Church Of the same opinion are other Protestants who say that the true Church of God is inuisible to men for such a Church cannot be ruled of mē or denie that anie reprobates though they be Pastors are members of the true Church For if they were Pastors of the true Church certainly they should be also members of the same and those principall And if no reprobates be Pastors of the true Church nether be any elect because those Pastors which are elect rule no other Church then that which those which are reprobate do As Saint Peter ruled no other kinde of Church then Iudas did THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely teacheth that Bishops rule that Church which Christ purchased with his blood that they edifie the bodie of Christ and that there are watch men vpon the walls of Hierusalem But Hierusalem the bodie of Christ the Church purchased with Christs blood is the true Church The same say Catholiks Protestants expressely teach that the rule of the Catholik or true Church is inuisible that she cannot be seene that noughtie prelats are not of the Catholik Church that Bishops are not pastors of the Catholik Church ART VII WHETHER PASTOVRS OF the Church be to be called Preists SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. Isaie 61. ver 6. speaking of the time of Ghospell saieth Pastours of the Church are to be called Preists And you shal be called the Preists of the Lord. To you it shal be saied The Ministers of our God And c. 66. v. 20. 21. And they shall shew forth my glorie to the Gentils And I will take of thē to be preists and leuits saieth our Lord. CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME C. Bellarm. l. 1. de Missa c. 17. S. Austin saieth that Bishops and Presbyters are properly called Preists PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Luther de Instit Ministr to 2. fol. 371. Who administer the Not to be called Preists word and Sacraments amongest people nether may nor ought to be called preists Caluin 4. Institut cap. 18. § 14. With what trust dare these sacrilegious follows call themselues preists of the liuing God Rainalds in his Conference c. 8. diuis 4. They who charge vs with falshood and corruption in that we call the Ministers of the Ghospell Elders are guiltie themselues of heresie and blasphemie in that they call them Preists Whitaker l. 9. cont Dur. sect 47. The names of Preists or Sacrificers do no way agree to the Ministers of the new testamēt but abusiuely and metonymically P. Martyr l. cont Gardiner col 1075. We call not our Ministers Preists Confessio Heluet. c. 18. We giue none of our Ministers the name of Preists THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely saieth that the Pastors of the Church shal be called Preists and that some of the Gentils shal of God be taken to be Preists The same say Catholiks Protestants expressely say that Pastors of the Church may not be called Preists that they call none of them Preists that it is sacrilege heresie and blasphemie to call them preists ART VIII WHETHER ANY CAN BE a Pastour and preach without mission or calling SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY DENIETH. Roman 10. vers 15. But how shall they preach vnlesse they None can preach without mission be sent Hebr. 5. ver 5. So Christ also did not glorifie himselfe that he might be made a highe preist Ihon 3. v. 28. A man cannot receaue any thing vnlesse it be giuen him from heauen CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY DENIE D. Stapleton in Rom. 10. v. 15. The roote of lawfull preaching is mission nether is there any lawfull power of preaching Gods worde where lawfull mission went not before PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME Art Smalcaldici pag. 353. In case of necessitie a lay man absolueth In necessitie a lay man absolueth Some may preach with out mission and becometh Pastor and Minister to an other Luther tom 2. German fol. 256. A Christian man hath so much power that not called he ought to come forth and teach in middest of Christians when he seeth the teacher there to erre Id. l. de Instit ministr f. 372. We haue shewed euidently that euerie one hath authoritie to minister the worde yea commandment if he see that there is none to teach or that they teach not aright who are The like ib. l. de Iudic. Eccles 376. de Captiuit f. 80. And Postilla in die S. Stephani f. 84. Stephen by his example giueth authoritie to euerie Christian to preach Christ in what place soeuer where they are desirous to heare Herbrand in Disp 11. Euen they who are not lawfully called may preach the word fruitfully Melancthon in disput to 4. p. 507. A lay man can absolue not onely in case of necessitie but otherwhere Iacobus Andreae in Colloq Montisbel p. 410. In case of necessitie when Ministers or other men are absent it is lawfull for a woman to comfort a sick man by preaching and absolue him of his sinnes Kemnitius also 2. port Exam. tit de Ministris p. 49. saieth that it is lawfull in case of necessitie to preach without lawfull vocation Peter Martyr