Vicare of Christe aboue Lordes and kinges of this worlde and to see Princes and Emperours promise and sweare obedience vnto him Confut. fol. 178. b Harding That all Kinges and Emperours receiue their whole power at the Popes hande I neuer said it ne wrote it nor that they ought to sweare obedience and Fealtie vnto him These wordes are not to be founde neither in the places whiche you haue coted nor in the whole Confutation els where What and how great obedience Christian Princes owe vnto the Churche and vnto Christes Vicare the chiefe Gouernour of the same this is no place at large to discusse The wordes that you allege I acknowledge to be myne If that whiche there foloweth be ioyned withal the whole circumstance of my discourse declaring what is my meaning considered nothing shal seeme said beside truthe or reason After the wordes before rehersed immediatly thus it foloweth But they Confut 178. b. It is no absurditie the shepherd to be in auctoritie ouer the vvhole flocke Distinct 96. C. duâ sunt that are the faithful subiectes of the Church of God thinke it no absurditie that the shepherd be set not only aboue the Lambes and Ewes of the Churche but also aboue the Wethers and Rammes them selues It is a very great folie for them to finde faulte with the Superioritie of the Bishop of Rome who can neuer proue that he is not the Vicare of Christe If he were not his Vicare yet being a Bishop he is aboue any temporal Prince concerning his priestly office Lo M. Iewel by these and other my wordes in that place you might haue seene had you not bent your witte maliciously to stirre her Maiestie to hatred against vs what are the thinges and causes in whiche I reporte the Princes and highest estates of the world to stoupe vnto Christes Vicare and to promise him obedience As for Homage and Fealtie suche as Vassalles rendre vnto their temporal Princes in regard of temporal Dominion whereof by sownd of your speache you seeme to meane I spake not one word Is this the charitie of your Gospel M. Iewel by such vntrue meanes to incense the Prince against vs Item there Iewel VVhereas Pope Zacharias by the consent or the conspiracie of the Nobles of France deposed Chilpericus the true natural and liege Prince of that Realme and placed Pipinus in his roume Lo saith M. Harding ye must needes Confesse that this was a diuine power in the Pope for otherwise he could neuer haue donne it Thus muche he esteemeth the dishonours and ouerthrovves of Gods anointed Confut. Fol. 182. a. Harding Nay rather Lo saith M. Harding ye must needes confesse that M. Iewel belieth him and bothe vntruly reporteth his wordes and falsifieth that Storie For truly to speake it was not Pope Zacharie that deposed Childerike Let it be weighed what I saie touching this matter answering to the obiection which the Apologie maketh against the Popes in general These be my wordes Confut. Fol. 181. b. King Childerike of Fraunce deposed and Pipine aduaunced to the croune If the Pope Zacharias deposed Childerike for so I finde him more commonly named the king of Fraunce only vpon his owne pleasure or displeasure as ye saie and placed Pipine for him can ye tel that storie and not see what a strength of auctoritie is in that See which is hable with a worde to place and displace the mightiest king in Europe With a worde I saie for I am sure you can shewe vs of no armie that he sent to execute that his wil. Is that the power of a man trowe ye to appointe Kingdomes Can the Deuil him selfe at his pleasure set vp and depose Kinges No surely And muche lesse can any member of his doo the same Remember ye what Christe said when the Iewes obiected that he did cast out Deuilles Math. 12. in the name of the prince of Deuilles Beware ye sinne not against the holy Ghoste who confesse that the Pope hath pulled downe and set vp Kinges Which thing vndoubtedly he could not doo profitably and peaceably but by the great power of God And yet did that line of Pipine The prosperitie of the line of Pipine and Charles surmounted al other VVhat did Pope zacharias in the deposing of king Childerike and Charles the great whiche the Pope did set vp florish aboue any other stocke that ye can name sence the inclination of the Romaine Empire Whiche in that transposed state of so great a Kingdome maketh no obscure Argument of heauenly approbation and diuine prouidence Neither did the Pope Zacharias depose Childerike bicause he fansied him not as ye sclaunder but only consented to loose his subiectes from bonde of othe made to him at the general and most earnest request and sute of al the Nobilitie and communaltie of the whole realme of Fraunce VVhat manner a maÌ Childerike vvas finding him very vnprofitable and vnmeete for the kingdome as one who being of no witte and therefore commonly named Stupidus as muche to saie a dolt was altogethââ besides like a Sardanapalus geuen wholly to belly chere and to filthy loue of women Therefore in your owne wordes ye confesse a diuine power in the Pope as by whom God directeth the willes of faithful princes on the earth The more such examples ye bring the worse ye make your cause I would hier you to ease me of the labour of prouing such a notable facte You that find so great fault with Pope Zacharias for coÌsenting after a sort to the depositioÌ of Childerike a beastly man an vnprofitable and vnworthy King of Fraunce why do ye allow cherish and coÌmend so much Christofer Goodman and Iohn Knoxe with their felowes and helpers that were together at Geneua for writing intising and doing what in their power did lye to depose the noble and lawful Quenes of England and Scotland and with the Blastes of their traiterous Trompettes to remoue them from the right of their Crownes and roial estates Saith not Goodman that Wiat did his duetie in taking Armes against Queene Marie and that al such were Traitours as deceiued him and tooke not his parte If al be rightly constrewed the Quenes Maiestie of England now being I suppose hath no great cause GoodmaÌs bookes named the first and secoÌd blaste against the monstrous regimeÌt of vvomen Item an other hovv to obey or disobey VVith other the like fierbraÌdes of knoxe aÌd Gilbie GoodmaÌ in the Treatie hovv to obeie or disobeie pag. 204. either to commende them for such seditious Blastes or to like wel of you and your companions for geuing eare winde and fauour to the blowing of the same If Goodman had ben Pope of Rome as Knoxe they saie taketh vpon him to be Pope of Scotland ô Lorde what Counterblastes would ye and your good fellow Trompeters eâ this haue blowen vp against him Long er this tâe whole world should haue rong of it and the Pulpites whiche ye vse as your
to the General Councelles thinke good to make menne beleue that the General Councels haue yeelded to you Pride and humilitie maketh a cleare difference betwen the citie of God and the citie of the Deuil Iewel Pag. 43. VVhere you saie that Bishoppes onely haue Sentence definitiue in the Councel ye seeme vvillingly and vvithout cause to reporte vntruthe VVheÌ he vvrote that he vvas neither Pius secundus nor Pope but a priuate maÌ Aeneas Syluius de gestis CoÌcilij ConstaÌt lib. 1. False traÌslatioÌ Apparet in this place signifieth not it is plaine but it appeareth IohaÌ Gerson Quae veritates credendae Corol. 4. The 13. Chapt. For Pius Secundus * being him selfe a Pope vvould haue tolde you the contrarie These be his vvordes Apparet alios quam Episcopos in Concilijs habuisse vocem decidentem * It is plaine that certaine others beside Bishoppes had voice definitiue in the Councelles Likevvise Iohn Gerson Etiam ad laicos hoc potest extendi plus aliquando quà m ad multos Clericorum This priuiledge of geuing sentence in Councel maie be extended euen vnto the laie sorte yea and that oftentimes better then vnto many priestes Harding That in Councelles Bishoppes onely haue sentence definitiue the obiections of Pius 2. and Gerson answered Neither willingly nor without cause nor vntruth Not willingly For I came to speake of this point by occasion of your Apologie complaning that you had no audience in the General Councel at Trente Not without cause For that being true as I shal anone proue it to be true that onâly Bishoppes haue Sentence definitiue in the Councel ye being no Bishoppes at al for geuing SenteÌce definitiue there is no place for you which greueth you ful sore For faine would ye once sitte in General CouÌcel as the Masters and Superintendentes of al Christendome Not Vntruthe For it is euident by the auncient practise of the primitiue Churche that in al Councelles Only Bishops at Councels subscribe definitiuely only Bishoppes haue subscribed definitiuely The tenour of al General Councelles yet extant is a cleare witnesse hereof to al that can or wil peruse them And though a Negatiue be harde to proue yet this Negatiue that none but Bishoppes should subscribe in Councelles is plainely proued in the Auncient great General Councel of Châââdon Where it is openly ââouchâd first of the Bishopââ them selues Act. 1. Pag. 745. thus â Synodus Episcoporum est non Cleriâââ A Synode or Councel is of Bishoppes not of the inââriour Clergie or of Priestes as alwaies you turne the worde Then of one Martinus Presbyter a Priest thus Non est meum subscribere bid Pag. 775. EpiscoporuÌ tantùm est It is not my part to subscribe It belongeth only to Bishoppes But M. Iewel wil proue the contrarie and that others beside Bishoppes had sentence definitiue But by whom Forsoth by Aeneas Syluius and Iohn Gerson both very late writers and not yet of two hundred yeres auncientie Such newe litle worth stuffe he that requireth vs to proue al thinges by the writers of the first 600. yeres bringeth against the Auncient practise of the primitiue Churche And yet he belieth his Authours most shamâlesly See Reader hovv many vntrue partes Mâl plaieth in one pore litle sentence For first he saith that Pius Secundus being him selfe a Pope telleth vs the contrarie whiche is vtterly false For when he wrote that booke he was Aeneas Syluius Piccolomineus not Pius Secundus He was then â priuate man not a Pope And being Pope he recanted that hâ had done in the pretensed Councel of Basile and that he had written thereof and certaine other errours which before he had published Bulla recantationis Pij Papa 2. Tom. 4. Concil pag. 503. and written to the derogation of the See Apostolike and of the Clergie Neither was this tolde by Aeneas Syluius as a thing of his owne iudgement and of his owne vtterance but as a thing in that Synode said by Cardinalis Arelatensis whose priuatâ opinion that was and the same vttered he with that libertie which is graunted to al menne admitted to Councels in whiche they are permitted freely to speake what they thinke And therefore in debating of dâubteful matters they speake thinges contrarie one against an other And this saying of the Cardinal of Arles was in that CouÌcel controlled and gainesaid by other menne of great lerning and iudgement as by Panormitanus Ludouicus and others there mentioned So that it is no better auctoritie then a thing that is spoken in heate of disputation against the truth for the better discussion of the truth In alleging then your Doctor you haue committed fiue vntruthes First he neuer wrote any suche booke as you name to witte De Gestis Concilij ConstaÌtiensis but de Gestis Concilij Basiliensis Secondly when he wrote it Vide Aene Syl. de Gestis CoÌcil Basil li. 1. pa. 27 he was not Pius Secundus Pope as you saie he was but Aeneas Syluius Piccolomineus a priuate man Thirdly it is not the saying of Aeneas him selfe but of the Cardinal of Arles Fourthly you haue added of your owne to his sentence these wordes in Concilijs which are not in your Author Neither spake he that of other Councelles then of the Apostles Councel meÌcioned in the Actes Fifthly you corrupte your Doctor by false translation For Apparet doth not alwaies signifie it is plaine as you haue translated it but it seemeth or appeareth And many thinges appeare that be not plaine nor true as this it selfe is one Of a thing that is plaine to saie it appeareth were preiudicial to the truth Whether these vntrue partes haue proceded of Rhetorical policie called otherwise lying for aduantage to make the most of your Author you could or of mere ignorance for that you neuer saw the place your selfe but trusted other mennes vntrue eies therein or els of a certaine dispositioÌ proper to your humour that nothing can passe your fingers without some false sleight or other I leaue it to be considered of others Geâson impudently be lyed and falsified by M. Iewel As for Iohn Gerson you deale as falsly with him as with Aeneas Syluius and to speake plainely though as you would haue it sâme vncourteously you vtterly belie him In the place by you allege Gerson speaking of verities that are so of necessitie to be beleeued Gerson Quae veritates credendae Corâllario 4 that otherwise a man can not be saued sheweth that one man is bounde vnder paine of heresie to holde some pointes with certaine and expresse faith and thereof in no wise to doubt whereof an other man for a time without blame maie be in doubte This doth he there declare by a threefolde example As a diuine saith he or a professour of diuinitie exercised in the holy scriptures is bound expressely to holde and not to doubte at al of many thinges of which a simple and an vnlearned man being required might with
husband of one wife that the same order contineweth stil in the Church thereto he saieth in his secoâd homilie de patientia Iob non ea ratione quod id nunc in Ecclesia obseruetur Oportet enim omni prârsus castitate Sâcerdotem ornatum esse S. Paule sayeth he required this not in consideration that the same be nowe obserued in the Church For it behoueth a Bishop to be garnished with al manner a chastitie Iewel Here commeth M. Hardinge in a lofte vvith Io Triumphe as hauing beaten dovvne al the vvorld vnder his feete And as being already in sure possession of the victorie he crieth out Impudencies Loude his foule Faultes and pietie Fittens And ful terribly chargeth vs like a Conqueroure to render oure selues and to râcante for sonne This nevve courage is suddainly blovven vpon him for that he thââketh vve haue intruded vâon his office and as he saieth haâe corrupted and falsified the holy Fathers But it vvere a vvorthie matter to knovve vvherein Forsoothe vve saie by the reporte of Sozâmenus and Gregorius Nazianzenus that Spiridion and Gregorie Father to Nazianzen being bothe Married Bishoppes notvvithstanding theire Marriage vvere neuer the vvârsâ hable to doo theire Ecclesiastical offices but rather the better * The vvordes importe it not Here M. Harding of himselfe and freely confesseth these Holy Fathers vvâre neââr the vvorse hable to dââ their offices For so muche thâ ãâã of ãâã importe ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã But that they vvere the better hable to doe theirâ offices ââcause of theire VViues that he dânieth vtterly and herein he saieâh me are corrupters and falsifiers of the Fathers And thus the vvhole difference that is betvvene M. Hardinge and vs touching this matter standeth onely in these tvvo poore vvordes Rather the better and âeuer the vâârse Novv gentle reader I beseche thee also Reader to vveigh my Ansvver that thou maiest be the better hable tâ iâdge betvvene vs I beseeche the indifferently vveigh these vvââdes Gregorie Nazianzene hereof that is of the helpe Vntruth for then he vvas not Bishop but an infidel Nazian in Epitaphiâ patris that his Father ãâã being the Bishop of Nazianzum had by his vvife vvriteth thus Illa quae data est Adamo c. Eua that vvvas geuen to Adam for a helper for asmuch as it vvas nââ good for man to be alone in steede of a helper became his enemie It follovveth Meo autem Patri Mater mea data illi à Deo non tantum adiutrix facta est id enim minus esset miruÌ sed etiaÌ dux princeps verbo factoque inducens illuÌ ad res optimas Et aliis quidem rebus quamuis optimum esset subditam esse viro propter iura coniugii tamen in pietate non verebatur seipsam illi magistram exhibere My mother being geuen to my father of God became not onely his helper for that had ben no great vvonder but also vvas his leader and Captaine She vvas his Maistresse before he knevv vvhat the faith of Christ vvas yet they serue you to no purpose False He vvas not then Bishop of Nazianzum nor yet a Christian bothe by vvord and by deede trayning him vnto the best And albeit in other thinges it vvere beste for her to be subiecte vnto her husbande for the right of marriage yet in religion and Godlinesse she doubted not to becomme his Maistresse These vvordes M. Hardinge be plaine and cleare and vvithout fitton Gregorie Nazianzen sayeth that his ovvne âââther vvas vnto his father the Bishop of Nazianzum a helper and a directour both by vvorde and deede to leade him to the best and that in al other thinges being his inferiour yet in âeligion and Godlinesse she vvas his * ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã VVhat a do vvould this fellovv make if he had me at a Vantage in deede that thus fareth vvithout cause as by the ansvver it shal better appeare Maistresse And yet mâst al these vvordes so open so plaine so cleare be drovvned vvith your simple distinction of Rather the better and neuer the vvorse Maie vve not novve allovve you vvith fauour to take al these that ye cal sitions lyes corruptions and falsifienges home againe vnto your selfe If you ââââr crââle thâse tâââges before is ãâ¦ã must remembre al truth must not be measured by your reading ⪠Harding To beginne with these last wordes as I require not al truth to be measured by my rââding M. Iâwâl so neither is it to be measured by your writing Whether I euer readde these thinges before or no it skilleth not Certaine it is where you readde al that ye haue here alleged out of S. Gregorie Nazianzene you readde also that whereby your false and vnreasonable assertion is confuted teaching that his Father being Bishop of NazianzuÌ learned the doctrine of Godlines of his wife Hauing read and seene the truth of this point in that very place and here conceeling it that you might not seeme confuted yea and so boldely auouching the contrarie how make you not al menne that know this witnesses of your falshode and impudencie M. Ievvels gay eloquence minister-like As for your vaine and light tauntes of my comming in a lofte with Io Triumphe of my terrible charging of you like a Conquerour of the new courage suddainly blowen vpon me and such other prety eloquence fitter for a Minister then for a sober man I can easily contemne No wise man that readeth my wordes for which ye ruffle so with me wil iudge you had iuste cause with suche sporte to delight your selfe Neither said I if you marke my wordes wel that you had corrupted and falsified the holy Fathers for that you said vpon reporte of Sozomenus and S. Gregorie Nazianzene that Spiridion and Gregorie Father to Nazianzene were for their marriage neuer the worse hable to serue God but rather the better which neuerthelesse is false but for that you speake it generally of a Bishop as though Bishops should doâ that apperteineth to their charge the better if they married wiues For truth whereof I referre me to the place SpiridioÌ and Gregorie Nazianzenes father Those two holy Fathers were menne endewed with a singular and special grace and the example of so few is not to be drawen to be made a rule in general as I said in my Confutation Yet the most that is said of them is that they serued God neuer the worse by reason of their Marriage Againe M. Ievvel defeÌdeth after his manner but fevv partes of the Apologie whereas I answered to euery parte of your Apologie in this place you defende but one thing by me confuted Neither to say the truth doo you defende the same but say what you were hable to shew some colour of a Defence This argueth that the other thinges you brought are fully confuted For elles why did you not defende them And this muche is the Reader here to be warned of by the waie That whereas most
others whiche he thought best to conceele and dissemble One thing good Reader it behoueth thee much to be warned of in case thou desire to stande an vpright vmpeere betwen M. Iewel and me Vpon what places so euer thou shalt happen to light in which he shal seeme to haue any good aduantage against me or against the Doctrine of the Catholique Churche passe not them ouer lightly weigh wel both our groundes examine both our allegations truste not to ought that is laid forth by either of vs presently but resort to the Bookes whence euery thing is taken Doing so thou shalt most certainely perceiue whether of vs both vseth more truth Doubtlesse in such places thou shalt seldoÌ it were much so saie neuer find him to allege the wordes whereby he preteÌdeth any colour of aduantage without some false sleight or other If thou desire to vnderstand this by some examples consider I praie thee what great a doo he maketh about the name of Vniuersal Bishop Vniuersal Bishop As he handleth that matter if a man wil beleeue him al thinges seeme to be plaine on his side Defence 120. The CouÌcel of Carthage saith he decreed by expresse wordes that the Bishop of Rome should not be called the Vniuersal Bishop And behold Reader the confideÌce that he hath in this cause which he sheweth with these wordes speaking vnto me This you saie is forged and falsified and is no part of that Conucel For indiffereÌt trial both of the truth aÌd of the falshed herein I besech you behold the very wordes of the Councel euen as they are alleged by your owne Doctour Gratian. These they are Prima Sediâ Episcopus c. Let not the Bishoppe of any of the first Sees be called the Prince of Priestes Dist 99. Primae or the highest Priest or by any like name but onely the Bishoppe of the first See But let not the Bishoppe of Rome him selfe be called the Vniuersal Bishoppe c. Now M. Harding compare our wordes and the Councelles wordes together We saie none otherwise but as the Councel saith The Bishop of Rome him selfe ought not to be called the vniuersal Bishop Herein we doo neither adde nor minis he but reporte the wordes plainely as we finde them If you had lookte better on your booke and would haue tried this matter as you saie by your learning ye might wel haue reserued these vnciuile reproches of falshed to your selfe and haue spared your crying of shame vpoÌ this Defender Here is muche a doo as thou feest Reader and al standeth vpon falshed as I said at the first in my Confutation We striue not for the name of Vniuersal Bishop neither hath the Pope Challenged that title Yet these menne haue neuer donne with Vniuersal Bishop The whole matter is soone answered These wordes vniuersalis autem nec etiam Romanus Pontifex appelletur Concil Carthag 3 Cap. 26. The Bishop of Rome ought not to be called the vniuersal Bishop these wordes I saie be not the wordes of the thirde Councel of Carthage nor in the Greeke nor in the Latine but the wordes of Gratian and they stande for the Summe of that parte of the distinction whiche there foloweth And thereof M. Iewel was not ignorant as it appeareth by his owne wordes in the same place Howbeit were it true that Gratian had ignorantly added them to the Councel as wordes of the CouÌcel what learned man trusteth Gratian a man not greatly trusted in respect of sundrie his allegations when it is easy to see the Original For this I referre the Reader to the 39. Chapter of the third Booke of this Treatie fol. 184. b. Perusing that I haue answered to this point there thou shalt fully vnderstand how falsly M. Iewel hath dealte therein and how litle cause he had so to triumphe For neither hath the Councel any suche woordes at al nor speaketh it there so much as one worde of the Bishop of Rome nor hath Gratian put those wordes as a testimonie of the Councel but as the Summe of that parte of the 99. Distinction which immediatly foloweth As wel might M. Iewel haue said that those other wordes there placed vnde Pelagius secundus omnibus Episcopis had ben the wordes of that Councel He that knoweth Gratians manner of writing can not but either laugh at M. Iewelles ignorance or maruaile at his impudencie To proue that it is lawful for a man to marrie a wife being in holy Orders The example of Eupsychius he allegeth the example of one Eupsychius who was a Laie Gentleman of Caesaria the chiefe Citie in Cappadocia and in a time of persecution suffred Martyrdom soone after that he had benne married Now most falsly he corrupteth the reporter of the Storie and maketh this Eupsychius a Bishop that it might appeare to the ignorant that one had married a wife after he had benne made a Bishop which would haue serued our married Superintendentes purpose gaily For yet after so many yeres searche they can not bring vs forth so much as one cleare example of the ancient Churche that euer there was any Bishop or Priest married after that degree and holy Order taken With such vncleane conueiance their vncleane treacherie is defended Defence 176. Cassio li. 6. cap. 14. His wordes be these Cassiodorus writeth thus In illo tempore ferunt Martyrio vitam finisse Eupsychium Caesariensem Episcopum ducta nuper vxore dum adhuc quasi sponsus esse videretur At that time they saie Eupsychius the Bishoppe of Caesaria died in Martyrdome hauing married a wife a litle before being yet in manner a newe married man Beholde Reader the falshod of this man First contrarie to his custome elswhere he leaueth the Greeke fonteine where this Storie was First written and goeth to the riuer of the olde translation in many places not most exactly answering the Greeke And why did he so Forsooth bicause if he had alleged Sozomenus the Greeke writer his falshod had benne fowly bewraied For he nameth this Eupsychius expressely Eupsychius a laie-man by M. Iewels forgerie made a Bishop to proue the Mariages of Priestes ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã as much to saie Eupsychius one of the Lordes or one of the Nobilitie of the Citie of Caesaria in Cappadocia Then bicause the Tripartite Storie of Cassiodorus setting foorth hath not so expressely that he was a nobleman of Caesaria M. Iewel was so bolde as to falsifie the place and to putte in of his owne this woorde Episcopum to helpe his matter and so corrupting his authour maketh him to cal him Eupsychium Caesariensem Episcopum Eupsychius the Bishoppe of Caesaria Thus he taketh vpon him to make him a Bishoppe who was a Laie man as wel a Bishoppe as he him selfe is that it might appeare to the vnlearned that a Bisshoppe married a wife after he was Bisshoppe Fol. 302. 318. See what I haue said hereto in this Treatie where I answer his false stuffe touching
of the ministration of them I vtterly condemne That I saie Their Faith is no Faith it is the sixthe lye I confesse it to be a Faith touching the pointes wherein they agree with the catholique Churche In the other pointes I saie it is no Faith but errour and heresie Albeit Arius the heretique had a Faith Eunomius had a Faith Nestorius Euctyhes Sabellius Photinus Apollinaris briefly al Heretiques had their Faithes but al were false Faithes as much to say no Faithes but as the Latines cal it Perfidia M. Iewel for some shewe of vpright dealing hath filled his margent in this place with cotations as thicke as they maie stand one by an other directing the reader to my bookes If it shal please the reader diligently to peruse the places bothe in my Confutation and in my Reioinder he shal trie him to be as he is euery where a false and a shamelesse lyer As for the Quenes Lawes The Quenes Lavves and Parlamentes and Parlamentes for change of Religion and Faith what haue I to doo with them whether they be lawes and Parlamentes or no Be they as they be It is not my profession to discusse that matter If there be any that doubte thereof let the learned men of lawe be demaunded their opinion If they wil not or if they be loth to speake what they thinke let the questioÌ be differred vntil the time come that M. Iewel and I shal be placed where we shal no more contende about the authoritie of mannes lawes 2. Cor. 5. but shal ech of vs receiue according to that we haue done in our bodies that is to saie accordingly as we haue in our doctrine and life either kept or broken Goddes lawes The age to come perhappes shal be hable to saie more therein then this present time It is an olde said sawe Filia temporis Veritas Truth is the daughter of time Let vs not trouble our selues about this odious question M. Iewel I praie you but referre it ouer to the time to come Yet bicause in your pretensed Defence ye beare menne in hande that I seeme to saie Defence pag. 595. that the Parlament holden in the firste yere of the Quenes Maiesties reigne was no Parlament for that the Bishops refused to agree vnto the statute made for change of Religion I wil here truely laie forth my wordes in whiche you auouche I seeme so to saie that it maie appeare to al menne what a quareller you are These be my wordes Confut. fol. 276 a. Where haue ye treated of your matters That matter hath benne treated saie ye in open Parlament with long consultation and before a notable Synode and Conuocation First in what Parlament Meane ye the first of our Soueraine Lady Quene Elizabeth or any of those of king Edward the sixth his daies c. If ye meane as by reason you must the Parlamentes of these later daies the first of al did make most for you and yet how open was it for you Had ye any place at al in it Were ye admitted within the doores Or had ye any thing to doo in that assemblie Consider then with what Consultation your purposes were concluded Did they tarie manie monethes about it Had they Bishoppes Had they Diuines and the most learned to reason too and fro with al libertie Was the authoritie of the Vniuersal Churche of Christe and the doctrine of the Auncient Fathers considered Ye saie in Latine Plenis Comitijs that is in the ful and whole assemblie as though none at al had there resisted but euery man had yelded to your matters What saie ye then of the Spiritual Lordes a great parte of the Parlament and without al doubte the parte whiche must be chiefly and onely regarded when the Question is of Religion How many of them gaue their voice to your Gospel Yea whiche of them al did not resiste it c. As of the Spiritual Lordes ye had none at al so of the Temporal ye had not al and so had ye also in the lower house very many and wel learned that spake against you * These vvordes folowing M. Ievvel nipte avvaie in the Defence And mo would had conscience benne as free as auctoritie was dredful And yet cal ye this a ful Parlament and a Parlament whiche had al his partes wholy fauouring you * Vpon these wordes M. Iewel maketh muche a doo in the Defence as if I had denied that Parlament to be a Parlament for lacke of the Bishoppes consent But whether I said so or no let these mine owne wordes before rehersed be the trial Touching the matter it selfe he saith how truely I doubt that in the Parlamentes of England for any Statute to be lawfully enacted the consent of Archebishoppes and Bishoppes hath not ben thought necessarie Defence pag. 595. and that matters haue passed only by the more parte of voices yea although these be his very wordes al Archebishoppes Defence Ibidem and Bishops were neuer so earnestly bent against it And yet he saith further whereat I marueil that Statutes so passing onely by the voices of the Lordes Temporal though the Lordes Spiritual dissente neuer so muche haue neuerthelesse alwaies ben confirmed enacted and published vnder the names of the Lordes Spiritual and Temporal If it be so then I perceiue it faieth with the lordes Spiritual as it faieth with me For as M. Iewel hath published and said many thinges vnder my name that I neuer said nor meant to thintent to discredite me if any happily be so simple that wil beleeue him So by this tale lawes be published vnder the name of Archebishoppes and Bishoppes who are the Lordes Spiritual vnto whiche they neuer gaue their assent but contrary wise earnestly dissented What this is to be called in the Statutes of the Realme I knowe not but in the writinges of priuate menne suche as Maister Iewels and myne are this practise of fathering wordes and sayinges vpon a man whiche he neuer said nor wrote is accompted vnlawful and false and commonly is named forgerie falsifying and belying the chiefe flowers wherewith M. Iewel alwaies decketh his garland He referreth me for further proufe of this matter to the Recordes of a Parlament holden by king Edward the first at S. Edmundes Burie the Archebishoppes and Bishopes being as he saith quite shutte forthe Anno Domini 1296 where he telleth me it is written thus Habito Rex cum suis Baronibus Parlamento Clero excluso statutum est c. The king keeping the Parlament with his Barons the Clergie that is to saie the Archebishoppes and Bishoppes being shutte forth it was enacted c. Perhappes the inferiour Clergie was excluded who as I haue heard Lawiers saie in olde time came to the Parlamentes and had their place in the lower house But that the Archebishoppes and Bishoppes were excluded thereof I doubte Item saith he in the time of king Henrie the thirde a statute touching the legitimation of
you are to defend it what wise man seeth not Yet bicause you thinke your selfe shamed for euer excepte you stand to it stoutely ye proceede without regard of truth or modestie And nowe seing your selfe brought to this distresse that you must either yeelde with some shame or prosecute your Chalenge with more shame ye choose rather to seeme impudent in lying and to passe al measure in craking then any thing ouerseene in that you first tooke in hande And albeit bothe I and others haue made most euident proufe hereof and the thing it selfe speaketh so muche yea and your owne very frendes see it and be right sorfor it yet forsooth to cal M. Iewel a lyer a sclaunderer a craking Chalenger by verdite of M. Iewel him selfe it was vnmannerly and vnciuilly done But sir sith you require me to be so courteous in my writinges against you why did not you your selfe in yours against me vse more courtesie Is that commendable in you whiche is reproueable in me Or els what haue you a special dispensation to say what you liste and to require al others to adore you and say Aue Rabbi Shal it be lawful for you to crie out vpon vs tolle tolle crucifige and must we sing vnto you Sanctus Sanctus Sanctus Whiles ye barke and bite must we caste a disshe of fragmentes vnto you Whiles ye play the Beare with vs must we throw honny vnto you Whiles ye play the parte of Satan must we light a candle before you S. Paule the chosen vessel of Christe teaching Titus Tit. 1. how to demeane himselfe towardes such as you are said Increpa illos durè rebuke them sharpely But what soeuer you say or doo must we needes sothe you and smoothâ you Muste we stroke you and cooxe you as men doo curst boyes after they haue done shrewd turnes If you passe al men that euer wrote in number of lyes in vanitie of boasting in the common custom of scoffing as now it hath benne prooued against you shal we feare that we seeme not to lacke the ciuilitie you speake of to cal you a lyer a boaster a scoffer What is the matter that doing so il you require to be spoken of so wel By this or no vvaie els like it is we should please M. Ievvel PErhaps whereas the Rentes of the Bishoprike of Sarisburie cause men al to belorde you your eares being of long tyme accustomed to suche honorable greetinges you looke to be honoured at our handes as you are of your poore hungry Craftesmen that hauing learned to reade Englishe pretily sue vnto you for Ministerships And then whereas you lye impudently folowing them we muste saie were it not that your good Lordship saith so verely we should haue thought otherwise And whereas you falsifie your testimonies we must put the fault in your Spectacles When you hew and mangle the Doctours so fowly that al the worlde may see it we must beare you in hande that when your Lordship wrote so the booke was not at hande When you serue vs with a point of Scurrilitie we muste saye O howe it becommeth your L. to be meary When you shoote at randon diuerting altogether from the special point that is to be answered vnto impertinent matter we must say your L. shooteth faire though somewhat wide of the marke When by no witte nor cunning you are hable to make good your Chalenge yet then we must say that your L. lacketh no woordes and hath geuen a good Push towardes it To be shorte for these be the special pointes for whiche you accuse my vtterance of vncourtesie when you speake big and Goliathlike vpbraid al the hoste of God to witte the whole Catholique Churche of these laste thousand yeres what must we doo but to shew token of feare 1. Reg. 17. as the Israelites vnder king Saul did and geue backe that you may boast and crake alone Truly touching your dignitie what accompte so euer you make of your selfe I take you but for M. Iewel Bacheler of Diuinitie sometime person of Sunningwel betwen Oxford and Abington And that is the greatest degree that euer I knewe you called vnto If the Quenes Highnes of her special fauour towardes you haue geuen you the rentes of the Bishoprike of Sarisburie you are the more bounde to thanke her and to consider what accompte you haue to make of it It is not money that can set you one steppe higher in ecclesiastical degree A Bishop you are not I am right sure neither can al the Kinges and Quenes of the worlde nor al the Parlamentes of England by any their owne onely power and auctoritie make you a lawful and a true Bishop The same I tolde you in my Confutation of your Apologie whiche point you haue not sufficiently answered as it shal appeare Yet was it very behoofful for you to haue fully answered But I beare with you as therein not lacking good wil but habilitie Study for it so long as you wil you shal neuer be hable to make it good that you are yet a right Bishop Therefore in this respecte you ought to beare with my bolde vtterance the more taking you for no greater man in right then you were when you subscribed in Oxford to the Real Presence to the Sacrifice of the Masse and to those other pointes that now you impugne so busily In very deede this muche I confesse that in case you were a Bishop though an vnworthy Bishop yea a wicked Bishop yet for the dignitie of that Vocation and for the Orders sake I should and would reuerence you accordingly Act. 23. Whereas it was tolde S. Paule after he had reuiled Ananias that he was the high Bishop he reuoked his worde and submitted him selfe to that was written Thou shalt not curse the gouernour of thy people Exod. 22. Whereby he doth vs to vnderstande that had he knowen he had benne no Bishop at al he woulde not haue reuoked his worde that in your opinion is vnciuile and vncourteous but haue let it stand in force You being as il a man as euer Ananias was and hauing done muche more spite vnto the Churche of Christe and more dishonour vnto God then euer he did beare with me for speaking truly and ernestly without flatterie Act. 23. The example of S. Paule saying to Ananias Thou painted wal not knowing him to be the high Bishop and yet occupying a more honorable roome then you are yet called vnto leadeth me not greatly to repent of any of those wordes spoken of you or of your felowes the Sacramentaries and Protestantes of our time whiche to impaire my credite you haue culled out of my Bookes and laid together in one heape And what so euer I haue written or said that toucheth your person specially and irketh you I take God to record therein I respected not M. Iewel the priuate man but M. Iewel the publique enemie of Christes Churche the professed Impugner of the Truth and Catholique Religion
swarued I from the truth when I called the Deuil the Father of Heretiques But who seeth not howe here M. Iewel bewraieth him selfe and sheweth his gilty conscience For why should he be offended with any suche saying onlesse he thought him selfe therein touched So Iudas bewraied the gilte of his owne treason saying Nunquid ego sum Rabbi Matth 25 Is it I Master But what meane you M. Iewel May not a man speake of Heretiques as it beseemeth them to be spoken of but you must take peper in the nose Can we not speake ought of Heretiques but your parte must be therein If you wil needes haue it so take it so and God amend you If the reader list to conferre the place thus there I say Confut. 2. a. But what meane al Heretikes may we iudge by coueting so much to be sene that whiche they are not Forsooth they meane none other thing then their Father the Deuil meaneth when he goeth about to begyle man For then what doth he Vseth he not this policie to change his owggly hewe and put him selfe in goodly shape of an Angel of light 2. Cor. 11. For he is not vnwitting that if he shewed him selfe in his owne forme suche as he is euery one would flie from him and none lightly would be deceiued by him Heretikes doo the like Although they hate the Church neuer so deadly yet to haue the more opportunitie to hurt it pretend them selues to be of the Church Lo M. Iewel speaking of Heretiques in general and indefinitely I said their Father the Deuil not your Father the Deuil By this your vndue complaint you bewray your selfe as the Ratte doth oftentimes by his owne noise and euen so you seeme to acknowledge the Deuil for your Father and to enfeaffe your selfe of the estimation and opinion of an Heretique with whiche by me you were not charged The more you ought to beare with me if I happe to stumble vppon your right title hereafter With like reason good Reader I could easily discharge my selfe of the reste of the vehement and sharpe speaches obiected by M. Iewel but I accompte not the matter worth whereon to bestow so much labour This for that may suffice Now it may please thee to peruse that here foloweth and to consider whether M. Iewel be innocent him selfe in the pointes whereof he taketh occasion so immoderatly to reprooue his Aduersarie M. Iewel countercharged with the like sharpenesse and discourtesie of wordes as he reproueth in his Aduersarie The 3. Chapter BVT Sir tel me I pray you what is your iudgement touching these and the like vncourteous wordes and speaches as you cal them with whiche for the more part you vntruly burthen me Thinke you that in no case such manner of vtterance is lawful to be vsed If you thinke so you are deceiued M. Iewel The example of Christ Iohn Baptist the Prophetes the Apostles the ancient holy Fathers shew it to be lawful who as it is before rehersed in certaine cases vsed it so often Verely I doubt not but in this case I meane when a Catholike hath to conuince an Heretike it is most lawful yea not only lawful but also most expedient for causes aboue touched Neither in this case to vse such order of speache is to be accompted Discourtesie and Inciuilitie as your vnnecessarie Ciuilitie interpreteth but right zele and iuste seueritie That spirite of God which aduiseth vs by the mouth of the wise man Prou. 26. to answere a Foole according to his foolishnesse admonisheth vs no lesse in the treatie of Goddes causes with Heretiques to vse suche verdure of Language as may best represse the sawcinesse and pride of their stomakes Neuerthelesse if you thought such sharpe language to be vtterly vnlawful as a thing that may not stand with true modestie and ciuilitie how happed it that so often times you forgote your selfe It is no courteous dealing M. Iewel to reproue that in others that you so coÌmonly do your selfe Touching bitter laÌguage wherof so bitterly you complaine it may please you at your good leisure to cal to remembrance whose wordes among infinite others these are with what spirite what charitie what modestie they haue benne by you vttered Whiche wordes as for a great parte they haue the outwarde shew of no lesse heate and vehemencie then you note in mine so to any man of right iudgement they seeme to be of a farre more spite and malice A few principal flowers of M. Iewelles modest quiet and charitable speache vttered against the Catholikes taken as they came to sight out of his pretensed Defence founde partely in the Apologie partely in the texte of the said Defence some few also in the Margent FRantike Anabaptistes and Heretiques as ye be Defence 389. Ye Scribes ye Pharisees ye Hypocrites 625. Of the howse of God ye haue made a Caue of Theeues Defence Pag. 2. 304. Of the Churche you haue made a Caue of Theeues 48. The Temple now a daies is a denne of Theeues 706. The Churche they haue made a denne of Theeues 739. You haue blended Goddes wine with puddle water 66. You haue turned the beautie of Sion into the confusion of Babylon 2. Ye haue turned Goddes Temple into the Synagog of Sathan 328. They are without either shame of man or feare of God In the Preface to the Christian Reader They wilfully withstand the truth They be geuen ouer to mainteine lies In the Preface to the Christian Reader They are the children of vntruth They are the Children that wil not heare the law of God Your hote raging sprite 2. Leaue this Hypocrisie 377. The Iewes your ancient Fathers 632. Your Fathers the Phariseis 2. Your forefathers the Phariseis 31 Your fathers cried out what shal we do c. Ioan. 12. 327. S. Hierome said of your fathers non tam indigneutur c. In Sophon c. 3. 328. Ye confesse Scribes and Phariseis to be your fathers 625. Your fathers cried out against Christe Nos legem habemus 484. Christe was called a Samaritane by your auncient Fathers 631. This is very the leauen of the Scribes and Phariseis 66. For malice they depraue our sayinges 23. Your Idolatrous and blasphemous fondnesse 290. They batter vs with lies 23. In spite of the Popes 33. The Popes blinde preiudices 40. The Pope his Cardinalles his Bishoppes sleape and do nothing In the Preface to the Reader The Popes flattering Parasites 160. One of the Popes soothing Pages and Clawbackes 329. The Church of Rome is the very harlot of Babylon and rowe of Deuilles 453. The Canonistes be the Popes Parasites 722. The Tyrannie of the Bishoppes of Rome 457. The Popes Barbarous Persianlike Pride Ibidem The Church of Rome is nothing elles but a mother of falshod and schoole of Pride 609. Idolatrie is in the Churche of Rome 628. 629. The Pope vseth neither Gods worde nor discipline 550. The Churche of Rome hath most shamefully and wickedly erred 565. The Pope speaketh
more reuerently of Peter then of Iesus Christe 593. The Popes Aduocates Abbates Bishoppes open enemies to the Gospel 618. Your Popes Retainers 695. They make decrees expressely against Gods worde 620. The Pope wil plucke from vs the Gospel and al the confidence we haue in Christ Iesu 723. The Pope hath blinded the whole worlde this many hundred yeres and no man maie condemne him though he carrie awaie with him a thousand soules into hell 729. Frantike gouernement of the Pope 733. The second Councel of Nice was vaine peeuish wicked blasphemous 502. Before the Scriptures they preferre their owne Dreames 70. Hicke Scorners eloquence 356. Hicke Scorners logique 270. Hypocritical eloquence 2â0 They are very Churche robbers 228. These shewes sales and markettes of Masses carrying about and worshipping of bread other idolatrous and blasphemous fondnesse 290. Blockish and olde wiues tale 296. Haruest of Massemongers 302. Truth is with crueltie and tyrannie kepte vnder 334. They agree together as the Phariseis and Saduceis as Herode and Pilate c. 342. The very foes of the Gospel and enemies to Christes Crosse 354 Your faction 611. 615. Aduoutrie ribaudrie whoredome murthering of kinne inceste brothel houses flockes of Concubines heardes of harlot haunters beastly sensualitie abominable naughtinesse 384. Like Anabaptistes and Libertines 395. Naughty personnes and hypocrites 429. They abhorre and flee the worde of God as a theefe flieth the gallowes 464. Ye rent in peeces and burne the ancient Fathers 500. Ye condemne the Scriptures 505. Your Droues and heardes of Monckes 508. They let concubines to ferme to their Priestes 510. Their cursed paltrie Seruice 511. They mumble vp their Seruice in a Barbarous tongue 515. The Canonistes at this daie for their bellies sake c. 560. They haue choked vp the fonteine of lyuing water with durtâ and mire 573. They haue forsaken Christe and the Apostles 576. VVith most notorious sacriledge they seuer the Sacramentes 584. They leane to ignorance and darkenes 590. They haue spoiled and disanulled the ordinances and doctrine of the Primitiue Churche 592. Your wilful ignorance 602. Blinde Balams wilful purpose 602. They make decrees expressely against Goddes worde 620. They take parte with Annas and Caiphas Ibidem Vnlearned Bishoppes slow bellies 623. Errour Idolatrie Superstition tyrannie Pompe 626. The Councel of Trident is a Conspiracie not a Councel 626. Princes Ambassadours be vsed as mocking stockes at the Councelles 631. VVith spite they leaue out Princes 635. O glorious Thraso 640. They set not a iote by any point of religion saue that whiche concernes their bellie and riotte 642. This is proude this is spiteful Ibidem Princes be despitefully scorned and abused by them 697. They harden their hartes against God and his Christe 715. They are menne farre more vngraceous and wicked then any diceplaiers be 728. Tyrannie of the Popes kingdome 732. They were fooles and madde menne 733. A very spiteful dealing 54. Content thy selfe good Reader with these few taken out of the whole heape To laie forthe al were to printe his Huge booke againe For of suche stuffe in manner and of vaine Scoffes the whole consisteth Nowe bicause M. Iewel hath laid together an other Heape of wordes culled out of my bookes which of his courtesie he would needes calle Scoffes and Scornes here to make an euen reckening with him I haue thought good to returne vnto him coine of the same stampe tolde out of his owne bagges though it be more cankred then mine is Scoffes and Scornes be vnseemely saith M. Iewel Defence pag. 8. Scoffes and Scornes against God his Churche and his Sainctes I trow ye would proue that God the Father made holy water and said Masse 496. Christe an Abbate 66. S. Peter said masse with a golden Cope and a triple Crowne 300. The Apostles had keies geuen them but no house to open 163. As if Christe and the Pope were ioined purchasers 608. If Christe were not Christe then S. Patrike should be Christe 231. Peter and Paule had neuer Papale Christianitie 674. Sir Clement Iacke of Andrew 536. The Romaine faith was heard of through out the whole worlde and so was the Capitole of Rome 437. So long as the Churche of Rome can speake for her selfe al is wel 715. The spirite of Rome 606. S. Augustines vnceasoned fantasies 370. Sacramentarie Scoffes VVho taught M. Harding that Christe hath change of diuers bodies 86. Your shoppes and gaineful boothes 333. meant of Aulters Came Christe to saue bread and wine 254. Came the Sonne of man from heauen to saue Accidentes 254. VVhere was Christes bodie euer promised to your Mouth 274 The poore Spiritual Fourmes and holy Accidentes are put to al the paines 261. The man in the moone newly Christened 37. How can a few droppes of cold water bring vs to the hope of resurrection 221. These be their keies of the kingdome of heauen 249. Scoffes against the Pope Bishoppes and Priestes One Principal Archangel Pope in heauen 100. The Emperour was the Popes Summoner 671. The Pope a special Maister Keie 160. The Pope hath the holy Ghoste I trow at his commaundement 724. The Pope a lorde Paramounte 161. The Popes owne Minions and Champions 468. Dame Ioane the Pope 374. This is one of the Cardinalle vertues of Rome to take tolle of Bawdrie 369. in marg Princehoode ãâã âpostolique ioily large wordes and carry great sounde âââ VVhat if Christeâ Vicare him selfe be Antichrist 433. In Margine Your Pope no more a Bishop then Annas your Priest no more a Priest then the Priest of Dagon or Baal 659. Maie Bishoppes 664. Blinde Sir Robert the Archebishop of Armache 597. Blinde Sir Robert of Scotland and M. Pates of England seely poore Bishoppes 714. The blessed Bishoppes of the Second Nicen Councel 502. These be the great VVorthies of the worlde 714. Scoffes particular and general M. Harding skippeth into Goddes chaire 23. M. Hardinges mystical Catholique eares 232. So coye and careful M. Harding is for holy Fourmes and his kingdom of Accidentes 248. M. Hardinges Almanake 22. How long hath M. Harding benne a wisard 209. M. Hardinges face died in Scarlet 183. M. Harding Proctor for the Stewes 370. M. Hardinges Dimi Communion 195. M. Hardinges yong vntiedy Argumentes 650. Albertus Pighius the stowtest Gallant of your Campe. 24. M. Harding wil trouble his Godfathers and cause them to geue him a new name 416. M. Hardinges mouthe no iuste measure 8. If you had not studied your Copia verborum you could neuer haue benne so copious 388. And do you know his harte by towting in his eare 157. In Margine Alas your poore Chickens would die for colde 28. No Haralde could lightly haue said more in the matter 496. Al the same is substantially proued by tâââoââe and deliuerie of a horse 499. It is not a Fearnbushe Ergo it is a Foxe 255. It is concluded in Louaine in great solemne sadnesse c. M. Hardinges Beaupeeres of Louaine 492. Your innumerable Louain Vanities 537. Your Louanian diuinitie
