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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A65868	The he-goats horn broken, or, Innocency elevated against insolency & impudent falshood in answer to two books against the people of God called Quakers : the one intituled, A fuller discovery, which is stuffed with such a multitude of lyes, slanders, and perverting the truth, as the like hath not been extant : the authors of which are John Horn, Thomas Moore Senior, and Thomas Moore Junior : and the other book is falsely called truth's triumph by John Horn : which are answered for the information of the people, and the clearing of the servants of God, and the way of truth to the simple hearted from the lyes, delusions and fallacies that have proceeded from the spirit of Antichrist and blasphemy, in these men aforesaid, who profess themselves ministers of Christ but are proved ministers of Satan and unrighteousness / by a witness of Christ and his work against all the works of darkness, G.W.	Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723.	1660 (1660)	Wing W1933; ESTC R38606	53,172	64

the Believers and not the Anointed which is also false for Jesus Christ is the Anointed of God who is in the Saints and the Anointed and Anointing is not devided J. H. and T. M. p. 94. That Christ in the Body of his Flesh may be truly and properly said to be Ascended or gone up far above all Heavens not onely in respect of Glory and Dignity but even in respect of place or Local height also Rep. But what place or Local height it is that Christ is Ascended into far above all Heavens Eph. 4. 10. you have not discovered but say it was Heaven it self or the Heaven of Heavens as if you had said Heaven itself the Heaven of Heavens is far above all Heavens and then it must be far above itself when the Apostle saith he that Descended is the same also that Ascended up far above all Heavens that he might fill all things Eph. 4. 9. 10. and it is the same that first Descended that Ascended far above all Heavens this is spoken without exception of place or Lo●● height as you except and the Heaven of Heavens cannot contain that glory that he is in who is ascended who is both in the Heavens and far above them all Our 10th Question is where or how came Christ into the House where his Disciples were met after his Resurrection the doors being shut John 20. 19 26. have not some of you said that then his body being spirituallized it glyded in at the key hole of the door you answer That none of you have said as related Reply But in this you have not all cleared your selves from speaking these or the like words for one that informed me how Thomas Moor the elder spoke of Christs body glyding in at the key hole of the door hath been one of his own hearers whom I know durst not bely him but would be willing to witness it openly to his face if called to it and Barthel Wormel Alderman who owns you did not go about to clear T. Moor from what was said of him as mentioned when he took upon him to answer that question and it appears that T. M. and you have had such like whimseyes in your minds by what follows where you say these words viz. Further also you are assured that even the Children of the first Resurrection when they shall attain to that Resurrection of the dead and have their bodies that now are vile fashioned into the likeness of his glorious body they in those very bodies being spiritual immortal powerful incorruptible shall be equal to the Angels who cannot be hindred from passage by any corruptible things as doors walls or the like but can make their own passage thorow any such obstacles more easily than mortal bodies through the Ayr and why should it be thought a thing incredible c. Reply Here people may see these mens imaginations and dreams and how against what they have professed they would appear wise above what is written for we never read in all the Scriptures that the Children of the first Resurrection in these very bodies of flesh and bones shall be so equal to the Angels in the Resurrection as that they may make their own passage thowrow any such obstacles as doors walls and the like more easily than mortal bodies through the Ayr as you may see plainly these men imagin wherein they shew themselves intruders into things they have not seen being vainly puft up in their fleshly minds and more like such as are peeping and muttering and running into sorcery and magick then men in the simplicity of the Gospel for it is not at all natural nor proper to a body of flesh and bones it being of such a substance to make its own passage thorow doors and walls more easily than now it can thorow the Ayr thus have they shewed their dreaming in the night of thick darkness that is over them And in P. 129. J. H. and T. M. are speaking about the second coming of Christ and say that his second coming his glorious appearing never yet hath been to any nor now is c. Reply herein they might as well say that then never yet were any come to Salvation by Christ for his second coming is without sin unto Salvation and for the same end he will appear to them that yet look for him even to save them from their sins for his coming in the flesh wherein he was once offered to bear the sins of many Heb. 9. 