only he could do it but also he would do it and so consequently are determined to refute all the blasphemies heresies of the supposed reformed side which are contained in the supper to the ende also we be not thought to eschue the combate of the supper the Masse as the ministers haue reproched to vs protesting notwithstanding to kéepe in meaning that after we haue concluded resolued vpon this matter to returne to the examination of the moÌ„strous errors of the ministers which containe great numbers against the other Articles of the Créede which the ministers feare by all likelihoode in that they are not willing we pursue the order begon as foreseeing that in the next conference we wold open vnto them an other blasphemie maintained by the reformed church against the bountie of God according to Caluines doctrine which is that God works in the reprobate the euill sinne which they coÌ„mit which is an execrable atheisme no lesse than the denial of gods omnipoteÌ„cie and in like sort as such as shal read these coÌ„ferences if they continue to the end discussing of the ministers errors their religion against al the articles of the Créede shall maruel to vnderstand the absurdities blasphemies discending from them so yet there is an other point the drawes the ministers to demaund the disputation of the supper which is that they haue al their matter redily prepared by many of their sect which haue written therof as especially they will not want the great Booke of Peter Martir by which they are furnished with sundrie infamous obiections certaine texts of the Ancients either cut of depraued or euil applied to impugne in shew the truth of the body in the sacrament but to the defense of all their other errors they are very slenderly prouided wherin their coÌ„science is a sufficient witnesse that by the scripture iudgmeÌ„t of general councels coÌ„mon consent of the authorities of the ancients they are coÌ„uinced condeÌ„ned of their errors against the said Créede But to enter into the supper of the ministers we say it is a prophane eating drinking not differing from the coÌ„mon eating drinking sauing that it is so much the worse as they abuse the holy institution of the supper of Iesus and pollute and defile such their banket withal impietie blasphemie we maintaine also that they do great wrong to the sacrament of Iesus Christe to attribute falsly to suche their banker so prophane and defiled the name of sacrament And to the ende to proue it more cleare we aske them if they receiue a common doctrine allowed not only in the catholike church but also of all the sects which are separated froÌ„ it the same is that in the confection of sacramentes there be two things essentiall and necessary the matter or the element and the woorde Secondly what word is necessary with the element to coÌ„stitute a sacrament namely that which they cal the sacrament of the supper and whether they must vse certain woords or not Thirdly if the woorde haue any vertue or efficacie in this sacrament and what And if it worke any thing in the matter of bread and wine Fourthly whether by the same woord the consecration be made of the matter of the sacrament or not In the fifth place if by the woord there be not made consecration of the matter that is howe the same consecration is made and by what vertue the sacrament is made For the sixth if bisides the bread wine and the spirituall graces benefites of Iesus Christ is receiued in the supper really the true body bloud of Iesus Christe in his propre substance not only in spirituall effect vpon this Article we require of the ministers an open confession of faithe We ask further if in receiuing the bread afore they take the wine they receiue by the eating of the bred the body bluâ— of Iesus Christ or only the body to beâ—â—â—rt if they admit that which the diuines cal a concomitance of the body bloud of Iesus Christ We aske also if the supper bisides the assurance it giues them of participation in the flesh of Iesus Christ in their redemption do woorke in them reâ—ission of sinne We aske lastly if by the supper there is receiued any thing which can not be receiued oute of the Supper or if withoute taking of breade to goe to the Supper or to assist it may be receiued as muche of the body and graces of Iesus Christ as if they did assist the supper We will debate afterwards the other Articles contained in the laste pamphelet of the ministers bicause the former demaundes are to be first examined as grounds of the other Articles proponed by the ministers For the rest after the supper of the ministers is confuted and the Real presence of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the sacrament confirmed we will procéede by order and withoute confusion to teache clearely by the pure and moste expresse woorde of God that the Masse was instituted said by Iesus Christe and that also he commaunded his Apostles to say it which they did according to the ordinaunce of their Maister That the Masse is a true sacrifice of the Euangelical law That suche as reiecte the Masse and admit no outwarde sacrifice in the Church nor priesthoode are without true law and without true Religion and therefore worse than Idolatrers That the Masse is of value to obtaine remission of sinnes fauoure and grace of God and that it is of value bothe for the quicke and the dead That it is no abuse in the Church if the Priest communicate alone in the Masse when the assistantes will not communicate with him That suche commit horrible blasphemie which call the woorshipping of the body of Iesus Christ in the Sacrament the worshipping of breade and wine and falsly doe they call such veneration of the body of Iesus Christ idolatrie To be short there is nothing in the masse as it is celebrated in the Church at this day which is not good and holy in it selfe and conformable to the woorde of God. We require the ministers to Aunswere to the demaunds héere before written pertinently clearly and by order Sunday .28 of Iulie the years aforesaide The Aunswere of the Ministers to the vvryting of the Doctors sent to them by the Duke of Nyuernois the .28 of Julie .1566 about .7 of the clocke in the Euening THe Doctors in the beginning of their writing reproche vs as that in our complainte against them we imitate the Donatistes wherin they iustifie oure former iudgement and opinion of them that the moste parte of their wrytings swarmed more with matters of repeticion iniuries scoffes and inuectiues than with argumentes and good reasons like as also the example of the Donatistes becomes them farre better than vs bicause the Donatistes soughte to restraine the name of the Churche who comprehendes vniuersally all the chosen and Faithfull that eyther
