some both of the learned vnlearned sorte among you that haue milder spirites than the rest such I do not blante in this point I would other would follow their modestie As for the good that you and other woulde so gladly speake of me it euill appeareth in this booke where you do but deuise how possibly you may deface me in déede bothe you and some others if you considered your duties towardes mée and my dealings towardes you whilest you kepte your selues within your bondes haue small occasion to whisper of me in corners as you do or otherwise to deale so vnchristianly with me The euill that you know by me vtter it and spare not I desire no silence so that it be done where I may come to the answering of it And surely he that shall reade this your booke cannot but conceiue that if you knew any euill thing by me it would not be concealed But to all reproches I will answere as they come in order and proclayme defyance againste you for
vp to the Councell in the time of king Edwarde the sixte the true Copie wherof I haue Surely he was no Adamite but a man of singular iudgement and learning Touching my reading in the Schooles whiche you héere opprobriously obiect vnto me thoughe I knowe that the Uniuersitie had a farre better opinion of me than I deserued and that there were a great many whiche were in all respectes better able to doe that office than my selfe yet I truste I did my duetie and satisfied them What logike I vttered in my Lectures and howe I read I referre to their iudgementes who surely if they suffred me so long to continue in that place augmented the stipende for my sake and were so desirous to haue me still to remayne in that function reading so vnlearnedly as you woulde make the worlde beléeue I dyd may be thoughte either to be without iudgement them selues or else to haue bin very carelesse for that exercise Well I will not speake that whiche I mighte iustly speake by this prouocation of yours For I counte this either an heathenishe or a chyldishe kinde of confuting to fall from the matter to the deprauing of the person God graunt that we bothe may so knowe our giftes and our selues that we may acknowledge them to be his and employ them to the edifying of the Churche not to the disgracing one of another Scientia inflat c. I did knowe that this my booke should come into the handes bothe of the learned and vnlearned and therfore as néere as I could I did frame my selfe to serue them bothe And bicause all or the moste parte of your proofes consiste of these or the lyke kinde of arguments I thought it conuenient to set downe a note of them before my booke and that for the learned sake wherof I do not repent me neither do I thinke that it commeth out of place But to obserue what arte heere is shewed you would gladly knowe you say what place of the fallacions either an argument ab authoritate negatiue is or of negatiues by comparison c. I maruell that you will so openly dally I intitle this treatise A briefe examination of the reasons vsed in the booke c. And afterwards I call them argumentes I doo not call them fallacions whiche notwithstanding I mighte haue done in some respecte but seeing you cauill about words tell me where I call either an argument ab authoritate negatiuè or of negatiues by comparison fallacions Doo you not blushe to trifle on this sorte and to séeke occasion of cauilling in so small matters I am sure that you are not so ignorante in Logike but that you knowe there be many false argumentes whiche be not amongest the fallacions What saye you to an argument à specie negatiuè and suche lyke What say you to an argument ex solis negatiuis or ex solis particularibus or to that that otherwise dothe offende in any moode or figure or to be shorte to suche as be in any place of Logike negatiue or affirmatiue when the nature of the place will not beare it For you knowe that in some places only negatiue reasons hold in some other places only affirmatiue Concerning an argument ab authoritate negatiuè that it is no good argumente Arg. ab autho ritate negatiuè all Logicians confesse neither is he to be thoughte to haue any skill in Logike at all that will denie it Onely the authoritie of the Scripture is to be excepted in matters pertayning to saluation or damnation bicause therein it is perfecte and absolute as I haue declared in my answere to the Admonition Touching the argument of négatiues by comparison which you thinke to Arg. of negatiues by comparison be so straunge it is moste vsuall in the Scriptures and moste consonant to reason when God sayde vnto Samuell 1. Reg. 8. They haue not refused thee but me He ment not absolutely that they had not reiected Samuell but by that one negatiue by comparison he vnderstandeth two affirmatiues that is that they had reiected Samuell and not him alone but chiefly they had reiected God But of this kinde of argument looke the. 2. booke and 12. chapter of worthy Cranmer Archbishop of Canterburie which he writeth of the Sacrament where he answering the obiections of the Papistes out of Chrysostome touching transubstantiation handleth this argument at large and setteth it out by many examples to the whiche place I referre the Reader and you too that you may sée your lacke of discretion in finding faulte where none is Those be but slender answeres to these arguments except you quit your selfe better in the rest of your Replie it had bin mnche safer for your cause to haue still kept silence Io. Whitgifte A briefe examination c. The thirde kynde of argument is called petitio principij whych is Arg. à petitione principij when a man frameth vnto him selfe principles of his owne deuise grounded neither vpon authoritie neither yet vpon substantial reason and then vpon the same will conclude his purpose whiche is vitiosissimum genus argumentandi a very erroneous kynde of reasoning as these men do in vsing these two false principles the one when they say that to be inuented by an Antichristian Pope which was not so inuented the other when they say that nothing may be vsed in the Church of Christ which was inuented by the Pope or vsed in the Popes Churche which can not be true as in sundrie places of the booke I haue declared The selfe same reasons moued the Aërians to forsake the order of the Church and to commaunde their disciples to do the contrarie of that that the Churche did We borrowe good lawes of the Gentiles and we vse the Churches Belles Pulpits and many other things vsed of Papistes c. The fourth kinde of reason is of negatiues by comparison as thys Arg. à negatiuis per come parationem Priestes and Ministers are to be knowne by their doctrine not by their apparell Ergo they ought not to haue distinct apparell from other men This argument followeth not for negatiues by comparison are not simply to be vnderstanded but by the way of comparison And therfore of the former sentence thus we may conclude that the apparell is not to be esteemed as a note of difference in comparison to learning and doctrine and yet a note As when Paule sayth that Christ sent him not to baptise but to preache the Gospel 1. Cor. 1. And God by his Prophet I will haue mercy and not sacrifice Ose. 6. and Mat. 9. The fifte is ab eo quod est non causam vt causam ponere vvhen that is taken for Arg. à non causa pre causa the cause of any thing vvhich is not the cause As when they condemne the booke of Common prayer a prescript forme of seruice bicause as they say it maynteineth an vnlearned or as they terme it a reading ministerie when as
Archbishop dyd with their factiousnesse trouble the Church Whiche words I added to declare how vntruely the Papistes doe abuse that place of Cyprian to proue the Popes authoritie ouer all the Churches when he onely speaketh of the authoritie of an Archbishop or Bishop in his owne prouince or dioces True it is that Cyprian doth not speake of the authoritie of the Byshop of Rome ouer all Churches but of the authoritie that Cornelius then Bishop of Rome or Cyprian himselfe had in his owne prouince neither wil any denie this but Papists Now to peruert this my plaine meaning and to father on me whether I will or no this argumente he speaketh not of the Bishop of Rome and therfore of an Archbishop argueth a mynd disposed to con and a stomacke desirous rather to deface the person than to giue care to the matter T. C. pag. 1. Sect. 9. And in the. 71. pag. * Other vntruthe ▪ There must be superiours Ergo one minister must be superiour vnto an other There must be degrees therefore there must be one Archbishop ouer a prouince Io. Whitgifte There are no such reasons those that be in that place alleaged are onely out of Hierome and Chrisostome and of greater force than wil be truely answered T. C. pag. 1. Sect. 10. And in the. 73. there was one ouer euery congregation therefore there was one ouer all the ministers Another vntruth in the prouince These and a number like vnto these M. Doctor hath scattered throughout his booke which as Nero sayd of his maister Senecas workes cleaue together like sand and thus let it be seene whose argumentes are most iustly concluded those of the Admonition or these of M. Doctors Io. Whitgifte It is a shame to lye of the deuill Where finde you in all that page any such argument or similitude of it but surely you haue done me a great pleasure who searching my booke so diligently for arguments to quit the Admonition haue not founde one but most vainely and vntruely fained those to be which be not Truly I do not think my selfe in euery circumstance to be so circumspecte but that I may minister sometime matter to a quarreller howebeit as yet you haue not founde any thing for your purpose And I shall most hartily desire the reader to iudge of the rest of your doyngs euen according to these beginnings An Exhortation to such as be in authoritie and haue the gouernment of the Church committed vnto them whether they be Ciuill or Ecclesiasticall Magistrates Io. Whitgifte COnsidering the strangenesse of the time the varietie of mens mindes and the maruellous inclinations in the common sort of persons especially where the Gospel is most preached to imbrace newe inuented doctrines and opiniōs though they tende to the disturbing of the quiet state of the Church the discrediting and defacing of such as be in authoritie and the mainteining of licenciousnesse and lewde libertie I thought it good to set before your eyes the practises of the Anabaptistes their conditions and qualities the kinde and manner of their beginnings and proceedings before the broching of their manifolde and horrible heresies to the intent that you vnderstanding the same may the rather in time take heede to such as proceede in like maner least they being suffred too long brust out to worke the same effect I accuse none onely I suspect the authors of this Admonition and their fautours what cause I haue so to do I refer to your selues to iudge after that I haue set forth vnto you the Anabaptisticall practises euen as I haue learned in the writings of suche famous and learned men as had themselues experience of them when they first began in Germanie and did both personally reason with them and afterwardes very learnedly write against them neither will I in this point write one word which I haue not my author to shew for An answere to the Exhortation to the ciuill Magistrates T. C. pag. 2. Sect. 1. IT is more than I thought could haue happened vnto you once to admitte into your minde this opinion of Anabaptisme of your brethren which haue alwayes had it in as great detestation as your selfe preached against it as much as your selfe hated of the folowers and fauourers of it as much as your selfe And it is yet more strange that you haue not doubted to giue out such slaunderous reportes of them but dare to present such accusations to the holy and sacred seate of iustice and therby so much as in you lyeth to corrupt it to call for the sword vpon the innocent which Bigge wordes is giuen for their maintenance and safetie that as it is a boldnesse vntollerable so coulde I hardly haue thought that it could haue fallen into any that had caried but the countenance and name of a professor of the Gospell much lesse of a Doctor of diuinitie Before you will ioyne with vs in this cause you will place vs whether we will or no in the campe of the Anabaptistes to the ende you might therby both withdraw al frō aiding vs which are godly minded as for that you fearing as it seemeth the insufficiencie of your pen might haue the sworde to supply your want other wayes And if we be founde in their campe or be such disturbers of the quiet estate of the Church efacers of such as be in authoritie mainteyners of licenciousnes lewde libertie as you do seeme to charge vs with we refuse not to go vnder those punishments that some of that wicked sect receiued for iust recompence of their demerites You say you will not accuse any (a) A charitable iudgement and yet before he reproued the l ke I know it is for want of no good will that you do not accuse them of whose condemnation extreme punishment we might be sure if your hand were as strong as your harte But you suspect the authors of the Admonition and their fautors * Charitie is not suspitious Let vs therefore see whether there be iuste 1. Cor. 13. 5. matter to beare out and to vphold this suspition You will beare men in hand that if we be not alreadie full Anabaptists yet we are in the way thither the fotesteps wherby you trace vs must be considered Io. Whitgifte There is no cause why you should so maruaile at the matter all things well considered neither do I thinke that the Anabaptistes do so greatly detest and hate them as you woulde make vs beleue I do not accuse them of the doctrine of Anabaptisme as you your selfe in the ende of this section do acknowledge but I declare that I greatly suspect them bicause they come so neare vnto the qualities and practises of the Anabaptistes and vse the same beginnings whether this my suspition be true or no I referre it to the iudgement of others If the reportes be slaunderous let them take their lawfull remedie against me but if they be most manifest then it is conuenient that the Magistrates haue
the beginning wearie of turning vp this (6) Note his mo est manerly speaches dung and refuting so baine and friuolous sclanders with out all shewe and face of truthe and therfore I will be briefe in the rest Io. Whitgifte I speake not here of the doctrine of the Anabaptists which is the certaine note wherby they may be knowne but of their other qualities and manner of talke and Preaching The wordes be M. Bullingers they be not mine The argumentes framed be yours and neither his nor mine Your disciples magnifie you bicause your vsuall talke both publike and priuate is They seke not the reformatiō but the diffamation of ministers against the Ministers of the Church against their calling against their preaching against their life c. which you doe not to reforme them for you doe it in their absence and to the people but to deface them and to discredite them not to promote the Gospell which they preache as diligently and syncerely as you doe but to bring them into hatred with the people whereby you might the rather preuaile in your enterprises not to reforme their manners for they maye compare wyth you in all kynde of honestie and dutie but to erpresse your malice and wrathe for that whiche Zuinglius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Anabap. in Elench contra Anabap. speaketh of them It is melancholie and wrathe not true zeale of whiche they glorie maye be truly verified of you and thereof let thys your booke be iudge Nowe if I say that in this poynte you agrée with the Anabaptistes I doe not therefore straighteway conclude that you are Anabaptistes but thys I conclude that you are not for suche inuemues to bée estéemed as more pure in deede than your brethren nor they thorough suche slaunde os speaches of yours to bée discredited bycause herein you speake or practise nothyng agaynste the true Ministers of the woorde of God but that whyche the Anabaptistes haue doone in the selfe same forme and manner before you And that these be qualities woorthie to bée obserued in the Anabaptistes and suche as procéede in lyke manner it may appeare not onely by this obseruation of M. Buliinger but of other learned and Godlie menne also that haue written agaynste them and giuen notes of their qualities Zuinglius in his Booke before named sayth That they speake euyll bothe Ibidem Why the 〈◊〉 speake euill of magistrate and 〈◊〉 Idem in les of the Ciuill Magistrate and of the ministers of the Churche that if at anye tyme eyther of them accordyng to theyr office reproue them then they streyghtwaye saye that therefore they bee enimyes vnto them bycause they tell them of theyr faultes And in his Ecclesiast he sayeth thus of them They so slaunder reuyle and backebyte the Ministers of the woorde and of the Churche that they oughte to be suspected and hated of all Godlye menne euen for theyr slaunderous and curssed speakyng But theyr ende and purpose is by thys meanes to wynne credite vnto them selues and to discredite suche as sette them selues agaynste them and detecte theyr erroures The lyke saying he hathe in hys booke De. Baptismo To the same effecte also speaketh Gastius of them in his Booke De exordio erroribus Catabap Gastiu where among other sentences he hath thys Theyr talke vttereth nothyng else but reprehension of the Ministers of the worde and libertie in externall things Now iudge I praye you whether this hath ben a qualitie woorthie to bée obserued in the Anabaptistes or no I doe not speake agaynste suche as modestly and accordyng to the rule of the Apostle 1. Tunoth 5. doo reproue any but agaynste those that haue nothing else in theyr mouthes but inuectiues agaynste the Ministers of the woorde obseruyng neyther place tyme nor anye other circumstances whome I still say in this poynt to be fitly compared to the Anabaptists Nowe whether it bée my Logike or yours that you gyue a taste of in thys placelette the learned Reader iudge to whome also I committe the tryall of thys spyrite of yours whyche bursteth out in suche vnséemely manner vpon the consyderation of your owne deuysed argumentes to féede your contempte and disdayne with In déede if you make argumentes where I make none and if you frame them as it pleaseth you no meruayle it is though you make a long booke and cause your Reader to beleeue that my Logicke is as simple as you woulde haue it But deale with mée vprightly and honestly and then set downe my vnskilfulnesse and spare not as I trust you woulde doo to the vttermost in euery poynt if you could séeing that you doe it where there is no occasion at all offered vnto you by mée but imagined of youre selfe Well let these quarelles goe more méete to be among boyes than among men Gratia Dei sum quod sum neyther haue I any thing but that whiche I haue receyued of him from whom commeth all good things Bothe of the election of ministers and of excommunication what I thynke I will declare God willing in their proper places The woordes here by me alledged as I haue saide are Master Bullingers and they be truly spoken and to good purpose as there it shall appeare In the meane while I referre you for that of the Magistrate in electing of ministers to the 87. and 88. leaues of that his Booke Aduersus Anabap. and for that of excommunication to the. 233. and. 234. leafe of the same Booke You denye that you saye there is no lawfull or no ordinarye callyng of Mynisters in Englande whych is a strange hearyng to mée for wherevnto then tendeth all that whych is wrytten in your Booke touching the electing and calling of Ministers or F st Admonition contrarie to T. C. that which is written in the fyrst Admonition Folio 9 ▪ where they say in playne termes that wee haue neyther a ryghte Ministerie of God nor a righte gouernement of hys Churche And Folio 34. 35. 36. c Folio 157. where they saye that thys prescripte forme of Seruice vsed in this Churche of Englande mayntayneth an vnlawfull ▪ Ministerie or that whyche is so bytterly spoken agaynst the Booke of orderyng ▪ Ministers and Deacons whyche they call the Pontificall But you saye that he may be lawfully called whyche is not ordinarilye I woulde haue you to speake playnely Is our calling to the Ministerie here in England lawful but not ordinarie If it be lawfull then is it not agaynste the woorde of God neyther is there any Lawe in the Scriptures to the contrarie as you woulde make vs to beléeue But truly I thynke that you were not here well aduysed or else haue you some suttle meaning for you adde immediately that there be places in Englande where the Ministers are called by theyr Parishes c. So that I suppose you meane that in some Parishes of Englande there is a lawfull callyng of Ministers if it bée so then is it not withstanding truly sayde that you
denie the maner of callyng Ministers in this Churche of Englande to be lawfull for that maner of callyng is not to be ascribed to this Churche which is vsed in some conuenticles and secrete congregations but that which is allowed by publike and common authoritie Your distinction of lawfull and ordinarie is not simply good for whatsoeuer is lawfull Lauful is ordinarie in a Church established in a Church established that is ordinarie I think that euen very cōmon reason dothe teache this to be true Wherfore certaynly if our ministerie bée lawfull it is ordinarie If any Parishe in Englande doe electe or call their ministers otherwyse than the orders and Lawes of thys Churche dothe permitte I can not sée howe that Parishe can excuse it selfe of schisme and I thinke verilye that suche Parishes ought to bée looked too in tyme. I doe not well vnderstande ▪ what you meane by these wordes in suche sorte as the examples of the Scripture doe shewe to haue bene doone before the Eldership and gouernmente of the Churche bee established What examples bée these you quote no places where to fynde them ▪ Or when was the gouernmente of the Churche and Eldershyp established If you had more playnly expressed these two thyngs wée myghte haue the better vnderstoode youre meanyng But belyke these Parishes doo not call theyr Ministers in all poyntes accordyng to the rule that you woulde haue prescribed and therfore you make an Interim of it vntill your gouernment be fully finished This is your dealyng to allowe of all things doone out of order yea though it bée against your owne order so that it tende to the derogation of publike and common order Whether they saye that the Gospell is not truely preached in this Churche of Englande The Admomtors denye the Gospell to be truly preached in Englande or no looke in the whole discourse of their booke and in the seconde Admonition page 6. where you may fynde these wordes I saye that we are so scarce come to the outwarde face of a Churche ryghtely reformed that althoughe some truthe be taught by some preachers yet no preacher maye without greate daunger of the Lawes vtter all truth comprised in the booke of God it is so circumscribed and wrapte within the compasse of suche statutes suche penalties suche imunctions suche Aduertisementes suche Articles suche sober Caueats Seconde Admonition pag. 6. and suche manyfolde pamphlets that in manner it dothe but peepe out from behynd the screene What say you to these wordes how can you salue them Whether they generally call all the Ministers of the Gospell which be not on their secte Phariseys or no lette the whole discourse of bothe the Admonitions iudge and that Pamphlet entituled An exhortation to the Bishops to deale brotherlye with theyr brethren In my answer to which pāphlet I proue that this name Pharisey doth much more aptely agrée vnto the Authors thereof and suche lyke than to the Bishops and other ministers whome they so often call by that name and so odiously compare them together in that pamphlet I must once tell you agayne that I make no argumentes here I doe but onely compare their qualities and conditions I haue performed my promise if I 〈◊〉 not shewe me wherin I peruert not the meaning of the Anabaptistes ▪ but set down the verie woordes of M. Bullinger worde for worde without any addition tion or alteration it had bene well if you had examined the places better Touchyng the falsification and vntruthe you charge mée with I thynke you be not in good earnest it is but bycause you could no longer temper your heate for you make manie of these outcryes but I suppose you vse them only as meanes to caste vp your melancholie whyche you call zeale Whatsoeuer I there speake of the Anabaptistes I fyndeit in the same forme of woordes in those leaues of M Bullingers booke whiche I haue quoted in the Margent Pervse with a little more diligence Fol. 18. where he hath these wordes Quod stipendia babeant non laborent atque ideo ventris ministri sunt and the. 102. And if you fynd not there word for worde all this that I haue here spoken touchyng the stipendes and liuings of ministers and in the same forme of wordes then vse your hotte Rhetorike but I knowe they 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Idem 〈◊〉 be there and you reproue you can not tell what If this so greately trouble you I wil tell you what Zuinglius also sayth of this matter in his Ecclesi istes where he speaking of Anabaptists sayth thus They teach that suche can not preache the Gospell syncerely whiche haue benefices but their hope is to haue the true Pastors expelled that they may succeede in their places and yet they publikely protest that they seeke for no liuing Nowe whether you or your men agrée with them in this poynt or no I neyther Zuingl in Eccles. denie nor affirme if you be prickte I can not blame you thoughe you kicke Neither do I say that those ought to haue stipends which labour not I do but report Bullingers wordes of the Anabaptistes I woulde haue no man exempted from due reprehension I only reporte this to shewe the malitious spirites of the Anabaptistes agaynst the ministers of the woorde that it maye be knowne of what societie they may bée suspected to bée whose talke is wholly bente against the Ministers of the woorde of God That you giue too little to Magistrates it shall be shewed in place Though you bée wearie it is no meruayle for it gréeueth you to bée touched so narrowly And surely if you vse no cleanlyer termes than you doe in this place or continue in pouring oute your choler in suche aboundance you will tyre mée also or euer I make an ende Whatsoeuer I haue here spoken of the Anabaptistes is moste true and therefore no slaunder Io. Whitgifte The. 3. Article Pag. 2. Sect. 3. Thirdly the whole reformation that was then in the Churche displeased them as not spirituall inough and perfect For the Sacramentes Bull. fo 9. 18 ▪ were not as they sayd syncerely ministred things were not reduced to the Apostolike Churche excommunication not rightly vsed no amendement of lyfe appeared since the preaching of the Gospel therfore the Church then reformed no more the true Churche of Christ than was the Papisticall Churche T. C. Pag. 4. Sect. 1. Wee prayse God for thys reformation so farre foorthe as it is agreeable vnto the worde of God wee are gladde the woorde of God is preached that the Sacramentes are ministredthat whiche is wantyng we desire it maye be added that whiche is ouermuche cut off and wee are not ashamed to professe y t we desire it may be done according to the institution of the Churches Io. Whitgifte The. 6. Article Pag 3. Sect. 3. Sixthly they pretended in all their doings the glorie of God Bullin fo 10. the edifying of the Churche and the puritie of the Gospell T.
you saye are * Thoughe they be vayne yet were they alleaged of them for sounde proofes and therfore necessarily con ted vayne foolishe vnlearned and to no purpose of that for whiche they are alleaged And if they be so where learned you to spende so muche time aboute them dyd you neuer learne that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to confute (a) It is no tri ing thing to abuse the scripture tri ing thinges seriously is a poynte of those whiche haue no iudgement to knowe what is meete for the tyme and place and other suche circumstaunces If I (b) You would if you could seing they are the foundation and groundes of that ooke shoulde of the other side nowe goe aboute too mayntayne euery place too bee not vnfitly quoted vnto that ende wherfore it is alleaged and shewe howe vniuste your reprehensions are and howe small cause you haue to leade th in oftentimes so gloriously in triumphe as you do which I assure you I could do in the most places As what could be more tly alleaged to induce to reade the booke than that they shoulde trie all things what more fitly to holde men from rashe condeinning of thinges than that they shoulde be slowe speake what more fitly to moue that they shoulde not illike of the goodnesse of the cause for the simplicitie or base degree of them that defende it than that we shoulde not haue the saythe of our Lorde Iesus Christe in respecte of persons And what more vmustly done than that you should whip them for the Printers faulte in putting one place for another If I saye I shoulde thus goe aboute to make good euery place howe euill should I deserue either of learning or of the truthe it selfe in blotting of muche paper whereby no profite woulde come to the Reader And if the dayes of a man were as many as the dayes of an oke I woulde neither willingly trouble nor be troubled with suche strife of wordes Seeing therefore God hathe shut vs in so narrow termes me thinke men shoulde haue conscience of pestering the worlde with such (c) What mente you then to pester the worlde with your vnprofitable treatises Pag. 10. Sect. 1. Therefore all these and whatsoeuer else wandring wordes I shall meete with in thys booke I ineane by Gods grace as deade things and nothing worthe to burie with silence and will answere to these things which couch the matters that lye in controuersie betweene vs. And as for the vnlearnednesse blind zeale malice intollerable pride contempt of all good orders and twentie such more things wherwith M. Doctor chargeth vs if our life and conuersation doth not confute them sufficiently our wordes and profesiion of our selues will not doe it And therefore we will first stay our selues with the testimonie of our owne consciences and then in the equitie of the iudgement of all those which shall indifferently consider these things that we are charged wyth And as for the sworde that is so hotly and hastily called for we hope it be in their handes whiche will vse it better than they are by you directed Io. Whitgifte I thinke those that shall reade my booke with indifferent iudgement will saye that I haue perfourmed my promise and am as spare in words without matter as conueniently I coulde be and muche more sparing than you are either in this place where you haue nothing but wor es or in the reste of your booke The vaiue of my booke and the vnprofitablenesse of it I referre to the iudgement of others I haue done my dutie in it as I am persuaded and satisfied my conscience I doe inueighe agaynst the authors of the Admonition in no otherwyse and sorte than modes ie and the cause it selfe requireth If I haue shewe the particulars note the places I speake not of their knowledge and learning otherwyse than it is vttered in their booke I neither despise them in suche sorte nor magnifie my selfe I leaue that to you and yours and thereof I require the testimonie of this your owne booke I boast not of anye profounde skill in Schoole learning I thanke God for that whiche I haue I refuse not the Uniuersities iudgement of me from the time of my firste béeing Sophister vnto this day I thinke it hathe béene and is better persuaded of me than I am worthy whiche appeareth in that it hathe layde vpon me as muche as vpon any one man from time to time from my firste péeping out vnto this day all the publyke exercises in all sciences that I haue professed without my séeking nay agaynst my will and I trust that I neither haue in dooing of them disgraced hir nor shamed my selfe But surely I am ashamed thus to brust out to the defense of my selfe if I were not therevnto compelled by your vnciuill and opprobrious spéeches My excursions be necessarie I pu no o tener nor in any other manner nor at any other sworde of the Magistrate than the state of the Churche my office and vocation and charitie it selfe requireth neither doe I meane the authors of the Admonition onely but their adherentes also Surely I beléeue that by that meanes these controuers es woulde shortly be ended and the Churche kept in great quietnesse and good order The confutation of the quotations was most necessarie and it is that that doth pinche The bayne quotations were necessarily confuted you moste sharpely True it is that they be vayne vnlearned and to no purpose and yet vsed as groundes of that Admonition and the doctrine therein contayned Wherfore the opening of the va itie and vnap nesse of them is the ouerthrowe of that booke which the common sorte thought to be all Scripture and nothing else but Scripture and therefore the doctrine therein conteyned to be moste true when as in déede the Scriptures be there as manifestly wrested and vnfitly vsed as they be of the Papis es and Anabaptistes And therefore thoughe they were vaynely alleadged of them yet were they necessarily confuted by mée M. Caluine in his booke against the Anabaptistes sayth That they winne credite with those that bee zealous bycause Caluin duers they pretende the woorde of God and haue it alwayes in their mouthe And therefore Anabap. though their allegations be friuolous yet doth he spende muche labour in detectyng them euen so saye I you pretende the woorde of God in all thyngs and thereby you doe deceyue the godlie and zealous people wherefore it is expedient that your groundes be layde open to the intente it maye be knowne howe crookedly and euill fauouredly you buylde vpon them If you coulde mayntayne euery place or manie of the places I dare say you would but surely I commende youre Khetorike Those places that you woulde séeme to giue some countenaunce vnto bewray your lacke of abilitie to defend eyther them or the reste For you answere not one woorde to the reasons for the whiche I disallowe them nor to the true sense
and meaning whiche I giue of them Truely if you shoulde thus goe aboute to make them good in so dooing you shoulde doe your cause no greate good But here you haue wholly omitted the. 15. of Mathewe and the. 16. of Luke The one whereof though it be corrected yet it is in a maner as farre from the purpose as it was before as it maye ap eare in the Additions and alterations c. at the ende of the fyrste booke Your woordes of pleasure whyche folowe bycause they bée but woordes I wholly omitte them as I will also doe in many other places where I shall fynde nothyng else least I make this Booke longer than is conuenient ¶ Whether Christ forbiddeth rule and superioritie vnto the Ministers Tractat. 1. The true interpretation of the twentith of Mathew c Reges gentium c. Chap. 1. The fyrst Diuision Ansvvereto the Admonition Pag. 13. Sect. 3. TO proue that they whose authoritie is forbidden by Christe wil Scripture ested haue their stroke without their fellowe seruauntes c. is quoted The tru exposition of the 20. of Math. c. Math. 20. Math. 23. Marke 10. Luke 22. In the. 20. Math. it is thus written Yeknovve that the Lordes of the Gentiles haue domination ouer them c. In the. 23. of Mathew Be ye not called Rabbi for one is your doctour or teacher to vvit Christe The places in Marke and Luke be al one with that in the 20. of Mathew The conclusion that is gathered of these places is very darke and generali they shoulde haue declared who they be that haue this authoritie forbidden and what the authoritie is Touching these places aileaged in the. 20. of Mathew 10. of Marke 22. of Luke Musculus and dyuers other learned men thinke that they extend not onely to the Apostles and menne of the Clergie as wee call them but to all Christians of what state so euer they be And it is the common opiuion of al wryters that these woordes of Christ doe not condemne superioritie Lordeshippe or any suche lyke authoritie but the ambitious desyre of the same and the tyrannicall vsage thereof T. C. Page 10. Sect. 2. 3. To come therfore vnto the matter out of the places of the. 20. of Mathewe and the. 22. of Luke where our Sauiour Christe vppon occasion of the mordinate request of the sonnes of zebede putteth a difference betweene * This is is a note of your owne deuising the ciuill and ecclesiasticall function he placeth the distinction of them in two poyntes whereof the one is in theyr office the other is in theyr names and titles The distinction of the office he noteth in these wordes the kyngs of the Gentiles haue dominion ouer them and the Princes exercise authoritie ouer them but it shall not be so with you Wherevpon the argument may be thus gathered that wherin the Ciuill magistrate is seuered from the Ecclesiasticall officer dothe not agree to one minister ouer an other But the (a) Petitio principij ciuil magistrate is seuered from the Ecclesiastical officer by bearing (b) aequiuoeatio dominion Therfore bearyng dominion doth not agrec to one minister ouer an other Page II Sect. 1. 2. Touching their names and titles he putteth a difference in these wordes And they are called Gratious Lordes but it shall not be so vvith you And so the argument may be framed as before that forasmuche as they are seuered in titles and that to the Ciuill minister doth agree the title of gracious Lordes therefore to the Ecclesiasticall minister the same dothe not agree For as it is fitte that they whose offices carrie an outewarde maiestie and pompe shoulde haue names agreeable to their magnificence so is it meete that those that God hathe remoued from that pompe and outwarde shewe shoulde lykewyse bee remoued from suche swellyng and loftye titles as doe not agree with the simplicitie of the ministerie whiche they exercise And whereas it myghte seeme somewhat vniust that he that hath the greater giftes shoulde not be preferred to those whiche haue lesse our sauiour Christe sheweth that the matter is farre otherwyse For by how muche euery man dothe excell his fellowe in the gifts of the holye Ghost by so muche more he ought to employe himselfe to the benefyte of others so that in a maner he shoulde become as it were theyr seruaunt to doo them good whiche although it be in parte common to the ciuill magistrate with the minister of the worde yet he dothe neuer lette downe hymself so lowe nor giueth his seruice eyther to the Churche or common wealth but that he dothe and ought in that seruice to retayne that dignitie and countenaunce with the markes and notes therof whiche his Princely estate dothe require In the ende he propoundeth hymselfe for example in whome he setteth before theyr eyes a perfecte paterne of the ministe For seeyng he beeyng Lorde tooke vpon hym to be a seruant and beyng Emperour and kyng of heauen and earth was content to want all the glorie shewe of the worlde his ministerie so requiryng it shoulde be great shame for them whiche were his disciples chosen out for the ministerie not to content themselues but to aspire vnto suche offices and dignities as they dreamed of Io. Whitgifte You saye that Christ in that place putteth a difference betweene the Ciuill and Ecclesiasticall functions and that in two poyntes in theyr office and in their names and titles the distinction of the office you saye he noteth in these wordes The Kings of the Gentiles c. of their names and titles these And they are called gratious Lordes c. Wherevpon you conclude as though all were cocke sure But I pray you tell me whervpon do you gather that Christ maketh any such distinction here eyther of offices or titles In déede he woulde haue a difference bothe betwixte the authoritie of his Disciples and other Christians and the dominion of Heathenishe Princes and also betwixt theyr affections in desiryng the same and therefore dothe he expressely saye The kings of the Gentiles c. If he had ment any suche distinction of offices or titles as you woulde make vs beléeue he would haue sayde The Kings and Princes of the Iewes c. or rather Kings and Princes without any Gouernment not forbidden of Christ but the kinde of gouernment further addition but séeing that he sayth the Kings and Princes of the Gentiles it is manyfest that he forbiddeth not onely to his Disciples but to all Christians such tyrannicall kynd of gouernment as the Gentiles vsed and that ambitious desyre and affection of the same whiche ruled in them For Chryste vseth to call backe those that bée his from errours and corrupt affections by the example of the Gentiles as he doth in the. 6. of Mathew from too much carefulnesse for meate drink such lyke Nam omnia ista gentes exquirunt For after all these things do the
Gentils seeke where he dothe not forbidde them to séeke for meate drynke and clothing but to séeke for it too carefully and with mistrust of Gods prouidence as the Gentiles did In lyke maner here he forbiddeth not gouernment either in the ciuil or Ecclesiasticall state but he forbiddeth suche gouernment as the Gentils vsed and such corrupt affections as they had in desiring the same Touchying your argument I saye it hath two faultes Fyrst it is a fallacion Two faultes in the argument of T. C. à petitione principij for you take it as graunted that the Ciuill Magistrate is seuered from the Ecclesiasticall officer by bearyng dominion whyche I will not simplye graunte vnto you for that is partely oure question Secondly your minor is ambiguous The ciuill Magistrate doth not simply biffer from the Ecclesiastical by bearing dominion and therfore in that respect your argumente may be also placed in the fallacion of aequiuocation for the worde Dominion may haue diuers significations It may signifye suche dominion as Christe speaketh of in this place that is rule with oppression It maye also signifie the absolute authoritie of a Prince suche as is mentioned 1. Samuell 8. Thyrdely it maye signifie any peculiar office of superioritie and gouernment vnder the Prince at the appoyntment of the Prince as the Diuers significations of the word Dominion authoritie of a Iudge Iustice. Maior c. Laste of all it may signifye any iurisdiction or kynde of gouernment If you take it in eyther of the two fyrst significations your minor is true if in either of the two latter significations it is false For wée graunte that there is greate difference betwixte the dominion of Kings and Princes and betwixte the Jurisdiction and authoritie of Bishoppes Kings haue power ouer lyfe and goodes c. so haue not Bishops Kings haue authoritiie in al causes and ouer all persons withintheir dominions without any limitation if Bishops haue any suche dominion especially in Ciuill causes it is not in the respects they be Bishops but it is from the Prince and limited vnto them Touching theyr names and titles you saye he putteth a difference in these woordes and they are called gracious Lordes but it shall not be so with you c. The woordes of the twentith of Mathewe bée these And they that are greate exercise authoritie ouer them In the. 10. of Marke the same woordes be vsed In the. 22. of Luke the Gréeke woorde is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 benefici vocantur they are called bountifull or beneficiall whyche I sée not howe you can by anye meanes applye to your purpose For Mathewe and Marke referre thys clause It shall not bee so among you not to anye name but to the ambition and tyrannicall kynde of dominion whyche our Sauioure Christe there reproueth as it is moste manyfeste And therefore thys place of Luke muste also bée expounded by them Neither is this woorde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of any suche imperiousnesse that Chryste shoulde forbyd Caluinus hys Disciples the name M. Caluine in his Commentaries interpretyng these woordes of Saincte Luke sayeth thus As touchyng the woordes where Mathewe hath that kings exercise authoritie ouer them in Luke wee reade that they are called bountyfull in the same sense as though he shoulde saye Kings haue plenty of all thyngs and are very ryche so that they maye bee bountyfull and liberall And a little after he sayeth that they doe appetere laudem munificentiae desire the commendation of bountyfulnesse I knowe that certayne of the Kynges of Egypte were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 munifici benefactores bountifull and benefactours and that they were delyghted to bée so called I know also that among the Hebrues theyr Princes were called Munifici liberales per antonomasian But what then if eyther they vaynegloriously desyred that name or were so called when they deserued rather the names of Tyrantes and oppressoures dothe it therefore followe that they be vnlawfull names for suche as maye deserue them The moste that can bée gathered of this place for any thyng that I perceyue is that the Kings of the Gentiles had vayne and flattering titles giuen them béeing nothing lesse in déede than that whiche their names did signifie and so maye it bée a good admonition for menne Howe the wordes Vos autem non sic may be reserred to names to learne to answere to theyr names and titles and to doo in déed that whiche by snche names and titles is signified Nowe then if you will haue Vos autem non sic but it shall not bee so wyth you to bée a prohibition to all Christians and especially to Bishops that they shall not ambitiously seeke dominion as the Gentiles dyd vniustly and tyrannously vse their authoritie as they also dyd nor haue names and titles to the whiche they doe not accordingly answere no more than the Gentiles did then I agrée with you But if you will haue Vos autem non sic to restrayne them from being called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is liberal benefactors c. as your interpretatiō agréeth not with the wordes of the other two Euangelistes so doth it not wyth any learned interpreter that I haue read To your argument concerning names and titles I answere as I did to the former Diuers kyndes of names Some names titles are proper to the ciuil Magistrate only as the names of Emperor King Prince Duke Erle c. These names are not giuē to any of the Clergie in this Church to my knowledge some names are cōmon to the Ciuill Magistrate Names common to ciuill and Ecclesiastical persons with Ecclesiasticall persons as certaine names of reuerence of superioritie of office The name of Gratious Lorde is a name of superioritie and of reuerence according to the manner of the countrey where it is vsed and therefore may well agrée eyther to the ciuill or Ecclesiasticall persons and in many places dyuers are called by this name Lord which is in Latin Dominus for reuerence and ciuilitie whiche haue verie small dominion As for the name of Archebishoppe or Metropolitane that is not proper to any ciuill Magistrate and therfore without the compasse of your argument Thus then you sée that some titles are proper to the ciuill Magistrate some to the Ecclesiasticall and some common to both wherby your maior is vtterly ouerthrowne As for this worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vpon the whiche you séeme to grouude your argument I see not why it may not be common to all men that shewe themselues liberall and beneficiall There is no man denyeth but that there is and must be great difference betwixt the pompe and outwarde shewe of a Prince and the state of an Ecclesiasticall person bothe in titles and other maiestie and I thinke that he is verie blynde that séeth it not so to be in this Churche of England yet may the Ecclesiasticall person shewe foorth the countenance of his degrée
haue disdayned them if they had broken out into such grosse faults For Aristotle teacheth that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whiche In his rhet ad Theod. is the (c) It is not the same for one is more generall than the other same that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the verb whereof the Euangelist vseth is against those that are supposed of them that beare the disdayne to be lifted vp higher and into better estate than they are worthy of which agreeth with that interpretation which I haue alleadged and cannot agree with the other which you set downe For who speaking properly would speake after this forte The rest of the Apostles disdayned at the two brethren or thought them vnwoorthy that they should beare tyrannicall rule ouer them Io. Whitgifte I haue declared both my authours and their reasons concerning the exposition of these places which may satisfye any man that is not wilful Your reasons to the cōtrary haue no ground but only vsed that it may be thought that you haue said something Beit that Christ told the sonnes of Zebede that they desired thinges not meete for them what is that to the purpose to proue that he did not reproue their ambition as though there may not be ambition both in desiring that which is vnlawfull and that also which is lawful I do not say that their ambitiō only was reprehended I maruel what you meane so to falsifie my words for I thinke also that he reproueth the tyrannicall rule of the kings of the Gentiles But this I with Musculus Bucer and other learned men constantly affirme that he condemneth not rule but violent and heathenish rule not superioritie or gouernment but the ambitious and gréedy desire of the same If it so displease you that I interprete the Gréeke words to signify a tyrannical rule and a gouernment by oppression blame Erasmus Musculus and Beza who so interprete them nay blame S. Luke who doth most euidently in the. 19. of the Act. ver 16. vse Mē called by titles not deserued one of these words in the same signification Why they were called Liberal and bountifull notwithstanding they be tyrants and oppressours I haue before declar 〈◊〉 desired the commendation of bountifulnesse and liberalitie though they 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 eserue it It is no straunge matter for men of great authoritie to be called by such tles as they do not deserue The Pope is called sanctissimus and seru s seruorum Dei and yet is he farre from doing any thing by these names signifyed Men vse to call their rulers and gouernours by their accustomed titles howsoeuer they deserue them though it be gracious or bountifull Lords when they haue no sparke of grace or bountifulnesse What rule or superioritie soeuer it was that the Apostles desired they desired it ambitiously and out of time and therefore were iustly reproued for theyr ambition I told you before that Christe in those places condemneth not ambition only but vnlawfull gouernmente also euen such as the Gentiles vsed of whome Christe in those places speaketh And whereas you say that the rest of the disciples disdayned the two brethren c. you do but spend inke and paper in dallying The disciples heard by their request that they desired promotion and preferment aboue the rest and therfore they disdayned them what opinion they had of their vsage in their offices that is vnknowen either to you or to me bycause the scripture hath not expressed it but thys I think that they were as ambitious in disdaining as the other were in desiring Your definition of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 out of Aristotle is néedelesse but only that thereby we may know you to be an Aristotelian for the Apostles disdained them bycause they desired rule and dominion not bycause they desired to rule well or to rule euil And surely an enuious person and a disdainfull hath not so much respect to the lawfulnesse or vnlawfulnesse of the preferment and promotion of him whome he doth enuy and disdayne as he hath to the partie that is preferred and to the preferment it selfe as it is not vnlike that there are some of you that disdaine such as be in place aboue you be they Deanes Byshops or Archbyshops although you say that their offices be vnlawful and tyrannicall And this vice is too common among you for you thinke some of vs to be lifted vp higher and to better estate that be not so worthy as yourselues hinc illae lachrymae if I iudge amisse let the modesty of your booke reproue me 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not one In that you say 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be all one you are much deceiued for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is indignatio ob res prosperas alicuius seu foelicitatem qua indignus est a disdayne for the prosperitie or felicitie of some man which he is vnwoorthy of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 est indignatio stomachatio quaelibet de qualibet causa is any kind of indignation or stomacking and for any cause so that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth conteine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and is as it were genus vnto it The Exposition of the place Matth. 23. Chapter 2. Ansvvere to the Admonition Page 15. Sect. vlt. Page 16. Sect. 1. 2. Touching the place in the. 23. of Matth. where Christe saide vnto Rabbi Ma The place of Math. 23. expounded his disciples Be not you called Rabbi cal no man father be not called masters Who is so ignorant to thinke that Christ forbiddeth by these words one Christian man to cal another Lord master Father shal not children call their parents father shall not schollers call theyr teacher master and shal not seruants call him master vnder whose gouernment they are Is it not lawfull for one to call another master Doctor Father Lord. c. Paule notwithstanding these words of Christ 1. Cor. 4. calleth himselfe their father and. 1. Tim. 2. he calleth himselfe the Doctour of the Gentiles Wherefore it is manifest that these names be not here prohibited muche lesse the offices but only the Pharisaical ambitious and arrogant affection of superioritie As it is also manifest by this that followeth whosoeuer exalteth himselfe c And surely as Christ condemneth heere the ambitious affection of suche as ambitiously desire these names of superioritie so dothe he in lyke manner condemne those who be so puffed vp with pride and arrogancie that they contemne and disdaine to call men in authoritie by the titles of their offices For pride contempte and arrogancie is as well in refusing to gyue honoure and reuerence as it is in ambtiouslye desyring the same But the chiefe purpose of Christ in this place is to teache vs not so to depende vpon men as though it were not lawfull to breake their decrees or to decline from their authoritie For there is one onely father Lorde and maister to whome we are
not to deuide Io. Whitgifte That matters of ceremonies discipline and kinde of gouernment be matters necessarie vnto saluation is a doctrine strange and vnheard of to me wherof I will by and by speake more at large after I haue in a word or two answered your obiections of the Byshop of Rome and of the sacraments of Baptisme and the Lordes Supper for you saye The case which I put whither the Bishop of Rome be head of the Church is a matter that concerneth the gouernment and the kinde of gouernment of the Churche and the same is a matter that toucheth faith and that standeth vpon saluation Wherevpon bylike you woulde conclude that matters of gouernment and kinde of gouernment are matters necessarie to saluation Surely I put no such case but I put such an example to proue that we maye reason ab authoritate scripturae negatiuè for this is a good argument we finde it not in Scripture that the Bishop of Rome ought to be the head of the Churche Ergo it is not necessarie to saluation to beléeue that the Bishop of Rome is the head of the Church the which thing notwithstanding the Papistes doe affirme for they say thus Subesse Romano pontifici omni animae est de necessitate salutis to be subiecte to the Byshop of Rome is of necessitie of saluation to all men Now sir my reason is framed thus against them whatsoeuer is necessarie to saluation is contained in the Scriptures but that she Pope shoulde be the head of the Churche is not conteyned in the Scriptures Therefore it is not necessarie to saluation But you reason cleane contrarie for you conclude thus whether the Pope be the head of the Churche is a matter of gouernment and of the kinde of gouernment but the Papistes say for that I take to be your meaning that it is a matter necessary vnto saluation that the Pope should be the head of the Church Ergo matters of gouernment and kinde of gouernment are necessarie vnto saluation Thus you sée howe popishely with a popishe reason you make a verie popishe conclusion Certainely no gouernment is to be brought into the Church that is directly against the word of God as the Popes is which doth not onely vsurpe the office and authoritie of kings and Princes but of Christe also and commaundeth things contrarie to faith and to the manifest worde of God wherefore his authoritie is wicked and damnable but it doth not therfore followe to make this a generall rule that the gouernment of the Churche or kinde of gouernment is necessarie to saluation Doe you not knowe of what force an argument is ex solis particularibus To proue that Ceremonies are necessarie to saluation you reason thus The Sacraments of the Lordes Supper and of baptisme are ceremonies and are matters of fayth and necessarie to saluation Ergo c. Undoubtedly you are as euill a reasoner as I am either an expounder or deuider bycause the Supper of the Lord and Baptisme be matters of saluation therefore are all ceremonyes matters of saluation wyll you ex solis particularibus conclude an vniuersall proposition furthermore you knowe that the Supper and Baptisme be not onely Ceremonyes but also Sacramentes instituted and commaunded by Christ hauyng promyses of saluation annexed vnto them and so haue not other ceremonies And you speake too basely of them when you cal them ceremonyes not shewing how or in what sorte they may be so called It is the nexte waye to bryng the Sacramentes into contempte and it argueth that you haue not so reuerent an opinion of them as you ought to haue Therefore the reader muste vnderstande that there be two kyndes of Ceremonyes Two kinds of ceremonies the one substantiall the other accidentall substantiall Ceremonyes I call Substantiall ceremonies those which be de substantia Religionis of the substance of Religion and commaunded in the worde of God as necessarie and haue promyses annexed vnto them as the Supper of the Lorde and Baptisme Accidentall I call suche as maye be done or Accidentall ceremonies vndone as order requireth and altered accordyng to tyme place person and other circumstances wythoute any opinion of Iustification necessitie or worship in the same pertayning onely to externall comelynesse order decencie c. of the whiche kynde these be that the Apostle Saint Paule mentioneth 1. Cor. 11. that men shoulde 1. Cor. 11. praye bareheaded and not women and suche lyke as I haue in my answere to the Admonition more particularly declared Such Ceremonyes I denie to be matters of Fol. 15. Sect. 5. saluation and in suche I saye as you also afterwardes confesse the Churche hath authoritie to appoynt from tyme to tyme as shall be thoughte expedient thoughe the same Ceremonyes be not expressed in the worde of God so that my diuision holdeth and is stronger than you shall be able to oūerthrowe wyth all the force you haue But nowe to your Paradox you saye that matters of discipline and kynde of gouernmente Matters of y e kinde of gouernment and discipline are not necessarie to saluation Two kindes of gouernmēt of the church are matters necessarie to saluation and of fayth And you adde that excommunication and other censures of the Church whych are forerunners vnto excommunication are matters of discipline and the same are also of fayth and of saluation There are two kyndes of gouernment in the Churche the one inuisible the other visible the one spirituall the other externall The inuisible and spirituall gouernment of the Churche is when God by hys spirite gyftes and Ministerie of hys worde dothe gouerne it by ruling in the heartes and consciences of men and directing them in all things necessarie to euerlasting lyfe thys kynde of gouernmente in déede is necessarie to saluation and it is in the Churche of the electe onely The visible and externall gouernment is that whiche is executed by man and consisteth of externall discipline and visible Ceremonyes practised in that Churche and ouer that Churche that contayneth in it bothe good and euyll which is vsually called the visible Churche of Chryst and compared by Christe to a fielde wherein bothe good seedes and tares Math. 13. were sowen and to a nette that gathered of all kynde of fyshes If you meane this kynde of gouernment then muste I aske you thys question whyther your meanyng is that to haue a gouernmente is necessarye to saluation Or to haue some one certayne forme and kynde of gouernmente not to be altered in respecte of time persons or place Lykewise woulde I knowe of you what you meane by necessarye vnto saluation Whyther you meane suche thyngs wythoute the whiche we can not be saued or suche thyngs onely as be necessarie or ordinarie helpes vnto saluation for you knowe that this worde necessarye signifyeth eyther that wythout Diuerse signification of the word necessarie the which a thing can not be or that wythout the which it can not so
obedience but in respecte of the commaundement and worde of God therefore it followeth that the word of God directeth a man in all his actions that which 1. Tim. 4. S. Paule sayd of meates and drinkes that they are sanctifyed vnto vs by the word of God the same is to be vnderstanded of all things else whatsoeuer we haue the vse of But the place of S. Paule in the. 14. to the Rom. is of all other most cleare where speaking of those things which are called indifferent in the ende he concludeth that whatsoeuer is not of faith is sinne but faith is not but in respect of the word of God therfore whatsoeuer is not done by the word of God is sin And if any will saye that S. Paule meaneth there a full persuasion and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that that which he doth is well done I graunt it But from whence can that spring but from fayth and how can we persuade and assure ouresclues that we doe well but whereas we haue the worde o God for our warrant so that the Apostle by a metonunie Subjecti pro adiuncto doth giue to vnderstand from whence the assured persuasion doth spring wherevpon it falleth out that for as much as ma our actions euen ciuill and priuate we ought to follow the direction of the word of God in matters of the Churche which concerne all there may be nothing done but by the word of Go (a) Then haue you heth r to stri ed in vaine Not that we say as you charge vs in these wordes when you say that we say that (b) Holde you here no 〈◊〉 c. may be in the Church except the same be expressed in the word of God but that in making orders ceremonies of the Church it is not lawful to do what men list but they are bound to follow the generall rules of the scripture that are giuen to be the squire wherby those should be squared out Io. Whitgifte When I say that the scriptures containe all things necessary vnto saluation I doe Now scripture 〈◊〉 the direction of all things belonging to the life of man Page 15. not meane that it containeth those things onely neither doe I denie but that the worde of God so containeth generally the direction of all things pertayning to the Churche or that 〈◊〉 fall into any part of mans life that nothing ought to be done in the Churche or in the life of man contrarie to the word of God or not according to the true intent and meaning of the same Yet doe I denie that the scriptures doe expresse particularly euerie thing that is to be done in the Church which you your selfe afterward confesse or that it doth set downe any one certaine forme and kynd of gouernment of the Churche to be perpetuall for all times persons and places without alteration as I shall hereafter more particularly declare The place you do alleage out of the. 2. chap. of Salomons Prouerbes doth not proue your purpose for Salomon there teacheth the fruites and commoditie of wisedome and in the person of hir declareth what vnderstanding he shall haue in righteousnesse iudgement equitie and euery good pathe that harkeneth vnto wisedome obeyeth hir commaundements and giueth his hart to knowledge But what is this to proue that the scripture hath expressed euery particular ceremonie or kind of gouernment in the Church how followeth this reason if Princes and such as be in authoritie receiue the words of wisedome and hide hir commaundements within them c. they shall vnderstand Pro er 2. righteousnesse iudgement and equitie and euerie good pathe c. therfore the scriptures do expresse euerie ceremonie order discipline or kinde of gouernment that is to be vsed in the Church surely except you take héede you wil wander as farre out of the way in aleaging the scriptures as the authors of the Admonition did in quoting them I graunt you that Princes muste giue them selues to the vnderstanding of wysedome and especially of the wisedome of God contained in his word for so shall they vnderstande righteousnesse iudgement and equitie and euerye good pathe c. But what is this to our question Magistrates must be directed by the worde of God Ergo they must make no ciuill or ecclesiasticall lawe or order which is not expressed in the word of God I deny this argument Your other text is written in the. 1. Cor. 10. VVhither therfore we eate or drinke c. Whervpon you frame this argument whatsoeuer 1. Cor. 10. we do we must do it to the glory of God but no man can glorisie God in any thing but by obedience and there is no obedience but in respect of the commaundement and word of God Therfore it followeth that the word of God directeth a man in all his actions to omit the vndigested forme of this argument wherin the conclusion agréeth not with the 〈◊〉 this text is as farre frō the purpose as is the other for what sequele is this we must do all to the glory of God we must obey the cōmandement wordes of God Ergo we must do nothing in our whole life but that which is particularly expressed in the worde of God Or therfore the scripture expresseth euery particular ceremonie or er or kind of gouernment to be vsed in the Church You may as well by this place conclude that euery ciuil actiō euery priuate actiō euery ciuil kind of gouernment is expressed in y ◠word For this rule of S. Paule is general and pertaineth to all Christians of what state conditiō or degrée so euer they be But the true meaning of S. Paule in y t place is that we seke y e glory of God in all things do nothing that is against his word and commādement He glori ieth God in meate drinke which acknowledgeth God to be the giuer of them and then is thankefull for them and vseth them moderately c. the like is to be said of all other actions That whiche Saincte Paule you say sayde of meates and drinkes that they are sanctified vnto vs by the worde of God c. It is true but to what purpose doe you alledge that 1. Tim. 4. place The woorde of God pronounceth all Gods creatures to bée good and the vse of them to bée lawful for al thyngs are cleane to those that bee cleane the same are to Tit. 1. 15. be desyred by vs of hym as the author and giuer of them and when we haue them wée must be thankefull for them But what is this to the proofe of any thing that wée haue nowe in controuersie But the place of Saincte Paule in the. 14. to the Romains you saye is of all other moste cleare c. Wherevpon you frame this argumente Paule speaking of things which are called indifferent sayeth that whatsoeuer is not of sayth is synne but faythe is not but in respecte of the woorde of God therefore
conuiuticles are fayne to glase vp the windowes that you open to secret and priuate conuenticles Io. Whitgifte But this you cannot omitte that I make it an indifferent thing to preach the worde of God in Churches or in houses c. it is an argument that you lacke good matter when you make such excursions from the purpose My words be that the scriptures speake not one worde of meeting in Churches fieldes or houses too heare the word of God of baptising in fonts in basons or riuets openly or priuately at home or in the Church c. If I haue said vntruly conuince me with scripture and shew me those places where these things be determined Where do I say that these things be now indifferent to haue the word preached is not indifferent but necessarie to haue it preached in this place or in that place in Churches in fieldes or in houses is indifferent vntill suche time as the Churche Things indifferent lose the nature of iudifferencie when they are commaunded hath otherwise determined So is it likewise in baptisme the sacrament is necessary the circumstances of time and place c. be committed to the disposition of the Churche and remayne so long indifferent vntill the Churche hathe taken order in them which being done then they be no more indifferente Do you not know that wherevnto so many Churches reformed and learned men haue of late subscribed it is the. 6. assertion Res alioqui per se mediae mutant quodammodò natur m. c. Things otherwise Theses eccles Belgio art 6. indifferente of themselues after a sorte change their nature when by some lawfull commaundemente they are either commaunded or forbidden bycause neyther then can be omitted contrary to the commaundement if they are once commaunded neyther done contrary to prohibition if they be prohibited as it appeareth in the ceremoniall law The place is not of the substance either of the word or of the sacraments but yet to contemne or willingly to breake the order appointed by the Church in such matters is sinne You say that I affirme it to be at the order of the Churche to make baptisme priuate or publike Surely you do me greate iniurie and win your selfe small credite by thys T. C. peruerteth y e words of the Answer kind of dealing Is it all one to say that the scripture hath not determined whether baptisme should be ministred opēly or priuately at home or in the Church and to say that the Church may make baptisme priuate or publike For hereby you would giue your readers to vnderstand that I thinke it in the power of the Church to appoint that there should be no publike baptisme wherin as I said you do me greate iniurie My words therefore and meaning tend to this end that the scripture hathe not any where expressed when baptisme should be celebrated publikely when priuately but hathe left that to the determination of the Church to do therin according to the circumstances of time person c. Neither do I call baptisme priuate in any other Baptisme is called pr ce in respec of the place respect than of the place and therefore my meaning is that the scripture hathe not determined where or when we should baptise at home in priuate families or in publike and open places as fields Churches c. For we haue examples in scripture both of baptising in houses and of baptising in fields Act. 8. 9. 10. 26. Therefore touching the place the scripture hath not determined any thing and in the respect of the place I call it publike or priuate although I sée nothing in the scripture to the cōtrary but vpon necessarie occasion and other circumstances it may be priuate in the respect of persons that be presente at the celebrating of baptisme for the number of standers by or of such as are to be baptised is not of the substance of the sacramente therefore in that also the Church may take order and hath therein to deale And as I thinke that in such respects baptisme may be priuately administred so The worde may be preached priuately both in r pect of the place and persons thinke I also that in the like respects the word may be priuately preached Neyther did the Apostles only preache in the Sinagogues and in open places but in priuate families and houses also as it is manifest Act. 5. Where it is said that the Apostles did not cease daily to teach and to preach Iesus Christ in the temple and house by house Act. Act. 5. 10. Peter preached in Cornelius his house Acts. 16. Paule preached in prison And Act. 10. not only was the word preached priuately in respect of the place ▪ but sometimes also Act. 6. in the respect of the persons as Christe preached to the woman of Samaria alone Io 4. Io. 4. And Philip in the chariot to the Eunuch Act. 8. Act. 8. Your scriptures brought in to proue that there may be no priuate preaching are very farre fetched and some of them very straungely applied That which Salomon saith Prouerb 8. proueth that God calleth all men by his word and by his works to follow that which is good and flye from that which is euill And I thinke that the meaning of Salomon in that place is that God dothe offer his worde to all persons in all places so that there can be no ignorance pretended But I pray you how doth this argument follow the worde of God is offered to all and openly proclaymed Ergo it may not be also priuately taught all your proofes and examples that follow be of like effect they proue that the word of God ought publikely to be preached but they do not take away priuate exhortations and preachings It is true that both Christe and his Apostles taught in Smagogues so it is true also that they taught in priuate families as I haue declared but yet I say the scripture hathe not appointed any certaine place of preaching For Esdras red the law in the streates Nehem. 8. wisedome crieth in the topps Nehem. 8. of the high places by the way side in the pathes in the gates before the Citie Pro. 8. Christ Pro. 8. preached in the Mountaine Math. 5. in the Sinagogue Math. 4. the Apostles in the Math. 5. temple and in priuate families do not you therfore sée that there is no determinatiōof Math. 4. any place wherefore the aptnesse of the place and the conueniencie of it likewise Act. 5. when the word is to be preached publikely when priuately is left to the iudgement and ordering of the Church And therefore it is true that I haue set downe that the scripture hath not dermined any thing of meeting in Churches fieldes or houses to heare the worde of God or of preaching in Pulpits chaires or otherwise There are and may be occasions euen in the time of prosperitie when bothe the word may be preached and the
is nothyng lesse bycause he is dead Concerning all the rest of your collections I haue not lightly knowne a man whiche ta eth so much paine w t so small gain which soweth his seed in the sea wherof ther wil neuer rise encrease For I know none that euer deined those things vnlesse peraduenture you would make the reader beleeue y e a those be contētious which moue any controuersie of things which they iudge to be amisse then it is answered before now I answere further that they that moue to reformation of things are no more to be blamed as authors of contētion than the Physitiō which giueth a purgatiō is to be blamed for the rumbling stirre in y e beliy other disquietnesse of y e body which should not haue be 〈◊〉 y e 〈◊〉 humors naughty disposition of it had not caused or procured this purgation Wheras you conclude that these contētions would be spon ended if M Caluins words were no ed here we wil ioyn with you wil not refuse y e (d) In any place that maketh with you but not otherwise iudgemēt of M. Caluin in any matter that we haue in controuers e with you which I speake not therfore bicause I woulde call the decision of controuersies to men and theyr words whych pertayn only to God and to his word but bicause I know his iudgement in these thyngs to be cleane against you and especially for that you would beate men in hand that M. Caluin is on your syde and agaynst vs. Io. Whitgifte If you your selfe will of necessitie inforce these qualities and conditions of Anabaptistes whiche I in the beginning rehersed vpon the authors of the admonition who can let you The moste that I haue sayde is that I suspecte them bycause they so agree with them in certaine qualities and practices But if they were bent that waye yet doth it not folow that they woulde by and by séeme to contemne M. Caluines or any other famous and learned mannes iudgemente For you knowe that the chiefe captaines of the Anabaptistes did not forthwith vtter eyther al their contempt of learned men or all their pestiferous opinions at the fyrst but vsed therin some policie suche as might most preuayle to winne credite vnto theyr faction You remember that Zuinglius in his booke called Ecclesiast sayth of the Anabaptists Zuinglius aducrs Anab. that though they protested and by othe denyed that they ment to take any authoritie from the magistrate yet shortly after it would appeare that they would haue bin disobedient to all lawes of Magistrates c. as I haue before rehersed the practise wherof is to be séene in Sleidan and other stories And although in the beginning it was pretended that the contention was but in matters of no great importance as cap surplesse tippet c. yet in the additions to the first admonition fol. 9. it is protested that the strife is for greater matters as for a true ministerie and gouernmente of the Churche and nowe you say that certain matters Fol. 5. sect vlt. Fo. 14. lin 5. Fol. 6. sect 4. whiche be in controuersie are matters of lyfe and death of saluation and damnation fol. 5. 14. Besides all thys the additions that you make to the protestation of your obediēcs to the ciuile Magistrate fol. 6. c. is verie suspicious so is your doctrine touching the authoritie of the ciuill magistrate also as I haue in an other place declared Wherfore how farre both they and you will as yet procéede is not certainly knowne In the meane tyme if by allowing suche as M. Caluine is some credite were not maintained wise and learned men would the sooner espie their dooings When I say that I trust M. Caluines iudgemente will weigh some thing with them I speake it but in comparison to the authoritie of suche as I haue before alleaged For I know they make small acc mpt of any author that writeth against them but least of all of the olde auncient fathers whom some of them are not ashamed to call pillorie Doctours They may therfore beare a countenance to suche as hate and confute Anabaptisme Papisme c. and yet both ioyne with the Papists and the Anabaptists c. in disturbing the Churche As the woordes of M. Caluine be directely to my purpose and my collections truly gathered out of them so is your answere thervnto verie weake and in déed nothing The woordes of M. Caluine wher vpon my seconde collection is gathered be these But bicause in externall discipline and ceremonies he woulde not particularly prescribe what we ought to followe bycause he foresaw that this depended vpon the state and condition of the tyme neyther did iudge one forme or maner to be agreeable to all ages Here we must haue respect c. Conferre these woordes with my collection and you shall sée them agrée in all poyntes And surely M. Caluine sayeth that fully and plainely in this place whiche I haue taken in hande to proue M. Caluine neyther addeth all nor some and therfore neyther haue I added them least I mighte séeme to be a corrupter of his woordes Your obiection of the Supper of the Lorde and of Baptisme is altogether friuolous for they be substantiall Ceremonies and not ceremonies onely but Sacramentes also and therfore must haue of necessitie an expresse commaundement in the worde of God Touching excōmunication I shal speake hereafter it is the matter that the Anabaptists so greatly vrged and for the not vsing of the whiche they separated themselues from the Churches where the Gospell was preached as appeareth in the bookes bothe of Caluine Bullinger and others against them I knowe that touchyng Excommunication whether the vse of it bée at all ymes so necessarye or no that it maye not bée altered learned men doe varie in iudgementes whose opinions in that matter I will deferre vntill I come where I haue farther occasion to speake of it If M. Caluine were alyue and vnderstode the state of our Churche and controuersie truly I verily beléeue that he would vtterly condemne your doings and I am the rather induced to thinke so bicause I vnderstande him to haue allowed many things in the Englishe Church being at Geneua which you altogither misselyke as Funeral sermons c. And therfore he would not thinke his wordes racked one whit to establishe any thing that he would haue had ouerthrowne The rest of my collections are most agréeable to M Caluines woords moste necessary for this present time and moste apte for my purpose and youre passing them ouer so slightly doth argue your lacke of abilitie to answere them In deede they flatly determine this controuersie and in effect ouerthrowe your whole booke Those that make contention in the Churche for suche matters as you doe and in suche sorte and maner can not auoyde the iuste accusations of being contentious persons and if the Physition giueth a purgation where there
it hath as euill successe here as in other places for when it is a great fault in diuiding to haue either too muche or too little you fault in bothe for where as you say they adde which teache or decree c. Besides that you leaue out whiche Moses mente you forget also that whiche your selfe had sayde whiche had placed adding too not onely in teaching and decreeing but in thinking or beleeuing And wheras you make foure parts of your diuision the three last are found to be all vnder the first member which is to make things of fayth and ceremonies contrarie to the worde and so your diuision is not onely faultie but no diuision at all * All this is spoken in contempt of the person not in defense of the cause The which thing I could haue easily forgiuen you and passed by as a thing not very commendable to trauell to shew the pouertie of those things which do sufficiently of themselues as it were proclayme their owne shame but that it grieued me to see a booke lengthened with first seconde thirde last as though euery one of them conteyned some notable newe matter which needed an Oyes before it to stirre vp the attention of the reader when there is nothing but a many of words without matter as it were a sort of fayre emptie apothecaries boxes without any stuffe in them And for that you are so harde with other men for their Logike I will desire the reader to pardon me if I pursue these things more narrowlier than some peraduenture will like of or I my selfe delight in And so for any definition or diuision that I can perceiue it standeth fast that nothing is to be done in the Church of God but by his cōmandement and word directing the s me It is true in deede if they be not agaynst the worde of God and profitable for the Churche they are to be receyued as those things which God by the Churche dothe commaunde and as grounded of the worde of God But there is the question and therefore you taking this as a thing graunted alwayes do alwayes fall into that whiche you charge other with of the failacion of Petitio principij Io. Whitgifte There is neither definition nor diuision here that can please you but what remedy when you iestes be vttered and you a little sported your selfe the matter commeth to trial there appeareth very slēder corrections I haue after my rude simple maner declared what it is to adde to the word of God or to take from it and haue Two contraties may be defined with one differēce not sought for any exacte definition But yet by your leaue two contraries may be defined by one generall difference when we talke of those things which be common to them bothe and do not séeke to separate them from among them selues but from all other thinges that be not of the same kinde So is vertue and vyce by this difference sensìm acquiri sensìm amitti separated from al other that be not sub habitu As Homo and brutum by this difference sensibile be separated from all other creatures that be not vnder Animal It is a common rule that the definition of that whiche is called genus doth agrée to euery part member vnder it which we call species be they contrarie repugnant or otherwise disagréeing the one from the other howsoeuer Therfore declaring generally what it is to adde to the worde or to take from the worde I say it is to thinke otherwise or to teache otherwise of God than he hath in his worde reuealed Whiche in genere dothe aptly expounde them bothe For as well he that addeth to the worde as he that taketh from the worde doth thinke or teach of God otherwise than he hath in his worde reuealed So you sée that a man of small dexteritie in defining may do that whiche you thought Zeno himselfe could not performe But what néeded all this pastime of yours do I not immediatly after seuerally declare both what it is to adde to the worde what also to take from it are you able to proue that the expositions whiche I set downe be not true can you better them Will you still more and more declare your quarell to be rather agaynst the person than the cause You saye I leaue oute that whiche Moyses especially mente to comprehende which is not to doe more nor to doe lesse than hee hathe commaunded Surely if you were disposed to deale modestly and sincerely as it behoueth you in so weightie a matter you woulde not thus wittingly and willingly séeke occasion of quarelling whether that whiche you saye is lefte oute muste not of recessitie be included in those words that I haue spoken of adding to the worde and taking from it or no I leaue to the indifferent reader to consider Touching my diuision I say as I did of the definition I am not curious in diuiding but I playnely and after my rude manner tell howe many wayes a man may adde to the worde of God Neyther dothe he alwayes diuide that sheweth howe many wayes a thing maye be done and yet is there nothing lefte oute necessarie to be expressed For this that you speake of thinking and beleeuing is included in the third kinde of adding to the worde The three laste kyndes are not founde to be vnder the fyrst ▪ for it is not all one to teache or decree any thing contrarie to the worde to make anye thyng necessarie to saluation not contayned in the worde to put any religion or opinion of merite in any thing that men them selues haue inuented besides the worde and to forbyd that as vnlawfull which God doth not forbid In the firste kinde is inuocation of Sainctes worshipping of Images c. whiche be directly contrarie to the expresse worde of God In the seconde is that decrée of Pope Boniface whiche maketh it necessarie to saluation to be subiecte to the Byshop of Rome and suche lyke whereof there is no mention in the Scriptures In the thirde kinde are all outwarde Ceremonies inuented by man wherein any opinion of worshipping or merite is put as holy breade holy water and other Ceremonies of that sorte In the laste parte is the decrée of Pope Nicholas Dist. 22. omnes where it is decréed that he whiche infringeth the priuiledges of the Churche of Rome is an heretike And in this sorte doe those adde also to the worde which condemne the vse of things indifferent as vnlawful for in so doing they make that sinne which the word of God dothe not make sinne Agayne that there is a great difference in the partes of my diuision and that they are not confounded you might haue perceyued if it hadde pleased you with better aduyse to haue weighed them for things may be decréed contrarie to the worde and yet not made necessarie vnto saluation Things may be made as necessarie to saluation which of them selues are not contrarie
to the word and yet not conteyned in the worde Men may haue an opinion of Religion and merite in suche thinges as they thinke not to be of necessitie to saluation To be shorte men may make that sinne whych the worde of God maketh not sinne as all those doe whiche forbid the vse of indifferent things and make the same vnlawfull as I haue sayde before You sée nowe that there is no one parte of this diuision as you call it which dothe not include something not conteyned in the other partes and therfore all those vnséemely and immodest tauntes and words mighte haue bin forborne I aske no forgiuenesse of you for any thing that I haue wrytten But I beséeche God forgyue you your outrageous contemptes and vnchristian floutes and iestes where with your booke is more pestered than any of Hardinges is where he sheweth him selfe moste scurrilous But I will omit them all and onely desire the Reader to consider of what spirite they come and in bothe our writings to respecte the matter not the person Touching the exposition of the places of Deut. let the learned Reader compare it with the expositions of the learned Interpreters and then iudge of my vnskilfull The Replier hath spēt many wordes in confuting that which he him selfe cōfesseth diuiding and defyning Here now I wold gladly know what T. C. hath proued agaynst the thing y t I haue here writtē or how he hath iustified y e propositiō of y e Admonition which I haue refelled for the sūme of al is this The authors of the Admonitiō say that those things onely are to be placed in the Churche which God him selfe in his worde commaundeth This I confesse to be true in matters of saluation and damnation But I saye it is vntrue in matters of ceremonies rites orders discipline and kinde of gouernmente which béeing externall matters and alterable are to be altered and chaūged appoynted and abrogated according to time place and person so that nothing be done agaynst the worde of God And T. C. confesseth page 15. that Pag. 15. Sect. 5. certayne things are lefte to the order of the Churche bicause they are of that nature which are varied by tymes places persons and other circumstances and so could not at once be set downe and established for euer and yet so lefte to the order of the Churche as that it doe nothing agaynst the rules aforesayde The same dothe he affirme in effecte in this place Nowe I pray you tell me what difference is there in our wordes he saythe that certayne thinges are lefte to the order of the Churche c. so that nothing bee done agaynst the rules aforesayde And I saye that the Church hath authoritie to appoynt orders rites ceremonies c. so that nothing be done agaynst the worde of God In déede he goeth muche further in this matter than I doe for where I saye The Scripture expresseth all things necessarie to saluation he affirmeth that many things are bothe commaunded and forbidden c. as I haue before noted and is to Pag. 13. Sect. 2. be séene page 13. of his booke But to ende this matter I haue iustified my assertion by the scriptures 1. Cor. 14. Act. 6. and. 15. 1. Cor. 11. Also by the testimonies of Iustinus Martyr Irenaeus Tertullian Cyprian Ambrose Basill Augustine c. Likewise by the practises of Councels the reporte of Historiographers as Socrates and Sozomenus Finally by the iudgement of late writers M. Caluin and Bucer Now will I also adde a fewe wordes for the further confirmation of the same and so ende this question ¶ The opinion of other late wryters of things indifferent The. 7. Chapter Zuinglius in his booke de baptis after that he had declared howe the Scripture contayneth Zuinglius all thinges necessarie vnto saluation he sheweth That in externall things and matters of ceremonies many things are to be vsed in the Churche whiche be not contayned in the Scriptures And speaking of this place Philip. 3. If any think otherwise God will also reueale the same vnto you neuerthelesse in that wherevnto we are come let vs proceede by one rule or agree among our selues saythe That the Apostle there speaketh of nothing else than of externall ceremonies and rites the vse and administration whereof the same Apostle in that place affyrmeth to be in our vvill and povver so that vve doe nothing repugnant to the commaundement of God Neyther trouble the publyke peace whereof we oughte to haue especiall regarde for externall thinges These be the very wordes of Zuinglius in the which there is first to be noted the interpretation of the words of the Apostle Philip. 3. Secondly that he vseth Collections out of Zuinglius this exception So that we doe nothing repugnant to the commaundement of God which T. C. so muche misliketh The same Zuinglius in the same booke verifieth in playne wordes that whiche I before haue touching a negatiue argument from the authoritie of the Scriptures Peter Martyr vpon the. 1. Corinth 1. wryteth That there be three kindes of traditions P. Martyr one expressed in the Scriptures an other playne repugnant to the worde of God The thirde neither contrarie to the worde of God nor yet necessarily ioyned to the same in the vvhich vve muste obey the Churche These three cautions beeing obserued First that they be not obtruded as worship of God or peculiar holynesse but as pertayning to order and the ciuill commoditie of the Churche and to comelynesse in diuine actions for all thinges be sufficiently contayned in Scriptures that pertayne to the worshipping of God and holynesse Secondly that they be not counted so necessarie but that they may be altered if time require Let the Churche keepe hir interest and authoritie in these indifferent things to appoynt vvhat shall be thoughte most necessarie and meete to edifying Last of all that the people of God be not burdened with to great a multitude of them Thus farre Martyr Gualter in his preface to the first Epistle to the Corinth after that he hath declared Gualter the diuersitie of rites vsed in diuerse Churches concludeth on this sort VVherefore S. Augustine writing to Ianuarius after that he had layde forth diuerse ceremonyes of Churches obserued in his time dyd very well thinke that this shoulde be the most safe rule vnto Christian men if they did frame them selues vnto those Churches wherevnto they should come in those things which might be done without any preiudice vnto fayth and godlynesse his wordes are these There is in these things meaning customes and rytes no better rule or instruction for a graue and wise Christian than that he do after that manner the which he seeth vsed of the Church vnto the which he shall peraduenture come c. The which moderation if all men woulde vse at this day there would be lesse contention in the Church neither shoulde Christian libertie be abridged by the superstitious traditions
