repl 1. pag. 41. Ambr de offic lib. 1. cap. 50 Grat dist 93. cap. 21. Ex quo iâ— Ecclesis sicut in imperio Romano crevit avaritia perit iex de sacerdote visia de Prpheta Bas in Asceticis Chry. desacer complaints have been made against abuses of this nature by all sorts ancient and moderne who never denyed the Churches where the true faith was professed to be the true Churches of Christ Cyprian complaines thus Here I am grievously troubled that the Church hath many Pastors who not onely doe not oppose their bodies against the incursions of wolves but also they themselves doe play the parts of wolves whiles they destroy the souls of the simple they themselves serving their bellies gaine and ambition and make merchandise of the Word of God and adulterate it with ungodly opinions The Counsell of Nicâ— makes complaint That many things in the admission of Presbyters and Bishops was done contrary to the Rule Leo That the office of a Pastor and government of the Church was committed to men altogether unworthy Hierom reproacheth the Bishop of Ierusalem that he could as himselfe boasted make in one houre a thousand Clarks and condemneth it in others That Clarkes run to the Bishops suffraganes certaine times of the yeere and bringing some summe of money they are ordained being chosen of none Ambrose sheweth the abuse in his time to be this If a man asked some of them who preferred them to be Priests answers is made by and by that the Archbishop for an hundred shillings ordained me Bishop Nazianzon in Apolog That they which handle holy things with unwashen hands and polluted souls are more in number than they over whom they rule Miseri in â—iotate miseri in splendore And ad Maximum Ad Pastoralis muneris administrationem nihil contulerunt ui 〈◊〉 quod comam quam turpiter alere studuerunt raserunt And in the same place De pecumiis jam in ecclesia bellum geritus When Basil of an Heathen was made a Christian he saith That he did greatly wonder at the dissentions which were in the Church concerning Faith and the contentions of the Governors because every one leaving the doctrine of our Lord Iesus Christ did challenge to himself by his owne authoritie certaine rules and orders Also J perceived dissentions to arise from hence because there was no discipline no knowledge of God or it was perveâ—se if any Chrysostome Neque immeritos solum adlegâ— sed idone 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Toletan Councells complaine that for eighteen yeeres no Synod was held Whence came grosse ignorance and corruption of the Ministers It would be too long to set downe at large the grave sharpe and lamentable complaints that Nicholas de Clemang Petrus de Aliaco See Nichol. Clemang speculum Eccles Petrus de Aliaco reformat Eccle. Bern. in Conv. S. P. ser 1. Heu Heu Domine Deus Ipsi sunt in persecutione tua primi qui videatur in Eccl sia tua primatum genere Id. in Cant. ser 76. Parum est nostris vigilibus quod non servant nisi perdant Gildas See Vsser de primord Eccles Brâ—â— Hâ—oper on the 8 Command pag. 74 79. Whitaker de pont Rom. presat ad Audito res In sch smatis remedium hoc primo invenâ—um est quod ipso morbo magis pericudesum fuisse molti virt sancti prudentes judicarunt Quod quamquam non statim apparuit tamen misera experientia demceps demonstravit Tum enim ambitio irepsit in Ecclesiam Episcopi caeperunt non minus de dignitate suarum sedium quam de Christi grege cogitare c. Gregor Nazianz. orat 2. pag 399. They intrude themselves unto the most holy Ministeries with unwashen hands and minds as they say and before they are worthy to come unto the Sacraments they affect the Sanctuarie it selfe circum sacrasanctam mensam premuntur protenduntur esteeming this order not an example of vertue but a maintenance and helpe of life Bernard and our Gildas have published against the Ecclesiasticall Governours of their times for their ignorance pride luxurie riot drunkennesse persecution of all true godlinesse covetousnesse rapine contentions brawles simonie and what not And since the time of Reformation not the Inconformists only but the godly Bishops and Martyrs themselves have observed bewailed and reproved these abuses Father Latimer in his Sermons generally but in his Sermon of the Plough is plaine and large against the pompe and idlenesse of Bishops who Lord it over but feed not the Flock of Christ muzzle the people in ignorance and profanenesse live riotously hunt after preferment but seek not the winning of souls unto God Bishop Hooper complaines saying It is great pity to see how farre that office of a Bishop is degenerated from the originall in the Scripture it was not so at the beginning when Bishops were at the best as the Epist of Paul to Titus testifieth that willed him to ordaine in every Citie of Creete a Bishop And as sharply and closely he censureth the Bishops of his daies for arrogating to themselves so much witt as to Rule and serve in both States in the Church and in the Civill Policie and to the contrary professeth That one of them is more than any man is able to satisfie and that it is not possible that one should doe both well and that it is a great oversight of the Princes and higher Powers of the earth so to charge them with two burdens when none of them as he saith is able to beare the least of them both The accusations which are brought against both the Ministers and members in the Separatists Congregations are not few nor light nor such as can be wiped away with reproaches All these have borne witnesse of the great disorders and corruptions which have been in the Church of God but they never deemed the societie was to be abandoned because of these great and erroneous blemishes rather they sought the redresse and reformation of what was amisse If some things of man be mixed with that which is of God as humane superioritie with divine Ministerie the pure wheat with some chasse the holy Sacraments with rites savouring of superstition a found Christian is not to cast away what is of God as a nullitie fruitlesse defiled Antichristian Idolatrous because somewhat humane is annexed unto them nor in defence of the good to be charged or condemned as going crosse to that which he taught against the evill Aug. de fid bon oper tom 4.4 Nos vero ad piam doctrinam pertinere arbitramur ut canes in ecclesia propter pacem ecclesiae toleremus Iun. animad in Bell. contr 5. l. 1 ca. 3. l. 1. ca. 3. not 24. Speaking of Popish ordination saith A parte ad totum non procedit argumentatio In ordinatione aliquid nihil facâ—unt ergo nihili faciunt ordinationem Quod Dei quod ecclesiae in ea est permagni facimus quod
to say out of the Nonconformists against our Ministery in respect of their orders and degrees SECTION 6. CAN. Necess of Separation Pag. 37. IF the calling and office of their bishops be as the Nonconformists say it is of the earth false divellish Antichristian c. than it followes that the calling and office of the whole Ministery must necessarily be of the same nature qualities and condition to wit of the earth false divellish and Antichristian c. which is wholly derived from it which receives J say and takes it life and being of it only and no where else For if their Bishops have not a right power in themselves then can they not transferre it to another As the law saith Nemo potest plus juris transferre in ahum Regul juris 79. quam sibi competere dignoscatur No man can give more to another than he hath himselfe If Corah Dathan and Abitam when they usurped the priesthood and government of the Church should by that false power which they assumed have ordained some of the people unto the Priests office no doubt all the Israelites which feared God would have judged their place and standing unlawfull because they which made them had no commission from God so to doe The case of their Ministery is just so ANSWER IF some things of men bee mixed with that which is of God as the holy Sacraments with humane rites and humane pompe and glory with the Ministery that is from above a prudent Christian must separate one from another and not cast away what is of God as a nullitie fruitlesse unprofitable defiled because somewhat humane is annexed to them Accidentall defects or superfluities in or about the Ministery doe not destroy the nature and substance of the Ministery In the office and calling of Bishops two things are to be considered 1 The substance of their office and Ministery whereunto they are separated to wit to preach the Gospell dispense the Sacraments and administer the discipline of Jesus Christ Hieron in epist ad Tit. ca. 1. ad Evag. epist 2. Bilson chr part 2. pag. 318 319. Calv. tract deneces reform eccles Calvin instit l. 4 c. 4. sect 1.2 4 15. Zanch. in 4. praeteptum toâ— 732 733. Forb Irenic l. 2 prop 7 8 9 10. and this is of God 2 The superioritie they take or challenge over their brethren which makes not a difference or nullitie in the substance of their ministery and this is of men All Ministers of the Gospell are stewards of Jesus Christ set apart to doe his worke wherein if any one shall challenge more than of right appertaineth unto him or doe ought out of pride partialitie sinister affection tyrannie or sedition or receiveth such authoritie to himselfe alone as belongeth not to his place and office or is common to many in that he is blameworthy but thereupon his Ministery or ministeriall acts done by him are not made voide and of none effect Thus the Church of England The institution of a Christian man c. of the Sacram. of Orders Ievvel apol def par 2. c. 3. div 1 5 c. 9. div 1. in 1 Tim. 3. in 1 Tim. hom 11 Qu. ex utroque Testamento ca. 100. at least the prime maintainers of Religion against the Papists have taught That there is little or no difference betwixt a Bishop and a Presbyter to which purpose Iewell cites many passages out of the Ancient Fathers as of Ambrose there is one Ordination of a Bishop and a Presbyter Chrys betwixt a Bishop and a Presbyter there is almost no difference Aug. what is a Bishop but the first or chiefe Presbyter And both Conformists and Non-conforâ—â—ists agree in this that ministers rightly qualified with gifts and preaching the doctrine of salvation purely bee the Ministers of Iesus Christ whether ordayned by Bishops or the Eldership Forb Iren. l. 2. c. 11 prop. Carleton de Eccl. c. 11. p 283.284 D. Field of the Church lib. 3. c. 39 T. C. repl 1. p. 82. There being great resemblance between the Popedome and Archbishop I meane having regard to the bare functions without respecting the Doctrine good or bad which they uphold there is yet great difference betweene the persons which execute them P. Lombard l. 4. sen dist 24. Capreol in 4. sent dist 2. qu. 1. Episcopatus non est alius distinctus ordo a sacerdotio Bonavent in 4 