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A69535 The grand debate between the most reverend bishops and the Presbyterian divines appointed by His Sacred Majesty as commissioners for the review and alteration of the Book of common prayer, &c. : being an exact account of their whole proceedings : the most perfect copy. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.; Commission for the Review and Alteration of the Book of Common Prayer. 1661 (1661) Wing B1278A; Wing E3841; ESTC R7198 132,164 165

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in Whitsun week The two Collects for St. Johns and Innocents the Collects for the first day in Lent for the fourth Sunday after Easter for Trinity Sunday for the sixth and twelfth sunday after Trinity for St. Lukes day and Michaelmas day We desire that these Collects may be further considered and debated as having in them divers things that we judge fit to be altered The Order for the Administration of the Lords Supper SO many as intend to be partakers of the holy Communion shall signifie their Name to the Curate over night or else in the morning before the beginning of morning Prayer The time here assigned for notice to be given to the Minister is not sufficient And if any of these be an open and notorious evil liver the Curate having knowledge thereof shall call him and advertize him in any wise not to presume to come to the Lords Table We desire the Ministers power both to admit and keep from the Lords Table may be according to his Majesties Declaration of the 25. Octob. 1660. in these words The Minister shall admit none to the Lords Supper till they have made a credible profession of their faith and promised obedience to the will of God according as is expressed in the consideration of the Rubrick before the Catechisme and that all possible diligence be used as is for the instruction and reformation of seandalous offendors whom the Minister shall not suffer to partake of the Lords table untill they have openly declared themselves to have truly repented and amended their former naughty lives as is partly expressed in the Rubrick and more fully in the Cannons Then shall the Priest rehearse distinctly all the ten Commandments and the people kneeling shall after every Commandment ask God mercy for transgressing the same We desire First that the Preface prefixed by God himself to the ten Commandments may be restored Secondly that the fourth Commandment may be read as in Exodus 20. Deut. 5. He blessed the Sabbath day Thirdly that neither Minister nor People may be enjoyned to kneel more at the reading of this then of any other parts of Scripture The rather because many ignorant persons are thereby induced to use the ten Commandments as a prayer Fourthly that instead of those short prayers of the people intermixed with the several Commandments the Minister after the reading of all may conclude with a suitable Prayer After the Creed if there be no sermon she ll follow one of the Homilies already set forth or hereafter to be set forth by common authority We desire that the preaching of the Word may be strictly injoyned and not left so indifferent at the administration of the Sacrament as also that Ministers may not be bound to those things which are as yet but future and not in being After the Sermon Homily or Exhortation the Curate shall declare c. and earnestly exhort them to remember the poor saying one or more of these sentences following Two of the sentences here cited are Apocryphal and four of them more proper to draw out their peoples bounty to their Minister then their charity to the poor Then shall the Church-wardens or some other by them appointed gather the Devetion of the people Collection for the poor may be better made at or a little before the departing of the Communicants We be come together at this time to feed at the Lords Supper to the which in Gods behalf I bid you all that be here present and beseech you for the Lord Jesus Christs sake that you will not refuse to come If it be intended that these Exhortations should be read at the Communion they seem to us unreasonable The way and means thereto is first to examine our lives conversations and if ye shall perceive your offences to be such as be not only against God but also against our neighbours then you shall reconcile your selves unto them and be ready to make restitution and satisfaction And because it is requisite that no man should come to the holy Communion but with a full trust in Gods mercy and with a quiet conscience We fear this may discourage many from comming to the Sacrament who lye under a doubting and troubled conscience Then shall this general confession be made in the name of all those that are minded to receive the holy Communion either by one of them or by one of the Ministers or by the Priest himself We desire it may be made by the Minister only Then shall the Priest or the Bishop being present stand up and turning himself to the people say thus The Ministers turning himself to the people is most convenient throughout the whole ministration Before the Prefaces on Christmas day and seven daies after Because thou didst give Jesus Christ thine only Son to be born as this day for us c. First we cannot peremptorily fix the Nativity of our Saviour to this or that particular day Secondly it seems incongruous to affirm the birth of Christ and the descending of the holy Ghost to be on this day for seven or eight daies together Upon Whitsunday and six daies after According to whose most true promise the Holy ghost came down this day from Heaven grant us that our sinfull bodies may be made clean by his body and our soul washed by his most precious blood We desire that whereas these words seem to give a greater efficacy to the blood then to the Body of Christ may be altered thus That our sinful souls and bodies may be cleansed through his precious body and blood Prayer at the consecration Hear us O merciful father c. who in the same night that he was betrayed took bread and when he had given thanks he brake it and gave it to his Disciples saying take eat c. We conceive that the manner of consecrating of the Elements is not here explicite and distinct enough And the Ministers breaking of the bread is not so much as mentioned Then shall the Minister first receive the Communion in both kinds c. and after deliver it to the people in their hands kneeling and when he delivereth the bread he shall say The body of our Lord Jesus Christ which was given for thee preserve thy body and soul unto everlasting life and take and eat this in remembrance c. We desire that at the distribution of the Bread Wine to the Communicants we may use the words of our Saviour as near as may be and that the Minister be not required to deliver the bread wine into every particular Communicants hand and to repeat the words to eachone in the singular number but that it may suffice to speak them to divers joyntly according to our Saviours example We also desire that kneeling at the Sacrament it not being the gesture which the Apostles used though Christ
