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A62668 To receive the Lords Supper, the actual right and duty of all church-members of years not excommunicate made good against Mr. Collins his exceptions against The bar removed, written by the author : and what right the ignorant and scandalous tolerated in the church have to the Lords Supper declared : many thing belonging to that controversie more fully discussed, tending much to the peace and settlement of the church : and also a ful answer to what Mr. Collins hath written in defence of juridical suspension, wherein his pretended arguments from Scripture are examined and confuted : to which is also annexed A brief answer to the Antidiatribe written by Mr. Saunders / by John Timson ... Timson, John.; Timson, John. Brief answer to the antidiatribe written by Mr. Saunders. 1655 (1655) Wing T1296; ESTC R1970 185,323 400

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in the power of a● to reform it Hence I conclude that as it● not applyable unto the rules of Church dicipline so it is such an avoidable thing 〈◊〉 Church-members that not any man of reson will plead the punishing of with suspe● sion from the Lords Supper If the Apostles meaning 1 Cor. 11. wenthat the Corinths were punished for habit●● unworthinesse and that whosoever eats as drinks that is personally unworthy is gui●● of the body and bloud of the Lord and 〈◊〉 eating his own damnation then these se●ral inconveniences and snares must neces● rily follow That there is not any Minister on cancan administer the Sacrament clearly in fai● because he cannot have a clear ground 〈◊〉 faith for him to believe that those he delive the Sacrament unto are habitually wort● from their interest in Christ so that 〈◊〉 must still lye under the bondage of fear a● doubt of his communicating with others 〈◊〉 the murder of Christ and eating and drinkin their own damnation That all weak doubting fearful Christian either Ministers or others that are not groundedly assured of their interest in Christ for acceptance in this service cannot come in faith for he that doubts is damned if he eat and what ever is not of faith is sin Such persons that are not upon good ground assured of the truth of their own worthinesse cannot be assured of their eating and drinking worthily but must of necessity lye under the fear of being guilty of what is threatned and so eat doubtingly if such venture to come which is sin or else they must forbear until they be assured or are fully perswaded of the truth of their own personal worthinesse And this would be the perplexity of most sincere Christians there being but few in comparison of those that arrive to any grounded assurance of their own justification sanctification salvation c. Hence we may concive that when Mr. Collins cals the Sacrament strong meat he means because there is not any but strong Christians that can partake thereof with satisfaction peace and comfort And so upon the matter he denyes it to be milk for babes as well as a means of working grace in those that want it That all blinde self-conceited Pharisees and senslesse secure carnal Christians formal confident hypocrites that never were acquainted with any saving work of grace upon their spirits may come to the Sacrament boldly for they doubt not of their good estate before God and hence they shall be 1. Either flattered in their grosse presumption by the Churches admittance of them Or 2. They must be bard out by such ban as the Scriptures no where make That hence Ministers of the Gospel a● forc'd to detract un worthily from Christs authority in hiscommanding this observance t● the whole Church disswading their people from this service due to Christ more then fro● any other whatsoever and so will presume t● loose where Christ binds or else are force● to suspend them illegally and so presume t● bind where Christ doth loose leave at liberty freely to serve him in his own appointments What a snare doth this kinde of unworthy eating bring upon all the unregenerate and doubting Christians If they neglect the Sacrament for want of personal worthinesse they sin in omitting so great a duty of publick worship if they observe it as well a they can yet being unworthy they eat an● drink their own damnation by being guilty of the bloud of Christ as some say What doth more occasion godly and tender consciences to withdraw Communion from our Parochial congregations gather Churches out of a Church then fear of personal unworthy eating and drinking in Sacramental Communion as for the external action● in the present administration the deportments of all generally are such as are inoffensive and they doe not separate from us for the most part out of any other dislike of publique Worship That hence it is that we make the nature of Sacraments to clash with themselves in that we will not suffer them to meet in the same subjects and are afraid to administer the seal to those parents whose children we freely administer it unto but the resusal of the o●●e followed home will soon destroy the administration to the other for in all Scripture Churches they always meet together in one and the same subject When Mr. Collins hath chewed well of these several things I hope he will finde in himself a better digesting of that which I have given of the Apostles sense And therefore in the next place I shall come to touch a little further of actual unworthinesse in reference to the Sacrament having clearly removed that miserable mistake of personal unworthinesse