hath not iustified these three Vntruthes To shew a thing to be doubtful is not to clere it of al Vntruth The .13 and .14 vntruthes Lyra in Daniel cap. 14. As for the other two Vntruthes where he reporteth Lyra to saie that many Miracles are wrought in the Church by the Priestes and their Companions to mocke the people notwithstanding any thing conteined in his Replie they remaine vndischarged and appeare as impudent lyes and falsifiynges as before How falsly he demeaneth him selfe in that pretensed saying of Lyra it shal appeare to him that readeth my Reioinder fol. 8. b. c. The .15 Vnthruth The .15 Vntruth is that he ascribeth the briefe Commentaries vpon S. Paules Epistles printed with S. Hieromes workes vnto S Hierome which are wel knowen and by Erasmus whom he so muche esteemeth confessed not to be S. Hieromes M. Iewels Replie hereto is this They are printed saith he emong other S. Hieromes workes and are commonly knowen by his name but by any other Authors name they are not knowen Bastard vvorkes printed among the true vvorkes assundrie Authors If that were a good Argument to proue them to be S. Hieromes bicause they are printed emong S. Hieromes workes then were it easy to proue a number of treaties to be S. Hieromes S. Augustines S. Ambroses S. Chrysostomes S. Cyprians and other auncient Doctours of the Churche whiche are wel knowen not to be theires and M. Iewel him selfe would make no smal triumph against vs if we should allege any testimonie out of suche vnder the name of the Doctours emong whose workes they be printed For who is so simple that cannot thus reason as for example the Rule of Nonnes it is printed emong other S. Hieromes workes Regula Monacharum Inter opera HieroÌ Toââ 4. ergo it is S. Hieromes Item the treatie of the Inuention or finding of the Head of S. Iohn Baptiste is printed with S. Cyprians workes ergo it is S. Cyprians By this Argument you maie proue that the foolish epistle written to Abra S. Hilaries pretensed dawghter in the authoritie of whiche epistle you put great confidence for the defence of Priestes Marriages was S. Hilaries bicause it is pâinted with S. Hilaries workes So might the vnperfite worke written by some Heretique by Maximinus Arianus as some thinke vpon S. Matthew printed with S. Chrysostomes workes âe auouched to be S. Chrysostomes and so shuld we make that holy and Catholike Doctor an Author of sundry great heresies The like Argument might be made for proufe and legitimation of sundrie other bastard Treatises which to father vpon those learned Fathers emong whose workes they are printed and be not knowen by other Authours names were great iniurie I dare boldly say M. Iewel him selfe how so euer he thought good thus to shifte his handes of an Vntruth laid to his charge would be loth to allow this for a good Argument in his Aduersarie For if he would he is not ignorans what a comber he should haue to answer vnto thinges that out of suche writinges might against him be alleged Hitherto he hath not discharged him selfe of those fifteen the least Vntruthes that be in my Reioinder noted against him out of his very first Diuision of his Replie to the first Article What a doo he should haue to iustifie the rest with which he standeth charged by me and by other menne who haue dubbed him Lorde and Author of a thousand moe Vntruthes by his feeble Answer vnto these fewe of least appearance it is soone conceiued Now lette vs see how he iustifieth the Vntruthes of the Apologie M. Iewels pretensed Iustification of certaine Vntruthes of the Apologie with the Confutation of the same M. Ievvel the apologie Paââââ cap. 4. Diuis 2. The Councel of Carthage saith he prouided that no âisshop should be called either the highest Bisshop or the chief Priest Vntruthes noted out of the Apologie The first Vntruth To this he forgeth an Answer in my name and addeth vnto it suche woordes as whereby he thought to set forth vnto his reader a shewe of some lightnes of my parte whereas I answer him in deede otherwise as it may be sene in my Confutation part 2. cap. 4. fol. 53. c. For answer this may be here and is in effecte said there Whereas the Apologie hath thus Also the Councel of Carthage did expressely prouide that no Bishop should be called either the highest Bishop or chiefe Priest To this I saie that it is false and that the Councel of Carthage hath not so but otherwise It speaketh of Primates only and not generally of al Bishops and as it appeareth of the Primates only of Afrike And therefore the Bishop of Rome by that Councel is not depriued of his auncient Title of Summus Sacerdos This is more largely declared in my Confutation in the place aboue coted To this M. Iewel maketh his Replie in this wise The wordes of the Councel alleged by Gratian are these Primasedis Episcopus M. Ievvel allegeth Gratians vvordes for the vvordes of the Councel of Charthage non apelletur Princeps Sacerdotum vel Summus Sacerdos vel aliquid huiusmodi sed tantùm primae Sedis Episcopus Vniuersalis autem nec etiam Romanus Pontifex appelletur Why doo you allege Gratian M. Iewel whereas you might allege the Councel it selfe from whence Gratian tooke these wordes And so you founde the place thus coted in the end of the Chapter before Distin 99 Prouincia Item ex Concilio Africanâ 3. ca. 26. By this your shamelesse falshood appeareth For if ye had gonne vnto that Councel it selfe ye should not haue found these wordes at al neither in the Greeke for it is extant in Greeke nor in the Latine these wordes I say Vniuersalis autem nec etiam Romanus Pontifex appelletur Which are no more a parte of that .26 Canon of the third Africane Councel then those other wordes are there likewise folowing immediatly Vnde Pelagius secundus omnibus Episcopis They are put in by Gratian him selfe whereby as his manner is he fortelleth the reader what foloweth in the next chapter So this Vntruth is doubled with an other Vntruth and remaineth to M. Iewel as that to whiche he shal neuer be hable to answere Of this I shal haue occasion to treate more at large hereafter I wish the Reader for a further discouer of M. Iewels falshoode to peruse what there I shal saie M. Ievvel Apologie part 2. cap. 12. Item Calixtus saith he decreed The .2 Vntruth that Consecration being finished al the people should communicate c. To this I answer that it was the Decree not of Calixtus but of Anacletus and that the request of receiuing the coÌmunion the CoÌsecration being done perteined to the Priestes Deacons Subdeacons and other Clerkes attending vpon the Bishop celebrating the Sacrifice vpon a Solemne Feast and not vnto al the people Howbeit that the people did then commonly receiue euery daie whiche
Iohn is said to haue erred was onely touching the soules of the iuste and perfit who were fully purged before their departure hence in quibus nihil erat purgabile cuÌ de hoc seculo decesserunt as it is shewed in Pope Benedictus Decretale before mencioned or were purged elswhere Defence pag. 617. after the separation from their bodies So that by this Purgatorie is not taken awaie at al as your skoffing tale that liketh you so wel pretendeth it to be Neither were the Heretiques that of S. Augustine are called Arabici the first Authours of this errour as you saie but the Armenians and Grecians if we maie beleeue Guido M. Iew. Vntruly attributeth that to Pope Iohn 22. whiche was written of Iohn 23. Now touching that you haue alleged out of the Councel of Constance in Appendite as you cal it I maruel with what face ye bring it in And what a great falshed is it to put in your booke the name of Pope Iohn the. 22. for Iohn the. 23. who was not borne within a hundred yeres after Iohn the. 22. The name of this Iohn the 23. was before he tooke vpon him to be Pope Balthazar de Cossa as there ye haue it declared Neither was it certaine that he helde that detestable opinion touching the Death of the body and Soule together it was but brought into the Councel of Constance in a bille of complainte conteining many other heinous Articles against him whiche were not proued It was a matter of Diffamation it was not of probation as by the bill it selfe it is expressed For there ye finde these wordes In Appendice Concilij Constantien The said Iohn the. 23. was of these thinges diffamed greuously before the clergie and the people Therefore it is thus said there of his Acousers Denunciant dicunt ponunt si necesse erit probare intendunt c. They denounce saie and put and if it shal be necessarie they intende to proue They that accuse and intende to proue if neede be haue not yet proued And God forbid al thinges shoulde be taken as true whereof some be accused How so euer it be Iohn the. 23. is not Iohn the. 22. no more then Iohn Iewel is Iohn Capon Neither was that three and twentith Iohn a true Pope lawfully elect but an vsurper as two others were with him at the same time whiche were deposed al three at the Councel of Constance and a newe Pope chosen So by this place ye haue prooued no heresie against Pope Iohn the. 22. nor against any true Pope at al but onely haue shewed your selfe a shamelesse shifter and one that hath a more malicious minde to hurte the authoritie of the Pope then matter of iuste accusation against him M. Ievvel The Apologie Parte 6. cap. 6. Diuis 1. The Canonistes say the Pope can doe asmuche The. 7. Vntruth as Christe himselfe can doe To this I said it is false and sclaunderous M. Iewel replieth These wordes be most manifest and out of al question Extrà de translatione Episcopi Quanto Hostien Excepto peccato Papa potest quicquid Deus ipse potest Excepte sinne the Pope can doo asmuche as God him selfe can doo This is a most manifest and out of al question to vse this mannes owne wordes a foule corruption Certainely Hostiensis saith not so But bicause the Pope is the Vicare of Christe in earth and God ratifieth what so euer he doth in binding or loosing so it be donne duely and rightly Claue non errante as the Canonistes speake hauing reckened certaine thinges wherein the Popâ hath authoritie as vnder God and as Christes high officer he concludeth with these wordes Breuiter exceptâ peccatâ Ibidem quasi omnia de iure potest vt Deus Briefly excepte sinne he hath power as a man would say in al thinges of right as God Thus saith Hostiensis and not as M. Iewel belieth him And this saying being rightly vnderstanded is a true saying What soeuer the Pope doth or God doth by the Pope that is aboue the power and authoritie of man the same is he said to doo not as man but vt Deus as God bicause he doth it as being the Vicare of Christe as bearing the steede of God And therfore it is said by the learned Canonistes wherewith also M. Iewel beside learning Cap. Romana 1. respon de Appell 6. HostieÌsis fovvly corrupted by M. Ievv or reason findeth fault that the Consistorie of God and the Pope is one Consistorie as a Bishops and his Chancellours CoÌsistorie is one and the same CoÌsistorie Now let vs consider the impudencie of this false Minister First he auoucheth his shamelesse lye boldly as though where truth faileth for shew of proufe the matter might be stowted out The wordes saith he be most manifest and out of al questioÌ Excepto peccato Papa potest quicquid Deus ipse potest That is to say the Pope can do as much as Christ him self can do But what if these wordes be not most manifest Is it not then a most manifest impudencie so to affirme of them What if they be not out of al doubte Is it not then out of al doubte that this Minister is a Minister of lyes Certainely the wordes of Hostiensis be those very precise wordes which here I haue alleged and no other See then good Reader this mannes truthe whereof he so muche craketh First Hovv many vntrue partes M. Ievvel plaieth at once he corrupteth the sentence by leauing out sundry the Doctours wordes and telleth his tale for him in such wise as he may finde occasion to carpe him For he hath nipte away first this worde Breuiter which admonisheth the redaer to haue recourse to that goeth before then this worde Quasi which being added by good discretion mitigateth and qualifieth the saying that otherwise perhaps might seeme ouer vehement then againe those other wordes of necessarie importance otÌa de iure and vt Next he corrupteth the sentence by putting too of his owne those wordes besides Papa for which I greatly blame him not quicquid and Ipse and that by way of emphasie that the whole might seme the more absurd Besides al this he inuerteth the whole sentence and maketh of Hostiensis true and reasonable saying a blasphemous and âonde saying of his owne whereof that great learned man did neuer so muche as dreame And who woulde thincke that any man hauing his right witte woulde speake so vainely and so farre biyonde al sufferance of Christian eares that the Pope can doo as muche as God him selfe can doo And yet must al this be faced out and M. Iewel must haue leaue to saie it is most manifeste it is out of al question Who euer saw one litle poore sentence so nipte so hackte so hewed and mangled so turned and caste in a new molde And bicause it liked him wel that is to saie bicause it should mislike al good menne he hath made great stoare of
it and hath placed it in sundry corners of his bookes verely in his laste most vaine Defence of the Apologie in very many places With suche starres he geueth light to the congregations of his sect If this be not impudencie what is impudencie M. Ievvel The Apologie Parte 6. cap. 6. Diuis 1. The. â Vntruth Some of them haue said The Pope is the lighte that is come into the worlde And who so is an il dooer fleeth that lighte M. Iewel falsifieth the Answere that I make vnto this obiection by cutting awaye those wordes wherein the answer consisteth Confutatio 287. a. as it may be sene in my Confutation Thus there I say and the same here I say againe we answer you on the behalfe of Cornelius the Bisshop of Bitontâ in Italie Ioan. 1. that he neuer said The Pope is the lighte whiche should come into the worlde in that sense as it is spoken of Christe Neither is the Replie ye make directed vnto this answere For against the same ye haue in deede nothing to replie If that Bisshop in an Oration made at thâ Câuncel of Trent spake vndiscreetely where it was lawful for al to speake freely what they thought good as it is or at least ought to be in our Parlamentes in England what is that to vs Neither are we bound to iustifie euery mannes priuate tale nor if any speake perhaps at a time vnaduisedly can that stand you in any steede for defence of wicked Schismes and Heresies with whiche ye are charged Howbeit Cornelius the Bishop of Bitonto there spake not altogether as you english his wordes and his saying being fauourably expounded in a conuenient sense as doubtelesse he meant it may be tolerated M. Ievvel The Apologie Parte 4. Cap. 1. Diuis 1. The. 9. Vntruth They haue decreed that a Priest for Fornication ought not to be remoued from his Cure You haue fouly falsified my Answer hereunto M. Iewel And in your pretensed Defence ye haue cut of from my Confutation muche that maketh directly against you as ye haue done through your whole Booke Confut. fol. 158. a. See my Confutation who wil and he shal finde you proued a foule lier And who be they I praie you that haue thus decreed In your said Defence you are faine to flee to your commoÌ frende the Glose vpon the Decrees out of which ye serue your selfe of muche gay stuffe And what saith the Glose It saith thus Dicunt neminem c. Why M. Iewel dependeth your whole proufe vpon the Glosers dicunt that is vpon a They saie Ye tel vs they haue decreed and being required to shew it you send vs to the Glose and yet there ye haue no certaine Decree but an vncertaine dicunt Ye haue litle knowledge in your Canon lawe I perceiue as great a lawier as ye make your selfe and as great a lawier as he is to whom ye gaue the Archedeaconrie of Northwiltshire to thintent he among others mo shoulde helpe you in patching together the Aphorismes and peeces of your lying Bookes After this ye goo for proufe hereof from the Glose to the margent of the Glose It is pitie this manne hath not authoritie to make Gloses of his owne autheÌtical to proue his toies by and that the marginal notes maie not stand him in steede of substantial authoritie But at length there as also in your Replie in the view of your Vntruthes Panormitane is brought in and he a Gods name is my greatest Canoniste saie you whereas ye knowe wel ynough M. Iewel Extra De consangui affini NoÌ debet the Canon lawe is not my profession But what saith he Hodie ex simplici fornicatione Clericus non deponitur for simple fornication now a daies a Clerke is not deposed Why M. Iewel this speaketh but of the practise that theÌ was and your promise was to shew vs where it was decreed you forgete your selfe pardie Fornication pounished in the Clergie But sir vnderstand you what in the Canon Lawe is meant by depositioÌ Deposition what it is If ye think it is nothing els but a Priest to be remoued from his cure for so you take it you are deceiued For it is a farre more greuous pounishment Deposition by the definition of the Canonistes is a remouing of a Clerke from the ministerie of the Aulter for euer Panormitane by you alleged saith that now a daies a Clerke is not deposed for simple fornication as in olde time indistinctly he was deposed As you finde in cap. A multis Extra de aetate qualita ordinand Yea saith he in olde time euery mortal sinne was thought worthy of DepositioÌ Distinct 4 ca. erit auÌt lex By Panormitane a Priest coÌmitting simple fornication is pounished otherwise then by Deposition diuersly in diuers respectes For the whiche you are referred to the chapter At si Clerici Extra De iudic Where he treateth more fully of this mater and as it were of purpose There shal ye finde how he is to be pounished Canone Apost 25. C. Maximinianus 81. dist alijs capitibus eo tit Deposition of tvvo sortes And here to saie somewhat therof for the better instruction of the Reader In the Canons of the Apostles it is plaine and also in diuers other olde Canons that as for theafte periurie and other crimes so for fornication a Clerk of what order so euer he were should be deposed Deposition is of two sortes the one which is solemne and with terrour when not only by sentence a Clerke is depriued of his holy Orders though the character yet remaine but vnprofitable to the executioÌ of holy Orders but also in deede and actually his head is shauen his sacred ornamentes takeÌ away and then him selfe turned into laie apparel as Cranmar and Ridley were in Oxford This kind of Deposition is properly called Degradatio Degradatio which is not vsed but when the offenders faulte is so great that he is to be deliuered to the secular power to be pounished C. Nouimus ext de verb. signif c. 1. de haereticis libro 6. Depositio properly executed or to be walled vp for euer The other kinde of Deposition is which is done only by sentence without actual Degradation and that is called properly Depositio the whiche is here meant They that were thus by only senteÌce though not actually deposed froÌ the Clergie for their notorious and outragious offences were greuously pounished First it was a great losse to lose their Orders and dignitie of the Clergie Then also they lost al their spiritual liuinges and offices and al priuileges of Clerkes Besides this they were without al hope to be restored againe to the ministerie C. 1. cum 11. capit seq dist 5â And withal they were condemned to some streight Cloister there al their liues long to lamente and bewaile their offence and so to doo penance C. Sacerdos cum c. seq 81. dis But they
might receiue the blessed SacrameÌt of the body of Christe except they were stubborne and would not obey the sentence But sometimes in the Canons to be deposed signifieth Dicto Can. Apost 25. to be depriued of Ecclesiastical liuinges or to be suspended from execution of holy orders for a time Howbeit it is not oft so takeÌ but in the two significations aforesaid for depositioÌ froÌ holy Orders by senteÌce or for DegradatioÌ And no marueile though the old CanoÌs of the Apostles and decrees of auncient Fathers did so greuously pounish the Clergie for fornicatioÌ theaft periurie and other mortal sins For in the primitiue Church wheÌ the SuÌne of Iustice was vp at mid day and deuotioÌ hote sin was so much abhorred and pounished that to the very laie people that were Christians seuen yeres penance was wonte to be enioined and decreed by the lawe for euery mortal sinne C. hoc ipsuÌ 33. q. 2. c. praedicaÌdum in Glosa 22. q. 1. Distin 34. C. fraternitatis Ita decretum est in Concilio LaodiceÌsi Item in Carthaginensi 3. in 8. synodo vt in Gratiano .c. his qui cum 4. ca. ibi sequeÌt 26. q. 7. c. mensuraÌ de poeniteÌ dist 1. C. prasbyter 82. dis But in processe of time as the Deuotion and heate of Christian zeale decreased and the multitude of sinnes and sinners increased so these streight pounishementes and penances were mitigated For as Pope Pelagius saith Quamuis multa sint quae obseruari Canonicae iubet sublimitatis authoritas tamen defectus nostri temporis quo non solùm merita sed corpora ipsa hominum defecerunt districtionis illius non patitur manere censuram Although there be many thinges whiche the high authoritie of the Canons commaundeth to be obserued yet the defecte of our time is suche in whiche not onely the merites but also the very bodies of men be decaied that it wil not beare the censure of that olde streightnes to continue in force Therefore al penance in secrete Confession was at length referred to the arbitriment and iudgement of the glostly Father who should consider the contrite harte of the sinner and his weaknes and other circunstances and so enioine him suche penance as he thought sufficient And also withal this open pounishement of deposition for the open sinne of fornication in a Clerke was in Concilio Grangrensi changed into ten yeres penance to be performed after a very streight and austere maÌner and forme as that Councel prescribeth Which is so streight that if it were obserued now adaies M. Iewel should haue no cause to coÌplaine that the Canons did fauourably or to gently pounish fornication in the Clergie But though euery man ought to doo the best he can to doo satisfaction and to repente of his sinnes before God yet in the open gouernement and publike rule and policie of the world the lawe must be such and appoint such thinges as may be obteined and obserued of men and as the people and time beareth els it wil be quite conteÌned and trodden doune and be neuer a whit obserued The Ciuil lawe doth pounish adulterie with death L. Gracchus C. de adult but we see the coÌtrarie now euery where Yea it can not be established now in many Countries such is the state of the time and people Toto tit de cohab cler et mulier extra Therfore if the later Canons doo not so seuerely pounish fornication in the Clergie as the old Canons did we must rather beare it and lament it then be offended with it and reprehend it For such is the state of the time and the worlde that you maie rather wishe then establish to any good effect the rigour of the olde lawes and statutes both in ciuil and ecclesiastical rule But you shal neuer proue that the Churche winked at fornication in the clergie or that it did not the best it could at al times and now doth to extirpate this vice in euery sorte and degree of menne and especially in the Clergie as farre as possiblie it maie be and no farther For suche gouernement as can not take place in common weales we wil leaue to M. Iewel and his companions who go about with double brasen Canons and not by ecclesiastical CanoÌs to reforme the world as now in Fraunce it appeareth Looke and consider Concil TrideÌt Sessio 25. c. 14. in decret reformat what the Councel of Trent lately decreed against vicious and lewde Priestes that defile them selues with wemen and keepe concubines and you shal wel perceiue the Church doth al that maie be as the time now serueth to pounish and extirpate that foule faulte out of the Clergie which your Bishoppes and ministers in England maintaine openly keping in the face of the worlde their strompettes vnder the name of wiues contrarie to their othes vowes and solemne professions made to God and to the world and yet are they not ashamed to laie the mainteinance of this vice to the Catholiques charge Yea some of them be openly knowen that wil not sticke to come from vnlawful beddes yea from other mennes wiues and like sad prophetes steppe into the pulpites and there raile at the vnchaste life of Priestes and Votaries as they cal them M. Ievvel The Apologie parte 6. cap. 14. Diuis 1. The 10. vntruthe In the Councel of Chalcedon the Ciuile Magistrate condeÌned by sentence of his owne mouth three Bishoppes Dioscerus Iuuenalis and Thalassius for heretiques and gaue iudgement that they should be deposed That al these three saie I were condemned in that Councel we finde not Much lesse that they were condemned by any Ciuile Magistrate for Heresie doo we finde Confut. 315. b. Reade what foloweth in my Confutation To this M. Iewel maketh his Replie saying Concilij ChalcedoÌ Actione 1. pag. 831. These be the wordes pronounced openly in the Councel Videtur nobis iustum esse eidem poenae Dioscorum ReuerenduÌ Episcopum Alexandriae Iuuenalem reuerendum episcopum Hierosolymorum Thalassium reuerendum episcopum Caesariae Cappadociae subiacere a sancto Concilio secundùm regulas See the Defence pag. 683. ab episcopali dignitate fieri alienos That Dioscorus onely vvas condemned in the Councel of Chalcedon and that not by the Ciuile Magistrate but by the Bisshoppes This testimonie M. Iewel helpeth you nothing at al. Nay let it be truly englished and duely considered with the circumstance and it shal appeare to be quite against you and al together with vs. And therefore craftily in this place ye forbare to put it in English It semeth you sawe not the place in the Original but that you trusted your note booke For they were not only these three Bishops of whom it was thought iuste that they should be condeÌned but also three others for sixe there be spoken of by name For breuities sake Concil ChalcedoÌ Actio 1. pag. 831. colum 2. certaine wordes of lesse weight without altering of
the true sense leaft out thus I reporte you truly the wordes of the Councel of Chalcedon The honorable Iudges and Senatours said For asmuche as Flauianus of holy memorie and the reuerend Bishop Eusebius are found vniustly deposed it seemeth vnto vs good right that Dioscorus Bishop of Alexandria Iuuenalis Bishop of Ierusalem Thalassius B. of Caesarea in Cappadocia Eusebius B. of Ancyra Eustathius B. of Berytus and Basilius B. of Seleucia in Isauria who were the Captaines and rulers of that Councel at Ephesus where Flauianus and Eusebius were vniustly deposed should suffer the same pounishment à sancto Cancilio secuÌdùm regulas ab Episcopali dignitate fieri alienos asmuche to saie and that they should be put out of their bishoply dignitie by the holy Councel according vnto the Canons This is no sentence in iudgement pronounced against Dioscorus and the reste as M. Iewel taketh it Those noble laie men said what to them seemed iuste and right but by these wordes they gaue not sentence of condemnation or deposition They leaue that vnto the Councel by expresse wordes A sentence definitiue in iudgement standeth not in these or the like wordes it semeth to me or I think it good c But in these or the like I pronounce I condemne I âbsolue c. The sentence of Dioscorus condemnation for he only was coÌdemned al the other bishops were pardoned was solemnely pronounced in the Councel by Pope Leos Legates in the name and stede of the Pope Which thing I haue sufficiently set forth in my ConfutatioÌ Confutat pag. 316. where thou shalt finde Reader the sentence of condemnation expressed in English worde for worde as it was pronounced in the Councel And that very sentence is in the Councel Tomo 1. Concil Chalcedon Actione 3. pag. 8. Columna 2. Againe with what face could M. Iewel allege these wordes ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Euagrius lib. 2. ca. 4 ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Idem lib. 2. cap. 17. to proue that the Bishoppes were condemned by the Ciuile magistrate whereas those noble menne them selues said the contrarie that they iudged it right they should be depriued of their bishoply dignitie not by them or by their sentence but à sancto Concilio of or by the holy Councel and that according vnto the auncient Canons of the Churche Which wordes he might also haue founde fully reported in Euagrius in two sundrie places that there was no cause why he should so coÌfideÌtly tel me of the one of those places as he doth in the Defence pa. 683. Dioscorus deposed not by the Ciuil Magistrate but by the Councel of Chalcedon Act. 3. pag. 862. After that Dioscorus was condemned by sentence of Pope Leos Legates and consequently by al the bishoppes assembled in the Councel there was a solemne InstrumeÌt of his condemnatioÌ made and sent vnto him Where these wordes are by which it is cleare that the Councel condemned him and not the Ciuile Magistrate by sentence of his owne mouthe as M. Iewel vntruly reporteth Cognosce te ipsum propterea quòd diuinos Canones despexisti inobediens extitisti huic sancto vniuersali Concilio c. Octobris mensis praesentis tertiâ decimo die à sancto vniuersali Concilio esse ab episcopatu depositum ab omni Ecclesiastica fanctione submotum Bicause thou hast despised the holy Canons and hast benne disobedient vnto this holy and vniuersal Councel c. know thou that in the thirteenth daie of this present moneth of October thou art by the holy and vniuersal Councel deposed from thy Bishoprike and remoued from al Ecclesiastical function Lo M. Iewel al this was done not by the Ciuile Magistrate but by the Councel As for the Ciuile Magistrate to whom your Gospel committeth al by report of that Councel is so farre from condemning Bishoppes by sentence of his owne mouth that he may not so much as be present at the examinations in such a case Aske ye of me how I proue it Looke in that Councel and ye shal finde these very woordes Quando quaedam regularia examinantur neque Iudices Act. 3. pag. 838. colum 2. neque alios aliquos Laicos interesse oportet When certaine regulare matters that is to say touching the Canons or rules of life are in examination neither Iudges nor other laie menne must be present And as concerning the condemnation of Dioscorus when it was done or rather when it was a doing neither Martianus the Emperour nor his officers knew of it For said the Iudges and senatours vnto the Bishops in that Councel Actio 4. Pag. 872. colum 1. Dioscorus à vobis damnatus est ignorante Diuo Vertice nobis Dioscorus hath benne condemned of you without the knowledge of the Emperours Maiestie and of vs. Now if he had benne condemned by the ciuile officers I trow M. Iewel wil not say that they knew it not For if they condemned him they knew it But they knew it not The fiue other Bishops not coÌdeÌned when he was condemned ergo they did not condemne him Now touching the other fiue Bishoppes who with Dioscorus bare al the swaie in that wicked Councel of Ephesus of whom Iuuenalis was one and Thalassius an other It appeareth by the Councel of Chalcedon that they repented and reuoked their errour and so vpon sute made by the Bishoppes for them were admitted into the Councel and suffred to continue in their former roumes After the condemnation of Dioscorus and signification openly and solemnely made that al the Bishops agreed together in beleefe and after they had al subscribed to Dioscorus condemnation among other ioiful acclamations that were made according to the auncient manner this was one Iunenalis and Thalassius vvere not condeÌned In the CouÌcel of ChalcedoÌ Actione 4 pag. 872. colum 2. vttered by the Bishoppes Ipsi quinque Episcopi fidei subscripserunt Sicut Leo sic sapiunt The fiue Bishoppes them selues haue subscribed to the faith As Leo the pope thinketh and holdeth so they thinke and hold Hereupon the noble Iudges and Senatours said Piissimus noster Imperator c. Our most godly Emperour vnderstanding your petitions hath permitted vnto your arbitrement to deliberate of Iuuenalis Thalassius Eusebius Basilius and Eustachius the reuerend Bishoppes and to determine what soeuer it shal please you Your reuerence therfore knowing that ye haue to make accompt vnto God of these thinges thinke with your selues what is to be done with them Then Anatholius the reuerend B. of Constantinople said Petimus eos intrare Our request is that they may entre into the Councel Then al the Bishoppes cried rogamus eos intrare c. we praie that they maie come in who beleeue like as the synode beleeueth and holde as the synode holdeth Assint qui subscripserunt epistolae Leonis ad Synodum Let them be here that haue subscribed vnto the Epistle that Leo sent vnto the Synode The Iudges and Senatours said IntreÌt Let theÌ come
in So were they restored and held their former roumes And thereupon were made diuers cries in signification of ioy Thus it is euideÌt that Iuuenalis and Thalassius were not condemned by the Ciuile Magistrate as M. Iewel saith But M. Iewel allegeth Pope Leos Epistle to Anatholius the B. of Constantinople speaking of these Bishoppes to proue I cannot tel what Defence pag. 683. For thereof it can not be gathered that they were condemned by the ciuile Magistrate These be the wordes of Leo. De nominibus Dioscori c. Touching the names of Dioscorus Iuuenalis and Eustathius Leo epist 40. ad AnatholiuÌ not to be rehearsed at the holy Aulter it becoÌmeth you to kepe this muche By these wordes and the other that folow immediatly Leo required Anatholi to see that the names of those Bishops that had coÌsented to Dioscorus vnto the vniust condeÌnation of blessed B. Flauianus should not as the manner then was be rehersed at th'Aulter in the time of the Masse among other Catholik Bishops wherby they were praied for specially in that Church of CoÌstaÌtinople wher Flauianus had ben bishop Ibidem that so iniurie should not be donne saith he vnto the blessed memorie of Flauianus and that by so doing he should not turne awaie the mindes of the Christian people from his owne grace and fauour For how could the people gladly heare their names rehearsed in that Churche Iuuenaliâ not condeÌned in the Councel of ChalcedoÌ by Vvitnes of Leo Leo ad IuuenaleÌ epist 72. by whom the most worthy Bishop of the same Church was most vniustly condeÌned and deposed As for Iuuenalis the Bishop of IerusaleÌ Leo him selfe in his Epistle vnto him is a manifest witnes that he was not coÌdeÌned but restored againe vnto his Bishoprik For thus he writeth vnto him among other thinges Gauisus quideÌ sum quòd tibi ad Episcopatus tui sedem redire licuisset I reioised that it was made lawful for thee to returne home againe vnto thy Bishoprike Againe he saith vnto him eftsones there In tempore indulgentia resipiscentiam magis quà m pertinaciaÌ de legisti In the time when pardon might be obteined thou hast chosen amendement rather then stubbornesse Thus I haue sufficiently proued that the six Bishops M. Iewel not hauing sene the Original but trusting to an others note as it seemeth nameth but only three were not condemned of the ciuile Magistrate by sentence of his owne mouth but that Dioscorus and not one els was condemned and deposed not by lay Magistrates who gaue place to the Bishops in that case as I haue before declared but by sentence of the Popes Legates and by the Councel it selfe Now bicause M. Iewel taketh me vp very roundely in his pretensed Defence as if he had gotten a great coÌquest against me whereas after a huge number of shamelesse Vntruthes he chargeth me with many Vntruthes I wil here by waie of a briefe dialogue answere him reporting his wordes none otherwise then he him selfe hath vttered them speaking vnto me in his booke Iewel Defence Pag. 685. Novve shortly to consider the vvhole substance of your tale first ye say these three Bishops Dioscorus Iuuenalis and Thalassius vvere neuer condemned in the Councel of Chalcedon M. Iewels obiection of Vntruthes ansvvered This ye see is one vntruth Harding In deede I see it and graunt it to be an Vntruth But of your parte M. Iewel not of mine For as now ye see it by me sufficiently prooued onely Dioscorus the B. of Alexandria was condemned and that by the Councel not by the Ciuile Magistrate as you vntruly affirme Iuuenalis Thalassius and the other three in consideration of their submission and agreeing in beleefe vnto the Councel were pardoned admitted into the Councel and restored vnto their former roumes and dignities Iewel Secondly ye saie the Ciuile Magistrate neuer condemned them This is an other vntruthe Harding True it is it is an other Vntruthe But it is yours not myne For in deede as I haue before proued the Ciuile Magistrate did not condemne them but the Councel of Bishoppes condemned Dioscorus onely This being true it followeth that your contrarie saying is an Vntruthe Iewel Thirdly ye saie Iunenalis and Thalassius vvere rebuked for fitting as iudges in Councel vvithout the Popes authoritie These are tvvo other vntruthes Harding Ye are rise of your Vntruthes Of two I returne one backe vnto you againe For the reporte you make of my wordes is vntrue Looke better in my Confutation There ye shal finde me to speake otherwise not determinatly as you report but coniecturally thus Confutat fol. 316. a They might wel haue rebuke for misusing them selues in the seconde Councel at Ephesus where they sate like Iudges without authoritie of the See of Rome Al this considered with that I haue declared before touching this whole matter lââ the indifferent reader iudge yea one of your owne secte being learned if he wil take the paines to vewe and conferre al that I haue here written with the place in your pretensed Defence whether I had not iust cause to saie as I said in my Confutation what is Impudencie what is licenceous lying what is false dealing if this be not If I seeme ouer long Reader in this point the blame ought to be M. Iewels whose manifold Vntruthes and shamelesse shiftes vsed in his Defence to coloure this matter haue driuen me to vse more prolixitie then otherwise I woulde haue donne After this folow in M. Iewels View of his Vntruthes six mo Vntruthes whiche although he hath aduisedly chosen bothe out of my Reioindre and out of my Confutation as the easiest for him to make his answer vnto and to defende yet by ought he is hable to saie he hath not so iustified the leaste but that he maie yet stande charged The three vntruthes of the Apologie next folowing be of no great weight I confesse And therefore I wil not spend time about them Yet great malice maie lye hidde vnder smal trifles For the trial of them I referre the Reader to bothe our bookes The. 11. The. 12. The. 13. Vntruth Reioind fol. 251. b. The Apologie part 2 c. 13. d. 1. Apology part 2. c 1 Diuis 1. What I said of these wordes post finem orationum true it is and vntrue it is that M. Iewel saith Likewise Origen hath Ille Cibus that meate not ille Panis as M. Iewel vntruly alleged As for the place of S. Augustine whiche M. Iewel noteth in his 13. Vntruthe whether the worde be Oportet or Potest it is doubteful Bookes of diuers editions haue diuersly The point which by that place he woulde proue conteineth heresie So that though it were not an Vntruth in worde yet is it a great Vntruthe in sense and meaning M. Ievv The Apologie Parte 5. cap. 3. Diuis 11. The olde Councel of Carthage commaunded nothing to be readde in the Congregation but the Canonical Scriptures The. 14. Vntruth This olde Councel
the outward gouernment the being of a Head is common to Christe with others For in this respecte certaine others maie be called Headdes of the Church as in Amos the prophete the great states be called the Heades of the people So the Scripture speaketh of King Saul When thou were a litle one in thine owne eyes thou wast made Head emong the tribes of Israel So Dauid saith of him selfe he hath made me Head of Nations Amos. 6. 1. Reg. 15. Psal 17. Headship in respect of gouernement diuers in Christ and in menne * Left out by M. Ievvel In this sense the name of Head is attributed to princes and gouernours And yet not altogether so as to Christ First forasmuche as Christe is Head of al those that perteine to the Churche according to euery place euery time and euery state But menne are called Heades in regard of certaine special places as Bishoppes be called heades of their Churches Or in respect of a determinat time as the Pope is Head of the whole Church during the time of that calling And according to a determinate state euen so as menne be in the state of this mortal life for further stretcheth not this humanie Headship Againe the name of Head is attributed to Christe an other waie bicause Christe is Head of the Churche by his owne power and authoritie * Menne be called Headdes in asmuch as they be in steed of Christe and vnder Christe after whiche meaning S. Paule saith to the Corinthians 2. Cor. 2. For if I forgaue any thing to whom I forgaue it for your sakes forgaue I it in persona Christi in the person of Christe and in an other place we are Ambassadours in the steede of Christe 2. Cor. 5. euen as though God did exhorte you through vs. To conclude in fewe according to inward influence of grace into euery faithful member Christe onely is Head of the Churche according to outward gouerning the Pope vnder Christe and in steede of Christe is Head of the same These be my wordes there M. Iewel To whiche bicause you had nothing to saie you answer by your accustomed arte of mangling hewing awaie what liked you not by falsifying them and by putting in your owne selfe wordes in place of myne that teache the truthe And at length you fal to skoffing at my Logique making fonde and peeuish Argumentes of your owne forging bearing the simple reader in hande they are mine whiche God knoweth I neuer made nor no wise man elles For they are suche as of al that peruse your writinges you maie be knowen by them as a Begger is by his patched cloke or rather as a Vise is knowen by his Babul The greatest thing you saie is that al is myne owne tale that I tel and that I bring in no Scripture nor Doctour To this I answere Were it true that you saie as my Booke it selfe prooueth it false yet in this case my Yea hytherto is as good as your Nay and better too bicause it standeth with the vniforme Doctrine of the Churche Be it I allege no Authoritie of Scripture or Doctour to prooue the Pope Head bicause I am not yet comme to the place where I minde to prooue it Yet my case standeth as good as youres that bring neither Scripture nor Doctour to the contrarie If it had pleased you ye might haue founde bothe Doctours and Scriptures more The Rock of the Churche then you would gladly heare of in M. D. Sanders booke entitled the Rocke of the Church written for that behalfe and in M. Sapletons Returne written against your so many grosse Vntruthes and errours The Returne of Vntruths You crake muche of your great skil in Logique in comparison of other mennes ignorance searche out I praie you emong your rules of Logique whether Distinctio multiplicis in quaestione positi the Distinction of a worde that hath diuers significations placed in a controuersie ought not to goe before the disputation of the controuersie If it ought then haue I done rightly and orderly in that I made a Distinction of the terme Head before I entred to proue the Pope to be Head and you ignorantly and disorderly in calling vppon me to doo two thinges together against al good order of nature reason and learning or to doo the later before I had ended the former Testimonies auouching the Pope to be head of the Churche Peter the chiefe meÌber of the Churche Gregor li. 4. epis 38. Now bicause you be so hasty to haue some Doctour to proue that the Pope is Head somewhat to satisfie your hasty humour the Authoritie of S. Gregorie afterwarde alleged by your selfe maie suffice any wise man who calleth S. Peter the chiefe member of the Church which the Pope succeding in that right of Peter is al one with that we saie the Pope is Head in gouernment vnder Christe What difference I praie you can your wisedome put betwixte the chiefe member and a Head vnder an other or in the steede of an other Chrysost in Matth. homil 55. It is your happe alwaie to allege Doctours to your owne Confusion S. Chrysostome also witnesseth that Peter was such a Head saying of him Ecclesia Pastor Caput Piscator homo The fisherman by whom he meaneth Peter is the shepehearde and head of the Churche Againe he saith in an other place Quod si quis percontaretur Chrysost in Ioan. Hom. 87. quo modo Iacobus Sedem Hierosolymis acceperit responderem hunc totius orbis magistrum praeposuisse In case any man would demaunde of me this question how Iames came to haue the See at Ierusalem I would answere him that this Peter the Maister of the whole worlde made him Bishop there Lo Peter Maister of the vvhole vvorlde he calleth Peter the Maister of the whole worlde by whiche worde what elles signifieth he but that he was the Head touching spiritual gouernment of the whole worlde He saith furthermore and that most plainely in an other place Ieremiam Genti vni pater Chrysost Hom. 55. in Matth. hunc autem vniuerso terrarum orbi praeposuit God the Father made Ieremie the Head and Gouernour ouer one nation onely that was the nation of the Iewes but as for this man Peter made hed of the vvhole vvorlde by Christ to wit Peter Christe made him Head and Gouernour ouer the whole worlde Are you contented now Verely I haue folowed your minde willingly And if ye require mo the like testimonies of me I remitte you to the Answer Ansvver I made vnto your Chalenge Art 4. fol. 9. b. c. where you shal finde that maie satisfie any learned man touching this pointe Neither are you hable to auoide the plaine force of those testimonies for al the great a doo you haue made in your huge Replie Iewel Pag. 94. Ye saie S. Paule saith If I forgaue any thing for your sakes 2. Cor. 2. I forgaue it in the personne
what saie you M. Iewel Is there no difference betwixte a Bishop and a Prieste If there be why bring you S. Hierome to proue them both one If there be not S. Augustine shal laie to your charge that you are an Aerian Aerians which secte of Heretiques being otherwise Arians had their first name of one Aerius that was an Arian Priest The heresies of Aerius who bicause he could not be ordered Bishop beganne to teache certaine new heresies The first that there was no difference betwixte a Bishop and a Priest the nexte that no praier or Sacrifice ought to be made for the Dead the third that menne ought not to keepe the solemne and the accustomed Fastes of the Churche lest they should be vnder the lawe It shal be good for you and for your better purgation that you are not an Heretique of Aerius schoole to consider of S. Hieromes places better and seâke why S. Hierome spake those wordes who in other places folowing hath leaft a plaine difference betwixte a Bishop and a Prieste What discretion you haue in the vnderstanding of olde Authours as by you it appeareth where so euer you cal for healpe at their handes Hieron in Esai cap. 19. euen so it is seene most euidently in this place where you allege S. Hierome to proue that there be but fiue Orders in the whole Churche two of whiche neither S. Hierome nor any other olde writer euer tooke to be Orders as we speake properly of Order Ecclesiastical as it is a Sacrament hauing his necessary ministers to do dewties in the Church in the time of publique Seruice So you deceiue your selfe alwaies bicause you are so ignorant VVhat inconuenience maie folovv if in any question it shal be lauful for one to vse the diuers significations of termes at his pleasure Presbyter Diaconus Diabolus For I would be loth to saie it were malice that you see not how a terme that hath many significations is vsed whether it be vsed in his largest nature or in some proper and singular signification restrained You maie if you liste so to abuse termes saie that al Elders are Priestes as some times you doo bicause this worde Presbyter importeth the signification both of Priestes and of Elders that euery Magistrate secular is a Bishop bicause he is an ouerseer whom Episcopus signifieth that euery seruant is a Deacon bicause Diaconus signifieth a Minister that euery il man that is a quareller is the very Deuil him selfe bicause Diabolus signifieth a quareller If you wil not see and take a daie better to consider when Authours doo vse termes in some large significations and when they vse them properly in significations restrained from the Generalitie your folie wil be suche er it be longe that euerie man shal see it In the allegation of S. Clement I thinke verely you groped and sensibly fealt your owne folie where he saith Clemens Epist 2. De Con. Distinct 3. Tribus gradibus that the Sacramentes of the Diuine secretes are committed vnto three Orders vnto the Priest vnto the Deacon and vnto the Minister You sawe plainely that S. Clement named expressely three Orders distincte and yet you saie that Deacons and Ministers as touching the name are al one This place of S. Clement ioyned with your owne Confession that Deacons and Ministers Minister touching the name are al one wil inforce you to confesse that termes are diuersly restrained from their generalitie without apposition or addition at al as the terme Minister whiche is general must needes signifie some distincte Order diuers from the Deacon Emong al the Authorities that you haue brought if you had alleged any that by naming of any number of Orders had therewith excluded al other that had not ben conteined within the same you had brought somewhat to helpe your cause Pag. 97. S. Hierome S. Clement S. Dionyse as their matter and occasion serued spake of certaine holy Orders that haue preeminence in the Churche as the Bishop the Prieste the Deacon the Minister or Subdeacon but they neuer so spake of these principal holy Orders that either they expressely excluded or meant any exclusion of the lower Orders Wherefore al your talke and stoare of Testimonies are to no purpose as beinge vtterly wyde of the matter you shoulde proue Pag. 97. It pleaseth here your ministerly grauitie and great wisedom first to scoffe out al the lower or inferiour Orders whose offices our Sauiour Christe him selfe executed in his owne person and therfore to kepe Order within the Churche whiles the sacrifice of the Masse was celebrated or any other Sacrament ministred the three lower Orders were decently placed the doore keepers Inferiour Orders the Exorcistes not Coniurers M. Iewel by your licence whiche terme now in English conteineth an infaime as the lawes made against them do witnesse the Acolutes the Readers As touching the pleasure you take in scoffing Pag. 97. 98. solacing your selfe therewith in this place we can not muche woonder that you mocke and ieast at Petrus Lombardus a man farre passing you in vertue and learning seing your scorneful head could not refraine from scoffing at S. Clement the holy Martyr of Christe that liued in the Apostles time and was appointed by S. Peter to be his successour in the See Apostolique and spare not to scoffe out the Order of Deacons who tooke place in the very Apostles time You would gladly to delite your folowers for a time make them beleeue that the Deacons office was for no other purpose but to holde a fanne in their handes to keepe of flies from the Communion Cup and yet that scoffing head of yours doth knowe that the Deacons had an office more proper vnto their Order then that and yet that office as base as your mery head would it should appeare considering to whom that seruice was donne to wit that nothing should chaunce vndecently about the precious bloud of Christe vpon the Aulter coÌsecrated was in dignitie farre passing the highest office that is donne in the presence of the honourablest wordely Prince that is And wil ye see the great witte of the man After that he hath made mery with his good felowes his Disciples and scoffed at the office of the Deacons at Patrus Lombardus that holy and learned Bishop at S. Clement that blessed Martyr at the origine and foundatio of al the lower Orders as one that had quite forgotten what fonde partes he had plaied at length he commeth in confessing plainely that sundry of the Offices of the lower and inferiour Orders in the Primitiue Churche were appointed to very good and sober purposes And yet the man would haue them al suppressed in the ende bicause Ostiarius now keepeth not the excommunicates out the Acolute waiteth not on the Bisshop the Exorcistes caste not out Deuilles the Reader openly pronounceth not the Scriptures the Deacons prouide not for the poore yea bicause the Bishop preacheth not the Gospel And