28. This was one coming of Christ and after this the Saints who looked for him received his coming in Spirit to work their Redemption and to make them witnesses of his Kingdome Glory and Reign and to Reign with him over darkness and unrighteousness but these things have these deceivers put afar off and discern not Christs Kingdome Reign and where they say that Christ shall then stay all the wicked even every one that doth not presently submit to serve him and his People and that then all the Saints that come with him shall have immortal bodies being as equal to the Angels and that they shall Reign with Christ on Earth and Judge the World until the final and eternal Judgment seize upon all the ungodly at the last and general Resurrection Reply Herein they have spoken but faintly and in darkness for what service it is they imagin the People of God shall then have from the wicked when they shall be in these raised immortal bodies they have not told us nor what need the Saints in these immortal bodies can have of the other part of the Creation or of the wicked to serve them especially if their bodies be such as can make their passage so immediately thowrow any such obstacles as doors and walls as these men have said and yet these bodies must be bodies of flesh and bones according to their words But these vain conceptions do arise from the same Spirit in them that leads them into pride self-exaltation and to look for master-ship in the Earth like those that look to gain an Earthly Kingdome or to Reign with Christ in some outward pomp and glory and so to bring all under them and then they would be Lords indeed but their expectations after that will fail them as for their bringing Revel. 20. 4 6. It proves not what they would have it nor the other Scriptures they have blindly quoted that Christ shall personally Reign a thousand years * for in Revel. 20. 5. it ' spoken of the first Resurrection which he is blessed that hath a part in for then he hath a part in Christ who is the Resurrection the life whose Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdome which hath already appeared unto his People and is set up among them that they are come to Reign with him over the World and it's deceivers and these men as appears imagin that after Christ hath at his coming raised the dead bodies of the Saints and reigned

now to some of J. Horns and T. Moors Doctrines in their Epistle wherein they have belyed and grosly perverted the Truth with their false constructions and inferences as to our saying that the seed of God which is Christ wherever he is known in such a low measure as a seed that suffers and is burthened in man by corruption there he desires to be free from the burthen of sin and alwayes to do his Fathers will and this seed the Power reaches to where it is begotten and in the Power it arises in them that believe in the Light for their Redemption to which J. H. and T. M. Scornfully say of this seed Christ which we speak of that he hath not ceased from sin in them nor can do in all things his Fathers will but needs a Power to reach to him where he is begotten And that we represent him as one not able to do his Fathers will in some men To which I reply that Christ cannot in all things do his Fathers will is their own words and not ours neither does it follow from what we said for his desiring to do his Fathers will in that suffering state does no more argue that he is unable to do it than when he prayed to the Father not my will but thine be done who could do nothing without the Father as also the Heir as long as he is a Child differeth nothing from a Servant though he be Lord of all Gal. 4. 1. and Christ came into the World to do his Fathers will which is the sanctification of them that believe which he desired to do before it was done and as for the Power reaching the seed which so much these men have scoffed at and counted what we said of it confused stuff in page 63. They have shewed themselves ignorant of the seed of God which the promise is to and that they never knew the work of that Power which reaches that seed as also they are ignorant of the Scriptures for it is written Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive Power Riches Wisdome and Strength and Honour and Glory and Blessing Revel. 5. 12. so that they might as well have scoft at the Angels of God who spake these words as at us and have said that the Power that reaches to the seed is Christ and then Christ is worthy to receive Christ as also they have done in like manner in their scorn in page 63. wherein they have shewed their gross ignorance of the several manifestations of Christ the seed in his People who are of the seed of Abraham which Christ took upon him to redeem his own and to bring to his own Power and promise which he receives of the Father And our saying that this Seed which is Christ where he suffers and is burthened in man by corruption there he desires to be free from the burthen of sin does not argue as falsely as these men infer that it cannot be said of the Seed of God that in it is no sin for Christ hath suffered by mens sins and been pressed with them and born them Amos 2. 13. Ezek. 6. 9. and yet in him is no sin and if these men were not past feeling they might feel how the Spirit of the just in them they have often grieved burthened and afflicted by their own sins and yet in that Spirit there is no sin but in them who resist it J. Horn and Thomas Moor say their Christ by that his death once suffered and in his Resurrection in that his Body c. hath overcome Death and the Devil slain the enmity and taken out of the way all that was contrary to them redeemed them from the Curse of the Law I Answer Herein have they stollen the Saints words which they are out of the like of for if the enmity were taken out of the way Sin would not be their natural heritage as they have pleaded for it and they would not have uttered so many lies and falsehoods as they have done for one of which J. Horne hath craved forgivness and if all that 's contrary to them be taken out of their way then its evident that sin and the Nations pollutions are not contrary to them for they have confessed themselves too much to have a share in them and that they are abusers of the Truth And to that 1 John 4. 