Tertullian in his booke of the Resurrection maketh after hee had disputed against them which denied the same to be possible with God And it seemeth they then said as the Ministers haue formerly said that there was something by the scriture impossible with God to wit that he could not lye nor deceiue and that thereof they tooke occasion to goe further and to dispute that the resurrection was to him also impossible So that the Ministers because God cannot lye haue endeuouted â—o inferre that to put one body in two places was impossible for him as well as to lye and deceiue Tertullian in the end accordeth with the Marcionists and saith Rather had I confesse that God cannot deceiue and that hee is onely weake and impotent in deceit to the end that thereby hee seeme not to haue taught and spoken one way and to haue otherwise disposed of the deed contained in his word Then if hee cannot concludeth Tertullian deceiue and abuse the resurrection must be beleeued as it is carried in his word and not otherwise least deceit be found in the word of God The Doctors say also they willingly confesse that God cannot lye nor deceiue and that it must therefore be beleeued that so he hath willed and ordained the truth of the Supper in such sort and not otherwise as his word soundeth and beareth Now so it is that his word plainly and expresly beareth that he affirmeth that what hee gaue with his hands to his Apostles to eat was his body deliuered for vs we must therefore beleeue that his word saith not otherwise then his will is least he be esteemed a lyar And that as he saith This is my body This is my bloud that it is so indeed The which the Doctors by Gods assistance will declare in the next Conference to shewe that he hath not onely power to establish his body in the holy Sacrament but also that he hath willed it and so hath done it Artictles proposed by the Doctosr for the next Conference and others following according to the order of the said Articles ALthough following the order of Conference touching the Apostles Creed they ought secondly to entreate of an other article as the Ministers themselues in the beginning of the Conference not onely accorded but demaunded offering the imprinted Articles of their confession bearing date the 1564. yeare from the first vnto the last to be examined by the Doctors Neuerthelesse the Doctors seeing it will not be much from the purpose after they haue intreated of the omnipotencie of God which extendeth to bee powerfull to cause the body of Iesus Christ to be in heauen and in the Sacrament in continuing that matter to enter into the probation of his will they are content to shewe that he hath not power onely but that also he hath wil and are consequently determined to refute all the blasphemies and heresies contained in their Supper which are called reformed to the end also they be not deemed to flye the list touching the Supper and the Masse as the Ministers haue reproached them Neuerthelesse they protest that their meaning is after the conclusion of this matter and resolution giuen to returne to examine the wonderfull errors of the Ministers which in number are many against the other articles of the Creed which thing the Ministers vnwilling that the Doctors should pursue the order begun do greatly feare as one may see and iudge foreseeing that in the next Conference an other blasphemie would be shewed them which the Church calling it selfe Reformed against the goodnesse of God after Caluins doctrine maintaineth to wit that God worketh in the reprobate the euill and sinne they commit which is an execrable Atheisme and no lesse then the deniall of the omnipotencie of God And they that can read these Conferences continuing to the ende of the discussion of the Ministers errors and of their religioÌ„ against all the articles of the Creed shall bee likewise abashed to vnderstand the absurdities and blasphemies issuing from the same An other point there is yet which inuiteth the Ministers to demaund tractation of the Supper which is that they haue the whole matter alreadie squared by many of their Sect who haue written of the same And chiefly the great booke of Peter Martir will not faile them Wherby they shal be furnished with I know not what infamous obiectioÌ„s of some passages of the Fathers broken depraued or euilly applied to impugne in shew the truth of the body in the Sacrament But for defence of all other their errors the Ministers are meanely armed and their conscience doth sufficiently witnesse that by the scripture decision of generall Councells and common accord of the writings of all the auncient Fathers no apparance to the contrary they are conuinced and condemned of their errors against the said Creed Now to enter into the examination of the Supper of the Ministers the Doctors do maintaine that it is a prophane eating and drinking not differing from common eating and drinking but in that it is worse that they abuse the holy institution of the Supper of Iesus and pollute and defile such their banket with all impietie blasphemie They also maintaine that the Ministers do great iniurie to the Sacrament of Iesus Christ falsly to attribute to such their prophane and polluted banket the name of Sacrament And to the end that the proofe thereof be more cleare the Doctors demaund of the Ministers whether they receiue one common doctrine receiued not only in the Church Catholique but also almost in all Sects which are seperated from it That is that in the confection of the Sacraments there be two essentiall and necessarie things the matter or element and the word Secondly what word with the Element is necessary to make a Sacrament and namely that which the Ministers do call the Sacrament of the Supper and whether it behoueth to vse certaine words or no Thirdly whether the word haue some power or effectuall working in the Sacrament what whether it worke vpon something in the matter of the bread and wine Fourthly whether by the same word consecration bee made of the matter of the Sacrament or no Fiftly whether by the word consecration be not made of the matter to wit how the same consecration is made and by what vertue the same is made Sixtly whether besides the bread and wine and the spirituall graces and benefites of Iesus Christ the true body and bloud of Iesus Christ in their proper substance and not in spirituall effect onely be really receiued in the Supper And the Doctors do demand vpon this article a plaine confession of the faith of the Ministers They demaund further whether in receiuing the bread before taking of the wine they receiue not by the eating of the bread the body and bloud of Iesus Christ or the body onely Briefly whether they admit that which Diuines call a Concomitance of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ They demaund also whether