in order to unworthy receiving And indeed the whole controversie will be brought to actuall sinning for that is the very thing the Church of Corinth was blamed and punished for Then the dispute will lye in these few questions Whether any unworthy actions of persons in the Church makes them guilty of unworthy receiving more then of unworthy Communion in other special parts of publick worship or no Whether the Church be able to judge i● particular what persons in the Church upon tryal or otherwise will of necessity be guilty of the body and bloud of Christ and ea● judgement to themselves in the Apostle sense Whether the Church hath power to suspen Church-members from Sacramental Comm●nion allowing them the priviledges of al● the other Ordinances I shall answer in the negative unto the●● under favour to Mr. Collins or any othe● that shall endevour to give further satisfactions to the questions And to the first I ha● hinted at already in answer to Mr. Colli● quotations 1 Cor. 5. chap. 10. all that b● hath said from those Scriptures doth no● amount to eating and drinking unworthily that was punished chap. 11. I have also in m● Book shewed at large what eating and drinking unworthily it was that was punished and which made guilty of the body an● bloud of Christ in short I conceive it we● an open abuse or a Sacrilegious profaning holy things to common use with other disorders in the very time of the administring the Lords Supper practically destroying the very essence and spiritual ends of Chris●● holy institution And upon this accoun● alone they were guilty of the body and bloud of Christ and of eating judgement to themselves not for any other cause or sins they lay under but for this cause some are dead c. And whosoever they are that eat and drink the outward signes set apart by the Word and Prayer to represent the body and bloud of Christ unworthily as the Corinthians did are guilty of the same sin and lyable to the same judgements but that all other sinful actions committed before they come though not repented of doth make guilty of polluting the body and bloud of Christ and of judgement they demeaning themselves reverently and conformly as to the externals thereof is to me not only doubtful but
then be any plea for thee at the Judgement seat of Jesus Christ for he will say unto all such false hearted profane Christians at the last Depart from me ye workers of iniquity c. In the next place we come to the Sacramental Actions he says I have argued learnedly when I say the unregenerate have a hand to take and a mouth to eat which the reverent Doctor denyed because they have not faith c. I desired him to prove that faith was that hand but Mr. Collins hath prevented him and given his proof of it in John 6.54 53 56. compared with vers 40.35 50. Ephes 4.17 Joh. 3.36 The 6. of John doth prove Answ that a sincere saving faith in the person of Christ is of absolute necessity unto salvation Christ is the bread of life which came down from heaven to give life unto the dead world he that believes in him shall never hunger and thirst more but shall have everlasting life and be raised up at the last day And the very humane body of Christ as consisting of flesh and bloud without which he could not have been made a perfect Sacrifice for sin nor satisfied the justice of God for mankinde that had sinned was this bread of God which whosoever believed not hath no part in But what is this to prove that faith is the only hand to receive the outward signs of the body and bloud of our Lord Doth it follow that the same faith is as necessary to receive an outward sign as the benefits that come by Christ unto salvation This chapter proves no such thing it having no reference at all to the Sacrament of the holy Supper for these words were spoken long before the Sacrament of the Supper was instituted and ordained I hope the real flesh and bloud of Christs humane body is not to be received under the forms of bread and wine nor indeed at all for it 's the Spirit of Christ that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing The words of Christ unto his they are Spirit and life I am sorry the Papists should see our Divines applying this 6. of John to the Sacrament I say still as before that taking and eating are bodily actions and to be understood according to the rules of institution which the unregenerate Christians are capable to doe and act as well as any And it remains still to prove by Mr. Collins favour that take and eat c. is meant of faith to be the hand and mouth to take and eat with his quotations are drawn too much awry to speak his opinion I must demand further proof or else he will not clear the thing I am sure I grant that unto actual receiving of the signes there should be in every one both a knowing and a believing that Christs bloud were shed for many for remission of sins and that themselves take and eat the outward elements of bread and wine in that remembrance in hope that they are of that unmber which Christ laid down his life for I grant it necessary that every one that comes to the Lords Table come in the warranty of faith and to be fully perswaded of the lawfulnesse of their own receiving for whatsoever is not of faith is sin And hence all the Church as professing themselves Christs subjects must plead for their warranty Christs command Doe this in remembrance of him I grant it good and lawful for them that truly can in the act of receiving to exercise an act of faith in appropriating and applying the true real spiritual