for all that one flesh and one body by meane of the societie and matrimoniall acquaintaunce betwene them In like sort be it that Iesus Christ with whom we are knyt and vnited by faith and trust we haue in him and in his promises be as in respect of his body resident in heauen and we remaine here on earth so that there is a great distance betwene him and vs touching his bodye yet that doth not hinder vs to be flesh of his flesh and bones of his bones and that he is not our head and we his mēbers he our husband and we his spouse that we are not of one self body tyed with him that we are not cloathed of him and that we dwell not in him as the braunches in the vine Neither is there distance of time or place what soeuer it be nor difference of seasons which may hinder that coniunction that the faithfull eate truly his flesh and blood For as the auncient Fathers notwithstandyng they were two or three thousande yeares afore Christ dyed yet forbare not to communicate in his flesh crucified and eate the same meate spirituallye which we eate and drinke the same drink spiritually which we drinke so the faythfull also whiche are comen twelue or fiftene hundreth yeares after forbeare not in what place soeuer they be to participate as the Fathers with the same meate and drinke which they did Neither is there anye other difference betwene the eating of the Fathers that were before the comming of Iesus Christ and suche as haue followed hym but the reason of the more or of the lesse whiche is that in the one there is more ample and expresse declaration of Gods good wyll towardes vs than in the other By which we ought to conclude that from the beginning of the world vntyl the ende there was neuer nor euer shall be other coniunction betwene our Lord Iesus Christ and his Churche than spirituall that is purchased by the spirite of god For euen as there is but one fayth in the Fathers and in vs which considereth alwayes on the one and other syde our Lorde Iesus Christe euen so are not wée conioyned with him in other sorte than they were So that as the Fathers had no other societie or communication then spirituall euen so it followeth also that we neither are nor can be otherwise vnited with him than spiritually And yet do we not say that we and the Fathers are not fleshe of hys flesh and bones of his bones that altogether we participate not as wel with his humanitie as with his diuinitie But all our saying and opinion stretcheth to this that this participation which we haue there is by the operation and vertue of the holy spirite Which Iesus Christ in S. Iohn speaking of this coniunction teacheth clearelye in these fewe wordes the thinges whereof I speake to you are the spirite and life as also S. Paule our Fathers sayth he haue eaten the same spirituall meate and dronke the same spirituall drinke Wherein when we speake of thys spirituall eating both in vs and in our Fathers it must not be thought therefore that we would reiect the holye Supper of the Lord or once thinke that in the same the vse of breade and wyne is superfluous no more then the vse of the water in the Baptisme For our Lorde knowing the hardnesse of our vnderstanding together wyth the infirmitie and weakenesse of oure hearts and by a pitie compassion he hath of vs seekyng to remedye the same was not onely content to leaue vnto vs the ministerie of hys word to assure vs of the participation which we haue in hys flesh and bloud and all the benefites lykewyse depending thereupon But he hath also added thereunto the signes of breade and wyne which he hath annexed to his word as seales to seale in our heartes by the vse of the same the fayth which wée haue of the sayd coniunction by his woord Like as it dyd not suffise him to haue contracted the alliance with Abraham by the word and promise he made him but he added further the signe of Circumcision as a seale to confirme and assure more amply the sayd alliance To the ende then that euery one vnderstande what is the supper of the Lord and also what we beleue and teach of it ther must be considered and acknowledged in the same three thinges First the ordinaunce of the Lord contayned in hys woorde and declared by his Minister according to his commaundement By the which word this holy ceremony was ordained and established in the Churche to edifie and entertayne the members of the same which must be diligentlye obserued as to haue it in such honour and reuerence as appertaineth and not to put it on the beadroll or sorte of other ceremonies who haue no other ground or reason of authoritie than the onely wil and traditions of men yet there must be héede taken that by the institution and ordinance whereof we speake ther is vnderstanded a certaine pronunciation of words or any vertue which is hid in them as do the prests of the Romish church who by ignorance and their superstitious opinion thinke to haue consecrated and transubstanciated the bread and wyne which is in their Masse by the vertue of fiue wordes Hoc est enim corpus meum breathed and pronounced vpon the elementes Wherein they are no lesse deceiued than abused bicause the woord which is the formall cause of the sacrament is not a word sayd and spoken simply but a declaration of the institution and ordinance of God don by the Minister according to his cōmaundement and a predication of the death of Iesus Christ wyth the fruite of the same by the which the heartes of the hearers are raysed into contemplation and meditation of his benefites and theyr faith kyndled and enflamed in his loue And where this is not done as is sayd we must not thynke that the elementes are sacramentes as S. Augustine teacheth vppon S. Iohn 80. Treatise in these termes from whence comes this vertue to the water that in touching the bodie it washeth the heart but that it is done by the woord not bicause it is pronounced but by reason it is beléeued this woorde is the woorde of faith which we preache sayeth the Apostle which is if we confesse with our mouthe that Christe is the Lord and beleeue in our heart that God hath raised him from the deade we shal be saued wherin continuing his matter he addes in the end these woordes this woorde of faithe which we preache is the same without doubt by which baptisme is consecrated to the end it may clense and washe The ministers inferre héere before two things the one that the woorde of Consecration is not as is saide a simple pronunciation but a publike and manifest declaration of the institution and ordinance with all the misterie of the deathe of Iesus Christe The other that the signes and Elementes consecrated are not chaunged in
