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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A66481 The judgment of the foreign reformed churches concerning the rites and offices of the Church of England shewing there is no necessity of alterations : in a letter to a member of the House of Commons. Willes, John, 1646 or 7-1700. 1690 (1690) Wing W2807; ESTC R8187 45,548 70

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l._n 3._o p._n 75._o tell_v we_o of_o his_o time_n that_o there_o have_v be_v a_o report_n spread_v by_o some_o that_o come_v from_o the_o emperor_n that_o alteration_n shall_v be_v make_v in_o the_o liturgy_n which_o startle_v the_o people_n but_o when_o they_o see_v their_o solemn_a custom_n and_o wont_a rite_n observe_v and_o that_o nothing_o be_v change_v add_v or_o diminish_v in_o their_o divine_a service_n they_o be_v quiet_v again_o those_o government_n have_v be_v observe_v to_o continue_v long_a that_o have_v be_v most_o steady_a in_o their_o law_n and_o the_o jew_n who_o be_v immediate_o govern_v by_o god_n have_v their_o very_a rite_n and_o ceremony_n unaltered_a for_o almost_o 2000_o year_n their_o great_a lawgiver_n foresee_v that_o every_o considerable_a alteration_n in_o a_o establish_a religion_n or_o even_o its_o rite_n and_o mode_n will_v put_v the_o state_n into_o convulsion_n and_o endanger_v a_o revolution_n as_o to_o our_o present_a conjuncture_n it_o be_v a_o 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ceremony_n etc._n etc._n p._n 55_o 56_o 57_o 18._o one_o word_n to_o the_o dissenter_n p._n 58._o 59_o errata_fw-la page_n 6._o l._n 24._o humphr_v read_v humphrys_n p._n 17._o l._n 27._o popular_fw-la read_v populari_fw-la p._n 20._o l._n 2._o polyglot_n latin_n read_v polyglot_n bible_n p._n 22._o l._n 35._o venral_n read_v vernal_a p._n 26._o l._n 18._o evispine_n read_v crispin_n p._n 31._o l._n 24._o perpagato_n read_v propagato_fw-la p._n 43._o l._n 34._o pretend_v read_v pretence_a the_o judgement_n of_o the_o foreign_a reform_a church_n concern_v the_o rite_n and_o office_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n there_o have_v be_v three_o reason_n much_o urge_v of_o late_a for_o make_v alteration_n in_o the_o rite_n and_o office_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n at_o this_o juncture_n the_o one_a relate_v to_o ourselves_o the_o 2d_o to_o dissenter_n and_o the_o 3d_o to_o foreign_a church_n to_o the_o one_a it_o have_v be_v answer_v that_o we_o do_v not_o need_v alteration_n 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the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o decree_n of_o pope_n gregory_n and_o therein_o we_o shall_v not_o only_o take_v away_o our_o agreement_n with_o the_o greek_a and_o eastern_a church_n but_o shall_v more_o than_o ever_o be_v cry_v out_o against_o by_o the_o dissenter_n for_o comply_v with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n or_o else_o we_o must_v establish_v a_o particular_a method_n of_o our_o own_o and_o that_o will_v look_v very_o ill_o and_o far_o from_o promote_a the_o peace_n and_o union_n of_o christian_a church_n that_o in_o a_o thing_n so_o very_o indifferent_a in_o its_o own_o nature_n we_o shall_v fall_v from_o and_o contradict_v all_o the_o christian_a church_n in_o the_o world_n how_o much_o such_o a_o alteration_n will_v tend_v to_o promote_v faction_n and_o schism_n i_o leave_v all_o the_o world_n to_o judge_v