bread of life Jesus Christ himself with all the saving benefits of his death unto their souls but yet I deny that this is of necessity required of all that come thither to serve Christ in his own Ordinance I grant that the outward signes are holy in a relative sense as respecting their end and so are objects of faith and of the minde but as they are signs simply and elementary they are only objects of the outward senses and not of faith properly I grant that the Sacraments are of fingular use for the encrease and growth in grace of the most eminent Christians in the Church and yet have their special use for the weakest babes in the Church for knowledge and Christian obedience even the worst of members as it is Gods Ordinance may receive good by it where God is pleased to give his blessing as in all his other Ordinances set up in his Church for the spiritual good thereof Mr. Collins had thought the taking eating and drinking the outward signs must be spiritual by faith he sayes I think there is but few of his minde in Answ this for certainly nothing more clear the● that to take eat and drink of the signs i● natural and bodily which is necessary to be done by every one from the words of institution And as they are elements or creature fit to eat and drink they are properly objects of the outward senses and not of faith as I said before which natural actions are appointted unto a spiritual end which end requires the exercise of the minde memory heart and conscience faith in Christ being supposed in all that are baptized and admited thither I mean a profession of faith 〈◊〉 be saved by Jesus Christ at least And ho● Mr. Collins can prove that all the actions about giving and receiving must be spiritual by faith I know not unlesse he can tell how to make a Sacrament of every action abo●● the Sacramental administration the which to doe will finde him some work Let hi● prove that take and eat is a sign of our spiritual taking and eating by faith which is more easie to be proved then the other that to take and eat must be spiritual by faith for then all natural actions are needlesse if faith be all that is meant And if those actions be significant and instruct the receiver to receive Christ by a particular applicatory act of faith I hope the unregenerate have as much need to be taught and encouraged unto this by the Sacrament as any I know n●● incongruity in this I said in my Book pag. 38 39. The language of the Sacrament was in general and indefinite terms This cup is the New Testament in my bloud shed for many for remission of sins c. Mr. Collins asks who those many are and answers himself and saith disciples of Christ It 's true Answ 1 Christs Disciples are of those many Christ shed his bloud for And what doth Mr. Collins conceive of Church-members baptized and not excommunicate Are not they Christs disciples if not let him prove them Infidels if he can When the Lord Jesus said he shed his bloud for many he means not only his disciples in present being that are called and sanctified but the whole number of his elect in all ages and places of the world for remission of sins and the Sacramental cup is a token and seal thereof to be received at all times by the
clear upon sufficient proof the Christian Magistrate hath to doe with them those things being punishable by death in our Law And such malefactors cannot ordinarily escape the penalty of the Law if the Magistrate will n● doe his duty The Church may assoo● judicially excommunicate as suspend su● And it 's a question that wiser men then I ha● need to answer Whether such scandalo● sinners as Mr. Collings speaks of ought no● most properly to be punished by the Judge in a Christian Common-wealth according to the penalties the Law of God directs i● such cases And whether the Church has 〈◊〉 doe at all with such or no in point of censures is a question as for other forts of sinners that the Laws of this Common-wealth doth more indulge the Churches cognisance in point of discipline may reach 〈◊〉 she be in that capacity otherwise she ca● but instruct the ignorant warn the unruly re●buke in publick the open offender admonish all an● have patience towards all men Every Christian in his place to doe what in them lyes to reform themselves and not suffer sinne to lye upon their brother But as for that knack of excommunicable and meerly upon that account keep members back without any tryal whether their offendings b● out of weaknesse or wilfulnesse or without any legal proceedings in order to their amendment is a very bold part Such precedents are of pernicious consequence in these times where we have none to make our appeal unto knowing how that Brownism hath too much leavened the greatest part of the most knowing men Ministers and others in the Church of England Well let not any presume upon sin themselves in pretence of punishing sin in others If you cannot act orderly according to clear rule make not such haste to reform as to goe about it in an unwarrantable way as for Church-members that are in possession of their right according to law doe not dispossesse them untill the Church authoritatively hath given out judgement against them Let not our Church-men be more irrational then our Lawyers for subjects in the Common-wealth And as for that he saith Church-members not knowing whether Christ were a man or a woman I am sorry that any should be so grossely ignorant I thank God I never have known any such if Mr. Collings have I hope not in his Parish And I cannot but judge it a