respecte of their nature and substance but onely touching the vse and signification and that only during the Action in which they serue For to consecrate the signes as the water in Baptisme and the breade and wine in the supper is no other thing than to assigne and make them serue to a holy and sacred vse by the publike declaration of the ordinance of God made to that ende and not to chaunge them touching their nature and substance the which vanishing and being made nothing there shoulde be no more signe nor by consequence any sacrament So that euen as the water in the Baptisme after the Consecration remaines water without that his nature or substance be in any thing chaunged or altered so the bread and wine in the supper touching their substance remaine after the consecration suche as they were afore for there should be no Analogie nor correspondencie betwéene the signe and the thing signified For what comparison conformitie is there betwene the accidents of the bread and the truthe of the body of Iesus Christe séeing that the accidents of the breade as the whitenesse and roundnesse destitute of their substance as the Sophisters doe falsly imagine coulde not nourishe or sustaine the bodie and by that meane should not be proper to signifie that the fleshe and bloude of Iesus Christe nourishe and sustaine oure soules So that we must hold this for resolute that the bread and wine remaine in their substance the same being clearely verified by Iesus Christe who speaking of that which he gaue to his Disciples to drinke in the Supper calles it specially the fruite of the Vine Which can not be referred to the accidentes but is necessarily to be vnderstanded of the wine in his proper substance As also by that which S. Paule saythe calling the Elementes of the Supper Breade and Wine thrée seuerall times yea after they were Consecrated Like as also he wrytes elsewher we that are many are one bread and one body bicause we participate all of one lofe wherein he teacheth vs there by his comparison of the lofe that euen as it is made of many graines so wrought and mingled togsther that they can not be distinguished or seperated one from an other euē so also ought the faithful in the Church to be so knit and vnited togither in one selfe body as they may séeme to be membres one of another This comparison wold be altogither foolishe out of purpose if the bread which we eate in the supper were not true bread Gelasius Bishop of Rome wryting against Eutichus saithe that the sacramente which we take is a thing Diuine and yet forbeares not to be a substance and nature of breade and wine Theodoret also in his first Dialogue vseth these propre termes the Lorde hath honored with the name of his bodie and of his bloud the visible signes which represente them without chaunging their nature but adding only grace to the nature The same Author in his second Dialogue speaking also of the breade and wine distributed in the supper saythe that after the sanctification these misticall signes forsake not their nature for they remaine in their proper substance kinde and figure by meane whereof they are seene and handled after the Consecration neither more or lesse then afore S. Iohn Chrysostome wryting to the Monke Cesarius saythe in the Supper we call breade that which is there present afore it be sanctified And after the sanctification by Gods grace and meane of the minister it hath no more the name of breade but of the body of our Lord yet the nature of bread remaines there By the places aforesaide as well of the holy scripture as Auncient Doctors and others which mighte be yet alleaged for this matter it appeares that the breade and wine in the supper remaine alwayes as hath bene said in their proper nature and substance after the Consecration as well as before wherein it néede not to be doubted that the Faith of the auncient Churche hath not alwayes bene so and that Transubstantitiaon was neither established nor holdē for an Article of Faithe in the Romishe Church vntil the time of Innocent the thirde To withstande and reiecte all that hathe bene sayde touching the nature and substance of the signes which remaine after the Consecration suche as be aduersaries to this Doctrine alleage ordinarily the woordes of Iesus Christe speaking of the breade in the institution of his supper take eate this is my bodie And staying vpon the proper and natural signification of the termes they defend obstinately that the substance of bread is vanished in the Consecration and that there remaines no other substance except that of the bodie of Iesus Christe The reason of this is that they obserue not the Figures and manner of spéeches which are ordinarily vsed in the holy Scripture when and as often as there is Question of the matter of the sacramentes For then the name of the things signified is ordinarily attributed to the signes which represent and signifie them as the name of the alliance is attributed to the Circumcision bicause it was assigned to signifie and ratifie it The Lambe by like reason is called the passage and Baptisme washing of regeneration and that not bicause they be things like to the signes and mysteries signified by them But for the conformitie that is betweene them The signes as S. Augustine him selfe dooth say take oftentymes the name of the things which they represent So that the error procéedes in that they take and vnderstand the manners of spéeches figured as if they were propre and naturall That this spéeche take and eate this my body is figuratiue it appeares by that which our Lord Iesus Christe addes after of the cuppe saying this cuppe is the newe Testament in my bloud which is shed for you Héere he calles the cuppe Testament and new aliance in his bloude wherin we must necessarily confesse that there is figure and that with oute it the saide place could not be wel vnderstand nor aptly interpreted For it is a thing manifest that an aliance which is a contrary couenant betwéene parties made and cōceiued vnder a certaine promisse and woorde is not the wine and yet it is so called by figure bicause the wine which is distributed in the supper is as the seale by the which the saide aliance is sealed and the faithe of the same confirmed By suche or like manner must we also vnderstand and expoūd this sentence this is my body the same being as much to say as this is the newe Testament in my bodie which is deliuered for you For as by the effusion of his blud the new Testament was ratified so was it also by the death of his body we néede not searche better interpretation of the words of Iesus Christe than Iesus Christe himselfe For it is certaine that that which he saide of the cuppe is as a glose and cleare and familiare exposition of that which he sayd of