i_o pass_v by_o the_o silly_a objection_n of_o our_o keep_n two_o easters_n in_o one_o year_n for_o if_o by_o year_n we_o mean_v the_o exact_a revolution_n of_o 365_o day_n according_a to_o all_o rule_v now_o use_v in_o the_o christian_a world_n we_o must_v keep_v two_o easters_n in_o one_o year_n every_o three_o year_n or_o thereabouts_o or_o if_o we_o mean_v that_o we_o keep_v two_o easters_n betwixt_o one_o 25_o of_o march_n and_o the_o next_o this_o may_v be_v easy_o mend_v by_o begin_v our_o year_n only_o at_o jan._n first_o as_o be_v the_o more_o usual_a way_n and_o so_o there_o be_v never_o two_o easters_n in_o one_o almanac_n and_o if_o we_o keep_v easter_n according_a to_o the_o true_a new-moon_n and_o the_o true_a equinox_n the_o same_o objection_n will_v continue_v and_o always_o must_v so_o long_o as_o our_o beginning_n of_o the_o year_n be_v betwixt_o the_o paschal_n term_n whereof_o the_o first_o be_v always_o fix_v at_o the_o equinox_n which_o now_o happen_v before_o the_o 25_o of_o march_n this_o be_v the_o nature_n of_o movable_a feast_n i_o may_v very_o well_o pass_v by_o also_o the_o object_v of_o the_o saint_n and_o bishop_n name_n continue_v in_o our_o calendar_n which_o as_o its_o general_o use_v in_o the_o lutheran_n church_n so_o be_v evident_o do_v for_o a_o civil_a and_o not_o any_o religious_a use_n as_o have_v be_v long_o since_o declare_v in_o the_o preface_n to_o piece_n privatae_fw-la publish_v by_o authority_n a._n d._n 1573._o the_o word_n be_v not_o that_o we_o repute_v they_o all_o for_o saint_n or_o holy_a man_n but_o that_o they_o may_v be_v as_o note_n of_o some_o certain_a thing_n and_o fix_v season_n the_o knowledge_n of_o which_o be_v very_o beneficial_a of_o which_o sort_n be_v hilary_n valentine_n david_n st._n george_n martin_n swithin_n lammas_n giles_n holyrood_n evispine_n all-soul_n leonard_n cicilia_n o_o sapientia_fw-la etc._n etc._n and_o so_o as_o far_o as_o i_o can_v see_v the_o only_a way_n to_o continue_v peace_n and_o union_n among_o ourselves_o and_o with_o other_o protestant_a church_n be_v to_o continue_v the_o calendar_n as_o it_o be_v pass_v we_o next_o to_o the_o grand_a objection_n against_o the_o old_a version_n of_o the_o psalm_n use_v in_o the_o common-prayer-book_n and_o the_o way_n propose_v for_o the_o amend_v it_o not_o by_o take_v that_o of_o our_o bibles_n which_o be_v not_o like_v but_o a_o more_o correct_v one_o in_o their_o hand_n so_o the_o author_n of_o a_o letter_n from_o the_o country_n p._n 6._o the_o psalter_n add_v to_o our_o liturgy_n be_v not_o now_o so_o defensible_a when_o there_o be_v a_o more_o correct_v in_o our_o hand_n then_o complain_v of_o its_o manifold_a variation_n from_o the_o hebrew_n and_o frequent_o mistake_v the_o sense_n this_o must_v needs_o create_v no_o little_a scruple_n in_o man_n mind_n by_o have_v inconsistent_a and_o differ_a translation_n again_o p._n 13._o in_o compare_v the_o two_o translation_n of_o the_o psalm_n we_o find_v they_o in_o some_o thing_n inconsistent_a and_o one_o time_n the_o one_o to_o deny_v what_o the_o other_o affirm_v viz._n psal_n 105._o 28._o and_o again_o the_o letter_n to_o the_o convocation_n p._n 15._o must_v we_o be_v force_v to_o read_v the_o old_a translation_n of_o the_o psalm_n and_o impose_v that_o on_o the_o people_n for_o true_a scripture_n which_o in_o so_o great_a a_o number_n of_o place_n quite_o differ_v from_o it_o here_o be_v in_o all_o this_o