sent dist 24. art 2. qu. 3. Th. Aqui. 3. suppl qu. 40. art 5. They that hold Bishops by Divine right greater than Presbyters and that the power of Ordination belongeth unto them doe yet acknowledge Ordination given by the Eldership to be true by the judgement of the Catholike Church And they that maintaine the equalitie of Bishops and Presbyters by the Word of God deny not those Ministers to be of God who teach sound doctrine and feed the flocke of God committed to their charge though they received Ordination from Bishops The learned among the Papists themselves freely confesse that that wherein a Bishop excelleth a Presbyter is not a distinct and higher order or power of order but a kind of dignity or office and employment only Episcopacy is not another order distinct from the Priest-hood saith Capreolus No Prelate hath more concerning Sacramentall power or of order than simple Priests So Armachanus As concerning Sacerdotall order Armach l. 11. Dom. a Soto l. 10. de just jure q. 1. art 2. de 4. dist 24 q. 2 art 3 Darand in 4 sent dist 24 qu 5. Staple relect contr 2 qu. 3 art 3. Bellar. de Cler. l. 1. c 11 s 14. cusan concord l. 2. c. 13. and things that pertaine to order they are equall Thus Bellarmine himselfe Although a Bishop and Presbyter are distinguished yet as concerning Sacrifice they exercise the same ministery and therefore they make one order and not two Cusanus goeth further All Bishops and haply also Presbyters are of equall power in respect of jurisdiction although not of execution which executive exercise is shut up and restrayned by certaine positive Lawes And Iohannes de Parisijs de potost Regal Papal ca. 10. Some say a Presbyter hath the same power in his Parish that a Bishop hath in his Diocesse From which their confession it will evidently follow that Ministers ordained by Presbyters to whom the care and government of the Church belongeth are true Ministers In Alexandria and all Aegypt the Presbyters gave Ordination vvhen a Bishop vvas not present as Augustine Ambrose both confesse Ambr ad Eph. c 4 August Quest Nov vet 4 101 Concil Nicen can 4 Concil Arelatens 2. c. 5. Con Affris can 16 Bellar. de Eccl. l 4 c. 8 s Ex quo Gratian Decr dist 23 c. 8 Theodoret hist lib. 5 c. 23. Socrates hist. lib 4 c. 35 Gr. Johan Major in 4 sent dist 25 qu. 3 inter oper Gerson Paris 1606 p. 681 Greg 1 lib. 12 ep 31. indict 7. Bedal 1 c 27. Gratian. 1 par
to be planted there if hee allow maintenance for them and place such as be worthy they shall be ordained upon his Nomination And the Toletan Councel decreed That as long as the founders of Churches doe live they shall be suffered to have the chiefe and continuall care of the said Churches and shall offer fit Rectors to the Bishop to be ordained And if the Bishop neglecting the founders shall presume to place any others let him know that his admission shall be voide and to his shame but if such as they chuse be prohibited by the Canons as unworthy then let the Bishop take to promote some whom he thinketh more worthy In these particulars the coÌ„sent of the people is too much abridged as in some other particulars they tooke too much upon them or they gave their right away when yet the calling of the Minister or the office whereunto he was called in those cases was not a nullitie Jn many things saith the Councell of Paris which was the complaint of the Nicene Councell long before the old custom is neglected and the decrees of the Canons are broken But the Ministerie of the Word and Sacraments was not made voide thereby The godly learned consonant to the Scriptures have evermore distinguished betwixt an error in admission into an office and a flat nullitie of the office it selfe The Ministers election into his office Neque tamen ubique ea in parte felix fuit Ecclesia alicubi enim haeretici locum docendi adepti sunt alicubi etiam omissa accurata diligentia invocatione electione minus idonei rerum habenis sunt potiti ut Irenaeus ad Victorem scribens testatur Illiric catalog test lib. 2. tit Eccles Gubern Hatina in vita Damâ—f 2. Adeo enim inoleveraâ— hic mos ut jam cuique ambitioso liceret Petri sedem inv dere Id. in vita Benedict 4. Vbi cum ipsis opibus lascivire caepit Ecclesia Dei versis ejus cultoribus a severitate ad lisciviam c. T C. repl 1. pag. 23. Ibid. Leo. Epist. 40. Concil Niâ—â—â— 2. August oper brev collat cap 5. â—i 2 conâ—r epâ—set Parmen ca. 13. Georg. Pâ—nce Anâ—t sol 66. ought to be according to the Rules of the Word before he enter into the Ministerie he should be blamelesse apt to teach sound in Faith and much more is he to approve himself to be such a one in the execution considering that falls in the execution are much more dangerous to the Church than before But defects in the election doe not make the calling it selfe utterly unlawfull If one blame-worthy be elected or tolerated after he is not to be reputed as one that ministers altogether without a calling Therefore the Non-conformists never taught that the Minister is not to be heard or that wee must not hold communion with him in the Ordinances of Worship who is not elected and ordained by the societie where he is to administer though they maintain the consent of the people to be essentiall to the full compleat call of a Minister to that place and people Thus they doe professe in answere to this and such like accusations Where saith T.C. doe they reason thus The Word of God is not preached because the Mnisters are not rightly proved and elected c. Is it all one to say it is not purely preached it is not truly preached c. They nver said that there is no Ministerie in England nor yet doe ever conclude that there is no Word nor Sacraments nor Discipline nor Church Herein they affirme or teach nothing but what the godly learned in all ages have acknowledged Anatolius consecrated of Dioscorus was approved of Leo and Tharasius The Orthodox Fathers professed so the Donatists would returne to the Catholike true and Apostolicall Faith or Doctrine they would not disallow their Bishops that they might understand saith Augustine that Catholikes did not detest Christian consecration but humane errour We use this moderation saith George Prince Anhalt That they who are called forth to Parochiall offices if they promise that they for the time to come will preach the Word purely and administer the Sacraments according to Christs institution we receive them Horumque contenti vocatione See Grat. Decret 2 part ca. 2. Qu. 7. ca. 8.18 19 20. ca. 1. qu. 1. ca. 52. Socrat. hist. l. 1. ca. 9. Art Smal. par 3. art 10. Stay §. 11. p. 133. Par. in Heb. 5.4 Stay §. 4. p. 30. Par. in Rom. 10.14 15. Legitima autem vocatio ecclesiae est quae in quâvis ecclesiâ publica authoritate ordinis causâ ad aedificationem instituta Dan. in 1. Tim 5. pag. 363.364 pag. 343. Stay §. 4. pag. 30. §. 11. pag. 113. For. Iren. l. 2. cap. 11 prop. 13. tit de Haeretic Certe ad agnoscimus de omnibus clericis haereticis quoad jus liciti exercitii quoad alios uâ—ab corum communione abstincant cis non obediant sed non est accipiendum de onmibus haereticis quoad valorem exercitii in Sacramentorum administratione licet iniustae eorum censurae etiaÌ„ ipso iure nullae sint muneris demandati commissione ordinationem manus impositionem non iteremus So Art Smal. Si. Episcopi suo officio recte fungerentur cur am ecclesiae Evangelii gererent c. Pareus is praysed by your self as an interpreter one of a thousand and oft cited by you in this matter as one that condemneth the hearing of them that are unlawfully sent But according to Pareus He is lawfully sent who is called according to the order which is instituted by publique authoritie in every Church for order sake and to edification Danaeus sharply taxeth the manner of calling Ministers which be conceived to be in use in England and is againe and againe alledged by you in this question but he doth admonish withall that we must distinguish betweene a calling maimed and none at all Ex his autem omnibus saith hee apparet quam nulla sit vel non legitima eorum verbi Dei Ministrorum vel ecclesiae Pastorum vocatio qui solius regis vel reginae vel patroni vel episcopi vel Archiepiscopi authoritate diplomate bullis jussu judicio fit vel eligitur Id quod dolendum est adhuc fieri in iis ecclesiis quae tamen purum Dei verbum habent sequuntur veluti in media Anglia Nam Anglos homines alio qui sapientissimos acutissimos pientissimos in istis tamen papisticae idololatriae tyrannidis reliquiis agnoscendis tollendis scientes prudentesque caecutire mirum est Itaque praeclare sentiunt qui omnem illam chartulariam episcopaticam curionum pastorum Ecclesiae creandorum rationem item ex solo episcopi consensu diplomate ministrorum verbi caelestis vocationem approbationem inaugurationem damnant tollendamque ex reformata ad Dei verbum Ecclesiâ censent quòd ordo Dei verbo praescriptus
certainly depend upon the Bishops calling wholly and no manâ— else and if any in the Land stand otherwise hee cannot properly be said to be a Minister of that Church but rather is a schismatike from it Id. p. 57. according to the formall constitution of it c. The most free Parish hath but only a liberty to admit of a Minister before made by the Bishops so that the people give him not any part much lesse the substance of his calling Id. p. 61. but a bare permission only to exercise by vertue of that calling But none may heare or have spirituall communion with such a Ministerie Id. p. 213. whose calling doth essentially depend upon the Bishops calling If the ministerie of the Prelates belong not to any ordinarie assemblies then is the same Antichristian and so consequently is that which is derived from it And so much from their own principles wee have formerly proved Id. p. 213. The Ministerie begotten by the Prelatesis illegitimate and false I say those which take their offices and callings from them are bastardly Ministers The Ordination of Priests and Deacons by the Prelates is unlawfull and Antichristian and the Ministery is false so long as they doe retain that false calling which they tooke first of the Bishops Id. p. 45. they of the Pope and he from the Divell Whosoever he be that dealeth with the holy things of God and worketh upon the consciences of men See CAN Stay §. 