The reserving of Confirmation to the Bishop doth argue the Dignity of the Bishop above Presbyters who are not allowed to Confirm but does not argue any excellency in Confirmation above the Sacraments St. Hierom argues the quite contray ad Lucif cap. 4. That because Baptism was allowed to be performed by a Deacon but Confirmation only by a Bishop therefore Baptism was most necessary and of the greatest value The mercy of God allowing the most necessary means of Salvation to be administred by inferiour Orders and restraining the lesse necessary to the higher for the honour of their Order Reply O that we had the Primitive Episcopacy and that Bishops had no more Churches to oversee than in the Primitive times they had and then we would never speak against this reservation of Confirmation to the honour of the Bishop But when that Bishop of one Church is turned into that Bishop of many hundred Churches and when he is now a Bishop of the lowest rank that was an Arch-bishop when Arch-bishops first came up and so we have not really existent any meer Bishops such as the Antients knew at all but only Arch-bishops and their Curates Marvel not if we would not have Confirmation proper to Arch-bishops nor one man undertake more than an hundred can perform But if you will do it there is no remedie we have acquit our selves Prayer after the Imposition of hands is grounded upon the practice of the Apostles Heb. 6. 2. Acts 8. 17. Nor doth 25. Article say that Confirmation is a corrupt imitation of the Apostles practice but that the 5. commonly called Sacraments have ground partly on the corrupt following the Apostles c. which may be applied to some other of those 5 but cannot be applied to Confirmation unless we make the Church speak contradictions Reply But the question is not of Imposition of hands in generall but this Imposition in particular And you have never proved that this sort of Imposition called Confirmation is mentioned in those Texts And the 25. Article cannot more probably be thought to speak of any one of the 5. as proceeding from the corrupt imitation of the Apostles than of Confirmation as a supposed Sacrament We know no harm in speaking the language of holy Scripture Acts 8. 15. they laid their hands upon them and they received the Holy Ghost and though Impositions of hands be not a Sacrament yet it is a very fit sign to certifie the persons what is then done for them as the Prayer speaks Reply It is fit to speak the Scripture language in Scripture sense But if those that have no such power to give the Holy Ghost will say Receive the Holy Ghost it were better for them to abuse other language than Scripture language After Confirmation There is no inconvenience that Confirmation should be required before the Communion when it may be ordinarily obtained that which you here fault you elsewhere desire Reply We desire that the credible approved profession of Faith and repentance be made necessaries But not that all the thousands in England that never yet came under the Bishops hands as not one of many ever did even when they were at the highest may be kept from the Lords Supper for some cannot have that Imposition and others will not that yet are fit for Communion with the Church The Ring is a significant sign only of humane institution and was alwayes given as a pledge of fidelity and constant love and here is no reason given why it should be taken away nor are the reasons mentioned in the Roman Ritualits given in our Common-Prayer-Book Repl. We crave not your own forbearance of the Ring but the indifferencie in our use of a thing so mis-used and unnecessary These words in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost if they seem to make Matrimony a Sacrament may as well make all sacred yea civil actions of weight to be Sacraments they being usual at the beginning and ending of all such It was never heard before now that those words make a Sacrament Reply Is there no force in an argument drawn from the appearance of evil the offence and the danger of abuses when other words enow may serve turn They go to the Lords Table because the Communion is to follow Reply They must go to the Table whether there be a Communion or not Consecrated the estate of Matrimony to such an excellent mystery c. Though the institution of Marriage was before the Fall yet it may be now and is consecrated by God to such an excellent mystery as the representation of the spiritual marriage between Christ and his Church Eph. 5. 23. We are sorry that the words of Scripture will not please The Church in the 25. Article hath taken away the fear of making it for a Sacrament Reply When was Marriage thus consecrated If all things used to set forth Christs offices or benefits by way of similitude be consecrated then a Judge a Father a Friend a Vine a Door a Way c. are all consecrated things Scripture phrase pleaseth us in Scripture sense The new married persons the same day of their marriage must receive the Holy Communion This inforces none to forbear Marriage but presumes as well it may that all persons marriageable ought to be also fit to receive the Holy Sacrament And marriage being so solemn a Covenant of God they that undertake it in the fear of God will not stick to seal it by receiving the Holy Communion and accordingly prepare themselves for it Is were more Christian to desire that those licentious Festivities might be supprest and the Communion more generally used by those that marry the happiness would be greater then can easily be exprest Unde sufficiat ad enarrandum felicitatem ejus Matrimonii quod Ecclesia conciliat confirmat oblatio Tertul. lib. 2. ad Uxorem Reply Indeed will you phrase and modify your administrations upon such a supposition that all men are such as they ought to be and do what they ought to do Then take all the World for Saints and use them accordingly and blot out the doctrine of Reproof excommunication and damnation from your Bibles Is it not most certain that very many married persons are unfit for the Lords Supper and will be when you and we have done our best And is it fit then to compell them to it But the more unexpected the more welcom is your motion of that more Christian course of suppressing of licentious festivities When shall we see such Reformation undertaken Visitation of the Sick FOr as much as the condition c. All which is here desired is already presumed namely that the Minister shall apply himself to the particular condition of the person but this must be done according to the Rule of prudence and justice and not according to his pleasure therefore if the sick person shew himself truly penitent it ought not to be left