place whereunto you direct vs hath no such saying Thus it hath In my iudgement this woord Eucharistia in this place of Irenaeus signifieth not the sacrament alreadye consecrate but rather other common breade After this he alledgeth thrée sundrie aucthorities that it maye be so taken and in fine hée sayth how be it herein I will not striue Other wordes then these Maister Iuell hath none and is this to say Eucharistia is not the sacrament Hath he any such absolute saying Or doth he affirme any whit at all O that the Replie had bene of M. Hardings penning he would then sure haue good matter against it Now it is the bishops own doing he can say little and not corrupt his woordes But marke Christian Reader in this shooting what ill fauoured feathers he hath vpon hys arrowes The vpmost is corruption of M. Iuels woordes the 2. that lye vpon the bow the one is deceite the other ignorāce The corruption is already manifest the deceite is where he would haue thée to thinke that Eucharistia might not signifie bread but where euer it were found it shoulde make for hys transubstantiation The ignorance is in that he maketh it so straunge a thing that Eucharistia might signifie breade not yet consecrate When in his popish Masse before consecration the bread and wyne are called sancta illibata sacrificia holye and immaculate sacrifices Concerning the word Eucharistia it is found in the new testament often times yet alway signifying either open thanks giuing or else thankfulnes of the minde so in that the sacrament is called Eucharistia it is a good argument against transubstanciation An other marke that Maister Harding could not shoote at is concerning the prophesie of Malachie that it shoulde signifie the sacrifice of our Cōmunion Of this mark reade the vntruth An other make is this that in the sacramēt of the aultare ther is no vertue but when it is vsed This marke saith he was out of my reach But if he say true he is then but a bragger eyther he hath not read so much as he pretendeth or else he is a loytering truant 〈◊〉 that hath forgot so good a lesson In this one thing he offendeth both waies the godly in that he wil not shoote at that marke which the holy Ghost hath set vp the vngodly and men of his owne deuotion in that he denyeth any vertue to be in the water of baptisme but when one is christined For if it be so why sing they ouer that water where none is christined sis fons viuus aqua regenerans vnda purificans c. be thou a liuing spring a water of new birth a water that doth purifie c. Maister Harding cannot deny how merily this hath bene song in Colledges yet none haue bene christined I trow among them And a Doctor of their own side saith si Asinus bibit aquam illam bibit sacramentum if an Asse drinke that water hee drinketh the sacrament Whereby it appeareth they repose vertue in the water though none be baptised Yet in this opinion they agrée not Scotus sayth it is Asinina quaestio a question méete for an Asse But of the water he sayth it is cold running cleare necessarie and common cold to represse concupiscence running to turne the course of our disobedience cleare to lighten our fayth necessarye to bring vs into the way of health common to all men And in commendation of this iudgement it is written in the margine doctrina singularissima a most singular doctrine fit lattin for suche a purpose to attribute such vertue to the water But M. Harding will say these vertues are in the water as Scotus speaketh in ipso fieri but euen while the childe is a baptising And of that opinion Thomas Aquinas séemeth to be wher he saith such prayers as are sayde ouer the water are not necessarye but onely for the solemnitie But here we may ill beleue eyther Thomas or Scotus for Pope Celestine saith otherwise Siue paruuli siue iuuenes whether they be Infants or whether they be yong men let them not come to the sacrament of regeneration which is the wel of life before the vncleane spirite be driuen away exorcismis exsufflationibus Clericorum wyth the cuniurings and the blowings of the Priests And of this opinion is the Maister of the Sentences Whereby it appeareth howe little Maister Hardinges Doctours are manye tymes beholding to hym that will so flatlye denye their opinions For if these thinges be necessary before the christeninge then hath the water vertue in it selfe at other times then the very tyme of christening But thus muche he said rather against his Doctours then against him self for his wordes seme in this place to confesse a truth There is no manner vertue in the water but onely in the vse of it But where he saith it is not so in the sacrament of the aultare but that there is vertue in it though it be not receiued that offendeth the godly and varieth quite from the worde of God and robbeth vs of our great comfort that we haue in Gods mysteries For S. Paul saith Panis quem frangimus the bread which we breake is it not the communion of Christes body For we being many are one bread and one body bicause we be pertakers of one bread By this opiniō we might be thus perswaded if vertue be in the sacramēt when it is not receiued then we may be incorporate into Christes body though we receiue it not contrary to S. Paules doctrine that saith to be of this vnity we must be pertakers of one bread And here I woulde faine aske Maister Hardyng this question if by these wordes hoc est corpus meum the breade is become no breade and a newe grace is put into it whether it be receiued or no I demaunde what if the bread be kept till it be consumed concerning the flesh He aunswereth the Lorde departeth againe when he is prophaned or when he is denyed What then is done with the grace Doth it likewise returne How is it then true that the prophet wryteth verbum meum non reuertetur ad me vacuum my word shal not return vnto me in vaine But how doth it not return in vain when being imploied vpō a dead creature It returneth vnto him again w tout farther quickning his liuely image which is mā or hardening the hart y t is already obdurate to Gods further glory Againe be it thus that a lofe once consecrated be set before a stranger who feedeth on it as vpon common breade if ther be vertue in it he discerneth not the Lords body so shoulde he receiue his own damnation How could it be then true that our sauiour saith that which goeth into the mouth defileth not the man or that which S. Paule saith al things are cleane to them that are clean nothing is to be refused that is receiued with thanks giuing And in an
manye suche hobbers now adayes God giue vs grace to beware by your example and to take héede of such cold play Hardyng ¶ As for your respectes to saye truely I neuer knew what they were At the gaming of your Gospell you shote to strike downe the true and reall body of Christ onâ— of the blessed sacrament of the aulter with certaine phrases of spech with telling the people of your tropes and figures with comparing the Eucharist to the baptisme with making the preseÌ„ce of Christ like in both You bend your force to strike away the eternall and singuler sacrifice of the church with such a sort and forme as I hetherto neuer vsed and yet thinke to be very straunge as for example with teaching as you do that missa signifieth not the masse but your CoÌ„munioÌ„ that Eucharistia is to be taken not for the sacrament consecrate but for common bread wherewith one Bishop did present another That Melchisedech and Malachias signified the sacrifice of your coÌ„munion wherat the people lift vp their handes and hartes as you say vnto heauen praieth and sacrificeth togither reioysing in the Lorde That in the sacrament of the aultar ther is no vertue nor grace but when it is vsed no more then in water after that one is baptised That ther is no difference betwixt the priest and the people in the holy ministerie of the sacrifice and that lay folke meÌ„ and women do make the sacrifice and be priestes after the order of Melchisedech that God is the author of euill and driueth men to sin Many other such sortes and formes of shooting you and your companions vse at this daye with which I was neuer acquainted as nether any man liuing can burthen me and God is witnesse which to me is a sufficient discharge Wherfore you do me the greater wrong in that you say I taught your Cospell euen in like sorte and forme and in all respectes as it is taught nowe Dering But you procéede at your rouers and tel an vncertaine tale of the respectes of your preachinges You saye you neuer preached against transubstanciation These are vaine repetitions to fill vp your paper How coulde you preach against such filthynesse of the Sea of Rome that were alwaies hobbing and neuer preached out Christ in the simplicitye of his Gospell I am easily perswaded that you neuer did it seing whervnto you are againe returned But whether you did it or no one day it shalbe reuealed All these pointes here alledged are fully discussed in Maister Iuells Replye And good reader leaue of hobbers instruction with the formest shootâ— at the very marke which is Iesus Christ and thou shalt soone perceiue what is his truth Now for thy better instruction I will speake of those markes which are laid out as breâ—fly as I can First this transubstanciation was first mentioned in the councell of Laterane .1215 yeare after Christ. And corpus Christi daye instituted in Vrbanus tyme more then .40 yeares after that So thou séest the antiquity is but of late yeares it hath no warrant in scriptures as their owne doctors Fisher Biell and Scotus doo witnesse How it disagreeth both from scriptures and Doctours M. Iuels Reply hath aboundantlye taught thée Yet for thy better furtherance I will laye before thee for thyne instruction certaine of those places which ouerturne this fonde Doctrine Thou must first consider that this sacrament and Baptisme are the two sacraments that Christ hath left vnto his church which two were prefigured in the olde lawe baptisme in circumcision especially and the Eucharist in the pascall Lambe Now for the true vnderstanding of these Sacramentes thou must remember that the Scripture vseth in them suche a phrase of speakinge that the thynge signified is giuen vnto the signe So of Circumcision whych God had commaunded Abraham the scripture expressely saith this is my couenant yet was it the signe of his couenaunt Of the pascall Lambe it is saide this is the Lordes passeouer yet was it but a token of the passage of the Angell Likewyse of the rock Paul speaketh The rocke was Christ which was yet but a figure of Christ and the sacrifices are saide to be the purifiynges yet were they but a token of ther sanctification And as this was spoken thus in the figure so it is now in the truth S. Paule calleth baptisme lauacrum regenerationis the washinge of the new birth yet it is but a signe of the inward renewynge of the holye Ghost In like sorte it is written baptizare c. he baptised and washed away thy sinnes Yet baptisme was but a token that his sinnes were washt away So Peter baptismus nos quoque saluos reddit yet it is but the seale of our saluation The holy Ghost must come vpon them before they receiue grace In like maner it is saide of the other parte of this Sacrament This cuppe yet the holye Ghost meaneth the wine It is sayd further this cup is the new Testament yet the wyne is not the same but a token of it The newe testameÌ„t is that God is our God and we are his people that he hath forgiuen our iniquity and that he will remember our sinnes no more But wo be vnto that man that shall looke onelye to be saued by that which is in the Priestes Chalice What madnesse is it then séeing this maner of speaking is so vsuall to the Sacraments to choose onely this sentence of our Sauiour Christ this is my body which thou wilt receiue with out figure when neither the scripture it selfe doth alowe it nor the phrase of the spirite of God so often vttered vnto vs doth inforce it I neede not here to recite the playne sayinges themselues which literally layed togither can not stand this is my body saith Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which now giuen for you yet Christes body was not then betrayed So saint Peter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is broken for you yet was not his body then crucified whereby they are inforced yea euen in the same sentence to forsake the letter And for the better assuraunce that we may doe this vpon a good warrant we haue the exposition of our sauiour Chirst it is the spirite that quickneth the flesh profiteth nothing The words that I speake vnto you are spirite and life And saint Paule doth cal it bread euen when it is ministred The bread which we breake is it not the communion of the bodye of Christ This is sufficient for him that will vnderstand how these woordes are taken this is my body He that wil yet stick vnto the letter let him further consider the saying of Saint Paule that the letter killeth and manye other sayings of the scripture which be in like maner as thys is spoken of our sauiour Christ. The woord was made flesh saith S. Iohn yet the deitie of Christ which is the woorde was not turned into man My Father
them againe some drop should go downe his throte and so he should breake his fast But I will let passe these high points disputed in their Canon law and greatest doctors and of this that is sayd I desire the christian reader to iudge whether these wordes are vntrue that a priest may saye two or thrée Masses in one day The. B. of Saris. Concerning consecration he doth great wrong to charge vs with the breach of it before hee him selfe and other of his side are better resolued wherein consecration standeth For Scotus and Innocentius the .3 say that this word benedixit worketh consecration Harding The .56 vntruth VVe are resolued herein The .57 vntruth Scotus and Innocentius say it not Dering Maister Harding to make his vntruthes very common vseth such Logick as is very rare Where the antecedent argument do hang togither he maketh them both vntrue Wel may this doing haue credite among the simple but when the learned doe sée it they do easily say that these vntruthes haue more consideration of number than regarde of good matter and substance But let vs take them as they be the folly of the vntruthmaker shall the more appeare We are sayth maister Harding fully resolued herein that is wherein consecration standeth It is pitie that his worde hath not the Popes priuiledge that it might not erre He neuer wanteth audacitie to denie at aduentures whatsoeuer mislyketh him He sayth in consecration we are all agréed but Marcilius one of his owne doctors saith it is not so Whether of these say true it shal appeare hereafter We agrée sayth maister Harding that consecration of the bread and wine is wrought by these wordes hoc est corpus meuÌ„ this is my body and hic est sanguis meus this is my bloud And of this iudgement is their Pope holye patriarche Saint Peter Lumbarde yet the whole counsell of of Florence say consecration is wrought with all the wordes togither as they lye The chapter of Coleine say these words are not sufficient without the Canon of the Masse Saint Augustine sayth it is wrought with the word of fayth which we preach Saint Ambrose saith these wordes accipite comedite take and eate are part of consecration So haue these men the councell of Florence the chapter of Coleine Saint Augustine and Saint Ambrose against them Now let vs sée how they agrée among themselues Scotus sayth in finall resolution Dico breuiter ê™ non est nobis traditum certitudinaliter an ad formam coÌ„secraâ—ionis sanguinis partineant aliqua verba post illud sanguis meus vel an aliquot illoruÌ„ sequentiuÌ„ vlque illuc hoc facite â–ª c. Ideo periculosum est hoc asserere de quo sufficiens authoritas non habetur I say briefly that we haue no assurance at all whether any other wordes appertaine vnto consecration of the bloud after this is once said this is the cup of my bodie or whether the residue wordes following be part of consecration or no vntill it is sayd take and drinke c. Therefore it is daungerous 〈◊〉 affirme anye thing where you haue no sufficient authoritie And it followeth in Scotus and by this it is manifest they speake vndoscretly which say it is necessary to know in euery sacrament what are the precise and very words of consecration He saith further Let no man say I will vse these precise wordes simplicitie is much surer And vpon this he remoueth a doubt that if the priest should say this is my body and say nothing of that which gooth before we ought not to worship it but on this condicion if it be consecrate And these are Scotus verye wordes iudge now whether he agrée with Peter Lumbarde or whether he be resolued what to say or whether Maister Harding be not past shame that so boldely writeth of all the men that euer wrote maister Iuel might worst haue alleaged Scotus And that all Catholike be fully resolued in this For a larger proufe let vs yet examine it a little further Gabriel Biel expounding the Canon of the Masse ouer these wordes benedixit fregit he writeth ouer benedixit consecrando ouer fregit non panem sed panis speciem so by Biels opinion Christ did consecrate with benedixit he blessed Ludulp de Saxonia and Ihnocentius 3. agréeth with Gabriel Biel. Thomas and Bonauentura say that Christ spake these words twise hoc est corpus meum and so consecrated by them when he pronounced them first secretly Then thus farre M. Hardings doctors doe not well agrée Alexander de ales knoweth not well what to say he sayth in one place Christus dixit bis Christ spake the wordes of consecration twise Afterward he sayth consecrauit nos quo modo nescimus he did consecrate we know not howe Lastly he sayth virtus erat in manibus there was a secrete power in his handes This Doctor is much like Scotus he knoweth not what to say Marciliê° saith how Christ did coÌ„secrate doctores diuersimode dicunt doctors are of diuers minds Some sayd he consecrated without pronouncing any wordes Thus euery man speaking his fansie not guided by the worde of God they walke in darknesse and can not tell whither they go But Maister Harding will say though they can not agrée how Christ did consecrate yet they are fully agréed how themselues doe consecrate This as is before aleaged out of Scotus is not true But before I shew their diners opinions I would demaund of some of maister Hardings friendes howe a good conscience may be satisfied concerning this matter How Christ did consecrate as appeareth they do not agrée and so much maister Harding graunteth and vpon this Scotus sayth Intendebant narrare rem gestam non tradere formam consecrationis The Euangelists intended to set forth the storie not to leaue vnto vs any forme of consecration And Marcilius sayth nullus Euangelistarum nèc etià m Apostolus videtur hanc formam vidisse None of the Euangelists neyther yet the Apostles séeme to haue gyuen our forme of consecration Here I make this reason The Scriptures beare witnesse of Christ and how his body was made but the scriptures beare no witnesse of consecration therefore by their consecration his body is not made Againe consecration being of such force that they themselues confesse their host should no time be worshipped but with condicion if it be wel consecrate and yet this consecration is not taught vs by the scriptures howe is the saying of our sauiour Christ true that the holy ghost should teach vs all truth or how hath Saint Luke fulfilled his promise that sayd he would write of all things euen from poynt to poynt Againe where maister Harding sayth and commonly his other doctors holde that Christ did consecrate by these wordes this is my body if they wil stand to that for ought y t I sée they ouerthrow their owne Masse Christ did breake y e breade