to the ende it might wash vs. Of this as before do the Ministers inferre two things The one is that the word of consecration is not as is said a simple pronuntiation but a publike and manifest declaration of the institution and ordinance and of the whole mysterie of the death of Iesus Christ The other that the signes and Elements consecrated are not chaunged as touching their nature and substance but onely as touching the vse and signification and that onely during the action wherein they doo serue For to consecrate the signes as the water in Baptisme and the bread and wine in the Supper is no other thing then to depute and make them serue to an holy and sacred vse by the publike declaration of the ordinance of God made to this ende and not to chaunge them as touching theyr nature and substance The which vanishing away and beeing abolished there should remaine no more of the signe nor consequently of the Sacrament Euen so then as the water in baptisme after consecration abideth water without that the nature or substance thereof in ought chaungeth or altereth So also the bread and wine in the Supper remaine as touching theyr substance such after consecration as they were before else should there not bee Analogie nor mutuall agreement betweene the signe and the thing signified For what comparison or conformitie is there betweene the accidents of bread and the truth of the body of Iesus Christ Seeing that the accidents of bread as the whitenesse and roundnesse destitute of theyr substance as the Sophisters doo falsly imagine could not nourish nor sustaine the bodie and by that meane should not be proper to signifie that the flesh and bloud of Iesus Christ doo nourish and sustaine our soules This then must bee holden for a thing resolued that the bread and the wine abide in their substance which thing is clearely prooued by that which Iesus Christ speaking of that hee giuen his Disciples to drinke in the Supper calleth it namely fruite of the Vine Which cannot bee applyed to accidents but ought necessarily to bee vnderstood of wine in it proper substance Also by that which Saint Paul saith calling the Elements of the Supper three seuerall times bread and wine yea after they haue beene consecrated Also by that which hee sayeth else-where Wee which are many are one bread and one body for as much as wee are all partakers of one selfe-same bread For there hee will teach vs by the comparison of bread and wine hee proposeth vnto vs that as it is composed of many graines so pasted and mingled together that one cannot distinguish nor seperate one from an other So also ought all the faithfull in the Church to be so conioyned and vnited together in one selfe-same body that it seemeth and appeareth they are members one of an other Now very foolish and from the purpose should this comparison be if the bread which we eate in the Supper and vpon which this comparison is founded were not true bread Also by that which Gelacius Bishop of Rome writing against Eutiches saith The Sacraments saith he which we take is a thing diuine and neuerthelesse doth it not cease to bee substance and nature of bread and wine Also by that which writeth Theodoret in his first Dialogue and in these proper termes The Lord hath honoured with the name of his body and of his bloud the visible signes which doo represent them neuerthelesse without changing the nature of them but onely adding grace to nature The same Author in the second Dialogue speaking likewise of the bread and wine which are distributed in the Supper saith as followeth After sanctification these misticall signes depart not from their nature for they abide in their proper substance forme and figure By meanes whereof one seeth and handleth them after consecration nor more nor lesse then he did before Also by that which saith S. Iohn Chrisostome writing to the Monke Cesarius whose words are such In the Supper we call that which is presented bread before it be sanctified and after sanctification thereof by the diuine grace and meane of the Minister it hath no more the name bread but of the body of the Lord neuerthelesse the nature of the bread is there still remaining By the passages aforesaid as well of the holy scripture as of the auntient Doctors and others which might be yet alledged for this purpose it appeareth that the bread and wine in the Supper abide alwayes as hath bene said in their proper nature and substance as well after consecration as before And it must not be doubted that the faith of the auncient Church hath not euer bene such and that transubstantiation was not setled nor holden in the Romane Church for an Article of faith vntill the time of Innocent the third To gainesay and reiect whatsoeuer hath bene said touching the nature and substance of signes which remaine after consecration the aduersaries of this doctrine do ordinarily alledge that which Iesus Christ saith speaking of the bread in the institution of the Supper Take eate this is my body And resting vpon the naturall and proper signification of the words they obstinately defend that the substance of bread vanisheth in the consecratiō and that there remaineth no other substance but that of the body of Iesus Christ The reason thereof is because they obserue not the figures and maner of speaking which be ordinarie and vsuall in the holy scripture alwayes and as often as the matter of the Saments is questionable For then the name of the things signified is ordinarily attributed to the signes which do signifie and represent them as the name of a couenant is attributed to Circumcision because it was deputed to signifie and confirme the same The Lambe for like reason is called the Passeouer and Baptisme the washing of regeneration not because they bee like and semblable things as the signes and mysteries signified by them but for the conformitie that is betweene them the signes as saith Saint Augustine take oftentimes the name of the things which they represent The error then commeth because they take and vnderstand the fashions and maners of figuratiue speeches as if they were proper and naturall Now that this kinde of speaking Take yee and eate yee This is my body is figuratiue it appeareth by that which our Lord Iesus Christ addeth after the Cup saying This Cup is the new Testament in my bloud which is shead for you Where he calleth the Cup Testament and new Couenant in his bloud Wherein it behoueth necessarily to confesse that there is a figure and that without the same they cannot well vnderstand nor fitly interpret the said passages For it is a thing manifest that a couenant which is a contract and bargaine betweene parties made and conceiued vnder a certaine promise and word is not wine And neuerthelesse it is so called by figure for as much as the wine which is distributed in the
the Supper ouer and besides the assurance which it giueth them of the participation they haue in the flesh of Iesus Christ for their redemption doth worke in them remission of sinnes Lastly they demaund whether one receiueth any thing by the Supper which he could not receiue without the Supper or whether without paine taking to go the Supper or beeing present thereat one may as well receiue the bodie and graces of Iesus Christ as if hee were present at the Supper The Doctors will afterwards debate the other articles contained in the Ministers last writing for as much as the precedent demaunds ought to be first examined as grounds of other articles proposed by the Ministers Moreouer after the confutation of the Supper of the Ministers and the confirmation of the reall presence of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the holy Sacrament the Doctors by order and without confusion will clearly teach by the pure and expresse word of God that the Masse was instituted and said by Iesus Christ and that he commaunded his Apostles to say it which thing then following the ordinance of their Maister they afterwards performed That the Masse is a true sacrifice of the lawe Euangelique That they which reiect the Masse and admit in the Church no externall sacrifice nor Priesthood are without the true lawe without true Religion and therein worse then Idolaters themselues That the Masse auaileth to obtaine remission of sinnes fauour and grace of God and that it auaileth both for the quicke and the dead That it is not an abuse in the Church if the