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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A15508	Charity mistaken, with the want whereof, Catholickes are vniustly charged for affirming, as they do with grief, that Protestancy vnrepented destroies salvation.	Knott, Edward, 1582-1656.; Matthew, Tobie, Sir, 1577-1655, attributed author.; Potter, Christopher, 1591-1646.; Potter, Christopher, 1591-1646. Want of charitie justly charged.	1630 (1630)	STC 25774; ESTC S102197	54,556	140

extreamely confused what the Church of England in most things belieues so is it as true that they are very carefull that they be not too clearely vnderstood And therefore in many cōtrouersies whereof that booke speakes it comes not at all to the maine difficulty of the question betweene them and vs and especially in those of the Church and Free will For whereas there are two maine Controuersies concerning the Church namely whether the Catholicke Church of our Lord must not euer be visible to the eyes of men though at some times more gloriously then at others and whether the said Church be infallible in the definitiōs of Faith in both which points we hold the affirmatiue and they the negatiue they dare not declare in this publique manner what they hold therein And so also in that of Free Wil Art 10. they only affirme thereof in haec verba The condition of mā after the fall of Adam is such that he cannot turne prepare himselfe by his owne naturall strength good workes to faith calling vpō God wherfore we haue no power to do good workes pleasant and acceptable to God without the grace of God preuenting vs that we may haue a good will and working with vs whē we haue that goodwil Now this is true Catholick Doctrine which we belieue better them they But they declare not the while whether or no a man haue freedome of will to do a good worke or not to do it when first he is inspired and moued to it by God Almighties grace which we affirme they deny which is the only knott of our question the point vpō which so many other Catholicke Doctrines depend Soe also do they play at fast and ●oose when in the sixt Article of holy Scripture they enumerate al those books of the old Testament which they allow to be Canonicall wherein by the way they are rather Iewes then Christians for not admitting the bookes of Iudith the Machabees diuers others into the Canon And they trifle also when they tell vs that they vnderstand those only bookes both of the old and newe Testament to be Canonicall of whose authority there was neuer any doubt in the Church For they know as well as we that the Apocalips the Epistle of S. Iames S. Iude and one of S. Peters were not acknowledged till prooffes were made during the space of three or fower hundred yeares after Christ our Lord. And yet these mē haue beene pleased out of their great grace to admit them though the Machabees must be reiected because they speake of prayer for the dead But obserue in the meane time what this booke of Articles sayeth concerning the Canonicall bookes of the new Testament It saith only this All the bookes of new Testament as they are commonly receaued we doe receaue and account them for Canonicall But why doe they not particularly enumerate all the bookes which they acknowledge to be of the new Testament as they had done them of the old but only because they must so haue named those bookes of S. Iames and others for Canonicall which the Lutherans haue cast out of their Canon A mad peece of vnity God wot when these reformers of the Church according forsooth to Scripture if you will take their word cannot so much as agree about the very Canon it selfe of the Scripture But abstracting from all these insincerities wherewith that booke of Articles is full fraught they doe not so much as say that the Articles of Doctrine which they deliuer are fundamentall either all or halfe or any one thereof or that they are necessarily to be belieued by them or the contrary damnable if it be belieued by vs but they are glad to walke in a cloude for the reasons which haue beene already toucht Maister Rogers indeede in the Analysis which he makes of those nyne and thirty Articles speakes lowd inough by way of taxing the doctrine of the Church of Rome as being contrary to that of the Church of England and he giues it as many ill names as his impure spirit can deuise affirmes amongst other things that many Papists and namely the Franciscans blush not to affirme that S. Francis is the holy Ghost Fol. 23. And that Christ is the Sauiour of men but one Mother Iane is the Sauiour of woemen a most execrable of Postellus the Iesuit Fol. 14. with a great deale of such base trash as this And yet his booke is declared to haue beene pervsed and by the lawfull authority of the Church of England permitted to be publicke