17. as he is so are we in this World J. H. and T. M. give their meaning and say as Christ is unknown despised hated persecuted in his Doctrine and judged by any of the World so are we Answ. In this have they apparently lyed for Christ was persecuted to Death of the World but so are not J. Horne not T. Moor neither are they unknown of the World as Christ was for Christ was never known to Preach in a Steeplehouse by an Hour-glass for Tyths or so much in the Year in Leiw of them like the Parish Priests and Deceivers who are out of the steps of the true Ministers who walked after Christs example not after the hireling Priests example who Preach for hire and gifts and reward as these men do And rather than J. Horne will freely suffer by the World as Christ did take heed that he fall not to the Common-prayer-book And to our calling J. Horne a Priest he sayes if we mean he is a Priest of the order of Aaron a Levitical Priest we say evidently false Answ. If he be not a Priest of the order of Aaron then he plainly appears to be a false Priest seeing that in Page 70. he hath pleaded for his taking Tyths as neither repugnant to Gods Law nor Mans as also his practises therein he instances that the Priests had their several Subburbs and Quarters when as they that had these were of the Levitical Priesthood Numb. 35. Which Priesthood J. Horne hath plainly denyed himself to be one of and yet pleads for Tyths which pertained to that Priesthood which Christ ended and disanulled the commandment which gave the Tyths Heb. 7. So what hypocrisie is this J. H. in who claimes a right to Tyths as both being according to the Law of God and Man and yet upon that account denies to be called Priest when as the Law of God calls them Priests that took Tyths and does not the Law of Man the like And does not the Book of Common-Prayer call them Priests So that upon this account may J. Horne be called a false Priest he claiming a right to Tyths as by the Law of God when as the service of the Tabernacle for which they were given to the Prists of Levie he is out of Numb. 18. As also he is guilty of the false Priests practises who Preached for hire and divined for money Mica 3. 11. J. H. and T. Moor the elder and the younger say that the false Apostles it seems by what the Apostles writes of them 2 Cor. 11. 12. they use to boast of their free Preaching and in Page 71. They

for our words are these that you look for a Christ like your selves but that he hath no blood in his Body as you imagine whom we desire not the knowledge of for such a Christ they look for as they cannot prove the true Christ to be in their Affirming him to have a Bod of Flesh and bones in the Heavens without blood in it as many have heard them Publikely Affirm which now they would deceitfully deny that they so Affirmed and say p. 26. that they determined not that his Body is a Body of Flesh and bones in Heaven without blood and so they have Preached and published that which they determined not but were doubtful of what deceit and confusion is here And how do they leave men in uncertainties J. H. and T. M. p. 11. say That a man may be a sinner by having sin in him and yet not sin and to prove it bring Rom. 7. 20. Paul did not the Evil c. To which I say that their words are as much as if they had said that a sinner sins not What folly is this which that of Rom. 7. 20. proves not for though there was that in Paul which was of God that sinned not yet when he did the Evil which he would not then he sinned in doing it Again these Diviners who are thus Confounded say he that doth Righteousness is Righteous as God is Righteous yea as Christ is Righteous not because there is no sin in him but because Christ is made to him of God his Righteousness and in him he is Righteous as Christ is Righteous Answ. What then hath Christ sin in him if a man be Righteous as Christ is Righteous when he hath sin in him this their Assertion would charge both Christ and them that are in him to have sin in them which is Blasphemy against Ghrist For in him is no Sin and he is made manifest to destroy Sin And to our Question which was what one Sin or Sinnes can they lay to Paul or James or John's charge or to any of them that they were not perfectly freed from before their Decease Let them prove some sin which was not destroyed in any of those before their Decease or for ever be silent from pleading for sin or accusing the Righteous as they have done as also we asked them what sin can they prove that Nathaniel had in him when he had no guile in him To which J. Horn and T. Moore Reply page 13. That it is enough that we believe Paul James and John that they had Sin and did in many things offend though we cannot name their Particular offences as it is to believe multitudes to have dyed though we know not of what Particular Diseases c. and in page 20. They tell us we may as well say seeing the Scripture Witnesses that the Children of Korah dyed not in the Judgement that befell Korah and his Company what Disease they dyed of and if they cannot prove that they dyed of some Disease then they are Confuted if they believe and hold that they dyed they say Answ. Here any Impartial Reader may see how these men are Confounded who have accused the Saints to have Sin in them and to offend in many things while they lived upon Earth and now cannot prove any one sin that they were not perfectly freed from before their Decease or which was not destroyed in them before their Decease so that here all may see how Ignorantly they have accused the Saints and how far short of proving their Assertion they are for any of the Saints confessing any of their present states or failings does not at all prove that they were offenders or had sin in them so long as they lived as these said accusers would have it and as to their saying that multitudes have dyed though they know not of what Particular diseases and if they cannot prove that they dyed of some disease then they are confuted if they believe that they dyed to that I say thus their comparison will not hold but is foolish neither will it follow from what we propounded for it is evident that multitudes have dyed as it is appointed for men once to dye But they have not so proved that all the Saints were Sinners or had sin in them so long as they lived according to their Assertion And to their saying that David implies Sins in them though forgiven and covered in whose Spirit is no guile Psa. 32. 