the greatnesse of our God to maintein his woorkes incredible by nature which are comprehended in his woord in our Faith and also to confute all suche as woulde deny any of them as impossible to be done by any manner what so euer And bicause Caluin and Beza with their Ministers raise them selues against the power and greatnesse of our Lorde and openly deny him to be able to commit the body bloude of Iesus Christ vnder the formes of Breade and Wine and bicause also that in the Religion pretended reformed to resist the efficacy of the woorde This is my Body this is my Bloude they teach not a more great reason nor more familiare to al those that are out of the way than the impossibilitie of God to be able to make a body to be in twoo or many places that is to say in the Sacrament and in Heauen wée obiecte with good righte to the Ministers that in their Doctrine they derogate the firste Article of Faithe which is of the Almightinesse of god And also we knowe that the anciente manner of the Christians disputing againste the aduersaries of Faith was oftentimes to beginne to aske whether that whereon they doubted were possible to God or not or whether onely he woulde not doo it in which sorte and order Tertullian and others propone the pointes wherein they enter into contention againste the Heretikes In like sort afore we passe further into the matter of the holy SacrameÌ„t we would in preamble wise fele of the Ministers whether they iudged it to be in Goddes power to make a body occupy many places or whether only he would not c. wherein wée are enforced to aduertise al Christians of one manner of dealing common to al the Ministers of the pretended reformed Religion which is when they are asked if God can establish the body of Iesus Christ in the Sacrament or not they aunswere that there is no question of the power of God but of his Will onely And when wée produce matter which declares the will of God then of the contrary they deny that his wil is suche bicause it is impossible to him Alleaging here their contradictions according to the nature of the body And bicause they thinke this to be impossible in action they depraue and interprete the woorde of the Supper otherwayes than either it beares or is written Here is also to be noted that wherin an Almaine called Heshusius reprocheth Caluin that he his felowe Ministers are goodly noble amplifiers of the power of God but when it comes to the déede and pushe as the saying runnes they neither giue or graunte him any more than they thinke méete to introduce their errours and fansies resembling as the saide Almaine compares them a good Traitor who most dooth cherishe and magnifie a man when he is most ready to betray him as Iudas did our Lorde wherin wée are constrained to say of the Ministers touching Goddes Almightinesse as Tertullian saith of the Heretikes Credendo non credunt which is in beleuing the Omnipotencie they beleue it not for when they haue saide that there muste be no exception they hold againe an other way that it must not stretch to euery thing that mannes sprite can conceiue and so they will not apply it but to what they thinke good couering themselues with the nature wisedome eternal wil of God which are no lesse vnknowne and incomprehensible to them than his Omnipotencie in which respecte wee aduise euery one not to be abused with the speach of Caluin nor his ministers but to consider the woorkes which they deny to be in the power of god Wée haue produced to them these foure questions Whether God may make a body to be in twoo places and of the contrary twoo bodyes in one place Whether he can lodge one body in one space lesse than his greatnesse and whether he can make it inuisible which haue bene specially culled and chosen for that vpon them are founded the principal arguments of the pretended reformed Religion againste the true presence of the Bodye and Bloude of Iesus Christ in the Holy Sacrament Wée beleue simply as al other things that the foure questions are possible to God and haue proued it by the infinitie of his power both by the scriptures who giue vnto him al vertue ouer creatures without any exception and also by Examples and straunge myracles don vpon bodyes against their natures which are writteÌ„ as Tertullian holdeth in his Booke of the Resurrection to the ende wée beleue that our God is more mighty than al Lawe and nature of al bodyes whereunto he addes that such knowe God very euill who thinke that he hath not in his power things which thei cannot comprehende in their fansie From whence it comes as S. Cyril saith that such wicked sprites reiecte and condemne al things as impossible bicause they vnderstand them not Besides wée thinke wée haue sufficiently shewed no lesse by expresse scripture than by the Exposition of the same taken of the Ancient Christians that it was not only in Gods power to make twoo bodyes to be in one place and one body without place equall to his greatenesse but also that he had already truely done it in the byrth of the body of our Lorde Iesus Christe in the Resurrection of the same â—â—is entry throughe the doores shutte and in his Ascension aboue al the Heauens like as also wee haue deduced that there was equall and like repugnancy in those deedes as in the other of one body in twoo places whiche by the scripture is no more excepted from the power nor will of God than the others as to iudge it impossible to be done neither hath there bene any Christian afore our time which durst affirme the same to be impossible and out of the power of God notwithstanding the occasion was often offered if they had any waye estéemed it impossible as the Ministers of the supposed refourmed Religion pretende Of the contrary the most parte of the auncient Authours of the Primitiue Churche haue holden expressely that it was in Goddes power to bestowe a creature in many places according to S. Ieromes opinion againste the Heretike Vigilantius that the soules of the Sainctes maye assiste in many places with the immaculate Lambe our Sauiour Iesus Christe Yea there was question Whether the saide soules and sprites of the Holy ones did assiste at any time the Churches where their Graues and Monumentes were the same resembling with S. Augustine in his Booke whiche he wrote of the care to be had of the Dead Chapter 16. wher he saithe that by the power of theire nature the soules cannot be here belowe and in Heauen or in many places but that the same may be done by the power of God and he will not resolue whether they vnderstande our affayres by suche assistaunce in many places or by reuelation of the Aungels or other meane of the power and grace of God. Morouer it is