Priest in the Masse do communicate alone when they that are present will not communicate That they commit an horrible blasphemie which call the adoration of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the Sacrament adoration of bread and wine and falsly call such worship of the body of Iesus Christ Idolatrie To be short that there is nothing in the Masse at this day ordained and celebrated which in it selfe is not good and holy and agreeable to the word of God The Doctors do admonish the Ministers to answere to the demaunds here aboue written to purpose plainely and by order Sunday 28. of Iuly in the yeare aforesaid The Ministers answere to the writings of the Doctors sent to thē by my Lord de Niuernois the 28. day of Iuly about seuen of the clocke in the euening in the 1566. yeare THe Doctors reproach the Ministers in the beginning of their writing that in their former complaint against thē they immitate the Donatists wherein they verifie that which the Ministers heretofore haue oftentimes shewed them to wit that the most part of their writings are imployed in repetitions iniuries scoffes and inuectiues rather then in good arguments and reasons And they say that the example of the Donatists is much more proper to bee applyed to them then to the Ministers for as much as the Donatists would restraine the name of the Church which vniuersally comprehendeth all the elect and faithfull that are and euer were and attribute the same to the sole company of them which follow their customes and errors as the Doctors at this day approue not others for the Catholike and vniuersall Church then they which follow the traditions and abuses of the Romane Church Moreouer the Donatists did persecute them which were contrarie to their doctrine and vsed violence and all crueltie against them that they could deuise as Saint Augustine in many places doth recyte Now what in time past hath bene the rage and furie as well of the Doctors as of their complices Priests and hypocriticall Monkes against poore Christians each one knoweth And there is not he which knoweth not now both by their Sermons writings and conferences what is their hate and spight against the children and seruants of God and what pleasure should they haue to roote them out were theyr power answerable to their will whereby one may iudge whether they or the Ministers come nearer to the likenesse and example of the Donatists And whereas the Doctors adde that the Ministers cease not to bee blasphemers because they reiect and detest the name thereof The Ministers answere that the Doctors also leaue not to be false accusers because they disauow and denie the name And that the effects do shewe of the one side and the other to whom such crimes and names may appertaine and be attributed And touching that which the Doctors in the same article say that it is blasphemy against the goodnesse of God to impute vnto him that hee is the author of vice and of sinne The Ministers confesse it and do adde that it is blasphemy also against his truth to say that with him there is yea and nay as doo they which vnder a colour and false pretext to establish the omnipotencie of GGD doo propose that hee can cause one bodie at one selfe-same instant to bee in diuers places to wit that it is and is not Touching that which the Doctors afterwards say that the Ministers erre in the grounds of Gods omnipotencie for as much as they haue said that he was almightie because he doth whatsoeuer hee will and that nothing can hinder or with-hold the execution of his counsailes The Ministers answere that therein they haue followed Saint Augustines definition of the omnipotencie of God in the 96. Chapter of his Enchiridion where word for word hee thus saith For other cause is hee not truly called omnipotent but for as much as hee can do all whatsoeuer hee will and that the effect of the will of the Almightie is not hindered by the will and effect of any creature In that they consequently impute to the Ministers that they haue said the omnipotencie of God ought not to bee generally extended to all things which men may conceiue and imagine in their mindes The Ministers say vnder the Doctors correction that they said not so but that the almightinesse of God ought not to be extended without any discretion or distinction to all things generally which men in their foolish phantasies might forge or imagine Wherein to each one it may eftsoones appeare how they curtall and falsifie the Ministers words and sentences to haue meanes and colour for their slaunder Afterwards where they affirme that it is blasphemy to say that God can doo nothing against order the Ministers on the contrary part maintaine that to thinke and say that hee can doo ought which is not well ordered is to blaspheme the wisedome and eternall prouidence of God The Doctors pretend in the article following that one body to be in diuers places at one selfe-same instant is not a thing derogatorie to the truth of God The Ministers doo maintaine the contrarie that it should be derogate both to his truth for as much as there should be in him as is said yea and nay and to his wisedome for as much as in his words there should be disorder and confusion and by consequence to his almightinesse because
consecrate vse not the blessing and pronuntiation of certaine words ouer the bread and wine withstanding that which Iesus Christ first did and then ordained to his Apostles and their successors so to doo they cannot take any consecration of the bread and wine and that in them any chaunge happeneth Whereof it followeth that they differ not from common bread and wine and that such a feast and banquet is but common And that it is blasphemy to attribute vnto it the name of Christs Supper Behold why partly the Doctors haue said that the Supper of the Ministers is a prophane and polluted banquet The Doctors admonish the Ministers to answere to purpose and plainely to the demaunds by them proposed which they haue not done which is the cause that the Doctors least they should trauell in vaine haue not yet willed to impugne their answere summoning them eftsoones to answere what is proposed to them without drawing backe from the Conference which they say they affect so greatly The first demaunde was generall for all the Sacraments to wit whether the Ministers did beleeue that two things were essentiall and necessary to the confection of the Sacrament namely the matter or element and the word The Ministers answere that the Sacrament in it perfection considered consisteth in three things c. They speake indeterminately so that one cannot iudge whether they vnderstand theyr saying of the Sacrament which they call the Supper onely or generally of all as they were demaunded Although because they alledge Ireneus one may coniecture that they meant but of the Sament of the Supper Moreouer it behoueth to note that which they adde in it perfection considered to haue alwaies a starting hole when speech shall be made of the essence of the Sacrament The Doctors require that the Ministers answere to the question proposed generally of all the Sacraments For there is lyke reason as touching the essence of the Sacraments in generall And that they openly declare what things be essentiall and necessary to a Sacrament to be made a Sacrament without speaking for the present of the perfection of a Sacrament containing the essence and spirituall fruites which be not of the essence of the Sacracrament To the second demaund the Ministers answere no more pertinently then to the first And namely where the Doctors haue demaunded whether it behooued