5._o affirm_v that_o he_o have_v reject_v only_o the_o accident_n of_o his_o popish_a order_n but_o retain_v the_o substance_n still_o m._n mason_n in_o his_o 5._o book_n of_o the_o ordination_n of_o minister_n cap._n 12._o say_v that_o popish_a ordination_n consist_v of_o two_o part_n to_o wit_n of_o power_n to_o offer_v sacrifice_n &_o of_o power_n to_o administer_v the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n and_o albeit_o he_o reject_v the_o former_a yet_o the_o late_a he_o approve_v as_o that_o wherein_o true_a ministry_n consist_v sadeel_n respon_n ad_fw-la artic_a abiurat_n 61._o and_o vorstius_n in_o anti-bellarmin_a pag._n 177._o teach_v the_o same_o and_o so_o must_v all_o other_o do_v who_o hold_v the_o mission_n of_o luther_n and_o their_o first_o minister_n to_o have_v be_v ordinary_a and_o receive_v from_o the_o papist_n which_o opinion_n most_o protestant_n do_v now_o follow_v retract_v upon_o better_a advice_n their_o former_a assertion_n &_o confess_v that_o the_o mission_n of_o their_o new_a reformer_n be_v not_o in_o substance_n extraordinary_a and_o their_o deed_n and_o action_n do_v no_o less_o declare_v their_o approbation_n and_o esteem_n of_o the_o mission_n and_o pastoral_n charge_n which_o be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o as_o turrian_n report_v lib._n 2._o de_fw-fr eccles_n cap._n 3._o and_o luther_n intimate_v tom_n 2._o epist_n ad_fw-la bohemos_n when_o the_o catholic_a bishop_n give_v order_n the_o hussite_n of_o bohemia_n steal_v in_o privy_o among_o the_o rest_n the_o lutheran_n also_o make_v suit_n to_o the_o estate_n of_o the_o empire_n that_o their_o minister_n may_v receive_v order_n from_o the_o bishop_n of_o misnia_n and_o numburg_n and_o in_o artic_a 10._o smalcald_n they_o profess_v thus_o if_o the_o bishop_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n will_v true_o execute_v their_o office_n and_o look_v careful_o to_o the_o church_n and_o word_n of_o god_n it_o may_v be_v permit_v they_o to_o give_v order_n unto_o we_o and_o our_o preacher_n you_o may_v add_v hereunto_o that_o neither_o luther_n nor_o any_o reformer_n else_o ever_o seek_v other_o ordination_n than_o what_o they_o have_v receive_v of_o papist_n and_o that_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o queen_n elizabeth_n reign_n the_o suppose_a prelate_n earnest_o be_v seek_v a_o catholic_a bishop_n to_o consecrate_v they_o and_o even_o to_o this_o day_n if_o any_o renegade_n priest_n join_v himself_o to_o the_o protestant_n they_o order_v he_o not_o anew_o but_o deem_v he_o fit_a for_o their_o ministerial_a function_n by_o virtue_n of_o the_o order_n he_o receive_v of_o papist_n now_o if_o papist_n have_v true_a mission_n true_a pastoral_a charge_n and_o true_a pastor_n church_n true_a mission_n and_o pastor_n inseparable_a from_o the_o church_n sure_o they_o have_v also_o the_o true_a church_n it_o be_v impossible_a that_o the_o church_n shall_v be_v sever_v from_o the_o true_a pastor_n or_o that_o the_o key_n of_o heaven_n which_o be_v in_o the_o true_a pastors_n hand_n shall_v be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n or_o that_o the_o power_n to_o remit_v sin_n the_o prerogative_n of_o true_a pastor_n shall_v be_v where_o the_o church_n be_v not_o nay_o the_o protestant_n themselves_o confess_v as_o much_o luther_n tom_n 4._o in_o cap._n 4._o oseae_n fol._n 295_o true_a it_o be_v that_o the_o ministry_n be_v only_o in_o the_o church_n melancthon_n tom_n 1._o lutheri_fw-la disput_fw-la de_fw-fr eccles_n polit._n fol._n 483_o the_o ordination_n of_o minister_n be_v one_o of_o the_o peculiar_a gift_n of_o the_o church_n caluin_n lib._n de_fw-la neces_fw-la reform_v eccles_n pag._n 57_o this_o one_o reason_n be_v as_o good_a as_o thousand_o that_o who_o so_o have_v show_v himself_o a_o enemy_n to_o true_a doctrine_n have_v lose_v all_o authority_n in_o the_o church_n d._n whitaker_n add_v demonstrat_fw-la 18._o sanderi_fw-la out_o of_o the_o church_n there_o be_v no_o other_o seat_n but_o the_o seat_n of_o error_n of_o pestilence_n and_o everlasting_a destruction_n the_o same_o teach_v sadeel_n ad_fw-la sophism_n turrian_n loc_fw-la 10._o d._n field_n in_o his_o 1._o book_n of_o the_o church_n cap._n 14._o and_o other_o 5._o five_o it_o be_v evident_a by_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o sacramentary_n who_o hold_v that_o the_o child_n of_o papist_n be_v in_o the_o covenant_n of_o god_n and_o estate_n of_o salvation_n through_o the_o faith_n of_o their_o parent_n