But yet euen Maister Rogers himselfe is not so valiant as to tell vs in particular which point of their Doctrine is fundamentall to saluation and which is not Much lesse is there any apparance that euer the Church of England should doe it since euen now we haue seene that it dares not in diuerse points soe much as declare in publicke manner that it professes the expresse contrary of what we held Nay we are not likely to see the fūdamental points of Faith whereof they talke so lowd to be auowed by so much as either of the Vniuersities yea or yet by any one Colledge or society of learned men amongst them And the reason of their reseruation in this kind is playne For if when they write ioyntly and in a body they should be conuinced of any absurdity or errour by the testimony either of the ancient Fathers on the one side or the Lutherans on the other their maine cause would receaue a mortall wounde because so their Church o● Vniuersities or Colledges would plainly appeare to be controlled and confuted eitheir by the Fathers or their fellow ghospellers whereas now when they speake or write but in the name or persons of particular men one of them will not thinke that himselfe or his cause is much preiudiced if any other of them be found guylty of errour and in such cases it is vsuall for them to say what care I if Doctour Morton say this or Doctour White say that and the like For this reason it is that I haue heard some Catholickes affirme and that to my thinking with great reason that they would hold it to be no ill worke for them if the pretended Colledge of Chelsy or any other were founded by Protestants expresly for writing bookes of controuersie by common consent But I belieue I shall not see them halt vpon that leg for feare least they should be found to be lame of both On the otherside at times they make eager inuectiues against vs for declaring so many yea and all the Doctrines of our Church to be Fundamentall so far forth as that whosoeuer refuses obstinatly to belieue any one of them doth forfette the saluation of his soule And in the strength of this zeale of theirs Doctour Dunne in a sermon made before his Maiesty at his first happy coming to this Crowne doth bitterly exclame against the Catholicke Romane Church as

since Moyses time which furnished vs with the first proofe that there must be vnity in Religion and obedience in the professours thereof that such as should obstinately trangresse were ordained to be put to a first death which might serue them for a Preface to their second destruction Which truth being once graunted I trust they will not take it ill at our hands if we hope well of our selues in our owne way and consequently if we conceaue that we haue no cause to hope well of them if they dy impeditent in theirs they haue no reason to be offēded with vs and the lesse since the Lutherans declare so expresly and resolutely that the Resolution of the Sacramentaries that is to say of our English Protestants is also damnable as hath been seene And this not only for the heresie which they hold in point of the Sacrament but for many others also as appeares by those authours of theirs whom I cited before So that still I see lesse and lesse colour why they should except against vs as if we wanted charity for saying that of them which when they list they not only take liberty to say of vs but euen of one another also and yet do not thinke that they offend Charitie therein As for vs we neither do nor can with any reason conceaue that they breake the lawe of charity towards vs supposing their owne Religion to be true in that they allow not saluation to vs if we dye in ours which consequently must be false And if ours be a false Religion as it must needes be if their Church be true and that we obstinately refuse to obay it we cannot be saued by the profession thereof And so therefore on the other side if ours be true as euen they must giue vs leaue to thinke it and as infallibly we belieue it to be theirs must then be no lesse false then ours is true Now supposing this on both sides it will not be want of Charity in either of vs both to hold and declare the others Religion to be incōpatible with saluation nay it will be want of Charity if we do it not For men are not so made for them selues as that they must not also procure to do their neighbours good and especially in that which most imports And besides the generall tye of one part of mankind to another whereof we are put in minde so many wayes the holy Scripture it selfe is often pointing vs out to our duty in this kind and most especially it doth in one passage of Ecclesiasticus lay a direct obligation vpon vs in these most binding words Cap. 17. Mandauit vnicuique Deus de proximo suo God hath laied a charge vpon euery man that he looke to his