wel done of you to take some litle paines to searche out who of you was the first author of that famous lie against the Catholique Bishoppes The false bruite of king HeÌries body taken avvaie that to bringe them in displeasure with the Quenes Maiestie whiche now is reported that they had taken awaie kinge Henrie the eightes body whiche matter after great bruite spred aboute the Realme after that it came to be searched was tried false and forged and the body was founde safe where it had benne laied But the body of king Henrie the sixth that holy man King HeÌrie the sixth his body taken vp and consumed was not founde in his place but said to haue benne burnt by certaine I wil spare their worshippes of Catholique religion I warrant you There is a wiued Superintendent in England that if he be asked can tel tidinges how these thinges were conueied But al thinges ye doo are wel donne and worthie of praise Yet what an impudent lye was that deuised against the Catholique Bishoppes And what an hainous deede was it to violate the Graue to take vp a good Kinges Body and to burne it or otherwise to consume it Yet bicause they that are of your fecte did it it must be praised though it be donne against al good Order Religion and humanitie To be shorte as you are not hable to defende al thinges as wel donne that ye and your felowes haue donne euen so we haue not taken in hande to defende the innocencie of euery Pope in al actes of his life nor yet to take the Popes wil and pleasure to be our staie in al doubteful cases as you impute vnto vs. But the Popes aduised and mature determination folowing the aduise of his learned Doctours assembled together for discussion of weightie matters in general Councelles whiche is an other thing then the Popes wil and pleasure whiche your scoffing head would haue to be our staie we take to be a sufficient resolution of al doubtful cases that are necessarie for vs to knowe Iewel Pag. 100. Hovv be it this I trovve is not the readiest vvaie to procure peace and to mainteine vnitie in the Churche Harding Vnitie is best mainteined by the gouerment of one general Head The .13 Chapt. If the hauing of one king or Prince be the readiest waie to procure peace and mainteine vnitie in worldly matters of a Realme why should not the hauing of one general Head be the readiest waie to procure peace and vnitie in the Churche If that be not the waie you leaue vs none at al. If euery man take that Religion that liketh best his owne phantasie as many doo in diuers partes of the worlde already who shal cal them backe to the true Catholique Religion Iewel And therefore Gregorie saith of Iohn the Bishop of Constantinople that claimed to him selfe this vniuersal povver c. Harding What neede we bestowe moe wordes about this matter of Iohn of Constantinople Iohn the ambitious Bishop of Constantinople claimed the title of vniuersal Bishop M. Stapleton hath answered fully vnto it This Iohn claimed to him selfe the title of vniuersal Bishop meaning thereby that there was no Bishop in the worlde but he whiche title in deede S. Gregorie in that sense coulde not brooke but tooke it to be arrogant and proude And we saie as we haue alwaies said that no Pope euer claimed the title of vniuersal Bishop in that sense that there ought none others to be Bishoppes but he And yet S. Gregorie claimed the right title of the Primacie apperteining to his See in his answere made to Mauricius the Emperour as Platina recordeth And S. Chrysostome Chrysos in Matth. homil 55. in illa verba Ioh. 21. Sequere me homil 87. Aug. de vera religione cap. 45. as we said before doth not spare to tel al Christian menne that to Peter was committed the Charge and Cure of the whole worlde Iewel For although al the vvorlde either vvould or could geue eare and credite to one man yât vvere not that therefore alvvaies Christian vnitie S. Augustine saith Pride it selfe hath a certaine desire of vnitie and of vniâersal povver Harding What should moue you to allege S. Augustine De vera religione against the vnitie of the whole Churche obeying their vniuersal head Did S. Augustine speake any thing of the Pope in that place What so'euer affection there be of Pride or Singularitie in the ruler it toucheth not others but disgraceth his personal actes onely I meane in respect of his owne person not of others who doo but their duetie in obeying what he teacheth or biddeth being their general gouernour or head And in that duetie doing what soeuer the rulers affection is in gouerning they keepe Christian vnitie iâ Faithe Matth. 23. and Doctrine Vpon the chaire of Moyses the Scribes and Pharisees haue sitte al thinges what so euer they tel you doo ye saith Christe If Christe bad vs to obey the Scribes and the Pharisees as long as they sate in Moyses chaire although their life agreed not with their doctrines what can the Popes il affection of pride hurte the vnitie of Christian menne who doo their duetie in obeying his lawful power Iewel Pag. 100. An other of M. Hardinges reasons is this The Churche labouring here in earth must resemble the Churche of the Saintes triumphing in heauen But in heauen God onely is the gouernoure ouer the vvhole Therfore in the Churche beneathe the Pope likevvise must needes be gouernour ouer the vvhole Thus God must be rated to gouerne aboue and the Pope beneath and so as one some time saide Diuisum imperium cum Ioue Caesar habet Harding You falsifie my wordes and reason my terme is not Must but Meete Shewe it not to be meete Leaue you skoffing and come to the matter Euery good thing is the worse that cometh into your handes Iewel Pag. 100. This is a valiant kinde of argument It holdeth from heauen to earth from angelles to menne from God to the Pope Harding Wel skoffed M. Iewel It was not for naught that the Prophete Dauid in the description of a blessed man saith emong other thinges Psal 1. that he sitteth not in the chaire of Mockers by whiche worde Heretiques are signified which in deede are very skoffers and mockers of al good thinges And weene you good Sir ⪠that an argument maie not holde from heauen to earth Thy wil be donne in earth as it is in heauen Vpon these wordes if you list Matth. 6. maie ye not frame an argument that shal holde from heauen to earth Now from Angelles to menne Videte ne contemnatis vnum ex his pusillis dico enim vobis Matth. 18. quia Angeli eorum in coelis semper vident faciem patris mei qui in coelu est See ye despise not one of these litle ones For I saie vnto you that their Angelles in heauen doo alwaies see the face of my Father whiche
Father euer thus scanned the vvordes of the popes commission Or vvhy doth M. Harding auouche so great a matter of him selfe onely vvithout farther Authoritite c. Harding Feede my Sheepe are wordes of Peters commission to gouerne the Churche and the same is proued by the Fathers You tel my tale in suche wise The .17 Chapt. as you maie best make the matter seeme weake and sclender First I thinke good here to set before the reader who is now made iudge of this controuersie myne owne wordes as I vttered them my selfe Then I shal the better frame my Answer to that you obiecte Thus I saie Where these Defenders âonfât fol. 46. a. as others the Aduersaries of this vnitie saie that Christe is this one shepheard this one Head who is so Christe is the principal Head and of him selfe the Pope is the Ministerial Head and vnder Christ aÌd for Christ Math. 28. 1. Pet. 2. A man is necessarie to doo Christes steede of outward gouernment in in the Churche The necessitie and institution of the Head of the Churche Genes 32. Num. 12. we denie not Shepeheard of his flockâ Head of his body Bridegrome of his spouse Prince of hiâ kingdome as it is before declared yet saie they therein nothing to the disproufe of the catholique doctrine touching vnitie of the Head which is in steed and ministerie of Christ For whereas the Father hath geuen to Christ al power in heaueÌ and earth so as he only is the King Head ruler Iudge of al the Pastour and Bishop of our soules and therefore they whiche we acknowledge to be Kinges Headdes Rulers iudges Pastours and Bishoppes in earth be his Vicares Lieuetenantes Vicegerentes and Ministers al this power by what name so euer it be called being suche as is exercised and administred by his worde neede it is that for asmuche as Christe now dwelleth not with vs in visible presence his Churche haue one man to doo his steede of outwarde ruling in earth by his worde to administer al that is behooful and to performe the duetie of the head in respecte of the bodie Now that Christe is not conuersant with vs visibly as he was with his Disciples before his passion and preacheth no more vnto vs with his owne mouth sensibly to atteine the vnderstanding of his wil we maie not looke to haue God appeare vnto vs as he did vnto the Fathers of the olde Testament to speake to vs as he did to Moyses face to face mouth to mouth as the Scripture saith to sende vs his Angel as he did to the Virgine Marie to instruct vs with visions from Heauen Luc. 1. Actâ 10. 2. Cor. 12. as he instructed Peter to take vs vp into the thirde heauen as he tooke Paule there to heare the secretes of his wil but it behoueth vs to be content for the working of that whiche remaineth to be done touching our Saluation with suche order as hath pleased him For it is manifest that Christe perfiteth al the Sacramentes of the Churche He it is that baptizeth he it is that forgeueth sinnes he is the true priest that hath offered him selfe on the Crosse and by whose power his body is daily consecrated and offered on the Aulter Yet bicause he would not remaine in visible presence with al beleeuers he chose menne to be his Ministers by whom the forsaid thinges should be done and ministred to them By like reason forasmuch as he would take froÌ the Churche his corporal and visible presence it behoued some one man to be put in CommissioÌ for bearing the charge and taking care of the Churche in lieu and steede of him selfe For this purpose before his AscensioÌ he said to Peter whose loue he had tried and found to be most feruent aboue al others feede my shepe and before his Passion Thou being againe coÌuerted strengthen thy brethren Iohan. 2â Luc. 22. Math. 16. And to him specially he said by promise To thee wil I geue the keies of the kingdome of heauen thereby to shewe that the power of the keies should be deriued to others by him for the better keping of the vnitie of the Churche Now let it be iudged with what substantial learning you haue coÌfuted this doctrine If it had not ben sounde and such as clearely openeth what we meane The former vvordes of my Confutation lefte out of M. Ievvelleâ Defence when we cal the Pope the chiefe Pastour and supreme Gouernour of Christes Flocke doubtelesse you would not haue leafte it out of your booke For you making a shewe as though you had printed my whole booke againe and so confuted it take onely that pleaseth you and leaue out what seemeth to hard for you to answere mangling disordering and confounding my whole treatie to thinââââ it may beare the lesse face of learning and of good proufâ of the thinges I intreate of which is a foule practise nâuer vsed by any lerned man hitherto And yet you would men to beleeue you deale truly and plainely in laying foorth my Confutation Yet here hauing nothing to saie elles least you should seeme to geue ouer you demaund of me what auncient Father euer thus skanned the woordes of the Popes Commission or why I haue auouched so great a matter of my selfe without farther authoritie Thus when I bring Fathers you cal for Scripture when I allege Scripture M. Iewels vvaie to continue vvrangling Iohan. 21 you aske what auncient Father euer vnderstode it so or why I dare so handle the Scripture so ye wil be sure not to lacke mater of wrangling what so euer I saie Yet thus I answer It is no hard peece of worke to proue by sufficient authoritie that these wordes Pasce oues meas feede my sheepe spoken to Peter and in him to his successours In Math. Homil. 55 in Iohan Homil 87. Grego lib. 4. epi. 32. Pascere gaue Peter and his successours Authoritie gâneral to gouerne the whole Churche S. Chysostome treating vpon these wordes saith as it is before alleged that the charge to rule the whole worlde was geuen to Peter and coÌsequently to his successours S. Gregorie saith the same as is before rehersed Pascere is not a word that signifieth to feede only as you know but also to rule and gouerne and therefore Homere calleth King Agamemnon ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã the Pastor that is to say the ruler of the people And that it may appeare that I auouche not this matter and applie the place of S. Iohns Gospel to it of my selfe onely without farder Authoritie as you say it may please you to heare S. Ambrose teaching the same and in manner with the same woordes that I vsed writing vpon the .24 Chapter of S. Luke thus he saieth Ambro in cap. 24. Lucae Iohan. 21. Dominus interrogabat non vt disceret sed vt doceret quem eleuandus in coelum amoris sui nobis velut Vicarium relinquebat Sic enim habes Simon Ioannis diligis
me vtique tu scis Domine quia amo te Dicit ei Iesus pasce agnos meos Bene conscius sui non ad tempus assumptum sed iam dudum Deo cognitum Petrus testificatur affectum Quis est enim alius qui de se hoc facilè profiteri possit Et ideo quia solus profitetur ex omnibus omnibus antefertur Our Lorde asked that question of Peter whether he loued him not to learne but to teache him whom being to be lifted vp into heauen he leaft vnto vs The Pope is leaft to vs as the Vicare of Christes loue tovvard vs. as the Vicare of his loue that is to saie in plainer termes such a one as should be in steede of Christe in those thinges that for his tender loue towardes vs he would vs to haue For euen so thou hast in the Ghospel Simon the sonne of Iohn louest me Yea verely thou knowest Lorde that I loue thee Iesus saieth vnto him Feede my lambes Peter here knowing right wel the secretes of his owne conscience professeth that his good affection whiche he bare to Christe was not nowe entred into him for the present time but that God knew it long before For who is the man elles that may soone professe this much of him selfe And therefore in asmuch as he onely of al professeth it he is preferred before al. Lo M. Iewel by this you maie see I spake not of this matter altogether of myne owne head and without farther autoritie S. Ambrose saith in effect so much as I said That Christ for so much as he should ascende into heauen and withdrawe his visible presence from vs leaââ behinde him for our behoofe S. Peter as Vicare of his loue Nowe of this I may conclude for so muche as Christe who died for our loue and redemed vs with his bloude ceasseth not to loue vs that he leafte not onely Peter to be the Vicare of his loue for his owne life only but also Peters Successours for euer that is to saie the Popes for other Peters Successours we knowe not Arnobius likewise vnderstaÌdeth this supreme charge and auctoritie to be geuen vnto Peter and therefore consequently vnto Peters Successours applying the same texte of Scripture to that purpose These be his wordes Arnobius in Psalm 138. Iohan. 10. Iohan. 21. Nullus Apostolorum nomen Pastoris accepit Solus enim Dominus Iesus Christus dicebat ego sum Pastor bânus iterum me inquit sequunturoues meae Hoc ergo nomen sanctum ipsius nominis potestatem post resurrectionem suam Petropoenitenti concessit ter negatus negatori suo hanc quam solus habuit tribuit potestatem None of the Apostles hath receiued the name of Pastor or shepeheard For our Lorde Iesus Christe alone said I am a good Shepeheard And againe my shepe saith he folow me So then this holy name and the power of the name our Lorde after his resurrection gaue to Peter being repentant and being thrise denied he gaue the auctoritie whiche he had alone vnto his denier Peter by the three fold coÌmaundement of feeding muste feede al sortes of the Flock the laÌbes the youÌg litle Sheepe and the great Sheepe S. Ambrose according to the worde of coÌmission spokeÌ to Peter thrise repeted feede feede feede noteth three degrees of authoritie to be exercised in feeding Iam non agnos vt primò quodam lacte vescendos nec oniculas vt secundò sed oues pascere iubetur perfectiores vt perfectior gubernaret Now that is to say when Christe said at the thirde time Feede Peter is not commaunded to feede lambes that are to be fed with a certaine milke as at the first time nor is he commaunded to feede the litle sheepe as at the second time but the Sheepe he is commaunded to feede that the perfiter should gouerne them that are of the perfiter sorte That learned Father S. Leo saith Leo epist ad Episcopos per prouinciaÌ Viennen constitut Cùm Petro prae caeteris soluendi ligandisit tradita potestas pascendarum tamen ouium cura specialius mandata est Whereas the power to loose and binde was deliuered vnto Peter aboue the reste yet the charge of feeding the Shepe is committed to him more specially The same S. Leo saith of Peter in an other place Non solùm Romanae sedis sed omnium Episcoporum nouerunt esse primatem As for Peter they knowe him not onely to be chiefe ruler of the See of Rome but also the Primate of al Bishops Peter primate of al Bisshoppes Serm. 2. in Aniuers Assumpt What shal I allege S. Gregorie whose woordes be most manifest He acknowlegeth S. Peter and therefore euery Bishop of Rome his Successour to haue the charge of the whole Churche by coÌmission of Christ alleging to that purpose the wordes for alleging of whiche you blame me as though I did it of mine owne selfe without farther authoritie Thus he saith Epist 32. Cunctis Euangelium scientibus liquet c. It is euident to al that knowe the Gospel that the cure and charge of the whole Church hath ben committed by the word of our Lorde to the holy Apostle Peter prince of al the Apostles For to him it is said Peter Ioan. 22. Luc. 22. louest thou me feede my shepe to him it is said Beholde Sathan hath desired to sifte you as it were wheate and I haue praied for thee Peter that thy faith faile not Math. 16. And thou being once conuerted strengthen thy brethren To him it is said Thou ãâã Peter and vpon this rocke I wil builde my Churche and the gates of Hel shal not preuaile against it And vnto thee I wil geue the keies of the kingdome of Heauen And whatsoeuer thou bindest vpon earth shal be bound also in heauen and what so euer thou lowsest on earthe shal be lowsed also in heauen Beholde he receiueth the keies of the heauenly kingdome the power of binding and lowsing is geuen to him the charge of the whole Churche and principallitie is committed to him And here I wil adde that foloweth in S. Gregorie tamen vniuersalis Apostolus non vocatur and yet he is not called the vniuersal Apostle least M. Iewel finde great faulte with me Replie 225. as he doth in his Replie for leauing it out and least once againe he feine that I haue the Chinecoughe and that I set S. Gregorie to schoole Gregor lib. 6. epistol 37. and keepe him in awe and suffer him not to tel more then I wil geue him leaue and many suche gaie good morowes that needed not at al. The same S. Gregorie writeth in much like sorte to Eulogius Bisshop of Alexandria Leauing al other Fathers that might here to this purpose be alleged Bernardus lib. 2. de Consideratione for breuities sake I wil ende with S. Bernarde who writeth thus to Eugenius Other pastours haue their flockes assigned vnto them eche man one
al the Christian worlde specially for condemning of the Pope bicause his supreme Authoritie can not beare with sundry your errours and Heresies as against any man in the worlde besides The force of your argument is this Wee maie not beleeue Paule him selfe if he speake any thing of his owne Head thereby to condemne Priestes for their liuing Ergo Peter hath no more authoritie ne no more power to rule then the other Apostles O M. Iewel cal in these argumentes for shame of the worlde why suffered you them to escape your penne That S. Paule said somevvhat of his ovvn 1. Cor. 7. But how saie you Sir Shal you not finde where S. Paule spake of his owne some thing Haue you forgotten who said NaÌ caeteris ego dico non Dominus For to the reste I saie not our Lorde and yet you must beleeue him if you denie not the Scripture Againe saith he not some thing of worldly reason as you haue translated humanum Rom. 6. where he writeth to the Romaines Humanum dico propter infirmitatem carnis vestrae I speake as one that foloweth the trade of mannes reason for the infirmities sake of your fleshe I trust you wil be intreated to beleeue him Thus how discretely you bring in the Fathers to speake for you I neede not to declare Your owne bad stuffe sheweth it at large The Apologie Cap. 3. Diuis 5. pag. 108. And as Hierome saithe Al Bishoppes vvhere so euer they be be they at Rome Ad Euagrium De Simplicitate praelator be they at Eugubium be they at Constantinople be they at Rhegium be al of like preeminence and of like priesthood And as S. Cyprian saithe There is but one Bishoprike and a peece thereof is perfitely and vvholy holden of euery particular Bishop Confutation My lady the Interpreter not without the wil and aduise of this Defender hath altered the sense of the latine as the author of the Latine hathe altered the wordes of S. Hierome For neither speaketh S. Hierome of Bishoppes in the plural number neither saith the Latine Apologie that the Bishoppes be al of like preeminence whiche this translation hath but of the same merite and of the same Priesthood c. Iewel Pag. 109. Here to dissemble these childish Cauillations of the altering of Numbers the Singulare into the Plural and of the changing of this vvorde Merite into this vvorde Preeminence vvhiche great faulte if it vvere any by M. Harlinges ovvne Confession proceeded only from the Interpreter and not from the Authour c. Harding Dissemble hardely M. Iewel what ye liste so that with al ye confesse the truth that you are not hable honestly to discharge your selfe of that whiche you passe ouer by dissimulation Suche dissembling shiftes serue your turne not seldome as the which you caÌ sooner vse then against the truth shape a reasonable answere But leauing aside your dissimulation Tel me I praie you where finde you that euer I confessed that the faulte of chaunging this worde Merite into this worde This vvorde Merite changed by M Ievvel into this vvorde Preeminence Preeminence proceded only from your good lady the Interpreter and not from the Authour Haue not I in plaine wordes tolde you the contrarie Haue I not laid the fault as much vpon the Authour that allowed the Interpretation as your good Maistresse M. C. saith in her epistle as vpon the Lady Interpreter How then can you deliuer the Authour from al blame by myne owne Confession Looke better M. Iewel vpon the booke againe where if you shal finde no suche Confession of myne but the plaine contrarie remember who is not ashamed openly to auouche Vntruthe But it wil not be otherwise you haue by long practise gotten a ful perfite habite thereof Iewel Pag. 109. VVhat S. Hierome meant hereby Erasmus a man of great learning and iudgement expoundeth thus Hieronymus aequare videtur omnes Episcopos inter se c. Harding Erasmus answered Difference founde betwen Deacon and Priest in Order and betwen Bisshop and Bisshop in power of gouernment And is Erasmus in deede a man of suche learning and iudgement The .28 Chapt. as you say If he be howe happeth it that you condemne those articles of religion which he confesseth true He agnised the real presence of Christes body and bloud in the blessed Sacrament of the Aulter whiche you denie Erasmus against the false Gospellers Aduersus PseudeuaÌgelicos fratres inferioris Germaniae Howe happeth it if he be a man of great learning that he wrote so earnest an epistle against the false Gospellers so he calleth them of your side of which number you are How happeth it that he wrote that vehemeÌt and long Epistle to the Brothers of the Inferiour Germanie coÌmonly called the Lowe countrie to beware of al such heresies whiche you and your felowes do now professe If Erasmus be not such a one as you say why do you allege his autoritie whose iudgemeÌt in sundry articles ye contemne But what hath Erasmus to helpe you in this matter Truely when al is searched nothing at al. Yet by the waie it is to be marked that you would binde vs with Erasmus authoritie a man of our time whom your selfe in diuers Articles as in the approbation of the Masse of the real presence free wil and of such other do greatly dislike yet you wil not sticke to denie vtterly not only the autorities of the Fathers within these last nine hundred yeres but also of them sometimes that wrote within the first six hundred yeres For so do you deale afterward with that holy and great learned Father S. Leo whom you labour to discredit being pressed with the witnesse he geueth of the prerogatiue of the See Apostolike of Rome as though his desire were Pag. 111. as your false surmise is to enioie as great honour as he could for his owne time Haue you no better meane to auoide that Fathers authoritie M. Iewel but by charging him with ambition Where Erasmus saith Erasmus in Antidoto post Scholia in epist Hieronym ad EuagriuÌ that S. Hierome seemeth to put in equal matche al Bishoppes together as if they were al equally the Apostles Successours that parte of his saying you could wel remember but where he saith within fiue lines folowing that the Metropolitane hath a certaine dignitie and Iurisdiction aboue other Bishops whiche taketh awaie the equalitie that you dreamed of your eyes without being called on that parte of the sentence were very loth to see Take the one with the other M. Iewel then is the equalitie of Bishoppes in regiment quite gonne though they remaine equal in the order of Priesthood and in that that the highest Archebisshop in the worlde yea the Pope him selfe is no more a Prieste nor Bishop then is the poore Bishop of Eugubium or who so euer is the lowest Bishop in the worlde though his authoritie to rule and to gouerne be more ample and large then
any others Reade the olde Fathers in suche sorte that you may vnderstande them without mistaking their right and purposed meaning then maie you cite them both to your owne honestie and to the commoditie of others The errour of one Falcidius One Falcidius a foolishe man vtterly deceiued went aboute to preferre as S. Hierome of him to Euagrius seemeth to reporte or to matche in one equalitie as S. Augustine saith the order of Deacons with the order of Priesthood For suppression of whiche errour the rather to abbase the Deacons vanitie August in Quaest veter no. Testam Quest 101 S. Hierome disputeth that in diuers places of the Scripture in certaine respectes Priestes are taken for Bishoppes and Bishoppes for Priestes so that if the Deacons be aboute the Priestes sith the Scripture doth cal Priestes by the name of Bishoppes it wil folowe that Deacons should also be aboue Bishoppes Which absurditie is so euident as no man maie graunt it Therefore for the auoiding of this absurditie whiche would followe vpon Falcidius false assertion it behoued him and suche as helde with him vtterly to reuoke that errour that Deacons are either aboue Priestes That a Priest is aboue a Deacon or equal with them A Priest maie doo al that a Bishop doth saue that he can not geue Orders A Deacon can not doo al thinges that a Bishop doth saue onely the geuing of Orders for he can not consecrate the body and bloude of Christ in the blessed Sacrament Ergo the Priest that hath more power then the Deacon must be aboue the Deacon This is S. Hieromes very drifte in that Epistle to Euagrius with the whiche meaning of S. Hieromes your authour Erasmus doth wel agree Erasmus in Antidoto post Scholiam in epist ad EuagriuÌ where he writeth thus vpon the same Epistle Itaque quòd hic aequat humilium vrbium Episcopos cum alijs ad Diaconos est referendum qui nonnullis locis praeferebantur presbyteris quos propemodum aquat Episcopis Where as he doth here equally matche the Bisshoppes of the meaner Cities with other that are Bisshopps of great Cities it is spoken for the Deacons sake who in certaine places were preferred before the priestes whom almost he maketh Bisshoppes felowes And againe In hoc igitur aequales sunt Episcopi presbyteri quòd vbicunquesunt Diaconis sunt praeferendi Touching this pointe Bishoppes and Priestes are equal for that they are to be preferred before Deacons where so euer they be But that there is greate difference in authoritie of gouernement betwixte Bishoppes ' Priestes and Deacons S. Hierome is plaine in the laste sentence of that Epistle where he writeth thus Et vt sciamus traditiones Apostolicas sumptas de veteri Testamento quod Aaron filij eius atque Leuitae in Templo fuerunt hoc sibi Episcopi Presbyteri Diaconi vendicent in Ecclesia And that we maie knowe the Apostles Traditions were taken out of the olde Testament what Aaron and his Sonnes and the Leuites were in the Temple Bisshoppes Priestes and Deacons maie chalenge to them selfe the same in the Churche But Aaron being the high Priest and Bisshop was in auctoritie farre aboue al the rest Ergo if Priestes be named in Scripture Bisshoppes as S. Hierome reasoneth against their folie that preferred Deacons aboue Priestes There is one Bisshoppe founde out that ought to haue special rule ouer al the reste and that by a consequent of the very Scripture Whereas S. Hierome condemned the lewde disorder of the Citie of Rome not of the Churche of Rome as M. Iewel vntruly interpreteth which he saith is one with the Churche of the whole worlde keeping one rule of truth with the rest for hauing Deacons in more honour then Priestes and putteth the mater to be tried by authoritie saying that the authoritie of the vniuersal Church of the whole worlde with the which the Church of Rome is one is rather to be folowed then the corrupte manner and custome of that one Citie there is no reason why he should seeme in that place to haue vsed the word Merite Merite for Preeminence after M. Ievvelles iudgement for this worde Preeminence as M. Iewel ful vainely iangleth and can not prooue His seely argumentes stande thus The authoritie of the worlde that is to saie of the vniuersal Churche of the whole worlde and therefore of the Churche of Rome also being One Churche with the reste is greater then the authoritie of the Citie of Rome Ergo the worde Merite in the nexte sentence folowing must signifie Preeminence Againe the power of riches and the basenesse of pouertie maketh not a Bishop either higher or lower Ergo the worde Merite in the sentence before muste signifie Preeminence This is strange Logique by vse whereof euery foole maie seeme to reason wisely if it were once allowed in open schooles The vvorld is more theÌ the Citie expounded Whereas S. Hierome to Euagrius speaking against the euil custome of Rome where a Deacon was preferred before a Prieste saieth Si authoritas quaeritur Orbis maior est vrbe If wee seeke for Authoritie the worlde is more then the Citie he meaneth not as the circumstance of that Epistle geueth that authoritie there should signifie authoritie in gouernement as M. Iewel hath interpreted making S. Hierome to saie that in Authoritie of gouernement the whole worlde is greater then the Citie of Roome whereby he thinketh to displace the Pope and to depriue him of his authoritie in gouernement and to bestowe it confusely abroade in al the worlde whereof in deede the Confusion whiche they may beste holde and stande by might be procured The truthe is S. Hierome there is not to be vnderstanded to speake of the Churches authoritie in gouernement but of common and publique authoritie to be folowed for auoiding of that errour that made a Deacon better then a Prieste or at least equal with a Priest In Controuersies we folowe authoritie Now saith S. Hierome If we seeke for authoritie the worlde is greater then the Citie As who should saie let no man defende the errour by the authoritie of the Citie of Rome bicause there a Deacon is preferred before a Prieste for what shal we esteme the custome of one Citie the whole world holding the contrarie And the authoritie of no one Citie can be coÌparable to the authoritie of the whole worlde Therefore pretending one to obiecte vnto him that the manner was at Rome for a Priest to be ordered at the testimonie of a Deacon he saieth Quid mihi profers vnius vrbis consuetudinem what bringest me foorth the custom of one Citie As who should say Neither at Rome vvas more honour geuen to Deacons then to Priestes it were not to be regarded in coÌparison of the custom of the whole world Nowe that the Churche of Rome gaue not greater honour to Deacons then to Priestes by S. Hierome him selfe it seemeth to be euident for so
muche as Priestes there sate in the Church where Deacons vsed to stande and the Deacons neuer durste to sitte emonge the Priestes Hiero. in eadeÌ epistol ad eÌuagriuÌ whiles the Bisshop was present Although he confesseth that once in the Bishoppes absence he sawe a Deacon when disorder tooke place sitting emong the Priestes and at priuate Feastes in priuate houses geuing the benediction to Priestes Whereby it is manifest that the preferring of Deacons aboue Priestes rose not of any ordinarie custome of the Churche of Rome where al states best keept due order in the Bisshoppes presence but of the priuate pride of some Deacons and of the simplicitie of the people of that Citie Therefore S. Hierome saith not Quid mihi profers Romanae Ecclesiae consuetudinem why bringest me forth the custome of the Romaine Churche but Quid mihi profers vnius vrbis consuetudinem Why bringest me the custome of one Citie The ignorant people made more of the Deacons Euseb lib. 6. Eccles histor ca. 33. bicause they were but fewe in number to wit but only seuen at one time as Eusebius maketh mention whereas at that time there were six and fortie Priestes in that Churche whom the people as S. Hierome saith for the number had in contempte Vbicunque fuerit Episcopus siue Romae siue Eugubij siue CoÌstantinopoli siue Rhegij siue Alexandriae siue Tanis eiusdem meriti eiusdem est sacerdotij Beholde Reader how M. Iewel hath translated this sentence Where so euer there be a Bisshop be it at Eugubium be it at Rome be it at Constantinople be it at Rhegium be it at Alexandria be it at Tanis they are al of one worthinesse they are al of one Bisshoprike Where the nominatiue case Episcopus Bishop being of the singulare number so placed by S. Hierome with the verbe Est also of the singular number bicause it serued not M. Iewels turne guilfully in translation a change is made into the plural and thereby the meaning of the sentence cleane altered to thintent the sentence might so the rather sounde to his purpose whiche is to make al Bishoppes equal in authoritie of rule and gouernment Now S. Hieromes wordes doo signifie that a Bishop is of the same Merite and of the same Priesthood whether he be Bishop of a great Citie or of a litle And here is to be noted that M. Iewel can not yet brooke this worde Merite and whereas before he vsed the worde Preeminence being by me admonished of it now he translateth eiusdem est meriti they are al of one worthinesse Likewise he termeth eiusdem sacerdotij of one Bishoprike for of one Priesthood How so euer you bring in S. Hierome for the equalitie of Priestes with Bishoppes it forceth not It is wel knowen S. Hierome neuer dreamed of suche an equalitie as you would haue when he wrote this sentence Ecclesiae salus in summi sacerdotis dignitate pendet Hieron aduersus Luciferainos cui si non exors quaedam ab omnibus eminens detur potestas tot in Eccesia efficientur schismata quot sacerdotes The sauegarde of the Churche dependeth vpon the dignitie of the highest Bishop vnto whom if a peerelesse and supreme power be not yelded there shal arise so many Schismes in the Churche as there be Priestes If God haue a special regarde to the safetie of the Churche and if the Churche can not be safe without there be a peerelesse and a supreme power yeelded vnto the highest Priest whiche is a Bishop as S. Hierome saith what so euer M. Iewel saie to the contrarie God must needes allowe the hauing of suche Bishoppes as shal haue power peerelesse to rule their flockes not onely their lambes but also their sheepe to witte the Clergie the Priestes and the Deacons vnder them Hieron Lib. 1. aduersus IouinianuÌ He saith also Propterea inter duodecim vnus eligitur vt capite constituto schismatis tollatur occasio Therefore is there one chosen emong the twelue saith S. Hierome who should be made Head that the occasion of Schisme might be taken away And that we should be put out of doubte who chose that one to be Head aboue al the reste and why Peter was rather chosen then Iohn that was so deerely beloued S. Hierome saith delatum est aetati partly in consideration of his age and partly bicause he would deliuer Iohn from the enuie that he should haue incurred if he had benne placed in that roome being so yong a man M. Iewel had neede to looke better vpon his booke and to learne by these places better to tempre the other sayinges of S. Hierome S. Hierome saith vnitie can not be kepte the Churche can not be in sauegarde Schismes can not be suppressed by equalitie of Priestes with Bishoppes Ergo there must be Bishoppes that shal haue power to rule the Priestes and the reste Thus M. Iewels equalitie wil not stande with the doctrine of S. Hierome Although saith S. Augustine after the names of honours now vsed in the Church the state of a Bishop be greater August Epist 19. then the state of a Prieste yet in many thinges Augustine is lesse then Hierome Notwithstanding we ought not to refuse and disdaine to be corrected of any man though he be our inferiour Vpon these wordes of S. Augustine M. Iewel reasoneth that the difference of power and authoritie betwixte Bishoppes and Priestes had no allowance from Scripture but by the custome of the Churche As though one thing could not be allowed both in Scripture and also by the common custome of the Churche The common custome of the Churche teacheth vs to feare God daily doth not the Scripture allowe the same To honour our Father and mother And doth not the Scripture commaunde the same But M. Iewel would faine make debate betwixt the custome of the Churche and the holy Scripture and therefore ful prouidently he hath interlaced a Parenthesis of his owne politike deuise in this manner The office of a Bisshop is aboue the office of a Prieste not by authoritie of the Scriptures but after the names of honour whiche the custome of the Churche hath now obteined I haue here before declared that there was a secte of Heretiques calles Aerians as S. Augustine reporteth who denied that there was any difference at al betwen the state of a Bisshop and the state of a Prieste August de Haresib ad Quoduult deuÌ Haeres 53. whiche opinion being accompted for heresie by S. Augustine ought to stop any reasonable mans mouth and to persuade him that S. Augustines opinion is quite contrarie to that which M. Iewel holdeth Iewel Pag. 1â1 As for Pope Leo his ovvne authoritie in his ovvne cause can not be great The Emperour saithe Nemo debet sibi ius dicere ff Li. 2. de Iurisdict omniuÌ Iudicum 16. q. 6. Consuetudo in margine No man maie minister lavve vnto him selfe And it is noted thus in the Decrees Papa non
debet esse iudex in causa propria The Pope maie not be iudge in his ovvne cause Harding The Pope maie be iudge in the cause of the Churche Though Leos Authoritie be not greate in his ovvne cause The .29 Chapt. yet in the cause of the Churche being so auncient so holy so learned a Father by your owne graunt it must be very great The wordes you bring are of your owne forging Wherefore as ye haue hitherto benne a forger of Doctours Scriptures the Canon lawe and Gloses so now you are become a forger of the Ciuile lawe With what wordes the lawe is written here anonne you shal see But be it true that Vlpian said for so you should haue said The Emperour alleged for Vlpian and not the Emperour as your skil in the lawe vnskilfully telleth vs no man maie minister lawe vnto himselfe Yet neither he not the Emperour euer forbad but that a man maie truely reporte of his owne matters Now Pope Leo that holy man and great learned Clerke in the place by me alleged doth not minister lawe vnto him selfe in his owne cause but for the better gouernement of the Churche and that peace and good order maie the better be kepte in the Churche reporteth a difference or diuersitie of power to be emong Bishoppes with likenesse of Order and honour as S. Hierome in his epistle to Euagrius coÌfesseth them to be of one merite and of one Priestehood In declaring whereof he speaketh of the right that the Bishoppes of the See Apostolique S. Peters successours ought to haue in the gouernment of the vniuersal Church through out the whole worlde This M. Iewel was not his owne priuate cause but the cause of the whole Churche in whiche he might geue iudgement But M. Iewel guilfully seemeth to put the case as though there had ben many Catholiques that called Pope Leo to lawe for vsurping the authoritie not dewe vnto him and as thoughe he had ben defendant against them al yea as thoughe he had stepte vp into his iudgement seate and there sitting as a Iudge in his owne mater had pronunced sentence for him selfe Whiche thing he did not nor euer was there any catholique man that laid any suche kinde of vsurpation to his charge he neuer stoode as defendant nor sate as Iudge in his owne cause but discretely and truely as occasion serued signified vnto the worlde his lawful authoritie and his âuccessours as Kinges vse to doo in their titles of honour and stiles If M. Iewel wil calle his double wiued lawier vnto him and with him peruse the lawe that beginneth Qui Iurisdictioni praeest neque sibi ius dicere debet â Qui iu risdiccioni ff de iurisdict omn. iudic neque vxori vel liberis suis c. whiche is the true lawe that he should haue alleged and wil consider that Princes Kinges and Emperours vse to doo in their owne causes by very order of lawe and if he wil therewith searche out the right meaning of the lawe L. in priuatis ff de inoffic testamen In priuatis iudicus pater filium vel filius patrem iudicem habere potest he shal finde both that he hath fondely vainely and rashly alleged a lawe that he vnderstoode not nor made any thing to his purpose but onely to fil vp paper with wordes and also that it is one thing to saie Nemo debet sibi ius dicere as he falsely allegeth the Lawe and that it is a farre other thing to saie Qui iurisdictioni praeest neque sibi ius dicere debet neque vxori vel liberis suis neque libertis vel caeteris quos secum habet For so is the lawe vttered by Vlpianus As for your marginal note out of the Decrees you shew how barrein and poore your mater is that for defence of it you are faine to runne for helpe to notes put in the margent of the Glose a very poore shifte God wote To your marginal note I answere The Pope as there the Glosse saith if there be a mater in lawe betwen him and an other man about a temporal thing ought not him selfe to be iudge in that case and to take the thing into his owne possession before it be tried whose it is but to choose Vmpeeres to sitte vpon it Now marke what followeth good Reader 16. q. 6. Consuetudo tamen si vult esse Iudex in causa Ecclesiae potest esse yet if he list to be a iudge in a mater concerning the Churche he maie be Certainely no one thing more concerneth the wealth tranquillitie and good order of the Churche then that whiche Leo intreateth of in the epistle 84. to Anastasius the Bishop of Thessalonica whiche in my Confutation to good purpose I alleged Iewel Pag. 111. Concil Aphricanum cap. 105. Superbum seculi typhuÌ It is vvel knovven that the Pope hath sought for and claimed this vniuersal authoritie these many hundred yeres Pope Innocentius vvas therefore reproued of pride and vvorldely lordelinesse by the vvhole Councel of Aphrica Harding The Aphrican Councel vntruly reported by M. Iewel The 30. Chapt. The Pope hath not sought for that whiche our Lorde gaue vnto S. Peter no more then S. Peter sought for it at Christes graunt The fame he maie iustely claime for so muche as it perteineth to the feeding and gouernement of Christes flocke and to the strengthning of the faithful as being the Successour of S. Peter That you saie of Innocentius is vtterly false He was not so reproued of pride and worldely Lordelinesse as more like a proud worldely Lordeling then an humble plaine handler of Goddes Truthe you saie Neither be those wordes superbum seculi typhum which you laie forth in your Margent to be founde in any Epistle of the Aphrican Councel to Innocentius nor be they spoken or written at al against Innocentius as you beare vs in hande Neither was Innocentius then a liue when the Aphrican Councel was holden but departed this life long before I graunt there is extant an epistle of the Aphrican Councel to the learned Pope Coelestinus in whiche Epistle Innocentius that blessed man is not once touched Neither was the charitie of that whole Councel so smal as to speake so il of a holy Bishop so long before departed The manner of those Fathers was to praie for suche specially for the Bishoppes of Rome deceassed rehearsing their names in their Masses and in no wise to reporte so il of them How be it in that whole epistle Pope Innocentius is not so muche as once named nor spoken of There we finde these three wordes fumosum typhum seculi that is to saie the smoky pride of the worlde or the vaine stoutenesse of the temporaltie but in a farre other sense and to an other purpose then M. Iewel pretendeth Whether he rightly vnderstode the place or no I haue good cause to doubte It seemeth that the Bishop of Rome in the cause of Appiarius whom
the Aphrican Bishoppes had deposed and remoued from his Bishprike for crimes not sufficiently proued sent his Clerkes that were his Agentes in Aphrica vnto certaine noble menne of the Countrie bearing offices vnder the Emperour to require their assistence if neede should so require whiche is as muche to saie as now we vse to speake as implorare brachium seculare to cal vpon the temporal power for helpe that iustice maie be executed With this the Aphrican Bishoppes did muche mislike and therefore besought Pope Coelestine that it should no more be donne but that maters might be ended by them being Bishoppes of that prouince without al intermedling of the laie power The wordes of the epistle are these Concil Aphâican cap. 105. Executores etiam clericos vestros quibusque potentibus nolite mittere nolite concedereâne fumosum typhum seculi in Ecclesiam Christi quae lucem simplicitatis humilitatis diem Deum videre cupientibus praefert videamur inducere Furthermore we beseche you that you sende no more your Clerkes that be your Agentes vnto any of the great menne and that you graunt to no suche thing hereafter leste we should seeme to bringe the smoky or vaine stoutenesse of the worlde into the Churche of Christe whiche to them that couete to see God sheweth forth the light of simplicitie and humilitie This is the Vntruthe you make vpon the Aphrican Councel in reprouing Pope Innocentius of pride and worldely Lordelinesse fully answered Now as vow haue brought an vntruth against the Pope out of the Aphrican Councel as you pretend so maie it please you to consider of the contrarie reported in the behofe of the Popes supreme authoritie in gouernment out of a Councel of Aphrica where we finde the same autoritie with these wordes auouched and acknowleged Maximè tustè debent Episcoporum iudicia negotia ecclesiastica ab ipso praesulum examinari vertice Apostolico Epist Stephani trium CoÌciliorum Aphrica ad Damasum PapaÌ Con. 10. 1. cuius vetusta solicitudo est tam mala damnare quà m releuare laudanda Antiquis enim regulis censitum est vt quicquid horum quamuis in remotis vel in longinquo positis ageretur prouincijs non prius tractandum vel accipiendum sit nisi ad notitiam almae sedis vestrae fuisset deductum vt eius authoritate iuxta quod fuisset pronunciatum firmaretur The iudgementes of Bishops and ecclesiastical maters ought most iustely to be examined of him that is the Apostolike toppe or the crowne of the head of the Prelates whose care it is of olde as wel to condemne il thinges as to releeue good thinges For it hath ben decreed by the olde Canons that what so euer matter of the Bishoppes were in sute though it were in prouinces that be farre of from Rome it should not be ended before it were brought to the notice of that your See that it might be assured by the authoritie of the same right so as the sentence in iudgement should be pronounced By these wordes and by the whole Epistle of the Fathers of that Aphrican Councel assembled together vnder the Archebishop Stephanus it appeareth euidently how reuerently they submitted them selues and the determination of their causes and controuersies vnto the Pope and how farre of they were from the outragious sprite as to charge Innocentius or any other Pope with pride and wordely lordelinesse as M. Iewel hath fained Iewel Pope Bonifacius 2. condemned S. Augustine and al the said Councel of Aphrica and called them al heretiques and Schismatiques Inter decreta Bonifacij 2. Instigante diabolo for the same and said they vvere al * leade by the Deuil Pope Zosimus to maintaine this claime corrupted the holy Councel of Nice Harding Bonifacius 2. Fowly be lyed The .31 Chapt. It is pitie this man hath not a good mater For where he maketh so muche of nothing what would he doo had he somewhat But it is easie to saie muche in a naughty cause for one that is not a shamed to lie It can not be founde among the Decrees of Pope Boniface the .2 vnto whiche M. Iewel referreth vs nor any where els that he euer condemned that blessed and learned Father S. Augustine by name nor the Councel of Aphrica by any solemne sentence pronounced against them Verely that he called them al Heretiques and Schismatiques for the same that is to saie for the Popes vniuersal authoritie or for any thing and that they were lead by the Deuil it is an impudent lie The most greuous wordes he vttereth against them are these in an Epistle that he writeth to Eulalius the Patriarch of Alexandria exhorting him to reioise and to geue warning to other Bishoppes neare vnto him to reioise also and to geue God thankes for that the Churche of Aphrica was reconciled and returned to the obedience of the Churche of Rome from whence they had seuered them selues for the space of a hundred yeres vpon some stomake as it appeareth for that they would not admitte any Appellations of the Bishoppes of Aphrica to be made vnto the Pope whiche authoritie the Pope claimed by a Canon of the Nicene Councel CoÌcil Sardicen ca. 7 Bonifac. 2. Epist ad EulabiuÌ CoÌcil to 1. pag. 1057. and likewise by a Canon of the Councel of Sardica Aurelius Carthaginensis Ecclesiae olim Episcopus cum collegis suis instigante Diabolo superbire temporibus praedecessorum nostroruÌ Bonifacij atque Coelestini contra Romanam Ecclesiam coepit Aurelius some time Bishop of the Churche of Carthage beganne with his felowe Bishops the Deuil intising them to be proude against the Churche of Rome in the daies of Boniface and Coelestine my predecessours c. Of Heretiques and Schismatiques here is not a worde And though he said the Deuil intised them yet wil it not folowe that al they were leadde by the Deuil The Deuil intiseth many yea whom doth he not intise to euil Yet al be not leadde by the Deuil To be intised of the Deuil is one thing to be leadde is an other Touching Pope Zosimus saie what ye can folowing your Maister Caluine and when ye haue said al that ye can saie it is wel knowen ye shal neuer clearely proue Caluine Institut Cap. 1. that he corrupted the Councel of Nice For this I referre the Reader to M. Stapleton in his Returne of Vntruthes vpon M. Iewel Articulo 4. fol. 30. sequentib Peruse the place Reader and thou shalt finde thy selfe wel satisfied touching this pointe That whiche there is said in defence of Zosimus against their sclaunderous reportes M. Iewel should first haue disproued if he had minded in that mater to trie out the truthe and then haue laied it againe in our waie But he ful craftily dissembleth al and maketh as though he had not seene any such thing therby bothe to encomber vs with ofte repeating of one thing and the reader with hearing that whiche hath ben