parent_n papists_n child_n save_v by_o the_o faith_n of_o their_o parent_n and_o may_v therefore_o be_v baptize_v much_o more_o than_o must_v they_o teach_v that_o the_o parent_n themselves_o be_v for_o their_o own_o faith_n in_o the_o covenant_n of_o god_n and_o estate_n of_o salvation_n which_o can_v not_o be_v be_v they_o not_o in_o the_o church_n the_o antecedent_n be_v manifest_a by_o the_o say_n of_o many_o protestant_n for_o thus_o write_v luther_n lib._n the_o cap_a babylon_n tom_fw-mi 2._o fol._n 77_o here_o i_o say_v that_o which_o all_o say_v that_o infant_n be_v holpen_v by_o the_o faith_n of_o they_o which_o offer_v they_o caluin_n in_o his_o catechism_n cap._n de_fw-fr lege_fw-la god_n extend_v his_o bounty_n so_o far_o unto_o the_o faithful_a that_o for_o their_o sake_n he_o be_v good_a to_o their_o child_n not_o only_a blessing_n their_o affair_n in_o this_o world_n but_o also_o sanctify_v their_o soul_n that_o they_o may_v be_v account_v of_o his_o flock_n contr._n seruetum_n pag._n 601_o we_o think_v that_o there_o will_v be_v no_o use_n of_o baptism_n until_o this_o promise_n i_o will_v be_v thy_o god_n and_o of_o thy_o seed_n be_v apprehend_v by_o faith_n but_o every_o one_o apprehend_v it_o not_o only_o to_o himself_o but_o also_o to_o his_o issue_n beza_n part_n 2._o respon_n ad_fw-la acta_fw-la montisbel_n pag._n 118_o parent_n through_o god_n grace_n do_v apprehend_v grace_n by_o true_a faith_n according_a to_o the_o form_n of_o the_o covenant_n as_o well_o to_o their_o posterity_n as_o to_o themselves_o which_o he_o oftentimes_o repeat_v and_o likewise_o in_o confess_v cap._n 4._o sect_n 48._o and_o cap._n 5._o sect_n 9_o and_o pag._n 126_o m._n perkins_n de_fw-fr sacramento_n baptismi_fw-la tom_n 1._o col_fw-fr 846_o other_o say_v that_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o parent_n be_v also_o the_o faith_n of_o their_o child_n all_o the_o time_n of_o their_o infancy_n or_o childhood_n and_o that_o because_o parent_n do_v by_o their_o faith_n apprehend_v the_o promise_n both_o for_o themselves_o and_o for_o their_o child_n which_o opinion_n seemeeh_a to_o i_o the_o fit_a of_o all_o the_o like_a he_o say_v in_o cap._n 3._o galat._n the_o sequel_n likewise_o be_v undoubted_a for_o if_o the_o faith_n of_o popish_a parent_n be_v of_o force_n to_o establish_v their_o very_a child_n in_o the_o covenant_n of_o god_n and_o estate_n of_o salvation_n though_o it_o reside_v not_o in_o they_o nor_o be_v their_o act_n much_o more_o do_v it_o establish_v the_o parent_n themselves_o who_o have_v that_o faith_n in_o they_o and_o who_o act_n it_o be_v nor_o do_v the_o instance_n d._n morton_n bring_v against_o it_o in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o protestant_n apology_n lib._n 4._o cap._n 6._o make_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o purpose_n as_o that_o in_o case_n of_o necessity_n a_o heretical_a priest_n or_o schismatic_n may_v absolve_v from_o sin_n and_o a_o infidel_n administer_v baptism_n again_o that_o if_o such_o as_o be_v free_a of_o a_o city_n and_o be_v arraign_v of_o treason_n shall_v have_v issue_n after_o their_o condemnation_n their_o child_n nevertheless_o shall_v enjoy_v the_o title_n and_o right_a of_o citizen_n whereof_o their_o parent_n be_v destitute_a these_o example_n i_o say_v be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n because_o he_o who_o be_v either_o baptize_v by_o a_o infidel_n or_o absolve_v by_o a_o heretical_a priest_n enter_v not_o into_o the_o covenant_n of_o god_n and_o estate_n of_o salvation_n for_o aught_o that_o be_v in_o the_o person_n which_o baptize_v or_o absolu_v he_o but_o for_o the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n or_o penance_n which_o he_o receive_v indeed_o by_o the_o other_o administration_n but_o have_v it_o in_o himself_o and_o the_o son_n of_o a_o traitor_n be_v not_o make_v a_o citizen_n in_o regard_n of_o any_o thing_n that_o be_v in_o the_o father_n alone_o but_o for_o his_o own_o birth_n which_o appertain_v to_o himself_o though_o his_o father_n be_v author_n thereof_o but_o the_o sacramentary_n teach_v that_o the_o child_n of_o a_o papist_n be_v in_o the_o covenant_n of_o god_n and_o estate_n of_o salvation_n not_o for_o his_o own_o faith_n for_o they_o say_v he_o have_v none_o but_o for_o the_o belief_n of_o his_o father_n which_o be_v no_o way_n possible_a if_o the_o same_o faith_n be_v not_o of_o force_n to_o work_v the_o like_a effect_n in_o the_o father_n himself_o see_v it_o belong_v far_o more_o to_o he_o then_o to_o his_o child_n and_o therefore_o must_v