complaint_n not_o one_o word_n of_o the_o sing_a psalm_n which_o be_v not_o only_o different_a in_o word_n and_o phrase_n from_o both_o of_o they_o but_o in_o the_o sense_n also_o as_o be_v compose_v from_o a_o more_o ancient_a english_a version_n than_o either_o of_o they_o and_o so_o the_o protestant_a church_n of_o france_n continue_v to_o sing_v the_o psalm_n according_a to_o marrot_n composition_n full_a of_o uncouth_a word_n and_o expression_n apol._n for_o prot._n p._n 76._o and_o read_v their_o bible_n according_a to_o a_o version_n make_v at_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o reformation_n p._n 82._o which_o look_v as_o if_o the_o author_n of_o these_o objection_n be_v of_o a_o presbyterian_a original_a i._n e._n have_v a_o great_a veneration_n for_o hopkins_n and_o sternhold_n and_o a_o natural_a antipathy_n to_o the_o common-prayer_n however_o weighty_a this_o argument_n be_v to_o we_o at_o home_n yet_o foreigner_n be_v not_o concern_v in_o it_o and_o though_o however_o we_o do_v not_o do_v it_o most_o certain_o the_o parliament_n will_v as_o say_v the_o author_n of_o the_o letter_n to_o the_o convocation_n p._n 23._o it_o be_v far_o otherwise_o in_o queen_n elizabeth_n time_n when_o the_o convocation_n be_v very_o earnest_a upon_o this_o very_a design_n of_o alter_v the_o translation_n of_o the_o psalm_n in_o the_o liturgy_n and_o be_v by_o the_o parliament_n serious_o dissuade_v from_o it_o hammond_n l'estrange_n alliance_n of_o divine_a office_n p._n 75._o but_o the_o best_a be_v this_o confident_a guesser_n be_v here_o mistake_v also_o and_o our_o old_a translation_n have_v outlive_v that_o parliament_n not_o to_o mention_v that_o if_o we_o lie_v aside_o this_o version_n and_o take_v a_o new_a correct_v one_o never_o yet_o print_v into_o our_o liturgy_n the_o objection_n remain_v as_o at_o first_o and_o here_o may_v be_v as_o much_o difference_n betwixt_o the_o psalm_n in_o the_o common-prayer_n of_o a_o new_a more_o correct_a edition_n and_o that_o in_o our_o bibles_n as_o be_v now_o nor_o be_v it_o ever_o propose_v or_o so_o much_o as_o hint_v in_o the_o commission_n to_o the_o convocation_n to_o have_v a_o new_a translation_n of_o the_o bible_n as_o to_o the_o translation_n use_v in_o the_o liturgy_n it_o be_v not_o make_v from_o the_o version_n of_o the_o septuagint_n nor_o from_o the_o vulgar_a latin_a as_o be_v evident_a to_o any_o one_o that_o will_v compare_v they_o and_o king_n james_n translator_n of_o the_o bible_n declare_v of_o the_o mean_a of_o our_o english_a translation_n of_o the_o bible_n that_o they_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o though_o in_o some_o place_n it_o seem_v rather_o to_o agree_v with_o the_o septuagint_n yet_o it_o seem_v do_v chief_o in_o such_o place_n where_o we_o have_v great_a reason_n to_o believe_v that_o the_o septuagint_n be_v more_o correct_v and_o more_o agreeable_a to_o the_o original_a hebrew_n so_o psalm_n 14._o 5_o 6_o 7._o be_v not_o in_o our_o present_a hebrew_n bibles_n but_o yet_o be_v quote_v thence_o by_o st._n paul_n rom._n 3._o 10_o 11_o 12_o 13_o etc._n etc._n and_o psal_n 51._o 4._o our_o common-prayer_n read_v it_o and_o clear_v when_o thou_o be_v judge_v agreeable_a to_o st._n paul_n rom._n 3._o 4._o but_o the_o version_n use_v in_o our_o bibles_n be_v different_a from_o both_o clear_v when_o thou_o judge_v and_o if_o we_o will_v but_o take_v the_o pain_n to_o compare_v both_o