said before Iewel Pag. 111. S. Hilarie and other learned Bishoppes of Fraunce for vsurping suche vnlavvful auctoritie charged this same Pope Leo of vvhom vve speake vvith Pride and ambition Harding What a man this Hilarie was and how vnworthy to be called S. Hilarie The 32. Chapt. An ââpudent and craâty lye This is bothe an impudent and also a crafty lye Impudent as being suche wherein M. Iewel him selfe knewe he lyed For al is vtterly false For neither this Bishop Hilarie as euil a man as he was nor any other Bishoppes of Fraunce for ought that M. Iewel hath to shewe charged Leo with pride and ambition for vsurping vnlawful autoritie Leo epist 89 ad Episcopos prouincia Viennen In deede he is reported of Leo to haue spoken arrogant wordes against the reuerence of S. Peter But what the wordes were or that he laid pride and ambition to Pope Leos charge M. Iewel hath nothing to allege Muche lesse can he proue it of the other learned Bishoppes of Fraunce Leo contrariwise hauing hearde the complaintes of the great disorder and outrage of this Bishop Hilarie charged him with a strange pride and immoderate ambition for vsurping vndew autoritie For as it is cleare by that epistle of Leo wherein this mater is laid forth this Hilarie tooke vpon him to exercise the Iurisdiction of the Metropolitanes chalenging vnto him selfe the ordinations and making of Bishoppes of al the Churches in Fraunce He vniustly depriued Celidonius of his Bishoprike He besides al right and reason deposed Protectus lying sicke in his bed and set an other bishop in his roome whereby he seemed besides the breache of the Canons to haue don very cruelly and to haue sought the shortening of his life He rode vp and downe in the Countrie of Fraunce as the people complained of him like a light person much vnlike a Bishop and ranne from place to place with a companie of armed Souldiers to be the better hable to put his vnlawful attemptes in execution if any resistance should haue benne made Al this notwithstanding M. Iewel calleth him S. Hilarie wherein he vseth crafte S. Hilarie a vvicked man saincted by M. Ievvel bicause he despised the Pope for which this maie be wel called a crafty lie For who is there specially of the vnlearned that hearing the name of S. Hilarie would not thinke that famous Father and learned Doctour S. Hilarie the Bishop of Poitiers to be meant For none beareth that famous name of S. Hilarie but he Thus can M. Iewel to helpe forth his Gospel abuse the name of Gods Saints and make a Rebel a proude an arrogant and ambitious vsurper of other mennes right a Saint Of suche Saintes they haue Canonizate vs good stoare Thus he would gete credite to his doctrine that impugneth vnitie vnder the false colour of the name of a blessed Saint Wherefore good reader let not M. Iewel beguile thee with the name of S. Hilarie who as he died long before this Hilarie was borne so he was alwaies obedient to the see of Rome as who graunteth that S. Peter for the confession of the true faith deserued to haue Hilar. do Trinit li. 6 Vltra humanae infirmitatis modum supereminentem locuÌ a place of authoritie passing al other beyonde the measure of humaine infirmitie whereas this Hilarie that M. Iewel speaketh of was a violent vsurper of others right a seditious troubler of the vnitie of the Church and otherwise an il man and suche a one as against whose vniust and violent doinges the godly and discrete Citizens of certaine Cities in Fraunce directed their commoÌ lettres vnto Pope Leo to haue refourmation And thus is the forged matter of this Hilarie newe sainted by M. Iewel truly answered Ievvel Pag. 111. But gentle Reader that thou maist the better vnderstand vvhat credite thou oughtest to geue to this Pope Leo specially setting forth his ovvne authoritie I beseche thee consider vvith vvhat maiestie of vvordes and hovv farre aboue measure he auanceth the authoritie of S. Peter These be his vvordes Christus Petrum in confortium Indiuiduae vnitatis assumpsit Leo Epist 89. Leo Epist 52. Christ receiued Peter into the companie of the indiuisible vnitie Authoritate Domini mei Petri Apostoli by the Authoritie âot of Christ but of my Lorde Peter the Apostle Deo inspirante beatissimo Petro Apostolo By the inspiration of God and of S. Peter the Apostle c. Leo. 89. Harding These Phrases of Leo defended and iustified It is happy that once you haue mette with an olde Father within the first six hundred yeres The 33. Chapt. whose wordes are so plaine for the preeminence and supremacie of the See of Rome that you could not possibly finde any probable Glose to auoide them Being therefore destitute of a directe answer you goe about to finde faulte with the manner of vtterance that Leo vseth And here you are sore offended with the maiestie of wordes with which he extolleth the authoritie of S. Peter Whiche certainly be no other then maie be founde in diuers other auncient learned Fathers Touching the first sentence you should haue laid it forth truly as it is in the Doctour then would it appeare to conteine no such immoderate nor ambitious dignitie as you finde faulte withal The wordes of Leo are these Petrum in consortium indiuiduae vnitatis assumptum Leo epist 89. Matt. 16. id quod ipse erat voluit nominari dicendo Tu es Petrus super hanc Petram adificabo ecclesiam meam c. Christe willed Peter taken into the companie of his indiuisible vnitie to be named that thing which he was him selfe saying Thou arte Peter or Rocke and vpon this Rocke I wil builde my Church What is that wherewith a ChristiaÌ man should here be offended O say you Leo maketh Peter receiued into the coÌpanie of the indiuisible vnitie I graunt M. Iewel But what indiuisible vnitie meaneth he First al vnitie is indiuisible For where there is a Diuision of a thing into two three or moe Peter receiued into in diuisible vnitie vvith Christ there is not vnitie but multiplicitie Now there is vnitie of Substance and vnitie of qualitie S. Peter is not reported of Leo to be assumpted into the felowship of vnitie of Substance or of nature with Christe the Sonne of God for so he should haue made him equal with God as Christ is for nothing is of one Substance or coÌsubstantial with God but that which is God Which God though he be three in Persons yet is one in Substance Into this indiuisible vnitie of Substance Peter is not receiued which ful deuilishly you would the Reader to conceiue and imagine to be the meaning of S. Leo in those wordes Into the coÌpanie of the indiuisible vnitie of a qualitie or grace or name with Christ S. Peter was assumpted that is to saie Christ gaue him a qualitie a grace a name that is proper to him selfe What is
Againe there a litle after They that returne from Schisme and Heresie if they were in holy Orders before they became schismatikes they do not receiue holy Orders againe but either they do minister that which they did minister if the profite of the Churche do so require or if they minister not yet do they beare the SacrameÌt of their holy Orders stil and therefore the handes are not laid vpon them among the laie sorte Hitherto S. Augustine What hath M. Iewel to saie vnto this If S. Augustine saie that an Heretique or a Schismatique doth not lose the Priestehoode that he had lawfully before he fel into Schisme or Heresie shal M. Iewel control him with his newe Diuinitie and saie vnto him no sir it is not so For if a Bishop be negligent and doo not his duetie I saie he loseth his Order or Bisshophoode and is no more a Bishoppe M. Iewels il lucke is that whereas he readeth many Fathers or some others for him and heapeth a number of their sayinges together to fil vp a great booke neuer a one can be found that when any mater commeth to trial maketh clearely for his side No marueil For truth can neuer be made to serue against truth Iewel Pag. 117. As for VVicklefe he expoundeth plainely his ovvne meaning c. Harding Hus mistaken for Wicklefe a Canon of the Councel of Valentia truly expounded The 38. Chapt. Article 22. The expositorie Article that you allege is one of Iohn Hus his Articles and not Wicklefes condemned in the fifteenth session of the Councel of CoÌstance Therefore it is false that Wicklefe euer expounded his meaning in that Article and much more is it false that he did it according to mine owne construction Hus mistakeÌ by M. Ievvel for VViklefe as you say Thus you reherse and translate Papa vel praelatus malus et praescitus est equiuocè pastor verè fur Latro. The Pope or any other wicked prelate in doubteful speache is a Pastour but in very deede he is a theese and Latro a robber Here with M. Iewel Latro is a murtherer This is Iohn Hus his article not Iohn Wicklefes This needed not to haue ben marked but that M. Iewel is so precise and so watcheful to prie for the leaste escapes that any of vs maketh How be it both were Heretiques both Hus and Wicklefe and therefore we maie beare the better with M. Iewel if he mistake the one for the other Hus for Wicklefe and thinke that Wiclefe had more zeale of the house of God more learning more knowledge then al the Bishops of that age for so he iudgeth yet if he spake or meant more then truth maie beare M. Iewel who dareth not plainely and flatly either to allowe or to condemne the man but with Iffes and Andes mindeth not to defende him Yet he doth the best he can to defende him by a Canon of the Councel of Valentia in Fraunce not truely vnderstanded but altogether misconstrued Whiche Canon if it were truely translated that is to saie otherwise then M. Iewel hath translated it it should appeare he were fully answered and confuted A canon of the Councel of Valentia in FraÌce truly expounded that vvas corrupted by M Iâwâls false translation Concil Valentin Cap. 4. ConcilioruÌ Tom. 1. pag. 414. The canon truely translated is thus Who so euer sub ordinatione at the time that order is geuen either of deaconship or of Priesthod or of Bishophod shal saie they are defiled with mortal sinne they are to be remoued from the foresaid not orders as M. Iewel falsely translateth but ordinations that is orderinges or geuing of Orders for so the worde signifieth the very acte of ordering not the Orders them selfe whereby is meant that they ought to be remoued and bid to departe without Orders if one I saie would thus translate the Canon as the praeposition sub importeth M. Iewel were put quite besides his purpose and Wiklef shoulde remaine vndefended and giltie of heresie as he was before M. Iewel tooke in hande to defende him Remember M. Iewel Ordination is the acte of geuing Order Order it selfe is the effecte of Ordination or ordering By this Councel of Valentia they that confessed them selues defiled with mortal sinne were remoued not ab ordinibus from Orders for they had not yet receiued them but ab ordinationibus from the geuing of Orders vnto whiche they came for Orders Vse truthe M. Iewel deceiue not your vnlearned Reader with false translations Wicklefe is charged with this Article in the Councel of CoÌstance A king is not a king and a Queene is not a Queene by VVicklef if they be in deadly sinne A king being in deadly sinne is a king by vviklef Huss and M. Ieâvel aequâuoce in doubteful speache only and by a vvorde of doubt meaning as a painted man is a man Nullus est Dominus ciuilis nullus est praelatus nullus est Episcopus dum est in peccato mortali None is a temporal Lord none is a prelate none is a Bishop so long as he is in deadly sinne Beholde Reader how M. Iewel in Wicklefes defence bringeth in Wicklefe expounding his owne meaning or rather Hus for Wicklefe The Pope saith Hus whom M. Iewel taketh for Wicklefe or any other wicked prelate in doubteful speache is a Pastour but in very deede he is a theefe and a murtherer What then saith Maister Wicklefe of a king or a queene that is in deadly sinne by the plaine expositioÌ of his owne meaning What answereth M. Iewel in this case for his frende Wicklefe Mary whereas Wicklefe saith If a king or a Queene be in deadly sinne then neither is he a king nor shee a Queene M Iewel coÌmeth in with Hus and thus expoundeth the meaning of Wicklefe he is a King and she is a Queene but how In doubteful speache onely he meaneth in name onely In very deede both he and she are either of them a theefe and a murtherer For so he must saie of the Princes as he saith of the Prieste and Bishop that he is a King or she a Queene by a worde of double meaning as for example vnsauery salte is called salte or as the Prophetes of Baal are called Prophetes or as a painted manne is called a man or as S. Gregorie saith of the Priest by M. Iewels reporte let him or her be called a King or a Queene though in deed he be no Kinge and she no Queene but a theefe c. If a King or a Queene being in deadly sinne be no King nor Queene in deede as M. Iewel with Hus must saie and Wicklefe doth saie what honestie hath he donne Wicklefe in so making him to expound plainely his meaning to deliuer him from the obloquie of his Heresie and from the hatred of Princes when the exposition is as lewde and of as great force as the Heresie is it selfe that I laid bothe to Wicklefes charge and his at the firste Thoughe with your Rhetorique
you maie doo muche and beguile the simple yet thinke not but the wise doo see whyther the maintenaunce of this doctrine tendeth It is il haulting before kreples they saie Truly I iudge this haulting wil appeare muche worse before princes They had neede take heede sith that ye are so bolde with them that they fal not into deadly sinne least soone after by this Doctrine they be driuen out of their kingdomes The authorities in this place by you alleged out of S. Chrysostome S. Ambrose S. Gregorie S. Cyprian Pag. 117. do not meane that such as are il liuers doo lose the Sacrament of Orders once had whiche to saie were a very great and an olde condemned heresie of the Donatistes but that al suche doo not liue as the dignitie of Priestes and Bisshoppes doth require and that they be not suche as haue al the good vertues and qualities that Priestes and Bisshoppes ought to haue Many thinges are for certaine respectes denied whiche absolutely are not denied Al that in a respecte is denied is not absoluely denied Psal 21. Ephes 6. Ego sum vermis non homo I am a worme saith the Prophete speaking of Christe and not a man Wil you hereof by like Logique conclude that Christes humanitie is denied Non est nobis colluctatio aduersus carnem sanguinem we haue no wrastling against flesh and bloude saith the Apostle in some respecte bicause our principal conflicte is not against flesh and bloud and yet we haue a conflicte and a great conflicte against fleshe and bloude and are commaunded therefore to crucifie the fleshe with his lustes Galat. 6. But bicause the Apostle saith so shal we denie that we haue to wrastle and fight against fleshe and bloude at al I trow you nor your felowes are not yet so spiritual but that ye wil confesse ye haue to fight against the fleshe Verely the world seeth your workes be not yet al of the spirite but some of the fleshe Iewel Pag. 118. If the name of Vniuersal Bishop be a provvde name in others vvhy maie it not also be a provvde name in the Bishop of Rome Harding The name of Vniuersal Bishop is not a proude name in the Pope bicause he hath it of right The .39 Chapt. Bicause the worde taken in the right sense is the very right that our Sauiour Christe gaue to S. Peter and to his Successours whiche right of vniuersal regiment he gaue not to others You maie as wisely reason thus If the name of a Queene be a prowde name applied to Margerie Horne M. Hornes dame of Winchester why maie it not also be a prowde name in Elizabeth the lawful Queene With suche geare you fil vp your paper and like a great Clerke set vs out great bookes ful fraughte with stuffe of smal substance and lesse honestie Iewel Pag. 118. May Pride be humilitie and humilitie Pride onely in respecte of diuers personnes Harding Pride is Pride and humilitie is humilitie in what so euer personne Neither can euer the one be the other But that thing whiche is prowdly or with pride donne of one man maie of an other man be donne humbly and without al breache of humilitie You might haue demaunded many wiser questions then this Know you not that the title of honour whiche is due to any person maie be acknowledged of the same without any pride at al S. Paule offended not in pride when he said he was an Apostle sent not of menne nor by man Gal. 1. Iewel Pag. 119. Likevvise Chrysostome saith Dist 40. Multi Quicunque desiderauerit primatum in terra inueniet in coelo confusionem nec inter seruos Christi computabitur qui de primatu tractauerit VVho so euer desireth primacie in earth in Heauen he shal finde confusion neither shal he be accompted emong the seruantes of Christe that vvil once intreate of primacie Harding If that be the saying of S. Chrysostome A forged saying at tributed to S Chrysostome why did you not quote the place And why make ye so muche a do for the Primacie of the Queenes highnesse in Ecclesiastical maters within the Realme Intende you to bring your selfe and her highnesse into Confusion and to shut your selfe out of Heauen S. Chrysostome hath no suche saying That which goeth before in Gratian is taken out of Opus imperfectum in Matthaeum Homil. 43. in cap Matth. 23. Maximinus Arrianus whiche is wel knowen not to be S. Chrysostomes and witht great probabilitie though to be the worke of an Arrian Heretique named Maximinus But this saying whiche here you allege out of Gratian is neither there nor in S. Chrysostome It is a forgerie and that you knewe wel ynough Yet you are not ashamed to vse it to deceiue the ignorant Reader Leaue leaue M. Iewel to abuse the simplicitie of the vnlearned with suche forged peeces and patches What you allege out of S. Chrysostome truly or out of any other Doctor we shal soone answer it by Goddes grace For we are sure that truthe alwaies agreeth with truthe As for suche forgeries we returne them backe to you againe But bicause bothe you M. Iewel and others the chiefe Pillers of your side haue said so muche touching the name of Vniuersal Bisshop and haue so vehemently inueighed against the Pope for the same bearing the vnlearned in hande ye haue a great aduantage against vs therein I thinke it good and necessarie here to treate more fully thereof and to shewe how litle ye are to be trusted as wel in this as in many other pointes of Doctrine and howe farre ye abuse the vnlearned Reader by misreporting the thirde Councel of Carthage being deceiued if it be errour and not wilful malice by a place of Gratian very ignorantly and grossely mistakeÌ M. Iewels Forgerie concerning the name of Vniuersal Bisshop The 40. Chapt. Vniuersal vvhiâtherby is signified This woorde Vniuersal doth importe asmuche as one in al and al in one For the name of Vniuersalitie leaueth nothing vncomprised so that if any man be properly the vniuersal Patriarke or Bishop there is no Patriarke or âishop which is not in him and which he is not Therefore when Ihon of Constantinople named and wrote him selfe Vniuersal Patriarke or Bishop albeit perhaps he meant not thereby to derogate from al other Patriarkes and Bishops but only to make him selfe equal with the best whiche now also M. Iewel liketh wel of and defendeth it for lawful yet S. Gregorie and before him Pope Pelagius consydering the sclaunder that might rise by occasion of that proude Title did worthily resiste the said name and stile as proude and wicked bothe in it selfe and specially in the Bishop of Constantinople For if any man lyuing should take any such name vnto him it should be the first and chiefe of al Bishops which is the Bishop of Rome But he doth not so ne neuer didde so as the truthe is therefore much lesse any other Bishop
should chalenge that name vnto him These thinges are at large proued and set forth bothe by me in my Answer Ansvver to your Chalenge Artic. 4. fol. 90. b. Returne Artic. 4. and by M. Stapleton in his Returne of Vntruthes against you M. Iewel where you shal finde that S. Gregorie did exercise his iurisdiction ouer al the Bishops in the worlde in case they failed in any thing and tooke him selfe to haue cure and charge of them al not as a King and Tyrant but as a brother yea rather a seruant to al. Gregor Lib. 7. Epist 64. For he confesseth euery Bishop to be his equal so long as he sinneth not or as longe as his Church suffereth not some defecte And in that case he supplieth al negligences and al defectes and prouideth for al Churches in Asia in Europa and in Aphrica as his Epistles doo fully declare The whiche if I were disposed here ambitiously to blase as M. Iewelles custome is I might write out the effecte of twelue great bookes of S. Gregories epistles whiche doo fully proue these my sayinges But for so muche as that is already donne sufficiently let this one sentence serue for al. S. Gregorie saith of his owne Church of Rome The Apostolike See Head of al churches Gregor li. 11. epist 54. Apostolica Sedes omnium Ecclesiarum Caput est The Apostolike See is the Head of al Churches This being so let vs now consider that M. Iewel doth not only mislike with the name of Vniuersal Bishop as not becoÌming the Bishop of Constantinople because he was of lower degree then the Bishop of Rome nor only as vnseemely also for the Bishop of Rome bicause it conteineth a proude and ambitious brag and a meaning that may be taken in euil sense for which cause no Bishop of Rome euer vsed that name Defence pag. 118. but also he misliketh with me for saying that the name of Vniuersal Bishop in a right sense is no proude name in respect of him to whom it belongeth By a right sense I meane that sense which S. Gregorie allowed and that whiche the fourth general Councel allowed Yea farther M. Iewel saith that some Popes would haue had Ibidem and ambitiously laboured for the title of Vniuersal Bisshop and againe that the Councel of Carthage forbad the Pope of Rome to be called the Vniuersal Bisshop Al these thinges are false and fond as now it shal be proued Gregor li. 4. epist 32 ad Mauricium IteÌ eodeÌ lib. epist 36. ad Eulogium Anastasium Item codem lib. epist 38. ad Iohannem CoÌstantinop Gregor li. 4. epist 36 Tâe name of Vniuersal Bishop offered to Popâ Leo by the Councel of Chalcedon The name of Vniuersal 8. in vvhat sense agreable to the âope Firste S. Gregorie witnesseth that the fourthe Councel offered the name of Vniuersal Bishop to Pope Leo ⪠Therefore saie I there is a good meaning in that name whiche the See of Rome maie laufully vse For it is not to be thought that the fourth Vniuersal Councel assembled out of the whole worlde wherein were six hundred thirty and six Bishops would haue offered that name vnto the Pope whiche by no meanes could be verified of him S. Gregories wordes are these written to Eulogius and Anastasius the two patriarches of Alexandria and of Antioche Sicut veneranda vestra sanctitas nouit vni per sanctam Chalcedonensem synodum Pontifici sedis Apostolicae cui Deo disponente deseruio hoc Vniuersitatis nomen oblatum est As your Reuerend holines knoweth this name of Vniuersalitie or of Vniuersal Bishop was offered by the holy Councel of Chalcedon to the only Bishop of the Apostolike See wherein I serue by the disposition of God If then that name of Vniuersalitie was offered to the Pope and onely to him how can it be iustified that the said name may in no sense be agreeable vnto the Pope of Rome If it may be agreeable vnto the Pope in any sense it is in this bicause he is the chiefe of al Bishops who by office hath care of the whole Churche For the name of Vniuersal must needes haue respecte to the Whole Churche And in that only sense did the Fathers of that Councel of Chalcedon offer that name to the Pope bicause they knew that thing dignitie and office to be in the Pope for that he is S. Peters Successour whiche cause also is expressed in S. Gregorie Gregor lib 4. epist 32. Certè nomen Vniuersalis Episcopi pro beati Petri Apostolorum Principis honore per venerandam Chalcedonensem SynoduÌ Romano Pontifici oblatum est Soothly the name of Vniuersal Bishop was offered by the reuerend Councel of Chalcedon to the Bishop of Rome for the honour of S. Peter the Prince of the Apostles Marke M. Iewel he saith not that it was offered bicause Rome was the Emperial Citie That had ben a heathnish respecte but it was offered for the honour of S. Peter If it may then be vsed in a good sense only of that Bishop who is the Successour of S. Peter M. Iewel hath vniustly reproued me That no Pope vsed the title of Vniuersal Bishop Gregor li. 4. epis 32 Now to the second point that no Pope vsed the same title So saith S. Gregorie in the same place Nullus corum vnquam hoc singularitatis vocabulum assumpsit nec vti consensit ne dum priuatum aliquid daretur vni honore debito Sacerdotes priuarentur vniuersi None of the Bishops of Rome hath taken this name of Singularitie vpon him nor did consent to vse it lest whiles some peculiar thing should be geuen to one al Priestes or Bishops together should be depriued of their due honour This modestie was then in Popes for six hundred yeres together But this man here saith Iewel Pag. 118. VVherfore then did their Successours that folovved aftervvard so ambitiously labour to geate the same Harding They laboured not for it nor vsed it any time afterward as their style in al ages til this day doth witnesse For the Bishoppes of Rome doth not write them selues Vniuersal Bishops The Popes stile Seruus seruoruÌ Dei but eche one Seruum Seruorum Dei the Seruant of Goddes Seruantes And that style was of purpose taken and reteined of them to checke thereby the pride of the Bishop of Constantinople who neuer leaft his proude name of Vniuersal til the Turcke was sent ouer him to chasten bothe him for his Shisme and al that defended or obeied him in despite of the Bishop of Rome And that you bring out of Platina proueth not that any Pope euer called him selfe Vniuersal Bishop but when the Bishops of Rome sawe that the Bishops of Constantinople would needes by force keepe and vse that arrogant name Bonifacius 3. then Bonifacius the third intending to stay that together with that name the right of the See Apostolike should not be lost and passe away to the See of Constantinople then I
saie Bonifacius obteined verely not that the See of Rome should be made Vniuersal or be made Head of al Churches for so it was euer but that it might be so taken and called of al men lest the Grecians should thinke that the chiefe Pastour of Gods sheepe sate in Constantinople Whereof it would folow that if the chiefe Postour once taught Heresie as now the Bishop of Constantinople doth concerning the proceding of the holy Ghost then the whole Church should perish sith al the flocke dependeth vpon the chiefe shepeheard Now M. Iewel as he is woont to doo hath most guilefully endeuoured to persuade the Reader that the Popes cal them them selues Vniuersal Bishoppes and bringeth Platina forth in suche sorte that he wil not let him speake his whole minde His wordes are these Platina in vita Bonifacij 3. Bonifacius tertius à Phoca Imperatore obtinuit magna tamen contentione vt sedes beati Petri Apostoli quae caput est omnium Ecclesiarum ita diceretur haberetur ab omnibus quem quidem locum Ecclesia Constantinopolitana sibi vendicare conabatur fauentibus interdum malis Principibus affirmantibúsque eò loci primam sedem esse debere vbi Imperij Caput esset Affirmabant Romani Pontifices vrbem Romam vnde Constantinpolis Colonia deducta est Caput Imperij meritò habendam esse cùm etiam Graeci ipsi literis suis principem suum ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã id est Romanorum Imperatorem vocent ipsique Constantinopolitani etiam aetate nostra ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã non Graeci vocentur Omitto quòd Petrus Apostolorum Princepâ Successoribus suis Pontificibus Romanis regni coelorum claues dederit potestatémque à Deo sibi concessam reliquerit non Constantinopoli sed Romae Illud tamen dico multos Principes maximè verò Constantinum comparandae Synodi ac dissoluendae confutandi vel confirmandi ea quae in Synodis decreta erant Romanae sedi tantummodo concessisse Meritò igitur sedes Romana caeteris antefertur cuius integritate constantia cunctae haereses confutatae sunt explosae Boniface the third obteined of Phocas the Emperour although not without great difficultie that the See of the blessed Apostle Peter whiche is the Head of al Churches should both so be called and also taken of al men the which place or preferment the Churche of Constantinople went about to chalenge wicked princes sometimes helping foreward the matter affirming that the chiefe See ought to be in that place where the Head of the Empire was The bishops of Rome auouched that the citie of Rome was for good cause to be taken for the Head of the Empire as from whence the citie of Constantinople had benne translated Whereas also the Grecians them selues cal their Prince the Emperour of the Romains and they of Constantinople euen in our daies are called Romaines and not Grecians I let passe how Peter the prince of the Apostles gaue vnto his Successours the Bishops of Rome the Keies of the Kingdom of Heauen and leafte the power that was geuen him of God not to Constantinople but to Rome Onely this I saie that many Princes but specially ConstaÌtine graunted to the See of Rome only power and authoritie to gather and dissolue Councels to reiecte and allow those things that were decreed in Synodes Therefore the See of Rome is worthily preferred before the rest as by whose integritie and constancie al Heresies haue ben confuted and quite put awaie This was the Platina M. Iewel whom you alleged and durst not let him to tel out his tale But he saith not that the Popes laboured to be called Vniuersal Bishops but onely to staie the Grecians from a false and erroneous opinion and to kepe them in the vnitie of the Romaine Churche from whence that vsurped name did by litle and litle withdraw them Thus haue we seene two errours of yours the one Three errours of M. Ievv touching this point of vniuersal Bishop whereas you reproue me for saying that the name of Vniuersal taken in a right sense is no prowd name in respect of the Bishop of Rome the other bicause you impute to the Bishops of Rome that they laboured for that ambitious name The third errour foloweth Pag. 118. which is worse then the other two For you saie these be the wordes of the CouÌcel of Carthage as Gratian allegeth them Dist 99. Prima Vniuersalis Episcopus nec ipse Romanus Pontifex appelletur The Bishop of Rome him selfe may not be called the vniuersal Bishop And this thing you prosecute Pag. 121. 122. and repeate againe and againe But you belie the Councel and Gratian and the Glose too al at once And yet you are so highly auaunced in your owne conceite that ye seeme to make a glorious triumphe for it Thus you saie Iewel Pag. 121. Novv M. Harding compare our vvordes and the Councelles vvordes together VVe saie none othervvise but as the Councel saith The Bishop of Rome himselfe ought not to be called the Vniuersal Bishop Herein vve do neither adde nor minish but reporte the vvordes plainely as vve finde them If you had lookte better on your booke and vvould haue tried this mater as you saie by your learning ye might vvel haue reserued these vnciuil reproches of falshed to your selfe and haue spared your crying of shame vpon this defender Harding I neuer cried so ofte shame vpon the Defender as he deserued and that he is a shamelesse man it shal now be here as cleerly tried as euer it was before I laie three maine Lies to your charge in this mater Three main lyes laid to M. Ievvels charge Pag. 118. Pag. 121. Let the worlde vnderstande how wel ye are hable to discharge them One for that you say the CouÌcel of Carthage forbiddeth the Pope to be called Vniuersal Bishop An other for that you saie that Gratian saith so The third for that you saie that so muche is noted in the Glose First the Councel of Carthage is extant bothe in Greke and in Latin but those wordes be founde in neither of bothe Copies In Greeke the Decree is thus vttered ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã In whiche wordes there is no mention made of the Vniuersal Bishop Now the Latin wordes are these in the first booke of the Councels Carthag Conc. 3. c. 26. Vt primae sedis Episcopus non appelletur Princeps Sacerdotum aut summus Sacerdos aut aliquid huiusmodi sed tantùm primae sedis Episcopus It is by vs decreed that the Bishop of a first See be not called the Prince of Priestes or the highest Priest M. Iev falsifieth the CouÌcel of Carthage In Nomocanon or any the like but onely the Bishop of a first See Where also no mention is made of the Vniuersal Bishop Balsamon also making a Comment vpon the same Canon yet speaketh no worde of the Vniuersal Bishop We see then plainely that M. Iewel hath falsified the said Canon by
adding the wordes of Vniuersal Bishop to it whiche are not in the Canon expressed Nay saith he your owne Doctour Gratian doth allege it so This saie I M. Iev falsifieth Gratians meaning is a worse falsehed then the former Gratian vseth to kepe a certaine order and methode in othet places of his booke as he doth in this special place Distin 99. whereof M. Iewel now would faine take aduantage In that Distinction he treateth of Patriarkes saying in the first parte that Archebishoppes must obey Patriarkes In the second that Archebishoppes must not be called ordinarily Primates In the third that the Pope him selfe is not to be called Vniuersal And so doth the Glose diuide this Distinction Glosa in distin 99. beginning thus Haec Distinctio diuiditur in tres partes in quarum prima dicitur quòd vbi erant Primates Gentium olim ibi sunt modò Primates id est Patriarchae qui idem habent officium licet nomina sint diuersa Secunda ibi nulli Archiepiscopi Tertia ibi Vniuersalis This Distinction is diuided into three partes in the firste of whiche it is said that where the Primates of the Heathens were in olde time there are nowe the Primates that is to saie Patriarches who haue the same office that Primates haue although the names be diuers The second parte of this Distinction beginneth at the wordes Nulli Archiepiscopi The third parte beginneth at the worde Vniuersalis This being so it wil folow that Gratian meant to place the Canon of the Councel of Carthage in the second part of his 99. Distinction And so the mater of the vniuersal Bishop is not referred by Gratian to the Councel of Carthage He neuer meant any such thing Neither was there any cause in deede why he should so haue meant The true discussioÌ of Gratians vvordes in the 99. distinction But it is referred to the third parte of the distinction which foloweth afterward For it is Gratians custom for the connexion of his maters one after an other to put in his own wordes many times wherby to signifie vnto his reader what foloweth These wordes then vniuersalis autem nec etiam Romanus Pontifex appelletur Vnde Pelagius secundus omnibus Episcopis These wordes I saie be Gratians owne wordes whiche are this muche in English Not so much as the Bishop of Rome him selfe maie be called Vniuersal Bishop wherevpon Pelagius the Second writeh to al Bishops If now M. Iewel be so blinde a Lawier as to saie that the wordes Vniuersalis Episcopus c. do apperteine to the former Decree of the Carthage CouÌcel and be a peece thereof he maie saie also that these wordes Vnde Pelagius Episcopus c. be wordes of the Carthage Councel For they are no lesse in the same Chapter as it maie seeme But verely a meane wise man might haue seene the difference of these maters And yet M. Iewel is so lustie in his game that he doubteth not to saie Iewel Pag. 121. distin 99. And in the Glose thereupon it is noted thus In hac distinctione dicitur quòd Papa non debet dici Vniuersalis In this distinction it is said that the Pope ought not to be called the Vniuersal Bishop Harding O impudent Gloser Are you not ashamed to shew your peeuish falshed after this sorte Why leafte you out the beginning of the senteÌce Why haue you placed and counterfeited the wordes otherwise then thei are in the glose There they are thus written Vniuersalis M. Ievv fovvly falsifieth the Glose vpon Gratian. haec est tertia pars Distinctionis in qua dicitur quòd Papa non debet vocari Vniuersalis This word Vniuersal is the first worde whereat the third parte of the distinction beginneth in whiche third parte it is said that the Pope ought not to be called Vniuersal It is the third parte saith the glose whiche is to saie it is not the second part wherein the Decree of the Councel of Carthage was rehersed it is the third part For as the first part spake of Primates the second of Archebishoppes so the third speaketh of the Pope The Decree of Carthage belongeth to the mater of Archebishoppes and therefore it standeth in the second part Where are now these vaine bragges so ofte doubled by M. Iewel that these wordes Let not the Pope be called the Vniuersal Bishop are the woordes of the Councel of Carthage as Gratian allegeth Pag. 118. They are not the wordes of that Councel neither doth Gratian so allege them nor doth the Glose so take them and consequetly you are like your selfe I neede not tel what Some man perhaps wil saie at the lest they are Gratians wordes and then he holdeth that the Pope ought not to be called the Vniuersal Bishop Concerning that obiection I answer that Gratian doth no more but ioine together diuers decrees and his wordes depende vpon those that folow For he referreth him selfe to the Decrees whiche he there immediatly after reciteth These Decrees are the one of Pope Pelagius the second the other of Pope Gregorie the first whiche both refused the name of Vniuersal Bisshop as also al their successours haue donne But neither of them both refused that sense and meaning of the name wherein the fourh Councel offered that name vnto Pope Leo In vvhat sense the fourthe CouÌcel of fred vnto Pope Leo the title of vniuersal Bishop vvhiche the catholiques defende Greg. li. 7 Epis 64. and that sense we only defend To witte that the See of Rome is Head of al Churches and maie correcte or supplie the want of any Church whatsoeuer by sending a Bisshop to it where none is or by deposing him that is vnwotthy of that roume For hereof the same S. Gregorie who refused to be called Vniuersal writeth thus Quod se dicit Primas Bizancenus sedi Apostolicae subijci si quae culpa in Episcopis inuenitur nescio quis ei Episcopus subiectus non sit Cùm verò culpa non exigit omnes secundùm rationem humilitatis aequales sunt Whereas the primate of Constantinople saith he is vnder the Apostolike See A saying of S. Gregorie to be noted touching this whole controuersie if any faulte be founde in the Bishops I know not what Bishop is not subiect hereunto But when no faulte requireth so al are equal according as humilitie would it should be Concerning the Supremacie of the Bishoppe of Rome I thinke it not conuenient to stande here any longer about it seing al the Articles therof are sufficiently by me handled already both in my Answer to the Chalenge and also in the ConfutatioÌ of th'Apologie M. Dorman also hath answered to the Obiection out of the sixth CouÌcel of Carthage and M. Stapleton hath wel handled the mater of Appeales of the coÌfirmation of Councels of the Popes iurisdiction ouer the East and of their not erring in the faith D. Saunder hath shewed Peter to be the Rocke
and the Popes to be his successours He hath shewed also how the other Apostles were equal with Peter and how in other respectes they had lesse power for ordinarie continuance in their successours then Peter had But if I were of M. Iewels boasting humour I should now dissemble al this and write it in here a fresh as though nothing had benne said thereof before But I trowe wise men espie that smoky pride in him wel ynough I wisse lesse bookes might haue serued him for any good stuffe that is to be founde in them The fourth Booke conteineth a ful refutation of al that M. Iewel hath laid together in his pretensed Defence touching the Succession of Bishops in the Churche from the Apostles time vnto this present age Item a proufe of the necessitie of Confession WRITING the Confutation of the Apologie I had occasion to speake of the Succession of Bishoppes Thereto M. Iewel in his pretensed Defence hath replied at great length Wherein bicause he may perhaps to the vnlearned seme to haue some colour of aduantage against vs the matter being of good weight I iudge it not vnprofitable to bestow some labour and here to coÌfute his whole Defence touching that point whereby I doubte not it shal appeare how litle credite he deserueth if his sayinges be throughly examined where he blazeth forth most shew of learning That it maie appeare how directly he answereth the pointes of this Controuersie and of what pith his owne sayinges and how muche to the purpose his testimonies be and how truly alleged and that al be made the more plaine and cleere I wil reherse first the place of the Apologie that gaue me occasion to treat of Succession then the wordes of my Confutation against whiche M. Iewel bendeth the force of his Defence After this I wil laie forth his whole Defence sentence by sentence worde by worde as I finde it in his booke and so briefly as I can refel the same I am driuen to reherse that discourse of my Confutation againe bicause a great parte of the Defence depending thereof and being directed against the same onlesse it were againe by rehersal commended to the readers view and memorie our whole disputation would be obscure and vncertaine And this haue I donne also the rather to thintent the reader might haue that parte of my Confutation intier and whole whiche M. Iewel hath caused to be set forth in his booke pared hewed dismembred and altogether disgraced The Apologie parte 2. Cap. 5. Diuis 1. in the Defence Pag. 125. Furthermore vve saie that the miâister ought laufully duely and orderly to be preferred to that office of the Church of God and that no man hath povver to vvrest him selfe into the holy Ministerie at his ovvne pleasure VVherefore these persons do vs the greater vvrong vvhiche haue nothing so common in their mouthes as that vve do nothing orderly and comely but al thinges troublesomly and vvithout order and that vve allovv euery man to be a priest to be a teacher and to be an interpretour of the scriptures Confutation fol. 56. a. Al from starre to starre leafte out by M. Ievvel Saing and doing are two thinges Ye saye wel in outward appearance Would God your doing were accordingly Albeit the manner of your saying had ben more coÌmendable if in so weighty a point you had spokeÌ more particularly and distinctly not so generally and confusely * Ye saye that the minister ought laufully to be called for so hath your Latine and duely and orderly to be preferred to that office of the Churche of God Why do ye not so why is not this obserued among you Gospellers What so euer ye meane by your Minister and by that office this are we assured of that in this your new Church Bishops Priestes Deacons Subdeacons or any other inferiour Orders ye haue none No holy orders among the gospellers Leââ out by M. Ievvel In saying thus we speake not of our Apostates that be fledde from vs vnto your congregations Who as they remaine in the order which they receiued in the catholike Church so being diuided and cut of from the Church and excommunicate laufully they may not minister the sacramentes * For where as after the doctrine of your newe Gospel like the foreronners of Antichrist ye haue abandoned thexternal Sacrifice and priesthod of the newe Testament and haue not in your secte consecrated Bishops and therefore being without Priestes made with lawfull laying on of handes as Scripture requireth al holy Orders being geuen by Bishops only how can ye saie that any among you can laufully minister or that ye haue any lauful Ministers at al This then being so let me haue leaue to oppose one of these Defenders consciences And that for the better vnderstanding I may directe my wordes to a certaine person let him be the author of this Apologie or bicause his name to me is vnknowen let him be M. Iewel for with him gladly would I reason in this point the rather for acquaintaince and for that he beareth the name of a Bishop in that Churche where my selfe had a rome How saye you Syr minister Bishop ought the Minister to be laufully called ought he duely and orderly to be preferred to that office or as the Latine here hath promoted or put in authoritie ouer the Church in the Apologie this Defender saith yea Leaft out by M. Ievvel Then answer me directely How proue you your selfe laufully called to the roume you take vpon you to occupie First touching the ordinary Succession of Bishops from which as you knowe S. Iraeneus Tertullian Optatus and S. Augustine bring argument and testimonie of right and true religion do you allow the same with those fathers or no If not then dissent you from the learned and most vncorrupte antiquitie which is not reasonable neither then are you to be heard If yea then how can you recken vs vp your succession by which you may referre your imposition of handes and consecration to some of the Apostles or of their scholers as the foresaid fathers did to repel the nouelties of heresies and defende their continual possession of the Churche Which if ye go about how can ye but to the great hinderance of your cause bewraye your weake holde For whereas succession of doctrine must be ioyned with the succession of persons as Caluine in his institutions affirmeth and Beza auouched at the assemblie of Poyssi in Fraunce and we also graunt Succession of doctrine ioyned vvith succession of persons how many Bishoppes can you recken whom in the Churche of Sarisburie you haue succeded as wel in doctrine as in outward sitting in that chayre How many can you tel vs of that being your Predecessours in order before you were of your opinion and taught the faithful people of that Dioces the doctrine that you teache Dyd Bishop Capon teach your doctrine did Shaxton did Campegius did Bishop Audley Briefly did euer any Bishop of that See
the Chaier of Vnitie hath placed the doctrine of Veritie And immediatly S. Augustine bringeth forth this texte of Christe whereupon we now dispute S. Chrysostom saith Chrysost in Matth. Hom. 74. Benefite graunted vnto Succession Iohannes Sarisburiensis in Polycratico de CurialiuÌ nugis li. 6 cap. 24. Platina in Vitis Pontificum whereas Christ could not make the Scribes and Pharisees worthy of faith for their manners he doth it à sede Moysi doctrina for that they sate in the seate of Moyses and taught his doctrine So that albeit Scribes and Pharisees did sit in S. Peters chaier at Rome as M. Iewel affirmeth one Ihon of Sarisburie to saie who in deede saith it not of him selfe but in familiar talke reported vnto Adrianus quartus the Pope what was bruted abroad by the common people yet for their Chaier and Successions sake they must be obeied For in the Chaier of Vnitie God hath put the doctrine of Veritie and in that Chaier euil menne haue benne constrained to saie the Truth as I could shew at large by the example of Pope Vigilius who a thowsand yeres past before he came to be Pope promised the Emperesse to confirme the Patriarke of Constantinople being an Heretique but being once in the Chaier of Peter he chose rather through Gods grace to suffer death then that he would so defile the See Apostolike as by open bishoply facte to establish an heretike in a bishoply seate Iewel pag. 127. Annas and Caiphas touching Succession vvere as vvel Bishops as Aaron and Eleazar Harding Not fully so wel bicause perhaps they came to it by Simonie and yet bicause they were Bishops and sate in that Chaier God honoured them I wisse not for any vertue of theirs but only for theire Chaiers sake The honour which God gaue them was the gift of Prophecie as it appeareth by that which he gaue euidently to Caiphas who was the Bishop of that yere August tract in Iohan. 11. Which thing S. Iohn witnesseth in these wordes Vnus ex Pontificibus Caiphas nomine cùm esset Pontifex anni illius prophetauit quia Iesus moriturus erat pro gente One of the chief Priestes Caiphas by name whereas he was Bishop of that yere prophecied that Iesus should die for the people Vpon which place S. Chrysostom saith Chrysost In Iohan. homil 64 Vides quanta sit pontificalis potestatis virtus Cum enim pontifex esset licet indignus prophetauit nescius tamen quid diceret ostantùm Gratia non autem foelestum cor attigit Doest thou see how great the vertue of bishopply power is For whereas he was a Bishop albeit vnworthy he prophecied yet not knowing what he said And the Grace touched his mouth only but not his wicked hart And afterward againe Quid signat ⪠quum esset pontifex anni illius What meane thesâ wordes whereas he was Bishoppe of that yere Among other this custom was corrupted For now the hye priesthood was not during life but made a yerely dignitie and was geuen yere by yere from the time that the chieftie was to be solde for monie Veruntamen etiam sic aderat spiritus Yet that notwithstanding the holie Ghost or gift of God was yet present Postquà m autem in Christum manus extenderunt tunc eos dereliquit abijt ad Apostolos But after they extended their handes vpon Christe then the holy Ghost forsooke them and went from them to the Apostles S. Augustine likewise writeth thus August in IohanneÌ tract 49. Hîc docemur etiaÌ homines malos prophetiae spiritu futura praedicere quod tamen Euangelista diuino tribuit sacramento quia Pontifex fuit id est summus sacerdos Here we are taught that euen euil men foretel thinges to comme by the spirite of prophecie the which thing yet the Euangelist ascribeth to the diuine Sacrament bicause he was the Bisshop that is to saie the high Priest If then Caiphas being one of the vilest menne that euer was and committing the most horrible sinne that can be deuised in murdering Christ yet for his successions sake had the gift of prophecie shal we now geue eare to M. Iewels itching humour wherein he so reioyseth to recken vp the faultes of the Popes of Rome Be it some of them were proude and some coniurers The Popes teach truth not vvithstaÌding their euil life or neuer se great sinners besides yet so long as they sit in Peters chaier which doubtlesse hath no lesse priuilege theÌ Moyses chaier had we saie they haue the holy ghost to this effect that they keeping them selues in the faith of their Predecessours shal not be suffered to teach vs false doctrine out of the Chaier of Vnitie whiche Chaier of Vnitie Optatus more then eleuen hundred yeres past affirmed Peters Chaier to be Optat. lib. 2. contra Parmen and reckened vp the Bishops thereof in order til his owne time Therefore as from Moyses time til Christes Comming God of his mercie prouided that a Bishop and high Prieste with other Priestes and Leuites about him should not faile in Moyses Chaier whom al men vnder paine of death as it is said in the booke of Deuteronomie Deut. 17. were bounde to heare and obeye so muche more in the time of Grace God hath prouided that in the Chaier of S. Peter to whom louing Christe more then the other Apostles Iohan. 21. he consequently gaue Authoritie to feede his sheepe in suche superioritie aboue the other Apostles as he loued aboue them muche more I saie now God hath prouided that there shal not lacke til Christes second comming a Bishop or high Prieste in Peters Chaier with other Bisshops and Priestes not onely about him in that one Citie of Rome but also ioyned with him in the same faith and doctrine in manie Countries and Nations together whose final sentence in matters of faith and of good manners who so euer heareth and obeieth heareth and obeieth Christe but who so euer despiseth the same he despiseth Christe him selfe Now I saie to you M. Iewel what Bishop had your faith with preachers Ministers or Deacons about him from age to age who mighte wittnesse in al generations the Doctrine of Christe and the ordinarie Succession of the Churche Iewel Pag. 127. Of Succession S. Paule saith to the faithful at Ephesus I know that after my departure hence rauening wolues shal enter Act. 20. and succede me And out of your selues there shal by succession spring vp men speaking peruersly Harding I thought so you haue a succession to but it is of rauening Wolues They are your Predecessours and yee are their Successours For this saying M. Ievvel falsifieth the Scripture as you haue handled it is yours and noââ Paules He saith not that rauening Wolues should succeede him as your blasphemous penne hath vttered but he saith onely that after his departure rauening Wolues shal enter in Scriptures falsified by M. Ievvel But he addeth not that they