donatist_n zanchius_n of_o the_o church_n pag._n 138_o i_o admit_v that_o succession_n of_o true_a bishop_n be_v a_o mark_n of_o the_o church_n and_o of_o this_o speak_v the_o father_n the_o like_a confess_v caluin_n respon_n ad_fw-la versipellem_fw-la pag._n 358._o and_o 4._o institut_fw-la cap._n 2._o §_o 3._o beza_n epist_n 1._o plessy_n de_fw-fr eccles_n cap._n 3._o fulke_o the_o success_n pag._n 36._o d._n morton_n apol._n part_n 1._o lib._n 1._o cap._n 13._o james_n andrews_n count_v hosium_n pag._n 89._o and_o other_o neither_o be_v it_o true_a which_o d._n whitaker_n and_o sadeel_n say_v that_o the_o father_n do_v not_o think_v that_o they_o convince_v the_o heretic_n not_o to_o be_v the_o church_n because_o they_o want_v succesion_n of_o pastor_n for_o s._n irenaeus_n say_v that_o hereby_o he_o confound_v heretic_n and_o that_o this_o be_v a_o most_o full_a demostration_n s._n augustine_n write_v that_o this_o argument_n of_o succession_n hold_v he_o in_o the_o church_n s._n athanasius_n call_v it_o a_o notable_a and_o admirable_a argument_n and_o sadeel_n himself_o loc_n cit_fw-la say_v that_o with_o this_o batter_a ram_n s._n cyprian_n do_v especial_o vanquish_v the_o novatians_n and_o peter_n martyr_n in_o his_o common_a place_n tit_n de_fw-fr schismate_fw-la write_v that_o s._n augustine_n argument_n take_v from_o the_o succession_n of_o pastor_n be_v very_o evident_a against_o the_o donatist_n pastor_n protestant_n confess_v necessity_n of_o pastor_n 4._o three_o i_o prove_v that_o the_o church_n can_v be_v without_o pastor_n because_o eftsoon_o the_o protestant_n confess_v it_o luther_n upon_o 10._o chap._n of_o genesis_n tom_n 6._o fol._n 125_o the_o church_n can_v consist_v without_o continual_a use_n of_o the_o word_n and_o of_o the_o note_n of_o the_o church_n tom_fw-mi 7._o fol._n 151_o the_o church_n can_v be_v without_o pastor_n melancthon_n upon_o the._n 3._o cap._n of_o math._n tom_n 1._o fol._n 258_o god_n will_v always_o have_v some_o public_a ministry_n he_o will_v not_o suffer_v the_o public_a ministry_n to_o be_v destroy_v and_o in_o cap._n 16._o pag._n 489_o there_o be_v no_o church_n where_o there_o be_v no_o true_a ministry_n and_o ibide_v in_o his_o sermon_n upon_o the_o rock_n pag._n 176_o the_o church_n be_v build_v upon_o the_o ministry_n and_o tom_n 1._o in_o loc_n cap._n de_fw-fr eccles_n fol._n 227_o we_o must_v not_o seigne_n a_o church_n without_o the_o ministry_n and_o cap._n de_fw-la numero_fw-la sacramentorum_fw-la fol._n 334_o the_o ministry_n can_v be_v quite_o destroy_v and_o in_o his_o dispute_n of_o ecclesiast_fw-la policy_n tom_n 1._o lutheri_fw-la fol._n 442_o the_o church_n can_v exist_v this_o ministry_n be_v extinguish_v kemnice_n in_o his_o common_a place_n tit_n of_o the_o church_n cap._n 4_o there_o be_v promise_n extant_a of_o the_o perpetual_a conservation_n of_o the_o ministry_n in_o the_o church_n gerlachius_n disput_fw-la 22._o pag._n 940_o the_o public_a ministry_n be_v always_o conserve_v james_n andrews_n against_o hosius_n pag._n 330_o no_o man_n deni_v that_o the_o church_n can_v be_v without_o bishop_n oecolampadius_n upon_o the_o 62._o cap._n of_o isaias_n pag._n 30â—_n god_n raise_v up_o at_o all_o time_n apostle_n and_o preacher_n bolanus_n in_o his_o synâ—agme_n lib._n 7._o cap._n 11_o the_o function_n of_o ordinary_a minister_n after_o the_o ecclesiastical_a order_n be_v one_o settle_v be_v perpetual_a and_o to_o endure_v to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n caluin_n 4._o institut_fw-la cap._n 2._o §_o 4_o for_o neither_o the_o light_n and_o heat_n of_o the_o sun_n nor_o meat_n and_o drink_n be_v so_o necessary_a to_o cherish_v and_o sustain_v the_o present_a life_n as_o the_o pastoral_n function_n be_v for_o to_o conserve_v the_o church_n on_o earth_n and_o §_o 3_o god_n have_v settle_v forever_o the_o way_n of_o govern_v and_o hold_v his_o church_n by_o minister_n and_o §_o 4_o the_o church_n can_v never_o want_v pastor_n and_o teacher_n beza_n de_fw-fr notis_n eccles_n pag._n 60_o the_o church_n can_v never_o want_v either_o the_o seed_n of_o the_o word_n or_o sow_v or_o sower_n vorstius_n in_o antibellarm_n pag._n 197_o the_o ghospeller_n acknowledge_v the_o 3._o other_o order_n to_o be_v perpetual_a in_o the_o church_n to_o wit_n pastor_n priest_n and_o deacon_n d._n whitaker_n count_v 2._o quest_n 3_o cap._n 2._o pag._n 469_o i_o answer_v that_o there_o be_v always_o pastor_n and_o sheep_n and_o