appeares first by this that it belongs not to al persons to cōsecrate the bread and the wine in the supper but only to such as are lawfully ordained by the imposition of the handes of the Pastors and Bishoppes according to the succession since the Apostles till our time And it is moste certaine that the most parte of the ministers of the supposed reformed church are not ordained by the authoritie of the handes of the Pastors who haue power by succession of one to an other since the Apostles So that we must conclude that suche ministers vsurping the office that pertaines not to them can not make any consecration and by consequence they giue but common bread and wine of which Article shall be spoken when we handle the sacrifice and priesthoode Secondly to make consecration of bread and wine it suffiseth not that the person be fit to consecrate the matter but it is also necessary that by a certaine meane the lawfull minister make the consecration which is by Benediction and pronuntiation of certaine woordes vpon the matters proposed as Iesus Christe did firste obserue wherein bicause the ministers albeit they were lawfully ordained and had authoritie and power to consecrate do not vse Benediction and pronuntiation of certaine woordes vppon the Breade and Wine impugning first that which Iesus Christe did and after left it to the Apostles and their successoures to doe so they can not pretende any consecration of the Breade and Wine nor that in them doe come any mutation whereof it foloweth that as they differre not from other Breade and Wine so that banket and feast is but common and that it is blasphemie to attribute to it the name of Christian Supper And this is a partie cause why we said the ministers supper was a banket prophane and polluted We haue required the ministers to Aunswere pertinently and fully to our Demaundes which bicause they haue not done to the ende to intercept all vaine trauaile we thinke it not good for the present to impugne their Aunsweres only we summon them eftsoones to Aunswere that which is proponed to them without shifting of the conference which they pretend to holde in so deare regarde The first Demaund was general for all the Sacraments to wéete if the ministers beléeued that two things were essentiall and necessary to the confection of the Sacramente which are the matter or element and the woorde the Ministers Answere that the Sacrament considered in his perfection consists in thrée things c. they speake in determinately so that it can not be iudged if their spéeche vnderstand the Sacrament only which they call of the Supper or generally of all as they were asked albeit in respecte they alleage Ireneus it may be easily gessed that they meane not but the Sacrament of the Supper we haue also to note the woordes of their Addition considered in his perfection as alwayes to haue a hole to créepe out when we speake of the essence of the Sacrament We demaunde that they Answere to the Question proponed in general of all the Sacramentes séeing there is like reason touching the essence of the Sacraments in generall and that also they declare openly what things are essentiall and necessary in the Sacrament to be made a Sacramente without speaking for the present of the perfection of one Sacrament containing the essence and spirituall frutes which are not of the essence of the Sacrament Touching the seconde Demaund the Ministers Answere no more pertinently than to the firste And specially where we made a Demaunde that certaine woordes muste be vsed for the confection of the Sacramente and what was necessary for the Sacramente of the Supper the ministers haue sayde that the base and secrete speeche of certaine woordes addressed to the Elementes was not a necessary speeche to the confection of the sacrament We did not Demaund whether that spéeche should be pronounced high or lowe But the Question was if there be any necessary spéeches to make the sacrament which ought to be pronounced vpon the matter or in administring the matter and what might be those woordes for the supper wherin it is not inoughe to say that the word by the which the ordinance of Iesus Christ is declared is the woorde of the sacrament But they muste Answere in what woordes that speeche consistes and when it ought to be pronounced Touching the sixthe Demaunde which is the principall the ministers care not to Answere pertinently and clearely only they exhibite a captious Answer by which it can not be perceiued what is their opinion of the presence and participation of the body of Iesus Christe in the supper And so doe they temper their spéeche that there is neither Zuinglian nor Almanist which confesseth not as muche or more than they that is to say that they are conioyned to our Lord Iesus Christe and that they possesse him ii vertue of their Faithe and by the operation of the holy Ghoste as to be made fleshe of his fleshe and bones of his bones c. But it is farre from the question which was if in the sacrament of the supper the Faithfull receiue in their soules besides all the spirituall graces amongst the which is communication with our Lord Iesus Christe the true bodie and the true bloude of him Really truely and touching the substance And if in the supper the Ministers make not distinction of the substance contained and perceiued in the Sacrament from the frutes and effects which procéede therof And to be short we aske if the Ministers receiue and allowe that which Caluine in his Catechisme Institution other Bokes hathe written of the Supper and that whiche is receiued therein Touching the seuenth Demaund the Ministers haue not vnderstand what was proponed to them touching the concomitance for they haue taken it as if the Demaund ran whether it was lawful to receiue the sacrament vnder one kind or not which was not ment nor put in question onely this was the difficultie that was proponed to them whether in their supper when the bread is receiued and afore the wine be receiued they participate really with the true body of Iesus Christe and not participate with his bloud till they haue taken the wine or whether in eating the bread the bodie be receiued afore the cuppe be taken To which Demaundes to the ende Paper be not spente and moiled for nothing we admonishe the ministers to Answere without swaruing or varietie and yelde open Confession of their Faithe And that we may knowe what Doctrine we may impugne or approue Touching the Articles of the Masse we reserue them to their propre places which is of the Sacrifice of the body and bloud of Iesus Christe after it be knowne and proued that they are present in the supper and holy sacrament Sunday the fourthe of August the yeare aforesaide An Answere of the Ministers to the vvryting of the Doctours sent vnto them by the Duke of Nyuernois the Wedensday morning the seuenth