neighbour Which as it warrants not the busie or medling humour of any priuate man to intrude himselfe into the secret affaires of another nor obliges him so much as euen to the reprooffe of his knowne sinnes when he hath neither charge ouer that person nor hath hope of amendement by it and when it is not agreable otherwise to the circumstāces and rules of charity which ought to be conducted and carryed on by Christian prudence so yet on the otherside it layes not only a Counselle but a strict commandement not only vpon some one but vpon euery one not to omit opportunity whereby a man may prudently be in hope either to doe his neighbour any important good or else to diuert him from any thing which may doe him any considerable hurt Now if a priuate man must not only be excused if according to the rules of Christian piety and prudence he assist his neighbour in doing well and declaring the danger wherein he is if he doe otherwise but he shall not be excusable in the sight of God if he dischardge not this duty how much more highly shall the Church of Christ our Lord be both authorized and obliged to instruct Christians in the right way and to reduce such others as are in the wrong by making them vnderstand their danger of euerlasting damnation Nay we see by that which past betweene Almighty God and the Prophet Ezechiel that he was appointed to stand Centinell ouer the house of Israel and to heare Gods word out of his owne mouth and so to announce it to his people in his name and that God said thus to him Si dicente me ad impium c. Ezechiel cap. 3. If when I shall say to the wicked mā thou shalt dye the death thou declare it not to him nor aduise him to returne from his wicked way that he may liue that wicked man shall dy in his iniquity but I will require his blood at thy handes But if thou anounce it to him and that yet he will not returne from his sinne and from his wicked way that man indeed shall dye in his owne sinne but as for thee thou shalt haue freed thy soule from death Now therefore if a single Prophet being called to that office by Almighty God be obliged vnder the paine of his owne damnation to aduise men to depart from their wickednes how much more precisely will this obligation lye vpon the Church of God which hath the chardge ouer all Christian soules to teach them that Doctrine which is true and to let them see the danger wherein they are of hell fire if they continue to professe that which is false For the word of God whether it be written in holy Scripture or vnwritten and so deliuered from hand to hand by Tradition is his reuealed will and the Church is his Embasadour Leidger in this world to declare and announce that word and will of his to mankind and to bring them into league with God as S. Paule affirmed of him selfe and of the other Pastours and Doctours of the Church 2. Cor. 5 Legatione pro Christo fungimur c. We are Embassadours on the part of Christ with instructions for the reconciling of man to God And accordingly S. Paule was carefull to let men see their case and to declare the danger wherein sinners were For we haue seene how he warned men to take heede of the speech of hereticks as of a Cancer and else where to auoid them if they did not first reforme them selues after they had beene reprooued once or twice as also that such as departed from the vnity of faith were people who attended to the spirit of Errour and to the Doctrine of diuells and a great deale more of that kind which you shall find related before in the ninth chapter which clearly and fully shewes what opinion the holy Scripture hath of heretickes Besides all this if a man shall eternally be damned for committing of one theft or one act of simple fornication vnles he repent himselfe thereof before he dy Gal. 5. Cōsulta decapes relig which is cleare by S. Paules expresse text much more as Father Lessius shewes shall he incurre those eternall torments

haeretici c. De fide Symb cap. 10. both Heretickes Schismatickes are wont to call their congregations by the name of Churches Heretickes violate Fayth by belieuing false things of God and Schismatickes though they belieue the same things with vs doe yet fly from fraternall Charity by their wicked diuisions And therefore neither doth the Hereticke belong to the Catholicke Church because he loueth not God nor the Schismaticke because he loueth not his neighbour For how saith these Sainte elwhere shall the Schismaticke be esteemed to be in Charity with his neighbour who is out of Charity or Communion with the whole body of Christ which is his Church Epist ad Dam. Saint Hierome writing to Pope Damasus saith not only of the Catholicke Church indifinitely but denoting that to be the Romane that that Church is the Arke out of which whosoeuer liueth shal be drowned in the deluge and