christo apostoli ab ipsis eorū acciperint successores We do surely beleue that that forme of wordes which are in our Canon the Apostles receyued of Christ and there successors of them If this sentence might preuaile then the case of consecration had ben cléere But it is well if the Popes friendes will not beleue him For my part I meane not to purchase him any credit Now resteth the .57 vntruth to examine whether Scotus and Innocentius doe say that benedixit he blessed worketh consecration Maister Harding standeth stiffely in it and doth aduenture his credite that they say it not and being to much inflamed against Maister Iuell he writeth with a good countenance that of al the men that euer wrote he had least cause to bring Scotus for his purpose and that he is very rashe in so doing And if thou wilt beleue him for a cleare iustifying of this vntruth he sayth that Scotus and Innocentius neuer said that benedixit worketh consecration Surely good Reader these desperate assertions might well make thée thinke that thy bishop had deceyued thée But be not yet to hastie of beliefe be simple as the done but be wise as the serpent yea euē as the Romish serpent that hath so well prouided for his yong ones His Prelates may not be accused without .72 witnesses Let not thou a good bishop be discredited with one slaūderous tongue His priestes may not be controlled of any lay man be he neuer so religious Let not thou Gods minister be blamed of an Apostata yea and as though they were not yet prouided for well ynough Pope Euaristus ordeyned that the people should not accuse them at all Yea and that whole Laterane councell vpon good warrant of that saying of S. Paule the seruant standeth or falleth vnto his lord by authoritie of that sacred assemblie they exempt them from such temporall iurisdiction Then let vs be somewhat ware in defence of a Godly Bishop that maister Hardings bolde reprehensions may not proue him faultie Scotus and Innocentius saith Maister Iuell doe say that benedixit worketh consecration That is a false lye sayth M. Harding Then vppon good tryall let the truth appeare and let vs here what the Authors themselues say Scotus in déede sayth thus verba consecrationis sunt quatuor hoc est corpus meum There are 4. wordes of consecration this is my bodye If Scotus had said no more then maister Harding had alleaged all But it followeth a little after sed haec verba hoc est corpus meum prolata sine praecedentibus non significant hoc absolute But these words pronounced without the other wordes going before do not absolutely signifie this that consecration is done Loe Scotus sayth not as maister Harding reporteth him that consecration is wrought by these foure but saith he there is no consecration if the wordes afore which are the blessing be left out And now to auoyde all vaine cauilling about these words G. Biel sayth speaking of the same matter Quid si verba praecedentia omitterentur Respōdetur licet hic Scotus sit alterius opinionis tamen hoc communiter tenent doctores quòd haec quatuor sola sufficiunt ad effectum cōsecrationis What if the words going afore be omitted it is aunswered though Scotus be here of an other opinion yet the common sentence of doctors is these foure are sufficient Here besides the manifest words of Scotus G. Biel is also a witnesse that as maister Iuell sayth this is the common opinion but Scotus thinketh that the wordes going before are necessarye If then Scotus owne wordes and G. Biel witnesse are better proufe of Scotus meaning than Maister Hardings imagination it is true that the consecration is wrought by the whole blessing And this other saying before alleaged by M. Harding must be thus qualified that in that place he saith those are the especiall words Thus is Scotus saying auouched by maister Harding disalowed by his owne plaine words and by the testimonie of Biel. Concerning Innocentius whether he thought consecration was wrought by benedixit he blessed if Maister Harding had regarded his owne credite he would not haue denied it The whole troupe of his doctours doe so alleage his opinion First Scotus saith Sacerdos profert illa verba quasi materialiter quia recitat ea sicut a Christo dicta vt patet per rationem praecedentē in Canone Christus autem quādo illa dixit non transubstantiauit panem in corpus quod probatur ex verbis illius Canonis quia ibi praemittitur benedixit Vnde dicetur quòd per illam benedictionem praecedentem consecrauit non per ista verba hoc est corpus meum Cui concordat Innocentius Concerning the thirde article it is saide that the priest speaketh those wordes as the matter of consecration bicause he recyteth them euen as they were spoken of Christ as it appeareth by that which goeth before in the Canon But Christ when he saide those wordes did not transubstantiate the breade into his body as lykewise is proued by the Canon For there it is sayde before he blessed whereof it is sayde that by that blessing he did consecrate not by those other words this is my body and of this opinion is Innocentius in his booke of the office of the Masse .3 part the .6 Chapt. and the .14 Here hast thou Innocentius auouched and his opinion confirmed by Scotus Now for the thirde point of this vntruth Where Maister Harding saith if Maister Iuell had any mo he would haue named them May it please him to reade Alexander de Ales Okam Gotfrey Albertus Biel Marcilius diuers other of his owne doctors Either he must accuse them all as lyers or there are other of this opinion Thus we sée these great exclamations whereto they fall that in one title he cannot iustifie one vntruth But whether maister Iuell had mo to alleage or no reade his defence of the Apologie thou shalt sée fo 208. The B. of Saris. Cardinall Bessarion Bishop of Tusculum writeth thus Harding The .58 vntruth He vvriteth not so Dering If shamelesse lying were punished in Loueine then no doubt maister Harding would be more ware what he wrote Now as may be thought impunity haue made him confident Let the booke be iudge of this vntruth The B. of Saris. How be it by what soeuer wordes consecration is made it standeth no◠in abolishing of natures as maister Harding teacheth Harding The .59 vntruth I teach not so Dering Certainly good reader this vntruth is very straunge M. Harding is a great mainteiner of transubstantiation in al his doing yet here to get one vntruth he is content to forsake it I doe not teach sayth he that consecration consisteth in the chaunging of natures If it be so then by consecration the nature of bread doth not chaunge into the nature of christs flesh to this I gladly yéelde Would God maister Iuell said here vntruely The
B. of Saris. Consecration is in conuerting the Elements to a godly vse as we see in the water of Baptisme Harding The .60 vntruth The consecration of the water in baptisme is farre different from the consecration of the Eucharist Dering Accedat verbum ad elementum sayth Saint Augustine fit sacramentum Let the worde come vnto the element and it is a sacrament Saint Augustine here maketh no difference at all he biddeth not consecrate the one with whisperings the other with open voice as maister Harding biddeth he teacheth no difference of grace in them both as Maister Harding teacheth Likewise Saint Ambrose sayth non aqua omnis sanat sed quae habet gratiam Christi not all water healeth but that which hath the grace of Christ. And againe water healeth if the holy ghost doe come downe and sanctifie it And againe water healeth if the voyce of the father be heard from heauen So this operation of the trinity is the vertue and the consecration of the water This like operation doth make the bread and wine to be our heauenly food as M. Harding must néedes graūt so the consecration of either both is one If he say the wordes of consecration must be pronounced by the minister whereby as by a meane God doth poure his grace vpō vs and ioyneth vs vnto him I confesse it is so and those wordes are these take eate this is my body So in baptisme after our prayers made vnto god we pronounce the words of cōsecration wherby we know that gods mercy doth sanctifie vs and the bloud of his sonne doth washe away oure sinnes and those wordes are these I baptise thée in the name of the father of the sonne and of the holy ghost So we sée thus farre the consecration in either sacrament is one If he make any difference in the wordes for the maner of speaking in that it is sayd this is my body Saint Paule speaketh likewise of baptisme that it is lauacrum regenerationis the washing of our new birth now lay these all togither By the Eucharist we be ioyned vnto Christ kéeping the feast of our pasouer with the vnleauened bread of sinceritie and truth By baptisme we be sanctified and clensed by the washing of water through the worde The Eucharist is sanctified by the heauenly wordes spoken of the minister in the person of our sauiour Christ so the water doth washe away our vncleannesse by being baptised in the name of the father of the sonne and of the holy ghost The Eucharist for the high and dreadfull misterie of the body of Christ by sayth féeding our soules is called the body the water for the heauenlye operation which God worketh in washing away the naturall vncleannesse in which we are borne is called the regeneration And therefore the consecration of them both can not be diuers M. Harding after his maner may a little dasell simple eyes but his conscience doth beare him witnesse that this doctrine is true But here I must confesse that the popish consecrations if maister Harding doe meane of them do differ much the one from the other and both from Christes institution as I haue shewed in the epistle So Maister Iuell speaking of the sacraments of christs Church and saying consecration is lyke in both sayth not vntrue though the iuglings of the antichristian Sinagogue are neuer so diuers The B. of Saris. This is well noted and opened by Saint Augustine Tract in Ioh 80. Harding The .61 vntruth This is not opened by Saint Augustine Dering Maister Harding by like thinketh he is disputing with one of his popish doctors what hoc signifieth in hoc est corpus meum and therefore he asketh what it is Saint Augustine hath opened Sure not this popish consecration For he neuer heard of it but this spirituall chaunge of the elements to be come of creatures ordeyned for the body salues whereby our mindes are healed And thus is your vntruth aunswered The B. of Saris. The worde of fayth which we preach saith Augustine not the worde which we whisper Harding The .62 vntruth Saint Augustine sayth not so Dering Well sayd Anaxagoras Stande-stiffely to this opinion Sure snow is not white What though it séeme so S. August saith it not What if the word be there thrée or foure tymes for fayling Say on still saint Augustine sayth it not Some of your friendes perhaps wil beleue you But my God I thank I am none of those And you that will not be deceyued good christian people hearken Saint Augustine sayth not sayth M. Harding the worde which we preach And to proue this true he alleageth many lines out of the same place in which lines it is not But ò singularem impudentiam Antonie out of doubt was neuer so past shame He sayth Saint Augustine hath not which we preach and thus he alleageth Augustines wordes verbo dei sine dubio vt mundare possit consecratur baptismus if it were no otherwise yet this worde of God must be preached for how else shoulde it be heard and so engraffe fayth But now Saint Augustines wordes are otherwise hoc est verbum fidei quod praedicamus saith he thys is the word of fayth which we do preach with which word doubtlesse baptisme is cōsecrated that it may purifie vs. That which Saint Augustine saith hoc est c. this is the worde of fayth which we preach Maister Harding turneth thus verbo fidei by the worde of fayth What clipping what nipping what altering is this O if maister Harding had such a vauntage how would he turne his phrases How would he sport himself with reperitions of corrupting the fathers Well thou séest this is no vntruth Reade his Reioinder and conferre it with Saint Augustine thou shalt soone discrie his behauiour Here hast thou christian reader to note that Saint Augustine saith the worde doth consecrate non quia dicitur sed quia creditur not bycause it is spoken but bycause it is beleued Therefore according to Saint Augustine this popish consecration is gone they néede not feare that by common vse the wordes should be contemned or vnwares they should work straunge miracles Without fayth they haue no vertue What these wordes be I tolde thée in the .60 vntruth out of S. Ambrose in the Eucharist accipite comedite hoc est corpus meū take eate this is my body In baptisme baptize them in the name of the father and of the sonne and of the holy ghost The B. of Saris. And whereas he sayth further that we haue no maner oblation in our communion he should not himselfe speake manifest vntruth hauing taken vpon him as he sayth to reforme falsched Harding The .63 vnt I say not that you haue no maner of oblation The .64 vnt I say not I haue takē vpō me to reform falshed Dering Here are two vntruthes the one shamelesse the other witlesse First saith he I say not you haue no maner of oblation
part of Christes institution Harding The .70 vntruth This is not my argument Dering Here Maister Harding and his friend Stapleton doe not well accorde For Maister Harding skippeth one vntruth concerning the number of communicants Replie fo 20. diuis 3. which maister Stapleton maketh the .22 vntruth And least we should thinke it little worth he maketh the same againe the .23 vntruth and for a full conclusion shutteth also the .24 vntruth in it Yea and though it stand here for .3 vntruthes yet as if al they were not sufficient he made it once afore the .19 vntruth So much maister Stapleton maketh of one vntruth which maister Harding accounteth not worth numbring But the matter is not great he loseth nothing here that he will not finde in an other place As touching this vntruth these are M. Hardings verie wordes Concerning the number of communicants in one place that they iangle so much of it is no part of Christes institution For Christ ordeined the sacrament after consecration c. Nowe turne these wordes in forme of argument and they stand euen as maister Iuel placeth them Christ did ordeine the sacrament after consecration c. ergo the number of communicants is no part of Christes institution If these be Maister Hardings owne wordes as sée the booke and thou thy selfe shalt iudge thou canst not be so simple but thou must néedes sée this argument is no worse than himselfe hath made it But bicause in this place he also fashioneth one and in great confidence of his owne cunning writeth in the Margent of his booke an argument proponed to M. Iuell to be considered I will doe him no wrong in chaunging his woords but for that loue which I haue to M. Iuels profession in his behalfe I will as I can consider of it after his owne making But first I must aduertise thée before he setteth vp his mishapen building he layeth the foundation of an ill fauored stomacke and saith by M. Iuel that it is easie for a scoffer to scoffe at arguments framed of his owne scoffing head And so it is easie for an euill speaker in defence of his wicked Doctrine to reporte vnchristianly of Gods minister where suche vnquiet passions do leade away vnderstanding It may be he may finde fauorers but where the God of peace hath engraffed more moderation truthe shall not be preiudiced with suche vntrue behauior Muche other frothe ensueth in great plentie before we come to the proposed reason euen as a rotten wound defileth many clothes that are about it but let it be troden out with silence that cannot be remembred without muche loth somnesse At the last he commeth to his argument after his owne graue considerations thus it is fourmed What so euer is beside Consecration Oblation and Participation is beside Christes institution The number of Communicants in one place is beside these thrée Ergo the number in one place is no parte of Christes institution Of this argument M. Harding boasteth much and in any case will haue M. Iuel yelde vnto the Conclusion But softe M. Harding extorcion is no conclusion If you will enforce a graunt whether it be made or no you can by that be neuer the neare your purpose Therefore for as muche as you haue set forthe your argument as you say to be considered you séeme very vnconstant so soone againe to claime the concâ—usion But you sâ—y if we wil not yelde vnto the reason we must denie the Minor or second proposition True it is the Minor is false but we are not yet come at it The Maior that you thinke so sure is made of false and vnlawfull stuffing as by this consideration that you require shall well appeare The proposition is this What so euer is beside Consecration Oblation and Participation is beside Christes institution first this is false and teacheth wicked doctrine For preaching out of the Lords death vntill he come is a parte of Christes institution And our sauiour biddeth do this in the remembraunce of me that is with due celebration of all my benefits bestowed vpon mankind which must then be preached vnto the people And if it be not so done then Christes institution notw tstanding M. Hardings argument is flatly broken Nowe as this preaching out the Lords death is of Christes institution and yet not rehersed in this first proposition wherby this prosition is shewed false so those other things which are rehersed in it as M. Harding meaneth them are none of them of Christes institution By coÌ„secration he meaneth the pronouÌ„cing of these words this is my body which must be done as y e Masse boke straightly chargeth bothe secretely and with one breath By oblation he meaneth Christes reall body to be offred vp vnto the father By Participation he meaneth that the priest alone may take it at the Altare and no one of these is of Christes institution Nay they all are contrary vnto it So that this proposition wheron he groundeth his argumeÌ„t wanteth somewhat and therefore is not true that which it hath is altogether corrupt and therefore it containeth muche pernicious doctrine First as touching Consecration S. Augustine saith as is alleaged in the .56 vntruth y â— it is wrought verbo fidei by the worde of faith which we preache So saithe Iustinus martir that it is sanctified per verbum precationis gratiarum actionis by the word of prayer and thankes giuing Irenaeus saith quando mixtus calix fractus panis percipit verbum Dei fit Eucharistia corporis sanguinis Christi when the cuppe mingled with wine and water and the bread being broken hath the preaching of the woord of God ioyned vnto it then it is the Eucharist and this was the only Consecration .200 yeres after Christ neither any where any other mentioned except in M. Hardings Decretal Epistles which neither are of credite nor yet teach good religion This same maner of Consecration is taught vs by Cyprian Dyonisius Alexandrinus Ambrose Augustine and suche other as liued within the first .600 yeares after Christ. Although I graunt as appeareth by diuers recordes many solemnities of the Masse were farre spread through superstition yet this exacte kinde of close Consecration is muche yonger This Oblation likewise as it was then vnknowne so now it is of all Christians to be detested that a mortall man should offer vp the immortall God as I haue already shewed in the Epistle For Participation bicause maister Harding can not proue his Priuate Masse within the sixe hundreth yeares and the woord doeth enforce that it is no Participation except there be a number to take their partes I thinke it appeareth sufficiently that in a Popishe Masse they haue no manner Participation or Communion so we sée this Maior is all together false before we come at the Minor Now if we will further examine the Minor we shall finde it false also altogither without salte or sauor for thus it is in effecte
The number of Communicantes is no parte of the Communion which is bothe a very childishe and grosse absurditie For how is there a Communion where is no Communicantes Thus thou séest good Reader this argument is not yet good But the better to consider of it bicause maister Harding will néedes haue it considered let vs take the view of it once againe This is the argument What so euer is beside Oblation Consecration and Participation is no parte of Christes institution But the number of Communicantes in one place is beside these thrée Ergo the number is not of Christes instition What may be said of this whole argument I haue already forewarned thée Now let vs hear what M. Harding saith to it him selfe There is nothing héere saith he to be denyed but the Minor what if it were so What is now the Minor Read the Reioinder thus he saith It is denyed in the Minor that the number of Communicantes together in one place is of Christes institution Why how now M. Harding is this the best argument you can make Marke good Reader this must be the Minor The number of Communicants together is no parte of Christes institution Lay now the Maior to it and the argument ariseth thus What so euer is beside Consecration Oblation and Participation is no part of Christes Institution The number of Communicants is no part of Christes institution The Conclusion is as before Ergo the number of Cōmunicants is no part of Christes institution Did euer M. Iewel father vpon M. Harding suche a mis-shapen argument This is his owne or else he belieth him selfe when he saith that this is his Minor But suche sleights he can vse to vnwinde him selfe out of danger A pretie conueyaunce of a litle forgerie among the ignorant might haue escaped blame But I wil not iudge M. Harding God knoweth whether he did it of purpose or no. This in déede should haue ben his Minor But the Communion of many togither is beside these thrée so the Communion might haue bene without Communicants which is a great absurditie and so consequently M. Hardings argument very euil As touching further triall of this vntruth his wrangling is not worth the consideration Only as he hath set forthe his argument to proue a number of Communicants no part of Christes institution so he shall giue me leaue to propone likewise some arguments for proofe that the Lordes supper may not be celebrate by one alone First thus we argue Christ said take ye eate ye drink ye all do ye this But this is spoken to many Ergo there must be a number To this argument M. Harding maketh this answer You must get you better proofe or else admit the Conclusion of my argument A man would thinke he were a craking souldier that is thus well pleased with his owne doing but if with this craking custome he haue not gotten the craking qualities he shall heare other argumentes though there can be none better It was not among the Iewes lawfull to eate the Pascall Lambe without a sufficient number Ergo the flesh of our sauiour Christ who is our Passeouer must not be eaten by the Priest alone Likewise it may be said of the gathering of Manna in the morning and of the drinking of the rocke I doubt not but here M. Harding can make a spedy answer with many comparisons betwene the figure and the truthe but the good conscience may