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word_n blood_n bread_n consecration_n 4,106 5 10.7048 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A61627 Several conferences between a Romish priest, a fanatick chaplain, and a divine of the Church of England concerning the idolatry of the Church of Rome, being a full answer to the late dialogues of T.G. Stillingfleet, Edward, 1635-1699. 1679 (1679) Wing S5667; ESTC R18131 239,123 580

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say_v if_o christ_n be_v the_o sacrifice_n he_o must_v be_v slay_v again_o at_o every_o mass_n as_o he_o be_v once_o on_o the_o cross_n or_o you_o can_v assign_v no_o destruction_n which_o you_o say_v be_v necessary_a to_o such_o a_o true_a and_o proper_a sacrifice_n r._n p._n do_v not_o you_o observe_v t._n g.'s_n word_n that_o christ_n be_v whole_a under_o either_o species_n and_o his_o blood_n separate_v from_o his_o body_n not_o real_o but_o mystical_o only_a and_o in_o representation_n p._n d._n how_o be_v that_o whole_a christ_n under_o the_o bread_n and_o whole_a christ_n under_o the_o wine_n and_o the_o blood_n separate_v from_o the_o body_n not_o real_o but_o mystical_o only_a and_o by_o representation_n this_o be_v admirable_a stuff_n and_o true_a mystical_a divinity_n if_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n do_v remain_v whole_a and_o entire_a where_o be_v the_o true_a proper_a sacrifice_n where_o be_v the_o change_n make_v if_o not_o in_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n if_o that_o be_v uncapable_a of_o a_o change_n how_o can_v it_o be_v a_o true_a and_o proper_a sacrifice_n if_o the_o blood_n be_v not_o real_o separate_v from_o the_o body_n where_o be_v the_o mactation_n which_o must_v be_v in_o a_o propitiatory_a sacrifice_n if_o christ_n do_v remain_v whole_a and_o entire_a after_o all_o the_o sacrificial_a act_n where_o i_o say_v be_v the_o true_a and_o proper_a sacrifice_n t._n g._n have_v far_o better_o say_v and_o more_o agreeable_o to_o scripture_n antiquity_n and_o reason_n that_o there_o be_v no_o real_a and_o proper_a sacrifice_n on_o the_o altar_n but_o only_o mystical_a and_o by_o representation_n r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n say_v that_o religion_n which_o admit_v no_o external_a visible_a sacrifice_n 512._o must_v needs_o be_v deficient_a in_o the_o most_o signal_n part_v of_o the_o public_a worship_n of_o god_n p._n d._n i_o pray_v remember_v it_o be_v a_o external_a and_o visible_a sacrifice_n which_o you_o contend_v for_o and_o now_o tell_v i_o where_o it_o be_v in_o your_o church_n do_v it_o lie_v in_o the_o mimical_a gesture_n of_o the_o priest_n at_o the_o altar_n in_o imitation_n of_o christ_n on_o the_o cross_n if_o that_o be_v it_o the_o necessary_a consumption_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n will_v be_v no_o comfortable_a doctrine_n to_o the_o priest_n do_v it_o lie_v in_o the_o consecration_n of_o the_o element_n which_o be_v visible_a but_o you_o say_v the_o essence_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n consist_v in_o the_o change_n and_o we_o can_v see_v no_o visible_a change_n make_v in_o they_o and_o therefore_o there_o be_v no_o external_a and_o visible_a sacrifice_n beside_o if_o the_o sacrifice_n do_v lie_v in_o the_o change_n of_o the_o element_n after_o consecration_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n than_o the_o element_n be_v the_o thing_n sacrifice_v and_o not_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n for_o the_o destructive_a change_n be_v as_o to_o the_o element_n and_o not_o as_o to_o the_o body_n of_o christ._n or_o do_v it_o lie_v in_o the_o swallow_a down_o and_o consumption_n of_o the_o species_n after_o consecration_n by_o the_o priest_n but_o here_o likewise_o the_o change_n be_v in_o the_o accident_n and_o not_o in_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n which_o remain_v whole_a and_o entire_a though_o the_o species_n be_v consume_v and_o i_o think_v