that_o there_o shall_v be_v ever_o pastor_n to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n and_o quest_n 5._o cap._n 6._o pag._n 508_o i_o confess_v the_o succession_n of_o pastor_n to_o be_v necessary_a again_o i_o answer_v that_o the_o church_n can_v stand_v without_o pastor_n d._n fulke_o de_fw-fr success_n pag._n 22_o i_o grant_v that_o the_o succession_n of_o pastor_n be_v necessary_a in_o the_o church_n and_o pag._n 95_o the_o true_a doctrine_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o apostle_n never_o want_v crier_n d._n white_a in_o defence_n of_o his_o way_n cap._n 35._o pag._n 381_o the_o church_n shall_v never_o want_v pastor_n and_o his_o majesty_n in_o his_o monitory_a epistle_n pag._n 61_o neither_o can_v hell_n stand_v without_o some_o order_n and_o distinction_n the_o devil_n be_v divide_v into_o legion_n and_o have_v their_o prince_n how_o then_o can_v any_o compaâ—â—on_a earth_n stand_v which_o be_v confuse_v and_o disorder_v without_o all_o difference_n of_o order_n or_o dignity_n you_o see_v how_o confuse_a a_o thing_n protestant_n account_n the_o church_n to_o be_v without_o pastor_n and_o that_o they_o speak_v far_o otherwise_o of_o the_o church_n when_o they_o consider_v the_o true_a nature_n thereof_o then_o when_o they_o look_v upon_o the_o condition_n of_o their_o own_o church_n in_o former_a time_n before_o luther_n neither_o do_v they_o only_o sometime_o confess_v that_o the_o church_n can_v be_v without_o pastor_n but_o also_o acknowledge_v that_o scripture_n â—oâ—h_n teach_v so_o for_o thuâ—_n melancthon_n in_o his_o foresay_a dispute_n fol._n 483_o pastor_n scripture_n require_v pastor_n where_o the_o church_n be_v there_o must_v needs_o be_v lawful_a ordination_n of_o minister_n which_o ordination_n be_v one_o of_o the_o proper_a gift_n of_o the_o church_n according_a to_o that_o of_o the_o 4._o chap._n to_o the_o ephesian_n he_o have_v give_v pastor_n etc._n etc._n kemnice_n in_o the_o 2._o part_n of_o his_o examen_fw-la tit_n de_fw-fr sacramento_n ordinis_fw-la pag._n 192_o the_o son_n of_o god_n himself_o will_v conserve_v in_o the_o church_n with_o perpetual_a call_v the_o ministry_n of_o those_o who_o teach_v the_o gospel_n so_o say_v paul_n ephes_n 4._o caluin_n 4_o institut_fw-la cap._n 3._o §_o 2_o in_o these_o word_n ephes_n 4_o he_o show_v the_o ministry_n to_o be_v the_o chief_a sinew_n wherewith_o the_o faithful_a hang_v together_o in_o one_o body_n and_o insinuate_v also_o that_o the_o church_n can_v otherwise_o be_v safe_a unless_o it_o be_v prop_v with_o these_o help_n in_o which_o god_n will_v place_v her_o safety_n the_o like_a he_o have_v in_o cap._n 4._o ephes_n and_o 1._o cor._n cap._n 6._o and_o 12._o and_o 1._o tim._n cap._n 3._o d_o whitaker_n cont._n 2._o quest_n 5._o cap._n 19_o pag._n 549_o this_o place_n of_o esay_n cap._n 59_o my_o spirit_n etc._n etc._n show_v that_o the_o true_a preach_v of_o the_o word_n shall_v be_v perpetual_a in_o the_o church_n d._n whitgift_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o admonition_n pag._n 17_o the_o place_n of_o matthew_n 9_o show_v that_o minister_n be_v necessary_a in_o the_o church_n d._n fulk_n ad_fw-la cavillat_n stapl_n you_o do_v that_o which_o be_v do_v already_o while_o you_o prove_v out_o of_o the_o apostle_n writing_n that_o the_o continuance_n of_o the_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n be_v of_o no_o less_o certainty_n than_o the_o continuance_n of_o faith_n and_o doctrine_n and_o the_o success_n pag._n 180_o the_o scripture_n promise_v perpetual_a succession_n of_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n faith_n preach_v necessary_a to_o faith_n 5._o four_o i_o prove_v this_o same_o because_o protestant_n sometime_o do_v teach_v that_o preach_v which_o can_v be_v do_v without_o pastor_n be_v necessary_a to_o engraft_v faith_n in_o man_n for_o as_o before_o we_o rehearse_v they_o condemn_v the_o anabaptist_n and_o suenckfeldians_n in_o that_o they_o teach_v that_o man_n can_v come_v to_o faith_n without_o preach_v and_o luther_n tom_n 1._o fol._n 54._o write_v that_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o word_n by_o a_o priest_n be_v needful_a for_o faith_n and_o cont._n caterin_n tom_n 2._o fol._n 140._o say_v that_o by_o the_o vocal_a word_n the_o church_n be_v conceive_v form_v nourish_v beget_v and_o conserve_v and_o de_fw-fr instituendis_fw-la ministris_fw-la fol._n 372_o see_v the_o church_n be_v bring_v forth_o nourish_v and_o conserve_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n it_o be_v manifest_a that_o she_o can_v be_v without_o the_o word_n or_o if_o it_o be_v without_o