6. p. 78.79 by vertue of an Antichristian power office and calling him the people of God ought not to receive or joyne themselves unto But all the Parsons Vicars Parish Priests stipendaries c. that stand over the Church Assemblies in England deale with the holy things of God and worke upon mens consciences by vertue of an Antichristian power office and calling ANSWER Vpon this one prop lyeth all the weight of your building wheâ—em you strangely triumph as if you had stopped the mouth of the Non-conformists for ever that either they must goe backe from what they have writen against the abuses of the ministery or confesse they have said and unsaid as occasions have changed now maintaining that as right which even now they condemned as false and Antichristian And this you presse over and over with great confidence and insolencie But this stay I have plucked out of your hands already and shewed that this exception hath no weight or soundnesse either from truth or Non-conformists principles In answer to this renewed blast of words I will briefly repeate what hath been proved more at large Bilson Christian subject part 2. page 296. Bishops have their Authority to preach and administer the Sacraments not from the Prince but from Christ Himselfe Goe teach all Nations c. onely the Prince giveth him publiked libertie without let oâ— disturbance to doe that which Christ commandeth Id. p. 309. The charge which the Preachers and Bishops of England have over their flocks proceedeth neither from Prince nor Pope ner dependeth on the will or word of any earthly creature Chaloner Credo second par◠§. 2. He which conferres Baptisme and Orders as the principall Donor is Christ the Bishop or Pastor confers them only as his instrument August contr Crescon l. 4. c 6. per ministros dâ—spares Dei miâ—us aequâ—â— est quitâ—n â—â—illorum sed ejus est CAN. Stay §. 3. p. 60. August in Psalme 10. Christ sent him that betrayed him Bilson Christ subject part 2. p. 860. The ghostly worke is Gods the bodily service is the Priests wherein Iudas the thiefe Simon the Sorcerer c. may challenge as James c. First the Ministers of the Gospell derive not their authority or office from the Bishop Patron Presbyterie or people but immediately from Iesus Christ whose servants they are whose words they preach whose Sacraments they administer whose flocke they feed by whom they are protected and to whom they must give account If he be an Antichristian Minister who derives his authoritie from the Classis or Bishop he is Antichristian likewise who derives it from the communitie of the faithfull for neither the one nor the other can justly challenge that authoritie to themselves The Bishop Colledge Ecclesiasticall or Church cannot make a Minister formally or vertually but only as Stewards they put him in office whom Christ the King of Saints and head of the Church hath designed Wherein if Pastors or people shall walke disorderly challenging more than of right belongeth unto them or giving up their right through sloth negligence ignorance or security or not attending unto the direction of the great Shepheard of the flocke shall chuse a man unfit or not well qualified or shall proceed rashly tumultuously upon misguided affection in that weightie businesse though they incurre just blame and reprehension yet that makes not a nullitie of the Ministery or of the Ordinances dispensed upon that Election and Ordination Your selfe telleth us and that from the example of the Scribes and Pharisees That men being lawfully called to the Ministery are to be heard howsoever in some qualifications defective And if disorderly proceeding in election or want of just and fit qualification in the person elected do not make the election voyd how shall the meere want of consent in the people cause a nullity in the ministration If the carelesse or wilfull neglect of administration and execution of his office cause not a nullitie of the choyce Vnreasonablenesse of Separ p. 56. They may acknowledge a further calling than that of the Prelates yet not therein renounce the calling received from them for the Prelates being learned Divines and having approved their gifts and by words and Letter te stimoniall giving liberty to execute the Ministery of the Gospell they doe not therby thrust them into a Ministery but leave them c An Examin of D. â— Cen. p. 33. why shall the lacke of the peoples suffrage which they voluntarily have given away or otherwise lost make the ordinances dispensed by him that is chosen to be of none effect 2. The consent of the people is not required to make a man simply a Minister neither doth Episcopall Ordination make a man the Minister of this or that people Therefore it doth not hinder but a man may bee made Minister by the Bishops according to the constitutions of the Church and a Minister of this or that people by the free choice approbation and consent of the faithfull So in the fourth age of the Church somtimes the people would chuse a Minister whom they thought meete and afterward bring him to the Bishop to be admitted by him as appeareth in the worke of Chrysostome de Sacer of the chusing of Basil when Iohn Chrysostome himselfe gave him the slip Sometimes the Bishop would espie a meete man himselfe and require the consent of the people to chuse â—s it appeareth by Augustine in the election of Eradius to be his successor 3. The
word which doth ordinarily beget men unto God ought to bee heard yet wee cannot conclude on the contrary the word which doth not ordinarily beget is not to bee heard For the word is but a morall cause or instrument of faith and repentance whereby the Spirit worketh not necessarily but at pleasure If therefore the Spirit worke by the word as his instrument it is of God and wee are bound to heare it But if God worke not by it effectually to saving conversion it is of him notwithstanding So this affirmative is true sinne deserâ—eth death but this negative will not follow on the contrary good works deserve life For of justice death is due to the sinner as his wages but eternall life is the gift of grace The Papists argue thus Disgrace done to an Image tendeth to dishonour God and therefore by the Rule of Contraries Honour done to an Image tendeth to the honour of GOD. Their inference and yours turne both upon the same hinges And I might truly say unto you in your owne words Ibid. Have you not here shewed your selfe an acute disputer for to pull downe Bethel you build Babell to condemne the true hearing of Gods Word you commend Idolatry Consider therfore your owne reasons and be not so rash and hastie to disgrace your brethren Your obscure translating of Philosophicall Canons CAN. Stay Sect. 2. pag 54. CAN. Stay Sect. 9. pag. 100. I will passe over as Relata sunt simul natura which you English thus Relations in nature are alike and apply it as strangely Qualis causa tale causatum you translate thus As is the cause so that which is caused of the doing of the thing Idem qua idem semper facit idem which you render As is the same so alwayes followes the same effect whereby you turne principles or Canons at least into riddles and it is hard to say whether your interpretation bee more obscure or misapplication unreasonable to speake in your language as vaine as ever man made For that which is spoken of causes univocall necessary and proper at least that you referre to morall instruments as if the word preached by wicked instruments might not bee effectuall or a man could not heare an ungodly Minister preach the Gospell but he must partake in his sin CAN. Stay Sect. pag. Sect. 3.16.17 Id. Sect. 4. pag. 28. sect 5. p. 40. sect 1. p. 49. sect 4. p. 62.63 67 72 73 74 75. You are large in proving what is not questioned as that God must bee served as he hath appointed That it sufficeth not to intend a good end but the meanes must bee lawfull That men must not bow their knees to an Idol under pretence that they reserve their hearts unto God That wee must bee earnest and zealous against Idolatry That the matter of worship must be grounded on the word Consciences shall never find any sure port to run unto but only God Calf p. 22. and that it must be done in a right and lawfull manner order form or way That the law of God is the rule of conscience That custom must not prescribe against truth That we must not doe evill that good may come thereof with other the like which you know well your Opposites do believe and maintaine But that God is not worshipped in our assemblies as he hath appointed That to heare the word preached in our congregations is pernicious Idolatry that the means therein be unlawfull that the ministerie is Idolatrous or the worship vaine that you prove not either by Scripture or any learned approved Author whatsoever you bring in both your bookes to this purpose besides your own peremptorie actions may be shut up in few words The Authors which you quote are oftimes abused you mangle their words and make them seeme to speak what they never meant or intended CAN Stay sect 3. p. 57. The truths they teach you say speaking of the Ministers of the English Church are from God but the office which gives them power and charge to speake them is from Antichrist and a speciall character or marke as the learned write of the beast Simon on Rev. pag. 120. Acts Mon. edit 5. pag. 588. On Rev. ca. 14.9 Though Priests Deacons for preaching Gods word ministring the sacramets with provision for the poor bee grounded on Gods law yet have these sects no manner of ground thereof L. Cobh Act. and Mon. p. 514 5â—5 Thus said Iohn Chaydon a Martyr of Christ The Bishops licence to preach the Word of God is the true character of the beast that is of Antichrist The like M. Bale and others But no word sounding that way is to be found in M. Simons Since their law of Confirmation was made saith hee the Bishop with the Chrisme doth signe the partie in the forehead with the character of the crosse And since they made their new office or sacerdotall thus they make their cate chumine The child or partie is brought to the Church doores where the Priest maketh a crosse with his thumb on the forehead of the childe and at the font the priest maketh a crosse in the right hand of the child c. Thus this Author but to your purpose not one word M. Bale was so farre from condemning the office of Bishops simply as Antichristian that hee himselfe was Bishop of Osyris in Ireland And how likely it is then that he should absolutely condemne a Bishops licence to preach the Gospell of Jesus Christ in the Churches of Christ as the mark and Character of the beast let any man judge What he might condemn in some respect and consideration in popish bishops as they stand sworne slaves to that Antichrist of Rome that cannot be drawn to the testimonie of Bishops CAN Neces of separ p. 25â— who have cast off the authoritie and renounced the doctrine of Antichrist And the same may bee answered to the testimonie of John Châ—ydon You many times repeate that upon the Nonconformists grounds to returne unto the service in the Church of England is to joyne with Idolaters in Idolatry This no doubt is a vehement accusation if it can be proved if it be rashly surmised then it is as pestilent a slander But ground out of the Nonconformists for such conclusions you have shewed none nor once take notice of that which is alledged to the contrarie which you could not but see if you could have found any exception against it They doe not deny but there is a visible Church of God in England and therefore your saying of them that they doe almost in plaine and flat tearmes say that we have not so much as any outward face and shew of the true Church argueth that you have almost no love in you which upon one word once uttered contrary to the tenour of their booke T.C. repl 1. p. 8. Vnreasonab of separation p. 81. and course of their whole life surmise this of them Thus a chiefe Nonconformist