whiche beare the name of Christians And to the Apostles Christe said Matt. 28. I am with you al daies vntil the worldes ende If he be with them til the ende they likewise are in the worlde til the worldes ende But they liued not so long in this worlde therefore it is meant that from age to age and from man to man Christe will haue alwayes some to sitte in the Chaieres and Seates of his Apostles by ordinarie Succession vntil the worldes ende Of this Succession Dauid in the person of Christ spake in spirite saying to the Church For thy Fathers Psal 44. Sonnes are borne vnto thee Thou shalt ordeine them the Chiefe Gouernours ouer al the earth The Church answereth I shal be mindeful o Lorde of thy name in euery Generation and Generation therefore the peoples shal geue praise and thankes to thee for euer and from age to age .. So that the cause why the Churche continueth are the Gouernours by God appointed vnto it and as the Churche continueth from age to age so do they gouerne from age to age For the Visible Flocke of shepe can not long lacke their Visible shepeheard at any time but that the Wolues wil enter in and disperse them a sunder Iewel VVhen Christ beganne to refourme their abuses and errours they said to him Luc. 20. Mark 11. Beda in Lucam li. 5. cap. 80. by vvhat povver doest thou these thinges and vvho gaue the this authoritie vvhere is thy Succession Vpon vvhiche vvordes Beda saith They vvould haue the people vnderstand for that he had no solenne Succession that al that he did vvas of the Deuil Harding See vvhat coÌueiaÌce M. Ievv vseth to helpe his cause Scarse one line hath passed your handes into the whiche you haue nor conueied of your owne head the worde Succession Whereas neither S. Luke nor S Mathew nor S. Marke nor S. Paule nor S. Hierome nor the Pharisees nor Bede whom you allege vsed that worde at al. But to make your tale sound against Succession M. Ievv falsifieth al his testimonies you driue al to that point and thereby you falsifie euery place that you bring as euery man shal finde who doth conferre the matter with the Originals and so al your Defence standeth vpon fialsified Authorities But our cause God be praised for it is so strong Christes true Succession that we neede not to care though al that were true whiche you allege For albeit the Pharisees would not harken to Christes Succession yet in deede he Succeded lineally to al the Kinges and Patriarkes and thereby to the Priestes also of the best Order to wit of the Lawe of nature and not of the Law of Moyses whiche was an inferiour Lawe in respecte of that of Nature Christ therefore had not onely a most perfite Succession which is described in the Gospel from Adam til Ioseph the husbande of the Virgin Marie but also with that his Succession he stopped al the mouthes of his Enemies For thus he said to them VVhat thinke you of Christe that is of your Messias whom you looke for Matt. 22. VVhose Sonne is he They say to him the Sonne of Dauid Christ saith to them Psal 109. How then doth Dauid cal him Lorde in spirite saying The Lord hath said to my Lord sit at my right hand vntil I put thy enemies as a foote stoole vnder thy feete If then Dauid cal him Lorde how is he his Sonne And no man was hable to answer him a worde Neither durst any manne after that daye aske him any moe questions Here it is first to be noted that the Scribes and Pharisees knew Christ to haue a Succession from Dauid For his Sonne they said he must be Therefore M. Iewel in making the Pharisees to acknowledge no Succession of his hath corrupted the texte of the Gospel and vttered a great Vntruthe The Pharisees knew that Christe should succede in the very beste line but they would not attende nor consider how that Succession was now brought to passe in the Sonne of Marie who being of the howse of Dauid had miraculously brought forth Christe the perfite ende of the Lawe So likewise M. Iewel knoweth that the Churche of Christe must needes haue a perpetual Succession but he wil not consider how it is preserued chiefely in the Chaier of Peter Ioan. 21. to whom aboue al others the sheepe of Christ were committed Wel Christe then geuing the Iewes to vnderstand that he succeeded in the line of Dauid Christ not only the Sonne of Dauid but also the Sône of God would haue had them farther to consider that he also was the sonne of God and so shewed that he who was Dauids Sonne was also called the Lord of Dauid his Sonne by flesh his Lord by Godhed which thing did put them al to silence Euen so that weake mortal and some time miserable and sinful man whome sitting at Rome M. Iewel despiseth when he heareth him to be according to the gifte of God the Vicare of Christes loue as S. Ambrose calleth him in feeding his shepe Ambr. in coÌmment in Luc. c. 24. and the Successour of the chiefe Apostle he is surely astoined at it and would be put to silence if he were not worse then a Pharisee For admitting that the Pope were not S. Peters Successour but onely one of the lowest Bishoppes of Christes Churche yet who would not woonder to see him keepe his Succession so notably fiften hundred yeres together wheras al the Patriarkes and thousandes of Bishops besides are so mangled and so brought to nought But now if wee adde hereunto that the same is euen by our enemies confession and euer was the first See how muche more ought they to woonder at the special prouidence of God in that behalfe Therefore euen as it was miraculous that the line of Dauid was so notably preserued in so many changes and captiuities of the Iewes right so may we say of the Bishoppes of Rome in suche sorte as smaller thinges doo imitate the greater and may in their manner be compared to the greater Iewel Cyrillus frameth the Pharisees vvordes in this sorte Cyrillus in Cathen in Luc. 20. Thou Being of the tribe of Iuda and therefore hauing no right by Succession vnto the Priesthood takest vpon thee the office that is committed vnto vs. Harding Here againe you adde these wordes hauing no right by Succession vnto the Priesthode of your owne head M. Ievv falsifieth Cyrillus by adding vvordes of his ovvne Howbeit euen there Cyrillus sheweth that Christe had right by Succession which you should not haue conceeled had you dealt truly For there it foloweth Sed si nouisses ô Pharisee scripturas recoleres quòd hic est Sacerdos qui secundùm ordinem Melchisedech offert Deo in se credentes per cultum qui legem transcendit O thou Pharisee Christe had right also by successioÌ if thou haddest knowen the Scriptures thou wouldest remember that this
is the Priest which after the order of Melchisedech offereth vp vnto God those that beleue in him by a seruice of godly worship which passeth the law Why would you not see those wordes that folowed in Cyrillus M. Iewel First Christ had a Predecessour in his Priesthod euen Melchisedech the high Priest Secondly Melchisedech is here declared to haue offered vnto God and that Christ in offering vnto God fulfilled his figure whereas you would haue Melchisedech to make his oblation to Abraham and not to God Thirdly the thing offered by Melchisedech was not only bread and wine but Abraham the Father of al beleeuers was offered vnto God by Melchisedech And so Christe in his last Supper offered vnto God not now bread and wine only but by his almighty power he turned the bread into the seede of Abraham and so he offered vnto God al the faithful which by reason of their head Christ being truly conteined vnder the formes of bread and wine were also signified present as members ioined with the head and so were al offered ânto God Now whereas Christ was of the tribe of Iuda that made for him for out of that tribe the Messias was looked for by the Succession of the hââse of Dauid as the Pharisees them selues confessed And thereby they ought to haue vnderstanded that their Succession from Aaron should yeeld vnto the Succession of Dauid who had said that his Lorde Psal 109. and Sonne should be also a Priest after the order of Melchisedech And the Iewes knew that they ought to haue yelded to their Messias as to their chiefe head so long before promised If you can shew vs M. Iewel that as Christ was prophecied of to put the Priestes of Aaron out of their places so Luther Zuinglius or Caluine was prophecied of to destroie the Succession of S. Peter we yeeld vnto you But as the high Priestes and Pharisees were neuer bound to yeeld vnto any maÌ but only vnto Christ at his first comming so S. Peters Successours ought neuer to yeeld but only to Christ at his second comming And so by al meanes the Succession is perpetual and the true Religion neuer lacked it visible and cleare as this new Religion doth which for lacke of it can not possibly stand long no more then that of the Arians or of the Nestorians did Sap. 4. For Bastard slippes take not deepe rootes And therefore though they seeme to florish for a time yet soone they vanish away But the Tree which Christe hath planted that onely shal endure for euer That saie we is the Chaier of Peter with al suche Successions of Bishops as keepe them in the vnitie of Peters Chaier Iewel Chrysostome imagineth the Pharisees thus to say Chrysost in Math. Hom. 39. Thou art not of the house of Priestes The Councel hath not graunted it thee the emperour hath not geuen it thee Harding You know this author is not S. Chrysostome and yet stil you name him so not so much as addiÌg M. Ievvel very ofte allegeth the writer of opus imperfeâctum in Mattheum for Chrysostome knowing him not so to be Hom. 39. in opere imperfecto whereby we might vnderstand whom you meane wherein of purpose you doo vntruly Now to the matter This writter whether he was Maximinus Arianus as some auouche or who so euer he was doth not onely shew that the Pharisees might haue had suche thoughtes but also he sheweth that the signes and the true priesthod agreed al and mette vpon Christ who had his power not of men but of God And farther he addeth there in this wise Sacerdos qui est secundùm Deum omnem Sacerdotem timet offendere quia omnes ex Deo fieri arbitratur quamuis ex hominibus sit factus Euery Priest which is of God feareth to offend any Priest bicause he thinketh euery Priest to be made of God although he be made of men But you M. Iewel thinke no Prieste at al now to be made of God To be made I say For you wil graunt none other Priesthod then that Spiritual and internal Priesthod which is common to wemen and children as wel as to men As for external Priesthood you thinke none at al to be made and therfore you despise not only euery Priest made of men but also you despise the highest Priest of al to wit the Bisshop of Rome and al his predecessours being aboue thirtie Martyrs and mo Confessours and blessed Saintes that haue sitten in that See and haue exercised their power ouer the whole Church as it is wel knowen of S. Clement Eleutherius Victor Stephanus and others The Pharisees wordes may be truly applied to you M. Iewel For you wil haue no spiritual power to be in the Church but that which the temporal Counsel or Emperour Laie Princes made gouernours of Christes Churche in al thinges aÌd causes or some like secular Prince doth geue For these officers haue you made the supreme gouernours of Christes Church in al thinges and causes He that saith in al leaueth out nothing at al wherein the temporal Prince is not supreme Gouernour Therefore in your Church it is a good argument thou maist not doo the office of a Bishop preach absolue or Baptize bicause thou art not admitted thereto by the Ciuile Magistrate I wisse they of the Clergie in the Primitiue Churche would rather haue suffered a thowsand deathes then they would haue submitted the power which Christe gaue to them vnto the laie gouernours who although Christ alloweth them and commaundeth them to be obeyed yet were not made by him maisters of his Religion and of his Churche The power must come from the Apostles by lawful Succession which shal rule Christes Church and not from the Emperour or from the Kinge muche lesse from a woman or from a childe hauing otherwise neuer so good right to thinheretance of a Crowne Iewel Thus to maineteine them selues in credite for that they had Succession and continuance from Aaron and satâ in Moyses chaire they kept Christs quite out of possession Harding They would haue done so in deede M. Iewel but he did put them out of possession bicause they would haue had there priesthod to continue longer then the prophecies had foretolde and Goddes Counsel had determined For the lawe and Prophetes brought al to Christe and there was shewed that a change should be made by him Bring vs forthe the like Prophecies that Luther Zuinglius Caluine or that lusty Gospeller Beza must put the Pope out of possession and forthwith by like Miracle bring you to passe that the whole Churche I meane al them that professe the Faith of the Romaine Church be dispersed and destroied as Christ dispersed and destroied the Iewes then we wil leaue the Pope yea Christ also and follow you and them as our second Messias But if as from Aaron til Christes first coÌming the High Priestes ought to haue yelded their possessioÌ to no man that euer came so from S.
euer allege against the truth without some corruptioÌ In S. Paules words you leaft out a smal word in appearance but yet great of strength The worde ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã enim M. Ievv corrupteth S. Paule which in english doth signifie for This word for geueth great light to S. Paules meaning For wheÌ he had said that the preaching of the Gospel to the Gentiles was coÌmitted vnto him euen as the preaching of the Gospel to the Iewes was coÌmitted vnto S. Peter least any man should thinke that he meant of a special commission purposely reserued to him alone by God he declareth how that commission might be proued Qui enim operatus est Petro For he that hath wrought in Peter in the Apostleship of the Circuncision that is to saie of the Iewes hath wrought in me also emong the gentiles That same enim for doth make the place plaine They knew that God had no lesse committed the Gentiles to Paule then the Iewes to Peter How knew they it For he wrought now as mightily with Paule emong the Gentiles as he had wrought before with Peter emong the Iewes So that S. Chrysostome wel noteth Chrysost in 2. ca. ad Galat. non dixit postquà m audissent sed cognouissent hoc est ex ipsis didicissent factis He said not after they had heard but after they had knowen that is to say after they had learned by the deedes them selues Marke M. Iewel marke the deedes them selues It was now the commission of the deedes whereby God declared him selfe to haue wrought in them both But that not withstanding S. Peter did might and ought to preache vnto the Gentiles and to plant and dispose their Churches no lesse then S. Paule And S. Paule might likewise plante dispose and order the Iewes Churches For their right was one concerning the Apostolike authoritie Iewel VVhere you say that according to the ecclesiastical Canons euer from the Apostles time Bishops haue euermore ben consecrated by three other bishops vvith the confirmation of the bishop of Rome Harding I said M. Ievv falsifieth my saying with the consent of the Metropolitane which you haue here pared awaie and Confirmation of the Bishop of Rome I added also thus Vnitie hath euer benne kepte whiche you also haue vntruly leaft out Iewel Pag. 129. As if vvithout him no man might be allovved to be a Bishop yee should not so vnaduisely report so manifest Vntruth For I besech you vvhere be these Ecclesiastical Canons VVho deuised them VVho made them VVho gaue the Pope that singular priuilege that no Bishop should be admitted in al the vvorlde but onely by him Harding Among the Canons of the Apostles this is the first Episcopus à duobus aut tribus Episcopis ordinetur Let a Bishop be ordered or made Bishop by two or three Bishoppes These Canons are allowed by the sixth General Councel Yet can you aske where be these Ecclesiastical Canons who deuised them who made them By a Decre of Hilarius no Bishop can be coÌsecrated without the Metropolitanes consent What Consecration could M. Iewel and his felowes haue who hath neither Metropolitan at al nor lawful Bishop to Consecrate them Howbeit touching this I nede to saie litle for in the very nexte side of the leafe M. Iewel confuteth him selfe Where as one that had quite forgoten him selfe he saith thus Our Bishoppes are made in Fourme and Order as they haue benne euer by free election of the Chapter by the Consecration of the Archebishop and other three Bishoppes If this be the Fourme and Order of making Bishops that hath benne euer to be Consecrated by tharchebishop and three other Bishops why were you so hote against me in calling for th'Ecclesiastical CanoÌs which you bind your selfe now to shew or elles you must confesse that you haue made this new order that hath not ben euer Anacletus In epist Decret The Popes autoritie of coÌfiming Bishops is of Christ Ioan. 21. But now concerning the Popes authoritie to confirme Bishops to omit for this present the olde Canon of Pope Anacletus which is afterward alleged and to shew the first author of this mater Christe who made Peter the chiefe Pastour of al and who gaue commission to him louing him more then the other Apostles did to feede accordingly as he loued that is to feede more then the oâher Apostles did Christe who inspired Peter to goe to Rome and there to settle the Apostolike See and Chaire of his Bishoply Primacie Christe who inspired Peter to make S. Clement and the other Bishoppes of Rome his Successours gaue the Bishop of Rome Peters Successour this Priuiledge that no Bishop ought to be a Bishop without his consent For what reason can suffer that any man shal gouuerne any part of those sheepe whiche are al committed to the Bishop of Rome without the Bishop of Romes consent which consent is a Confirmation sufficient to any Bishop for the due gouernmeÌt of his flocke Now this consent of the Bishop of Rome was many wayes knowen For when soeuer he coÌsented to the general order of the catholik Church to wit that he should be a Bishop whosoeuer were laufully chosen by the Clergie Optatâus lib. 2. Communicatorie letters then his coÌsent was geuen generally And when after the election made coÌmunicatorie letters thereof came to Rome as to be head place of the Christian CoÌmunion then was the said Bishop specially coÌfirmed and so coÌfirmed that the Pope could not choose but coÌfirme him except he could make any iust exceptioÌ against him For as no man ought to gouuerne in the Church without the Popes confirmatioÌ when it may coÌmodiously be had without impediment euen so the Pope must nedes confirme those who are lawfully chosen except he wil vpon good ground change the gouuernmeÌt of the Dioces to a more profitable order as many times it hath ben don This mater would require a large Treatise But it is in part handled already in my first booke set forth against the Articles of your ChaleÌge M. Iew. wher you might haue sene what I alleged why the Pope should confirme Bishops so that now this thing should not haue ben so strange vnto you Ievvel Pag. 129. I remember your Canonistes haue said Felin D. constitut ca. Canonum statuta col 6. ver fallit M. Ievvel speaketh as if he had ben a Canonist many yeres agoe the Pope may make a Bishop only by his vvorde vvithout any farther Consecration Harding Do you remember it M. Iewel It was clearkly spoken forsooth and in such sort as if you had ben an olde studeÌt of the CanoÌ law many a winter past and that now whiles you had ben occupied in higher maters yet some of these former meditations had come againe to your minde and worthily For it was a thing much to be mused vpon of him that occupieth a Bishops place what Felinus or Panormitan said coÌcerning the Pope The truth is M. Iewel you either had this
stuffe in some of your Germaine gatherers or elles it was ministred to you by some of your CoÌministers if not by your blind lawier whose help you haue bought with a pece of an Archdeaconrie For you beganne not I suppose to studie the Canonistes and the gloses of the Law before you occupied the place of a Bishop if then at the least you did But how soeuer that be your memory might haue ben better bestowed theÌ in keping in stoare such a toie The Canonistes meane that the Pope as being the highest iudge is not bound to the obseruation of any thing in the law whiche is only Ceremonial so that he may dispense with those maters when he seeth cause and may with his only worde promote a man to the authoritie of a Bishop the omission of any Ceremonie notwithstanding But they speake only of rites and Ceremonies such as I suppose you your selfe would not or should not sticke vpon when either necessitie or vniuersal profite should require a thing to be spedily donne As for any point necessary to the Sacrament of holy Orders the Pope may not omit in any wise Iewel Pag. 129. Panor de coÌstitutioÌ translato And Abbate Panormitane moueth a doubte vvhether the Pope by the fulnesse of his povver may depriue al the Bishoppes of the vvorlde at one time But thus they say that care not greatly vvhat they say Harding When you had only said that Panormitane moued the doubte you conclude with thus they say as though he had said that in deede the Pope might depriue al the Bishoppes in the worlde at once Certainely the mouing of the doubt sheweth him not to say it For many doubtes be moued you know pardy not to the ende men should thinke that al may be donne whereof by learned men a question is moued but that they may the better carie away the answer So question is moued emong the Scholemen An Deus sit whether God be not that any man at al doubteth thereof but to see how the doubte might be resolued if any man were so mad as to moue it Once it is certaine that the Pope can not depriue al Bishoppes For although they be vnder him specially if they do amisse or nede any helpe yet they are as truly Bishops as he is and are the Successours of the Apostles who knowing the Primacie to belong vnto S. Peter did yet make Bishops by Gods ordinance where so euer they thought it expedient Aaron was the chiefe emong al the Priestes and Leuites yet he could not therfore depriue al the Leuites and Priestes And euen so your owne Panormitane whom you make to doubte concludeth with these wordes Quod si papa vellet c. Translato ex de Constitut non posset remouere omnes Episcopos cum repraesentent omnes Apostolos If the Pope would he could not remoue al Bishops for as muche as they represent al the Apostles Cal you this a doubting when he so plainely determineth against that for which you alleage his doubting Iewel Verely Nilus a greeke vvriter saith thus Nilus dâ primatu Rom. Pontificie The Bishop of Constantinople doth order the Bishop of Cesarea and Other Bishops vnder him But the Bishop of Rome doth neither Order the Bishop of Constantinople nor any other Metropolitane Harding It neither much skilleth what Nilus doth say Nilus a late vvriter and mainteiner of the Greekes Schisme whose authoritie is so litle worth being a late mainteiner of the Schisme of the Grecians and yet though his saying were true it skilleth also as litle bicause it speaketh of a matter of facte and not of power For he sayth not that the Bishop of Rome is not hable or hath not power to order some Metropolitane but only that he doth not so meaning that he vseth not so to doo And if the not doing proue any impotencie or vnablenes to doo it then it maie be said Christe is not hable to ordeine a Deacon bicause we read not that euer he did so by his owne mouth Actor 6. or handes For Deacons were ordeined by his Apostles after his Ascension But albeit the Pope vseth not to Order Metropolitanes with his owne handes yet Nilus I trow meant not but that he was of power to doo it or if he was so folish as to thinke so yet you M. Iewel should not in that behalfe beare the bable with him as who confesse that he was euer as great a Patriarke and much more auncient then the Bishop of Constantinople was so that the Bishop of Constantinople can not be able to doo that which the Pope also can not doo To be short you that can cal so many gloses to your remembrance could you not remember that as Liberatus Liberatus in breuiariâ ca. 21. recordeth Anthenius the Bishop of Constantinople being yet aliue but deposed for heresie Agapetus that good Bishop of Rome consecrated and ordered with his owne handes Mennas who professed the Catholike faith making him Bishop of Constantinople in stede of the other heretical Bishop Are you then so farre to seeke in your Logike as not to know that if the Bishop of Rome did lawfully once order the Bishop of Constantinople that stil he were of authoritie and power so to doo if nede were Iewel But hereof I haue spoken more at large in my former Replie to M. Harding Harding But thereof you are confuted more at large by M. Stapleton in his Returne of Vntruthes vpon you and yet could you dissemble the matter as though your fourth Article and namely that part whereof here you speake were not founde as ful of Vntruthes as of Allegations Iewel Pag. 129. Certainely S. Cyprian vvilleth that Sabinus being lavvfully elected Cyprian Lib. 1. Epist 4. and consecrate Bishop in Spaine should continevve Bishop stil yea although Cornelius being then Bishop of Rome vvould not confirme him Harding By this a man may know what a Dodger you are and whence your great bookes procede Verely from certaine heretical Notebookes made by some GraÌmarians or Scholemasters of Germanie For alwaies your allegations and reportes come out after the same sorte If once they conteined an open lye being neuer so often repeated they shal stil conteine it and reason For they were alwayes written out of one lying fountaine In the Returne Artic. 4. Fol. 127. M. Stapleton had told you of this very matter before He shewed that your note booke is false It was not Pope Cornelius but Pope Steuen who would haue restored Basilides to his bishoprike against Sabinus who was newly elected in Spaine But the staye why Pope Steuens Decree stoode not was only for lacke of true information in Basilides appeale made to Rome Now reason and lawe sheweth that when a thing is not done only vpon a certaine cause that cause ceasing the thing should be right wel done Sabinus might continue Bishop not withstanding that Pope Steuen wrote against him onely bicause Basilides for whom the Pope wrote
had deceiued the Pope by false suggestion Therefore if a true suggestion had ben made to the Pope his Decree should haue preuailed although it extended it selfe as farre as Spaine and that for the restitution of a Bishop against him that was newly elected a Bishop by the consent of al the Bishops of Spaine Therefore the Popes authoritie ouer other Bisshops grounding it selfe vpon a right and true information was acknowledged in the Primitiue Church Iewel Pag. 129. 130. Dist 64. cap. fin In dede touching euery Metropolitanes seueral Iurisdiction Gratianus noteth thus Illud generaliter clarum est quod si quis praeter sententiam Metropolitani fuerit factus Episcopus hunc magna synodus definiuit Episcopum esse non oportere This is generally cleare that if any man be made Bishop vvithout the consent of his Metropolitane the great councel of Nice hath decreed that such a one may not be Bishop So likevvise saith Socrates of the Bishop of Constantinople VVithout the consent of the Bishop of Constantinople let no man be chosen Bishop Socrates Lib. 7. cap. 28. Here is a right reserued specially to the Bishop of Constantinople and to euery Metropolitane vvithin his ovvne prouince But of the Bishop of Romes vniuersal right of Confirmation vve heare nothing Harding You reason vpon authoritie negatiuely as though if the Councel of Nice and Socrates speake not of that confirmation whiche belongeth to the Bishop of Rome therefore there could be no suche But it appeareth by S. Cyprian in diuers Epistles that it was the custome in his time for a Bishop newly made to sende letters to al the other Bishops intimating his Election Now as those letters came first and specially to the Bishop of Rome Cyprian Lib. 1. Epist 3. as fitting by S. Cyprians owne confession in the principal chaire and succeding S. Peter euen so if the Pope for iuste causes had not receiued the letters and communion of the said newe Bishop he then for lacke of the Popes confirmation could not rightly haue enioyed his Bishoprike as it appeareth by many examples which would require a discourse ouer long for this place nor very needeful sith the confirmation of Bishoppes is not our principal matter but only the Succession Yet M. Iewel who remeÌbreth of olde so much Canon Lawe may cal to his remembrance what I haue said in my Answer to the Articles of his Chalenge In my Ansvver Artic. 4. where I haue shewed that the Pope had three Legates in the Easte a In epist. Simplicij ad AcatiuÌ one in Constantinople b In epist Bonifacij ad Eulalium the other in Alexandria c Leo epistol 82. the third in Thessalonica Whereunto M. Iewel hath replied nothing as also M. Stapleton hath noted in the Returne Now if those Bishops being not only Metropolitanes but also two of them Patriarkes were neuer the lesse the Popes Legates it is easy to see how the Popes confirmation was geuen to the Bishoppes generally vnder those Primates seing the Primates them selues were confirmed by him or els they were not accompted lawful Bishops for lacke of his coÌfirmation Zonaras in vita ConstaÌtis nepot Heraclij as it is euident in the exaÌple of Pyrrhus the Bishop of CoÌstantinople who both was put into his bishoprike by the bishop of Rome when he had persuaded him that he was Catholike and againe was put out by his autoritie when it was perceiued that he had dissembled Iewel Pag. 130. Neither doth M. Hardinges counterfeite Anacletus claime al the Bisshops thorough the vvorld as belonging to his Admission Epistol 3. dist 93. iuxta SanctoruÌ but only a parte These be his vvordes Omnes episcopi qui huius Apostolicae sedis ordinationi subiacent Al the bisshops that are vnder the ordering or confirmation of this Apostolike See Harding If Anacletus be counterfeite Anacletus not counterfeite it is farre from our knowledge For we found that Epistle in his name registred emong the epistles of other Popes aboue a thousand yeres past And Isidorus who gathered them found them so intitled as we reade them Therefore your slaunderours tongue toucheth not vs. Ordination and Confirmation are diuers Concerning that you accompte Ordering and Confirmation to be al one it is a grosse errour both in Grammer and in knowledge of histories Ordinatio is ordering and Confirmatio is confirmation The Ordering of bishops was done by the bishops of the same Prouince with the consent of the Metropolitane Nicen. Concil ca. 6. But the confirmation was made by other Bisshops also without the Prouince and specially by the Bishop of Rome who these many hundred yeres hath confirmed them alone bicause the vse of communicatorie letters is leaft and that is reputed donâ by the whole body which is done by the head thereof Iewel Pag. 130. Sozom. li. 6. cap. 23. So likevvise vvriteth Damasus to the Bisshops of Illyricum Par est omnes qui sunt in orbe Romano magistros consentire It is meete that al the teachers vvithin the Romaine iurisdiction should agree together Harding The olde stuffe of M Iewels Replie here repeated Before you referred these matters to your Replie as though you would haue said no more thereof and yet al this while you do but write out your Replie againe To what purpose you allege these wordes I cannot tel as the which make euidently against you and nothing for you The Romaine world or iurisdiction was both East and Weast as farre as the Romaines had conquered and they had conquered al the countries wherein al the Patriarchal Sees were placed If therefore by Damasus you wil proue that he confirmed al the bishops in the Romaine circuite surely you proue thereby that he confirmed the three Patriarkes of Alexandria of Antioche and of Ierusalem with al the bishops vnder them So wel your owne tale is tolde And in dede better it can not be tolde seing euery thing that is true is agreable with the truth and therefore what soeuer you falsifie not must needes proue against you who susteine the false cause Iewel Pag. 130. Againe that you say a Bisshop hath alvvaies benne consecrated by other three Bisshops vvhether it be true or no it may vvel be called in question aâ being of your parte hitherto very vveakely affirmed Harding My affirmation therein is taken out of the fact of the three Apostles S. Peter S. Iohn and S. Iames Euseb histor Eccl. lib. 2. ca. 2 who as Eusebius witnesseth did consecrate our Lordes brother the first bishop of Ierusalem And he againe reciteth it out of Clemens Alexandrinus So auncient was this tradition whereof now M. Iewel doubteth The same likewise is againe witnessed in the fourth Councel Concil holden at Carthage Cartha 4 where two bishops are prescribed to holde the booke of the Gospels ouer the Bishops head Can. 2. whiles the third blesseth him Iewel Pag. 130. Surely Petrus de Palude
yet haue benne more plaine if you M. Iewel had not practized your olde false sleight in cutting of my wordes For when I had asked whether D. Capon Shaxton Campegius or Audley or any other bishops of Sarisburie taught your doctrine I answered thereunto it is most certaine they did not How be it I staied not there but went forward to remoue that your obiection of Capon and Shaxton whiche I forsawe you would make And thereunto I said thus How so euer those two first named Capon M. Ievvel left out al these wordes bicause thei ansvvered him fully and Shaxton onely in some parte of their life taught amisse how afterward they repented abhorred your heresies and died Catholikes it is wel knowen Now beside these whome els can you name Al these wordes of myne you leafte out M. Iewel as if I had neuer printed them You leafte them out not onely by not answering them but also you did not suffer them to be printed in your booke emong myne owne wordes leaste you should haue benne answered before you had replied as most times you are as it should appeare if it would please the Reader but to vew and peruse my woordes ouer againe and diligently to conferre them with yours Which I wish him to doo not only for trial of this point but also al others whereof so euer both we haue treated And he shal say you were answered before you made the Replie confuted before you made your pretensed Defence But what conscience haue you that liue at least mainteine the life of your estimation among them of your Secte by lying by dissembling by cutting of by adding vnto by mangling your Doctours briefly by deceiuing the reader one waie or other You were ashamed to haue no predecessour at al in the See of Sarisburie and to be like Nouatian or Donatus and such other the like Heretikes And therefore you name two Predecessours both which protested at their death that you and al your felowes are Heretikes and repented that euer they communicated with you so farre as they did Thus you come of your selfe as the Deuil doth and shal come in his chief member Antichrist And you come not holding by lineal Succession nor by lawful Sending as Christ came being sent of his father and being borne of the seede of Dauid and of Abraham But you are without Predecessours and I am sure if God for our great sinnes forsake not our CouÌtrie you shal not long haue Successours Iewel For the rest of the bishops that vvere before them vvhat faith they held and vvhat they either liked or misliked by their vvritinges or sermons it doth not greatly appeare Harding What neede wordes when dedes speake It is euident they kepte that which they receiued of S. Augustine our Apostle and that which was before and afterward beleeued in al Christendome Thei said Masse they adoured Christes body in the blessed Sacrament who doubteth of it They asked their coÌfirmation of the bishop of Rome and acknowledged him to be the Apostle S. Peters Successour Therefore they were not your Predecessours in faith and doctrine you may be assured M. Iewel Iewel I trust they held the foundatioÌ and liued and died in the faith of Christ Harding Now now M. Iewel you haue bewraid M. Ievvel be wraith him selfe what you teach in corners now that lurking heresie is cropen out whereof I spake in my Preface to you before my laste Reiondre touching the Sacrifice of the Masse There I shewed that the Catholike Church must be beleeued in al pointes of Religion and that they were Heretiques who persuaded them selues that it was inough to beleeue certaine Articles of the faith and to let the rest alone not regarding whether this or that be true But what cal you the Foundation of the true faith You knowe that al your Predecessours acknowleged the Popes Supremacie said Masse and beleeued the doctrine of the seuen Sacramentes and taught so Otherwise they had ben noted for Heretikes of others who liued together with them as you are of them who liue with you Seing then you know they did so what can you meane by the foundation but onely the beleefe of the Trinitie and of Christes birth death and Ascension As though it were inough to beleue those thinges what so euer become of the reste Math. 12. Math. 18. Luc. 10. But Christ saith he that is not with me is against me He that heareth not the Church let him be to thee as a heatheÌ and a publicane He that heareth you heareth me he that despiseth you despiseth me and him that hath sent me And S. Paule saith 1. Tim. 3. Iacob 2. Agust epistol 29. ad Hieron The Church is the piller and sure stay of truth And S. Iames he that faileth in one is made giltie of all that is as S. Augustine expoundeth it he that faileth or sinneth against Charitie is giltie of al other faultes Nowe charitie is broken if vnitie be broken and vnitie is broken if the bishops beleeue not euery Article of the faith expressely which the Churche teacheth to be expresly beleeued Therefore either your predecessours were with you or against you There is no midle or meane With you they were not bicause they taught seuen Sacramentes and the Popes supremacie and the Sacrifice of the Masse c. Therefore they were against you And then ye are the first of that faith and doctrine whiche now ye teache You therefore came of your selfe and are without Predecessours Iewel 131. If they had liued in these dayes and seene that you see they vvould not haue ben partakers of yours vvilfulnesse Harding These are the wordes of an Antichrist who seeking to make him selfe equal with Christ doth vse such Phrases by his wicked members as Christe did vse concerning his owne person In deede Christ and only Christ might say such wordes bicause he only shewed such miraculous workes that were hable to haue turned SidoÌ and Tyrus Ioan. 2. 10. or any other hard harted people But what haue we seene in these dayes M. Iewel which would haue ben hable to haue made al your Predecessours to haue yelded vnto your new faith Haue ye spoken with al tonges as the Apostles did Nay ye haue coÌfouÌded and dispersed them as it was done at the building vp of the toure of BabyloÌ For whereas in holy matters and specially in the Church Seruice we seemed to be deliuered from the curse of the DiuisioÌ of tongues bicause many nations of diuers laÌguages were vnited and knit together in one Latine or Greeke Church Seruice you go about to set the worlde againe as farre a part by diuers vulgare tongues as euer it was before Christes coÌming Haue ye built vs new Churches or schooles or hospitalles or colleges Nay ye haue pulled downe the olde and defaced them to the vttermost of your power Haue ye made peace in the earth and reconciled al dissensions Ye haue rather diuided the subiecte
Returne Article 4. fol. 30. sequeÌtib I think it not good to staÌd about it here bicause the matter is wel handled already by M. Dorman M. Cope and M. StapletoÌ But you dissembling what they say go on to mainteine the SuccessioÌ of lies in your own generatioÌ Iewel Pope Liberius vvas an Arian Heretike Harding Or els you are an errant sclauÌderous lier The truth witnessed by al sortes of writers is that he suffered bannishment by Constantius the Arian Emperour for the true Catholik faith Hieron in Chronicis in Catalogo and as S. Hierome reporteth being ouercome with the tediousnesse of his bannishmeÌt subscribed to the Heresie after a sort to wit by setting his hand to the bannishment of Athanasius For the Popes power was then knowen to be so great that the Emperour knew the Patriarke Athanasius could not seeme iustly to be deposed onlesse both other Bishoppes and specially the Bishop of Rome had agreed vnto it But when Liberius would not agree to the Emperours vniust request he was bannished Theodorit lib. 5 hist Tripart cap. 18. and as Theodoritus witnesseth he returned home to his See at the request of the vertuous Matrones of Rome who knew him to be farre froÌ the Arians heresie and iudged so wel of him for it that they would not coÌmunicate with Felix whom the Emperour had placed in Liberius roume For somuch as no man knew the cause and state of Liberius better then Athanasius of al otherlie is chiefly to be heard His wordes are these Athanasius in Epist ad SolitariaÌ vitam agentes VVhat Athanasius iudged of Liberius Liberius deinde post exactum in exilio biennium inflexus est minisque mortis ad subscriptionem inductus est Verùm illud ipsum quoque eorum violentiam Liberij in haeresim odium suum pro Athanasio suffragium cùm liberos affectus habebat satis coarguit Afterward Liberius hauing passed ouer two yeres in baÌnishement stooped and by threates of death was brought to subscribe But that very selfe same facte of his is a sufficient argument both of their Violence and of the hatred that Liberius bore to the heresie of the Arians and what his consent and opinion was concerning Athanasius at what time he had his desires free that is when he might both speake and do freely what semed to him most mete and expedieÌt in that cause How plaine are these wordes against you M. Iewel Athanasius who liued together with Liberius and knew his whole state sawe right wel that the Subscription which he made proued him not an Arian Heretik but rather a Catholike bicause he subscribed not voluntarily but violently coÌstrained and that not with a vaine feare only but also with the present bannishment of two yeres and farther with the threatninges of death Therefore although Liberius sinned greuously in yelding for feare yet he neither was an Arian nor preached he their heresie in his Churche at Rome after his returne but rather repented his deede of subscription and amended it by preaching and doing al that he was hable against the Arians and therfore after his death Epiphanius calleth him beatum Epiphan Haeres 75 Tripart lib. 7. c. 23 In Apolog 2. blessed and Theodoritus calleth him sanctissimum most holy In an other place Athanasius writeth of him thus Eximiarum vrbium Episcopi capita tantarum Ecclesiarum et verbis mihi patrocinati sunt exilia sustinuerunt in quorum numero est Liberius Romanus praesul qui quanquam non vsque ad finem exilij maela perpessus est biennium tamen in ea transmigratione perdurauit non ignarus sycophantiarum quas patiebamur The Bishops of famous cities and the heades of great Churches fauoured me bothe in wordes and for my sake also susteined bannishement Emong whom was Liberius the Bishop of Rome who although he suffered not the miseries of bannishement vntil the ende yet he continued in that place whiche he was carried vnto two yeres not vnwitting what were the sclaunders that we suffered This Liberius then although perhaps he subscribed at the length yet was there neuer good or honest man that euer would cal him an Arian who in dede neuer loued the Arians but abhorred their opinion But perhaps perhaps I say he was wearye of his long bannishement and after terrible threates of death being otherwise weake subscribed Wel maie such a forced subscriptioÌ argue the lacke of fortitude certainely it proueth not heresie For an Heretike doth stubbornely defende his opinion But Liberius was so farre from defending the Arian heresie that he could hardly with terrour of death after two yeres banishmeÌt be forced to put his hand vnto the booke against Athanasius which was in deede a derogation to the faith by a coÌsequeÌt but directly it was not Arianisme How seemeth not this wicked generation to spring of the Deuil sithence it maketh the worst of euery thing speaking euil of that which may wel and ought charitably to be defended And yet if he had benne an Arian with al his harte so long as he neuer decreed any thing according to the Arian heresie nor did set it foorth by publike authoritie of the See of Rome that should not hurt our matter of Succession Iewel Pag. 131. Pope Leo as appeareth by the Legende vvas likevvise an Arian Harding Here are al thinges stoutely spoken and nothing proued There haue benne ten Popes euery of whiche was called Leo but none of them al for ought that can be prooued was an Arian But it appeareth by the Legende say you What an obscure proufe is this yet how cleare is the sclaunder What Legende meane you M. Iewel Is it so notable that it was ynough to say the Legende whiche manner of speache we vse when we speake of knowen thinges Or were you a shamed to name the authour Verely onlesse you meane Leo the first I dare boldly say you can shewe vs no Legende written of any other Pope of that name And doth it appeare by his Legende that he was an Arian Certainely the contrarie appeareth That holy and learned Pope bothe by his owne learned workes Leo the first farre from al suspicion of Arianisme wherein he speaketh much against the Arians and by the witnesse of the fourth General Councel and of al the worlde besides is so purged from the suspicioÌ of that infamous name that your sclaunder in such a case must needes be most damnable vnto your selfe Truly me thinketh I lacke wordes to set foorth in due colours the lewd licentious tongue of this Sclaunderer and yet he alleageth nothing at al for al those hainous crimes which he imputeth vnto so many innocent and worthy menne The vvorthy Legende by vvhich it appeareth to M. Ievvel that pope Leo vvas an Arian Iacobus de Voragine But wilt thou know learned Reader what a worthy peece of worke it is that M. Iewel here calleth the Legende whereby he would proue that Pope
Succession aboue thirtie martyrs who died for Christes sake and as many confessours or moe whom al the good men in the Church haue accompted for holy and blessed men There was neuer general CouÌcel holden by catholique Bishops which did not coÌmunicate with that See and reioysed to be honoured and coÌfirmed by it From S. Peters time to our age you cannot name any one daie or howre marcke wel M. Iewel you can not name one daie or howre I say in which any knowen Catholike Bishop in al the world did or might euer say with the approbation of good men I defie or I despise or I do not communicate with the Church of Rome how soeuer some one Pope might seeme not coÌmendable yet the Church the faith the Doctrine the Succession was euer commended of al Catholike men To that See appealed and resorted as to the chiefe Light of the Church a Li. 3. c. 3. Irenaeus b De Praes Tertullian c Lib. 2. Optatus d Ad SiriciuÌ ep 81 S. Ambrose e Ad. Damasum S. Hierome f Epi. 165. S. Augustine g De vocat gent. li. 2. c. 16. Prosper with al the fathers besides That See promoted the Gospel into the endes of the world into England ScotlaÌd Ireland Denmarcke the low Countrie Germanie Polonia Lituania Prussia Liuonia Hungaria Bohemia Bulgaria and presently into the new founde Landes That See conquered al heresies coÌfounded them and al their authours and mainteiners from Simon Magus to Martine Luther and Ihon Caluin who now beginneth to be brought very lowe and by Gods wil shal be brought lower shortely the follie and rebellious sprite which his Doctrine breedeth in his adherentes breaking out and shewing it selfe daily to the world more and more See M. Iewel you and your fellowes are as sore a fraid as euer was the gilty theefe of his iudge or the naughty boye of his maister But do I say trow you that ye therfore haue no Succession or that yee are no Bishops and haue no Church bicause in your Churches of England there are not to be founde so many Idolatours so many NecromaÌcers so many Heretiques Aduouteres Churcherobbers Periured persons Mankillers Renegates Monsters Scribes and Pharisees as many easily be founde in the Church of Rome Nay I trow M. Iewel you take your marke amisse For if I thought so as it pleaseth you to thinke of me I would not haue denied you neither Succession such as it is nor Bishops nor Churches or rather Congregations nor Ministers nor Minstrels neither for the better furnishing of them withal if these so many worthy qualities could worke so great an effecte For that I speake not here of Heretikes The clergie of these nevv coÌgregatioÌs vvherby SuccessioÌ is claimed and so coÌsequently of Idolatours which faulte is common to you al what aduouterers whoremasters Incestuous persons Churche robbers Church breakers Periured persons Mankillers Renegates Abiured men Friers Apostates Lecherous Munkes Tapsters Hostlers Pedlers Tinckers Coblers Summoners Viceplayers Deuil Players Fellons Horse stealers Newgate menne briefly what vile and rascal rable want ye to fournish vp your Succession your bishoprikes your Synagogues and Ministring roumes withal Verely if this geare could make a Succession it shal soone be made good that ye haue also a Succession such as it is And ye neede not to mistrust any whit at al hauing so many of euery sorte as shal be more then inough for you Marie put these away out of your congregations I would cal them Churches were not that name to good for you I feare me you would leaue but a poore seely clergie behinde See hovv M. Ievvel vvil proue his so many Idolatours c. In the Church of Rome But how easy is it trow you M. Iewel to find so many Idolatours in the Churche of Rome as you beare vs in hande there may be founde Doth one poore facte of S. Marcellinus alone for the whiche he repented foorthwith and dyed a glorious Martyr of God make vp with you so many Idolatours I am wel assured that if you could haue found but one Pope more that had done the like you would not haue spared him your modestie is such but he should haue ben scored vp also to make vp your number of so many Idolatours Be it that Syluester was a Necromancer So many NecromaÌcers and Hildebrand too who was of that crime as of many other vntruly sclaundered by his enemies that could not abide to heare of any correction for their enormous faultes and therefore spited that good Pope as you doo al the Popes wil yet those two make such a number of Necromancers in that See that it were a very easy matter to finde so many as you would gladly make your Readers beleeue there were Be it that Liberius Leo Coelestinus Honorius So many heretikes and Ihon the 22. holding priuate opinions without open maintenance of them had ben Heretikes as you most sclaunderously reporte them out of baudye Bale and braine-sicke Illyricus yet these fiue make not so great a number pardy that it should be an easy thing for you to finde so many Heretikes in the See of Rome as ful rhetorically you set the matter forth Now with what face pretende you vnto the worlde that it is an easy matter to finde so many Heretiques emong the Bishops of Rome whereas with long prying and pooring in al your brethrens bookes you could finde but fiue to whom you durst to impute that crime of whiche yet three are vniustly sclaundered and the other two only misliked for their priuate assertions and neuer denounced Heretikes for stubborne maintenance or making any open Decree touching that whereof once they erroneously iudged But yet you wil saie that among the Bishops of Rome there were many Aduouterers So many aduouterers c many Church Robbers many Periured persons many Mankillers many Renegates It is happy M. Iewel that your worde is no sclaunder But I pray you good sir how many can you truly name of al these For of so great a number as you speak of it is wel likely you can name some and your malice is such against the Popes that you wil spare none howe smal a surmise soeuer you haue inducing you to thinke so euil of any Pope Go to then M. Iewel of your so many name vs some one infamous in eche of these great crimes which indifferently you laye to the charge of the Bishops of Rome leauing an euil suspicion in your Readers head that for the most parte al the Bishoppes of Rome were giltie of the one or the other How many Aduoutrers then can you name to vs Pope Hildebrand saye you was an Aduouterer that is a starke sclaunderous lie But were it true how many mo can you name let vs heare them Is there no mo but Pope Hildebrand Is one now become many with you and many but one So many Churche robbers Perchaunce yet of your Churche