easily iudge Beside this S. Paule him selfe dothe giue vs in this case a very good argumēt he saith My brethrē When you come togither to eate tary one for another Ergo we must not receiue alone The bread which we breake is the Communion of the body of Christ. Ergo there must be a number at the breaking of it And for a full proofe of this matter Christ sayth I haue earnestly desired to eate this Passeouer with you before I suffer Ergo the Priest must not eate it alone Thus we sée what we are taught by the scriptures cōcerning the number of Communicants and of what value M. Hardings argument is which he himself hath made after his owne fashion Whereby thou maist the better iudge what is to be thought of all those other which M. Iewel ascribeth vnto him The B. of Saris. There is not one peece hereof that either is true in it selfe or agreeth with other Harding The .71 vntruth Some part of it is proued to be true Dering The argument which M. Iuel saithe hath no piece either true or hanging of an other Is thus before alleaged The Sacrament must be receiued after Consecration Ergo a number is not necessary Héere saith M. Harding This is true y ◠the sacrament must be receiued after Consecration But how doeth he proue it Sure with no reason but a great deale of railing saying that M. Iuel is led with the sprite of malice that he will reuoke this when he is in his right minde Or if he will not let him take manducate bibite eate ye drink ye out of the gospel As touching M. Hardings railing bicause his mouth is no slāder I wil let it passe His reasō is this if cōsecration must not be before y e Communion then let manducate bibite be takē out of the gospel One that had so long disputed of good arguments should now haue taken héede how he had made one so ill This will in no wise holde except you turne him contrary and so ouerturne M. Hardings cause with his owne proofe For before y e Euangelists speake the words of Consecration this is my body they say all take and eate so that this foloweth very well if Consecration must be before receiuing then take manducate and bibite out of the Gospel For in the Gospell they are placed before How M. Hardings argument hangeth if Consecration be not before the Communion then take manducate bibite out of the Gospell neither M. Harding him self nor all his Doctors are able to tell vs. And this did Gabriel Biel sée well inoughe who considering this place of the Euangelists that they were bid take and eate before the woords of Consecration pronounced he doeth not as M. Harding doeth speake neither rime nor reason only to mocke the people But he saith plainly that the common opinion is Christ spake not as the Euangelists report take eat this is my body but quite contrary this is my body take eate thus hath Biel found a figure 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to set the cart before the horse and so maketh his religion to agrée with the gospell Now as touching this vntruthe where M. Harding saith so boldly that the bread must haue these wordes this is my body pronounced ouer it before it be receiued first he hath Mathew Marke Luke and Paule against him who all bid first eate and then pronounce these wordes Againe it is confessed by Gabriel Biel that we must thinke Christe spake
should abide still in those Elements S. Iohn dothe witnesse that in Christ it is accomplished what so euer was wanting in those outwarde Ceremonies And for a token of that fulnesse of grace in Christ that in him is found all that reconciliation figured in the law either by bloud or water he writeth that out of his side issued both bloud and water By the bloud he hath purged vs from our sinnes and done out the handwriting of ordinaunce that was against vs and fastened it vpon the Crosse. And that as Paule saith not by the bloud of Goates and calues but by his owne pretious bloud gushing out of his side by which he is entred into the holy place which is heauen and is become the tabernacle the sacrifice and the priest and hath obtained eternall redemption for vs. By the water we are assured that this benefite doth come vnto vs bothe bicause by water we be regenerate and also bicause it signifieth the people so that this miracle of bloud and water in the death of our sauior Christ is the performance of that which God had promised by his Prophet saying In that day shalbe a fountaine opened to the house of Dauid and to the inhabitants of Ierusalem for sinne and for vncleanesse And thus by this water and bloude gushing out of the side of our Sauior we are taught two especiall pointes of the Christian faithe the one that by Christ alone all sinnes are purged the other that in the new Testament we haue but two Sacraments the one of the Lordes death the other of Baptisme which two resembled in this bloud and water haue in them the whole mysterie of our full redemption And thus the remembrance of this same place is the greatest comfort that a Christian soule can haue in the world But Lord those Papists which peruert Gods scriptures what Doctrine haue they gathered of this comfortable saying First that we must haue water mingled with y e wine in the Chalice which in this place be it neuer so ancient yet it hath no ground at all But they goe farther than this they say that the soldiers name was Lungis bicause it is written 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And least there should want any thing to make vp the tale they say that he was strokē blind and then by this bloud and water he receiued his sight againe and so was conuerted wherupon they haue made him a Saint and so now we may kepe the feast of S. Lungis the blinde Knight Yet sure suche canonising is worthe as little mony as these vntruthes had muche idle labor The B. of Saris. Now to reueale the secretes of M. Hardings mysteries touching the same that one drop or two must be poured on the ground Harding The .96 vntruthe The pouring of the water on the ground is no parte of our mysteries Dering When M. Harding cannot defende their too beastly vsage of Gods holy sacraments he thinketh he can salue the whole matter with Hick scorner and saying that we belie their mysteries and I pray M. Hue railer that please your self so wel with Hicke scorner is this no parte of your mysteries Can you now deny them Be ye ashamed of them It skilleth not greatly what you think of this The misterie of iniquitie that so long hath wrought in your sinagoge hath brought many moe abhominations into the Churche of God all which the Lord shall abolishe with the brightnesse of his worde Whether you make great a doe about these things héere alleaged let your Doctors be the iudges Read Scotus in sent 4. dist 11. qu. 6. Biel in 4. sent dist 11. qu. 2. in can miss lect 35. all your other Doctors entreating the same matter Yet whether one or two drops and no moe must be poured downe or no I cōfesse I do not know But why do you stand so in this point It is a very learned doubt in respect of their other folish questions Biel disputeth whether the Priest at Masse doe consecrate all the bread in the market and all the wine in the sellers and concludeth that if he stande so as he may sée it and meaneth to doe it he dothe no doubt consecrate euery whit But now aske Gabriel Biel an other question how shall the Priest doe to take all the bread in the market in his hand as the Masse booke requireth of that which shall be consecrate This is an other doubt which M. Hardings Doctors would surely haue discussed if they had heard it Scotus asketh what if the priest die before he speake all the words how shall then consecration goe forewarde Other aske what if a droppe of wine hang on the outside of the Chalice whether is that consecrate and what if the wine doe fréese in the Chalice and what if the Priest at Masse do remember that when he washt his mouth in the morning a drop of water wēt downe his throte whether should he receiue none sith he had broken his fast or whether should he let all alone Other aske whether Christ be in the Pix euen as he was on the Crosse with his clothes and crowne of thornes about his head And what should I recite all which are almost infinite A thousand such vnreuerent questions they haue disputed in whole volumes Yet now sayth M. Harding they be none of our mysteries Belike he doth yet but hobbe roue he will not go roundly with his Lord God the Pope But happy were he if as he refuseth these vaine questions so he wold renounce that whole adulterous religion The B. of Saris. Nowe it appeareth that the Churche is not yet resolued vpon one intention For the intention of the Churche of Rome is to worke transubstantiation of breade and wine the Greeke Church had neuer that intention as is plaine by the Councell of Florence The intention of the Church of Rome is to Consecrate with Christes words The intention of the Greeke Churche is to Consecrate with prayers Harding The .97 vntruth The Church is resolued vpon one intention The .98 vntruthe The church of Rome intendeth not Transubstantiation The .99 vntruth This is not plaine by the Councel of Florēce The .100 vntruthe The Greeke church dothe not consecrate vvith prayers Dering Now M. Hardings vntruthes go roundly forward If this haste may haue good spéede I warrant him his number But if this haste doe make waste he is neuer a whit the neare Let vs sée then how these vntruths are gathered The first is this The Church is agréed vpon the Priests intent But this can not be so if the Gréeke Church and the Church of Rome doe not agrée which is the .2 vntruthe And they can not agrée if the one will haue transubstantiation the other will not haue it which is the third vntruthe And they will haue the one Transubstantiation the other not if the one doe consecrate with these wordes this is my body the other with prayers which is the .4
denieth that councell to be general bicause there was not gathered together I know not how many Bishops out of christendome But if M. Harding had marked it better he should haue knowne it well inough that general might be applied onely to those twelue which he saithe were there gathered together If they did all well agrée sure that councell was more generall than their Chapter of Trident. If he will force the worde Oecumenicall there is no Counsell that euer was so generall If he will any thing restraine it why may he not bring it downe yea euen to twelue This vntruthe is but a cauil and if it were graunted yet were M. Harding neuer the neare his priuate Masse But bicause he saith so constantly that that Counsell was but of .xij. Bishops in Spaine as Peter Crab also noteth out of Isidorus it is more I thinke than he is able to proue for it is knowne that the Churche of Caesar Augusta Asturica Augusta an other Citie in Spaine and Emerica Augusta a Citie in Portingall ioyned in al matters and were of one felowship so that counsaile of the other xij Bishops had more ouer the consent of their great Cities This Caesar Augusta it self otherwise called Numantia was so populous a Citie that it kept war .xiiij. yeare with the Empire of Rome It was a Citie of so muche worthinesse for religion that what so euer had bene determined there the consent might well haue bene called generall Prudentius dothe séeme to glory that it was his Countrey In the time of Dioclesian and Valerian a great many of Martyrs were there put to death This is a very pore wrangling when sundry forain Bishops met in suche a Citie to denie their Decrées to be agréed on in generall Counsell The B. of Saris. He saith the thing that we receiue is no bread but so Tertullian saith not His words be these thy husbande will thinke it only bread and not that bread that it is called Harding The .116 vntruthe I say it not loke better on my words The .117 vntruthe These are not Tertullians words Dering If looking better on M. Hardings words wil helpe the mater we will not let for that Marke good Reader and loke diligently these are his wordes The thing reuerently and deuoutly receiued before other meates is not bread as the infidels then and the Sacramentaries now beléeue Looke well good reader and for M. Hardings pleasure looke againe doeth he not say it is not bread How is this then vntrue Nowe must I desire thée againe to loke diligently and if thou mark well thou shalt now heare of suche a distinction as in all this booke of distinctions there is none suche I say saithe maister Harding it is not bread I say not it is no bread there is great difference betwéene not bread and no bread Sure if thou looke not maruellous narowly thou wilt neuer vnderstand this distinction For my parte I would surely haue said it that which was not bread had bene no bread and that which was no bread had sure bene not bread and if it were not bread it could not be any bread and if it wer some bread then were it not no bread But let not bread be some bread and no bread be not bread and nothing be not any thing and not any thing be some thing As touching maister Iuell that good simple Bishop I dare sweare for him he neuer knewe of this distinction and so he is wrongfully charged with this vntruthe Yet least maister Harding shoulde please him selfe too well I must forwarne him that I can not alow well of this distinction If he be well aduised this is a Logike rule Aientia negantia acerrime inter se pugnant No things are so contrary as the affirming and denyall of the same thing But panis non panis bread not bread are contradictorie not panis nullus panis bread no bread Therefore maister Hardings saying that no bread dothe signifie more than not bread may séeme to haue no Logike and to speake not very wisely And sure I muse how he could be ouerséene in this considering the substaunce of it is in supposition about which his friendes haue wasted many good houres If he haue forgotten their Doctrine let him remember the verse Particulare prius facit o generale secundum But it may be that maister Harding and his friendes as they haue straunge deuises so they goe about to make newe Logike no doubt they are at some conspiracie For maister Nicholas Saunders whome his friendes thinke some body maketh this very distinction in his fourth booke of the Sacrament and with this common conceite of not bread and no bread would faine haue an vntruthe against maister Iuell And is it possible that these men should agrée in so great a folye if they laid not their heades together Well God be thanked their generall councels conclude very vnwisely Now resteth this other vntruthe about Tertullians wordes which as maister Harding saith are falsified bicause breade is not in the latter ende of the sentence as master Iuell doeth alleage them Tertullians wordes are these Non sciet maritus quid secreto ante omnes cibum gustes si scierit panem non illum credet esse qui dicitur Héere saithe maister Harding illum must not be referred to panem and thereupon he quoteth his vntruthe Euen as he did before for want of Logike so it may be thought he doeth héere through want of Latine Illum saith he is not referred to panem and yet the Grammarian saith the adiectiue must be alway referred to a substantiue except it be put substantiuely in the Neutre gender Now if master Harding can not make illum the Neuter gender nor yet finde any other substantiue in the sentence than panem then his Grammer hath as euill hap as his Logike and this is no vntruthe The B. of Saris. The translating illum him meaneth that it was the very person of a man which the woman had in hir hand Harding The .118 vntruthe It was the person of Christ God and man Dering What meaneth M. Harding to wrangle When M. Iuel saithe he meaneth the persone of a man to be in the fourme of bread can M. Harding vnderstand it of a mortall man Or is the controuersie betwene vs whether in the sacrament be any earthly mannes body If M. Harding would haue let scape this vntruthe no man would haue gathered this absurd sense of M. Iuels saying And yet if we would examine it what manner of vntruth is this where it is said it is a mans body to note it as vntrue and say it is Christes body bothe God and man If it be so yet is it a mannes body vnlesse we deny our sauior Christ to be perfect man suche vntruthes are sone answered The B. of Saris. The story that S. Cyprian reporteth as it sheweth the maner of keping the Sacrament so it seemeth also to shew that
in the congregation receiueth alone Theophylacte a later wryter vpon the same place saith Why should we pray our selues Quia haudquaquam meritò id mysterium sumunt multi bicause many do receiue that mysterie nothing worthely By all these Doctors this place is ment of the Communion S. Ambrose saith It any man be impacient domi terreno pane pascatur Let him eate earthly bread at home And againe we come to gether vt multorum oblatio simul celebretur that the Oblation of many might be made together But S. Ambrose calleth not prophane meats suche as their common feasts were either heauenly bread or our oblation S. Chrysostome saith qui hoc non faciunt indigne communicant they that tary not one for an other doe communicate vnworthily And héere againe we sée this Doctors minde of priuate Masse or as M. Harding wil haue it of the priestes sole receiuing Beda saith likewise alleaging S. Augustine Ad Ianuar. Epist. 1. that this which the Apostle writeth in this place is ment of the Communion S. Ierome also dothe so enterprete it Read all these vpon the xj chapter of the first Epistle to the Corinthians Of the same minde are also Augustine Basil Gregorius Romanus And if thou rest vpon the aucthoritie of men examine all the olde Doctors that haue written vpon the same place not them only but suche as are of yonger age as Thomas Scotus Lyra Hugo gloss ordinaria and suche other They all agrée this saying of S. Paule tary one for an other is ment of the Communion Dionysius Carthusianus on the same place speaketh very plaine when ye come together to eate saith S. Paule Panem coelestem saith Dionysius the heaueÌ„ly bread videlicet corpus Domini that is to say the body of the Lord. And Nicholas of Gorram vpon these woordes tary one for an other wryteth thus Docet modum in hora communionis ordinate accedendo he teacheth howe to come orderly in the time of Communion What plainer aucthoritie can there be than these Who séeth not that all antiquitie haue vnderstande S. Paules words of the Communion If thou search them thine eyes shall be thy witnesse Yet saithe maister Harding as he were priuiledged without blame or discredite to speake what he would that Martyr Caluine Cranmer and suche other haue deceiued maister Iuel but it is wonderfull to sée howe he speaketh against the truthe the Lord knoweth whether against his owne conscience Read the Replie Fol. 94. thou shalt further sée â–ª how in the Communion the people came togither But as touching this place bicause the spirite of God is not tied to any man or age we will leaue our witnesses and examine the place First S. Paule blameth them bicause they come togither not with profite but with hurt And then teaching how they ought to come togither and in what sorte to haue their méetings he teacheth them by the example of our sauior Christ and his doctrine saying â–ª that which I haue receiued of the Lord that I haue deliuered vnto you that Iesus Christ in y e same night y t he was betrayed tooke bread c. making a full description of the Lords supper whereunto be adioyneth for this cause many of you are weak c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For this cause which is the vnorderly receiuing the communion Yet saith M. Harding it is ment of their feastes After this it dothe folow in Paule Wherfore my brethren when you come togither to eate tary one for an other Now if this be not yet plaine inough that he meaneth of the Sacrament then looke what foloweth an vndoubted proofe of the whole matter Least saith S. Paule you come togither to your condemnation Is this at any time pronounced of any manner eating but of the vnworthy eating of that blessed sacrament Yet for the priuate Masse sake this plaine scripture must be denyed and impudently wrested into a straunge sense And marke héere how maister Harding would haue S. Paule reason the woordes before are plaine of the Lordes supper Of those words S. Paule concludeth wherefore my brethren c. Then by maister Hardings meaning S. Paule should reason thus A man must prepare him selfe to receiue the Communion Ergo they must tary one for an other at their common feastes such lose arguments the spirite of truth doth not vtter But suche is M. Hardings fashion he dothe not consider how he wresteth Gods scripture while he thus defendeth his vngodly Masse The B. of Saris. The like decrees are found vnder the names of Calixtus Anacletus Martinus Hyllarius and others by which it is certain that the whole church then receiued togither Harding The .221 vntruthe It is not certaine by those decrees Dering Sée the .151 vntruthe It is the same in effecte that this is But let vs sée héere also how truely M. Harding speaketh It doeth not appeare by these decrées saith he that all receiued togither this shall be best tried by the words of the Decrées Calixtus saith thus When consecration is done let all communicate which will not be excluded out of the Churche Anacletus hath the very selfe same woords but how it cometh to passe let the Decretal epistles sée that haue this agréement very often and yet it is very straunge that diuers menne should speake the same woordes Hylarius saythe if thy sinnes be not so great that thou must be excommunicate thou must not seperate thy selfe from the body and bloude of the Lorde Martinus sayth If any man heare the scriptures readen and of a superstitious minde doe thinke he should not Communicate sette him be excommunicate now iudge whether these decrées teach that the whole church should receiue together M. Harding can answere nothing but bringeth two distinctions one olde one which we had before in the .151 vntruthe an other he maketh more to answere Pope Hilarie and that is this where Hilarie saith If he be not excommunicate let him not abstaine from the sacrament We may abstaine saith M. Harding sacramentally though not spiritually If these distinctions may be alowed ther is no aucthoritie so good but let M. Harding slip and he wil answer it But S. Paule saith take héede y t no man spoile you through Philosophy and vaine deceit The B. of Sarisb Chrysostome saith we are all of one worthinesse to receiue the mysteries Harding The .222 vntruthe He saith not so Dering These are Chrysostomes words Est autem vbi nihil differt sacerdos a subdito vt quaÌ„do fruendum est horrendis mysterijs Similiter enim omnes vt illa percipiamê° digni habemur there is a time saith he when the priest dothe differ nothing from the lay man as when they must enioy the dreadful mysteries For we are al accompted of like worthinesse to receiue them And that we should not doubt of his meaning he maketh afterward along discourse to proue this same Yet saith master Harding it is false it is vntrue Chrysostome saith