substance and essence they are true in every true and lawfull complete societie But as the profession of the truth may be found in all fundamentall points though mixed with many errours so for Truth and existence the Ministerie may be lawfull though in many particulars delinquent and deficient In the true Church then there is a true Ministerie But the true Church hath continued there by the blessing of God where the Election of Ministers hath been given away by the people or taken from them In later times the High Priesthood was bought and sold for monie and somtimes it was made annuall that every yeere new Priests were created as those Governours whom Kings change every yeere that as every man would lay out more or lesse monie he should obtaine or lose the Priesthood Which may be seen in the examples of Iason and Menelaus Neverthelesse so long as the Church of the Jewes continued the Church of God the Priesthood continued also In the Primitive Churches when the people had a voice in the choice of their Teachers oftentimes there were factions in the Church the people stood against their Guides and the Guides against their people and the people were divided one against another And sometimes either through sloth or for peace the Pastors left the election of Officers to the people Ruffin lib. 11. c. 10.11 Theod. hist lib. 4. ca. 6. August Epist 110. 225. Socrat. hist lib. 7. ca. 34 35. 39. Concil Antioch cap. 18. Sozom. hist l. 2. ca. 18 19. Naziatrz in Epit. patris Euagr. l. 2. cap. 5.8 Theodor. l. 5. ca. 23. Gratian. dist 63. ca. 11 12. Cypr. l. 3. epist 14. 10. W.B. The Church plea. §. 8. pag. 90. T.C. repl 2. par 1. p. 212. Cypr. l. 2. epist 5. l. 4. Epist 5. l. 3. epist 22. and the like he did for Optatus Satuus Caesernius Numidicus Calv. Inst l 4. c. 4. §. 10. August epist 223. Theod. l. 1. ca. 23. Socrat. hist. l. 2. ca. 19. Sozom. l. 3. c. 20. Socrat. hist. lib. 7. ca. 28. W.B. The Church plea. § 8. pag. 80. Centur. 1. ca. 4. Centur. 6 7. col 591. Centur. 2. c. 7. p. 134. 135. and the people challenged it unto themselves and sometimes againe they took it from their people and challenged it to themselves But in the mids of these broyles he was accounted a true Minister who was elected whether by the Guides or by the people or by the Emperour so he taught the doctrine of Salvation truely And if this be not admitted what shall be done when the people and their Elders be divided in the choice of a fit Officer or Guide If the people prevaile against their Elders he whom they chuse is no Minister to them because not chosen by their Suffrages if the Elders against the people he whom they approve is no Minister because he wants the peoples voice And if the people dissent they must separate and excommunicate one another because to the one part he is no Minister whom the other approve Though Cyprian teach That Ministers should be chosen by the people yet this forme of Election was not in some Churches in Cyprians time who were esteemed true Churches and true Ministers And Cyprian himselfe appointed Aurelius a Reader without advice of the Church by the authoritie of his fellow-Ministers then present Pinianus was ordained of the people Elder of the Church against Augustines minde and will Athanasius made Frumentius Bishop and sent him to the Indies he created Presbyters in other Churches and when he came into Egypt as many as he knew addicted to the Arian haeresie hee put them out of their place and whose Faith he tryed and approved to them he committed the Churches The Church of Cyzicena gave this honor to Atticus that without his consent it could not chuse a Bishop You will not denie but the Ministerie of the Church for the first second and third and fourth hundred yeeres after Christ was true and might be joyned withall For thus writeth a friend of yours and as it is supposed by your aide It is affirmed by the Centuries of Magdenburg that from Christs ascension unto Trajans time which is about an hundred yeers every particular Church was governed by the Bishops Elders and Deacons and describing the state of Christian Churches from Trajans reigne unto Severus that is from the yeere of Christ 100 to 195 thus they write The order of Government was popular for all Churches had equall power of teaching purely the Word of God administration of the Sacraments excommunication of hereticks and wicked persons loosing the penitent the election and ordination of Ministers and the deposition of them againe for just cause And even unto Constantines time The Primitive purity of Church Government was not yet defloured with the dregges of mans invention â—igâ—em in Apoc. 12. pag. 505. 506. Neither had Satan brought in Prelaticall pride into the sheepfold of the Lord but Pastors looked every one to the health of his owne flock And a litle after he citeth Epiphanius â— â— Ibid. pag. 90. Hierome Ambrose Cyrill Hilarie and Gregorie Nazianzene as making for him in the matter of chusing Ministers But most certaine it is within this space of time many things were done in the election and ordination of Ministers which are directly crosse to that which you require as essentiall in his calling See Iun. eccl l. 3. cap. 1. See Sâ—crat l. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 21. Grâ—e 16 17. c. 35. Gr. lat 29. ca. 36. Gr. ca. 30. lat Sozom. l. 6. ca. 18.20 Evagr. p. 2. c. 8. Socr. hist 13. l. 4. c. 10.33 Theo. l. 4. c. 6. Ambr. offic l. 1. Bils Christian Sub. part 2. pag. 28 2. Sozom. l. 7. cap. 8. Socrat. hâ—st l. 5. ca. 8. Iust in Novel Inst 223. cap. 28.9 Concil Toâ—â—â—an ca. 2â— Greg. epist. lâ—b 40. ca. 78. To Constantia the Empresse The Bishop of Salona was ordered neither â— nor any responsarie witting thereof which thing was never attempted under any of the Princes your predecessors c. Yet I obeying their graces Precepts did from my heart remit unto the said Maximus this his presumption as freely as if he had been ordered by my self c. Concil tom 2. Concil Parisien can 8. if at any time you can prove that all things were observed which I doe not beleeve Ambrose himselfe was chosen Bishop when he was onely Catechumenus before he was baptized so that he was constrained to teach that which himselfe had not learned yesterday catechised to day a Bishop The Election in all things not to be approved as consonant to the rule for the Canons were strong against it and Saint Paul seemeth not willing that a novice should be a Bishop but never thought or esteemed to be none at all Of the election of Nectarius see Sozomene and Socrates Iustinian ordained If any man build a Church or house of prayer and would have Clerkes
Christum And a little after to Bellarmine objecting the dangers which may follow in popular elections hee answereth The danger is not so great ubi conjunctus est Clerus actionem dirigit Presbyterium praesertim consilio auctoritate vicinorum Episcoporum Ecclesiarum accedente And after that Et boni vicini quoque accedant ex ordine Not. 27. fratres alti ex communi officio charitatis si quando opus est prout Ambrosium fecisse Nediolanensi Ecclesiae narrat Theodor. hist lib. 4. cap. 7. In the Primitive times one Church might elect and chuse a Pastor for another and the Governours of one Church were chosen by the confent and suffrage of others Ignatius writeth thus to the Philadelphians It behoveth you as the Church of God to chuse a Bishop Of what Church would Ignatius have the Philadelphians to chuse a Bishop Not of their owne The Church of Christ was guided by the common conâ—enâ— and mutuall agreement of both parts as well East as West as a peares in the case of Athanasiu◠〈…〉 Arian Haec quidem Aegyptii ad omnes ad episcopum Romanâ—â— Iâ—l um scripsâ—â—e 〈◊〉 apol 2. Sozom l. 3. c. 7.10 11. Ignat. ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theod. l. 2. ca. 4. Basil Ep. 48. 〈◊〉 Athan. â—1 occiden◠〈…〉 69. 〈◊〉 Gallis 70. Gall. et Jtal. epâ—se 74. occident ep se See 〈◊〉 〈…〉 Or to fend some sufficient legate to heale the breach that was made and quench the flame that was kindled in his Church at Antioch 〈…〉 Govern ca. 7. pa. 76. 〈…〉 13. Cyyrian meant this of such mutuall aâ—d and concord as might profit the Church and well beseem the servants of Christ but allows not that men should run to 〈◊〉 for helpe against the judgement and acts of their Pastors Cypr. 〈◊〉 Epist 3. 4. for in the beginning of his Epistle he greatly commendeth the Bishop which they had already But he exhorteth them to elect a Pastor of the Church at Antioch as the words before going doe make it evident All Bishops saith Cyprian sunt mutuae comcordiae glutine copulatae that if any one hold haeresie the rest should helpe and therefore he moved Stephanus the Pope to write to the Bishops in France that they should depose the Bishop of Arles and to the people that they should chuse another in his roome Theod. l. 5. c. 23. Cypr. l. 4. epist. 8. See Iun. Eccles l 3. c. 1 Amb epist 82. See what Socrates reporteth of the election of Chrysost Socr. hist l. 6. ca. 2. Theod. hist l. 4. c. 6 See Theod. bust l. 5. c. 8. Sozom. l. 7. c. 8. Socr. l. 6. c. 2. Iun. eccles l. 3. c. 1. Erat sanetum talis politia in Ecclesia sicut membrorum in uno corpore ubi omnia uni compatiuntur prespuiunt medentur Illitici catal test lib. 2. p. 109. Theodoret testifieth In the ordination of a Bishop All the Bishops of a Province ought to be called together Cornelius Bishop of Rome was confirmed of the Bishops of Africk Gregorius Presbyter in the life of Nazianzene affirmeth of the Bishops of Macedonia and Egypt that they contradicted the election of Nazianzene because he was made Bishop before they came Ambrose writeth That his election was confirmed of all the Bishops of the East and West and Theodoret That Valentinian the Emperor confirmed it also Election therefore was not ever made by the particular congregation where the Pastor or Teacher was to administer but other Churches and specially the Guides by common consent were called to assist the Church in that weighty businesse And this the Non-conformists judge not only lawfull but meet expedient necessary in some cases And therefore in many particulars they except against the proposition as none of theirs and against your confident assertion that you were sure the propositions were both theirs when as it is neither found in them nor in any writer ancient or moderne nor in the holy Scriptures And when you peruse the testimonies alledged Rhemists annot in Ioh. 10. §. 