there_o be_v some_o difference_n between_o change_v one_o seat_n and_o be_v sacrifice_v for_o all_o that_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v pretend_v to_o be_v change_v in_o be_v only_o its_o being_n no_o long_o under_o the_o species_n but_o t._n g._n i_o suppose_v will_v allow_v it_o to_o be_v whole_a and_o entire_a still_o do_v it_o then_o lie_v in_o pronounce_v the_o word_n of_o consecration_n upon_o which_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v under_o the_o species_n of_o bread_n and_o the_o blood_n under_o that_o of_o wine_n and_o so_o separate_v from_o the_o body_n but_o this_o can_v least_o of_o all_o be_v since_o t._n g._n assure_v we_o that_o whole_a christ_n be_v under_o the_o bread_n as_o well_o as_o under_o the_o wine_n and_o so_o there_o can_v be_v so_o much_o as_o a_o moment_n of_o real_a separation_n between_o they_o and_o we_o know_v how_o necessary_a for_o other_o purpose_n the_o doctrine_n of_o concomitancy_n be_v tell_v i_o then_o where_o be_v your_o external_a and_o visible_a sacrifice_n which_o you_o boast_v so_o much_o of_o since_o according_a to_o your_o own_o principle_n there_o be_v nothing_o that_o belong_v to_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o sacrifice_n be_v external_a and_o visible_a and_o consequent_o your_o own_o church_n labour_v under_o the_o defect_n t._n g._n complain_v of_o r._n p._n but_o what_o make_v dr._n st._n so_o bitter_a against_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o altar_n since_o the_o most_o true_a and_o genuine_a son_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v allow_v it_o etc._n as_o mr._n thorndike_n dr._n heylin_n and_o bishop_n andrews_n and_o do_v not_o this_o rather_o look_v like_o betray_v the_o church_n of_o england_n than_o defend_v it_o p._n d._n i_o see_v now_o you_o be_v wheel_v about_o to_o your_o first_o post_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v time_n to_o give_v you_o a_o space_n of_o breathe_v your_o great_a business_n be_v to_o set_v we_o at_o variance_n among_o ourselves_o but_o you_o have_v hitherto_o fail_v in_o your_o attempt_n and_o i_o hope_v will_v do_v i_o do_v not_o think_v any_o two_o or_o three_o man_n though_o never_o so_o learn_v make_v the_o church_n of_o england_n her_o sense_n be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o the_o public_a act_n and_o office_n belong_v to_o it_o and_o in_o the_o article_n to_o which_o t._n g._n sometime_o appeal_v 31._o your_o sacrifice_n on_o the_o altar_n be_v call_v blasphemous_a figment_n and_o dangerous_a imposture_n but_o as_o to_o these_o three_o person_n i_o answer_v thus_o 1._o mr._n thorndike_n as_o i_o have_v show_v already_o 88_o declare_v against_o the_o true_a proper_a sacrifice_n define_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n as_o a_o innovation_n and_o a_o contradiction_n and_o that_o which_o he_o plead_v for_o be_v that_o the_o eucharist_n be_v a_o commemorative_n and_o representative_a sacrifice_n about_o which_o dr._n st._n will_v never_o contend_v with_o he_o or_o any_o one_o else_o and_o immediate_o after_o the_o word_n cite_v by_o t._n g._n he_o add_v these_o 40._o it_o be_v therefore_o enough_o that_o the_o eucharist_n be_v the_o sacrifice_n of_o christ_n on_o the_o cross_n as_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o christ_n on_o the_o cross_n be_v represent_v renew_v revive_v and_o restore_v by_o it_o and_o as_o every_o representation_n be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o same_o thing_n with_o that_o which_o it_o represent_v 2._o pet._n heylins_n word_n be_v express_o only_a for_o a_o commemorative_n sacrifice_n 24._o as_o t._n g._n himself_o produce_v they_o and_o therefore_o i_o wonder_v what_o t._n g._n mean_v in_o cite_v they_o at_o large_a for_o he_o quote_v the_o english_a liturgy_n for_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o praise_n and_o thanksgiving_n and_o s._n chrysostom_n call_v it_o the_o remembrance_n of_o a_o sacrifice_n and_o