which is drink indeed are nourished up to Eternal life so that while some do eat and drink in that Ordinance unworthily and so eat and drink damnation others by faith feed upon the benefits of Christs death and blood-shed and so are nourished up to Eternal life Answ Is there any thing in the fore-cited place that directs to the use of that which thou cals an Ordinance surely in this thy zeal out-runs thy understanding seeing those be the words of the fore-cited place viz. for as often as ye eat this bread and drink this cup shew ye the Lords death till he come for so it is on the Margent shew ye what is here of direction in these words as to the use of an Ordinance as thou sayest let the wise in heart judge but doth not the Apostles words asmuch if not more signifie to the Corinthians that they might forbear their eating and drinking in that wise as they did eat and drink and their unworthiness was in not discerning of the Lords body and for that cause was many sick and weak c. and for that disorder which was amongst many the Apostle reproves them as for their greediness and drunkenness the like and exhorts them to eat at home in their own houses but he never calls it an Ordinance to be ministred once a Moneth or once a week and that alwayes by some men or man appointed by the rest in their wills and wayes some to buy wine and bread and others to break it and deliver to the rest but Christ did not do so for in the same night in which he was betrayed he took bread and when he had given thanks he brake it and said take eat this is my body this do in remembrance of me after the same manner also he took the cup when he had Supped and did he bid you do so or do you do so after Supper or can you give thanks as he did or do you know what he said when he gave thanks or do you imitate him in saying his very words in one thing viz. this is my body and do you speak your own words in other things as when you give thanks or do you take a piece of bread and a cup of wine and say nothing at all but eat and drink and if you do it not in the same manner which he did it in is it then his Ordinance or your invention seeing Gods Ordinances must be kept as they were delivered and observed as he commanded them otherwise they are none of his and if not his then but a likeness and if a likeness then that which God hath forbidden and so is Idolatry and he an Idolator that so worships and in that state cannot enter into the Kingdom of God And whereas thou sayest some might eat this bread and drink this cup which is also called flesh and blood unworthily Take heed James of calling a lie a plea for truth in love to truth remember the Title of thy book where is that bread and that cup which a man may eat unworthily called flesh and blood as thou positively affirms in thy query it is surely thou discerns not Christs body for if thou did thou wouldst learn to speak truth are not these the words of the Apostle that thou intendst viz. wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread and drink this cup of the Lord unworthily shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord but where is it called flesh and blood surely this is a gross errour of thine not onely to call the outward bread the outward cup which an unworthy and wicked man may eat and drink flesh and blood and if flesh and blood whose flesh and blood is it not Christs flesh and Christs blood and can an unworthy man and woman eat and drink that surely no if Christs words be true and I must believe him before thee James and he saith John 6.54 whosoever eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath Eternal life how sayest thou then in thy query some might eat this bread and drink this cup which thou sayest is also called flesh and blood unworthily but where is the bread the cup which some may eat and drink unworthily called flesh and blood take heed of slandering the Scripture And then thou drawest up thy query into a short conclusion in these words viz. so that while some do eat and drink in that Ordinance unworthily and so eat and drink damnation other by faith feed upon the benefits of Christs death and blood-shed and so are nourished up to Eternal life and herein thou hast made a good confession that while some in that which thou calls an Ordinance eat and drink damnation others who live by faith and feed upon the benefits of Christs death and blood-shed and are not that which thou calls an Ordinance and yet are nourished up to Eternal life and so of what thou hast spoken this is the sum that some in that Ordinance eat and drink damnation and others out of it feed upon the living bread that comes down from heaven and have Eternal life abiding in them Q. 7. Whether those that deny Church fellowship do not forsake their own mercies seeing Gods children have found by sweet experience that it is of singular use for their building upon their most holy faith it being the place of Christs promised presence where he hath commanded the blessing and life for evermore Answ Those that deny that Church that is in God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ Thes 1. and that fellowship that is in the light as he is in the light 1 John â— denyes the true Church-fellowship and forsakes their own mercies and that light in which alone all the Saints ever had all their sweet experiences given them of Gods love and tender mercy to them and in that who ever walked and continued in it built up one another in their most holy faith that being the place of Christs promised presence for there he dwells for ever and out of his light none can meet with him or know him and out of that is the false Church and Church-fellowship and Christian outward and baptism outward that onely washes away the filth of the flesh but knows not the answer of a good conscience by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ for from the true light was and is the false Church and fellowship for they went out from us saith the Apostle who had his fellowship in the light Q. 8. Whether they may not most truely be said to live above Ordinances that faithfully wait upon and live to Christ in the use of them Answ They that wait upon and live to Christ in the use of Ordinances cannot be said to live above them for that which God hath appointed and Ordained as the way to Eternal life and happiness none may live above it for the the way and the life are one and he that is in the way is in the truth and in the life also