1. be judge your selfe whether you did not grossely mistake or abuse your Reader when you cite the Rhemists as if they pleaded for the Parochial election of a Pastour as onely lawfull As for the Assumption It is true the Ministers of the Church of England are not ordained by the particular Congregations where they administer nor is it necessarie to a true and entire calling that it should be so That they be not approved of the particular society is false in many of them for they are chosen by their consent to be their Ministers though not absolutely to the Ministerie it selfe And in case they be not so called it is a maime and defect Parker de polit Eccl l. 1. c. 14. Deducere quidem conantur illi ex majoribus nostris minores quasdam sed absurdas inconsequentes Neque enim si necessaria disciplina sit in verbo Dei tradita idcirco separatio sicubi corrumpatur sacienda sâ—atim est nulla connexionis vi hoc porisina sequitur which should be reformed whether it be through the ignorance of the people or the Lawes of the Kingdome or the pride and covetousnesse of them that thrust themselves into that calling or neglect of Patrons or what else soever But this maime doth not make a nullitie of their calling nor the Word and Sacraments dispensed by them to be ineffectuall For in every Church where the doctrine of salvation is soundly and intirely preached and professed the calling of the Ministerie is for substance true and lawfull The Nonconformists therefore in reproving the abuses of the Ministerie and yet holding communion with the Church of England in the ordinances of worship See Calvin Instit l. 4. c. 1. §. 12 13 14 15 c. doe walke according to their own Principles the doctrine and practice of the Churches of God in all ages and direction of the holy Scritures The Non-conformists reprove the tumults of the people in election without the direction of the Presbyters Whitak de pont Rom. contr 4. qu. 1. c. 2 p. 16. Iâ—a v. admissa est populi multitudo ut vitaretur omnis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ne ecclesia esset 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ut Act. 19.32 Bilson perpet Gov. Epist to the Read Right Apostolick Bishops were such as were left or sent by the Apostles to be Pastors of the Church and Governors of the Presbyteries in every city that beleeved so long as they ruled well and in their stead as their successors to receive charge of ordaining others for the worke of the Ministerie and guiding the Keyes with the advice and consent of such as laboured with them in the Word and Doctrine Id. ca. 4. Without proofe the Church must not beleeve nor regard thy speech and proofe thou hast none One and the same person cannot be both Accusant and Deponent and in
adversus Canonicos nostros Episcopos congregationem faciunt Howsoever therefore the Non-conformists dissent from others touching the Office and calling of Bishops as it is esteemed a degree of ministery above Pastors and Ministers of the whole Diocesse who leave the care of Preaching to particular flockes unto others and challenge that as peculiar to themselves which is common to others or properly belongeth to many yet they never denyed the word Preached by them that professe the intire faith and the Sacraments administred by them to be the true effectuall Ordinances of Iesus Christ And most that approve the calling of Bishops deny not that there may be a Presbytery but that a Presbytery is so fit for a Monarchy being of opinion that the forme of government is left to the discretion of every Church And both sides professe that there is not any difference betwixt them which may either deprive them of salvation by the death of CHRIST or barre them from living brotherly and Christianly as members of one and the same Church It is a rule you say That no man can give more to another than hee hath himselfe But this rule of Law is unskilfully applyed or else while you dispute against one false ministery you set up another or destroy the ministery altogether For the community of the faithfull have not power to preach the Word or administer the Sacraments and hee that derives his authority from them which they have not to give is no true Minister If they be false Ministers who derive their authority from them that have it not then they that derive it from the Church as the Primitive and immediate subject must goe in that number For the Church hath not that authority and she cannot give what shee hath not Bellar. de Sacram. I. 1. ca. 26. Hussilae ordinationes sacerdetum a Romano pontifice petere consueverant Hier. in Dialog advers Luciferian Luciferiani admittebant baptisma collatum ab hereticis sed non ordinationem Bel. ubi supra Iohan 12. a Leone 8. antipapa schismatico ordinatos dicere compulit pater meus nihil habuit sibi nihil mihi dedit Nic. 1. Ep. 1. Si execrabilis utique non and bilis sinon audibilis inefficax Euseb hist. l. 7. c. 2 3 4 8 Hâ—rm Conf. conf Behem art 12. de Bapt. Grat. par 2 c 1. q. 1 c. 30.31 32 33 c 40 46 47. Bel. de facr l. 1 c 26 de Eccl. l. 3. c 9. §. Resp igitur Iun. animadv Contr. 4 l 3 c 9. not 1.1 Greg. Naz. orat 40 Sint duo annuli alter aureus alter serreus Cal. Instit l. 4. c. 15 s 16. Antidot concil Trid. ad can 12. The Classis or Presbytery you will say hath no authority to ordaine a Minister which is to administer in another congregation and hee that derives his authoritie from them that have it not to give is no true Minister If the people and guides of the Church both consent they have no authoritie to call or consecrate an unlearned covetous profane hereticall Minister and he that derives authority from them that have it not to give is no Minister and that which is done by him is of no validity his prayers are not heard the Sacraments administred by him are not seale of the covenants or internall communion with Christ or his faithfull people A false Church or ministery hath no power to call and ordaine a Minister or to give him power to preach the pardon of sinnes or dispense the seales of grace and the authority granted by them that have it not is a meere blanke These and such like are the proper consequences of this rule misapplyed All which no fort of Christians ever admitted as sound and true The Papists are very forward to challenge the reformed Churches as no true Churches because they have no true Ministers but such as were ordained by Heretickes or are fallen into heresie And yet when they have spent their breath they dare not deny but baptisme administred by Heretickes who hold intyre the forme of Baptisme is true and so the Lords Supper and ordination likewise For the impiety of the Minister cannot pollute the purity of divine mysteries neither shall they be ineffectuall to the children of God although dispensed by Iudas the Traytor Heretickes have not saith Bellarmine the remission of sinnes formally but they have it ministerially as a servant who hath not one farthing of his owne may carry many thousands of his Masters to some other man In things naturall and artificiall the effect is not like to the instrument but to the principall cause as heate is the instrument of fire though it have not the substantiall forme of fire and the baptisme which is administred and the word which is preached of wicked men is not the baptism or word of wicked men but of Christ Anatolius was consecrated of Dioscorus Felix of the Arians See Gratian decret cap. 1. qu. 1. cap. 32.33 34 35 36. 37 47. Every Minister of the Gospell derives his authority gifts and office immediately from Iesus Christ the Church people patron Presbytery or Bishop are only Stewards to set him in Office whom the Lord hath designed Aug. Consess art 8. Gratian. dist 19. can 8. Cusan concord Cathol lib. 1. cap. 5. Ex quo nunc apparet ad salutem membrorum Ecclesiae fictos in exercitu existentes effectualiter ministrare Bilson Christian sub j. part 3. p. 102. AARON was called to that office not by Moses but by God Himselfe though hee vvere annointed by Moses hands Heb. 5. Cath. Cons p. 130. Yates model of Divinity page 257. Mason Success of Bishops published by authority aâ— 1614. wherein if any one or all of them shall challenge more than of right appertaineth to them or doe ought out of partiality seditiously tyrannically or disorderly in so doing they deserve blame but that which is done is not in every respect voyd and of none effect as it hath beene shewed at large The power of ministration is received from Christ and not derived from men either formally or vertually for they have it not to give but the designation of the person is by mâ—n ministerially or instrumentally Can. Neces of Separat Pag. 38. The Conformists keepe much better to their grounds than the other doe For they professe downe right that their ministery is from the Church of Rome so that if the Popish Bishops Priests and Deacons be good theirs bee good also they being from them Now no doubt these men doe well perceive that their ministery cannot possibly be justified unlesse it bee by this way of dispute In this respect their judgment and practice is one and so farre they are to bee commended and I verily thinke that if they were sure that the ministery brought into the Land by the Prelates from Rome is false and Antichristian as the Nonconformists affirme it to be that many of them would not hereafter ever have
