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A19428 Father Cotton a Iesuite, the Kings confessour, his two and thirtie demands, to the ministers of France with the answeres added at the end of euerie demand. Also threescore and foure demands proposed to Father Cotton, by way of counter-change. By Peter Moulin, minister of the word of God in the church of Paris. Printed according to the French copie, printed in Paris. Also a new late chalenge, by a learned diuine, to all Papists, in 24. other Popish articles.; Trente-deux demandes proposées par le P. Cotton. English Du Moulin, Pierre, 1568-1658.; Coton, Pierre, 1564-1626.; Barnes, John, fl. 1600-1621. 1614 (1614) STC 5857; ESTC S116356 39,158 65

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supplieth the default of the Baptisme of water and what else doe we say 10. But if we craue formall examples out of the holy Scriptures euery man knoweth that to the Israelites Circumcision was the same which at this day Baptisme is to vs and that the necessitie was alike and yet infinite people were saued vnder the old Testament without Circumcision as all the faithfull women and such as truly repented among the Niniuites 11. But what a presumption was it in them to build for children dying without Baptisme a seuerall Chamber vnder the earth which they tearme the Childrens Limbe whereof we finde not any mention eyther throughout the Scriptures or in all the antiquity of the Church 12. This do they place vnder the earth yet tell they vs not where it shall be when the earth shall not be nor whether these infants shall vndergoe the iudgement in the latter day and what sentence the Iudge shall giue neyther doe they shew vs the reason wherefore the bodies of these children are throwne headlong into a bottomlesse pit which is in the Hospitall called Hostel Dieu at Paris as vnworthy of Buriall III. DEMAND That we ought not to baptise but when there is a Sermon ANSVVERE THis doe not we beleeue A Sermon is seemely but not of absolute necessity None of vs doth beleeue that Baptisme administred without a Sermon is no Baptisme or that it ought to be reiterated True it is that we say that the Scales without writings are vnprofitable so the Sacraments without the Word are vnfruitfull But by the Word we vnderstand the promises of the Gospell and the forme of Baptisme instituted by Iesus Christ and not a Sermon as this Inquisitor weeneth IIII. DEMAND That it is not lawfull to make the signe of the crosse ANSVVERE SO doe not we say yea we could willingly be content to be inioyned to make a million of signes of the Crosse so it might tend no further then to reduce our Aduersaries into the right way Indeed we doe say that the making of the signe of the Crosse vpon the Hoste to expell the force of the wicked Spirits as Pope Innocent saith is as much as to seeke to succour Iesus Christ without necessitie Also that the making of the signe of the Crosse vpon a mans mouth when he yawneth is not the way to stop the Diuels passage who entereth into mans heart not by the mouth but by the eyes eares that is to say by the obiects and speeches whereby God is offended It were therefore more requisite at the hearing of a filthy word or of a Iesuites Sermon to make the signe of the Crosse vpon the eare We also say that when that thing which in the Primitiue Church was a marke of Christian profession grew to be an action of Superstition it was expedient to take it away for the abuse sake the same not being in its owne nature necessarie neither practised by Iesus Christ neither by his Apostles or Disciples Especially the making of the signe of the Crosse vpon the Singing bread as they call it or vpon the consecrated Hoast is in all antiquitie without example for the Liturgies of S. Iames and of Chrysostome are manifestly false and forged of late as making mention of persons that liued not of a long time after and to all antiquitie were vtterly vnknowne V. DEMAND That wee may not hallow or consecrate water and being hallowed that we ought not to vse it ANSVVERE VVEE say not so onely wee say that wee doe indeede finde that the Heathen did vse holy or lustrall water but that wee finde not that euer the Apostles vsed any And because we are not so light of beliefe we demand of our aduersaries whether the word of God doth teach them that water consecrated by either words or signes be of any force against the Diuels for the Gospell sheweth vs the meanes whereby the Apostles cast them out namely by Faith by Prayer and by Fasting Mat. 17.21 but neuer by holy water VI. DEMAND That the bread of the Supper is onely the figure of the body of Iesus Christ ANSVVERE THis is likewise a slander Wee doe indeede beleeue that the bread of the Supper is the figure of the body of Christ by this figure meaning no other then the same which Iesus Christ called Commemoration But that it is onely a figure we say not considering that Saint Paul calleth the Sacrament of Circumcision not onely a signe but also a seale thereby teaching vs that the Sacraments doe not onely signifie but also doe seale Gods promises We doe also beleeue the saying of Saint Paul 1. Cor. 10. That the bread which wee breake is the Communion of the body of Christ For the Sacraments are not onely significatiue of the grace of God but also exhibitiue and doe not onely represent them but also doe present them vnto vs. VII DEMAND That the Church may erre ANSVVERE THis is likewise slaunderous for I beleeue that by Church hee meaneth the same that is spoken of in the Creede also that hee meaneth that wee should say that she may erre in the decision of doubts or matters of Religion wherein hee would make vs belieue that we doe not For we hold that the Church cannot erre in the decision of doubts because it was neuer assembled to decide them neyther did euer make any decision at all For this Church being the Communion of Saints and the assembly of all the elect that are were or shall be vpon the earth as the Apostle to the Hebrewes cap. 12. vers 23. doth define it that it is the assembly and Church of the first borne that are written in heauen it appeareth that this body of the Elect was neuer assembled for the deciding of any matter It therefore neuer erred in such decisions VIII DEMAND That we are not to receiue Traditions ANSVVERE THis is euen such another and disguiseth our beliefe We doe not reiect all manner of Traditions but onely such as are repugnant to the holy Scriptures or that men do forgoe at their pleasures without necessity by them to impose such a yoake vpon consciences as God neuer imposed IX DEMAND That the Saints in glory cannot heare our Prayers ASVVERRE BY Prayers we meane not the sound of words but the conception of his heart that prayeth 1 This the Saints doe not know for the holy Scripture saith that God onely knoweth the hearts of men 1 Reg. 8. v. 99 and 2. Chron. 6. v. 30. And this is one propertie of God whereby the holy Scripture honoureth God viz. by knowing the hearts Acts. 1. v. 24.2 Moreouer there needeth a diuine power to know the thoughts of an hundred thousand persons different in places that poure out their prayers at one time 3. That if in seeing God they did see all things as they would perswade vs they should also see things to come and consequently should know the day of iudgement which neuerthelesse Iesus Christ saith the very