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A07958 A toung-combat, lately happening, between two English soldiers; in the tilt-boat of Grauesend The one go-ing to serue the King of Spayn, the other to serue the States of Holland. Verstegan, Richard, ca. 1550-1640. 1623 (1623) STC 18327.5; ESTC S113013 26,750 92

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them you Red-scarf You make a shew to imitate Christe and it is but in the onlie vse of a table which is as it were but a couer to hyde your deuiall of the veritie of the chiefest matter of faith and why do you not imitate the rest which heere I haue mētioned as wel as onlie the table seing you should better imitate Christe in his whole manner of dooing then in a parte thereof or can you shew mee where you were appointed to imitate him in the vse of a hows-table and not in the rest nor in the Sacrament of Baptisme as wel as in this one thing of his supper Christ was baptised in a riuer why baptise you not also in riuers vpon what warrant vse you Fontes in Churches more then Altars But now must I go further with you seeing you haue put mee to it and tel you of another Communion fraud and I pray you note it Your Protestant minister in his administring his communion vseth these woordes to his communicant vidz The bodie of our Lord Iesus Christe which was giuen for thee preserue thy body and soule into euerlasting lyf And take and eat this in remenbrance that Christe dred sor thee and feed on him in thy heart by faith with thancks-giuing I demaund now of you whether Christe be truelie imitated heer in or no. Or whether these woordes heer by the Minister spoken are the same woords that Christ him self did speak Tawney-scarf Did not Christe say vnto his Apostles Take eat this in remenbrance of mee Red-scarf No Sir Tawney-scarf Wil you deny that Red-scarf I cannot but deny it because Christe did not so speak Tawney-scarf How spake hee then Red-scarf Hee sayd vnto his Disciples when hee had taken bread blessed it Take and eat this is my bodie c. and having sayd this thē sayd hee further Do this in cōmemoratiō of mee The Apostles were willed heer to do two thinges the one was To eat the Bodie of Christe the other was to do this in commemoration of him by the first precept they did eat the Bodie of Christe by the second in Christ his saying Do this they had power and authoritie giuen them to do afterward as Christ there thē did that is to take bread to blesse it to pronounce his sacred woords ouer it thereby to make it become his bodie and to administer it vnto others as hee had administred it vnto them and to do or sacrifise this in commemoration of him for if this later precept had not bin giuen the celebratiō of this Sacrament had not bin cōtinued by the Apostles their successors but had onlie bin there at that tyme performed by Christ so haue ceassed Thus may you see what a notable trick of Caluinistical falsitie it is to abuse the people by confounding the woordes of Christe in saying in steed of his woorde Take and eat this is my bodie And Do this in commemoration of mee to say Take and eat this in remembrance of mee which Christ sayd not but they as if hee had so sayd do thereby consequently inferre that hee did say and vnsay or as if his saying Do this in remembrance of mee which they falsify and make to bee Eat this in remembrance of mee did wholie dysanul and take away the whole effect of his former woordes which were Take and eat this it my bodie c. which is to make Christe to haue spoken those woords friuolously and to no purpose for if Christ intended not this his blessed consecrated bread to bee his bodie to what end spake hee those woordes what edification could they yeeld why might they not aswel or better haue bin left vnspoken And why might hee not more directly and cleerly haue sayd at the first Take and eat this bread in remembrance of mee or as a signe or figure of my bodie this had bin better fitting for the forming of a Protestant communion if hee had intended it But Protestants to come now so long after to make Christe a sayer and an vnsayer to bee hild vnpowrable to performe so much as he sayd or to haue spoken friuolously and to no purpose can no way stand with Christian pietie nor confident faith in Christe Tawney scarf By the Lord you put mee to it stil but I must for all that haue about with you concerning another matter You vse to woorship Images and by woorshiping them you make Idolles of them Red-scarf By this reason they that do reuerence vnto the Kinges chaire of State do there of make an Idol allo But you must vnderstand that as the sound of woordes entring at the eare do reuyne memorie in the mynde of the thing which by the sound is intended so is memorie no lesse reuyued by the sight of the eye and as at the hearing of the name of Iesus the mynd is stirred vp to a deuout remembrance and reuerence of him so is the mynd by the sight of his Image stirred vp in lyke manner And heer by the way because it is not impertinent to the purpose I must alleage vnto you a late example somwhat concerning this purpose An English servingman coming ouer out of Englād to Antwerp beholding in the principall street of the cittie the Image of Christe on the Crosse stood on the suddayn amased as it were at the sight thereof supposing it as it should seeme to haue bin the dead bodie of some malefactor newly executed it beeing painted ouer with a pale dead colour demaunded of one that was with him what that man had donne that was so nayled vp there but when the other told him it was the Image of Christe representing vnto the view of Christians his crucifying and death on the Crosse for the redemption of the world hee confessed that hee had heard it preached that Christ was crucifyed but hee knew not for all that what crucifying ment nor did hee euer apprehend it as now at the sight of the Image hee was moued to doe I make no doubt but this man had heard sermons in England more thē enoughe yet was hee with all his Sermon-hearing such a Christian as neither knew nor apprehended how Christe had dyed for his saluation You may heerby iudge of the vtillitie of the Schoole wherein hee had had his education and of the requisytnes of such representations to the view of Christian people and therefore with no litle reason did that great and godly Doctor S. Augustine as did also other anciēt holie Doctors terme the Images of Christe his saintes the books of lay people where by you may see that these men were no good protestāts for had they so bin they would haue defaced broken them slaundered thē with the fals imputatiō of beeing Idolles Beeing then as heere hath bin shewed ordayned for represētations memories of Christe and his saints no reuerence is dōne at the sight of them as meerly intēded to the Images thēselues but euer intending Christ