other place whatsoeuer is set before you eate it and aske no question for conscience sake These sayings cannot stande with Maister Hardings religion about such questions how the word of God might agrée with it selfe Those busye heades might haue ben better occupied then in mouing such doubtes as a Christian heart adhorreth to remember But if they had ben so occupyed in Gods most holy euangelies as they were in Peter Lumberdes fancies they woulde soone haue turned ouer these winde shaken opinions Now while Maister Hardings friendes shal muse how these sayinges may agrée I will shewe thée godly reader how the Eucharist hath no vse except it be receiued Consecrate while they will crosse round about the bread breath ouer it at their pleasure looke demurely as they can intend what they list except the breade be receiued no maner conueyaunce can bring Christes presence Somewhat for proufe of this maye appeare by the vsage of the pascall Lambe and of Manna Of the lambe nothing might be reserued til the morning what did remaine should be burnt with fire Therfore we may coniecture it should not be lawfull to reserue the sacrament So likewise of Manna nothing might be reserued till morning if ought were had it was turned into wormes and stanke These being both figures of our sacrament the coniecture is not euill to thinke lykewise the Eucharist might not be reserued then the case were plaine it had no vertue but being receiued Howe be it I wyll not force any suche comparisons God doth lighten whom it pleaseth him The scriptures doe other where testifie plentifullye this that we teache First the Eucharist is to vs as the peace offerings among the Iewes which was a sacrifice or thanks giuing offered for peace or prosperitie and as they that made any such offering must doe it before the doore of the Tabernacle of the congregation c so Aarons sonnes sprinckled the bloude about the aultar otherwise it had bene no peace offering So we in the Eucharist must come to the Congregation gyue thankes and prayses vnto God preache out the death of hys sonne Christ and eate and drink of that heauenly mysteries or els it is not the Eucharist And the church naming this sacrament Eucharistia hath well declared that without open thankes-geuing there is no suche sacrament But who can doubt any whyt of thys matter that readeth the woordes of our sauiour Christ reported by S. Iohn or the other Euangelists and S. Paule Labour for the meate sayth Christ that the sonne of man shall giue vnto you He sayth not for the meate which is hanged vp in the Pixe And the people make their aunswere Lord giue vs euermore of this bread Againe Christ sayth The breade which I will giue is my flesh which I will giue for the life of the world Ther is then no benefite where this bread is not giuen and in this chapter it is often repeated that we must eate this flesh or els we haue no lyfe in vs. Yet in all this place nor in any place of scripture any one word is found y â— commendeth either mencioneth this sacrameÌ„t without the vse of it So if we wil apply this .6 chap. of Iohn to the sacrament as M. Harding in anye wyse will doe we sée how there is no grace no vertue in it if it be not vsed Concerning the woordes of this sacrament reported by the other Euangelistes and by saint Paule they are very plain Take and eate thys is my bodye saye they and of the Cup Drinke ye all of this thys is my bloude c. But by M. Hardings doctrine the holye ghost might haue spoken in this sorte Looke all vpon this and worship it this is my body And of the cup Drinke none of you of this yet it is my bloud Such is the sacriledge of that wicked masse in doing to vndoe that our Sauiour hath saide But here I cannot a little wonder at them In their owne inuentions they haue placed in their Masse these words accipite manducate and some thinke they are very requisite to transsubstanciation yet when they vtter them they meane nothing lesse than that any other but them selues should take part They prepare but a litle cake and a draught of wyne to make sporte with They intende not to communicate with other yet they saye alway take and eate A lye is very euill in any maner doing but in the seruice of God it is very detestable God when he will turne their hartes Here we se concerning this sacrament Christ commaunded nothing but that we shoulde in a holy company eate and drinke in remembrauncâ— of his death and passion But how turneth the Pope our sauiours commaundement He careth neither for eating nor drinking but when he goeth forth he setteth vp his sacrament vpon a white horse backe and men of eche syde with tapers and litle belles and so teacheth the horse that he will go to the aultare and there knéele vpon his knées till his Maisters god be taken downe Thus will the Pope teach horses to worship God euen as somtyme the Leuites woulde cary the Arke in a newe carte when they brought it out of the house of Aminadab For neyther haue we any one word to cary about the sacrament neyther had they of the carte And this is a greate misery that hauing no warrant for our Marchandise our candels our sensors our vestiments our oyle boxes our corporasse our porâ—uisse and sixe hundred thousandes suche other yet we make no account of them as though they pleased God If any thing séeme somewhat doubtfull then we turne vs to Doctors to councels to decrees to scholemen and to the holy closet of the Popes owne brest as thoughe Gods worde were not our wisedome and our vnderstanding in the sight of all people But God be thanked for his owne ordinaunces and lawes that are so righteous Now to the next marke that Maister Harding coulde neuer shoote at and this marke hath a great many péeces and such as is not easly discerned which is the greatest so I knowe not certainelye wher at to measure The first péece is this there is no difference betwixt the Priest and the people in the mystery of the sacrifice But what meaneth Maister Harding to finde the marke him selfe and then refuse to shoote at it Would he haue vs thinke this were Maister Iuels marke He saith no such thing Sure M. Harding hath verye straunge artillery His bow is made of slaunders and it will shoote nothing else but lies He can get nothing with cunning therfore he would saue him selfe by facing This stode them in good stede in the disputations at Oxford wher their friends wer moderators but in a booke that is written to all men this shift is shameles Let vs sée what saith M. Iuell of this marke Not one word Why doth Maister Harding reporte it He is disposed to lye But whervpon doth he gather it Forsoth out of Bernard
it is doubtlesse an abhominable lie foreged out of secrecy bicause it should not be coÌ„uinced by witnesse But it shal not be a misse bicause this thing coÌ„meth to question to note what M. Iuell might saye and what the Prince must doe It is not vnknowen what authoritie hath bene giuen vnto the Pope that he hath rule both of heauen and earth and he that taketh one iote of this authoritie from that church is an hereticke And that he may not be iudged as Pope Boniface hath decreed though he drawe innumerable soules headlong into hell and that he hath all knowledge in the closet of his brest that he can dispence against the Apostles and against the old testament and that we must abide the yoke that the Pope layeth vpon vs though it be intollerable and that seate is apostolica sublimitas euen as high as the Apostles and that quicquid statuit quicquid ordinat what soeuer the Pope appointeth what soeuer he ordeineth perpetuo irrefragabiliter obseruandum est it must be obserued for euer without any contradiction Suche blasphemous authority giuen vnto the Pope made that in the time of restoring the Gospell euen good men attributed more vnto the Prince then was conuenient and flatterers more then was to be borne with all as in the time of the sixe articles Bishop Gardiner and his felowes did vnto King Henry the eight when they gaue him authority in the church of God to institute or disanull Lawes as it lyked him best to forbid the mariage of ministers to deny the people the cup in the Lords supper The graunting of such authority is flattery in the subiect the receiuing it presumption in the Prince The church is y e spouse of Christ purchased with his precious bloud and ioyned vnto him euen as a woman vnto hir husbande The Prince is héere a subiect and may set the church no Lawes but as hir heade appointed Christ doth sanctifye his church with the washing of water through the worde that is with baptisme and the preaching out our iustification in his frée mercy if the Prince say it shall be sanctified with crossing and créeping with diredges and Trentalls with holy Breade and holy Water with Pilgrimage and Bonfiers the Prince is rebellious and the Subiect must yéelde his lyfe Then for a briefe conclusion if the Prince wil make any new holynes or forbid the minister to preach y e word that is written or if he will say we shall Prophecie no more at Bethel bicause it is the Kings chapple and bicause it is the kings Courte it lyeth not in his authority Wo be vnto the Prince that shall be so led with errour But if the Princes will doe nothing but she will aske councell at the mouth of God if she will humble hir selfe vnder him as low as the poorest creature in the world if she will set out his glory and â—â—presse the wicked blasphemyes of the honorable if Christ crucified for hir sinnes be alwayes pictured before the eyes of hir soule then shall she runne a happy course and in the end haue a happier garlande If she shoulde héere of enimies hir owne conscience shoulde make hir without feare if all iniquitie should stirre vs to rebellion she should sit vnmoueable The Lord hath placed hir and who is he shall put hir downe She is a good nourse of Christes misticall body and no authority is alone hereof yet in all this supremacy we tye hir vnto the worde of God and as she hath regard vnto hir owne soule in the name of hir God we charge hir not to go beyonde it In this is hir prerogatiue that she can inforce other to this obedience and no man can enforce hir This supremacye Maister Iuell did neuer deny the popish supremacy no good man will grauÌ„t Let it then be contemned wherwith Maister Harding maketh vp this tragedy that we teach one thing at home an other thing abroade After this vsuall inuention he frameth a little Philosophy of his owne and then furthereth it on Epicure wherwith he faineth his comparison Now let the indifferent reader iudge which of these is the wauering man Maister Iuell that in his life hath gone not one hower backe or Maister Harding that many yeares hath preached contrary doctrine Doutlesse had he liued in Seuerus time notwithstanding this long apology his armour shoulde haue ben pulled off and he left naked in token of an apostata and his aduersary commended that in all his lyfe hath ben founde so constant Hardyng ¶ What fault so euer you finde with my chauÌ„ge certaine it is al chaungs be not reproueable He chauÌ„geth wel that chaungeth from euil to good It is a happy chaunge that is made from errour to truth from schisme to vnitie from heresie to right faith from contempt of Religion to the loue of Religion from darkenesse to light from pride to humilitie from pleasing men to study how to please God Who so euer maketh this chaunge he is not to be accompted mutable nor inconstant Dering Hitherto Maister Harding can not deny his turning now least it should preiudice his estimation he thinketh good to commend it true it is he turneth well that turneth for the best it is better to returne then to run alwayes euill but whether you haue made this turne or no it must be tryed not by your worde but by the truth of God The Prophet Dauid doeth aske the question how one shoulde turne aright and doth aunswere him selfe by taking héede vnto Gods worde Now I appeale to Maister Hardings conscience what part the worde of God did worke in his turning he maketh continuall crying out of the church the church but very déepe silence of the worde of God Yet Christ saith heauen and earth shal passe before his word do passe S. Paule saith We may not beleue an Angell that preacheth any other doctrine S. Iames saith It is the word that can saue our soules S. Peter saith It is as sure as the voice of God him selfe that was herd from heauen and what meane these men vnder a vaine title of the church so to neglect it Christ promised to be with his church vntill the latter end of the world but his word is his presence not mans inuentions his Euangelies are our learning not supersticious ceremonies The dayes are now come that we shall say no more the arke of the couenaunt of the Lord but by Christ alone we must make our prayers and by him alone offer vp the sacrifice of praise vnto God that is the fruit of our lippes which confesse his name Therfore if you will make a good turne you must turne to that church which turneth only vnto him and to the simplicity of his Gospell But you haue put on the adulterous attire of straunge intercession and clothed hir selfe with altares and altare clothes with Copes vestimentes Awbes Tunicles Curtaines Sensors Candlestickes Crosses and such other You are
And oure Sauiour Christ. Euen Moyses in whome you trust he shall accuse you So that if Mayster Harding had this confidence he woulde séeme to haue yet had he not the truth But euen as the Prophete sayde we myght saye of hym posuit vt Adamantem cor suum he hath made hys heart euen as the Adamant stone But his vayne assuraunce shall bée as the dust that is blowne away with the wynde Thoughe he saye peace peace yet there shall be no peace Though he cry the Church the Church yet their wicked Sinagog is not the Church The prowde Citie did say I am and none else Yet was shee sinne iniquitie and nothing else The Prophetes sayde swoorde and famine shall not be in thys land Yet by swoorde and famine those Prophets were consumed Sith then it is so that the wicked may haue this vaine trust let vs not bée deceyued with eyther bolde or entysing woordes Let vs not be wyse in our owne conceyte let vs lay no foundation of our fayth other then is alreadye layd but let vs looke after Chryst Iesu and learne what is hys wyll let vs searche in his holye woorde and séeke what is our wisedome So shall neyther the spirite of errour violentlye drawe vs captiues nor vayne imaginations leade vs away Wee shall be followers of Iesu Christ the righteous and wee shall walke as they doe that haue hym for theyr example we shall care for those thinges that are aboue and wée shall haue our conuersation in heauen from whence also we looke for a Sauiour euen the Lorde Iesu Christ who shall make our vyle bodye that it may be fashioned lyke vnto his glorious bodye which tyme for his mercye sake he vouchsafe to hasten who of his mercy hath ordeyned vs vnto that kindgome where he lyueth one God and thrée persons the father the sonne and the holye ghost to whome bée all honour and glorye worlde without ende Amen A sparing restraint of many lauishe vntruthes which maister D. Harding would finde in the first article of the Bishop of Sarisburies Replie by Edward Dering student in diuinitie The B. of Sarisburie Mayster Harding maketh his first entrye with a Cauill Harding The .1 vntruth It is no Cauill Dering NOW MAISTER HARDING hath so diligently examined this first article searched out as he sayth many and great vntruthes I must craue of thée which art the indifferent reader to yéeld vnto those thinges whiche he can not blame and to acknowledge it for true which he can not controll Of this shalt thou haue this great benefite that when thou hast duely tryed all that is written thou shalt cleaue in the ende to the truer part and finde the saluation of thine owne soule Read them with an indifferent iudgement and beleue as the spirite of God shall moue thée If Mayster Harding say true that in this first article there be .225 vntruthes for my part I craue no parcialitie saye boldly Mayster Iuell is not as he pretendeth But if this be false and Mayster Hardings report be altogither slaunderous then pray that he may soone repent and confesse that godly and learned Bishop to be a faythfull labourer in the haruest of the Lord. This first vntruth is that Mayster Harding in his aunswere beginneth not with a Cauill The question is moued whether within the space of .600 yeares after Christ there were any priuate Masse Mayster Harding maketh answere that euery Masse concerning the oblacion and Communion is common as likewise it is concerning the first institution and will of the Priest But in consideration of place tyme audience purpose rytes and other circumstances it may be priuate The vntruth lyeth whether this answere be a cauill Here we may aunswere two wayes One after the common vse of speaking an other after the nature of the worde For our common speach it is certaine we call that a cauill which is a drawing of any word knowne wel inough into a straūge signification as Mayster Harding vseth here his Masse For who knoweth not that by priuate Masse we doe meane that which the priest practiseth alone at the altare Nowe here to come in with this distinction which I wéene neuer before was heard of what is it else but to Cauill Thus if we follow the common speach of men this is no vntruth If it lyke M. Harding to sticke vnto the nature of the worde let vs examine it and so sée whether this distinction be a Cauill Cauillatio saith the Lawyer est subdola ratio quam conscij nobis mendacii proferimus a Cauill is a subtile reasoning which we our selues know is false but yet we vse it Nowe if this distinction be false and that Mayster Harding know well ynough then is it manifestly a cauill The distinction is this Euery Masse by institution will of the priest oblation communion is common as touching persons place time c. it may be priuate Nowe first whether the Masse by institution be common Gabriel Biel sayth as touching the substaunce and first institution of the Masse there is nothing necessarie but in the thing bread and wine in the priest orders good pronunciation and a pure will These being rightly had in all places at all tymes whether any be present or no Missa rite celebratur verum est sacrificium The Masse is truely celebrate there is a true sacrifice therfore Masse by institution is not common If Mayster Harding will replie and say that euen in such Masses the sacrifice is effectuall to the whole Church and so the Masse is common that aunswere were very childish and would bréed dissention in their own church For both G. Biel denieth it in plaine wordes and the thing it selfe altogither disagréeth Biel sayth impeditur tamen fructus eò quòd inordinatè indignè consecratur sumitur though the Masse be a true Masse yet there is no fruite of it for as much as consecration and communion are vnorderly and vnworthily ministred And for the thing it selfe M. Harding knoweth the benefite of his Masse is so applied if their be one to aunswere in the name of the people but in these Masses it is not required that anye one be present to make aunswere It followeth then that some Masse by no meanes is common and so Ma. Hardings distinction is a cauill I passe ouer for breuitie the beginning of this Masse how it hath nothing of the Apostles And before the sixt Synode of Constantinople no part of it was euer song in Latine but this spoken of Biels authoritie is proufe sufficient for thys present purpose The seconde thing that we haue to consider is whether the Masse be common by will of the priest or no. And thys question though it be hard to decyde yet we may haue some probable coniecture why the priest doth not alway meane to bestow his deuocion vpon euery man We haue had a common prouerbe rising vpon the disagréement