translation_n of_o the_o psalm_n with_o the_o common_a version_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n it_o will_v be_v easy_a to_o find_v many_o place_n where_o our_o old_a translation_n be_v more_o agreeable_a to_o the_o new_a testament_n of_o which_o take_v these_o few_o instance_n mat._n 1._o 43._o he_o trust_v in_o god_n let_v he_o deliver_v he_o now_o if_o he_o will_v have_v he_o psal_n 22._o 8._o in_o the_o liturgy_n he_o trust_v in_o god_n that_o he_o will_v deliver_v he_o let_v he_o deliver_v he_o if_o he_o will_v have_v he_o psal_n 22._o 8._o in_o the_o bible_n he_o trust_v on_o the_o lord_n that_o he_o will_v deliver_v he_o let_v he_o deliver_v he_o see_v he_o delight_v in_o he_o rom._n 10._o 18._o their_o sound_n go_v into_o all_o the_o earth_n and_o their_o word_n unto_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n psal_n 19_o 4._o in_o the_o liturgy_n their_o sound_n be_v go_v out_o into_o all_o land_n and_o their_o word_n into_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n psal_n 19_o 4._o in_o the_o bible_n their_o line_n be_v go_v out_o through_o all_o the_o earth_n
ordain_v by_o presbyter_n as_o be_v evident_a from_o that_o very_a place_n in_o the_o life_n of_o bishop_n bramhall_n from_o whence_o this_o author_n quote_v a_o passage_n and_o what_o he_o do_v for_o peace_n sake_n be_v only_o this_o that_o in_o some_o of_o their_o certificate_n of_o their_o be_v ordain_v by_o he_o he_o declare_v that_o this_o new_a ordination_n do_v not_o destroy_v their_o former_a order_n if_o they_o have_v any_o etc._n etc._n and_o it_o be_v abundant_o evident_o that_o that_o bishop_n do_v re-ordain_a many_o of_o they_o to_o the_o last_o of_o these_o three_o way_n i_o return_v no_o answer_n because_o he_o himself_o do_v not_o tell_v we_o what_o it_o be_v that_o be_v propose_v in_o the_o bill_n of_o union_n the_o second_o be_v the_o principal_a method_n insist_v on_o and_o that_o be_v hypothetical_n re-ordination_a in_o which_o the_o office_n of_o ordination_n be_v to_o be_v omit_v and_o the_o person_n kneel_v before_o a_o bishop_n the_o bishop_n be_v to_o say_v if_o thou_o be_v not_o already_o ordain_v i_o ordain_v thou_o or_o else_o in_o these_o word_n i_o pray_v god_n that_o thou_o be_v ordain_v etc._n etc._n and_o this_o be_v justify_v by_o the_o instance_n of_o hypothetical_n baptism_n to_o all_o which_o i_o reply_v 1._o that_o the_o presbyterian_o the_o person_n we_o be_v to_o satisfy_v have_v already_o declare_v against_o hypothetical_n ordination_n so_o the_o presbyterian_o at_o the_o savoy_n in_o their_o petition_n for_o peace_n p._n 2._o we_o earnest_o beseech_v you_o that_o re-ordination_a whether_o absolute_a or_o hypothetical_n be_v not_o make_v necessary_a for_o the_o future_a exercise_n of_o our_o ministry_n now_o to_o grant_v they_o what_o they_o have_v already_o declare_v against_o be_v no_o probable_a way_n to_o the_o union_n pretend_v 2._o hypothetical_n baptism_n be_v of_o two_o sort_n 1_o st_z when_o it_o be_v not_o know_v that_o the_o child_n have_v have_v any_o pretend_a baptism_n with_o water_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o trinity_n and_o then_o the_o case_n be_v not_o the_o same_o as_o this_o of_o such_o hypothetical_a rebaptisation_n the_o 5_o council_n of_o carthage_n c._n 3._o be_v to_o be_v understand_v where_o they_o commend_v the_o word_n of_o leo_n iteratum_fw-la dici_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la