to vse certaine words for the confection of a Sacrament and what word was necessary for the Sacrament of the Supper The Ministers haue sayd that the lowe and secret speaking of certaine words addressed to the elements was not the word necessary to the confection of a Sacrament But they demaunded not whether it behooued to pronounce that word with a lowe or high voyce but the Interrogatory was whether there be any words necessary to make the Sacrament that one ought to pronounce ouer the matter or in administring the matter and that they might be such words for the Supper And it is not sufficient to say that the word by which the ordinance of Iesus Christ is declared is the word of the Sacrament but it behoueth to answere in what words consisteth that word and when it must be pronounced As touching the sixt and principall demaund the Ministers answere not clearly and to purpose but make a captious answere by which one may conceiue what is their opinion of the presence participatioÌ„ of the body of Iesus Christ in the Supper And so temper they their saying that there is no Zuinglian nor Almanists which confesseth not thereof as much or more then they To wit that they are conioyned to our Lord Iesus Christ that they possesse him in the power of their faith and by the operation of his holy spirite to be made flesh of his flesh and bones of his bones c. But this is farre off from the demaund to wit whether the faithfull in the Supper receiue into theyr soules besides all the graces spirituall among which is the communication with our Lord Iesus Christ his true bodie and blood really truly and substantially And whether the Ministers in the Supper make not distinction of the substance contained and perceiued in the Sacrament with the fruites thereof proceeding And for more breuitie the Doctors demaund whether the Ministers do receiue and approoue that which Caluin hath written of the Supper and of that they receiue thereof in his Catechisme Institution and other bookes As touching the seauenth demaund the Ministers haue not vnderstood what hath beene proposed to them touching the Concomitance For they haue taken it as if one demaunded whether it were lawfull to receiue the Sacrament vnder one onely kinde or no. Whiche was not as then put in question But suche a difficultie was proposed to them namely whether in theyr Supper when one hath receiued the bread before hee receiue the wine he do participate of the true body of Iesus Christ without hee be partaker of his bloud vntill hee haue taken the wine or hauing eaten the bread whether he hath receiued the body and bloud before he take the Cup To which demaunds to auoyd vaine blotting of paper the Doctors admonish the Ministers to answere without wandering and to render open confession of their faith And that the Doctors may knowe what doctrine they ought to impugne or approue As touching the articles of the Masse the Doctors reserue them to their proper place which is of the sacrifice of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ After it shal be knowne and proued that they be present in the Supper and holy Sacrament The fourth of August the yeare aboue said The Ministers answere to the writing of the Doctors sent vnto them by my Lord the Duke de Niuernois the morning being 7. of August 1566. THe Ministers leauing aside whatsoeuer is superfluous and from the purpose in the writing of the Doctors as be theyr repetitions and reheaâ—salls dissembling also their iniuries and accustomed scoffings by which they much more proue the hate they beare to the truth and the Ministers then the questions by them propounded will onely stay on the points which seeme to require some answere The Ministers first say that they taxed not the Doctors to haue restrained the Church in a certaine place but to a certaine company and to the traditions giuen followed and by the same approued And they magnifie God that the Doctors doo now acknowledge the Catholique Church to stretch through the world and that it is not inclosed in the boundes and limits of the authoritie and traditions of the Romane Church which the Ministers confesse to haue beene then much esteemed of the auncient Fathers when errours abuses and vices did not as yet there abounde as since they doo But now that all things almost are there corrupted as well in manners as in doctrine and that nothing is there more odious then the word the light the trueth and the power of God The Ministers do say that as the state of the same Church hath
conioyned they be sometimes by some occasion seperated and remoued the one from the other as touching their bodies yet for all that do they not leaue to be one flesh and one body by meanes of the societie and matrimoniall familiaritie which is betweene them In like case albeit that Iesus Christ with whom wee are conioyned and vnited by the faith and trust which wee haue in him and his promises bee as touching his bodie resident in heauen wee yet abiding vppon the earth and that by meanes thereof there is great distance and space betweene him and vs as touching his bodie that neuerthelesse hindereth vs not to bee flesh of his flesh and bones of his bones that hee is not our head and wee his members that hee is not our husband and wee his spowse that wee bee not of one selfe same body that wee bee not engrafted into him that wee be not cloathed with him that wee abide not in him as the boughes and buddes in the Vine And there is neither distance of times nor places whatsoeuer it be there is no difference of times which can hinder such a coniunction and that the faithfull eate truly his flesh and his bloud For as the auncient Fathers albeit they were two or three thousand yeares before Iesus Christ dyed yet left they not to communicate in his flesh crucified and to eate the same spirituall meate which we eate and to drinke the same spirituall drinke which wee drinke The faithfull also which are come twelue or fifteene hundred yeares after leaue not what place soeuer they be in to participate as did the Fathers in the same meate and in the same drinke which they haue done And no other difference there is betweene the eating of the Fathers which were before the comming of Iesus Christ and of them that haue followed him but the reason of more or lesse that is to say that there is in the one more ample and expresse declaration of the good will of God towards vs then in the other Whence must be concluded that from the beginning of the world vnto the end there neuer was nor shall be other coniunction betweene our Lord Iesus Christ and his Church then spirituall that is to fay wrought by the spirit of God For euen as there is but one faith in the Fathers and in vs which respecteth alwayes on the one part and the other our Lord Iesus Christ so are we not also otherwise conioyned with him then they haue bene As then it is so that the Fathers haue had no other societie nor communion then spirituall It followeth thereof that we also are not nor can be otherwise then spiritually cōioyned with him Neuerthelesse it is not said that wee and the Fathers are not flesh of his flesh and bones of his bones and that all together doo not partake as well in his humanitie as in his diuinitie But that which wee say is that all this participation which wee haue in him is by the operation vertue of the holy Ghost which thing Christ Iesus in S. Iohn speaking of the meane of this coniunction teacheth clearly when he saith The things which I speake vnto you are spirit and life And S. Paul also when hee saith Our fathers did eate the same spirituall meate and dranke