1 2. here they have added their own words unto Davids for he spake of such unto whom the Lord imputeth not Iniquity whose sin is covered and in whose Spirit is no guile nor can any say that their sin is thus covered when they sin or that it shall not be imputed to them while they are guilty of it for does not the Light of Christ discover in man his sin and reprove him for it when he is guilty of it They that know it can tell though it s hid from these said accusers Again I. H. and T. M. say David saith no man living is so free from sin as to be justified if God enter into Judgment with them and to prove it bring Psa. 143. 2. Answ. This is a lye against David for these are not his words he said not that no man living is so free from sin as to be justified c. For when the enemy had persecuted Davids Soul and had Smitten his Life down to the Ground he said enter not into Judgment with thy Servant O Lord for in thy sight shall no man living be Justified Which relates to that state wherein the Enemy hath Power that the life is Smitten down to the Ground and man cannot be Justified but thorow the death to that which Judgment is to So this Scripture they have brought proves no more that the Saints are not freed from sin in this life then it does that they are not Justified in Gods sight while in this life when as the Saints were Justified from that which the Judgments of God was to and such could say its not I that live but Christ in me To our saying touching Christs Body that the Body is one and hath many Members 1 Cor. 12 12. I. H. and T. M. answer that 's said both of a Personal and Mistical body or Society in different sences and then they say true also that the body of Christ either Personal or Mistical is not Carnal but Spiritual REP. Here they darken the minds of the simple by words which they have no Scripture for for the Scripture no where speaks of Christ having a Personall body and a Mistical body and yet both Spiritual For if he hath two Spiritual bodies wherefore do they say the one is Personal and the other Mistical as if then both were not Mistical and whence came that distinction in these words from the Papists What is not that which is Spiritual Mistical according to their own words but Paul saith as the body is one and

hath many Members so also is Christ and now are they many Members yet but one body 1 Cor. 12. 12 20. and there is one body and one Spirit Ephes. 4. 4. but I. Horn in a Paper to me saith that Jesus hath a humane Body and Soul * where does the Scripture say that Christs Soul is humane For his Soul is divine and immortal mens natural or earthly bodies are humane and the Apostle distinguisheth between them and the Spiritual bodies 1 Cor. 15. 40 44. so that Christ hath a glorious Spiritual body in Heaven which few can discern distinct from mens teresttial or natural bodies wch are humane now if Christ hath a natural or humane body a Spiritual body his Church too which is his body which they call his Mistical body may they not as well say he hath three bodies And then why not as well four or five bodies But their Ignorance about the natural and the Spiritual bodies is so plainly discovered in our Book intituled a Brief Discovery of the Dangerous Principles c. in which the Truth is so clearly over them that I need say little as to that Particular now To that 1 Thes. 4. 15. Where its said we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord c. John Horn and T. M. say we that live and remain means but those of us that shall be found living that is of the company of believers with whom they numbred themselves because then living and possibly not knowing but they might have lived to his coming but it no more implyes that the believers of that age should live and remain till the coming of Christ then they who lived in David's age lived in Moses age many hundred years before him c. I Answer Herein these perverters would accuse Paul with speaking both ignorantly and falsely to speak ignorantly as if he knew not whether they should live and remain till the coming of the Lord who then were alive and to speak falsely in their denying that the believers of that age should live and remain till the coming of Christ whenas Paul expresly said we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them that are asleep so that they knew the several appearances and opperations of Christ till they all beheld his glory with open face as in a glass and were made to sit with him in Heavenly places J. H. and T. M. The Apostles exhort to set our affections upon things above where Christ is also at the right hand of God not upon things within your selves but upon things above Col. 3. 2. 3. I Answer If the Saints were not to set their Affections on things within themselves then not upon Christ in them for the Riches of the Glory of this mystery was Christ in them the hope of Glory Col. 1. 