of doctrine by many deliuered is sounde and good yet herein it fayleth that neither the Ministers thereof are accordyng to Gods worde proued elected called or ordained nor the function in such sorte so narrowly loked vnto as of right it ought and is of necessitie required Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 34. 35. The proposition that these libellers woulde proue is that we in Englande are so farre from hauyng a Churche rightly reformed accordyng to the prescripte of Gods worde that as yet we are not come to the outwarde face of the same For proofe hereof they vse this argnment There be three out warde markes whereby a true Christian Churche is knowen preaching of the worde purely ministryng of the Sacramentes sincerely and ecclesiasticall discipline whiche consisteth in Admonition and correction of faultes seuerely But thys Church of Englande for so in effecte they saye is voyde of all these Ergo it hath not so much as the externall face of a Church To proue that the worde of God is not preached truely they reason on thys sort The Ministers of the worde are not according to gods worde proued elected called or ordeyned nor the function in suche sort so narrowly loked vnto as of right it ought is of necessitie required And therfore the word of God not truely preached Here All pointes of doctrine pure in this church thankes be to God they alleage not one article of Faith or poynte of doctrine nor one peece of any substance to be otherwise taughte and allowed of in thys Churche for not euery mannes folly is to be ascribed to the whole Churche than by the prescripte worde of God may be iustified neyther can they Nowe howe this conclusion followeth though the antecedent were true let those iudge that be learned The Ministers are not rightly proued and elected c. An vnapt r son Ergo the worde of God is not truely preached howe wicked so euer the man is howsoeuer he intrude hymselfe into the ministerie yet maye he preache the true worde of God For the truthe of the doctrine dothe not in anye respecte depende vpon the goodnesse or euilnesse of the man I praye you howe were you and some other of your adherentes called elected c But to come to the purpose They woulde proue that the Ministers of the worde in this Church of Englande are not accordyng to gods worde proued elected called or ordeyned What force and pithe is in their argumentes shall appeare in the seuerall answeres to euery one of them This one thing I muste let you vnderstande that these men seeke to deface thys Churche of Englande by the selfe same groundes that the Papistes doe althoughe by another kynde of proofe For what haue the Papistes else to saye but that we haue no Ministers bycause they be not rightly called and so consequently no worde no Sacramentes no discipline no Churche And certainely if it were well examyned I beleeue it woulde fall oute that the Authors of this Booke haue conspired with the Papistes to ouerthrowe if they coulde the state both of this Churche and Realme howsoeuer subtilly they seeme to detest Papistrie T. C. Page 23. Sect. 1 2 3. (a) Where do I 〈◊〉 that they say so Where in effecte doe they saye that the Churche of Englande is voyde of preachyng ▪ and ministring of the Sacramentes is it all one to saye that the worde in the Churche of Englande is not purely preached and the Sacramentes sincerely and discipline seuerely administred wyth thys that the Churche of Englande is voyde of all these Agayne where doe they reason thus that the worde of GOD is not truely preached bycause the Ministers are not ryghtly proued and elected when as they haue not one worde of true preachyng Is it all one to saye it is not purely preached and to saye it is not truely preached Saynte Paule to the A cauill Philipp is gladde that the Gospell be preached althoughe it be not purely but he woulde neuer haue been gladde that it should haue been preached falsely or not truely Againe he inueygheth not agaynst the false Apostles in the Churche of Corinthe bycause they preached the worde vntruely but bycause they vsyng paynted words and affected eloquence and makyng a great shewe of learnyng and tounges dyd not preache the Gospell sincerely so that you see that it is one thyng not to preache truely and an other thing not to preache purely and so you see their reason is not so euill for the want of a good calling maye gyue occasion to saye that the worde of God is not sincerely taughte bycause there is not a lawfull and ordinarie calling For althoughe for the substaunce of doctrine and the manner of handlyng of it they that Sainte Paule speaketh to of the Philipp dyd not faulte yet Saynt Paule sayth that they dyd not preache purely bycause they dyd it of contention or of enuie whyche was no faulte in the doctrine but in hym that taughte Therefore let men iudge howe iuste your wayghtes are that expounde not purely not truely and whyther thys be to confute other mens argumentes rather than to skirmishe wyth your owne shadowes I knowe no Papistes reason thus that bycause we haue no Ministers therefore no worde no Sacrament no discipline no Churche For they denie that we haue the worde or Sacramentes bycause we holde not their worde and sacrifice but if there be that so reason yet these men that you charge haue neither any such antecedent or such a consequent For they neuer sayde that there is no Ministerie in England nor yet do euer conclude that there is no word no sacraments no discipline nor Churche For in saying that the face of the Churche dothe not so muche appeare for so the whole proces of their booke dothe declare that they meane when they say that we haue not scarce the face of the Churche they graunte that we haue the Churche of God but that for wante of those ornamentes whiche it shoulde haue and throughe certayne the deformed ragges of Poperie whiche it shoulde not haue the Churche dothe not appeare in hir natiue colours and so beautifull as it is meete she shoulde be prepared to so glorious a husbande as is the sonne of God Say you certaynely and do you beleeue that the authors of this booke are conspired with the Papistes to ouerthrowe this Churche and Realme Nowe certaynely I will neuer doe that iniurie vnto them as once to goe about to purge them of so manyfest slaunders nor neuer be broughte by the outrage of your speeches to proue that nooneday is not mydnight and therefore as for you I will set your conscience and you togither The reader I will desire not to thinke it a straunge thing for it is no other than hath happened to the seruaunts of God euen from those which haue professed the same religion whiche they dyd as it appeareth in the. 37. of Ieremie whiche was accused of certayne of the Israelites
argument is nothing worth nunquà m licet saith Zuinglius nequè in diuinis nequé in Zainglius profanis à facto ad ius argumentari it is neuer lawful neither in diuine nor in prophane matters to argue * à facto ad ius Neyther is the text as you report it for the words do not Of a deede or example to make a lawe signify that Paule would not haue takē him with him vnlesse they had al giuen such testimonie of him neither can there be any such sense truly gathered out of that place And it is manifest that the Apostles receiued Paule into their company at the testimonie and commendation of Barnabas only Act. 9. Chapter 1. the. 11. Diuision Ansvvere of the Admonition Pag. 38. Sect. 1. You say that there be admitted into the ministerie of the basest sort of the people I know not what you mean by the basest sort this I am sure of that the ministerie is not now bound to any one tribe as it was to the tribe of Leui in Ieroboams time now none is secluded from that function of any degree state or calling so that those qualities be founde in him whiche in that office are to be required T. C. Page 26. Lin 14. You know they meant by the basest of the people such as gaue but one leape out of the shop into the Church as sodainly are changed out of a seruing mans coate into a ministers cloake making for the most part the ministerie their last refuge c. And seeing that besides the words be playne the dayly experience teacheth it you neede not make it so straunge as though you knew not what they meant Io. Whitgifte I heare you say so but why did they then quote the. 1. Reg. 1 〈◊〉 3 that manifestly proueth the same sense that I haue gathered of their words and that text onely occasioned me so to do Chap. 1. the. 12. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 38. Sect. 2. 3. 4. I maruell to what purpose the twelfth chapiter of the first booke of kings is here quoted for Ieroboam is there reproued bycause hee tooke the priesthoode from the tribe of Leui to the which only it dyd apperteyne The Papists neuer tooke so great occasion of slaundring the Gospell Offences gyuen to the Pa pists by their contentions at the ignorance of the ministers for they haue of themselues those that be as ignorant and more as they do at your schismes and fond opinions wherwith you disquiet the peace of the Churche and lay stumbling blocks before the weake for the which God will surely call you to accoumpt The second chapter to the Romaynes is here quoted only to painte the margent Io. Whitgifte All this is passed ouer in silence VVhether Idolatrous sacrificers and Massemongers may aftervvard be ministers of the Gospell Chapter second the first Diuision Admonition The seconde In those days o 〈◊〉 5. 4. 〈◊〉 ▪ 44. 10. 12. 13. Ierem. 23. no Idolatrous sacrificers of Heathenish priests wer appointed to be Preachers of the Gospell but we allow and like well of Popish massemongers me for all seasons King Henries priestes king Edwards Priests Queene Maries Priests who of a truth if Gods word were precisely followed should from the same be vtterly remoued Ansvver to the Admonition Pag. 38. Sect. vlt. The place in the fifth chapter of the Hebrues quoted in the margent speaketh nothing of Idolatrous sacrificers or heathenishe Priestes but onely by the example of Aaron proueth that no man ought to intrude himselfe into the office of a Bishop or Priest except he be called of God Lord how dare these men thus wring the scriptures In the 23. of the Prophet Ieremy there is much spokē against false prophets but not one word for any thing that I see to proue that idolatrous sacrificers maye not be admitted to preache the Gospell Io. Whitgifte To this is nothing answered Chap. 2. the second Diuision Ansvver to the Admonition Pag. 39. Sect. 1. 2. 3. 4. Pag. 40. Sect. 1. The places of the 44. of Ezechiell haue some shew in them for there the Lord commaundeth the Leuites which had committed Idolatrie to be put from their dignitie and not to be receiued into the priestes office but to serue in inferioure ministeries I thinke you will not make this a generall rule to debarre suche from preaching of the Gospell as haue through infirmitie fallen be now with hartie repentance retourned We haue many examples to the contrary Peter forswore his master Christ which was as euill Peters forswearing as sacrificing to Idolls and yet he was not put from his Apostleship We haue diuers examples in the Primitiue Church of suche as by feare being compelled to sacrifice to strange gods after repented and kepte still the office of preaching the Gospell and did moste constantly die in the same T. C. Page 26. Sect. 1. What ought to be generall if this ought not to put the minister that hath bin an Idolater from his ministerie is it not a commaundemente of God and giuen not of one Leuite or two but of all 2. Cha. 23. those that went backe not at one time but at others also when the like occasion was giuen as appeareth in the booke of the kings where all the priests of the Lord that had sacrificed in the high places were not suffered to come to the altar in Ierusalem Doth not S. Paule make smaller 1. Tim. 3. causes of deposing from the ministerie than Idolatrie For after he hath described what maner of men the ministers should be and Deacons he addeth And being tried (a) S Paule his words and meaning falsisyed let them execute theyr functions as long as they remayne blamelesse I thinke if so be a man had bin knowne to be an adulterer although he repented him yet none that is well aduised would take him into the ministerie for if S. Paule reiect him that had ij wiues at once which was a thing that the Iewes and Gentiles thought lawfull and that was common amongst them and had preuayled throughout all the world how much lesse would he suffer any to be admitted to the ministerie which should be an adulterer and haue another mans wife which is condemned of all that professe the name of Christ and which is not so general a mischiefe as that was and suffer him to abide in the ministerie which should committe such wickednesse during his function and likewise of a murtherer now the sinne of Idolatrie is greater and more detestable than any of them in as much as perteyning to the first table it immediatly stayneth Gods honoure and breaketh duetie to him vnto whome we more owe it without all comparison than to any mortall man And if S. Paule in the choise of the widowe to attend vpon the sicke of the Churche which was the lowest office in the Churche requireth not only such a one as is at the time of the choise honest and holy
to learne suche an A. B. C. is not vnprofitable for any but you will still shewe that good opinion that you haue of your selfe and howe greately you disdayne all other mens labours Whether I haue truely sayd that note to be placed in the Margent in derision or no let the Reader iudge to whome also I doe referre the consideration of your modestie touching that matter He that indifferently considereth their quotations of Scriptures wyll thinke that the moste of them were not placed there in good earnest The argument whiche it hathe pleased you to frame of my wordes I graunte followeth not but thys followeth righte well it is fitte that ignorante Ministers shoulde be enioyned to learne suche thinges as be méete and profitable for them Ergo they maye be enioyned to learne Catechismes And in lyke manner it is méete they shoulde reade suche Bookes as maye instructe them Ergo they maye reade Catechismes I thinke a man by reading learneth and I suppose that to reade those things agayne whiche a man hathe forgotten is to learne them agayne if to learne be to vnderstande and to remember But all this your dallying about this matter is to bring discredite vnto this state of the Churche bicause there be many ignorante Ministers Wherefore I will answere you with the very wordes in the confession of the Churches in Heluetia VVe condemne all vnmeete Ministers not indued with giftes necessarie for a shepheard Confes. eccles Helueti that shoulde feede his flocke Howebeit we acknowledge that the harmlesse simplicitie of some shepheardes in the olde Churche dyd sometymes more profite the Churche than the great exquisite and fine or delicate but a little too proude learning of some others wherfore we reiect not nowe a dayes the good simplicitie of certayne so that they be not altogither vnskilfull of God and his worde Of the election of Ministers by the voyces and consent of the people Chap. 4. the. 1. Diuision Admonition The fourth Then election was made by the common r consent of the whole Churche Act. 1. 2 ▪ now euery one picketh out for himselfe some notable good benefice he obteineth the nexte aduouson by money or by fauour and so thinketh himselfe sufficiently chosen Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 42. Sect. 4. 5. 6. To proue that the election was then made by the common consent Matthias elected extraordinarily of the whole Churche you quote the first of the Actes I tolde you before master Caluines iudgement of that place there is no mention of electing by any common consent And in the place by you quoted whiche is the. 26. verse it is declared howe they gaue foorth their lottes and that the lot fell on Matthias and that he was by a common consente counted with the eleuen Apostles heere is no mention of any election But when he was extraordinarily through Gods prouidence by lot appoynted then they al counted him and esteemed him as one of the Apostles where as before some of them woulde haue had Barsabas I thinke your meaning is not to haue alwayes two at once to be presented to the ministerie and then one of them to be chosen by lotte I knowe none of that opinion Wherefore this example is singular and extraordinarie and therefore no generall rule to be followed If any man seeketh a benefice extraordinarily r ▪ vnlawfully If any man desire honorem the honor not onus the burthen opes the riches not opus the vvorke he hath to answere for it but I trust you wyll not accuse all thoughe perhaps you knowe some I meane of your selues and peraduenture your owne selfe Admonition The fifthe Then the congregation (s) Act. 6. 2. 3. had authoritie to call ministers in steade therof now they runne they ride and by vnlawfull sute and buying preuente other suters also Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 42. Sect. 2. 3. To proue that the congregation had then authoritie to call ministers you alleage the sixte of the Actes whiche place of the Actes I touched before It speaketh not of Ministers of the worde but of Deacons whiche were appoynted to make prouision for the poore only as you say neyther dyd the multitude of the Disciples for so they be called electe them before they were willed so to doe by the twelue Apostles It may be that some vse to runne and ryde and by vnlawfull sute A good rule may be brokē by some and yet good still and buying preuente others and it maye be that you haue experience heereof but all doe not so this is the faulte of the man not of the callyng you maye not ascribe mens infirmities to a lawfull order The rule maye bee good thoughe it bee by some broken T. C. Pag. 28. Sect. 4. It hathe bin likewyse shewed what was in that election extraordinarie and what perteyneth to the ordinarie callings And in the sixte of the Actes it was shewed if the Deacons should not be thrust vpon the congregation agaynst the wyll of it muche lesse ought the minister And if that congregation had by the commaundement of the Apostles an interest in the choyse of their gouernours I see not why the same cōmaundement remayneth not to be followed of other Churches Your reasons wherwith you would make difference shall be after considered Io. Whitgifte And I haue likewise answered to whatsoeuer you haue sayde there but you tell vs neyther there nor héere howe aptely this parte of the texte scilicet verse 26. is in this place quoted To your reason also gathered oute of the sixte of the Actes in the electing of Deacons I haue there answered onely I thoughte good in this place to set downe the iudgement of Chrysostome Hom. 14. in Act. Ideò boc non permiserunt Chryso Hom. 14. in Act. sorti ueque cum possent ipsi spiritu moti eligere hoc faciunt sed magis statuunt quod multorum testimonijs approbatur Nam definire numerum ordinare in talem vsum hoc sibi vendicant Eligere autem viros illis permittunt vt ne videantur ipsi in gratiam quorundam agere The Apostles dyd not committe the election of Deacons to lotte neyther they beeyng moued with the spirite dyd choose them thoughe they mighte haue so done for to appoynt the number to ordayne them and to suche an vse they chalenged as due vnto them selues And yet doe they permitte the election of them to the people least they shoulde bee thoughte to bee partiall or to doe any thing for fauoure Your reasons to proue that to be a perpetuall rule shall not God willing be passed ouer in their place Chap. 4. the. 2. Diuision Admonition The sirthe Then no (t) Act. 14. 13. 2. Cor. 8. 19 minister placed in any congregation but by the consent of the people Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 42. Sect. vlt. Coproue that no Minister was placed in any congregation but by the consent of the people you alleage the. 14. of the Actes and
of the. 2. to the Corinthians the eyght chapter In the. 14. of the Actes verse 23. for the whiche you haue quoted the. 13. it is thus written When they that is Paule and Barnabas had ordeyned them elders by election for so is some translation in euery Church and prayed and fasted c. The texte is playne that Paule and Barnabas did ordeyne them Elders T. C. Pag. 29. Sect. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. Unto these places of the first and sixte of the Actes is added firste the place of the fourtenth of the Actes where the authors of the Admonition doe proue that the election ought not to be in one man his hande but ought to be made by the Churche agaynst which master Doctor taketh three exceptions The first is for that it is sayde that Paule and Barnabas ordeined Elders whereby he woulde conclude that the congregations had nothing to doe But howe slender a reason that is it may be considered of infinite places in the Scripture whereof I will recite two or three In the fifthe Chapter of Iosua it is sayde that Iosua made him sharpe knyues for the circumcising of the children of Israell and a little afterwardes that Iosua circumcised them Shall we now vpon these words conclude y t Iosua dyd make the kniues himselfe or was a Cutler or beeing made to his hande did whette them and sharpen them or shall we saye that he dyd circumcise the children of Israell in his owne person and himselfe alone when as that was done by many and by the Leuites to whome that offyce apperteyned No but the Scripture declareth that Iosua procured sharpe knyues to be made and exhorted and commaunded the people to be circumcised In the eyghtenth of Exodus it is sayde that Moses dyd appoynt vnto the people Princes Captaynes ouer thousandes and hundrethes c. And if any conciude therevpon that he dyd it 1. Chap. verse 15. himselfe alone he is by and by confuted by that whiche is written in Deuteronomie where it appeareth that the people dyd choose them and presented them to Moses What is it then that is sayde in Erodus that Moses appoynted them but that Moses assembled the people and exhorted them to appoynt rulers and tolde them what maner of men they shoulde be and in a worde sate as it were moderatour in that election To come to the newe Testament In the Actes it is sayde that Paule and Timothie deliuered Act. 16. vnto the Churches the orders and decrees of the Apostles and Elders and yet it appeareth in another place that the Churche had also to doe and gaue their consent vnto the making Act. 15. verse 23. of those decrees so that the former place meaneth that the Apostles and Elders dyd go before and were the chiefe and directors of that action The same maner of speache is vsed of the * You say so but you shewe not one Romane stories wherein it is sayde that the Counsell dyd make Magistrates for because that he gathered the assembly and voyces whereby they were made and so S. Luke saythe heere that Paule and Barnabas ordeyned bicause they beeing the moderators of the election caused it to be made assembled the Churches tolde them of the necessitie of hauing good pastors and gouernoures gathered the voyces tooke heede that nothing should be done lightly nothing tumultuously or out of order And so to conclude it is an euill reason to say as M. Doctor dothe that bicause S. Luke hath that Paule and Barnabas ordeyned therefore the people were excluded Io. Whitgifte If the reason groūded vpon the playne words of the scripture be but a slender reason then do I confesse that to be so likewise Howbeit very godly and learned men thinke it a reason sufficient Zuinglius in his Eccless sayth that some were called elected Zuinglius Bullinger to the ministerie of the worde by the Apostles onely Bullinger in his thirde booke aduersus Anabap. Cap. 4. sayth thus Paulus Barnabas presbyteros seu ministros elege unt in ecclesijs Asiae Paule and Barnabas did choose Elders or Ministers in the Churches of Asia Those places of Scripture that you recite may proue that there are suche maner of speaches in the scripture but they proue not that this is suche and therefore you haue in vayne rehearsed them The example of Iosua is farre from prouyng thys phrase to bée suche sor you affirme that Iosua is sayde to make sharpe knyues and to Circumcic onelye bycause hcc procured sharpe knyues to bee made and commaunded the people to bee circumcided and not bycause hee hym selfe bydde sharpen the knyues or circumcyde in hys owne person But it is certaine that Paule and Barnabas had to doe in this action and didde themselues in theyr owne persons ordeyne ministers and not commaunde others to ordeyne them Wherefore the manner of speache can not bée lyke excepte you will expounde thys place thus Paule and Barnabas ordeyned them Elders that is commaunded the people to choose them Elders whyche interpretation were straunge for thys place and vnhearde of beefore That in the syrste of Deuteronomie dothe not directely proue that Moyses alone didde not appoynte those Magistrates for althoughe he wylled the people to bryng vnto him menne of wysedome and of vnderstandyng c. yet it followeth not that they didde so but it rather appeareth that they commytted the choyse of them wholly to hym for after in the fyftéenth verse of the same Chapter he sayeth So I tooke the chiefe of youre tribes wyse and knowne men and made Deu. 1. Ver. 15. them rulers c. Manyfest it is that whether the people named any vnto hym or no he appoynted them and gaue them theyr authoritie so that the maner of speache is proper and without any trope or figure But doe you not still secretly pushe at the authoritie of the Ciuill Magistrate T. C. vnder an other pretence pusheth at the ciuill Magistrate vnder the pretence of speakyng agaynst the state Ecclesiasticall For howesoeuer you woulde séeme to bryng in the place in the eightéenth of Exodus to proue the phrase and manner of speaking yet maye you bée thoughte secretely to insinuate that Princes maye not appoynte vnder-officers without the Election of the people And surely if your dealing in this place bée well marked it may easily be séene that in reasonyng agaynst the gouernemente of the Churche you laye the groundes of confoundyng or at the leaste of chaungyng the state of the Common wealth In the fiftéenth of the Actes ver 22. and. 23. there appeareth that the whole Churche together wyth the Apostles and Elders didde sende certayne chosen menne of theyr owne companye to Antiochia wyth Paule and Barnabas c. and wrote Letters by them conteynyng these Decrées wherevnto though the people subscribed and gaue theyr consente yet it followeth not but that the Apostles and Elders made them As it also appeareth verse 2. and. 6. of the same chapter
to him alone who knoweth those that be his If they communicate with vs in hearing the worde and receyuing the Sacramentes thoughe otherwyse they be drunkardes supersticious or infected with errours in doctrine c. yet must we count them in the Church vntil they be cut of from it by excommunication Wherefore whoremōgers Papistes Idolatrous and superstitious persons though they be knowne to be suche if they do cōmunicate with vs in the word and sacraments are to be counted in the Church vntill they be orderly secluded from the same And yet there may be Papistes Atheistes and suche lyke though they be not commonly knowne to be suche And you knowe well inough that they which in déede are Papistes in opinion yet if they be content to conforme them selues to the outwarde orders of the Churche would stande in their owne defense agaynst him that should accuse them They 〈◊〉 are in the Church and not of the Church are not hypocrite onely T. C. eueth place agaynst himselfe Neither is it true that onely hypocrites are suche as be in the Churche and are not of the Churche That chapter which you quote in your margent and almost the whole Epistle doth declare the contrarie For the incestuous Corinthian was in the Church vntill he was excommunicated And the Apostle there speaking of whoremongers Idolaters c ▪ sayth Si quis cum frater appelletur fuerit s ortator c. If any whiche is called Cor. 5. a brother be a fornicatour or couetous or an Idolater or a rayler or a drunkarde or an extortioner with suche one eate not By the name of brethren were those onely then called whiche did professe themselues to be Christians and were so accounted to be And master Caluine speaking agaynst the like errour of the Anabaptistes after that he had spoken of hypocrites in the Churche addeth and sayth Nonnunquà m etiam admixti Caluin aduers. Anabap. contemptores dei vitae dissolutae flagitiosae aut qui sibi cauebunt ne reprehendantur ab hominibus sed interim ostendunt se nullo dei timore nulla reuercntia tangi Oftentimes also there are mingled contemners of God men of dissolute and wicked life or suche as wil be sure to keepe them selues out of daunger of mens reprehension when as notwithstanding they shewe themselues not to be touched with any feare or reuerence of God If you meane that place 1. Cor. 5. where S. Paule sayth Si quis cum frater appelletur c. If any man which is called a brother c. and thinke that thereby they are secluded from the externall societie of the Churche you take the words of S. Paule amisse as the Anabaptistes did to whome obiecting that place M. Caluine answered in his booke written agaynst them in this maner Quòd autem vetat Paulus cum his cibum sumere Ibidem qui sunt vitae dissolutae id ad priuatam consuetudinem pertinet nō ad publicam cōmunionem VVheras Paule forbiddeth that we should eate with them which are of a dissolute life and behauiour that perteyneth onely to priuate familiaritie and not to the publike cōmunion Nowe if we ought to receyue the Communion with them we ought also to accompt them in the externall societie of the Churche But why do you thus séeke to shifte of those matters whiche you can not answere Is it not certayne that there is in the externall societie of the Churche a farre greater number of suche than there was in the Apostles time whiche if it be true as it can not be denied then do I still affirme that the election of the minister can not be safely committed to the people It is wel that you take vpō you to prescribe vnto the Magistrate how to deale with such as be not in the Church I pray you where finde you any such maner of dealing towards them appoynted vnto the ciuill Magistrate if you haue any scripture for it why do you not alleage it if you haue none what presumption is entred into you thus imperiously to prescribe lawes vnto Magistrates But what if there be playne scripture that they ought not to be admitted to the hearing of the worde if they be Math. 7. dogges and swine what say you to this Giue not that which is holy to dogges neither cast ye your pearles to swyne Your distinction betwixte the Churche and the common wealthe if it were in Neroes or Dioclesians time mighte be admitted withoute exception but in my opinion it is not so fytte in thys tyme and especially in this kingdome Maye he be a member of a Christian common wealth that is not in the Church of Christ if you had sayde that he maye be in the power and at the wyll and pleasure of a Christian Magistrate that is not in the Churche of Christe I coulde well haue lyked of it but it can not yet synke into my head that he should be a member of a Christian common wealth that is not also a member of the Churche of Christ concerning the outwarde societie M. Musculus in my iudgement speaketh truely agaynst this distinction of yours betwixte the Church and a Christian common wealth in his com pla it de magistra Let the Ethnikes and Infidels liuing not in the vnitie of truth but in the confusion Musculus of errors haue diuerse Magistrates and lawmakers some prophane and some holy bycause their lyfe is altogether prophane and their Religion nothing else but superstition Christian people are in euery respecte holy and consecrated vnto the name and glory of Christ not in temples onely and ecclesiasticall ceremonies but in all their lyfe in euerye place at all times in all things actions and studyes that according to the Admonition of the Apostle 1. Cor. 10. whether he eateth or drinketh or whatsoeuer he doth he doth it to the glorie of God c. wherfore that distinction of ecclesiasticall and prophane lawes can haue no place in it bycause there is nothing in it that is prophane seyng that it is a holy people vnto the Lorde God and the Magistrate is holy and not prophane his authoritie holy hys lawes holy c. be it therefore farre from the Church of Christ that it should be partly holy partly prophane c. But all this from the purpose and you make to many friuolous digressions from the matter which compelleth me also in following you to doe the lyke Chap. 6. the. 5. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 45. Sect. 2. Fiftly in the Apostles time there was no Churche established being In the Apostles time no church established and no christian Magistrate then no Christian Magistrates and therefore the state of the Church was popular nowe there is Christian Magistrates and a Church established and subiect to rulers c. T. C. Pag. 35. Sect. 1. If there be no churches established bycause there were no Christian Magistrates then the churches of the Apostles were not established
heere you attribute vnto it that euery one hand ouer head preached baptised and expounded the scriptures what a window nay what a gate is opened heere to (a) The Anabaptists glory of the same calling that you c 〈…〉 for Anabaptists to confirme their fantasticall opinion wherein they hold that euery man whome the spirite moueth may come euen from the plough tayle to the pulpit to preach the word of God If you say it is Ambrose saying not yours I answer vnlesse you allow it why bring you it and that to proue the difference betweene the Apostles times and these For if it be false as it is most false then there is no difference heere betweene the Apostles times and ours Doth not the whole course of the scriptures declare and hath it not bin proued that there was none that tooke vpon him the ministerie in the church but by lawfull calling what is this but to cast dust and dirt of the fairest and beautifullest image that euer was to make a smokie disfigured euill proportioned image to seeme beautifull to ouerthrow the Apostles buildings of golde and siluer and precious stones to make a cotage of wood strawe and stubble to haue some estimation which could haue none the other standing For in effect so you do when to vphold a corrupt vse that came in by the tyrannie of the Pope you go about to discredite the orders and institutions whiche were vsed in the Apostles times and that with suche manifest vntruthes Io. Whitgifte This is a very slender answer to Ambrose whose authoritie both for his excellent Ambrose vnworthyly r 〈…〉 ted by T. C. learning and vertue and also for his antiquitie is not to be so contemptuously reiected The selfesame word and to the same effect doth Georgius maior in his commentaries vpon the first to the Philip. recite out of one Rabanus Byshop of Moguntia who also borowed them as it should séeme of Ambrose Maior alloweth well of them and maketh no suche exclamations as you do and yet a man knowne to be learned and sound in religion as his works declare Likewise the authors of the Centuries 4. Cent. cap. 7. alledge this same place of Ambrose and allow of it and therefore the matter is not so heynous as you make it Anabaptistes pretende a kind of calling by the â—eople The Anabaptists glory of the same calling that you nowe contend for as it appeareth in the. 3. booke of M. Bullinger aduer Anabap. cap. 4. whose words be these suam verò vocationem c. They affirme that their calling is iust bycause they be called and sent of their 〈◊〉 Churches but our vocation to be vnlawful which is made of the magistrate and therefore that they are sent of God but we of the world and of men You know that this was one of the first things that the rusti all Anabaptists moued sedition for and that they required it of the magistrates as Sleydan declareth li. 5. ex his postulatis saith he primuÌ„ erat vt 〈◊〉 ipsis liceret ecclesiae ministros eligere qui verbum dei purè doceant Of those requests the firste was that they might choose ministers of the Church which might teach the worde of God purely You sée therefore that the Anabaptists many of them require a vocation and one not much vnlike that which you striue for in this place and at this time When Ambrose saith that it was permitted to euery man to preach the Gospell c. he dothe not say that it was permitted vnto them withoute some kinde of calling if you will vewe the place well and consider it at large as it is in Ambrose your heate will be something quenched I doubt not It is no derogation at all from the Apostolicall Church to haue the orders of it in diuers points altered for though suche were most conueniente then for that state time and persons yet are they not so now in respect of this state time and persons so that the forme of the Apostolicall Churches was then perfyte and absolute though now it admitte in the respect of diuers circumstances alteration Chap. 6. the. 15. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Page 45. Sect. vlt. Musculus also in his common places answering to this question Musculus why that ministers of the word are not chosen now by the ministers and the people as they were in the primitiue Church but appoynted by the Magistrate saith thus talis tum ecclesiarum erat status vt aliter noÌ„ essent eligendi ministri quia Christiano magistratu destituebantur Si reuocas temporum illorum mores primùm conditiones statum quoque illorum reuoca Such vvas then the state of Churches that they coulde choose their ministers no othervvise bycause they had no Christian Magistrates If thou vvouldest haue the manners and customes of those times obserued then must thou call backe their conditions and state T. C. Page 38. Sect. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. vlt. Sect 39. Sect. 1 2. The place is to commoÌ„ which you assigne you had I am sure the booke before you you might haue tolde where the place was and in what title But that place of Musculus in the title of the magistrate is answered by himsel e in the same booke where he entreateth of the election of the ministers For going about as it seemeth to satisfie some of their ministers whiche were brought in do bt of their calling bycause they were not chosen by their Churches speaking of the vse of the Church in choosing their minister he sayth thus First it must be playnly confessed that the ministers were in times past chosen by consente of the people and or eyned and confirmed of the seignioures Secondarily that that forme of election was Apostolicall and lawfull Thirdly that it was conformable to the libertie of the Church and that thrusting the Pastor vpon the Churche not being chosen of it doth agree to a Church that is not free but subiecte to bond ge Fourthly that this forme of choise by the Churche maketh much both to that that the minister may gouern his slocke with a good conscience as also that the people may yeld themselues to be easlier ruled than when one commeth against their willes vnto them And to conclude all these he sayth that they are altogyther certeyne and such as cannot be denyed After he sayth that the corrupt estate of the Church and religion driueth to alter this order and to call the election to certayne learned men which should after be confirmed of the Prince And that it may yet more cleerely appeare that his iudgement is nothing lesse than to confirme this election he setteth downe their election in Bernland whiche he approueth and laboureth to make good as one which although it doth not fully agree with the election of the primitiue Churche yet commeth very neare vnto it As that not one maÌ„ but al the ministers in the citie of Berue do choose
a Minister of the worde To conclude if the election of a Byshop had of necessitie perteyned to the people Paule woulde not haue written in this manner to Timothie as he hath done describing vnto him what qualities he that is to be elected Byshoppe oughte to haue but he woulde rather haue written the same to the people or willed Timothie to declare it vnto them Neyther doth he any where in any of hys Epistles wryte to any Church to gyue them any instructions in this so necessarie a matter but onely wryteth of the same in those Epistles to Timothie and Titus beyng Byshops which maye be an argument that the ordering of Ministers doth properly apperteyne to a Bishop and that thys also manus citò c. is spoken to Timothie in that respect A man mave wryte to hys friende that hath interest in an election but Paul doth not onely write vnto Timothie as to one that hath interest but as to one in whom the whole interest consisteth When you say that Paule attributeth that to Timothie that was common to him wyth moe if you meane moe Bishops then it is true for it is a rule for all Bishops to follow but if you meane other of the people then doe you but shifte of the matter with ghessing To your proofes of that phrase and kynde of speache I haue answered before it is but a starting hole to flie vnto when you are foyled by the playne and euident woordes of the Scripture That whiche is by you alleaged 2. Ti. 1. and 1. Ti. 4. maketh for my purpose for you haue before confessed that imposition of handes was not by Fol. 31. Sect. 4. the Churche and people but by the Elders and Ministers and you alleage these places 1. Timo. 4. and 2. Timo. 1. to proue the same And therefore I muche maruell to what ende you nowe alleage them excepte it be to proue your phrase for they cannot proue anye election made by the people vnlesse you will say and vnsay at your pleasure But to put you out of doubt imponere manus to lay on hands somtimes signifieth the To laye on hands is diuersly taken Bullinger ceremonie only of laying on of hands and somtimes the whole maner forme of ordering And in this second signification it is taken 1. Ti. 5. 2. Ti. 1. Bull. expoundyng this place 1. Ti. 5. sayth manus enim imponere aliud non est quā ecclesiae aliquē praeficere ordinare To lay on hands is nothing else but to ordeine appoynt one ouer the Church And interpreting y t also 2. Ti. 1. he saith Paulus in praesenti per donū dei prophetiae donū intellexit functionē Episcopalē ad quam vocarat Timotheū dominus sed per ministeriū Pauli qui ideò nunc ▪ dicit donum illud in Timotheo esse per impositionem manuum suarum Paul doth heere vnderstande by the gifte of God the gifte of Prophecie and the offyce of a Bishop vnto the which the Lord had called Timothie but by the ministerie of Paule who for that cause nowe sayth that that gift was in Timothie by the imposition of his hands And M. Caluine Institu Cap. 8. Sect. 50. decideth this matter fully in these wordes Sed Paulus ipse alibi se Caluine c. But Paule himselfe in another place doth testifie that he and no moe did lay his hands vpon Timothie I admonishe thee sayth he that thou stirre vp the grace which is in thee by the imposition of my handes For where it is sayde in the other Epistle of the laying on of the handes of the eldership I do not so take it as thoughe Paule spake of the Colledge of Elders but in this name videlicet presbyterij I vnderstand the ordination it selfe as if he should say endeuour thy selfe that the grace be not in vayne which thou hast receyued by the laying on of hands when I ordeyned thee a minister Agayne vpon this 1. Tim. 5. he sayth thus Impositio manuum ordinationem significat signum enim pro re ipsa capitur The imposition of handes signifieth the ordering for the signe is taken for the thing it selfe For what is it to appoynt but to call elect ordeyne Moreouer that which Paule sayth to Titus Vt constituas c. dothe expounde this to Timothie manus citò c. and therefore in déede I make no difference in this place betwixte election ordeyning and imposition of handes Last of all you say that you answere though this mighte agree to Timothie alone c. If it agreed to Timothie alone it must néedes followe that it may agrée to other Bishops also for Timothie was a Bishop as it shall be by better reason proued than you Tract 8. are able to shewe any to the contrarie This that you speake of his Euangelistship and of his superioritie in that respect is onely spoken without reason or authoritie but you shall haue store of bothe to the contrarie God willing when I come to that place I am not so lauishe of my witnesses as you are of scornefull and vnséemely tauntes and speaches Bothe Ambrose and Chrysost. doe not say that Paule héere warneth Timothie onely to be circumspect but to be circumspect in appoynting of Ministers and if it were not so I doubt not but that I shoulde heare of it The words are spoken to Timothie in respecte that he was Bishop neither hath the Apostle giuen any suche like Admonition to any Church in any of his Epistles as I haue before noted And therfore Ambrose in his exposition of this place to Timothie after that he had shewed what circumspection the Apostle would haue to be vsed in ordeyning of Ministers concludeth thus Haec Episcopus custodiens castum se exbibebit religioni A Bishop obseruing Ambrose these things shall shewe himselfe pure in religion Whereby he signifieth that this precept is properly perteyning to a Bishop Chrysostome also in the. 1. Tim. 4. vpon Chrysostome these wordes Cum impositione manuum presbyterij sayth Non de presbyteris hoc loco sed de Episcopis loquitur ▪ non enim profectò presbyteri ipsum ordinarunt He speaketh not of priests in this place but of Bishops for certaynely priestes did not ordeyne him And Oecolam Oecolampad vpon the same wordes Presbyteros dicit Episcopos neque enim presbyteri Episcopum ordinabant He calleth Bishops Priestes for Priests did not ordeyne a Bishop Whereby it playnely appeareth that these auncient fathers thinke this precept manus citò ne cui imponas lay thy handes sodenly on no man to be giuen onely to Timothie in the respect that he was Bishop and therefore also to apperteyne vnto Bishops onely to ordeyne Ministers Hierome vpon that place to Titus sayth Audiant Episcopi qui habent constituendi Hierome Presbyteros per vrbes singulas potestatem sub quali lege ecclesiasticae potestatis ordo teneatur Let Bishops which haue authoritie to appoynt
by M. Doctor that they are but for a time Io. Whitgifte If you meane Prophetes in the respecte of the gifte of telling thinges to come Act. 11. suche as Agabus was then be they temporall but yet ordinarie for the tyme wherin Prophetes in some respecte ordinary they were But if you meane Prophets in respecte of their dexteritie and readinesse in expounding the Scriptures suche as Barnabas was and Simon Lucius Act. 13. c. and Saule Likewyse suche as Iudas and Silas Actes 15. and suche as the Apostle Act. 15. S. Paule speaketh of 1. Corinth 14. I sée no cause why eyther the calling 1. Cor. 14. should be extraordinary or the â—ffice and gifte temporall excepte you haue a libertie to make temporall and perpetuall ordinarie and extraordinarie what you please But seeing you woulde haue all thinges proued by Scripture I pray you proue this that you haue sayde eyther of the Aposâ—les Euangelisâ—s or Prophetes by the Scripture séeing you teache that of them which seemeth to be contrary vnto the Scripture Chap. 1. the. 4. Diuision T. C. Pag. 43. Sect 2. The ordinarie and continuall functions of the Churche are also deuided into two partes for eyther they are they that gouerne or take charge of the whole Churche as are those which are called Elders or they which take charge of one parte of the Churche whiche is the poore of euery Churche as are those which are called Deacons Those agayne that be called Presbyteri which we tearme Elders of the Churche and haue to doe with the whole Churche are eyther those whiche teache and preache the worde of God and gouerne too or else whiche gouerne onely and do not teache or preache Of the first kinde are Pastors and Doctors Or the second are those which are called by the common name of Elders or auncientes Of all this ordinarie function I shall haue occasion to speake and of euery one shall appeare that which I haue sayde before that they are no vncertayne and vndefinite ministeries but suche as are limitted vnto a certayne Churche and congregation And first of all for the Pastor or Bishop whiche is heere mentioned whiche name soéuer we consider of them they doe foorthwith assoone as they are once eyther spoken or thought of imply and inferre a certayne and definite châ—rge beeing as the Logitians terme them actuall relatiues For what shepheard can there be vnlesse he haue a flocke and howe can he be a watcheman vnlesse he haue some citie to looke vnto Or howe can a man be a master vnlesse he haue a seruaunt or a father vnlesse he haue a childe Nowe if you will saye that they haue a charge and they haue flocks and cities to attende and watche vpon for a whole shire or prouince or realme are their flockes and their Cities and their charges Io. Whitgifte This diuision also is of your owne inuenting neyther haue you any mention of Seniors as you call them or of Deacons in that fourth Chapter to the Ephesi whiche you would haue to be so perfecte a rulè of ecclesiasticall functions As for Pastors and Doctors you knowe that diuers bothe auncient and late writers as namely Hierome Augustine Chrysostome Musculus and Bucer c. do confounde them and the reason that Hieroine vseth can not be well denyed because the Apostle sayth not as he dyd before of the other alios Pastores alios Doctores some Pastors Eph. 4. and other some Doctors but he ioyneth them togither and sayth alios Pastores Doctores some Pastors and Doctors M reouer I sée not howe you can iustifie your diuision of Seniors by the worde of God as I shall further declare in that place where Tract 17. you more largely speake of them In the meane time I sée no reason why your vnpreaching and vnministring Seniors shoulde haue any perpetuitie in the Churche more than Apostles for the cause that I haue before alleadged neyther haue you yet proued that the Deacons office is onely to prouide for the poore you haue examples to the contrarie as I haue declared in my Answere To be shorte I vnderstande not howe you can make Doctors gouernours of any seuerall parishes and Churches except you will make them Pastors But bicause you onely speake héere and proue nothing I will differre a further answere vnti l I heare more sounde argumentes You saye a shepheard can not be vnlesse he haue a flocke c. all which is true but he is also a shepheard that hath mo flockes and he is a shepheard that hathe a generall care and ouersight of many shepheards and many flockes For he that hathe many flockes and many shepheards may haue one master shepheard to sée that all the rest doe their duties and that the shéepe be kepte in good order And thoughe euery seuerall Citie haue seuerall watchemen whiche watche by course yet maye there be one that hathe an especiall care ouer all and is appoynted to see the rest do their duties So one master maye haue many seruauntes one father many children Wherefore if you vse this reason to improue the office of a Bishop it lacketh mighte if to proue that a Pastour muste haue a flocke no man dothe denie it but if to conclude that no man maye preache vnlesse he haue a certayne flocke there is no sequele at all in it for first you muste proue that the onely office of a Pastor is nowe remayning in the Churche and that no man can be minister of the words and Sacraments except he be a Pastor of some certayne flocke for that doe I constantly denie Chapter 1. the. 5. Diuision T. C. Pag. 43. Sect. 3. First of all in your reading ministers that is vntrue for they goe not to eade in all Churches but arrie till they be hyred in one And therfore when the Bishop hath layde his hande of Petitio principij them â–ª they are no more Ministers than before his hande came vpon them bicause they haue no charges and therefore the patrone or person that hireth them to reade and setteth them a worke are their Bishops and make them ministers and not the Bishop of the Diocesse Io. Whitgifte These be but words grounded vpon this false principle that none oug te to be admitted into the ministerie but suche as haue a certayne cure and charge which you are neuer able to proue eyther by Scripture or good reason but the contrarie is manyfest by bothe Chapter 1. the. 6. Diuision T. C. Pag. 43. Sect. 4. Secondarily for those that preache to haue a whole Diocesse or Prouince or Realme to be their flocke or Citie to attende vpon is contrarie to the pollicie or good husbandrie of all those that woulde eyther haue their Citie safe or their flockes sounde For who are they whyche woulde appoynte one for the watche of a thousande townes or cities when as all they whiche loue their safetie woulde rather haue for euery citie many watchemen
euery congregation so that if the Citie or Towne be great and the professours of the Gospell in it be more than will make conueniently a congregation then there muste bee by the rule of God (*) You haue no worde of God for this and the practise of the primitiue Churche doth cōfute it as it is proued Tract 8. more Pastours and Bishops Wherevpon it appeareth that bothe no Pastour or Bishoppe oughte to bee made without there be a flocke as it were a voyde place for him and that a flocke is not a Realme or Prouince or Diocesse as we now call a Diocesse but so many as may conueniently meete in one assemblie or congregation And that this is the meaning of Sainct Paule it appeareth by the practise of the Churches from tyme to tyme whiche haue bothe decreed agaynst and founde faulte wyth these wandering and rouyng ministeries Io. Whitgifte It is manyfest that S. Paule willed Titus to appoynte presbyteros for that Tit. 1. worde he vseth in euery Citie for so dothe he also saye But what can you heereof conclude What sequele is there in this argument Sainct Paule willed Timothie to appoynt Ministers in euery Citie Ergo there muste be none admitted to the ministerie of the worde but suche as haue some certayne cure or therefore one man maye not haue the ouersighte and direction of many cures In déede if S. Paule had sayde to Titus thou shalte appoynte no Ministers of the worde or Seniors but to a certayne cure or admitte none to preache the Gospell except he haue some one place certenly appoynted vnto him then your reason had bin something But now it hath no shew of any argument The place Act. 14. tendeth to the same purpose neyther is there one worde there to proue that suche maye not preache the worde as haue no certayne charge committed vnto them but the contrarie rather for Paule and Barnabas thoughe they dyd appoynte in euery Churche Ministers yet dyd they preache themselues also And I heare no reason yet why bothe these maye not be true that euery Churche shoulde haue a Pastour and yet that some may be admitted to preache the worde that haue no seuerall churches This I am sure was vsuall in the Apostles time and it is nowe most profitable neither is there one title in the whole scripture against it And you your selfe haue bin in that case euer since you were preacher and remayne so still for any thing that I knowe Chap. 1. the. 8. Diuision T. C. Pag. 44. Sect. 1. The great Councell of Calcedon decreed that no Eider or Deacon or any other in the ecclesiasticall Cap. 6. act 1 order shoulde be ordeyned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is losely and as it were let goe at randon whither he himselfe sted whiche he also interpreteth by and by more playnely when he addeth The Councell of Calcedon maymed that he shoulde not be ordeyned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is vnlesse it be specially in a congregation of some citie or towne And in the Councell of Urban as Gratian reporteth distinction 70. it was decreed that the ordination that was made without any title shoulde be voyde and what that meaneth is shewed by and by when it is sayde and in what Church any is intitled there let him always remayne And this is also (*) You stil stum ble vpon Hierome in steade of Musculus S. Hierome his Ad Nepoti ▪ complaynt in that men were ordeyned vnto the ministerie when they were chosen by no Churche and so wente rounde about hauing no certayne place And therefore this that none oughte to preache vnlesse he haue some pastorall charge oughte not to haue beene so straunge a thing vnto you as you make it if eyther the Scriptures or the Councels or the auncient Fathers hadde beene so well knowne vnto you as eyther your name requireth or you take vpon you whyche dare so boldely pronounce that there can be shewed no texte of Scripture for the matter Io. Whitgifte You are notable in falsifying and coruptly alleaging of the authorities of Fathers and Councels and a singular grace you haue bothe in ascribing that vnto them whiche they haue not and in otherwyse reporting that which they haue as you doe nowe in this place deale with the Councell of Calcedon for you say that Councell decreed that no Elder or Deacon c. shoulde bee ordeyned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is losely c. And you adde that he interpreteth this more playnely when he addeth that he shoulde not be ordeyned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is vnlesse it be speciallye in a congregation of some citie or towne But you haue craftily lefte out that which maketh agaynst you and playnely openeth the meaning of the Councel which is this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. The whole Canon is this Nullum absolutè ordinari debere presbyterum aut Diaconum ńec quemlibet in gradu ecclesiastico nisi specialiter in ecclesia ciuitatis aut pagi aut in martyrio aut monasterio qui ordinandus est pronuncietur Qui verò absolutè ordinantur ▪ decreuit Sancta synodus Con. Cbalced ▪ cap. 6. act 15 ▪ irritam haberi uiusmodi manus impositionem nusquà m posse ministrare ad ordinantis ignominiam Wherby it is plaine that the meaning of the Councell is to haue none admitted into any Ecclesiasticall degrée except he haue some thing to liue vpon and not that he must of necessitie haue some cure for then would not the councell haue sayd aut in martyrio aut monasterio for these be no pastorall charges neither yet woulde it haue added aut Diaconum aut quemlibet in gradu ecclesiastico Deacons or any other in ecclesiastical degree bicause euery one admitted in aliquem gradum ecclesiasticum into any ecclesiasticall degree is not admitted to a cure Wherefore the glosse in Gratian doth well interpret the meaning of this Canon when it saith that nonc is to be ordeined sine titulo Dist. 70. 〈◊〉 without a title ne dicatur mendicat in plateis infoelix clerious least it be saide an vnhappie clerke beggeth in the streates and further addeth thus colligitur etiam bic ex eo quod dicit siue possessionis argumentum quod si quis habet patrimonium sufficiens ordinari potest sine titulo an argument may also here be gathered in that it sayth or of possession that if any haue sufficient patrimonie he may be ordeyned without a title But these words siue in martyrio siue in monasterio do manifestly declare that the Councell would haue none admitted to any Ecclesiasticall function without some stay of liuing either of some benefice Monasterie Colledge Chappell his owne possessions or such like as the practise of the Church vnder the Pope is at this day And yet if any man should say that out o this Canon there can be nothing gathered but onely this in what places those that are called to
wordes of Christ receyue the holy Ghost vvhose sinnes so euer ye remitte they are remitted ▪ c. he dothe shewe the principall duetie of a Minister and assureth hym of the assistance of Gods holy spirite if he labour in the same accordinglye You call them his new creatures these be but words of s urrilitie to be hissed at not to be answered T. C. Page 44. Sect. vlt. To say that the Byshop may as well say receiue the holy ghost as to say the wordes vsed in the Supper or to say that the sinnes of those which do beleeue are forgiuen is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as farre as Yorke and London For there are commaundementes to the Ministers to doe that which they doe and heere is none and there the Minister doth not commaunde that the bread be the bodie of Christ but he sayth that it is Neither doth he commaunde that sinnes should be forgiuen but pronounceth in the behalfe of God that they are forgiuen It is not lawfull also that he with the congregation should make a prayer for the assistance or encrease of God his giftes vpon him that is ordeined but to commaund that he should receiue it is meerely vnlawfull For these wordes receiue the holy ghost are the imperatiue mode and doe expressely signifie a commaundement And so the Bishop may as wel say to the sea when it rageth and elleth peace be quiet as to say receiue the holy Ghost And if you thinke it so good reason to vse this in the making of ministers bicause you vse the words of our Sauiour Christ why may not you as well blow vpon them as he did For seyng that our sauiour Christ confirmed his word there with a Sacrament or outwarde signe and you thinke you must therefore do it bicause he did it you are muche to blame to leaue out the outward signe or Sacrament of breath whereby the faithe of him that is ordeined might be the more assured of such giftes and graces as are requisite in his function I heape not vp here the iudgement of writers you knowe I thinke it might easily be done if I liked to follow that waye Io. Whitgifte Christ vsed these wordes this is my bodye in the celebration of his Supper but there is no speciall commaundement that the Minister should ▪ vse the same and yet must he vse them b cause Christ vsed them euen so when Christ did ordeine his Apostles Ministers of the Gospell Io. 20. he sayd vnto them ▪ receiue the holy G ost c. which words bicause they containe the principall duetie of a Minister and do signifie that God doth poure his spirit vpon those whom he calleth to that function are most aptly also vsed of the Bishop who is Gods instrument in that businesse in the ordeyning of Ministers S. Paule speaking to Timothie 1. Tim. 4. saythe Neglecte 1. Tim. 4. not the gifte that is in thee whiche was giuen vnto thee by prophecie with the laying on of the handes of the eldership In whiche wordes the Apostle signifieth that God dothe bestowe his giftes and spirite vpon suche as be called to the ministerie of the worde whereof imposition of handes is a token or rather a confirmation and therfore sayth M. Caluine that it was not a vayne ceremonie bicause God dyd fulfill with hys Cal. 1. Tim. 4. spirite that consecration which men dyd signifie by imposition of handes And surely as that is no vayne ceremonie though it be done by men so these be no vayne words though they be spoken by men Neither dothe the Bishop speake them as thoughe he had authoritie to giue the holy Ghost but he speaketh them as the words of Christ vsed in the like action who as I sayde before dothe moste certaynly giue his holy spirite to those whom he calleth to the ministerie And surely if any patterne eyther in calling or ordeyning of ministers is to be followed this of Christ is to be followed especially and it is not vnlike but that the Apostles when they layde on their hands vsed the same words bicause as I haue sayde laying on of handes is a signe or rather a confirmation of the same That which you speake of commaunding is a méere cauill you knowe in your conscience that there is nothing lesse ment To recite the wordes of Christ in the name of Christ in the selfe same maner that Christ dyd speake them is as lawful in this action as it is in the Supper for the bread is not the ministers body but the sacramente of Christ his body and yet he sayth Take and eate this is my body So in reciting Gods commandements we say Thou shalt haue no other Gods but me and yet we meane not that we are their Gods but we speake the words of God in his person and in the selfe same maner forme that he hath lefte them vnto vs. But it is nowe no maruayle thoughe suche as wyckedly forsake their calling doe also impiously deride and iest at the manner and forme thereof Christ when he sayde to the sea peace be quiet shewed a myracle to confirme his diuinitie but when he sayde Receyue the holy Ghost c. he dyd institute a ministerie which shoulde be vsed by man and therefore there is no similitude betwixt these two Christ when he breathed vpon them dyd an action proper vnto him selfe for he thereby signified that he had authoritie to giue vnto them his holy spirite and that the same spirite dyd not only procéede from the father but from him selfe also when he spake these wordes he made a perpetuall promise that all suche should receyue his spirite as from time to time were by him called to the office of the ministerie I thinke you woulde surely vse some authoritie of wryters héere as you doe in other places if you had any but I suppose you haue not one that misliketh this forme as it is vsed in this Churche of Englande I knowe they doe iustly condemne the foolishe imitation of the Papistes who followe Christ in breathing But that there is any great misliking of these words Receyue the holy Ghost except only when they speake of the papisticall abusing of them I can not perceyue Of Apostles Euangelistes and Prophets Chap. 3. the. 1. Diuision The Admonition The ninth Then euery pastor (x) Act. 0. 8. Eph. 4. 11. Titus 1. 5. 1. Pet. 5. 1. had his flocke Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 50. Sect. 2. To proue this you alleage the. 20. of the Acts the. 4. to the Ephe. the first to Titus the. 5. chapter of the. 1. of Peter which places declare that there were Pastors whiche had flockes but they proue not that euery Pastor had a flocke neuerthelesse howe so euer you proue it true it is that if he be a Pastor he must haue a certain flock for therein doth a Pastor differ from the rest of the degrees of ministers in Christes Churche mentioned in the fourth chapter to the Ephes But you
as some thinke Barnabas whiche are seuered from all other ministers of the Gospell by these notes First that they were immediatly called of God as S. Paule to the Galathians proueth him Gal. 1. selfe to be an Apostle bycause he was not appoynted by men Then that they sawe Christe whiche argument Saincte Paule vseth in the. 9. 1. Cor. Am I not an Apostle haue I not seene Christe Thirdly that these had the field of the whole world to tyll whereas other are restrained more particularly as to a certaine plough lande wherin they should occupie themselues wherevpon it followeth that as we conclude against the Pope truly that he can be no successour of the Apostles not only bicause he neyther teacheth nor doth as they did but bicause the Apostles haue no successours neyther any can succeede into the office of an Apostle so may we lykewyse conclude against those that woulde haue the Apostles now a dayes that there can be none bycause there is none vnto whome all these three notes doe agree as that he is both sent of God immediately or that he hath seene Christe or that he is sent into all the worlde Io. Whitgifte M. Caluine vpon the sixtéenth to the Romaines sayeth that this woorde Apostle in proper and vsuall signification dothe onely comprehende that firste order whyche Chryste in the beginning did appoynt in his twelue disciples whiche is directly con trarie to your saying I graunt that in suche respectes as you now put downe there bée no Apostles although Matthias was not immediatly called by God as it appeareth Actes 1. and you before haue confessed neyther can you proue by the Scripture that Barnabas was so called but the contrarie rather dothe appeare in the. 11. of the Actes and yet he was an Apostle Sainct Paule in the firste to the Corinth 9. doth not saye that he sawe Christe to proue that he was an Apostle but to declare that he was in that respect nothing inferiour to the reste of the Apostles I haue before declared in what sense I say that ther be Apostles in the church neyther is it a matter so strange séeing that M. Caluine sayeth as muche in the place before recited Quanquam non nego quin Apostolos postea quoque vel saltem eorum loco Euangelistas interdùm excitarit Deus vt Cal. in 16. Ro. instit cap. 8. nostro tempore factum est Although I doe not denye but that God hath afterwardes also stirred vp Apostles or at the least Euangelists in steade of them as it is doone in oure dayes Chap. 3. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Page 45. Sect. 5. And although some Ecclesiasticall wryters doe call sometymes good ministers successors of the Apostles yet that is to be vnderstanded bicause they propounde the same doctrine that they did not bycause they succeeded into the same kind of function which they could not do S. Paule doth vse this word sometimes in his proper and natiue signification for him that is publikely sent from any to other as when he speaketh of the brethren that were ioyned with Titus whiche were sent by the Churches with reliefe to the poore Church in Ierusalem and Inry and where he calleth Epaphroditus an Apostle But that is with addition and not simply as in the first place he calleth the brethren the Apostles of the Churches that is not the Apostles of all Churches or sente to all 2. Cor. 8. Churches but the Apostles which certayne Churches sent with the reliefe to other certaine churches and Epaphroditus he calleth not an Apostle simply but the Apostle of the Philippians that Philip. 2. is which the Philippians sent with reliefe to Paule being in prison at Rome as it appeareth in the same epistle Io. Whitgifte The writers of y e Magdelb historie cal Epaphroditus an Apostle in the same sense Epaphroditus an Apost that they cal Paule and the rest of the Apostles M. Caluine thinketh the name of an Cent. 1. lib. 2. cap. 7. Apostle to be taken in that place generally pro quolibet Euangelista for any preacher of the gospell Ambrose saith erat eorum Apostolus à Paulo factus dum illum ad exhortationem Caluin in 2 Philip. eorum mittebat ad eos he was made their Apostle of Paule when as at their request he sente him vnto them And Theodoret in plaine wordes doth call him an Apostle bycause he Ambrose in Philip. 2. was byshop of the Philippians If these say true as no doubt they do thē is not Epaphroditus called an Apostle only in that signification that you say he was In that he Theo. 1. Tim. 3. Phil. 2. calleth them Apostles with an addition of the Churches not of all Churches he confirmeth my saying for it argueth that there may be Apostles though they haue commission but for one kingdome or prouince only as Epaphroditus was the Apostle of the churches of the Philippians bycause he was sent vnto them to preach Thus doth both Ambrose Chrysostome Theodoret Caluine and others write Chap. 3. the fourth Diuision T. C. Pag. 46. Sect. 1. And as for Andronicus and Iunius whiche are by you recited (*) T. C. 〈◊〉 off a direct answer with this belike belike to proue that we may haue more Apostles bycause it is said of S. Paule that they were famous and notable amōgst the Rom. 16. Apostles it cannot be proued by any thing I see there whether they had any function ecclesiasticall or no. For S. Paule calleth them his kinsfolks and fellowe prisoners and dothe not saye that they were hys fellowe labourers and a man maye be well notable and famouse amongst the Apostles and well knowne vnto them whiche is no Apostle And if the Apostles woulde haue had this order of the Apostles to continue in the Churche there is no doubt but that they would haue chosen one into Iames his roome when he was slayn as they did when they supplyed the place of Iudas by choosing Matth s and so euer as they had dyed the other would haue put other in their places So it appeareth that this function of the Apostles is ceased Io. Whitgifte The foresayd authors of the storie called (a) Cent. 1. lib. 2. cap. 7. Magdelburgica do also recken these two Andronicus Iunia Apostles among the Apostles euen as they do Paule Barnabas (b) Caluine in 16. Rom. M. Caluin vpon that place to the Romaines sayth that the name of an Apostle there doth extende to all those whiche teache not one Churche onely but many c. and séemeth to accompte Andronicus and Iunius such (c) Beza in 16. Rom. M. Beza in the same place writeth thus Inter Apostolos c. i quorum nomen inter Apostolos viget vel qui ipsi sunt insignes Apostoli ic enim accipitur interdum oc nomen in genere pro bis qui Christi nomine funguntur legatione That is whose name is famous among the
Scripture I know not to what purpose you quote the. 7. to the Hebrues except it be for this Hebr. 7. texte The lesse is blessed of the greater in whiche place blessing is not taken for ordeyning or consecrating for Melchisedech did no suche thyng to Abraham But it is there taken as it is Numer 6. where the Priestes are commaunded to blesse the Numer 6. people and therefore serueth not your turne for any thing here spoken I vnderstand not to what ende you quote Eusebius in his third booke and. 27. Chapter Uaine quotation For there is not in that place one woorde spoken of an Euangelist or any part of his office Chap. 3. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Page 46. Sect. 5. Agayne if there be in euery Church a Pastor as S. Paule cōmaundeth what should the Euangelists do for either that pastor doth his dutie and then the Euangelist is superfluous or if he do it not then he is no lawfull pastor and so ought he to be put out and an other to be put in his steade And where the pastor doing his dutie can not suffice there the Scripture hath giuen him an ayde of the Doctour which for bicause his office consisteth in teaching doctrine to this end that the Pastor myght not be driuen to spende so much tyme in propounding the doctrine but myghte haue the more tyme to employ in exhorting and dehorting and applying of the doctrine to the tymes and places and persons it is manyfest that he also is tyed to a certaine Church For how coulde he be an ayde vnto the pastor to whose helpe he is giuen vnlesse he were in the same church where the pastor is And that the Euangelistes office hath bene to taken as a function that endured Lib. 5. cap. 10. but for a tyme it may appeare first by that which Eusebius writeth speaking of Pantenus for sayth he there were vntill that tyme Euangelistes c. which was aboute the yeare of our Lord. 162. Wherby he giueth to vnderstand that aboute that tyme they ceased and that in his tyme there was none when notwithstanding there were Bishops or Pastors and Elders Li. 1. offic 1. and Deacons And Ambrose sayth that there be no Apostles but those whiche Christe himselfe did appoynt wherby it appeareth that of all the Ecclesiasticall functions that preach the woorde there are but the Pastor and Doctor only lefte vnto vs and the same also restrayned to particular charges Io. Whitgifte But what if there be not in euery Church suche a Pastor neyther can be is the Euangelist then necessarie you must of necessitie confesse that for the people muste not be depriued of the worde when by suche meanes they may haue it Howebeit though euery Churche had his Pastour and euerye pastour dyd his duetie yet might preaching by other doe good as well for the confirmation of the Doctrine and the more frequent preaching as also for that it pleaseth God sometymes to woorke that by one that he dothe not by an other But what Scripture haue you to proue that the Doctor is added to the Pastour as an ayde or that the Doctor is tyed to a certaine place you haue no licence to coyne newe Scriptures and in the olde I am sure you can not fynde it As for youre bare woorde it is but a verye bare proofe I tolde you before that Hierome Augustine Chrysostome Musculus and dyuerse other vppon good reason confounde Pastour and Doctor and thynke them to bée but diuerse names of one office And whereas you saye that the Doctours office consisteth in teaching doctrine to this ende that the Pastour myghte not be dryuen to spende so muche tyme in propoundyng the doctrine c. I woulde gladly knowe whence you learne that Ambrose sayeth they be suche as see good rule kepte in the Churche or suche as Ambrose in 4. Eph. teache children Eusebius woordes speaking of Pantenus be these There were as yet at that tyme manie Euangelistes whyche were prest and readie to this that they myght wyth a godlie zeale accordyng to the Apostles example promote and plante the woorde of God Whyche proue that there were then Euangelistes good store whyche were zealous c. But there is no mention made of any ceassing of their office it rather proueth a continuance of the same béeing so long after the Apostles tyme. There is nowe no suche Euangelistes as goe from kyngdome to kyngdome or thoroughe the Lib. 5. cap. 9. worlde bycause the miraculous gifte of tongues is nowe ceased Neyther is anye nowe lawfully called to any suche Ecclesiasticall function but by man and therfore they must goe no further than his authoritie extendeth that hath called them Ambrose sayeth truly if he should say that there are no Apostles but such as Christ himselfe appointed if we speake proprely and vsually as I haue before declared but that is no hinderance to any thing y t I haue affirmed And yet surely y e words of Ambrose sound nothing that way for Ambrose abasing and disabling himselfe saith thus Non igitur mihi apostolorum gloriam vendico quis enim boc nisi quos ipse filius elegit dei c. I therefore challenge not to my selfe the glory of the Apostles for who can do this but they whome the sonne of God did choose And what can you hereof conclude He saith afterwards also that i e doth not chalenge to himselfe the circumspection of Pastors yet was he then a Byshop as it is in that place euident Gladly would you haue some authoritie for your purpose if you could tell where to find it Of the residence of the Pastor Tract 5. Chap. 1. the first Diuision T. C. Page 46. Sect. 6. Now that I haue proued that there are no Euangelists Prophets or Apostles and that the ministeries of the word which remayne are limited vnto certayne places I will take that whiche you graunt that is that the Pastor or Byshop ought to haue a speciall flocke And demand of you wherefore he should haue it Is it not to attend vpon it And can he attend vpon it vnlesse he be resident and abiding vpon it But he cannot be abiding vpon it if he go from place to place to preach where he thinketh necessarie Therefore being Pastor or Byshop of a congregation allotted vnto A digression from the matter to the person him he may not go from place to place to preach where he thinketh good much lesse to haue a mastership of a colledge in one corner of the land a Deanry in another and a Prebend in the thirde and so be absent from his pastorall charge in such places where eyther he preacheth not or needeth not to preach those places being otherwise furnished without him For then how is this difference kept betweene the Pastor and other ministers that the one is tyed to a place and the other is not For if you say that it is in that he shall preach more at his
flocke than at other places I answere that the Euangelists and Apostles did carrie longer in one place than in another and taught some congregations yeares whē they did not othersome moneths And therfore they say nothing which alleadge for the nonresidence of Pastors that S. Paule called Timothie and Titus from Ephesus and Crete for first they were Euangelists and no Pastors then they went not of their owne heads but called of the Apostle which was a chiefe gouernoure of the Church And thirdly they went not but hauing other sufficient put in their place as it appeareth in their seuerell epistles so that if that place make any thing it maketh not to proue the non residencie but rather whether a minister may be translated from one Church to another Io. Whitgifte Your reader if he iudge indifferently cannot but acknowledge this that you so cōfidently speake of proores to be but a vaine bragge and nothing so There is no man that denieth but that a Pastor ought so to attend vpō his slocke How a Pastor ought to be rendent as he may be well able to do his duetie towards the same and with a good conscience answer his doings before the chiefe Pastor to whome he shall giue his accompte In the meane time if he be godly if he preach among them as often as he is perswaded to be conuenient if he haue a care ouer them that they be not destitute of that whiche is necessarie if he haue such as are honest learned and diligent to supply his absence he may be bolde to say to his vnlawfull iudges tu quis es qui iudicas alienum seruum proprio Rom. 14. domino stat aut cadit VVho art thou which condemnest another mans seruant he standeth or falleth to his owne Master ▪ Whether a Pastor hauing a flocke may also preach out of his owne charge is another question And although it be by you denyed yet bycause your words without proofe weigh not much I will for the auoiding of confusion speake nothing thereof in this place but this only that as the opinion is strange so is it most vntrue and not to be iustifyed eyther by Scripture aunciente fathers or reasons But oh T C. who séeth not the mark you shoote at who perceyueth not how you Why T. C. slideth from the matter to the person slide from the matter to the person To what ende do you here recite a mastership of a colledge a Deanrie ▪ a Prebend but that your meaning is to note some one particular man whome bycause he hath withstoode your erroneous and contentious doctrine hath not exalted you as it is wel knowne you haue desired hath executed those lawes vpon you whiche for the auoyding of manifest and wilfull periurie you oughte to The oth of the fellowes of Tri. Col. in Cam. haue executed of your selfe you séeke by all meanes possible to deface Is this conscience ▪ Is this praebe e te beneuolum magistro non solùm dum in eo vixeris sed etiam postea pro virill c. The Lord forgiue you and giue you grace to know your selfe If he that hath this mastership Deanry Prebend benefice neglect his duetie in any one of them if he do not that that both Gods lawes and mans lawes require of him if be be a loyterer if he séeke his ease if he be not able to giue an accompt of his doings when he shall therevnto be called then let him susteyne both the shame and the blame also The Pastor is not so tyed to any place that he may not from the same be bodily The Pastor may be absent vpon occasion absent vpon occastō as I am ready to proue by sufficient both reason and authoritie when I shall be vrged there vnto The examples of the Euangelists and of the Apostles do verifie the same for they fully instructed the churches wherein they preached in all things necessary to saluation though they did not cōtinually remayne with them but now and then visit them And therefore the Pastors may so do in like manner Touching Timothie and Titus whome you so oft without any kind of proofe denie Timothie being a Pastor was absent frō Ephesus to be Pastors I haue spoken else where at large notwithstanding bycause your too too bolde asseuerations may appeare what they are I will in a few words euen in this place declare bothe that Timothie and Titus were Pastors and that their examples do euidently proue that a Pastor may be vpon occasions absent from hys flocke And for this time I will be content with that only that M. Caluine writeth touching In y e treatise of Archbyshops c. the same matter referring the reader for further proofe to that that I haue in more ample manner written of the same M. Caluine 1. Ti. 1. doth call Timothie Pastor of the Church of Ephesus And in the. 1. Ti. 4. expounding these words ne donum quod Tract 8. Caluine in te est c. he saith that the holy ghost had by oracle appointed Timothie to be receyued into the order of Pastors And. 2. Ti. 4. that he did excell vulgare and common Pastors meaning that he was an excellent Pastor endued with more singular and notable gifts and of greater authoritie than the common sort of Pastors be And in the same Chapter speaking of Paules sending for Timothie from Ephesus to Rome he sayth that there was no small cause why Paule sent for Timothie from that Churche whiche he ruled and gouerned and that so farre off heereby we may gather saith he how profitable conference is with such men for it might be profitable to all Churches whiche Timothie might learne in a small time so that the absence of halfe a yeare or of one whole yeare is nothing in comparison of the commoditie that commeth thereby Whereby it is manifest that Caluine both tooke him to be a Pastor and also excuseth his absence So that the example of Timothie maketh much for the pnrpose The like may be said of Titus and of sundry other in the scriptures Now if the Apostle being a chiefe gouernoure of the Church might call Timothie and Titus so farre from their cures and that for no great nor yet common matters of the Churche but for his owne priuate businesse as it appeareth 2. Tim. 4. then I trust you will also thinke it lawfull that suche as be rulers and gouernours of the Church may do the like There is no man that writeth so exactly of Non residence but Lawfull causes of the pastors absence he confesseth certaine necessary causes of absence as if it be for the commoditie of the Church whereof he is Pastor or for the commoditie of the whole church of that kingdome or for the commoditie of other particular churches in the same or for necessitie or vpon commaundement of higher authoritie in all these and such like cases the absence of a Pastor is lawfull and
of Papistrie as your manner is and for my part I thinke it to be the part of all dutifull subi cts to kéepe lawes and orders appoynted and to sée other kéepe them also if they be therevnto called Surely he that is a Papist indéede cannot wish well to hir 〈◊〉 but if he communicate with vs in the sacraments heare the word preached and come to our Churches I will thinke and hope the best of him But if he refuse so to do as there be di ers such so long as he so continueth I must count him an enemie to religion to the Churche and to the Prince be he Papist Anabaptist or whatsoeuer For he that in hart and in déede misliketh the religiō cannot like wel of such as mainteine the same Chap. 1. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Page 53. Sect. 1. There are also numbers of those which haue all Antichristianitie in such detestation that they cannot abide the least scrappe of it and when they see the ministers weare them they are greeued in their harts and they beginne somewhat to feare least this communicating with the Papists in apparell should make some way to those which vse them the easier to admitte other things when they should be likewise commaunded And these brethrens minds are not to be lightly greeued and the ministers if they thinke to profite them must cut away all occasion whereby they may haue an euill opinion of them Io. Whitgifte M. Caluine in his booke against the Anabaptists after he had spoken some thing against The puritie which can abide no imper fection is diuelish the Puritanes and Donatists hath this saying worthy to be noted Here therfore we may be admonished that when as vnder the pretence of the study of perfection we can tolerate no imperfection eyther in the body or in the members of the Church that then the Deuill dothe make vs swell with pride and dothe seduce vs by hypocrisie that he might prouoke vs to forsake the flocke of Christ knowing assuredly that he dothe obteyne the victory when he draweth vs from the same For seeinge yther remission of sinnes or health is in no other place although we outwardly beare the countenance of an Angelicall ☞ conuersation yet if we do with such boldnesse separate ourselues from the Christian felowship we are become Deuils If thys be to be feared in such as shew thys prepostorous zeale agaynste that whiche is blameworthy what shall we thinke of those that vnder the pretence of zeale deface the minister and the word that he preacheth for doing that which is lawfull and the whiche of duetie he ought to do If the minister shoulde applie himselfe to please the people and suche especially of whome you séeme to speake in this place his greatest study had néede to be how to transforme himselfe dayly into a new shape But most certaine it is that you study to much to please the people And that is the occasion of so many nouelties whereby they are most commonly delighted est natura hominis nouitatis auida Chap. 1. the eight Diuision T. C. Page 53. Sect. 2. Seing that therefore this kind of Ceremonies in apparell harden the harts of the Papistes and cause them to be the stiffer in thir poperie hinder the weake from profyting in the knowledge of the Gospell greeue the minds of the godly are occasion of an euill opinion vnto them of their ministers we thinke that these ceremonies are to be remoued as not only not profitable which they ought to be but hurtfull if not to the ministers themselues that vse them yet to their people to whome they are commaunded by God to haue regard vnto in these thinges that are indifferent in their owne natures Now I will come to that which you set downe Io. Whitgifte Seing that not one word of that is true and if it were yet the erroure and false perswasion of the minde rather to be refourmed than relented vnto I sée no cause why thys kind of apparell being commaunded ought not to be vsed except you will leaue to euery man libertie to do what him list or suffer the fansies of some to rule Prince Councell Byshops Church and all That ministers were knowne in times past by distinct apparell ▪ Chap. 2. the. 1. Diuision Admonition The eleuenth In those days knowne a 1. Samuel 9 18. Mat. 26. 48 Mat. 26. 7 by voyce learning and doctrine now they must be discerned from other by popish and antichristian apparell as cappe gowne tippet c. Ansvvere to the Admonition Page 53. Sect. vlt. Pag. 54. Sect. 1. 2. To proue that in those days ministers were knowne by voice learning Uayne and childish all gations and doctrine you cite the ninth of the first of Samuell and the 26. of Mathew In all that ninth Chapter of Samuell there is not one word that maketh for this purpose except you meane this that when Saule asked of Samuell where the Seers house was Samuell answered againe that he was the Seer If this be to be knowen by voice learning and doctrine the ignorantest minister that is may soone be knowne by his voyce learning and doctrine for if you aske him where is such a man he can answer you I am he In the. 26. of Mathew the first place vers 48. is this Novv he that betraied him had giuen them a token saying vvhosoeuer I shall kisse that is he lay holde on him The multitude that came with Iudas knew christ by Iudas kissing of him therfore in those days ministers were knowen by voice learning and doctrine The second place in that Chapter alleadged vers 73. is this They that stoode by said vnto Peter surely thou art also one of them for euen thy speach bevvrayeth thee Peter was suspected by his speach to be a Galilean and therefore one of Christes Apostles Ergo a minister was then knowen by voice learning An argument retorted vpon the aduersary and doctrine You may aswell of that place gather thus Peter preached not Christ thē but denied him Ergo a minister must be knowen by denying of christ Lord God what dare not these mē alledge for their purpose I know that the chiefe tokens whereby a minister ought to be knowen is doctrine and learning but you childishly abuse the scripture and play with the same Now you say ministers must be discerned from other by Popish A minister may be knowen by his apparell and Antichristian apparell as cappe gowne tippet c. Do you thinke that bycause a minister oughte to be knowen by his voyce learning and doctrine therefore he may not be also knowen by hys apparell Iohn the Baptist had peculiar apparell and was knowen by it Christ had distinct apparell from other for his coate had neuer a seame T. C. Pag. 53. Sect. 3. 4. The places alledged by the Admonitiō with others which may be cited howsoeuer you deride them are otwithstanding probable coniēctures (*) They were quoted
4. The place of (a) The place of Theodoret fal fied ▪ Theodoret cited by M. Bullinger maketh mention of a golden Cope and that vsed by Bishops of Hierusalem and solde by Cyrill a good Bishop whereby he declared sufficiently his misliking of suche garments in the ministerie of the Sacraments In the place the whiche he citeth out of Socrates there is one Sycinius an Nouatian Bishop is sayde to haue worne whyte apparell and therefore is reprehended as for too muche exquisitenesse and finenesse of apparell and the Bishop of Durisine in a letter he wrote alleadgeth the same place agaynst the surplice A man would hardly beleeue that master Bullinger should vse these places to proue a distinction of apparel amongst the Ministers We are not ignorant but that a cloake hath beene vsed of the Ministers in their seruice but that was no seuerall apparell of the Ministers but common to all Christians which with chaunge of their religion chaunged also their apparell as appeareth manifestly in Tertullian de Pailio As for the Petalum that S. Iohn ware I see not howe it can be proued to be like a Bishops iter For the cappe that S. Cyprian gaue the executioner argueth rather that it was the common apparell whiche was customably worne for else it woulde not haue done him so muche good As for his vpper garment whiche he gaue to his Deacon it was a token of his good wyll which he would leaue with him as the practise hath beene seene with vs and proueth nothing that it was any seuerall apparell As for the whytelinnen garment whiche he suffered in it can not seeme straunge vnto vs which haue seene the holy martyrs of the Lorde executed in Smithfielde and other places And it is not to be thoughte that S. Cyprian had so small iudgement that liuing in the tyme of persecution he would by wearing of some notable apparell from the rest as it were betray him selfe into the handes of his ennemies vnlesse all the Christians had done so too for clearer and more open profession of their faythe and greater detestation of the contrarie Religion as Tertullian and the Chrystians in hys tyme dyd by the wearing of a Cloake whiche reason maye bee also alleadged of the Petalum of Saincte Iohn Hom. 6. ad pop Antioch It is true Chrysostome maketh mention of a white garment but not in commendation of it but rather to the contrarie For hee sheweth that the dignitie of their ministerie their sa tie and crowne was in taking heede that none vnmeete were admitted to the Lordes supper not in going about the Churche with a whyte garment And it is easily to be seene by * Scripture fondly alleaged Salomon Eccle. 9. in his Ecclesiastes that to weare a whyte garment was greatly esteemed in the East partes and was ordinarie to those that were in any estimation as the wearing of blacke with vs and therefore was no seuerall apparell for the ministers or for to execute their ministerie in Io. Whitgifte The wordes of Theodoret be these But the tale which they had raysed of Cyrillus T eod lib. 2. cap. 7. did chiefly displease the * 〈◊〉 ▪ Emperour For wheras the most worthy king Constantine had for the honour of the Churche of Hierusalem giuen vnto Macarius Bishop in the same citie a holy garment precious and wrought with golde which he should weare when he ministred the holy Baptisme they reported that Cyrill solde it c. Héere you sée that Theodoret counteth it but a fable that Cyrill should make any suche sale and those that say he solde it declare that it was not for any disalowing of the vesture but for Sozo lib. cap. 25. necessitie of the poore in the time of famine as Sozo lib. 4. cap. 25. testifieth You deale with M. Bullinger as you doe with me that is you peruert his meaning and alleage that out of Socrates that he ment not keepe that in silence which maketh Lib. 6. cap. 〈◊〉 ▪ directly for this purpose Socrates there sheweth howe Sycinius béeing a Nouatian did weare white apparel when he was for the same reproued he answered that it was no where written that Priests shoulde weare blacke apparell and bad them proue by scripture that priests ought to weare blacke apparell Whereby it is playne that ministers in those days did weare black apparel were therby knowne and that Sycinius béeing an heretike refused so to do vsing the same arguments that you do scilicet that it is no where commaunded that Priests should weare suche kinde of vesture Wherfore the story is aptly alleadged by master Bullinger to proue a seuerall kinde of apparell and it insinuateth what manner of men those be that contemne the common order in suche matters and loue to be singular like vnto Sycinius the Nouatian heretike As for S. Iohn his Petalum you heare what these learned men saye who no doubte haue good grounde of their iudgement Neyther woulde Eusebius haue made any mention of it if it had not bin a kinde of apparell whereby S. John was knowne Euseb. lib. 3. cap. 31. The wordes of Eusebius lib. 3. cap. 31. be these Iohn whiche leaned vpon the brest of the Lorde beeing a Priest wore a leafe or thinne plate Whereby it is euident that this apparell was peculiar to S. Iohn in the respecte that he was a Priest That Cyprian his apparell was not vsuall and common for other men to weare it may appeare by this that the names of his apparell be expressed for that whiche he gaue to the executioner is called Birrus that is a thi ne plate and that which he gaue to the Deacon was called Dalmatica a garment with long sléeues as for the white linnen it is not there mentioned as any distinct kinde of apparell The wordes of Chrysostome doe manyfestly declare that then suche kinde of garment was vsed in the administration of the Sacramentes neyther doe his wordes tende any thing at all to the disalowing of it for they be spoken by the way of comparison and negatiues by comparison are not simple negatiues as I tolde you before but by the way of comparison and therefore when Chrysostome sayth that the dignitie of their ministerie c. was in taking heede that none vnmeete were admitted to the Lords supper not in going about the Churche with a white garment he dothe not disallowe going about the Churche in a white garment but he sayth that it is not in comparison of the other so greatly to be regarded If Salomon in that place ment any suche matter yet is it no profe at al for this that T. C. doth 〈◊〉 eage the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fundly 〈◊〉 carelesly you alle e it for there was a great nūber of yeres betwixt Salomon his time and Chrysostomes and all kinde of customes much altered therfore I maruell what you meane to bring in Salomon to proue that the white apparel vsed by ministers of