be_v not_o where_o chap._n ix_o 1._o the_o first_o demonstration_n for_o to_o prove_v that_o luther_n be_v author_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n and_o religion_n place_n protestant_n name_v not_o the_o place_n shall_v be_v take_v from_o want_n of_o place_n to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v no_o where_n before_o luther_n begin_v and_o this_o i_o prove_v first_o because_o they_o oftentimes_o say_v that_o before_o luther_n time_n their_o church_n be_v in_o the_o desert_n in_o darkness_n in_o lurk_a hole_n in_o trephonius_n den_n nevertheless_o they_o tell_v not_o where_o this_o desert_n this_o darkness_n this_o lurk_a hole_n this_o den_n be_v second_o some_o of_o they_o confess_v that_o they_o know_v not_o where_o their_o church_n be_v in_o time_n paâ—t_fw-la d._n whitaker_n cont._n â—â—_o quest_n 3._o cap._n 3._o pag._n 475_o place_n know_v not_o the_o place_n they_o be_v angry_a with_o we_o that_o we_o can_v â—hew_v and_o as_o it_o be_v point_n with_o our_o finger_n where_o our_o church_n be_v in_o time_n past_a the_o same_o insinuate_v sadeel_n ad_fw-la repetit_fw-la sophism_n turriani_n pag._n 766._o saying_n that_o he_o answer_v this_o question_n where_o there_o church_n lurk_v when_o he_o say_v that_o it_o lay_v hide_v by_o the_o unsearchable_a judgement_n of_o god_n as_o if_o he_o say_v it_o lay_v so_o close_o hide_v that_o it_o can_v be_v know_v where_o it_o lay_v also_o d._n hall_n in_o his_o rome_n irreconcilable_a sect_n 1._o when_o he_o call_v this_o our_o demand_n where_o their_o church_n lurk_v a_o idle_a demand_n of_o pettifogger_n but_o that_o it_o be_v no_o idle_a demand_n be_v manifest_a for_o first_o what_o man_n in_o his_o wit_n see_v not_o that_o she_o who_o be_v pretend_v to_o be_v the_o catholic_a church_n that_o be_v spread_v over_o the_o world_n be_v not_o at_o all_o if_o no_o place_n can_v be_v find_v where_o she_o be_v for_o many_o age_n again_o because_o the_o holy_a father_n and_o protestant_n themselves_o demand_v this_o of_o heretic_n who_o be_v you_o say_v tertullian_n when_o 32.37_o praes_n 32.37_o and_o whence_o come_v you_o where_o lurk_v you_o so_o long_o again_o let_v they_o bring_v forth_o the_o oâ—spring_n of_o their_o church_n s._n athanasius_n whence_o come_v these_o thing_n yea_o what_o hell_n have_v vomit_v they_o out_o 2._o lib._n de_fw-fr nicen_n synod_n &_o de_fw-fr syn._n selenuc_fw-la lib_fw-la 3_o de_fw-la bapt._n c._n 2._o and_o s._n augustine_n where_o appear_v donatus_n out_o of_o what_o ground_n spring_v he_o out_o of_o what_o sea_n arise_v he_o from_o what_o heaven_n fall_v he_o and_o beza_n epist_n 18._o demand_v the_o like_a of_o the_o arian_n saying_n if_o their_o opinion_n be_v true_a we_o bid_v they_o show_v then_o where_o be_v their_o church_n beside_o the_o confession_n of_o saxony_n chap._n of_o the_o church_n profess_v that_o the_o true_a church_n know_v where_o the_o be_v and_o kemnice_n in_o his_o common_a place_n tit_n de_fw-fr eccles_n cap._n 3_o god_n will_v have_v we_o to_o know_v which_o and_o where_o be_v the_o true_a church_n wherefore_o it_o be_v no_o idle_a but_o a_o most_o necessary_a thing_n to_o know_v where_o the_o church_n be_v and_o if_o protestant_n immediate_o before_o luther_n arise_v know_v not_o where_o the_o church_n be_v it_o must_v needs_o follow_v that_o she_o be_v not_o the_o true_a church_n church_n catholics_n always_o ask_v where_o be_v the_o protestant_a church_n 2._o three_o i_o prove_v it_o because_o even_o those_o who_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o tell_v where_o their_o church_n be_v in_o former_a time_n do_v show_v indeed_o that_o they_o know_v no_o place_n where_o she_o be_v for_o as_o m._n jewel_n say_v art_n 1._o divis_fw-la 7._o pag._n 10_o eckius_fw-la pighius_fw-la hosius_n and_o other_o have_v often_o cry_v out_o a_o main_n in_o their_o book_n and_o pulpit_n where_o be_v your_o religion_n before_o luther_n first_o begin_v to_o preach_v and_o that_o the_o same_o have_v be_v demand_v by_o catholics_n confess_v peter_n martyr_n in_o locis_fw-la tit_n de_fw-fr discessu_fw-la ab_fw-la eccl._n rom._n col_fw-fr 1492._o beza_n de_fw-fr notis_n eccles_n pag._n 78._o and_o in_o his_o 132._o question_n d._n whitaker_n cont._n 2._o quest_n 3._o cap._n 3._o m._n perkins_n in_o his_o reform_a catholic_a tract_n 22._o cap._n 1._o and_o other_o and_o it_o be_v manifest_a by_o