many_o of_o our_o learned_a writer_n a_o commemorative_a sacrifice_n what_o be_v there_o in_o all_o this_o in_o the_o least_o repugnant_a to_o what_o dr._n st._n have_v deliver_v r._n p._n but_o he_o quote_v bishop_n andrews_n say_v take_v from_o the_o mass_n your_o transubstantiation_n and_o we_o will_v have_v no_o difference_n with_o you_o about_o the_o sacrfiice_fw-la p._n d._n bishop_n andrews_n call_v the_o eucharist_n a_o commemorative_n sacrifice_n 184._o and_o he_o say_v it_o be_v proper_o eucharistical_a or_o of_o the_o nature_n of_o peace-offering_n concern_v which_o the_o law_n be_v that_o he_o that_o offer_v shall_v partake_v of_o they_o and_o a_o little_a after_o follow_v those_o word_n you_o mention_n to_o which_o he_o add_v we_o yield_v you_o that_o there_o be_v a_o remembrance_n of_o christ_n sacrifice_n but_o we_o shall_v never_o yield_v that_o your_o christ_n be_v make_v of_o bread_n be_v there_o sacrifice_v which_o be_v the_o very_a thing_n that_o t._n g._n be_v so_o angry_a with_o dr._n st._n about_o and_o have_v not_o you_o brave_o prove_v that_o dr._n st._n have_v herein_o go_v against_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o genuine_a son_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n if_o you_o have_v any_o thing_n yet_o leave_v which_o you_o think_v material_a i_o pray_v let_v we_o have_v it_o now_o for_o fear_v lest_o t._n g._n make_v use_n of_o it_o to_o stuff_n out_o another_o book_n r._n p._n i_o think_v we_o be_v near_o the_o bottom_n p._n d._n so_o i_o imagine_v by_o the_o dregs_o which_o come_v last_o r._n p._n there_o be_v one_o thing_n yet_o leave_v for_o a_o close_a 523._o which_o be_v dr._n st._n say_v suppose_v this_o sacrifice_n be_v allow_v yet_o this_o do_v not_o prove_v that_o we_o reserve_v any_o
in_o euclid_n be_v plain_a than_o this_o r._n p._n but_o i_o tell_v you_o we_o do_v not_o worship_v the_o creature_n but_o the_o body_n of_o christ._n p._n d._n i_o tell_v you_o again_o if_o there_o be_v a_o creature_n you_o do_v worship_n it_o for_o you_o give_v adoration_n to_o what_o be_v before_o you_o be_v it_o what_o it_o will_v if_o it_o be_v a_o creature_n you_o adore_v it_o r._n p._n but_o we_o say_v it_o be_v not_o a_o creature_n we_o worship_v p._n d._n do_v not_o you_o give_v adoration_n to_o that_o which_o be_v consecrate_v whether_o it_o remain_v a_o creature_n or_o not_o after_o consecration_n at_o the_o elevation_n of_o the_o host_n at_z the_o carrying_z it_o about_o at_o the_o expose_v of_o it_o on_o the_o altar_n you_o worship_v that_o which_o be_v consecrate_v do_v you_o not_o r._n p._n we_o worship_v that_o which_o be_v bread_n before_o consecration_n but_o after_o be_v no_o long_o so_o but_o the_o body_n of_o christ._n p._n d._n but_o if_o it_o shall_v remain_v bread_n after_o consecration_n what_o do_v you_o adore_v then_o be_v it_o not_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n r._n p._n yes_o but_o we_o believe_v it_o be_v not_o the_o bread_n p._n d._n that_o be_v not_o the_o question_n what_o you_o believe_v for_o they_o that_o believe_v god_n to_o be_v the_o soul_n of_o the_o world_n worship_v the_o part_n of_o it_o upon_o a_o supposition_n which_o if_o it_o have_v be_v true_a will_v have_v justify_v their_o worship_n every_o jot_n as_o well_o as_o you_o can_v do_v you_o and_o yet_o they_o be_v gross_a idolater_n for_o all_o that_o nay_o i_o will_v say_v more_o to_o you_o there_o never_o be_v idolater_n in_o the_o world_n that_o do_v not_o proceed_v upon_o a_o false_a supposition_n and_o it_o may_v be_v not_o so_o unreasonable_a as_o you_o this_o can_v therefore_o excuse_v you_o if_o your_o supposition_n prove_v false_a as_o no_o doubt_n it_o be_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n do_v not_o remain_v after_o consecration_n but_o i_o now_o ask_v you_o what_o your_o adoration_n be_v in_o the_o opinion_n of_o those_o person_n who_o do_v firm_o believe_v the_o sacramental_a element_n to_o remain_v in_o their_o natural_a substance_n be_v it_o not_o the_o