in locis clas 4. c. 1. § 15. When a Church is not yet built and men are ignorant of Christian religion whosoeuer shal be there by chance who know Christ they are bound to preach him nether is ordination to be expected seing it cannot be had Beza de Notis Eccles vol. 3. Then wilt thou say shall it be lawfull for euerie one in the Church to teach No truely But where a generall disorder rageth vnder colour of order nether remedie can be expected from the authours of this euill then surely as when the cittie is on fire it is the parte of euerie good citizen out of order to bring water and cast vpon the fire so in this fire of the Church it is the duetie of euerie pious man according to his power to oppose himselfe to this euill Plessie de Eccles c. 11. We know that it is saied How shall they preach vnlesse they be sent But because when all things are done confusely and out of order we must not looke that all things may be done rightly and according to set order and forme For ether that the Church be admonished that there need reformation or that anie particular man take care of his saluation euerie Christian ought to know that he is called to that function by a generall vocation so that he burne with zeale of the glorie of God and charitie to his neighbour THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely saieth that none can preach vnlesse he be sent none can take any honour vnlesse it be giuen to him that Christ made not himselfe Preist or Pastour The same say Catholiks Protestants expressely say that one that is not called may fruitfully preach that any man may preach in case of necessitie or when there wanteth a Pastour or he erreth or when there is a generall disorder or men are desirous to heare that a lay man may absolue in case of necessitie and otherwise also
Ghospell or the new testament must haue beene tried by the ould See more art 6. CHAPTER VII OF THE PASTOVRS OF THE CHVRCH SCripture If my couuenant with the day can be made voide Pastours alwaies c. also my couuenant may be made voide with Dauid my seruant that there be not of him a sonne to reigne in his throne and Leuits and Preists my ministers Not alwaies Protestants It is false that the externall ministerie must be perpetuall The Church hath osten no man Pastour Some short time the Church may be depriued of Pastours See more art 7. Scripture Thou art Peter c. And to thee I will giue the Authoritie in the Pastours keyes of the kingdome of heauen Protestants The authoritie is not in the Prelats but in the Not in them worde the Church hath nothing but mere ministerie See more art 2. Scripture Thou art Peter c. and whatsoeuer thou shalt One pastor cā excōmunicate bind on earth it shal be bound also in heauen Protestants VVe must remember that this power of excommunicating One cannot is giuen to no one man but to the whole companie of the Presbiterie See more art 3. Scripture And he Paul walked through Syria and Silicia Pastours can make lawes confirming the Churches and commanding them to keepe the precepts of the Apostles and the Auncients Protestants The Church hath no power to make lawes See They can not more art 4. Scripture The Holie Ghost hath placed you Bishops to rule Pastors rulers of the Church Not rulers the Church of God Protestants The true nature of a ruler of the Church is in no pure man one or manie See art 5. Scripture You shal be called the preistes of the lord Pasters to be called preists Not to be so called Protestants Who administer the word and Sacraments amongst the people nether may nor ought to be called preists See more art 7. Scripture But how shall they preach vnles they be sent No preaching without mission Without mission Protestants Euen they who are not lawfully called may preach the word fruitfully Euerie Christian man hath authoritie to preach Christ in what place soeuer where they are desirous to heare See more art 8. Scripture Moises and Aaron in his preists Moises a preist No preist Protestants Moises did not exercise at all the preisthood but was onely a Prophet See more art 10. CHAPTER VIII OF THE CHVRCHE SCripture There shal be made one fould and one pastor Church but one onely Not one onely Protestants We say that there are twoe societies of men that is twoe Churches to the one belong the predestinate to the other the reprobate Christ and the things themselues teach vs that there are twoe Churches See more art 1. Scripture VVe are one bodie all that participate of one All those one bodie who participate one Sacramēt bread Protestants The godlie are no more ioyned in one bodie with Not all those the wicked then light with darkenes Christ with Belial See more art 2. Scripture The gates of hell shall not preuaile against her of Church can not faile It can faile his kingdome there shal be no end Protestants It is no meruaile though the Church be cleane fallen downe long agoe Antichrist had rooted out the Church euen from the ground Christes kingdome was cast flat downe See more art 4. Scripture You are the light of the world A cittie can not be Church can