27. so see the darkness of these men who would as by their Doctrine divide Christ who is both in the Saints and at Gods right hand not devided nor Gods right hand devided from them who are saved by it and how should they set their affections on things above when they do not affect Christ nor his Spirit in them Page 42. J. H. and T. M. The Apostles Faith was not grounded in Christs appearing in them Page 42. Answ. Which is contrary to the Apostles Doctrine for Paul Preached to the Saints that their faith might stand in the power of God and this power wrought mightily in them and Paul said examine your selves whether you be in the faith prove your own selves know you not your own selves how that Jesus Christ is in you except ye be reprobates J. H. and T. M. in Page 31. accuse us with being Juglers and Jesuites that are full of lies and confusion But this I return back upon them as a lie and a slander invented in their malice for do they know us to be Jesuites Why do they not discover us to be such then After that J. H. and T. M. have denyed that they that were led by the Spirit of God did witness the creature brought into the glorious liberty of the Sons of God before their decease wherein they have discovered much ignorance of the state of them who were led by the Spirit of God who remained not all their life time without their liberty they say it is God that hath ordered the Redemption there spoken of viz. Rom. 8. 23. to be after death c. and that it was their part viz. the Apostles and so is ours to groan after it and wait for it till the time of Christ's descending from Heaven to change our vile body c. To which I say and this descending of Christ from Heaven according to these mens words is not till after mens decease when they say the bodies shall be raised And then if it be the Saints part that are deceased and the part of all believers to groan after and wait for the redemption of the body as if the Saints body were not changed nor redeemed from the bondage of corruption before their decease as these men affirm where are the Saints deceased now groaning for Redemption are they with the Father in Heaven groaning for it Or are they groaning in some Purgatory between Heaven and Hell Oh! what sottishness are these men in For in the Father is rest from burthens and bondage which caused the groaning and the Saints according to their expectations and hope knew the working of the Power of God according to which they witnessed a changing of the body of their lowness as the word renders it {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} and a fashiong of it into the likeness of Christs glorious body which power these men being ignorant of they put that Redemption and the glorious liberty of the Sons of God a far of till after the decease they know not how long but their ignorance about that hath been largly manifest Again to vindicate Thomas Moors instancing for Christ's being in Heaven with a body of flesh and bones without blood in it that we do not read that there was any blood in Adam's body in Paradice To this J. Horn and T. M. say that T. Moor brought forth indeed such an observation as a conception or thought of his which rendered it probable to his apprehension that a glorified spiritual body needs not the being of material blood in it and that he reads not that Adam's body had blood in it before the fall in which he conceives what before was more purely Spirits was changed into blood and therein the body became mortal but this is but his private conception which he gives not forth as an Oracle to be believed as an Article of Faith they say Page 53. I Answer Mark the deceit and lying divinations of these men and how doubtful and confused they are in what they deliver it is known by many that Thomas Moor affirmed openly as also he hath in

some of his Books that Christs body in Heaven is a body of flesh and bones without blood in it and that he ascended without material blood But against this their own assertion they say in Page 26. yet that his body is a body of flesh and bones in Heaven without blood in it they determined not So who should believe these Hypocrites who assert things that they themselves are so doubtful of and Preached their own conceptions and imaginations which they have no Scripture for and against their own words have guessed above what is written and have given forth their private conceptions not as an Oracle to be believed Oh! what darkness and folly are they in And yet after that they have confessed that what they have said of Adams body not having blood in it before the fall is but a private conception which they give not as an Oracle to be believed They go about to vindicate this private conception of theirs in these words viz. but how prove we that Adam had blood Why blood is the life T. M. may answer it is so in the fallen state follows it it was so there they say So then it follows from these mens words that it is in the fallen state that men have blood in their bodies that then it is the life but not in the innocent or spiritual state from whence they might as well say that then Christ had never blood in his body for he was never in the fallen state and that the Saints that were Spiritual had not blood for they were not thus in the fallen state What miserable blind guides are these that tive go about to maintain their foolish conceptions which they gall not forth as Oracles to be believed And to our saying that Nations are made of one blood Acts 17. 26. J. Horn and T. Moor say but neither doth that cross T. Moors apprehensions for there was no Nation nor man made of Adam before his fall he fell before he propagated they say Answ. Here again their folly and sottishness exceedingly appears for Adams falling before he propagated does notargue that he had no blood in his body before he fell for Nations to be made of for he might have propagated if he had not fallen seeing that when God had created man in his own image male female created he them then God blessed them and God said unto them be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth and subdue it c. Gen. 1. 