before he spake those words as appeareth by all the Euangelists and by Saint Paule but they holde it vp whole and bid vs worship and after at more leysure they breake it in péeces But to what purpose should I examine their doings God deliuer vs from that crooked and froward generation Now for tryall of maister Harding his vaunts I will alleage some of his doctors that thou mayst know whether they are agréed about their own consecration The common opinion is consecration is wrought by these wordes this is my body But Mercillius sayth that enim is part of consecration and that the Church was so taught by Saint Peter Gabriel Biel and his companions say that enim is not necessarye for the consecration but for him that doth consecrate and he that leaueth it out should sinne deadly and yet Mathew Marke Luke and Paule all foure did leaue it out I trow without deadly sinne The Decretals teach vs that all which is in the canon of the Masse though it be not in the scripture yet we must take it as receyued from the Apostles And so the matter shall be fully discussed That is of consecration which the Canon appointeth Gracian alleaging S. Ambros maketh the priest to say in the person of Christ all these wordes accipite comedite c. so alleaging that for the consecration he maketh these sixe wordes of consecration take eate this is my body He sayth likewise alleaging Eusebius Nowe for the consecration of the cup M. Harding sayth these are the wordes this is my bloud Nay sayth Gabr. Biel forma indubitata the vndoubtfull forme is this this is the cup of my bloud and sayth boldly sufficienter plene significant conuersionem fully and sufficienly they work consecration Yet vpon better aduice writing vpon the maister of the sentences he sayth forma consecrationis specierum vini necessaria precisa ex scriptura canonica non est sufficienter determinata The forme of consecration of the wine what is precise and necessarie the canonicall scriptures haue not sufficiently determined it By this it is plaine that M. Hardings doctors will not all agrée except you take them in their good moode Biel sometime will not sticke in it you shall haue consecration wherein you will another tyme he is flatly resolued and sayth out of doubt thus it is And least maister Harding should wrangle with his wordes himselfe maketh full resolution of his meaning and sayth further dubium est an aliqua verba preter illa hic est calix sanguinis mei sint de necessitate consecrationis there is a doubt whether any wordes beside these this is the cup of my bloud be of necessitie of consecration And being not able to determin such a learned question he sayth this is certaine say all the words in the Canon of the Masse and consecration is among them Here thou séest good reader this man that is one place maketh no bones at it but sayth out of question it is thus in another place he cryeth peccaui and for his lyfe dareth not affirme one word and yet did Gabriel knowe as much of consecration as M. Harding doth But let vs heare other Scotê° as is already said knoweth not what is the exact forme and saith that the Grekes vse an other forme than we do And here by the way note that M. Harding findeth great fault with Maister Iuel for alleaging the Gréeke Church and sayth they were but certaine Scismatikes yet Scotus alleageth the same and accounteth them as Catholikes but so is maister Harding prepared in a burning desire to gainsay M. Iuell that he often falleth out with his owne friend But let this passe Thus Scotus concludeth that if the priest entend to doe as the Church doth and reade all the wordes distinctly he doth consecrate though he know not how Frauncis de Mairon an other of maister Hardings doctors sayth that these fiue wordes hic est calix sanguinis mei this is the cup of my bloud work consecration yet again in the same article mouing a doubt of the same matter he answereth thus some say it is so but Scotus sayth nay Marcilius sayth it is probable these are the wordes of consecration Hic est calix sanguinis mei But I will determine nothing in so high a matter And after for a ful declaratioÌ„ that they can not agrée among themselues he sayth Hoc noÌ„ est expressum per canoneÌ„ aut sedem Apostolicam it is not determined neither by the Canon nor by the Apostolicall seate Thomas Aquinas sayth all these are the words of consecration Hic est calix sanguinis mei veteris noui testamenti misterium fidei qui pro vobis pro multis effundetur in remissionem peccatorum this is the cup of my bloud of the new and old testameÌ„t the misterie of fayth which shall be shed for you for many Bonauenture sayth these latter wordes are not of consecration but they doe expresse the qualitie of the thing turned Clingius a late wryter and a chiefe doctor of M. Hardings side sayth the wordes of consecration be these this is my bodye and hic est sanguis meus c. this is my bloud c. When he hath not what to say he turnes it ouer with c. After in the same title he sayth absolutely these are the wordes this is my body and bloud and in them is all the substance of the Masse But againe he sayth in an another place hic est sanguis meus noui testimenti c. this is my bloud of the new testament and so forth and there he sayth all that followeth is the chiefe substaunce of the Masse and that all those wordes are spoken in the person of Christ and so consequently be part of consecration He sayth further that the words of consecratioÌ„ being pronounced by any vnméete person do worke nothing and that it was neuer shewed by any signe or miracle that a lay man might consecrate Yet maister Harding sayth that God shewed a miracle vpon certaine shepheards which sang these wordes and knew not what they ment and they consecrated vnwares Thus maister Harding passeth not so hée may saye somewhat to be at some dissention euen with hys friendes and thus much of this Let the reader examine these places and he shall sée whether maister Hardings worde be a good warrant that in consecration they all be full agréed And sure this great disagréement is so much the more blameable for as much as if they woulde haue followed their supreme head the Pope there had bene no controuersie in this matter For by his censure the very words of the canon in the Masse are the wordes of consecration vsed both by Christ and hys Apostles although none of the Euangelists haue expressed them These are the popes wordes Credimus ergo quod formam verborum sicut in canone reperitur a
yet these are his owne very wordes Where as in Christes institution concerning this sacrament thrée things are conteyned the sacrament the oblation and the participation wherin consisteth the substance of the Masse they haue quite abrogate the other two and left a bare communion Nowe these being his wordes sure this vntruth is shamelesse The second vntruth is in denying that he sayth he doth reforme falshed and this is it which I sayd is witlesse The B. of Saris. We offer vp vnto God our selues our soules our bodyes and almes for the poore prayses and thankes giuing ▪ c. which the olde fathers say is the sacrifice of the new testament We offer vp as much as Christ commaunded vs to offer Harding The .65 vntruth They say not so The .66 vntruth You offer not vp the bodie and bloud of Christ. Dering Were not maister Hardings behauiour alwayes notable in these vntruthes he might else séeme to passe himselfe For proufe that the olde fathers sayde this spirituall sacrifice was the sacrifice of the new testament Maister Iuell alleageth Tertullian thus The pure sacrifice that Malachie speaketh of that should be offered vp in euery place est predicatio Euāgelii vsque ad finem mundi is the preaching of the Gospel vntil the ende of the worlde Againe that sacrifice is simplex oratio de conscientia pura and a deuout prayer of a pure conscience Then he alleageth Eusebius that y e same sacrifice is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the sacrifice and incence of prayer Last of all he alleageth Ierom expounding the same place dicit orationes sanctorum domino offerendas esse in omni loco The prophet meaneth hereby that the prayers of holye people should be offered vnto God in all places to these places Maister Harding bringeth but his bare nay and aunswereth not one worde but for proufe of his vntruth concludeth thus you should haue done well to haue named these olde fathers and to haue alleaged their owne words for your credit sake who could speak thus shamelessely that had any shame in him Maister Iuell here nameth both Tertullian and Eusebius and quoteth the places where these sayings are to be founde And in the 559. leafe of his Replie reciteth their very wordes Yet sayth M. Harding this is false he should haue alleaged some doctors by like his heade was so full with the number of these vntruthes that he could not sée their names If these thrée doctors séeme to maister Harding to be but fewe or if therefore he could not sée them a little to helpe his eye sight it shall not be tedious to alleage mo Iustinus Martyr sayth these sacrifices of christians are onely perfite and acceptable vnto God preces gratiarum actiones prayers and thankesgiuing And againe the prophets do not promise that the bloudie sacrifices shal be renewed but they promise vs veras ac spirituales oblationes laudis atque gratiarum actionis true and spirituall sacrifices of prayse and thankesgiuing Clemens Alexandrinus sayth speaking of prayer that that is optimum sanctiss sacrificium the best and most holy sacrifice Againe Sacrificium Deo acceptum est corporis eiusque vitiorū seperatio Is est verus re vera dei cultus the sacrifice that God accepteth is to set a part all vice from our bodie that is in déede the verye true worshipping of God Tertullian sayth we doe sacrifice but so as God hath commaunded that is pura prece with a pure prayer Athenagoras an olde writer sayth thus quid ego sacrificia holocausta curem c. what should I care for sacrifice or burnt offerings of which God hath no néede he requireth for him an vnbloudie sacrifice that is that we offer and giue a reasonable soule vnto him These are ynowe for M. Harding to sée or he will sée none be they neuer so many It all shoulde be alleaged that witnesse this onelye to be sacryfice of christian men it would fill a whole volume but if M. Harding can shew but one to proue that the priest offereth vp Christ vnto his father this shall not onely goe for vntrue but we wil all subscribe vnto his religion For this other vntruth that we offer not vp the bodie and bloud of Christ when M. Harding can proue that Christ hath so commaunded vs this shall be vntrue Here marke maister Harding for all his narrow search for vntruthes yet ouerskippeth a couple that M. Stapleton hath espied one of Saint Basil an other of Saint Cyril Beleue them both if thou wilt swim in errors The B. of Saris. But sayth maister Harding we make no mention of the sacrifice◠Harding The .67 vntruth I say not so Dering What meaneth maister Harding by this vntruth Is there any distinction to be brought betwéene oblation and sacrifice He sayth expressely we do not so much as once name the oblation oblation sacrifice differ no more then ensis gladius then a brake and a fearne bush or any two wordes which expresse one thing Then if M. Hard. say we name not the oblation he sayth we name not the sacrifice this he must néedes confesse except he will wrangle about the worde Sure as the common saying is in this vntruth is neither rime nor reason The B. of Saris. He calleth Christes ordinance a bare communion Harding The .68 vntruth Your Communion is not Christes ordinance Dering Before Maister Harding note this vntruth any more I would wish after so many Maister Iuels requestes he should at last bring some scripture or doctor or generall counsell or some example of the primitiue Church to proue it His worde weyeth ouer light in so great a matter For our discharge we doe and say euen as Christ did and sayde and more we dare not bicause that is perfite They make many apishe toyes of their owne neyther can the reuerence of that high mysterie bring them to any obedience The B. of Saris. Euen now maister Harding sayd there were three things in Christes institution consecration oblation participation nowe he sayth the number of communicants is no part of Christes institution thus he falleth out with himselfe Harding The .69 vntruth I fall not out with my selfe Dering What can be more contrarie than to say participation is of Christes institution and againe partakers that is number of communicants are not of Christs institution In the lords cause we will speake as the lord speaketh heauen and earth we call to witnesse whether this be not contrarietie Yet M. Harding and I trow euen onely maister Harding is so bolde to note this for an vntruth But the vntruth is sufficientlye aunswered in that the indifferent reader may sée the wordes The B. of Saris. I may not nowe dissemble the value of maister Hardings argument Christ sayth he ordeyned the sacrament after consecration and oblation done to be receyued and eaten ergo the number of communicants in one place is no
otherwise than the Euangelists reporte his words or else they could not agrée with their Masse this is a sufficient discharge of this vntruthe A good Christian before he sée better aucthoritie will beleue as the Gospell teacheth that we must first take it and eate it before it be Christes body so shall he sone sée the Idolatrie of a Popishe Masse The B. of Saris. If Christe instituted the Sacrament to the intent it should be first consecrate and then receiued of a companie c. Harding The .72 vntruthe This is a very grosse falsifying of my words Dering These are M. Hardings owne wordes in this Diuision Christ ordained y e Sacrament after Consecration done to be receiued eaten Of these words saith M. Iuel as is before alleaged if Christ. c. if I should héere aske of the indifferent Reader wherin is this grosse falsifying sure he could easily espie it But somewhat to helpe the Readers vnderstanding this it is where M. Harding hath to be receiued and eaten M. Iuell saith to be receiued of a companie if this be as it is in déede no fault whereto is this vnseasonable crying out of falsifying But if it shall séeme to be a fault then know that where M. Iuel alleageth M. Hardings owne wordes he printeth them in a distinct letter but this saying which so grieueth M. Harding is in the common letter of M. Iuels words wherby master Harding might haue wel vnderstand had he not bene disposed to wrangle that master Iuel alleaged them not as his expresse words but rather sheweth how he should haue made his saying plaine and this he proueth by authoritie of Bessarion and Gabriel Biel that after Consecration the sacrament be not receiued onely as maister Harding sayth but receiued of a company which word as it must so being expressely written master Harding did directly reason against himselfe The B. of Sarisb The .9 diuision Here vnawares he seemed to confesse that his Masse whatsoeuer substance it bear it is void both of good order and also of congruence Harding The .73 vntruth I confesse no such thing Dering You séeme to confesse it â–ª sayth M. Iuel Whether you doe or no let your words witnesse You say you are not bound to folow Christes example in order and congruence Nowe we may infer Christes order is only good therefore you folow no good order or congruence This is but a single vntruth The B. of Saris. The matter being so weightie and not yet throughly beleued c. Harding The .74 vntruth It hath bene beleued Dering When you proue this sure M. Iuel will subscribe you may make euery word in his booke as vntrue as this For he hath not one worde that soundeth towarde your religion if this may be noted for vntrue to say your Massing worshippings haue neuer bene throughly beleued you may note many moe vntruthes in this Replie For there is not one line that alloweth the Masse Read the next vntruthe The B. of Sarish The olde fathers call that the daily Sacrifice that Christ made once for all vpon the Crosse. Harding The .75 vntruthe The olde fathers call not the Sacrifice of the Crosse the daily Sacrifice Dering M. Iuel doth alleage Aug. secund Luc. serm 28. Ierom. in 1. Co. ca. 5. Germanus in Eccle. rerum theoria Irenae lib. 4. cap. 34. Tertul. aduer Iudaeos Amb. in 1. ad Tim. cap. 2. Examine the aucthorities and sée M. Hardings answere so thou shalt best iudge If I should enter into it it would require a long aunswere and nothing necessary What the Doctors wryte M. Iuel is thought to know as wel as M. Harding First reade and then iudge This is againe the .132 vntruthe And bicause we are againe fallen into mention of this Sacrifice which M. Harding said euen now hath bene throughly beleued let vs examine that vntruthe and trie if M. Harding be found true in his workmanship It hath bene throughly beleued saith he that the Priest doth offer vp to God the body and bloud of Christ vnbloudely in the remembraunce of that one bloudy Sacrifice of Christ. Reade of this in the Epistle the .31 leafe thou shalt haue it fully discussed only in this vntruth bicause the question lieth rather whether it hath bene beleued than whether the saying be true let vs a little consider of Christ him selfe his Apostles whether they haue beleued it First Christ in no one worde did giue vnto his Churche any commission of suche maner sacrifycing Christ saith often I giue vp my soule I Saâ—rifice my selfe no man doth it but I but vnto his Disciples he saith quo ego vado vos non potestis venire Whither I goe ye can not come By which wordes he taketh from them all power to Sacrifice him euen as it was afore tolde by Daniel that after Christ was once offred the Sacrifice and the Oblation should cease Not a word written wherby it may be gathered that we may offer vp Christ. And doth M. Harding thinke that in so weightie a matter as the remission of our sinnes that any thing is required of vs which is not commaunded vs It appeareth then in the time of Christ this was not beleued Did the Apostles beleue it after Christ S. Paule saith in that he died vnto sinne he died but once againe by one Oblation he made his perfite for euer and againe wher is remission of sinne there is no more sacrifice for sinne Then by S. Paule there is nowe no daily sacrifice for sinne except by Christes deathe we will that our sinnes be not forgiuen Againe S. Paule will haue vs folowe Christes example in the administration of Christes supper who teacheth vs of no Oblation for quicke and dead Againe the sacrifice cannot be made without a speciall priesthode but the Apostles doe teache vs that all suche Priesthode is abrogate If at any time the name of Oblation be mentioned in this age it is euer meant spiritually As is plaine Ro. 12. .16 Phil. 2. 1. Peter .2 for the real Sacrifice S. Peter is plain Christ hath caried our sinnes in his body vpon the woode and by his stripes we be healed and the effects of that one Sacrifice once made are purging of the sinnes of the whole world 1. Pe. 2. .3 1. Ioh. 2. 3. Ro. 4. Ephe. 1. eternall redemption Gal. 2. Ephe. 1. Rightuousnesse Ro. 3.4.8 2. Cor. 5. SaÌ„ctificatioÌ„ Eb. 10. Peace Ro. 5. Ioy of the spirite Ro. 4. Gal. 5. Newnesse of life Rom. 6. 1. Co 5. Loue of our neighboure 1. Ioh. 3. Eternall life 1. Ioh. 5. Ro. 6. then neither Christ nor his Apostles euer beleued it for the estate of the primatiue Churche how it beleued M. Harding hath nothing to say but referreth vs to the .xvij. Article of his former booke héere good Reader my labor is wel eased for séeing my Lord of Sarisburie hath answered al that matter who so wil be confirmed in that truthe he can