not be hidde hidde situated vpon a mountaine Protestants Often times God will haue no visible Church It can be hidde on earth The whole visible Church may faile See more art 5. Scripture Which is the Church of the liuing God the pillar Church is infallible and strenght of trueth Protestants The vniuersall Church may erre The Church Not infallible may erre The Catholik Church may erre and that most greeuously See more art 6. Scripture If he will not heare the Church let him be to thee Church simply to be heard Not simply to be heard as the Heathen and the Publican Protestants VVe must not simply receaue whatsoeuer the Church teacheth See more art 7. CHAPTER IX OF TEMPLES OR MATERIAL CHVRCHES SCripture Who Anna departed not from the temple by Churches for priuate praier fasting and praiers seruing day and right Protestants Churches are for preaching onely It is no lawfull Not for priuat praier end of Churches that the faithfull may priuatly pray in them See more art 1. Scripture Twoe Cherubins also thou shalt make of beaten Images to be set in Churches Not to be set in Churches gold on both sides of the oracle Protestants The Iewes had no manner Image nether painted not grauen in their temple God abhorreth images We must not suffer that Images be in Churches See more art 3. Scripture reporteth these words of a Heathen This Heathens thought idols to be Gods They thought not so Paule saieth that they are no Gods which be made by hands Protestants It is a lie that the Heathens did beleiue the Images of their Gods to haue beene their Gods them selues See more art 4. CHAPTER X. OF BAPTISME SCripture Vnlesse a man be borne againe of water and the Water necessarie to baptisme Not necessarie Spirit he can not enter into the kingdome of God Protestants Though water be wanting yet if the baptisme of one cannot be differred with edification I would baptize as well with anie other liquour as with water See more art 1. Scripture Going teach ye all nations baptizing them Baptisme cōmanded of Christ Not cōmanded of him c. Protestants Baptisme is of lesse importance then that the lord should haue greatly cammanded anie thing about it See more art 3. Scripture Vnlesse one be borne of water and the Holie Baptisme necessarie to saluation Not necessarie Simon Magus was baptized He was not baptized Baptisme profiteth all Not all Ghost he cannot inter into the kingdome of God Protestants Children who die before they be christened are not shut out of the kingdome of God See art 4. Scripture Then Simon Magus also himself belieued and being baptized he cleaned to Philippe Protestants That Simon Peter and Simon Magus receaued the same whole baptisme is most false See more art 5. Scripture As manie of you as haue beene baptized in Christ haue put on Christ Protestants Baptisme bringeth no commoditie to those that are not elect See more art 6. Scripture Christ loued the Church cleansing it by the lauer Baptisme purgeth sinne It purgeth not sinne of water in the worde Protestants VVho will say that we are cleansed by this water Doest thou thinke that water is the lauer of the soule No. Baptisme cannot wash away the filth of sinnes See more art 7. Scripture Be baptized and wash away thy sinnes Sinnes washed away by baptisme Not by baptisme All borne in in state of dānation Not all Protestants Paule
of Of it selfe nether good nor badde workes which of themseues are nether properly good nor badde Of this kind is fasting sobrietie and desire of keeping virginitie in those who haue the guift of continencie And c. 5. sect 39. Nether virginitie nor marriage we reckon amongst those things which simply and of theÌ„selues make vs better and more gratefull to God Daneus Contr. 5. p. 1045. Virginitie is no vertue but a thing No vertue indifferent And generally all Protestants when the Apostle calleth virginitie good in Greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 will not haue him vnderstood of a good that is honest or vertuous but onely of a good that is profitable THE CONFERENCE Scripture plainely saieth that virginitie is honest that it is a holines in bodie and soule that it is better and happier then marriage and that it is to be desired for the kingdome of heauen Catholiks say the same Protestants plainely say that virginitie is a thing indifferent is nothing not simply good not good of it nature not of it selfe a vertue not simply good not a vertue not wholy to be desired not required of God and in the religious a diuelish thing ART III. WHETHER THE STATE OF virginitie be better then the state of marriage SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. 