27 28. And where we asked them whether they believe there was no blood left in Christs body when crucisied They answer how should we certainly believe what is not revealed Some judge it probable there was not because it is said after his fide was pierced forthwith came there out blood and water water is mentioned last as if blood might be all drained out till water followed it they say I answer Here again they have shewed their weakness in that they have here shewn that they do not certainly believe there was no blood in Christs body when Crucified because it s not revealed to them and where they say that forthwith came there out water and blood I say what could the blood all come out forthwith so that people may take notice that all their former asserting that Christ ascended without material blood and that his body is in Heaven without blood in it their thus blindly reasoning for it as they have here done is but all in darkness since what they speak of it is not revealed to them and therefore they say they find some good men that had the oversight of the Churches here in Queen Elizabeth and the following dayes did not disbelieve or deny such a conception for they say it is printed amongst those songs set before or after the Psalms in the complaint of a sinner Thus they The Scripture doth declare no drop of blood in thee for that thou didst not spare to shed each drop for me Page 54. Whence the Reader may see from whence J. Horn and old T. Moore and his Son have part of their Faith or their Testimony for it even from among Songs which were Invented by men what sad stuff is this but sure could they have proved their Faith and their Conceptions by the Scriptures they needed not to have gone to among old Songs to have proved it which are but Aditions of men not given forth by the Prophets or Apostles After that John Horn hath in pag. 55. Confessed himself subject to forgetfulness and over-sights and that he did in his forgetfulness write Job for Elihu because the Book doth wholly bear the Title of Job he further proceeds in his Deceit to Vindicate his words in a Letter to Eliz. Underwood which were that the good Angels are not pure in the presence of God and to prove it he brought Job 4. 18. and 15. 15. where it s said behold he putteth no trust in his Saints and his Angels he charged with folly which were none of Jobs words but Eliphaz his words who was one of the Miserable Comforters that came against Job and one of them against whom the wrath of God was kindled and spoke not the thing of God that was right as Job did Job 42. 7. but John Horn replyes that what Eliphaz said of the Angels as charged with folly is related by Eliphaz rather as a thing Revealed to him and said to him in a Vision by a Spirit I Answ. But what Spirit it was that led Eliphaz to speak so against the Saints Angels thou J. H hast not made appear but in thy Darkness and Deceit hast Joyned with that Spirit that hath accused the Brethren and the good Angels as thou hast done further then Eliphaz did for where provest thou that the good Angels are not pure in the presence of God and what Sin canst thou prove the good Angels Guilty of that makes them Impure and what are the names of those good Angels that thou hast so accused and doest thou believe that God putteth no trust in his Saints according to his words that thou hast quoted to prove thy Deceit Again Pag. 57. J. H. and T. M. Say they said about that in 1 Cor. 15. So flesh and blood cannot Inherit the Kingdom of God that in the Changed state what was blood before might be Changed into Pure Life and Spirit the thing and Substance remaining though they say not in the same Form of Blood which yet they Conclude not they say Answ. Here again they have shewed their folly and Imaginations for which they have been reproved in Laying down that which they have no Scripture for but their own blind Supsition which now they Conclude not and so are but uncertain of their blindly saying That in the Changed state what was blood before might be changed into pure Life and Spirit and yet the thing and Substance remaining So how can others believe these men when they seem hardly to believe their own

3. That Envy is not Malice Page 18. 4. That a man may be a Sinner and yet not Sin Pag. 11. 5. That Sin is in the believer as a natural heritage from Adam while he is in this mortal Body Pag 2. 8. 6. That the same mortal Body that Dyes or is sown in the Earth shall Rise but it shall not Rise flesh and blood Pages 44. 46. 7. To know Christ as he was the Power of God before the World was is not the Knowledge of him to Salvation Pag 48. 8. That the Light wherewith Christ Lighteth every man is both natural and Spiritual Pag. 61. 9. That Adam should not have dyed the bodily Death had he not Sinned Pag. 23. 10. That when Paul saith Christ was seen of him last 1 Cor. 15 8. he must needs mean is of his Body seen and seen by bodily sight Pag. 55. which is contrary to Gal. 1. 