Robbers you haue greater stoare And who were they I praye you emong the Popes that committed that heynous facte Hildebrand you tel vs againe was a Church Robber Doubtelesse this poore Pope hath offended you very muche whiche argueth he was a good Pope And were there no mo Churche Robbers amonge the Popes but Hildebrand Cough vp M. Iewel voide the malicious humour of your stomake Of so many Churche robbers as are in that rewe of Bishops name vs but one more For vpon so great a vaunt your Reader may happely thinke that you could name some other besides Hildebrand But suppose that this Hildebrand had ben no Churche Robber as in deede he was none and you could not iustly haue charged him therwith had you not put your felicitie in sclauÌdering good and vertuous men where then might a man so easly haue found I say not so many Churchrobbers as you tel vs of but only one emoÌg al the Bishops of Rome Wel yet of Periured persons we shal find great numbers that you might not be found a sclaunderer in that point So many Periured persons how wel soeuer you haue acquited your selfe of the former Go to then tel vs how many Periured persons occupied that roume and who they were You tel vs once againe that Hildebrand was a Periured person Verely you are much beholden to HildebraÌd but specially to that wicked coÌuenticle of naughtie Bishops assembled by the Emperour at Brixia who most vniustly sclauÌderd that godly Pope For had they not ben you had lost a faire rhetorical lie I should haue said a foule coÌclusion But yet perhaps there were emong the Popes many Mankillers and many Renegates So many maÌkillers and Renegates whom if you can name to your Reader you may peraduenture seeme to him at the lest in this a true reporter and not a malicious sclauÌderer Who then were these so many Mankillers so many Renegates Of likelyhod you know many such or els you would not so stoutly auouch it Tel on Perge mentiri name vs them Yet once againe you tel vs that Hildebrand was a Mankiller Hildebrand was a Renegate But what was there none but Hildebrand M. Iewel Among two hundred Popes and vpward can you finde none that was an Aduouterer a Churchrobber a Periured person a Mankiller a Renegate but only Pope Hildebrand And yet you tel vs that of men of these qualities there haue ben such a number in that rewe of Bishoppes that of euery sorte it were or elles you lye sauing other mennes honestie an easy matter to finde many Are they now so suddainly vanished out of sight that to saue your poore honestie you can bring vs forth none but onely Hildebrand And howe can Pope Hildebrand whom most vniustly and vpon the manifest sclaunder of his enemies you haue here accused make vp the number of your so many Aduouterers so many Church robbers so many Periured persons so many Mankillers so many Renegates Are you not ashamed thus notoriously and withal most sclaunderously to belye that blessed Succession of Bishops which hath through the miraculous working of God continewed without interruption from S. Peters time vntil these our dayes Leaue leaue M. Iewel these vaine Rhetorical lying and sclaunderous conclusions Goe simply and plainely to the matter tel no more then you are wel hable to proue Learne rather to speake wel of your forefathers then with such impudencie to diffame and speake il of them who are departed this world in the vnitie of the Churche and peace of Christe And whereas you charge me with saying that ye haue no Succession no Bishoppes no Churche bicause ye haue no Idolatours Necromancers Heretikes and such like and then would seeme to salue the matter againe with an I trow I trow it be no good manner and lesse honestie to saie that of your aduersarie which by no colour possibly you can pike out of his wordes How be it I forgeue it you for that euery man may easily perceiue it to be but a pretie sleight of your arte whiche as I trow most menne cal the arte of lying Iewel But S. Paule saith Rom. 10. faith commeth not by succession but by hearing and hearing commeth not of legacie or enheritance from Bisshop to Bishop but of the vvorde of God Harding If faith come of hearing and hearing come of Gods worde I aske you whether the hearing shal endure for euer or no I saie it shal bicause it is written Math. 28. Luc. 1. I am with you al daies to the worldes end and al generations shal cal me blessed and Christ the sonne of Dauid shal reigne in the house of Iacob for euer This can not be but where that hearing is Now if hearing endure for euer seing hearing was at the first by the preaching of Bishops I saie that the Succession of Bishops endureth for euer Ephes 4. For God hath geuen pastours and doctours vnto his Church saith S. Paule vntil we shal al meete in vnitie of faith which shal be at the seconde comming of Christe Therefore it is not only not true that the hearing of the faith preached doth any thing withstand the perpetual Succession of Bishops but rather the Succession is proued thereby For as Christe instituted first the preaching of the faith by the Apostles who were also Bishops and as after the Apostles they were Bishoppes who chiefely continued the preaching of the same faith euen so vnto the worldes ende there must lacke no Bishoppes by whom the same maie stil be preached For Isaie saith Isai 62. Vpon thy walles ô Ierusalem I haue sette watchemen no daye nor night shal they holde their peace Suche watchemen haue ben alwaies in the Churche of Rome suche M. Iewel can not recken to haue ben alwaies in his Churche Therefore the preaching of the faith hath ben in the Romaine Church and not in his Iewel They are not alvvaies godly that succede the godly Harding Much lesse are they godly who forsake the godly But our question is not of godlinesse but of true faith which may be where godlinesse is not For they that preached the true faith for enuie against S. Paule Philip. cap. 1. had the true faith yet were they not godly Iewel Manasses succeded Ezechias Harding And therefore Christe was as wel borne of Manasses line as of Ezechias For albeit the godlinesse were not like in the men yet Christe wrought then the mysterie of his Birth and now he worketh the preseruation of his faith as wel by the euil as by the good Iewel Hieroboam succeded Dauid Harding 3. Reg. 12. There you were deceiued M. Iewel Roboam succeded Dauid Hieroboam diuided the kingdome and the inheritance of the Succession of Dauid But God saith often times that he kepte some of Dauids line in his throne 3. Reg. 11. et 15. et 4. Reg. 8. that a candel might remaine to his seruant Dauid for euer God surely accompted the line of Hieroboam no succession
the Scriptures or of the auncient Fathers M. Iewel meant to shewe that by Gods worde we might forsake our Predecessours examples But S. Cyprian rather sheweth that if our predecessours be taken as they ought to be taken that is to say for those that keepe the tradition and doctrine of the Apostles that then their Tradition is Gods worde Goddes VVord not written For he putteth it to be Gods owne worde that Christe offered his Chalice mingled of water and wine Yet of water there is no mention in the storie of the Supper In what worde then is it written that Christe had water in his Chalice Verely in the worde of Apostolike Tradition TraditioÌ in the vnwritten word in the worde of General Succession For in al Churches he sawe water mingled with wine and being assured that the Apostles who saw Christe to do it taught it so doubted not to say that our Lorde taught vs by his example and worde to mingle water with wine and so to offer the Chalice Verely you were farre ouerseene M. Iewel when you alleged this example as being suche whereby your selfe and al them of your side are vtterly condemned And what should ye do Except ye would repeÌt which God graunt if it be his wil ye must needes adde lye vnto lye without ende or measure or geue ouer the enterprise wherof you made your boasting ChaleÌge Iewel CoÌpare the vse of our Churches M. Harding vvith the Primitiue Church of God and ye shal easily see the right of our Succession Harding Diuersitie betvven the primitiue Churche and the Churches of this nevve Gospel Rom. 10. Ioan. 20. Tit. 1. Damasus in pontifi VVho sendeth you M. Ievvel who sent your felovves Ioan. 10. If I should compare your Churches with the Primitiue Churche of God so narrowely as I might from the beginning to the ending we should finde scant any shadowe in your Churches of the Primitiue Church There no man preached but he that was lawfully sent as S. Paule saith And sent he was either of Christ visibly and sensibly speaking vnto him as when he said to the Apostles as my Father sent me I send you or els by the Apostles as when S. Paule sent Titus and Timotheus and S. Peter sent S. ClemeÌt and so S. ClemeÌt afterward sent others and so froÌ man to man Now tel vs who sendeth you to preach Not the Bishops which are the Successours of the Apostles whom ye despise Who then Forsooth one is sent of the common Weale which neuer had power to send him an other of the Ciuil Magistrate who also had no such power An other runneth before he be sent and therefore commeth of him selfe and is an Antichriste Moreouer the Apostles and their scholars preached that Irenaus lib. 4. c. 3. which they had heard preached whether it were written or no as S. Irenaeus witnesseth But you wil haue nothing preached except it be written and neuerthelesse yee preache that which is neither written nor deliuered you by Apostolike Tradition but as euery vaine Iustin in Apolog. 2. Lib. 4. cap. 32. light and idle braine imagineth of it selfe They mingled water with wine so doo not you They taught the Supper of our Lorde to be the new oblation of the new TestameÌt as saith S. Irenaeus You saie there is no external Oblation of the new Testament beside Christes death In the Primitiue Churche he that had ben twise maried Tit. 1. could not be Priest according to S. Paules doctrine You teache it to be lawful to make him Priest that hath ben ten times married and onlesse euery Priest 1. Timo. 5. and Minister among you be married ye iudge not wel of him S. Paule speaketh of olde Widowes who might marrie no more you haue none such But what ende shall there be of wordes If I would go thorough an hundred articles together it should appeare that ye haue nothing like the Apostles or like the Primitiue Churche There were Exorcismes Insufflations holy Oile holy Chrisme Incense Altares De Eccles Hierarchia as we read in S. Dionysius of al whiche ye haue not one and condemne the hauing of them They fasted a certaine number of daies as they who keeping the example of Christe fasted the forty daies Ignatius Epist ad PhilippeÌs Actor 2. 4. et 5 Math. 19. whiche we cal the Lenten Faste They prayed watched gaue away al their goodes and vowed so to doo they vowed chastitie and most exactly perfourmed the same they commended the Dead to God with praiers almose and Sacrifices whiche thinges ye for the most parte despise and accompt superstitious Iewel 133. S. Cyprian saith Si canalis aquae c. If the pipes of the conduit Ad Pompeium contra Epist Stephani which before ranne with abundance happen to faile do we not vse to search to the head The priestes of God keeping Gods commaundementes must doo the same that if the truth hath fainted or failed in any point we returne to the very original of our Lorde and to the Tradition of the Gospel and of the Apostles that there hence we may take the discretion of our dooinges from whence the order it selfe and original first beganne Harding S. CypriaÌ alleged by M. Ievvel in an il cause The errour of S. Cyprian It is to be knowen M. Iewel that S. Cyprian vsed this saying in an euil cause as your selfe can not denie And therefore he defending a falshood was driuen to the very same shiftes whereunto al Heretikes are driuen He in deede was no Heretike For although he falsely beleued an vntruth and earnestly taught that those who had ben baptized of Heretiques if they came to the vnitie of the Catholike Churche should be baptized as hauing before no true sacrament of Baptisme yet he protested many times that he iudged no man that thought or taught the contrarie Cyprianus In epist ad IubatanuÌ contra Epist Stephani For he would not denie vnitie neither for that nor for any thing elles but liued a true Catholique and died a blessed Martyr Notwithstanding whiles he defended his errour he was deceiued in that Principle which now you allowe For whereas Pope Stephanus knowing that by SuccessioÌ the vse of the only laying of handes vpon them that had ben baptized of heretikes without baptizing them a new was deriued from the Apostles and receiued generally euen in Afrike it selfe vntil Agrippinus a Bishop of Carthage before S. Cyprian brake it whereas Pope Stephanus I say knowing this decreed that nothing should be changed or be taken vp a new S. Cyprian not being able to denie the tradition whereof Pope Steuen spake and which S. Cyprians predecessour Agrippinus first beganne to change fled to this common place that the worde of God was against the custome and therefore the custome ought to be broken The Pope defended with diuers other Bishops thât the custome and Tradition was not against Gods worde Then said S. Cyprian
Fathers accompted euil in vvedlok vvorke Matrimonie it selfe were an euil thing God forbid any should so speake of Goddes holy ordinance But he meaneth the coniunction of the Husband with his wife in the acte of generation Neither yet vnderstandeth he the coniunction or acte it selfe in wedlocke to be an euil thing so it be not to the end to saciate luste and pleasure but to the ende to begete a childe that being againe begotten and regenerate may serue to fil the Citie of God as S. Augustine speaketh but the immoderate concupiscence and luste without the whiche that wedlocke acte is not done Whereof S. Augustine saith August de Nuptijs et concupiscent lib. 1. cap. 24. Cùm ventum fuerit ad opus generandi ipse ille licitus honestus concubitus non poterit esse sine ardore libidinis vt peragi possit quod rationis est non libidinis This immoderate concupiscence this inordination this rebellion of the fleshe and preuenting and ouerbearing of reason this filthy motion swaruing from reason whereof shame is taken without whiche the acte of Wedlocke is not donne is the thing whiche the authour of that vnperfite worke vppon S. Matthew and sundry holy Fathers haue called Malum asmuche to say an euil thing The euil thing of wedlock vvorke of married persons vvel vsed The three good thinges of marriage à cap. 10. vsque ad cap. 16. Whiche euil thing notwithstanding married personnes doo vse wel bicause of the three good thinges that Matrimonie hath by which it is excused Those three thinges are these Fides Proles Sacramentum Faith or Fidelitie Issue and the Sacrament whereof S. Augustine teacheth learnedly in his firste booke De Nuptijs concupiscentia ad Valerium By these three good thinges as S. Augustine and the Churche teacheth the vse of Matrimonie is excused not as an acte that of it selfe is euil is excused thorough ignorance or infirmitie whiche is rather an excuse of the partie that worketh but it is excused for that otherwise it should be a sinne excepte it had these three good thinges ioyned together Whiche when it hath the Circumstances to euery good acte behooful presupposed it is an acte lawful honest good and laudable Now this being considered whereas you M. Iewel iudge the holy Fathers to speake otherwise of Matrimonie then the honor and holinesse of that state deserueth you shew your selfe to be of the nuÌber of those deceiued men August de Nuptus et Concupis lib. 1. ca. 5. of whom S. Augustin saith thus Profectò erraÌt qui cuÌ vituperatur libido carnalis damnari nuptias opinantur quasi morbus iste de connubio sit non de peccato Verely they are deceiued which when fleshly luste is rebuked thinke that marriage is condemned as though this disease were of wedlocke August de peccato originali contra Pelag. CoelestiuÌ lib. 2. c. 37 and not of sinne Likewise he saith againe Quia iam ista conditione mortalium nunc simul aguntur concubitus libido eò fit vt cùm libido reprehendatur etiam nuptialis concubitus licitus honestus reprehendi putetur ab eis qui nolunt discernere ista vel nesciunt Bicause as the condition of men is now after Sinne the acte of generation and lust are done both atonce thereof it commeth to passe that when luste is reprooued the lawful and honest dealing of them together that be coupled in wedlocke is thought also to be reprooued of them whiche wil not discerne betwene these thinges he meaneth the acte and the lust or els know not how to discerne them To coÌclude what so euer certaine Fathers say and how so euer they seeme to speake of Matrimonie this perteined nothing to the purpose Al your great number of allegations might haue ben leafte out for asmuche as thereby your Vowbreakers marriage is nothing iustified nor defended M. Iewels second Principle for defence of Vow-breakers marriages answered which is that Bisshoppes and Priestes were married in olde time Your second Principle for so you cal it wherein you put the chiefe confidence of this cause is that many Bishops and Priestes in olde time were married for so you dispose your wordes I tel you M. Iewel you haue not so much as one example for you that a bishop was married I meane that any was euer married in the olde Church and allowed in it after that he was Bishop That diuers and sundry married menne were for their vertue and holy life made Bishops I denie not ne neuer yet denied You allege al the examples of antiquitie that you can yet not so much as one to the purpose That Tertullian was a married man TettulliaÌ of a married man made Priest Spiridion made Bisshop froÌ being a married laie man S. Hilarie married by M. Ievvel In the Reioinder against the Sacrifice of the Masse fol. 172. b. and afterwarde made a Priest I graunte You say Spiridion the Bisshop of Cyprus was married and had children I denie that Spiridion being a Bishop was married but I confesse that being a married laye man before he was chosen afterwarde to be a Bishoppe and had one daughter named Irene Whether he had mo children I knowe not of mo children of his I haue not read You make S. Hilarie the bishop of Poitiers a married man Your proufe is the Epistle to Abra his daughter If I denie that he was euer married how can ye prooue it The Epistle to Abra is a peeuish Apocryphal and forged write as I tolde you in my last Reioindre where you vtter this same very stuffe in great sooth whereby the worlde may vnderstand what simple ragges ye haue wherwith to coouer your brethern the Apostates filthy lecherie That Prosper the Bishop of Rhegium was a married man you say it but you prooue it not And were it so yet it serueth not your turne bicause if he were maried it was before he was priest Neither haue you good authoritie for proufe that Chaeremon ChaeremoÌ the Bishop of a Citie called Nilus whom you recken among married Bishops Euseb Hist Eccles lib. 6. cap 42. was married Eusebius saith that in time of persecution he fled vnto a Hil in Arabia with her that liued with him ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and was neuer founde againe That she was his wife it appeareth not She might be some woman of his kinne or some other old womaÌ that kept him and dressed his meate and attended him as a nourse of whom he had neede being a man of extreme age as Eusebius reporteth of him saying that he was ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã that is to say passing olde Polycrates Polycrates you say being a Bisshop sometimes said that seuen of his Fathers or Ancestours had ben Bishoppes What healpeth this your cause at al Marry say you the Greeke word is ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and Ruffinus translateth it Patres Wherunto sticke you vnto the Greeke word
say expressely that these three Degrees Bishops Priestes and Deacons are annexed and tyed vnto chastitie S. Leo that learned Bishop of Rome writing to Rusticus the Bishop of Narbon in Fraunce saith Lex continentiae eadem est Altaris ministris quae episcopis atque presbyteris Qui cùm essent laici siue lectores licitè vxores ducere filios procreare potuerunt Sed cùm ad praedictos peruenerunt gradus coepit eis non licere quod licuit The ministers of the Aulter that is to say Deacons and Subdeacons be bounde to the same lawe of continencie as Bishops and Priestes be When they were Laiemen or Readers it was lawful for them both to marrie wiues and to begete children But after they came to the foresaid degrees what before was to them lawful began now to be vnlawful Distin 31. Quoniam Whereas the Fathers of the sixth General Councel holden in Constantinople do agnise and confesse as Gratian reherseth out of Iuo Carnotensis that it is coÌmaunded by the Romaine Canon that they who tooke the holy order of Deaconship or Priesthod should professe and promise to coÌpanie no more with their owne wiues which they had maried before they came to take orders ⪠thereof it is vndoubtedly concluded that if any came single to those holy orders they were as they might be with more right required afterward neuer to marrie Chastitie promised at the raking of holy Orders also in the auÌcient Greke Church Concil Neocaesar Cap. 1. Neither was it the custome of the Latine Church only that who so euer tooke holy orders should promise chastitie but also of the Greeke Churche and that before the first Councel of Nice The Fathers of the auncient Councel of Neocaesaria now called Trapezus Trapezonda in vulgare language whereat S. Basile and S. Gregorie Nazianzen were present decreed presbyterum si vxorem duxerit ab ordine suo deponi debere that a priest should be deposed from his order if he married a wife In the olde councel of Ancyra we finde this decreed concering Deacons Quicunque Diaconi tacuerunt Concil Ancyran cap. 10. susceperunt manus impositionem professi continentiam si postea ad nuptias venerini à ministerio cessare debebuÌt What Deacons so euer helde their peace when they tooke orders and receiued the laying on of the Bishops hande so hauing made their profession of continencie if afterwardes they come to marrie they ought to ceasse from the ministerie The Fathers of the councel of Gangra Concil Gangren in fine in the ende of their decrees concluded with these wordes Haec auÌt scripsimus non qui in Ecclesia Dei secunduÌ Scripturas sanctuÌ proposituÌ Continentiae eligunt vituperantes sed eos qui abutuntur proposito in superbiam extolluntur aduersus simpliciores abscindimus c. We haue written these thinges not reprouing them which in the Church of God according vnto the scriptures doo choose the holy Vow or purpose of continencie but we cutte of by excommunication those that abuse suche purpose to pride and becomme haulte and lofty against the simple The CouÌcel of Laodicea speaking of Priestes DeacoÌs Concil LaodiceÌs cap. 24. and others that haue geueÌ them selues ouer to liue in the holy ministratioÌ saith noÌ oportere eos qui in proposito contineÌtia sunt tabernas intrare that they who haue purposed to keepe Chastitie may not be haunters of Tauernes Origen Origen in Numer homil 23. whom I may wel allege for a witnesse of the Church of his time saith that none may offer the coÌtinual Sacrifice but such only as haue vowed coÌtinual Chastitie The auncient Fathers of the Churche who ordeined the vowe of Chastitie to be made by them that would be admitted to holy Orders were moued thereto partly by the holy Ghoste author of al purenesse partly by the deuotion of them selues that came to the holy ministerie partly also by the Tradition of the Apostles who touching chastitie of ministers made this Decree Exijs qui coelibes in Clerum peruenerunt iubemus vt lectores tantuÌ cantores Canonum Apost can 25. si velint nuptias contrahant Of them that haue comme to the clergie single we commaunde that the Readers and singing men marrie if they wil and none elles Some of our married Priestes of England wil here perhappes saie vnto me Sir when I was made Priest I made no vowe Vovv of Chastitie made in facte though no vvordes be spoken nor promised at al to liue the single life For I said nothing to the bishop that laid handes vpon me and he required no such thing of me How am I then a Votarie And why may I not marrie To whom I answer you tooke this charge vpon you before you came to be made Priest when you tooke Subdeaconship For that is the first among the holy Orders Vnto which for so much as the vowe of Chastitie by common Tradition by special statute and ordinance of the Church is annexed in taking that Order you hounde your selfe ipso facto that is to say Promises other aÌd Grauntes made in deede vvithout vvorde in fact it selfe to that condition which thereto belongeth For Vowes Promises Othes Grauntes and such other the like may be made and professed by facte and dede though wordes of vowing promising swearing or graunting be not expressed Many a man that marrieth a wife doth not tel her before or at the time of marriage with expresse wordes that he wil loue her cherish her keepe defend and mainteine her render wedlocke duetie vnto her c Yet in that he marrieth her al these he is bounde to performe as being vnderstanded to be conteined in the condition of marriage and hath promised no lesse by taking her to wife And if being required of the wise to render these dueties vnto her he refuse and say nay wife thou shalt pardoÌ me I neuer made thee promise to do this much for thee may not she say againe why husbaÌd you haue married me and that is promise ynough The partie that taketh an Othe commonly saith nothing but by laying his hande vpon a booke and by kissing the booke or as the custome is in some countries by holding vp his two forefingers geueth his consent and protesteth to doo that is included in the condition of the othe Some time menne geue consent to a thing not by speaking ought at al but by going vnto a side which of the olde Romaines was termed pedibus ire in sententiaÌ The Souldier Souldier by taking his badge and yelding his name to be booked which is a deede though he speake nothing promiseth and so farre forth bindeth him selfe to obey his Captaine and to abide the fortune of warre The GeÌtiles in old time that receiued CircuncisioÌ who were called Proselyti Proselyti by that very facte made Vowe and protestatioÌ to perfourme what Moyses law required though they said nothing And many a Christian
man in the time when the faith was persecuted by heathen TyraÌtes made promise and profession of Idolatrie Thurificati onely by casting a litle frankencense into the Fier when they vttered no wordes of Idolatrie at al. Many other such exaÌples might here easily be rehersed by which it is declared that a man in some cases voweth promiseth and professeth a thing good or euil in acte and deede where wordes of Vowe promise or professioÌ be not spoken And to this sense the common English prouerbe if it may be applied to so sad a matter leadeth vs As good is a becke as a Dieu garde wherby is meant a coÌsent Vovv of Chastitie made in silence Concil Ancyran cap. 10. geuen by dede without worde But what neede I to proue this by examples The plaine texte of the tenth CanoÌ of the most auncient CouÌcel of Ancyra aboue rehersed putteth this matter out of doubte Where it is said of Deacons that if when they receiued the Bishops laying on of hand vpon them they required not licence to marrie but helde their peace thereby professi continentiaÌ be the wordes of the Councel hauing vowed promised or professed to continew in Chastitie in case afterward they married they should geue ouer the holy ministerie Lo there by taking the holy order only without wordes of a Vowe expressed the promise and Vow of Chastitie is by those learned Fathers pronounced to be made Neither is the partie that after holy Orders taken marrieth excused by that he ceaseth from the ministerie The cessation from the ministerie is a pounishement in the courte of man there remaineth to such a one an other pounishmeÌt in the courte of God for his breache of promise Thus it is cleere that the Priestes of England were Votaries as wel as other Priestes of the Latine Church be which M. Iewel only vpon warrant of his owne auctoritie denieth Sith then it is so Reader that M. Iewel keepeth him selfe a luffe of and wil not come to the point wherein the controuersie lyeth not being hable in deede to iustifie the marriage of them that haue taken holy Orders or otherwise haue made Vow of Chastitie I thinke it good here briefly to reherse the summe of his allegatioÌs wherwith he hath blotted so much paper about this matter The summe of M. Ievvels allegations for proufe of priestes marriages Hauing denied the Priestes of EnglaÌd to be Votaries he bringeth in sayinges of Fathers reporting that Virginitie is a harde thing and that it is not in our choise but the mere gifte of God Which thing as it maketh nothing to the present purpose so I graunte to be true We ought not to choose that state of life but vpon good trial of our selues But when we haue taken that yoke vpon vs it behoueth vs to pray for the assistance of Gods grace and to vse al suche good meanes by whiche we may atteine helpe towardes the perfourmance of our promise Then he allegeth other sayinges counseling those that either can not or wil not keepe Chastitie to take the remedie that God hath ordeined that is to say to marrie Which counsel is vnderstanded to be geuen vnto them that haue made no Vow at al to the contrarie After this he bringeth in certaine testimonies speaking in fauour as they seeme of marriage after a Vow of Chastitie taken out of S. Cyprian S. Augustine Epiphanius S. Hierome In al which places those holy Fathers are to be vnderstanded to speake of them that haue made a secret or simple Vow as they terme it and not a Solemne Vow Neither doo they allow such marriages simply Bonifac. 8. in c. vnico de voto in 6. The determination of the Churche in vvhat case of a Vovve made marriage holdeth in vvhat case it holdeth not For vvhat reason marriage holdeth in the case of a Simple Vovv othervvise in the case of a Solemne Vovve but in coÌparison of a woorse iniquitie The matrimonie of such is not to be dissolued yet is the breache of their promise a mortal sinne Now so it is by determinatioÌ of the Church that a SoleÌne Vow is made at the professioÌ of any approued ReligioÌ and at the taking of holy Orders and by whom such Vow is made they may not go backe to marriage neither if they marrie doth that marriage holde but is taken for none In the case of a simple Vowe marriage standeth for good and may not be dissolued albeit the partie who Vowed and promised the contrarie by contracting marriage as I said sinneth mortally The reason hereof is this In a Simple Vowe there is made but a bare Promise and the dominion of the thing which is promised remaineth stil with him that promiseth But in a Solemne Vowe there is not onely a promise but also a deliuerie made of the thing that is promised asmuche to say of him selfe and so there is also an acceptation and a possession to the interest of Christ taken of the Churches part This is the differeÌce betwixt both And it is a thing natural and apperteining to the lawe of al nations that a bare promise be of lesse efficacie then the exhibitioÌ surrendre and deliuerie of PossessioÌ of the thing that is promised He that hath promised one a howse or a portion of Lande hath not yet taken away from him selfe the dominion of the thing Wherefore if afterward he make deliuerie of it to an other the deliuerie shal stand for good Yet to the other he is bounde to make recompense which commonly is iudged to be the valour of the thing promised And he that hath now deliuered vnto an other a howse or Lande hath altogether depriued him selfe of the dominion thereof neither can he now geue it to an other as being an others thing The case is like in the Vowe of Chastitie which is a certaine coÌtracte betwen man and God And reason it is that what we acknowlege ourselues bound to perfourme vnto maÌ in a worldly coÌtract we be bound to perfourme no lesse vnto God in this spiritual coÌtracte The bare promise made to God differeth much from the exhibiting and therfore if after a simple Vow of Chastitie which coÌsisteth in promise only a man deliuer his body to another which thing is done by Matrimonie the deliuerie standeth firme and good But if he geue vp also his owne body to keepe chastitie vnto God and by entring into some Religion or by taking Orders now he can not dispose of it otherwise as not being in his dominion neither if he attempt it shal it stand for good This muche touching the diuersitie of a Simple and Solemne Vow I thought necessary to be said in this place This much being weighed and considered it must appeare certaine that the places which M. Iewel allegeth out of S. Augustine affirming the mariages of such as marrie after the Vow of chastitie to be true mariages and to be such as may not be dissolued are truly vnderstanded of
to marrie a wife or no here I dispute not I confesse the Single state of the Clergie not to be Iuris Diuini expressely but Iuris Ecclesiastici positiui And to say that the Pope may in no case at al dispense with a Priest of the West Churche or with a religious person to marrie it is against the Diuines against the Canonistes and against the authoritie Raymeriâ made kiÌg of AragoÌ of a MoÌke and married by dispensation See the historie of Franciscus Tarapha which the Churche of Rome hath in some cases vsed de facto as they speake as it is knoweÌ by the example of Raymeris the king of Aragon in Spaine with whom about the yere of our Lorde 1160. the Pope dispensed yea he compelled him as we reade to geue ouer the Profession of his Religion and to marrie whiche is more then to dispense with a secular Priest for sauing of Christian bloud and for the necessary disposition of that kingdom The like example happened in the kingdome of Pole Casimirus the onely that remained a liue of the kinges bloud Munster Cosmographiae lib. 3. in Schlesia lib. 4. in Polonia Mart. Cromerus being a Moonke and a Deacon by sute of the Nobles of that realme Dispensation of the Pope obteined was taken out of his monasterie of the Order of Cisterce made Kinge of Pole and married But suche a singular case maketh no common rule Againe where a thing is not done but by special dispensation the dispensation it selfe argueth the same of it selfe that is to say considered without dispensation to be vnlawful Therefore my Assertion that no man may marrie after holy Orders receiued and that such Marriage was neuer accompted lawful in the Catholique Churche standeth true as before Iewel Athanasius saith Athanas ad Dracontium Multi quoque ex Episcopis matrimonia non inierunt Monachi contrà Parentes liberorum facti sunt Many of the Bisshoppes he saith not al but many haue not married By vvhiche vvoordes he geueth vs to vnderstande that some haue married contrarievvise Monkes haue becomme fathers of Children Harding This testimonie is bodged with your forged Parentheses Whereby you signifie that of it selfe and without addition of your owne wordes it helpeth you litle Al standeth vpon trial of the translation If you could haue alleged S. Athanasius owne wordes as he wrote in Greeke a right answere might soone be made The translatour litle thinking of their sleightes that be Proctours for the Marriages of Votaries had rather hauing respect to the finenesse of the Latine so to turne it then otherwise If the place were thus latined Multi ex Episcopis matrimonia non inierant or non habuerunt Monachi contrà parentes liberoruÌ extiterunt whereby is signified that many Bishops had neuer contracted Marriages and that some Monkes had ben fathers of children if the place had thus benne turned as I suppose the Greeke hath it would haue serued you to no purpose For I graunt you that some bishops haue had wiues but before they were made Bishops as Spiridion S. Gregorie Nazianzenes father and Gregorie of Nyssa S. Basils brother and that some Monkes were fathers of children whiche they begote in lawful wedlocke before they entred into that profession and order of life Albeit if we allowed you this translation for good and true according to the Greeke yet of these woordes you can not conclude that by iudgement of S. Athanasius the Marriages of bishops are accompted lawful by the circuÌstance of the place in that Epistle to Dracontius S. Athanasius may seeme to speake those wordes in dispraise of certaine Bishops and Monkes and not at al in their commendation and so you ought not to allege it for an allowed example But hereof we shal be more assured if they of Basile wil sette foorth that Fathers workes in Greeke Iewel Pag. 176. Cassiodorus vvriteth thus Cassio li. 6. cap. 14 In illo tempore ferunt Martyrio vitam finisse Eupsychium Caesariensem Episcopum ducta nuper vxore dum adhuc quasi sponsus esse videretur At that time they say Eupsychius the Bishop of Caesaria died in Martyrdom hauing married a vvise a litle before being as yet in manner a nevv married man Harding A man would thinke if this wil not serue the turne that nothing wil serue A blessed man Eupsychius bishop of Caesaria a holy Martyr married to a wise but a litle before his Martyrdome The writer of the Storie Cassiodorus a noble man and graue Senator of Rome a man of good credite What can a man desire more But phy vpoÌ such shamelesse falsifiers O lamentable state A falshod in excusable and in tollerable of M. Ievv where the people of God be coÌpelled to heare such false Prophetes What wil he feare to speake in pulpite where he is sure no man shal control him that is not ashamed thus to write in bookes openly published vnto the world which he knewe should not escape the examination of his Aduersaries The truth is good Reader Neither Cassiodorus wrote thus nor Eupsychius was euer Bishop of Caesaria nor of any other place nor so much as a Priest Deacon or Subdeacon The writer of the Storie which we haue of this blessed Martyr Eupsychius is Sozomenus the Greeke Who with the Ecclesiastical Storie of Socrates and Theodoritus was translated into Latine by one Epiphanius Scholasticus out of whiche three Cassiodorus gathered the AbridgemeÌt that we haue vnder the name of the Tripartite historie Histor Tripartit lib. 6. c. 14 The place truly reported hath these wordes In illo tempore ferunt vitam finisse Martyrio Basilium Ecclesiae Ancyranae Presbyterum Eupsychium Caesariensem Cappadociae ducta nuper vxore cùm adhuc quasi Sponsus esse videretur They say that at that time Basiliê° a Priest of the Church of Ancyra ended his life in Martyrdom Also Eupsychius the Caesarian of Cappadocia hauing married a wife a litle before and when as yet he seemed to be but a new married man Here is no mencion made that Eupsychius was the bishop of Caesaria The storie as we haue it in Latine of Epiphanius turning calleth him only Eupsychium Caesariensem Cappadociae that is to say Eupsychius a maÌ of Caesaria that is in Cappadocia whiche is added to signifie of whiche Caesaria he was for that there was an other famous Citie of that name in Palestina an other likewise in Mauritania and others moe in other countries Sozomenus him selfe who is the authour of the Storie addeth a worde more signifying of what estate and condition he was whereby the opinion of his being the Bishoppe of Caesaria is quite taken awaye For thus he reporteth of him in the Greeke Sozomen lib. 5. c. 11 ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã i. EupsychiuÌ Caesariensem Cappadociae PatriciuÌ asmuch to say Eupsychius of Caesaria in Cappadocia a nobleman or one of the Lordes of the Citie Thus is Eupsychius whom M. Iewel hath made a Bishop as much as
he is him selfe founde to be a Laie gentleman or noble man of the Citie of Caesaria And whereas he married a wife but a litle before his Martyrdome what is that to the purpose for proufe that it was in olde time lawful for Priestes to marrie Bicause M. Iewel knew this muche rightwel contrary to the custome he vseth at other times he dissembled the greeke Original and thought he might better father this shameful lye vpon Cassiodorus meaning the latine Translation of Epiphanius And to helpe the matter An impudent falsifying he stickte not to put in this word Episcopum Bishop of his owne and so calleth him boldely Eupsychius the Bishop of Caesaria Let these menne haue leaue thus to corrupte and falsifie the Fathers and by them they shal be hable to proue what they liste M. Iewel standeth so muche in his owne conceit for the example of this Eupsychius Nicephorus belyed by M. Ievv Defence pag. 514. that for proufe of this very matter he bringeth it in againe in an other place in his pretensed Defence of his Apologie But there he allegeth it out of Nicephorus His wordes be these Nicephorus saith that Eupsychius being a Priest at Caesaria in Cappadocia married a wife a litle before that he was martyred Now let vs heare Nicephorus tel his owne tale Nicephorus lib. 1â cap. 20. Thus he saith in like sorte as Sozomenus said before him Hoc ipso tempore Basilius Ancyranae Ecclesiae Praesbyter martyrio est defunctus atque item Caesariensis Eupsychius Cappadox veteri familia locoque claro natus At the very same time Basilius a Priest of the Church of Ancyra died a martyr Euen so likewise did Eupsychius the Caesarian of Cappadocia borne of an auncieÌt howse and of noble pareÌtage Thus hath M. Iewel belied and falsified both Sozomenus and his translator and also Nicephorus Let vs see what substantial witnesse he bringeth for legitimation of his Priestes Marriage in the last place Dist 84. Cum in praeteritâ in Glossa Iewel Likevvise M. Harding might haue founde it noted in his ovvne Glose ãâ¦ã M. Ieâel saith of my ãâ¦ã seemeth ⪠that than he ãâ¦ã Nicepherus spââ¦king of the two Apollinarâs Father and Sonne both heretiques Apollinaris the elder not married after he was made Priest saith Pâter Presbyters filius Lectâris ordineâââ¦tiâebat the Father obteined the Order of a Priest the sonne of a Pâââder Of this it seemeth not that the father was married after thââ he obteined to be a Priest but rather contrariwise that he was married before he was Priest For Niââphârââ saith the father obteined to be a Priest whereby he seemeth to signifie if we may say what seemeth to vs that he was a father before he was made Priest and not first a Priest and afterward married and so made a father But perhaps M. Iewel gââherâth his seeming of these wordes following in Nicephorus Senex Alexandriaeâriââ Beryti dâcâit âucta Laodicia coniâgâ Apollinariâ filiâ⦠progeââit âsmuche to say The olde mââ was borne at Alâxandria ââught aâ Berytuâ married a wife at Laodiceâ and begâââ Apollinaris his sonne Of this order of wordes he can concludâ no more that the older Apollinaris was married after that he was Priest then that he was borne at Alexandria after that he was an old man If he could proue that he was an old man bââore he begote the yonger Apollinaris and that he was Priest before he came to Laodicea when he married then should he seeme to proue that an Heretique was married after he was Priest as many be now adaies Vntil he proue so much which sââl a ãâã this his seeming ãâã seeme litle worth Chrysost in Epist. 1 ad Timo. Homil. 1â Iewel Chrysostome speaking of the Marriâge of Bishops saith thus Quamuis nuptie pluâimum diâââuâtatis in sâ habââââ ita tamen assumi possunt ãâã perfectiori vitae impedimento non sint Notwithâââââing marriage haue in it much trââble yet so it may be taken that ââ¦shalbe no hinderance to perfite life He saith marriage may be takââ or chosen and he speaketh namely of the marriage of Priestes and Bishoppes Harding Why nipte you of the ende of the sentence M. Iewel M. Ievvel nippeth of vvordes of his doctor Though you nor your good brethren the married Apostates like not wel of them yet for true dealinges sake you should not so haue gelded your Doctor of the wordes that so iointly hang to the sentence by you alleged They be these It is a hard thiÌg that marriage should not be a lette vnto the perfites life by iudgemeÌt of S. Chrysostom Verum id planè perquam rarò atque difficile Marriage may be so taken that it shal not be a lette vnto the perfiter life so much goeth before but certainly that is a thing very seldome and of great difficultie Doo ye heare syr what your owne Doctor saith That marriage be not an impediment vnto perfiter life which Priestes doo professe it is very seldome seene and a thing of very great difficultie saith your Chrysostome Here good Reader that thou be not begyled I must tel thee this muche Whereas M. Iewel beareth thee in hand that S. Chrysostome saith Marriage may be taken or chosen and that of Priestes and Bishops for of their Marriage he speaketh saith this manne al this is false M. Ievvel buildeth his prouf vpoÌ a forged sentence added vnto S. Chrysostome For first vnderstand thou this sentence is not in S. Chrysostome at al not in the Greeke I saie in which tongue only he wrote For I haue seene the Greeke and diligently conferred it my selfe But it is added vnto his texte either by the translation or by falshod vsed at the printing as in these corrupte times false printers haue corrupted many bookes of the olde Fathers Yet this muche wil I say of this sentence that it may right wel stand without any euil mââning gathered of it though ãâ¦ã be not S. Chrysostomââ the Greeke examples supposed to be true For the Circumstance of the place beareth it to be spoken not specially of the Marriage of Priestes and Bishoppes as M. Iewel taketh it in this place but of Marriage indefinitely and generally as it maie be proued if there were nothing elles to proue it by the same M. Iewel in an other place namely in the page 179. before where he saith thus in the first line of that page S. Chrysostome saith generally of al menne Quamuis nâptia plurimum difficultatis habeant c. Thus M. Iewel in the 514. page is confuted by M. Iewel in the 179. page Of such Contradictions he hath good stoare That it may appeare the plainer thus is it that we reade in S. Chrysostome Iâ prim cap Titi. hom 2. Si igitur qui vxorem duxit c. Then if it be so that he which hath married a wife be careful for the thinges of the worlde and of conuenience a Bishop should not be touched
with any suche care how said the Apostle before vnius vxoris virum that a Bishop should be the husband of one wife Some vnderstand such a one to be signified by these wordes that shal be made a Bishop after his wiues death Albeit he that hath a wife may be as one not hauing And this much he graunted them very wel in consideration of the time 1. Cor. 7. and nature of the thing as the case then stoode And a man may take that thing honestly and lawfully if he wil. For as richesse doo hardly bring a man into the kingdom of Heauen yet often times many riche men haue there entred in so also doth marriage Thus farre goeth the greke in S. Chrysostom and no further touching this matter For immediatly follow not the wordes that M. Iewel buildeth his proufe vpon but other wordes coÌcerning an other thing as euery learned man may see in the ââ¦nted Greeke booke in the 20. leafe the seconde pag. tââ 20. line You might haue sene this in the Greeke M. Iewel or your Greeke Frende for you aswel as you saw that other place of S. Chrysostome by me truly alleged and traÌslated where he expoundeth these wordes of S. Paul Tit. 1. ho. 2 The husbande of one wife Which place you wring and wrâst very violently to serue your purpose and yet it wil not be M. Ievv in his defence pa. 175. vseth false traÌslation and the learned may easily perceiue your false iuggling in it There you wil nedes haue ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã to signifie the wife that is gonne from her husband by diuorce and therefore you turne it Vxori quae decessit à se whereas you should haue followed the allowed translation that is in vse which hath Defunctae vxori the wife deceassed or departed this life So I haue turned the place in my Confutation according to the Greeke and as the common Latine translation hath Consider therefore how impudently you reproue me without cause First in the margent of your booke ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Pag. 164. ouer against this testimonie of S. Chrysostom truly translated by me out of the Greeke worde for worde For whereas be ââepeth no beneuolânce towarde his wife deceased how can he be a good gouernour You haue set this odious note of reproufe directing it by your sterre vnto the worde deceassed * Vntruthe For M. Harding fowly mistaketh S. Chrysostomes meaning And there again immediatly * Vntruth standing in false exposition Not being content with this in your teâte page 174. lin 3. you say further Those wordes M. Harding in his translation hath purposely falsified I haue not purposely falsified them M. Iewel for they be not myââ but they be the wordââ of the common trââslation and the same iâ according to the Greeke For thâ verbe ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã signifieth not to departe away by diuorce as you haue violently turned it but simply to departe or goe awaye and sometimes as in this very place to departe out of this life You might haue learned so much of the common Greeke Lexicon VVhat secoÌd marriage not forbiddeÌ by the lavves Now that S. Chrysostome is so to be vnderstanded S. Chrysostome him selfe clearely sheweth in wordes of the same sentence there For whereas he speaketh of that second marriage which he confesseth not to be forbidden by the lawes what other second marriage meaneth he but that when as a man marrieth againe after the deceasse of his first wife For I trow you wil not say that the lawes after Christes comming among Christian men permitted a man to marrie againe his wife being aliue and so to haue two wiues at once specially in the case which your translation importeth that is when the wife is not put away for Aduoutrie of her parte but departeth from the husband which she may not do but for aduoutrie of his parte It is not likely S. Paule would debarre a man from comming vnto the dignitie of a Bishop that had two wiues at once For such a one excepte he repented and had put awaye from him one of them was not admitted to be made a Christian man What trow ye that he required not a farrâ moââ pârfection in him that was to be made a Bishop Thus you see good reason why Ambrosââs-Cââildâleâsis that learned man traÌslated ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã for that is S. Chrysostoms word and not ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã as you haue noted in your bookes margent by this worde Defunctae and why I turned it the wife disceassed You may now of your courtesie take backe againe your bitter reproches of fowle mistaking of false exposition of purposed falsifying to your selfe For these special qualities be proued to be yours they be not myne For two other testimonies in proufe of Priestes Marriage M. Iewel craueth helpe at Erasmus and Cornelius Agrippa Thus he saith Iewel Erasmus saith The Priestes of the Greeke Church this daie not vvithstanding their Orders marrie vviues The like vvriteth Cornelius Agrippa against the Iouanians Harding Erasmus and Cornelius Agrippa Erasmus and Cornel Agrippa be menne of smal credite God wote in this cause which in their time they fâuoâred as much as you do now It is coÌmonly reported you know for a vaine shifte of a theefe to say Aske my fellow whether I be a theefe or no. Herein we are moued with the authoritie of these two smatterers of your Gospel in their daies but newly brocâed no more then if we heard Frier Luther Monke Hâpâr Peter Martyr the regulare Chanon of S. Augustines order and suche other married Apostates to speake a good worde in fauour of their vnlawful yokinges How be it the truth is both Erasmus and Cornelius Agrippa belye the Greeke Churche herein as the Doctours of the Sorboâe in Paris haue in their Censures againste Erasmus truely declared For by the lawe it was neuer nor yet is to this day lawful in the Greeke Churche for Priestes to marrie wiues after that they haue taken the holy Order of Priesthoodâ Ieââl Likevvise Cardinal Caietânâ saith Nec ratione nec authoritatâ probari potest Caietan in Quod libet quod absolute loquendo Sacerdos peccet coÌtraheÌdo matrimonius ⪠It can not be proued neither by reason nor by aâthâritie speaking absolutely that a Priest offendeth God ãâã marrying a vvife Harding Cardinal Caietane hath his errours for which he hath ben reproued and confuted We are not bound to mainteine what so euer he saith How be it this saying of his seemeth to haue no great errour VVhere of is it that the Marriage of Priestes in the vvest Church is vnlavvful Statute of the Churche and Vovvannexed so it be vnderstanded as he meant There be two thinges that make the marriage of Priestes in the most Church vnlawful the Sâ⦠of the Church and the Vow annexed The Statute and coÌstitution of the Church bindeth clerkes receiuing holy Orders neuer to marrie As touching