1. Cor. 7. v. 38. He that ioyneth his virgin in matrimonie doth Virginitie better then marriage well and he that toyneth not doth better ver 40. More blessed shall she be if she so remaine CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME Councel of Trent Sess 24. Can. 10. If anie shall say that it is not better and happier to abide in virginitie or single life then to marrie be he accursed PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Whitaker ad Ration 8. Campiani Virginitie is neuer better Not better then marriage but in some sorte Marriage is often times simply better then virginitie Willet Controuers 15. quaest 5. pag. 806. Virginitie is Not more holie not a more holie and cleane thing in it selfe then marriage is before God in themselues nether is more holie then ether Confessio Witten bergeÌ„sis C. de votis We must not thinke Not more excellent that this kinde of single life is of selfe before the iudgment seat of God more excellent and more holie then marriage Luther Serm de Matrimonio to 5. f. 126. Single life in it Much more baste thou marriage Marriage a most diuine state selfe is much more baser then marriage And fol. 124. he calleth marriage a diuine life in 1. Cor. 7. f. 107. the highest religion and most spirituall state 107. truely heauenly spirituall and diuine state if it be compared with this spirituall state Againe We conclude that marriage is like gould and this spirituall state dung In Genes 2. to 6. fol. 26. To beget children is after preaching To get children is the cheifest worke of the word of God the cheifest worke And in c. 21. fol. 257. Married mens life consisteth in the highest degree of spirituall life Vrbanus Regius in locis to 1. f. 345. Preaching of the word Virginitie in it selfe baser then marriage of God maketh the state of virginitie better then marriage by reason of greater impediments which yet in it selfe is baser Bindebachius in Consensu cit p. 799. If you consider these kinds of life virginitie and marriage by themselues they are indifferent and before God nether is more holie then the other Caluin in 1. Cor. 7. v. 35. Here thou hast twoe things worth noting The one is to what end single life is to be desired to wit not for it selfe nor because it is a perfiter state In like manner Beza vpon the same place Serranus cont Hayum part 3. p. 159. If marriage be the Nothing better then mar-marriage seminarie of mankind if the ornament if the stay as all the Polititians euer taught can ther be any thing better or more excellent in life then marriage THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely saieth that virginitie is better and more happie then marriage The same say Catholiks Protestants expressâ—ly teach that virginitie is not a perfecter state theÌ„ marriage not more holie not more excellent that it is baser then marriage much baser that marriage is the highâ—â—â— religion most spirituall state and that in this life nothing is better or more excellent then marriage What religion I pray you haue these men whose cheife religion and most spirituall state is marriage and who account nothing in this life better then marriage to beget children the cheifest worke beside preaching ART IV. WHETHER GOD WOVLD haue men to liue single SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. 1. Cor. 7. v. 7. I would all men to be as my selfe Et v. 27. Art God exhorteth all to single life thou loose from a wife seeke not a wife Math. 19. v. 12 He that can take let him take Apocalips 14. v. 4. These are they which were not defiled with weomen For they are virgins These follow the lambe whether soeuer he shall goe CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME D. Stapleton in 1. Corinth 7. vers 8. The Spirit of God by the mouth of the Apostle exhorteth to constant virginitie and single life PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Luther in Disput to 1. f. 383. The word Increase and multiplie All commaÌ„ded to increase is naturally ingrafted and necessarily imposed generally vpon all that are men De votis to 2. f. 272. Plainely Christ did not counsaill virginitie but rather discouraged In 1. Cor 7. to 5. f. 105. Paul will haue vniuersally all to be married Serm. de Matrimonio S. Paul will haue all married f. 119. Increase and multiplie is not a precept but more theÌ„ a precept He is a baud that flieth marriage Epistola in Wofgangum to 7. f. 505. God pronounceth the sentence that he will God will haue none vnmarried haue none to be vnmarried but multiplie He that will liue vnmarried plainely fighteth against God To take a wife and to eate and drinke both alike are inforced by necessitie and God commandeth a like both to be done Et Epistol ad Equites Teuto 2. To marrie as necessarie as to eate or drinke Church men commanded to marrie Preists commanded to marrie Germ. Ienen fol. 214. The word of God commandeth Church men to marrie wiues Confessio Augustana c. de Coniugio Paul saieth that such a one is be chosen Bishop as is a husband Et Apologia eiusdem cap. 15. They bidde ws shew a precept which commandeth Preists to marrie as if Preists were not men Melancthon Resp ad Acta Ratisbon to 4. Paul will haue a Preist to be married Zuinglius in Paraenesi ad Heluetos to 1. f. 114. The holie Ministers commanded to marrie And Bishops Scripture is so farre from forbidding Ministers of the Church to marrie that it commandeth it more then once fol. 115. When they heare Paul in so expresse words commanding that a Bishop be married to a wife c. Bullinger in 1. Timoth.