the_o writing_n &_o speech_n of_o all_o catholic_n yea_o luther_n in_o cap._n 19_o isaiae_n tom_n 4._o fol._n 125._o write_v that_o this_o be_v our_o first_o argument_n against_o they_o and_o will_v be_v our_o last_o be_v thou_o alone_o wise_a or_o do_v thou_o think_v that_o all_o our_o ancestor_n see_v nothing_o do_v all_o those_o who_o be_v before_o thou_o err_v because_o he_o see_v that_o this_o argument_n do_v most_o press_v he_o and_o that_o he_o can_v never_o answer_v it_o let_v we_o see_v therefore_o what_o they_o answer_v to_o this_o our_o first_o and_o last_o demand_n so_o often_o and_o with_o such_o earnestness_n and_o so_o great_a cry_v propose_v of_o us._n d._n whitaker_n count_v 2._o quest_n 3._o cap._n 2._o propose_v their_o answer_n in_o these_o word_n answer_v protestant_n answer_v stapleton_n say_v that_o caluin_n and_o we_o say_v that_o the_o true_a church_n be_v in_o popery_n but_o that_o popery_n be_v not_o the_o church_n that_o indeed_o we_o all_o say_v and_o the_o same_o in_o substance_n answer_v luther_n lib._n de_fw-la seru_fw-la arbit_fw-la tom_fw-mi 2._o foe_n 438._o in_o psalmos_fw-la graduales_fw-la to_o 3._o fol._n 589._o and_o de_fw-fr missa_fw-la privata_fw-la tom_n 7._o fol._n 236._o james_n andrew_n cont_n hosium_n pag._n 326._o herbrand_n in_o compend_n theol._n loc_fw-la de_fw-fr eccl._n pag._n 502._o hunnius_n praefat._n tract_n de_fw-fr justific_a huberus_n in_o antibellarm_n lib._n 4._o cap._n 2._o hutter_n in_o aâ—alysi_n confess_v august_n p._n 447._o gerlachius_n disput_fw-la 22._o p._n 952._o lobechius_n disp_n 10._o pag._n 202._o gesnerus_fw-la loc_fw-la 24._o reineccius_n lib._n 4._o armaturae_fw-la cap._n 3._o and_o among_o the_o sacramentary_n caluin_n 4._o instit_fw-la cap._n 2._o §_o 11._o peter_n martyr_n beza_n and_o m._n perkins_n locis_fw-la cit_fw-la sadeel_n in_o refut_n thes_n posnan_n cap._n 8._o polanus_fw-la part_n 3._o thes_n de_fw-fr eccl._n daneus_fw-la de_fw-la antichristo_fw-la cap._n ult._n junius_n lib._n 4._o de_fw-fr eccl._n cap._n 166._o vorstius_n in_o catechism_n quest_n 54._o art_n 2._o sohnius_n in_o method_n theol._n pag._n 213._o bucanus_n loc_fw-la 4._o de_fw-fr eccl._n and_o other_o common_o 3._o but_o this_o answer_n satisfi_v not_o our_o question_n for_o many_o cause_n first_o because_o to_o say_v that_o the_o church_n be_v in_o popery_n but_o popery_n be_v not_o the_o church_n do_v not_o seem_v a_o answer_n but_o a_o riddle_n &_o perhaps_o put_v of_o purpose_n because_o as_o bucer_n say_v zanchii_n lib._n 1._o epist_n zanchii_n protestant_n mystery_n must_v not_o be_v expound_v to_o papist_n second_o they_o agree_v not_o among_o themselves_o what_o they_o mean_v by_o popery_n for_o boysseul_n in_o his_o confutation_n of_o spondé_n pag._n 723._o will_v have_v it_o to_o be_v popish_a doctrine_n say_v he_o know_v not_o what_o we_o call_v popery_n he_o imagine_v that_o it_o be_v man_n but_o we_o say_v that_o it_o be_v heresy_n and_o error_n the_o abuse_n &_o idolatry_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o d._n white_a in_o defence_n of_o his_o way_n cap._n 32._o pag._n 305_o the_o papacy_n be_v nothing_o else_o but_o a_o disease_n or_o excrement_n breed_v in_o the_o church_n moulins_n of_o arnolds_n flight_n cap._n 6_o popery_n be_v a_o mass_n of_o error_n and_o corruption_n of_o christianity_n and_o caluin_n in_o 1._o galat._n v._n 9_o popery_n be_v a_o horrible_a overthrow_n of_o the_o gospel_n other_o by_o popery_n understand_v the_o company_n of_o papist_n schusselburg_n tom_n 8._o catal._n heret_fw-la pag._n 480._o write_v that_o popery_n signify_v a_o company_n and_o james_n andrew_n cont._n hosium_n pag._n 326._o say_v popery_n that_o be_v the_o pope_n bishop_n and_o they_o who_o consent_n to_o their_o impiety_n three_o popery_n whereby_o you_o understand_v such_o a_o company_n or_o such_o doctrine_n be_v no_o place_n &_o we_o ask_v for_o the_o place_n wherein_o protestant_n be_v before_o luther_n tyme._n four_o because_o we_o ask_v not_o where_o only_o they_o say_v their_o church_n be_v for_o what_o can_v they_o not_o say_v but_o where_o they_o prove_v their_o church_n to_o have_v be_v 33._o lib._n 1._o count_n gaud._n c._n 33._o wherefore_o that_o i_o may_v imitate_v s._n augustin_n word_n i_o demand_v whither_o god_n tell_v they_o that_o their_o church_n be_v in_o time_n pass_v in_o popery_n or_o man_n if_o god_n let_v they_o read_v it_o out_o of_o the_o scripture_n if_o man_n let_v they_o bring_v he_o forth_o that_o we_o may_v judge_v whither_o he_o be_v worthy_a to_o be_v believe_v or_o no._n