commonly I answere to euery thing by the Apologie obiected vnto the Catholikes in your preteÌsed Defence you laie much of my ConfutatioÌ together and in your Answere either you touch no point by me confuted or very few pointes but fil your booke with new matter not perteining to the defence of that which is confuted taken as it seemeth out of the stoare of your Notebookes which Illyricus Frier Bale and certaine others of that cutte haue made to your hande Touching this present matter you would if you wist how persuade the worlde by the example of Gregorie Nazianzenes Father that a Bishop is not only not letted or hindred from doing that which belongeth to his duetie by hauing a wife but also muche holpen and that for being marrried he is the better hable to discharge the seruice of a Bishop To proue this you allege muche out of S. Gregorie Nazianzene in Epitaphie patris In vvhat respecte saith Nazianzen of his Mother that she vvas to his Father a leader c. And the wordes whiche you allege be there in deede Which wordes reporte that S. Gregorie Nazianzenes Mother was to his Father a helper a guide a Leader a Capitaine by worde and by deede training him vnto the best yea further that in Religion and godlinesse she was not ashamed to becomme his Maistresse Al this is true M. Iewel I confesse and yet it proueth not your purpose at al. How so M. Iewels falshed discouered Marke Reader and consider of it wel how M Iewel begyleth thee Gregorie Nazianzen hereof saith he that is of the helpe that his Father being the Bishoppe of Nazianzum had by his wife writeth thus Illa c. Here lyeth the deceite in that he maketh S. Gregorie Nazianzenes Father Bishop of Nazianzum when he had suche helpe of his mother as though it were credible that a Bishoppe should be taught of his wife how to teache his flocke the doctrine of our Religion If S. Gregorie Nazianzene had meant thus he had made his Father but a simple Bishop It is a weake flocke they say of sheepe where a Yew beareth the belle So truely it must be an infortunate Dioces where the Bishop is his Wiues scholare Gregorie NaziaÌzeÌ expounded Now Reader al these great crakes that M. Iewel vttereth here so liberally in thy iudgement must come to naught when thou vnderstandest the truth of this matter Thus then it is Gregorie the elder S. Gregorie Nazianzenes Father was a married man long before he was Bisshop and before he was married vnto his wife and also long after he was in Infidel She S. Gregories mother contrariwise was a Christian woman borne of Christian parentes and descended of a stocke that had ben Christian of long time Her learned sonne speaking of her ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã c. fol. 124. a. Aldi Hypsistarij vvhat menne they were in comparison of his Father saith that she was not taken out of the wilde Oliue and engraffed into the good Oliue as he was But that she had vertue and the true faith of Christe as by auncient inheretance from her godly forefathers Of him he saith that he was a branche of a Roote that was not to be praised that was not disposed to godlines that was not planted in the howse of God Touching the religion that he was of speaking more particularly of him he saith that he was one of them who were named Hypsistarij of whom I haue not readde but in S. Gregorie Nazianzene These Hypsistarij as he describeth them were neither altogether Heathens nor Iewes but as a man following S. Gregorie might terme them mongrels betwen both For as he saith of the Heathnish errour they exchewed Idolles and Sacrifices and yet honoured the Fier and Lampes and of Moyses lawe they had in reuerence the Saboth daie and vsed the Iewish superstition about certaine meates but Circumcision they vtterly refused Suche a one touching Religion was this Gregorie Now that vertuous and holy woman his wife on the other side taking great thought for her husband ând as her sonne writeth hauing great griefe at harte that being yoked together in wedlocke ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã they drewe not one waie together through diuersitie of faith that she was vnited vnto God but in respecte of halfe that the copulation of the spirite was not ioined with the bodily copulation being most desirous to remedie this and yââ not being ââble to bring it to passe she fâl downe saith hâ befoââ God daie and night she besought and craued of him the saluation of her husband with muche fasting and with many teares Withal she was instant vpon her husband to come to the Christian faith she vsed al the waies she could deuise whereby to winne him * ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã c. Gregorie the Fathers Vision with chidinges saith he with admonitions with * ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã c. Gregorie the Fathers Vision kinde and louing seruices with tokens of displeasure To be shorte * ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã c. Gregorie the Fathers Vision it coulde no otherwise be saith he but that the droppe of water with continual falling should at length make a hole in the stoane and that the thing in time should be brought to passe that was so earnestly intended There then speaking particularly of the meanes by which Gods prouidence brough him to Saluation and to become a Christian man among other thinges he saith that his Father was muche furthered with a vision in a dreame wherewith saith he God oftentimes benefiteth ãâ¦ã soule which he accompteth worthy to be saued It seemed vnto him in his dreame that he sange that verse of Dauid the Prophete Laetatus sum in ijs quae dicta sunt mihi in demum Domini ibimus Psal 121. that is to saye as he vttereth it out of the seuenty Interpreters It reioised me to heare them that said vnto me Come on let vs goe into the howse of our Lord. This vision he tolde his wife She being very glad of it as hauing assured hope that her long praier and desire was heard interpreting it to the best sense and signifying vnto him how great fauour God shewed vnto him made al the haste she could possibly that he were Christened fearing as her sonne writeth lest by differring some thing might happen in the meane while that should be a hinderance to that blessed calling and defeit al ãâã she had so much and so long gonne about to bring to affecte To be shorte within a while after she founde the meane that he was Christened by the holy Father Leontius Bishop of that Dioces at what time out of al coaster of the worlde the Bishoppes repaired to Nicaea there to holde a General Councel to the condemnation of the heresie of Arius After this he liued a holy life and at length by Gods prouidence he was promoted vnto the bishoprike of Naziânzum This much is though in a farre larger
processe declared by S. Gregorie Nazianzene in the Oration which he made at the burial of his Father Whereby it is made cleare to al menne how his Father was holpen by his wife not as being a Bishop as M. Iewel doth vntruly say but as yet being an Infidel That her sonne reporteth of her that she was vnto his Father a helper a guide a leader Faithful vviues haue ben cause of their husbandes conuersion to the faith Monica S. Augustines Mother laboured to coÌuert Patricius her husband Confessionum li. 9. cap. 9. a Captaine an instructour a teacher a maistresse in religion and godlinesse al this is to be vnderstanded of the time in which he remained an vnbeleuer not of the time in which he was Bishop of Nazianzum Herein she did the parte that many other godly and faithful wiues haue donne who haue vsed the like diligence and care to bring their husbandes being Infidels vnto the faith of Christe That holy woman Monica S. Augustines mother did the like with her husband Patricius of whom he writeth thus in his booke of Confessions speaking vnto God as there his manner is Tradita vira seruiuit veluti Domino sategit cum lucrari tibi c. When she was married out vnto her husband she serued him as if he had ben her Maister and tooke care how she might winne him vnto thee ô Lorde Againe he said there afterwarde Virâm sââm iam in extrema vita temporall eiuâ lucrata est tibi She wanne her husband vnto thee ô Lorde now in the ende of his temporal life In consideration that God oftentimes worketh such grace by the wife to the winning of the husband vnto God S. Paule requireth that a Christian woman put not awaie her husband from her being an infidel if he coÌsent to dwel with her For how knowest thou o woman saith he whether thou shalt saue thy husband or no 1. Cor. 7. Either you haue read these thinges M. Iewel in the place from whence you tooke the wordes which here you allege or you trusted the gatherer of your Notes If you trusted your gatherer you should haue tried the testimonie wel before you had spoken so peremptorily If you haue readde and seene al this in that you haue conceeled the truth and spoken so much to the contrary you shew your selfe to be one that is litle to be trusted Certainely al menne may nowe see howe iust cause I haue not to take these fittons and corruptions againe vnto me but to leaue them with you and to charge you with them as I did before in my Confutation of your Apologie After this M. Iewel bringeth in a great meany of Doctours sayinges with whiche they commende Marriage and seeme to blame them that despised and condemned Marriage and were of the opinion that a man could not be saued if he were married Whereunto I thinke al answere needeles for asmuch as we are not they that condemne Marriage as it hath now ben oftentimes said we esteme it as honorable and where marriage is lawful and lawfully vsed we accoÌpt that bed vnspotted and cleane as S. Paule calleth it Mary we say Heb. 13. that who soeuer haue bound them selues to liue in continencie by soleÌne Vow as Priestes and Religious persons for them it is not lawful to marrie and their Marriage is vnlawful or rather none at al. Against whiche doctrine M. Iewel hath nothing to say nor to allege and yet touching Marriage he hath filled a great deale of paper with the doctours sayinges So ready he is to bring muche and so litle hable to bring ought that maketh clearely for him What thinges certaine Fathers haue writen against impure heretikes dispraising marriage in al men VVith vvhat stuffe M. Ievv furnisheth out this pointe at large Defence Pag. 187. 188. 189. the same he allegeth now as if they were spoken against the Catholikes condemning the Marriage of these Apostates He bringeth in a long saying of Origen spoken of the Marcionistes and Cerdonistes and such others He allegeth Epiphanius against the filthy Origenians Chrysostome against wicked wemen that keping the name of Maides liued worse then hartlots in the Stewes Briefely so many mo as he founde old and late writers of al sortes speaking bitterly against the impune life of il menne and wemen Whereunto I answere briefly As al the married Apostates approche neare vnto the filthinesse of Deuils so some of the Catholique Clergie and religious personnes be farre from the purenesse of Angelles God geue vs al grace to amende that is amisse and you M. Iewel a better harte and more charitie towardes his Church With which grace being endewed you wil take lesse pleasure in reporting il of her Ministers I neede not here after this sorte to trauaile any farther in this matter against Maister Iewel What soeuer is beside that whiche I haue here answered in the whole booke of his pretensed Defence touching thâ⦠point it is either not worth the answering as altogether impertinent or sufficiently refelled in my former Confutation Compare the one with the other Christian Reader and if thou be hable to iudge of these thinges assure thy selfe my sayd Confutation maie satisfie thee for ought that M. Iewel bringeth Now bicause it were infinite to stand vppon euery pointe and to discusse so many tedious and impertinent allegations I thinke it more conuenient to vse an other waie and by laying together certaine his Vntruthes to make shorter worke M. Iewels Vntruthes and flatte Lies concerning the Marriage of Priestes and Votaries He steineth the authoritie of S. Hierome S. Chrysostome Pag. 165. S. Gregorie Nazianzen and diuers other learned and ancient Fathers as disgracing lawful Matrimonie and the Marriage of Widowes and Widowers He saith S. Hierome in Catalogo witnessed that Tertullian was a married Priest Pag. 166. The place wil shew this vntruth Albeit I denie not but that he was married before he was Priest and so were diuers others as Spiridion S. Gregorie Nazianzenes Father Gregorius Nyssenus and certaine others He saith S. Hilarie Bishoppe of Poitiers was married and that he prooueth by an Apocryphal epistle to one Abra his daughter These toies are vaine and more fabulous then Esops fables So he maketh Prosper the bishop of Rhegium a married man vpon a felender coniecture how soeuer it be it can not be prooued that he was married after that he was Bishop that is ynough for vs. He saith that Polycrates had seuen of his Fathers Bishops before him The meaning of the testimonie alleged for that purpose is that seuen of his howse and kinred had benne Bishoppes in his Churche before him For so signifieth the Greeke worde ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã as is before noted That which he allegeth vnder the name of Pope Damasus is intitled in the Decrees Palea as muche to say Chaffe by which name in the Decrees of Gratian that is signified which is by some other maÌ
added vnto Gratian and wel may this be so named bicause it is a thing forged and litle worthe And how could Damasus write of so many Popes whiche liued after his death certaine hundred yeres He saith alleging for his authour Fabian the late merchant of London Pag. 167. that Marriages of Priestes in England were free a thousand yeres together and yet it is euideÌt that the English Clergie was gouerned according to the order which our Apostle S. Augustin leaft who by S. Gregories rule might not allow married Priestes He saith the Priestes of England were neuer Votaries for proufe he saith boldely it is knowen and confessed which stout asseueration maketh weake proufe And were it so then surely if any had maried although he had sinned thereby yet the mariage should haue continued whiche is knowen to haue alwaies benne vsed otherwise He calleth the Vow of Chastitie an euil promisse Pag. 168. 169. and an vnhonest Vow whiche worde was neuer yet spoken by any good or honest man For our Ladie vowed her chastitie vnto God Luc. 1. as it is euident by the interpretation of many holy Fathers vpon S. Lukes Gospel He denieth primam fidem the first faith in S. Paule to be meant of the Vow of Chastitie Pag. 170. 1. Tim. 5. whiche is directly against the auncieÌt fathers doctrine For although it were expounded of baptisme also yet none but Heretikes euer denied it to apperteine to Vowes He beareth the world in hande as though we violently forced yong Maidens to receiue Vowes Pag. 171. It coÌmeth of their owne choise and of Gods grace and not of any constraint of ours He turneth Offerre to Minister the oblation or holy communion Pag. 172. whereas it is to make the oblation before that it be ministred He taketh halfe the sense of S. Paule awaye concerning those whom he exhorteth to absteine from the vse of wedlocke for a certaine time of praier as I prooued before He saith Paphnutius alone was proctour for the truth against the whole Councel of Nice Pag. 173. intending thereby to bring his reader in beleefe that one is better then three hundred and seuenteen For 318. Bishoppes were at that Councel Thus he seeketh to discredite Councelles He burdeneth vs as seming to say that the coÌpanie of man and wife is filthinesse which we say not but teach Marriage to be a SacrameÌt but yet as not betwen father and daughter so neither betwene Frier and Nonne He saith I haue falsified S. Chrysostoms woordes But it is not so Pag. 174 For S. Chrysostom saith that neither he that had two wiues at once nor he who had ben againe married after his first wiues death may be made Priest by S. Paules rule he speaketh of the seconde Marriage after the first wiues death saying Qui defuncta vxori beneuolentiam non seruat he that rendreth not good wil to his wife being dead how can he be a good gouernour ouer the Church So that by S Chrysostomes interpretation S. Paule literally forbiddeth him to be made Priest who hath had mo Wiues then one whether it were at once or one after an other He corrupteth the text of S. Chrysostom putting for the Greeke word ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã this Latine Pag. 175. Chrysost in epist ad Titum Hom. 2. quae discessit à se her that is gone froÌ him in stede of this worde defunctae which is dead His coniecture taken of the Greeke worde is void and nothing worth For ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã decedo doth signifie also to depart this life And it is plainer that S. Chrysostom expressely coÌfesseth this sense which we defend saying Quidam hoc ita intelligunt vt ad episcopatuÌ is assumatur qui vnius fuerit vxoris vir Some men do vnderstand this mater that he be taken to Bishophoode who hath ben the husband of one wife And that this last sense not being reproued of S. Chrysostome is the most literal sense it may appeare by these wordes of S. Paule Let her be chosen a widowe quae fuerit vnius viri vxor 1. Tim. 5. which hath ben the wife of one husband Wherefore as by the wife of one husband she is meant which hath not ben twise married so by the husbaÌd of one wife he likewise is vnderstanded that hath not ben twise married Cassiodorus saith M. Iewel writeth that Eupsychius who suffered Martyrdome being newe married Pag. 176. was a Bishoppe What a shameful corruption is this to adde the woorde Bishoppe vnto the text whereas it is euident by Sozomenus the authour of the Storie and by Nicephorus that Eupsychius was a laie gentleman of Cesarea in Cappadocia as is before declared What vile forgerie is this M. Iewel to turne a Gentleman or a Noble man into a Bishop only that a Bishop might seeme to haue married So litle can your Marriages of Bishoppes and Priestes be mainteined without Lies He leaueth out the better halfe of the Glose reciting that parte Pag. 175. which the Glose alloweth not leauing that which it alloweth He saith that a good and diligent Bishop serueth rather the better bicause of marriage But how vntruly he saith it it is before sufficiently declared Certainly I may say were it true then Christ who was the best Bishoppe that euer was and omitted nothing whereby he might haue ben most perfite would haue ben married He saith S. Paule gaue rules to the Clergie that Bishops Pag. 182. and Deacons should be the husbaÌdes of one wife the sense is not wel geuen It is to be vnderstanded that none other husbandes should be Bishops or DeacoÌs but such as had ben or were the husbandes of one wife He saith further immediatly after the former rule of one wife in the same tenour and course of speache S. Paule sheweth that some shal forbid to marrie This is false It doth not follow immediatly For there goeth betwen a coÌmendation of the Church which S. Paule nameth the piller of truth and likewise of the Incarnation of Christ After which wordes S. Paule saith â Tim. 4. The spirit saith plainely that in the last daies some shal depart from the faith From whiche faith Verely from that faith of the incarnation and that whereof the Churche is the piller Marke the worde discedent à fide Discedent à fide they shal depart from the faith He that departeth from the faith once had the faith We neuer had your faith M. Iewel neither in any other point nor in this concerning the marriage of Priestes But we had and haue the faith that the lawful Marriage of Christian persons is a Sacrament and that faith had you once when you were baptized and incorporate in our Church You are gon from that faith and not we S. Paul then teacheth that some shal forbid Marriages as the Manichees Encratites and Marcionistes did of whom the Apostle prophecied as S. Chrysostom and diuers other Fathers doo expounde
alleged For pride is no substance nor creature at al. Man only in his vnderstanding considereth it as somewhat whereas it is only a defecte and failing from humilitie For God neuer made vice Pride is a vice and therefore ãâ¦ã But what shal a man saie to this fellow When the name of Substance seemeth to make for him then it standeth properly as the Philosophers vse the worde which is in Greeke ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã but when it seemeth to make against him then it standeth for grace faith wordes and Sacramentes which in some writers are named Substance as the diuines somtimes vse the terme whereto the Greeke terme Hypostasis answereth as S. Paule vseth it Heb. 11. How the Church is resolued in doubtful cases The truth is that seing wordes for the more parte are doubteful ambiguous and subiect to cauilles Christ hath not planted his Church in such sorte vpon wordes that his faithful members should thereby be diuided into many sectes For as he considering our infirmitie lefte vnto vs his holy wil conceiued in such wordes as menne vse in their common speache he lefte also with those wordes a high Pastor Iohan. 21. Luc. 22. by whom we should be fed for whose faith he prayed and his prayer is heard To which chiefe Pastor he gaue power and commaundement to strengthen and coÌfirme his brethren So that it is in dede litle worth to hange of syllables and letters but it behoueth vs alwaies to seeke for the meaning of the worde And bicause we should neuer agree among our selues vpon wordes Math. 18. he bound vs to heare the Church the chiefe and ordinarie mouth whereof S. Peter was whiles he liued and after him the Bishops of Rome his Successours haue euer had the same place He then that wil be sure to know how euery worde that belongeth to matter of the faith must be taken in this or in that place of holy Scripture or of holy writers must be ruled by the mouth of his chiefe Pastor Act. 20. Now that Pastor calling to him out of al the worlde the chiefe and best learned Bishoppes ordeined by the holy Ghoste Gouernours of particular flockes hauing seene and heard al that might be said too and fro in the middest of foure hundred threescore and ten Bishoppes and of moe then a thousand learned Diuines besides the assistance of the holy Ghoste called for mature deliberation had and diligent examination of the Scriptures and holy Fathers made founde and by al their consente determined Concil Lateranen ca. 1. that the substance of bread and wine in the Sacrament of the Aulter is by the power of Gods worde changed into the substance of Christes Body and Bloud After whiche determination we know how Gelasius and how Theodoritus must of necessitie be vnderstanded if at the lest we wil heare the Churche as vnder paine of damnation we are bound to doo This answer may suffice al the cauilles that are moued and tossed by M. Iewel touching nature substance subsistence or any like worde Al wordes are ambiguous as S. Augustine confesseth In lib. de Dialecti The highest iudge in the highest courte of Christendome hath geuen sentence He that obeieth hath humilitie and seeth his grounde He that being loth to seeme deceiued wrangleth as M. Iewel doth is proude vaine contentious and disobedient which custome Heretikes haue and euer haue had but as S. Paule saith 1. Cor. 11. the Church of God hath it not Iewel Pag. 262. 263. To leaue these vnfruitful gheasses vve saie that the cuppe of blessing vvhich Christ calleth the Cuppe of the nevv Testament notvvithstanding it vvere made in a Mysterie the Sacrament of Christes Bloude yet in nature and substance vvas very vvine stil and as Christe him selfe calleth it the very fruite and generation of the grape as it vvas before The vvordes of the Euangelist S. Mathevv are very plaine Harding Would God I could so clearely shew to the Reader as the weight of this matter requireth how lewdly you playe as wel with the Gospel as with me It is not I M. Iewel that am incoÌstant in saying now these wordes were spoken before consecration and now after and perhaps at both times whereat you ieast and scoffe it is not I that changed my minde But whereas one of the Euangelistes telleth the matter one waye and the other an other waye and whereas sometimes they tel thinges out of order as your selfe can not but graunt my answer must needes be such as by al meanes to saue the truthe of the Gospel that howsoeuer these wordes were spoken which be obscure yet the plaine truth should not be hindred by them You sticke to the plaine wordes of S. Matthew as you saie And why sir I praye you may not I as wel claime that S. Lukes wordes are as plaine Luc. 22. I then haue myne eye to bothe and so make a distinction shewing how bothe together may be defended You litle esteming S. Luke talke to vs onely of S. Matthew whereby you declare that you beleue none other Euangeliste ne none other word of God beside your owne fansie Likewise you dissemble how diuersly the Fathers haue expounded the fruite of the Vine and vtter many wordes about a most knowen truth The fruit of the vine which no man denieth wherein as you deserue smal praise of learning so you lose amonge the wise the commendation of discretion For answer to al which I saie that it is a certaine case and cleere out of question that there was wine in Christes chalice whereof the SacrameÌt should be made and yet forsoothe you would nedes proue it in many Pages together Againe I say that as there was wine in the chalice whereof the Sacrament should be made so after it was made there was no more the substance of wine And that I wil proue so plainely That after coÌsecration there vvas no more the substance of vvine in Christes cup. Luc. 22. that you shal neuer be hable to answer to it Christe him selfe said if at the leste you admitte S. Lukes Gospel This Cuppe is the newe Testament in my Bloude whiche cuppe is shedde or shal be shedde for you The Cuppe shal be shedde for vs saith Christe that is to saye the liquour conteined in the Cuppe shal be shedde for vs. But natural or artificial wine was not shed for vs but onely Christes owne Bloude was shed for vs Ergo onely Christes owne Bloude is in that Cuppe and the substance of wine is not there at al. The wordes are plaine that which is in the Cup or chalice shal be shed for vs that was onely Christes Bloude Therefore onely Christes Bloude is in the Cuppe or Chalice But Christes Bloude is no wine excepte wee cal it wine in suche respecte as Christe him selfe is called the Vine and the grape Therefore no material wine of the common grape is in the Cuppe of Christes Supper Chrysost in 1. Cor. 10. With
of Christes flesh the onely meane of Resurrection to life And therefore your long talke is to no purpose which you vtter in this place They shal liue by the spirite of Christe who gaue them Faith and Charitie But doth not therefore S. Iohn speake also of real eating as though one effecte may not be wrought by diuers meanes concurring thereunto Ego saith Cyrillus id est Cyrill in IohaÌ li. 4. cap. 15. corpus meuÌ quod comedetur resuscitabo euÌ I wil raise him that is to say my body which shal be eaten shal raise him Thus you see plainely that touching this point no lesse Clerke then Cyrillus teacheth the same that I said which you haue vniustly and rashly controlled as you haue done the reste of the Catholike Doctrine That matters of faithe and ecclesiastical causes are not to be iudged by the Ciuile Magistrate The. 14. Chapter Iewel Pag. 637. That a Prince or magistrate maie not lavvfully calae Prieste before him to his ovvne seate of Iudgement or that many Catholique and godly Princes haue not so done and done it lavvfully it is most vntrue Harding I haue tolde you M. Iewel Confut. Fol. 299. ae that the duetie of Ciuil Princes consisteth in Ciuil maters and euer said that Bishoppes ought to be obedient to Princes in suche cases whither so euer they cal them And if they make any temporal Decree the Bishoppe who hath temporal goodes vnder the Prince must obey without grudge Confut. Fol. 302. ae or gaine saying so farre as the Decree standeth with the honour of God But that in Ecclesiastical causes and maters of Faith mere temporal Princes haue any authoritie of them selues to cal Bishoppes and Priestes to their Seates of Iudgement or euer did it lawfully we vtterly denie Ambrosius lib. 5. Epist 32. Priestes only ought to be iudges ouer Priestes by Theosius S. Ambrose said to the Emperour Valentinian Nec quisquà m contumacem iudicare me debet quum hoc asseram quod augustae memoriae patertuus non solùm sermone respondit sed etiam legibus suis sanxit in causa fidei vel ecclesiastici alicuius ordinis eum iudicare debere qui nec munere impar sit nec iure dissimilis Haec enim verba Rescripti sunt Hoc est Sacerdotes de Sacerdotibus voluit iudicare Quinetiam si aliâs quoque arguerelar Episcopus morum esset examinanda causa etiam hanc voluit ad Episcopule iudicium pertinere Neither any man ought to iudge me as stubborne seing I affirme that whiche your father of most renoumed memorie not onely answered in worde but also established by his lawes that in a case of faith or any ecclesiastical order he ought to be iudge that is neither vnequal in office nor vnlike in right or authoritie For these are the wordes of the Rescripte That is he would Priestes to be iudges of Priestes And also if otherwise a Bishop were reproued and a cause concerning behauiour and manners were to be examined he would this cause of manners also to apperteine to the Bishoppes iudgement Vpon these wordes of Theodosius alleged and allowed by S. Ambrose An argument prouing that a Ciuile Magistrat maie not be iudge oner Priestes in causes ecclesiastical and matters of Faith thus I reason with you M. Iewel He can not be iudge of Bishoppes and Priestes nor cal them to his seate of Iudgement in Ecclesiastical causes and maters of Faithe that is vnequal in office or vnlike in right and authoritie But the Prince is vnequal to the Bishop in office and vnlike vnto him in right and authoritie For he hath no right nor authoritie to sacrifice to preache to binde to loose to excommunicate and minister Sacramentes Therefore the Prince can not be iudge of Bishoppes and Priestes nor cal them to his seate of Iudgement in any ecclesiastical cause or mater of Faith Againe no man hath authoritie ouer his superiour But the Bishop in maters of Faithe and Ecclesiastical causes is superiour to euery Prince Therefore in those causes the Prince hath no authoritie ouer the Bishop And if he haue no authoritie ouer him he can not cal him to his seate of iudgement Furthermore were it true that the Prince were equal with the Bishop in Ecclesiastical causes and matters of faith yet could he not cal him to his seate of iudgement ff ad S. Trebel L. ille § TeÌpestiuum quia par in parem non habet potestatem bicause the equal hath no authoritie or power ouer his equal But to see M. Iewels arte in facing out this mater let vs consider the authorities that he bringeth to proue his purpose And bicause he blaseth this saying in the toppe of his margent with great letters VVhat it is to be conueÌted before a Magistrate Spiegelius in verbo conuenire A Bishop conuented before the Magistrate let vs first define what it is to be conuented before a Magistrate The lawiers saie Conuenire est aliquem in ius vocare To conuent a man is to cal him into the lawe and so Conueniri coram magistratu est in ius vocari à magistratu to be conuented before a magistrate is to be called into the lawe by the magistrate To cal a man into the lawe is a iudicial acte proceding of superiour authoritie in him that is iudge both of the partie so called and also of the cause wherefore he is called As if the Maior of London would conuent any of the Citizens he must both haue iurisdiction ouer that Citizen and also authoritie to iudge in that cause for whiche the Citizen shal be conuented But no ciuil magistrate hath authoritie by vertue of his temporal office to be iudge our Bishoppes in ecclesiastical causes as it is before proued and shal hereafter appeare Therefore no temporal magistrate can conuent any Bishoppe or Priest before him in any Ecclesiastical cause But let vs heare M. Iewel Cod. de Episcopis et clericis L. Nullus Iewel Pag. 637. Iustinian the Emperour him selfe vvho of al others most enlarged the Churches priuileges saith thus Nullus Episcopus inuitus ad ciuilem vel militarem iudicem in qualibet causa producatum vel exhibeatur nisi princeps iubeat Let no Bishop be brought or presented against his vvil before the captaine or Ciuil Iudge vvhat so euer the cause be onlesse the Prince shal so commaunde it Harding Seing Iustinian as you saie of al others did most enlarge the Churches Priuileges is it likely that he would most of al others breake them And whereas he made a lawe Authent 83. Coll. 6. vt Clerici apud proprios Episcopos that Clerici apud proprios Episcopos conueniantur primùm Clerkes shoulde be conuented first before their owne Bishoppes in causa pecuniaria in a money mater and afterwarde before the Ciuil Magistrate if either for the nature of the cause or for some other difficultie the Bishop could not ende it yet he
addeth priuilegijs omnibus custodit is quae reuerend issimis Clericis sacrae praestant coÌstitutiones al Priuileges kepte whiche the Emperours lawes doo graunt vnto the reuerend Clerkes And saith farther Si verò Ecclesiasticum sit delictum egens castigatione ecclesiastica mulcta Deo amabilis Episcopus hoc discernat nihil communicantibus clarissimis prouinciae Iudicibus Neque enim volumus talia negotia omnino scire ciuiles iudices quum oporteat talia ecclesiasticè examinari emendari animas delinquentium per Ecclesiasticam mulctam secundùm sacras diuinas regulas quas etiam sequi nostra non dedignantur leges If the faulte be ecclesiastical and neede ecclesiastical pounishment and discipline let the wel beloued Bishop of God iudge and discerne it and let not the honorable Iudges of the Prouince intermedle with it at al. For it is not our pleasure that Ciuil Magistrates haue at al the examination of suche matters seing suche matters must be examined ecclesiastically after the order of the Canons and the offenders must be punished by Ecclesiastical discipline according to the holy and diuine Canons whiche our lawes doo not disdaine to folow Seing Iustinian hath so ordeined no wise man that hath read his Lawes wil saie that either he in fringed those Priuileges or as one contrarie to him selfe made a lawe against the Liberties of the Churche without any mention of the former that he him selfe had made Wherefore Iustinian in the Law that you reherse M. Iewel is to be vnderstanded to speake of ciuil and teÌporal cases and that in those cases no Bishop should be brought before the Lieutenant and Ciuil Magistrate except the Prince so commaunded it Now whereas you vpon those wordes say that a Bisshop maie be conuented before a Ciuil Magistrate we graunt and euer so said that in Ciuil causes and temporal maters of which Iustinian speaketh Bishops may be coÌuented before a temporal Magistrate But that is not our question But this is that which we say The very point of this Question that it is not lawful for a Prince to cal a Priest to his seate of iudgemeÌt in Ecclesiastical causes And in this your owne authour Iustinian condemneth you He saith as you heard before Autent 83. col 6. vt Clerici Si ecclesiasticuÌ sit delictuÌ c. If the faulte be ecclesiastical let the welbeloued Bisshop of God iudge and discerne it Let the honorable Iudges of the Prouince intermedle nothing at al with it For we wil not that Ciuil Magistrates haue the examination of suche matters And againe Cod. de Episco clericis L. Clericus Si verò crimen sit Ecclesiasticum episcopalis erit examinatio castigatio If the faulte be Ecclesiastical the examination and pounishing of it shal apperteine vnto the Bisshoppe But peraduenture you wil replie to this and saie that Iustinian in the lawe by you rehersed speaketh not onely of Ciuil but also of ecclesiastical causes and willeth a Bishop in qualibet causa in any cause to be conuented before the temporal magistrate if the Prince do so commaunde If you or your lawier make this obiection we answer that it can not be shewed out of al Iustinians lawes Anthent 83. col 6. vt Clerici that he willed a Bishop or Prieste to be conuented before a temporal Magistrate in an Ecclesiastical cause or to be pounished for any hainous offence before he were degraded of his Bishop And hereof if you had but a meane smattering in the Ciuil Lawe you could not be ignorant Besides that already alleged you find in the Code this Lawe Cod. de Episco Clericis L. Statuimus Statuimus vt nullus EcclesiasticaÌ personam in criminali quaestione vel ciuili trahere ad iudicium seculare praesumat contrae coÌstitutiones imperiales canonicas sanctiones We ordeine and decree that no man presume to bring any Ecclesiastical person to the seate of iudgement of any seculare Magistrate in a criminal or ciuil cause contrarie to the Imperial Constitutions and canonical Decrees By this you see that it is against both the Emperours constitutions and Canons of the Churche that a Bishop should be conuented before a Magistrate in an Ecclesiastical cause As for the vantage which you seeke in those wordes In qualibet causa in any cause it is none at al. Had not you benne blinded with malice and your lawier with ignorance you might haue learned A Maxima amoÌg the lavviers that it is a Maxima and a Principle with the lawiers that Leges tales indefinitè loquentes intelligendae sunt secundùm aliam legem speciatim loquentem Such lawes speaking indefinitely must be vnderstanded by an other lawe that speaketh specially and particularly Wherefore seing the lawe Clericus in the Code and the Antentike vt Clerici in the new Constitutions make special mention that Bishops and Priestes should not be conuented before Ciuil Magistrates in Ecclesiastical causes and permitte no temporal Iudge to meddle with Ecclesiastical personnes excepte it be in Ciuil matters and that with a Limitation and a Prouiso also it had ben your parte and your blinde Lawiers also to haue vnderstanded those wordes In qualibet causa in any cause spoken there indefinitely by the other Lawes that speake more specially But then had you lost a peeuish sophistical Argument and menne had not knowen your worthy skil in the Lawe which no doubte wil appeare great by your practise Iewel pag. 637. 638. The Emperour Martianus coÌmaundeth if the cause be criminal that the Bisshop be conuented before the Lieutenant vt coram Praeside conueniatur Harding For your credite touching Martianus commaundement you referre vs to the Code of Iustinian L. Si qui ex consensu de Episco Audient L. Cum Clericis de Episco Clericis As for the first you may tel your lawier that he hath fouly deceiued you and therefore is not worthy to haue his fee. That lawe Si qui ex consensu Cod. de Episcop Audient was neuer made by Martianus the Emperour but by Arcadius and Honorius and requireth neither Bishop nor Prieste nor Clerke to be conuented before the Lieutenant but declareth that if any by mutual consent wil haue their matter debated before the Bishop as an arbiter it shal be lawful for them so to do as euery man that either considereth the law or readeth the Summe set before it may easily see M. Ievv forgeth As for the other lawe Cum Clericis although it be Martianus decree yet hath it not those wordes vt coram Praeside conueniatur that the Bishop be conuented before the Lieutenant nor any clause or sentence sounding to that pupose For trial whereof I referre me to the booke and to any indifferent man that can reade and vnderstande it But suppose it to be true that the Emperour Martianus had geuen suche a commaundement what could it aduantage your cause M. Iewel You should proue
that a Christian Prince may lawfully cal a Bishop to his Consistorie for matters of Faith and Ecclesiastical causes And not hable to do that you tel vs like a Trifler that if the cause be criminal a Bishop may be conuented before the Lieutenant And in so doing you prooue that which no man denieth As Cranmare Archebishop of Cantorburie was called to the Princes Consistorie Cranmare and imprisoned in the Tower for treason against the Quenes Maiestie and afterwarde degraded and burned at Oxford for heresie So any Bishop for like treason or like hainous and criminal offence may not only be summoned to the Princes seate of Iudgement but also be cast into prison and after degradation according to the Canons be depriued of his life This we do not denie But that whiche we denie and you should prooue for I must tel you one thing often bicause you are alwaies forgetful of the very point that is in controuersie is that in matter of Faith and in Ecclesiastical causes a Prince may cal Bishops to his consistorie as their superiour and gouernour in Ecclesiastical causes This is the matter in controuersie betwen you and the Catholiques M. Iewel Let vs heare how substanrially you proue that Iewel Pag. 638. Pope Innocentius 3. him selfe confesseth De maior obedient ca. 2. Innocent 11. q. 1. Cleric nullus that the Pope may make a laie man his Delegate to heare and determine in Priestes causes The like hereof ye maie finde in your ovvne Glose Papa laico delegat causam spiritualem The Pope committeth the hearing of a spiritual mater vnto a laie man Harding If any reason may be forced vpon the Authoritie of Innocentius and the Glose to your purpose it is this The Pope may make a Laie man his Delegate to heare and determine Priests causes Ergo Bishops and Priestes may be conuented before the Ciuil Magistrate in Ecclesiastical causes But to vnrippe the rudenes of this Argument imagine M. Iewel that you were infamous for Simonie and accursed for extorsion and vniuste exactions amongest the clergie of Sarisburie Dioces vnder the name of a beneuolence towardes the setting vp of your howse And that the Metropolitane hearing of it fearing least great dishonour should rise to your Person and infamie to the Gospel as ye cal it would haue the mater examined and to that ende sendeth a commission to the Maior and Bailiffes of Sarisburie and maketh them his Delegates to examine and enquire of your doinges and that the Maior and Bailiffes vppon vertue of that Commission from the Metropolitane conuent you before them Al this then imagined to be true shal it be said that M. Iewel was conuented in a cause of Simonie and extorsion before the Maior and Bailiffes of Sarisburie as Maior and Bailiffes of Sarisburie or as commissioners and delegates from the Metropolitane If you confesse that you were conuented before them as the Metropolitanes Delegates then must you confesse that you were not conuented before them as Maior and Bailiffes of Sarisburie and mere laie Magistrates In like manner when the Pope maketh a Laie man his delegate to heare and determine Priestes causes the Priestes cause whiche is hearde and determined by that Laie man so delegated by the Pope can not be said to be heard and determined by a Laie man as a Laie man but by the Popes Delegate And seing Extr. de offic Deleg c. Sanè Delegatus gerit vices delegantis a degate susteineth the steede of him that geueth him commission the Bishop or Priest who is conuented before the Popes delegate shal be said to be conuented before the Pope him selfe and not before the Laie Magistrate as a mere Ciuile and temporal Magistrate M. Ievvel begileth his Reader vvith false allegations But what meane you M. Iewel thus to begyle your Readers with false allegations Innocentius hath no such wordes as you reporte de Maior obedient cap. 2. Innocent Neither is the Decree that is there registred the Decree of Innocentius but of Gregorius and nothing at al God wote to the purpose for which ye allege it More ouer the Glose brought out of the 11. cause and first question saith not Papa Laico delegat causam spiritualem the Pope committeth the hearing of a spiritual mater vnto a Laie man but Si Papa if the Pope doo committe a spiritual mater to a Laie man And what then M. Iewel Forsooth in that case a Clerke maie be conuented before a temporal Iudge But that temporal Iudge is the Popes delegate and deriueth his authoritie from him as the Commissioners in London haue their authoritie from the Queene So that the exceptions there alleged by the glose proue ius commune esse in contrarium that the common lawe is to the contrarie that is that no Bishop or Prieste ought to be conuented before a Ciuile Magistrate Iewel Pag. 638. Yea further ye shal finde euen in the Popes ovvne Decrees that the Pope hath committed a spiritual mater in a cause of Simonie to be heard 2. q. 5. Mennam and ended by a vvoman and that Brunichildis being a vvoman by Vertue of the Popes commission summoned a Bisshop to appeare and solemnely to make his purgation before her Harding If the Pope did euer committe any spiritual cause to a woman VVhat vvas that Brunichildis had to do in the cause of Menna by coÌmissioÌ of S. Gregorie as you tel vs he did to Brunichildis Queene of Fraunce then was the Queene of Fraunce by your Confession the Popes commissioner in that cause and Delegate to heare and ende that mater of Simonie But what if we can not finde in the Popes Decrees to whiche you referre vs that the Pope euer committed a spiritual mater in a cause of Simonie to be heard and ended by a woman and that Brunichildis had neither commission from the Pope to summon a Bishoppe neither euer summoned a Bishop to appeare and solemnely to make his purgation before her What then shal we say but that M. Iewel is a shamelesse falsifier a deceiuer of al that beleeue him The wordes of that Decree being the woordes of S. Gregorie Grego lib. 11. epist 8. 2. q. 4. Mennam stand thus Mennam verò reuerendissimum fratrem coëpiscopum nostrum post quà m ea quae de eâ⦠dicta sunt requirentes in nullo inuenimus esse culpabilem qui insuper ad Sacratissimum corpus beati Petri Apostoli sub iureiurando satisfaciens ab ijs quae obiecta fuerant eius opinioni se demonstrauit alienum reuerti illum purgatum absolutúmque permisimus quia sicut dignum erat vt si in aliquo reus existeret culpam in eo canonicè puniremus Ita dignum non fuit vt eum adiuuante innocentia diutius retinere vel affligere in aliquo deberemus Purgationem tamen antè duobus sibi sacerdotibus iunctis vbi accusator cessauerit eundem ex se praebere tuo commisimus arbitrio We
Gods minister to see iustice ministred and the Violences and iniuries of his Lieutenantes and Officers pounished and these ciuil causes of Felonie Murder and Rape to be truely and thoroughly examined ad vindictam malorum to the reuenge of malefactours wrote his letters to al them that had ben at the foresaid conuenticle at Tyrus and required them to appeare before him as before the syncere minister of God and to render accompte of their dealing against Athanasius in those Ciuil cases Of this mater See the Returne Art 4. Item the Countreblast lib. 2 Cap. 2. 3 For he might wel doo it and nothing further M. Iewel in proufe of his desperate cause that a Bishoppe was conuented in maters of Faith and ecclesiastical causes before the Ciuil Magistrate as his lawful and ordinarie Iudge Iewel Pag. 638. Iustinian the Emperour in the lavve that he maketh touching the publique praiers of the Churche saith thus we commaunde al Bishoppes and Priestes to minister the holy oblation Authentica constit 123. and the prayer at the holy Baptisme not vnder silence but with suche voice as maie be heard of the faithful people to thintente the hartes of the hearers maie be stirred to more Deuotion c. Aftervvarde he addeth further And let the holy Priestes vnderstand that if they neglecte any of these thinges they shal make answere therefore at the dreadful iudgement of the great God and our Sauiour Iesus Christe And yet neuerthelesse we our selues vnderstanding the same wil not passe it ouer nor leaue it vnpounished Hereby vve see that Godly princes maie summone Bishoppes to appeare before them euen in causes Ecclesiastical to receiue such pounischement as they haue deserued Harding For answere to this or any thinge that you can bring out of Iustinian for breuities sake I referre you to Iustinian him selfe By whose constitutions and Godly lawes it maie easily appeare how farre he was from claiming superioritie ouer Bishoppes or gouernment as supreme iudge in causes Ecclesiastical as he who decreed according to the definitions of the 4. general Councelles that in Spiritual causes the Pope of the elder Rome should be taken for the chiefe of al Priestes and aduertised Pope Iohn that there should be nothing moued perteining to the state of the Churche but that he would signifie it to his Holinesse being Heade of al Churches and declared that in all his Lawes and dooinges for matters Ecclesiastical he gaue place to the holy Canons made by the Fathers and willed that when any Ecclesiastical matter were moued his Laie officers should not intermelde but suffer the Bishoppes to ende it according to the Canons In this very Constitution whiche you haue alleged with these special wordes he committeth the Iudgement and pounishment of al sortes of offences committed by them of the Clergie to such as the Canons haue put in authoritie Authentica constit 123. Thus he decreeth Quotiescunque aliquis vel Sacerdotum vel Clericorum vel Praesulum vel Monachorum vel de fide vel de turpi vita vel quòd contra sacros aliquid Canones peregerit accusatus fuerit si quidem is qui accusatus Episcopus fuerit huius Metropolitanus ea quae proferentur examinato Si verò Metropolitanus beatissimus Archiepiscopus sub quo censetur si Presbyter aut Diaconus aut alius Clericus aut Praesul Monasterij aut Monachus Religiosissimus Episcopus sub quo hi censentur delata in accusationem examinato veritate coÌprobata vnusquisque pro modo delicti Canonicis censuris subijcitor iudicio eius qui causae examinationem accommodat As often as any either of the Priestes or of the Clerkes or of the Prelates or of the Monkes is accused either of faith or of filthy life or that he hath done ought against the holy Canons in case he that is accused be a Bishop let his Metropolitane examine the thinges that shal be laid to his charge if he be a Metropolitan let the Archebishop vnder whom he is haue the examination If he be a Priest or a Deacon or some other Clerke or a Prelate of a Monasterie or some Monke let the Bishop vnder whose iurisdiction they are examine the thinges that be laid in accusation And when the truth is tried out let euery one abide the Censures of the Canons for the rate of the faulte by the iudgement of him that sitteth vpon the examination of the matter Againe how farre he was from the minde and wil that Bishops or any other whatsouer Ecclesiastical personnes should be summoned to appeare before him or his temporal officers in iudgement for any Ecclesiastical cause this expresse Decree which there also ye might haue founde sufficiently witnesseth Si Ecclesiasticum negotium sit nullam Communionem habento Ciuiles Magistratus cum ea disceptatione sed Religiosissimi Episcopi secundùm sacros Canones negotio finem imponunto If the matter be Ecclesiastical that is to be iudged let the Ciuile Magistrates haue nothing to doo with it But let the most Religious Bishoppes make an ende of it according to the holy Canons By these as also by the purporte of sundrie other Iustinians constitutions ordinances and decrees al menne maie see that he neither chalenged any supreme dominion ouer Bishops and Priestes in Ecclesiastical causes nor enacted this nor any other lawe as chiefe Gouernour of the Churche but followed the holy Councels and willed the Canons to take place and confirmed that which was decreed by them For special answer then to this special obiection made out of the 123 constitution I saie that Iustinian threatned to pounishe them with the seueritie of temporal lawes who would not be conteined in their duetie by Ecclesiastical discipline and order of the Canons that feare might force where loue and conscience could not binde Which policie we doo not mislike seing Duo vincula fortius ligant two bondes binde faster then one To be shorte Iustinian leaueth the correction of Clerkes offending in any thing against the Canons to the ceÌsures of the Canons And if any refuse to abide the order appointed by the Canons and vtterly shake of the yoke of the Canons then that is to say in the case of extreme stubbornesse and contempte of the Canons like a Godly prince he threateneth reuenge and pounishment In which case the Church doth now cal and alwaies hath called for the aide of the Seculare Arme against those that vtterly refuse to be corrected by the censures of the Church and seeme incorrigible So neither by the lawes of Iustinian neither by the example of Brunichildis neither by the Gloses that you so solemnely allege it can not be seene that Godly Princes might euer summone Bishops to appeare before them to receiue any pounishment at their handes as their superiours and supreme gouernours in ecclesiastical causes Peraduenture if we put on eyes of better sighte we maie see it hereafter if wee diligently attende what you saie Foorth therefore M. Iewel Iewel Pag. 638.