the same spirituall drinke Now when wee speake of this spirituall eating common to vs and to the Fathers it must not therfore be thought that we reiect the holy Supper of the Lord or any way thinke that the same vse of bread and wine is superfluous no more then the vse of the water in Baptisme For our Lord knowing the blockishnesse of our vnderstandings and the infirmitie and weakenesse of our hearts and through the pittie he hath of vs willing to helpe and remedie the same hath not contented to haue left vs the ministerie of his word to assure vs of the participation which we haue in his flesh in his bloud and in all the good things thereon depending but hath also willed to adde therevnto the signes of bread and wine which he hath as seales to his word to seale in our hearts by the vse of the same the faith we haue of the foresaid coniunction by his word So that it sufficed him not to haue contracted a couenant with Abraham by the word and promise which he made vnto him but added moreouer therevnto the signe of Circumcision as a seale for more ample confirmation and assurance of the said couenant To the end then that each one may vnderstand what is the Supper of the Lord and what the Ministers do thereof beleeue and teach it is meete to consider and acknowledge in the same three things First the ordinance of the Lord contained in his word and declared by his Ministerie according to his commaundement by which this holy cerimony hath bene ordained and established in the Church for the edification and entertaining of the members thereof which thing must bee diligently obserued to haue it in that honour and reuerence as appertaineth and not to place it in the ranke of other cerimonies which haue no foundation nor reason to authorise them but the onely will and tradition of men Neuerthelesse heed must be taken that by the institution and ordinance whereof we make mention we vnderstand not a certaine pronuntiation of words or any vertue which is hidden in the same as do the Priests of the Romane Church who by ignorance and superstitious opinion which they haue thinke to haue consecrated and transubstantiated the bread and wine in the Masse by the vertue of fiue words Hoc est enim Corpus meum For this is my body breathed and pronounced ouer the Elements Wherein they are greatly deceiued and abused for as much as the word which is the formall cause of the Sacrament is not a word simply said and vttered but a declaration of the institution and ordinance of God made by the Minister according to his commaundement and a preaching of the death of Iesus Christ and of the fruite thereof by which the hearts of the hearers are lifted vp vnto the contemplation and meditation of his benefite and their faith stirred vp and inflamed in his loue and where the same shall not thus be done it must not be thought that the Elements be Sacraments As S. Augustine in the 80. Tract vpon Saint Iohn in these termes teacheth Whence commeth this vertue to the water that in touching the body it washeth the heart sauing that it is done by the word not because it is pronounced but because it is beleeued This word is the word of the faith which wee preach This saith the Apostle to wit If we confesse with our mouth that Iesus is the Lord and beleeue in our heart that God raised him from the dead wee shall be saued And continuing his speech hee addeth in the end these proper words to wit This word of faith which wee preach is that doubtlesse by which baptisme is consecrated
Acts of the Dispute and Conference holden at Paris in the Moneths of Iuly and August 1566. Betweene two Doctors of Sorbon and two Ministers of the Reformed Church A most excellent Tract wherein the learned may take pleasure and the ignorant reape knowledge Translated out of French by Iohn Golburne and diuided according to the daies Magna est veritas praeualet Ecclesiasticus 33. 16. Behold how I haue not laboured only for my selfe but for all them also that seeke knowledge LONDON Printed by Thomas Creede 1602. TO THE RIGHT Honorable Sir Thomas Egerton Knight Lord Keeper of the great Seale of England Chamberlaine of the Countie Palatine of Chester and of her Maiesties most Honorable priuie Counsaile I. G. wisheth all health honour and euerlasting happinesse RIght Honourable my good Lorde If affectionate dutie shall be held presumption or any taxe me of rashnesse for still troubling your Lordship with my rude labors I plead mine excuse with the Poet Affranius who blamed for guilt of like crime to Traian yet dared to present him with homely Poems excusing himselfe still with the curtesie of the Emperour which as Princely accepted as the other poorely offered And so shrowded with the shelter of your honorable curtesie I shall be shielded from the stormes of idle imputations stop as did Affranius the mouthes of my Taxors and aduenture once more to present vnto your Lordship my prison-night-watches as a simple token of my thankfulnesse and pledge of further dutie then deeming my selfe happie when I may acknowledge your honourable goodnesse with any performance of dutie or acceptable seruice to your Lordship to whom both my self and poore endeuours are wholy deuoted The worthy and necessary vse of this Treatise I leaue to the graue iudgment of learned Censors and in all dutie and zeale do offer it to your Lordships Patronage assure me of your like good as former acceptance For a good vine yeeldes grapes still answerable to it nature and an honourable mind the fruits of an honorable disposition Long liue and prosper ho. Lord Pater sis Patriae Ecclesiae Reipublicae charus So in all humilitie I take leaue Fleete this 25. of March 1602. Your Lordships most bounden in all dutifull affection Iohn Golburne The Translator to the Christian Reader AMongst all the meanes prescribed by wisedome to attaine the perfection of true knowledge there is none good Reader in my poore conceit more necessarie for the ignorant next to the fountaine of life the word of God then the reading of Controuersies wherein the truth is debated the reasons on both sides deduced and laid open to the view and Readers iudgement For as by striking together of the steele flint the fire is out forced euen so by disputation and conference the truth is boulted out and decyded But because it is hard for a blinde man to iudge of colours and we being all blinde by nature and ignorant of God and goodnesse are of our selues vncapable of right iudgement in matters of faith for flesh and bloud cannot attaine vnto it neither can the naturall man discerne the things of God we must therefore vse the appointed meanes of our saluation namely hearing reading and meditating of Gods sacred word which is onely able to make vs wise vnto saluation and to enlighten the eyes of the simple So that by this touchstone and faithfull inuocation of God in the name and sole mediation of Christ Iesus for the direction of his holy spirit wee shal be enabled to know all things and to trye the true and pure Gold from the false and counterfeit and then comparing the sayings and assertions of both sides with the sincere vndeceiueable milke of Gods word we shal be likewise able to discerne the spirit of God from the spirit of Error and discerning shall perceiue the incomparable beautie of the one and the vgly deformitie of the other Which thing waighing with my selfe and finding in this Treatise both the deepnesse of Sathan and the inuincible force of truth which is the power of God vnto saluation of all true beleeuers I resolued at the speciall instance of a religious friend who had begun the Translation