3. A Bishop is minister of the word but he must be husband of a wife in that he is a Bishop and must commend holie marriage to others and terrifie them from fornication Caluin in 1. Cor. 7. v. 25. Seing the Scripture saieth Genes 2. that male and femall were created together it seemeth equally Single life not commended to anie and without exceptioÌ„ it calleth all to marriage at least single life is not commanded or commended to anie In 4. Instit c. 12 § 24. Paul reckoneth marriage amongst the vertues of a Bishop Et c. 13. § 3. This is indeed to tempte God to striue against nature which To striue against his flesh is to tempt God Desire of virginitie accursed of God he hath giuen and to despise his present guifts as if they belonged not to vs. Sadeel ad Artic. 53. abiurat This so great affectation of virginitie and single life which God at last did accurse was so â—suall with the Fathers as c. Zanchius in Thesibus to 8. It is against Gods commandment that a yong man who hath need of marriage should remaine vnmarried and simply that a woman should be wnmarried Whitaker Controuers 2. quaest 5. cap. 7. When Bellarmin had saied Vigilantius taught that Church men ought to be married answereth If vigilantius ment the lawfull marriage of Pastours he was in the right Tindal in Fox his Actes p. 1139. A preist must haue a wife for twoe causes The one c. THE CONFERENCE Scripture plainely saieth that God by the mouth of the Apostle would haue all men to be a he was that is vnmarried that such as were vnmarried he exhorted to remaine so that Christ exhorted all to single life who could take it that in heauen there is a speciall reward for virgins The same say Catholiks Protestants plainely say that Paul would haue all men to be married would haue a Preist or Bishop to be married that Christ terrifieth men from virginitie that God will haue no man vnmarried that he as much commandeth to marrie as to eate or drinke that to increase and multiplie is more then a precept that God hath accursed the affectation of virginitie that single life is commended to none And thus much of virginitie ART V. WHETHER FASTING BE A vertue or worshippe or seruice of God SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. Luc. 2. v. 37. Who departed not from the temple by fastings Fasting is seruice of God and praiers seruing night and daye Math. 6. ver 17. When thou dost fast anointe thy head and wash thy face that thou appeare not to men to fast but to thy Father who is in secret and thy Father who seeth in secret will Rewarded of God repay the. Math. 4. ver 15. But the dayes will come when the kingdome shal be taken away from them and then they shall fast CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME D. Stapleton in Lucae 2. vers 37. This place teacheth that fasting belongeth to the seruice of God as praiers doe PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Perkins in Cathol reform Contr. 6. pag. 132. Fasting is a Fasting of th same nature that eating is Helpeth nothing to heauen Profiteth nothing Mens fasting no better then beasts thing indifferent of the same nature with eating and drinking and of it selfe conferreth nothing to the obtayning of the kingdome of heauen no more then eating and drinking doth Humphrey ad Ration 3. Campiani p. 263. We graunt that it is true which Sanders saieth of the Iouinianists and our men That fasting or abstinence from certaine meats profit nothing Luther in Ionae 3. to 3 fol. 422. God esteemeth as much the fastings and haireclothes of beasts as of men and contrariwise What cares God for sackcloth fasting and hairecloth Caluin in Math. 16. v. 18. Fasting of it selfe is an indifferent A thing indifferent not required of God No seruice of God thing not of those kinde of things which God requireth and approueth In c. 4. ver 1. In that they perswade themselues that fasting is a meritorious worke and a parte of pietie or of Gods seruice it is a noughtie superstition In Act. 14. v. 23. Let vs not putt anie seruice of God in fasting seing that of it selfe it is nothing nor is of account with God but as it is referred to an other end In Of no moment Instit l 4. c. 12. § 16. Nether doth Luke putt anie seruice of God in fâ—sting Of it selfe it is of no moment c. 19. We must take great heed that fasting be not accounted a kinde of Gods seruice Beza in Confess c. 5. sect 40. We commend not true fasts as a kinde of Gods seruice Peter Martyr in locis loco 10 § 23. There is an other abuse No seruice of God that there be some who attribute holines to fasting as if there were anie seruice of God in it Whereas indeed fasting is onely an exercise which of it selfe hath no sanctitie Pareus in Collegio Theol. 