that that Church is the house out of which whosoeuer should eate the lambe were a prophane person Lactantius also sayth thus Lib. 4. cap. 30. Sola Ecclesia Catholica est c. It is the Catholicke Church alone which preserues the true worship of God this is the fountaine of truth this the house of faith this the Temple of God if any man either enter not into it or depart out of it Ibid. he shall be depriued of the hope of saluation and eternall life No man must flatter himselfe with an obstinate kind of contention for the questions here about saluation and life which if it be not watchfully and diligently prouided for it will be extinct and lost Saint Fulgentius hath this dreadfull saying wherewith I will conclude this point Firmissimè tene c. be most firmely persuaded and haue not doubt at all but that euery Hereticke or Schismaticke baptised in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost if withall he be not a member of the Catholicke Church can by no meanes be saued how great Almes soeuer he shall giue yea and though he should shed his bloode for the name of Christ For so long as the sinne either of Heresie or Schisme which drawes men downe to death shall remaine in any man neither Baptisme nor Almes nor death endured for the name of Christ can be of any benefit towards his saluation who houlds not fast the vnity of the Catholicke Church And now by this we see what the holy Scriptures and what the Fathers of the most primitiue time affirme concerning the vnsaueablenesse of any man who is not a member of that Church which formerly hath beene so cleerely proued to be but One Nor will I so much distrust either the attentiō or discretiō of my reader as to thinke that I neede presse this point any further Soe that now in the next place it will only remaine to be considered and resolued whether or no both the Catholickes the Protestāts cā be truly said to be parts mēbers of this One and the selfe same Church for if they can not the case in question is already iudged and there will be no colour of reason why either of vs should hereafter be charged with want of Charity for affirming that the other is not saueable without repentance of his Religion CHAPTER VI. That both Catholickes and Protestants can not possibly be accounted to be of one and the same Religion Fayth and Church HItherto I haue insisted vpō the former part of this maine discourse wherein I vndertooke to shew and doe conceaue my selfe to haue cōplyed with my word that there is but one true Religion one true Church out of which there is no saluation It will now remaine that I prooue the second part of my vndertaking which is that both the Catholickes Protestāts can by noe meanes account themselues to be professours of that one true Religion and obedient Children to that one true Church whichsoeuer be that true Church by the addresse cōduct wherof men may hope to saue their soules For cleare demonstration whereof it will be fit in the first place to shew what that is which makes a diuersity in Religion and without which men may still be of the same Religlon though there be difference of opinion betweene them The very name of a Christian Religiō whereby Almighty God is to be worshiped implyes a doctrine which must be beleiued Sacraments which must be receaued discipline which must be embraced Prelates or Gouernours which must be obeyed therefore that which make a Religiō to be entire is the beliefe of the same doctrine and the participating of the same Sacraments and obedience to the same discipline and Prelates or Gouernours so farre as men doe not obstinately reiect any part thereof or refuse to submit thereunto Whosoeuer doth this and cōformes his interiour by way of beliefe to the same doctrine and Sacramēts and his exteriour by way of obedience to the sayd Prelates and discipline may iustly be held to be one of the same Religion and whosoeuer refuseth to do this fayles of that But so also on the other side whensoeuer the Church hath not decided propounded and commaunded a doctrine to be belieued by her children and hath not enioyned such a part of discipline to be embraced a man so that he commit no scandall in the manner of it may varie both in the one and in the other from other men and may thinke and do as he sees cause without offending the vnity of Church or incurring thereby the crime either of heresie or schisme as I shall shew more at large afterwards vpon an other occasion It must therefore be considered whether Catholicks and Protestants be of one Church or not or rather it is to be seene for indeed in this case men haue not so much neede of their wits as of their eyes for the resoluing of the question But yet still to the end that euen the weakest stomackes may be made strong inough to digest that morsell which is coming toward