beeing collected to the setting foorthe of true Religion and good orders in the Churche be read there also as in a moste meete place But I perceyue you are enimies to reading bicause you loue so wel to heare your selues talking I will say no worse T. C. Pag. 60. Sect. 4. You know they allowe studying for sermons and amplifying expounding of the scriptures and why then doe you aske But by this question you would haue your Reader thinke or at the least haue the Authors of the Admonition in suspicion that they lyked not of studie for sermons God make vs more careful of the good name of our brethren than by suche light and vngrounded suspicions nay without any suspicion nay contrarie to that which is dayly seene hard to rayse vp suche slanderous reportes of them But Homilies are smally beholding vnto you which to proue that they may be read in the Churche alleage that Augustine and Chrysostome made sermons in their Churches for that which we call a sermon they called of the Greeke worde an Homilie so that the argument is that Augustine and Chrysostome preached sermons or homilies in their Churches therefore we may reade Homilies in ours But peraduenture you haue some better thing to say for them afterwarde Io. Whitgifte I haue heard some fautors of theirs earnestly reason agaynst studying for sermons and it is not long since it was almoste in playne termes in the Pulpit preached I thinke they studie for their sermons but howe diligently they studie or whether they would séeme to studie or no I knowe not the wordes of the Admonition are very suspicious That whiche I speake of Augustine and Chrysostome aptly serueth for my purpose for althoughe they were Augustines and Chrysostomes sermons yet in that they haue bothe committed them to writing and lefte them to their posteritie it argueth that they thought them to be very profitable for the Church Neyther do I sée any cause why they should rather nowe be thought vnlawfull to be read than they were then to be preached but yet one thing we may note that bothe Augustine and Chrysostome writte their Homilies or sermons and therefore it may be that they did also sometime reade them in the Churche Of Archebishops Metropolitanes Bishops Archedeacons c. Tract 8. The reasons of T. C. answered whereby he goeth about to take away the superfluous loppe as he termeth it of these offyces Chap. 1. the. 1. Diuision Admonition The thirtenth and fourtenth Then (c) 1. Tim. 3. 1. it was paynefull nowe gaynefull (d) Phil. 4. 11. 2. Cor. 6. 4. 8. 10. Then poore and ignominious nowe riche and glorious Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 63. Sect. vlt. It was then as it vseth to be vnder the crosse And it is now as it Scil the ministerie vseth to be when God doth blesse it with peace quietnesse and godly Magistrates And yet surely euen now it is more paynefull than gaynefull more ignomious than riche and glorious and that doe those knowe that beare the heate of the daye But it is the more The ministerie is nowe more payneful than gaineful ▪ paynfull and ignominious for you who ceasse not with rayling and spitefull words in Pulpits and at tables to depraue and backebite your brethren to trouble the whole state with your factions and dayly inuented newe opinions the persecution of the sworde ceasseth but the persecution of the tongue is extreme hotte and we who gayne so muche and be so glorious are molested aswell by you as by the Papist and Atheist and therfore not very glorious T. C. Pag. 61. Sect. 1. A hundreth poundes by yere is taken of some benefice for whiche foure sermons onely are preached and those sometimes by an other If this be more paynefull than gaynefull it is bicause the horseleeche hath two daughters giue giue c. And I can not seehowe they can be more glorious Pro. 30. vnlesse the Palace were turned into a Court and their chayre into a throne There are diuers The twelfth of Mat. straungely applyed places that God hathe blessed with peace where the ministers take more payne and haue Math. 12. lesse gayne and whiche make * lesse noyses when they goe in the streates We haue (a) A vayne bragge thoug it were true amongst vs which haue had Bishoprickes offered and as things vnmeete for a minister of the Gospell haue refuse them ▪ God be praysed the sunne shineth not so hotte in this countrey nowe that you neede to complayne of any great heate and if you feele any heate you haue better shade than Ionas had by his gourde ▪ Io. Whitgifte It may be that he which hath an hundreth poundes by the yere for whiche foure sermons onely are preached c. if there be any suche taketh more paynes for the Churche is more carefull for the state of it suffereth more opprobrious wordes and false slaunders whiche is not the least kinde of persecution for dooing his duetie and kéeping him selfe within the listes of obedience towardes God and his Prince than those doe that glorie moste of persecution and lacke of liuing He that hathe muche is also occasioned to spende muche neyther is his paynes the lesse but more if he be once desirous to doe his duetie And the higher he is in degrée the more subiecte to the enuious backbiter and to the slaunderous tongue Those that haue suche Palaces and make suche noyse when they goe in the streates c. I thinke verily take more paynes and care in and for the Churche of God profite their Countrey more in one moneth than you and all your company do in a whole yere Nay I woulde to God it might be sayde you profited Their pompe and their Palaces are by lawfull authoritie committed vnto them and the true Martyrs of God haue occupied the same or the like before them and yet Martyrs too Who amongst you they be that haue had Bishoprickes offered vnto them I knowe not but if they boast of their deniall and haue suborned you to make it knowne they haue their rewarde It maye be the Bishopricke was to little for them and they looked for some greater and so missed bothe but I will not iudge surely this bragge commeth héere out of place The heate of the tongue and backbiter bothe I and other may greatly complayne of and I hope we get not our liuing by going vp and downe the streates and feasting dayly at other mens tables or as Diogenes did by disdayning and contemning all others Melius est vinum bibere cum ratione quà m aquam cum fastu superbia It is better to drinke wyne with discretion than water with haughtinesse and pride It is also more acceptable to God to dwell in a Palace and liue in abundance with dooing a mans duetie towarde God and his Churche than to lye in prison for disdayne and contempte Godly men may enioy preferment and suche as be arrogant and wilfull
him selfe touching the place Ephe. 4. place to the Ephesians For I haue tolde you that the names of Archbyshops and Archdeacon be names of iurisdiction and gouernmente not of any newe ministerie and therefore suche byshops and ministers as be so called to haue those names not in the respect of the ministerie of the word but of order and pollicie The obiection made of the place of the. 1. to the Corinth Cap. 12. is of more weight than you can be able to remoue with all the might you haue For the Apostle there as well declareth the diuersitie of offices in the Church as he doth in that Epistle to the Ephesians yea and more perfectly to as the place it selfe and the very order that the Apostle kéepeth doth declare your distinction is but in vaine inuented for a shift only against both reason and authoritie against reason bycause the Apostle hauing before made a perfect diuision of gifts in the Church it is not like but now speaking of offices he doth the same Moreouer he doth reherse them in order saying firste Apostles then Prophets thirdly Doctors c. Lastly he reciteth here more offices thā he doth there for here he reciteth eight and there only fiue at the most Authoritie both of learned writers and of the manifest words of the Apostle himselfe is against it Peter Martyr saith that in this place Recenset singulatim quas parteis habeat boc corpus he P. Martyr 〈◊〉 12. 1. Cor rehearseth particularly what parts this body hath meaning the Church And the Apostle himselfe recyting the diuerse parts of the body and functions of the same to declare the diuerse functions that be in the Church doth no doubt make as perfect a diuision here as he doth in any other place so that this shift cannot serue your turne and if it did yet haue you proued nothing by it for you your selfe haue giuen the salution saying That in the place to the Ephesians he only speaketh of suche functions as are conuersant in the word which is true Chap. 1. the. 19. Diuision T. C. Page 64. Sect. 2. But how commeth it to passe that S. Paule neyther in the one place neyther in the other nor else where maketh mention of the Archbyshop which is said to be the chefest piller and vndersetter of the Church Now I heare what is said to this that vnder the Pastor is conteyned byshop he is not conteyned but is the same that byshop How then Forsooth say they an Archbyshop is byshop well then of byshops some are Archbyshops some are what Here I see that they (*) You imagin that they are hāged and therfore help before you be d sired are hanged in the bush but I will help them of by shops some are Archbyshops some are by the commō name byshops For if they answer not thus what haue they to say But what an absurd thing were that to say that S. Paule comprehended an Archbyshop vnder a Pastor or byshop whych neyther was at that time nor certaine hundred yeares after this were not to deinde but to prophecie And how is it that they neuer marked that S. Paule speaketh of those functions whiche were in the Church and not of those which should be afterward and of those that God had giuen and not of those which he would giue ▪ For the words are and he hath giuen Io. Whitgifte No man can denie but a bishop may aptly be comprehended vnder this name Pastor and Archbyshop vnder the name of a Byshop and it may as well be saide that of byshops some be called Archbyshops and some by the name of byshops as it may be saide of kings some be called Emperours some by the common name of kings of Dukes some Archdukes some by the common name of Dukes of Iustices some chiefe Iustices some by the common name of Iustices What if the name of an Archbyshop were not in S. Paules time Doth it therefore Things may be lawfull which were not in Paules time follow that the thing signifyed by the name was not in his time This worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was not in S. Paules time but afterward inuented in the councel of Nice Yet was the thing thereby signifyed in S. Paules time and from the beginning Other names there be also whiche were inuented since the Apostles time and yet both lawfully and necessarily vsed The authoritie and thing whereof the Archbyshop hath his name was in Paules time and therefore the name lawfull and if it hád not bin in S. Paules time yet were both the name and the office lawfull bycause it perteyneth to the externall policie and regiment of the Church which is variable according to the place time person and other circumstances Shall not the authoritie that Christian Princes haue in matters ecclesiasticall be thought lawfull bycause there were no such Princes in S. Paules time Dr shall not they haue the chiefe authoritie in ruling and gouerning the Church in exteruall policie and regiment bycause there is no suche expresse mention of them in those two places of S. Paule But you shall answer yourselfe for you say that in those places S. Paule speaketh of such functions as were then in the church not of such as should be afterward whiche is true And therefore I conclude that as all those offices by your owne confession before are not necessary for all times in the Church so are they not only for all times of the Church but other may be brought in méete for the gouernment of the same I know your meaning is nothing lesse yet this is my collection which I thinke you will very hardly answer How many hundred yeares the name of Archbyshop was after the Apostles time shall appeare in another place Chap. 1. the. 20. Diuision T. C. Pag. 64. Sect. 3. Moreouer if so be vnder the Pastor the Apostle comprehended an Archbyshop thē the Archbyshop is necessary and such as the Church cannot be without and commaunded of God therfore not taken vp by the pollicie of the Church for the tune countrey and other circumstances and such also as cannot be put downe at the will of the Church which is contrary to the iudgemente of those which are the Archbyshops Patrones Io. Whitgifte Your argument if it be thus framed Pastors are necessary at all times in all estates of the Church and in all places and cannot be put downe at the will of the Church Archbyshops are Pastors therfore they be necessary at all times 〈◊〉 I denie your argumente bycause the maior in the first figure cannot be particular If you make your maior vniuersall then I do denie it and put you to the proofe If you say that to preach the word and to administer the sacramēts which is the office of a Pastor is necessary at all times then I confesse it to be true and distinguish the minor on this sort that an Archbyshop in respect of the ministery of the worde and sacraments
you meane that eyther all kinde of ecclesiasticall discipline and gouernment is committed to all such as preach the worde or in as ample manner to one as to another you haue not yet proued it neyther will you be hable to proue it with all the learning that you thinke your selfe to haue That in 1. Tim. 5. doth proue no such matter as you pretende For what doth What it is to rule well S. Paule meane there by gouerning well Christ Ecclesiae suae tum doctrina tum integritate vitae fideliter inseruire non suased quae Dei sunt quaerere to serue Christ and his Church faythfully both in doctrine and integritie of lyfe to seeke not those things which are his but those which are Gods Thus do the learned interpreters expound bene praeesse in this place Is not the office of teaching exhorting reprouing an office of ruling and gouerning But you say that the Apostle doth make two kinde of gouernours one that trauayleth in the worde the other that doth not And what then he that diligently doth that office that is committed vnto him whether it be in preaching the worde prouiding for the poore visiting the sicke or any such lyke function doth rule well But doth it therefore follow that all haue like authoritie or that there is no kinde of Ecclesiasticall gouernment or discipline but that which is common to all the ministers of the worde Certayne it is that euery Pastor that doth his duetie in All ministers gouerne but not alike preaching ruleth well and so do they also that duely and truly administer the Sacraments relieue the poore visite the sicke priuately admonish c. But is there therefore none that hath superioritie ouer them to procure that those things be done accordingly to correct them if they be not done to sée that euery man be kept in order be obedient to lawes teach true doctrine breake not vnitie c This place therefore helpeth you not For although all ministers of the woorde rule and gouerne after a sort yet do not they al so in all kinde of gouernment nor equally for they also must haue gouernours But consider your reason or at the least the end of your drifte All ministers of the Wherevnto 〈◊〉 dust of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 worde gouerne their parishes by preaching the woorde rebuking sinne c. Ergo th y must haue none to gouerne them and kéepe them in order and sée that they do their duetie it is all one with this Euery Master of a familie ruleth ouer his familie ▪ and therefore he must haue no superïour to rule ouer him or euery chiefe officer of Cities or Townes be rulers and gouernours of those places therfore they must haue none to rule and gouerne either their cities and townes or themselues In déed this is a plausible doctrine to make euery Pastor chiefe gouernour within his owne parishe and to make euery citie and towne a kingdome within it selfe but it is a pestilent doctrine for in short time there would be as many Popes as Pastors as many religions as parishes as many sectes as families and in the end an ouerthrow both of religion the Churche and the kingdome Neyther coulde there possibly haue bene inuented a more readier way for the Pope to make his entrie in hither againe Of your distinction of Presbyter I will speake in a more fitte place I haue not forgot my selfe but you neyther vnderstande as it appeareth my writings neyther yet your own for hyther to you haue fought wythout an aduersarie And yet I muste put you in minde of your falsehoode and subtill dealing for whereas I saye that the Apostle in the. 4. Ephe. speaketh onely of those ministers and ministeries which are occupied in prayers the worde and administration of the sacraments you by displacing the woorde only make your Reader beléeue that I affirme the Apostle to speake in that place of those that meddle with the ministring of the word and Sacraments onely as if I shoulde seclude the ministers of the worde from all kinde of gouernment Chap. 1. the. 28. Diuision T. C. Pag. 65. Sect. 5. And least any man should say I confute my owne shadow I must let him to vnderstand that there is a Pamphlet in Latin which is called the (*) The booke named but 〈◊〉 you haue consuted your shadow and not the boke as hath appeared boke of the Doctors which goeth from hande to hande and especially so far as they could bring to passe to those only that they thought to fauour that opinion in the which booke all these answeres vnto the place of the Ephesians are conteyned and almost all that which is comprehended in this defense of Archbyshops and Archdeacons wyth other things also which are founde in this booke of M. Doctors and therefore it is very likely that he hauing no other way to vent his rapsodies and rackings togither thought he would bring them to light after this sort But how much better had it bene that this mishapen thing had had the mothers wombe for the graue or being brought out had bene hidden as the former is in some bench-hole or darke place where it shoulde neuer haue seene any light nor no mans eye should euer haue loked of it Io. Whitgifte It had bene much for your credite if you had set downe the wordes of that booke the which you and your fautors in derision cal the booke of Doctors Which you haue only named and not cōfuted The booke dare abide the light and the Author also but so dare not you To the rest of your woordes my answere is onely this that you bewray your spirite for further proofe hereof I referre the reader to the third Chapter of S. Iames from the tenth verse to the end Chap. 1. the. 29. Diuision T. C. Pag. 65. Sect. 5. And thus al these clowds being scattered by the sunne of the truth you see that the place to the Ephesians standeth strong against the Archbyshop and Archedeacon Io. Whitgifte Nothing lesse but the contrary for any thing that you haue spoken yet Chap. 1. the. 30. Diuision T. C. Pag. 65. Sect. 5. Pag 66. Sect. 1. Nowe I will reason also after this sort out of the place of the Ephesians and Corinthians ioyned together There is no function but hath giftes fit and apte to discharge it annexed and gyuen vnto it wherevpon the Apostle by a Metonomie doth call the Apostles Prophets c. giftes bycause they haue alwayes giftes ioyned with them This being graunted as no man can denie it I reason thus (a) Syllogisme without all forme Those functions only are sufficent for the church which haue all the gifts needefull eyther for the ministring of the worde and sacraments or for the gouernment of the churche but all these functions reckened of S. Paule to the Ephesians with those which S. Paule calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which are the Deacons and elders
one agaynst the other He that calleth an Archbishop a Bishop speaketh properly for so he is in the respecte of his ministerie and substance of his office the name of Archebishop he hathe onely in respecte of order and pollicie Archbishop and Bishop are members of one diuision as chiefe Iustice and Iustice is Euery chiefe Iustice is a Iustice but euery Iustice is not a chiefe Iustice euen so euery Archbishop is a Bishop but euery Bishop is not an Archbishop neyther is this suche a straunge diuision as you thinke it to be For Aristotle dyd in like maner deuide 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Regnum Aristocratiam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is that which is commonly called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Chap. 2. the. 12. Diuision T. C. Pag. 69. Sect. 3. And yet I haue a further answere both to Erasmus and Uolusianus and whatsoeuer other haue written after this sorte that they spake and gaue titles to those men they wrote of not according to that which they were but according to the custome maner of that age wherin they wrote And so we may reade that Uincentius and Nicephorus writing of Uictor speake farre otherwise Vinc. 10. li. cap. 124. Nicep 4. li. cap. 38. of him than Eusebius doth which notwithstanding wrote of the same man whiche they did The one calleth Uictor the Pope of Rome (*) Nicephorus falsified and the other fayth that in glorie he passed all the Bishops before him which Eusebius neuer maketh any word of Euen so Uolusianus Erasmus liuing in the times when as they which were y e most esteemed in the ministerie were called archbishops call Titus and Dionisius Archebishops vpon whome depended the chiefe care of those Churches which they gouerned Io. Whitgifte This is no answere at all first bicause Erasmus woulde then haue giuen to Timothie the same title also secondly bicause Erasmus béeing a man of so singular knowledge and iudgement woulde not otherwyse than truely report of any man especially in suche a case and handling matters of diuinitie Thirdly bicause when he wrote there was neyther Bishop nor Archbishop at Creta as there was at Rome when Vincentius and Nicephorus writte And if this were true that you saye then shoulde Eusebius when he wrote of Victor haue termed him a Patriarke or an Archbishop or Metropolitane at the least For these names were vsuall in Eusebius his time But why doe you vntruely reporte of Nicephorus for in that booke and chapter he giueth vnto Victor no other name and title than the same that Eusebius dothe for he calleth him by the bare name of Victor without any other title neyther dothe he saye that in glorie he passed all the Bishops before him but this he sayth that the other Bishops which were with him did diswade him from excommunicating the Bishops of Asia and addeth Et acrius seueriusquecum illo qui gloria eos anteiret egerunt They delt more sharply and seuerely with him that excelled them in glorie Therefore he saythe that he did excell in glorie those Bishops that were then not those which were before him But what is this to your purpose If he had giuen vnto Victor any other title than was vsuall when he liued dothe it therfore followe that Erasmus and Volusianus had done so in like maner will you answere suche learned and notable mens authoritie with so vayne and childishe coniectures Chap. 2. the. 13. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 65. Sect. 4. Pag. 66. Sect. 1. I omitte Anacletus a godly Bishop and Martyr who liued Anno Domini 85. whiche in his Epistle Tom. 1. conci diuers times maketh mention of Archbishops Patriarkes Primates Metropolitanes and sayth that S. Iames which was called Iustus was the first Archbishop of Ierusalem I omitte also Anicetus who liued Anno Domini 155. whiche likewyse in his Epistle maketh mention of Archebishops Bicause these Epistles are not without iust cause suspected eyther to be none of theirs or else in diuers poyntes corrupted T. C. Page 69. Sect. 3. There followeth Anacletus an other of these witnesses which must depose that the name of an Archebishop is not Antichristian of whom as of Clement that went before Anicetus which followeth after the common prouerbe may be verified Aske my fell we it I be a theefe And althoughe the Answerer be ashamed of him and sayth therfore he will omit him yet euen (a) This is 〈◊〉 s will appea in the ende very neede driueth him to bring him in and to make him speake the vttermost he can And this 〈◊〉 man sayth that Iames was the first Archbishop of Ierusalem but Eusebius sayth Iames was Ibi. 2. 23. Bishop not Archbishop of Ierusalem and appoynted by the Apostles And in the thirde booke (*) It is the ▪ 〈◊〉 chapter 22 ▪ chapter he sayth that the Apostles did appoynt after his death Simeon the sonne of Cleophas Bishop of Ierusalem And Ireneus in his fourth booke 63. chapter saythe that the Apostles in all places appoynted Bishops vnto the Churches whereby it may appeare what an idle dreame it is of Clement Uolusianus and Anacletus eyther that Peter dyd this by his owne authoritie or that the primitiue Church was euer stayned with these ambicious titles of Patriarke primate Metropolitane or Archbishop when as the stories make mention that throughout euery Churche not euery prouince not by Peter or Paule but by Apostles a Bishop not an Archbishop was appoynted Io. Whitgifte If they be the A acletus or Clemens or Anicetus that commonly they are taken for and these writings were theirs vncorrupted then were their witnesse sufficient althoughe they were Bishops of Rome But I neyther will defende their writings neyther doe I thinke them to be worthy any defense onely I require but that libertie of vsing them that no learned man refuseth when they serue his turne Master Caluine doth alleage this Anacletus his authoritie to proue that the peoples consent Caluin M. F xe was required in y e appoynting of ministers Instit. cap. 8. Sect. 61. So doth M. Foxe tom 1. pag. 12. who writeth thus VVherfore as we must needes graunt the Bishop of Rome to be called a Metropolitane or an Archbishop by the Councell of Nice so we will not greatly sticke in this also to haue him numbred with Patriarkes or Primates whiche title seemed in olde tyme to be common to moe Cities than to Rome both by the Epistle of Anacletus of Pope Stephanus and Pope Iulius and Leo. c. Master Iewell also himselfe dothe vse his authoritie in that sorte that I doe But what néede you be so curious who haue so often alleaged the Canons of the Apostles and in your 95. page you vse the authoritie of Higinus or Pelagius as greate a counterfeite as this Anacletus is I speake not this to winne any credite to Anacletus his M Iewell Pag. 95. sec. 4 Epistles or decrées but to auoyde your cauils and
prouinciarum Metropolitani potestatem habeant in suos Episcopos sacerdotes ecclesias Alexandrinus in Aegypto Antiochenus in Syria c. This Synode also appoynted that the Metropolitanes of euery prouince shoulde haue authoritie ouer their Byshops Priestes and Churches The Byshop of Alexandria in Egypt and the Byshop of Antioche in Syria c. And in his booke that he entituleth a refutation of the innectiue of Brunus against the Centuries he doth interprete this Canon on this manner Here we see plainely that the Nicene Councell first in this Canon doth giue a primacie to the Metropolitane in euery Prouince and doth make subiecte vnto him all the Byshops and Priestes of his prouince Moreouer that it maketh all the Metropolitane Byshops as of Alexandria Rome and Antioche and of other Prouinces altogether of equall authoritie amongst them selues And last that the subiectes if that I may so say of an other may not appeale to any other Metropolitane and after this manner the sixth Councell of Carthage doth vnderstande alleage and vrge the foresaid Canon in the former Epistle M. Foxe who hath very diligently and faithfully laboured in this matter and searched out the truth of it as learnedly as I knowe any man to haue done in his firste Tom. Pag. 11. writeth thus Then followed the Councell of Nyce wherein it was decreed M. Foxe that throughout the vniuersitie of Christes Churche which was nowe farre spred ouer the world certeine Prouinces and Precinctes to the number of foure were appoynted euery one to haue his head Churche and chiefe Byshop called them Metropolitanes or Patriarkes to haue the ouersight of such Churches as did lye about him and Pag. 12. he speaketh to the same effecte as it may appeare in his wordes which I haue before recited And in the same Page he saith VVherefore as we must needes graunt the Byshop of Rome to be called a Metropolitane or an Archbyshop by the Councell of Nyce so we will not greatly sticke in this also to haue him numbred with Patriarkes or Primates c. But the very wordes of the Canon it selfe doth condemne you of a great ouersight T. C. condemned of vn truth by the words of the Canon Can. 6. For this is the Canon antiqua consuetudo seruetur per Aegyptū Libyam Pentapolim ita vt Alexandrinus Episcopus horum omnium habeat potestatem c. Let the auncient custome be kept throughout Egypt Libya and Pentapolis that the Byshop of Alexandria haue the gouernment of all these c. as is said before How say you nowe is not this for the name and for the office also of our Metropolitanes and Archbyshops had not they iurisdiction of whole Prouinces as ours haue The authoritie of tropo ane were not all other Byshops and Ministers of the Church subiect to them as they be to ours were not they Metropolitanes of Prouinces and countreys as ours be And is this no more to differ than a Minister of London and a Minister of Nuington Truely I maruaile that you can be caryed vnto so manifest vntruthes and palpable errors But for the further declaration of the authoritie of a Metropolitane Byshop though this which I haue said be sufficient it may please you to take paines to peruse in the Con. Antioc Councell of Antioche the. 9. Canon Per singulas prouincias Episcopos conuenit nosse Metropolitanum Episcopum solicitudinem totius prouinciae gerere In euerye prouince it is conuenient that Byshops should know that the Metropolitane Byshop hath the caryng for of the vvhole prouince c. as is mentioned before in the first Canon of the Councell of Ephesus It is also euident that the Metropolitane of the Prouince for so is he there called had authoritie ouer all the Bishops in the same prouince But to make short bycause I shall haue other occasion to speake of this matter M. Foxe in the treatise before recited concludeth thus VVhereby it is to be concluded that to be false that Clement and Anacletus and Anicetus be reported but falsly to put a difference betwene Primates or Patriarkes Metropolitanes or Archbyshops whereas by sufficient authoritie 〈◊〉 is to be proued that in the olde Churche both Primates first Byshops Byshops of the firste seate Patriarkes Metropolitanes Byshops of the mother Citie and Archbyshops were all one First that Primates and Metropolitanes were both one is before declared in the Canons of the Apostles and by the Councel of Antioche aforesayd The same doth Vilierius Vilierius affirme in his booke de statu primitiuae ecclesiae Fol. 26. and proueth it out of Socrates verye manifestly that is that Metropolitanes and Patriarkes were all one at the first I am not ignorant but there is some controuersie among both the Ciuilians and Canonistes whether a Metropolitane or an Archbyshop be all one or no but in the ende this is the opinion of the most so farre as I can reade or learne that they be idem re the same in déede but differ nomine in name For he is called an Archbyshop in respect of the other Byshops of whom he is the chiefe But he is called Metropolitane in respecte of the Cities that be within his Prouince But of Archbyshops and Metropolitanes more must be spoken hereafter Chap. 2. the. 20. Diuision T. C. Page 70. Sect. vlt. There are alleaged to proue the names of Archbishops Patriarkes Archdeacons the. 13. 25. 26. and. 27. Canons of the Councell of Nice For the. 25. 26. and. 27. there are no suche Canons of that Councell and although there be a thirtenth Canon there is no worde of Patriarke or Archdeacon there conteined And I maruaile with what shame you can thrust vpon vs these (*) These Canons differ onely in number and not in matter from those that are not counterfeit counterfeite Canons which come out of the Popes mint yea and which are not to e founde Theodorete saith that there are but twentie Canons of the Councell of Nyce and those twentie are in the ome of the Councels and in those there is no mention of any Patriarke Archbyshop Archdeacon Li. 1. cap. 8. Li. 1. cap. 6. Ruffine also remembreth 22. Canons very little differing from those other twentie but in length in none of those are founde any of these names of Archbishop Archdeacon or Patriarke and it is as (a) Not so for that is repugnant to the true Canon therfore coūterfeit lawfull for M. Harding to allcage the. 44. Canon of the Councell of Nyce to proue the Supremacie of the Pope of Rome as it is for M. Doctor Whitgifte to alleage the. 25. 26. 27. to proue the name of Archbyshop Archdeacon Patriarke for they are all of one stampe and haue lyke authoritie Io. Whitgifte I will not greatly sticke in the defense of those Canons the fixth the seuenth Canō do sufficiently verifie all that I haue alleaged out of the other as is declared not onely
with the offices then suche as speake of the very thyng it sel e withoute the names I will begin with Councels The Councell of Nice as you haue hearde hath the name of Metropolitane Councels of the name and o ice of Metropolitane an Archbishoppe c. Con. Ni en Can. 4. 7. and dothe limitte vnto ym certaine Prouinces to gouerne and take the care of It hathe bin declared that bothe M. Caluine Illyricus M. Foxe and others doe acknowledge the names and office of Patriarkes and Archbishoppes c. in the same Canon to be conteyned Neyther doe they nor any other learned wryter denie these names and offices to haue bene in the primitiue Churche and that fixed to certayne places and persons not mouable by actions nor practised by course Lykewyse you haue hearde howe that Councell by this clause Secundùm morem antiquum according to the auncient custome doth signifie that these names and offices haue bene in the Churche of long tyme or else it woulde not haue bin saide to be an olde custome Moreouer the nynthe Canon of the Councell of Antioche before alledged is Con. Antiocb can 9. most playne and euident both for the name and the thing together with the long continuance of them in the Churche The. 20. Canon of the same Councell of Antioche sayeth directly that no Bishoppes Can. 20. may call a seuerall Councell withoute the consente of theyr Metropolitanes In the sixth and. 37. Canons Concilij Arelatensis mention is made of the Metropolitane Con. Arelat cano 6. 37. of his authoritie in ordering of bishoppes and of the authoritie of his Synode The lyke bothe for the name and the matter also touchyng ordeynyng of Con. L odic can 12. Con Cartb 2. Can 12. Byshoppes is in the twelsth Canon of the Councell of Laodicea In the seconde Councell of Carthage in the twelfthe Canon it is euident that there was a Primate in euerye Prouince and that withoute his commaundement it was not lawfull for any to bée ordeyned Bishop In the. 13. and. 17. and diuers other Canons of the general Councell of Carchage Con. Carth. can 13. ▪ 17. c Con. Chalcedo as it is in the Gréeke copie the authoritie of the Primate is also expressed In the Councell of Chalcedon the name of Archebishoppe is sundrye tymes vsed Flauianus is there called Archebishop of Constantinople Dioscorus Archebishop of Alexandria and one Atticus bishoppe of Nicopolis dothe call the saide Dioscorus Archi piscopum nostrum our Archebishop Leo is called Archebishop of Rome c. Of the Councels that folowed there is no doubte and it were but superfluous for mee to stande in reciting of them and therfore thys shall suffise for the Councels to shew that bothe the name of Metropolitane or Archbishop and also the authoritie is not vnhearde of in the Churche of Christ or a flitting or slyding office Fathers and 〈◊〉 of the name and 〈◊〉 t Archebishop E phanius Nowe to the fathers and stories Epiphanius Lib. 2. tom 2. haeri 68. calleth one Peter Archebishoppe of Alexandria And that it maye fully appeare that it was bothe a continuall office and of greate authoritie and iurisdiction I will sette towne his woordes Et Meletius quidem in carcere detentus erat vnà cum praedictis Martyribus ac Petro Alexandriae Arc iepiscopo c. And Meletius truely was kepte in pryson togyther with the forenamed Martyrs and Peter the Archbishop of Alexandria and Meletius seemed to excell the other bishops of Aegypt for he had the seconde place after Peter in his Archbishoprike as being vnder him to helpe him and looking to Ecclesiasticall matters vnder him For this is the custome that the Byshoppe of Alexandria hathe the Ecclesiasticall gouernmente of all Aegypte Thebais and Mareota and Libya and Ammonica and Mareotis and Pentapolis In the same leafe he calleth this Peter Archbyshop thrée times This Peter lyued in the yeare of our Lorde thrée hundred and foure twentie yeres at the least before Peter Arch bishop of Alexandria abou twentie yeres before the Councell of Nice Idem the Councell of Nice The same Epiphanius in the same Booke and Tome baere 69. writeth thus Quotquot enim Ecclesiae in Alexandria catholicae Ecclesiae sunt sub vno Archiepiscopo sunt All the Churches that are Catholike Churches in Alexandria are vnder one Archebyshoppe And a little after he calleth Meletius Archebyshoppe of Aegypte but yet subiecte to Alexander the Archebyshoppe of Alexandria and all this was before the Councell ot Nice What can be spoken more aptely and more playnely to my purpose And if T. C. will cauill at the authoritie of the authour whyche is the poorest shifte that can bée especially when the authour is so generally allowed then for breuities sake I doe referre hym to the Epistle of Ianus Cornarius prefixed before this Booke and to that whiche after warde I haue alledged in his defense out of the Centuries Athanasius was called Archebyshoppe of Alexandria and that it may appeare that it was not a bare title but an office of Gouernment you shall finde these wordes in his second Apologie Iscbaras quidam vt nequaquam clericus ita moribus improbissimus conatus est sui pagi insulas decipere iactans sese clericum esse Id vbi resciuisset eius loci Presbyter mibi tum Ecclesias Atbanas Apol. 2. perlustranti renunciauit ego igitur c. A certaine man named Ischaras as hee was no Clearke so was hee most wicked in manners who wente aboute to deceyue the yles of his precincte boasting that hee was a Clarke when the Prieste of that place vnderstoode thereof hee tolde it vnto mee when I was visiting my Churches so I sente the same man togyther wyth Macharius the Prieste to fetche vnto mee Ischaras whome when they founde sicke in his chamber they commaunded hys father to warne hys sonne that hee attempted no suche thing as was reported of him And after in the same place followeth Ischaras Letters of submission to Athanasius In the same Apologie there are Letters of submission written by Arsennius Byshoppe of Hipsell and the Ministers and Deacons of the same Diecesse to Athanasius the beginning of the Letters is this Et nos quoque diligentes pacem vnanimitatem cum ecclesia catholica cui tu per Dei gratiam praefectus es volensque ecclesiastico Canoni pro veteri instituto subijci scribimus tibi Papa dilecte promittimusque in nomine Domini nos deinceps non communicaturos cum schismaticis c. And we also louing peace and concord with the Catholike Churche ouer whiche thou arte by the grace of God appoynted and willing accordyng to the olde custome to be subiecte to the Ecclesiasticall Canon write to thee louing father and in the name of the Lorde promise that wee hences orth will not communicate with the Schismatikes By this it is playne that Athanasius had great iurisdiction ouer many Byshops and other
Ministers and ecclesiasticall persons Againe in the same Apologie mention is made of an Archbyshop In the same Booke the Priestes and Deacons of the Churches of Mareota in an Epistle that they writte to the Synode besydes that they call Athanasius Episcopum nostrum oure Byshoppe they shewe that hée vsed to visite the Churche solemnlye accompanyed Theyr wordes are woorthe the notyng and bée these folowyng Vtpote qui non longis finibus ab Episcopo distemus comites in lustranda Marioteei cohasimus nunquam enim ille solus visitandi causa itinera obire solet sed comites secum trabere Presbyteros Diaconos non paucos ex plebe Bicause we dwell not farre from the Byshoppe and we accompanied him whilest he visited Mariotes for he is neuer wont alone to take iourneyes in visitations but to take companions with him Priestes and Deacons and many of the people And his own wordes a little before that Epistle speaking of these Priestes and Deacons be these Et mecum Prouincias lustrabant And they visited the Prouinces with me Whereby also it is euident that he had a large iurisdiction and that he did visite his Prouinces The same Athanasius in that Apologie declaring what this place called Mariotes is sayth Mariotes ager est in Alexandria quo in loco nunquam fuit Episcopus imo ne Chorepiscopus quidem sed vniuer sae eius loci Ecclesiae Episcopo Alexandrino subiacent tamen vt singuli pagi suos presbyteros habeant Mariotes is a territorie of Alexandria where there was neuer Byshop no not so muche as a Byshops deputie but all the Churches of that place are vnder the Byshop of Alexandria yet so that euery village haue their Priestes In his Epistle Ad solitariam vitam degentes he calleth Lucius Metropolitane of Sardinia and Dionysius Metropolitane of Mediolane Socrates Lib. 5. cap. 8. sayth that in the Councell of Constantinople They confirmed Socrates the faythe of the Nicene Councell and appointed Patriarkes assigning their Prouinces that the Byshoppes of one Dioces shoulde not intermedle in other Churches for this before was indifferently vsed by reason of persecution And to Nectarius was allotted Megalopolis and Thracia c. The same is to be séene in the Canons of that Councell of Constantinople Iustinian Illyricus Cent. 4. I omitte Iustinian the Emperoure who so often mentioneth these names and offices in his Constitutions I also omitte that Illyricus calleth Cyprian Metropolitane of Carthage and the fourthe Centurie where Ambrose is called Metropolitane hauyng gouernmente of many Churches Neyther shall I néede to repeate the places of Caluine M. Foxe M. Beza Lib. conf cap. 5. or other late wryters iudgementes who directely confesse that these names were vsuall in the Primitiue Churche and that the office was permanente for this that is spoken maye suafice I will come to those Authours and places where the office and iurisdiction is The office of Metropolitan Archbishop without the name Cyprian Greg. Nazi spoken of though the name be not expressed Cyprian Lib. 4. Epist. 8. sayeth that he hadde a large Prouince Habet enim Numidiam Mauritaniam sibi cobaerentes for it hathe Numidia and Mauritania annexed vnto it And Gregorie Nazianzene in the Oration that he made in the commendation of Cyprian sayeth that he didde rule and gouerne not onely the Churches of Carthage or Affrike sed Hesperiae vniuersae imò Orienti ferè ipsi ad finem vsque meridiei Septentrionis but of all Spayne and almoste of the whole Easte vnto the ende of the Southe and the Northe And what was this else but to bée an Archebyshop Eusebius Lib. 6. cap. 1. sayeth that Demetrius was Byshop of the Parishes of Alexandria Eusebius and of Egypt and this Demetrius liued Anno Domini 191. Eusebius testifyeth there likewise that one Iulianus was before him in the same roume Athanasius in an Epistle that he writte De sentētia Dionysij Episcopi Alexand. contra Arrianos Atbanasius affirmeth ad Dionysium Alexandria ▪ Episcopum curam etiam Ecclesiarum in Pentapoli superioris Libyae pertinuisse that vnto Dionysius Bishoppe of Alexandria the care of the Churches in Pentapolis of the higher Libya perteyned And it is manyfeste in the same Epistle that these Churches had their Byshoppe besydes For Eusebius Lib. 7. cap. 26. Euseb. writeth that Basilides was Byshoppe of the parishes of Pentapolis while Dionysius lyued so that it is euident that Dionyfius was an Archebyshoppe And this is that Dionysius that is called Alexandrinus whose workes be extante and is one of the most ancient writers The same Eusebius sayth that Gregorie did gouerne the Churches throughout Pontus Sozomen Lib. 7. cap. 19. sayth that though there be many cities in Sythia yet they Sozom. haue but one bishoppe Theodoret. lib. 4. cap. 11. testifyeth that Amphilochius to whome the Metropolitane citie of Licaonia was committed to be gouerned did also gouerne that whole countreye and did driue from thence the heresie of the Messalians And in the same Chapter we Theodoret. reade that Letoius gouernour of the Churches of Militia burned Monasteries infected with that heresie whiche declareth that Bishops had then greate authoritie in gouernment Aurelius Bishop of Carthage in the Councell of Affrike sayd that he had the ouersyght and care of many Churches But what néede I labour so muche in a matter that can not be vnknowne to Con. Afric can 55. in graeco any that is of any reading this therfore shall suffice bothe for the name and office of an Archebishop Metropolitane c. against the vnlearned distinction that you haue vsed in answering S. Ambrose Chap. 2. the. 26. Diuision Auswere to the Admonition Pag. 66. Sect. 5. Sozomenus lykewyse Lib. 2. of his Ecclesiasticall historie cap. 8. calleth Symeon Archbishop of Seleucia and Basile the greate Metropolitane of Cappadocia Lib. 3. cap. 16. T. C. Page 71. Sect. vlt. Basill you saye the great Metropolitane of Cappadocia I haue shewed what the woorde Metropolitane signifyeth and howe there was not then suche a Metropolitane as wee haue now and as the Admonition speaketh agaynst You playe as he whithe is noted as none of the wysest among the marchauntes whyche thought that euery shippe that approched the hauen was his ship For so you thinke that wheresoeuer you reade Metropolitane or Archebishoppe ▪ foorthwith you thinke there is your Metropolitane or your Archebishop where as it shall appeare that besydes the name they are no more lyke than a bishop with vs is lyke a minister Io. Whitgifte What this worde Metropolitane signifyeth what office and iurisdiction he had is before sufficiently declared and may more at large appeare in the constitutions of Iustinian Lykewyse whether our Metropolitans in office any thing at all differ from them Surely he that shall well consider your vnapte answeres and your vtopicall iestes may thinke that you weare the liuerie of those marchantes you talke of and
may verie wel sayle in their ships Chap. 2. the. 27. Diuision T. C. Pag. 72. Sect. 1. I can not tel whether you would abuse your reader here with the fallation of the accent bycause this worde great is so placed betwene Basile and Metropolitane that it may be as well referred to the Metropolitane as to Basill and so you hauing put no comma it seemeth you had as lieue haue your reader reade great Metropolitane as great Basil. But that the simpler sort be not deceyued therby it is not out of the way to let the reader vnderstande what a great Metropolitane this was whiche appeareth for that when he was threatned by the magistrate confiscation of his Sozom. 6. l. e. 16. goods answered that he was not afrayde of the threatnings and that all his goodes were a very fewe bookes and an olde gowne suche were then those Metropolitanes vnder whose shadowes M. Doctor goeth about to shroude all this pompe and princely magnificence of Archbishops Io. Whitgifte You search verie narowly when you misse not a comma but you knowe what nugator signifieth All men of learning can tell that Basile is in common speach called Basile the great And yet if he were called great Metropolitan the title might verie well agrée vnto him for he had large and ample iurisdiction being bishoppe of Cappadocia as Athanasius dothe also witnesse in his Epistle written to Palladius The contention is for the name and the office not for the ryches al houghe I thynke that there both are and haue bene Bishops in Englande as poore as Basile if they had en taken so soone after they were placed in theyr bishoprikes as Basile was nowe at this tyme. Chap. 2. the. 28. Diuision T. C. Pag. 72. Sect 2. 3. 4. As for Symeon Archbishop of Sele cia I will not denie but at that time was the name of Archbishops For then (*) An vnaduised answer Satan had made thorough the titles of Archbishops Pr ates and Patriarches as it were three staires wherby Antichrist might clyme vp into his cursed seate notwithstanding there wanted not good decrees of godlie councelles which did strike at these proude names and went aboute to keepe them downe But the swelling waters of the ambition of dyuers coulde not by any bankes be kept in which hauing once broken out in certaine places afterwardes couered almost the face of the whole earth This deuour of godly men may appeare in the Councell of Carthage which decreed that the Con. Car cap. 39. bishop of the fyrst seat shold not be called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is eyther the chiefe of the priestes or the hyghe priest or any suche thing by whiche woordes any such thing he shutteth out the name of Archbishop and all such hau e titles The same decree also was made in the Africane councell and if you saye that it was made against Con. tom 1 cap. 6. the Pope of Rome or to forbidde that any man should be called Archbishoppe shewe me where ther was eyther bishop of Rome or any other that euer made any such title or chal nge to be the generall Bishop of all at that tyme when this councell of Carthage was holden when as the first of those which did make any su h chalenge was the bishop of Constantinople which notwithstanding (a) An vntruth chalenged not the preheminence first ouer all but that he might ordeyne bishops of Asia Pontus Thracia whiche were before appointed by theyr Synodes and this was in the councell of Chalcedon which was long after that councell of Carthage before remembred Io. Whitgifte It is before sufficiently declared that these names and offices were allowed and confirmed by the Councell of Nice and therefore not brought in by Satan Moreouer this Symeon Archbishop of Seleucia liued as it may appeare by most Chronicles aboute the tyme of the Councell of Nice and was martyred by Sapores the king of Persia. Which peraduenture if you had vnderstoode you woulde not haue burste oute into this heate of woordes for then might you haue made the same answere to Ambrose his authoritie which was long after him so kept secret your owne fond deuise The Councell of Carthage and also of Affrike was at that tyme wherein the Bishop of Rome by his Legates didde clayme the right of hearyng of appeales from whome soeuer they were made and for his purpose alleaged a counterfait Canon of the Councell of Nice Wherefore it is moste certayne that then th Bishop of Rome beganne at the leaste to clayme the super oritie ouer all Churches and to take vpon hym as it were the name of vniuersall Byshoppe and therfore this canon is made against him And that thys is true the Epistle of the Councell of Affrike written to Celestinus then Bishoppe of Rome declareth For after that they haue esyred hym that he woulde admit no suche appeales nor absolue such as they should excominunicate bycause that was to doe agaynst the decrées of the Councell of Nice and to abridge them of their iurisdiction and libertie they adde and saye Both bicause this priuiledge hath bin taken from the Church of Aphrike by no constitution of the fathers and also the decrees of the councell of Nice hath committed bothe the inferiour Clearkes and the Bishops themselues vnto their Metropolitanes for it was discretely and rightly consydered that all matters are to bee determined in the places where they began and that no prouince can lacke the grace of the holie ghost wherby the prieste of Christe may be hable both wisely to see and also constantly to mainteyn the right especially for that it is lawfull for euery man that shall mislike the discretion of the iudges to appeale either to particular councels within the same prouince or else to an vniuersal councell vnlesse perchaunce some man will thinke that God is able to inspire the triall of iustice into one man alone and will not inspire the same into a greate number of priests meeting togyther in Councell And how may such beyond sea iudgemente be thoughte good wherevnto the persons of the witnesses which in triall of truth are thought necessary either for that they be women or for the infirmitie of their age or for many other incident letts cannot be brought Now that any should be sent abroade as it were from your holinesse side we find it not decreed in any Councell And a little after And send you not any your Clerks hither to execute iustice at any mans request least we seeme to bring the smokie puffe of the world into the Church of Christ. c. Whereby it is plaine that they only prohibite that title of vniuersalitie and of generall iurisdiction that the Byshop of Rome now claymed and at that time began to claime ouer all Churches and not the names of superioritie due vnto any in their owne prouince For that perogatiue of iurisdiction ouer Byshops and other ministers they acknowledge to be due to
as you are I could say that this sleight handling of the Archdeacon and sweating so much aboute the Archbyshop is there vpon that you would be loth to come from being Deane to be an Archdeacon and you liue in some hope of being Archbyshop but I will not enter so farre and surely for any thing that I see you mighte haue trussed vp the Archbyshop as shorte as you do the Archdeacon for they stād vpon one pinne and those reasons which establish the one establish the other Whervpon also commeth to passe that all those reasons which were before alledged against the Archbyshop may be drawen against the Archdeacon Io. Whitgifte The vntoward dealing of the replier his vnsufficiēt answer My purpose in that place is as you mighte haue séene if you woulde to proue that the names of Archbyshops Archdeacon c. be not Antichristian names that is names inuented by Antichriste but most auncient for those be my very words as I haue proued that to be most true in Metrapolitanes and Archbyshops by shewing that they were in the Churche before the Pope was Antichrist so I do the like of Archdeacons And where I haue brought in fiue witnesses you say I haue brought in fower Damasus Hierome Sixtus Sozomene and Socrates be in number fiue and of these fiue you haue answered only two and that after your vsuall manner by reiecting the Authors What is falsely attributed to Damasus in other matters is no answer to this that he reporteth of Archdeacons whiche also the third Centurie alledgeth as true And though he were Byshop of Rome yet was he a vertuous learned and godly Byshop So was Sixtus in like manner who liued Byshop of Rome Anno. 265. So that Damasus was neyther the first nor the best For Sixtus was martyred for the Gospell so was not Damasus They speake as much for Archdeacons as I require that is that their names were not inuented by Antichrist and if there were then no such tyrannie in the Churche of Rome as you here mislike and yet this name in that Church it is not like to be a tyrannicall name But I maruaile you will deale so barely in this matter knewing that Hierome who liued in Damasus his time hathe this name Archdeacon oftner than twise or thrise Without doubt you do not well consider what you write This Answer of yours was neuer as yet approued of any learned mā For what if Eusebius make mention of Subdeacons Acoluthes c. which were peraduenture profitable offices in the Church at that time doth it therefore follow that it is vnlawfull to haue Archdeacons I conclude no necessitie of the Archdeacon but I conclude hys antiquitie and bycause you cannot answer that you fall to scoffing and vnséemely iesting as your manner is and so do you shift off thrée of my witnesses Chap. 2. the. 30. Diuision T. C. Pag. 72. lin 2. Sect. 1. Hauing therefore before proued the vnlawfulnesse of them I will here set downe the differēce betweene those Archdeacons that were in times past and those whiche are nowe whereby it may appeare they are nothing like but in name They were no ministers as appeareth in (*) Vntruth no such thing appeareth Sozomene ours are Io. Whitgifte What one reason haue you vsed to proue the vnlawfulnesse of them If you meane such reasons as you haue against Archbyshops they be fully answered Not one word is there in the seuenth booke and nineteenth Chapter of Sozomene to proue that Archdeacons eyther then were not or now may not be ministers For all that he speaketh in that chapter is this And this also is a strange thing in the Church of Alexandria whiles the Gospells are a reading the Byshop doth not rise vp which I haue hard of others This holy booke a Monke that is an Archdeacon readeth there in other places Deacons in many Churches the priests only but in principall feasts Byshops Howe you can conclude that Archdeacons were not then ministers by any thing here spoken surely I know not for if you meane bycause he saith that in some churches only Priests did reade you can no more thereof conclude that Archdeacons were then no Priests than you may that they were no Deacons or that Byshops be no Priestes neyther is it necessary that they shoulde be nowe ministers it is sufficiente if they be Deacons yet may they be ministers and méete it is that they should so be and you cannot proue the contrary Chap. 2. the. 31. Diuision T. C. Pag. 73. Sect. 2. They were tyed to a certaine Church and were called Archdeacon of such a congregation or Con. Vrbinum Sozo 7. lib. cap. 19. Church ours are tyed to none but are called Archdeacons of such a shire Io. Whitgifte There is no other words in that booke and chap. of Sozomene touching Archdeacons than these whiche I haue before recited what they make for your purpose let the reader iudge Your Vrbanum Concilium is very obscure for there is none such to be found in all the volumes of Councels But to put you out of doubt we haue no Archdeacons but such as be tyed to one Church though they haue the names sometimes of the Shire wherein their iurisdiction lyeth Chap. 2. the. 32. Diuision T. C. Pag. 73. Sect. 3. Ierom. to Euagri They were chosen by all the deacons of the Church where they be Archdeacons ours are appointed by one man and which is no Deacon Io. Whitgifte There can be no such custome gathered of Hieroms words in that place only he vsing an example to declare what the manner of choosing their Byshop was in the Church of Alexandria saith that they elected one from among themselues whome they placing in an higher roome called him a Byshop as if the souldiers should choose their captayne or Deacons should choose one of them whome they know to be painfull and name him archdeacon You can no more hereof conclude that it was then vsuall for deacons to choose their Archdeacon than you may that it was also vsual for souldiers to choose their captaine neyther can you here by proue that our Archdeacons are not like vnto theirs if this were true no more than you can that our Captaines are not like vnto theirs bycause the Souldiers do not choose them But what create matter is it if they were then chosen by Deacons and be not so now and doth not the Byshop appoynt them and is not the Byshop more than a Deacon Chap. 2. the. 33. Diuision Con. Nicen can 14. and after Ruf. 20 T. C. Pag. 73. Sect. 4. They were subiect to the minister of the word ours are aboue them and rule ouer them Io. Whitgifte There is not one word of Archdeacons in the fourtaenth Canon of the Councell of Nice nor in the 20. after Ruffine and therefore you do but abuse the reader That which is in that place is spoken of Deacons onely and is at this day obserued in this
not haue vsed if you could haue founde any better Chap. 3. the. 8. Diuision T. C. Page 76. Sect. 2. Seeing therefore (a) A weake con clusion of false principles the Bishop which Cyprian speaketh of is nothing else but suche as we call pastor or as the common name with vs is parson and his Churche whereof he is a Bishop is neyther dioces nor prouince ▪ but a congregation whiche meete togither in one place and to be taught of one man what should M. Doctor meane to put on this great name of Archbishop vpon so small a Bishopricke as it were Saules great harnesse vpon Dauid his little body or as if a man shoulde set a wyde huge porche before a little house Io. Whitgifte Where the premisses be nought howe shoulde the conclusion be good I would to God your argument were in his right forme that we mighte sée vpon what substantiall postes your conclusion dothe stande But let the Reader consider your grounds which I haue opened before I might heere tell you agayne that Cyprian in playne and manifest words Lib. 4. Epist. 1. dothe make a Bishop superior in degrée to him that you call pastor his words I haue repeated before I might also put you in minde of Cyprians iurisdiction ouer the churches of Carthage Numidia and Mauritanie according to his owne testimonie lib. 4. Epi. 8. in which respecte Illyricus dothe call him Metropolitane Likewise I might tell you that the most writers of that age as Tertullian de Coro militis de Fuga in pers Origen hom 2. in Numer 11. in Hierem. doe make thrée degrées of Ministers Deacons Priests Bishops To be short I could bid you looke Eusebius lib. 6. cap. 1. and you should sinde that Demetrius who liued Anno. 191. was Bishop Paroeciarū Alexandriae Aegypti of the parishes of Alexandria and Egypt and referre you to many suche examples vsed before which vtterly ouerthrowe this conclusion and euen hisse it out of the doores Chap. 3. the. 9 Diuision T. C. Pag. 76. Sect. 3. And least that M. Doctor shoulde saye that notwithstanding the Bishops had but seuerall churches yet one of them might haue eyther a title more excellent than the rest or authoritie and gouernmēt ouer the rest that shal likewise be considered out of Cyprian And first for the title and honor of archebishop it appeareth howe Cyprian helde that as a proude name for he obiecteth to Florentius as a presumptuous thing for that in beleeuing certayne euill reportes of him and misiudging 4. p. 9 of him he did appoynt himselfe Bishop of a Bishop and iudge ouer him whiche was for the time appoynted of God to be iudge Io. Whitgifte Pupianus to whome Cyprian wrote that Epistle had greatly misused Cyprian in beléeuing certayne false rumors reports of him vpon the same giuing sentence against him for this cause Cyprian reproueth Pupianus saying Quis autem nostrum Iongè est ab bumilitate vt úmne ego qui quotidie fratribus seruio venientes ad ecclesiam singulos benignè cū voto gaudio suscipio an tu qui te Episcopū Episcopi iudicē iudicis ad tēpus à Deo dati constituis c. VVhether of vs is further from humilitie I which serue my brethren dayly receyue euery one that cōmeth vnto the Church gētly with desire ioy or thou which makest thy selfe the Bishop of the Bishop and the iudge of the iudge giuen of God for the time It appeareth rather in these words that Florentius is reproued for taking vpon him to iudge Cyprian to whō he ought obedience so that this place doth not deregate any thing frō any lawful authoritie that one Bishop hath ouer another but it condemneth the rash presumptuous iudgement of those that will take vpon them rashly to giue sentēce of their superiours betters as Pupianus did For in that he findeth fault with him for making himselfe as it were Bishop of the Bishop and iudge of the iudge he playnly declareth that he himself was both Bshop and iudge of Pupianus neyther dothe he obiect this to Pupianus as a proude name but as a proude deede Chap. 3. the. 10. Diuision T. C. Pag 76. Sect. 4. And heerein also I may vse the same reasons which the godly writers of our time vse agaynst the Pope to proue that he had no superioritie in those dayes ouer other Bishops for that the other Bishops called him brother and he them called him fellow Bishop he them For so doth Cyprian call the Bishops of that prouince in hys Epistle his fellow Bishops and in diuers places his brethren And in the sentence which he spake in the Councel of Carthage he sayth none of vs doth take him selfe to be Bishop of Bishops Io. Whitgifte Euery Bishop was chiefe in his owne Prouince and not subiect to any The Bishop of Rome had no iurisdictiō ouer the Bishop of Carthage but they were of equall power and authoritie as others were also of the like seates In that Cyprian called the Bishops of his prouince fellowe Bishops and brethren he declared that the functiō and ministerie was all one he like wise vttered his humble minde spirite But this proueth not that he had no superioritie ouer them S. Peter in his first Epist. chap. 5. 1. Pet. cap. 5. calleth himselfe fellowe minister with those whom he then exhorted which were all pastors and such as were ministers of the worde and yet you acknowledge an Apostle to be the highest in the Church aboue al the other degrées mentioned ad Ephe. 4. Cyprians words in the Councell of Carthage I haue spoken of in another place he meaneth the title of vniuersall Bishop and suche as séeke tyrannically vnlawfully to rule and especially suche as will of necessitie binde all other men to their opinions in all thinges for his words be Tyrannico terrore ad obsequendi necessitatem collegas suos adigat None of vs enforceth his fellowes by tyrannicall feare to the necessitie of obeying Chap. 3. the. 11. Diuision T. C. Page 77. Sect. 1. Nowe that there was no authoritie of one Bishop ouer an other and that there was none such as when controuersies rose tooke vpon him the compounding of them or any one to whom it apperteyned to see the vnitie of the Church kept and to see that all other Bishops and the Cleargy dyd their duetie as M. Doctor beareth vs in hande it may clearely be seene in dyuers places of Cyprian and first of all in that sentence which he spake in the Councel of Carthage where he proceedeth further after this sorte that none of them dyd by any tyrannicall feare binde his fellowes in office or any fellowe Bishops to any necessitie of obedience seeing that euery Bishop hath for his free libertie and power his owne iudgement and discretion as one which can not be iudged of an other as he also him selfe can not iudge an other but sayth
saith on thys sorte So that b M Nowell will wi esse against you First booke against Dor man 25. 〈◊〉 when he speaketh meanyng Cyprian of one Byshop one Iudge in the Churche for the time or of the Byshop which is one and ruleth the Churche absolutely he meaneth euery Byshop in hys owne Diocesse without exception if he speake specially he meaneth the Bishop of the citie or Diocesse whereof he intreateth whether it be the Byshop of Rome Carthage or any other place M. Foxe also expoundeth this of euery Byshop within his owne Churche or Diocesse You Fol. 93. heare the iudgement of these three writers that cannot picke out neyther the name nor the office of an Archbyshop out of Cyprians place and yet I thinke you will not denie but these were learned and godly writers Nowe I haue shewed you three I aske once againe of you one godly and learned writer that expoundeth it as you doe And by this time I suppose all men vnderstande what a smallfriend S. Cyprianis either to the name or office of an Archbyshop Let vs heare whether Hierome make any more for the Archbyshop then did Cyprian Io. Whitgifte M. Iewell Byshop of Sarisburie expounding the place of Cyprian in the fourth article M. Iewell 5. Diuision 228. page of his first booke hath these wordes Vpon occasion hereof he sheweth meaning Cyprian what hurte and confusion of sectes and scismes ensueth in any prouince or diocesse whereas the Byshops authoritie and ecclesiasticall discipline is despised I pray you what call you that Byshop that hath gouernement of a prouince Is he not a Metropolitane or Archbyshop and doth not my L. of Sarisbury as well speake of a prouince as he doth of a diocesse I do not deny but that Cyprians words may be fitly applyed to euery Byshop in his diocesse but is the Archbyshop therefore secluded seing he of whome Cyprian did write was a Metropolitane or Archbyshop That whiche is the office of the Archbyshop in his prouince is also the office of a Byshop in his diocesse and therefore that whiche is spoken of the prouince in respecte of the Archbyshop is also spoken of the Diocesse in respecte of the Byshop And pag. 230. he saith that vniuersa fraternitas is taken for one whole particular Idem brotherhoode within one prouince or diocesse so that your firste witnesse testifieth with me else would he not haue named a prouince M. Nowell fol. 22. 23. 24. doth expounde this place of the authoritie of euery Byshop M. Nowell in his owne Diocesse which is sufficient for me and is as much against you as can be for you would haue no Byshops ouer Diocesses but only pastors in seuerall townes That whiche he speaketh of a Byshop in his Diocesse he also meaneth of an Archbyshop in his Prouince whose both name and office he doth allow as it is manyfest in these wordes of his in his thirde booke against Dorman fol. 320 where he answering Idem this question of Dormans whether he will condemne the whole Church for making of Archbishops saith thus I answere I much commend the Churche for so doing so farre of is it that I will condemne the whole Church therfore But what shal I neede to vse any circumstances seing he doth most euidently apply this place of Cyprian to that purpose which you wil not acknowledge yea euen vnto the office of an Archbyshop in his Prouince for thus he writeth fol. 33. of his firste booke speaking of this epistle of Cyprian to Cornelius and confuting Dormans argument taken out of it for the Popes supremacie whiche is grounded vpon this place Non aliunde haereses obortae sunt c. Concerning the auoyding and quieting of schismes and troubles in the Churche VVe saye that as the seuerall Kings of euery kingdome the seuerall gouernours of euery countree and cittie c. are able to ouersee their seuerall charges and to keepe their people in ciuill order and peace so are the seuerall Byshops of euery Diocesse and the seuerall chiefe Prelates of euery Prouince able to auoide or to appease if they ryse al Schismes and troubles ecclesiasticall as S. Cyprian out of whome this reason is borowed and falsely wrested by them to an other purpose doth most plainely teach saying thus Cum statutum sit omnibus nobis c. What call you chiefe prelates of euery Prouince Be they not Archbyshops Likewise fol. 60. 61. in the same booke speaking of this and such like places he saith And further whatsoeuer M. Dorman eyther out of Deutero ▪ or any other place of Scripture doth vntruely apply to the proofe of the Supremacie of one head to witte the Byshop of Rome the same doth S. Cyprian M. Dormans owne vsuall witnesse euerie where alleage for the proofe of the superiorite of euerie Byshop in his owne Diocesse and for the obedience due vnto him there he doth neuer apply it as doth M. Dorman to the Supremacie of one Byshop ouer all other but rather against such supremacie of one it agreeth very well with the estate of the lewes that as they beyng one nation had one chiefe Prieste so is it good lykewise that euery Christian nation haue their chiefe Priest or Byshop it agreeth not that bycause the Iewes one nation had one highe Prieste to gouerne them in doubtes therefore all nations throughout the worlde shoulde haue one high Priest ouer all other for not onely the vnlikelyhood betwene these two but the impossiblitie of the latter is most euident The words of M. Foxe in that place speaking against the Papisticall interpretation M Foxe Tom. 1. fol. 93. of Cyprians wordes be these when their meaning is otherwyse howe that euery one catholike Church or Diocesse ought to haue one Byshop ouer it whyche also iustifyeth my interpretation For if it be vnderstanded of one Byshop ouer one Diocesse then is it in lyke maner of one Archbyshop ouer one Prouince For the reason is all one and you denie them both alike For you would haue no Bishops but in seueral Parishes Nowe therefore you sée that euen these authors whom you would abuse against me doe make wholy and fully against you and with me For they confesse the two places of Cyprian to be ment of Cornelius and of himselfe who were both Archbyshops and Metropolitanes and had ample iurisdiction especially Cyprian as I haue declared And M. Fexe hymselfe Tom. 1. Fol 21. sayth that the sea of Rome was a Patriarchall Idem sea appoynted by the primitiue Church and the Bishop therof an Archbishop limited within his owne bordering Churches so that the one place beyng ment of Cornelius Archbyshop of Rome the other of Cyprian Archbyshop of Carthage for so they were in déede though they were not in those places so called S. Cyprian may well be sayde in both places to speake of an Archbyshop though he expresse not his name And that which is there spoken of
not mentioned in the scriptures but also manifestly oppugned it is to bold hard a speech that I say no more to et the petegree of the Archbishop from the Apostles times and from the Apostles themselues Io. Whitgifte I must answere you still as Zuinglius answered the Anabaptists in the like obiection and as I haue answered you before the Papists make their traditions necessarie vnto saluation and therefore they are to be reiected bicause the worde of God conteyneth all things necessarie to saluation I make those offices part of decencie order Ecclesiasticall gouernment and pollicie whiche admitteth alteration as the tymes and persons require and are not particularly expressed in the Scriptures no more than diuerse other things be in the same kinde as I haue prooued before And that this may séeme no straunge matter or any thing fauouring the Papists vnwritten verities you may call to remembrance that which M. Caluin sayth of such traditions Caluine vpon these wordes 1. Cor. 11. Quemadmodum tradidi vobis instituta tenetis I do not denie sayth he but that there were some traditions of the Apostles not written c. as I Tract 2. haue before recyted speaking of Ceremonies not expressed in the worde And you may sée that wise and learned men are not so scrupulous in Apostolicall traditions not written so that they be not such as are made necessarie vnto saluation neyther is any learned man of contrarie iudgement And therefore Archbishops may well be brought from the Apostles tymes without any daunger of admitting the vnwritten verities of the Papists You haue not yet proued that eyther the name or office of Archbishoppes is in any respect oppugned in the worde of God and therefore that is but feyned Chap. 3. the. 27. Diuision T. C. Pag. 81. Sect. 1. But all this time M. doctor hath forgotten his question which was to proue an Archbishop whereas all these testimonies which he alledgeth make mention onely of a bishop therefore this may rather confirme the state of the bishop in this realme than the Archbishop But in the answere vnto them it shal appeare that as there is not in these places so much as the name of an Archbishop mentioned so except only the name of a Bishop there shall be founde very little agreement betwene the Bishops in those dayes and those which are called Bishops in our time and with vs. Io. Whitgifte M. Doctor remembreth that the Authours of the Admonition aswell denie the office of a Bishop as the office of an Archbishop and hée is not ignorant that the proofe of the one is the confirmation of the other and therefore he vseth suche testimonies as perteyne to them both of the whiche nature those places be that he hath hitherto alledged For you muste vnderstande that I spake before of the name and nowe according to my promise I speake of the office whiche is not so farre distant from the Bishops but that in moste things they be confounded But let vs nowe heare how you performe your promise Chap. 3. the. 28. Diuision T. C. Pag. 81. Sect. 2. And consequently although M. doctor thought with one whiting boxe to haue whited two walles by establishing our Archbishop and Bishop by the same testimonies of the fathers yet it shall be plaine that in going about to defend both he left both vndefended Io. Whitgifte Wordes of pleasure too too vsuall with T. C. but of smal weight God be thanked and of lesse truth Chap. 3. the. 29. Diuision T. C. Pag. 81. Sect. 2. 3. Let vs therfore come first to examine Ieromes reasons why one must be ouer the rest for in the testimonie of men that is onely to be regarded which is spoken either with some authoritie of the scripture or with some reason grounded of the scripture otherwise if he speak without either scripture or reason he is as asily reiected as alleaged One sayth he being chosen to be ouer the rest bringeth remedie vnto schismes how so least euery man sayth he drawing to himselfe do breake the Church in pieces But I would aske if the Church be not in as great daunger (*) Here you cōfound a monarchie and a tyrannie when all is done at the pleasure and iust of one man and when one carieth all into error as when one pulleth one piece with him an other another piece the third his part also with him And it is (a) Not so if tha one do gouerne by lawe harder to draw many into an error than one or that many should be caried away by their affections than one which is euident (b) Your similitudes hold not in water which if it be but a little it is quickly troubled and corrupted but beeing much it is not so easily But by this ecclesiasticall Monarchie all things are kept in peace Nay rather it hath bene the (c) Vntruth cause of discorde and well spring of most horrible schisme as it is to be seene in the very decretals Decret par 2. c. 9. q. 3. can Apost 33. alibi passim themselues (d) A good tor for contentio And admit it were so yet the peace which is without truth is more execrable than a thousande contentions For as by stryking of two flintes togither there commeth out fyre so it may be that sometymes by contention the truth which is hidden in a darke peace maye come to light which by a peace in naughtinesse and wickednesse being as it were buryed vnder the ground doth not appeare Io. Whitgifte Ierome being a man of such singular learning and great credite among those that be learned in a matter of Hystorie as this for hée reporteth when one Byshop was T. C. descredueth the author whom he cannot answe e. placed ouer the rest and for what cause is more to be beléeued withoute reasons than you with all your popular and friuolous arguments Let the reader againe consider whether this be your maner or no by vaine reasons to shake the credite of the authour when you cannot otherwise answere The reasons that you vse for the popular or Aristocraticall gouernment of the Church when they come among the people will be easily transferred to the state of the common weale and peraduenture bréede that misliking of ciuill gouernment that you would now haue of Ecclesiasticall to a further inconuenience and mischiefe than you and all yours will be able to remedie In the meane time you vtterly ouerthrow T. C. ouer he 〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 ecclesiasti all the Quéenes authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters giuen vnto hir by the lawes of God as hereafter shall be proued For if the state must eyther be popular or Aristocraticall then must there be no one supreme gouerner in Church matters but I wil come to your reasons First you aske whether the Churche be not in as great daunger when all is done at the pleasure and lust of one man and when one carieth all
well gouerne a prouince or diocesse and vse the heipe of Archdeacons Chauncellors c. but so cannot the Pope doe whole Christendome what helpe or deputies soeuer he haue If agaynst your will you were constrayned to make such comparisons why do you make Difference betwene the Pope and our Archbishops them when there is no cause why do you forge that which is vntrue why do you ioyne togither offices which in no poynt are like The Pope chalengeth authoritie ouer all Christendome so do not our Archbishops The Pope exalteth himselfe aboue Kings and Princes so do not our Archbishops but with all reuerence acknowledge their subiection to the Prince The Pope sayeth that to be subiect vnto him is of necessitie to saluation so do not our Archbishops The Pope maketh his Decrées equall to the woorde of God our Archbishops thinke nothing lesse of theirs To be short the Pope oppresseth and persecutetth the Gospel they earnestly professe it and haue suffered persecution for it Therefore your comparison is odious your riotous speach more presumptuous than becommeth a man pretending your simplicitie Your good opinion conceyued of them is well vttered in your booke what spirit hath taught you thus to dissemble surely euen the same that hath falsified Scriptures and wryters in your booke that hath vttered so many prowde and contemptuous speaches agaynst your superiours that hath moued you to make contention in the Churche euen spiritus mendax spiritus arrogantiae superbiae a lying spirite the spirite of arrogancie and pryde for such frutes cannot procéede from any other spirite Chap. 3. the. 34. Diuision T. C. Pag. 82. Sect. 3. 4. But Ierome sayth that this distinction of a Bishop a minister or elder was frō S. Marke his tyme vnto Dionysius time whereby M. Doctor would make vs beleeue that Marke was the author of this distinction but that cannot be gathered by Ieromes wordes For besides that things being ordered then by the suffrages of the ministers and Elders it might as it falleth out oftentimes be done without the approbation of S. Marke the wordes from Marke may be rather taken exclusiuely to shut out S. Marke and the time wherein he liued than inclusiuely to shut him in the tyme wherein this distinction rose Howsoeuer it be it is certayne that S. Marke did not distinguishe and make those things diuers which the holy ghost made all one For then which the Lord forbid he should make the storie of the Gospell which he wrote suspected Io. Whitgifte This is no answere to Ieromes woordes but a dallying with them the place is euident he sayth from the time of Marke the Euangelist whom vndoubtedly he would not haue named vnlesse the same manner had bene in his time But be it that the wordes from Marke be taken exclusiuely which no man of Iudgement will graunt yet doth it argue a great antiquitie of this distinction euen from the moste pure and best time of the Churche It is certayne that these thinges were not otherwise distinguished than the holy Ghost had appoynted and therefore your for then c. is an vngodly collection and vnbeséeming your person in any respect to imagine of the glorious Gospell written by that holy Euangelist Chap. 3. the. 35. Diuision T. C Pag. 2. Sect. 5. Againe it is to be obserued that Ierome sayeth it was so in Alexandria signifying thereby An absurde collection that in other Churches it was not so And indeede it may appeare in diuers places of the auncient fathers that they confounded Priest and Bishop and tooke them for all one as Eusebius out of Ireneus calleth Ani ete Pius Telesphorus Higinus Xystus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lib. 5. 16. De dignitate sacerdotali Elders and presidents Cyprian confoundeth Priest and Bishop in the Epistles before recited so doth Ambrose in the place alledged before by M. Doctor and yet it is one thing with vs to be a priest as M. Doctor speaketh and an other thing to be a Bishop Io. Whitgifte This argument passeth of all that euer I heard Ierome sayth there was a Bishop The passing Logike of T. C. in Alexandria aboue the other ministers from S. Markes time therefore there was no Bishop in any place else God is the God of Abraham Isaac and Iacob Ergo he is no bodies God else he is the God of the Iewes Ergo not of the Gentiles There be Bishops in England Ergo there are none in any other place No marueyle it is though you riot in your Logike when such stuffe is set abroad Like vnto this are the other Eusebius out of Ireneus calleth Anitete Pius Telesphorus c. elders and presidents and Cyprian confoundeth Priest and Bishop and so doth Ambrose Ergo euery Priest is such a Bishop as Ierome here speaketh of These be pretie argumentes Euery Bishop is a Priest but euery Priest hath not the name and title of a Bishop Difference betwixt byshop priest Hieronymus ad Euagrium in that meaning that Ierome in this place taketh the name of a Byshop For his woordes be these Nam Alexandriae à Marco Euangelista vsque ad Heraclam c. At Alexandria from Marke the Euangelist vntill Heracla and Dionysius Bishops the ministers alwayes chose one from among themselues and placing him in a higher degree of dignitie called him a Bishop as if an armie should make a Captayne ▪ c. Neyther shall you finde this woorde Episcopus commonly vsed but for that Priest that is in degrée ouer and aboue the rest notwithstanding Episcopus be oftentimes called Presbyter bycause Presbyter is the more generall name so that M. Doctor sayth truely that it is with vs one thing to be a Byshop an other thing to be a priest bycause euery Bishop is a Priest but euery Priest is not a Bishop I know these names be confounded in the Scriptures but I speake according to the manner and custome of the Church euen since the Apostles time And this is not onely my opinion but other learned men affirme it in lyke manner as M. Bucer in his booke De regno Christi and vpon the. 4. Ephes. Whose woordes I haue before rehersed Thus you sée that M. Doctors distinction is with better authoritie cōfirmed than you haue any to ouerthrow it Chap. 3. the. 36. Diuision T. C. Pag. 82. Sect. vlt. Ierusalem was a famous Church so was Rome as the Apostle witnesseth so was Antioche Rom. 1. and others where also were great contentions both in doctrine and otherwise and yet for auoyding of contention schisine there there was no (*) An vntruth one that was ruler of the rest Therfore we ought rather to follow these Churches beyng many in keping vs to the institutiō of the Apostles than Alexandria beyng but one Church and departing from that institution if there had bene any one set ouer al the rest in other places it would haue made much for the distinctiō that Icrome had
eos quos baptizauerat c. After that euery one did think those to be his not Chri stes whom he had baptized it was decreed throughout the whole world that one of the ministers being chosen should be set ouer the rest vnto whome the whole care of the churche should aperteyn and the seeds of schismes be taken away Do you thinke y t this is ment of the Pastor of euery towne To what purpose shoulde Ierome saye so For the pastor of euery seueral towne had from the beginning his a thorite ouer his flocke without any such constitution Moreouer there are not in euery seuerall congregatiō many pastors or priestes ouer whom one shold be placed as chief But Ierome speaketh of a Bishop that must gouerne the other Priestes and procure that vnitie bée kept among them and therfore his iurisdiction must of necessitie extend to many parishes bicause it is ouer many pastors He sayth lykewise that the care of the whole was cōmitted vnto him In his epistle ad Euagrium he vttereth his meanyng as plainly For he sayeth That the Priests did choose one among themselues whome they placing Idē ad Eu gr in a higher degree called a Bishop Wherby it apeareth y t he had authoritie ouer many Pastors and therfore ouer many congregations for you will not denie but that euery presbyter that is minister of the worde had his seuerall flocke This he declareth more euidently by the examples there vsed of souldiers choosing their Captain for though the Captain before was a common souldiour yet now being hus preferred he ruleth and gouerneth the reste of the souldiers euen so the Bishop being before a minister equall with other yet being chosen to that degrée he is their guide and gouernoure a gouernour I say of those that did elect him that ist of Priests or ministers therfore of diuers congregations This dothe yet more euidentely appeare in these woordes of the same Epistle That one was afterwardes chosen to rule the reste it was a remedie against schismes least euerie one drawing to himselfe the Churche shoulde breake the same And in his booke Ibidem Idem contr Lucifer contra Luciferianos he sayeth that except the chief authoritie were giuen to one tot essent schismata quot sacerdotes there would be as many schismes as priests By which places it is certain that Ieromes meaning is to haue some one in a prouince or dioces ouer the rest proprely called a Bishop who should haue chief authoritie least euery man in his owne seuerall parish being permitted to do what he list might in the end fyll the Church with schismes vt tot essent schismata quot sacerdotes And surely it is vnpossible to expounde Ierome otherwise But you aske me what this helpeth for the Archbishop c very much For if it be so necessarie to haue one Bishop ouer diuers Priests in euery seuerall dioces for the auoyding of schisme and cōtention it is also necessarie in euery prouince to haue an archbish p for the direction of diuers Bishops the auoyding of schisme amōg them And therfore sayth Ierome again in his epistle ad Rusticū monachū euerie ecclesiasticall Hiero ad Rusticum order is subiect to hir gouernours You aske what could haue ben brought more strong to pull downe the Archbishop out of his throne than that which Ierom sayth there when he affirmeth that the bishop of the obscurest village or hamlet hath as gret authority dignitie as the bishop of Rome I answer that this nothing at alderogateth frō the Archbishop For it is not denied but that euery bishop euery minister are equal quoad ministerium but not quoad ordinem politiam this is that which Ierome saith eiusdem sunt meriti sacerdotij they be of the same merite and priesthod y t is their ministerie office in preaching the word administring y e sacraments is al one And their authoritie also toward such as were vnder their iu isdiction Metropolitanes c. in Ierome his tyme. but he doth nor say y e one Bishop hath not more ample large iurisdictiō thā the other for the contrarie of that is manyfest And in S. Ieroms tyme there wer Metropolitanes Archbishops c. as you may read in the defe se of the Apol. edit 2. pag. 121. These obscure townes doe derogate nothing from the authoritie of a bishop for we see it oftentimes come to passe y t the Bishops seate is but in obscure towns as it is in diuers places of England yet is the bishops iurisdiction in his dioces no whit the lesse If we respect the places Canterburie is far inferior to London And therefore Ieroms meaning is y t the place neither addeth any thing or taketh any thing away from the worthinesse authoritie and office of a Bishop Wheresoeuer a Bishop is in citie or in towne he is of the same authoritie and worthinesse Erasmus in his Scholies vpon that epistle of Hierome hath these words Certè Metropolitanus Erasmus habet aliquid dignitatis c. Surely the Metropolitane hath some dignitie iurisdi tion aboue the other bishops therfore that he here maketh the Bishops of base cities equal with the rest it is to be referred vnto the deacons which in some places were preferred before the ministers whom he doth in a maner make equall with Bishops And in an other place he sayeth that the ministers succede into the place of the Apostles the Byshop into the place of Christ. In this thing therefore are Byshoppes and ministers equall that wheresoeuer they are they are to be preferred before Deacons Here Erasmus speaketh in good earnest howsoeuer he iested before He she weth that these obscure villages or hamlets as you terme them were cities and no doubt as good as eyther Ely or Peterborough but in the respect of Rome contemptible as these be in respect of Lontō And yet the Bishops of euery one of them eiusdem meriti sacer dotij of the same merite priesthood authoritie Erasmus also here telleth in what respect he hath made this cōparison betwixt Bishops and other ministers in the respect of Deacons For both Bishops Priests are to be preferred equally before Deacons bicause of their ministerie office which is aboue the office of a Deacon Nam ex Diacono ordinatur presbyter For a minister or priest is made of a Deacon not ex presbytero diaconus the Deacon of the priest It is most euident neither can it be so vnknown vnto you y e Ierome in al these places meaneth to haue one bishop gouernour of many priests And therefore this interpretation of yours is without all probabilitie or shadow of truth that Hieromes meaning is to haue suche a Bishop in euery towne I trust the reader will note with what vaine reasons you first went about to shake The shift of T. C. in his answer to Hierom. the credit of this wryter Then