and others of pettier sectes that at the woord would make but poor snakes of thē I heard a Lutherā preacher at Augusta tel his auditorie that to deal with a Caluinist intēding our Protestāts or Puritanes the best way was to take Gods woord and grease him wel with that about the snowt telling him still that Christe at his last supper sayd Take and eat this is my bodie c. Not suffring him by anie of his Caluinistical shifts to slip from these wordes so may wee conclude quoth hee that either the Caluinist must make Christe a lyer or bee a lyer himself At Francford I heard an Anabaptist demaund of a Caluinist what Scripture hee had for the Christening of children the Caluinist would haue gon about to deduce it by consequence away with your consequenting quoth the Anabaptist for if consequences may bee admitted I wil heare the Papists speak before you you are the verie cooseners of the world you brag and boast of profession of Scripture and when you are put to it then forsooth you are farre enough to seek and not in this matter onlie of Christning of Children but of more matters besydes If I would put you to it and did not spare you for pittie because you are turnd without book alredie I could alleage vnto you sundrie examples of the resolutenes of Hussytes Lutherans Anabaptists and others in their seuerall religions which is such that none of our sermon-makers heer in England can anie whit go beyond them I haue heard somanie of their different pulpit cryes of the light of the Ghospel of the pure woord of God of inward illumination of spirit of sealing it with their blood and such lyke pretensiōs general to all as dulie claymed by the one sorte as by the other that good experience hath taught mee to know such pretensions heer at home to bee as idle fopperies as I haue found thē in other countries abroade serving onlie to lead away fooles that see no further then the length of their noses If such as heer do keep the greatest coyl in their pulpit-crying of their light of the Ghospel and pure woord of God as thogh without all contradiction they were the onlie men lyving vnder the cope of heauen that had it would but dare to appeer among these other seuerall sortes of professors of other lightes of the Ghospel and other puritie of the woord and bee vrged if they will bee belieued before all the world besydes to set down to the manifest view of all men such proofs and reasons for their assurednes of having the truthe as all the rest shall not bee able in the verie lyke manner to produce for theirs Good Lord how would then our English pulpit boasters bee puzled and what pouertie would then their glorious Ghospel bee broght vnto trust mee there could nothing in this case bee better fitting for them thē to transport themselues back agayn into invisibillitie if they haue reserued the f●il for thereby might they saue themselues from becoming by beeing pointed at the obiects of the sporte of all the others And thusmuch with desyre of pardon dare I further anouche that I do not know anie forreyn countrie vpon earth wherein in anie sorte the name of Christianitie is professed where the religion of England in the iudgment of the Learned of anie of these whatsoeuer is fullie and wholie allowed for good not in one principall point or other gainsayed contradicted And whereas manie heer in England do stand verie much vpon the resolutenes of their Foxian Martirs as thogh their sufferance for their Caluinistical cause were a marvelous great argument of the goodnes thereof but which of the other new pretenders cannot produce their Martirs also Husytes and Lutherans are not without store of them and both thinking themselues to bee much wronged by M. Fox The Hussites in beeing robbed by him of their Patriarche Iohn Husse and the Lutherans by beeing robbed by him in lyke sorte of theire much esteemed martir fryer Barnes As for the Anabaptists their number farre exceedeth those of M. Fox and perhaps ten for one They that list to make the calculation may cōpare those which they haue set down in their book of Martirs entituled The Sacrifice of the Lord with the number of those that are in M. Fox his Acts and monuments I wil now ceasse to bee further tedious vnto you but by this which I haue related concerning religion as also concerning your resolution in your intended seruice I leaue you to iudge which of both our courses is best founded Tawney-scarf I protest vnto you you haue so intoxicated my braine that you haue almoste broght mee to stand staggering between hauk and bussard Red-scarf If you wil stand sure from falling leane vnto the better and the stronger syde Tawney-scarf I wil think on the matter Red-scarf Forget not then to consider I pray you euen for your own honor and the honor of our nation that Englishmen stil continewing to serue the Hollanders notwithstanding all the vilanous wronges they haue dōne them do preiudice their own esteem among other nations who may imagin them to bee so basely blynded or bewitched by mistaken Holland Ghospel that they cannot see themselues made by the Hollanders in a manner as their slaues for slaues receaue blowes and serue them that beat them and euen so do our countrimen receaue blowes at the handes of the Hollanders and yet serue them The difference is that slaues are beaten by their Masters at home Englishmen by Hollanders abroad whyle their inconsiderate countrimen serue them at home where if they serued them right they might right some of the wronges which abroad they do them And I cannot enough wonder at the sencelessnes of such giddie pated prentises of London as durst so barbarously abuse an Ambassador of a King of Spayn themselues not knowing anie cause why yet when by letters from the East Indies it was by our own Marchāts signifyed how moste barbarously and vilanously the Hollanders had abused them these considerate youthes were not a whit moued to anger against M. Caroon who carryeth the name of Ambassador for the Holland States but could shew themselues so soft mynded as to let him pas quietly in the streets of London in his Coatche and do him reuerence as if they had thanked him for it But beginning now to feare that I may haue bin to tedious vnto you and to this good compagnie I will with desyre to be pardoned for my freenesse of speech thank you all for your patience heer make an end of this busynes Tawney-scarf And I thank you also for yours Heervpon according to the promisse before made this Toung-combat ciuilie ceased and soon vpon it the Graucsend iorney also and euerie man disposed himself as his affaires further iorney lay FINIS L. B. S. T. L.