it I will shew by seuerall arguments that we are farre from all possibility of passing for professours of the same Religion for members of the same Church so longe as we continue as we are For who perceaues not at the first sight that we resolutely differ from one another in the prime and maine points of Christian Religion We embrace not all the same Scriptures we differ about no fewer then fiue Sacraments of seauen which Catholickes belieue with all reuerence and they reiect withall contēpt Yea and euen concerning those two in the receiuing whereof we both agree namely the Sacrament Baptisme of the Cōmunion there are so many differences and debates amongst vs about the necessity of of the one and the reall presence of our Lord in the other that vpon the matter we can be thought but to agree in words We differ about the authority of all traditiōs vnwrittē which is the very foūdation of our

seriously censure the Zuinglians and all the Sacramentaries for hereticks and as alienated from the Church of God And I protest before God and the world that I agree not with them nor euer will but will haue my hād cleare from the blood of those sheepe which these hereticks driue from Christ deceaue and kill And againe in the same place Cursed be the Charity and concord of Sacramentaries for euer and euer to all eternity And a litle before his death he protesteth saying I hauing now one of my feete in the graue will carry this testimony and glory to the tribunall of God That I will with all my heart condemne and eschew Carolostadius Zuinglius Oecolampadius their disciples nor will haue familiarity with any of them neither by letter writing words nor deedes accordingly as the Lord hath commaunded Thus he sayth with very much more to the same effect And to make this yet more euident by the like testimonyes of the Zuinglians Caluinists the Tigurine Diuines say thus Nos condemnatam execrabilem vocat sectam c. Luther calls vs a damnable and execrable sect but let him looke that he declare not himselfe an Archheretick since he will not nor cannot haue any society with those that confesse Christ. But how marueilously doth Luther here bewray himselfe with his diuells what filthy words doth he vses such as are replenished with all the diuells in helle For he sayth that the diuell dwelleth both now and euer in the Zuinglians and that they haue a blasphemous brest insathanized persathanized and supersathanized and that they haue besides a most vaine mouth ouer which Sathan beareth rule being infused perfused and transfused into the same Did euer man heare such speeches passe frō a furious diuell himselfe In so much as Zuinglius sayth of him Behould how Sathā doth endeauour wholly to possesse this man And Oecolampadius also forewarnes Luther least being puffed vp by arrogācy pride he be seduced by Sathā Wherunto might be added sūdry other like testimonies This contention betweene Luther and his followers on the one party and the Zuinglians or Caluinists on the other is yet further testified not only by the almost infinite writings of on against an other yet dayly encreasing but also by the knowne mutuall proscription or banishment of ech other from their seuerall territories or dominions So farre were they from reputing one another for members of one and the same Church Thus farre goe the words of the sayd Apoligie where you shall finde the places both of Luther and Zuinglius and Oecolampadius and the Tigurine diuines exactly cited Heare also further what Nicolaus Gallus saith who was an eminent Minister at Ratisbone of the difference amongst the Protestants themselues Non sunt leues c In The sib Hypothes The dissentions which are amongst vs be not light nor cōcerning light matters but about the greatest Articles of of Christian Doctrine of the law and the ghospell of iustification and good workes of the Sacraments and vse of ceremonies Heare also what Conradus Schlussenburgus another famous Lutheran Protestant sayth in the very Title of his booke against the Caluinists Theologiae Caluinisticae libri tres c. Three bookes concerning Caluiniā diuinity wherein it is shewed as in a Table to the eye out of two hundred thre and twenty publicke writers of the Sacramentaries with particular setting downe the pages the words the names of the authours that the said Sacramentaries haue no true belief of almost any Article of Christian Faith This booke was printed at Franckford in the yeare 1594. Reade also but the very Title of two of Grauerus his bookes who was a famous professour of Lutheranisme the one is this Absurda absurdorū absurdissima Caluinistica absurda The absourd most absourd doctrines Caluin c. and the other Bellum Ioannis Caluini Iesu Christi printed 1598. The warre of Iohn Caluin against Iesus Christ. And lastly doe but read this