how without reason you tooke vpon you to answer his reasons and now in the ende how vnpossible an interpretation you feine of his words which if he well consider he shall note in you great audacitie smal iudgemēt and no truthe For the author is of greate learning and worthynesse his reasons strong and his wordes playne and euident for the authoritie of the Bishop ouer the rest of the Cleargie Chap. 3. the 3. 9. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 71. Sect. 2. 3. Chrysostome writing vpon the twentieth of Mathevve sayth that Chrysostome the rebellious nature of man caused these distinctions of degrees that one should be an Apostle an other a Bishop an other a minister an other a lay man And that vnlesse there vvere suche distinctions of persones there coulde be no discipline And vpon the. 13. to the Romaines he sayth that bicause equalitie engēdreth strife contētion therfore superioritie and degrees of persons were appoynted T. C. Page 83. Sect. 1. What is that to the purpose that Chrysostome sayth there must be degrees who denyeth that there are degrees of functions we confesse there is and ought to be a degree of pastors an other of Doctors the third of those which are called Elders the fourth of Deacons And wher he saith there should be one degree of Byshop an other of a minister another of the lay man (*) It proueth that there are degrees among ministers of the word which you denie what proueth that for the office of an Archbyshop whiche is your purpose to shew how often times must you be called ad Rhombum and that he meaneth nothing lesse than to make any such difference betwene a byshop and a minister as is with vs whiche you woulde fayne make your reader beleeue I will send you to Chrysostome vpon the third chapter 1. Epistle to Timothie wher he saith the office of a byshop differeth little or nothing from an Elders and a little after that a byshop disierreth nothing from an Elder or minister but by the ordination only Still M. Doctor goeth forward in killing a dead man that is in confuting that whiche all men condemne and prouing that which no man denye h that there must be superioritte amongst men and that equalitie of all men alike confoundeth all and ouerthroweth all Io. Whitgifte Chrysostome in that place maketh degrées in the ministerie and placeth the Bishop in degrée aboue the minister which vtterly ouerthroweth your equalitie As for your distinction of degrées it hath a small grounde in the scripture to warrant it as can be and in déed it is but your owne inuētion For the Pastor doctor and elder in office are all one as the most best writers thinck Howsoeuer it is you haue them not thus distinguished in the Scripture that the Pastor should be firste the Doctor next the Elder third the deacon last and it is strange that you will inuent a new order of ministers without the expresse warrant of Gods worde misliking the same so muche in other This superioritie that Chrysostome talketh of ouerthroweth that part of the Admonitiō that I confute for they do not only disallow the office of the Archbishop but of the Bishop also would haue a mere equalitie amōg the ministers this I refel as well as the other and indéede the ouerthrow of this is the ouerthrow of the other And therefore this place of Chrysostome serueth my turne very well and aptly Chrysostom vpon that 3. chapter of the first to Timothie giueth asmuch superioritie to the Bishop as I doe and maketh asmuch difference betwixt him and the minister for I graunt that quoad ministerium they be all one but y t there be degrees of dignitie and so sayth Chrysostom that there is little difference betwixta Byshop and a priest but that a Byshop hath authoritie to ordaine priests and all other things that the Byshop may do the priest also may do that excepted so that Chrisostome here speaketh only of the ministerie of the Byshop not of his authoritie in the ecclesiasticall gouernment for of that he spake in the place before alledger where he sayth that In 20. Math. there is one degree of the Byshop and other of the minister c. which distinction of degrées was long before Chrysostomes time as I haue declared To proue these degrées of superioritie among ministers is to proue y e which both the Admonition you denie which is the grounde of this controuersie therfore I haue not herein gone about to kill a dead man except you count the grounde of your assertion dead If there must be superioritie amongst men and that equalitie of all men alyke confoundeth all and ouerthroweth as you confesse and is most true then equalitie of ministers confoundeth all among them and therefore it is requisite that in that state also there be supe iours to auoyde confusion whiche being graunted what haue you to saye eyther against Archbishops or Bishops except you haue some newe deuise of your owne which is not vnlyke bicause nothing doth please you but your owne Chap. 3. the. 40. Diuision T. C. Pag. 83. Sect. 2. This is a notable argument there must be some superiour amongst men ergo one minister must be superior to an other again ther must be in y e ecclesiastical functions some degrees ergo ther must be an archbishop ouer y e whole prouince or a Bishop ouer y e whole dioces And albert M. Doctor taketh great paine to proue y t which no man denieth yet he doth it so 〈◊〉 and so vn itly as that i a man had no better proofes than he bringeth the degrees of y e ecclesiasticall functions might fal to the ground For here to proue the degrees of the ecclesiastical functions he bringeth in that that Chrysostome sayth there muste be magistrate and subiecte him that commaundeth and him that obeyeth Io. Whitgifte The argument is good foloweth verie wel For as superioritie gouernment is Superioritie conuenient among ministers necessarie in al other states degrees of men so is it in y e ministerie also for ministers be not angels nor they are not of y t perfection y t they may safely be left in their own absolute gouernment That which Chrysostom in this place speaketh of gouernmēt in the ciuil state the same doth he speak in the. 13. to the Hebrues of y e ecclesias ical in lyke maner for expounding these words Parete his qui praesunt vobis c. whiche is vnderstood of Bishops he sayth that there be thrée euils which oue throw the church Chrysost. all other societies The first wherof is to haue no superiour none to rule and this he proueth by diuers examples as of a Quier without a Chaunter an armie of souldiours without a captaine a ship without a maister a locke of shéepe without a shepeheard Now if superioritie be so needfull among the clergie then why may not one
neyther can you declared before out of the Scriptures h we vayne a disrinction it is and it appeareth out of Cyprian that as all the Bishops were equall one to another so he sayth that to euerie one was giuen a portion of the Lords flock not only to feed with the worde and sacraments but to rule and gouerne not as they which shal make any accompt vnto an archbishop or be iudged of him but as they which can not be iudged of any but of God And Ierome vpon Cituz sayth that the elder or minister (c) But you con 〈◊〉 that which foloweth did gouerne and rule in common with the Bishops the Churche wherof he was elder or minister Io. Whitgifte The distinetion quoad ministerium quoad ordinem tustisyed Caluine Beza Lib. con cap. 7 art 12. The distinction is good and true allowed of the best writers though the Papists wrongfully applie it M. Caluin vpon the 2. Cor. 10. hath the same distinction Quamuis sayth he commune sit omnibus verbi ministris idemque officium sunt tamen honoris gradus Although there is one office cōmon to al the ministers of the word yet are there degrees of ho nour M. Beza likewyse lib. conf cap. 7. saith thus that pastors in proces of time wer distinct into Metropolitanes Bishops and those we now call curates it was not in therespect of the ministerie of the worde but rather in respecte of iurisdiction and discipline Therefore concerning the office of preaching the vvorde and administrating the Sacramentes there is no difference betwixt Archbishops Bishops and curates c. The same distinction doth Hemingius vse in his Enchiridion 〈◊〉 the. 72. 〈◊〉 of this chapter as shall be seene hereafter What say you now is this a starting hole or rather a true distinction allowed by such as are far frō Papistrie except you wil accuse M Caluine and Beza for Papists You are not able to improue this distinction with all the learning you boast of and bitternesse of words will not carie away the matter You haue declared nothing tending to the improuing of this distinction the wordes both of Cyprian and of Hicrom do manifestly confirme it for they both would haue one chief among the ministers to gouerne the rest as it is said before You deale corruptly in reciting Hieroms words for you haue left out his purpose and meaning I wil set them down as they be in déed Idē est ergo presbyter c. VVherfore the minister Heir ad Tit. 1. and bishop are al one and before that through the instinct of the deuil there were diuisions in religion and that it was sayd among the people I hold of Paule I of Apollo and I of Cephas the churches were ruled in cōmon by the coūcell of the ministers But after that euery one accompted those whom he baptized to be his and not Christes it was decreed thorowout the whole world that one being chosen from amōg the ministers should be placed ouer the rest to whom the whole care of the church should appertein and the seedes of schismes be taken away Wil you not leaue off to deale thus guilefully with your Reader haue you no care to deale plainly and simply Ierome in that place verifieth this distinctiō and she weth that it was for order policie that among the ministers there was one bishop apointed ad quē omnia ecclesiae cura pertineret schismatū semina tollerētur And what can be spoken more directly to the purpose But one thing here I note that you wold be controlled of none but of God that is you would be exempted from all authoritie of man euen as the Pope himselfe is Chap. 3. the. 43. Diuision Answere to the Admonition Pag. 72. Lin. 4. And therfore wel saith M. Caluin in his Institutions cap 8. that the Caluine alloweth superioritie twelue Apostles had one among them to gouerne the rest it was no maruel sor nature requireth it and the disposition of man wilso haue it that in euery companie although they be al equal in power yet that there be one as gouernour by whom the rest may be directed there is no Courte without a Consul no Senate without a Pretor no Colledge without a Presidente no societie vvithout a maister Haec Caluin T. C. Page 84. Sect. 3. After foloweth M. Caluin a great patron forsoth of the Archbishop or of this kinde of bishop which is vsed amongst vs here in England And here to passe ouer your strange citations quota tions which you make to put your answerer to pain sending him sometimes to Musculus common places for one sentence to Augustins works to Chrysostoms works to Cyril to M. Foxe here sending him to y e. 8. chapter of y e Institutiōs (*) as though you had neuer red Caluins institutions but tooke she sentence of some body else withoute any examination whereby it seemeth that you were loth that euer any man should answer your booke letting I say al this passe what maketh this eyther to prone that there should be one Archbyshop ouer all the ministers in the prouince or one Byshop ouer all in the diocesse that amongst twelue that were gathered togyther into one place there was one which ruled the action for which they mette Io. Whitgifte A practis wor thy the noting This is to be obserned throughout your whole booke as I haue noted in other places that when any authoritie is alleadged that pincheth you then you fall to cauilling by and by I haue no where referred you to Iustinians code to Gratians decrees to Augustines works to diuers councels to Theodorete to the centuries c. Without noting eyther booke Chapter distinction number Canon or such like as you vsually deale with me and yet these be farre more tedious to reade ouer than is the. 8. Chap. of Caluines Institutions I do not remember that I referred you to Augustine Chrysostome or any other writers for any matter in controuersie Cyrill Museulus and M. Foxe onely in one place excepted but I quoted the places as particularly as I coule And why will you then so vntruly report of me vndoubtedly I neuer red a booke for the quantitie of it so pestered with slanderous reportes false accusations and contentious deriding speaches as this your booke is But let it go Diuers editions of Caluines institutions This booke of institutions which is distinguished into Chapters and not into bookes I red and noted thorough before you as it shoulde seeme knew whether there were any such booke or no and bycause I haue laboured in it noted it and am well acquainted with it therefore I vse it and follow it and so will I do still Neyther are you ignorant I am sure that there be sundry editions of those institutions although you séeme to dissemble the matter in this place I mighte say of purpose for you haue answered after your manner places before out of the
the whole scope of the Epistle and the playne and euidente wordes of the texte for what is this but to giue Timothie superioritie and gouernment ouer the other Ministers of Ephesus to saye vnto hym aduersus presbyterum Agaynst a Minister receyue no occusation c and as thys authoritie of Iudgement is not onely gyuen vnto Timothie but to all Byshops of like callyng so that also of teachyng that godlynesse is profitable to all thyngs c. perteyneth to all Ministers of the worde generally and not to Timothie alone This is onely the difference that the firste is common to Timothie wyth all other Byshops of like iurisdiction the other common to him with all other ministers of the worde You knowe that euery Pastor or other Minister of the worde hath not other Pastors and Ministers of the worde vnder hym that it maye be sayde vnto hym aduersus presbyteros c. as it is here sayde to Timothie for I haue proued before that presbyter dothe signifie the Ministers of the worde and Sacramentes and shall haue occasion to speake more of it hereafter You saye that there is an hundreth suche things in the Epistles of Timothie and Titus ▪ I thinke that there is not one hundreth seuerall preceptes in all the thrée Epistles These stoute and hyperbolicall bragges wyth so manyfest resisting of the playne sense and meanyng of the Scriptures argueth an euill conscience and a mynde so addicted to errour that it will not be reformed Manye things in these Epistles perteyne to all Christians many things be proper to Byshops suche as Timothie was and many common to all Ministers But this aduersus presbyteros ▪ c. muste néedes to proper be those that haue vnder them other Ministers committed to theyr gouernment which euery Pastor hath not Chap. 3. the. 58. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 72. Sect. 3. And Epiphanius Lib. 3. Tom. 1. contra Haeresim Aerij proueth Timothie his superioritie Epiphanius ouer the rest by this selfe same place T. C. Pag. 87. Sect. 3. As for Epiphanius * This is your practise to discredite the author that speaketh against you it is knowen of what authoritie he is in thys place when as by Aerius sides he goeth about to pricke at the Apostle ▪ whilest he goeth about to confute the Apostle which maketh a distinction and difference betwene those which the Apostle maketh one that is a Bishop and elder and to spare the credit of Epiphanius it were better lay that opinion vpon some Pseudepiphanius which we may doe not without great probabilitie seyng * Augustine sayth that the Ad quod vult deum true Epiphamus vttereth all after a storie fashion and doth not vse anye disputation or reasoning for the truth agaynst the falshood and this Epiphanius is very full of arguments and reasons the choise whereof M. Doctor hath taken Io. Whitgifte I haue not heard any probable reason alleaged of any why these bookes of Epiphanius The writings of Epiphanius contra 80. haereses not counterfeite should be suspected whether they be his or no seeyng they be both learned and very auncient mentioned also of sundry olde writers But to omitte all other proofes I wyll onely vse the iudgement at this tyme of the authors of the Centuries who are to be credited in suche matters bycause they haue diligently and carefully laboured in them their opinion of these bookes of Epiphanius Cent. 4 cap. 10. is thys Nunc de scriptis c. Nowe we wyll speake of hys bookes of the which that worke against Cent. 4. cap. 10. the foure score heresyes is most noble which booke he hymselfe in his Epistle to Acacius and Paulus Ministers And in his booke called Anacephaleosis calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Of the which writing Augustine in his booke ad quod-vult-deum maketh this mention Our Epiphanius Byshop of Cyrus sayth he which dyed not long since speaking of foure score heresies wrote also himselfe sixe Bookes making mention of all things after an Historicall maner disputing nothing either against the falsehood or with the truthe They be but short bookes and if they were all made in one yet were it not to be compared to ours or to diuerse other mens bookes in length Out of the which words it is euident that Augustine neither had nor at any time dyd see that worke which Epiphanius intituled Panarium for Epiphanius is very long in recountyng the historie as concerning the beginning the endeuour countrey of the heretikes the occasiō of the heresie the successe increase and suche lyke throughout euery heresie Then is he very long in confuting and condemning the heresies by true Scriptures and the interpretation of them wherfore it should seeme that Augustine had belyke onely the arguments prefixed before the Tomes of bookes of Epiphanius whiche he dothe therefore call shorte bookes or at the least had his booke called Anacephaleosis which is the summe of his worke called Panarium Cornarius that writeth Cornarius the Preface before this booke of Epiphanius is of the same iudgement and addeth these wordes VVherefore eyther Augustine dyd not see this worke of Epiphanius or the right worke of Augustine is not extant but loste or else Augustine dyd not in deede performe that whiche he promised I can reade of none that doubteth whether these bookes were Epiphanius his or no. And certaynely this kinde of answering is nexte the worst especially when it is vsed agaynst suche approued authors And bicause all men may vnderstande what Epiphanius wordes and reasons be Aerius here sie in denying the difference betwixt a Be shop priell ▪ Epi. li. 3. 〈◊〉 haeres 75 ▪ whiche in déede pinche you very néere for he calleth you heretikes I will declare them as I haue there founde them First he setteth downe the heresie of Aērius in these words His talke was more outrageous than becōmed a man and he sayd what is a Bishop to a Priest he nothing differeth from him for there is but one order and the same honor and dignitie The Bishop layeth on his handes and so dothe the Priest the Bishop ministreth baptisme and so dothe the priest the Bishop sayth diuine seruice and so doth the Priest the Bishop sitteth in his throne and so dothe the Priest In this he hathe deceyued many and they vse him for their captayne Then dothe he a little after confute this heresie with Aerius reasons on this sorte To saye that a Bishop and a Priest is equall howe can it be possible for the order of Bishops is the begetter of fathers for it ingendreth fathers to the Churche the order of Priests not beeing able to beget fathers dothe beget sonnes to the Churche by the sacrament of Baptisme but not fathers or teachers and howe is it possible for him to ordeyne a Priest not hauing imposition of hands to electe or to saye that he is equall with a Bishop but phantasticalnesse and emulation deceyued the
foresayde Aërius he proueth his errour aud the errour of those that heare him by this that the Apostle writte to Priests and Deacons and dyd not write to Byshops And to the Bishop he sayth neglect not the gifte that is in thee whiche thou hast receyued by the handes of the Presbyterie And agayne in another place he writeth to Bishops and Deacons wherefore sayth he a Bishop and a Priest is all one and he knoweth not whiche is ignorante of the sequele of the truthe and hathe not read profounde stories that when the preaching was but newely begonne the holy Apostle writte according to the state of things as they were then for where there were Bishops appoynted he writte to Bishops and Deacons for the Apostle coulde not by and by at the first appoynte all things for there was neede of Priests and Deacons bicause by those two ecclesiasticall matters maye be complete And where there was not any founde worthy a Bishopricke there the place remayned without a Bishop but where there was neede and worthy men to be Bishops there were Bishops appoynted And when there was not so many that there coulde be founde amongst them meete to be Priests they were content with one Bishop in an appoynted place but it is vnpossible for a Bishop to be without a Deacon and the holy Apostle had a care that Deacons shoulde be where the Bishop was for the ministerie So dyd the Churche receyue the fulnesse of dispensation suche was then the state and condition of the places For euery thing had not the perfection from the beginning but in processe of time those things whiche were necessarie to perfection were added c. The Apostle teacheth who is a Bishop and who is a Priest when he sayth to Timothie that was a Bishop chide not a Priest but exhorte him as a father what should a Bishop haue to doe not to chide a Priest if he had not authoritie aboue a Priest As he also sayth agayne agaynst a Priest admitte no accusation sodenly without two or three witnesses and he sayde not to any Priest admit no accusation agaynst a Bishop neyther did he write to any Priest that he shoulde not rebuke a Bishop Thus mayest thou sée good Reader that it is not for nought that T. C. so stormes agaynst Epiphanius and so vnreuerently vseth him But I wyll giue him as muche cause to deale in like maner with Augustine who August ad Quod-vult in this matter fully ioyneth with Epiphanius and in that booke of his de haeresibus ad quod-vult-deum quoted by T. C. in his margent attributeth this also as heresie to the sayde Acrius adding that the cause of this and other of his heresies was bicause he himselfe was not made Bishop Chap. 3. the. 59. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 72. Sect. 4. That this worde presbyter in this place of the Apostle signifieth a minister of the worde bothe Ambrose Caluine and other learned writers declare T. C. Page 87. Sect. 4. And whereas M. Doctor citeth Ambrose Caluine and other godly wryters to proue that the minister is vnderstanded by the worde Elder or Presbyter he keepeth his olde wonte by bringing stickes into the wood and prouing alwayes that which no man denieth and yet with the minister of the worde he also vnderstandeth the Elder of the Churche whiche ruleth and dothe not labour in the worde But therein is not the matter for I doe graunt that by Presbyter the minister of the word is vnderstanded yet nothing proued of that which M. Doctor would so fayne proue Io. Whitgifte I adde this interpretation that the Reader may vnderstande Timothie to haue authoritie ouer Bishops and Ministers of the worde least you by cauilling shoulde shifte off this place with your signification of Seniors whiche were not ministers of the worde as you say All this whyle haue I looked for the performance of your promise to proue that That Timothie was Bishop Timothie and Titus were no Bishops But bicause I perceyue that you are content to forget it I will héere perfourme mine least I fall into the same faulte with you repeating only that which I haue before added to my answere in the 2. edition least I shoulde put the Reader bothe to coste and paynes in searching for it there First therefore that Timothie was Bishop of Ephesus the whole course of the 1 The course of the Epistle two Epistles written vnto him declareth wherein is conteyned the office and duety of a Bishop and diuers precepts peculiarly perteyning to that function as it is manyfest neyther were those Epistles written to Timothie for the instruction of other onely but for the instruction of him selfe also as the whole course of bothe the Epistles doe declare and all learned expositours confesse Secondly the subscription of the seconde Epistle is this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2 The subscrip tion The seconde Epistle was written from Rome to Timothie who was ordeyned the first Bishop of the Churche of Ephesus when Paule appeared before the Emperour Nero the seconde time Whiche althoughe it be lefte out in some Gréeke Testamentes yet is it in the moste the best and the auncientest yea almoste in all neyther is this a sufficient answere to saye that the subscription of some one or two Epistles séeme to be vntrue therefore this is vntrue For the subscription as it is no doubt of great antiquitie so is it consonant to al olde auncient authoritie Thirdly the vniuersal consent of histories conclude him to be Bishop at Ephesus 3 Consent of hystories Eusebius lib. 3. cap. 4. saythe that Timothie was the first Bishop of Ephesus Dorotheus who lyued in Dioclesians time wryteth that Paule made him Bishop of Ephesus Nicephorus lib. 2. cap. 34. sayth that Paule made him Bishop of Ephesus before he writ his first Epistle vnto him Hierome in catalog scripto Ecclesi sayth that he was made Bishop of Ephesus by Paule Isidorus de Patribus noui Testamenti sayth also that he was Bishop of Ephesus Antoninus parte 1. titulo 6. cap. 1. affyrmeth the same oute of Polycrates So dothe Supplementum chroni So dothe also Volaterane lib. 20. where he calleth him Praesulem Ephesinum And all the Histories that I haue read whiche make any mention of him Historia Magdel centu 1. lib. 2. cap. 10. in vita Ioan. Euang. hathe these words Constat Paulum Ephesinae ecclesiae Timotheum dedisse pastorem It is certayne that Paule appoynted Timothie Pastor of the Churche of Ephesus Surely it is the generall consente of all hystories that Timothie was Bishop of Ephesus Fourthly the fathers affirme the same 4 Content of fathers Dionisius Areopagita so called of some men who liued in the Apostles time wryteth his booke De diuinis nominibus to Timothie Bishop of Ephesus Epiphanius lib. 3. tom 1. affirmeth that Timothie was Bishop of Ephesus Ambrose sayth the same in his Preface to the first Epistle written to Timothie Chrysostome in
his argument of the same Epistle giueth this reason why Paule of all his Disciples writte onely to Timothie and Titus bicause he had committed to them the gouernment and care of the Church and the other he carried about with him The same Chrysostome vpon the fourth to the Ephe. speaking of Pastors and Doctors vseth Timothie and Titus for an example Occumenius like wise vpon the fourth to the Ephe. calleth Timothie and Titus Bishops And vpon 1. Timoth. 1. he sayth that Paule ordeyned Timothie Bishop of Ephesus And in the fifth Chapter vpon these words Manus citò nemini imponas he sayth Mandat de ordinationibus Episcopo enim scribebat he giueth preceptes of ordeyning for he wrote to a Bishop Theodoret vpon the first to Timothie affirmeth in playne words that Timothie had cure of soules committed vnto him But to be shorte there is not one olde writer whiche speaking of this matter doth not testifie that Timothie was Bishop of Ephesus Last of all I proue him to be Bishop there by the consent of the late wryters 5 Consente of late writers Erasmus in his annotations sayth that Paul made him Bishop so sayth he likewise in his Paraphr 1. Timoth. 4. Pellicane sayth the same 1. Tim. 1. Zuinglius in his booke called Ecclesiastes sayth directly that Timothie was a Bishop ▪ Bucer sayth the same writing vpon the. 4. chapter of the Epistle to the Ephe. Caluine vpon 1. Tim. 1. calleth him Pastor of the Churche of Ephesus And in the 1. Timoth. 4. expounding these words Ne donum quod in te est c. he sayth Spiritus sanctus oraculo Timotheum destinauerat vt in ordinem pastorum cooptaretur The holy Ghost by oracle did appoynt Timothie that he should be chosen into the order of Pastors And in the. 2. Timoth. 4. sayth that he did excell Vulgares pastores common Pastors meaning that he was an excellent Pastor indued with more singular and notable giftes and of greater authoritie than the common sorte of Pastors be And in the same chapter speaking of Paules sending for Timothie from Ephesus to Rome he saythe That there was no small cause why Paule sent for Timothie from that Churche which he ruled and gouerned and that so farre off Heereby we may gather sayth he howe profitable conference is with suche men for it might be profitable to all Churches whiche Timothie might learne in a small time so that the absence of halfe a yere or a whole yere is nothing in comparison of the commoditie that commeth thereby And agayne in the same place he sayth That Paule sent Tichicus to Ephesus when he sent for Timothie to Rome in the meane tyme to supply Tymothies absence By all these places it is manyfest that Caluine taketh Timothie to be Pastor Bishop of Ephesus as I haue beforesayde Bullinger vpon these words also ne neglexeris quod in te est donum c noteth three things to be obserued in the ordering of a Bishop and proueth therby that Timothie was lawfully called to his Bishopricke And vpon these words 2. Tim. 1. Quamobrem cōmonefacio te vt suscites donum c. he sayth that per donū Dei Paule vnderstandeth the gifte of Prophecying functionem Episcopalem the offyce of a Bishop to the whiche the Lord called Timothie but by the ministerie of Paule What can be spokē more playner Illyricus in his epistle dedicatorie to the newe Testament sayth that Paule praysed Timothie his Bishop and in his Preface to the epistle written to Timothie he calleth Timothie and Titus praestantes doctores multarumque ecclesiarum Episcopos Notable Doctors and Bishops of many Churches Of the same iudgement is Musculus and all the rest of the late wryters that I haue read one onely excepted who notwithstanding in effecte confesseth also that he was Bishop at Ephesus for in his annotations 1. Tim. 4. vpon these words vsquedum venero c. he saythe that when Paule sente for the ministers of Ephesus to Miletum Acts. 20. he sent for Timothie especially Cuius ministros meaning of Ephesus ac proinde Timotheum inprimis Miletum accersiuit But it is manyfest Act. 20. that they were all Pastours and Bishops therefore Timothie was a Bishop The same author vpon these wordes 1. Timoth. 5. aduersus presbyterum c. sayth Timotheum in Ephesino presbyterio tum fuisse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Antistitē vt vocat Iustinus And addeth that it is manifest by Cyprian that the Bishop dyd rule in the Colledge of Seniors Then if he that was chiefe in the Colledge of Seniors was a Bishop and Timothie was chiefe in the College of Seniors it must néedes followe that Timothie was a Bishop But it maye appeare howe little learning and learned men be estéemed of those whiche to maynteyne contention are not ashamed to denie that whiche all learned men agrée vpon The chiefe reasons to the contrarie answered Their reasons as in number they be not many so in substance they be nothing I will recite the chiefe and leaue the rest to children to be discussed The first is taken out of the. 2. Ti. 4. where Paule sayth to Timothie Opus perage 1 The place 2. Tim. 4. answered The work of an Euāgelist Euangelistae do the worke of an Euangelist Their reason is this Paule biddeth Timothie do the worke of an Euangelist Ergo Timothie was not Bishop First therfore we must searche out what Opus Euangelistae is and then trie whether it be incident to the office of a Bishop or no. Bullinger vpon that place sayth that he doth the worke of an Euangelist which preacheth the Gospell purely and is not by any persecutions or aduersitie driuen from his calling Hemingius sayth that opus Euangelistae generally taken is to preache the Gospell Musculus in locis commun ticulo de verbi ministris sayth that he is Euangelista eyther that preacheth or that writeth the Gospel and that Paul in the first sense speaketh to Timothie saying opus fac euangelistae And in the same place among other things that Paule requireth of a Bishop he affirmeth this to be one vt opus peragat Euangelistae So sayth Illyricus likewise Zuinglius also is of the same iudgement in his booke called Ecclesiastes and proueth by that text of Paule that the worke of an Euangelist and of a Bishop is all one Nowe howe this reason dothe followe Paule did bid Timothie preache the Gospell purely and constantly Ergo Timothie was not a Bishop let euery man iudge The seconde reason is taken out of the. 4. to the Ephe. Et ipse dedit alios quidem Apostolos 2 The place Ephe. 4. answered alios verò Prophetas alios autem Euangelistas alios autem pastores ac doctores He therfore gaue some to be Apostles and some Prophetes and some Euangelistes and some Pastors and Teachers The reason is framed on this sorte An Euangelist and a Bishop were distincte offices and coulde not be bothe ioyned in one But
Timothie was an Euangelist Ergo he was not a Bishop This argumente is very féeble in euery The maior false parte For first the maior is vtterly false for those offices named by Paule were not so distinct but that diuers of them may concurre in one man as maye easily be proued Paule was an Apostle and also a Doctor 2. Timoth. 1. Matthew and Iohn béeing Apostles were also Euangelists as the consent of al writers doth testifie Timothie was according to M. Beza his iudgement both an Euangelist and also a prophet Looke his notes in the fourth chap. of the first to Timothie Zuinglius in his booke called Ecclesiastes sayth that an Euangelist is nothing else but a Bishop or a pastor as it is manyfest sayth he by the wordes of Paule whiche he speaketh to Timothie saying opus fac Euangelistae and Timothie at that tyme when Paule writte this Epistle vnto him was a Bishop And therefore it is certayne that according to Faule his sentence the office of an Euangelist and of a Bishop is all one These be the very words of Zuinglius Bullinger expounding this place in the fourth to the Ephe. hath these words There is no man whiche seeth not these names to be confounded and one to be taken for an other for an Apostle is also a Prophete a Doctor an Euangelist a Minister and a Bishop and a Bishop is an Euangelist and a Prophet A Prophet is a Doctor a Minister and an Euangelist Therefore the Apostle Paule by these sundrie names dothe signifie these diuers giftes which God hath bestowed vpon his Churche to saluation And in that he so often vseth this disiunction alios atque alios he hath signified that all giftes are not giuen to one man but that diuers men haue diuers giftes of the spirite wherof he hath spoken more in the. 12. to the Rom. and the. 1. to the Cor. 12. chapter Hitherto Bullinger Pellicane in the same place is of the same iudgement These offices therefore or giftes maye well concurre in one man so that the maior is false and this conclusion followeth not Timothie was an Euangelist Ergo he was no Bishop The minor which is this Timothie was an Euangelist is very doubtfull For The minde doubtfull first it may be doubted what an Euangelist is The common opinion of old writers and also of diuers late writers is that those were properly called Euangelists which writte the Gospels Other say that he is an Euangelist whiche preacheth the Gospell Some say that he was an Euangelist that was occupied in teaching the people playnly and simply Caluine and some other thinke that they were next vnto the Apostles in degree and helpers of them and suche as supplied their office oftentimes Diuers other opinions there are of Euangelists and scarse two agree in one opinion touching the office of an Euangelist The moste saye whiche also the etymologie of the name dothe importe that those were Euangelistes whiche eyther preached or writte the Gospell Sainct Augustine in his seconde booke contra Faustum Manichae wryteth héereof on this sorte Narratores originis factorum dictorum passionum domini nostri Iesu Christi propriè dicti sunt Euangelistae They are properly called Euangelistes which are the declarers of the birthe deedes sayings and sufferings of our Lord and sauiour Iesus Christ Which may be done both by preaching and writing the Gospell as I sayde before Now if Timothie be an Euangelist bicause he preached the Gospell there is no cause why he may not be a Bishop also And it is certayn that when Paule sayd vnto him do the worke of an Euangelist he ment the preaching of the Gospell If an Euangelist be taken in any other significatiō how can it be proued that Timothie was an Euangelist For this proueth it not fac opus Euangelistae a man may do the worke of an Euangelist though he be not an Euangelist a man may doe the worke of a pastor though he be not a pastor To be short the conclusion is not necessarie howsoeuer the premisses be true for The conclu sion not necessary although it should be graūted that bothe the maior and minor were true yet the conclusion dothe not followe for Timothie might first be an Euangelist and after a Bishop as Zuinglius in his booke called Ecclesiastes sayth That Philip the Euangelist beeing a Deacon was afterwarde Bishop and pastor of Cesarea Iames the yonger beeing an Apostle as Hierome and all the olde fathers doe testifie was after Bishop of Ierusalem and there remayned and dyuers of the Apostles when they lefte off going from place to place became in the ende Bishops and remayned in one place as it appeareth in olde hystories So that although one man could not be bothe an Euangelist and a Bishop at one time and if it be graunted that Timothie was an Euangelist yet doth it not proue but that he was a Bishop also But certayne it is that one man at one time might be both an Euangelist and a Bishop and most certayne it is that Timothie was a Bishop howe certayne soeuer it be whether he were an Euangelist or no. But héere it may be sayde that Timothie no more returned to Ephesus after he had bin the seconde time with Paule at Rome and therefore not to be like that he was B shop there This argumente is onely coniecturall and of no force to proue any suche matter Howbeit if we will credite stories wherby in such cases we must be directed it is certayne that Timothie returned to Ephesus there dyed Dorotheus sayth that he died at Ephesus and was there buried Polycrates testifieth that he was stoned to death at Ephesus Isidorus in his booke de Patribus noui Testamenti writeth that he was buried at Ephesus in the mount Pyon Symeon Metaphrastes testifieth the same Nicephorus li. 10. ca. 〈◊〉 testifieth that Iulian the Apostara did tormēt one Artemius for translating the bones of Andrewe Luke and Timothie from Patra Achaia and Ephesus to Constantinople But it is certayne that Andrew was crucified at Patra by Aegeas the Proconsull and auncient writers testifie that Luke was buried in Achaia therfore the bones that were brought from Ephesus must néedes be Timothies Héereby it may appeare that Timothie not onely returned from Rome to Ephesus but also continued there euen to his death And therefore certayne it is that he was Bishop at Ephesus But nowe to my purpose Chap. 3. the. 60. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 72. Sect. vlt. Ignatius who was S. Iohn his scholer and lyued in Chrystes Ignatius time in his Epistle ad Trallianos speaketh thus of the authoritie of a Bishop ouer the reste Quid aliud est Episcopus quà m quidam obtinens principatum The bishops uthoritie potestatem supra omnes VVhat is a Bishop but one hauing povver and rule ouer all And in his Epistle ad Smyrnenses he writeth on this sorte Honora quidem Deum vt
authorem vniuersorum Dominum Episcopum autem vt Sacerdotum Principem imagi em Dei ferentem Dei quidem per Principatum Christi verò per Sacerdotium Honor God as the author and Lorde of all thinges and a Bishop as the chiefe of Priestes bearing the Image of God of God bicause of his superioritie of Christ by reason of his Priesthoode And a little after Let laye men be subiecte to Deacons Deacons to Priests and Priestes to Bishops the Bishop to Christ. And agayne Let no man doe any thing vvhiche perteyneth to the Churche vvithout the consente of the Bishop And agayn He that attēpteth to do any thing vvithout the Bishop breaketh peace and confoundeth good order The like saying he hath in his Epistle ad Magnesianos These three Epistles doth Eusebius make mention of Lib. 3. cap. 35. 36. and Hiero. de viris illustribus T. C. Pag. 87. Sect. 4. It is no maruell although you take vp the authors of the Admonition for wante of Logike for you vtter great skill your selfe in writing whiche keepe no order but confounde your Reader in that thing which euen the common Logike of the countrey which is reason might haue directed you in for what a confusion of times is this to beginne with Cyprian and then come to Ierome and Chrysostome and after to the Scripture and backe agayne to Ignatius that was before Cyprian which tymes are ill disposed of you and that in a matter wherin it stoode you vpon to haue obserued the order of the tymes Io. Whitgifte Be patient a whyle the matter is not great the Authors be knowne and the The order ob serued in placing the authorities in y e answere antiquitie of them my mynde is of the matter and there is reason why I should thus place them Cyprian telleth the necessitie of suche superioritie and so dothe Chrysostome Hierome the cause and the originall Paule Timothie and Titus be examples hereof Ignatius and the rest are brought in as witnesses of the continuance of such offices and superioritie in the Churche euen from the Apostles Now first to proue the name of these offices not to be Antichristian then to shew the necessitie of the offices thirdly the cause and last of all to declare the vse of the same to haue bene in the Churche euen from S. Paules time to this houre is to kéepe a better order than you shall be able to disorder with all the Logike Rhetorike and hote Eloquence you haue Chap. 3. the. 61. Diuision T. C. Pag. 87. Sect. 4. But as for Ignatius place it is sufficiently answered before in that which was answered to Cyprian his place for when he sayeth the Bishop hath rule ouer all he meaneth no more all in the prouince than in all the world but meaneth that flocke and congregation whereof he is Bishop or minister And when be calleth him Prince of the priests although the title be to excessiue and big condemned by Cyprian and the councel of Carthage yet he meaneth no more the prince of all in the diocesse as we take it or of the prouince than he meaneth the Prince of all the priestes in the world but he meaneth those fellow ministers and elders that had the rule and gouernment of that particular Church and congregation whereof he is a Bishop as the great churches haue for the most part both Elders which gouerne only and ministers also to ayde one an other and the principalitie that he which they called the Byshop had ouer the rest hath bene before at large declared Io. Whitgifte You very lightly shake of Ignatius wordes but they haue more pyth in them if it please you better to consider of them For he maketh degrées of ministers and the Bishop to be the chiefe he placeth Deacons vnder Priests and Priests vnder Bishops so that he giueth to the Bishop superioritie and gouernment ouer both Priests and Deacons which is the grounde of this cause and it being graunted as it muste néedes neyther can this authoritie of Ignatius be auoyded Aerius Heresie falleth and so doth your whole assertion What is ment by Prince of Priests Ignatius himselfe declareth saying Obtinens principatum potestatem supra omnes hauing chieftie and power ouer all How this name may be wel vsed I haue shewed before where I haue also declared the meaning of Cyprians woordes vttered in the hereticall Councell of Carthage and therefore not coumpted in the number of those Councels Chap. 3. the. 62. Diuision T. C. Pag. 88. Sect. 1. 2. But M. Doctor doth not remember that whylest he thus reasoneth for the authoritie of the Bishop he ouerthroweth his Archbyshop quite and cleane For Ignatius will haue none aboue the Bishop but Christ and he will haue an Archbishop I see a man cannot well serue two masters but eyther he must displease the one and please the other or by pleasing of one offend the other For M. Doctor would fayne please and vphold both and yet his proo es are such that euery proppe that he setteth vnder one is an axe to strike at the other Io. Whitgifte I remember it very well and I know that an Archbishop is a Bishop and that therfore there may be superioritie among Bishops and yet nothing detracted from the woordes of Ignatius I know likewise that as well the one as the other is cōdemned by you and I am well assured that the proofe of the one is the proofe of the other and therfore M. Doctor may well serue two masters but they be such as be not onely not contrary one to the other but so néerely linked and ioyned togither that what soeuer pleaseth the one doth also please the other M. Doctors proppes and proofes are such as M. T. C. is compelled to vse railing flouting in steade of answering which is a shift but how honest and Christian let the world iudge Chap. 3. the. 63. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 73. Sect. 1. Iustinus Martyr one of the most auncient writers of the Greekes Iustine Martyr in his second Apologie ad Antoninum Pium alloweth this superioritie calleth him that bare rule ouer the other ministers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 T. C. Pag. 88. Sect. 2. But that M. Doctor deliteth alwayes where he might fetch at the fountayne to be raking in ditches he needed not to haue gone to Iustine Martyr for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when as S. Paule calleth 1. Tim. 5 ▪ the ministers and Elders by this title And if this place of Iustine make for an Archbishop then in steade of an Archbishop in euery prouince we shall haue one in euery congregation For Iustine declareth there the leyturgie or manner of seruing God that was in euery church vsed of the Christians And I pray you let it be considered what is the office of that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 see whether there be any resemblance in the world betweene him and an Archbishop For he placeth his office to be in
preaching in conceyuing prayers in ministring of the sacraments of any cōmaundement which he had ouer the rest of the ministers or of any such priuiledges as the Archbishop hath he maketh not one worde It may be that the same might haue the preheminence of calling the rest togither and propounding the matter to the rest of the companie such like as is before declared As soone as euer you founde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you snatched that by and by and went your wayes and so deceyue your selfe and others But if you had read the whole treatise you should haue found that he was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the people for thus it is written in the same Apollogie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Afterward bread is brought to the president of the brethren calling the people as S. Paule doth continually brethren And therefore these are (a) Nay they are yours and like to the rest M. Doctors arguments out of Martyrs place There was a minister which did stand before or was president of the rest in euery particular Church and congregation therefore there was an Archbishop ouer all the prouince And agayne there was one which ruled the people in euery congregation therfore there was one that ruled all the ministers throughout the whole prouince And albeit things were in great puritie in the dayes that Iustine liued in respect of the times which followed (b) Antiquum obtinet yet as there was in other thinges which appeare in his workes and euen in the ministration of the Sacraments spoken of in that place corruption in that they mingled water and wine togither so euen in the ministerie there began to peepe out some thing which went from the simplicitie of the gospell as that the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which was common to the Elders with the ministers of the worde was as it seemeth appropriated vnto one Io. Whitgifte Though notable famous doctors be ditches with T. C. yet are they pleasant and cleare riuers with men of more liberall sciences S. Paule 1. Timoth. 5. hath these woordes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. which derogate nothing frō any thing that I haue alleaged but iustifieth the same for there it signifieth rule gouernment but yet in Iustine it signifieth some one that had the chiefe rule and gouernment ouer the rest as M. Beza noteth vpon these woordes 1. Ti. 5. Aduersus presbyterum c. Praeterea Beza notandū est ex hoc loco Timotheum in Ephesino Presbyterio tum fuisse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 id est Antistitem vt vocat Iustinus Furthermore it is to be noted out of this place that Timothie in the presbyterie or colledge of ministers at Ephesus was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say the prelate or Bishop as Iustinus calleth it You may say vnto him as wel as to me that he deliteth where he might search at the fountayne to be raking in ditches bycause he might haue had the same wordes spoken of all ministers in the same chapter of that Epistle to Timothie Furthermore that Iustinus Martyr doth vse this worde for him that hath authoritie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ouer ministers aswel as ouer the people Idem ouer the rest not only of the people but of such also as be presbyteri the same M. Beza testifieth vpon the first to the Philip. saying Haec igitur olim erat Episcoporum appellatio donec qui politiae causa reliquis fratribus in caetu praeerat quem Iustinus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vocat peculiariter dici Episcopus coepit This therefore was the common name of Bishops vntill he which for pollicie sake did gouerne the rest in the cōpany whom Iustine calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 began to be called peculiarly a Bishop In which words M. Beza testifieth that he whom Iustinus called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did gouerne as well the other ministers as he did the people And whosoeuer doth duely consider Iustines woordes peruse that whole place he shall easily vnderstand that those whom he there calleth Brethren were ministers Deacons for afterward speaking of the people he calleth them by the name of people as it is there to be séene I know that Iustine speaketh of their manner of liturgie but that doth not improue any thing that I haue affirmed for I speake of the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in that signification that Iustine doth vse it which is for one that doth gouerne the rest Wherefore this is my Argument there was one among the ministers in Iustines time that did rule and gouerne the rest Ergo there was then superioritie among the ministers of the Churche and one was aboue an other which is the ouerthrow of your ground of equalitie at the which I shoote and the which beyng ouerthrowne the superioritie of Bishops and Archbishops is soone proued And agayne I say that in Iustines time there was one that gouerned the rest of the ministers Ergo there may be one to do the same now in like manner These be my reasons as for yours they be lyke to the rest of your owne But your best refuge is to discredite the Author which you do in Iustine as you haue done in the rest There is no antiquitie of any credite with you no not in in a matter of Historie as this is For Iustinus doth but declare the manner vsed in the Churche in his time It is well that in the ende you confesse this name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to signifie in Iustine the authoritie of one minister This bycause you are constrayned to acknowledge you will do it with nipping and biting the Author after your manner Ignatius who was before Iustine as you haue heard vseth a more loftie woorde for he doth call him Princeps Sacerdotum the Prince or chiefe of Priests Chap. 3. the. 64. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 73. Sect. 1. Cyrillus calleth him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Cyrill T. C. Pag. 88. Sect. 3. An other of M. Doctors reasons for to proue the Archbishop is that Cyrill maketh mention of an high priest where vnto I answere that he that bringeth in a priest into the church goeth about to burie our sauiour Christe for although it might be proued that the worde Priest were the same with the Grekes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet as shall appeare in his place is the vse of this worde priest for a minister of the Gospell very daungerous And as for him that bringeth in an high prieste into the Churche he goeth about to put our sauiour Christe out of his office who is proued in the Epistle to the Hebrues to be the onely high priest and that there can be no more as long as the world endureth And yet if all this were graunted you are not yet come to that which you desire to proue that is an Archbyshop For if you looke in (*) In what booke ▪ Theodoret you shall finde this worde 〈◊〉
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth the high priesthood to be nothing else but a byshopryke and in the seuenth chapter of that booke and so forth diuers tymes you shall haue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 taken for a Bishop as speaking of the councell of Nice he sayth that there was 318. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 high priests Now I thinke you wil not say there were 318. Archbishops if you do you are confuted by all Ecclesiasticall wryters that euer I read which speaking of them calleth them Byshops Io. Whitgifte This name Priest is vsuallly applied to the minister of the Gospell in all Histories fathers and wryters of antiquitie And the most of the latest writers do vse it and make no great serupulositie in it neyther doth the name Priest burie our Sauiour Christe as long as it is vsed for a minister of the Gospell neyther is there any daunger in it at all as long as the office is lawfull Not onely Cyrill vseth this name high Priest but Tertull. also in his booke De Tertull. Baptismo where he sayeth that Episcopus is summus sacerdos The Bishop is the hie Prieste and in lyke manner Theodorete as you here say and yet none of them ment to derogate any thing from the office of Christe I told you before how names proper to Christe may be also attributed to men this beyng graunted I haue as much as I desire for as the Bishop is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the respect of other Priestes that be inferiour vnto him so is the chiefe Bishop called Archiepiscopus in respect of other Bishops that be gouerned and directed by him And as among the ministers there is one chéefe which is called a Bishop so among the Bishops there is one chéefe also that is called an Archbishop and this is that ordo that Augustine speaketh of as I haue sayd in my Answere to the Admoni ion in the woordes of M. Foxe Chap. 3. the. 65. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 73. Sect 2. Theodoretus li. 5. ca. 28. wryteth that Chrysostome beyng the Bishop Theodoret of Chrysostome of Constantinople did not onely rule that Churche but the Churches also in Thracia in Asia and in Pontus T. C. Pag. 88. Sect 4. Chrysostome followeth which as M. Doctor sayth ruled not only the church of Constantinople but the churches of Thracia Asia Pontus and he sayeth it out of Theodorete But herein it may appeare that either M. Doctor hath a very euill conscience in falsifying writers and that in the poynts which lie in controuersie (*) Or els you plucke your self by the nose or els he hath taken his stuffe of certaine at the second hand without any examination of it at all For here he hath set downe in steade of had care of the churches of Thracia c. ruled the churches the Greke is (a) The wordes of Theodoret clipped 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is translated also prospexit so that it appeareth he fetched it neyther from Theodorete in Greeke nor in Latine And what is this to proue an Archbishop that he had care of these churches there is no minister but ought to haue care ouer all the churches thorough christendome and to shewe that care for them in comforting or admonishing of them by writing or by visiting them (b) What scrip ture expresseth these conditions and cautions ▪ if the necessitie so require and it is thought good by the churches and leaue obteyned of the place where he is minister vpon some notable and especiall cause being some man of singular giftes whose learning and credite may profite much to the bringing to passe of that thing for the which he is to be sent After this sort * As it ap peareth by diuerse epistles of his S. Cyprian being in Afrike had care ouer Rome in Europe and wrote vnto the church there After this sorte also was Ireneus Bishop of Lions sent by the french Churches vnto the churches in (c) Vntrue Phrygia and after this sorte haue M. Caluine and M. Bez bene sent from Geneua in Sauoy to the Churches of Fraunce Euseb. li. 5. cap. 3. 4. Io. Whitgifte It shall appeare God willing whether M. Doctors memory or yours be worse The falsifying of Theodoret returned vpon the Replier whether he hath an euill conscience in falsifying writers or you in slaundering of him whether he taketh his stuffe at the second hand or you rather that haue borrowed of other mē collections almost whatsoeuer you haue heaped togither in your booke All this I say shall appeare euen to trie your corrupt vntrue dealing in this place and certainely I cannot but maruell what affection hath so gotten the vpper hand of you that it prouoketh you to such outrage us speaches in a matter so manifestly counterfet If you haue not séene the Author I will ascribe it to negligent ignorāce but if you haue séene him I cannot ascribe it to any other thing than to vnsha efast malice The whole storie as it is in Theodoret is this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theodor. lib. 5. cap. 28. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Iohn the great hauing receyued the sterne of the Church reproued the iniuries of certaine boldly and counsayled the king and the Queene things c uenient and exhorted the Priest o walke according to the lawes appoynted But such as were not afrayde to breake them he suffered not to come to the table saying it was not meete that those should enioye the honour of Priestes which would not follow the conuersation of true Priestes And this care 〈◊〉 vsed not only ouer that citie but also ouer whole Thracia which cōteyneth six prouinces and ouer all Asia which is gouerned vnder eleuen rulers and moreouer he gouerned the Church of Pontus with these lawes in which coūtrie are as many rulers as in Asia First he sayth that Chrysostome tooke the stern or gouernmēt of the Church then that he did freely reprehend vice Thirdly that he commaunded the Priests to liue according to the lawes Fourthly that he did excommunicate and depriue of their priestly honour such as durst transgresse Is not this to rule what Archbishop in England doth execute greater iurisdiction Then it followeth immediatly in Theodor. and vvith this care he did prouide for or embrace not only his citie but the Churches of Thracia c. Where it is to be noted that Theodorete sayth with this care c. meaning that as he had the gouernment of the Church of Cōstantinople and did there reprehend vice cōmaunded the Priests to liue according to the lawes excōmunicate them that did not and put them from their office so did he also in the Churches of Thracia Asia and Pontus Theodoretes words be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. and you haue craftely left out 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that you might the rather cloke Theodoretes plaine meaning Besides this Theodoret sayth in playne woordes that he gouerned
late vnto the booke put foorth in the 〈◊〉 ▪ and vnder the credite of the Bishop of Sarisburie wherein I will say nothing of those 〈◊〉 sharpe w rds which are gyuen partly in the beginning when he calleth the propounders of the 〈◊〉 why h 〈◊〉 archebishops and archedeacons nouices partly in the ende when he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 children and the doctrine of (*) A shameless vn kedlye the Gospell wantonnesse c. If he had ly 〈◊〉 learning and grauittie and otherwyse good desertes of the Churche in defending the 〈◊〉 thereof agaynst the Papistes we could haue easily borne it at his hands nowe he is dead and 〈◊〉 vp 〈◊〉 peace 〈◊〉 were agaynst all humanitie to digge or to breake vp hys graue onely I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 t 〈◊〉 the consideration of the Reader vpon those things whiche are alleaged to iudge whether it or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 which is confirmed by so graue testimonies of the aun worke of God Io. Whitgifte If you doubt whether the Bishop of Sarisbury were the author of that half shéete of paper or no you may sée his owne hande writing If you call the words which he vseth there 〈◊〉 and sharpe what shall we thinke of yours we had néede terme them Serpentine or viperous or if there can be any other name that better expresseth such immodest contemptuous and scoffing spéeches Hypocrita quid vides fest 〈…〉 in oculo fratris tui c But what are these biting and sharpe wordes that he vseth forsoothe that he calleth the propounders of the proposition whych concerneth Archbishops and Archedeacons Why. T. C. scometh so muche at the words of the Bishop nouices and in the ende he calleth them children and their doctrine wantonnesse Oh these be byting and sharpe words but wouldest thou knowe good Reader whye T. C. taketh these wordes so gréeuously euen bicause they touche him selfe For the man is of that humilitie and patience that if there be neuer so little signification giuen of any vnskilfulnesse or lacke of learning in him selfe he roareth like a lyon swelleth like the sea for none of that faction can in any case abide to haue their learning touched The malicious nature of that faction and they will not sticke in commending them selues to deface all other yea euen that notable Iuell whose bothe labour and learning they doe enuie and among them selues depraue as I haue heard with mine owne eares and a number more besides For further proofe wherof I doe but referre you to the reporte that by this faction was spred of him after his laste Sermon at Paules crosse bicause he did confirme the doctrine before preached by a famous and learned man touching obedience to the Prince and lawes It was then straunge to me to heare so notable a Bishop so learned a man so stoute a champion of true religion so paynefull a Prelate so vngratefully and spitefully vsed by a sorte of wauering wicked wretched tongues But it is their manner except you please their humor in all things be you neuer so well learned neuer so paynfull so zelous so vertuons all is nothing with them but they will depraue you rayle on you backbite you inuentlyes of you and spred false rumors as though you were the vilest persons in the whole earth And consider whether T. C. be not euen nowe in that vayne for howe maliciously The Bishop maliciously staundered by T. C. doth he slaunder that so Reuerend Bishop saying that he calleth y e doctrine of the Gospell wantonnesse when he speaketh of their childishe and phantasticall deuises excepte all were Gospell that they speake or that commeth from them Pardon me thoughe I speake something earnestly it is in the behalfe of a Iuell that is contemned and defaced by contentious and vngratefull persons If it had pleased God to haue suffered him to liue vnto this day in answering this Replie he should no doubt haue proued his byting and sharpe wordes as they be called to be moste true But séeing that he is at rest and not héere to answere for him selfe though in respecte of him I am farre vnméete to intermedle in his doings yet in respecte of the cause and aduersarie I will be bolde to iustifie his answers Chap. 4. the. 2. Diuision ¶ The Iudgement of that Reuerende father Iohn late Bishop of Sarum auouched by his ovvne hande Archiepiscoporum Archidiaconorum nomina simul cum Nouitiorum assertio muneribus officijs suis sunt abolenda The first Reason God so loued the Churche that he lefte a perfect paterne orderly c. Eph 4. but there Prima ratio is named neyther Pope nor Archbishop nor Archdeacon The ansvvere of the Bishop of Sarisburie Hovve knovve you that the fourth chapter ad Ephe. is a perfecte patterne Eius solutio ▪ of all ecclesiasticall gouernment vve haue novve neyther Apostles nor The. 4. Eph ▪ no perfect plat forme of all ecclesiasticall gouernment Euangelistes nor Prophetes and yet are they the cheefe in that patterne neyther haue vve there eyther Bishop or Presbyter or Diaconus or Catechista or Lector and yet are these necessarie partes in ecclesiasticall gouernment Therefore that patterne is not perfect to holde for euer neyther vvere there then any publike Churches or Pulpits or Scholes or Vniuersities c. S. Paule nameth neyther Pope nor Archbishop I graunt and the Church is not gouerned by names but by offices Euery Bishop then vvas called Papa and Anacletus that vvas nexte after Peter if there be any weight in his vvords nameth Archbishops T. C. Pag. 91. Sect. 1. Unto the place of the. 4. of the Ephesians before alleaged he answereth cleane contrarie to that which M. Doctor sayth that we haue now neyther Apostles nor Euangelists nor prophets wherupon he would conclude that that place is no perfect patterne of the ministerie in the Church In deede it is true we haue not neyther is it needefull that we should It was therfore sufficient that there were once and for a tyme so that the wante of those nowe is no cause why the ministeryes there recyted be not sufficient for the accomplishment and full finishing of the churche nor cause why any other ministeries should be added besydes those which are there recyted Io. Whitgifte Not one worde contrarie to any thing that I haue spoken for I tolde you before Tract 4. cap. diuis 1. in what respect it maye be sayde these offices to remayne and in what respect they be ceased there is nowe no planting of Churches nor going throughe the whole In what respect Apostles c. be ceased worlde there is no wryting of newe Gospels no prophecying of thinges to come but there is gouerning of Churches visiting of them reforming of Pastors and dyrecting of them whiche is a portion of the Apostolicall function there is preaching of the Gospell expounding interpreting the Scriptures which be incident to the Euangelist Prophet Agaynst this no learned man
as I thinke speaketh But nowe to my Lorde of Sarisburie his argument whiche is this that from The Bishops argument the whiche somewhat muste be taken and vnto the whiche somewhat muste be added is no perfect patterne but Apostles Euangelistes Prophets are taken away from the fourth to the Ephesians and Deacons Elders as you your selfe say must be added Ergo it is no perfect patterne neyther do you neyther can you answere this argument But I will come to your accustomed shiftes Chap. 4. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Pag. 91. Sect. 2. Afterwarde he sayth that neyther Bishop nor Elder are reckoned in that place The pastor is there reckoned vp and I haue shewed that the pastor and Bishop are all one and are but dyuers names to signifie one thing And as for those Elders whyche doe onely gouerne they are made mention of in other places and therefore the Bishop and Elder are there conteyned whych thing also M. Doctor graunteth Io. Whitgifte If the Bishop be conteyned vnder the Pastor why may not the Archbishop be so likewise but if the Elders which you say do only gouerne be not there conteyned and yet a necessarie function in the Church as you thinke howe can it then be a perfecte platforme or why may not Archbishops Archdeacons be also necessarie thoughe they be not in that place named but you say that those Elders be in other places mentioned That is no answere to this place but a reason rather to proue it no perfect patterne M. Doctor graunteth a Bishop to be conteyned vnder the name of a pastor But he doth not graunt that your Elder is so or euery Presbyter to whome the ministerie of the worde of God and sacraments is committed to be a Pastor Chap. 4. the. 4. Diuision T. C. Page 91. Sect. 3. After that he sayth there is no Catechista if there be a pastor there is one which bothe can and ought to instruct the youth neyther (*) What say you to the Doctor dothe it perteyne to any other in the church and publikely to teache the youth in the rudiments of religion than vnto the pastor howsoeuer in some tymes and places they haue made a seuerall offyce of it Io. Whitgifte If a pastor and a Catechiste maye be in one why may not a Bishop and a gouernour Catechist and pastor distinguished also be one and so your Elders shut out of the doores But you may learne in auncient writers that the office of a Catechiste was necessarie in the Churche and distincte from the Pastor Origene was a Catechist in the Churche of Alexandria as Eusebius in his sixte booke dothe in sundrie places declare and yet he was not then a Pastor Chap. 4. the. 5. Diuision T. C. Pag. 92. Sect. 1. And where he sayth that there is neyther Deacon nor Reader mentioned for the Deacon I haue answered that S. Paule speaketh there onely of those functions which are occupied both in teaching and gouerning the Churches and therefore there was no place there to speake of a Deacon and as for the Reader it is no suche office in the Churche whiche the minister maye not doe (*) Where haue you scri ture for this geare And if eyther he haue not leasure or hys strength and voyce wyll not serue hym fyrst to reade some long tyme and afterwarde to preache it is an easy matter to appoynt some of the Elders or Deacons or some other graue man in the Church to that purpose as it hath beene practised in the Churches in tymes past is in the Churches reformed in our dayes without making any newe order or offyce of the ministerie Io. Whitgifte This distinction helpeth not héere for if you saye the offices or names of Deacons be lefte out in this place bicause Sainct Paule speaketh not of suche offices as be occupied onely in gouernment first I answere that the same maye be sayde of Archebisho s and Archedeacons who haue those names onely in the respecte of gouernment Secondly I tell you that the office of a Deacon is also to preache as is Tract 14. hereafter proued And last of all that the office of a Deacon especially as you restrayne it is neyther office nor name of gouernment but of simple and absolute ministerie and seruice Your starting holes will not hyde you and this argument of the Bishop will not he answered You haue sayde nothing to proue this place to be a perfecte paterne of all ecclesiasticall functions neyther doe you saye any thing for omitting the names of Bishop Deacon Presbyter c. but we may saye the same for the names of Archebishop Archedeacon c. The Reader hath béene counted a necessarie office in the Churche and is of great antiquitie and I knowe that the Deacon or any other graue person vpon occasion maye be admitted to reade But I pray you where do you finde any such thing in the scripture T. C. taketh greater libertie to himselfe than he will allowe to whole churches especially of those whiche you call Elders which be in no degrée of the ministerie for it is great presumption for you to appoynt any suche office in the Churche not hauing your warrant in Gods worde séeing you finde suche faulte with whole Churches for allowing offices vsed in the best time of the Churche confirmed by the best Councels and approued by all auncient writers bicause their names be not expressed in the scripture and séeing also that you your selfe a little before sayde that onely the pastor ought publikely in the Churche to teache the youth and not a Catechist and I take publyke reading in the Churche to be as solemne a matter as Catechising the youthe But you haue libertie to coyne what order you lyste without eyther Scripture or anye other approued wryter we muste make you another Pythagoras In times past it was a peculiar office and he that had it was called Lector and therefore you can not saye as it hathe beene practised in times past excepte you wyll confesse that name and office of Lector and so also graunte some name and office profitable for the Churche to be omitted in the fourthe Chapter to the Ephesians Chap. 4. the. 6. Diuision T. C. Page 92. Sect. 1. 2. Where he sayth that by this reason we should haue no Churches pulpits scholes nor vniuersities it is first easily answered that S. Paule speaketh not in the. 4. to the Ephesians of all thinges necessarie for the Church but only of all necessarie ecclesiasticall functions which do both teache and gouerne in the Churche and then I haue already shewed that there were both Churches and pulpits As for scholes and Uniuersities it is sufficient (*) I graunt but not out of the. 4. to the Ephe. commaundement of them in that it is commanded that both the Magistrates and pastours should be learned for he that commaundeth that they should be learned commaundeth those things those meanes wherby they
and they are to vveake to pull downe Stultitia nata est in corde pueri virga disciplinae fugabit illam Prouerb 22. It is but vvantonnesse correction will helpe it Thus haue I answered in his behalfe who bothe in this and other lyke controuersies might haue bene a greate stay to this Churche of Englande if we hadde bene worthie of him But whilest he liued and especially after his notable and most profitable trauailes he receiued the same reward of wicked and vngrateful tongues that other men be exercised with and all must looke for that will doe their duetie But nowe agayne to T. C. The causes of Archbishops and of their prerogatiues and the estate of the olde Bishops assigned by T. C. examined Chap. 5. the. 1. Diuision T. C. Pag. 94. Sect 4. Now I haue shewed howe little those things which M. Doctor bringeth make for proofe of that wherfore he alleageth them I will for the better vnderstanding of the reader se e downe what were the causes why the Archbishops were fyrst ordeyned ▪ and what were their prerogatiues and preheminences before other Bishops and the estate also of the olde Bishoppes which lyued in those tymes wherein although there were great corruptions yet the Churche was 〈◊〉 some tollerable estate to the intent it may appeare partly how 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we haue of them now partly also howe great difference there is betwene oures and them O the names of Metropolitanes it hath bene spoken howe that he shoulde not be called the chiefe o priests or the high priest or Bishop of Bishops Now I will set downe their office and power whiche they hadde more than the Bishoppes Io. Whitgifte If you haue no more truthe in your words folowing than y u vtter in the beginning of these or if you deale no soundlyer in them than you haue done in the other M. Doctors proofes shall serue the turne But it is in vayne to answere wordes I will therfore come to your matter Chap. 5. the. 2. Diuision T. C. Page 94. Sect. 5. In the Councel of Antioche it appeareth that the Bishop of the Metropolitane seat called (a) An vnt 〈◊〉 ▪ 〈◊〉 there is no suche thing in that much cano ▪ Chap. 9. Synodes propounded the matters which were to be handled c. The archbishop doth not ew call Synodes but the Prince doth forasmuche as there is no conuocation without a parliament and he dothe not propounde the matters and gather the voyces but an other chosen whiche is called prolocutor therefore in the respecte that an Archbishop and Metropolitane was tyrst ordeyned we haue no neede of an Archebishop or Metropolitane Agayne an other cause also appeareth there (b) An 〈◊〉 truthe whiche was to see that the Bishops kepte them selues within their owne di cesse and brake not into an others Diocesse but fyrste this maye be doone withoute an Archebishoppe and then it is not doone of the Archebishop himselfe giuing licences vnto the wandering ministers to goe thoroughout not so fewe as a dosen diocesse therefore the office of an archbishop is not necessarie in this respecte and if it were yet it muste be other than it is nowe Io. Whitgifte There is no Councell more flatte agaynst you than is that Councell of Antioche nor any Canon that ouerthroweth your assertion more directely than that ninth Canon the woordes whereof I haue repeated before but youre vntrue allegation in a manner compelleth me to repeate them agayne that the Reader may see before his eyes what truthe there is in your doings And although it do perteyne to the office of the Metropolitane or Archebishoppe to call Synodes yet is there not one woorde thereof in this Cannon nor yet of propounding any matters in Synodes or of seyng Bishoppes keepe themselues within theyr owne diocesse as you doe here auouche without all truthe and notwithstanding as I sayde before those things doe perteine to the office of the Archebishoppe yet if they were also comprehended in that Canon it were rather a confirmation of that office than otherwyse The contentes of that Canon be onely these firste it sayeth that it behoueth the Bishoppes of euery countrey or prouince to knowe theyr Metropolitane Bishoppe to haue the care and ouersighte or gouernment ouer the whole Prouince By the whiche woordes the authoritie and name of a Metropolitane or Archebishoppe is moste pl ynely confirmed and proued to be a permanent off ce Secondly this Canon willeth all those that haue any businesse to doe to resorte to the Metropolitane citie Whereby also is giuen to the Metropolitane Bishop greate preheminence and therefore it followeth immediatly that he shoulde excell all the reste in honour and that the other Bishoppes shoulde doe nothing of importance without him according to the olde rule made by their forefathers but onely those thyngs whiche perteyne to theyr owne diocesse and those places and possessions that perteine vnto the same In whiche wordes who séeth not what preheminence is giuen to the Metropolitane ouer all the Bishoppes in hys Prouince and what iurisdiction to the Bishop in his owne diocesse and places perteyning vnto it where also it is to be noted that the Councell sayeth secundiòn antiquam à patribus nostris regulam constitutam according to the auncient rule appointed of oure forefathers Whyche argueth a greate antiquitie of this office Then it followeth for euery Bishop hath authoritie ouer his owne Diocesse to rule and gouerne it iuxta reuerentiam singulis competentem accordyng to the reuerence due vnto euerie one of them and that he hathe especiall care of that whole region that i subiecte to his Citie so that he maye ordeyne Priestes and Deaeons singulasuo iuditio comprehendat But he may not attempt any other thyng without the Metropolitane Bishop nor the Metropolitane do any thing without the counsel of the other Priests What can bée more playne eyther for the authoritie of the Arche bishoppe or iurisdiction of the Bishop and what one worde of this Canon haue you truely alleadged and yet it is quoted in your margent But if we imagine those thinges to be true whiche you saye howe will you conclude forsooth that the Metropolitane did then call Synodes and propounded the matters but nowe he dothe not call Synodes and propounde the matters Therefore there is nowe no neede of a Metropolitane Firste it is vntrue that Metropolitanes did then call eyther all Synodes or that they called them of theyr owne authoritie without the consente of the Prince and Ciuill Magistrate whiche thing is euident when the Magistrates were christened The Councell of Nice was summoned by the commaundement of Constantine Co cels sum moned by Princes Euse de vita Constan lib. 3. the Emperoure Eusebius de vita Constanti lib. 3. Constantius called the Councell whyche was in Sardica ciuitate The Bishoppes in the Councell of Constanti confesse that they came together by the Emperoures wrytte Ambrose in the Councell of Aquileia speaking of him
〈◊〉 and of other Byshoppes sayeth that they were assembled oute at Aquileia by the commaundemente of the Emperoure The same dothe Hierome testifye concernyng a Councell holden at Rome In Epita Pauli Pope Iulio Epist. 9. ad Theodos. desyreth the Emperoure that by his authoritie there myghte be a Councell in Italye Zozomen libr. 6. cap. 7. sheweth howe certayne Catholyke Bishoppes intreated the Emperoure that they myght haue leaue to gather together for the redressing of certaine erroures But hat shall I neede to labour in a matter moste manifest No man can be ignorant that readeth Ecclesiasticall stories but that the Emperoures authoritie was r quired in summoning Councels and Synodes not only generall but prouinciall also Secondly it is vntrue that the Metropolitane in this Churche dothe not call Synodes or propoundeth not the matters in them c. For he dothe bothe althoughe he calleth no Prouinciall Synode withoute the commaund ment of the Prince no more than other Metropolitanes haue oone in the beste tyme of the Churche vnder christ an Princes Laste of all thoughe all thys were true that is éere vntruely affirmed yet were the office of an Archebishoppe necessarie for it dothe not onely consiste in calling Synodes but in sundrye thinges besyde as I haue shewed before and this councell of Antioche manyfestly declareth And surely yf you would proue any thyng hereof directely it s ould bée thys that eyth r the Archebishoppe dothe not exercyse that iurisdiction whyche he oughte to doe or else can not doe that whiche perteyneth to his office and so shoulde you speake for the amendement of the Archbishops iurisdiction Agayne you saye an other cause appeareth there whyche was to see that the Bishops kepte themselues within theyr owne diocesse c. but fyrst thys may be doone without an Archbishoppe c. I tell you there is no suche thyng in that nynthe Canon I say further that it maye beste an mos e orderly bée doone by an Archebis oppe Thirdely I answere as before that it is but one parte of his office Fourthely I saye vnto you that this is a symple Argumente the Archebishoppe dothe not kéepe suche olde Canons as bée not in vse in thys Churche therefore there is no neede of his office Laste of all you oughte to knowe that th se whom y u call wandering ministers be fai hefull Preachers a number of them And suche as laboure diligentely in preachyng the woorde and haue not a little profyted the flocke of Chryste so that youre conclusion is not woor h a strawe Chap. 5. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Pag. 95. Sect. 1. Agayne the cause why the Metropolitane differed from the reste and why the callyng of the Synode was gyuen to him as it appeareth in the same Councell was for that the Chap. 9. greatest concour e was to that place and moste assemblie of menne wherevnto also may be added for that there was the best commoditie of lodgyng and of vittayling and for that as it appeareth in other Councells it was the place and feare of the Empire But with vs neyther the greatest conc urse nor assemblie of men nor the greatest commoditie of lodgyng and vittayi g neyther yet the seate of the kingdome is in the Metropolitane citie therefore with vs there is no suche cause of a Metropolitane or Archebishop Io. Whitgifte This is not alleadged as a cause why there shoulde be a Metropolitane or why he differed from y e rest or why the calling of the Synode was giuen vnto hym but rather why he was placed in the chiefe citie so that these wordes touche not the Metropolitane or his office but the aptnesse of the place where he shoulde continue And yet if credite be to be giuen yther to interpreters or to the glosse in Gratian caus 9. quae 3. per singulas the wordes be not as you interprete them for thus they be set downe in the booke of Councels Tom. 1. Pr pter quod ad Metropolim omnes vndique qui negoti videntur habere concurrant For the which let all that haue any businesse haue recourse from all places into the Metropolitane citie An other ranslation is thus Propter quod ad Metropolitanam ciuitatem ab his qui causas habent con urratur And this last interpretation the authors of the Centuries do vse Cent. 4. Of whiche wordes there can be no suche thing gathered as you doe imagine but farre otherwise And the meaning of the Councell is that suche as haue causes to be heard may resort to the Metropolitane citie where the Metropolitane is And you must vnderstand that it was in the power of the Emperour and other Princes to appoint the seat of the Metropolitan where it pleased them as it appereth in the. 12. cap. of the Councel of Chalcedon and in the. 17. Hom. of Chrysostome Ad populum Antiochenum Chap. 5. the. 4. Diuision T. C. Pag. 95. Sect. 2. In the Councel of Carthage holden in Cyprians tyme it appeareth that no Bishoppe had authoritie ouer an other to compell an other or to condemne an other but euery Bishop was left at his owne libertie to answere vnto God and to make his accounte vnto Christe and if anye thing were doone against any Bishoppe it was done by the consent of all the bishoppes in the prouince or as many as coulde conuemently assemble Therefore Cyprian whiche was the Metropolitane bishop had then no authoritie ouer the rest and yet then there being no christian magistrate T C con esseth Cyprian to be a Metropolitane whych would punishe the disorders whiche were committed of the christian bishops there was greatest neede that there shoulde haue bene some one which myght haue had the correction of the reste If therefore when there was most nede of this absolute authoritie there neither was nor might be any suche it foloweth that nowe we haue a Christian magistrate which may and ought to punyshe the disorders of the Ecclesiasticall persons and may and ought to call them to account for their faultes that there shoulde be no suche nede of an Archbishop Io. Whitgifte You here fall into the same faulte that a little before you ascribed to me for you come backe from the Councell of Antioche whiche was Anno. 360. to the Councell of Carthage being Anno. 260. I omitte to tell you that that Councell concluded an heresie for the whiche only it was assembled And therefore though it be in the booke of the Councells yet is it not reckened among the Councels Only I demaund the woordes of that Councell that doe signifie one Bishoppe not to haue had authoritie ouer an other I tolde you before out of Cyprian himselfe and out of Gregorie Nazianzene that he had ample and large iurisdiction The wordes of Cyprian in that Councell whiche séeme to touche the matter you talke of I haue expounded and answered before they make not for your purpose It is no reason to proue that a Bishop muste not be subiecte to
Riches no impediment to godly men Wherein our Bishops may be compared with the olde Bishops his duetie And in suche externall thinges the condition of the time and state of the Countrie is to be obserued Lette our Bishoppes be compared with them in truthe of doctrine in honestie of life in diligent walking in theyr vocation and in knowledge I speake of the moste in bothe ages and I thinke the difference will not be so greate but that they maye bothe knowe one another and very well agrée among themselues this onely excepted that the doctrine of the Gospell is now much more purely professed by our Bishops than it was at that tyme by them for both the Councels are in sundrie poynts very corrupt Chap. 5. the. 18. Diuision T. C. Pag. 97. Sect. 2. In the same councell of Carthage it was decreed that no Bishop sitting in any place shoulde suffer any Minister or Elder to stande Nowe I will report me to themselues howe this is kept Can. 34. and to the poore ministers which haue to do with them and come before them Io. Whitgifte A poore quarell though this humilitie is to be required in all Bishops yet is it to be vsed with discretion for thus to deale with a proude and hawtie stomacke were but to giue nourishment to arrogancie and contempt It is méete that euerie man haue that honour and reuerence giuen vnto him which his place his office and his person requireth And as it is humilitie in him to remitte any part of it euen so it is an intollerable contempt and pryde for those that be inferiours so to looke for suche equalitie that in the meane tyme they refuse to doe that whiche ciuilitie good maners and duetie requyreth But let all men consider those notes and tokens of your hawtie stomackes and perswade themselues that it woulde not bée long before you woulde chalenge the same equalitie wyth other states and degrées in like maner Chap. 5. the. 19. Diuision T. C. Pag. 97. Sect. 3. The Bishoppes in tymes past had no tayle nor trayne of men after them and thought it a slaunder to the Gospell to haue a number of men before and behinde them And therefore is (*) He was reproued for vsing himselfe like a capitaine being accompanied with a garde of souldiours Paulus Samosatenus noted as one that brought Religion into hatred and as one that feemed to Euseb. 7. cap. 30. take delight rather to be a Capitaine of two hundred than a Bishop bycaus he had gotten hym a sorte of seruing men to waight on him An other example not vnlyke and lykewyse reprehended is in Ruffine of one (a) Gregorie for George Gregorie a Bishop Nowe in our dayes it is thought a commendation to Ruf. lib. 1. cap. 23. the Bishop a credite to the Gospell if a Bishop haue 30. 40. 60. or mo wayting of him some before some behinde whereof three partes of them set a part the carying of a dishe vnto the table haue no honest or profitable calling to occupie themselues in two houres of the day to the filling of the Churche and common wealth also with all kinde of disorders and greater incommodities than I minde to speake of bicause it is not my purpose Io. Whitgifte In Eusebius it is sayde that Paulus Samosatenus vsed to walke publikely in the market places reading letters and boasting himselfe being accompanied with a number 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is accompanied with spearemen and halbardes The example of P. Samo ▪ vniustly applied to our Bishops of Souldiours some before him and some behinde him more like to a Capitaine than a Bishop If any of our Bishops walke in the stréetes to be séene or stande in the market places or other open and publike assemblies reading of letters accompanied with Souldiours and men of warre then may it be truly sayde of them that is here truly spoken of Paulus Samosatenus But if they being farre from such vanitie kéepe that countenance and retinue of men which their place the maner of their Countrey the honour of the Prince the state of the Church requireth then doe you vncharitably and vniustly applie this example agaynst them But vnlesse Paulus Samosatenus had béene riche and wealthie howe coulde this pompe of his haue béene mainteyned Wherefore this example is rather agaynst you than for you neyther doth it condemne wealth and ryches in Bishops but pride vainglorie and lightnesse For they accuse him of spoyling the Church and thereby enriching himselfe In the example of George whom you all Gregorie mentioned in uffine there is no worde spoken of any seruing men or souldiours onely he is there reproued because he got his Bishoprike by violence and thought that the office of iudgement in Rufsin lib. 1. cap. 23. ciuill causes was rather committed vnto him than the Priesthoode c. If any Bishop offende in the like with vs it is the fault of the man not of the office By this example also it may appeare that Bishoppes in those dayes had ryches and authoritie For this abusing of their wealth and authoritie doth argue that they had both which they might haue vsed rightly and well Chap. 5. the. 20. Diuision T. C. Pag. 97. Sect. 4. And here I will note another cause which brought in this pompe and princely estate of Byshops wherein although I will say more in a worde for the pompous estate than M. doctour hath done in all his treatise yet I will shewe that although it were more tollerable at the fyrst nowe it is by no meanes to be borne wyth * Theo. li. cap. 8. In the Ecclesiasticall Storie we reade that the inscriptions of diuers Epistles sent vnto Byshops were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 * Li. eodem cap. 18. We reade also of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 house of salutations which Ambrose Bishop of Millayn had As for the tytle of moste honourable Lordes it was not so great nor so stately as the name of a Lorde or knight in oure Countrey for all those that knowe the maner of the speach of the Grecians doe well vnderstande howe they vsed to call euerie one of any meane countenance in the common wealth where he lyued 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is Lorde so we see also the Euangelists turne Rabbi which signifyeth master by the Gre ke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lorde as lykewyse in Fraunce they call euery one that is a Gentleman or hath any honest place Monseur and so they wyll say also sauing your honour Nowe we know this worde Lorde in our Countrey is vsed otherwise to note some great personage eyther by reason of birth or by reason of some high dignitie in the common wealth which he occupieth and therefore those tytles although they were somewhat excessiue yet were they nothing so swelling and stately as ours are Io. Whitgifte The wise man sayth Let not thine owne mouth prayse thee but you for lacke of Pro. 27.