reproach of our Church and Ministry if any such can be found amongst us But it 's a lamentable thing notwithstanding our scruples about Sacramental Communion so many years together but few that have prepared their people ever the more by doubling their diligence in catechizing of them plainly and familiarly in publick and private Which I fear some that appear forward for a purer Communion in seven years time never did so much as in a friendly way spend so much as an hour with their poor ignorant people in private to inform them better and to know their conditions and incourage them to learn the things of God in order to their better profiting in publick administrations How long is it that we have been excepting against poor ignorant brethren and yet not ordinary means used to prevent it more then heretofore if so much for in the Bishops times care was taken that all did learn the Lords Prayer the Creed and the ten Commandements with the explanations of them and other parts of the Churches Catechising we had our set Prayers that people were apt to learn but now in many places people never hear the Lords Prayer Creed nor Commands scarse in the year nor have in use any common plain Catechism c. Ah poor souls that care is not towards them I verily judge as good Shepheards have of their Masters dumb sheep who will see to every particular one that it be kept in order and that nothing obstruct its growth and feeding and if any sheep goe astray he diligently seeks it and bringeth it to his fellows and when either flye or scab doth hinder its prosperity he will not let it alone untill the poor sheep come to him though he should call it but he will goe to it and gently catch it although it's so silly to flee from him and mercifully help it he will not let them goe till they be infectious and then separate the broken from the whole but endeavour to keep every one in that order that all may fold together Act. 20.28 Take heed therefore unto your selves and to all over the which the holy Ghost hath made you overseers to feed the Church of God which he hath purchased with his own bloud If you have that love to your Lord and Master as you should you will feed his sheep and lambs that they may fold together Reverend Elders we are fallen into carelesse times in respect of the Worship of God little or no care is taken that our people constantly frequent the publick assemblies ignorant persons are left to watch to themselves you have the more cause to apply your selves to them in private even from house to house and be tender unto them as a nurse cherisheth her children to insinuate your selves in a friendly familiar way into them will gain in them a reverent esteem of you in their hearts which will give you the advantage of perswading them to receive instruction from you both in publick and private It 's an easie businesse to make a separation in your flocks and to cast off the relation of Pastor and people and to neglect relative duties and to fill your people with prejudices divisions and discontents and to break the peace and union of the whole but a work of commendable difficulty when with care prudence and diligence you so apply your selves unto all as they that must give an account unto God of every particular soul committed to your charge Remember the bloud of souls and judge your selves bound to deal with the worst of your people as members of the body of Christ while they remain children of the Kingdom and not reckon them dogs and Swine untill they be legally put out of Church-Communion and hate to be reformed by the Churches censures Mr. Pag. 24. Collings urgeth against my principles thus He must be able to discern the Lords Body from comm●n bread But many men may be Church members and rational and yet not able to doe this therefore something else must he added The Minor wants prof Answ and so is but a reproach to Church-members reflecting upon our Teachers that have opportunity enough to inform the meanest capacity of years more then so And that reverent and trembling approaching generally every where doth prove that they judge otherwise of the consecrated signes then of common bread why should Mr. Collings be so uncharitable to any that professe their desires and offer themselves reverently in conscience of this service he knowing that there is enough in the words of institution consecration by Word and Prayer the words used in the
act of giving and receiving sufficiently to inform the meanest person that the elements are signs of the body and bloud of Christ and that they eat and drink in remembrance of Christ for remission of sins c. His Conclusion is false because his Minor wants proof Again He brings in a childe of five or six years old as able to exercise reason and so is a Church-member if baptized and if these two things give a plenary right such ought to be admitted Children minde childish things ordinarily and nothing else Answ and they come not under the obligation of worship as men of age that have put away childish things And what if it be granted him that they have some childish reason doth it follow that they have religious devotion from a principle of conscience as men of age ordinarily expresse in most solemn sacred worship Let him answer to what hath been said already as to this particular before he concludes as he doth That what he hath said is sufficient to shew the vanity of this conceit as he is pleaseed to call it that meer Church membership with years of discretion gives one a full right to the Lords