to attempt effect and finish the same which by diuine assistance I haue faithfully performed and here present it to thy view Read it with consideration consider thereof with iudgement and iudge with discretion so shalt thou finde not onely pleasure but much profit in matters discussed of greatest moment For which and all things else giue God the glory make vse for thine instruction and accept my poore endeuour whose desire was to do thee good Farewell Thine in the Lord I. G. The Preface containing the occasions of the Dispute following FOr that I doubt not but many persons filled with the commō brute of the conference should bee made at the house of my Lord the Duke de Montpensier betweene the Doctors of the one part and the Ministers of the other appointed for that purpose desire to know the truth and that others speake thereof diuersly according to the reports thereof made vnto them or their conceiued imaginations concerning the same Me seemeth that to satisfie the one and take from the other all occasion of lying or giuing credit to lies it should bee good to put briefly in writing all the matter as it passed and likewise to declare what was the motiue first occasion of the same My Lord the Duke of Montpensier who as each one knoweth is very zealous of his Religion and dearely loueth his children seeing that his daughter the Duchesse of Buillon was departed from the Komish Religion thenceforth to follow that of Iesus Christ and that without chilling shee still perseuered and more and more increased in the knowledge and feare of God in zeale godlinesse and all other good and commendable vertues his speech he had in the beginning with her and other meanes he had since assaied to reduce and call her backe from the way wherein shee was nought preuailing willed for a last remedie to attempt if he could to winne her by the meanes and remonstrance of a Doctor named Vigor whom he much esteemed And to the end that the said Lady should remaine more satisfied hauing called my Lord of Buillon her husband hee declared vnto him his minde and said hee was contented that the said remonstrance should bee made to his daughter in the presence of some Ministers as namely of Spina such others as she should please to choose to the ende that had they any thing to say against the doctrine of the saide Vigor they should alleadge it And if after they had conferred together they were not confuted by him and wholly vanquished that his daughter should then abide in her opinion without that hee or some others of his side would euer assay ought to diuert her My Lord de Buillon promised to accomplish his commaund therein and to shewe his obedience to him Shortly after hee imparted the
make the Angel Peter passage Whereas the Doctors reply vpon the answer of the Ministers to the argument of the Camell formerly proposed by them in their first answer the Ministers say that there is nothing in their said answer against the word of God But that they deceiue themselues referring to the Camell whereof hee had formerly made mention that which ought to bee vnderstood but of the sauing and conuersion of the rich man only For our Lord Iesus Christ saying that that which is impossible to men is possible with God nought else pretendeth but to answere the question which the Disciples had propounded To wit who could be saued Answering wherevnto hee said that it was indeed impossible to men who of themselues are inclined to trust in their riches But to God it was possible which could pull backe or withdraw their hearts from that vaine confidence As touching the argument which they will build vpon the presence of Iesus Christ in the Supper whereof they wil inferre that it is in diuers places the Ministers confesse the antecedent denie the consequence For there is no doubt but by faith our Lord Iesus Christ is spiritually present to all the faithfull in the Supper Whence neuerthelesse must not be inferred that he is there locally definitiuely noâ— corporally And wheras they say that it is not imaginable the Ministers do avow the same in regard of these which are not taught and enlightned by the spirit of God and haue no other imagination then that which their natural facultie doth furnish them withall But they that beeing illuminate by the grace of God haue a true and liuely faith in their hearts it is no more impossible to represent vnto them Iesus Christ crucified in the Supper then it was to the Galathians to represent and propose him vnto them as present and visible at the preaching of S. Paul and to those likewise of whom Saint Ciprian maketh mention in his Sermon of the Supper That in celebrating the same they embrace the Crosse of Iesus Christ sucke his bloud and fasten their tongues within his wounds All which things are done by a liuely contemplation and apprehension of faith which is no other thing then the ground of things hoped for and an euidence of those things which are not seene as S. Paul doth define it Touching the truth of the thing conioyned with the signes and Sacraments the Ministers confesse that the outward signes are neuer without their effect toward the faithfull who cannot be partakers of the bread and wine distributed in the Supper but that they participate therwithall of the flesh of Iesus Christ crucified for their sinnes and of his bloud shead to ratifie the new couenant which God made with his people But if the Doctors will inferre thereof a corporall presence in the Supper the Ministers will denie it And their reason is because such a presence was not required among the auncient Fathers who left not for all that to eate one selfe-same spirituall foode with all the faithfull at this day as it shal be by the grace of God more amply declared when the Lord of Neuers shall please to command conference of this matter To that which the Doctors slaundering the Ministers do say that they attribute more to themselues and to humane power then they do attribute to the power of God when they say that by faith they make present the things which be absent seeing that God according to the doctrine of the Ministers cannot make one selfe-same body to bee in diuers places at one instant The Ministers doo answere that such antitheses be foolish and vnfit for the purpose and that there is much more great apparance that the Doctors do presume more of their power and that of the other Priests of the Romane Church then of the power of God for God created not by his word but the heauens the earth and the other creatures therein contained And they in their consecration doo attribute vnto themselues the power to create their Creator as is contained in their breuiarie where the Priest saith Qui creauit me creatur mediante me He that created me is created my meanes of mee And the Ministers much maruell that the Doctors call the vertue of faith a humane power seeing the great and admirable effects thereof proposed vnto vs in so many examples of the scripture chiefly in the eleuenth Chapter of the Epistle to the Hebrewes where Saint Paul saith That the Saints by faith haue subdued kingdomes c. All which things surmount not onely the vertue but also the capacitie of humane vnderstanding In that immediately following this article there is but repetitions in the reply of the Doctors and many vnprofitable and superfluous wordes and little or nothing of that should be necessary to the purpose And as they haue answered them particularly to euery point which they repeate they send them now backe to the former answeres and pray them henceforth not to serue them twise with one messe Concerning the Sacrament