5._o cap._n 3._o pag._n 684_o in_o time_n past_o no_o religion_n have_v place_n in_o church_n but_o papistical_a d._n humphrey_n ad_fw-la rat._n 3._o campiani_n at_o length_n all_o left_a the_o fellowship_n of_o the_o church_n m._n perkins_n in_o exposit_n symboli_fw-la during_o the_o space_n of_o 900._o year_n the_o popish_a heresy_n spread_v itself_o over_o the_o whole_a world_n and_o d._n white_a in_o his_o way_n pag._n 352._o compare_v popery_n before_o luther_n time_n to_o a_o leprosy_n which_o say_v he_o possess_v every_o part_n of_o man_n and_o in_o his_o defence_n cap._n 37_o he_o say_v i_o affirm_v papacy_n to_o be_v a_o leprosy_n breed_v in_o the_o church_n so_o universal_o that_o there_o be_v no_o visible_a company_n of_o people_n appear_v to_o the_o world_n free_a â—â—om_n it_o and_o whether_o any_o company_n at_o all_o know_v or_o unknown_a be_v free_a from_o it_o whole_o or_o not_o i_o neither_o determine_v nor_o great_o care_v m._n jewel_n serm_n in_o cap._n 11._o lucae_n pag._n 208_o when_o all_o the_o world_n the_o people_n priest_n and_o prince_n be_v overwhelm_v with_o ignorance_n when_o the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v put_v out_o of_o sight_n when_o all_o school_n priest_n bishop_n &_o king_n of_o the_o world_n be_v swear_v to_o he_o the_o pope_n that_o whatsoever_o he_o take_v in_o hand_n they_o shall_v uphold_v it_o when_o whosoever_o have_v mutter_v against_o he_o must_v straight_o way_n have_v be_v excommunicate_a &_o put_v to_o most_o cruel_a death_n as_o god_n enemy_n m._n fox_n in_o his_o act_n p._n 391_o all_o the_o whole_a world_n be_v fill_v and_o overwhelm_v with_o error_n and_o darkness_n and_o final_o d._n bancroft_n in_o his_o survey_n c._n 4._o pag_n 60._o have_v these_o word_n both_o the_o priest_n of_o all_o sort_n and_o likewise_o the_o people_n become_v in_o time_n to_o be_v so_o drown_v in_o the_o puddle_n of_o popery_n all_o of_o they_o together_o from_o the_o top_n to_o the_o toe_n toe_n all_o people_n from_o the_o top_n to_o the_o toe_n forget_v etc._n etc._n 5._o by_o these_o confession_n of_o protestant_n we_o see_v plain_o that_o all_o the_o western_a church_n all_o europe_n all_o christian_a church_n the_o whole_a christian_a nation_n the_o whole_a body_n of_o the_o church_n the_o whole_a world_n all_o all_o without_o exception_n all_o alike_o all_o even_a to_o the_o last_o all_o even_a to_o the_o common_a people_n all_o king_n and_o people_n from_o the_o first_o to_o the_o last_o all_o priest_n and_o people_n from_o top_n to_o toe_n all_o and_o every_o one_o be_v overwhelm_v with_o popish_a and_o more_o than_o cymmerian_a darkness_n second_o we_o see_v that_o no_o man_n strone_n against_o popery_n no_o man_n admonish_v no_o man_n teach_v no_o man_n believe_v no_o man_n so_o much_o as_o dream_v of_o that_o which_o be_v the_o chief_a and_o most_o principal_a point_n of_o protestancy_n but_o one_o only_o and_o luther_n alone_o be_v wise_a three_o that_o the_o case_n be_v such_o for_o so_o many_o age_n for_o 600._o yea_o for_o 900._o year_n last_o pass_v four_o that_o it_o be_v so_o manifest_a that_o as_o themselves_o confess_v the_o whole_a christian_a world_n know_v it_o it_o be_v confess_v manifest_a by_o itself_o most_o clear_a and_o out_o of_o all_o doubt_n and_o no_o man_n in_o his_o writ_n can_v deny_v it_o to_o all_o which_o if_o you_o add_v that_o very_o many_o and_o most_o famous_a protestant_n oftentimes_o most_o plain_o most_o free_o and_o in_o all_o kind_n of_o writing_n have_v confess_v this_o you_o shall_v most_o evident_o perceive_v 15._o lib._n 1._o count_v marc_n ca._n 3._o de_fw-la carne_fw-la chr._n c._n 5._o li._n 22_o cont_n faust_n c._n 15._o that_o unless_o it_o be_v heretical_a licence_n as_o tertullian_n speak_v or_o by_o some_o devilish_a privilege_n as_o s._n augustin_n word_n be_v their_o confession_n can_v be_v understand_v in_o no_o other_o sense_n then_o that_o when_o luther_n begin_v there_o be_v not_o one_o protestant_a in_o the_o whole_a world_n last_o we_o see_v hereby_o that_o protestant_n herein_o imitate_v the_o phrase_n of_o old_a heretic_n 4._o cont._n epist_n fund_z c._n 4._o for_o manichee_n as_o s._n augustin_n write_v say_v almost_o all_o nation_n be_v ignorant_a how_o the_o truth_n be_v and_o the_o donatist_n the_o church_n be_v perish_v from_o the_o whole_a world_n the_o luciferian_o in_o s._n hierome_n 69._o heres_fw-la 69._o the_o whole_a world_n be_v become_v devil_n who_o damn_a speech_n say_v he_o do_v