good neighbours or else for tootoo much selfe loue oftentymes forget this lesson as in this place Howsoeuer the Grecians vsed to call euery one of any meane countenance in the common The tytle of most honourable Lorde wealth where he lyued 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lorde yet did they not vse to call him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 most honourable Lorde for that tytle was onely giuen to such as were of great dignitie and authoritie as it is in the place of Theodorete by you quoted giuen to Bishops and therefore you haue made an obiection which you cannot answere This worde Lorde doth signifie preheminence and superioritie and hauing this title most honourable ioyned with it it cannot but signifie some greate state and degrée of authoritie The same I answere to that which followeth And yet Rabbi was a name gyuen primarijs hominibus honore aliquo praeditis to the chiefe men and those which were Rabbi indued with some honour and in that the Euangelistes do translate it Lorde it is manifest that this name Lorde signified then a degrée of superioritie but hauing as I sayde this tytle most honourable added vnto it as it is in that place of Theodorete it cannot but signifie some especiall preheminence and therefore equiualent with the titles now vsed Master Caluine vpon the. 20. of Iohn verse 16 sayth that Rabboni Caluine which is there interpreted master is nomen non modò onorificum not onely an honouble name but also quod professionem continet obedientiae such as conteyneth a profession of obedience But doe the tytles of honour and degrée giuen vnto Bishops so much trouble your hawtie stomacke Surely you are not then of that spirit that the olde auncient Uerie honourable titles giuē to bishops fathers were who disdeyned not to call Bishoppes by as honourable tytles as wée doe looke in Atha his 2. Apol you shall there find the Synode gathered at Ierusalem writing to the Priestes of Alexand call Athanasius sundrie tymes Dominum not as by Atban Apol a common tytle but a tytle of dignitie quum vobis restituet pastorem vestrum dominum comministrum nostrum At h nasium VVhen he shall restore vnto you your Pastor and Lorde our fellow minister Athanasius In the same Apol. Bishops are called domini preciosissimi most excellent or worthie Lordes And it is euident in the same booke that there was no other tytle gyuen to the Emperoure himselfe for there hée is onely called Lorde and so were other of his Nobles in like maner So that in those dayes it was not grudged at to giue vnto Bishoppes the same ty les of honour that was giuen to the Emperour other Nobles The name of most reuerend is as much as the name of most honourable and yet was that name also giuen vnto Bishops in Athanasius tyme as appeareth in the same booke in sundrie places For Athanasius him selfe is called by his Priestes and Deacons reuerendissimus Episcopus Eusebius Nicomed wryting to Paulinus Bishop of Tyrus vseth this style Domino meo Paulino c. To my Lorde Paulinus to 1. con But what shoulde I labour to proue the antiquitie of such tytles which cannot be vnknowne to such as be learned I had more neede to declayme agaynst the pryde and hautinesse of such as do disdaine to vse them but I will not spende paper in wordes Chap. 5. the. 21. Diuision T. C. Pag. 97. Sect. 5. 6. And as touching Ambrose house albeit the worde doth not employ so great gorgeou nesse nor maginfycence of a house as the Palaces and o her magnificall buildings of our Bishops yet the cause where vpon this rose doth more excuse Ambrose who being taken from great wealth and gouernment in the common wealth giuing ouer his office did reteyne (*) It was the house belonging to the Bishop his house and that which he had gotten But our Bishops A heape of slaunders do mainteyne this pompe and excesse of the charges of the Church with whose goodes a great number of ydle loytering seruing men are mainteyned which ought to be bestowed vpon the Ministers which want necessarie finding for theyr familyes and vpon the poore and maintenance of the Uniuersityes As for these ryotous expences of the Church goodes when many other Ministers want and of making great dinners and interteyning great Lordes and magistrates and of the answere to them that say they do helpe the Church by this meanes I will referre the reader to that which Ierome wryteth in an Epistle ad Nepotianum monachum where this is handled more at large Io. Whitgifte Your answere for Ambrose his house hath no probabilitie in it for the wordes Ambrose house within the bounds of the Church of Theodorete in that place do plainly declare that it was neare vnto the Churche yea infra sept Ecclesiae within the bondes or close of the Church and therefore most like to be the house perteyning to the Bishoprike and not any part of Ambrose his former 〈◊〉 For if you remember you sayde a little before that it was decréed in the. 4. Councell of Carthage Can. 14. that a Bishop shoulde haue his house neare vnto the Church But wise men can consider from whence such vnlikely assertions without any shew of proofe do come Bishops buylde not these great houses of the Churches goodes but receyue them Bishops defended against the slaunderous replie as left vnto them by such as were farre from séeking a spoyle they vso them according to the lawes of the lande and their number of men can in no respect be discommended tending to the defense and strength of the realme the honour of the Prince and their owne honest and góod education Our Bishops therefore vse the goodes of the Church according to the first institution and foundation and I doubt not but they vse them to more profite both of the Church and common wealth than they should be vsed if your phansies might take place Your complaint for ministers for the poore c. may be otherwise satisfyed than by Prouision 〈◊〉 ministers a spoyle For if benefices were rightly vsed the Ministers of thys Kealme are better prouided for than in any rountrey or age yea there are mo sufficient lyuings for them besydes the Bishoprikes than can be supplyed with able ministers The poore also are well prouided for God be thanked by sundrie meanes if lawes ròuision for the poore made for the same were duely executed and Hospitalles with suche other prouisions delyuered from vnreasonable Leases and bestowed vppon the poore according to their fyrst ordinaunces Wherefore this clamour of yours is nothing but the Where vnto the Repliers clamour tendeth The same axe is lifted against Uniuersities that hacketh at byshops landes voyce of an enuious spirite proclayming the spoyle of the Churche to the decay of learning and bringing in of barbarisme if it be not in time preuented The Uniuersityes are much beholding to you
speake to mayntayne any excessiue or outrageous pompe but I speake of the egrees in the Ecclesiasticall state and of the manners and conditions of the persons as they be now according to the lawes and customes allowed in this Church of England Chap. 5. the. 25. Diuision T. C. Pag. 98. Sect. 3. And thus will I make an end leauing to the consideration and indifferent waying of the indifferent reader how true it is that I haue before propounded that our Archbishops Metropolitanes Archdeacons Bishops haue besides the names almoste nothing common 〈◊〉 those which haue bene in lder tymes before the sunne of the Gospell beganne to be maruelously darkened by the stinking mistes which the Diuell sent forth out of the bottomlesse pit to blynde the eyes of men that they should not see the shame and nakednesse of that purpled whoore which in the person of the Cleargie long before she gatte into hir seate prepared hir selfe by payntyng hi writhen face with the colours of these gorgeous titles and with the shewe of magnificall and worldly pompe For the Diuell knewe well inough that if he should haue set vp one onely Byshop in that seate of perdition and lefte all the reste in that simplicitie wherein God had appoynted them that his eldest sonne shoulde neyther haue had any way to get into that and when he had gotten it yet beyng as it were an owle amongst a sorte of byrdes should haue bene quickly discouered Io. Whitgifte And I also leaue it to the iudgement of the learned and indifferent Reader 〈◊〉 consider by that which I haue sayde before how vntrue all this is that you here affirme I speake of these degrées and offices as they be nowe vsed in this Churche of England if there be any difference it is bycause they haue not so large and ample iurisdiction and authoritie now as they had then Sathan worketh by sundrie meanes and spareth no fetches to bring to passe his The subtiltie of Sathan in counterfeyte godlinesse must not preiudice that which is true purpose Under the pretence of zeale he hath ingendred sectes and schismes vnder the title of puritie perfection he hath brought in heresie vnder the cloake of simplicitie he hath spread abrode many kindes of idolatrie and superstition vnder the shadow of humilitie he hath couered vntollerable ambition and marueylous arrogancie and what soeuer he bringeth to passe commonly he doth it vnder the colour of vertue and of that which is good and therefore I thinke that euen vnder the names and titles of lawfull degrees and calling he hath established vnlawfull authoritie but neyther is true zeale puritie perfection simplicitie humilitie nor yet lawfull degrées and callings therefore to be condemned Viti as Cyprian sayeth vicin sunt virtutibus Vices Discretion is very necessary be very nigh vnto vertues and the one laboureth to imitate the other but we must not therefore the lesse estéeme of vertue but rather learne prudently to discerne what is the difference betwixt the one and the other If we haue not learned this lesson what state in the common wealth what office what degrée of person nay what kinde of gouernment shall we allowe it is the greatest folly in the worlde to condemne the thing it selfe bycause of the abuse Chap. 5. the. 26. Diuision T. C Pag. 98. Sect. 3. But I haue done only this I admonish the reader that I do not allowe of all those thinges A proper ca eat which I before alleaged in the comparison betwene our Archbishops and the Archbishops of olde tyme or our Bishops theyrs Onely my intent is to shew that although there were corruptions yet in respect of ours they be much more tollerable and that it might appeare how small cause there is that they should alleage their examples to confirme the Archbishops and Bishops that nowe are Io. Whitgifte You do well to worke surely for now shall no man take any great aduauntage of your woordes how be it it had bene curteously done to haue let vs vnderstand what you allowe of this you haue wrytten and what you allowe not For in leauing the matter so rawly you will make vs suspect that you haue spoken you know not what Other things concerning the offices and authoritie of our Cleargie of inequalitie of degrees amongst ministers c. dispersed in other places of the Answere Chap. 6. the. 1. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 75. Sect. vlt. Concerning the offices of an high commissioner iustice of peace how necessarily they be committed to some of the best wisest of the Cleargie what vice by them is bridled what inconuenience mette with what necessarie discipline vsed those know that be wise haue experience in publike affaires and gouernment There is no worde of God to proue why these offices may not concurre in one man But it is the commission that troubleth these men as for peace they are at defiance with it T. C. Pag. 98. Sect. 4. Concerning the offices of cōmissionership and how vnmeete it is that ministers of the worde should exercise them and how that the worde of God doth not permitte any such confusion of offices there shall be by Gods grace spoken of it afterwarde Io. Whitgifte And vntill that afterward be performed will I also differre that which is further to be sayd in this matter Chap. 6. the. 2. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 76. Sect. 1. 2. 3. Pag. 77. Sect. 1. To be shorte they say that all these offices be plainely in Gods worde forbidden and they alleage Math. 23. Luc. 22. 1. Cor. 4. 1. Pet. 5. The places of Mathew Luke be answered before Christ beateth Tract 1. downe ambition and pryde and desire of bearing rule as he did before when he sayde be ye not called Rabbi and call no man father be not called Doctors he doth not condemne the names but the ambition of the minde In the. 1. Cor. 4. it is thus written Let a man thus thinke of vs as of the ministers of Christ c. The ministers of the worde in deede are not to be estemed as Gods but as the ministers of God Some among the Corinthians gloried in their ministers and attributed to much vnto them Here of came these factiōs I holde of Paule I of Apollo c. This teacheth your adherentes and disciples not to attribute to much to you such as you are or any other minister of Gods word It maketh nothing agaynst the names or authorities eyther of Archbishop Lordbishop or any other that you haue named who be the ministers of Christ and ought so to be esteemed The place of S. Peter cap. 5. is this Feede the flocke of God c. not as though you vvere Lordes ouer the flocke c. Peter here condemneth hautinesse contempt and tyrannie of pastors towards theyr flockes he doth not take away lawfull gouernment The Pastor hath rule and superioritie ouer his flocke but it must not be
that hath bene of him and the triall that hath bene of you his experience and yours But what shoulde I compare together things so vnlike That M. Bucer is directly against you in this assertion of yours it dothe not appeare onely in these words of his but in others also which he speaketh to the like effect as in the. 4. to the Eph. as I haue before declared And again vpon the same chapter Bucer n. 4. Ephe. he saith The third part of discipline is obedience which is first to be rendred of al to the Bishop and Minister then of euery clearke to those that be in degree aboue him to suche as may helpe him to the well executing of his ministerie Last of all of Bishops to synodes and to their Metropolitane Byshops and to all other to whom a more ample charge of the churches is committed And in the same commentaries after that he hath proued by sundry examples apt reasons y t this superioritie among Ecclesiasticall persons is conuenient and profitable and shewed that these degrées in the Church Bishop Archbyshop Metropolitane Primate Patria ke be not onely most auncient but also necessarie he concludeth on this sort Bicause it is necessarie that euery one of the cleargie should Idem haue their rulers and gouernours the authoritie power vigilancie and seueritie of Bishops Archdeacons and all other by what name soeuer they be called to whome any portion of keping and gouernin the cleargie is committed should or ought to be restored least there be any in thys order out of rule and without gouernment Howe thinke you nowe of M. Bucers iudgement Is it not directly against you be not his wordes plaine Chap. 6. the. 7. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 124. Sect. 1. Your places quoted in the margent to proue that there ought to Scriptures wreasted to proue equalitie of Ministers be an equalitie of Ministers sounde nothing that waye 2. Cor. 10. vers 7. these be the wordes of the Apostle Looke ye on things after the appearance If any truste in him felfe that he is Christes let him consider this againe of himselfe that as he is Christes euen so are vve Christes Howe conclude you of these wordes your equalitie I promyse you it passeth my cunning to wring out of them any suche sense rather the contrary may be gathered oute of the wordes following whiche be these For though I shoulde boast somevvhat more of our authoritie vvhich the Lord. c. I should haue no shame M. Caluine expounding Caluine these wordes sayth on this sort It vvas for modestie that he ioyned him selfe to their number vvhome he did farre excell and yet he vvould not be so modest but that he vvould kepe his authoritie safe therefore he addeth that he spake lesse than of right he might haue done For he vvas not of the common sorte of ministers but one of the chiefe among the Apostles ▪ and Degrees of honour in the ministerie therefore he saith if I boaste more I nede not be ashamed for I haue good cause And a litle after Quamuis enim commune sit omnibus verbi ministris idemque officium sunt tamen bonoris gradus Although the selfsame office be common to all the Ministers of the vvorde yet there is degrees of honour Thus you see Caluine farre otherwise to gather of this place than you doe T. C. Pag. 100. Sect. 1. And if M. Doctor delight thus to oppose mens authoritie to the authoritie of the holie ghoste to the reasons which are grounded out of the scripture M. Caluine doth openly mislike of the making of that name proper and peculiar to certaine which the holy ghost maketh common to mo And where as of M. Caluines wordes which sayth that there be degrees of honoure in the ministerie Here he defendeth not the admonition but shifteth it or by auilling M. Doctour would gather an Archbishop if he had vnderstanded that an Apostle is aboue an Euange ste an Euangeliste aboue a Pastor a Pastor aboue a Doctor and he aboue an Elder that ruleth onely he neded neuer haue gone to the popishe Hierarchie to seke his diuersiti s of degrees ▪ which he might haue founde in S. Paule And whereas vpon M. Caluines wordes which sayth that Paule was one of the chiefe amongest the Apostles he would seeme to conclude an Archbishop amongst the bishops he should haue remembred that S. Paules chiefetie amōgst the Apostles consisted not in hauing any authoriti or dominion ouer the rest but in labouring and suffering more than the rest and in giftes more excellent than the rest Io. Whitgifte I do not oppose mens authoritie to y e authoritie of y e holy ghost to the reasons which ar grounded out of the scripture but I oppose them to your authoritie and to your reasons who spurne against that order whiche the holie ghoste hath placed in the Churche most shamefully abuse the scripture to mainteine your errours an example wherof is this present text alledged by the Admonition which you passe ouer in silence condemning therby their leudenesse in abusing the same It is you and yours that abuse the name and authoritie of the holie ghoste it is you that wring and wreste the Scriptures vntollerably it is you that falsifie authorities of learned men corruptly alledge them It is you I say that depraue and discredit such writers as haue bene and be notable instrumentes in the churche of Christe and all this you do to maintaine your erroneous opinions and false doctrine wherewith you endeuour to subuerte this churche of Englande M. Caluines wordes be playne and they directly ouerthrowe your equalitie of ministers and shewe the fondnes of the Admonition in alledging that place of scripture to proue any such equalitie M. Caluines wordes be these Qu muis commune sit omnibu verbi ministris idemque officium sunt tamen bonoris gradus Although the selfe same office be common to all the ministers of the worde yet there are degrees of honor Which wordes disproue the equalitie of ministers by the admonition affirmed confirmed with this portion of scripture by M. Caluine here interpreted that is 2. Cor. 10. verse 7. If there were degrees of honour in the Apostles tyme among those which had idem 〈◊〉 the selfe same office as M. Caluine affirmeth why should there not be so now T. C. contra ie to himselfe likewise But will you sée howe vnlike you are vnto your selfe euen in these fewe lynes first you saye that M. Caluines meaning is that an Apostle is aboue an Euangeliste an Euangelist is aboue a Pastor c. and by and by after you confesse that there was chieftie euen among the Apostles but it consisted in labouring and suffering more than the rest and in giftes more excellent than the rest To omitte these contrarieties of yours into the whiche the plainenesse of Master Caluin s wordes hath driuen you this inequalitie that you
now to be alleaged but howe discretely by examination it will appeare The words of the Apostle to the Galat. 2. verse 6. be these And of them vvhich seemed to be great I vvas not taughte vvhat they vvere in tyme passed it maketh no matter to me God accepteth no mans person neuerthelesse they that are the chiefe dyd communicate nothing vvith me The Apostle in these wordes doth declare that he receyued not the Gospell which he preached of men no not of the Apostles but of Iesus Christ and that the Gospell preached by him oughte to be no lesse credited than the Gospell preached by them So that in those wordes he declareth that the truthe of the doctrine dothe not depende of any mans person He speaketh nothyng agaynst superioritie quoad ordinem concâ—rning order but dothe rather acknowledge it for he sayth they that are the chiefe c. But it is true that Master Caluine noteth on thys place Hic non est certamen ambitionis quia nequaquam de personis agitur The contention is not for ambition for it is not vnderstanded of the persons Nowe I praye you consider this argument Paule receyued the Gospell that he preached not of the Apostles but of Christ or the Gospell preached by Paule is equiualent with the Gospell preached by other of the Apostles therefore the names of Archbyshops Archdeacons c. are drawne out of the Popes shop together wyth their offices or this Paule sayth that they that were the chiefe did coÌ„municate nothing with him Ergo the names and offices of Archbyshops be taken out of the Popes shop T. C. Pag 100. Sect. 4. And in the. 207. page vnto the middest of the. 214. page this matter is agayne handled where firste M. Doctor woulde drawe the place of Galatians the seconde (*) This is an vntruth for it is only proued that the place is not against the Archbishop c to proue an Archbyshop and that by a (a) Here you rashely accuse the translation of the Bible printed at Geneua and others false translation for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is they that seemed or appeared he hath translated they that are the chiefe and although the place of the Galatians maye be thought of some not so pregnant nor so full against the Archbyshop yet all must needes confesse that it maketh more agaynst hym than for him For Saynt Paules purpose is to proue there that he was not inferior to any of the Apostles and bringeth one argument thereof that he had not his Gospell from them but from Christe immediately and therefore if the Apostles that were esteemed moste of and supposed by the Galatians and others to be the chiefe had no superioritie ouer S. Paule but were equall wyth him it followeth that there was none that had rule ouer the reste And if there needed no one of the Apostles to be ruler ouer the reste there seemeth to be no neede that one Byshop shoulde rule ouer the rest Io. Whitgifte I haue set downe the words of the Apostle as they be translated in the English Bible printed at Geneua not altering one title and therefore if there be any falsehood in the translation it is in that Bible not in me How truely you haue translated 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 translated Beza saying it signifieth they that seemed or appeared let the Reader iudge after he hath considered these wordes of M. Beza vpon the same worde ad Galat. 2. verse 2. with those that are of reputation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 those which are well estemed of the contrarie whereof are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they which are without renowne or estimatioÌ„ the coÌ„mon translatioÌ„ hath which semed to be some thing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is coÌ„trarie to al our bokes vnto Ieromes interpretatioÌ„ also For thus he writeth which thing Erasmus also dothe well note I did very carefully search saith he what that should be that he said qui videbaÌ„tur they which semed but he hath takeÌ„ away al doubt in that he addeth Qui videbaÌ„tur esse colunmae they which were accouÌ„ted to be pillers Hetherto Hierom wherby he doth euidently declare that he had not read in this place 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But in such sort notwithstanding that he seemeth not to haue knowne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to haue bene called of the Grecians absolutely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is those who are of great estimation with all men And this ignorance of the Greke tong as I thinke was the cause that the olde interpreter being more bolder than Hierom did adde aliquid esse And Erasmus in his annotations Erasmus vpon the same place agréeth with M. Beza herein 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 absolut dicuntur Graecis qui magnae sunt aut oritatis they which are of great authoritie are of the Grecians absolutely called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Budeus also saith that the Apostle in this place taketh thys woorde Bude s. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And both M. Beza himselfe and Erasmus translate it as it is in the Geneua Bible Wherefore here your cunning faileth you and you had not well considered the matter before you entred this accusation of falsifying The true sense and meaning of this place to the Galat. I haue set downe in my Answere and it is according to the interpretation of the best writers iustified by the words of M. Caluine there alleaged and not confuted by you Wherfore the conclusion remaineth as it did That there was superioritie among the Apostles ordinis politiae causa I haue shewed before This place to the Galatians is not brought in by me to proue the authoritie of the Archbyshop although it might well be alleaged to proue degrées of honour in the ministerie but it is quoted in the Admonition fondly and foolishely to proue that the names of Archbishops Archdeacons Lordbishops c. are drawne out of the Popes shoppe together with their offices And of this dalying with the Scriptures you speake not one worde for you care not howe they be profaned so it be for the maintenance of your owne cause Chap. 6. the. 11. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 208. Sect. vlt. The wordes in the. 5. to the Hebrues verse 4. be these And no man taketh this honor to himself but he that is called of God as AaroÌ„ vvas The Apostle here sheweth that Christe was a lawfull Priest bycause he was therevnto called by God as Aaron was What is this to Archbishops c This place teacheth that no man ought to intrude hymselfe Weake argument s. to any function except he be there vnto called by God But what maketh this against any lawfull function or authoritie or what conclusion call you this Christ did not take vnto him that office whervnto he was not called or no man muste take vpon him that whervnto he is not called
Bishop of Smyrna Tertull. de praescript In the Church of Alexandria from the time of S. Marke the ministers had always a Bishop to gouerne them Hiero. ad Euagrium Ignatius who liued in the Apostles tyme doth call a Bishop principem Sacerdotum the prince of Priestes in epist. ad Smyrnenses In Eleutherius is tyme whiche was Anno. 180. when this realme of England Testimonies of the tymes nexte after the Apostles Anno. 180. was fyrst conuerted to Christianitie there was appoynted in the same thrée Archbishops and. 28. Bishops M. Foxe To. 1. pag. 146. Demetrius who liued Anno. 191. was Bishop of Alexandria and of Egypt Euseb. libr. 6. cap. 1. 191. Cyprian who was Anno. 235. being Bishop of Carthage had vnder him Numidia 235. and Mauritania as he himselfe sayeth Lib. 4. Epist. 8. And Gregorie Nazianzene in an oration that he made of Cyprian sayth that he ruled and gouerned not onely the churches of Carthage and Aphrike but of Spayne also and of the whole East churche And for this cause doth Illyricus call him a Metropolitane the which name T. C. also doth giue vnto him in his Replie Pag. 95. sect 2. Dionysius called Alexandrinus who lyued Anno. 250. béeyng Bishop of Alexandria 250. hadde also vnder his iurisdiction all the Churches in Pentapolis as Athanasius testifyeth in a certainepistle Apol. 2. and yet hadde these Churches their proper Bishop as Eusebius dothe witnesse lib. 7. cap. 26. Wherefore the Bishoppe of Alexandria did gouerne them as Archebishop Gregorie béeing Bishop did gouerne all the Churches thorowe Pontus An. 270 270. Eus. lib. 7. cap. 14. Epiphanius li. 2. to 2. haeri 68. maketh mention of one Peter who liued An. 304. whom be calleth Archbishop of Alexandria and declareth that Meletius then Bishop in Egypt 304. was vnder him where also he hath these words Hic enim mos obtinet vt Alexandriae Episcopus totius Aegypti ac Thebaidis Mariotaeque ac Lybiae Ammonicaeque ac Mariotidis ac Pentapolis ecclesiasticam habeat administrationem For this custome hath preuailed that the Bishop of Alexandria should haue the Ecclesiasticall gouernment of all Egypt Thebai Mariota Lybia Ammonica Mariotis and Pentapolis And haere 69. he sayth Quotquot enim ecclesiae in Alexandri cat olicae ecclesiae sunt sub vno Archiepiscopo sunt For all the Churches in Alexandria that be Catholike are vnder one Archebishop The same Epiphanius in the same place doth call Meletius Archbishop of Egypt 304. but yet he sayth that he was subiect to the Archbishop of Alexandria And this Meletius liued also Anno. 304. The Councell of Nice An. 330. in the. 4. Canon sayth that the confirmation of Bishops 3 0. doth pertein to the Metropolitane of euery prouince and in the. 6. mention is made of Metropolitanes to be in euery prouince and that sec ndùm antiquum morem according to the olde custome And it is further sayde that the Bishop of Alexandria hath the regiment of Libya and Pentapolis in Egypt In the. 6. 37. Canons of the secōd Councell of Arelat it is decréed that no Bishop may be ordeined without the consent of the Metropolitane nor any thing to be attempted 335. against the great Synode of the Metropolitane The Councell of Antioch in the. 9. Canon willeth y t in euery prouince y e Bishops be subiect to their Metropolitane bishop which hath y e care of the whole prouince c. And in that Canon is this clause also Secundùm antiquam à patribus nostris regulam constitutam 344. according to the auncient rule appointed by our forefathers Athanasius was Archbishop of Alexandria and had iurisdiction ouer the rest of the clergie to whom also Mariotes was subiect Atbana apo 2. Amphilochius Metropolitane of Lycaonia gouerned y ◠who le coūtry Theod. lib. 4. ca. 11. Zozomene li. 7. ca. 19. writeth that though there be many cities in Scythia yet they haue but one Bishop Aurelius bishop of Carthage in the councell of Aphrica sayth that he had the ouersight and care of many churches Ambrose li. de dig sacer ca. 5. maketh mētion of Archbishops he himself was a Metropolitane hauing charge and gouernment of many churches as the authors of the Centuries testifie in their fourth Centurie Simeon was Archbishop of Seleucia Zozo lib. 2. cap. 8. he liued about the tyme of the Nicene Councell Basile Metropolitane of Capadocia Zozo lib. 3. cap. 16. In the councel of Constātinople which is one of the. 4. general Councels in the. An. 38 and. 5. Canons this authoritie regimēt of Primates Metropolitanes Archbishops is conteine Which thing also Socrates doth note in the same Councell lib. 5. cap. 8. In the. Counce l of Carthage Canon 12. c. it is euident that in euerie Prouince An. 415. there was a primate In the councell of Chalcedon Flauianus is called Archbishop of Constantinople Dioscorus An. 453. Archbishop of Alexandria Leo Archbishop of Rome and the authorities of these offices and degrées there in diuers pointes specified In the first Canon of the councel of Ephesus it may manifestly be gathered y t all An. 468. other Bishops of y e same Prouince wer then subiect to their Metropolitane Bishop Hierome ad Rusticum Monachū sayth Singuli ecclesiarum Episcopi singuli Archipresbyteri singuli archidiaconi c. I omit his other places ad Lucif ad Titum c. Ambrose in 4 d Ephe. sayth that all orders be in a Bishop bicause he is primus sacerdos hoc est princeps sacerdotum the chief Priest that is Prince of priestes Augustine in his questions in vetas nouum test cap 101. sayth Quid est Episcopus nisi primus presbyter hoc est Summus sacerdos Chrysostome being Archbishop of Cōstantinople did also gouern the Churches in Thracia Asia and Pontus Tbeodo lib. 5. cap. 28 The authors of the Centuries affirme the same and call him Archbishop Cent. 5. cap. 10. Theodorete being bishop of Cyrus had vnder his gouernment 800. Churches as he himselfe t stifieth in his Epistle to Leo. Gennadius Bishop of Constantinople writeth to the Bishop of Rome thus Curet Rufsi libr. 1. cap. 29. sanctitas tua vniuersas tuas custodias tibique subiectos Episcopos Infinite testimonies and examples there are of this sorte and no man that is of any reading can be ignorant but that these degrées of superioritie and this kynd of regiment hath bin in the Churche continually euen from the Apostles tyme. M. Bucer vpon the fourthe to the Ephes. sheweth that these de rees in the churche Bishop Archbishop Metropolitane Primate Patriarke be not onely moste auntient but also necessarie M. Caluine in his Instit. cap. 8. Sect. 52. vpon the place of Hierome in the Epistle ad Euagriu sayth that in the old tyme there was to euery citie apointed acertain region Prouince or Dioces Quae presbyteros indè sumeret velut corpori illius ecclesia accenseretur and that
y ◠same also was vnder the Bishop of the citie Quod si amplior erat ager qui sub eius episcopatu erat quà m vt sufficere omnibus episcopi munijs vbique possit per ipsum agrum designabantur certis locis presbyteri qui in minoribùs negotijs eius vices obirent eos vocabant borepiscopos quòd per ipsam prouinciam episcopum representabant M. Beza lib. conf cap. 7 calleth the names of Archbishops Bishops c. Holie names for thus he sayth That Pastors in proces of tyme were distinct into Metropolitanes Bishops and those whome they nowe call Curates that is such as be appoynted to euery Parishe was not in the respect of the ministerie of the worde but rather in respecte of iurisdiction and discipline Therfore concerning the office of preaching the word and administring the Sacramentes there is no difference betwixte Archebishops Bishops and Curates for all are bounde to feede their flocke with the same breade and therefore by one common name in the Scriptures they bee called Pastours and Bishops But what impudencie is there in those men meaning the Papistes to vse those holie names and therfore to glorie of the succession of the Apostles and true Bishops In the same chapter he maketh two kynds of degrées vsed in the Papistical Churche the one vnknowne to the Apostles to the primitine church the other taken out of the word of God and from the primitiue Church In this second order he placeth Archebishops Curates Can ns Seniors or Ministers Archedeacons Deanes Subdeacons Clearkes But what should I stand longer in this matter There is not one writer of credit y t denieth this superioritie to haue bin always among the clergie and these degrées to come euen from the best tyme of the Church since the Apostles and so be both most auncient and generall Wherfore I can not but compt suche as denie so manifest a truthe eyther vnlearned and vnskilful persons or else verie wranglers and men desirous of contention A briefe comparison betvvixt the Bishops of our tyme and the Bishops of the primitiue Churche Chap. 8 I Knowe that comparisons be odious neither would I vse them at this tyme but that I am thervnto as it wer compelled by the vncharitable dealing of T. C. who by comparing the Bishops of our time with the Bishops in the olde Churche hath soughte by that meanes to disgrace them if it were possible I may peraduenture in this point sée me to some to flatter but the true iudgement therof I leaue to him that knoweth the secretes of the heart In the meane tyme I will affirme nothing which is not euident to all those that be learned diuines and not ouer ruled with affection My compar ion shal consist in these thrée points Truthe of doctrine Honestie of lise and right vse of externall things Touching the fyrst that is truth of doctrine I shall not néed much to labour For I think T. C. and his adherents wil not denie but that the doctrin taught professed by our Bishops at this day is much more perfect and sounder than it commonly was in any age after the Apostles time For the most part of the auncientest Bishops were deceyued with that grosse opinion of a thousande yeares after the resurrection wherein Euse. lib. 3. cap. 39. 35. the kingdome of Christe should here remaine vpon earth The fautors whereof were called M llenarij Papias who liued in Polycarpus and Ignatius his tyme béeing Bishop of erusalem was the first author of this errour and almost all the moste auncient fat ers were infected with the same Cyprian and the whole Councel of Carthage erred in rebaptisatiō Cyprian himself To. con 1. Lib. epi. 2. ep 3. also was greatly ouerseene in making it a matter so necessarie in the celebration of the Lords Supper to haue water mingled with wyne which was no doubt at y ◠tyme cōmon to moe than to him but the other opinion which he confuteth of vsyng water only is more absurd and yet it had at that tyme patrones among the Bishops Howe greatly were almost all the Bishops learned writers of the greke church yea and the Latines also for the most part spotted with doctrines of freewill of merites of inuocation of Sainctes suche lyke Surely you are not able to recken in any age since the Apostles tyme any companie of Bishops that taught helde so sound perfect doctrine in all poynts as the Bishops of England do at this tyme. If you speake of Ceremonies of the syncere administration of the sacraments you shall finde the like difference for compare the cerenionies that Tertullian sapet lib. decoro mil. then to be vsed in the Churche about the Sacraments and otherwise or those that Basile reherseth Lib. de Sancto spi. or suche as we may reade to haue bin in S. Augustins tyme with those that we nowe reteine in this Churche and you can not but acknowledge that therin we are come to a far greater perfection I meane not to stande in particulars I thinke T. C. and his companions wil not contende with me in this poynt for if they doe it is but to maynteyncontention Seing then that in the truthe of doctrine which is the chief and principall point oure Bishops be not only comparable with the olde Bishops but in many degrées to be preferred before them we thinke there is tootoo great iniurie done vnto them and to this doctrine whiche they professe when as they are so odiously compared and so contemptuously intreated by T. C. and his Colleags 2 Touching honestie of life which is the second point I wil not say much I do not think but that therin they may be compared with the old Bishops also and in some points preferred euery age hath some imperfectiōs in it and the best men are most subiect to the slanderous tong Great contention ther was among the Bishops in the Councell of Nice insomuch that euen in the presence of the Emperour they ceased not to libell one against an other What bitternesse and cursing was there betwixt Epiphanius and Chrysostome what affectionate dealyng of Theophilus agaynste the same Chrysostome what iarring betwixt Hierome and Augustine But I wil not prosecute this Men be they neuer so godly yet they be men the cōm n sorte of people when they waxe wearie of the worde of God truely preached then doe they begin to depraue the true and chiefe ministers of the same 3 For the third poynt that is the vse of external things if the ishops nowe haue more land liuing than Bishops had then it is the blessing of God vpon his church and it is commodious for the state and time If any man abuse himself therin let him be reformed let not his fault be made a pretence to cloke a minde desirous to spoyle I sée not how those lands and liuings can be imployed to more bene ite of y e churche cōmoditie of the
and naught so do you as naughtily 〈◊〉 it Is there no way for the prodigall man to come to liberalitie but by 〈◊〉 no way for the glutton to come to temperance but by pyning himselfe no way for t e 〈◊〉 person to come to the true feare and loue of God but by des eration 〈◊〉 way to come rom poperie to the Gospell but by confusion and 〈◊〉 of all good ord r and gouernment Is this diuinitie In déede uch 〈◊〉 it is that Aristotle a prophane Philosopher doth teach in his Ethikes but not that Chris and his 〈◊〉 do teach in the Gospell The ordinarie meanes whereby a Christian man must come from vice to vert e The ordinarie meanes to draw men from 〈◊〉 from an e treme to a meane is the diligent reading and hearing o the word of God ioyned with earnest and heartie prayers The best way therefore to bring a dronken man to sobrietie is not to perswade him to a superstitious kind of abstinence or fasting but to lay before him out of the word of God the horriblenes of that sinne and the punishment due vnto the same The similitude of a croked sticke is a t to set foorth so croked a precept but not so apt to make manifest the way vnto vertue But I may not blame you for vsing and allowing those prophane rules whiche you so aptly follow and so commonly practise in all your doings Chap. 1. the. 6. Diuision T. C. Pag. 103. Sect. 1. 2. This wisedome of not conforming it selfe vnto the ceremonies of the Idolaters in things indifferent hath the Church followed in times passed Tertullian sayth O sayth he better is the religion of the heathen for they vse no solemnitie of the Christians ▪ neyther the Lords day neyther the Pentecost and if they knew them they woulde Lib. de Ido latria haue nothing to do with them for they would be afrayd least they shoulde seeme Christians but we are not afraid to be called heathen Io. Whitgifte Tertullian in that place speaketh against such Christians as celebrated the feasts of the Gentiles togither with them remayning in their wicked abuse as it appeareth in the words that go before which are as followeth Nobis quibus sabbata extranea Lib. de Idolatria sunt neomenia feriae aliquādo a Deo dilectae Saturnalia lanuariae Brumae Matro ales frequentantur munera commeant strenae consonant lusus conuiuia constrepunt O melior fides nationum in suam sectam c. The feasts of Saturne of Ianus of Bacchus and of Iuno are frequented of vs vnto whome the sabbats new mones and holydays sometimes beloued of God are straunge gifts and presents are very ri e sportes and banquets keepe a sturre O better is the faith of the Gentiles in their sect c. Wherefore this saying of Tertullian may aptly be alledged against those that frequent the popish solemnities togither with them come to their Churches communicate with them in worshipping their idols and yet professe the knowledge of the Gospell but it can by no meanes be drawen vnto such as withdrawing themselues from suche kind of communicating with them do in their seuerall Churches vse those good things well which the Papists haue abused as the scripture the sacraments prayers and suche like Wherefore you do not well to alledge Tertullians words omitting the circumstances which declare his meaning A man being pr sent at Idolatrous seruice must néedes giue great suspition that he is an Idolater and therfore no man ought to be present at it which in heart condemneth it But as there is no honest and godly man which can call our seruice Idolatrous or Papisticall so is ther none that can suspect vs to be Idolaters or Papists The whole world knowing that both our practise and profession is to the contrary Chap. 1. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Pag. 103. Sect. 3. Euseb. lib. 3. cap. 17. Constantine the Emperoure speaking of the keeping of the feast of Easter saythe that it is an vnworthy thing to haue any thing common with that most spitefull companie of the Iewes And a little a ter he saith that it is most absurd and against reason that the Iewes shou de vaunt and glory that the Christians could not keepe those things without their doc rine And in another Socrat. li. cap. 9. place it is sayd after this sort It is conuement so to order the matter that we haue nothing common with that nation Io. Whitgifte Constantine speaketh of the feast of Easter which he would not haue obserued according to the manner of the Iewes and yet you know that the Churches in Asia following the examples of Philip and Iohn the Apostles and of Polycarpus and many other godly men did celebrate that feast togyther with the Iewes as it is to be seene in the fifth booke o Eusebius eccle history Wherfore the matter was not of so great Euseb. lib. 5. cap. 23. 24. 25. 26. importance before it was for quietnesse sake determined by the Churche neyther doth Constantine in eyther of the places meane that we should haue nothing common with the Iewes but only that we should haue no suche thinges common with them as are repugnant to Christian libertie or to the truth of the Gospell or such as may cō rme them in their obstinacie and error For if his meaning had bin generally and simply then mighte he haue vtterly abrogated the feast of Easter being no commaundement sor it in the new testament As therefore Cōstantine thought that the Churche had not the feast of Easter common with the Iewes not bycause the thing it selfe was abrogated but the ay altered Euen so the Churche of Englande cannot be said to haue any thing common with the P pisticall Church though it reteine something vsed in the same bycause the manner is changed and certayne circumstances altered or whereas before it was in a straunge tongue nowe it is in a tongue knowne and whereas it was before abused and mixt with superstition now it is rightly vsed and purged from all corruption And therefore although the thing remaine yet bycause the circumstances be altered it is not the same no more than our Sabbat is the Iewes Sabbat and our Easter the Iewes Easter Chap. 1. the. 8. Diuision T. C. Pag. 103. Sect. 4. 5. 6. The Councels although they did not obserue themselues always in making of decrees thys rule yet haue kept this consideration continually in making their lawes that they woulde haue the Christians differ from others in their ceremonies The Co ncell of Laodicea which was afterward confirmed by the sixt generall Councell decreed Tom. 1. con Lao. can 38 that the Christians should not take vnleauened bread of the Iewes or communicate with their 〈◊〉 Also it was decreed in another Councell that they shoulde not decke their houses with bay 2. To. Braccar can 7 leaues and greene boughes because the Paganes did vse so
and that they shoulde not rest from their labours those days that the Paganes did that they shoulde not keepe the firste day of euery moneth as they did Io. Whitgifte What is all this to your purpose who saith that eyther we must vse all thinges that the Iewes and gentiles did or that the Church hath not authoritie to take order therein as shall be thought most conuenient the Churche at this time did perceiue inconueniences in these customes and ceremonies and therefore did by ordinaris authoritie abrogate them In like manner and vpon like considerations hathe thys Church of England abandoned great numbers of Papisticall rites and ceremonies but bycause it refuseth some may it therefore reteine none or bycause it reiecteth those which be wicked and vnprofitable may it not therefore kéepe still suche as be godly and perteine to order and decencie The Canon of the Councell of Laodicea is this Non 〈◊〉 a Iudaeis azyma accipere Canon 38. aut communicare impietatibus eorum That we ought not to take vnleauened bread of the ewes or communicate with their impietie And surely I maruell what you can cōclude of it for no man as I suppose doth thinke that we may vse ceremonies proper to the Iewes and abrogated by Christ or that it is lawful to communicate with theyr impietie That Canon which you call 73. of the Councell of Bracar is not to be found in any such Councell for there are not so many Canons in any Councell so called but the Canon that you meane as I thinke is among the Canons collected out of the Gréeke Synods by S. Martin and in number 74. The words be these Let it not be lawfull to vse wicked obseruations of the calends and to keepe the gentiles holy days nor to decke houses with bays or greene oughes for all this is an heathenish obseruation To what purpose do you alleadge this canon what doth it proue Christians are inhibited from obseruing days and times and other friuolous superstitions after the maner of the Gentiles But what is this to godly prayers grounded vpon the word of God or comely and decent orders and ceremonies Chap. 1. the. 9. Diuision T. C. Pag. 103. Sect. vlt. Another Councell decreed that the Christians should not celebrate (*) A manifest vntruth feasts on the birth days of the mar yrs bycause it was the manner of the heathen whereby it appeareth that both of singular Afric conc ca. 17. men and of Councels in making or abolishing of ceremonies heede hath bin takē that the Christians should not be like vnto the idolaters no not in those things which of themselues are moste indifferent to be vsed or not vsed Io. Whitgifte It is maruellous to behold your dealing and to consider how vnder the pretence of auoiding I know not what in reciting the words of such Authors as you alledge you delude the Reader with an vntrue sense as it euidently appeareth in this cannon of the Councell of Afrike the words whereof be these This is also to be desired of Con. Afric Can. 27. the Emperours that such feasts as contrary to the commaundements of God are kept in many places which haue bin drawen from the errour of the Gētiles so that now Christiās are compelled by the paganes to celebrate them whereby another persecution in the tyme of Christian Emperours seemeth couertly to be raysed might be by their commaundemēt forbidden and the peyne layd vpon cities and possessions prohibited especially seing they are not afrayd to cōmit such things in some cities euen vpon the birth days of blessed martyrs and in the holy places Vpon which days also whiche is a shame to tell they vse most wicked dauncings throughout the streates so that the honour of matrones and the chast shamefastnesse of many women which come deuoutly vnto that holyday is by their lasciuious iniuries inuaded in so much that those religious meetings are almost shunned In these words the heathenish feasts of the gentiles which are against the commaundement of God being full of impietie and vncleanesse are forbidden to be vsed of Christians in the birth days of martyrs or at any other time How this can be applyed to your purpose I know not except that you count all that for fish that cōmes o nette Now let the Reader consider what weightie reasons you haue hitherto vsed against our order of prayer nay rather how vnaptly you haue alledged both your rea sons and authorities And whereas you séeme to insinuate that the things you haue spoken of be most indifferent that is nothing so for the most of those thinges prohibited by these canons be things least indifferent as it may appeare by that which is already spoken of them and euen in the very canons themselues Chap. 1. the. 10. Diuision T. C. Pag. 104. Lin. 1. It were not hard to shew the same considerations in the seuerall things which are mentioned o in this Admonition as for example in the ceremonies of prayer whiche is here to be 〈◊〉 Lib. de anima we reade that Tertullian woulde not haue the Christians sitte after they had prayed bycause the Idolaters dyd so but hauing shewed thys in generall to bee the pollicie of God firste and of his people afterward to put as much difference as can be 〈◊〉 betweene the people of God and others which are not I shall not neede to shew the same in the particulars Io. Whitgifte If it wer not too hard I doubt not but that you woulde saye something more in the matter than you haue done I know not to what purpose you haue alleadged Tertul ian for not sitting after prayer c. except your meaning be that we shall not knéele in praying bycause the Papists did vse that gesture Howbeit there is no such thing to be found in that booke of Tertullian Wherefore you are to carelesse in alleadging your Authors and giue to much credite as it should séeme to other mens collections In his booke de oratione He reproueth certaine that vsed to sit after prayer alledging for their Author Hermas to whome the booke called Pastor is ascribed he shesheth that no such thing can be gathered of Hermas his words and further addeth that this gesture is to be reproued not onely bycause idolaters did vse it in worshipping their idols but also bycause it is an vnreuerent gesture His words be these Eò Tertullian apponitur irreuerentiae crimen c. Herevnto is added the fault of vnreuerence that might be vnderstoode euen of the gentiles themselues if they were wise for it is an vnreuerente thing to sit in the sight and against the face of him whome thou wouldest especially reuerence and worship how much more is this deede most prophane in the sight of the liuing God his Angell being as yet present at this prayer Truly your generall reasons hitherto vsed are neyther of sufficient pollicie or mighte to deface a booke with so greate wisedome learning and zeale
and that there will not be wanting some probable colours also whereby these things may be defended if men will set themselues to striue and to contende yet for the desyre that I haue that these things should be amended and for the instruction of the symple which are studious of the truth I haue beene bolde to vtter that whiche I thinke not doubting also but that the lyght of the truth shall be able to scatter all those mystes of reasons which shall go about to darken the clearnesse thereof Io. Whitgifte Surely if the blottes be so manifest as you woulde séeme to make them it is not wisely done of you so slenderly to passe them ouer You do well to thinke that this treatise of yours touching prayer will be subiect to The pith of the replie concerning prayer many reprehensions and why shoulde it not What is there in it worthie of commendation What learning what reason what truth what godlinesse except vaine wordes be learning fancies reason lyes truth contempt of good lawes and orders with vnséemely iestes bée godlynesse for what is there else in thys treatise Truely if you had not settled your selfe to striue and to contende and had not béene desyrous to peruert the simple rather than to instruct them you would neuer vpon so weake a ground with so féeble reasons or rather vaine fansyes haue gone about to depraue so worthie a Booke In the whiche as I haue sayde before you are not able to shewe any thing especially touching the order maner and matter of prayer that is not consonant to the worde of God Neyther haue you for all that is spoken against the forme of prayer alledged one text of Scripture or one sentence of any auncient or late wryter and doe you thinke that men will beléeue you vpon your bare wordes agaynst so many Martyrs and learned men as haue allowed and doe allowe that booke Your credite is not so greate as you thinke it is and that which you haue when you are accordingly detected will vtterly vanishe and fade away Of Baptisme by women wherewith the Communion booke is falsely charged Chap. 3. the. 1. Diuision Admonition In which a great number of things contrarie to Gods worde are conteyned as baptisme (i) Mat. 28. 19 1 Co. 14. 35 The fyrst appoynter hereof vvas Vietor 1. Anno. 198. by women Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 79. Sect. 2. 3. 4. 5. All prayers good in the Communion booke But you say a number of things contrarie vnto Gods worde are conteyned in this booke as baptisme by women c. Here is not one prayer in all the Communion booke founde fault with and yet your quarell is agaynst a prescript forme of prayers inuented by man You marueylously forget your selfe and confusedly go from matter to matter without any consideration Digressing therefore from prayers conteyned in the Communion booke you come to other matters in the same agaynst Gods worde as you say and first you alledge baptising by women I denie baptising by women to be expressed in that booke and when you haue proued it to be necessarily gathered out of the same then shall you heare my iudgement thereof T. C. Pag. 109. Sect. 4. Mayster Doctor requireth that it shoulde be proued vnto him that by pryuate Baptisme is ment Baptisme by women First it is ment that it shoulde be done by some other than the Minister for that the Minister is bidde to giue them warning that they shoulde not baptise the childe at home in their house without great cause and necessitie secondarily I woulde gladly aske him who they be that are present when the childe is so shortly after it is borne in great daunger of death and last of all Mayster Doctor doth not see howe he accuseth all the Magistrates of this Realme of the neglect of theyr duetie in that they allowe of the dayly practising by women in baptising children if so be that the booke did not so appoynt it or permit it If he nt plainly herein there needed not so much a doe Io. Whitgifte Here is nothing sayde whiche the Authours of the Admonition haue not alledged before eyther in theyr booke or in theyr Additions and therefore the same answere that was made vnto them will serue for you I tolde you there Why baptism is called priuate that the booke of Common prayer doth call it priuate Baptisme in respect of the place which is a priuate house and not in respect of the Minister whiche euidently appeareth in these wordes whiche you your selfe alledge in this place that is that the Minister is bidde to giue them warning that they shoulde not baptise the childe at home in their house c. but you cannot thereof conclude the meaning of the Booke to be that women shoulde baptise for euen in that necessitie the Curate may be sent for or some other minister that may sooner be come by Your question is soone answered for no man doubteth of the persons that bée present at suche a tyme but I haue tolde you that when suche necessitie requyreth the Curate or the next Minister is soone sent for as often tymes he is in as great extremities as that and what a reason call you thys women bée present when the chylde that is borne is in great daunger of death therefore the Minister cannot be sent for to baptise the childe To your obiection of the Magistrates allowing the practise of Baptising by women I answere first that your generall proposition is vntrue as I thinke for all the Magistrates of this Realme doe not so Secondly that if they did yet it followeth not that they doe it by the authoritie of the Booke for many things bée permitted as tollerable whiche are not established by any lawe and therefore if you had done well you shoulde rather haue reproued the custome that doth vse it than the booke that speaketh neuer a worde of it I deale as playnly as I can for I kéepe me to the Booke But your vayne coniectures and friuolous reasons against that booke may not be yelded vnto but opened that they may appeare in their colours Chap. 3. the. 2. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 79. Sect. vlt. Your places of Scripture alleadged against it are not of sufficient Feeble arguments force to proue your purpose Christ in the. 28. of Mathew sayde to his disciples Go and teache all nations baptisyng them in the name of the father c. ergo women may not baptise I saye this argumente followeth not no more than this doth Ergo pastors may not baptise for it is manyfest that an Apostle is dislincte from a Pastor T. C. Pag. 109. Sect. 5. The place of the. 28. of Sainct Mathew is as strong agaynst womens baptizing as it is agaynst theyr preaching For (a) Vntruth 〈◊〉 hath 〈◊〉 the ministerie of the worde and Sacramentes can not be pulled in sunder which y e Lord hath ioyned togither from time to time For
confidently auouching that which you cannot proue The distribution of the cuppe in the Lordes supper is commaunded in manifest and expresse woordes as a parte of the Supper but you cannot shew me the like commaundement that only a minister shall celebrate Baptisme or els that it is no Baptisme We know that circumcision the figure of Baptisme was ministred sometimes by such as were no Priests and yet right and true circumcision Chap. 5. the. 6. Diuision T. C. Pag. 114. Sect. 1. And for as much as S. Paule sayth that a man cannot preach which is not sent (*) This is added to the text no not Rom. 10. although he speake the wordes of the scripture and interprete them so I cannot see how a man can baptise vnlesse that he be sent to that end although he poure water and rehearse the wordes which are to be rehearsed in the ministrie of baptisme Io. Whitgifte S. 〈◊〉 in that 10. chapt to the Rom. speaketh of the extraordinarie calling to the office of preaching so sayeth M. Martyr in his Commentaries vpon this place Martyr And although Paule intreateth in this place of calling and sending and this is as I sayde ordinarie and extraordinarie there is no doubt but that he nowe speaketh of the extraordinarie calling c. And M. Caluine lykewise vpon the same place sayeth that Paule Caluine doth not there speake De legitima cuius que vocatione of the lawfull calling of euery man Wherefore if you will grounde any such reason vpon this place it muste be thus S. Paule sayth that a man cannot preach which is not sent and he meaneth of an extraordinarie sending therefore no man may preach vnlesse he be extraordinarily called therevnto and so consequently not minister baptisme except he be called in like manner If you will reason thus then do you cōfirme the baptizing by laye men who do it not ordinarily but extraordinarily vpon necessitie S. Paule doth not say that a man cannot preach which is not sente no not although he The Replier addeth to the text and for what purpose speaketh the wordes of the scripture and interprete them These wordes be so added by you that the simple and ignorant may thinke they be the woordes of S. Paule He that speaketh the wordes of the scripture and doth interprete them preacheth though he be not there vnto called and it is the true woorde of God he preacheth if he truly interprete but he intrudeth himselfe into a vocation where vnto he is not called and therefore Usurpers both in preaching and ministring the Sacraments offend God offendeth God but that doth derogate nothing from the woorde preached The same reason is of the administration of the Sacramentes for as the woorde of God is the woorde of God by whom so euer it be preached minister or other so is the Sacrament of Baptisme true baptisme by whom soeuer it be celebrated the vsurper of the office hath to answere for his intrusion but the Sacrament is not thereby defiled It is no harde matter to shew that in the primitiue Church laye men were suff d Lay men su fred to preach Euseb. lib. 6. cap. 20. to preach you know that Euseb. sayeth that Origene being a lay man was sent into Arabia to preach the Gospell which he also did both before after in the Church of Alexandria and likewise in Cesarea And although Demetrius then Bishop of Alexandria founde faulte that Origene beyng a laye man shoulde preache in the presence of Bishops at Cesarea Yet is it manifest that he allowed laye men to preach if Bishops were not present And in the same chapt by diuers examples it is shewed as of Euelpis at Laranda of Paulinus at Iconium of Theodorus at Synada that the custome of the Churches both then and before that time was that laye men might preach euen in the presence of Bishops so that you haue erred both in applying the place of S. Paule and in saying that laye men may not preache the woorde vpon occasion and so consequently Baptise Chap. 5. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Pag. 114. Sect. 1. I know there be diuers (*) The more to blame you are without proo to enter into such difficulties difficulties in this question and therefore I was soth to enter into it but that the Answerer setteth downe so considently that it maketh no matter for the truthe of baptisme whether he be minister or no minister and so whether one haue a calling or no calling wherein notwithstanding he doth not onely by his often handling of one thing confounde his reader but himselfe also and forgetteth that he is in an other question than which is propounded For although it should be graūced him that the sacrament doth not depende vpon that yet hath he not that (a) This is no intended which he would haue that women may baptise for it is one thing to say the baptisme which is ministred by women is good and effectuall and an other thing to say that it is lawfull for women to minister baptisme For there is no man doubteth but that the baptisme which is ministred by an hereticall minister is effectuall and yet I thinke that M. Doctor will not say that therefore an hereticall minister may baptise and that it is lawfull for Herctikes to baptise in the Churche And therfore men must not only take hede as M. Doctor sayth that they vsurpe not that which they are not called vnto but they must also take heede that they receyue not functions and charges vpon them whereof they are not capable although they be therevnto called Io. Whitgifte There are mo difficulties in this question than you can wel determine and therfore it had bene beste eyther not to haue spoken of it at all or els to haue handled it more substantially but the scarcitie of matter and reasons argueth the weakenesse and fayntnesse of the cause I passe ouer your woordes I go not aboute to proue that women may baptise onely I withstande this errour that the Substance and beyng of the Sacramentes dependeth vpon the man in any respect I say that baptisme ministred Baptisme true baptisme though vulawfully ministred by women is true Baptisme though it be not lawfull for women to baptise as the baptisme also ministred by heretiks is true baptisme though they be vsurpers of that office And the same S. Augustine affirmeth of baptisme by laye men in the place August lib. 2. contr Epist. Parmea ca. 13. before alleaged Although sayeth he it be vsurped without necessitie and is giuen of any man to any man that which is giuen cannot be sayde not to be giuen although it may be rightly sayde not to be rightly giuen And I further say that if the baptisime ministred by hereticall ministers which be no members of the Churche be notwithstanding good and effectuall I sée no cause why it should not be so rather if it be ministred by laye men which are members
Euensong neyther can they be brought to the contrarie and yet the prayers be not the worse so they call the day of Christes natiuitie Christmasse c. what is this to condemne the things themselues But you say this terme doth import nothing else than a banishment from the Church c. so might you say that these names Sunday Monday do import y t we dedicate those days to the Sunne Moone and so likewise might you say of the other names reteyned in the cōmon and vsuall speache but all men would then espie your folly euen as they may do nowe if they be disposed The absence of the woman after hir delyuerie is neyther banishment nor excommunication as you terme it but a withdrawing The true cause of the absence of the woman after hir deliuerāce of the partie from the Churche by reason of that infirmitie and daunger that God hath layde vpon woman kinde in punishment of the first sinne whiche daunger she knoweth not whether she shall escape or no and therefore after shee hath not onelye escaped it but also brought a childe into the worlde to the encrease of Gods people and after such tyme as the comelinesse of nature maye beare she commeth firste into The cause of hir thankesgiuing the Churche to giue thankes for the same and for the deliueraunce by Christe from that sinne whereof that infirmitie is a perpetuall testimonie And this being done not Iewishly but Christianly not of custome but of duty not to make the act of lawfull matrimonie vncleane but to giue thankes to God for deliueraunce from so manifolde perilles what Christian hearte can for the names sake thus disallowe of it as you doe The comming so neare the communion table is a verye small matter to carpe at it is thought to be the moste conuenient place both for the minister for the woman especially if she be disposed to receiue the holy Communion But such trifling quarrels argue an extreame penurie of good and substantiall reasons The paying of hir accustomed offrings which you séeme moste to mislike as your selfe confesse the meaning of the booke to be hath no such purpose and intent as you would make the Reader to beleue neither can it for she neither offereth Lambe Turtles or Leuit. 12 yong Pigeons as the lawe requireth but payeth to the Curate his accustomed dutie which both she may as lawfully giue and he receiue as the other tenthes may be payde and receyued It is a portion of the Pastors liuing appointed and limitted vnto hym by the Churche and therefore he may lawfully receiue it as it is appointed vnto him And all your obiections to the contrary are hereby answered fully Chap. 7. the. 2. Diuision Admonition In which booke a great number of things contrary to Gods worde are conteyned as Iewish (b) Act. 15. 10. purifyings c. Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 81. Sect. 4. The thirde is the Iewishe purifyings as you terme it you cite for that purpose Act. 15. where Peter speaking against certeyne of the Pharisies which beleued and taught that it was nedeful for the Gentiles which were conuerted to be circumcised and to obserue Moses lawe saith on this sorte Novve therefore vvhy tempte ye God Act. 15. to laye a yoke on the disciples neckes c. Howe any thing here conteined prohibiteth women after they be deliuered from the great danger and paynes of child bearing to giue in the congregation thankes for their deliuerance let the godly Reader iudge Surely this is no Iewishe purifying but Christian giuing of thankes most consonant and agreable to the worde of God But hereof also some thing more is to be spoken in an other place T. C. Pag. 119. lin 24. Nowe whereas M. Doctor sayth that the place of the 15. of the Actes alleaged by the Admonition maketh nothing against this he should haue considered that if it be a Iewyshe ceremony as they suppose it it is to be abolished vtterly For it being shewed there that all the Ceremonial law of Moses is done awaye through our Sauiour Christe this also a parte thereof muste needes be therein comprysed Io. Whitgifte The place nothing perteyneth to this purpose neither is giuing of thankes a Iewysh Ceremonie and therefore their supposition is but vayne Chap. 7. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Pag. 119. in the midst And whereas he sayth that it being nothing else but a thankesgiuing for hit deliuerance cannot be therefore but Christian and very godly I answere that if there should be solemne and expresse giuing of thankes in the Churche for euery benefite either equall or greater than this which any singular persone in the Churche doth receyue wee should not onelye haue no preaching of the Theod. li. 4 cap. 11. worde nor ministring of the Sacramentes but we shoulde not haue so much leysure as to doe any corporall or bodely worke but should be lyke vnto those heretykes which were called of the Syriake worde Messalians or continuall prayers and which did nothing else but praye Io. Whitgifte Truthe is neuer contrary vnto it selfe before you reproued the booke of Common prayer for want of thankesgiuing for benefites receiued and now you reproue it for appointing thankes to be giuen for deliuerance from sinne from manifolde perils Pag. 108. Sect. 3. and daungers and for the encrease of Gods people all which things are publike although thankes be giuen by a priuate person for in dede the punishmēt and daunger layde vpon all womankinde for disobedience is not onely common but very notorious and a perpetuall testimonie of our subiection vnto synne and therefore requireth a solemne thankesgiuing at such time as it pleaseth God to shewe his mercie therein and to deliuer from ill And yet if it were not so where reade you that any priuate persone is forbidden to giue thankes in the publike congregation for some especiall benefit receiued namely if the Churche thinke it conuenient and agrée thervnto as it doth to this Theodoret sayth that the Messalian heretikes had these errours firste they being The errors of the Messalians Theod. lib. 4. cap. 11. possessed with a Deuill which they thought to be the holy spirite did condemne all bodily labour as wicked secondly they being giuen to much sleepe did name the visions of their dreames prophesies thirdly they sayde that the supper of the Lorde and Baptisme did neither good nor harme to any man fourthlye when they were charged with such things they would not stande to them but impudently deny them last of all they taught that euery man when he is borne doth take of his parentes as the nature so likewyse the seruitude of Deuils which being driuen out by diligēt praier the holy spirit entred in c. This is all that Theodoret in that place reporteth of those heretikes the which howe much it maketh against either diligent or continual prayers Luc. 18. Rom. 12. Epbe. 6. Coll. 4. or thankesgiuing for
to the Trinitie and those that are consecrate to our sauiour Christe are in that they be called Trinitie daye or the Natiuitie daye of our sauiour Christe by and by taken to be instituted to the honour of our sauiour Christe and of the Trinitie so likewyse the people when it is called sainct Paules daye or the blessed Uirgin Maries daye can vnderstande nothing thereby but that they are instituted to the honour of sainct Paule or of the Uyrgin Mary vnlesse they be otherwyse taughte And if you saye let them so be taught I haue answered that the teaching in this lande can not by any order whiche is yet taken come to the most parte of those whiche haue dronke this poyson and where it is taughte yet were it good that the names were abolished that they shoulde not helpe to vnteache that whiche the preaching teacheth in this behalfe Io. Whitgifte You haue so dismembred my booke in taking héere a péece and there a péece to answere as it pleaseth you and in leauing oute what you liste that you rather make a newe discourse of your owne than a Replie to anye thyng that I haue set downe Touching the names of the holydayes whiche you mislike I haue tolde the cause why they be so called whiche cause you can not improue and therefore you fall agayne to your accustomed coniectures and suppositions whiche are but very simple and slender argumentes What if euery one dothe not vnderstande so muche muste the Churche alter hir decrées and orders for euery particular mans abusing or not vnderstanding them He that is moste ignorant maye learne and knowe why they be so called if he be disposed if he be not the faulte is his owne the name of the day is not the worse to be lyked You might muche better reason agaynst the names of Sunday Monday and Saterday whiche be Heathenishe and prophane names yet I suppose that there is no man so madde as to thinke that those dayes be instituted and vsed of Christians to the honour of the Sunne of the Moone and of Saturne This is but to play the parte of a quareller as I haue sundry times tolde you to cauill at the name when you can not reproue the matter Those dayes be rather reteyned in the Churche to roote out suche superstitious opinions by the preaching of the worde and the reading of the Scriptures Neyther can any man that vnderstandeth Englishe and frequenteth the common and publike prayers in those holydayes except he be wilfull be so affected as you séeme to suspect Trinitie sunday the Natiuitie of our Sauiour Christe and suche lyke althoughe we honour the Trinitie and our Sauiour Christe in them as we doe in all other yet haue they their names especially bicause the Scriptures then read in the Churche concerne the Trinitie and the Natiuitie of our Sauiour Christe Augustine ad Ianuar. 119. sayth thus of the daye of the Natiuitie of Christe Heere first August it behoueth that thou knowe the daye of the Natiuitie of the Lorde not to be celebrated in a Sacrament or figure but onely that it is called backe into remembraunce that he is borne and for this there needeth nothing but that the day yerely be signified by solemne deuotion wherein the thing was done There is no place in this lande so destitute of instructions eyther by preaching or reading that any man can iustly pleade ignorance in suche matters and therefore séeing you haue no other arguments agaynst holydayes but coniectures and surmises and they false and vntrue or at the least not sufficient to alter a profitable order in the Churche holydayes maye still remayne and stande in their former force and strengthe Chap. 2. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Page 121. Sect. 2. Furthermore seeing the holydayes be ceremonies of the Churche I see not why we may not heere reuue Augustiues complaynte that the estate of the Iewes was more tollerable than ours is I speake in thys poynt of holydayes for if their holydayes and ours be accounted we shall be founde (*) It will be sound otherwyse to haue more than double as many holydayes as they had And as for all the commodities which we receyue by them whereby M. Doctor goeth about to proue the goodnesse and lawfulnesse of their institution as that the Scriptures are there read expounded the patience of those Sainctes in their persecution and martyrdome is to the edifying of the Churche remembred and yearely renued I saye that we mighte haue all those commodities without all those daungers whiche I haue spoken of and without any keeping of yerely memorie of those Saincts and as it falleth out in better and more profitable sorte For as I sayde before (*) Very absurdly of the keeping of Easter that it tyeth and as it were fettereth a meditation of the Easter to a sewe dayes whiche shoulde reache to all our age and tyme of our lyfe so those celebrations of the memories of Sainctes and Martyrs streyghten our consideration of them vnto those dayes whych should continually be thought of and dayly as long as we lyue And if that it be thoughte so good and profitable a thing that this remembraunce of them shoulde be vpon those dayes wherein they are supposed to haue dyed yet it followeth not therefore that after thys remembraunce is celebrated by hearing the Scriptures concernyng them and prayers made to followe their constancie that all the rest of the daye shoulde be kepte holy in suche sorte as men should be debarred of their bodily labours and of exercising their dayly vocations Io. Whitgifte Augustine speaketh not of holydayes in that place but of other vnprofitable ceremonies Epist. ad la. 119. vsed in particular Churches neyther grounded of the Scriptures determined by Councels nor confirmed by the custome of the whole Churche But the holydayes that we reteyne béeing not onely confirmed by the custome of the whole Churche but also profitable for the instruction of the people and vsed for publike prayer administration of the Sacramentes and preaching the worde can not be called burdens except it be a burden to serue God in praying in celebrating his sacraments and in hearing his worde And whereas you say that if theyr holydays ours be accounted we shal be found to haue The Iewes had me holydayes than we more thā double as many holydays as they had you speake that whiche you are not able to iustifie In the. 23 of Leuiticus there is appoynted vnto the Iewes the feast of Easter the feast of vnleuened bread the feast of first fruites Whitsontide the feast of trumpets the feast of reconciliation and the feast of Tabernacles whereof the feast of vnleuened bread and the feast of Tabernacles had eche of them seuen dayes annexed vnto them And if you wyll adde to these Iudiths feast chap. 16. the Machabies feast 1. Macha chap. 4. whiche continued eyght dayes togither and Hesters feast chap. 9. whiche continued two dayes you shall finde that
lawfull to reiterate baptisme and furious men of our time vsing thys testimonie haue gone about to bring in Anabaptisme Some men by the name of baptisme vnderstand a new institution vnto whome I do not assent bycause their exposition as it is enforced sauoureth of a shift Others denie that Baptisme was reiterated bycause they had Caluin in 19. Acto bin baptised of some folish imitator of Iohn But bycause their gheasse hath no coloure of truth nay rather the words of Paule do testify that they wer the very true disciples of Iohn and Luke very honorably calleth them the disciples of Christ I do not subscribe vnto thys sentence and yet I denie the baptisme of water to haue bin reiterated bycause the wordes of Luke do sound nothing else but that they were baptised with the spirit First it is no new The name of baptisme transferred to the gifts of the spirit thing to transferre the name of baptisme to the gifts of the spirite as we haue seene in the first and. 11. Chap. where Luke sayd that Christ when he promised to the Apostles the visible sending of the holy Ghost called it baptisme and agayne when the holy Ghost descended vpon Cornelius that Peter remembred the wordes of the Lord you shall be baptised with the holy Ghost Then we see that it is here namely intreated of the visible gifts and that they are conferred and giuen with baptisme But wheras it followeth immediatly that when he had layd his hands vpon them the holy Ghost came I interprete that to be put in the way of exposition for it is the vsuall and familiar manner of speaking in the scripture to propound a matter briefly and after to explicate it more plainly That therfore which for breuitie was somewhat obscure Luke doth better expresse and more largely expound saying that the holy Ghost was giuen them by the imposition of hands If any man obiecte that the name of baptisme when it is vsed for the gifts of the holy Ghost is not put simply but with addition I answer that the meaning of Luke is euidēt enough by the text And further that Luke alludeth to baptisme wherof he had before made mentiō And surely if you should take it for the externall signe it will be absurd that it was giuen vnto them without any better instruction But if metaphorically of the institution the phrase would yet be more hard and the story would not agree that after they were taught the holy Ghost descended vpon them But be it as other some learned men also interprete thys place that in the former parte of the Chapter the baptisme of Iohn is taken for the doctrine of Iohn and in this place for the sacrament of baptisme and that Paule preached before he did administer the same yet doth it not follow that of necessitie there must be preaching before the administration of baptisme The Anabaptists abused this place to the same effect but M. Bullinger doth answer them in this manner VVhereas the Catabaptists ullin in 19. Acto obiect here Therefore doctrine goeth before baptisme no man denyeth it but yet in those that be of yeares of discretion and with whome the name of Christ hath not bin published But agayn whereas the name of Christ hath bin heard of no man can denie but that there the parents being carefull for the saluation of their children do offer them vnto holy baptisme bycause they heare that God is also the God of infants but baptisme 〈◊〉 selfe to be nothing else but the signe of the people of God The third Diuision Ansvver to the Admonition Pag. 90. Sect ▪ And verses 13. 14. 15. it is manifest that he did baptise Christ without preaching This is buta slender proofe you vse thereby to condemne the sinceritie of our sarramentes and administring of them in this Church T. C. Pag. 125. Lin. 13. And whereas you say that it is manifest that our sauiour Christ was baptised without preaching I would know of you what one worde doth declare that when as the contrary rather doth appeare in S. Luke which seemeth to note playnely that our Sauiour Christe was baptised when Luke 3. the people were baptised But the people as I haue shewed were baptised immediatlye after they heard Iohn preache therefore it is lyke that our sauiour Christ was baptised after y t he had heard Iohn preach And it is very probable that our sauiour Christ which did honor the ministery of God by the hand of men so far as he would vouchsafe to be baptised of Iohn would not neglect or passe by his ministery of the word being more precious than that of the Sacramente as it appeareth by Iohn that our Sauiour Christe was present at his sermons for so much as S. Iohn doth as hee was preaching to the people point hym out with the fynger tolde them that he was in the middest Iohn 1. of them which was greater than he Io. Whitgifte First S. Mathewe maketh no mention of it neither can it be gathered by any circūstance of the place Secondly Luke doth not say that Iohn preached immediatly before he baptised But the contrary rather appeareth if S. Luke wryte the story orderly Thirdly to what purpose should he preache to Christe before he baptised him Lastly in the first of Iohn there is not one sentence to proue that Christe was present at any of Iohns sermones for those wordes But there standeth one among you Iohn 1. whome you know not c. do not signifie that he was in that company at that present Sed quod inter eos versabatur that he was conuersant amongst them But if he had bin present doth it therefore followe that the sacramentes may not be ministred without preaching do you make preaching immediatly before the administration of the sacramentes De substantia Sacramentorum of the substance of the Sacramentes The. 4. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 90. Sect. 2. 3. There is no man I thinke which doth not allowe of preaching before Preaching be fore the sacramentes not disalowed the administration of the Sacraments but it is not therewith ioyned tanquam de necessitate sacramenti as of the necessitie of the Sacramente neither is there any thing here alledged for preaching before the administration of the lords supper Indeede we reade not that Christ did preach immediatly before the distribution of the Sacrament of his body bloud to his disciples only he told them that some of them should betraye him that he had greatly desired to eate y e passeouer with thē This I write to shewe your blynde and vnlearned collections not to disalowe preaching in the administration of the Sacramentes T. C. Pag. 125. Lin. 25. And there is no doubt but those wordes which our Sauiour Christe sayd before his supper although they are gathered by the Euangelistes into short sentences were notwithstanding long sermons touching the fruite of his death and vse and ende