1. disput 18. Fasting of it nature No vertue is no morall vertue For temperance is a morall vertue not because it abstaineth from meat or drinke but because it moderatly vseth meat and drinke THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely saieth that S. Anne did serue God by fasting and praier that God rewardeth those that fast that Christ will haue his to fast The same say Catholiks Protestants expressely say that fasting is no part or kinde of Gods seruice that it is an indifferent thing of the same nature that eating that it conferreth nothing to get heauen that it is nothing is onely an exercise that God maketh no more account of mens fastings then of beasts that God requireth it not nor approueth it ART VI. WHETHER FASTING BE A preseruatiue against the Diuel SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. Math. 17. v. 21. But this kind of Diuels is not cast out but Some diuels cast out by fasting by praier and fasting CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME Stapleton in Mathew 17. ver 28. Praier and fasting must be added as a most soueraigne antidote to driue away these kinde of Diuels PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Caluin in Math. 17. ver 21. cit The ridiculous Papists make No Diuels cast out by fasting fasting an antidote to driue away diuels Illyricus in Claue part 2. tractat 6. col 535 thus expoundeth the foresaied words of Scripture This kinde c. that is they cannot be cast out but by earnest praier proceding of earnest repentant and penitent hart and so he giueth no vertue to fasting THE CONFERENCE Scripture plainely saieth that certaine Diuels are not cast out but by fasting and praier The same say Catholiks Protestants plainely say that it is ridiculous to make fasting an antidote against Diuels ART VII WHETHER CHOICE OF meates be lawfull or vertuous SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. Daniel 10. v. 3. In those dayes I Daniel mourned the dayes of Daniel vsed choice of meats three weeks desiderable bread I did not eate and flesh and wine entred not into my
dead of praier to the dead of forbiddacne of marriage and other such like doctrines This consent we denie to be a note of the Church for in all these things they did dot consent with the Ancient fathers with mutuall consent Apostolicall Church Duditius in Beza epist 1. saieth thus If it be trueth which the ancient Fathers haue professed with mutuall consent that is all on the Papists side Thus they touching their dissent from the Fathers In like manner they confesse that they dissent from the Church and Councells For thus P. Martyr in 1. Cor. 3. That The Church alwaiâ—s praied for dead The ancient Church The Church at 500. also vseth to be obiected to vs. That the Church hath alwaies praied for the dead which truely I doe not denie Whitaker CoÌ„t 2. q. 5. c. 7. I answere True it is that Caluin saieth and the Centurie writers that the ancient Church erred in manie things as of limbus of free will of merit of works and the other things before rehearsed Agayne I say that the Church which was 500. or 600. years after Christ did not hould in all points the doctrine of the Apostles For she held some errors Casaubon epist ad Cardin. Perron It was a most ancient custome that in the publike praiers of the Church remembrance should be made of the The ancient Church dead and rest praied for them of God The ancient Church by this means approued her faith of the resurrection to come Zuinglius in Elencho tom 2. speaking of the ceremonies In the beginning of the Church Generall Councells of baptisme saieth We know that in the beginning of the Church these things were vsed The like they confesse touching Councells For thus Confessio Anglica art 21. Generall Councells may erre and sometimes haue erred euen in the things which belonge to the rule of pietie Vrban Regius in Interpret All Councells The ancient Councels loc to 1. It is more cleare then the light that all Councells haue pernitiously erred Caluin 4 Insit c. 9. § 10. There is some thing wanting euen in those ancient and purer Councells There was a notable example hereof in the Councell of Nice Whitaker Cont. 2. q. 7. c 7. auoucheth that the Councell of Nice and Chalcedon haue erred Nether doe Protestants onely dissent froÌ„ the vniforme consent of Fathers Councels and Church but also they make small account thereof For thus P. Martyr in loc Tit. Not Fathers euen agreing Script § 16. But at least say they then are the Fathers to be allowed when they agree amongst themselues No not then alwaies Et lib. de votis As long as we abide in the Fathers we shall alwaies remayne in the same errors Whitaker Cont. 1. q. 5. c 8. The agreing exposition of the Fathers is no rule of expouÌ„ding Not witnesses without exceptioÌ„ Scriptures Cont. 2. q. 7. c. 7. We denie not but the Fathers be witnesse of the trueth but so as they be not without exception for all haue erred l. 6. cont Dur. sect 3. The consent of Fathers is not sure and free from error Et ad Demonst 7. Sanderi Not the whole Senate of Fathers Nether will we thinke that thou hast demonstrated any thing though thou couldest bring the whole Senate of Fathers against vs. Rainolds in his Conference p. 151. Trueth is not to Not all be tried by consent of Fathers Psal 150. If not one or twoe of the Fathers but all haue thought it nor thought it onely