the scripture that on a day when the Disciples came together to break bread Paule disputed among them and prolonged his talke vntil midnight Of this if I shold conclude that they came in the after none M. Harding perhaps would say it were but a gesse therefore I leaue it S. Paule writeth to the Corinthians if any man be hungry let him eat at home Therfore it foloweth necessarily that they may receiue after other meate and if it be so M. Harding him selfe will graunt they might receiue at night vnlesse as he doth in the .8 diuisiō so here he will deny that this place is meant of the Communion and if he doe the Doctors are then against him S. Augustine shall stand in stead of many who saith plainly de hoc ipso sacramento loquitur He speaketh of this very sacrament Now this being lawfull to be done and the Churche of God being so oppressed could not méete when they wold no doubt sometime they met at night And further that this may be no bare gesse that some receiued at night It appeareth by S. Luke where he writeth that they did continue in the Doctrine of the Apostles and in breaking bread and that continuaunce in the same Chapter he mentioneth againe by these wordes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which words signify a continuāce from morning till night and by this aboue all coniecture it is manifest they receiued sometimes at night Then except M. Harding wil vse héere his former distinction of the Thursday before Easter and say that quotidie is euery Maundie thursday it is true that M. Iuel saithe that sometime they receiued at night Now that some parte of the vse of the primatiue church may appeare to agrée with this doing of the Apostles we will a little examine their doings S. Basil writeth that they were accustomed at the dedication of Temples to méete at midnight but at the same assemblies they may well séeme to haue ministred the Communion and therfore at after supper We reade the same of Athanasius that he did vsually gather together the Christian congregation at Alexandria in the night time And of this night méeting in all the congregations that were in Europe Lactantius maketh expresse mention Ierom maketh mention of the same in his Epistle to Sabinjanus and against Vigilantius And that these meetings were in the foreparte of the night it may appeare for that they had commonly other méetings in the morning which they called Antelucanos coetus the morning assemblies And yet if M. Harding wold sticke in it I may refuse all these and many suche aucthorities And for the iustifying of these vntruthes stand to the plaine wordes of Sozomene who writeth that in many Cities and Townes among the Egiptians they had their méetings on Saterday at night and in like plaine woords Primasius saith that in certaine places of Syria and Egipt men came together on Saterday night and that after Now I trust though the Thursday before Easter with maister Harding be no time yet all these saterdayes ioyned with it I trust do make sometimes Here is nothing can be replied but if M. Harding wil say that in suche méetings they did not minister the sacrament And if he wil say so may it please him then to héere what Eusebius saith that in suche méetings they had Orationes Psalmodiam participationem de mysterijs c. They had prayers singing psalmes the Communion c. And S. Augustine saith they did celebrate Dominicam coenam the Lords supper but except M. Harding haue some distinction in store which yet now he hath not told vs of we shall not néede greatly to proue this matter in the .182 vntruthe where M. Iuel alleageth the coūcel of Cabilon to proue that Masse doth sometime signifie common prayer bicause there it is recorded that they had Masse at euening circa noctis initium about the beginning of night there M. Harding maketh this answere why sir thinke you that Missa is taken for any kinde of prayer bicause in that place it is required to be done in y e euening As though the Masse might not at any time be celebrate but only before noone if you so thinke you are deceiued c. and there fully he concludeth that sometime it was said at night naming both maundy thursday and other times also Then I trust this vntruth is iustified expresly by sundry other aucthorities and probably by M. Hardings owne He telleth vs in déede that though it were at night yet it was not after supper nor yet dinner but that saying resteth vpon M. Hardings credit which to proue an vntruthe wayeth ouer light The B. of Saris. In the primatiue Church this order was thought expedient not for the sicke for they in their health receiued daily Harding The .82 vntruthe It was for the sicke The .83 vntruthe They receiued not daily Dering If I went about to aunswere M. Hardings Reioinder in this one Paragraph through lying and fonde speaking he hath ministred sufficient matter to fill many leaues But I leaue that to the godly Reader to consider For this present purpose thus saith master Iuel the receit of the Cōmunion when men lay on their death bed was instituted in the primatiue Churche especially not for the sicke but for them that were excommunicate This saying M. Harding dothe turne as if M. Iuel said that it was not expedient for the sick to receiue and so maketh that vntrue which in déede is vntrue and neuer spoken by M. Iuel But without such shifts master Hardings number of vntruthes could not grow For maister Iuels saying that this receiuing was especially for the excommunicate it may be sufficiently proued And M. Harding in his Reioinder saith nothing to the contrary for this vntruthe bicause M. Iuel saith no such thing Let it stande as a slaunder not worthy aunswere An other vntruthe héere is brought that the people receiued not daily and M. Harding hath such a confidence in this vntruthe that he is not contented with once noting it but as his manner is in many other vntruthes when his number commeth slowly forward he reconeth up one .4 or .5 times so he vseth this and maketh it the 83.133.145.156.213 vntruthe Now bicause it is so often reckened by like it standeth vpon some good ground Reade the .133 vntruthe and thou séest what it is The B. of Saris. At last it grew to suche superstition that it was thruste into mennes mouthes after they were deade as we may see by the councell of Carthage forbidding the same Harding The .84 vntruthe It was not thrust in their mouthes The .85 vntruthe It is not to be seene Dering What meaneth M. Harding would he haue children witnesses of his foly The wordes of the Councel are these Item placuit vt mortuis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non detur It hath likewise pleased vs that the Sacrament be not giuen vnto deade
vntruthe Then thus hang these vntruthes If this last be true that the Gréeke Church dothe consecrate with prayers the thirde is true that it intendeth not Transubstantiation And the second is true that it hath no suche intent as the Church of Rome hath and the first is true that these churches are not resolued in this intent Now consider I beséeche thée good Reader what manner of vntruthes these are that notwithstanding their great number are yet so smal in value that if but one be proued true all .iiij. must be graūted Sure thou must néedes confesse that M. Harding who in his Epistle would so faine shoote at hobs and rouers yet at this marke he hath had so good deliuery that he hathe farre ouershot him selfe and his whole commendation is no more worthe than that praise in Horace of a babling Poete qui variare potest rem prodigialiter vnam which cā turne a true sentence into a great many lies For proofe of this last vntruthe on which the other hang we haue the plaine wordes of the Councel of Florence alleaged by M. Iuel where it is shewed that in the Gréekes mynisterie after the words of Christ pronounced this is my body they make this prayer fac panem hunc honorabile corpus Christi tui c. make this breade the honourable body of thy Christ. By this prayer it is manifest that these wordes this is my body being pronounced before did not worke Transubstantiation But bicause it hath pleased M. Harding in to great a zeale of his number to score vp vntruthes thus vnwisely least his friends should thinke the matter vnsufficiently answered we wil say somwhat of them in order euen as M. Harding noteth them and I doubt not but to the indifferent reader they shall one of them sufficiently confute an other First saith M. Harding the Church is resolued on the Priests entent But that is very false For the Gréeke Church and the Church of Rome haue not one intēt The Greke Church as is said doth consecrate with prayers The Church of Rome with hoc est enim corpus meum The Gréeke Church maketh more accompte of the worthy receiuing than of Consecration The Churche of Rome thinketh we ought to haue more regarde of Consecration than of the worthy receiuing I leaue out other differences which are almost infinite This is inough to proue our purpose Secondarily saithe M. Harding the Church of Rome entendeth not Transubstantiation What he entended in this vntruthe I know not For my parte wold God M. Iuel said héere vntrue and that that Romish Church would leaue of that presumptuous entent Thirdly saith M. Harding the Gréeke Church meaneth transubstantiation And this is very straunge for a learned man to speake suche repugnances First y t the church of Rome intendeth not transubstantiation Againe that the Gréeke Church doth intend transubstantiation And thirdly y t they two intende one thing when M. Harding with all his wrangling can make these vntruthes agrée sure we wil subscribe Now resteth a little to be considered of the Councel of Florence whether it may appeare by it that the Churche of the Grecians acknowledge no transubstantiation Thus it stoode When the Latines in that assembly required that they might entreate of transubstantiation The Grekes made answere sine totius orientalis ecclesiae authoritate quaestionem aliam tractare non possimus without the consent of all the East Church we can meddle with no other question c. Héere be the Reader neuer so simple he must thinke thus muche If this article of transubstantiation were so Catholike as they will make vs beleue how commeth it to be called so ofte in controuersie in generall Councell And againe if the Grecians did accompte it as Catholike and were resolued in it what meant they that they would not subscribe to so highe a point of Christian religion sure this was their meaning they knew this transubstantiation was but a Romish deuise and therefore they would ▪ not yelde vnto it And thus muche of these hasty vntruthes The B. of Saris. The .13 Diuision But if Cyril neuer spake word of the Masse how is he heere brought in to proue the Masse Harding The .101 vntruthe Cyril is not brought to proue the Masse Dering But he should proue priuate Masse or else what maketh he héere For of that the question is moued And this is a very hard case that M. Harding must lose his vntruthe or else confesse he speaketh not to the purpose The B. of Saris. Neither may we thinke that Christes body must grossely and bodily be receiued into our bodies Harding The .102 vntruthe We must beleue it Dering As maister Harding hath forsaken Gods Religion and is fallen againe to Poperie so it séemeth also he hath forsaken his learning and beginneth to make vntruthes with his follie This is one of the chiefest articles for which we haue forsaken their vnfaithfull Churche As ofte as we repeate this we conclude the thing which lieth in controuersie betwene vs. This is our professed opinion and vpon the trial of it by good and sufficient aucthoritie if it be proued against vs Maister Iuel is ready to subscribe Then what meaneth maister Harding Or what maner of vntruthe is this Or who can accompte it for true and plaine dealing when vpon good ground we shewe forthe our opinion and he scoreth vp the question for an vntruthe He shal doe well to reproue it before he make anymoe vntruthes of this Reade the .104 vntruthe The B. of Saris. S. Cyprian saith it is meate not for the belly but for the minde Harding The .103 vntruthe S. Cyprian saith not so Dering If M. Harding and his Popishe felowes had falsified the Doctors no otherwise than M. Iuel héere falsifieth S. Cyprian then in a little chaunge of words we should haue had their meaning faithfully deliuered vnto vs and bastard bokes such as they knew not had neuer bene ascribed vnto them But thanks be to God who hath now lightned vs least suche vngodly writings vnder godly names should deceiue vs as touching this vntruthe I graunt the words are not in that treatise entituled de coena domini But whether the author say the same thing in sense let him selfe witnesse M. Iuel alleaging no Latine words but folowing the sense saith thus it is meat not for the belly but for the minde The wordes in Cyprian are these Sicut panis communis quem quotidie edimus vita est corporis ita panis iste supersubstantialis vita est animae sanitas mentis As the common bread which we eate daily is the life of the body so this bread supersubstantiall is the life of the soule and the health of the minde and what is héere falsified by M. Iuel Or what is worthy blame in this allegation Yet M. Harding taketh this smal occasion to finde fault with his printed sermon with his replie and with them that as he saith
patched togither the Apologie For the printed sermon it is well confirmed by the Replie and the Replie is not yet found blameable notwithstanding this Reioinder the Apologie that he liketh to terme patched now after the time that God had apointed it doeth not want my defence the booke is pretious and is defended by suche a Iuell that all the treasuries in the world God make him thankful wil not buy his gifts therfore M. Hardings words cā not hurt him The B. of Sarisb Christ is set forth not to be receiued with the mouth for that as Cyrill saith were a grosse imagination Harding The .104 vntruthe Christ must be receiued with the mouth The .105 vntruthe Cyrill saith not so Dering This is one with the .102 vntruthe Master Hardings transubstantiation standeth him in very good stead to multiply his vntruthes And yet if he had well considered it it had not bene worth his doubling I haue spoken somewhat héereof in the Epistle Concerning this other vntruth M. Harding saith he knoweth not what he graunteth These are Cyrillus wordes but he gesseth at an other sense and vpon that surmise quoteth a new vntruthe Dothe he claime so muche to his owne vnderstanding that if he say it it must be so though y e words be contrary Before we build of his saying it shalbe néedeful for him to win some better credite Sée the place thou wilt beare witnesse that it is truely alleaged The B. of Saris. The .14 Diuision For the partie excommunicate being a priest might say he wold say Masse and so receiue the Communion euen with the bishop of whome he were excommunicate Harding The .106 vntruthe The Priest excommunicate might not say Masse lawfully Dering No sure whether he were excommunicate or no he might not say it lawfully neither by Gods law nor his holy Euangelies when M. Iuel saith this I will subscribe The B. of Sarisb Now if M. Hardings principle stand for good that the priest saying his priuate Masse may receiue the Communion with all others in other places c. Harding The .107 vntruthe I say not he may receiue with others Dering M. Harding is past shame wold God as I haue said often he were not past grace if these be not his words Therefore that one may Communicate with an other though they be not togither in one place it may be proued by good authoritie then will I subscribe if they be his words then iudge thou of his doing The B. of Saris. Heere marke good Christian reader then they Communicated saith Irenaeus when they met in the Church Harding The .108 vntruthe Irenaeus saith not so reade it againe and marke it better Dering These are Irenaeus words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 These words if as M. Harding requesteth we reade them againe and marke them better then no doubt they are thus in English These things being thus they Communicated together and in the Churche Anicetus gaue to Polycarpus the Eucharist Héere saith M. Iuel by this it appeareth they communicated when they met in y e church That is not so saithe M. Hard. Read it once again marke it better If often reading and better marking may serue the turne then gentle reader I craue also thy labour read it yet once againe and marke it better Yea read it while thou wilt and marke it how thou canst if this fansie of M. Hardings do but once come in thy minde I may boldely make thée this large offer let these all be vntruthes His fansie is so full of foly his imagination so vaine his interpretation so childish that if thou of thy self cāst finde it out I say as I said before let all these vntruthes stande Reade it I beséeche thée once againe and marke it better Is not this a straunge vntruthe that no mā can espie it but M. Harding But sith it is so that héere can be no vntruthe without M. Hardings good instruction let vs aske of him how it may be falsified He telleth vs of two faults the first in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they communicated the seconde in Englishing Eucharistia the sacrament Mary saith he yet I will define nothing that is I will stande to neither of them Is not this a straunge dealing that he wil first finde fault then will not bide by it and yet notwithstanding wil score vp his vntruthe If this vntruthe be vntruthe why will he not abide by it Or if he will not abide by it why doth he say it is vntrue must his priuate Masse his halfe communion his outlandishe prayers his Popes supremacie yea his vntruthes and all be proued by paraduenture But let it be so what is it at the last that héere may chance be false this it is in the first fault about communion peraduenture forsoth they communicated before they met This blinde peraduenture wer it in Cambridge or Oxford no doubt it wold be hissed out of the scholes The second fault found in translating Eucharistia y e sacrament is this peraduenture Eucharistia here doth signifie sacerdotale mynisterium the priestly office Now sure good reader this is a straunge aduenture Eucharistia the priests office Fie on such a chance except a man had a priuiledge to make words sound what him listed No mā I trow wold haue made this aduenture But héere I must desire the reader to loke a little back to take the better view of M. Hardings dealing in the Epistle where M. Harding sporteth him self with his good artillerie he saith he could neuer shote at this mark that Eucharistia might be taken not for the Sacrament but for cōmon bread Now either by meanes of lighter arowes or a better loose he shootes a great way beyōd it saith with a good countenance y ◠Eucharistia is no bread at al but y e priests office Sure this is very vncertain shooting and can neuer stand with a good archer A man may shoote long at the Etymologie of y e word ere he bring it to this significatiō Though he haue determined to say little truely yet he shold haue taken héede how he had spoken so vnwisely That other tragicall exclamation that Eucharistia must be taken simply for bread consecrate bewrayeth this close dealing that it may be taken for the Priestes office And héere againe for a good note of M. Hardings fals dealing we haue to mark that in this place where M. Iuell sayth Eucharistia may be taken for common bread but yet apointed for the Communion M. Harding doeth not quote it for an vntruthe yet in the Epistle he noted it for a great heresie And why doeth he thus As it may be thought bicause he foresawe that to deny the Eucharist at any time to note bread not yet consecrate were a great preiudice to his grosse distinction that it might signifie the Priests office and therefore for the better conueyaunce of this absurditie he wold not quote that an vntruth which he had so greatly impugned before
God was offended with the same Harding The .119 vntruthe God was not offended with keping the sacrament but with the presumption of the woman which opened the cheast with vnworthy handes Dering M. Iuel sheweth out of Nicephorus that by like examples it may appeare God was offended with that reseruing of the Sacrament M. Harding without reason without aucthoritie without example of Gods word dothe boldely pronounce vpon Gods meaning and saith the example was shewed bicause she opened hir cheast with vnworthy hands Suche pronouncing of Gods doing should be grounded in Gods scriptures or else suche noting of vntruthes are rash and wicked I graunt it is in S. Cyprian cum manibus indignis tentasset aperire when she assayed to open it with vnworthy handes But whether for hir vnworthinesse God sheweth y e miracle that M. Harding addeth of his owne But what if Cyprian had said this we must not therfore haue beleued it He was a good member of the Churche of God but yet he was a man sometime deceiued He taught that Christ made satisfaction for original sinne only yet we know that was a wicked opinion He wryteth that it was in his time .6000 yeares sith the Deuill did assault man which is a grose error And in some places he thought not reuerently of the Maiestie of the holy Ghost God forbid we should yelde to any thing what so euer a good man doeth write But it is well in this place Cyprian saith no suche thing as M. Harding wold haue him and therfore his rashe vntruthe is not yet proued But to proue the contrary and that M. Iuel saith true we haue the aucthoritie of many Our sauior Christ bad doe that which he did in his remembraunce But he said vnto his disciples take and eate he said not lay vp in your chests And so Cyprian him selfe if it be Cyprian saith likewise recipitur non includitur the Sacrament is receiued it is not shut vp So likewise sayth Origen panis quem dominus dedit discipulis suis iussit accipi manducari non differri aut seruari in crastinum The bread which the Lord God gaue to his Disciples he bad them take it and eate it He bad them not defer it and kepe it till to morow Thus we sée M. Iuels saying may be sufficiently proued and maister Hardings bolde vntruthe is without any reason The B. of Sarisb The thing which our bodily mouthe receiueth is very breade Both the scriptures and also the olde Catholike fathers put it out of doubt Harding The .120 vntruthe It is the very body of Christ. The .121 vntruthe The holy fathers say not that the substāce of bread remaineth Dering This first vntruthe is all one with the .74 the .102 the 104. But suche must be had or how shal vntruthes rise Yet reason wold as I haue said that he shold proue his transubstanciation before he quote so fast these vntruthes Concerning this other vntruthe though it be one with this former and is now .v. times repeated that no wise man would thinke well of maister Hardings doing yet bicause he is so well pleased with it through his importunitie I must néedes say somewhat bothe for trial of his truthe and satisfying the christian reader First our sauiour Christ after consecration calleth it the fruit of the vine and a testament S. Paule v. times breade and the table of the Lord S. Luke calleth the whole Communion the breaking of bread Theodoretus an auncient father saithe Qui se ipsum appellauit vitem illa Symbola signa quae videntur appellatione corporis sanguinis honorauit naturam non mutans sed naturae adijcit gratiam He that called himselfe a vine did vouchsafe to honor those tokens and signes which are séene with the name of his owne body not chaunging their natures but ioyning grace vnto it And againe he saythe signa mystica post sanctificationem non recedunt a natura sua sed manent in priori substātia The mysticall signes after sanctification doe not goe from their owne nature but kepe the same substance that they had before that denyeth transubstantiation Gelasius saithe non desinit esse substantia vel natura panis vini the substaunce or nature of bread and wine ceaseth not Vigilius saithe of Christes humanitie quando in terra fuit non erat vtique in caelo nunc quia in caelo est non est vtique in terra when he was on earthe he was not in heauen now he is in heauen he is not therefore in earthe and in his first boke against Eutiches he likewise saith abstulit de hoc mundo naturam quam susceperat a nobis he hath taken from the worlde that nature which he receiued of vs. Chrysostome saithe natura panis in sacramento remanet The nature of breade abideth in the Sacrament Augustine saythe quod videtis panis est that which you sée is breade Origen saith Non materia panis sed super illum dictus sermo est qui prodest Not the matter of bread but the worde which is spoken ouer it dothe helpe Cyril sayth Christus credentibus discipulis fragmenta panis dedit Christ gaue vnto his beleuing disciples the breakings of bread Irenaeus saith Eucharistia ex duabus naturis constat terrena caelesti the Eucharist consisteth of two natures the one earthly which is breade the other heauenly which is by faith the féeding of our soules with the body of Christ. Reade maister Iuels bookes thou shalt sée suche other aucthorities in great number Thus thou séest Christian reader that the Doctors beare witnesse there is the nature of bread in the sacrament when M. Harding is able to answer these or bring any for himself then let the vntruthe stand The B. of Saris. The .18 Diuision This sole receiuing was an abuse and therfore abolished Harding The .122 vntruthe Sole receiuing in the time of persecution was no abuse Dering Héere M. Harding doeth fréely graunt that sole receiuing is an abuse whē the people may freely resort vnto the church Where is then the priuate Masse of our time This vntruth though it be worthe no answere yet for want of better it was once noted afore The B. of Saris. In M. Hardings Masse the whole people eateth by the mouthe of the priest Harding The .123 vntruthe They eate not by the mouthe of the priest as M. Iuel meaneth Dering M. Harding is driuen to narowe straightes that maketh suche raw vntruths with so many vnripe distinctions In the former vntruthe he putteth in in the time of persecution In this vntruthe as M. Iuel meaneth His helping hande must come to or there is no vntruth to be found This is M. Hard. plaine doctrine the people doe receiue by the mouthe of the priest If he can make two senses of these words his doubtful speaking is full of deceitfull meaning But this is too shamelesse wrangling No man in the world