touching their escapes they are to be conuinced by the simple reading of the bookes Touching the residue of the Ministers resolution containing many iniuries slaunders and wronges against vs we aunswer nothing hauing regarde to the maner of theyr doinges Like as also we consider it should be but paine lost to teache the Ministers who for their instruction esteeme more their particular reuelation than all the doctrine of the vniuersall church and all the Christians together And lastly we pardon them with all our heartes at the wrongs they haue done vs as beyng people estraunged from their full sense and without iudgement which they well declare by the maner of their doing The Doctors obiection touching the Supper against the Aunswer of the Ministers IT appeares sufficiently in the actes of the first dayes arguing why in the beginning of the conferences we touched not the articles of the supper wherein the Ministers do maliciously slaūder vs in saying we refused to enter into the matter of the same as is truly proued as well by our sundry offers made to them to conferre thereof verbally to the ende to aduaunce it with more spéede and so at leysure to set it downe in writing which the Ministers refused as also by our former obiections touching the article of the almightynesse By these we touched the groundes wherupon are builded the errours of the religion pretended reformed against the reall presence of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the holy Sacrament The same being to be iustified further in that wée obiect to them certayne argumentes agaynst their Supper the rather to make them enter into it To the whiche eyther they haue aunswered nothing at all or at least so impertinentlye that euen the woordes of their aunswer discouer their disposition to flée the combat As yet they continue by their last writings hiding so farre as they can that which they thinke of the supper notwithstanding they haue bene required to aunswer both to purpose and truth But whether they or wée refused the effect standes to iudge For though they wyll not aunswer yet we wyll not forbeare to aduise them and reueale to the whole world the intollerable errours aswell in the Supper as in all the doctrine of the Ministers Who being asked yet dare not confesse and iustifie what hath bene written by the inuenters of their supper But now to begyn to speake of the supper the Ministers mayntaine it celebrated according to the ordinaunce of Iesus Christ and maner with the Apostels vsed in all the primitiue Churche when she floorished and whylest she remained in her purenesse Whereunto we aunswer with this question howe manye worldes they thinke that the doctrine hath remayned in her purenesse touching the Supper and whether as then the Church stood not as pure in the doctrine of al the other Articles as in this Besides whether since that tyme there was not found any place through the whole worlde where the true doctrine of the supper and the other Articles was retayned and preserued As also in what place and by whom from world to world it was preached and aduaunced In these we desire to be satisfied by the Ministers as importing muche bicause that afore Caluin preferred hys Catechisme there was no memorye in any Region of suche doctrine as he taught neither was the supper celebrated in the maner it is now in the reformed Church And we woulde gladlye relieue the Ministers who in their writinges séeme straungelye passioned that we haue sayde that their Supper differs not from a common Banquet sauing that it is woorse as beyng prophane and polluted But to encounter this they make a great speake of all the action of their sayde Supper and by goodlye accessories carying a forme of all pietie they labour to make it highlye commended couering a goodly nothing betwene two platters And of the contrarye to treade downe and deface the most precious sacrifice of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the Masse by tearing in péeces some accessorye of the same as though wée vsed it without reason and signification whiche the Ministers eyther vnderstande not or dissemble not to vnderstande But as thynges ought not to be taken and estéemed by their accessories but according to their value nature and truth so the Ministers haue to foresee that all the sectes standing at this day in all the worlde against the catholike Churche for the matter of the Sacrament vse at least thys brauerie that they do Who if they were asked there is not one of them which would not enforce to proue that their sect approcheth nearer Iesus Christ hys Apostels and the primitiue Churche than the Religion pretended reformed Touching all which we referre our selues to the writinges of the Lutherians Zwinglians Anabaptistes Trinitaries Maister Alasco with other lyke Therefore it is not reasonable by these faire voyces and speeches to preferre the supper of the Ministers afore other sectes with iudgement that it is good holye impoluted and according to gods word but rather to repute it infected and defiled with impietie as couering a dreame in place of truth and giues the accessaries of pietie to impietye and falshoode Neither haue we dispraysed their Supper for the thankes they giue to God or in respect of their confession of sinnes or their preaching if it containe matter of truth or for any other preparatiue But in this haue we named it to be detestable as not containing but common bread and wyne contrary to the ordinaunce of Iesus Christ and yet they attribute vnto it some spirituall effect with other goodly accessaries of pietie the same being a matter of more abominatiō and inuented by Sathan who séekes by suche maner of supper to quenche and abolish the true supper according to the institution of Iesus Christ and rob the faythfull of the fruite and truth of the said true supper in making them giue onely common bread in place of the body and bloud of our sauiour Iesus Christ Here we could recite the wicked accessories as well as they speake of the goodly which are in their supper as the secrete and newe enterprises which are practised vnder colour and shaddowe of the assemblies drawne together at their sayd supper but least the Ministers reproche vs that the Clerke speake of weapons of contributions c. we wyll altogether hold our peace and referre our selues to that which is contenting our selues to deduce certayne causes by the which we maintaine that there is no truth in the sayd Supper according to the institution of Iesus Christ First that in the supper of the Ministers and their lykes there cannot be made any consecration of the matter of the bread wyne which are there proposed and therfore there is not made in the sayd matter anye mutation either before the vse or in the vse or after and by consequence that the bread and wine in that Supper cannot be but common That there is no consecration made in their Supper it