16. And now I shall note some things in their Answers to our Queries and briefly Reply to them by way of discovery J. H. and T. M. Sen. Juni in Pag. 77. They go about to prove that Satan presseth men to some duties thus viz. That Satans Ministers may be transformed into the Ministers of Righteousness which they could not be if not zealous for some things that are in their place and order in Duties as to be diligent to go up and down and Preach Righteous works together with their own mixtures and to evil unrighteous ends Reply How miserably come you off here for these are not Duties that are done to unrighteous ends for Duties are done in Righteousness and to Righteous ends and this Satan presseth none to your selves are these transformed ones you tell of who are zealous for some things for Tythes or Hire or Masterships and these are your evil and unrighteous ends which are manifest to all men and are not yet come so far as they that are drawn from gross evils and though Satan for your own ends press these things as Duties yet are they not Duties in the sight of God and Gospel Truth Touching our 1. Que. You say p. 8. Whether we so propounded it out of weakness or wickedness you will not determine And yet soon after in your Answer to the same Que. you charge us with confounding things clearly distinct and seeking by such confusion to work our ends in deceiving the simple which is your own false determination against us when before you determined not whether we so propounded it out of weakness or wickedness thus you betray your selves in your confusion and at the Beginning of your Answer you falsely say these Questions give a full Intimation of our Antichristian Spirit which is your slander and perverting them In your 2. Answer you say our Que. is perverse in that it Intimately charges you as calling the Personal Body of our Lord Jesus a Body of flesh and bones which you say is a slander for it is not your expression and yet you say though possibly you may sometimes have let it pass without consideration or particular notice of it in some discourse that may have passed between us Reply Mark how these men are ashamed of their own words and count that a Slander which they cannot deny but that they may sometimes have spoken as called the Body of Christ a Body of flesh and bones and yet now they say the expression they own not when it is evidently known that they have used that expression and gone about to prove it to be such a Body without blood in it but now seeing that they shame not to deny their own expression I ask them if the glorified Body of Christ be not a body of flesh and bones as formerly they have Affirmed it to be what is it a body of and what is the Substance of it Again you say in your 3. Answer That be even the Son of man came down from Heaven and descended into the Lower parts of the Earth although that his Personal Body in which he was made man and became the Son of man was actually prepared for him or the preparation of it was made in the Earth you say Reply Mark your confusion here which is as if the Son of man which came down from Heaven again became the Son of man in that Personal Body which was prepared for him in the Earth which is confusion for he was the Son of man as he came down from Heaven and so that Body prepared for him in the Earth Descended not down from Heaven as the Son of Man did according to your own words And where you bring Ps. 139. 15. that proves not how the Son of man Descended into the Lower parts of the Earth for there it s spoken of the Lowest parts of the Earth wherein the Prophet saith he was curiously wrought now this is besides the Que. for it was about him which Descended into the Lower parts of the Earth and not about that which was framed in the Lowest parts of the Earth which David speaks of Psal. 139. 15. and as for your telling of the Son of man being three dayes and three nights in the heart of the Earth pag. 92. I say the Sepulchre in which his Body was Buryed could not be the Lower parts of the Earth for it was but one part of it it being in a Rock Mat. 27. 60. and where in Pag. 91. you say men of the lowest Ranke poor despised and of mean esteem may be as properly called the Lower parts of the Earth and you bring Rom. 12. 16. then I say if such men be the Lower parts into which Christ Descended It follows that his Discending into the Lower parts of the Earth was his Descending into men of the lowest Rank poor despised and of mean esteem such as you are not who are set up as Masters it seems you running into so many things to prove what the Lower parts of the Earth are which Christ Descended into you thought if some of them would not serve others would but where the Earth is not yet shaken nor the Power which must shake and Remove it known the Lower parts of the Earth is covered with thick darkness that they are not discerned nor the Seed which Rents the Earth known and that is your state and to you a Parable who are out of the Power of Godliness over whom the Earth and earthly things hath Power J. H. and T. M. Say Pag. 93 and 106. That the Name Jesus alwayes signifies that Person as so made and includes the Body of his Flesh and that the Name Jesus alwayes signifies Christ as come in the Flesh and so takes in that Body of his Flesh Reply If the Name Jesus alwayes Includes the Body of his Flesh then from this it followes that the Body of Christs flesh was in the Believers for Jesus Christ was in them 2 Cor. 13. 5. thus these men confound themselves and they have said that it is the Annointing that is in