frustrate_v the_o passion_n of_o christ_n lucifer_n dial._n count_v lucifer_n nestorius_n in_o vincent_n lyrin_fw-mi avouch_v that_o the_o whole_a church_n have_v err_v and_o other_o heretic_n there_o say_v learn_v true_a faith_n which_o beside_o we_o none_o understand_v 26._o cap._n 26._o which_o lie_v hide_v for_o many_o age_n and_o now_o of_o late_o be_v reveal_v and_o show_v martion_n also_o and_o valentinian_n in_o tertullian_n avouch_v 28._o praes_n c._n 28._o that_o all_o have_v err_v at_o who_o he_o pleasant_o jest_v in_o these_o word_n forsooth_o truth_n which_o be_v to_o be_v free_v expect_v some_o marcionist_n or_o valentinian_o lutheran_n or_o caluinist_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n man_n preach_v amiss_o believe_v amiss_o so_o many_o thousand_o we_o wrong_o christen_v so_o many_o work_n of_o faith_n wrong_o do_v so_o many_o miracle_n so_o many_o grace_n do_v amiss_o so_o many_o priesthood_n so_o many_o function_n wrong_o execute_v 6._o if_o any_o say_v that_o the_o scripture_n sometime_o speak_v universal_o when_o notwithstanding_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v understand_v universal_o as_o when_o it_o say_v all_o seek_v their_o own_o there_o be_v not_o one_o that_o do_v good_a no_o not_o one_o and_o the_o like_a and_o therefore_o though_o the_o foresay_a speech_n of_o protestant_n be_v universal_a yet_o they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v understand_v universal_o i_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v find_v to_o affirm_v that_o the_o foresay_a speech_n of_o protestant_n ought_v to_o be_v understand_v according_a to_o certain_a speech_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o those_o speak_v of_o other_o matter_n rather_o than_o according_a to_o their_o own_o plain_a and_o manifest_a signification_n who_o make_v this_o law_n of_o expound_v protestant_n word_n or_o do_v they_o keep_v it_o in_o expound_v catholik_o or_o other_o man_n word_n god_n may_v speak_v in_o scripture_n as_o he_o think_v best_o protestant_n ought_v according_a to_o custom_n which_o as_o be_v say_v be_v the_o law_n and_o rule_n of_o speech_n both_o to_o speak_v and_o to_o be_v understand_v beside_o since_o we_o know_v that_o the_o scripture_n can_v lie_v or_o gainsay_v itself_o and_o in_o other_o place_n it_o say_v the_o contrary_a we_o just_o limitate_v its_o universal_a speech_n in_o this_o or_o that_o place_n and_o therefore_o unless_a protestant_n can_v show_v that_o they_o have_v the_o like_a privilege_n that_o they_o can_v contradict_v themselves_o as_o the_o scripture_n have_v there_o be_v no_o reason_n to_o expound_v they_o according_a as_o we_o do_v the_o holy_a scripture_n 7._o if_o any_o reply_n that_o also_o saint_n hierome_n dial._n cont_n lucifer_n say_v that_o the_o whole_a world_n marvel_v how_o it_o be_v become_v arian_n and_o yet_o mean_v not_o that_o the_o whole_a world_n be_v arian_n i_o answer_v that_o saint_n hieromes_n example_n do_v nothing_o avail_v protestant_n first_o because_o saint_n hierome_n say_v once_o so_o protestant_n very_o often_o again_o he_o say_v so_o only_o in_o heat_n of_o dispute_n with_o his_o adversary_n protestant_n have_v write_v so_o when_o they_o dispute_v with_o none_o beside_o saint_n hierome_n in_o the_o very_a same_o place_n expound_v himself_o that_o he_o mean_v not_o that_o indeed_o the_o whole_a world_n be_v become_v arian_n for_o he_o say_v that_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o the_o bishop_n be_v not_o arian_n but_o believe_v a_o right_a and_o abode_n in_o the_o agreement_n of_o faith_n but_o only_o speak_v so_o because_o all_o the_o bishop_n assemble_v at_o arimini_fw-la yield_v to_o the_o arian_n that_o the_o word_n consubstantial_a shall_v not_o be_v use_v but_o protestant_n say_v not_o that_o all_o the_o world_n yield_v to_o the_o pope_n about_o the_o suppress_n of_o one_o only_a word_n but_o that_o all_o from_o the_o first_o to_o the_o last_o from_o the_o top_n to_o the_o toe_n be_v drown_v in_o popish_a error_n and_o none_o believe_v or_o so_o much_o as_o dream_v of_o that_o which_o be_v most_o fundamental_a and_o necessary_a in_o protestant_a religion_n which_o kind_n of_o speech_n s._n hierome_n never_o use_v again_o saint_n hierome_n use_v only_o this_o phrase_n the_o whole_a world_n but_o protestant_n use_v both_o that_o and_o many_o more_o and_o more_o plain_a last_o albeit_o saint_n hierome_n have_v speak_v altogether_o as_o protestant_n do_v yet_o there_o be_v no_o reason_n that_o