of the Aultar as they call it The Ministers neither receiue nor any way approue that their Masse which they pretend to bee a Sacrament is a Sacrament and much lesse a sacrifice by which remission of finnes may bee any way obtained Yea they say that both their Priest and pretended sacrifice with all the things thereof depending are blasphemies and impieties by which GOD is dishonoured all the benefite of Iesus Christ buried and nought esteemed and the Church of Iesus Christ seduced and abused as by the pursuite of the Conference shall plainely appeare And also that the Ministers do no way corrupt either the sence or the words which Iesus Christ vsed in the institution of his holy Supper Thursday the 18. of Iuly in the yeare aboue said The reply or obiection of the Doctors against the answere of the Ministers touching the Article of the Omnipotencie of God on Satterday the 20. of Iuly THe Doctors say that this cosequence God cannot by his omnipotencie make one body to be in two places at one instant he is not therefore omnipotent is so good and strong that the Ministers without wrapping and more and more drowning themselues in execrable blasphemies to the great griefe and horror of the Doctors can no way denie the same And besides the two blasphemies maintained by the Ministers in their former answers that is to say that it was impossible for God to make one body to bee in two places and that it was impossible for him to will the same in the first article of theyr last answere they adde foure or fiue other blasphemies out of which doo flow yet many others besides the absurdities falshoods and impostures they vse to the said Doctors And first they set forth that God cannot do a thing which derogateth the order which he hath established in the world Secondly that it should bee to establish mutabilitie and change in the Councell of God did they confesse that hee
Supper and as the seale by which the said couenant is sealed and the faith thereof confirmed By such and like manner this sentence This is my body which is as much to say as this is the new Testament in my body which is giuen for you must bevnderstood and expounded For as by the effusion of his bloud the new Testament was confirmed so was it also by the death of his body And a better Interpreter of the words of Iesus Christ then Iesus Christ himselfe must not bee sought for For certaine it is that what he hath said of the Cup is as it were a glasse cleare and familiar exposition of that he had more briefly and obscurely said of the bread This also is proued by that which S. Paul saith The bread which we breake is it not the Communion of the body of Christ which is a manner of figuratiue speech For as much as to speake and vnderstand properly the bread which is a corporeall and materiall thing is not the Communion which we haue in the body of Iesus Christ which is a spirituall and inuisible thing And neuerthelesse it is so called because it is the signe thereof to represent it vnto vs and to assure vs of the same As commonly we cal the signed and sealed Letter which containeth the declaration of the last will of a man his Testament although it be not his Testament but is properly the declaration which he hath verbally made of his said will But it is so called because it is the instrument and testimonie thereof Now as the scripture and auncient Fathers as well to recommend and aduance the dignitie of the signes and to hinder therby the contempt of them as for the agreement and likenesse which is betweene the signes the thing signified haue sometimes attributed the name of the same things signified to the signes which represent them and speaking of signes haue vsed figuratiue speeches At some other times also haue they spoken of them properly to take away all occasion of abuse thereof and to hinder that in taking the signes without any distinction for the things by them signified men should attribute to them the effects which appertaine not but to the things onely which they signifie Of these two diuers reasons maners of speaking examples there are as well in the scriptures as in the auncient Fathers Of the first we haue an example in Circumcision when it is called by figure a Couenant Gen. 17. 13. And of the secōd is there likewise an example in the 11. verse of the same Chapter where Circumcision is properly called a signe of the Couenant Another example there is of the first maner of speaking which is figuratiue in Exodus 12. 11. where the Lambe is called the Passeo-uer of the Lord. And of th◠second maner of speaking which is proper the example i◠in the same Chapter 3. verse where the blood of the lambe is named a signe In like manner and sort when in the scripture mention is made of the Supper sometimes is it there spoken of bread by figure As when it is called the bodie of Iesus Christ or the Communion of the bodie as before hath bene sayd and sometimes is it also taken properly as when it sayd Whosoeuer shall eate of this bread Also Let euery man then prooue himselfe and so eate of this bread The like diuersitie in two manners of speaking is oftentimes founde among the auncient Fathers in the matter of the Supper For sometimes they speake of bread by figure calling it the bodie of Iesus Christ As Saint Ciprian when hee saith that the bodie of the Lorde is taken with filthie hands and his blood drunke with a prophane and polluted mouth And when hee saith elsewhere that we sucke his blood and fasten our tongues in the woundes of our Redeemer And S. Ierome when he saith that Euxuperius Bishop of Tholoze bare the bodie of our Lord in a little Oziar Pannyer and his blood in a Glasse Saint Chrisostome also when he writeth that Iesus Christ doth not only suffer himselfe to be seene but also to be touched and eaten and that the toothe be fastened in his fleshe and touched with the tongue And Saint Augustine With what care take we heede when the body of Iesus Christ is administred vnto vs that nothing thereof fall from our hands to the earth All which with theyr semblable Sentences are figuratiue and there is no doubt but to well and fitly interpret them they that read them ought to bee taught that in the same the name of the thing signified is applyed to the signes which doo signifie the same which thing may easily bee gathered out of other sentences and passages of the said Auncients where speaking properly of the bread and wine distributed in the Supper they call them signes and figures As Tertullian Iesus Christ saith hee tooke bread gaue it to his Disciples and made his body when hee saith This is my body that is to say a figure of my body And Ciprian by the wine is shewed the bloud of Christ Also in the Sermon which hee made of the Supper of the Lord As often as we do this wee whet not the teeth to byte but wee breake and distribute the holy bread in true faith By the which wee distinguish the diuine and humane matter Also in the Sermon hee made de Chrismate The Lord hath giuen with his owne hands bread and wine vpon the table on which hee made his last meale with his Disciples but vpon the Crosse hee gaue vnto the souldiers his body to be wounded to the ende hee might so much the more deepely imprint the truth in his Disciples and that they should expound to the people how the bread and wine were his body and bloud and how the Sacrament agreeeth with the thing for the which it was instituted And also how a Sacrament is made of two things and therefore is named with two names and one selfe-same name is giuen to that which signifieth and to that which is signified And Saint Basile Wee propose the figures and patternes of the sacred body and bloud of Iesus Christ And Saint Augustine The Lord feared not to say This is my body when hee gaue the signe of his body Also the Lord receiued Iudas to his Supper wherein hee commended and gaue to his Disciples the figure of his bodie And Saint Ierome After hee had eaten the Pascall Lambe with his Disciples he tooke bread which strengtheneth the heart of man and passed to the true Sacrament of the Passeouer To the ende that as Melchisedecke had done before in his figure he should also represent there his true body S. Ambrose This Sacrament is a figure of the true body and bloud of our Lord Iesus Christ Chrisostome He hath prepared this table to the ende he might shewe vs daily the bread and wine in mysterie and similitude of the bodie and bloud of