doth not only nourish fayth but gēdreth also as I haue proued in my Answere to the Admonition both by the scriptures and other learned writers If it were otherwyse then were the power of persuasion to be ascribed to the preacher and manner of teaching not to the worde which is against that saying of Christe Scrutamini scripturas c. searche the scriptures for in them you thinke to haue eternall life c. and of the Apostle The whole scripture is giuen by inspiration of Iohn 5. 2. Tim. 3 God and is profitable to teache to improue to correct and to instruct in righteousnes that the man of God may be absolute c. I denie not but that preaching is the most ordinary and vsuall meanes that God vseth to worke by in the heartes of the hearers bicause the people be for the most Preaching y e most ordinary meanes and why part ignorant and dull of vnderstanding and therfore haue néede of scholemaisters teachers to open and declare the scriptures vnto them and to deale with them according to their capacitie but this doth nothing derogate from the might and power of the woord of God being read of them or to them that vnderstande it set their heart vpon it If reading were so simple a thing and so little profitable as you would make it why was the Gospell committed to writing why is it thought so expedient to haue it in a toung knowen to the people why do men printe their sermons which they haue preached why did God by Moses commaunde the lawe to be read why did the Prophete Ieremy wyll Baruch to wryte out his sermons and to reade them o the people Do you thinke that there commeth no more knowledge or profit by reading the scriptures than doth by beholding of Gods creatures Then let vs haue Images againe that they may be lay mens bookes as the Papistes call them no doubt attributing as much to the externall and visible creature as they did to the reading of the eternall worde of God wherein you ioyne with them for any thing that I yet sée Chap. 1. the. 5. Diuision T. C. Pag. 126. Lin. 20. And to know that the word of God preached hath more force and is more effecuall than when it is read it is to be obserued wherunto the preaching is compared It is called a lifting or heauing Iohn 3. vp of our Sauiour Christ. Like vnto the displaying of a banner as the Serpent was lift vp in the wildernesse As therefore that which is lifted vp on high is better and easilyer seene of a greater companie than when it standeth or lyeth vpon the grounde or in some valley or some low place so the preaching of the gospell doth offer sooner and easilyer the truth thereof vnto the fayth which is the eye of the hearer than when it is read Io. Whitgifte Where is there any such comparison in that third Chapter of Iohn If you meane these wordes Et nem ascendit in caelum c. Et sicut Moses exaltauit Serpentem c. As Moses Iobn 3. lifted vp the Serpent in the wildernesse c. as you can meane no other then I think you were not well aduised or little cared for your credite when you abused them for this purpose to proue that the worde of God is more effectuall when it is preached than when it is read Surely if you fetch your similitudes so farre and imagine that which was neuer ment and make the scripture a nose of ware as the Papists do you may conclude what you list For how hangeth this togither No man ascendeth vp into heauen but he that discended downe from heauen the sonne of man which is in heauen Ergo sayth commeth by preaching of the worde of God and not by reading of it Or this As Moses lifted vp the Serpent in the desert so must the sonne of man be lifted vp that all that beleeue in him c Therefore the worde of God hath more force when it is preached than when it is read This geare is to profound for me I cānot vnderstand it except I wil imagine that which is not and it may be that you were in some other déepe meditation when you wrote it and so applied this text to a wrong matter for in that place Christ foretelleth of his death and passion whereof the lifting vp of the Serpent Num. 21. in the wildernesse was a figure And although I am not ignorant that some do allegorie vpon this place saying that Christ is lifted vp by the preaching of the Gospell yet that maketh nothing agaynst me who no where denie this effect of preaching And it is a verie harde collection to say Christ is lifted vp by preaching therefore reading letteth him lye on the grounde as though by reading the Gospell Christ is not also lifted vp and made manifest vnto the eyes of the faythfull Chap. 1. the. 6. Diuision T. C. Pag. 126. in the middest It is called also a sweete Sauour and therefore as the spyces being brayed and 〈◊〉 smell 2. Cor. 2 sweeter and stronger than when they be whole and vnbroken so the worde by interpretation being broken and bruysed caryeth a sweeter sauour vnto the vnderstanding than when it is by reading giuen grosse and whole the same also may be sayde in that the preaching is called a cutting of the worde of God for as when the meate is cut and shred it nourisheth more than when it is not 2. Tim. 2. so so likewise it is in preaching and reading Io. Whitgifte Saint Paule speaking of himselfe and of the ministers of the worde sayth thus For we are vnto God the sweete sauour of Christ in them that are saued c. and 2. Tim. 2. Cor. 2. 2. Tim. 2. he admonisheth Timothie to cut the worde of truth rightly that is prudently and according to the capacitie of the hearers What conclude you of this Or what one worde is there in eyther of those places that derogateth any thing from reading Do you thinke that the prayse of preaching is the disprayse of reading As though they were one contrarie to an other and not rather both of them most profitable Is not the worde of God when it is read a sweete sauour Is there not prudencie and discretion required in reading the Scriptures Surely I am sorie that the Papists shall haue so iust cause to iest at your so vnapt alledging of the Scriptures and that they shall be animated in their ridiculous applications of the same by these and such like vntowarde allegations of yours Chap. 1. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Pag. 126. somevvhat past the midst And that which is brought by the Authours of the Admonition and so scornefully hurled away of M. doctor that Saint Paule compareth the preaching vnto pianting and watering is a 1. Cor. 3. very (*) Surely you will make a notable conclusion notable place to proue that there is no saluation
at the other I will not denie but he may be more edisyed at the simple reading than at the Sermon vnlesse it be in this and such like case I knowe not howe it may be true that M. Doctor sayth And indeede it is as much to say that it may be that the meanes that God hath ordeyned to be the fittest and meetest to call men to saluation is not the fittest and meetest meanes which a man shoulde not once so much as thinke of without trembling and shaking euery ioynt of him Io. Whitgifte As absurde as it is Musculus doth affirme it in his common places titu de Lectio sacrae script And as his saying I report it in mine answere beléeuing it to be moste true And therefore if your malice had not béene wholy bent agaynst me you should haue ascribed this absurditie to him or at least haue deuided it betwixt vs and so my backe should haue béene somwhat eased of the burden of absurdityas wherewith you would so gladly ouercharge me God worketh by reading the Scriptures as well as he doth by preaching and God vseth reading as a meanes aswell as preaching vseth that also as a meanes to call men to saluation Read Augustine lib. con 8. cap. 12. and you shall sée that God vsed reading as a meanes to conuert him And surely I maruell that you professing the Gospell can without trembling and shaking speake so basely of reading the worde of God being a thing so precious and so singular a meanes of our saluation but for the thing it selfe I referre it to the iudgement Reading somtune preuayleth more than preaching of those that haue not drunke so déepely of the cuppe of contention as you haue whither it may not sometymes so happen Or whither they whiche are quietly affected may not receyue more edifying by the simple reading of the Sciptures which they vnderstande than by the Sermons of diuerse contentious preachers whose hote and bitter inuectiues which sauour more of malice than of loue of contention than of peace the frute of the Gospell may bréede in the heartes of those that are studious of peace and quietly minded some suspition of the truth of their doctrine Or lastly whither some misdoubting the truth of the doctrine of the preachers of the Gospell and conceyuing a preindicate opinion agaynst them as diuerse Papistes doe may not be more edifyed by diligent reading of the Scriptures of whose authoritie they doe not doubt than by hearing of the Preacher whose wordes they doe eyther mistrust or not regarde by reason of theyr preiudicate opinion agaynst all Preachers and in the ende perceyuing by reading of the Scriptures the truth of their doctrine may bée thereby established which were not by the Sermons once mooued And for this cause Christ sayde Iohn 5. Searche the Iohn 5. Scriptures c. That Reading is Preaching Chap. 2. the. 1. Diuision T. C. Pag. 127. Lin. 13. And nowe I thinke by this tyme M. Doctor knoweth his answere to his seconde question which is whether reading be not preaching ▪ And if this be not sufficient that I haue sayde I woulde aske gladly of him (*) A mere cauil whether all Readers be Preachers and whether whosoeuer readeth preacheth for if it be true which he sayth that reading is preaching then that is lykewise true that all those which reade preache and so a childe of 4. or 5. yeares olde is able to preach bycause he is able to reade Io. Whitgifte I know an answere in déede such as it is but it is much more fit for a Papist or Atheist than for a professor of the Gospell If preaching be taken generally for euerie How reading is preaching kinde of instructing or teaching by the worde of God as it is ad Rom. 10. then is reading preaching But if it be taken in the vsuall signification for him that interpreteth the Scripture teacheth and exhorteth in the Congregation by discoursing vpon the scriptures and applying them as occasion serueth then it is not so and yet no lesse profitable to edifying to such as vnderstande that which is read than preaching To reade the Scriptures is not to preach or teache in respect of him that readeth but in the respect of Gods spirite whiche thereby worketh knowledge in the heart of the Reader or Hearer For we must thinke it to be true that Cyprian sayth VVhen we reade the Scripture God speaketh vnto vs and in this sense a childe that can read may preach that is God by his worde read of a childe may and doth oftentimes teach vs. And hereof we haue God be thanked many examples in Englande of those which béeing not able to reade themselues by the meanes of their children reading to them at home receyue instruction and edifying And if you had béene disposed to haue called to remembrance that which you say you haue so diligently read in M. Foxe you might haue knowne that diuerse in the beginning came to the light of the Gospell onely by reading and hearing the newe Testament in English read which I am sure you will confesse to haue bene to them a preaching and instruction Chap. 2. the. 2. Diuision Admonition By the worde of God it is an office of preaching they make it an office of reading Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 159. Sect. 1. But where doth the booke make the ministerie an office of reading onely Or what contrarietie is there betwixt reading and preaching Nay what difference is there betwixt them If a man A written sermon is preaching shoulde write his Sermon and reade it in the booke to his flocke doth he not preach Is there no Sermons but such as be sayde without booke I thinke to preache the Gospell is to teache and instruct the people in fayth and good maners be it by wryting reading or speaking without booke and I am sure the spirite of God doth worke as effectually by the one of these wayes as it doth by the other Did not Saint Paule preache to the Romaines when he writte to them Was not the reading of Deuteronomie to the people a preaching 2. Reg. 23. Will you so scornefully and so contemptuously speake of the reading of Scripture beeing a thing so frutefull and necessarie T. C. Pag. 127. Lin. 18. And least he shoulde seeme to be thus euill aduised without some reason in the. 159. Page he asketh whether if a man wryte his Sermon and after reade it in the booke that reading be preaching Here is hard shift what if I graunted that it is preaching yet I denie that therefore he that readeth an other mannes Sermon preacheth and further I say that if there be any such as beeing able to preache for his knowledge yet for fault eyther of vtterance or memorie can not doe it but by reading that whiche hee hath written It is not conuenient that hee shoulde bee a Minister in the Churche For Saint Paule doth not require onely that the 1. 〈◊〉 3. Bishoppe
therefore I am bolde to speake as I haue learned out of the holy Scriptures and other godly wryters neyther is this to rende in sunder eyther the Sacraments from the worde or the Sacraments from them selues but to keepe the order vsed in the Churche in the Apostles time and since their time No man that is able to preache béeing for his other qualities also méete is debarred from ministring the Sacraments if he be in the ministerie but no man be he neuer so able in all respectes may presume to take an office vpon him wherevnto he is not called Therefore he that can not preache and yet by the order of the Tract 6. cap. 1. Tract 9. cap. 1 diuis 15. Churche is admitted to minister the Sacraments is a lawfull minister of the same and he that can preache excepte by order he be therevnto called maye not intrude him selfe into any function of the ministerie I haue also declared before that euen from the beginning the administration of the Sacramentes haue béene committed to some to whome the preaching of the worde hathe not béene committed The. 3. diuision Admonition Touching Deacons though their names be remayning yet is the office foully peruerted and turned vpside downe for their duetie in the Primitiue Churche was to (s) Rom. 12. 8. gather the a mes diligently and to distribute it faythfully also for the sicke and impotent persons to prouide paynefully hauing euer a diligent care that the charitie of godly men were not wasted vpon loyterers (t) 2. Th. 3. 10 and idle vagabounds Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 118. Sect. 2. It is true that in the primitiue Churche the office of a Deacon was to collect and prouide for the poore but not only for it was also their office to preache and to baptise For Stephen and Philip beeing Deacons dyd preache the Gospell Acts. 6. 7. 8. And Philip dyd baptise the Eunuche Act. 8. T. C. Pag. 128. Sect. 1. In the. 118. page vnto the example of Philip he addeth S. Stephen whyche was one of the Deacons which he affirmeth to haue preached But I denie it for all that long oration which he hath in the seuenth of the Actes is no sermon but a de ense of him selfe agaynst those accusations whych were layde agaynst hym as (*) No suche thing to be foūd in Beza his annotations M. Beza dothe very learnedly and substantially proue in his annotations vpon those places of S. Stephens disputations and defense Nowe to defende himselfe beeing accused is lawfull not for the Deacons onely but for any other Christian and we reade nothing that Stephen did there eyther touching the defense of his cause or the sharpe rebuking of the obstinate Pharisies and Priestes but that the holy Martyrs of God which were no deacons nor ministers haue done with vs when they haue bene conuented before their persecutors and whereas he ayth that Philip baptised I haue shewed before by what authoritie he dyd it that is not in that he was a Deacon but for 〈◊〉 he was an Euangelist Io. Whitgifte This is a harde and new deuised shifte You imagine as I thinke that you are in Stephen hys oration a serm n. the Logike or Philosophy scholes where you may feyne what distinctions you liste but al wil not serue The accusations are conteyned in the. 13. 14. verse of the. 6. chap. let the Reader compare his sermon with them iudge whether he spake in the way of preaching or of defending himselfe Although a man may make his Apologie in preaching answere accusations in a sermon and surely that sharpe seuere repr hension that he concludeth with beginning at the. 51. verse doth euidently declare that it was a sermon Moreouer it was in the Synagogue which was called the Synagogue of the Libertines c. The ende of it was to proue true religion and the true worshipping of God to be affixed neither to the Temple nor to external ceremonies but to consist of fayth in God And yet I do not deny but that Stephē also did vse this sermon as an answere to those matters wherof he was accused but he answered in the way of preaching not of pleading And that doth M. Gualter directly affirme for Gualter although he cal this an oration a defense yet in the. 8. chap. he proueth by this example of Stephen that Deacōs were permitted togither with the charge of the goods of the Churche and of the poore to preache as I haue shewed before And the Authors of the Centuries speaking of that time say thus It appeareth also out of the. 6. 8. of the Acts Cent. 1. lib. 2. cap. 7. that Deacons did teach And in the same booke chap. Others were Deacons whose office was to serue the tables at Ierusalem so long as there was there a cōmunitie of goods Act. 6. notwithstāding it appeareth by Steuen Act. 6. by Philip Act. 8. that they did teach work myracles euery where in other Churches the office of Deacons was to teach minister I can not finde in M. Beza his Annotatiōs any such thing as you héere affirme Although if it were so yet doth it not improue this to be a sermon for then was the oration of Peters no sermō Act. 2. wherin he answered to those that accused the Apostles of drunkennesse neyther can Paule be sayde to haue preached Act. 24. If this be true that an Apologie may not be made by the way of preaching If it be lawfull thus to inuent distinctions to shift off so manyfest examples of Scriptures then it is an easy matter to shift off any thing that shall be propounded I haue proued by the Scripture it selfe by Epiphanius and by M. Gualter and by the authors of the Centuries that Philip béeing a Deacon dyd bothe baptise and preache and you onely deny it without eyther author or reason The. 4. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 118. Sect. 2. Iustinus Martyr one of the moste auncient wryters in his seconde Deacons helped in the ministration of the supper Apologie sayth that in the administration of the Supper Deacons did distribute the bread and the wine to the people The same dothe M. Caluine affirme of Deacons in his Institutions chap. 19. T. C. Page 128. Sect. 1. 2. 3. He addeth further out of Iustine Martyr that the Deacons dyd distribute the bread and the wyne in the administration of the Supper Tully sayth in a certayne place that it is as greate a poynt of wisedome in an aduocate or pleader of causes to holde back and to keepe close that which is hurtfull to hys cause as it is to speake that which is profitable M. Doctor obserueth none of these poynts for besydes that the things whych he brought for the defense of the seruice booke are suche as they haue before appeared in seeking to defende it he manifestly oppugneth it For before h sayde that the booke of seruice
Interrogatories were ministred to infantes at the time of their Baptisme and that they had sureties which we call godfathers that answered for them and in their name T. C. Pag. 134. Sect. 1. As for S. Augustines place although I can (*) not allow his reason that he maketh nor the proportion that is betweene the sacrament of the body and bloude of our Sauiour Christe and his body and bloude it selfe of one side and betwene the sacrament of Baptisme and fayth of the other side saying that as the sacrament of the body of Christe after a sorte is the body so the baptisme of the sacrament of fayth is after a sort fayth (a) whereas he should haue sayd that as the supper beyng the sacrament of the body of Christe is after a sorre the body of Christe so baptisme beyng a sacrament of the bloude of Christe is after a sorte the bloud of Christe For fayth is not the subiect of Baptisme as the body and bloude of Christ is the matter of the supper Yet I say that S. Augustine hath no one worde to approue this abuse of answering in the childes name and in his person but goeth about to establishe an other abuse which was that it was lawfull for those that presented the chylde to say that it beleeued so that it is lyke that the minister did aske those whiche presented the infant whither they thought that it was faythfull and did beleeue and those which presented it sayde it was so wherevpon this question rose whither it was lawfull to say that the chylde beleeued Io. Whitgifte I neuer hearde that any learned man as yet mislyked this place of Augustine but I knowe they haue vsed it as a moste manifest testimonie agaynst Transubstantiation and the Reall presence and as a true declaration wherefore the sacramentall breade and wyne be called the body and bloude of Christe beyng but the sacramentes of the bodie and bloude of Christe And nowe you with vnwashed handes not vnderstanding the place presume to giue a blinde and vnlearned censure vpon so worthie and learned a Father euen there where he speaketh moste soundly and learnedly But howe should your arrogancie else appeare The supper is a sacrament bothe of the body and bloud of Christe the breade of the body and the Rom. 4. wine of the bloude as S. Augustine there sayeth and Baptisme is truly called by him the Sacrament of fayth bycause it is Signaculum iustitiae fidei as Circumcision the figure of Baptisme was accordyng to the worde of the Apostle ad Rom. 4. and therefore in reprouing S. Augustine for callyng it the Sacrament of fayth you séeme to be ignorant of this place of the Apostle To this saying of Augustine doth that of Tertullian in his booke De Poenitentia very well agrée where he speakyng of Baptisme Tertull. sayeth Lauacrum illud obsignatio est Fidci That washyng is the sealyng of faythe And Chrysostome opere imp Homil. 5. in Matth. sayeth also that Baptisme is the seale of Chrysost. fayth neyther did euer any man before you mislike this kinde and phrase of speache that baptisme is the sacrament of fayth S. Augustines woordes be euident that there were questions in Baptisme moued in the name of the infant whiche coulde not be vnlesse there were also answering to the same Chap. 1. the. 3. Diuision Admonition Thyrdely they prophane holy Baptisme in toying foolishely for that they aske questions of an infante whiche can not answere and speake vnto them as was wonte to be spoken vnto men and vnto such as beyng conuerted answered for themselues and were Baptised Whiche is but a mockerie l Gal 6. 7. of God and therefore agaynst the holy Scriptures Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 192. Sect. 1. 2. To the thirde superstitious toy as you call it that is the questions demaunded of the Infant at the tyme of Baptisme I haue also answered Augustine alloweth questions to the infant out of S. Augustine in the firste parte where it may also appeare that this manner of questionyng was vsed in the Baptising of Infantes long before Augustines tyme for Dionysius Areopagita maketh mention of them in like manner To proue that this questioning with the infant is a mocking of God you quote Galat. 6. verse 7. Be not deceyued God is not mocked for vvhatsoeuer a man sovveth that shall he reape Paule in this place taketh away excuses which worldlinges vse to make for not nourishing theyr pastours for no feyned excuse will serue bycause God is not mocked But what is this to the questionyng with infantes howe followeth this God is not mocked Ergo he that questioneth with Infantes mocketh God Truely you mocke God when you so dally with his Scriptures and seeke rather the glorie of quoting of many places of Scripture than the true applying of any one T. C. Pag. 134. Sect. 2. In the. 191. and. 192. pages he speaketh of this agayne but he bothe nothing else but repeate in bothe places that whiche is here onely he sayeth that it is a mockyng of God to vse the place of the Galatians God is not mocked agaynst this abuse and his reason is bycause S. Paule speaketh there agaynst those that by feyned excuses seeke to defraude the Pastor of his liuyng as who shoulde saye S. Paule did not conclude that particular conclusion thou shalte not by friuolous excuses defraude the minister with this generall saying God is not mocked for his reason is God is not mocked at all or in any matter therefore he is not mocked in this or as who shoulde say bycause our Sauiour Christe saying that it is not lawfull to separate that whiche God hath ioyned speaking of diuorce it is not lawfull to vse this sentence beyng a generall rule in other thinges when as we knowe it is as well and properly vsed agaynst the Papistes which seuere the cup from the breade as agaynst the Iewes which put away their wiues for euery small and triflyng cause Io. Whitgifte In déede it is a very mocking of God thus to abuse the Scriptures for the Authours of the Admonition alleage this text to proue that to question with Infantes is to mocke God when there is not one worde in that place spoken of questioning with infantes and therefore this texte is alleaged without purpose except you will say that it is quoted onely for the Phrase and manner of speakyng It is true that God is not mocked but this proueth not that questioning in Baptisme is to mocke God and therefore vaynely it is applied Those which seuer the cuppe from the bread in the Lordes Supper do separate that which God hath coupled and therefore that text may well be alleaged agaynst them but suche as question in Baptisme in the name of those that are to be baptised do not mocke God and therefore that texte is in the Admonition altogither abused Chap. 1. the. 4. Diuision T. C. Pag. 134. Sect. vlt. And as for this
with what name those notes are called which are cyted of M. Doctor for the defense of these corruptions they are called by M. Doctors owne confession Censures which worde signifieth and implyeth as much as corrections and controlments of the booke of seruice and therefore we may take this for a generall rule throughout the whole booke of Seruice that in whatsoeuer things in controuersie M. Doctor doth not bring Bucers authoritie to confirme them that those things Bucer mislyked of as for example in priuate Baptisme and Communions ministerd in houses for interrogatories ministred to Infants and such lyke for so muche as they are not confirmed here by M. Bucers iudgement it may be thought that he mislyked of them and no doubt if eyther M. Bucers notes had not either condemned or misliked of diuerse things in the Seruice booke we shoulde haue had the notes printed and set forth to the full This I thought in a worde to admonish the reader of Io. Whitgifte To your first cauill I haue answered before where you made the same To your seconde of master Bucers Censures though the booke be not so intituled the M. Bucers Censures vppon the first booke in king Edwardes time answere is short and plaine it was his iudgement vppon the first Communion booke in the time of king Edwarde wherein he misliked some things but alloweth both priuate Baptisme and the Communion ministred to the sicke as I before declared and you might haue remembred if your memorie had not fayled you Chap. 3. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Pag. 135. Sect. 4. Unto M. Bucers authoritie I could here oppose men of as great authoritie yea the authoritie of all the reformed Churches which shal also be done afterwarde And if there were nothing to oppose but the worde of God which will haue the Sacraments ministred simplie and in that sinceritie that they be left vnto vs it is enough to make all men to couer their faces and to be ashamed if that which thy shall speake be not agreeable to that simplicitie The reasons which M. Bucer bringeth I will answere wh ch in this matter of crossing are two first that it is auncient and so it is in deede For Tertullian maketh mention of this vsage Li. de resurrect carnis And if this be sufficient to proue the goodnesse of it then there is no cause why we shoulde mislyke of the other superstitions and corruptions which were likewise vsed in those tymes For the same Li. de corona militis Tertullian sheweth that they vsed also at baptisme to taste of milke and honie and not to washe all the weeke after they had ministred baptisme Io. Whitgifte These be but wordes without proofe Crossing in that maner and forme that we vse it verie well agréeth with the simplicitie of the worde of God If it doe not so shewe any worde agaynst it Your answere to that reason is very base for it is not onely auncient but it hath continued and béene generally receyued which you allowed before as a sufficient reason for Godfathers As for milke and honie the vse of them was neyther continued long nor yet generall and therefore the reason of them and of the other is not lyke Chap. 3. the. 4. Diuision T. C. Pag. 135 Sect. vlt. But here I will note the cause wherevppon I suppose this vse of crossing came vp in the Primitiue Churche whereby shall appeare howe there is no cause nowe why it it should be reteyned if there were any why it shoulde be vsed in the Primitiue Churche It is knowne to all that haue read the Ecclesiasticall stories that the Heathen did obiect to the Christians in tymes past in reproche that the God which they beleeued of was hanged vpon a Crosse. And they thought good to testifie that they were not ashamed therefore of the same God by the often vsing of the signe of the Crosse which carefulnesse and good mynde to keepe amongest them an open profession of Christ crucifyed although it be to be commended yet is not this meanes so for they might otherwise haue kept it and with lesse daunger than by this vse of crossing and if they thought the vse of the Crosse to be the best meanes yet they shoulde not haue beene so bolde as to haue brought it into the holy Sacrament of Baptisme and so mingle the ceremonies and inuentions of men with the Sacramentes and institution of God And as it was brought in vpon no good grounde so the Lord left a marke of his curse of it and whereby it might be perceyued to come out of the forge of mans brayne in that it beganne forthwith while it was yet in the swadling cloutes to be superstitiously abused For it appeareth by Tertullian also in the same booke de Corona militis that the Christians had such a superstition in it that they woulde doe nothing nor take nothing in hande vnlesse they had crossed them when they went out when they came in when they sat or lay downe and when they rose and as Superstition is alwayes strengthned and spreddeth it selfe with the time so it came from crossing of men vnto crossing of euerie thing that they vsed Wherevpon Chrysostome commendeth the crossing of the Cuppe before a man drinke Vpon the 1. Tim. 4. cap. and of the meate before it was eaten But if it were graunted that vppon this consideration which I haue before mencioned the auncient Christians did well yet it followeth not that wee shoulde so doe for we liue not amongest those Nations whiche doe cast vs in the teeth or reproche vs with the Crosse of Christ. If we liued amongst the Turkes it were an other matter and then there might peraduenture some question be whether we shoulde doe as they did and hauing the same sore vse the same playster But nowe we liue among the Papistes that doe not contemne the crosse of Christ but which esteeme more of the woodden crosse than of the true crosse of Christ which is his sufferings we ought nowe to doe cleane contrariewise to the olde Chrystians and abolishe all vse of these crosses for contrarie diseases must haue contrarie remedyes if therefore the olde Christians to delyuer the crosse of Christ from contempt did often vse the crosse the Christians nowe to take away the superstitious estimation of it ought to take away the vse of it Io. Whitgifte I thinke your supposition in parte to bée true I am also perswaded that the originall cause of vsing this signe was lawfull and good and yet the thing if selfe afterwardes abused and the cause of vsing is cleane altered and wholy conuerted to superstition but the abuse béeing taken away I sée no cause why it may not be vsed in Baptisme in that manner and forme as it is in this Churche of Englande that is In token that hereafter he shall not be ashamed to confesse the fayth of Christ crucified and manfully to fight vnder his banner agaynst sinne the worlde
of your profession shoulde be ignorant in the nature and definition of a Sacrament A Sacrament I meane not in the largest signification but as it is properly vsed and as we call the Lordes Supper and Baptisme Sacramentes For Sacramentes in the proper signification be mysticall signes ordeyned by God himselfe consisting in the worde of The proper signification of sacraments God in figures and in things signified whereby he keepeth in mannes memorie and sometymes renueth his large benefites bestowed vpon his Church whereby also he sealeth or assureth his promises and sheweth outwardly and as it were layeth before oure eyes those things to beholde which inwardly he worketh in vs yea by them he strengthneth and increaseth our fayth by the holy Ghost working in our heartes And to be short by his Sacramentes he separateth vs from all other people from all other religions consecrating vs and binding vs to him onely and signifyeth what he requyreth of vs to be done Nowe euerie ceremonie signifying any thing hath not these conditions and propertyes Euery signifying ceremonie is not a acrament Wherefore euerie ceremonie signifying any thing is not a Sacrament and therefore crossing in Baptisme though it signifyeth some thing yet it is no Sacrament The allegory of sitting is dombe and speaketh nothing but to the signe of the crosse is added the signification in expresse woordes as I haue before declared wherefore there is more cause to condemne the one than there is to cōdemne the other More uer sitting at the Lordes supper hath not bene vsed in the Churche that I can reade of but crossing in baptising hath wherefore that were to inuent a newe Ceremonie and this is to reteyne the olde so that the reason of their allegorie and of this Ceremonie is not lyke Of refusing yle in baptisme the Churche hath iust cause and it vseth hir libertie in reteyning crossing neyther will it burden the Sacramentes with a multitude of vnnecessary and vnprofitable Ceremonies and yet reteyne such as shall be thought moste conuenient Chap. 3. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Pag. 137. Lin. 3. And to conclude I see no cause why some crosses should be vnlawefull and other some commendable and why it should be a monument of Popery in woode and metall and yet a Christian badge in the forehead of a man why we should not lyke of it in streates and hyghewayes and yet allowe of it in the churche Io. Whitgifte As there is great difference betwixt the paynting of an Image to sette foorth an historie and placing of it in the Churche to be worshipped so is there also as great difference or more betwixt crossing a childe in the forehead at the time of baptisme with expressing the cause and vse of it and the placing of crosses in Churches or highways and streates The crossing of the childes forehead is but for a moment the crosse of wood and stone remayneth and continueth the crosse in the childes forehead is not made to be adored and worshipped neyther was euer any man so madde as to imagine any such thing of it but the crosses in churches streates and highwayes of mettall and woode were erected to be worshipped and were so accordingly and therefore there is no like perill in the one as there is in the other ¶ Of the parties that are to be Baptised Chap. 4. The first Diuision Admonition ▪ That the parties to be baptised if they be of the yeares of (p) Math. 6. discretion by them selues and in their owne persones or if they be infantes by theyr parentes in whose rooine if vpon necessary occasion they be absent some one of the congregation knowyng the good behauiour and sounde faythe of the par tes may both make rehersall if theyr faythe and also if their fayth be sounde agreable to holy scriptures desyre to be in the same baptised And finally that nothyng be done in this or any other thing but that which you haue the expresse warrant of Gods worde for Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 111. Sect. 1. 2. I muse what you meane to saye on this sorte The parties to be baptised Of those that are to be baptised if they be of the yeares of discretion c. You knowe that in this Church of England none tarry for baptisme so long except it be in some secrete congregation of Anabaptistes The place alledged out of the third of Matthew telleth how they that were baptised cōfessed their sinnes it speaketh nothing of any confession of faith It is well that you admitte some to answere for the infant in the Of the parēts answering or their children absence of the parent and why not in his presence to what scripture haue you that the Parent at the baptising of his childe should make a rehersall of his fayth and desire that his childe should bee therein baptised this I desire to knowe for myne owne learning for I neither remember any such thing in scripture neither yet in any auncient wryter I do herein but desire to be instructed T. C. Pag. 139. Lin. 6. And bicause I would haue all those thyngs togither that touche this matter of baptisine I come to that which he hath in the next Section and in III. page where after his olde manner he wrangleth and quarrelleth For although the Admonition speaketh so playnely and so clearely that as Hesiod sayth it myght 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 satisfie Momus yet M. Doctor goeth about there to bryng it in suspicion of Anabaptisme bicause allowing in playne wordes the baptisme of infantes they adde that if the parties be of discretion and yeares them selues in their own persons should demaunde to be baptised For sayth he in this Church they tary not for baptisme so long But is ther no cause or may there not be when they that be of age may be baptised It may be there are Iewes in Englande which vnderstanding their blyndnes and confessing their synne may desyre to be baptised and here be dyuers Mores in noble mens gentlemens houses which are sometimes brought to the knowledge of Christe whereby th re is some vse and practise of this case Io. Whitgifte Anabaptisme being so crafty an heresy that it dissembleth many things vntill it Anabaptisme a crafty heresy haue sufficient ayde a man can not be to suspicious of it especially in those that walke in steppes so lyke vnto it And yet I speake nothing in that place that may bryng the A thours of the Admonition into suspicion of Anabaptisme vnlesse they suspect them selues or that you would haue them suspected for you knowe the olde prouerbe Conscius ipse sibi c. It may be in deede that there be Iewes in Englande Mores Turkes 〈◊〉 and that some of them being conuerted to the fayth be afterward baptised and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is so but the case is very rare and there is no man that doubteth but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be examined in their fayth before they be admitted to
I know But let vs a little better cōsider your assertions and marke your drifte Page 34. you saye that there are no whoremongers nor Pag. 34. Sect. 1 drunkardes in the churche that are knowem bycause the churche doth excommunicate them wherby you seme to runne headlong into this heresye of the Anabaptistes that that is not the Churche of Christe in the whiche are knowen drunkardes and whoremongers no excommunication vsed against them The whiche heresye is well and learnedlye Caluine Bullinger confuted by M. Caluine in his booke against the Anabap. and by M. Bullinger likewyse Lib. 6. cap. 10. aduersus Anabap. Moreouer this your assertion séemeth to bring in rebaptisation For if whoremongers The assertion of the Replier tendeth to rebaptisation drunkardes and such lyke wycked persones by excommunication be so cut of from the Churche that their children may not be baptised then must it followe that their baptisme is cut of also which if it be true howe can they vpon repentance be admitted againe except they be rebaptised and what is this else but to make baptisme to be iterated as the Lorde ▪ supper is when as by the consent of all the Churches Baptisme once ministred remaineth per petuall there is but one baptisme wherewith it is sufficient once to be Christened séeing that baptisme once receyued doth endure for euer as a perpetuall signe of our adoption And how can you allowe the baptisme of heretikes to be good if you disallowe the baptising of their children that be excommunicated may an heretike excommunicated baptise and is that baptisme good and may not the children of hym that is excommunicated receyue the sacrament of baptisme can any faulte of the parentes hauing once receyued the scale of the couenant seclude their chyldren from rcceyuing the same seale you haue neyther example nor precept in scripture to iustifie your assertion with it is against the nature of the sacrament the practise of the Church and the whole consent of learned wryters some fewe excepted which erred in rebaptisation and yet you boldely here set it downe without any further proofe at all S. Augustine in his booke Contraepist Parme. reasoneth wholy to the contrary for there he proueth that heretikes whiche cut of them selues from the Churche do neyther Heretikes loose not their baptisme amittere baptismum nor ius dandi baptismum that is neither leese their baptisme nor authoritie to baptise and therevpon concludeth against rebaptisation whiche must néedes followe if eyther of the other be taken away The Donatistes them selues were at the length compelled to confesse that heretikes deuided from the churche did not amitte e bapt smum leese their baptisme And in the same booke August hath this generall sentence That the faulte of such heretikes is in cutting of them selues from the churche which may be corrected by returning againe to the churche non in sacramentis quae vbicunque sunt ipsa vera sunt not in the sacramentes which wheresoeuer they are are true This being so as it is then are you very nere to Donatisme nay farre beyonde it in The Replier nere to Donatis e. saying that the chyldren of the heretykes and suche as by excommunication are cut of from the Churche maye not be baptised Surelye if the Parentes beyng heretikes and cut of from the Churche do notwithstanding Retinere baptismum keepe styll their baptisme as Saint Augustine sayeth I sée not howe by any meanes you can iustifie the secluding of theyr chyldren from being baptysed or if otherwyse I can not sée howe a Papiste beyng conuerted can bee receyued into the Churche without he bée anewe baptysed or howe suche chyldren of knowen Papistes and excommunicate persones as haue bene baptised in this Churche of Englande or else ◠here from the beginning of the Gospell to this daye can be coumpted Christians vnlesse they be rebaptised And concernyng Papistes whome you haue denyed to bée in the Churche Pag. 34. Sect. vii and to whose chyldren also you here denye baptisme I wyll aske you but this one question what you thynke of all those whiche are not onelye chyldren to professed and knowen Papistes but baptised also in the Romishe Churche for if the chyldren of knowen Papistes may not be baptysed what shall wée saye of our selues and of our Parentes and predecessours who all or the moste of them were professed Papistes is not this the grounde of Rebaptisation and Anabaptisme But that the Reader maye the better vnderstande your erroure and the rather beléeue it to be an errour in dée I wyll set downe M. Beza his opinion of this matter from whome you are lothe I am sure to be thought to dissent In his booke of Epistles Epist. 10 answering this question whether the infantes of suche as are excommunicated Beza li. Epist. Epist. 10. may be baptised and in whose fayth when as they of whome they are begotten are not members of the Churche determineth thus God forbidde that we should iudge all one and a lyke of all suche as are not called the members of the Churche for there are foure kyndes of men farre differing among them selues One is of them whiche neyther by election neyther in them selues are by anye meanes the members of Christe whome we cal by the worde of God reprobate and the vessels of anger and appointed to destruction although many of them sometime in apparance that is in outwarde profession yea and a certayne semblance of faythe continuing for a tyme wherewith they mocke both them selues and other are reckened among the members of the Churche of whome Iohn sayeth if they had bene of vs they would haue taryed with vs. The seconde is of those whiche are chosen in Christe by eternall election and therefore are the members of Christe yet by purpose onelye not in deede in whiche sense Paule sayth that he was seuered from his mothers wombe when as notwithstanding hee was a long tyme the member of Sathan persecuting Christ and in an other place sayeth that grace was giuen vs in Christe before euerlasting tymes and agayne that God loued vs when we were his enemies In the thyrde kynde wee counte them that bothe by election and in deede are the sonnes of God bycause as the Apostle sayth they are ruled by the spirite of God Finally in the fourth place wee recken those who whereas they appertayne to the election of God and be engraffed in Christ yet bycause hauing fallen in some thing as men often doe they be an offence to the other members therefore least the wound should bee deadlye whiche Sathan and the fleshe hath gyuen them neede a more sharpe remedye and are therfore excommunicated or delyuered to Sathan not that they should peryshe for it is not possible that they should peryshe whiche are the members of Christe But that godlye sorowefulnesse may cause repentance eyther that their fleshe that is the olde man dying their spirite may be saued in the daye of the
seyng Esau himselfe receyued the signe of the couenant notwithstanding he was before reiected Rom. 9. And that his posteritie were not so farre estraunged from the people of God as those that neuer were in the Churche it may appeare by that which is written in Deutronomie where the Israelites are willed to acknowledge them for their Deut. 23. vers 7. 8. The papistes ly e o the 〈◊〉 v der Ieroboani c. Brethren and to admitte their children in the thirde Generation into the congregation of the Lorde And yet are not the Papistes like vnto Ismael and Esau but rather the same with the Israelites vnder Ieroboam c. for as they professed the lawe of Moses had circumcision and were not in all poyntes straunge from the fayth of the Iewes but yet ioyned therevnto Idolatrie and the false worshipping of God euen so the Papistes pretende the lawe of God vse the Sacramentes professe Christianitie and are not in all poyntes straunge from Christian fayth but yet haue corrupted the same with idolatrous worshipping and diuerse other kindes of superstition and errours Therefore sayeth M. Beza very well in the wordes before recited Beza Epist. 10. Papismus est Ecclesiae Christianae aberratio Papisme is the erring of the Christian Churche And Ecclesia est velut immersa in Papatu quod de Turcis dici nullo modo potest qui nunquà m Cbristo nomen dederunt the Churche is as it were couered or drowned in Papisme whiche can by no meanes be sayde of Turkes whiche neuer gaue their names to Christe or professed Christianitie Wherefore if you had made a right comparison you should not haue compared them to Ismaell and Esau but to the reuolting Israelites as M. Martyr dothe saying thus expresly Quales olim Israelitae c. Such are the Martyr in 3. cap. 1. Reg. Papistes at this day if they be compared with the professours of the Gospell as were the Israelites in respect of the Iewes But full well you knewe that in so doing your errour would soone haue bene espied for though the Israelites were separated from the true Churche yet were not their children cut of from the couenaunt or debarred from the signe thereof The poyson which you say we nowe see and that lieth hid vnder these woordes is The poyson that is hidde in the Repliers doctrine the debarring of children from Baptisme for their parentes offences beyng baptised and rebaptisation Both which you do in more playne manner affirme than the Admonition doth and therefore for triacle to cure these venemous diseases I sende you to the learned workes of S. August Contra epist. Parmeniani de Baptis contra Donatistas of M. Bullinger Zuinglius Caluine and others which haue written against these poysoned poynts of the Anabaptistes and Donatistes ¶ Of the Seigniorie or gouernment by Seniors Tract 17. VVhether there vvere such as the Admonition calleth Seniors in euery Congregation Chap. 1. the. 1. Diuision T. C. Pag. 138. Sect. 1. As though M. Doctor were at vtter defiaunce with all good order and methode of writing Of Seniors that which was giuen him orderly by the Admonition he hath turned vpsidedowne For where the Admonition speaketh first of the Elders then of that which is annexed vnto them which is the discipline whereof excommunication is a part considering that the subiect is in nature before that which is annexed vnto it M. Doctor hath turned it cleane cōtrary and first speaketh of excommunication and then of the Elders I will therfore that the reader may the easelier vnderstand that which is sayd folow the order of the Admonition and first of all speake of the Elders or Seniors which ought to be in the Churche and in speaking of them I muste call to remembrance that diuision which I made mention on before that is of those which haue care and gouerne the whole congregation some there be which do bothe teach the worde and gouerne also some which do not teache but onely gouerne and be ayders in the gouernment vnto those which do teache This diuision is moste manifestly set forth in the Epistle vnto Timothe where he sayeth the Elders 1. Tim. 5. which rule well are worthy of double honour and especially those whiche labour in the worde and doctrine where he maketh by playne and expresse wordes two sortes of Elders the one whiche doth both gouerne and teache the other which gouerneth onely These therefore are the Seniors which are meant whose office is in helping the Pastor or Bishop in the gouernment of that particular Churche where they be placed Pastors and Elders Io. Whitgifte It is no rare matter in handling any thing first to entreate of that which is natura posterius and we sée it commonly so vsed by Logicians who firste treate of that parte which is called Iudicium then of the other which is called Inuentio notwithstanding Inuentio in nature is before Iudicium But I will not spende incke and paper in answering so vayne a cauillation The truth is that I in mine Answere follow the order of the Admonition For I proue that it was not the office of those Seniors to gouerne the Church c. bycause they had nothing to do with excōmunication being the chiefest discipline in the Church seing the execution therof was committed to the Minister of the worde onely So that I first take away authoritie frō their Seniors then answere the places which they abuse for the establishing of their authoritie My woordes be these What Scripture haue you to proue that such Seniors as you meane and Deacons had any thing to do in Ecclesiasticall discipline but all this is from the purpose Your diuision of Seniors though I know that it hath learned Patrones yet do I not vnderstande howe it agreeth with the woorde of God for if we consider the writinges of the Apostles it will euidently appeare that Presbyter is vsually taken for Episcopus or Minister or Pastor Presbyter vsually taken for a minister 1. Pet. 5. Act. 20. Tit. 1. as 1. Pet. 5. Presbyteros qui inter vos sunt bortor qui sum ipse Presbyter c. pascite c. The Elders which are among you I besech which am my selfe also an Elder c Feede the the flocke c. And in the Act. S. Paule calleth the same men Seniors and Bishops and by Seniors meaneth none other than Bishops and Pastors as it is euident in that place Likewise ad Titum 1. he sayeth that Titus was lefte at Creta vt constituat opidatim presbyteros That he should appoynt Elders in euery citie And declaring what qualities they ought to haue he addeth Oportet Episcopum immunem esse à crimine c. A Bishop must be vnreproueable c. Whereby it is manifest that he taketh them bothe for one The onely place that hath any shewe for the proofe of your distinction is that Two kindes of Presbyteri 1. Tim. 5. 1. Tim. 5. Presbyteri
qui bene praesunt c. The Elders that rule well are worthie double honour specially they which labour in the worde and doctrine Where although S. Paule maketh a distinction of Seniors yet it is certayne that vnder the name of Seniors he doth comprehende such onely as be Ministers of the woorde or Sacramentes Tract 9. cap. 1. the. 15. diuisiō Tract 6. Cap. 1. And I haue before sufficiently proued that the administration of the Sacramentes may be committed to some to whome the preachyng of the woorde of God is not committed And this distinction of Ministers doth this place 1. Timot. 5. very well iustifie for vnlesse the Apostle S. Paule had ment that of Ministers some preached some onely ministred the Sacramentes he woulde not haue sayde Maximè qui laborant sermone doctrina onely but qui laborant sermone administratione Sacramentorum for so shoulde he playnely haue declared that there were some Presbyteri whiche did neyther labour in Preaching nor in the Administration of the Sacramentes This same distinction of ministers is also iustified by that whiche the Apostle speaketh 1. Corinth 1. Non misit me Christus vt Baptizarem c. Meaning 1. Cor. 1. bycause the worde was the greater therefore he might not leaue the greater for the lesse Nowe if all they that baptized had the gifte of preaching also why might not and ought not they in like manner to say Christe sent vs not to baptize but to preach S. Ambrose writing vpon these woordes Aduersus Presbyterum c. Agaynst an Ambrose 1. Tim. 5. Elder receyue no accusation c. Which immediately follow the other doth vnderstand thereby Ministers and Priestes onely for he calleth them Vicarios Christi Christes vicars and Antistites Dei Gods Prelates So doth M. Caluine in like manner expound Caluin in 1. Tim. 5. the same woorde of Pastors and Teachers I know that in the exposition of this sentence Qui bene praesunt presbyteri c. he maketh two kindes of Seniors but yet doth he Instit. Cap. 8. Sect. 52. where he purposely speaketh of Seniors say that they were all preachers Neyther do I sée any cause why this woorde Presbyter shoulde not in both these places be taken in one and the same signification Chrysostome also if Chrysost. his woordes be well marked vpon this place of Timoth. Presbyteri qui bene praesunt c. it will appeare that he doth not extende this woorde Presbyter to any other than to Ministers of the woorde and Sacramentes The woordes of Ierome be playne for expounding these woordes Maximè qui laborant Ierome c. He sayeth thus Non dixit omnium qui habent verbum sed qui laborant in verbo Caeterùm omnes habentes praecipit ordinare He sayeth not of all that haue the worde but that labour in the worde But he commaunded him to ordeyne all that haue the worde And surely I haue not read this woorde in any auncient Historie or Father commonly taken in any other signification Chap. 1. the. 2. Diuision Admonition In steade of Chancelours Archdeacons Officialls Commissaries Proctors Doctors summoners Churchwardens and such lyke you haue to place in euery congregation a lawfull and godly Seigniorie Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 125. Sect. 1. But I pray you do thus much for me first proue that there was Certaine questions deman̄ded to be proued in euery cōgregation such as you call Seniors when you haue done that thē shew me that that office kind of regimēt ought to be perpetuall and not rather to be altered according to the state and condition of the Churche last of all that those Seniors were lay men as we call them and not rather ministers of the worde and Bishops When you haue satisfied my request in these three pointes then wil I proceede further in this matter T. C. Pag. 138. In the midst Now that it is knowne what these Seniors be in entreating of them I am contēt to answere M. Doctor three requestes which he maketh in the 125. page where he desireth that one would do so much for him as first to shewe that these Seniors were in euery congregation secondarily he will haue it proued that this regiment is perpetuall and not to be altered last of all he desireth to know whether these Seniors werelay men and not rather ministers of the worde and Bishops This last is a fonde request and such as is already answered but he muste be followed For the first therefore which is that there were Seniors in euery congregation although M. Doctor in the. 114. page in the. 132. page cōstrayned by Ambrose authoritie confesseth it in plaine wordes yet bycause he requireth it to be shewed and maketh a iest at those places which are alleaged out of the scripture to proue it some thing must be spoken thereof Io. Whitgifte You builde your platforme vpon marueylous slender proofes except the Reader will beleue your bare woordes he shal finde great scarcitie of any other argumentes For where haue you as yet proued your opinion of Seniors to be true The place of S. Paule 1. Tm. 5 doth not helpe you being otherwise taken expoūded of the aunciēt fathers but I will follow your rase The last question you say is fond already answered Answered as yet it is not and the fondnesse of it will appeare by the wisedome of your answere hereafter The woordes of Ambrose be that the Synagogue after the church had Seniors c. in 1. Tim. 5. but he sayeth not that euery seuerall congregation had Seniors for it was not so among the Iewes Therefore it cannot be gathered of Ambrose that euery particular parish had Seniors Neyther is there any auncient Author that affirmeth it Touching the hauing of Seniors in the Church why it was then conuenient and is not so now I haue declared in the Answere to the Admonition Chap. 1. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Pag. 138. Somevvhat past the midest The first place is in the Actes which is that Paule Barnabas did appoynt by election Elders Act. 14. in euery congregation but it is (*) A 〈◊〉 not like they did appoynt diuerse ministers or Bishops which preached in euery congregation which were not to be had for such a number of congregations as were then to be preached vnto therefore in euery congregation there were besides those that preached other Elders which did onely in gouernment assist the pastors which preached And what should we folow coniectures here when S. Paule doth in the place before alleaged declare 1. Tim. 9. what these elders are Io. Whitgifte If you haue no stronger place to cōfirme your Seniors by than this they will fall The place Actes 14. proueth nothing for Seniors flat to the ground For it is most certayne that Luke in this place by Presbyteros doth only meane Pastors and Preachers of the woorde as he doth also through the whole Actes
speaking of Christians and it is a straunge matter that you dare be bolde to grounde any point of gouernment or doctrine vpon so simple slender coniectures For what reason call you this Paule Barnabas did appoynt by election elders in euery congregation c. but it is not lyke they did appoint diuerse ministers or Bishops which preached in euery congregation c. therefore in euery congregation there were besides those that preached other elders c. First I say that this argument doth consist only vpō a vaine cōiecture for it might be that the number of Preachers were suche that euery congregation where Paule Barnabas had to do might haue mo preachers than one But Lorde what moueth you to play the Sophister in so serious a cause so to dally in a matter so manifest for how can you conclude by any thing here spoken that Paule and Barnabas did ordeyne mo than one Pastor or Presbyter in one congregation for this that is sayde that they ordeyned Elders or ministers in euery congregation doth not importe that they ordeyned mo than one in euery congregation but that they ordeyned for diuers congregations diuerse ministers that is for euery congregation a Pastor Doth not the Apostle S. Paule ad Tit. 1. vse the like kinde of speache when he sayde Tit. 1. vnto him For this cause I left thee at Creta c. Vt constituas opidatim presbyteros c Where it is manifest as I sayde before that he meaneth Bishops and Pastors and yet his intent was not that Titus should appoynt for euery congregation many Pastors This is méere cauilling but to cut of all other doubtes M. Caluine is sufficient to determine this controuersie who expounding this place of the. 14. Acto doth vnderstand it of Pastors only Preachers His woordes be these Presbyteros bic vocari interpretor Caluine quibus iniunctum erat docendi munus I interprete those here to be called Presbyteros vnto whome the office of preaching was committed And a litle after Now whereas Luke sayth that they were appoynted ouer seuerall churches thereof may the difference betwene their office and the office of the Apostles be gathered for the Apostles had in no place any certayne abiding but went from place to place alwayes to found new churches but Pastors were euery where addicted to their proper Churches So saith Brentius likewise Constituerunt Brentius per singulas Ecclesias Presbyteros quos aliàs scriptura Episcopos aliàs Pastores vocat They appoynted thorough euery congregation Elders whom the scripture sometimes calleth Bishops sometimes Pastors So that this place of the Actes speaketh not one woorde of your Seniors And therefore you cannot expound it by that in the. 1. Tim. 5. though it serued your purpose as it doth not For Luke to my remembrance no where in the Actes doth take this woorde Presbyter for any other than such as haue authoritie to preach the worde minister the sacramēts except he meaneth y e elders of the Iewes Chap. 1. the. 4. Diuision Admonition Let vs come now to the third part which concerneth ecclesiasticall discipline the officers that haue to deale in this charge are chiefely three Ministers Preachers or Pastors of whom before Seniors or Elders and Deacons Concerning Seniors not only their office but their name also is out of this English Church vtterly remoued Theyr office was to q Act. 14. 4. 1. Cor. 12. 28. gouerne the church with the reste of the Ministers to consulte to admonish to correct and to order all thinges apperteyning to the state of the congregation Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 113. Somevvhat past the midst To proue that the office of Seniors was to gouerne the Churche with the rest of the ministers to consulte to admonish to correct and to order al things apperteyning to the state of the congregation you alleage Act. 14. the. 1. Corinth 12. In the 14. of the Actes it is writtē that Paule Barnabas ordeyned Elders at Antioche in euery Churche but there is not one worde spoken of their office therefore that text serueth not your purpose You haue alleaged this selfe same place twice before to proue that no minister of the worde ought to be placed in any congregation but by consent of the people that the election of ministers ought to be by the congregation now you alleage it to proue the office of your Seniors can it both be meant of Seniors and of the ministers of the worde being as you say distinct offices will you thus dally with the scripture and make it a nose of waxe as the Papistes terme it to wreast and wryth it which way you list here you must needes confesse eyther contradiction in your selues or falsification T. C. Pag. 138. Tovvardes the ende But M. Doctor sayth that there is no mention made of the office of such an Elder therefore that place maketh nothing to proue that there should be such Elders in euery congregation so M. Doctor write he careth not what he wryte Belike he thinketh the credite of his degree of Doctorship will giue waight to that which is light and pith to that which is frothe or else he woulde neuer answere thus For then I will if this be a good reason say that for so much as S. Luke doth not in that place describe the office of the Pastor or Bishop which preacheth the worde therefore that place proueth not that in euery congregation there should be a bishop or a Pastor Besides that M. Doctor taketh vp the Authours of the Admonition for reasoning negatiuely of the testimonie of all the Scriptures and yet he reasoneth negatiuely of one only sentence in the Scripture (*) An vntruth for he maketh no such conclusion For the would cōclude that for so much as there is no duety of a Senior described in that place therefore there is no duetie at all and consequently no Senior Io. Whitgifte The Authors of the Admonition Fol. 112. to proue that the office of the Senior was to gouerne the Churche with the rest of the ministers to c nsulte to admonish to correct and to order all thinges apperteyning to the state of the congregation alleage the. 14. of the Actes vers 4. 1. Cor. 12. vers 28. I declare in mine Answere how vnaptly these places are alleaged for that purpose beyng not one woorde there spoken of any such office of Seniors as it may appeare in the woordes themselues beyng placed before Nowe whether I make any suche reason as you frame in my name or no let the Reader iudge The places be quoted in the Admonition to proue the office of Seniors and not to proue that there were Seniors in euery congregation and you being not able to salue that their vnskilfulnesse make M. Doctor speake what you please and shifte of the matter after your accustomed manner I make not that conclusion you charge me with if I do set downe my woordes conuince me
standeth in such reprehensions priuate and open and excommunication as I haue before rehearsed Io. Whitgifte What M. Doctor was able to say more was vnknowne to you If he woulde alledge as vaine reasons as you do and spende paper in vttering his owne fansies without eyther scripture or other authorities as your vsuall manner is he would at the least haue séemed to say much as you do who indéede say nothing at all I say againe that there be in the Churche that is in the externall societie of the Tract 3 cap. 6 diuisi 2. 4. The Magistrate may better 〈◊〉 offenders thaÌ„ the Semors Gual 1. cor Church both Papists Atheists drunkards c. and your deniall of it I haue shewed before to be vaine I say surther that those and such like offenders may best be reformed by the ciuill Magistrate and by corporall punishment as for your Seniors they will not set a straw by them For as M. Gualter sayth They which cannot be brought into order by the authoritie of a lawfull magistrate and by lawes will much lesse suffer themselues to be punished by the commaundement of Seniors or of an Ecclesiasticall senate whome with all their solemnitie they will laugh to scorne Chap. 2. the. 14. Diuision T. C. Pag. 143. Sect. 4. vlt. Afterwarde he asketh what Seniors may be had in most of the parishe in Englande fit for that office he asketh the same question in the. 133. page wher he also addeth Pastors asking where may be gotten such Pastors as the authors of the Admonition require when as they require no other than those which the word of God requireth Well then if this be a good reason why there should be no Elders in any Church bycause fit men are not to be gotten in all parishes it followeth by M. Doctors reason that for asmuch as we haue not fit and able Pastors for euery Churche that therfore we ought to haue no able Pastor in any Church And if he will graunt that we ought to haue able Pastors in as many places as they may be gotten how can he denie that we should haue Elders in those Churches where fitte men maye be had Io. Whitgifte The question is necessarie and cannot be so shifted of But you are still like vnto Difference betweene the necessitie of Pastors and of Seniors your selfe The reason of hauing Pastors of hauing Seniors is nothing like For the office of a Pastor is perpetuall so is not the office of your Senior Pastors be necessarie in the Church of Christ as well for the administration of the sacraments as for the preaching of the word and other Ecelesiasticall functions so be not Seniors The office of a Pastor is not only described in the scriptures but commaunded also shew where the office of your Senior is so The office of a Pastor derogateth nothing from the authoritie of the Christian Magistrate but the office of your Seniors spoyleth him of the one halfe and in a manner of the whole as shall hereafter more plainly appeare Wherefore this may well be true that although suche Pastors as are to be wished cannot be prouided for euery place yet there must be suche as may be conueniently come by But the same is not true in Seniors being neyther necessary nor where a Chistian Magistrate is profitable but the contrary And these reasons will serue to denie that of Seniors which we grauÌ„t of Pastors séeing the office of a Pastor is commaunded as necessarie and perpetuall and not the office of a Senior Chap. 2. the. 15. Diuision T. C. Pag. 144. Lin. 2. And I say further where we haue an expresse commaundement layd vpon vs to do a thing there all disputations must cease of hardnesse of impossibilitie of profyte or else of peace For first God hathe not commaunded any orders in his Churche whiche are impossible and if they seeme hard it must be remembred that the best and excellentest things are hardest and that there is nothing so hard which diligence and trauaile to bring it to passe will not ouercome whiche thing if it be proued true in worldly affayres the truth thereof will much more appeare in the matters perteyning vnto God considering that if God with his blessing do surmountè all the difficulties in worldly matters which are otherwise hard to be compassed he will in his owne matters and matters perteyning to his glory fill vp the valleys although they be neuer so low bring downe the hilies although they be neuer so high playne the ways be they neuer so rough so that he will make of a way not passable in the eyes of flesh a way tracked and easy to go in and to walke towardes that kingdome wherevnto he calleth vs. Io. Whitgifte These be but words of course to no purpose For firste you shoulde haue proued The office of 〈◊〉 no 〈◊〉 com that the office of your Seniors is commaunded which I vtterly denie Then should you haue declared that the same commaundement is perpetuall for many thinges are commaunded in the new testament which be not perpetnall as the washing of féete Iohn 13. to abstayne à sanguine suffocat Act. 15. to elect and choose wydowes to 〈◊〉 13. 〈◊〉 15. 〈◊〉 5. minister in the Churche 1. Timo. 5. and suche lyke So that you haue craftily passed ouer two principall poyntes and those whiche oughte to be the groundes of your cause Fyrste therefore I denye that thys office of Saeniors is commaunded any where in the new Testamente then I say that if it were commaunded yet is it but a tempor ill commaundement Those two pointes not being by you proued the words you vtter are but in vaine Chap. 2. the. 16. Diuision T. C. Pag. 144. Lin. 15. Besides that I answere wheresoeuer there is a Churche there are the riches of the spirite of God there is with knowledge discretion and wisedome and there are such as S. Paule calleth wise and can discerne and iudge And wee see that when men are called to a lawfull and profyt ble callyng and especially to a publike callyng God doth poure on his giftes of that person which is so called so plentyfully that he is as it were sodeynly made a newe man whych if he d ee in the wicked as Saule was there is no doubt but he will doe it in those which are with the testimonie 1. Sam. 10. of the church with experience of their former godlie behauiour chosen to such offices of weight So that there is not nor can not be any want to obey Gods commaundement and to establish the order in the Church which God hath appointed but our owne eyther negligence and slouthfulnes or fearfulnesse or ambition or some other leauen which we nourishe within our selues Io. Whitgifte This lacketh proose for sometymes the churche of God is where there is neyther good Pastor nor méete gouernour as in the tyme of Elias And though God somtymes bestow his gifts vpon y â—
especially séeing that Ambrose Hieronis auncient denieth the same to haue bin in his tyme. But if hauing one onely testimonie and that making nothing for your purpose but agaynst you rather bicause it establisheth Collegiate Churches which you would gladly throwe downe then M. Doctors knowledge in thys matter is more than you can with all your loftie spéeches immodest words obscure I haue alleaged so muche of Ambrose faythfully aud truely as proueth that which I alleage him for Neyther haue I left out one worde that maketh agaynst that my purpose for if you remember your selfe you can not but sée and vnderstande that I only alleage Ambrose to proue that there was sometime a Seigniorie but yet dissolued and abrogated before his time If that whiche followeth in Ambrose disproue this then in déede you may say that eyther I am abused or desire to abuse other But if it nothing derogate from my intent and purpose then why do you falsly charge me or why picke you a quarel agaynst me for omitting that which neyther doth me harme nor good Disproue any thing by any words of Ambrose that I haue alleaged Ambrose for if you can if you can not then temper your immoderate spéeches frame them according to the truthe If Ambrose so misliked y e abrogating of this Seigniorie why did he not labour to restore it agayne surely if it had bin a matter so necessarie he béeing so godly and zelous a Bishop would neuer haue suffered his Church to be spoyled of it but it is euident by his words that it had not bin in practise long time before Chap. 2. the. 27. Diuision T. C. Pag. 146. Sect. 1. Now that I haue shewed the place I will say no more I will leaue it to M. Doctor to think of it in his chamber by himselfe and so will conclude this question that for so much as this order is such as without which the principall offices of charitie can not be exercised and that whyche is commaunded by the scriptures approued and receyued by all the Churches in the Apostles tymes and many hundred yeres after in the most florishing churches both in time of peace and in time of persecution and that there are greater causes why it shoulde be in the time of peace than in tyme of persecution why rather vnder a christian prince than vnder a tyrant why rather nowe than in the Apostles tymes that in consideration of these things the Eldership is necessarie and suche an order as the Churche ought not be without Io. Whitgifte It forceth not greatly whether you say any more of it or no for as it nothing hindreth my purpose so winneth it no credite vnto yours And for asmuch as the Church may muche better be gouerned and the principall offices of charitie much better exercised by the ciuil Magistrate than by these Seniors and séeing that this kinde of gouernment is neyther commaunded in the scriptures nor practised in the Church as a kinde of gouernment not to be altered séeing also that it bringeth in confusion derogateth from that authoritie that God hath giuen to the ciuil Magistrate howsoeuer it hath héeretofore bin vsed yet is there no cause why it should nowe or at any tyme vnder Christian Princes be of necessitie reteyned Chap. 2. the. 28. Diuision T. C. Pag. 146. Sect. 1. And so also is answered the thirde question that for so muche as they were Churche officers a The place Heb. 13. is quoted only for the phrase for it pro ueth nothing in question and ouer the people in matters perteyning to God and such as watched ouer the soules of men a Heb. 13. that therfore although they were not Pastors to preache the word yet were they no lay men as they terme them but ecclesiasticall persons Io. Whitgifte M. Beza in an Epistle that is prefixed before the confession of the Churches in Beza Hel tia speaking of the Seigniorie sayth that there must be a great consideration had that Princes and noble men and suche as haue authoritie and preheminence in the Churche be chosen to be of the Seigniorie and will you make noble men and Princes ecclesiasticall persons and suche as must watche ouer the soules of men in déede those that be called Presbyteri in the Scriptures be Ecclesiasticall persons for they be ministers of the worde and Sacraments And M. Caluine Institut cap. 8. sect 52. Caluine sayth that all the Seniors were ministers of the worde His words be these Habebant ergo singulae Ciuitates Presbyterorū collegium qui pastores erant Doctores nam apud populū munus docendi exhortandi corrigendi quod Paulus Episcopis iniungit OMNES obibant for euery Citie had a Colledge of Seniors which were Pastors and teachers for they dyd all exercise among the people the offyce of teaching exhorting and correcting which Paule dothe inioyne to Bishops But howe can you make your Seniors ecclesiasticall séeing your Seigniorie must consist of noble men gentlemen marchauntmen husbandmen handycraftesmen as Taylors Shomakers Carpenters c. euen suche as the most part of the Parish will choose Chap. 2. the. 29. Diuision Admonition Then the sentence was tempred according (h) 1. Ti. 1. 20. to the notoriousnesse of the fact Nowe on the one 〈◊〉 eyther hatred agaynst some persons carrieth men headlong into rash and cruell iudgement or else fauour affection or money mitigateth the rigour of the same and all this commeth to passe bicause the regiment lefte of Christ (i) Mat. 18. 7. 1. Co. 12. 28 Rom. 12. 8. 1. Ti. 5. 17. Act. 15. 2. 4 6. 22. 23. to his Churche is committed into one mans hands whome alone it shall be more easie for the wicked by bribing to peruert than to ouerthrow the fayth pietie of a zelous and godly companie for suche maner of men in deede (k) Exod. 18. 21 Deut. 1. 13. should the Seniors be Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 130. Sect. vlt. Pag. 131. 132. Pag. 133. Lin. vlt. Pag. 134. Sect. 1. You say all this commeth to passe bicause the regiment left of Christ to his Church is committed vnto one mans hands and for the proofe of this you note in the margent the. 18. of Mat. the. 12. of the first to the Corin. the. 12. to the Rom. the. 5. of the first to Timoth. the. 15. of the Acts whiche places beeing examined let the discrete Reader iudge howe aptly they serue for your purpose In the. 18. of Math. Christ sayeth on this sort If thy brother trespasse agaynst thee go and tell him his fault betvveene him and thee alone c. In the which place it is by the consent of all interpreters manifest that Christe prescribeth a rule of correcting priuate and secrete sinnes and not of suche as be open and knowne to others For he would not haue pryuate and secrete sinnes blased abroad publikely reprehended before the partie offending be in this order