Arian infection both in the reignes of Constantius and Julian the Apostata Athanas Graecolar tom 1. pag. 309. edit Comelit Theodor. hist l. 4. c. 3. Pelagius a Britaine by birth troubled the Churches with his pestilent Doctrine denying the grace of God attributing power and libertie to man to live without sinne and keepe the Commandements if he would This Heresie arose about the yeare 405. or 406. and the Author thereof drew his first breath in Britaine Prudent 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Trim. 13. speaking of Cyprian saith Gallos fovet imbuit Britannos praesidet Hisperiae Christum serit ultimis Hiberis Vsser de prim Eccles Britan. ca. 16. pag. 787. but he sowed not this hereticall doctrine in Britaine And though it must be confessed That these Churches were not altogether free from that infection yet at first it was opposed and after it was banished by the blessing of God About the yeare 420. flourished Fastidius of whom Gennedius in his catalogue of Ecclesiasticall Writers saith Fastidius Bishop of the Britaines wrote to Fatalis one booke of Christian life and another of keeping Widdow-hood in sound doctrine and according to the truth of God And John Trithemius Fastidius Bishop of the Britaines was a man learned in the holy Scriptures and an excellent Preacher of the word of God famous in life and conversation in speech and wit notable Prosper contra collater cap. 41. Vsser de prim pag. 319 320 323 324. He wrote some devout little works c. And by the vigilancy and care of Lopis and Germanus Antisiodorensis the Britaines were delivered from the contagion which had begun to infect the Churches After this the face of things was miserable in that Kingdome by reason of the invasion of the g Repellūt nos barbari ad mare repellit mare ad barbaros Inter haec duo genera funerū aut jugulamur autmergimur Bed hist eccl l. 1. cap. 14. Bilson The true difference betweene Christians Par. 1. pa. 56. That this Land was infected with Arianisme Pelagianisme as many other places then were I find it reported in the story of Beda Eccl. his gent. Angl. l. 1. c. 8. lib. 1. cap. 17. And the Bishops of France our neighbours upon request made unto them by the Britaines sent Germanus and Lupus two French Bishops chosen in a Synod by the generall liking to convert this realm from Pelagius errour which also they did with great celeritie barbarous enemy the terrible famine the direfull contagion of the Pelagian and Arian heresies and the loosenesse negligence drunkennesse contentions and other vices of the Clergie The Christian Religion thus corrupted was restored againe by the second comming of Germannus but after that grievously oppressed by the comming in of the Anglo-Saxons who could not yet so extinguish the truth of God but it did revive spread and grow though sometimes more pure sometimes more corrupt and sometimes with greater sometimes with lesse freedome But to come to the last reformation which was made of Religion in this Land and it was not the conversion of England from infidelitie to the profession of the Gospell but the restoring of it from a corrupt state or profession to a more pure from Christianitie polluted to Christianitie unpolluted Christians they were who inhabited this Land baptized into the true faith of Jesus Christ but Christians defiled with manifold superstitions led aside into manifold errors which errors and superstitions removed they become sound and true Christians indeed The true h Chaloner Credo S 2. part sect 2 It will soone appeare that the Ch◠of Rome for a thousand yeares after our Saviour professed no other faith nor published any other beliefe in points fundamentall either negative or affirmative than we doe c. After a thousand and some few yeares more were expired Transubstantiation and Adoration of the Host with other dregs of Antichrist being established though we cannot say that the Church of Rome was from thence forth absolutely our Church yet we may boldly say that our church was from that time untill Luther both within the Romane Church and without it Church lay hid in Popery as a little oare in a great lump of drosse not refined not purified not coyned but true gold for substance yea that very same for substance which being purified and stamped is currant coyne When the invocation of Saints worshipping of Images the Latine Service and fabulous Legends the sacrifice of the Masse and adoration of the Sacrament with such like abhominations were taken away and in the roome thereof the true worship of one true God in the mediation of Jesus Christ and the right administration of the Sacraments and the reading of the holy Scriptures in a knowne tongue established when the omnipotency of the Pope is abandoned with all corrupt superstitions which did undermine the foundation it selfe and in stead thereof the intire faith of the Lord Jesus in all points necessary to salvation taught professed and received then is the Church refined and separated from that drosse To bring Infidells from the state of infidelitie to the faith it is necessary that instruction goe before either by reading exhortation preaching or report of Christian faith for faith commeth by hearing But where men professe Christianitie abuses may be reformed by the Edict of the Magigrate without such particular instruction going before as in the former case is requisite Many times * Jo. 2.19 heresie departeth from the Church or Heretickes goe out from the Church and sometimes the Church is compelled to goe out from heresie the heresie still remaining * Revel 18.4 Come out of her my people saith the Lord the godly then departing from Babylon according to Gods commandement gathering themselves into Christian societies the religious Magistrate by his Edict or Proclamation going before them are the true churches of Christ The i Raynold orat epist ad fratrem Non semper heresis exit ab ecclesia aliquando manet heresis ecclesia exire cogitur Papacy was not the church but the church lay hid in the Papacy untill the time of separation which being made according to Gods commandement by the authoritie of the Lords Vicegerent the church which was before k August epist 48. ad Vincent Donatist Ecclesia est quae aliquando obscuratur tanquam obnubilatur multitudine scandalorum obscured doth now shine forth Thus our Divines doe soundly and truely answer to the Papists demanding where our Church was before Luther That it was where now it is but unrefined unstamped that it lay l Beza epist 1. ad Duditium et si Papatun non sit Ecclesia voluit Deus in Papatu servare ecclesiam hid among them for the time as some fit stones for the building under a great heap of rubbish and that we have not erected a new Church but repaired and restored a ruinous m See Dr. Feild of the Church lib. 3. c.
13.2 15.2 Col. 4.11 Iames 5.14 Epiphan haeres 27. Ignat. ad Tralleus Sozom. li. 4. ca. 14. Euseb hist lib. 6. cap. 10 11. Gr. ca. 9. lat Gratian. Decret part 2. cap 7. qu. 1. can 12. And it is to be remembred that in Rome Corinth Ephesus Philippi Colosse Thessalonica and such other Cities inhabited by Christians there were more Pastours than one which did in common governe all the Churches within that Citie and there was not any one Pastour who by himselfe governed a certaine part of the Citie peculiarly assigned to his charge Thus also the Ancients write that Peter and Paul were the first Bishops and Apostles at Rome Paul had Linus and Timothy Peter Clemens and Anacletus Liberius and Felix both governed the Apostolicall Seat Valerius and Augustine Narcissus and Alexander in the Church of Hippo. It is apparent the Apostles ordained many Overseers in one societie and it is not repugnant either to Scripture or reason to thinke there might be many Pastours of one flocke And the flocke might be one under the joynt care of many Shepheards Bilson perpet Gover ca. 10. pa. 155. Every church with them had many Prophets Pastours and Teachers the number and neede of the people and time so requiring T. C. repl l. pa. 34. though they did not ordinarily meete together in one place For to assemble together in one place is meerely accidentall to the unitie of a societie Certaine it is in times of persecution they cannot so meete and it is most probable in the Apostles times many Churches were too populous in that manner to assemble together Those that know the state of France in time of persecution doe well understand that every Church almost was gathered of Townes whereof some were six miles some seven some more from the place of meeting and keeping their Congregations And therefore could not meete so often nor know one another so well as we by the grace of God may doe Fourthly No one Pastour or Teacher hath the power of the censures belonging unto him and whether the power of dispensing the Seales belong to every Minister of the Gospell I leave it to your consideration for I know not what you will resolve but the actuall dispensation of the Seales may be forborne by some to whom the right of dispencing doth appertaine specially when there be others at hand to doe that office The Apostles had power to baptize 1 Cor. 1.14 15 16. Can. Neces of Separat pag. 236. but we may well thinke they did not ordinarily baptize themselves It is possible you say a man may be a true Ecclesiasticall Officer and yet never doe the services thereof Fifthly The Minister of the Gospell is not made absolutely a Minister by the choice or election of this or that people but onely their Minister for the time of his abode and continuance with them Lay these things together and then your exceptions against the office of Lecturers will vanish For if they have not the chiefe charge or cure of soules they be not sole Pastours or Teachers of the flocke but joyned in care or charge with others as Helpers or Assistants or chosen by the people to supply the want of such as should but doe not feed the flocke If they dispence not the Seales neither is that necessary in respect of their standing for right and power from Christ they have to dispence them but in the execution of that power they may be hindred or forbeare it for a time If they leave their place being lawfully called to another flocke it may be with consent of the societie and of the Church and what then doth make it unlawfull or if the charge should be unlawfull it doth not make the Ministery strange or new which is the thing in question SECT II. THat Ministery which is instituted and set up besides those which God hath appointed in his Word Neces of Separat pag. 51 52. is unlawfull and false But the Ministery of Lecturers in England is instituted and set beside these which God hath appointed in his Word Therefore that Ministery is unlawfull and false The proposition is plaine and undeniable and we have their owne words to confirme it For thus they say All the Ministery is by the Word of God and not left to the will of man to devise at their pleasure as appeareth by that which is noted of John where the Pharisees comming to him after that he had denied to be either Christ or Elias or another Prophet conclude if he be neither Christ nor Elias nor of the Prophets why baptizest thou Which had been no good argument if John might have been of other function than of those which were ordinary in the Church T. C. repl 1. pa. 62 63. and instituted of God c. Againe to devise another Ministery than that which God hath appointed is condemned by the second Commandement The Assumption is thus proved First if their Lecturers have taken ordination from the Bishops and exercise by that power onely then is their office false by the reasons before laid downe Secondly If it be objected that they never received the Prelates orders or have repented thereof I answer This proves not that they are therefore true Ministers For as Jehu though he did well to suppresse Ahabs idolatrie yet