Supper What he means by full right he may doe well to explain himself I have told him plainly enough that Church-membership having its rise from Covenant relation gives a true right unto all external Church-priviledges during that relative state of actual membership I know that their real state of spiritual interest in Christ doth put members into a higher capacity to improve their right for their spiritual advantage then those that are but in that relative state only of visible members in a large sense Yet the good improvement of the one doth not hinder nor take away the just right of the other An ill husbands right in law is as good as the best husbands in the world untill by law his right be taken away And an evill member in the Common-wealth hath as much priviledge in respect of the benefit of the law while he is a member as any other of the same kinde though never so good The best subject is but a subject and the worst subject is a subject untill he be out-lawed or convicted of treason So I say in the Church the best and holyest man that lives is but a Church-member and the worst that lives he being baptized and adhering to the true religion and under Church indulgence is a member also of the same visible Church and in respect of his relative state his right is as good to the Sacrament as the other in a legal sense for the one is as much under observance as the other all are Covenanters and have entred it at least and hence stand bound to the tearms of Christian obedience There is but one Law and rule for good and bad the one hath received the Spirit of the Covenant that makes his service sweet and easie the other is notwithstanding under the letter of administrations in a waiting for a blessing and may not be released Such have the right of precept which is a sufficient warranty for their observance of the Supper The other not only that but the right of spiritual priviledge and blessing through the real union and communion with Jesus Christ And Mr. Collings his superadded qualifications to membership or Covenanters to give a right to precepts of worship is so flat by this time he urging it so often that I shal trouble my reader with it no more only take notice that upon the matter he makes membership a meer nothing for doe but superadde a knowledge of the things of God conjoyned with faith in Christ evidenced by the fruits of holinesse unto a Turk or any other Pagan or Jew in the Infidel world it would give them the right of membership and Sacraments and therefore at once you may see what clear conceptions Mr. Collings hath of the priviledges of Church-membership In this page Mr. Collings conceives Pag. 25. That I have dealt more unbrotherly with the friends of Presbyterian Discipline even some hundreds of them both learned and reverend men as I charge the Doctor to have done with Mr. Humfrey and that by entring some exceptions against that discipline Bar removed pag. 8 9 10. I have spoke to this already Answ I am sorry that such groundlesse consequences I observed from the reverend Doctor should reflect upon some hundreds of learned reverend friends to the Presbyterian discipline I had thought the most of the things I am unsatisfied in as being meerly groundlesse would not have been owned by some hundreds of such learned men I spoke chiefly of them that are Congregations unassociated and when Mr. Collings or any other can clear themselves of what I charge them with I shal either make good my charge if you take it so or else submit unto you and acknowledge it my weaknesse to be unsatisfied of the truth of what I pointed at in those 8 9 10 pages of my Book In the mean time Mr. Collings being the first that I have heard of that hath put so hard a sense of my dissatisfactions notwithstanding I have many Presbyterian friends learned and reverend it makes me something question whether many will charge it on me for unbrotherly dealing or no. I being but a private Christian might do it in order to my own and divers others satisfaction that are in no such way nor dare attempt any such practices although we have made after the search of warrant for those wayes as well as other men we not knowing how to know the minde of Christ better then by his Word in these things nor how to know the simplicity of truth then by seeking of God by prayer and humiliation for guidance and direction in our free and serious debates in the presence of the Lord amongst our selves in order unto practice the which we of great Bowden have carefully done even a considerable number of us with our Minister before we did communicate together in the holy Supper And we hope the Lord was with us in the whole we are fully satisfied and not ashamed to publish unto others of our Christian brethren the grounds and principles we act from Our greatest grief is that we observe too great a carelesnesse in our people to worship God with us in this great engaging Ordinance of holy Communion in the Sacrament of the holy Supper And this we shall further declare that although our Minister were and is one of our old Non conformists and did indevour to draw us into another way of Communion yet such was our answers and grounds that he was satisfied therewith And doth administer Sacraments freely with a setled satisfied judgment we blesse and praise our God for it Let others judge of us what they please we judge that we act according to the minde of Christ considering that present capacity we are in In this 26. page he is pleased to examine my queries upon 1 Cor.