quod_fw-la nescitur_fw-la ess_n factum_fw-la i._n e._n that_o can_v be_v say_v to_o be_v repeat_v which_o be_v never_o know_v to_o be_v do_v the_o second_o be_v when_o all_o that_o have_v be_v do_v be_v exact_o know_v but_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o person_n baptise_v or_o authenticalness_n of_o what_o be_v do_v be_v call_v in_o question_n and_o in_o this_o case_n the_o presbyterian_o do_v not_o allow_v of_o hypothetical_n baptism_n witness_v the_o synop_n pur_fw-it theol._n p._n 617_o neque_fw-la baptismus_fw-la conditionalis_fw-la probandus_fw-la est_fw-la qui_fw-la a_o pontificiis_fw-la observari_fw-la solet_fw-la i._n e._n neither_o do_v we_o approve_v of_o hypothetical_n baptism_n which_o be_v use_v by_o the_o papist_n for_o they_o to_o gain_v respect_n to_o their_o own_o church_n endeavour_v to_o persuade_v such_o other_o christian_n as_o be_v admit_v into_o their_o church_n to_o be_v hypothetical_o rebaptise_v of_o which_o we_o have_v one_o famous_a instance_n in_o the_o church_n of_o the_o abyssine_n report_v by_o ludolfus_n in_o hist_n aethiop_n l._n 3._o c._n 6._o patres_fw-la societatis_fw-la habessinos_n omnes_fw-la promiscue_n rebaptizaverunt_fw-la sub_fw-la conditione_n tamen_fw-la si_fw-la videlicet_fw-la prio_fw-la baptismus_fw-la non_fw-la rite_n fuisset_fw-la peractus_fw-la quae_fw-la res_fw-la magnam_fw-la illis_fw-la invidiam_fw-la conflavit_fw-la i._n e._n the_o jesuit_n rebaptise_v all_o the_o habessine_n with_o this_o condition_n namely_o if_o their_o former_a baptism_n be_v not_o right_o perform_v which_o thing_n occasion_v great_a trouble_n against_o they_o which_o trouble_v he_o report_v cap._n 13._o the_o habessine_n hate_v they_o for_o nothing_o more_o than_o their_o repeat_n of_o their_o baptism_n as_o if_o before_o that_o they_o have_v be_v heathen_n and_o publican_n and_o be_v it_o not_o evident_a that_o hypothetical_n re-ordination_a will_v produce_v the_o same_o trouble_v here_o when_o by_o this_o very_a act_n our_o church_n plain_o suppose_v that_o they_o be_v not_o ordain_v before_o but_o to_o make_v all_o this_o matter_n plain_a i_o will_v first_o set_v down_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o english_a presbyterian_o then_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o foreign_a reform_a church_n 1._o for_o our_o english_a presbyterian_o t._n c._n the_o ringleader_n of_o that_o party_n have_v be_v ordain_v by_o a_o bishop_n be_v say_v to_o have_v renounce_v his_o order_n and_o take_v new_a order_n from_o presbyter_n in_o scotland_n the_o presbyterian_o reordained_a mr._n john_n cuningham_n former_o ordain_v priest_n by_o the_o bishop_n of_o galloway_n ravil_n rediu._n p._n 29._o a_o whole_a synod_n of_o the_o puritan_n at_o coventry_n a._n d._n 1588._o june_n 10_o condemn_a ordination_n by_o bishop_n as_o unlawful_a and_o far_o declare_v the_o very_a call_n of_o bishop_n unlawful_a bancroft'_v engl._n scotize_v p._n 86._o t._n c._n in_o his_o admonition_n p._n 127_o desire_v the_o bishop_n to_o be_v lay_v aside_o from_o ordain_v minister_n and_o to_o bring_v in_o the_o true_a election_n by_o the_o congregation_n and_o in_o his_o prayer_n before_o his_o sermon_n at_o banbury_n print_v in_o the_o life_n of_o archbishop_n whitgift_n p._n 47._o o_o lord_n give_v we_o grace_n and_o power_n all_o as_o one_o man_n to_o set_v ourselves_o against_o the_o bishop_n apologetical_a narrative_n it_o be_v a_o