Title of book writtē by Aegidius Hunnius who was a most famous Lutheran and succeeded next to Luther himselfe in possessing his Chaire at Wittenberge The Title is this Aegidij Hunnij Caluinus Iudai ●ans id est c. Caluin playing the Iew that is to say A discouery made by Aegidius Hunnius of the Iewish Interpretations and corruptions whereby Iohn Caluin ●ath not bene afrayde to corrupt after a detestable māner most illustrious places and testimonies of holy Scripture concerning the glorious Trinity the Deity of Christ of the holy Ghost and especially of predictiōs of the Prophets touching the coming of the Messias his Natiuity Passion Resurrection Ascension sitting at the right hād of God Printed at Wittenberge in the yeare 1592. I forbeare both to presse this euidēce I will no further seeke to prooue by way of Authority that both Catholicks and Protestants are not sauable as not being to be accounted to be of one and the same Church and Religion no not yet euen the Lutherans and Caluinists For in a word that reason strikes euen at the roote which is drawen from the nature propriety of faith it selfe And euen that alone if it be well considered will vnanswerably conuince not only that they are of differēt faith Church who differ in so many Articles of so great moment as these wherein we professe one selues to disagree but that they also who differ in any one single point which is propounded and commanded by the Catholicke Church yea and more ouer that they who differ not in any points at all if yet they assent not vpon the only true infallible ground which is as hath bene said the reuelation of Almighty God and the Proposition and Direction of the said Catholicke Churh not only haue the selfe same faith with that Church but that they haue no supernaturall and true faith at all euen of those other doctrines which they most earnestly thinke themselues to imbrace and cōsequently that it is wholly impossible for them to be saued if they dye impenitent The reason whereof is excellently deliuered by S. Thomas and many other diuines who vnaunswerably prooue that whosoeuer belieues not the whole corps of Christian Doctrine hath no true supernaturall faith at all and doth not righly belieue any one Article thereof He may haue a kinde of materiall fayth concerning those articles to which he giues assent but not a certaine and true and supernaturall faith vnles he belieue them vpon the right grounde thereof which is The speech or reuelation of Almighty God propounded and commaunded to belieued by the Catholicke Church For example if I should belieue that Christ our Lord dyed for the sins of the world either because I had only read it in some learned booke or in regard that I had ben told so by some friend whom I much esteemed and loued or else because I thought it likely in respect of some cōgruity thereof to other things or finally vpō any other

beliefe of the holy Scripture it selfe and consequently of all the other greatest points We differ about the Primacie of S. Peter and his successours yea and about the infallibility of generall Councells and so therefore about the supreme iudge on earth of all our controuersies in Religion We differ about the iustification of soules and the value which the death and grace of Christ our Lord hath imparted to the workes of the children of God We differ in a world of particulars about the article of holy Catholicke Church and namely whether it must alwayes be visible or noe euen to the eyes of men and whether it must alwayes be free frō errour and fallibility We differ about the Communion of Saincts whether we may either pray for thē who are in Purgatory or to thē who are in heauen And we differ not only about these and many other most importāt points as mē who ar ready to relinquish their opiniōs if they be cōmāded but we ar on both sides resolued to persist though both the Catholicke Church in her counsells and the Protestants in their seuerall Confessions haue declared that their owne opinions are true and the contrary false and though we on the one side haue cast excommunication vpon the new deniers of those doctrines of ours which we haue receaued frō Christ our Lord his Apostles and they on the other haue filled their parts of the world which scurrill blasphemous inuectiues against those sayd Doctrines of ours and haue taken vpon themselues to be the reformers of the Church though without either ordinary mission or miracles and to be true publishers of the ghospell and euen the very illuminatours of the world And now therefore let that be considered once for all which hath formerly ben shewed about the stile of holy Scripture Fathers which speake those said things of Heresies and Hereticks without specifying in particular what they are And let it also be called to minde what