beyond all mē in saucinesse neither bring they any thing with thē from home but a vayne intollerable contempt of all good men neyther can they abide to be corrected by any admonition of others M. Caluine speaking of the gouernment of the Church Instit. Cap. 8. Sect. 120. sayeth thus Scimus politiam pro varietate temporū recipere imo exigere varias mutationes VVe know that the pollicie of the Church doth receiue nay rather doth require diuerse alterations Caluine Beza M. Beza likewise Lib. confess Cap. 5. Sect. 17 is of the same minde touching the gouernmēt of the Churche There was another cause of the Ecclesiasticall assemblies that they might ordeyne canons of Ecclesiasticall discipline and that I may cōprehende many things in few wordes that they might appoynt ecclesiasticall policie for the diuerse circūstances of times places and persones For it is necessarie all thinges should be donne orderly in the house of God of the vvhich order there is one generall reason to be taken out of the worde of God but not one and the same forme agreable to all circūstances And Section 32. speaking of this Seigniorie he sheweth that it was necessarie in the Churche whilest there was no Christian magistrate For so he writeth But there Idem were Elders chosen by suffrages or at least by the approbation of the whole cōpanie as it is very euident out of Ambrose which complayneth that certayne men had transferred this authoritie to themselues and ut of Cyprian likewise by whom we may also vnderstand that the Bishop did rule ouer the colledge of Elders not that he should there reygne but that by their cōsent he might rule the Policie of the church especially for so much as at that time the Churches of Affrica were not helped of the Magistrate but were rather cruelly vexed of them And Sect. 35. speaking generally of the gouernment of the Churche he sayeth Neyther must we simply looke what was done of the Apostles in the Gouernment Idem of the church seyng there are most diuerse circumstances and therfore vvithout preposterous zeale all thinges canot in all places and times be called to one and the same forme but rather the end and inuariable purpose of them must be looked vnto and that manner and forme of doing things is to be chosen which doth directly tende therevnto This is the iudgement of these learned men neyther do I know any that thinketh the contrarie except such as make poste haste to that braunch of Anabaptisme Sixtly either we must admitte another forme now of gouerning the Church than 6. The iurisdietion of the christian magistrate implieth a chāge of the firste kinde of gouernment was in the Apostles time or els we must seclude the Christian magistrate from all authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters attribute no more to him therein than was attributed to Nero in the Apostles time for in those dayes there was no Christian Prince to gouerne the church But Christian Princes haue must haue y e chief care gouernment of the Church next vnder God Ergo the same forme of gouernment cannot be now nor ought to be that was in the Apostles time Thus it is euident that the grounde whereof T. C. hath buylded his whole booke is a false ground contrarie to the Scriptures the practise of the Church the opinions The grounde of the Replie of learned men and the lawfull and iust authoritie of christian Princes and therefore the building is ruinous and cannot stande ¶ Of certayne matters concerning discipline in the Churche Tract 18. Of Excommunication and in vvhom the execution thereof doth consist Chap. 1. the. 1. Diuision Admonition Let vs come now to the third part which concerneth ecclesiasticall discipline the officers that haue to deale in this charge are chiefly three Ministers Preachers or Pastours of wheme before Seniors or Elders and Deacons Concerning Seniors not only their office but their name also is out of this English Church vtterly remoued Their office was to (q) Act. 14. 4. 1. Cor. 1 28. gouerne the churche with the reste of the Ministers to consulte to admonish to correcte and to order all things apperteyning to the state of the congregation Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 112. Sect. 3. What Scripture haue you to proue that such Seniors as you meane Deacons had any thing to do in Ecclesiasticall discipline I thinke the only discipline that we haue in the whole new testamēt except you will make admonition exhortation a part of it is Excōmunication and the execution of that is only committed to the ministers of the worde Math. 16. Iohn 20. Examples hereof wee haue Onely 〈◊〉 misters may excōmunicate ▪ 1. Cor. 5. 1. Tim. 1. ad Titum 3. T. C. Pag. 146. Sect. 2. Now I returne back againe to excommunication which M. Doctor thinketh to be y e only discipline in the church but he should vnderstande that beside y ◠part of priuate discipline which is ordinarily daily to be exercised by euery one of y e pastors elders as admonition reprehension there are thre principal partes which are exercised of thē ioyntly together wherof the first is the election or choise the abdication or putting out of ecclesiastical officers The seconde is in excommunication of the stubborne or absolution of the repentant The thirde is the decision of all such matters as doe rise in the church either touching corrupt manners or peruerse doctrine Io. Whitgifte I speake of y e publike discipline of y e church not of priuate admonition reprehension which may be called by y e name of Discipline but neither are they properly nor vsually so called except you wil also say y e publike preaching reading of y e scriptures is discipline these be things annexed to discipline but vnproperly termed by y e name Wherin discipline cōsisteth of discipline Your partition of discipline into those three parts in my poore iudgemēt is very vnskilful for discipline cōsisteth in punishing correcting of vice neither yet is the deciding of controuersies in matters doubtfull properly called discipline for discipline is exercised in punishing correcting y e persons not decioing y e causes Wherfore I thinke you haue forgottē your self in steade of y e part haue deuided y e whole that is you haue made a diuision of gouernment wheras you tooke vpon you to deuide discipline which is but a part of ecclesiasticall pollicie or gouernment Reade the generall confession of y e Christian churches in Heluetia tell me what it differeth from any thing y e I haue said Call to your remēbrance that which your selfe Pag. 1. 4. li 9 haue spoken pag. 14. where you call other censures of the church but forerunners to excommunication but this is a contention only about words therfore inough is said of it Chap. 1. the. 2. Diuision T. C. Pag. 146. Sect. 3. As touching the
proued And wee can forbidde no man from the communion although thys prohibition be not mortall but medicinable excepte he eyther willingly confesse it or be accused and conuicted eyther in some secular or ecclesiasticall courte for who dare take vnto hymselfe to be both accuser and iudge And this is my iudgement of the authoritie of Bishops in excommunicating The abuses crept into this Church in the executing of it I doe not defende as it is manyfeste in my Answere but wishe them by due order and authoritie with spéede reformed Chap. 1. the. 19. Diuision T. C. Pag. 150. Lin. 7. And it is to bee obserued here that bothe in this parte of the discipline and also in all other partes of it as I haue shewed as in harder and difficulter causes things were referred vnto the Synodes prouinciall nationall or general as the case required so if the elders of any Church shall determine any thing contrary to the word of God or inconueniently in any matter that falleth into their determination the parties which are greeued may haue recourse for remedie vnto the elders and Pastors of diuers Churches that is to say vnto Synods of Shires or dioceses or prouinces or nations of as great or of as small compasse as shall be thought conuentent by the Church according to the difficultie or waight of the matters which are in controuersie whyche meetings ought to be as often as can be conueniently not only for the decision of such difficulties which the seuerall presoyteries cannot so well iudge of but also to the end that common counsell might be taken for the best remedie of the vices or incommodities which eyther the Churches be in or in daunger to be in And as those things whiche cannot be decided by the eldership of the Churches are to be reserued vnto the knowledge of some Synode of a shire or diocese so those which for their hardnes cānot be there decided must be brought into the Synods of larger compasse as I haue shewed to haue bin done in the Apostles times and in the Churches which followed them long after Io. Whitgifte So shall there be turbarum contentionum satis much vnquietnesse for one or two busy Pastors suche as your schole can yelde good store of woulde inuent matter ynough The tumultuous and dis orderly order propounded by y e Replyer to trouble the whole Church and Pastors should then be compelled to be as much absent from their benefyces by reason of those Synods as they be now vpon other occasions Lord what a tumultuous Church would this be if this plat for me might take place In the meane while the Prince shoulde be a cyphar and onely wayte to vnderstand what kynde of Religion ceremonies and gouernment these Seigniories and their Synodes would prescribe vnto hir to mainteyne and defende for the must haue potestatem facti onely not Iuris she must take lawes she must giue none she must execute whatsoeuer it pleaseth master Pastors and their Seniors to commaund hir else wil they stirre vp the whole countrey against hir at the least she must be excommunicated me thinketh I see the very beginning of a newe Popedome Haue you shewed this cōfused order to haue bin in y e Apostles time or in y e primitiue Church T. C. ascribeth his owne deuise to the Apostles Where haue you shewed it or when will you proue it Synodes there were indéede and necessary it is that when occasion serueth they should be but your Seigniorie in euery Towne or parish vnder a Christian Prince neuer was neyther is it possible that without confusion it should be as I haue before declared But what audacitie is this to ascribe an order inuented by your selfe vpon the whiche scarse thrée of you do agrée if you were well examined and in the which your selfe or euer it were long would espie some thing to be altered vnto the Apostles Of Byshops Courts and their officers Chap. 2. the. 1. Diuision T. C. Pag. 150. Sect. 1. These things standing in this sort al those courts of Byshops and Archbyshops must needes fall which were by Antichrist erected against this lawfull iurisdiction of eldership as the court of faculties and those which are holden by Chauncellours commissaries officialls and such like the describing of the corruptions whereof would require a whole booke of whiche I will note the principall heads and summes Io. Whitgifte And not these courts only but all the courts in England would be deuoured vp of your Seigniorie yea each the Princes regall authoritie as may appeare partly by that which is said before and partly by that which shall follow hereafter For what iurisdiction will not your Seigniorie vsurp what matters would it not presume to determine what degrée of person would it not tread vnder foote but let vs heare what you say of these courts Chap. 2. the. 2. Diuision T. C. Pag. 150. Sect. 2. First for that they enter into an office which perteyneth not vnto them but to euery particular Church and especially to the eldership and gouernours of the Church and therfore although they should do nothing but that which were good lawfull and godly yet can they not approue their labours vnto men much lesse to God putting their sickle in another mans haruest For neyther by the truth of the word of God doth that apperteyne vnto them neyther by M. Doctors own iudgment if his yea were yea and his nay nay considering that he sayd before that this iurisdiction belongeth to the ministers And although it should perteyne vnto the Byshop as he is called to whome notwithstanding it doth not apperteyne yet were it not lawfull for him to translate thys office vnto another and to appoynt one to do it when he listeth no more than he can appoynt them to do his other offices of ministring as preaching the word and ministring the sacraments Io. Whitgifte Your seuerall gouernment by eldership in euery parish I vtterly reiect as neyther iustifiable by Gods worde nor any example of any churche at any tyme vnder a Christian prince in that maner and forme by you prescribed The courte of faculties medleth not with excommunications The courtes of Chauncellours c. haue many moe matters to deale withall than excommunication for that is but one parte of discipline that they vse or ought to vse only vpon an extremitie concerning the whiche discipline and the ministers therof I am of the selfe same same iudgement that I was before and my yea is yea Gualter in .1 ▪ Cor. 5. and my nay is naye And yet it I will tell you what I haue read since in M Gualters commentaries vpon the. 1. Cor. 5. If any would appoynt some kynde of separation or shuttyng out which should be executed by a lawfull magistrate and should rather be ciuill A kynde of ciuill excommunication than ecclesiasticall we will not be against them For the lawes of our cities also doo punish them with excommunication
therevnto forced by your intollerable outrageousnesse the which howsoeuer I suffer against my selfe yet may I be bold something to say vnto you thus swelling and raging agaynste other Chap. 2. the. 6. Diuision Admonition These Seniors then bycause their charge was not ouermuch did execute their office in theyr own persons without substitutes Our lord Bishops haue their vnder officers as Suffraganes Chauncellours Archdeacons Officials Commissaries and such like Ansvver to the Admonition Pag. 117. Sect. 2. 3. 4. You barely affirme without any proofe that these Seniors then Of substitutes or vicares did execute their offices in their owne persons without substitutes but your bare word is not of sufficient credite although I think you will make a greate difference betwixte Seniors and Byshops for they whome you call Seniors had no authoritie to preach or to minister the Sacraments as Byshops haue That Byshops might haue substitutes and had so it is manifest in the. 13. Canon Ancyrani Concilij whiche was about the yeare of our Lord three hundred and eight and before Nicene councel where we reade on this sort Vicarijs Episcoporum quos Graeci Chorepiscopos vocant non licet vel presbyteros Concil Ancyran vel diaconos ordinare sed nec presbyteris Ciuitatis sine Episcopi praecepto amplius aliquid ordinare nec sine authoritate literarū eius in vnaquaque parochia aliquid agere It is not lawful for Byshops substitutes whom the Greciās do cal fellow Bishops or coadiutors to order either priests or Deacons neyther is it lawful to the priests of the citie without the Byshops authoritie to commaund any thing else or without the authoritie of his letters to do any thing in any parish It is manifest hereby that Byshops then had Deputies whether you will call them Chauncellours Commissaries c. the matter is not great To contend for the name when the thing is certayne is a note of a contentious person T. C. Pag. 151. Sect. 1. Now I will take a short suruey of that whiche M. Doctor alleadgeth to proue his offices of M. of faculties Chauncellours c. First he saith in the. 117. page out of the Ancyran councell that there were vicares of Byshops where although the name be not found of Chancellours c. yet there is saith he the office What vicar S. Paules Byshop may haue and in what case I haue shewed before where I haue proued the necessary residence of euery Pastor in his flock But I will note here how M. Doctor doth go about to abuse his Reader in these vicares And firste where there were three editions of which one only maketh mention of these vicares he tooke that and left the other which is to be obserued for that this varietie of editions rose of the diuerse vnderstanding of the Greeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which may be taken eyther for him that is byshop for another and in his place or for him that is Byshop in the countrie that is in some towne which is no citie so that Chorepiscopus was opposed vnto the Byshop which was of some citie And if it be so taken then here is no proofe for the vicares of Byshops But howsoeuer it be it shall appeare that the names of Chauncellours and Chorepiscopos do not so muche differ as the offices and functions of them For it appeareth in the same councell and Canon (*) An vntruth for there is no such thing in that canon nor councell that they were like the. 70. disciples that they had also some care to prouide for the poore and that they were such as did minister the sacraments And in another councell they haue authoritie giuen them to make Antioch cap. 10. Subdeacons exorcists and readers I know this was a corruption of the ministerie but yet all men see how M. Doctor looketh as it were a farre of vpon things and therefore taketh a man for a olehill when he would make vs beleeue that these were Chancellours c. Io. Whitgifte My purpose is to proue that which the Admonition denyeth that is that Byshops had their substitutes call them by what name you will neyther do I speake eyther of the names or office of Chauncellours in that place but I reproue the Authours of the Admonition of ignorance for saying that Byshops had then no substitutes You haue shewed nothing hitherto whiche proueth that Byshops may haue no substitutes but you haue declared rather the contrary as it is by me in that place noted How I abuse the reader in these vicares and what choise I make of these thrée editions 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Byshops vicares let the Authours of the Centuries iudge who speaking of the same matter Cent. 4. cap. 7. write thus Episcoporum vicarios Canones conciliorum Ancyrani Neocaesariensis Antiocheni si quam fidem habent Chorepiscopos nominant c. The canons of the councells of Ancyra Neocaesarea and Antioch if they beare any credite do call Cent. 4. cap. 7. the vicares of Byshops Chorepiscopos whiche worde also is extant in the. 54. epist. of Basile And Sozom. lib. 2. cap. 14. calleth one Maureandas Chorepiscopum of Bicoris Byshop of the Persians M Caluine in his Instit. cap. 8. Sect. 52. is of the same iudgement Euery Colledge saith he onely for the preseruation of order Caluine concord was subiect to one Byshop which did so excel the rest in dignitie that notwithstanding he was subiect to the company of brethren But if the circuite whiche was vnder his Byshopricke was larger thā that he could sufficiently performe the office of a Byshop in all places there were priests appointed in certaine places thorough the countrey which supplyed his roome in smaller matters These they called Chorepiscopos bycause through the prouince they represented the Byshops You may therfore now vnderstand that I haue not gone about to abuse the Reader by vsing this word Uicares but rather that your selfe did not or woulde not vnderstand what was meant by this word Chorepiscopus You say it appeareth in the same councell and Canon meaning the councell of Ancyran and 13. Canon that they were like the. 70. disciples that they had also some care to protude for the poore and that they were such as did minister the sacraments and yet there is not one word of this in that Canon or in that councell whereby it appeareth that some man hathe deceiued you with his collections and that you haue not read the Canon or the councell your selfe The Canon I haue reported wholly and truly in my Answere to the Admonition Let the Reader measure your greate skill and reading by such grosse errours Indéede in the councell of Neocaesarea and. 13. Canon there are the like words to be found All that which you speake to proue that the office of these Chorepiscopi doth differ from the office of Chauncellours is néedelesse although it is no good reason to says they differ in some points Ergo they agrée
Pag. 152. Sect. 2. And whereas Master Doctor sayth that the office of the Deacons is not onely to prouide for the poore but also to preach and minister the Sacraments I haue shewed before that it both not apperteync vnto them to doe eyther the one or the other For the proofe whereof this place of the Romaines quoted by the Admonition is verie fitte and most proper For S. Paule speaketh there agaynst those which not contenting themselues with their owne vocations did breake into that which apperteyned vnto others as it the hande shoulde take vpon it the office of the eye or of some other member of the bodie and therefore Saint Paule doth as it were bounde and poynt the lymittes of euerie office in the Church and so placeth the Deacons office onely in the prouision for the poore This one thing I will adde to that matter that if the Apostles whiche had such excellent and passing gyftes did finde themselues preaching of the worde and attending to prayer not able to prouide for the poore but thought it necessarie to discharge themselues of that office to the ende they might doe the other effectually and frutefully he that shall doe both nowe must eyther do none well and profitably or else he must haue greater giftes than the Apostles had Io. Whitgifte I haue proued before manifestly that it perteyned to the office of a Deacon to Tract 14. preach and to minister the Sacrament of Baptisme and to helpe in other businesse perteyning to the Church I haue alledged both manifest examples out of the scripture to iustifie the same and the practise of the primitiue Church togither with the testimonies both of the auncient and late wryters and vndoubtedly you are dryuen to a great streight when you are inforced to vse this place of the. 12. to the Romaines to proue the contrary for though it were ment of Deacons yet doth it not proue in any respect your purpose neyther can you frame any argument of it to that ende Neither Steuen nor Philip when they being Deacons preached and the one ministred the Sacrament of Baptisme also did breake into that whiche apperteyned not vnto them being incident to their office when they be therevnto called The Apostles were occupied in planting Churches in going from place to place to spreade abrode the worde of God and therefore they coulde not so conueniently prouide for the posre but the Deacons hauing no such occasion of traveling and remouing from place to place might very well both preach the Gospell and prouide for the poore Neither can I conceiue any reason to the contrarie for I thinke they spent no greate tyme in turning ouer manie volumes to prouide for their Sermons bicause God gaue to them extraordinarie gyftes of knowledge vtterance and suche lyke necessarie for their function And if you speake of Deacons nowe I say vnto you that vnder a Christian Prince in the tyme of peace that part of their Some part of the Deacons office not so needfull in the time of christian magistrats office to prouide for the poore is not necessarie séeing that by other lawfull and politike meanes they may much better be prouided for Wherfore glorie as much as you will in your owne witte and reason yet in these heauenly diuine things your reasons shall proue but vaine and vntowarde Chap. 1. the. 5. Diuision Admonition Againe in the olde Church euery (w) Phil. 1. 1. Iohn 13. 27 Acts. 6. 5. 1. Tim. 3. 8. congregation had their Deacons Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 120. O how aptly you haue alledged the scriptures to proue that euery congregation had their Deacons In the first to the Philip. these be Whether deacons were in euery congregation the wordes Paule and Timotheus c. to all the Saincts vvhiche are at Philippi vvith the Bishops and Deacons Paule Timotheus salute the Bishops and Deacons which are at Philippi Therfore in those dayes euerie congregation had their Deacons a straunge kinde of reasoning you might well haue thus concluded Ergo at Philippi there was Deacons But surely this argument is to much out of Unapt arguments square there was Deacons at Philippi therefore euerie congregation had their Deacons In the. 13. of S. Iohn verse 27. these be the wordes And after the soppe Sathan entered into him then sayde Iesus vnto him that thou doest do quickly After Supper Satan entered into Iudas and Iesus sayde vnto him that thou doest do quickly Therefore euerie Cōgregation had their Deacons No maruel though your margent be pestred with Scriptures when you take libertie to make ex quolibet quidlibet Peraduenture you meane that Iudas was a Deacon as he was not but an Apostle bycause he caryed the bagge and that some of the Apostles thought that Christ had bid him giue some what to the poore belike whosoeuer giueth a pennie to the poore at his masters commaundement is with you a Deacon In the sixt of the Actes we learne that there were chosen seuen Deacons but there is not one worde to proue that euery congregation had their Deacons In the thirde of the first to Timothie S. Paule sheweth what qualities and conditions a Deacon ought to haue but not one worde of Deacons being in euery Congregation This is great audacitie thus manifestly to wring the Scriptures without all colour or shewe of reason T. C. Pag. 152. Sect. vlt. The second point is touching that there were Deacons in euery Church which is wel proued of the Admonition both by the place of the Philippians and of the Acts for although it be not there sayd that the deacons were in euery church yet forsomuch as the same vse of thē was in all Churches whiche was in Ierusalem and at Philippes and for that the Apostles as hath beene before touched labouring after the vniformitte of the Church ordeyned the same officers in all Churches the proofe of one is the proofe of all and the shewing that there were Deacons in one Church is the shewing in all The place which they alledge out of the first to Timothe is of all other most proper for S. Paule there describing not how the Church of Ephesus but simplie and generally how the Church must be gouerned reckeneth there the order of Deacons whereunto may be added the continuall practise of the Church long after the Apostles tymes which appeareth by the often superscriptions and subscriptions in these wordes the Bishop Elders and Deacons of suche a Church and vnto the Bishops Elders and Deacons of such a Church And by that it is so oftentymes sayde in the councels where the Churches assembled that there were so many Bishops so many Elders so many deacons Io. Whitgifte And I say againe that they be most vnapt reasons for the Deacons office was not so troublesome but that the Deacons of one Citie might serue all the Churches and congregations belonging vnto the same neyther haue you read eyther in scripture or any auncient
order can be deuised for the attendance of them in their sickenes and other infirmities c. and in the ende you conclude that if such maye be gotten wee ought also to keepe that order of wydowes in the churche still Surely if it be an order appointed of God to be perperpetuall and conteined vnder that denunciation to Timothie in the sixt chapter these ifs and ands can take no place for there are wydowes good store in this realme of Englande so that that excuse will not serue But it is a world to sée what you dare auouche be it neuer so vntrue contrary both to the practise of all reformed churches that I can heare of and iudgementes of all learned men that I haue read of this matter But if the institution of widowes be so necessay why should they not be in euerye congregation as wel as Deacons for the Apostle speaketh as directly of them in his epistle to Timothie as he doth of Deacons Againe if this be a sufficient excuse why the church hath no widowes to say that they cannot be gotten or there is none meete why will not the excuse serue the church for lacke of your Seniors also c. ¶ Of the Authoritie of the ciuill Magistrate in Ecclesiasticall mattets Tract 20. The. 1. Diuision Admonition And to these three ioyntly that is the Ministers Seniors and Deacons is the whole regiment of the Churche to be committed Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 126. Sect. vlt. This is only by you set downe without proofe therefore I will heare your reasons before I make you answere In the meane time I praye you what authoritie in these matters do you giue to the ciuill Where is the princes autho ritie magistrate me thinke I heare you whisper that the Prince hath no authoritie in ecclesiasticall matters I knowe it is a receiued opinion among some of you and therein you shake handes also with the Papistes and Anabaptistes T. C. Pag. 153. Lin. vlt. c. Unto all the rest vntill the ende of the firste parte of the Admonition I haue answered already yet there is a poynte or two whiche I must touche whereof the first is in the. 126. pag. where hee would beare men in hande that the authours of the Admonition some other of their mynde would shut out the ciuill magistrate and the prince from all authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters Whiche surmise although I see it is not so much bicause either he knoweth or suspecteth any such thing as bicause he meaneth hereby to laye a bayte to entrappe withal thinking that where (a) Note these speaches he maketh no conscience to giue he careth not what authoritie to princes wee will be loth to giue more than the worde of God will permit wherby he hopeth to drawe vs into displeasure with the prince yet for bicause he shall vnderstande we nourishe no opinons secretly which we are ashamed to declare openly for that we doubt not of the equitie of the prince in this part which knoweth that although her authoritie be the greatest in the earth yet it is not infinite but is lymited by the worde of God of whome we are persuaded that as her maiestie knoweth so she will not vnwillingly heare y e truth in this behalfe these things I say being considered I answere in the name of the authors of the Admonition and those some other which you speake of that the prince and ciuill magistrate (b) VVhat {reversed} no more but to see them executed {reversed} how differeth this from Papistrie {reversed} hath to see that the lawes of God touching his worship and touching all matters and orders of the church be executed and duly obserued and to see that euery ecclesiasticall persone do that office whervnto he is appointed to punish those which faile in their office accordingly (c) The prince spoyled of authoritie to make Ecclesiasticall orders As for y e making of y e orders and ceremonies of the churche they do where there is a constituted and ordered churche perteyne vnto the ministers of y e church and to the ecclesiasticall gouernours that as they medle not with y e making of ciuill lawes lawes for the common wealth so the ciuill magistrate hath not to ordeyne ceremonies perteining to the church But if those to whome that doth apperteyne make any orders not meete the magistrate may and ought to hynder them driue them to better for so much as the ciuil magistrate hath this charge to see that nothing be done against y e glorie of God in his dominiō Io. Whitgifte The wordes of the Admonition pag. 126. be these and fo these three ioyntly that is the The Admoni tors and T. C. ioyne with the Papistes against the Queenes supremacie in matters ecclesiasticall Ministers Seniors and Deacons is the whole regimēt of the churche to be committed Wherfore they spoyle the ciuill magistrate of all gouernment in Ecclesiasticall matters for if the whole gouernmēt of the church is to be cōmitted to Ministers Seniors Deacons what authoritie remaineth to the ciuil magistrate in the gouernment of it Agreable to this disobedient spirite erroneous Papisticall doctrine is that in the second Admonitiō Fol. 8. 9. where the authors of that booke take from the ciuill magistrate all supremacie in Ecclesiasticall matters and by euident circumstances call his authoritie vsed in those things vsurped pag. 57. they saye only meere ciuill lawes are to be made And here in this place T. C. in expresse wordes taketh from the ciuill magistrate all authoritie of makyng and appointing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 orders and ceremonies of the church and giueth the same onely to ministers and eccle asticall gouerne rs he maketh it the princes dutie to see those awes executed which these eccle asticall gouernours shall appoynte and prescribe and in his Preface he saith that eiuill persones may not handle ecclesiastical matters and Pag. 35. 145. y e the ciuil magistrate may not be the head of the church in that common wealth whereof he is the head Where by as I suppose he meaneth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 supreame gouernour and that the churche may bee established without him Pag. 54. hee denieth that the magistrate ought to prescribe what kynde of apparell ministers should 〈◊〉 In diuers places he maketh such a distinction betwixt the church of Christ a Christian cōmon wealth y t hath a Christiā magistrate as he would do betwixt the church a Heathenishe common wealth y t hath a persecuting and an vnbeleuing magistrate and separateth the common wealth of Englande as farre from the churche of Englande as he can do the common wealthe of Turcia from the churche of Christ in Turcia all this I haue noted to this ende that the good subiect and those that be carefull for the preseruation of the state of this Realme and the lawefull authoritie of hir Maiestie may the better consider and
straight a foote in it with an vniuersall hazarde of their goods and lyues that we shall not escape vnlesse we repent speedily of our coldnesse and halting in religion and vnwillingnesse I will not say to hazarde to put our lyues in daunger but not to leese some of our wealth and honour for the obteyning of a through reformation of the Church and aduauncement of the glory of the Lorde Finally he would rather haue put vs in remembrance of the sermon which our sauiour Christ Luk. 13. maketh where he sheweth that those cities are not alwayes the greatest sinners or those whome God is most angry with which haue the heauiest iudgements executed vpon them but that therby the Lord calleth vs to repentance otherwise that we shall likewise perishe This had beene more fit for our estate to haue beene sayde than to haue after a sort (*) God roote out of you this malicious spirite which deliceth in slaunders insulted vpon the afflicted and daubed vp our eyes that we should not see our miserie and our nakednesse Io. Whitgifte I haue sayde truely that we are not bounde to their examples I doe not denie No Churche may chalenge to be a patern necessarie to be followed but that examples may be followed and one ought to followe an other in that which is good and conuenient But I haue shewed before that one Churche is not bound of necessitie in all things to followe an other onely the Church of Rome is so arrogant and proude as to chalenge that prerogatiue I haue great cause to expostulate with you for this your vnchristian vnbrotherly and most vniust handling of me For where or in what words doe I pinche at their reformation Wherein doe I vse any insultation vpon the afflicted and agaynst them is this to pinche at them or to insult agaynst them to wishe that touching religion they were in that state and condition that Englande is to wish that vnto them that they grone for themselues Surely fleshe and bloud will hardely suffer me to put vp this iniurie But I am taught patience I thanke God and the Lorde forgiue you roote out that roote of bitternesse that is so déepe in your heart Admonition And heere to ende we desire al to suppose that we haue not attempted this enterprise for vayne glory gayne preferment or any other worldly respect Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 139. Sect. 1. I would to God you were as free from vayne glory ambition and malice and other sinister affections as you would seeme to be but no indifferent man reading your booke will so thinke of you for besides the opprobrious and vnseemely termes you vse towardes your superiours your Admonition smelleth altogither of popularitie and vayne glory Admonition Neyther yet iudging our selues so exactly to haue set out the state of the Churche reformed as that nothing more could be added or a more perfect forme and order drawne for that were great presumption to arrogate so muche vnto our selues seeing that as we are but weake and simple soules so God hath raysed vp men of profounde iudgement and notable learning Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 139. Sect 3. And yet in the beginning of your booke you call it a true platforme of a Churche reformed and I dare saye you thinke it to be as perfect a forme of a Church as al the best learned godlyest men in the worlde could frame for it is well knowne that men of your disposition thinke commonly as well of them selues as they doe of Men thinke too well of themselues any man else and better too But we graunt vnto you that you are so farre from setting downe a perfect state of a Churche reformed that you maye rather be called confounders and deformers than buylders and reformers Admonition But therby to declare our good wils towards the setting forth of Gods glory and the building vp of his Church accounting this as it were but an entrance into further matter hoping that our God who hath in vs begon this good worke will not onely in time hereafter make vs strong and able to goe forwarde therein but also moue other vpon whome he hath bestowed greater measure of his giftes and graces to labour more thorowly and fully in the same Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 140. God graunt that you maye become buylders and not destroyers I thinke in deede you haue but begonne I knowe there is other Suspected opinions behinde opinions among you whiche be not yet commonly knowne and truely I doubt that you will neuer ende but from tyme to tyme coyne newe deuises to trouble the Church vntill you haue brought that heuy plague of God vpō vs which the like kind of mē through their schismes and heresies haue brought vpon all those places almost where any of the Apostles preached and where the Gospell Domesticall dissention for runner of destruction ▪ was first planted and commonly before ruine and destruction commeth inwarde discorde and domesticall dissention The Lorde make vs thankfull for the puritie of his Gospell that we by his mercy enioy the Lorde roote out schismes and factions from among vs and eyther conuerte or confounde the authors of them The Lorde of his singular goodnesse continue our gracious Queene Elizabeth vnto vs and giue vs faythfull and obedient hearts to his worde and to hir Maiestie Amen T. C. Pag. 156. Sect. 1. In all the rest M. Doctor hath nothing but wordes of reproche agaynst the authors of the Admonition and calling styll as his maner is for more punishment for them which I will not bestowe the answere of Io. Whitgifte And to this ende haue I héere set my wordes downe that the Reader may vnderstande what wordes of reproche those be that you charge me with but seeing it will not please you to bestowe the answere of them I shall also be content to spare so muche labour Admonition Where as immediately after the last Parliament holden at Westminster begon in Anno. 1570. and ended Anno. 1571. the ministers of Gods holy worde and sacraments were called before hir Maiesties highe Commissioners and enforced to subscribe vnto the Articles if they would keepe their places and liuings and some for refusing to subscribe were vnbrotherly and vncharitably entreated and from their offices and places remoued May it please therfore this honorable and high Court of Parliament in consideration of the premises to take a view of suche causes as then dyd withholde and nowe dothe the foresayde Ministers from subscribing and consenting vnto those foresayde Articles by way of purgation to discharge themselues of all disobedience towards the Churche of God and their Soueraigne and by way of moste humble entreatie for the remouing away and vtter abolishing of all suche corruptions and abuses as withhelde them through which this long time brethren haue bin at vnnaturall warre and strife among them selues to the hinderance of the gospell to the ioy of the wicked and to the
when he glorieth in troubling them yet that of all is most vntollerable that besides the iniurie which he dothe them he is angry that they wyll not lay handes of them selues by casting themselues out of their liuings or euer they be cast out by him Tully maketh mention of one C. Fimbria whiche when he had caused Q. Sceuola a singular man to be wounded and sawe that he dyed not of it conuented him before the Iudges and beeing asked what he had to accuse him of answered for that he dyd not suffer the whole weapon wherewith he was striken to enter into hys body euen so M. Doctor contenteth not him selfe only to doe iniuries vnto men but accuseth them also that they will not doe it vnto them selues or that they would not willingly suffer his weapons enter so farre as he would haue them Io. Whitgifte I trust there is not one that can iustly saye I haue without great cause molested him if there be any suche or whome I haue by any meanes iniuried I refuse not to answere and to satisfie him yea it is my desire that it maye come to the triall so shall many slaunderous spéeches togither with the authors of them be founde as they are C. Fimbria was a very proude sedicious Romane and one that disquieted the C. Fimbria Q. Sceuola state of the common wealth and greatly enuied his superiours Q. Sceuola was a wyse and a prudent Senatour one that liued in authoritie and obserued lawes him selfe and caused the same to be obserued by other Sceuola surely you can not be for you are neyther of that credite for wisdome nor of that authoritie in the cōmon wealth nor so diligent an obseruer of good orders and lawes your conditions come nearer to Fimbria I will not conclude you shall doe it your selfe If I haue done you any iniurie prosecute it to the vttermoste and spare not I neuer entreated you to holde your peace The greatest iniurie that I acknowledge my selfe guiltie of is vnto the Colledge that I so long suffered you contrarie to your expresse othe to vsurpe a place therein to the great hinderaunce and disquieting thereof T. C. Pag. 156. Sect. 2. What conscience is there that bindeth a man to depart from his liuing in that place where he liketh not of all the orders which are there vsed Is it not inough to abstayne from them if there be any euill in them or to declare the vnlawfulnesse of thē if his calling do suffer him when as the reformation is not in his power And if eyther of this absteyning or declaration of thys vnlawfulnesse of them troubles be moued there is no more cause why they should giue place than the other which like of those disorders yea there is lesse cause for that they are not the causes of trouble but the other and for that by their departure out of their places roome is made for those which will lyke of those disorders whiche the other misliked whiche is to the hurte of that companie or congregation in suche places Io. Whitgifte If he be sworne to kéepe those orders kéeping his liuing if as honest men as he is will lyke of them If his equals or rather betters might supply his place I thinke he ought rather to satisfie his othe or to refuse his liuing if he wyll auoyde periurie yea though there were no such méete persons to succéede him But if the case be this that a man shall directly sweare eyther to doe such a thing by such a tyme or to leaue his place if by that time he neyther do the thing by othe required nor leaue his place but still vsurpe the same at the least the space of fiue yeres I thinke he ought to be displaced for periurie whiche is a greater matter than eyther cappe or surplesse I doe but nowe put a case that men may vnderstande euery man that is displaced not to be displaced without great and vrgent occasion I woulde not enter into thys vayne if I were not vrged Therefore to answere in one worde for all I haue put no man out of his liuing but there is greater cause why he should be ashamed to cōplayne of iniurie than I to doe according to my othe and duetie T. C. Pag. 156. tovvards the ende And as for M. Doctors easinesse to depart from his liuing rather than he woulde cause any trouble he giueth men great cause to doubt of whiche hauing diuers great liuings and amongest them a benefice is very loth to goe from troubling of others to doe his duetie at any of them It is true that the Church of England may haue an order whervnto it may iustly require the subscription of the ministers in Englande And so is it likewyse vntrue that we desire that euery one shoulde haue his owne fansie and lyue as him listeth for we also desire an vniforme order but suche and in suche sorte as we haue before declared As for the olde accusation of Anabaptisme and confusion it is answered before therfore according to my promise I will leaue your words and if you haue any matter I will speake to that Io. Whitgifte This was obiected and answered before God knoweth my heart and I am ready to giue myne accompte when I am therevnto by order called orders you wyll admitte but suche as pleaseth you that is you will be in order if you maye doe what you liste ¶ Of subscribing to the Communion Booke Tract 21. Certayne generall faults wherewith the booke is charged by the Admonitors Chap. 1. the first Diuision The first article Fyrst that the booke commonly called the booke of common prayers for the Churche of Englande Of subscribing to the communion booke authorised by Parliament and all and euery contents therein be suche as are not repugnant to the worde of God Admonition Albeit right Honorable and dearely beloued we haue at all times borne with that whiche we could not amende in this booke and haue vsed the same in our ministerie so farre foorth as we might reuerencing those times and those persons in whiche and by whome it was first authorised beeing studious of peace and of the buylding vp of Christes church yet nowe beeing compelled by subscription to allowe the same and to confesse it not to be against the worde of God in any poynt but tollerable we must needes say as followeth that this booke is an vnperfect booke culled and picked out of the Popishe dunghill the Masse booke full of all abhominations for some and many of the contents therein be suche as are agaynst the worde of God as by his grace shall be proued vnto you And by the waye we can not but muche maruell at the crafcie wilinesse of those men whose parts it had beene first to haue proued eache and euery content therein to be agreable to the worde of God seeing that they forcemen by subscription to consent vnto it or else sende them packing from their callings Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag.
it be written redde or preached by man for the spirite of God is the Author of it man is but the instrument The rest of your proofes taken frō the vse of the Church as you say be all ab authoritate negatiuè and most of them ab authoritate hominum whiche kinde of argument your self haue before vtterly condēned I haue oftentimes could you that an argument à non facto ad non ius it is M. Zuinglius and other mens iudgement as well as mine is good neyther in diuine nor yet in humane thinges So far as I can learne Ionathan the Calday Paraphrast florished not in Christes Ionathan the Cald y paraphrast before christes time time as you say but. 42. yeares before Christ was borne and I thinke there is none of these Paraphrastes so faithfull in interpreting but that they misse in some places you can not but acknowledge that one good Sermon or Homilie of some learned mans well plainely redde to the people may edifie them more than the reading of these Paraphrastes And yet I suppose you knowe that the Iewes haue those Paraphrastes as yet redde in their Churches wherefore hitherto if you haue spoken any thing it is against your selfe But you say that this practise continued still in the Churches of god c. and you proue it by Iustine Martyr bycause he mentioneth nothing read in the churche but Monuments of the Prophetes and Ipostles Concerning your proofe I haue declared already of what force it is being drawne ab authoritate humana negatiuè Now that this practise continued not still in the Church you shall easily perceyue if you peruse that which Eusebius writeth The epistle of Ciement reade in the churche out of an Epistle of Dionysius Corinthius to Soter Byshop of Rome where he writeth after this sorte And in this epistle there is mention of an Epistle of Clemēt written to the Corinthians declaring that according to the olde custome it was read in the Euseb. lib. 4 ▪ Cap. 2 Church For thus he sayth we haue this day celebrated the holy day of the Lorde wherein we read your Epistle whiche we will alwayes read for admonition sake in like sorte as Dionysius liued about the yeare 147. the former epistle written to vs from Clement The Authors of the Centuries writing of this Dionysius thinke it not vnlike that his Epistles were also read in the Churche bicause Eusebius calleth them Catholicas Catholike Their woordes be these Non videtur prae ereundum quòd Eusebius basce epistolas Catholicas vocet fortè quia in Ecc esijs Cent. 2. cap. 10. piorum solitae sunt legi sicut Clementis This thing woulde not be omitted that Eusebius calleth these epistles Catholike peraduenture bicause they were wonte to be read in the Churches of the faythfull as the Epistle of Clement was And this may testifie of the practise of the Churche in Iustinus Martyrs time better than your negatiue Concil vas La. 4. argument And of the practise since the. 4. Can. Concil Vasens will giue sufficient testimonie where it is decreed that if the ministers be let by infirmitie or sickenesse the Homilies Homilies of fathers read in the church of the fathers should be read of the Deacons Chap. 2. the. 6. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 172. Sect. 3. But of readyng Homilyes in the Churche I haue some thing Bucers opinion of ho lies in the churche spoken before nowe it shall be sufficient onely to set downe Master Bucers iudgement of this matter in his notes vpon the Communion booke whiche is this It is better that vvhere there lackes to expounde the Scriptures vnto the people there shoulde be Godly and learned Homilyes redde vnto them rather than they shoulde haue no exhortation at all in the administration of the Supper And a litle after There be too fevve Homilies and to fevve poyntes of Religion taught in them vvhen therefore the Lorde shall blesse this kingdome vvith some excellent Preachers lette them be commaunded to make mo Homilyes of the principall poynts of Religion vvhich may be redde to the people by those Pastors that can not make better themselues T. C. Pag. 158. Tovvardes the ende And as for Master Bucers authoritie I haue shewed before how it ought to be weyghed and here also it is suspitious for that it is sayde that his aduise was that when the Lord should blesse the realme with mo learned preachers that then order should be taken to make more homilies which should be redde in y e church vnto the people As if M. Bucer did not know that there were then learned preachers enough in the realme which were able to make Homilies so many as the volume of thē might easily haue exceeded the volume of the Bible if the multitude of Homilies would haue done so much good And if the authoritie of Master Bucer beare so great a swaye with Master Doctor that vpon his credite onely without eyther Scripture or reason or examples of the Churches primitiue or those which are nowe he dare thrust into the churche Homilies then the authorities of the most auncient and best councels ought to haue bene considered which haue giuen charge that nothing should be redde in the church but onely the Canonicall Scriptures Io. Whitgifte They are M. Bucers woordes in déede neyther is there any cause why you should suspect them so to be And it is not his iudgemēt only but other learned mens Ridleys iudgement of homilies in the churche also and namely that famous man D. Ridlies Bishop of London in the treatise before rehearsed Wherein thus he speaketh of the Churche of Englande that was in King Edwards time It had also holy and wholesome Homilies in commendation of the M. Foxe to 2. Pag. 1940. principall vertues which are commended in Scripture and likewise other Homilies agaynst the most pernicious and capitall vices that vseth alas to reygne in this Church of England And truly these authorities if I had no other reason preuaile more with me than all that you or any of your parte had sayd or is able to say to the contrarie Chap. 2. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Pag. 159. Lin. 4. For it was decreed in the councell of Laodicea that nothing should be redde in the churche but the Canonicall bookes of the olde and newe Testament and reckeneth vp what they be Afterwarde 59. Can. conc Laodi rom 1. concil as corruptions grewe in the church ▪ it was permitted that homilies might be redde by the Deacon when the minister was sicke and could not preach and it was also in an other Councell of Carthage permitted that the martyres lyues might be redde in the church but besides the euill successe that those decrecs had vnder preteuce whereof the Popish Legende and Gregories Concil vasense 1. to 4. tom cōcil 6. c concil Colon. parte 2. homilies c. creptin that vse and custome was controlled
Admonition Pag. 183. Sect. 2. The name of Priest neede not to be so odious vnto you as you The name of priste would seeme to make it I suppose it cōmeth of this worde Presbyter not of Sacerdos and then the matter is not great T. C. Pag. 159. Sect. 2. Althoughe it will bee harde for you to proue that this woorde Prieste commeth of the Greeke woorde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet that is not the matter but the case standeth in thys that for so muche as the common and vsuall speach of England is to note by the word Priest not a minister of the Gospell but a sacrificer whiche the minister of the Gospell is not therefore we ought not to call the ministers of the Gospell priestes and that this is the english speach it appereth by all y e english translations which translate always 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which were sacrificers priestes and do not of the other side for any that euer I read translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a priest Seing therfore a priest with vs in our tong doth signifie both by y e Papists iudgemēt in respect of their abhommable Masse and also by the iudgement of the protestant in respecte of the beastes whyche were offered in the law a sacrificing office which the minister of the gospell neyther doth nor can execute it is manyfest that it can not be without great offence so vsed Io. Whitgifte I am not greatly delightedwith the name nor so desyrous to maynteyne it but yet a truth is to be defended I reade in the olde fathers that these two names Sacerdos and presbyter be confounded I see also that the learned and the best of oure English writers such I meane as write in these oure dayes translate this worde presbyter so and the verie worde it selfe as it is vsed in our english tongue soundeth the worde presbyter As heretofore vse hath made it to be taken for a sacrificer so wil vse nowe alter that signification and make it to be taken for a minister of the Gospell But it is méere vanitie to contende for the name when wée agrée of the thing the name may be vsed and not vsed without any great offence Chap. 3. the. 2. Diuision Answere to the Admonition Pag. 183. Sect. 3. Pag. 184. Sect. 1. 2. The priest or priestes that translated this booke be not so skornfully to be taunted I thinke some of them haue ended their lyues in the fyre and all of them singular both in life religion learning speake not so contemptuously of so worthy men vtter not your hautie stomacks with so spitefull words towards your superiours betters least you proue your selues to be in the number of those of whom S. Paul speaketh 2. Tim. 3. vers 2. 3. 4. 5. and Iudas in his epistle vers 8. It is true that the priesthod of the old law is abolished but the place of scripture noted in your margent proueth it not For Hebrues 5. Paule doth shew why the high priest was ordeyned and what were his offices but he speaketh nothing of the abolishing of the priesthood I muse what you mean thus vnnecessarily to paint your margent and that with so little iudgement and lesse discretion The. 9. to the Hebrues is something to the purpose but needlesse Touching Popish priestes as you call them whether they ought to haue anye place in oure churche or no I haue spoken before where I haue also aunswered youre marginall notes concerning that matter You far ouershot your self in myne opinion when you set it down that you neuer read in the newe testament thys worde priest touching office to bee vsed in good parte What saye you to the fourth to the Hebrues verse 14. Seeing then that vve haue a greate highe Priest vvhyche is entred into heauen Iesus Chryst. c. And verse 6. For vvee haue not a highe Priest vvhyche can not be touched vvith the feelyng of our infirmities but. c. And chapter 5. verse 6. Thou arte a Prieste for euer c. And Apocalyps 5. 1. Pet. 2 ▪ But what shoulde I trouble you with a tedious the whole newe Testament where this worde Priest is taken in euill parte touching office Truly you are farre deceyued or else my Priest conce ning office neuer in euil part vnderstanding fayleth me I condemne that office and institution of sacrificing for the quick and the dead with you and I knowe it is condemned in the Scriptures manifestly and namely in the. 9. and. 10. to the Hebrues Io. Whitgifte Nothyng answered Matters concerning the solemnization of Mariage Chap. 4. The first Diuision Admonition The ninth As for matrimonie y t also hath corruptions too many it was wont to be counted a sacrament and therfore they vse yet a sacramentall signe to whiche they attribute the vertue of wedlock I meane the wedding ring which they fowlly abuse and dalli withal in takyng it vp laying it down In putting it on ▪ they abuse the name of the Trinitie they make y e newe maried man according to the Popish forme to make an idoll of his wyfe saying with this ryng I thee Abuses accidentall wed with my bodie I thee worship c. And bicause in poperie no holie action may be done without a Masse they enioyn the maried persons to receiue the communion as they do their Bishops and priests when they ar made c. Other pettie things out of the booke we speak not of as that women contrarie (m) 1. Cor. II. 5 to the rule of the Apostle come are suffered to come bareheaded with bagpipes and fidlers before them to disturbe the congregation and that they must come in at the great dore of the churche else all is marred Answere to the Admonition Pag. 194. Saect 1. The ring in matrimonie The fyrst thing you mislyke in matrimonie is the ryng whiche you call a sacramentall signe and vntruely saye that we attribute the vertue of wedlocke thervnto I knowe it is not materiall whether the ring be vsed or no for it is not of the substance of matrimonie neither yet a sacramentall signe no more than sitting at Communion is but only a Ceremonie of the which M. Bucer writing his iudgemēt vpon the first Bucers opinion of 〈◊〉 ring in mariage cōmunion booke set out in the tyme of king Edwarde sayth on this sort Subijcitur alius ritus vt ānulum c. There is an other rite and ceremonie vsed that the bridegrome should lay vpon the book the ring or any other signe or token of wedlock be it gold or siluer which he wil giue to his wife from thēce the minister takīg it doth deliuer it to the bridegrom he deliuereth the same to the bride with a prescript forme of words cōteined in the booke this ceremonie is verie profitable if the people be made to vnderstand what is therby signified as that the ring other things first layd vpon the book
made with scraping the sée vpon the ground as it is vsed by them in derision so is it of it selfe ridiculeus and not worthie to be answered besides it is vntrue for it hindereth no more the worde béeing read than hawking and spitting bindereth the same being preached But Lorde how sparing are you of time that will not spare so much as may serue a man to bow his knée in Well it is but a pretence to helpe out with a merie argument for I dare say neyther they nor you are so vndiscrete as to vse it in good sadnesse Their second reason hash some more grauitie in it though not much more weight and your addition that it may breede a daungerous opinion of the inequalitie eyther of the Sanne of God with the other persons or of the Gospell with other Scriptures is but supposed and a man may suppose the Moone to be made of gréene chéese That gesture at the name of Iesus hath hitherto continued in the Church many hundred yeares and yet neuer any was heard tell of that fell into eyther of these opinions by the meanes thereof One reason that moued Christians in the beginning the rather to bow at the Why Christians bowed at the name of Iesus name of Iesus than at any other name of God was bicause this name was most hated and most contemned of the wicked Iewes and other persecutors of such as professed the name of Iesus for the other names of God they had in reuerence but this they could not abide wherefore the Christians to signifie their fayth in Iesus and theyr obedience vnto him and to confute by open gesture the wicked opinion of the Iewes and other infidels vsed to doe bodily reuerence at all tymes when they heard the name of Iesus but especially when the Gospell was read which conteyned that glad tydings of saluation which is procured vnto man by Christ Iesus wherevpon also he is called Iesus that is a Sauior Neyther can it be agaynst christianitie to shewe bodily reuerence when he is named by whom not onely all the spirituall enimies of mankinde are subdued but also the faythfull be made partakers of the kingdome of heauen Wherefore as I binde no man of necessitie to this reuerence at the name of Iesus so do I not iudge any man that hauing knowledge vseth the same for I will not holster and defende superstitious ignorance It must néedes be malicious dealing to charge the common order and booke of publike prayer with particular faults of priuate men and places If you knowe where these abuses be and will complaine of them either to the Archbishop or Bishop I dare say they will reforme them There is better reason why one Pastor may haue two benefices than one Curate serue in two cures for ministring of the Sacraments and reading publike prayers dayly doth require more bodily attendance than the preaching of the worde A man may better in one day preach at two Churches than he can at them both minister the Sacraments and celebrate publike prayers That Pastor that hath two benefices and two good Curates at them both may with much more facilitie do his dutie both towardes his Churches particularly and the whole Church generally Of Cathedrall Churches c. Tract 22. Admonition As for Organs and curi ns singing though they be proper to popish dennes I meane to Cathedrall Churches yet some others also must haue them The Queenes Chappell and these Churches must be paterns and presidents to the people of all superstitions Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 206. Sect. 1. Here it pleaseth you to call Cathedrall Churches Popish dennes As hap is your wordes are no slaunder But this bragge I will make of Cathedrall Churches and such as be nowe in them I will offer vnto you a dozen Cathedrall Churches in England which I my selfe do know the worst whereof in learning shall encounter with al Papistes Puritanes Anabaptists and what other sectes soeuer in Englande for the defense of religion now professed eyther by worde or wryting Without arrogancie be it spoken I thinke there was neuer time wherein these Churches were better furnished with wise learned and godly men than they be at this day I speake not this boastingly but to Gods glorie the honour of the Prince the comfort of the godly and the shame of slaunderous Papistes and disdainfull Schismatikes Your slaunderous speech of the Queenes Maiesties Chappell which you also say to be a patterne and president to the people of all superstitions is rather seuerely to be punished than with words to be confuted T. C. Page 163. tovvardes the ende Pag 164. Sect. 1. As for the speach of the cathedrall Churches either it is nothing or else it is false For if he say that there is eyther in all those cathedrall Churches one or in euerie of those 12. churches one which is able to confute Papists c. What great thing sayth he which sayth no more of all these Churches than is to be founde in one poore house of the vniuersitie whose rentes are scarce 300. pounde by yeare Yea what hath he sayde of them which was not to be founde in them euen in Queene Maries tyme when there was yet some one almost in euery Church which for feare dissembling was able notwithstanding to confute the Papists Anabaptists Puritanes And if he meane that in those twelue houses the worst of the Prebendaries are able to defende the truth agaynst all Papists c. all men do knowe the vntruth of it so that although this sentence be very doubtfully put forth yet howe so euer it be taken it is as M. Doctor hath rightly termed it a meere bragge And yet I doubt not and a well assured that there be diuerse godly learned men which haue liuings in those places but for all that they ceasse not therefore to be dennes of loyterers and idle persons whilst there are nourished there some which serue for no profitable vse in the Church theyr offices being such as bring no commoditie but rather hurt of which number certame are which the Admonition speaketh of in the. 224. page some other which hauing charges in other places vnder the colour of their Prebendes there absent themselues from them and that which they spoyle and rauen in other places there they spend and make good cheere with and therfore not without good cause called dennes Finally there being nothing there which might not be much better applyed and to the greater commoditie of the Church whilst they might be turned into Colledges where yong men might be brought vp in good learning and made fit for the serutce of the Church and common wealth the vniuersities being not able to receyue that number of schollers wherwith there neede may be supplyed And where M. D. sayth that that which is spoken of the Queenes maiesties chappell is worthie rather to be punished than confuted if so be that these be abuses the example of them in hir matesties
T. C. Pag. 170. Sect. 2. As for Elias killing the false Prophetes and our Sauiour Christs whippyng out of the temple it is straunge that M. Doctor will alledge them as thinges to be followed when he may as well teach that we may call for fire from heauen as Elias did and beyng demaunded answere nothyng as our Sauiour did as to followe these actions whiche are moste singular and extraordinarie And if these one or two examples be enough to breake the order that God hath sette by this a man may proue that the mynisters may be fishers and tente makers bycause Peter and Paule beyng ministers did fishe and make tents And truely these are not so extraordinary and from the generall rule as the other be And it was permitted in a Councell that rather than a minister should haue two benefices he might labour with his handes to supply his wante Tom. 〈◊〉 Nic 〈◊〉 1 withall Io. Whitgifte Yet by these examples especially by the examples of Christ it may appeare that Ecclesiasticall persons haue vsed corporall punishments which you call ciuill I knowe examples make no rule and therfore al your argumentes out of the scriptures alleadged before to proue that the election of ministers ought to be popular receyue the same answere that you giue to me in this place and yet examples if they be not agaynst any commaundement or good order established declare what hath bene and what vppon the lyke occasions may be done but not what of necessitie ought to be doone If you can proue any order of God sette downe that an Ecclesiasticall person may by no meanes exercise any ciuill offices I yelde vnto you if you can not do it then do I alledge no examples tending to the breakyng of any order that God hath set I knowe not why the ministers of the Gospell may not do as Peter Paule did vpon the lyke occasion And therfore your alledging of y e corrupt Councel of Nice which not withstanding you haue not 〈◊〉 alleaged is not necess ie I haue spoken of that Canon before and therfore will not trouble the Reader with it nowe being from this purpose Chap. 3. the. 11. Diuision T. C. Pag. 170. Sect. 2. 3. When Sainct Paule willed Tim. that he shoulde not receyue an accusation agaynst an elder vnder two or three witnesses he did committe nothing lesse than any ciuill office vnto him And M. Doctor himselfe hathe alleadged it before as a thing incident to the office of a Byshop and therefore he doth forget himselfe maruellously now that maketh this a ciuill office And doth M. Doctor thinke that S. Paule made magistrates Or is he of that iudgemente that the Church in the time of persecution may make ciuill officers But it is true that he that is once ouer the shoes sticketh not to runne ouer his bootes Io. Whitgifte I alleadged it before to proue the superioritie of Bishops ouer other ministers The iur tion of Timothie in some respect ciuill Now I do alledge it to proue that the same byshops may exercise that iurisdiction which you call ciuill for in that the iudgement of such causes were committed vnto him it argueth his superioritie in that there is named accusers and witnesses it declareth a kind of eiuil iurisdiction to the which those words do perteine So that Timothie being an ecclesiastical person had prescribed vnto him that kind of proceeding to iudgement that may be called ciuill Chap. 3. the. 12. Diuision Ansvver to the Admonition Page 218. Sect. 1. It pleaseth you to say that it is against Gods worde for Byshops to haue prisons but your margent is very barren of proofes for you haue not quoted one place of scripture to proue it onely you say that Popish Eugenius did first bring them in whiche is a very slender argument to proue them to be against the word of God Did not Peter punish Ananias and Saphira very streightly for their dissimulation Surely farre more greeuously than if he had put them in prison and yet their offence was not against any ordinarie law made in the Churche or common weale But where reade you that Eugenius did first inuent them T. C. Pag. 170. Sect. vlt. And last of all to proue that byshops may haue prisons he citeth Peter which punished Ananias and Saphira with death M. Doctor muste vnderstande that thys was 〈◊〉 power and was done by vertue of that function whyche Sayncte Paule calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Cor. 12. whiche is one of those functions that the Lorde placeth in hys Churche for a tyme. But is thys a good argumente Bycause Saincte Peter punished with the worde therfore the minister may punishe with the sword And bicause Sainct Peter didde so once therfore the Bishop may doe so alwaye And bycause Sainct Peter did that whiche appertayneth to no ciuill magistrate ▪ and whyche no ciuill magistrate by any meanes maye or can doe therfore the minister maye doe that whyche apperteyneth vnto the Ciuill magistrate For if there hadde bin a ciuill magistrate the same coulde not haue punished this faulte of dissimulation whiche was not knowne nor declared it selfe by anye outewarde action So that if this example proue any thing it proueth that the minister may doe that no man may doe but the Lorde onely whyche is to punishe faultes that are hidde and vnknowne If this bee ignorance it is very grosse and if it be against knowledge it is more daungerous I haue determined with my selfe to leaue vnto M. Doctor his outcryes and declamations and if I shoulde haue vsed them as often as he giueth occasion there woulde be no ende of writing The Lorde giue M. Doctor eyther better knowledge or better conscience Io. Whitgifte I vse this example of Peter to shewe that is not agaynst Gods worde for the ministers Ministers may vse temporall punishment of the Gospell to punishe any by imprisonmente For Peter béeing a minister of the Gospell dyd punyshe with death whiche is muche more than to imprison and as Peter did this lawfully by an extraordinarie power so maye the ministers of the woorde punishe by imprisonmente whiche is a farre lesse kynde of punishment beyng lawfully therevnto authorised by the ciuill Magistrate accordyng to the orders of the common wealth and state of the Churche Therfore my reason is this Peter punished with temporall punishement being a minister of the worde and he dyd nothing repugnant to his vocation therfore it is not repugnant to the office of a minister of the worde to punishe with temporall punishment Agayne Peter punished with death therfore the minister maye punishe with imprisonment I speake de facto of the deede done not de modo of the maner of doing is And I doubte not but that séeing it was lawfull for Peter to kill by an especiall and extraordinarie power so it may be lawfull for the minister of the word to imprison by an vsuall and ordinarie power And so are all your
where greate complaynte is made of this greeuous persecution when as you and your disciples cease not as I sayde moste falsely and slaunderously to reporte of suche as executing good lawes discharge theyr conscience to God and their duetie towardes the Prince We therefore exhorte you if there be any feare of God before your eyes any reuerence towards the Prince any desire of promoting the Gospell any louing affection towardes the Church of Christe to submit your selues according to your dueties to godly orders to leaue off contentiousnesse to ioyne with vs in preaching of the word of God and beating downe the kingdome of Antichriste that thys your diuision procure not Gods wrath to be poured vpon vs. T. C. Pag. 172. Sect. 2. Here M. Doctor contrary to the pretestation of the authours of the Admonition whiche declare that for the abuses and corruptions they dare not simply subscribe saithe that therefore they will not subscribe bycause they are required by lawfull authoritie which how both presumptuous and vncharitable a iudgement it is let all men iudge especially vpon this matter whiche hath bin declared And where M. Doctor would vpon y ◠marginal note pr y t we haue good discipline bycause we haue good doctrine ther vpon doth wonderfully triumph he playeth as he of whome it is said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is hauing gotten nothing holdeth it fast For can M. Doctor be so ignorant that this manner of speach doctrine and discipline cannot be s uered is vsed of that that they ought not to be seuered ▪ when as we say following S. Paule that we can do nothing against the truth do we not meane that we ought to do nothing or can do nothing lawfully against it And do not all men know when we say that a man cannot be separated from his wife but for the cause of A ultery that we meane he ought not or he cannot lawfully Therefore this is as all men may see a meere cauill and triumph ouer his owne shadow There is no bragge of suffering made by the authours of the Admonition The modestie wherwith he hath defended this cause cannot be hidden That he would haue other men punished for well doing when he is not content that the open wrongs which he doth should be once spoken of I haue shewed how vnreasonable it is Io. Whitgifte I speake of their denying to subscribe to the Articles concerning the substance of doctrine which they confesse to be sound vsing a godly interpretation in a poynt or two c. what other abuses so euer there be in the booke of common prayer or in the Church yet that is no sufficient cause why they shoulde refuse to subscribe to the truth of doctrine professed in this Church and conteyned in those Articles Wherefore séeing they confesse them to be sound and yet denie to subscribe who can otherwise iudge of them than I haue signifyed in my Answer I acknowledge my selfe to be ignorante that in this and suche like phrases thys Can is not taken for ought if it be spoken simply word Can is taken for ought When Saint Paule saithe that we can do nothing againste the truth he meaneth simply as he speaketh and doth not there vse Can for ought For indeede we can do nothing against the truth though we do the worst we can It is no vsuall phrase but an vnproper kind of speach to say that a man cannot do a thing when he should say that he ought not to do it except he adde some thing as he cannot do it lawfully or well or orderly and such like Wherefore my dulnesse is such that I cannot vnderstande suche darke speaches vntill they be interpreted and yet whether they woulde so interprete themselues or no it maye be doubted If they bragge not of persecution wherevnto tende these wordes of theirs this is that we striue for about which we haue suffered not as euill doers c. and quote in the margent to proue it 1. Pet. 3. as though they were persecuted by infidels How immodest soeuer I am in defending this cause yet if it be compared eyther to Schismatiks deserue to be sharply reproued their passing bitternesse or to your spitefull speaches and vnséemely tauntes and iestes I shall appeare tootoo simple and although I must néedes say thus much that disturbers of the common peace of the Churche and Schismatikes deserue to be with sharpe wordes reproued yet haue not I vsed that sharpenesse and bitternesse whyche diuerse learned menne bothe olde and newe haue vsed in the lyke case If I haue done any man wrong let him come foorth and proue it and I will render vnto him quadruple T. C. Pag. 172. Sect. 3. Finally as you exhort vs to submitte ourselues to good order whiche haue bin alwayes and yet are ready to do to leaue to be contentious which neuer yet began to ioyne with you in preaching the word of God which haue stopped our mouthes and will not suffer vs to preache so we exhort you in Gods behalfe and as you will once answer it before the iust iudge that you will not willingly shut your eyes against the truth that if the Lord vouchsafe to open it vnto you you kicke not against it Wherefore we pray you to take heede that neither the desire of keeping your wealth and honoure which you are in nor the hope which you may haue of any further promotion nor yet the care of keeping your estimation by mainteining that whiche you haue once set downe nor the sleighey suggestion of craftie and wyly Papists do driue you to stumble against this truth of God which toucheth the gouernment of his Church and the purging of those corruptions whiche are amongst vs knowing that you cannot stumble vpon the word of God but foorthwith you runne yourselfe against Christ which is the rocke And you know that he will not giue back but breaketh all to fitters whatsoeuer that rusheth against him Io. Whitgifte You do not submit your selues to the order of the Church which is a good and decent order you haue filled the Churche with maruellous contentions and haue strangely deuided euen such as professe the Gospell your mouthes are not stopped but through your owne procuring I do not withstand that which you vntruly call the truth for any such cause as you surmise God who seeth my hart knoweth but bycause I sée these your deuises to be set downe by you without any sufficient warrant in the word of God agaynste the practise and order of the primitiue Churche tending also to daungerous errours and meere confusion both of the Church and of the common wealth T. C. Page 172. Sect. vlt. And if the matter herein alleadged do not satisfye you then I desire euen before the same GOD that you confute it not by passing ouer thynges whyche you can not answer or by stauing both the words and the meaning of the booke and taking your owne fansie to confuce or by wrougling
158. Lin. 15. c. that can not sée Beside this it is a Popish and an vngodly opinion contrarie to the worthinesse and profitablenesse of the Scriptures contrarie to the wordes of Christ Iobn 5. Iohn 5. Search the Scripture c. contrarie to the wordes of the Apostle 2. Tim. 3. Omnis 2. Tim. 3. Tract 13. scriptura diuinitùs inspirata c. And contrarie to all that that I haue alleaged before for the reading of the Scriptures to the which for the further confutation of this vngodly error I do referre the Reader Ansvvere to the Detractions c. Fol. 3. Iu the same leafe and fift reason to these wordes Besides that we neuer reade in the new Testament that this worde Priest as touching office is vsed in the Correction with exceptiō good part In the seconde edition is added except it speake of the Leuiticall Priesthoode or of the Priesthood of Christ. Here as I thinke they haue forgotten that which Peter speaketh to all Christians in his 1. Epist. cap. 2. ver 5. And ye as lyuely stones be made a spirituall house and holy Priesthod to offer vp spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by Iesus Christ. ver 9. But ye are a chosen generation a royal priesthood c. And Apo. 1. And make vs Kings and Priests vnto God c. I willed them before to shew me one place in the whole newe Testament where this word Priest as touching the office is takē in euill part I may be deceyued but I desire to learne T. C. Pag. 174. Sect. 1. And vpon the. 3. leafe where he giueth instance in the Apocalips of the word Priest to be taken otherwise than for the Leuitical priesthood and priesthood of our sauiour Christ. M. D. cannot be ignorant that the Admonition speaketh of those which be priests in deed properly and not by those which are priests by a inctaphore and borowed speach And wheras he desireth to learne where the worde priest is taken in euill part in all the new testament Although all men see how he asketh this question of no mind to learne yet if he will learne as he sayth he shall find that in (*) In what Chapter ▪ the Acts of the Apostles it is taken diuers times in euill part For seing that the office function of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is of priests was after our sauiour christs ascētion naught vngodly the name wherby they were called which did exercise that vngodly function cannot be otherwise takē than in the euil part Io. Whitgifte And what say you to the places of S. Peter is not this worde priest taken in good part there also I desired to haue one place in all the new Testamēt named vnto me where this word priest is taken in euil part you send me ouer to the Acts of the Apostles naming neither text nor chapter yet that satisfieth not my request for the Authors of the Admonition in their corrections except the Leuitical priesthood and the priesthood of Christ whereof onely there is mention made in the Actes of the Apostles except it be in the. 14. of the Acts where Luke speaketh of heathnish priests as of the priest of Jupiter so that my question is as yet vnanswered by you Ansvvere to the Additions c. Fol. 5. But of the Bishops benediction by laying on of his handes heare master Caluines iudgement in this Instit. cap. 19. Section 4. Talem manuum Imposition of handes in confirmation allowed by Caluin impositionem quae simpliciter loco benedictionis fiat laudo restitutam hodiè in purum vsum velim Such imposition of handes as is simplie made in the stead of blessing I do commende and vvish that it vvere restored at this day to the pure vse There shall you also read the verie self same forme and maner of confirmation allowed which is now vsed in this Church of England T. C. Pag. 174. Sect. 2. Master Doctor vpon the. 5. leafe cyteth M. Caluins authoritie to proue that the laying on of the handes vpon yong children the confirmation which is here vsed is good In the which place although he allow of a kinde of confirmation yet he doth not commend that which we haue For he doth plainly reproue Ierome for saying that it came from the Apostles which notwithstanding the confirmation with vs doth affirme Besides that there are other abuses which I haue noted there which M. Caluin doth not by any worde allow He alloweth indeede of a putting on of handes of the children when they come out of their childehoode or begin to be yong men but as well as he doth allow of it he was one of those which did thrust it out of the Chuch where he was Pastor And (*) He re you make M. Caluine contrarie to him selfe but vntruly so he alloweth of it that he bringeth in the sixt Section of the same Chapter a strong reason to abolish it Where he asketh what the imposition of handes shoulde do now seeing that the giftes of the holy Ghost by that ceremonie is ceased Therefore seeing that we haue M. Caluins reason agaynst this imposition of handes his name ought not to be preiudiciall vnto vs especially seeing that we haue experience of great inconuemences which come by it which maister Caluin could not haue that thing being not in vse in that Church where he liued Which inconuenience in things which are not necessarie ought to be a iust cause of abolishing of them And this is not my indgement onely but the iudgement of the Churches of Heluetia Berne Tigurine Geneua Scotlande and diuers others as appeareth in the. 19. Chap. of their confession Io. Whitgifte The common refuge of the Replier is to discredite the Authour Here you would shift of M. Caluins authoritie if you knew how but béeing ouerpressed with his manifest wordes you flie to your common vsual refuge that is to discredite the Authour by charging him with contrarieties in this matter for you confesse that he alloweth a kind of confimation you say also that he alloweth in deed of a putting on of handes of the children when they come out of their childhoode or begin to be yong men and againe you affirme that he was one of those that did thrust it oute of the Churche where he was Pastor and that he bringeth in the 6. Section of the same Chapter a strong reason to abolish it Thus you set Master Caluine against himselfe and that in the same Caluin vntruely charged with contrariety by the Replyer Chapter which cannot but turne to his great discredite if it were true but you greatly abuse both the Reader and him for in the. 4. section which I haue alledged he speaketh of that maner of confirmation imposition of handes which was vsed in the olde Church and the same that is nowe vsed in the Church of Englande which he alloweth and wisheth restored In the fifth