but haue written it nor written it onely but thought it not obscurely but clearely nor seldome but often nor for a time but perpetually yet their consent were not secure And he termeth vniuersalitie antiquitie consent rotten postes Yea in his 5. Thesis he will haue the Roman Church to be no true Church because she forbiddeth the Scriptures to be expounded contrarie to that sense which our holie mother the Church doth hould or contrarie to the vniforme consent of Fathers By which forbiddance saieth he are often reiected those senses which the spirit by the tenor of the words and sentences doth teach to be the meaning of the holie text MortoÌ„ in Apol. part 1. l. 1. c. 69. Sometimes neglecting the persons of the Fathers it is most safe to fech the prime antiquitie out of the Apostolicall writings Which is saieth he the Protest defense to reiect the Fathers prore and puppe of the Protestants defense Caluin 4. Instit c. 9. § 12. Let no names of CouÌ„cells of Pastours of Bishops hinder vs that we trie not all the spirits of them all with the square of Gods word for to finde whether they be of God Daneus CoÌ„tr. p. 289. Touching the saying of the Fathers this is our breif answere to them all We regard not what the Fathers haue saied but how Saying of Fathers not reguarded truely Et Cont. 5. p. 698. We must not looke what the Fathers haue written but what they should haue writteÌ„ Vorstius in Antib p. 395. The Protestants doe not thinke that they ought much to care what the ancient Fathers haue thought or written of this Not to be cared for matter Pareus l. 5. de Iust c. 5. I say that Scripture is to be expouÌ„ded by Scripture not by Fathers Et l. 2. de Grat. c. 14. Though all the Fathers agreed well yet were it weake Reineccius to 1. Arm. Not all fathers together c. 9 WheÌ„ all Doctors of the Church with a common consent doe teach some thing to come from Apostolicall tradition is that to be beleiued to be Apostolicall tradition No. Gerlachius disp 22. de Eccles The Fathers haue straied from the path of trueth not in these onely wherein they disagree with themselues and with others but in those also which they haue vniformely deliuered Celius Secundus de Amplit regni Dei lib. 1. Should then the Their authoritie nothing at all authoritie of so manie ancient Fathers the consent of ages auaile nothings Nothing at all Polanus in thes part 3. p. 546. We cite them â—estimonies of Fathers â—specially when we handle points of religion controuerted with Papists not for our sake but for Papists that we may refute Papists by the Fathers whome they haue Fathers cited as Heathens made their iudges as in ould time the Fathers refuted the HeatheÌ„ by the testimonies of the Sybills of Poets Philosophers orators and Heathen Historians As therefore the Fathers vsed the testimonies of Heathens against HeatheÌ„s So we produce the testimonies of Fathers against Papists Muscul in loc tit de Scrip. As for me I require not the testimonies of Fathers for to giue authoritie to Canonicall Scripture and to make distinction betwene it and the Fathers writings contenting my selfe with the authoritie and canon of the Scripture it selfe But because our aduersaries endeauour to trouble the trueth by pretext of Fathers I well alledge them where they are against their endeauours but when they cite any thing
so manifest that much of their doctrine was in ould time condemned of the Fathers for heresie as themselues confesse it For touching the heresies of Aërius thus writeth Bucan Instit loc 42. Did the Fathers rightly reckon the opinion Protest confesse they hould the heresies Of Aerius of Aërius who made no distinction betwene a Bishop and a Preist amongst heresies No more surely then these other his opinions 1. That we ought not to make praiers or offerings for the dead 2. That dead Saints are not to be praied vnto 3. That there ought not to be anie set dayes of fasting Beza respons ad Serau c. 32. Surely Serauia if thou doest thinke Aërius to haue beene an Heretike in those three former points all the reformed Churches this day are Heretiks to thee as well as they are to the Papists Vorstius in Antibel p. 201. Aërius was vniustly condemned of heresie by the Fathers Angelocrator l. 7. de chronol The opinions of Aërius a most learned man that he reiected praier for dead and set fast and made a Preist equall to a Bishop were to be borne withall vnlesse with Aërius he had impugned the Trinitie Whitaker Cont. 2. q. 5. cap. 7. Epiphanius indeed and Austin after him put Aërius amongst Heretiks But if he held nothing but these points he was no Hereike Cartwright Replica 2. p. 618. If it must preuaile against me that Aerius an Heretiks would make a Bishop and Priest all one whome Epiphanius a Catholike thought to be distinct and different by the word of God or that Austin reckoned it amongst the heresies of of Aërius by this way will rise a great preiudice to the trueth wherewith we beleiue that we ought not to pray for the dead nor offer sacrifice for them For Epiphanius to 1. haer 7. calleth this an heresie