Catalogues the Fathers of the Primitiue Church haue made of heresies whereof many abstracting frō the pride and disobedience which thereby is committed against the Church are neither of so great importance in themselues or at least not great at all in respect of those many most important Articles which ar mutually affirmed or denied betwene the Protestants and vs. For what imported it all that some were so foolish as to hold al men bound by Scripture to put of their shoes when they prayed yet S. Augustine cited them for heretickes in his Catalogue But the pride wherewith they presumed to abuse Scripture and to impose such a fond law vpon mēs cōsciences a resolutiō not to leaue it when they were commaunded by the Church was that which made it heresy in them Or what Article of the Creede or what book of Scripture or what sacramēt of the Church did the Quartodecimani deny or what errour did they introduce but only the celebrating of Easter at another time then was ordained by the Church and yet for this doth S. Austin inroll them in the rancke of heretickes the same I might exemplifie in many other particulars Presumption and pride which is expressed by choosing obstinatly maintaining of any doctrine or discipline cōtrary to the iudgment and commaundement of the Catholicke Church and by refusing to submit therein to the same Church is that wherein the very life spirit of Schisme and Heresie doth consist And the question is not here whether the point vpon which the Schisme or heresie is grounded be in it selfe of so great importance yea or no but whether there be in the hearte of any priuate man or men such a diabolicall degree of obstinacy and pride as to preferre their owne sence and Iudgment in things belonging to the faith and worship of our Lord God before the resolution and direction of his holy Catholicke Church which is his spouse his kingdome his house his Sanctuary and his citty which was made the treasure house of grace the foundation and pillar of truth the depositary of the holy Ghost and the heire of most faithfull and firme promises that euen the gates and power of Hell it selfe should neuer be able to preuaile against it And now I say if there be found such a sinne as this in the soule of man as to preferre his owne poore dictamens before the decrees of this Church it is so very enormous so barbarous so wholy out of the way of al Religion of reason of nature and euen of common sence it sauours of such a spirituall and infernall presumption so much the more cordially to be first lamented and then detested because it is cloaked vnder the collour of the ghospell and Christian liberty and I know not what of that kind that really it can deserue no other place or degree of punishment then Hell it selfe And now that all this is true namely that heresie cōsistes not in the material beliefe of a false doctrine for the contrary thereof perhaps was not sufficiently propounded to be belieued but in the disobedience to the Church after it is propoūded that famous exāple of S. Cyprian and the Donatistes may serue for prooffe For S. Cypriā was of the first who fel vpō the doctrine of rebaptization of such as had beene baptized by Hereticks and the Donatists afterward succeeded in the same But in S. Cyprian it was but errour because the Church of his time had not absolutely condemned it but growing after to condemned in the Donatists time it was Heresie in them not to forsake it Which drew Vincentius Lirinensis to make this exclamation O admirable change of things the authours of an opinion are held Catholicks and the followers of the selfe same are iudged hereticks And S. Cyprian himselfe declares the same in substance vpō a like occasion concerning others For when one inquired of him what that erroneous doctrine was which Nouatianus the schismatick had taught his answere to his friend was directly this Thou must know that we should not be curious what that doctrine is which he teaches since he is out of the Church teachinge clearly therby that not the quality of the doctrine but the pride of the man is that which makes the hereticke And in deede if this were not the rule whereby heresies and schismes must be knowne it were impossible to conclude what were an heresie or a schisme and so also there should fall out to be no heresie in effect at all which might not be compatible with saluation Now this opinion is not only contrary to the current of holy Scriptures and Fathers and to the beliefe and practise of the Catholicke Church of all ages but euen of the Protestants themselues who condemne not only vs but one an another also as is abundantly shewed the Authour of the Protestants Apologie c. for the Roman Church and especially in the place cited in the Margine fol. 408. where he cites Luther expresly saying thus We