and proued to the expense of their bloud and losse of their liues So that the King and his Councell by his Edict hath declared them to haue bene very faithfull and well affected subiects to his Maiestie And wee must not maruell if the Doctors thus slaunder the reformed Churches for as much as the Christians in all times haue bin accused of like crimes by the enemies of the truth As it appeareth by the Apologie of Tertullian the booke of S. Augustine de Ciâ—itate Dei by the Tract of Saint Ciprian against Demetrius and by the booke of Arnobius which he wrote against the Gentiles But the Ministers much maruell how the Doctors are so ill aduised to alledge the suppers celebrated in the reformed Churches to verifie their accusations seeing that the same at this day being throughout publikely done in the eyes and presence of them that will behold them there is nothing therein hidden and whereof each one if he will may not easily be informed But this is the zeale and great charitie of my Lords our maisters whereof they haue heretofore protested that by inuocatioÌ„ of Gods name which so transporteth them to slaunder without shame or shewe those whose iustice in that matter shall answere for them before God and men Touching that which the Doctors â—â—erwards say that in the Supper of the Ministers no consecration is made of the matter of bread wine which be there proposed The Ministers do confesse that the bread and wine which be truly in their Supper are not consecrated in sort as the Doctors pretend to consecrate them in their Masse For so they approue not such a consecration But yet do they maintaine that there is in their Supper consecration of the matters aforesaid in sort as they in their articles and resolution haue heretofore very largely declared The Doctors for proofe and confirmation of that aforesaid do adde that it belongeth not to all persons indifferently to consecrate the matter of the Sacraments but to them onely which are ordained by the laying on of hands of the Romane Bishops wherevnto the Ministers for answer say that the first point they confesse and also as else-where they haue said that calling is necessarie to such a purpose But they denie vnto the Doctors notwithstanding that this calling is the imposition which they pretend and the Ministers assure themselues that their calling is more lawful and better founded then is that of the Doctors Whereas the Doctors propose in the article following that the Ministers haue not answered them clearly enough to their liking touching the parts of the Sacrament and of the word required for the consecration of the matter which therein is The Ministers answere that there is no doubtfulnesse obscuritie nor any inuolution in their writings sauing that which the Doctors will finde therein the iudgement whereof the Ministers referre to the vpright readers And yet they hold it not more straunge that the Doctors finde their writings obscure then did Saint Paul that his Gospell was hidden and couert to them which perished And in whome the God of this world had blinded the mindes To that of the presence of the body of Iesus Christ in the Supper for which the Doctors require of the Ministers a more large declaration then that they haue giuen in theyr former answere The Ministers say that they haue theâ—evnto clearly answered albeit the Doctorâ— bee not satisfied with their 〈◊〉 whereat they nothing wonder knowing well it is not theyr custome to be contented if one yeeld not to them what they demaund and desire Which the Ministers haue not determined to do much lesse to exceed in their answer the limits and bounds of the scripture be it in this article of the Supper or in others but rather to follow as neare as possibly they can the phrase and maner of speaking of the same By means whereof for full answere the Ministers acknowledge no other eating of the flesh and bloud of Iesus Christ bee it in the Supper or out of the Supper sauing that which Iesus Christ himselfe declareth in the sixt Chapter of Saint Iohn Whosoeuer eateth my flesh and drinketh my bloud hath eternall life Also He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my bloud dweâ—leth in me and I in him Also As the liuing Father hath sent me so liue I by the Father And he that eateth me euen he shall liue by me To the last Article which is of Concomitance the Ministers answere that the demaund of the Doctors was not so hard but that they had well conceiued it But they dissembled the same because they would not loose time to speake and write of such dreames And they well thought that the Doctors were subtill inough to vnderstand that in their denying Transubstantiation it was not to proâ—e their Concomitance Now for their satisfaction they adde that they will know no more then that which Iesus Christ himselfe hath taught in his word That is to say that in the Supper to participate in his flesh crucified and bloud shead for the remission of sinnes it behoueth to take and eate the bread drinke the wine which be administred without any way diuiding or seperating the same Which thing is also forbidden by the Canons De Consecr Dist 2. C. CuÌ„ omne Crimen Finished on Wednesday the 14. of August in the yeare aforesaid This writing being sent the Ministers went shortly after towards my Lord of Neuers to shew vnto him that they for theyr part had largely treated of this matter but they well perceiued that the Doctors by theyr friuolous and impertinent questions hitherto sought not but to passe away the time without ought doing in the decyding of the Supper and of the Masse And albeit they fayned that such demaunds did serue for a preparatiue to this dispute yet was it to no other end but not to enter thereinto at all and to hold things in suspence vntill length of time should begin to be troublesome and by that meane all should break off That his lyking might be to make the Doctors vnderstand that without turning this or that way they should come to end the difference refuting that which the Ministers had maintained of the Supper and supporting that which they had condemned in theyr Masse Which thing he promised them to do Of which promise began the Ministers to hope thence forward for some profitable matter and seruing to the edification of the Readers and rooting out of the greatest abuse and error that is in the Romane Church Neuerthelesse shortly after was it bruted through the Citie that Doctor Vigor was fallen into a very daungerous disease and wherof was no hope he should hastâ—ly recouer which made the Ministers feare that they were frustrate of theyr hope And yet more did they feare when they vnderstood that the Doctor de Sainctes was the same time departed from Paris and gone towards Monsieur the Cardinal of Lorraine For they could not otherwise presume but that they