baptism was not the Circumcision of the flesh a type of the Circumcision of the heart and was not water Baptism a figure of the inward washing by the Lavor of regeneration and is called a figure 1 Pet. 3.21 of that that saves not the washing away the filth of the flesh which was the outward baptism but the inward washing and answer of a good conscience by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ which is known by all who have their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience by the flesh of Jesus Christ How is Baptism fitted any more to the new witness then any other thing commanded or practiced by the Saints if thou knew the new witness which he that believes hath in himself thou wouldst know there is no more outward water in it then outward fire but thou speaks words by tradition and understandest not what thou sayest was Circumcision any otherwise fitted to the old witness or Testament then as a figure of the true cutting off from the body of sin by the Circumcision of Christ and is Baptism any otherwise fitted to the new Testament then as a figure also and when the substance is come they both end in him who is the substance And for thy saying Christs Disciples were to teach succeeding Disciples what ever he had commanded them c. but water is not mentioned to be commanded them by Christ and therefore not to teach water having it not in charge Again thou sayest he promised his presence with them to the end of the world if his presence with them then is he not a commander to them and are they not to receive the word at is mouth seeing God speaks by him in these last dayes and he is the same yesterday to day and for ever or was and did Christ only speak with and to his twelve disciples and they to deliver over by tradition what he told them or were the Saints without Christs presence for divers hundred years after his departure oâ—t of the world before the New Testament was gathered together and bound in one Book seeing the Epistles were scattered up and down in divers parts of the world some many hundred miles distant one Epistle from another and how long after and by whose command were they gathered together or is Christs presence with his people and yet he speaks not to them imediately or is Christ less powerful then he was or is his love abated or did he speak once for all and will he never speak more imediately or else what doth Christs presence signifie now if not to speak to them lead them and save them otherwise what is man the better for such a presence as he knows not nor is not sensible of or hath Christ ceased to be a King seeing where the presence of a King is there is power or is a man only to believe he hath Christs presence with him while other Lords have Dominion over him or hath Christ left his people to pick out his worship as well as he can here and there a little out of all the Epistles and other Books by their own judgements and understandings Is not this to make the New Testament inferior to the Old where Israels Laws were together in Tables and in some particular places and books as Deut Levit. c If you be the succeeding Disciples and are to observe all things that those were to observe and had in command why are you not going into all Nations to Preach the Gospel in every creature but stay at home in your country or have you not Christs presence with you and so dare not venture too far but what singular thing do you do whereby it may appear you have Christs presence with you and are indeed the succeeding Disciples thou speaks of or is it not rather manifest you are none of his Disciples seeing he never taught nor practiced such customs and conformities to the world as are practiced among many called baptists besides this legible mark they do not love one another but bite and devour one another about those things they call Christs Ordinances and appointments and if this be true which Christ said viz. by this shall all men know you are my Disciples if you love one another then whose Disciples are those who hate one another how is Christs presence with them while these things abide among them Then thou gives thy reason why thou sayest that of water is the one Baptism Paul writes of viz. because the other is not called Baptism but it is called washing by the spirit 1 Cor. 6.11 divers other places as before is proved so it is either the thing or the word thou denyes if the thing it is sufficiently proved to be called washing which is all one with baptizing as Luke 11.38 And when the Pharisee saw it he marvelled that he had not first baptized before dinner or washed as some Translators read it If the word baptism be that which thou denyes where is the word Baptism attributed to fire or where is it said they were baptized with fire and yet thou urges the second of Acts to prove Baptism with fire when there is not the word baptism there onely like as of fire But then thou sayest if it were called Baptism yet were it a Metaphorical and not a proper Baptism c. James thou mayest remember in thy six page thou sayest to the Law and to the testimony if they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in them out of thy own mouth mayest thou be judged where is there one such a word in the Law or testimony as Metaphorical if it be not there to be found may it not be said without offence thou speaks not according to the Law and testimony therefore there is no light in thee for thou sayest plainly it is not a proper baptism surely James thou knowest it not and therefore miscals it for if ever thou had witnessed it or knew what it were to be baptized into Christ and to put on Christ thou would not so speak of it to call it not a proper Baptism What did John who baptized with water baptize with a proper baptism and Christ of whom he bore witness baptize with an improper baptism or a baptism not proper was ever such grosse absurdities affirmed as that the messenger and servant should baptize with the proper Baptism and the Master himself with a Baptism not proper Is the servant become above his master or is the Masters work onely Metaphorical and not proper what is not the washing away of sins a proper washing and is not the lavor of regeneration a proper washing or baptising and is not that with wch those Apostles and others who were baptized or washed by the spirit a proper washing or baptizing and those that had their bodies washed with pure water was not that a proper washing Is not this to darken counsel again by words without knowledge and by mens traditions and