of Aërius and of the same iudgement is Austin haer 51. which notwithstanding is orthodox doctrine Gratianus Antiiesuita part 1. pagin 528. Surely if one take away those things which Aërius is rather feigned then proued to haue held with the AriaÌ„s about the diuinitie of Christ there wil be nothing which may be iustly and deseruedly reprehended in his doctrine Daneus in libr. Augustini de Haeres capit 53. The Aërians were quickly supprest because they were oppugned by the common consent of all Bishops 1. Aërius taught that a Preist did not differ from a Bishop in order and degree Which doctrine I see not why it should be condemned 2. That praiers are not to be made for the dead because they caÌ„not be holpen by such suffrages of ours Why Christians should not admit this I see not 3. That fasts are not be appointed vpon certaine set and solemne dayes yearely as was the fast of lent for that all this kind of aniuersarie fasts is superstitious and not to be vsed of Christians Which surely is true 4. That there is no pascha among ChristiaÌ„s which is to be kept and celebrated Nether ought this opinion of the Aërians to be condemned because it is true Wherefore we haue not noted these men among Heretiks Touching the heresies of Iouinian thus writeth the Of Iouinian same Daneus l. cit c. 82. Iouinian did equall mariage with single life and virginitie for that both of theÌ„ are of theÌ„selues indiffâ—eÌ„t and no parte of Gods true worship as also because c. This why it should be erroneus nether Hierome proueth nor any other of the Fathers hath proued Whitaker loc cit IouiniaÌ„ thought that the choice of meates and fasting was not meritorious I answere Is the choice of meates meritorious Follie. To fast for this end to merit eternall life is to abuse fasting We willingly agree with IouiniaÌ„ in this point IouiniaÌ„ taught that mariage was equall to virginitie in dignitie and merit So also Paul so Christ so we all teach Indeed Hierome inuetheth against Iouinian for this cause HuÌ„fre ad Rat. 3. Camp We grant it is true which Sanders saieth of the Iouinians and Protestants That fasting or abstinence froÌ„ some certaine meats profiteth nothing Touching the heresies of Vigilantius thus Humfre loc cit Of Vigilantius He taught that the reliks of Saints are not to be worshiped And we also Vigilantius taught that there was no need to light torches or to wachat the sepulchres of Martyres And why should not we teach the same and much rather He taught that Saints are not to be worshipped nor that men ought superstitiously to runne to their monuments We say the same Vorstius in Antibel p. 162. The heresies alledged of Bellarmin are indeed no heresies for example which he alledgeth out of Hierome touching Iouinian and Vigilantius and out of Epiphanius touching Aerius and some few others Angelocrator loc cit Vigilantius a Frenchman but a most learned Prelat in Spaine denieth that Saints are to be reuerenced and would haue riches to be preferred before pouertie Against him Hierome wrote Beza in 2. part resp ad Acta Montisb Hierome defending an ill cause that is inuocation of Saints against Vigilantius c. Luther in Postilla Exalt Sanctae Crucis Vigilantius wrote of this matter worshippe of reliks against whome Hierome earnestly opposed himselfe which I wish had not beene done and if Vigilantius his booke were extant as Hieroms is I beleiue Vigilantius wrote more Christianely of this matter then Hierome Serranus cont Hayum part 3. The discreet Reader seeth that Hierome in that booke against Vigilantius passeth not onely the boundes of modestie but also of trueth Iuel in DefeÌ„s Apol. part 1. c. 2. sect 3. Hierome reproueth Vigilantius that he reprehended wakes inuocation of Saints worshippe of relikes lights and other such things Of Origen As for the heresies of Origen thus writeth Spalatensis l. 5. de Repub. c. 6. n. 44. Origen was shroudly taxed of Theophilus because he held that the Sacraments did not worke sanctification by the worke as I may so speake wrought but onely by the worke of the worker and that God doth not vse materiall and insensible creatures to importe sanctification to men But Theophilus whilest he doth reproue this opinion or error of Origen is all c. And yet herein Protestants teach as Origen did as appeareth by what hath beene related l. 1. cap. 10. artic 7. Finally Daneus Contr. 4. pag. 770. confesseth to agree Of MessaliaÌ„s and NouatiaÌ„s with the Messalians that habituall concupiscence in the iust is sinne and with Nouatians that Christians are not to be anointed Thou seest Reader that Protestants plainely confesse that they defend the condemned doctrine of Aërius Iouinian Vigilantius Origen Messalians Nouatians and that S. Austin S. Hierome S. Epiphanians Fathers Bishops with common consent of all did coÌ„demne their doctrines for heresies and them for heretiks Whome I aduise to consider well those words of Beza written of a late Heretik epist 81. He plainely and without dissimulation houldeth and accounteth Origen Aërius Heluidius c. not for Heretiks but for