sadly hath I. H. come off here and shifted for himself what doth he make swearing by and confessing Christ all one then he would make all the Saints who confessed Christ swearers and so transgressors of the Doctrine of Christ which was against swearing but not against confessing Christ Again this impudent man I. H. amongst others of his falsehoods he accuseth me with he is not ashamed to charge me with saying that the 63. Psalm verse 11. tends to encourage drunkards and with saying that the Apostles and Proph●●● when they confest sins were not true believers with many other lies Truly I. H. of all the lyers and false accusers that ever I met with thou art one of the most expert to tell lies and falsely to accuse thou hast sure been long discipled in they Fathers work who was a Lyer from the beginning or else thou couldest not be so expert in it Again how falsely and poorly comst thou off in saying that in my asking why should Christ teach his to pray that his will may be perfectly done in Earth as it is in Heaven if it be not in this World to be done in this thou sayest that I Reply There is nothing to be prayed for but what is here to be enjoyed in this Word In which thou hast again lyed for that is none of my reply but this is my Reply That thou hast apeared against the end for which the Disciples of Christ Preached as he taught them who prayed that his Fathers will might be done in Earth as in Heaven which thou I. H. hast denyed to be so done in this World But Christ's Testimony contradicts thee for Christ saith what things soever ye desire when you pray believe that ye receive them and ye shall have them Mar. 11. 23 24. And they desired the will of God to be done in Earth as it is in Heaven where there is no sin Which my Reply is truth and stands clearly over thee and overthrows thy sinful Doctrine about the Prophets and Apostles being sinners so long as they lived And thy telling of sinful Saints that are spotless Pages 26 33. and such thy sinful Doctrines tends to make the Saints unbelievers and their praying in effectual when they prayed that the will of God might be done in Earth as it is in Heaven And to thy saying That I would exclude the coming of Christ in glory and his glorious Kingdome out of your Prayers for that is in the World to come thou sayest I Answer Indeed thou hast already excluded these things out of thy Prayers thy self who art in thy wickedness and unbelief and putting the glorious Kingdome a far off as appears as not to be come to in this life contrary to the Saints faith who were translated into the Kingdome of the dear Son of God when upon Earth which Kingdome was everlasting and glorious and stood in the Power of God into which no unclean thing can come And where thou I. H. sayest Thou shall add no more to G. W. but leave him to the Lords convincement and silencing Indeed it 's high time for thee to give over and add no more indeed for thou hast added enough folly and falsehood against G. W. and the Truth cotended for by him to manifest thy folly and Lying Spirit to the Nation and if thou add any more to G. W. hereafter since thou hast promised to add no more to him but to leave him to the Lords Convincement and silencing thy Lying Spirit and deceit is like further to be discovered to the Nation And thy craving forgiveness for one of thy lyes will not hide thy many more and much more of thy Confusion I have passed by and more of thy Aspersions and slanders which are chiefly against me I have waved as not worth mentioning and trample them under my feet as the dust knowing that the Lord will recompence them into thy own bosom one day and Judge thee for them And as for what thou Layest upon Richard Hubberthorne it s but like the Rest of thy friuolous false stuff and his Innocency and uprightness will clear him from thy aspersions when thy wickedness and Lyes will stink and appear odious both in the sight of God and men And oh how hath thy deceit appeared in thy sending so many Questions to R. Hubberthorne as thou hast done and for what end didst thou send them seeing that thou and thy Brother Moore have pretended as if you sufficiently knew our Principles already and said in a Paper to me as that you sufficiently discovered our corruptness before and that you would not own us to be such good Doctors as to learn of us nor needed further discover us So if thou didst neither send these questions to R. H. to Learn of us then thou sent them in vain and it was in thy foolishness but thy wicked ends which thou hast not yet fulfiled against us are easie to see And where thou accusest R. H. Of denying that there be many such Angels and Spirits as the Scripture declares and of denying the Resurrection of the Body as will appear if he clearly speak out his minde in Explication of his said Answer thou sayest In both these thou hast belyed him and hast falsely accused him without understanding his minde as also thou sayest his Answer cannot be understood unless it be known what be these two Seeds and therefore Queriest of him and a little after thou challengest him for explaining his Answer before it can he seen to agree with the Apostles doctrine of the Resurrection See how thou bewrayes thy own malice falshood and folly against R. H. for it appears by thy own words here that it is not known to thee whether he deny the Resurrection in his doctrine or whether he own it according to the Apostles Doctrine except he further explain his Answer and then thou hast Judged him for denying the Resurrection without understanding him and art like the natural men whom the Apostles Reproved who spoke evil of the things they understood not and could not cease from sin 2 Pet. 2. 12. 14. and thou art never like to understand us aright while thou in thy malice sets thy self to belye and bespatter us with thy falshoods and sets thy self against the Truth as thou hast done Thy malice and enmity doth sadly darken and blinde thee so that all people ought to take heed how they follow or believe thee and such as thou art least they be Leavened with the same malicious Spirit that Rules in thee and become as blinde as thou art and so fall into the ditch with thee and that generation of Deceivers and Hirelings whose way thon art in who are guilty of the blood of souls for destroying them and diverting their mindes from the simplicity of the Gospel and your doubtful conceptions and vain Imaginations which God is confounding and will bring them to nought London in the 6. Moneth 1660. R. H. His Answer to JOHN HORN IN thy