in that he followed the wayes of Jeroboam he himselfe continued still a grosse Idolater Even so howsoever some may privately report that they stand Ministers by no relation to the Bishops yet are they notwithstanding unlawfull Ministers seeing they were never elected chosen ordained according to Gods Word If any reply that they have their calling of the people I answer the thing is surely otherwise as shall be manifested presently But if this were granted yet I deny that any Church under heaven hath power from Christ to ordaine such a kinde of Ministery and therefore if any people should doe it seeing it is against the Scripture it must needs follow that it is an unlawfull Ministery and so consequently not to be communicated with ANSVVER YOu are strangely taken with this note for you have brought nothing but a bare repetition of what you have said over and over If you speake of the substantiall and essentiall parts of the Ministery it is freely granted that the true Ministery is by the word of God and heavenly But if you extend it to every circumstantiall order whereby in this or that Societie the Minister is to execute the function he hath received of God it is not approved But of this you need not to have made so many words To your assumption answer hath been returned already First That the Ministers of the Gospell receive their office and authoritie neither from the Bishop Patron people or Colledge Ecclesiasticall but from Christ immediately whose servants they are in whose name they minister whose flocke they attend and who hath assigned them their worke And if you receive your Ministery from the people as
their servant from whom you derive your office and authoritie and from whom you receive your Commission your Ministery in that respect is no lesse false and antichristian than theirs that derive it from the Bishops Secondly If Lecturers have received ordination from the Bishops and be called and chosen by the people their calling is just and lawfull according to the rules of Scripture and their Ministery heavenly and from above if they preach the intire faith and feed the flocke of God For they preach the pure doctrine of salvation not by authoritie from men but by commission from the chiefe Shepheard and Bishop of our soules their calling may be justified by the Word and warrant of truth which shall stand for ever the more hainous and fearefull is your sinne in matching the Ministery of such men to the idolatry of Jehu Thirdly You are bold to affirme That no Church under Heaven hath power from Christ to ordaine such a kinde of Ministery c. And it is true the Church hath no power to ordaine any Ministery for Christ is the Author and institutour of the Ministery for his Church But your meaning is That this kinde of Ministery is against the Scripture not ordained and then if we call for your proofe we have nothing here but I deny it Can. Neces of Separat pag. 217. You take up Mr Br. how well it becomes you let the Reader judge as a bold Sophister because he makes flat deniall of expressed truthes As thus I say it is false I deny it c. As if the weight of an argument were sufficiently removed by empty denials But when you should make proofe of what you affirme it sufficeth you to say I deny or this proves it not or I have proved from their writings when you have falfified them onely And if an empty deniall be not sufficient answer to an empty affirmation it is very strange Bilson Christ subject par 1. p. 41. I may justly say to you as Dr Bilson to the Papist whom he answered If great vaunts were sound proofes the victory were yours you have words and cracks at will they cost you nothing SECT III. THat it is so I prove it thus Neces of Separat pag. 53. That Ministery is unlawfull which none may lawfully give But none may lawfully bestow the Ministery of a Lecturer Therefore that Ministery is unlawlawfull The Assumption for shame cannot be denied if the nature of it be considered For as we but even now said their Lecturers take no charge of a flocke upon them they make covenant weâ—h the people but for a certaine time the peculiar worke of a Minister is not by the people laid upon them weither expected of them If any object that they preach the Word To this Dr Ames gives an answer fully that the preaching of the Gospell is not a worke peculiar to a Minister for such as are private men and out of office may and ought to preach the Word as occasion is offered and not onely privately but saith he in the publique Congregation c. ANSVVER VVE have here the same thing over againe and when all is said it is but this I deny it or I say it The assumption cannot for shame be denied The proposition rightly understood is true and sound but it may carry divers constructions As first the meaning may be That Ministery is for substance unlawfull which none may lawfully give to such or such persons scil to such as be unfit or prophane And in this sense the proposition is not sound For the Ministery is unlawfully committed to an ungodly man an hypocrite but the Ministery it selfe is heavenly and from above Or the sense may be That Ministery is unlawfull which men may not lawfully give virtually or formally And then it is weake For Pastours and Teachers are the gifts of Christ unto his Church from whom they receive their office and not from men Or it may beare this sense That Ministery is unlawfull which none may lawfully give in such forme and manner as it is executed And then it is lyable to exception For of right the power of administration of the Seales and Censures of the Church belong to the Pastours Teachers and Governours of the Church when in the execution of this office they may be hindred It is lawfull to be an assistant or helper to a Pastour for a time when it is not lawfull to give the office of Ministery to a man for a time onely and then to expire To the assumption The Lecturers of whom we speak have derived their office from the Lord Jesus Christ by the Ministery of his Church as instruments their entrance into it lawfull the service and worke it selfe holy the manner of performing it warrantable and the authoritie they have received the same which Christ hath communicated to the Ministers of the Gospell To publish the truth by way of instruction or exhortation is not peculiar to the Ministers of the Gospell but by authoritie 〈…〉 â—â—culiar to the Minister For the Scripture joyneth together the preaching of the Word and dispensation of the Seales as both belonging to the Officers Math. 28.19 1 Cor. 1. who have received commission from Jesus Christ And if private persons may preach the Word in this sense we see no reason why they may not administer the Sacraments likewise and so the Governours of the Church shall have power to doe nothing which every private member of the societie may not doe as well as they But Lecturers preach the Gospell by authoritie and as men set in office by the Lord of the harvest And this may suffice to shew the vanitie of such exceptions as are taken against our Church Ministery and worship to prove it to be no true Church worship and Ministery and how untruly and unjustly the Nonconformists are charged to lay the grounds of that 〈◊〉 and affected Separation which some have run into To examine what argument is returned to Dr Ames Mr Daw Mr Br is needlesse for nothing of weight is said against them but the same things vainly repeated with insolent scoffes and reproaches as if by evill speaking you hoped to get the victory It is to be observed generally you say Can. Neces of Separat pag. 211. that those which stand for bad causes doe after this sort still reproach the Adversaries Thus doe the Papists the Protestants so the Protestants the Puritanes and so they us as here and in other writings usually Now I would entreat you to review your two books and speake in good earnest whether in scoffing reproaching falsifications you doe not ordinarily exceed all men that ever you met withall Consider seriously and then let conscience be Judge whether it be the note of a good or evill cause c. FINIS A Table of some principall Points handled in this Treatise In the first Part. Concerning a false Ministerie and communicating therein p. 3 4. Nonconformists lay not the grounds
disliked by godly and learned men so the generall given for direction in such cases be observed 3 We hold it unlawfull outwardly and but in appearance to joyne with Idolaters in their Idolatry Many words in this matter might well bee spared But wee desire to see your commandement why for every particular act that in a large sense is Idolatrous adjoyned to the true worship of God Calfeb against Mar. art 10. p. 185 186. we should forbeare our presence at the worship it selfe or be said to communicate in the sinne there committed For then no man might present himselfe with good conscience at any publike worship of GOD wherein any thing is done amisse for matter or manner which is in effect to say hee cannot bee present at any at all 4 To communicate in the ordinances of God with the Ministers of the Church of England is not to like approve or reverence the institutions of men in the exercises of religion nor to communicate with the Teacher in his sin nor in ought else that is amisse For the worship is of God both for matter and manner And put case the Minister bee disorderly chosen enter not as he ought be Symoniacall covetous froward corrupt idle scandalous doe the people partake in his sin in that they make use of his Ministery No Scripture teacheth any such thing no reason doth confirm it noe approved authors ever said it That which you alledge for proofe falleth utterly short It appertaineth to the vertue of truth Dav. determ 7. p. 40. that as a man sheweth himselfe by externall signes so he is indeed to be esteemed And such as frequent or repair unto unlawfull assemblies for the publike worship of God by their being there are to be reputed of the same religion or else dissemblers as it were to have no care of religion knowing God Dovvay annot in 4. King 5.19 p. 778. but not glorifying him as God But herein you have misrelated the Doway translators for their words are But in a Christian countrey where all beare the name of Christians especially where men are at controversie about the true Christian Religion all that frequent or repaire unto the same assemblies for publike service of God are to be reputed of the same religion or else dissemblers Bodily presence at false worship by which they shew a liking unto it is unlawfull To eate of meates sacrificed unto Idols in the Idoll Temple Your condemning the worship of God performed in our assemblies as pernicious idolatry vvherein is it a lesser sinne han the Popes prohibition of publike prayer and restraint of the Word and