the bread more briefly and darkely which is also proued by S. Paule The breade which we breake saithe he is not the Communion of the body of Christe which is a manner of figuratiue spéeche bicause that to speake and vnderstaÌ„d properly the bread which is a corporall and materiall thing is not the Communion which we haue in the body of Iesus Christe which is a thing spiritual and inuisible and yet it is so called as being a signe thereof to represent it to vs and assure vs of it euen as we call commonly the letter signed and sealed which containes the declaration of the last will of a man his Testament albeit it is not his testameÌ„t which is properly the declaration which he hath made verballie of his said will but it is so called bicause it is the instrument and testimonie thereof And euen as the Scripture and the Auncients as well to recommende and raise the dignitie of the signes and cutte of by that meane the mistaking of them as also for the conformitie and likenesse that is betwéene the signes the things signified haue attributed sometimes the names of the same things signified to the signes which they represent and speaking of the signes haue vsed figuratiue speeche So they haue spoken of them sundry other times properly to take away all occasion of abuse and preuent that in taking without distinction the signes of the thing signified by them there shuld be attributed to them the effectes which appertaine not but to the matters only which they signifie of these two sundry reasons and manner of spéeche there be examples as well in the scriptures as in the Auncient fathers Of the firste we haue an example in the Circumcision when it is called by figure aliance Gene. 17. vers 13. And of the seconde there is also an example in the same Chapter vers 11. where the Circumcision is properly called signe of the aliance in Exo. 12. ver 11. there is also an other example of the firste manner of figuratiue spéeche where the Lambe is called the Passeouer of the Lorde and touching the seconde man which is propre an example also in the same place vers 3. where the bloude of the Lambe is called a signe In like manner and order when is mention in the scripture of the supper the woordes run somtimes of the bread by figure as when it is called the bodye of Iesus Christe or the Communion of the body as hathe bene said before and sometimes also it is spoken of properly as when it is saide who so euer shall eate of this breade also euery one then proues himselfe and eates so of this breade Like diuersitie in bothe the manners of spéeche is founde oftentimes in the Auncient fathers touching the matter of the supper For sometimes they speake of the breade by figure calling it the body of Iesus Christe as S. Cyprian when he sayeth the body of the Lorde is taken with foule handes and his bloude dronke with a prophane and defiled mouthe and in an other place that we sucke his bloude and fasten oure tongs in the woundes of our Redéemer Likewise S. Ierome when he saithe that Exuperius Bishop of Tholoze caryed the bodie of our Lorde in a little pannier of Willowes and his bloude in a glasse S. Chrysostome also when he wrytes that Iesus suffreth himselfe not onely to be seene but also to be touched and eaten and that teethe are fixed in his fleshe and touched with tong Lastly S. Augustine With what care do we take heede when the bodie of Iesus Christe is administred to vs that nothing of the same fall from our handes to the earthe All which senteÌ„ces with their likes are figuratiue wherin is no doubt that in the right and directe interpretation of them ought not to be taught to the readers but that in them the name of the thing signified is applied to the signes which signifie it which may be easily gathered of other sentences and textes of the saide Auncients where speaking properly of the breade and wine which are distributed in the supper they cal them signes and figures As Tertullian Iesus Christ saith he tooke breade and distributed it to his Disciples and makes it his body when he saith this is my body which is to say a figure of my body And Cyprian by the wine shewes the bloude of Christe Also in a Sermone which he made of the supper of oure Lorde As often as we do this we whette not our teethe to bite but breake and distribute the holy breade in true Faithe by the which we distinguishe the matter diuine and humaine Also in a Sermon he made De Câ—â—â—â—â—le the Lord gaue with his proper handes bread and wine in the Table wherein he performed his laste repaste with his Disciples but on the Crosse he deliuered into the hands of the armed men his body to be wounded to the ende he might imprinâ—e so muche the more deepely the truthe into his disciples and they to declare to the people how the bread and wine were his body and bloud and howe the sacrament agréed with the thing for the which it was instituted and also howe one sacrament is made of two things and therefore is named with two names and one selfe name is giuen to that which signifieth and to that which is signified S. â—asile propones to vs figures and patrones of the sacred bodie and bloud of Iesus Christe And likewise S. Augustine the Lord had no horror to say this is my body when he gaue the signe of his body The Lord receiued Iudas to his supper wherin he recommended and gaue to his Disciples the figure of his bodie S. Ierome After he had eaten the Pascall Lambe with his disciples he tooke bread to strengthen the hart of man and past to the true sacrament of the passage to the end that as Aâ—lchisedech had done before in his figure he mighte also there represent his true bodie S. Ambrose this sacrifice is a figure of the body and bloud of our Lord Iesus Christe Chrysostome he hath dressed this Table to the ende he may shew vs daily the breade and wine in mysterie and similitude of the body and bloude of Christ And it happeneth sometimes that a Doctor in this matter expoundes the other as may be perceiued in the conference of the two places the one of S. Augustine alreadie alleaged and the other of Tertullian in the Booke of the crowning of a Knighte where he sayth we hardly suffer that any thing of oure breade and wine fall on the earthe In place of that which S. Augustine to the same matter saythe as hathe bene recited heere before we take diligent heede that nothing of the body of oure Lorde fail on the earthe And euen as in diuers places the Auncientes as hathe bene declared haue vsed the two manners of speeche aforesaide speaking of the supper sometimes by figure somtimes simple and properly so it is oftentimes
vocation is necessary to suche effecte But not that this vocation is the imposition which they pretend assuring our selues that our vocation is more lawfull and better grounded than that of the Doctors Where the Doctors in the Article folowing alleage that we haue not Answered them to their sufficient liking touching the partes of the sacrament and the woord required for the consecration of the matter in the same we Aunswer that in our wrytings is no ambiguitie no darke sense nor any inuolution but suche as the Doctors list to finde there wherin as we lay our selues vppon the iudgement of the vpright hearers So also it becomes no more straunge to vs that the doctors chalenge vs of darke wryting than it was to S. Paul that his gospell was hid and couered to those that perished whose vnderstandings the God of this world had blinded Touching the presence of Iesus Christe in the supper wherin they would vrge vs to declare more amplie than in our former Aunswer we say we haue Aunswered sufficient clearly notwithstanding the doctors rest not satisfied wherof we make no greate maruell as knowing that they haue seldome in custome to be contented onlesse we consent both to their demaundes and desires which