this place is to satisfie his Disciples that murmured about his telling them of of eating his flesh and drinking his blood and to take them off from looking at his outward fleshly presence as if his outward flesh or outward words were that which they were to feed upon or alwaies to expect to hear but there was another flesh to be known and other work to be read in the inward man by the Spirit for that quickneth and those words are Spirit and life but the flesh profiteth nothing so by this may the enlightned understanding see and read plainly the scope and drift of Christs Words and not to be spoken in that sence which thou and others in your vain minds conceive but have a deeper understanding which the children of light are acquainted withal so that the Query yet remains unanswered by thee viz. what then is the flesh that profiteth nothing And for thy answer to the second part of the Query viz. and what is that flesh after which Christ was once known yet henceforth know we him so no more to which thou answerest To know any man or Christ after the flesh it was to know according to the natural line of Abram and so according to the first Covenant but now know we him no more that is not by a natural descent but he that is in Christ is a new Creature and all the old things of the first Covenant are passed away and all things are become new and thou quotes Philip. 3.3 4 5. and saith We will help to clear the sence of this place viz. what is that flesh after which Christ was once known yet henceforth know we him so no more By this answer to the Query thou hast but manifested thy ignorance of Christ after the Spirit for doth the knowledge of Christ after the Spirit teach to deny the natural descent of Christ after the flesh seeing it is reckoned up as one of the Israelites Priviledges viz. of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came who is over all God blessed for ever Amen Rom. 9.4 5. Or is Christ changed from what he was Or is he the same yesterday and to day and for ever And doth the Apostle Paul teach to forget the Genealogy of Christ from Abram Or hath he forgotten his love to his brethren and kinsmen according to the flesh which he saith Rom. 9.3 he could wish himself separated from Christ for them Or doth he instrust children after they are come to the knowledge of Christ no more to know their Parents after the flesh or natural descent or any other man after any natural line Surely to say so had been crime enough against the people called Quakers then might thou have had some ground to cry out of their disrespect to Superiours and of the neglect of children in not obeying their Parents and subjects in not giving honour to Magistrates and of servants in not obeying of their Masters after the flesh which in thy Book thou seems to blame the Quakers for their remisness therein and dost thou do the same thing Or dost thou go about to interpret Pauls words to such a sence Whereas he himself was so far from denying his natural descent or linage or outward Priviledge that upon occasion he reckons it up again and again and stands upon it and is not condemned for it and doth he write to the Corinthians to know no man after the natural line or descent No not Christ himself What doth Paul make void Matthews and Lukes reckoning up of the natural line or descent of Christ from Abraham Are we no more to know Christ so What do the Christians with it in their Bibles then if Christ be no more to be known so But let us see if the Apostle Paul have one word tending that way in that place thou quotes 2 Cor. 5.16 For he is speaking how the love of Christ constrained them at the 14. ver and the cause of it because saith he we thus judge that if one died for all then were all dead and that he died for all that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves but unto him which died for them and rose again Wherefore from henceforth know we no man according to the flesh for so it is and some translations read it so yea though we have known Christ according to the flesh yet now henceforth know we him no more Therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creature old things are past away behold all things are become new And all things are of God who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ c. James Pope what ground is here for thy conceived imagination therefore wait upon the Lord in the light of his Son that thou may be made alive by God by being his workmanship in Christ Jesus and then thou wilt know how the word henceforth in the 15. ver answers to the word henceforth in the 16. ver and then thou wilt see how such inventions and interpretations of thy own brain are some of those old things which then thou wilt behold passing away as thou becomes a new Creation and all things will be of God and in that day thou wilt know the first Covenant and its vanishing by the new everlasting Covenant which is Gods free gift but known to none who are alive without the Law and have their first husband living such must know a bitter cup and a day of death before ever they can be married to Christ Take this in love to thy Soul James Pope for this is the Word of the Lord to thee and is of nearer concernment to thee then as yet thou art aware of And for that of Philip. 3.3 4 5. it proves nothing of thy conceit and invention but rather may serve to condemn thee who art comparing outward circumcision and outward washing together as being fitted to the New Testament as outward circumcision was to the Old but we are the Circumcision which worship God in the Spirit and have no confidence in the flesh neither Faith in any outward washing with outward water but our Faith stands in Christ alone in whom we are compleat both as to the true Circumcision and to the one Baptism and to the one bread in which we have Communion together in the body and as many as are joyned to the Lord are one Spirit and are of one heart and one Soul and do not deny any of the Gospel Ordinances or plead for the abrogating of them as thou saist the Query seems to suppose but this we plead against will-worship and all likenesses and dead imitations in the worship of God for by the Gospel of our Salvation are we made alive and do not rush into Gods service without fear and the leadings of his Spirit having in times past felt by experience and smarted for having a form of godliness but not sensible of the power and a name to live and accounted as worshippers but were in the