Sacraments throughout the Realm you can neither shevv us warrant for it an the Scriptures nor example of it in the Church of God You that so teach and censure stand guiltie of great impietie and they that hearken unto your persvvasions are partakers of your iniquity in some sort of the vvrong imaginations of Christians Aug. in Tract â—o 19. saith Quae omnia idola cordis sunt T. Caepl 1. art 3. pag. 4. is to communicate with Idolaters These things are evident and freely granted But the Assemblie met to call upon God in the mediation of Jesus Christ alone to heare the doctrine of salvation soundly and purely preached to receive the Sacrament rightly administred is not a false idolatrous assemblie they that repaire unto it be not Idolatrous â—â—false worshippers If you esteem of them as they shew themselves by out ward signes you must esteem them to be of the true religion and the true worshippers of God according to his will The ministerie in that assembly to be true sound and faithfull and of God of substance In this lieth the point of the controversie which you are contented to passe by in silence without any proofe at all But if any humane frailtie or infirmitie cleave to the ministerie or congregation in respect of doctrine manners lawes government or order which concernes not the life and soul but only the safety of the Church or wellfare of Religion In these a Christian doth not partake by his presence at the ordinances as the Scripture reason and the approved practice of the Saints in all ages of the Church do plentifully witnesse This is the judgement and practice of the Nonconformists and therefore they professe they praise God for this reformation so farre forth as it is agreeable to the Word of God they are glad the Word of God is preached that the Sacraments are administred that which is wanting they desire to be added that which is overmuch cut off But that a Christian must separate from the Word and Sacrament by reason of some superfluities or defects is no responsive conclusion that can be gathered soundly from their writings CAN Stay Sect. 5. pag. 66. In preaching of the truths of the Gospell by a false Minister an Idolatrous act is performed For Divine worship is not to be determined by a particular thing howbeit in it selfe good but as the essentiall parts belonging thereto whether they are persons or things are kept and observed The Church of Rome in Baptisme useth water and in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper gives bread and wine otherwhile too doth this cleare their administrations of Idolatry I think all men doe thinke that Vzziah committed an Idolatrous act 2 Chron. 26.16 when he invaded the Priests office But what made it so tooke he unlawfull incense no. Vsed he strange fire no. Offered hee prohibited Sacrifice or upon a wrong Altar No Where then lay the fault the Scripture telleth us Verse 18. it pertained not to him to burne incense unto the Lord but to the sons of Aaron To apply this if his act were Idolatrous because he wanted a calling howbeit observed many truths of the law By the same reason the Church acts of Artichristian Ministers are Idolatrous yea and as for the truths which they preach this cleares their acts no more from Idolatry than Vzziahs true Incense and the Altar quitted him from transgression ANSWER Your great words are of small force CAN. Stag. §. 3. p. 56. for should I speake my conscience it is your phrase They are words without weight of reason For still you presuppose the Ministerie of the Church of England to bee false and idolatrous which is to beg not to conclude the question But that being presupposed let us see how you goe forward In preaching the truth of the Gospell by a false Minister an Idolatrous act is performed you say But doth the Scripture say so Do you read it in the Law or in the Prophets in the Apostles or in the Evangelists The Scribes and Pharisees were false Ministers but it was not an Idolatrous worke in them to expound the Law of Moses or dispence other Church ordinances at that time commanded The popish Priests and Bishops are false Prophets but the simple administration of Baptisme by them is not an idolatrous act The Minister that is prophane and
hateth to be reformed is a false Minister and hath nothing to doe to take the covenant of God into his mouth but the Word preached by a treacherous Judas proud Diotrephes covetous Demas or one that envieth the prosperitie of Saints and peace of Ierusalem is not an Idolatrous act If it be Idolatrous in him that performeth it yet it doth not follow that it is idolatrous in them that joyne in the ordinance Let it bee idolatrous in the priests who despise knowledge and live prophanely put case Elies sons to offer sacrifice it is idolatrous likewise for the people to appeare before God in his holy Temple That Vzziah committed a grievous offence when he invaded the Priests office all men thinke In what respect all men conceive it to be an idolatrous act I cannot say but all false Ministers do not usurpe the Priests office as Vzziah nor all things done by false Prophets Ex. 30.7 8. Psal 141.2 Apoc. 8 3. Moller in Ps 141.2 Heris ibid. Deod Bibâ— Ital. annot in Psa 141.2 Apoc. 8.3 Oriin Ios hom 17. tom 1. Est in coelis all re Paschal Rhadbert in Lam. Ier. l. 2. Biblioth pat tom 9. paâ—t 1. Christus altare â—â—edi uâ— esse hostia sacrifiâ—ium pont fex sacerdos Ambr. Enar. in Ps 118. Greg. Magan Psa 7 paenit Altare Domini Christus An. Ex of Dâ—â— censure art 15 p. 19. to be matched with Vzziahs offering incense For the offering of Incense was typicall and might be a shadow of Christs intercession and so the act of Vzziah might be Idolatrous and in that particular directly crosse to the institution of God But many Church actions typifie no such thing Vzziah had no calling to offer incense but some false Ministers may have some calling to administer the things of God though they be not approved of God Vzziah could not offer incense in any respect by authoritie from God but a false Minister in one respect may be called of God in some other to doe an act ministeriall that is by authoritie from God hee may doe some acts for substance lawfull and effectuall though the Minister himselfe be not approved Thus the Nonconformists upon whose grounds you pretend to build your conclusions let it be as the censure reporteth that his words are of a Minister which cannot preach Doth he doubt whether he be in any respect a a Minister or no because he saith if I may so call him Indeed this manner of speaking declareth that he judgeth him that cannot preach a man unworthy to bee a Minister but he doth not deny him altogether But in your esteeme all Ministers not called and ordained of that particular Church whereunto they doe administer and performing their authoritie by vertue and authoritie derived from them are false Ministers because all other administer by power usurped and Antichristian which is with one breath to blast all the worship and service which hath beene done unto God in the congregations of his Saints for this fourteene or fifteene hundred yeares or more CAN. Stay Sec. 5. pag. 76. It is very true said of one Lavater In Iosh 22 hom 63. we ought not to conclude of an action that it is good because it hath in it something which in it selfe is so and this is true as in things divine Omne totum suis partibus ordinatur mensuratur determinatur so in humane too For it is a knowne tenent of Philosophers The whole is composed measured and determined of all the parts ANSWER It is true an action is not good Aqu. 1.2 qu. 8. art 3. Cameron pralâ—ct Tom. 2. p. 49. Amb Catharin in the Councell of Trent l. 2. p. 224. CAN. Stay Sect. 6 page 85. Rutgers instit Metaphys l. 2. cap. de Bon. Quemadmodum convenientia ad rationalem Naturam â—â—ve dictamen rectae rationis consurgit in actu honesto ex bonitate objecti finis aliarum circumstantiarum ita contraria disconvenientia seu defectus in malo culpae consurgit ex defectu illorum in actione ita ut si vel minimum contrariuÌ„ desit actus exeostatim reddatur culpabilis five pectaminosus Dionys dixit Bonum est ex integra causa malum autem ex quolibet defectu Revet in Hosea 4.14 p. 152. Iob 14 4. Hag. 2 12 13. See Iun. iâ— loe unlesse all circumstances required to the doing of a good act be observed but the act good in it-selfe is evill in the doer if one circumstance bee evill For every thing that is morally good must be conformable to the rule which that which is defective in any part required cannot be But how shall this bee applyed to the purpose Is every deficient act forthwith Idolatrous Or that which is by circumstance unlawfull in the doer because of his failing unlawfull to every one that doth communicate with him in the Ordinance but not in the defect If a Minister preach Christ of envie doe they sinne that heare sincerely and receive the truth in love If a man give almes in vaine-glory doth the poore man sinne who receives it in humilitie and thanksgiving An action done in one forme and manner may be sinne which in another forme and manner is the true worship of God which may be observed of him that is present in our Assemblies CAN. Ibid. As Iob saith who can bring a cleane thing out of an uncleane Not one But the false office is uncleane as is acknowledged And this further may bee amplified by that passage of the Prophet where it is shewed That holy things are polluted by touching things which are uncleane ANSWER That which is uncleane cannot causally univocallie and properlie bring forth that which is cleane but instrumentally it may A profane Minister may be the instrument of God to convert a sinner from the errour of his way and indispensation of the Sacrament seale to the worthy receiver the pardon of his sinne though he himselfe reape no profit or benefit thereby For herein the good that is wrought is not effected by any vertue or power in the Minister who is the Lords Officer or instrument but by the power of Gods Spirit and his free grace who knoweth how to use and blesse evill instruments for his owne purpose An uncleane Officer or person pollutes the holy things of God to himselfe but not to others who use them in faith according to the Lords appointment Why you should referre us to Iunius annotations I see not unlesse it be to shew us your forwardnesse to quote Authors which make nothing to your purpose For all that Iunius observeth is this That the Iewes being impure and polluted in heart did receive no sanctitie from the touch of Temple or Altar CAN. IBID. If in preaching the truth no Idolatrous act is performed then it will follow Ibid. Sect. 11. p. 116 They need not by his vvriting leave their unblessed standing For so they preach the truths of the Gospell they sinne not And then