we are not nowe setled to do and much lesse that our Aunswer excéede the limits and bounds of the scripture neither in this Article of the supper nor in others but onely to folow the phrases and manners of spéeche of the same as neere as we can possibly By meane wherof for a full and resolute Aunswer we acknowledge no other eating of the flesh and bloud of Iesus Christe whether in or out of the supper than that which Iesus Christ declares in the sixth Chapter of S. Iohn who eateth my fleshe and drinketh my bloud he hath life euerlasting also he that eateth my fleshe and drinketh my bloude he dwelles in me and I in him as the liuing Father hath sent me so I goe thither bicause of my father and he that shall eate me shall liue also bicause of me Vppon the last Article which is of the concomitance we Aunswer that the Doctors demaunde was not so harde that we conceiued it not only we dissembled it as not to lose time to speake and write of such dreames wherin also we iudged the Doctors of sufficient suttletie to vnderstande that in denying them Transubstantiation was not to approue their concomitance And nowe to satisfie them we make this addition not to seke to know more than that which Iesus Christ teacheth in his woord that in the supper to participate in his flesh crucified and blud shed for remission of sinnes we must take and eat the bread and drinke the wine which are administred and not deuide or separate them in any sort the same being also defended by the Canons De confecr dist 2. Cum omne crimen Wedensday the fourtenth of August the yeare aforesaide This wryting being dispatched and sent away the Ministers not long after went to the Lord of Neuers with declaration that for their parts they had at large handled this coÌ„ference as finding the doctors by their impertinent and vain questions hitherto to séeke only to winne time without any aduauncement at al of the solution of the supper the Masse And albeit they disguised their demaundes as necessarily to tend to a prepratiue for this disputation yet they contained no other purpose than not at all to enter the conference but rather to kéepe things in suspence vntil they grew weary by which meanes this holy purpose mighte altogither dissolue breake in the ends they besoughte him humbly to aduise the Doctors without vaine varietie or change of matter to auoide the difference and refute that which the Ministers had maintained of the supper and defend that which they had coÌ„demned of the Masse wherein they obtained his promisse which gaue them a hope of profitable matter héereafter and such as might serue to edifie the readers and purge the greatest abuse and error that then occupied the Romishe Church All this notwithstanding there ran immediately a brute thorow the towne that Vigor was falne into a dangerous sicknesse without likelihoode of spéedy recouery the same giuing a feare to the Ministers to be intercepted in their laste hope which they doubted so muche the more as at the instant they were told that Doctor Sainctes was also gone out of Paris to the Cardinal of Loraine by which they could not otherwayes presume than that they should be enforced to a long abode in Paris without any sette exercise to occupie the time as being come thither but by chance for Spyna but made it in his way to passe into Aufon and for the other being Minister to the Church of Orleans it was not long since he was taken out of prison whether he was led in Iune afore vpon a false imputation by the enimies of Gods Churche charging him to be Author of a most pernitious wicked Boke written against the obedience to Kings and Princes by which he founde it very inconuenient for him to tarie so long in the Towne whether he came not at the first willingly For these respects they resolued eftsones to returne to the Lord of Neuers and also to tel him that séeing doctor Sainctes who might haue taried and drawne to him in Vigors place some other at his plesure was departed without any aduertisement of his returne there was also no reason of their abode stil as wel in respect of the incertaintie of their businesse as also that their Churches had neede of them for the exercise of their charge as they desired notwithstaÌ„ding in the end they yelded to their propre incommoditie as to remaine there vntil the Lord of Neuers parted from Paris which shuld be vpon the ende of August being minded then to go to a Lordship of his called Conlomiers for then hauing neither the presence of the Lord of Neuers nor the company of the Doctors the Ministers were at a gaze as hauing nothing to doe nor any man to dispute withall Vpon these declarations the Lorde of Neuers deliuered them their pasport in wryting signed Lodouico de Gonzague with promisse to send vnto them the Answer of the Doctors that by the meane of the Lord de Buci S. Georg who vndertoke the charge of the businesse The Ministers for their parts promised also to be ready to returne to Paris either els to Answer from the place where they should remaine as often as the Doctors would wryte This businesse being thus setled the Ministers departed immediatly with expectation of some spéedie newes froÌ„ the Doctors from whom as yet they haue hard neither argumeÌ„t nor effect only they haue hard that thorow the citie of Paris there hathe bene publike sale of certaine wrytings within whose titles is included this woord of conference as to make séeme to the worlde that they contained matter touching the former disputations this policie was not without great profite to the Printers so vehemente was the desire of men to knowe the truthe for whose satisfying and contentment we thought good to spred abrode the matter as it passed in déede reseruing till an other time to publish that which the doctors would wryte against it if they will wryte at all and also the Ministers Answeres which shall neuer faile In the meane while let euery one make his profite of the present Contentes with prayer to the Father of all lighte to poure more and more the cleare lighte of his spirite vpon his Church in the true vnderstanding of his holy woorde for the restoring and aduauncement of the spirituall kingdom of Iesus Christe his Sonne our Lorde FINIS 2. Tim. 3. 2 Pet. Rom. 15. Iames 1. Luke 16. Luke 2. Sorbonae a College of Papists in Paris Cap. 7.18 Rom. 12.6 Cap 59. 21. Deut. 28. Rom. 8.9 Chap. 2.20.27 1. Tim 3 15 Psal. 30. Chap. 13. Hebrues 13. Rom. 10. Hebr. 11. Rom. 10. Iohn 24. Luk. 24. Hebr 12. Iohn 8. 1. Timo. 2 Hebr. 6. Actor 12. Actor 5. Luke 24 Lib. 4. Cap. 17. Sect. 29. Hebr. 4.14 Iohan. 12. Act. 7. King. 1.11 Iohn 6. Ephe. 2. Psal. 7.5.2.8 1. Cor. 15. 2. Cor. 6. 1. Cor. 1. Iohn 14 Ephe. 3. Iohn 17. 1. Cor. 4.13 Rom. 10. Iohn 6. 1. Cor. 10. Math. 26. 1. Cor. 11. Gene. 17. Exod. 12. Tit. 3. epist. â—3 â— Corrin 1. Cor. 1. In a Sermon of the supper Chap. 16. Hom. 17. epist. 29. Agaynst Faustine 1. Cor. 11. Sermo 3. ad Ephesi