give_v divine_a worship_n to_o a_o creature_n and_o be_v not_o the_o give_v divine_a worship_n to_o a_o creature_n idolatry_n so_o that_o according_a to_o the_o sense_n of_o our_o church_n the_o worship_n of_o the_o host_n must_v be_v idolatry_n r._n p._n but_o what_o have_v you_o get_v by_o all_o this_o for_o we_o confess_v ourselves_o that_o if_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n do_v remain_v after_o consecration_n we_o be_v as_o great_a idolater_n as_o they_o that_o worship_v a_o red_a cloth_n p._n d._n upon_o my_o word_n you_o have_v need_v then_o to_o be_v well_o assure_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n do_v not_o remain_v and_o yet_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o we_o can_v be_v certain_a of_o nothing_o in_o the_o world_n if_o we_o 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find_v it_o above_o a_o hundred_o year_n before_o in_o the_o liturgy_n of_o edw._n 6._o to_o which_o t._n g._n answer_n 19_o that_o the_o various_a fate_n of_o this_o rubric_n first_o in_o not_o be_v annex_v till_o the_o second_o liturgy_n of_o edw._n 6._o and_o be_v cast_v out_o again_o in_o the_o year_n 1562._o and_o then_o admit_v again_o almost_o a_o hundred_o year_n after_o be_v no_o eviction_n to_o he_o that_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n be_v the_o dogmatical_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n p._n d._n if_o this_o be_v all_o the_o declaration_n our_o church_n have_v make_v of_o her_o sense_n and_o the_o intention_n of_o this_o rubric_n be_v only_o to_o declare_v this_o point_n of_o idolatry_n there_o be_v some_o probability_n in_o what_o t._n g._n suggest_v but_o i_o have_v show_v already_o how_o full_o our_o church_n have_v declare_v her_o sense_n about_o romish_a idolatry_n by_o other_o way_n and_o the_o design_n of_o this_o rubric_n be_v not_o to_o express_v 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of_o it_o not_o to_o be_v the_o deny_v adoration_n to_o be_v due_a in_o regard_n of_o christ_n body_n be_v present_a spiritual_o but_o true_o in_o the_o sacrament_n but_o only_o that_o no_o adoration_n ought_v to_o be_v do_v to_o any_o corporal_a presence_n of_o christ_n natural_a flesh_n and_o blood_n as_o the_o word_n corporal_n be_v take_v to_o signify_v the_o natural_a manner_n of_o a_o body_n be_v present_a for_o which_o he_o give_v these_o reason_n 1._o because_o those_o word_n in_o the_o second_o liturgy_n of_o edw._n 6._o no_o adoration_n ought_v to_o be_v do_v to_o any_o real_a or_o essential_a be_v of_o christ_n natural_a flesh_n and_o blood_n be_v now_o change_v into_o any_o corporal_a presence_n of_o christ_n natural_a flesh_n and_o blood_n 2._o because_o the_o protestant_a divine_n do_v yield_v the_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n body_n for_o which_o he_o quote_v bishop_n taylor_n and_o bishop_n cousin_n and_o he_o desire_v dr._n st._n so_o to_o explain_v these_o word_n as_o not_o to_o undermine_v the_o constant_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n concern_v the_o real_a presence_n and_o leave_v we_o nothing_o but_o pure_a zuinglianism_n in_o the_o place_n of_o it_o p._n d._n i_o be_o so_o much_o his_o friend_n that_o at_o this_o time_n i_o will_v undertake_v this_o task_n for_o he_o first_o we_o must_v consider_v the_o word_n of_o the_o rubric_n 2._o how_o this_o sense_n of_o it_o can_v be_v reconcile_v with_o the_o real_a presence_n as_o own_v by_o the_o church_n of_o england_n 1._o for_o the_o meaning_n of_o the_o rubric_n we_o be_v to_o consider_v that_o the_o rubric_n deny_v adoration_n to_o be_v intend_v either_o unto_o the_o sacramental_a bread_n and_o wine_n or_o unto_o any_o corporal_a presence_n of_o christ_n natural_a flesh_n and_o blood_n and_o after_o it_o give_v two_o distinct_a reason_n for_o deny_v adoration_n to_o either_o of_o these_o 1._o to_o the_o sacramental_a bread_n and_o wine_n for_o this_o reason_n because_o they_o 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