and sixth sections he speaketh of the maner and forme of confirmation and laying on of handes vsed by the Papists and disproueth that as his owne wordes which I haue for that purpose more at large set downe do plainly declare for in the fourth Section of the. 19. Chapter thus hee wryteth This was the maner in tymes past that the children of Christians shoulde bee Caluin inst cap. 9 sect 4. set before the Bishop after they were come to yeares of discretion that they might performe that which was required of them that being of age did offer themselues to baptisme For these sat among the Catechumeni vntill being rightly instructed in the mysteries of fayth they were able to vtter a confession of their fayth before the Bishop and the people The insants therefore that were baptised bicause then they made no confession of A kind of con described by Caluin not disagreeing from ours fayth in the Church at the ende of their childehoode or in the beginning of their youth they were againe presented of their parents and were examined of the Bishop according to a certaine and common forme of a Catechisme And to the intent that this action which otherwise ought of right to be graue and holy might haue the greater reuerence and estimation there was added also the ceremonie of laying on of handes so the childe was dismissed his fayth being approued with a solemne blessing The auncient fathers make often mention of this order Pope Leo If any man returne from heretikes let him not againe be baptised but let the vertue of the spirite which was wanting be giuen vnto him by the laying on of the Bishops handes Here our aduersaries will crie that it is rightly called a Sacrament wherein the holy Ghost is giuen But Leo himselfe doth in another place expounde what he meaneth by those wordes He that is baptised sayth he of heretikes let him not be rebaptised but let him be cōfirmed with the inuocation of the holy Ghost by the imposition of handes bicause he receyued only the forme of baptisme without sanctification Hierome also maketh mention hereof contra Luciferianos Although I doe not denie that Herome is somwhat herein deceyued that he sayth that it is an Apostolicall obseruation yet is he most farre from these mens follies And he mittigateth it when he sayth that this blessing was graunted only to the Bishop rather for the honour of priesthood than by the necessitie of the law VVherefore such an imposition of handes which is simply in stead of a blessing I commend and would wish it were at these dayes restored to the pure vse These words be euident declare a maner of confirmation correspondent to ours In the fifth Section he wryteth thus But the latter age haue brought in a counterfey e The abuse of confirmation in the popish Church confirmation in stead of a Sacrament of God the thing it selfe beeing almost quite blotted out They feyne this to be the vertue of confirmation to giue the holy Ghost vnto the encrease of grace whiche was giuen in baptisme to innocencie of lyfe to confirme them vnto battail which in baptisme were regenerated vnto life This confirmation is wrought with annointing and this forme of wordes I signe the with the signe of the holy Ghost and I confirme thee with the oyntment of saluation in the name of the father and of the sonne and of the holy ghost c. And in confuting this maner of confirmation and imposition of handes he procéedeth on in this fifth Section in the sixth Section Wherefore Master Caluine is not contrarie to himselfe neyther disalloweth that kinde of confirmation and imposition of handes in the sixth Section which he alloweth in the fourth But in the one he approueth the maner of the auncient and purer Church touching confirmation in the other he disproueth the vse doctrine of the papistical church cōcerning the same This might you haue sene if you had bin disposed but you care not whom you discredit so that you may winne credit to your selfe The confession of the Churches of Heluetia Berne c. speake only of the Popishe The Repl viech that against our confirmation which is 〈◊〉 of the Papistes Confess Heluet cap. 19. confirmation which the Papists make one of their seuen Sacraments as it is manifest by the wordes of the confession which be these Confirmation and extreame vnction or anealing are the inuentiōs of man which the church may wante without any dammage Neither vse we them in our churches for they haue some things which we can not allowe Nowe to vse that against Confirmation reformed purged from these things which they mislike which is spoken of the Popishe confirmation with all the abuses can it be thinke you the parte of an honest and playne dealing man Ansvvere to the Additions c. Fol. 6. In the ende of that fiftenth article or reason this is added And whiche of them haue not preached against the Popes twoo swordes now whether they vse thē not them selues Touching the Popes twoo swordes we are of the same minde still for the Pope contrary to the word of God taketh from Princes vnto him selfe that authoritie which is due vnto them by the worde of God and would haue them to receiue that authoritie from him whiche he hath no power to giue the Pope also requireth the full authoritie of a ciuill magistrate and exempteth him self from all subiection which is lat cōtrary to the word of God our Bishops Bishops doo not vse the ciuiil sworde as the pope doth in this church do not chalenge as of their owne right any such ciuil authoritie but only according to their dutie execute that that by the Prince and lawes of this realme for iust considerations is laide vpō them Neither do they meddle in all ciuill causes or exercise all ciuill iurisdiction but suche only as helpeth to discipline and to the good gouernment of this church and state wherfore we may safely preach against the Popes twoo swordes and yet lawefully defend that iurisdictiō and authoritie that any Bishop hath in this church for any thing that I knowe T. C. Page 174. Sect. 3. Upon the sixt leafe M. Doctor saith that the Pope taketh the sworde from Princes but our Bishops take it at their handes and giuen of them as though challenge were not made against the Pope for vsing the materiall sworde and not only for vsing it against the wil of the Princes For by that reason if Princes would put their swordes in his hande as sometimes they haue done he might lawefully vse them And wheras he saieth that our churchmen meddle not with all ciuill causes or exercise all ciuill iurisdiction but such as helpeth to discipline and the good gouernment of the church the estate What sayth he that is not truly sayd of any ciuill magistrate in the realme For no one doth meddle in all causes And further I would gladly knowe
what ciuil iurisdiction is in this realme which helpeth not vnto the good gouernment of this church and estate For if they medle with al that there is none which they haue not to do with Io. Whitgifte The thing it selfe declareth and the practise of this church is euident in what sorte Differēce betwixt the ciuil iurisdiction of the Pope of our Bishops and condition such ciuill offices are cōmitted to ecclesiasticall persons and that they do not rule as kinges but as subiectes to kinges nor that they challe ge not this of any other authoritie but from the Prince and that they vse it to no other end than the good and godly gouernment of the churche whereas the Pope ruleth as Emperoure and kyng not as subiecte challengeth his authoritie of dutie and by the word of God not by the graunte of Princes and vseth it moste Tyrannically euen to the placing and displacing of kinges and Empereurs at his pleasure And this is that vsurped iurisdiction which all good men crye out of and mislike and not the other which is ordinary vsuall and lawefull When I saye that Bishoppes haue that ciuill iurisdiction which helpeth to discipline and the good gouernment of the churche and state all men may vnderstande that I meane suche ciuill iurisdiction as is méete for them to execute and agreable to their vocation and calling Ansvvere to the Additions c. Fol. 7. Whereas before it was thus in the margent and. 19. reason To proue that the regiment of the Churche should bee spirituall reade Ephes. 1. 23. 1. Thes. 5. 13. 1. Tim. 5. 2. Heb. 10. 30. nowe it is thus altered to proue that the regiment of the churche should be spirituall reade Caluine in his Commentaries vpon these places Ephe. 1. 23. 1. Thes. 5. 13. 1. Ti. 5. 2. Heb. 10. 30. Belike bicause the scriptures them selues doe not sufficiently proue your assertion therfore you would haue vs to leaue them and to rest vpon Caluines interpretation which is nothing else but to preferre mans iudgemēt before the word of God or to giue M. Caluine authoritie to conclude that whiche is not determined by the scripture If this be not your meaning why flie you frō those places them selues to M. Caluines interpretation vpon them But what if you now abuse M. Caluines Commentaries vpon these places as you did before the places them selues In his commentaries vpon Ephe. 1. vers 23. This is al that he sayth touching this matter Nam vtcunque Christus omnia perficiat nutu virtureque sua tamen specialiter loquitur hic Paulus de spirituali ecclesiae gubernatione Quanquā nihil intereà impedit quominùs de vniuersali mundi gubernatione accipias For hovvesoeuer Christe maketh perfecte all things vvith his beck and by his povver yet Paule speaketh here especially of the spirituall gouernment of the church Although that in the meane time it is no hinderance vvhy thou maist not also vnderstande it of the vniuersall gouernment of the vvorld These wordes serue little for your purpose There is no man that doubteth but that Christe doth spiritually gouerne his church and reigne in the hearts of the faithfull by his spirit But your meaning is that the gouernment of the churche is only spirituall which you can no more gather of these words of Caluine than you may that of the gouernment the whole worlde ought only to be spirituall The same Caluine writing vpon 1. Thes. 5. vers 12. for the which you haue noted the. 13. sayth on this sorte Hoc additum videtur ad notandum spirituale regimen tameesi enim reges quoque magistratus Dei ordinatione praesunt quia tamen ecclesiae gubernationem dominus peculiariter vult suam agnosci ideò nominatim praeesse in Domino dicuntur qui Christi nomine mandato ecclesiā gubernant This seemes to be added to note the spirituall regiment For although kings also and magistrates do gouerne by the ordinance of God yet bicause the Lorde vvould haue the gouernment of the churche knovven peculiarly to be his therefore namely they are sayde to rule in the Lorde vvhich gouernethe the church in the name of Christe and by his commaundement Hetherto Caluine also affirmeth that whiche no man denieth that God doth by the ministerie of his worde spiritually gouerne his churche But this taketh not awaye the eiuill magistrate neither yet ciuill lawes made by the Magistrate externally also to gouerne the churche In his Commentaries 1 Ti. 5 vers 2. he speaketh not one worde of this matter for any thing that I can perceiue Upon the place to the Hebrewes he onely sheweth that God doth gouerne his church the which I thinke no man is so wicked as to denye You must more plainly set it downe what your meaning in this matter is before you can be fully answered For to proue that God doth spiritually gouerne his churche is nedelesse being denied Anabaptisme after a sort fended of none either Papiste or Protestante but therevpon to cōclude that the ciuill Magistrate is secluded from the gouernment of the church or that there nedeth no externall regiment is daungerous and sauoreth Anabaptisme T. C. Page 174. Sect. vlt. Upon the seuenth leafe he sayth that he knoweth not the meaning of the Admonition when it proueth that the gouernment of the church is spirituall their meaning is playne enough and I haue declared it more at large to be not only that our sauiour Christe ruleth by his spirite in the hearts of his elect besides which gouernment M. Doctor seemeth to knowe none but that there is also spirituall gouernment which is in the whole church visible and to be seene exercised by those whome God hath appointed in his steade called spirituall bicause wheras the ciuill gouernment vseth the sworde this vseth the worde and where the ciuil gouernour addresseth him selfe vnto the body and hath that for speciall matter to worke on the spirituall gouernours be occupied in reforming the mynde and subduing that with those punishementes corrections which God hath appointed for that purpose Which signification of spirituall gouernment M. Caluine doth speake of in both the places alleadged by M. Doctor and especially in the latter vnto whome the Admonition sent the Reader not thereby to giue more weighte vnto the truthe but that he might haue there a playner and fuller vnderstanding of that which is ment and could not for that breuitie and shortnesse which it followeth throughout vtter at large Whereby it is manifest that the Admonition is so farre frō shutting out either ciuill gouernment or externall gouernment in the churche that it teacheth of an externall gouernment which M. doctor seemeth not to haue heard of albert there be nothing either more common in the scriptures or ecclesiasticall writers Io. Whitgifte You replye not to my answere neither doe you tell vs why you haue lefte out the places of Scripture before quoted and in place thereof put M Caluine Neither haue you
tayle for the tayle of the beast as learned Tayle of Antichrist what it is mē say be false Prophets Hypocrites such as stirre vp Schismes factions among true Christians and by pretence of zeale by cloaked and coloured meanes seeke to draw into the church Antichrist backward as Cacus did the oxen into his denne Io. Whitgifte To these things y e Replier hath giuen his consent as it should séeme by his silence ¶ Articles collected out of the former Admonition and vntruly sayd of the fautors of that Admonition to be falsified To the end of the second Admonition there is ioyned A reprofe of certaine Articles collected as it is thought by the Bishops for so they say out of a litle booke entituled An Admonition to the Parliament c. But as I thinke it may rather be termed a recantation or if you will a reformatiō or mitigatiō of certen articles in that first admonition rashly setdowne without learning or discretion printed 1. Fol. 3. lib. 1. pag. 2. First they hold affirme that we in England are not yet Scarce the face of a Church come to the outward face of a church agreable to Gods worde Here you finde fault that this worde scarce is left out Indeede this word scarce was written in the margent of diuers copies of the first Admonition whether it were so in all or no I know not no more do I whether any such collectiō as you pretend was made But what neede you so muche sticke in wordes when the thing is manifest for in effect they denie as much as that proposition importeth they wholy condēne the mynisterie the ceremonies the gouernment of this church They say the sacraments be full of corruptions in theyr second Admonition Fol 42. they say that the sacraments are wickedly māgled prophaned they vtterly condēne our order māner of common prayer yea in effect our doctrine also for in their secōd Admonitiō Fol. 7 they say that although some truth be taught by some preachers yet no preacher may without daūger of the lawes vtter all truth comprised in the booke of God What can be spoken more slenderly of the doctrine preached in this church A mā may truly speake as much of the Romishe churche for some truthe is taught by some Papists yea some truth is taught by some Iewe Turke When therfore you say that in this church neither the worde is truly preached nor the sacramēts sincerely ministred nor yet Ecclesiasticall discipline which thre in the first Admonition Fol. 3. is sayde to be the outwarde markes whereby a true Christian church is knowne and also condemne our mynisterie as Popish and vnlawfull with the whole gouernment of Vix ▪ signifieth somtime non our Church as you do in playne termes may it not be truely sayde that you affirme vs in England as yet not to be come to the outward face of a church agreable to Gods worde Furthermore what doth this word scarce helpe the matter doth it not importe as much it is a rule in Philosophie Quod vix fit non fit that vvhich is scarce done is not done T. C. Pag. 175. Sect. 3. 4. 5. As for Answere to the Articles collected out of the Admonition it is made in the Replie vnto M. Doctors booke where I haue shewed how the Admonition is misconstrued and taken otherwise than eytherit meameth or speaketh wherevnto I will referre the Reader And albeit I haue shewed how vntrue it is that the Admonition affirmeth that there is no church in England yet I can not passe by the secrete Philosophie whereby M. Doctor woulde proue that the Authors of the Admonition affirme it For sayth he by y e rule of Philosophie Quod vix fit non fit that which is scarse done is not done I say this is secrete for it was neuer taught neyther in Academia nor in stoa nor Lyceo I haue redde Quod fere fit non fit that which is almost done is not done But I neuer remember any such rule as M. Doctor speaketh of And besides that in our tongue those things which are sayd to be scarce are notwithstanding oftentimes supposed to be As when a man sayth that there is scarce a man aliue c. the scripture also vseth that phrase of speach of things which are as when it sayth the iust man shall scarce be saued it doth not meane that iust men shall not be saued The rest of that I haue answered Io. Whitgifte I proue by their owne manifest woordes that they in déede affirme that we in England are not yet come to the outwarde face of a Church agreable to Gods worde all whiche proofes you omit and let passe cauilling onely at this woorde scarce which is a manifest What y ◠word vix importeth argument of a wrangler And yet is not this manner of speaking Quod vix sit non sit so straunge Philosophie as you would gladly haue it for this woorde vix eyther signifieth with violence great difficultie to do a thing or else it is referred to the time or else it signifieth non as in Ouide vix Priamus tanti that is non tanti Priamus as Donatus doth expoūd it I thinke you will not haue it to be taken in the first significatiō by the Authors of y e Admonitiō for then there is no sense in their wordes if it be taken in either of the latter significations as it must of necessitie be then the Philosophie is not secrete ▪ but open and knowne to euery yong Grammarian In our English phrase it is commonly taken for non as when we say a thing is Vix in english commonly taken for non scarce done we signifie that is not yet done Likewise when a man sayth that he is scarce well he meaneth that he is not well He hath scarce made an end of his sermon ▪ y t is he hath not made an end of his sermon It is scarce ix of y e clocke that is it is not yet ix of the clocke Euen so we are scarce come to the outward forme of a church rightly reformed c. that is we are not yet come c. Euery child y t cā speake knoweth this to be so When the scripture saith that a iust man shall scarce be saued this woorde vix is taken in y e first significatiō that is with great difficultie in this signification it is oftētimes taken in the scripture but so can it not be in their manner of speach Ansvvere to certayne Articles c. 2. They will haue the mynisters to be called allowed and placed by the people You say that this Article is falsified yet their wordes in that place of their Admonition be these Then election was made by the cōmon consent of the whole Churche And a litle after Then no mynister was placed in any congregation without the consent of the people Wherfore the collection is very true and they belike ashamed of their
doings and therfore they haue corrected these assertiōs in their second edition of the first Admonition on this sorte Then election was made by the elders with the cōmon cōsent of the whole church Surely these men be past shame else woulde they not denie their owne written assertions T. C. Pag. 175. Sect. 6. And whereas he sayth that it is al one to say that the election of the mynister must be made by (*) A manifest 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you leaue out this worde whole the church to say It must be made by the people it is a great ouersight to make the parte whole all one seing y e people be but one part of the church the mynister and the other gouernours are albeit not the greatest yet the principallest part I graunt that sometimes a parte is taken for the whole and so we do call sometimes the gouernours of the churche the churche and sometimes the people But where the question is of the proprietie of these speaches the Church and the people there all men that haue any iudgement can easily put a difference Io. Whitgifte What I haue sayde how truly you haue reported my wordes how aptly you haue replied to my Answere euen the very simple Reader may easily vnderstand therfore for answers to this I shall only desire him to compare our wordes togither and then it shall easily appeare how you haue falsified my wordes for wheras I gather out of these wordes of y e Admonition Election was made by the common cōsent of the whole Church therfore their collection is true which say that they would haue the mynisters to be called allowed placed by the people you either of purpose or by ouersight which is very vsuall with you haue left out y e worde whole make as though I should say that it is all one to say that the election must be made by the church to say it must be made by the people should confound the people the church the part with the whole which is a manifest vntruth But by y e way it is to be noted y t you séeme to separate the people frō the election of mynisters for you will not haue the worde Church in the Admonition to cōprehend the people else why haue you these words when the question is of the proprietie of these speaches the church and the people and surely it may séeme that this is their meaning bicause in their second edition they say the election was made by the Elders with the common consent of the people so that the election should be made by the Elders and the people only should cōsent to the election which is contrary to the rest of your assertion Ansvvere to certayne Articles c. 4. Lin. 9. They hold that a Bishop at no hande hath authoritie to ordeyne ministers This Article you confesse to be truely gathered but now you make this glosse not alone and yet in their Admonition it is in flat termes that the ordering of mynisters doth at no hand apperteyne to Bishops 6. Lin. 28. They will haue the mynisters at theyr owne pleasure to preach without lycence This is true by your owne cōfessiō for you will haue no other licēce but your calling to the ministerie which must be as you say by the congregation Here you shut out both the Princes licence and the Bishops 7. Lin. 13. fol. 17. Lin. 6. pag. 1. Whatsoeuer is set down in this Article is manifestly affirmed in the Admonitiō your answere to it is friuolous and nothing to the purpose For in the firste parte of the Admonition ▪ Fol. 2. pag. 1. These be the wordes In those dayes knowne by voice learning doctrine now they must be discerned frō other by Popish Antichristian apparell as cap gowne tippet c. And in the second part speaking of the apparell prescribed to ministers they say on this sort There is no order in it but confusion no comelinesse but deformitie no obediēce but disobediēce both against God and the Prince Are you not then ashamed to say that this Article They will haue the mynister discerned from others by no kinde of apparell and the apparell appoynted they terme Antichristian and the apparell appoynted by the Prince disobedience agaynst the Prince is falsified Fol. 4. Lin. 1. Pag. 2. They will haue all Archbishops Bishops Archdeacons c. together with their offices iurisdictions courtes and liuings cleane taken away and with speede remoued You say that this is falsified in parte bicause there is left out Lords grace Iustice of peace and Quorum c. Surely the Article is truly collected in euery poynt and playnely affirmed in the. 2. leafe of the first parte of that Admonition As for your gibing wordes that follow they be but winde I warrāt you the cōfutatiō will abide the light the Author will shew his face which you are ashamed to do 9. Lin. 9. The Article is truly collected looke in the first parte of that Admonition Fol. 2. Pag. 2. Fol. 3. And in the second part of that Admonition Fol. 1. pag. 2. Fol. 5. pag. 1. 17. Lin. 12. The collection is true for their wordes be these They simply as they receyued it from the Lorde we sinfuily mixed with mans inuentions and deuises And therfore you vntruly say that it is falsified 19. Lin. 16. They will haue no Godfathers nor Godmothers you say that this Article is also vtterly falsified what meane you so to forget your sslfe Is it not thus writtē in the first part of y e first Admonitiō o. 3 pa. 2. Godfathers and Godmothers once disallowed after recāted And as for Baptisme it was enough with them if they had water and the partie to be baptised fayth and the mynister to preache the worde and mynister the Sacramentes Nowe we must haue surplesse deuised by Pope Adrian Interrogatories mynistred to the infant Godfathers and Godmothers brought in by Higinus c Howe say you are not Godfathers and Godmothers here disallowed wherefore be they else in this place recyted or why are they here ascribed to Pope Higinus will you now allow any thing in the Church inuented by the Pope In deede in the second edition of this firste Admonition these wordes Godfathers and Godmothers brought in by Higinus be cleane left out as I haue before noted Wherfore eyther you haue not redde the diuersitie of their editions or else you are very impudent 22. Fol 8. in fine I maruell why you say that this collection is falsified Looke Fol. vlt. pag 2. of the first part of the Admonition T. C. Pag. 175. Sect. 6. The rest of those articles are answered in the discourse of the booke Besides that the fanlts which are found with the vntrue gathering of them are not taken away by M. Doctor but only in confident bould asseuerations And if I should say any thing I should but repeat their wordes Io. Whitgifte The iudgement hereof
condemning of all degrées of Schole properly perteyning to Diuinitie A vievve of the seconde Admonition In the fourth parte the Author taketh vpon him to set downe A newe plat forme a platforme of a Churche to prescribe the maner of electing ministers of their exercises of their equalitie of the gouernment of the Churche c. Whiche surely beeing well considered 〈◊〉 appeare not onely a confused platforme without any sounde warraute of God worde but also a fantasticall deuise tending to the ouerthrowe of learning religion yea the whole state and gouernment of the common wealth But bicause I haue before in the confutation of the first Admonition spoken sufficiently of all these matters therfore I wyll onely note one or two thinges in this parte to lette you vnderstande that these platformers buylde not vpon that foundation that they would haue others so strictly bound vnto for let them tell me vpon One minister not to meddle in another mans charge what Scripture this is grounded Let no one minister medle in any cure saue his owne but as he is appoynted by common consent of the nexte conference or Councels Prouinciall or Nationall or further if it may fall out so generall of all Churches reformed ▪ Or this That the ministers must be equall and that some must be gouerned by all and not all by some Or that The Pastor or teacher in euery congregation ought to be the Principall of the consistorie of their congregation Or that Many parishes may be ioyned in one and haue one Pastor and yet that it is vnlawful for one Pastor to haue many Parishes Or that In the meane whyle tyll preachers encrease to furnish the places vnfurnished vpon conference among the learned some discrete man be appoynted to make some entyer prayer c. Io. Whitgifte Passed ouer in silence A vievve of the seconde Admonition Or that it is euill so ofte to repeate Glory be to the father c. Lorde haue mercy vpon Repetition of prayer is not euill vs. c. Or the Lords prayer for the text whiche they alleage for the same Math. 6. is wickedly wrested and corruptly alleaged for the wordes of Christ be not as they translate them when you pray ▪ vse not vayne repetitions but vvhen you pray vse not muche babling whereby not the ofte repetition of good prayers but vayne babling in prayers that is many wordes without fayth and the inwarde affection of the mynde is forbidden Paule 1. Thes. 5. sayth Pray continually And Christ Matth. 6. sayth Pray on this maner Our father c. So that of necessitie we must oftentimes repeate the Lords prayer if we wyll beleeue Christ and his Apostle Paule But Lorde what straunge doctrine is this to call Glory be to the father c. Lorde haue mercy vpon vs. c. Our father c. Popishe Surely these men as I suppose be not well in their wits T. C. Pag. 176. Sect. 3. For the repetition of Gloria patri c. I haue spoken sufficiently before but what spirite is it that calleth this translation of the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vse not vayne repetitions a wycked wresting of S. Mathewes place in his sixt chapter what rasor is this that cueteth so sharpe Knoweth he agaynst whome and agaynst the excellent learning and singular pietie of howe many he eaketh For this is the translation of those learned and godly men which translated the Byble which is commonly called the Geneua Byble and is this a wicked wresting Admitte it were not translated exactly to the worde of the Euangelist is it therefore a wresting and a wicked wresting 〈◊〉 hat I will not say wicked but false conclusion or doctrine can be grounded of this tr nslation And they that translate it thus haue not onely the authoritie of the Lexicons to confirme their translation w ch shewe that this worde was taken vp in reproche of a foolishe Poet called Battus which vsed to repeate one thing many times but they haue also the circumstance of the place to warrant it For the reason which our auiour Christ vseth to draw men from this faul leadeth to this translation and can not stande with that sense which M. Doctor setteth downe For howe hang these togither you shall not bable many words without fayth c. bicause your heauenly father knoweth what you haue neede of before you aske It is vnlike first that our sauiour Christ would speake thus bable not many wordes without ayth c. when as rather he would haue forbidden them to speake any one worde without fayth c. For if he shoulde speake thus he should seeme to haue allowed a prayer without fayth so that it were not conceyued in many words And agayne if as M. Doctor sayth this had beene the proposition which our sauiour Christ diswaded from that they should not bable many words without fayth c. he woulde neuer h ue added this reason for your heauēly father knoweth c. for neyther is he father vnto any such And he would rather haue sayde as S. James in the first chap. sayth that they shoulde be sure to receyue nothing bicause they aske not in fayth Nowe as this reason can not stande with M. Doctors interpretation so doth it well ag ee with the translation of the Geneua Byble For what could be more fitly sayde to driue the disciples from this vayne repetition than to say that the heauenly father knoweth c. and that it is not with the Lorde as it is with men that muste haue a thing oftentimes spoken or euer they can vnderstande it Furthermore what a reason is his we must repeate y e Lords prayer oftentimes therfore we must repeate it oftentimes in hal e an houre and one in the necke of an other And if S. Paules place to the Thes. pray continually bee referred vnto the saying of the Lords prayer as M. Doctor woulde beare vs in hande then it is not lawfull for vs to vse any other words than those which our sauiour Christ vsed But I could neuer yet learne that those words binde vs of necessit e any more vnto the repe tion of the Lordes prayer worde for worde than vnto the repetition of any other godly prayer in the scripture And I would be lothe to saye that it were simply necessarie to vse that iust number of wordes and neyther more nor lesse any time muche lesse oftentimes in so smal a space For our sauiour Christ doth not there giue a pre cript forme of rayer whervnto he vindeth vs but giueth vs a rule and squire to frame all our prayers by as I haue before declared I know it is necessarie to pray and to pray often I kn we lso that in so fewe words it is impossible for any man to frame so pithy a prayer And I confesse that the Church doth well in concluding their prayers with the Lords prayer but I stand vpon this that there is no necessitie layde vpon
vs to vse these very words and no more and especially that the place of S. P le to the Thessalomans dothe least of all proue it As for M. Doctors outcries he hath so often worne our eares with them and that without cause that I thinke by this tunc no man regardeth them Io. Whitgifte I doe not say that so to translate the place is a wicked wresting or corrupte alleaging of it but this I say that that place is wicke ly wrested and corruptly alleaged 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 inter reted Beza by the Adm nition to improue the oft rep titien of the Lords prayer Neyther doe I thinke that translation to be so apt as the other is M. Beza in his notes vpon this place of S. Mat. sayth thus Ne sit is loquaces 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be not full of wordes Vulg. Nolite multum loqui doe not bable muche Erasmus Ne itis multiloqui id est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quo id m declaratur Longae tamen preces hîc non damnātur sed quae vanae sunt inanes super titiosae Longa enim non est oratio in qua nihil redundat centra vero breuis esse non potest quae non proficiscitur ex nimo pio fideli Be not bablers or full of words that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wherby the same thing is signified yet are not long prayers heere condemned but those that are vayne fond superstitious For it is not a long prayer wherin nothing is to much on the other side it can not be short which proceedeth not out of a godly faithfull mind And that this is the true interpretation of this worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it appeareth Erasmus by that which followeth in the same place 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for they thinke to be heard for their muche babling Upon the whiche words Erasmus giueth this note Hîc non est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sed proprio vsus est verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 veluti exponens quid dixerit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Heere is not the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but he vseth the proper worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as it were expounding what he mente by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 You sée therfore that the one word expeūdeth the other which is the surest way of interpreting M. Caluine vpō the same place sayth thus Porro eorū stultitiā reprehendit Caluine Chris us qui vt Deū persuadea t exorent multum verborum profundunt Furthermore Christ reprehendeth their folly which do spende many words that they may persuade and Nou gl ssa entreate God And noua glossa ordinaria dothe interprete the worde in lyke maner Ferunt Bat tum quendam fuisse in ptum Poetā qui multis vanis ad nauseam vsque repetitis verbis Batt s a ba 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 poemata sua conscripserit ad hoc vnum in t ntus vt multus esset in verbis vnde sumptum sit verbum Battologizare pro inaniter esse multiloquum It is reported that there was a certayne fooly she Poete called Battus which wrote his verses with many and vayne repeting of wordes euen vnto the lothing of any man being only bent vnto this one thing that he might haue many wordes of whom this worde Battologizare was taken for him that is full of vayne wordes By al which authorities interpretations of these learned mē Christ doth not speake against the oft repetition of the Lords prayer or any other godly prayers but against vaine babling in praiers multiplying of wordes without faith whether it be by oft repeating or multiplying of them And therfore also saith M. Martyr Quare at ēdendum Martyr in 1. Sam. 1. Babling in prayer what it is est multiloquium tum adhiberi non cum diu precamur sed cum citra fidem spiritum verbamultiplicamus wherfore it is to be marked that then is there much babling not whē we pray long but when we multiply wordes without faith and spirite Neither is there any wryter that doth otherwise interprete this place not euen those that translate it vayne repetitions And the reasons wherby you would ouerthrow this sense be words only not reasons Long o yer r repetitions net 〈◊〉 but babli of worde 〈◊〉 our fayt Math. 26. for who can thinke y t Christ doth here condēne long prayers or many wordes or the repetition of godly praiers himselfe continuing in prayers a whole night in the mountaine oftentimes repeating one the same prayer not long before he suffered his passion Math. 26 and willing vs to pray continually not to be weary But that only he forbiddeth many words without faith whether it be as I said by multiplying or by repeating but what should we dally where the wordes of Christ be playne for he saith Verum orantes ne sitis multiloqui ficut Ethneci Putant enim fore vt ob multiloquiū suum Luke 18. exaudiantur Ne igitur efficiamini similes storum nouit enim pater vester c. But when ye pray vse not much babling as the Heathen do for they thinke that they are heard for their much babling be ye not therfore like vnto thē for your father knoweth wherof you haue neede Math. 6. before you aske of him The wordes be manifest all interpreters agrée vpon t ē and therfore this your dallying is but a prophanation of them If we repeate the Lordes prayer twenty times in halfe an houre so it be done in Christe vseth repetition of y e same prayer Math. 26. vers 44. faith zeale it is not this multilo quium or vayne repetitions that Chris e speaketh of in this place Christ himself as I haue said before repeated thrice one prayer in the same wordes as it is euident Math. 26. which he would not ha e do e if y e faithful zealous repetition of prayers had bin this much babling or vayne repetitiōs wher of he speaketh in this 6. of Math. I do not say that the place of S. Paule 1. Thes. 5. is to be vnderstanded only of the Lordes prayer but this is my saying that for asmuch as we are cōmaunded to praye continually by S. Paule in that place th Lord hath sayd when ye praye pray on this manner Our father which art in heauen c. Therfore the oft repetition of this prayer being in faith zeale can not bée accounted vayne repetition or much babling I know it is lawfull to vse other godly prayers besides it neither haue you euer heard me vtter one worde to the contrary I know likewise that it is not only a prayer to be vsed but also a rule to be followed in framing all our other prayers by whatsoeuer And yet a prayer it is and a necessary prayer to be vsed as the very wordes of Christ do declare A vievve of the second Admonition These a number of other
phansies they haue in this booke which they can not grounde vpon any scriptures but by wringing and wresting of them and in deede their seeking is to haue all things framed according to their fansies that they may be accompted planters and platformers of churches I omitte this that the author boasteth that he and many others will set thē selues against vs as the professed enimies of the churche of Christ For the matter is not great neither shall they in that point dea e an otherwyse with vs than the Anabaptistes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ther H e likes haue dealte with other Churches This shal be sufficiēt for an answere to y ◠booke bicause all other matters of substance are by me answered before in the former cōfutatiō Io. Whitgifte Nothing answered neither is this proclamation of defense solued A briefe ansvvere to certaine Pamphlets spread abroad of late I haue of late receiued three litle Pamphlets the first as it were a preface to the other two the second entituled An exhortation to the Bishops to deale brotherly with their brethren The thirde An exhortation to the Bishops and their clergie to answere a litle booke that came foorth the last Parliament and to other brethren to iudge of it by Gods worde vntil they see it answered and not be carried away with any respect of men The preface cōsisteth of these pointes especially first by diuers exāples it is there declared that the wicked and vngodly of this world could neuer away with suche as would reproue them for their manifest sinnes and vngodlines Secondly that this is the cause why these twoo treatises whiche were lately written and imprinted in the laste Parliament time c. wer of so many misliked and the authors therof so cruelly entreated and streightly imprisoned c. Thirdly it raileth on the bishops and such as be in authoritie comparing them to false prophets and to Phariseis c. Last of all it cōcindeth with threatening that if they go forwarde in their synnes their doings shal be with more bitternes of wordes and plainenesse of speache throwen into their faces The first is nedelesse for who knoweth not that from time to time it hath bin the manner of such as were desperatly wicked not to suffer their sinnes openly to be reproued The second is false vncharitable slaunderous for the cause why the bookes be not estemed especially of the wise learned is the vntrue doctrine conteined in them mainteined with vntrue and v apt allegations of the scriptures and enterlaced with opprobrious termes and railing speaches tending to the disquietnes of the church and ouerthrow of true religiō The authors therof to be imprisoned not for telling any mā of his sinnes but for writing libels against this whole church of England against the booke of common praer against the ministery against y e sacraments finally against the whole forme and gouernmēt of the church by the whole consent of this Realme established and according to the rule of Gods word And with what face can you say that they be imprisoned for telling men of their sinnes where euer reade you or heard you that any of the Prophets or Apostles tolde men of their sinnes by libels Surely Libelling is no true way of reforming that kinde of dealing is not for the Apostles of Christe but for the ministers of Sathan T C. Pag. 177. Sect. 1. here he saith the authors of the Admomtion are not punished or their booke misliked for that it telleth of the faults in the church or of the sinnes of men but for y t it mainteineth false doctrine for that they preferred a libel for the doctrine it appeareth by that which is said what it is And if he would define what a libel were ▪ it were easy to answere vnto the other point If he meane bicause it was preferred without any name vnto it how will he answere (*) Forsoo h 〈◊〉 you make wicked comparison to the example of S. Iohn in y e Apocalips who reprehend ng the ministers o diuers churches ▪ did not (a) A manifest vntruth put to his name vnto his book And to the writer of the Epistle vnto the Hebrewes ▪ which was a singular instrument and did not subscribe his epistle wherin notwithstāding he sharply rebuketh diuers faults amongst thē And yet S. Iohn nor the writer to the Hebrues were not the ministers of Satan And if he call it a libell bycause it vseth some sharper speaches surely all men see that his booke deserueth then to be called a Satyr hauing for tart words bitter and for one twenty But in what respect soeuer he calleth it a libell he accuseth not so much the authours of the Admonition for preferring of it as diuers of the honorable house of Parliament which did allow it Io. Whitgifte The comparison is very vnequall and odious that you make betwixte the holy bookes of the Scripture indited by the spirit of God and reputed and taken as portions of the canonicall scriptures wherein only we haue to séeke the doctrine of saluation and these rayling rude vncharitable and vnlearned Admonitions And yet in the one of them that is in the Reuelation you are fouly ouershot for the name of Iohn setteth his name to the Apocalips both in the beginning end the author of that booke is expressed thrée times in the firste chapter and that with such circumstances that it cannot well be doubted who the author was though you would cauill about the multiplicitie of the name Likewise his name is expressed in the latter chapter of the booke wherefore you were not well aduised when you set it downe that S. Iohn in the Apocalips did not put his name to his booke He saithe in the. 1. cap. in the first verse Seruo suo Iohanni and in the. 4. verse Ioannes 7. ecclesijs quae sunt in Asia and a little after Ego Ioannes frater vester c. and in the last chap. Ego Ioannes qui audiui vidi haec The epistle to the Hebrues hath no opprobrious and slanderous words in it neither doth the author thereof séeke to defame or deface any body as the authors of the Admonition do If my booke be comparable to eyther of the Admonitions in sharpe and vncharitable speaches proue it vnto me by comparing them togither and surely I will like the worse both of my boke and of my self and confesse that I haue offended Although I might excuse my selfe in saying that I haue done it in the defense of the truth and vendicating this Church of England from such vntollerable slanders as they burthen it with If any of the honorable house of Parliament did consent to the publishing of it in that manner and forme that it was published which I am sure they did not as you vndutifully and vntruly charge them I will not excuse them and yet they cannot be said to be either the authors or the publishers of it neither can their allowing of
eightenth chapter saith that equall power and function is giuen vnto all the ministers of of the Church and that from the beginning no one preferred himselfe to an other sauing only that for order some one did call them togither propound the matters that were to be consulted of and gathered the voyces c. Io. Whitgifte The wordes of the confession in the. 17. chapter be these truely Christe is present with his Churche and is a lyuing head who straightly forbad his Apostles and their successors to chalenge the primacie or supremacie in the Church This the confession speaketh of such primacie supremacie as the Byshop of Rome doth chalenge ouer the whole Church for in that place it onely speaketh of the Popes vsurped authoritie and not one worde of that superioritie among Ministers which is now in controuersie That which the confession affirmeth in the eightenth chapter maketh nothing against any superioritie allowed in this Churche of Englande for we acknowledge that there is one equall power and function of al Ministers but yet superioritie also to be among them for order sake and the same doth the Confession acknowledge in plaine and manifest woords euen in this place by you alledged whereby also that distinction is verifyed whiche you séeme so greatly to mislyke to witte that there is an equalitie of all Ministers of Gods worde quoad ministerium touching the ministerie but degrées and superioritie among them quoad ordinem politiam touching order and gouernment T. C. Musculus in his common places in the chapter of the offices of the ministers of the worde saith that in the Apostolike Church the ministers of the worde were none aboue another nor subiecte to any head or president and mislyketh the setting vp of any one in higher degree than another And further he saith vpon the seconde chapter of the seconde Epistle to the Thessalonians that the honor of a Bishop being taken from the rest of the ministers and giuē to one was the first step to the papacie howsoeuer in other places he speaketh otherwise Io. Whitgifte Musculus in those wordes of his common places speaketh of superioritie quoad officium potestatem touching office and power for these wordes dothe he vse he speaketh not of superioritie touching order and pollicie whiche is nowe in question The same power is in all ministers of the worde of bynding losing and administring the Sacraments but not of gouerning in the externall pollicie of the Church Moreouer Musculus in that place speaketh chiefly of the vsurped power of the Byshop of Rome and of that authoritie which his Byshoppes doe chaleng and clai e from him wherefore that place maye not be wrested against the lawfull iurisdictiō and superioritie that is nowe vsed in this Church of Englande Upon the seconde chapter of thée seconde Epistle to the Thessalonians he onely sheweth how the Pope came to such excessiue authoritie No man doubteth but that such things as were well instituted and vpon iust considerations may by proces of tyme abused but doth it therfore followe that they may not be restored to their right vse agayne A man might then much more strongly reason agaynst your equalitie which by sufficient tryall as by Ierome in sundrie places it maye appeare is proued to haue bene and to be the cause of schismes sectes contentions seditions tumultes murders confusion of Churches and common weales c. Nothing is so well instituted but it may be abused T. C. 3 That the election of Ministers perteyneth not to one man The foresayde Heluetian confession c. in the eightenth chapter sayth that the ministers ought to be chosen of the Churche or by those which are lawfully deputed of the Churche and afterwarde ordeyned with publike prayers Io. Whitgifte This maketh againste you for the confession alloweth that election of Ministers which is made by those that are appoynted to that office in the Churche for these be the wordes of the Confession but our Byshops are appointed to that office in this Church therefore the Confession alloweth Byshops to elect Ministers The wordes that followe that they should be ordeyned with publike prayers is obserued in our Church T. C. M. Caluine in his fourth booke of Institutions 3. chapter 15. section sheweth that the Church did choose and that the Apostles did moderate the election aud confuteth them whyche vpon the places of Titus and Timothie woulde proue that the election belongeth to one man Io. Whitgifte To this place of M. Caluine I haue sufficiently answered in the thirde treatise of election of Ministers chap. 7. the. 1. diuision T. C. 4 That there ought newe to be Elders to gouerne the Church wyth the Pastors and Deacons to prouide for the poore Touching Elders the iudgement of M. Caluine hath beene before declared in the fyrste of these propositions Io. Whitgifte And in the same place haue I answered that whych is there by you alledged out of M. Caluine T. C. M. Beza in his booke of Diuorces page 161. sayth that the Eldership of the Church ought to be where there is a Christian magistrate Io. Whitgifte M. Beza doth not say in that place that the Eldership of the Churche ought to be where there is a Christian Magistrate but that it may be and that it hath bene which he onely speaketh and proueth not And yet if he meane that Presbyterie whereof the Canons speake by him only in generalitie named then is it no other than we haue at this daye in this Church of Englande in Cathedrall Churches and Colleges for in the Canons presbyterium signifieth nothing else but a Colledge or company of Priestes and Ministers of the worde and Sacraments as I haue further declared in the. 17. Tract where I haue also shewed that M. Beza his opinion is that the gouernment of the Church maye admitte alteration according to the diuersities of times place and persons cap. vlt. T. C. Touching Deacons M. Caluine 4. booke 3. chapter 9. section after that he had discribed what Deacons the Churches had in the Apostles tymes saythe that we after their example ought to haue the lyke Io. Whitgifte M. Caluines words be these En quales habuerit diaconos Apostolica ecclesia quales ad eius exemplum habere nos conueniat Beholde what Deacons the Apostolicall churche had euen suche as it is conuenient we should haue according to that example Hee dothe not saye that we ought to haue them but that it is conuenient to haue th he doth not make them necessary but conuenient and he must be vnderstanded to ke of that Churche whereof he had experience not of this Churche wherein he was 〈◊〉 a straunger Of Deacons and that their office was not only to prouide for the poore but to preache also and to baptise I haue proued Tract 19. Tract 14. T. C. M. Beza in the. 5. chap. and. 23. section of his Confessiōs sheweth that the office of the distribution of the goodes of the
it be vpon occasion of sicknesse c as I haue before declared he woulde haue all or the moste parte that be present to communicate and who defendeth the contrarie and yet if they will not the rest may not be secluded his whole drift is to reproue such as will not communicate and not to prohibite the distribution of the Supper to those that be willing be they moe or be they fewer so that there be a competent number that it may be a Communion T. C. M. Beza against VVestphalus sheweth that it is not decent that baptisme be ministred but in the Church and that at standing houres and by the ministers and further that vpō no necessitie as it is called it ought to be ministred in priuate houses And that if it might be ministred in priuate houses yet not otherwise than by Ministers Io. Whitgifte You vntruely report M. Beza his wordes he onely sheweth in that place what the order of the Church is where he remaineth he doth not prescribe any certaine rule for all Churches neyther is it méete that he shoulde in such cases He so speaketh of baptizing in priuate houses that he doth not simplie condemne it But what soeuer his iudgement is in that poynt his mynd is not I am sure to bynde all other Churches to the same which thinke and teach as soundly of this Sacrament as he doth or can do though they agrée not with him in all circumstances T. C. M. Caluin in his Institutions 4. booke chapter 15. sect 20. 21. proueth that baptisme ought not to be ministred by priuate men or by any women Io. Whitgifte Only ministers of the Church are y e ordinarie ministers of baptisme neither may any other chalenge that function vnto thēselues ordinarily but yet if vpon occasion a priuate person do baptise the baptisme is good and lawfull euen as the circumcision was true circumcision that was ministred by Sephora As I haue proued Tract 9. cap. 5. T. C. ◠The iudgement of those late writers touching ceremonies and apparell whose secrete Epistles M. Doctor alledgeth appeareth by these places following cited out of their works printed and published by themselues Wherof also some are alledged by the answerer to the examiner where are diuers other places to this purpose wherevnto I referre the Reader M. Bucer vpon the. 18. of Mathewe saith that they say nothing which do alwayes obiect that greater things must be vrged than the reformation of ceremonies thereby defending the reliques of Antichrist for as much as ceremonies are testimonies of Religion And that as there is no agreement betweene Christe and Belial so those whiche are sincere Christians can abide nothing of Antichrist Io. Whitgifte M. Bucer sayth truely for the reformation of ceremonies is to be sought and not to be neglected neyther can sincere Christians abyde any thing of Antichriste as it is Antichristes but what is all this to the purpose is there no reformation of ceremonies in this Church of Englande from the whiche all Antichristian ceremonies are abandoned and those that remaine purged from al opinion of Antichristianitie And that M. Bucer ment nothing lesse than the ceremonies nowe reteined in this Church of Englande as we vse them it maye euidently appeare by that whiche I haue alledged out of him Tract 7. cap. 5. the. 5. diuision and chap. 7. diuision 4. T. C. Peter Martyr vpon the. 10. chap. of the second boke of the Kings saith that the Lutherans must take heede least whilest they cutte off many Popishe errors they followe Iehu by reteining also many Popish things For they defende still the reall presence in the bread of the Supper and Images and Vestiments c. and saith that religion must be wholly reformed to the quick Io. Whitgifte M. Martyr nameth the Popishe things which the Lutherans obserue to be the reall presence images all the Popish apparell which they vsed in their Masse for so doth he meane which this Church hath refused What his opinion is of this apparell that we reteine I haue declared tract 7. chap. 5. the. 4. diuision where he of purpose speaketh concerning the same God be thanked Religion is wholly reformed euen to the quicke in this Churche T. C. Bullinger in his Decades 5. Booke and ninth Sermon saythe that our Sauiour Christe and the Apostles vsed their accustomed apparell in the Supper and that although in tymes paste the Ministers put on a kynde of cloake vpon their common apparell yet that was done neyther by the example of Chryste nor of his Apostles but by the tradition of man and that in the ende after the example of the Priestes apparell in the olde lawe it was caste vpon the Ministers at the ministration of the Supper But sayth hee we haue learned long agoe not onely that all Leuiticall ceremonies are abrogated but also that they ought to be brought agayne into the Churche of no man And therfore seeing we are in the light of the Gospell and not vnder the shadowe of the lawe we do worthily reiecte that Massing Leuiticall apparell Io. Whitgifte Neyther do we reteine the massing Leuiticall apparell but that apparell onely which Bullinger himselfe alloweth of in diuers Epistles written of purpose touching these matters as I haue expressed Tract 7. Chapter 5. the. 6. Diuision c. T. C. Gualter vpon the. 21. of the Actes among others bringeth this for one reason to improue Paules shauing of his head for that the Gospel had beene preached twentie yeares and that therefore the infirmitie of the Iewes ought not to haue bene borne with And after he saith that that teacheth howe muche the superstitious Maisters of ceremonies hurte the Gospell which nourishe the weaknesse of fayth by the long keping of ceremonies and by their long bearing hinder the doings of those ministers which are more feruent Io. Whitgifte M. Gualter in these wordes sayth nothing against any poynt of this Churche he speaketh truely and nothing to your purpose M. Gualter hath sufficiently shewed his opinion in these matters not onely in written Epistles but in printed bookes as in his Epistle before his commentaries vpō the first to the Corinthians Surely there is no suche weight in these authorities for your purpose that you can take any great aduauntage of them indéede your cause in my opinion hath won small credite by alledging of them ¶ Imprinted at London by Henry Bynneman for Humfrey Toy dvvelling in Paules Churchyard at the signe of the Helmet ANNO. 1574.
the ministerie are to be admitted and ordeined I knowe not howe you could answere it for the wordes of the Canon admit that sense most properly That decrée of Vrban hath the same meaning and that which followeth of remayning continually in that Church in the which he is intituled doth but signifie that he must be assured of his lyuing whervnto he is intituled during his life for the same Canon doth permit one man to haue two Churches but yet that he ought not to be canonicus prebendarius but onely of one Church wherof he is intituled But I can not but marueile that you will vse the testimonie of this Councell of Pope Vrban which was holden at the least an 1090. after Christ euen in the most corrupte time when as Antichrist had fully possessed the sea of Rome in the which Councell among other things (a) Volater ▪ Bale he confirmed the actes of Pope Hildebrand against Henrie the Emperour This Vrban also was the confirmer of the superstitious orders of the (b) Platina in vita Vrb. 2. Cistercian friers and (c) Volateran Cent. II. ca. 10. Carthusian Monkes he likewise deposed (d) Distinct. 32 eos qui. Deacons that were maried from their orders And (e) Matth. p risi in vita VVilli 2. forbad by the Councell of the traiterous Archbishop Anselme that any Clearke should receiue beneficiorum inuestituram or any Ecclesiasticall dignitie of any Prince or lay man but (f) Cent. 4. onely of the Pope And that you may yet further vnderstand what a worthie patrone you haue gotten for your cause this Vrban was he that was author (g) P lid de inuent lib. 6. cap. 2. of the Canonicall houres commonly called our Ladies Psalter Certainly Hierome sayth no suche thing in that Epistle you are disposed to father that of him that he neuer spake ▪ His complaint was that much cost was bestowed vpon Churches in adorning and decking of them and little regarde to the choise of Ministers meaning that they had more care to haue gorgious Churches than good Ministers But what is this to your purpose Thus haue you proued neither by Scripture nor by Councell nor Doctor truely alleaged and vnderstanded that none maye preache vnlesse he haue some pastorall charge and I still affirme that you haue not one texte of Scripture soundyng that way where there are to the contrarie sundry examples as I haue alleaged Chap. 1. the. 9. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 77. Sect. 2. If you had vsed moe reasons I would haue answered them what certaine cure had Paule Barnabas Philip Epaphroditus Andronicus Iunius yet they were not of the twelue Apostles It is a straunge doctrine to teache that a man may not preache out of his owne cure It is more straunge to say that it is not lawfull for him to preache except he haue some pastorall cure beyng of him selfe able to liue and not minding to be burdensome to the Churche If you seeke for any text in the scripture to confirme this doctrine you can finde none if you seke for examples to the contrarie you shall finde plentie T. C. Pag. 44. Sect. 2. 3. 4. But you aske what place Paule and Barnabas had appoynted them What meane you therby to conclude that bycause Paule and Barnabas the Apostles had no place appoynted them therfore a Pastor or Bishop shoulde not when this is one difference betwene the Apostle and Byshop that the one hath no certaine place appoynted and the other hath But I thinke I smell out your meaning which is that we may make Apostles also at these dayes and that that function is not yet ceased for otherwise your reason is nothyng worthe Likewyse also you aske of Philip which was an Euangelist And so you thinke that these running Ministers are lawfull bycause they are Apostles and Euangelistes against which I shall haue occasion to speake shortly after in the. 50. Page But if a manne be able to liue of hym selfe and mynde not to be burdensome to the Churche it seemeth vnreasonable vnto you that he may not goe aboute and preache throughout all Churches Dyd you neuer reade any learned disputation and that of learned writers in our dayes aboute P. Marty vpon the 1. Cor. 9. thinketh it more expedient for one to take vvages of the Church although he be able to liue of him selfe this question whether although it be lawfull it be expedient that a man beyng able and willing to liue of him selfe ought to take wages of the Churche for inconueniences which mighte ensue of taking nothing I doe but aske you the question bycause you make so greate a wonder at thys for I will not take vpon me heere the defense of it bycause I will not multiple questions And why I praye you maye not that manne that is so able and will be content to liue of him selfe why I saye may not he teache and be the Pastor of some Churche Doe you thinke that for hys forbearing the wages of the Churche he may breake the (a) What lawes orders where are they establi shed lawes orders that God hath established Io. Whitgifte It is a good reason to proue that there may be preachers of the worde which haue no certaine cure and doth cleane ouerthrowe your former answere to the place Acto 1. for Paule and Barnabas were not chosen into any vacant place as Matthias was and therfore that reason is no reason I doe not say a Bishop or Pastor should not haue a place appointed vnto them for I know Bishops and Pastors haue their cures limited but this I saye that some may be preachers and Ministers of the worde which haue no certaine cure Neyther is this true that all suche as be admitted to the preaching of the word be either Bishops or Pastors Against Apostles and Euangelistes we shall vnderstande what you haue to saye when we come to that place You aske me whether I euer read any learned disputations c. I mighte aske you the same question for you vtter no great reading here only you alleage Peter Martyr vpon 1. Cor. 9. where he speaketh little of this matter For the question is not whether a man hauing a Pastorall cure and sufficient of his owne to lyue may cease to take th ordinarie stipend of his Church or no which is that that Peter Martyr handleth in that place and wherof he maketh this resolution that he should doe that therein that maye most profitte the Church and further the Gospell and yet to be most expedient to take the accustomed stipend although S. Ambrose Lib. 1. off cap. 36. and diuerse other be of the contrarie iudgement But this is our controuersie whether a man hauing sufficient to lyue of by him selfe may not be admitted to the preaching of the Gospell excepte he haue some Pastorall cure S. Paule in that Chapter gloryeth that he tooke nothing of the Corinthians Peter Martyr in the same place
haue the giftes needful either for the gouernment of the church either else for the ministring of the worde and sacraments therefore these functions only are sufficient for the church For it is a superfluous thing to make more offices than ther be gifts to furnish them for so they that should haue them should rather be Idols than officers And therefore for asmuch as there is no gift which falleth not into some of these nnctions it is altogither a vaine and vnprositable thing to bring more offices and functions into the Church besides these Io. Whitgifte You saye there is no function but hath giftes apt and fitte to discharge it annexed and giuen In what sense euery function is sayde to haue giftes to discharge it vnto it If you meane that there is no function but there is giftes méete for it which God hath in his power to bestowe it is most true But if your meaning be that the giftes be so annexed to the function that of necessitie whosoeuer is called to that function muste also haue those giftes it is moste vntrue For experience dothe teache that euery man hath not giftes according to his function althoughe he bée lawfully there vnto called touching his externall calling for the in warde calling none knoweth but God himselfe and a mans owne conscience But you put mée in remembraunce of that whiche maister Bullinger writeth of the Anabaptistes lib. 5. cap. 1. wher he confuting the reason they vse to proue that Christians ought not to haue magistrates bicause Christians be so perfect of themselues that they can gouerne themselues and therfore néede not to be subiect to any other superiour authoritie saith thus Solent autem Anabaptistae libenter ea imaginari animo suo fingere quae nunquà m Bullinger lib. 5. aduersus anab cap. 1. fueru t neque extant aut posthaec futura sunt The Anabaptistes willingly vse to imagine and conceyue those things in their myndes whiche neuer hath bene nor are nor hereafter shall bee Euen so I say vnto you that in imagining the giftes perteyning to euery function so to be 〈◊〉 vnto the function that he whiche hath the one must of necessitie haue the other you phansie that whiche neuer was is or shall be and in so reasoning what do you else than vse that argument against superioritie in the Ecclesiasticall estate which the Anabaptists vse both against Ecclesiasticall Ciuill magistrates But I answere you as M. Bullinger answered them Excepte you were blinded with pertinacie you might easily see in your selfe iuste cause why there shoulde bee magistrates Idem and Superiours Moreouer God dothe not tie his giftes to any certayne and definite number of names or titles of offices but bestoweth them as it pleaseth him to the commoditie of his Church vpon such as be méete to vse them by what name or title soeuer they be called Wherefore this assertion of yours is eyther vnaduisedly auouched or else doth it conteyne some secrete poyson not yet vttered This being sayde to the ground that you haue layde thus I answere to your argument The deformed argument of T. C. it is in no mode and in déede to bad for any boye to vse in his Sophismes It is in forme the same with this Those things onely are sufficient for saluation which are conteyned in the Scriptures but al those things in the Aue Maria are conteyned in the Scriptures therefore those things only which are in the Aue Maria are sufficient to saluation Or this those onely are men which are indued with reason but all the Cosrardmongers in London are indued with reason therefore the Costard-mongers of London onely are men Besides this the Maior is particular which 〈◊〉 agaynst all forme of Syllogisme in the first or second figure to be shorte in your Maior you haue this woorde onely in your Medium and in the Minor is left out And therefore your conclusion followeth not except you had sayd in your Minor that only these functions reckened of S. Paule to the Ephesians c. haue all giftes needefull for the ministring of the woorde and sacraments and for the gouernment of the Church And yet if it were so your argument should be of no force being ex solis particularibus So that in your Syllogisme there is no manner of forme and therefore not woorthie of any other answere vntill it be better framed Although I could say vnto you that all those functions haue giftes necessary for them but not only those functions bycause there be other not mencioned of you which haue giftes necessary also and which the Apostle rehearseth 1. Corinth 12. So lykewise could I answere that moste of those functions according to your owne opinion be not perpetuall but for a time and therfore your reason is no good reason Likewise that the Apostle hath not made in eyther of these places any perfect diuision of offices which were euen at that time in the Churche For in the first to the Corinthians the. 12. chap. he leaueth out Euangelistes Pastors Byshops Deacons widdowes and in the fourth to the Ephesians Deacons widdowes workers of miracles c. So that he hath not lefte any perpetuall paterne of offices or names in eyther of those twoo places To conclude I could tell you that God hath lefte to his Church authoritie to appoynt both names and offices as shall be for the same most conuenient and profitable the which authoritie the Church hath also from the beginning vsed as in appoynting Catechistes Lectors and such lyke not superfluons but moste necessarie offices and profitable for the Churche in those times wherein they were Chap. 1. the. 31. Diuision T. C. Pag 66. Sect. 2. And so it may be thus reasoned If men may make and crect new ministeries they must eyther giue giftes for to dischardge them or assure men that they shall haue giftes of God whereby they may be able to answere them But they can neyther giue giftes nor assure men of any giftes necessary to discharge those functions therefore they may make or erect no new ministeries Io. Whitgifte First there is no new ministery erected But among the ministers some are appoynted to gouerne the rest and to haue the chiefe direction of them and such are chosen to that superioritie vpon whom God as farre as man can iudge hath bestowed giftes méete for the same Secondly it is not necessary that those that appoynt any office should be able to giue gyftes incident there vnto For then no man might appoynt any office It is therefore sufficient if he appoynt such Persons as God hath indued with giftes méete for such an office and such offices as there may be persones méete to execute which being obserued your argument is soone answered Chap. 1. the. 32. Diuision T. C. Pag. 66. Sect. 3. Last of all to conclude agaynst these made and diuised ministeries of Archbyshops and Archbeacons after this sorte (a) The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if men may
which condemned Priuatus Nowe if there were 90. Bishops in one prouince met and yet not all that were in that prouince as may appeare out of the same Epistle all men doe vnderstande that the scope that Cyprians Bishop or Archbishop as you will haue him had was no suche thing as a Dioces or a prouince I could bring infinite testimonies out of Cyprian to proue that the Bishop in his time was nothing else but S. Paules Bishop that is one that had cure and charge of one flocke whiche was so placed as it might be taught of him and ouerseene by him and gouerned by him and of whome in matters perteyning to God it mighte depende Io. Whitgifte Your proofes goe very lowe when you vse suche slender ones the words of Cyprian in that Epistle be these Quod ipsum videmus de diuina authoritate descendere vt 1. Lib. Epi. 4. sacerdos plebe praesente sub omnium oculis delegatur c. The whiche thing we see to discende from the authoritie of God that the Priest be chosen the people beeing present before them all c. What can you else gather of this but that a Priest must be chosen in presence of the people and that then he is sayde to be chosen sub omnium oculis before al their eyes when he is chosen publikely and openly in the sighte of many But what is this to the strayghtning of his charge A man mighte as well reason thus Al the Citizens of Rome were not at Cornelius election therefore he is not Bishop of all the Citie of Rome But to the ende that you maye vnderstande the vanitie of this your assertion and that it may appeare that Cyprian maketh the Bishop in degree to be aboue a Priest also that at the election of the Bishop of Rome moe were present than those of the Citie I will set downe his wordes as they be Lib. 4. Epist. 2. Cypr. lib. 4. Epist. 2. I come nowe vnto the person of our fellowe Cornelius that you may more truely knowe him as well as we not by the lyes of malicious men and backbyters but by the iudgement of God whiche made him Bishop and by the testimonie of his fellow Bishops the whole All the Bishops agreed to Cornelius his election number whereof through all the worlde dyd ioyntly agree For whiche thing did greatly commende our welbeloued Cornelius vnto God and to Christ and his Churche and also to all his fellowe ministers he did not sodenly come to the Bishopricke but beeing promoted by all the ecclesiasticall offyces he ascended to the high dignitie of Priesthoode A Bishop aboue a priest in Cyprians time by all degrees of religion Then afterwarde he neyther desired nor would haue the Bishopricke it selfe neyther as others vse whiche are puffed vp with pride and arrogancie dyd he inuade the See by force but beeing quiet and modest and suche a one as they vse to be whiche are chosen vnto this place by God for the moderation of his chaste conscience and the humblenesse of his naturall and preserued shame fastnesse He dyd not as some men doe vse violence that he might be made Bishop but suffered violence that he mighte by Cornelius chosen by others than y e Romanes compulsion be driuen to receyue the Bishopricke And he was made Bishop of many of our fellowe Bishops whiche were then at Rome and whiche sente very honorable and commendable letters vnto vs of his ordination But Cornelius was made Bishop by the iudgement of God and his Christ by the testimonie almoste of all Clearks by the suffrages of the people whiche was then present and by the Colledge of the auncient Priestes and of good men In these wordes first it is to be noted that he sayth Cornelius was made Bishop Collections out of Cyprian by the testimonie of his fellowe Bishops Quorum numerus vniuersus per totum mundum concordi vnanimitate consensit The whole number whereof through all the worlde did ioyntly agree ▪ Secondly that he was promoted to the highe dignitie of Priesthoode per omnia ecclesiastica officia cunctis religionis gradibus Through all ecclesiasticall offyces ▪ and by all degrees of religion and then afterwarde was made Bishop Thirdly that Cornelius was made Bishop by the iudgement of God and Christ by the testimonie almoste of all Clearkes and by the suffrages of the people whiche was then present and by the Colledge of auncient Priests and good men Howe farre these thinges differ from your collections and howe farre from Cyprians meaning you gather your coniectures let the Reader iudge I haue before sufficiently proued by auncient testimonies that the Bishop of Rome Carthage and other had not one Citie onely to gouerne or one parishe but diuers places whole Prouinces and Countreys as Cyprians owne wordes before rehearsed maketh manifest Wherefore all this you doe but speake of pleasure If you had tolde me in what place Cyprian sayth that out of one Prouince there was 90. Bishops that condemned Priuatus I woulde haue sayde something to it but séeing you haue kepte the place secrete to your selfe you giue your Reader occasion to suspecte eyther that it is forged or else not faythfully alleadged If it be that whiche is lib. 1. epist. 3. then truely antiquum obtines For these be Cyprians words Per Foelicianū Cypr. lib. 1. Epist. 3. autem significaui tibi frater venisse Carthaginem Priuatum veterem baereticum in Pambesitana colonia ante multos ferè annos ob multa grauia delicta 90. episcopora sententiā condemnatū antecessorū etiā nostrorū quod vestrā conscientiam nōlatet Fabiani Donati literis seuerissimè notatum c I haue signified vnto you by Felicianus that Priuatus an olde heretike is come to Carthage beeing condemned in the Citie Pambesia many yeres since for many and greeuous trespasses by the sentence of 90. Bishops and beeing also moste sharply reprehended by the letters of my predecessours Fabianus and Donatus as your conscience knoweth Héere is not one worde of so many Bishops béeing in one Prouince neyther yet any Prouince or Diocesse mentioned wherin they should be Surely this is too much so often to offend in falsifying but be it there were so many Bishops in one prouince what conclude you therof that Bishops then had but one towne or parishe limited vnto them As though there be not Prouinces of that largenesse that they may conteyne so many Bishops yet the seuerall parishes furnished with peculiar pastors Massaeus lib. 16. sayth that there are 160. Bishoprickes subiecte to the Patriarche of Antioche But there can no such thing as you affirme be gathered of Cyprians words neyther shal you euer be able to proue out of Cyprian or any other auncient writer that such Bishops as Cyprian Cornelius were had onely gouernment of one towne or as we call it parishe but the contrarie is most euident as I haue before
declared Chap. 3. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Pag. 76. Sect. 1. Furthermore to shape the Archbishop by these places of Cyprian you muste be driuen to expounde this worde Churche Prouince The Papistes whiche cite this place for the Pope as you doe for the Archbishop they expounde the worde Churche heere to be the whole Church vniuersall and Catholike And in deede although it be falsly expounded so in this place yet maye they doe it with more probabilitie and likelyhoode than to expounde it a Prouince for so much as these wordes the Churche is oftener read bothe in the Scripture and olde writers to signifie the whole Churche than any prouince of one Realme but let Cyprian expounde him selfe what he meaneth by a Churche heere although that may easily appeare by that whiche is spoken of S. Cyprian his Bishop wheras Cyprian declareth that Cornelius the Bishop of the Church which was in Rome would not let Felicissimum a Nouatian heretike beeing caste out by the Bishops of Affrike to enter into the Churche he declareth sufficiently that he meaneth that company of the faythfull whiche were gathered togither at Rome to heare the worde and to communicate at the sacraments (*) A cauill ▪ For it was not Cornelius parte to shut him out of the Prouince neyther in deede coulde he himselfe beeing not able without hazarde by reason of the persecution that then was to tarie in any part of the prouince Agayn speaking agaynst y e Nouatian heretike he sheweth that throughe his wicked opinion of denying of repentance to those that were fallen the confession of faultes in the Churche was hindred Nowe it is manyfest that confession was not made throughout the prouince but in that particular Churche where the party dwelte that committed the faulte Therefore Cyprian vnderstandeth by the name of the Churche neyther Dioces as we call Dioces and muche lesse a whole prouince And in the same Epistle speaking of those whiche had fallen he sayth that they durst not come so muche as to the thresholde or entry of the Church where he also opposeth the Churche to the Prouince saying that they roue about the Prouince and runne about to deceyue the brethren Io. Whitgifte I expounde this worde Churche in this place no otherwise than al learned writers expounde it that is for that prouince diocesse whereof Cornelius was Bishop and it is no vnaccustomed thing to cal the Church which is extended through a prouince by the name of the chiefe Citie or Metropolitane seate of the Prouince as the Churche of Rome all that that is subiecte to the Bishop of Rome the Churche of Carthage all that that is belonging to the Bishop of Carthage And this is truely to expound the places of Cyprian and may be iustified both by examples authorities as I haue proued before wheras your interpretatiō hath no shadow or shew of truth But you had rather iustifie the Papists interpretation than séeme to relent to the The zeale of the Replier authoritie of an Archbishop Suche is your zeale Cyprians wordes touching Cornelius dealing with Felicissimus the Nouatian be these Likewise that thou mightest knowe of Felicissimus the author of the sedition Lib. 1. Epist. 3. who also is conteyned in the letters of our fellowe Bishops written of late vnto them whiche Felicissimus is not onely driuen from hence by them Sed abs te illic nuper de ecclesia nullus est but is there of late expelled by thee out of the Churche Of these wordes you gather this argument Cyprian signifieth that Cornelius had banished Felicissimus from the Churche of Rome Ergo Cornelius was Bishop but of one Parishe or Citie or therefore a Churche in that place signifieth one onely particular congregation gathered togither in one Towne What kinde of coniectures call you these And what thoughe Cornelius coulde not shut him out of the Prouince mighte he not therefore by excommunication seclude him from the congregation of the faythfull throughout the Prouince Doe you thinke that he forceably shutte him out of the locall Churche of Rome or rather dealte with him according to the ecclesiasticall Censures You maye delude simple readers that beléeue whatsoeuer you saye but suche as be able to examine your doings can not if they wyll searche but finde passing forgerie Agayne you saye speaking agaynst the Nouatian heretikes c. Cyprians wordes touching that matter be these Quibus etiam non satis fuit ab Euangelio recessisse spem lapsis Ibidem satisfactionis poenitentiae sustulisse fraudibus inuolutos vel adulterijs commaculatos sacrificiorum funesta contagione pollutos ne Deum rogarent ne in ecclesia exomologesiu criminum facerent The Nouatian heresie ab omni sensu fructu remouisse To whome it was not inoughe to haue departed from the Gospell to haue taken awaye hope and satisfaction and repentance from those that haue fallen to haue remoued from all feeling and fruite of repentance those that are taken in snares or defiled with adulteries or polluted with the deadly contagion of sacrifices that they should not pray to God nor make confession of their sinnes in the congregation What dothe Cyprian else meane by these wordes but that Nouatus denyed repentance to suche as were fallen and woulde not receyue them agayns into the Churche that is not this or that parishe but the Churche of Christ the congregation of the faythfull for that was Nouatus herefie negare veniam lapsis to denie forgiuenesse to those that fell And therefore also he denied vnto them the fruites of repentance as confession of their offences in the congregation of the faythfull c. For Nouatus opinion was not that suche shoulde onely be secluded from this or that congregation but generally from the Churche of Christe and hope of saluation And therfore in that place of Cyprian is ment that Churche extra quam non est salus without the which there is no saluation And to what purpose doe you procéede and go on forward saying That in the same Epistle speaking of those that had fallen c. What proueth it but that those heretikes had caste them into suche a dispayre of forgiuenesse that they durste not offer them selues to be receyued into the Churche that is to repentance And that the same Heretikes béeing them selues excommunicated wandred vp and downe sowing the pestilent séede of their doctrine This is to oppose Heretikes and Schismatikes whiche runne vp and downe in corners to the true members of the Churche But it is not to oppose the Churche to the Prouince For the Prouince if it be Chrystened is the Churche althoughe it conteyne in it seuerall congregations whiche be also Churches and yet béeing members of it are subiecte to one Bishop and so dothe the whole Epistle of Cyprian declare neyther can there anything be gathered out of it to the contrarie for a testimonie wherof I call to witnesse these your weake collections which you would