sin_n to_o take_v episcopal_a order_n or_o to_o own_o the_o authority_n of_o bishop_n and_o to_o mention_v no_o more_o in_o the_o solemn_a league_n and_o covenant_n the_o presbyterian_o of_o both_o nation_n swear_v to_o the_o extirpation_n of_o prelacy_n i._n e._n the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n by_o bishop_n and_o according_o in_o scotland_n the_o presbyterian_o have_v general_o persecute_v all_o those_o that_o have_v episcopal_a ordination_n 2._o for_o the_o foreign_a reform_a church_n observe_v 1sit_v that_o the_o church_n of_o denmark_n and_o norway_n be_v govern_v by_o two_o archbishop_n and_o fourteen_o bishop_n the_o church_n of_o swedeland_n be_v govern_v by_o one_o archbishop_n and_o six_o bishop_n the_o church_n of_o hungary_n and_o transylvania_n be_v govern_v by_o bishop_n the_o reform_a church_n of_o bohemia_n have_v a_o succession_n of_o bishop_n as_o we_o in_o england_n pass_v we_o next_o to_o the_o reform_a church_n of_o germany_n which_o be_v in_o effect_n govern_v by_o bishop_n who_o they_o call_v superintendant_o their_o office_n be_v describe_v in_o the_o harmony_n of_o confess_v p._n 227._o to_o visit_v parochial_a minister_n to_o preside_v in_o synod_n to_o examine_v and_o ordain_v person_n fit_a for_o the_o ministry_n etc._n etc._n to_o which_o agree_v carpzovins_n jurisp_n eccl._n l._n 1._o comenius_n in_o annot._n ad_fw-la rat_n disc_fw-la fratr_n bohem._n where_o he_o observe_v that_o st._n hierom_n call_v a_o bishop_n superintendant_n in_o armenia_n the_o bishop_n be_v call_v martabet_n which_o signify_v superintendant_n say_v rycaut_n hist_n of_o arm._n church_n p._n 392._o and_o zanchy_a say_v that_o the_o protestant_n have_v bishop_n and_o archbishop_n but_o that_o instead_o of_o good_a greek_a name_n they_o call_v they_o by_o bad_a latin_a one_o superintendant_o and_o general_a superintendant_o and_o when_o in_o the_o book_n of_o policy_n a._n d._n 1581._o for_o the_o kingdom_n of_o scotland_n the_o office_n of_o superintendant_o be_v describe_v it_o be_v in_o these_o word_n imprimis_fw-la the_o superintendant_n of_o orkney_n his_o diocese_n shall_v be_v the_o isle_n of_o orkney_n etc._n etc._n the_o superintendant_n of_o rosse_n his_o diocese_n shall_v be_v rosse_n etc._n etc._n the_o superintendant_n of_o edenbrough_n his_o diocese_n shall_v be_v etc._n etc._n the_o superintendant_n of_o glascow_n his_o diocese_n etc._n etc._n in_o all_o ten_o superintendant_o for_o that_o kingdom_n then_o follow_v the_o function_n and_o power_n of_o the_o superintendant_n he_o shall_v plant_v and_o erect_v church_n order_n and_o appoint_v minister_n visit_v etc._n etc._n see_v the_o proceed_n at_o perth_n p._n 14_o 15._o and_o in_o all_o such_o church_n where_o they_o have_v superintendant_o there_o be_v no_o ordination_n allow_v but_o by_o they_o a_o account_n of_o the_o persecute_v in_o scotland_n p._n 58._o there_o be_v not_o a_o false_a proposition_n in_o the_o world_n than_o that_o the_o inclination_n of_o the_o generality_n of_o the_o people_n in_o scotland_n be_v against_o episcopacy_n and_o let_v we_o have_v a_o poll_n for_o it_o when_o they_o will_v and_o you_o shall_v quick_o see_v the_o demonstration_n of_o the_o vulgus_fw-la the_o commonalty_n not_o a_o three_o man_n throughout_o the_o whole_a kingdom_n be_v a_o presbyterian_a and_o of_o person_n of_o better_a quality_n and_o education_n not_o a_o thirteen_o in_o all_o the_o country_n on_o