The Emperour Constantinus in his letters to the people of Nicomodia Theodorit li. 1. c. 19. speaking of the vvilful errours and heresies of Priestes and Bishoppes saith thus Illorum temeraria praesumptio mea hoc est ministri Christi manu coercebitur Their rashe attemptes shal be repressed by my hande that is to saie by the hande of Christes seruant August coÌtra epist Parme. li. 1. cap. 7. So likevvise S. Augustine saith to the Donatistes An fortè de religione fas non est vt dicat Imperator vel quos miserit Imperator Cur ergo ad Imperatorem legati vestri venerant Is it not lavvful that the Emperour or the Emperours deputie shoulde pronounce in a case of Religion VVherefore then vvent your ovvne Ambassadours to the Emperour Harding If you had said M. Iewel that Constantinus in his epistle to the Nicomedians had threatned to pounishe Bishoppes and Priestes that were Arians that is cursed and abominable heretiques you had in some parte said the truthe But where you saie that he spake of the wilful errours and heresies of Priestes and Bishoppes and adde not Arian Priestes and Arian Bishoppes you conceele parte of the true Storie and declare your malicious hart against Priestes and Bishoppes But to leaue that cankred spite of yours to the iudgement of God why doo ye not report the Emperours wordes as they are in your authour Theodoritus M. Ievvels corruptioÌ Wil you neuer leaue this your accustomed vile corruption Theodoritus saith not as you reporte but thus Theodorit lib. 1. cap. 19. Quòd si quis audacter inconsultéque ad memoriam laudeÌ pestium illaruÌ exarserit illius statim audacia ministri Dei hoc est mea executione coercebitur If any man be inflamed boldely and incircumspectly at the remembrance and coÌmendation of those wicked and pestilent heretiques his boldenes shal be repressed straightwaie by execution done by me that am the minister of God And these threatning wordes of the Emperour are to be referred to the people of Nicodemia for to them the epistle was directed And hauing teÌporal iurisdiction as power of life and death ouer them he put that terrour into their hartes that they should be neither in loue nor in admiration of those accursed Bishoppes whom he had bannished for the Arian heresie Or if M. Iewel wil haue those wordes of the Emperour to be referred as wel to the Bishoppes and Priestes as to the laie people Let him vnderstand that as it is lawful for any Prince to pounish heretiques that are excommunicate by the Churche and deliuered to the secular power be they Bishoppes or priestes So it was lawful for Constantine to pounishe these wicked Arian Bishoppes excommunicated and accused by the. 318. Bishoppes in the Councel of Nice And as the prince that now as an executour of Iustice pounisheth heretikes by death is not for that coÌsideration neither iudge in causes of heresie nor supreme gouernour of the Churche So Constantine at that time had no iurisdiction ouer Bishoppes in ecclesiastical causes albeit he bannished them and threatned them other pounishmeÌt if they fel in loue of those cursed Arians For the princes threatning of pounishment for heresie is no argument to build a superioritie in ecclesiastical causes As for the place whiche you bring out of S. Augustine you brought it before in your Replie to proue that Emperours might receiue Appeales in ecclesiastical causes Art 4. fol. 104. 105 106. And a sufficient answere was made vnto it in the Returne of Vntruthes vpon you Why conceele you that If you had ben studious of the truthe for Goddes sake you should haue yelded vnto it or if you had iudged it false haue confuted it and not let it passe in silence and now trouble the Reader with the same stuffe againe But peraduenture you wil saie that you neuer sawe that booke and therefore that you dissemble not the answer If it were credible that you would not see a booke written directely against you and one that toucheth you so neare this excuse were tolerable But seing it hath no colour of truthe there can be litle pretended to saue you from the gilte of dissimulation and hypocrisie in this case I answere you therefore as he did S. Augustine spake in that place against the stubborne Donatistes of whom Parmenianus was one whiche complained that the Emperour Constantine eos ad campum id est ad supplicium duci iussit commaunded them to be brought foorth into the fielde that is to pounishement And in reasoning against him he tooke aduantage of his owne doinges not as allowing the Appeale to the Emperour but as prouing him vnreasonable who for aduantage would appeale to the Emperour and when the Emperour had pronounced sentence against him would striue and repine at the sentence and saie that he being a temporal prince ought not to pounishe Bishoppes Like as if you M. Iewel hauing made the Queene supreme gouernour of your Churche should saie in case you were condemned of heresie or of Simonie by the Prince Her grace ought not to condemne me in these cases a Catholique that flattereth her not with that title would reason against you and saie No sir Is it not laweful for the Queene to condemne you in a case of heresie and Simonie Why then made you the Queene supreme gouernour of your Churche Euen so did S. Augustine reason against the Donatistes And bicause by their appeale to his Maiestie they had chosen him iudge in their cause and after said he could not condemne them S. Augustine vsed their owne weapon against them to coÌuince their folie and said as you saie Is it not lawful that the Emperour or the Emperours deputie should pronounce in a case of Religion Wherefore then went your owne Ambassadours to the Emperour c. But as the Catholique reasoning in suche wise against you can not be said by that to allowe the Queenes supremacie So S. Augustine in this talke against the Donatistes can not be said to allowe the Emperours authoritie in condemning of Bishoppes and other ecclesiastical causes For he answering an other Donatiste that said Augustinus epist 162. Non debuit episcopus proconsulari iudicio purgari a Bishop ought not to make his purgation before a temporal magistrate said If he be worthy to be blamed whom the temporal iudge hath absolued whereas he him selfe did not require it how much more are they to be blamed whiche would haue a temporal prince to be iudge in their cause By this it appeareth that he thought that Princes could not be iudges ouer Bishoppes Ibidem Moreouer he reporteth that Constantine who appointed iudges to heare their cause did it à sanctis Antistitibus veniam petiturus as minding to aske pardon of the holy Bishoppes for his facte And the same Emperour seing their importunitie in repairing to him as iudge said Optatus li. 1. coÌtra Parmen O rabida furoris audacia Sicut in causis
benne halfe in a phrenesie you might haue learned L. NaÌ ad ad ea ff de legibus ff de regu lis iuris that ex ijs quaeraro accidânt lages non fiunt of those thinges that happen seldome lawes are not made And Quae propter necessitatem recepta sunt non debent in argumentum trahi those thinges that are receiued for necessitie ought not to be drawen to an argument or president to be followed Wherefore ââither vpon the doinges of the Emperours in that great and lamentable schisme of the Church neither vpon Zabarella you can builde that Bishoppes may ordinarily be conuented before a ciuil Magistrate in ecclesiastical causes But sir seing you thought it conuenient for your purpose to vse the authoritie of Zabarella although you haue fowly falsified and misreported his wordes tel vs by what reason you maie refuse his authoritie if we can allege it against you He saith in the same treatie that you allege Papa est vniuersalis Episcopus Zabarella M. Ievvels ovvne doctor alleged agaiÌst M. Ievvel Papa non habet superiorem Papa habet iurisdictionem potestatem super omnes de iure Sedes Apostolica errare non potest The Pope is the vniuersal Bishop The Pope hath no superiour The Pope hath iurisdiction and power ouer al by lawe The Apostolique See can not erre Why admitte you not this Is it reason that you should admitte an authours saying the whiche he spake and allowed in a case of necessitie for auoiding of a greater danger and not admitte the same authours saying in the same treatie whiche he speaketh according to receiued and approued doctrine of the Catholique Church Aske your aduocate L. Si quis Cod. de testibus and he wil tel you that reason and lawe faith That si quis vsus fuerit testibus ijdemque testes producantur aduersus eum in alia lite non licebit personas eorum excipere If one vse witnesses in a cause and the same witnesses be brought against him in an other controuersie it is not lawful for him to make exception against their personnes And if either reason or lawe could preuaile where heresie hath entred you should not onely admitte this but also that whiche he saith in an other place ââââstas ãâ¦ã immediate pendat à Deo Ioan. 21. per illa verba Pasce ãâ¦ã Papa habet potestatem supra omnes quic omnes sunt âââs Papae vicem Dei gerit in terris Zabarella in ClemeÌt de SenteÌt reiudicata cap. pastoralis Ibidem in Clement de magistris cap. Inter. de Sentent excommu cap. ex frequeÌtib The power of the Pope dependeth immediatly of God by those wordes feede my sheepe The Pope hath power ouer al bicause al be sheepe The Pope beareth the person of God in earth For he spake this with as good aduise as he spake the other And this is generally allowed and that but in a case Wherefore if his authoritie be good in the one ought it not to be good in the other Now therefore M. Iewel I reporte me to your indifferent iudgement how true it is that you saie that a Prince or a ciuil magistrate maie lawfully cal a Priest before him to his owne seate of iudgement and that a Bishop maie be conuented before the Magistrate as his lawful and superiour iudge in ecclesiastical causes No one example or sentence that ye haue yet alleged doth proue that vaine assertion of yours Neither could ye haue had any aduantage by them if ye had truely reported their wordes and declared the circumstances why and wherefore they were spoken But that liked you not Wherefore referring your corruption and false dealing in these matters of weight to the judgement of God and examination of the indifferent and wise I conclude against you with S. Augustine S. Ambrose S. Chrysostome and al other Catholique Fathers that it is not conuenient Extr. de Maiorit obed cap. 2. in marg nor lawful for a king to cal priestes before him to his owne seat of Iudgement as their superiour in ecclesiastical causes As for the note glosed in the Decretalles which ye bring to proue that priestes are exempted from the Emperours iurisdiction by the Popes policie and the princes consent and not by the worde of God we tel you that suche glosed notes declare you to be a very Gloser and argue that your stoare is farre spent when you rest vpon such marginal glosed notes Were it graunted which in no case we graunt that Bisshoppes and priestes were exempted from the Emperours iurisdiction in ecclesiastical causes onely by the Popes policie and consent of princes for confirmation whereof they haue made diuers lawes and geuen out large priuileges yet these lawes standing vnreapealed and priuileges vnauthorized they can not be conuented lawfully before the ciuil magistrate For it standeth not with the Maiestie of a prince to doo against his owne lawes and breake the priuileges by him selfe graunted to others before he hath with as mature aduise and consideration reuoked them as he did first graunte them That the Canonistes are wrongfully charged by the Apologie with teaching the people that Simple Fornication is no sinne The 15 Chapter The wordes of the Apologie Defence Pag. 357. They be the Popes ovvne Canonistââ vvhiche haue taught the people that Fornication betvven single foâââ iâ no sinne Harding A sclaunder vttered by the Apologie against the Canonistes not recanted in the Defence touching the thing but only touching the errour of the name IN my CoÌfutation I saie that this is a greuous offence and worthy to be pounished in processe I saie to the makeâs of the Apologie How proue ye it They allege for it one Iohn de Magistris How be it M. Iewel hath recanted that errour and confesseth him selfe to haue ben deceiued For he graunteth it was Martinus de Magistris whom he meant or should haue meant He should doo wel to recant diuers other the like his errours For he hath not only ben deceiued by his note bookes or his Notegatherers in naming Iohn de Magistris for Martinus de Magistris but also in the names of sundrie other menne as it shal be declared in the nexte Chapter But touching the sclaunder of the Canonistes if Martinus de Magistrââ had so taught yet the matter is not cleare for he wââ no Canoniste but a Schoole Doctor of Diuinitie Againâ he ââââht not the people as our Maisters of the Apologie ââe but onely wrote of that matter after the Scholastical manner from vnderstanding whereof the peoples simple capacitie is farre of Wel let these three errours Lyes or ouersightes be âinââed at Hitherto the Canonistes are not touched but sclaundered What shal we answer for Martinus de Magistris Certainely neither that Doctour taught either the people or any other person that vngodly and false Doctrine Certaine it is that in this Treatie De Temperantia quaestione 2. he taught the contrarie where
Episcopus But whether he beareth that name of the one or of the other it maketh no great matter If it be so it remaineth that you can tel vs in what parte of the worlde whether in Asia in Aphrica or in Europa or in the new founde landes there be any place of that name I thinke you must be faine to looke ouer al the Geographical tables and bookes you haue and borrowe some of your felowes too and put on your spectales of the best sight and yet for al that I warrant you not finde it except it be in Vtopia Wel M. Iewel that you maie vnderstande that the more occasion you geue me to seeke the more I finde matter of Vntruthe and ignorance to charge you withal I tel you in deede that you haue named Ioannes Camotensis in steede of Ioannes Carnotensis if you haue respecte to his Bishoprike Ioannes Camotensis must be IoaÌnes Sarisburiensis vvho vvas Bishop of Chartres in France and thereof in Latine called Carnotensis Defence pag. 613. But if you wil haue his Countrie signified then must you cal him Ioannes Salesberiensis or Sarisburiensis choose whether as you haue done Pag. 132. I might saie that this Ioannes Sarisburiensis was a Bishop in al respectes farre better to vse your owne wordes not then Leontius Hippolytus or Clemens as it liketh you to skoffe at those learned and blessed Bishoppes but then Iohn Iewel of Sarisburie if you naming your selfe Iohn of Sarisburie could iustly be accompted any Bishop at al. But betwen a Bishop and no Bishop in this behalfe there can be no comparison This is not the first time that you haue alleged your witnesses by a blinde gheasse hearesaie or reporte not hauing seene their bookes nor knowing what the Authours were You can saie much by rote and prouâ litle by skil as in many other places but here moste euidently it appeareth For if you had knowen that your Ioannes Camotensis is the selfe same Ioannes Sarisburiensis otherwise named Carnotensis for that he was in his time Bishop of Chartres in Fraunce Pag. 132. named Carnotum in Latine whiche you haue alleged before out of his woorke entitled Polycraticon but neuer declaring out of what booke thereof being eight bookes in the whole or what Chapter bicause yee neuer readde the place in the Authour him selfe but receiued it by the waie of almes of frier Bale Flacius Illyricus or some suche other if I saie you had knowen so muche as you might if you had taken the paine to peruse the Polycration your selfe you would neuer haue made so muche a doo about so smal a matter Now for your better instruction and fuller satisfaction maie it please you to vnderstand that he whiche is misnamed in Epitome Bibliothecae Gesneri Ioannes Camotensis is in Partitionibus eiusdem Gesneri tituli 5. fol. 95. rightly called Ioannes Carnotensis And that your Ioannes Camotensis is by you blindly mistaken for Ioannes Carnotensis it euidently appeareth by the sentences alleged by your owne Necromantical Doctor Cornelius Agrippa and by an other of the Spritish sort of your gospel Paulus Scalichius in his railing Libel De Choraea Monachorum Paul Scalichius and by lying Illyricus in Catalogo testium veritatis which are adscribed by Baudy Bale 2. Centur. Scriptorum Britanniae pag. 212. too Ioannes Carnotensis out of his Polycraticon And in deed they are there to be founde albeit not to that purpose that al the packe of your holy brethren haue vntruely alleged them for And therefore neuer a one of you al hath quoted either number of the booke or Chapter where any of those sentences are to be founde lest your falsehed might haue benne espied and that by reading the whole discourse of the places your euil purpose should haue benne nothing furthered but much hindred But if it wil please either you or the Reader to peruse the 16. chapter of the 5. booke and the 24. of the 6. booke of the sayd Polycraticon you for your parte shal haue occasion to vnderstand your errour and folie and the Reader for his parte not to be deceiued with your blinde reporte Pag. 51. Cusanus sovvly and ignorantly belied of M. Iew. You beare your Reader in hand pag. 51. that Nicolaus Cusanus wrote a booke entituled de Auctoritate Ecclesiae Concilij supra contra Scripturam Of the Authoritie of the Churche and Councel aboue and against the Scripture And as though you had seene the booke and wel perused it you referre your Reader thereunto in 14. mo places of this your pretensed Defence as it shal appeare to him A false forged booke odiously attributed by M. Ievv to Cardinal Cusanus in xv Sundriâ places that wil take the paines to turne to these pages here truely quoted 53. 55. 78. 157. 331. 438. 439. 474. 558. 593. 665. 674. 704. 724. Now M. Iewel notwithstanding al these quotations of yours if you be hable to shewe vs any booke of Cusanus so entituled either in print or in autenticke written hande I wil saie that you wil proue your selfe a truer man then euer I tooke you to be But bicause this maie litle moue you I wil more adde on the contrary side if you be not hable to shewe the same after so many allegations out thereof it wil consequently folowe that you are a shamelesse man I might saie a false harlot If a man were disposed to dally with you in a matter most certaine as you vse to doo with others when you thinke you haue gotten any smal shadowe of some counterfeit aduantage for an vndoubted example whereof I referre the readers to the page 414. he might perchaunce dash you quite out of countenance and deface you for euer yea euen before your frendes and the flattering vpholders of your dooinges which would greeue you at the harte Now might one chalenge you and saie M. Iewel if you be hable to shew any booke or halfe booke oration or epistle or any litle pamphlet whereunto Cusanus hath geuen this title then wil the Catholiques graunt you more then euer you were hable to gete yet at their handes If you haue al the bookes in your studie either of your owne or of other menne that you allege then bring the booke with this title forth and you shal discharge your selfe of a most impudent lie and sclaunder And if you be hable so to doo then I praie you let it be proclaimed by you with your booke in your hand at Powles crosse as you haue done at other times to your worship forsooth that al the worlde maie beare witnesse thereof Verely M. Iewel it appeareth that you haue readde more then you vnderstand or at least then you haue liste to vnderstand and yet you allege more then euer you readde in the bookes whereunto you referre vs as it maie wel be proued by this present example and many other the like You maie beshrewe him to whom you gaue so light credite herein Couet not praise by
of Infantes necessarie fol. 336. a. Bastard vvorkes printed with good authours fol. 58. b. Baudie Bale vvorthily so called fol. 37. Beno parcial holding vvith the Emperour against the Pope fol. 57. a. S. Bernard reiected by M. Ievv fol. 12. a. BereÌgarius vvordes as he laie dying 105. b. his heresie coÌdemned fol. 105. a Beza persuaded Poltrot to kil the Duke of Guise fol. 85. a. Bigamie lavvful rather then commendable fol. 279. b. Bishoppes only in Councelle haue sentence definitiue fol. 99. a. Bishoppes not doing their dueties are yet Bishoppes fol. 181. 182. Bishoppes and Priestes different fol. 133. b. Bishoppes be Bishoppes though they be negligent fol. 181. a. A Bishop aboue a Priest fol. 235. b. The Bishop of Rome is the Successour of Peter fol. 273. a. A Bishop is not hable to doo his duetie the better for that he is married fol. 309. b. Blame a worde of honest meaning changed by M. Iew. in to Handle a word of filthy meaning fol. 121. a. Brentius the first deuiser of laying together the Aduersaries sharpe vvordes fol. 25. b. Brentius chargeth Bullinger vvith sharpe speache fol. 26. a. Brentius the authour of the heresie of the Vbiquitaries fol. 116. b. Browne the head Minister of the Puritanes fol. 336. a. Brunichildis Quene of FraÌce fol. 382. a C. CAnonical Election of M. Iewel to the See of Sarisburie fol. 232. a. Capon Bishop no Protestant fol. 243. a. The Catholique Church fol. 272. 273. 274. Catholike vvhat by LirineÌsis fol. 124. b. Catholique Church staÌding in two personnes by M. Ievvel fol. 126. a. Cathecumenus interpreted by M. Ievvel an heathen fol. 342. a. Celestinus Pope sclaundered fol. 253. b. Chams broode fol. 37. a. Character vvhat it signifieth in the Sacramentes fol. 268. a. Christopher Goodmans Traitours fol. 84. b. The Church standeth in multitude of personnes fol. 125. b. 126. Christ is the Rocke and Peter is the Rocke and hovv eche fol. 174. b. Church a plainer teacher then the Scriptures fol. 328. Christ a consecrated prieste fol. 3 2. b. Christ touched of vs in the Euchariste fol. 340. a. Christes bodie receiued of vs vvith mouth fol. 341. a. Churche hovve it is resolued in doubteful cases fol. 352. The clergie of this nevv Congregation vvhat vvorthy menne it hath fol. 262. b. Clerkes bounde to Continencie fol. 279. a. Communion in one or bothe kindes fol. 343. b. in sequent b. Communicatorie letters fol. 223. b. Concupiscence vvithout consent is not properly sinne fol. 337. a. CoÌtinuance of the Church vvithout intermission fol. 31. a. 89. 90. 91. 92. Councel of Laterane a great assemblie fol. 105. a. Councelles of later time in authoritie fol. 108. 109. a. b. Councelles not contrarie one to the other fol. 109. b. Councelles later preferred before the former fol. 114. b. 115. a. Concupiscence in married menne vvithout vvhiche generation is not perfourmed is an il thing fol. 283. a. Consecration of a Bishop fol. 240. b. Confession of sinnes necessary fol. 274 b. 275. 276. 277. Contradictions of M. Ievvel fol. 98. a. 101. b. Cranmar no Successour of S. Thomas fol. â04 a. Cranmar hovv dealt vvithal for heresie and treason fol. 380. b. Cyrillus falsified by M. Ievv fol. 280. a. Cyprian nipped fouly by M. Iewel fol. 269. a. Cyprian alleaged by M. Iew. in an il cause fol. 271. b. D. DAmasus made by M. Iewel to write of thinges done after his death fol. 287. a. Degradatio fol. 7. a. Deposition of the Clergie what it is and how fol. 69. b. 70. 71. Dioscorus coÌdeÌned by Bishops not by the Ciuil magistrate fol. 72. 73. Dissensions among the ProtestaÌtes fol. 33. 34. 35. 151. 152. Donatistes errour renevved by M. Ievvel fol. 92. a. Dorman defended fol. 295. a. Double holinesse fol. 203. b. Drinke ye al of this in vvhat sense it vvas spoken fol. 343. b. E. ERasmus against the Protestantes fol. 163. b. Erasmus and Agrippa belie the Greke Church touching priestes marriage fol. 307. a. Ephrem praied for the healpe of Saintes and to Saintes fol. 364. b. Errour of S. Cyprian fol. 271. b. Errour of Pope Iohn 22. vvhat was it fol. 64. b. Errours that M. Ievvel maie be induced to acknovvledge fol. 77. a. Errours the greatest that M. Ievvel could find in my bookes fol. 77. b. Euchariste ministred to Children at Baptisme fol. 241. a. F. FAithe in England made changeable fol. 23. a. Faith without workes fol. 369. b. Faithe of the later thousand yeres as good as that of the first fiue hundred yeres fol. 94 b. Faithful wiues haue ben cause of the couersion of their vnfaithful husbandes fol. 315. a. Fathers charged by M. Iew. with ouersight for zele and heat fol. 295. b. Figuratiue bodie and figuratiue eating fol. 333. a. Fisher Bishop of Rochester and Luther compared fol. 108. Fleshe is a meane whereby grace passeth into the Soule fol. 339. a. Formosus Pope fol. 139. b. Fornication how it is punished in the Clergie fol. 69. 70. 71. Fornication euer pounished by the Churche fol. 81. Fruite of the Vine fol. 353. b. G. GErmanie for many partes remaining Catholike fol. 96. a. Gerson impudently belied by M. Iewel fol. 64. a. 100. b. 101. a. b. GoodmaÌs traiterous writing fol. 14. b. Gospel commeth vnto vs by Tradition fol. 326. b. Gratians wordes alleged by M. Iev for the CouÌcel of Carthage fol. 59. b. Grace necessary to the kepiÌg of the commaundementes fol. 366. b. Gregorie Nazanzenes saying touching a married Bishop expounded fol. 61. b. 313. b. H. HEad of the Churche one fol. 136. b. 137. seq Henrie of Luxenburg how he died fol. 57. b. Henrie the eightes bodie bruted to be taken awaie fol. 140. a. Henrie the sixt his body taken vp fol. 140. a. Heretiques it booteth not to striue with them fol. 215. b. Heretiques haue not to doo with Scriptures fol. 216. a. Heresie hath idolatrie annexed fol. 261. b Hildebrand Pope 57. b. acquited by graue writers fol. 256. b. 257. a. Hierome of Prage heretique recanted fol. 104. a. Hieromes place ad Euagrium expounded fol. 165. b. 166. 167. Hilarie a wicked man saincted by M. Iewels Canonization fol. 173. a. S. Hilaries verdite of S. Peters preeminence fol. 173. a. S. Hilarie married by M. Iew. fol. 28â a. Holinesse of degree and of offite fol. 203. b. Honorius Pope no publike teacher of heresie fol. 253. b. 254. seq Hostiensis fowly corrupted by M. Iewel fol. 67. b. Husse said Masse a litle before he vvas burnt fol. 104. a. Hussites heretiques fol. 83. a. b. 103. a. b. Huguenotes of Fraunce Gues of the lovv Countrie fol. 37. a. Hypsistarij vvhat meÌne they vvere fol. 314. a. I. M. Ievvels dignitie and degree no Bishop fol. 39. a. M. Ievvels especial Doctours fol. 8. a. 213. b. 228. b. 229. a. 251. b. M. Ievvels scoffe against Christ him selfe fol. 8. b. M. Ievvel mangleth his aduersaries text in infinite places fol. 9. b. 17. b. M. Ievvels graue sentence pronouÌced against S.
of Popes at the first succeding one an other fol. 219. b. Ordination and Confirmation diuers fol. 227. b. Origen falsified by M. Iewel fol. 286. a. 333. b. Orders Ecclesiastical fol. 134. b. 135. a. P. Papistrie can not be shewed when it beganne fol. 106. b Patriarkes fol. 180. Peter Martyr in Strasbourg a Lutheran in England a Zuinglian fol. 34. b. Peter Martyr and dame Catherine his wife fol. 36. b. Peter Martyr at variance vvith Brentius fol. 117. b. Peters authoritie and prerogatiue fol. 174. a. 175. 176. Peter ouer the Christian Gentiles at Rome fol. 221. ãâ¦ã Peter when he came to Rome fol. 221. b. Peter the feeder of al sortes in the flocke fol. 148. b. c. Peters humilitie fol. 153. Peter offended twise fol. 157. Peter foloweth the rest yet head of al by S. Augustine fol. 158. Peter receiued into indiuisible vnitie with Christ fol. 174. a. Peter ioyned with fol. Leo. 176. a. Pelagius heresie mainteined by the Caluinistes fol. 367. a. Perfection double one of Pilgrimes the other of heauen fol. 368. b Petitio principij muche vsed by M. Iewel fol. 89. a. Platina no flatterer of the Pope fol. 257. b. Pope the Heade of the Churche fol. 130. b. The Popes Supremacie proued fol. 146. 147. 148. 149. 159. b. 179. 186. a. b. The Pope Prince of Pastours fol. 177. b 178. a. The Pope leaft the Vicare of Christes loue towardes vs. fol. 148. a. The Popes confirming of Bishops fol. 223. b. 224. seq Popes charged with heresie and other enormites defended fol. 248. 249. 250. 251. 252. 253. 254. 255. 256. 257. 258. The Pope Peters Successour fol. 273. a. The Pope laufully called the Princâ⦠of Pastours fol. 177. b. Possibilitie of keping Gods Commaundementes fol. 366. b. Priesthood double fol. 239. a. Priest aboue a Deacon fol. 164. b. Priestes of England are Votaries fol. 290. b. Priestes of Greece in what sence they are Votaries fol. 298. a. Priestes and religious menne whether they maie be dispensed to marrie fol. 300. b. Priestes only Iudges ouer Priestes fol. 377. a. Praying for the dead taught by S. Paule fol. 326. b. Protestantes dissent not onely one from an other but also from them selues fol. 34. a. Protestantes varie from the Primitiue Churche fol. 270. b. Protestantes be Apostates fol. 336. b. Protestantes are proued by an inuincible Argument to be no part of Christes Churche fol. 90. a. b. 92. Puritanes fol. 139. a. 332. a. R. RAymeris made king of Arragon of a Monke and married by dispensation fol. 301. a. Real presence cleerely witnessed fol. 79. a. proued 339. sequentib Rebellion against Princes mainteined by M. Iewel fol. 86. a. Religious menne married the first fouÌders of this new Gospel fol. 36. b Reseruation of the Sacramente fol. 331. b. Righteousnes competent for this life fol. 368. a. Rounde capped Ministers fol. 86. b. Ruffianrie of M. Iewel detected fol. 120. b. Ruffinus belied by M. Iew. fol. 285. b. S. SAbellicus falsified by M. Iewel fol. 139. b. Sacramentes meanes to receiue grace fol. 330. a. Sacramentes seuen fol. 334 a. Sacrament of the Aulter called our maker and Lorde by S. Augustine fol. 346. a. Sacramentaries persecuted by the Lutheranes fol. 95. b. 96. a. Sacramentaries condemned by the Lutheranes fol. 104. b. Seruus seruuorum Dei the Popes stile fol. 187. b. Seuerus a blinde man by touche of a Martyrs garment recouered sight fol. 364. a. Shaxton Bishoppe no Protestant fol. 241. b. Shaxton and Capon Bishoppes of Sarisburie repented fol. 194. a. Shaxton B. not of M. Iewele side fol. 242. b. Sharpe vvordes founde in the Scriptures fol. 27. b. Sheepe of three sortes fol. 149. a. Siritius and Innocentius vvere not the first ordeiners of Clerkes coÌtinencie fol. 279. a. Sozomenus Gregorie Nazianzen and Eusebius belied by the Apologie fol. 309. a. Sophistrie of M. Ievvels shifting from the Scriptures to Goddes vvorde fol. 323. a. Spiridion made Bishop of a married laie man fol. 285. a Syluester 2. Pope fol. 249. a. Succession of Bishoppes treated of at large Lib. fol. 4. Succession of Bishoppes a certaine rule to knovve the Churche by fol. 198. b. 199. sequent Succession can not lacke the Truth fol. 199. 200. Succession lavvful can not be taken avvaie by man fol. 211. T. TErtulliaÌ of a married man made a Prieste fol. 285. a. Tertullians errour fol. 239. 240. Three vvaies of vvriting against an aduersarie fol. 42. b. Tradition fol. 270. a. Traditions belonging to SacrameÌts maie not be changed Ceremonies maie fol. 326. a. Traditores what they were in the primitiue Churche fol. 91. a. Transubstantiation fol. 110. b. treated of 346. b. This is my Bodie meant properly fol. 339. a. Turkes inuasion brideled fol. 266. a. V. VAriance of opinion betwen two Ministers of Valencenes in the time of the Siege fol. 84. b. Victor the Pope his death fol. 58. a Virgilius Pope his CoÌstancie fol. 200. a Vnitie can not be without a supreme head fol. 140. b. 141. a. 152. 153. a. Vniuersal Bishop truly attributed to the Pope fol. 185. b. 186. 187. 188. sequent Votaries maie not conueniently marrie by M. Iewel fol. 289. a. Vow breakers in what danger they stande fol. 278. a. Vow of Chastitie annexed to holy Orders fol. 291. a. Vow of Chastitie made in facte though no vvordes be spoken fol. 292. b. Vovve made in vvhat case marriage holdeth or holdeth not by the determination of the Churche fol. 294. b Vrspergensis set out by Melanchthon onely fol. 57. b. VV VVAldenses heresies fol. 102. b. VVedlockes il thing is inordinate luste fol. 283. b. VVickleff his heresies fol. 82. b. 63. a. VViues that couerted their vnfaithful husbandes fol. 61. b. 350. a. VVordes of God not written fol. 270. a. VVorkes hovv meritorious of infinite revvarde fol. 371. b. Faultes escaped in the printing Faulte leafe line Correction my 27. a. 27. may sor 38. a. 12. sory Golfridus 83. b. 25. Galfridus lustly 135. b. 23. lusty famofum 170. b. 9. fumosum to 179. b. 28. lut it out least 180. b. 28. leaft S. of 198. a. 19. of S. In the margent 202. a.  a note superfluous Liber hic D.M.N. Thomae Hardingi lectus approbatus est à viris Anglici idiomatis Theologiae peritissimis vt sine periculo imprimi publicari possit Quanquam alioqui ipse D. Hardingus mihi tà m probè notus est vt de eius cruditione fide prudentia nihil sit dubitandum Cunerus Petri Pastor S. Petri Louanij 21. Maij. An. 1568.
the first fiue hundred yeres the Sacrament of the Aultare was geuen to children at their baptisme And yet M. Iewel can not saie that this later custome is worse then the first was but rather that it is better as the councel of Trent hath declared I demaunde then of any M. Iewels Predecessours in Sarisburie euen til our Apostle S. Augustines time but he skippeth ouer these last thowsand yeres and asketh me of that which was before Whiche inequalitie not withstanding I answer to his question and saie that al the Bishops of Rome as wel before S. Augustines time as sithence mainteined our Religion And that I proue bicause the B. of Rome that now is Pius the fifth doth allow our Religion For we communicate with him and he with vs. And this present Bishop agreed with his predecessour Pius the fourth and he againe with Paulus the fourth And so if we go vpward from man to man from Pope to Pope euen vnto S. Gregories time we shal find that concerning any question which is betwen the ProtestaÌtes and vs there was neuer Pope yet which disagreed with his predecessours or aftercommers For euery one of them doth prayse and follow S. Gregorie Now S Gregorie sent S. Augustine into England who turned our English nation to the faith and S. Gregorie him selfe agreed in saith with his predecessours euen til we come to S. Peter Neither can it be shewed whiche Pope did euer breake or change the vniuersal faith which was in Rome or any where els before concerning either priuate Masse as you terme it or any other Article If then Pius the fifth or any Pope els do allow priuate Masse as it is euident he doth and the General Councel of Trent with him certainely euery Pope before him did allow the same For this Pope agreeth with his predecessours Or els if vntil S. Gregories time priuate Masse in such sense as we now dispute of it had not ben heard of being so hainous an offence against God as that whereby the Institution of Christes supper is broken which Pope so euer had begonne it he should haue ben noted for his new Inuention as they haue ben who haue begonne any change as in certaine ceremonies some haue done Platina in vitis Pontifi For pope Sergius is noted to haue ben the first that changed his former name Leo the third was the first that placed the empire in Fraunce and Germanie and Hadrianus the third was the first that chalenged to be pope without the Emperours authoritie and so forth in many like matters But seing M. Iewel can name no man who beganne to saie or allow priuate Masse and yet seing it is said and allowed thoroughout al Christendom it is S. Augustines owne rule that the said vse of priuate Masse came from the Apostles them selues For thus he writeth August ad Ianuarium Epist 118. Quod vniuersa tenet Ecclesia nee Concilijs institutum sed semper retentum est non nisi authoritate Apostolica traditum rectissimè creditur What thing the whole Churche keepeth and hath not ben instituted in Councels but hath ben alwayes reteined the same is most rightly beleued to haue ben deliuered none otherwise then by Apostolike authoritie Neither M. Iewel nor any man els can shew vs which CouÌcel instituted first Priuate masse and the Church from age to age is found to haue had priuate masse neither can any one man be named that first said it therfore priuat Masse and also the other necessary pointes of our religion are most rightly beleued to haue proceded onely from the Apostolique authoritie Thus I haue answered M. Iewels question Now let him answer myne Iewel Touching the Bishops of Sarisburie you your selfe haue named tvvo Bishop Shaxton and Bishop Capon both learned and graue fathers and both preachers and professours of the gospel Harding Bishop Shaxton not to be accoÌpted of M. Iew els syde Emong the wise a man is accompted to be suche as that is be it good or euil wherein he maketh abode and what thing is done by a man but once or seldom and wherein he maketh no continuance thereof he hath not his name For example he is not accoumpted vertuous and iuste who once or very seldom doth vertuously or iustly Aristotel in Ethicis Vna Hirundo noÌ facit ver Math. 10. but he that doth often so and stil desireth so to do This much M. Iewel you shoulde haue learned of Aristotle who teacheth you that it is not one Swalow that maketh the Springtide After this sense Christe him selfe said they are blessed that continue vntil the ende But Bisshop Shaxton although he sometime preached certaine partes of your doctrine as a man being deceiued by Luthers and the Lutheranes bookes before he had wel examined them ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã yet he continued not in your congregation but repented him earnestly of it and reuoked his former vnaduised doinges If then his iudgement with you be of some accoumpte his last iudgement must stand It is said you know by the wise and reason so geueth that the second thoughtes are better aduised and of more wisedome To saie few it is wel knowen in al therealme that he died a Catholique and coulde by no meanes be brought to reuolte to you againe in al King Edwardes time And so you haue no helpe by B. Shaxton Touching bishop Capon he was neuer in his life wholy of your beleefe Bishop Capon âo Protestant none otherwise but as euery man most loueth him selfe and the thinges of the worlde so he is the more enclined to your side and hath the more liking of your lewde fleshly and licencious Doctrine And who that is more carried awaie with the lustes of the fleshe then is ruled by the aduises of the Spirite would not be glad to hearken vnto such a fleshly Gospel and as it were vpon a softe coishon to leane the elbowes of his loose conscience Whereby I meane not to accuse that Bishop of any vnknowen crime but only to shewe that whiles he was loth to displease the Prince and glad to please him selfe and for feare confourmed him selfe to the worlde he seemed to fauoure sundrie pointes of your proceedinges and in some parte rather did like vnto you then beleeued as you do as it is wel knowen by the order of his life and specially by his ende whiche trieth a man best at what time he shewed him selfe thoroughly Catholique and hartily repented that he had euer gonne so farre with you And bicause he was knowen not to haue ben of your side in harte he was suffered to keepe his state and bishoprike in Quene Maries time when al the Protestantes were remoued from suche roumes Thus haue you neither Shaxton nor Capon for your predecessour and consequently you are as S. Cyprian said of Nouatian Nemini succedens à teipso ordinatus Cypria li. 1. epist 6. a Bishop succeding no man but ordeined of your selfe Which thing would