vnto vs. And he that knoweth God heareth vs and the worde whereby the righteousnesse of God is knowne is the word of faith which we preache And plainly S. Paule calleth it the word of reconciliation And the Gospell is the power of God vnto saluation to al them that beleue And Peter witnesseth that the Gospell is preached to the ende men might liue vnto God and Christ sanctified his Churche by the washing of water throughe the worde Not one place in the scripture that we be sanctified by priuate Masse or daily sacrifice But let vs let these sacrificers alone They be blinde leaders of the blinde Read more of this in the epistle and in the .75 vntruthe The B. of Saris. The .26 Diuision S. Augustine saith the people receiued euery day Harding The .133 vntruthe He saith not so Dering Note this is all one vntruthe with the .83 and .145 These are S. Augustines words the daily bread may be taken for the sacrifice of Christes body which we receiue euery day Maister Harding saith he ment this of himselfe only and of other priests and he saith it only and doeth not proue it and vpon credite of his owne words doth quote an vntruthe With like facilitie I could make answer it were not vntrue but words without reason I will leaue vnto maister Harding to proue that S. Augustine ment the daily vse of their open Churche and that some did euermore receiue it may appeare as we reade in the Acts that those which came vnto the Church of Christ continued daily in breaking of bread and prayers by breaking of bread meaning the Communion And in an other place when the Disciples came together they brake breade and Paule preached And we reade in the .1 to the Corinthians the .11 Chapter When they came together they did eate the Lords supper Héereby it appeareth that in the Apostles time this daily receiuing was in vse though of Massing for the quicke and deade of shutting the bread in a boxe of worshipping it of carying about there be not one worde immediatly after c. About .200 yeares after this Tertullian wryteth Eucharistia sacramētum c. iam antelucanis sumimus temporibus We receiue the Eucharist euer before day And in an other place thy husband shall not know what thou tastest secretely before other meates By this it appeareth the Christians did vsually receiue euery morning S. Cyprian about 50. yeares after wryteth How shall we make them méete for the cuppe of martyrdom if first we do not giue vnto them the cup of the Lords bloud noting that in that great persecution they receiued daily in the morning Againe he wryteth Grauior nūc ferocior pugna imminet ad quam fide incorrupta virtute robusta parare se debent milites Christi And it foloweth Considering therefore they daily receiue the cup of the bloud of Christ they also for Christ may shed their bloud He saith further we require that this bread may be giuen vs daily least we that are in Christ Eucharistiam quotidie ad cibum salutis accipimus and daily receiue the Eucharist which is the meate of our saluation should be by any great offence seperated from Christ. Thus it appeareth in plaine wordes that in Cyprians time they receiued daily The like appeareth by Eusebius lib. 1. de demonst Euangelica cap. 10. Diuers other places may be brought which all proue M. Hardings aunswer to be vaine and doe wel expound the meaning of S. Augustine Chrysostome saith semper communicabant they did alwayes Communicate And maister Harding doeth alleage bothe him and Augustine himselfe for proofe of the daily sacrifice Now wher they say that we offer daily and yet confute sufficiently this newe fansied transubstantiation it is plaine they ment of this daily Communion and of the often vse of it maister Hardings Ignatius in like manner wryteth when this is done continually the powers of Sathan are driuen away These and diuers suche proofes may be had out of Ierome Ambrose Iustine Irenaeus and other many for this daily receiuing and therfore these vntruthes must néedes be little worthe that are so plentifully challenged and may so easily be answeared But whose aucthoritie should I rather vse in this case than maister Hardings owne Doctors they wryte it often and teache very plainly that in the primatiue Church they receiued daily Thomas Aquinas writeth thus In the primatiue church when the people were very deuout in the Christian faith it was decréed vt fideles quotidie communicarent that the faithfull people should receiue daily Durandus saith in the primatiue Church omnes fideles quotidie communicabant all the faithfull receiued daily Loe héere are maister Hardings owne Doctors which doe sufficiently answere his vntruth Here by the way of this one thing I must moreouer warne the good Christian reader that M. Harding is not able to shewe any one sufficient proofe whereby it may appeare that the Churche in any place within CCC yeares after Christ did appoint any one day especially for that purpose as their confederacie at Trident haue of late straightly charged It appeareth by S. Luke they met daily and it appeareth by Paule to the Ephesians y t they had their méetings both day and night in this vse they cōfirmed their doctrine which Paule teacheth the Colossians Let no man condemne you in meat and drinke nor in respect of an holy day or of the newe Moone or of the Sabbothe dayes And no doubt to take away this popish superstitiō of dayes times it was gods good wil and pleasure then so to ordaine it And for a ful proofe that the Churches vsed some saturday some sunday it is well shewed by that hot contention that was raised by Victor Anicetus against y e gréeke church After y e Apostles time about the yeare of our Lord .115 vnder y e Emperor Traiane it appeareth that the Christians vsuall méeting was in the mornings as is shewed by Plinie in an epistle written to the Emperoure of the same matter After this .30 or .40 yeare Iustinus doeth recorde that in his time they vsed the sonday and any other day when there was baptizing of children After this it is declared by Origen that the Christians of his time did not méete only on sundayes and holidayes but on other dayes also And Sozomene séemeth to deny of the Romaine Church that they had any meetings on the Saboth day as all other Churches had Eusebius saith quotidie ferme ad percipiendam disciplinam christi constuunt almost euery day they came to hear the doctrine of Christ. Athanasius nameth expresly these dayes sabbatum diem dominicum secundum sabbati parasceuen quartum sabbati Now if it can not be proued that any one Church made a special obseruation of the sunday but that on other dayes also they vsed like seruice vnto god
vntruth Solennia doeth not import a solemne companie Dering Yet it séemeth so Maister Harding to as wel learned as you are But this is your common fashion to belie Maister Iuels words and then to say they be vntrue Yt séemeth saith he to import a solemne coÌ„panie What if it be not so yet it séemeth so But what if it doe import a great companie What if it can not stande with your priuate Masse Sure then is Soters decrée not worth alleaging as your vntruthe is not worth the quoting The reason that you bring out of Tullie were it not in your booke yet by the value I would gesse it yours Solemne say you doeth signifie sometime a custome Ergo when it is attributed to an action it doeth not import a companie This is verie like one of your owne arguments it hangeth so losely For the antecedent is false and the argument doth not follow But why speaketh Maister Harding against his owne knowledge he is assured it is not named in matters of religion but it signifieth a great company of persons and muche sumptuousnesse of the things so ill may his priuate Masse be solennis Mos solennis sacrarum saith Lucretius the solempne and sumptuous manner of the sacrifices And Virgil calleth them arae solennes many and costly altares so pompae solennes burials in solemne order vota solennia vowes made solemnly in the company of many and Tullie Solenne statutum sacrificium a sacrifice done sumptuously and appointed times and in M. Hardings Portuise sacris solennijs iuncta sunt gaudia to solemne seruice there is annexed ioyes This aucthoritie is sufficient against master Harding He wil say nothing I trow against his Portuise If he wil we will then charge him with the Popes owne aucthoritie Innocentius tertius shewing the cause why in their single holydayes they say not the Créede nor Gloria in excelsis as wel as they do on their double feasts wryteth thus vt inter commemorationem solennitatem differentiam ostendatur that there may be a difference betwéene a commemoration and a solemnitie Loe héere is Pope Innocent flat against maister Harding concerning the nature of the word and yet he is content to speake euen as Soter doth and say of the other Masses missarum solennia Thus we sée these vntruthes sometime can not agrée nether with their holy father the Pope neither yet with the Portuise The B. of Saris. Soter requireth to this action only the company of three Harding The .147 vntruthe He requireth not .iij. but .ij. at the least Dering Note good reader this vntruthe is now twise made in the 144. vntruthe and againe here Yet if thou way it well thou shalt sée it was not worth repetition In the other place the sense was very obscure and here the words are very strauÌ„ge To make this solemne Masse saith M. Iuel iii. are required Not so saith M. Harding the priest requireth but two to make answere But what if it happen that these two haue a thirde priest to say the Masse Soter séemeth to meane so when he saith vt sit ipse tertius that the priest may be the thirde I can not tel all their misteries It may be they haue a custome that two may make answere when no man sayth the Masse Or if they haue not then this is not vntrue The B. of Saris. It may be doubted whether dominus vobiscum were parte of the Liturgie in Soters time Harding The .148 vntruthe This cannot be wel and reasonably doubted Dering If well and reasonably doe not helpe out this vntruthe it hathe then neither goodnesse nor shew of probabilitie Now what well and reasonably may doe in this matter it shall well and reasonably appeare if you marke Damasus woords he saith there was nothing red in the Churche on sundayes sauing some Epistle of the Apostle and some chapter of the Gospell If Damasus say true then it may be doubted bothe well and reasonably whether Dominus vobiscum were red or noe This saying of Damasus maister Iuel dothe alledge and vpon little searche it will easily appeare by all Ecclesiasticall recordes that in Soters time and many yeares after there was no other solemnitie in their ministration sauing reading or expounding the scriptures and some prayers which the whole congregation did make together some say that Peter vsed to celebrate with the Lordes prayer only Paule did preache vnto them as appeareth in the Actes Iustine speaking of the Communion in his time â–ª saith Post precationem nos salutamus osculo mutuo deinde affertur precipuo fratri panis caâ—ix aqua dilutus c. After our prayers we salute one an other with a kisse then the bread is brought to the chiefest brother and the cuppe of wine and water Then the mynister giueth thanks vnto God in the name of the Sonne and of the holy ghost and the whole people doe answere Amen And if these words are not yet plaine inough by which we may doubt whether Dominus vobiscum were then in the Liturgie Iustine saith againe Die solis vrbanorum rusticorum coetus fiunt vbi apostolorum prophetarumque litera quoad fieri potest preleguntur c. On sunday we haue our metings bothe of the towne and the countrey where the Apostâ—es and prophets wrytings are red vnto vs so long as time wil serue then our mynister dothe make an exâ—ortation willing vs to folow the vertue and goodnesse whereof we reade Then we rise altogether and make our prayers Lâ—e héere is a full description of the Communion in Iustinus Martyr who liued in Soters time And yet in all this not one word making mention of Dominus vobiscum yet is maister Harding so importune in his vntruthes that he dareth boldly affirme and yet hath no grounde that Dominus vobiscum was then parte of their seruice Let him shewe but one sufficient recorde for proofe of that he wryteth and let him haue his vntruthe I know our decretall Epistles would be of this age and they defile Gods sacraments as becommeth that adulterous generation But those epistles as I haue sufficiently already shewed are far vnworthy those godly fathers whose names they beare The B. of Saris. Further this same Soter requireth that bothe these two and as many others as be present make answere vnto the priest Harding The .149 vntruthe He requireth it not this is vtterly false Dering Note good reader maister Hardings impudencie and take héede of his lying spirite he saith very censoure like this is vtterly false and in his Reioinder raileth much at M. Iuel for falsifying the Doctours and yet most impudently he dothe vtterly belie him Read his booke he doth not bring one letter to proue that he saith Belike he is wel persuaded his friends wil beleue him if he doe but say the worde but to bring some proofe against maister Hardings bare word vpon these words of Soter let him haue two at the least to aunswere
it is plaine inough they shold be two of the clergie Now iudge whether maister Iuel may say thus the glose hath determined it As touching the allegation of these aucthorities out of maister Hardings Doctors séeing he dothe so vnwisely reprehend it bicause master Iuel alleageth their sayings yet aloweth not their religion May it please him to be answered as Tullie said to Antonie testimonium tuum quod in aliena re leue debet esse in tua tamen quia contra te est debet esse grauissimum this their witnesse which in an other matter were of no value yet in their owne bicause it is against thē selues it must néedes be very waightie This other vntruthe as touching Anacletus is like the residue vpon examination of the woords let the reader iudge Thus saith Anacletus Episcopus deo sacrificans testes secum habeat in solennioribus quippe diebus aut 7. aut 5. aut 3. diaconos c. By this it is shewed that at euery ministration he shold haue some of the clergie Now the glose of that other Decrée determining that those two should be of the clergie let the indifferent reader iudge whether it doeth agrée with this decrée of Anacletus and so he shall sée the better what maner of vntruthes these are The B. of Saris. M. Harding knoweth well that these decrees which are here rehersed could neuer be found written Harding The .154 vntruth I knovv it not Dering The councels are extant and the thing is plaine these decrées are not in them But saith Maister Harding peraduenture thrée hundred yeare a gone Gratian did sée them though they neuer came to our hands Now sure this is a straunge paraduenture Gratian liued 800. yeares after the councell was holden at Agatha and if those decrées had remained so long peraduenture they might haue bidden .300 yeares mo and so we should haue knowne of them But seing the matter is but at peraduenture at all aduentures let vs graunt it What troweth Maister Harding bicause that by gesse he proueth his priuate Masse therfore shall gesses be of value to make vntruthes He had néede shew better euidence that would take away Maister Iuels good name The B. of Saris. It is decreed that they which receiue not at Christmas Easter Whitsontide be accompted as no catholikes Then except a few massing priestes there is not one catholike in the church of Rome Harding The .155 vntruth This is a slaunderous lye Dering The councell holden at Agatha hath decréed thus the seculer men that receiue not the Communion at Christmasse Easter and Whitsuntide let them not be taken or reckned for catholike people Herevpon Maister Iuel saith if it be so in the holy church of Rome sauing a fewe Massing Priestes there is not one catholike The reason is For they receiue but euerie Easter and whether they haue vsed it or no let all the world witnesse I doe appeale herein to the conscience of the rankest papists whosoeuer they be let the vsage of that time be a triall whether they vsed then only to receiue or no. What holy fashions were then vsed aboue other times What shriuing What dispeling What curteine drawing What primerose gathering What cleckclacking What roode sweating What crossecreping What Iacke an apes walking from the altar to the idol house What wickednesse was there vsed againste that one time of their sinfull receiuing Who knoweth it not that this is true Yet saith Maister Harding it is a slanderous lye it is an impudent tale a false slaunder an impudent surmise a manifest vntruth such one as may be sene the nouice of him that is the father of lies If this may be beleued we sée how against all certain trueth he will spew out his venome But God haue the glory that hath giuen his children vertue against such poison For the vntruth I say as before let the world iudge The B. of Saris. I haue alreadie proued by Saint Augustine and Saint Ierome that Communion was ministred in Rome euerie day Harding The .155 vntruth This is proued by neither of them Dering Double on Maister Harding Your number shall grow the better This is now the fourth time that this vntruth is reconed that the thing is true I haue sufficiently declared before Now bicause the matter so falleth out that M. Iuel alleaging foure times these things of Augustine and Ierome M. Harding noteth them for foure vntruths I must craue of thée a litle to consider them Ieromes wordes are these I know this custome is at Rome that christian folke receiue the bodie of Christ dayly which I doe neither reproue nor alow These wordes it séemeth are méetely plaine Maister Harding aunswereth thus Héere mencion is made only of dayly receiuing but that they receiued together in one place that is not auouched If any man can sée any reason in this aūswere let the vntruth go Now as touching Augustine he sayth thus Christ by way of sacrament is offered euerie day vnto the people not at Easter only but euery day This authority bicause it is somewhat plaine Maister Harding skippeth it ouer and aunswereth not at all Augustine sayth againe the dayly bread may be takē pro sacramento corporis christi quod quotidie accipimus for the sacramēt of Christes bodie wich we receiue dayly To this authoritie Maister Harding doth aunswere thus Saint Augustine might meane that of him selfe and other Priestes or which is more likely he spake indefinitely of all beleuers Thus with might meane and more likely M. Harding would warrant this one vntruth to be .v. But he him selfe might meane more simply then it were more likely these vntruthes had ben fewer but let vs sée more S. Augustine saith againe many in the Easte doe not dayly cōmunicate Of this M. Iuel inferreth Therefore some in the Easte did cōmunicate dayly To this M. Harding aunswereth somewhat shamefully Of y e thing I contend not but yet M. Iuels argumēt is not good Marke good Reader M. Hard ▪ saith of y e thing he wil not cōtend yet he maketh v. vntruths of it But let this go S. Augustine saith againe the sacramēt of this thing is prepared or consecrate in the church Alicubi quotidie alicubi certis interuallis dierum somewhere euerie daye and somewhere but on certaine dayes To this Maister Harding aunswereth thus the sacrament in some places is prepared euerie daye by priestes and by the same priests is euery day receiued these are the proofes which Maister Iuel saith here that he hath brought Maister Harding noteth his vntruthe and sayth they proue it not whether they do or no. Now let the Reader iudge Except Maister Hardings aunsweres had ben better this vntruth needeth no longer iustifying The B. of Saris. Fabian saith we decree that euerie sondaie the oblation of the altar be made both of bread and wine as well by men as women Here besides that in these wordes
is included the receiuing of the Communion euerie sonday may be noted also by the way that by this authoritie of Fabian men and women made the sacrifice of the alter euen as S. Barnard saith Not onely the priest but also all the faithfull sacrifice do Harding The .157 vntruthe It is not included that they receiue euerie sunday The .158 vntruth Fabian doeth not attribute the making of the sacrifice to men and vvomen The .159 vntruth S. Barnard saith it not Dering This first vntruthe is that though they offred euerie sunday bread and wine yet it foloweth not that they receiued But this Maister Harding sayth onely and besyde gesses hath no sufficient proufe for it In fine thus he resolueth the matter This bread and wine was partly for the priest alone to receiue partly for the cleargie partly for the poore and partely to make holy bread of so this is become a verie beneficiall vntruth vnto Maister Harding it hath not onely encreased his number but it hath brought in an other article of his religion and that is at all a verie venture holy bread Here were good roome for one of Maister Hardings aunsweres this pelfe will not serue you must go séeke better stuffe The second vntruth here brought is this that men and women doe not make this sacrifice Fabians words are these Haec altaris oblatio ab omnibus viris et muâ—eribus fiat let this sacrifice of the alter be made of all men and women These words I trow are meetely plaine but Maister Harding aunswereth thus There is difference betwene an oblation and a sacrifice oblation is it when any thing is offered vnto the Lorde nothing done vnto it or in it A sacrifice is when a thing offred vnto God is by the priest altered by some thing don in it or vnto it for religion sake so the common people made the oblation of the alter but they made not the sacrifice of the alter It were to be wished good christian Reader that these distinctions were barred then we should haue lesse wrangling and fewer vntruths But they say all is well that endes well if by examination this distinction be founde good why should not Maister Harding vse it Theophilacte saith he Chrisostome and Paule him selfe haue so distinguished these words First though they hadde done so yet this were but a meane reason to proue they were in like sort vsed in Fabian The profe of Fabians meaning may not well be shewed but by Fabian him selfe But let vs sée what these Doctours saye on whome Maister Harding will â–ª grounde this distinction Theophilactus wordes are these Inter donum siue munus et hostiam siue victimam si exactam spectes rationem aliquid est discriminis quia victimae vel hostiae sunt per sanguineÌ„ et carnem oblationes vel quae per ignem sacrificantur dona sunt quaecunque alia incruenta et igni carentia Betwene 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is gifts and sacrifices this is the difference that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a sacrifice is an oblation made with fleshe and bloud or by fire 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a gift is that which is offred vnbloudie and without fire Of this place M. Harding doeth conclude that an oblation is a thing offered vnto God without any thing done vnto it but this argument hangeth as losely as any other commonly in M. Hardings booke A gift whereof Theophilacte speaketh is is in Greke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an oblation whereof M. Harding speaketh is in Gréeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So his reasoÌ„ hangeth thus A gift is that which without fire or bloud is offred vnto God as an oblation is that which hath nothing done vnto it This argument Christian Reader this is his owne reason neither better nor worse than he hath made it His second authoritie is out of Chrisostome his wordes likewise are these Oblatio erat quicquid extra sacrificium erat that was the oblation what so euer was beside the sacrifice and more than this he saith not now of these words how M. Hard. can frame his auÌ„swere to this authoritie of Fabian doutlesse no man that meaneth plainly can espie This is Chrisostomes meaning y â— dona were all those sacrifices or offerings prescribed saue onely such as were sinne offrings But M. Harding goeth further forâ—eth S. Paule as if of him he had learned his distinction how be it he neuer spake one word of it Yea the places by M. Hard â–ª alleaged do not so much as once name oblation then how doth he make this exacte difference of oblations Surely no authoritie had ben much better than these thrée nothing to the purpose In the meane season by M. Hardings good skil we may chaunge our coÌ„mon vse of speaking say no more burnt offring meate offring peace offring sin offering c. but rather thus burnt sacrifice meate sacrifice peace sacrifice sinne sacrifice so forth A proper distinction méete to interprete Fabian that coÌ„trolleth thus the phrase of the scripture Here foloweth yet an other vntruth that is about these words Non solus sacerdos sacrificat sed etiam totus conuentus fidelium Not only the priest sacrificeth but also all the companie of the faithfull This saith M. Harding is not true in M. Iuels sense For saith he that euery one of the people both men women in their own person do outwardly ministerially coÌ„secrate y e bodie bloud of Christ so offer make the sacrifice of the alter after the order of Melchisedech neither is it signified by the blessed martir S. Fabian neither was it euer before M. Iuels Replie came forth with such impudencie reported Better had it ben for M. Harding more credit for his vntruth if he had rested here y t M.I. named Bernard in stead of Guerricus For this report of M. Iuels meaning is nothing else but impudent folie For who would euer say that M. Iuels meaning is y e men and women sayd Masse such vntruth can be no better reproued than by shewing Maister Hardings proues The B. of Saris. But what if the verie words of these councels where vpon M. Harding hath found the Masse make manifest proofe against his Masse The words be these All secular christian folke be bound to receiue the communion at the least thrice in the yeare This relaxation or priuiledge is graunted onely to the secular christians whereof it foloweth necessarily that all ecclesiasticall persons as Priests Deacons Clerkes and others whatsoeuer of that sort were not excepted but stode still bounde to receiue orderly as they had done before and that was at all times whensoeuer there was any ministration Harding The .160 vntruth These be not the words of the councel The .161 vntruth This is no relaxation or priuiledge The .162 vntruth The ecclesiastical persons were not bound to receiue whensoeuer there was any ministration
they confute themselues these others are the most auntient of any credite And as they haue these and sundry other erroures so from age to age in all writers erroures did still growe great controuersies were betwene the Gréekes and Latine church The matter is too plaine it néedeth no further proofe and no doubt the spirite of God foreséeing these daungerous times that shold ensue when men should make Gods of those holy Fathers grounding their faithe on them as on the true foundation the holy Ghost I say did leaue them to their owne fansies and suffred them to erre to declare that they were but men and that we should builde no further on them than they did builde vpon Christ but examine all sayings bothe theirs and oures by the euerlasting woord of God the only lanterne vnto our féeâ—e and the onely light vnto our steppes which thing God for his Christes sake graunte vs euermore to doe Amen For this other translation post finem orationum after the prayer of consecration which is the 178. vntruthe it is as soone proued to be yll as maister Harding hath aduenturously sayde it is good He saith they are Orationes that are after Consecration and precationes which are before and for this distinction he alleageth S. Augustine Héere christian reader thou hast to note two things First the distinction then maister Hardings argument As touching the distinction that there are no Orationes till consecration is past that is very false the Masse booke it selfe hath Oremus I wote not howe many times before they are at their saccaring and I trow he that made the Masse booke knewe what was in the Masse Nowe for the argument sée how it hangeth This it is Prayers after consecration are called Orationes Ergo Post finem orationum is when consecration is done I may with as good a reason as that argue thus Pomeridianum tempus is the after noone Ergo Peracto pomeridiano tempore is immediatly after .xij. of the clocke This is euen such an other argument and master Hardings hangeth as losely as it Thus if we will graunt M. Harding all his proofes he will bothe make his Massebooke a lier and frame againe as euil argumeÌ„ts as he maketh in his answer The B. of Sarisb In these words cum benedixisset sancta there is no mention of any sacrament Harding The .179 vntruthe It is necessarily implied though not in precise words Dering Is not this a straunge kinde of dealing The word is not there saith M. Iuel that is vntrue saith maister Harding the meaning is necessarily implied What néede any answer to such vntruthes as haue nether shame nor vnderstanding Likewise the next vntruthe which is the .180 whether maister Harding call things that are not as though they are bicause it is once mentioned in the .177 vntruthe I recken it not here worth the touching The B. of Saris. I haue already proued by sundry aucthorities that Missa is often times vsed for any kinde of prayer c. and it further appeareth also by the councell of Cabilon Harding The .181 vntruthe It is not yet proued The .182 vntruthe It appeareth not by the councel of Cabilon Dering Maister Harding shall doe well to deny M. Iuels proofeâ— when he hath reproued them and till that be done he were best say nothing Men may not now be ledde with his bare woord What master Iuels proofes are let the Reply be iudge For the other vntruth about the councell of Cabilon maister Harding vseth a great deale of wraÌ„gling and litle learning For maister Iuel dothe alleage Gratians owne woords as he reporteth it out of the councell O saith maister Harding the councel hath it not If it be so then the vntruthe is Gratians and not master Iuels and so M. Harding falleth out with his friends But to cloke the matter againe where the words as Gratian reporteth them are auditis missarum solennibus vespertinis officijs He saith it is ment of the feast of the foure times wheÌ„ it was lawful to say Masse at night Those times were as I suppose the first wéeke of Marche the seconde of Iune the thirde of September and the fourth wéeke of December but these first times liked not Vrbanus therefore he turned them into the first wéeke of Lent and into Whitsuntide and so we had the spring fast the summer fast the haruest fast and the winter fast that by these .iiij. bookes or hingels of the world we might be taught euen as with the foure Euangelies bothe what to preache and what to doe Thus haue maister Hardings holy Popes pulled out of Goddes Churche Gods eternall gospels and made vs newe gospels of their owne and of those times saith maister Harding that decrée is ment at which times Masse might be sayde at night But yet as I remember in Lent we had not many Masses at night but in the forenoone we had Euensong and all least the Euening prayer should be to long Then if it be so what doe these fasts héere to make answer for their Masse notwithstanding suche obseruation of dayes and monthes and times yet Masse in this place must signifie common prayer and so this is no vntruthe Or Masse was celebrate at night and then what meaneth the .81 vntruthe Read it The B. of Saris. M. Harding seeketh for his Masse at Alexandria a thousand miles out of Christendome Harding The .183 vntruthe Alexandria is not a thousand miles out of Christendome Dering In the .171 vntruthe where maister Iuel saith about which time Mahomet spreade his religion in Arabia maister Harding quoteth his vntruthe and saith Mahomet was not about that time and yet he was at the vtmost within .xix. yeres of that time now almost .1000 yeres past And this is strange dealing that of things done .1000 yeares past within xix yeares compasse we may not say they were done about one time Yet as though maister Harding there had done very well he doeth againe the like in this place sayth he Alexandria is not a thousand mile out of Christendome and bicause he will appeare constant he maketh this againe the .218 vntruthe so little is he ashamed of his owne folly And nowe what skilleth it whether it be iust a thousande mile off or else want a mile or two of it Is maister Harding euer the neare his priuate Masse Yet take away two poore Ilands Cyprus and Creta a .1000 mile a sunder and either of them .500 miles from christendome And M. Harding cannot proue y t any part of Alexandria is not a .1000 mile from christendome then this exact computation of miles in so néedelesse a matter may rather argue wranglyng than proue an vntruthe The B. of Saris. In the Tripartite historie it is written thus Gregorie Nazianzene in a little Oratorie at Constantinople 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 made assemblies of people Harding The .184 vntruthe It is not written so Dering This curious inquisition about words which preiudice
could not see that in Chrysostome vvhich Chrysostome hath not Dering What M. Harding séeth only M. Harding knoweth But what a fonde vntruthe héere is quoted that I trow euery mā may witnesse Thus saith M. Iuel M. Harding séeth this is but a slender proofe master Harding saith he can not sée it in Chrysostome In déede that is true who saith it is in Chrysostome He was too well learned to make such lose argumēts I would faine heare of some of M. Hardings friends how he could excuse this vntruthe and what it meaneth The B. of Saris. M. Harding hath deuised a way how two priests saying their Masses in diuers countreis may yet Communicate together in breaking bread Harding The .214 vntruthe I doe not say they can communicate in breaking bread Dering This vntruthe was numbred once before Reade the .107 vntruthe There are M. Hardings plaine woords What he meaneth héere againe to recken this vntruthe saue onely for numbers sake no man I trow knoweth And yet how fondly and with what a blinde distinction he dothe it it shall not be a misse to tell thée He saith héere they doe not breake bread together But saith he they participate of one bread and communicate together be the distaunce betwéene them neuer so great This plain saying he hath in his Reioinder intermingled with a few other woords Read the place Now if maister Harding do thus vnderstand M. Iuel as if he ment that two priestes many miles a sunder might breake the same loafe that imagination is too grose and no wise man wil alow it If he meane any spirituall breaking then his owne words alowe the saying for good then this vntruthe proueth nothing against M. Iuel but reproueth M. Harding either of foly or else of falshoode The B. of Saris. Lay people wemen sicke folkes and boyes are brought in to proue his Masse Harding The .215 vntruthe They are not brought to proue the Masse Dering Maister Harding is very nigh at an ende his number is not yet ful Therfore being enforced to take vntruthes as he may he is lighted on suche a place as he could not light on a worse This vntruthe is reckened .v. times before the .87.101.126.128.129 and now the .215 It had bene requisite to haue ben better that should serue so many turnes The B. of Saris. Heere be brought in a company of petie Doctors all of doubtfull credite Harding The .216 vntruthe They be not of doubtfull credite Dering Now we be at the bottome of these vntruths M. Harding is faine to draw out dregges and all There was inough said before of Amphilochius and his fellowes and some of them M. Harding had quite turned and that he would neither defend them nor condemne them But now necessity doth make him breake his promise rather than he shold lose an vntruth they must be all of good credite againe They that list let them so accompt them The B. of Saris. This matter is made good by visions dreames and fables Harding The .217 vntruthe I proue it not by dreames Dering Héere saith M. Harding this tale of Amphilochius is neither dreame nor fable but it appeared vnto him good aucthoritie Yet he saith before that whether it be a vaine fable or a true story he wil not determine wel let this contrarietie goe Whether it be a fable or no iudge thou Here further as touching maister Hardings Philosophy in so exacte defining of dreames and visions bicause he taketh vpon him to control a better Philosopher than him self And in this word dreame wil haue the force of his vntruthe saying it was a vision and no dreame which S. Basil saw that distinction is more curious than learned for the two Gréeke woords 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is a dreame and a vision doe bothe signifie those things which be true vnlesse he wil say that a dreame dothe signifie more largely then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or somnium and yet if it doe a vision must néedes be a dreame though euery dreame be not a vision so this vntruthe by no meanes can be iustified The B. of Saris. He hath made searche for his Masse at Alexandria in Aegipt at Antioche in Syria at Caesarea in Cappadocia a thousande miles beyonde Chrystendome Harding The .218 vntruthe These cities are not a thousande miles beyond Christendome Dering This vntruthe was not worthe twise numbring Read the 183. vntruthe The B. of Saris. Bicause he had no hope to spede in townes he hathe sought out little churches in the countrey Harding The .219 vntruthe I haue proued that the Masse was celebrated in townes Dering This vntruthe is soone gathered but when M. Harding dothe proue it not only maister Iuel but all other that impugne their superstitious vanities will soone subscribe In the meane season he must not builde vp his vntruthes with suche sayings as we openly maintaine bothe in worde and wryting The B. of Saris. Likewise S. Paule willed one to waite for an other in the holy ministration Harding The .220 vntruthe These words are not ment of the ministration of the Sacrament Dering These words of S. Paule goe very nighe M. Hardings priuate Masse and therfore it behoueth him for his Masses sake to stande stiffely in it that they belong not vnto the ministration of the Lords supper For if they doe belong vnto it then no doubt M. Hardings Masse is a sinke of iniquitie that is so contrary vnto S. Paules woords Now for better discussing of this bicause in trying it this priuate Masse shall be better knowne let vs examine S. Paules woordes Thus he saithe Wherfore my brethren when ye come together to eate tary one for an other This saith M. Harding is to be vnderstand of certaine Churche feastes which they had called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and not of the Communion and as though this were not said with shame inoughe he saith in an other place that in that chapter S. Paule dothe not rebuke them for the manner of ministring this Sacrament but for their abusing of their church feasts Now for proofe of this interpretation he onely alleageth the bare names of Chrysostome and Theodoretus and this is al he can bring Read Reioinder fol. 306. Now let vs sée againe what on the other side may be said to proue that S. Paule meaneth of the ministration of the Sacrament And this we may sée bothe by the testimonie of all the old Doctors and most vndoubtedly by examination of the place it selfe Athanasius applieth all that place to the Communion in plaine woords Occumenius saith only the Lords supper is there spoken of and vpon this place inuicem expectate tary one for an other Thus he writeth Itaque Quamobrem Ne indigne corpus domini sanguinem participare probemini Therefore saith the Apostle Wherefore Least you should be proued to participate the Lordes body and bloud vnworthely By this Doctor he receiueth vnworthily that