Selected quad for the lemma: word_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
word_n	bishop_n	call_v	presbyter_n	3,889	5	10.6948	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A06199	Cum bono Deo Raine from the clouds, vpon a choicke angel: or, A returned answere, to that common quæritur of our adversaries, VVhere was your church before Luther? Digested into several meditations, according to the difference of points. Extorted off the author, for stilling the vncessant, and no lesse clamorous coassation of some patmicke frogges, against the lawfulness of our calling.	Logie, Andrew.	1624 (1624)	STC 16694; ESTC S108810	39,602	80

and Tyrannie of the Romane Church or in the Romane Church whereas the ground it selfe or the secession is justlie denyable Now non entis nulla sunt accidentia XIIII MELETEMA WHereas our Adversaries suffer not that to bee called Rebaptization whilst they superadde de suo their toyish assumentes to that Baptisme conferred by our men as hereby acknowledging the Baptisme in it selfe to be valide and lawfull quòd viz. simus in ministerio si non ministri as the matter and quaestion was cleared and decided about BARBARIUS PHILIPPUS his acts of Praetorship that they were to bee holden rata grata and not to bee rescinded quòd fuerit in praetura licet non praetor nay and as the case I hope holdeth de Ioanna Papista who was in Papatu though not Papa and semblablie whilst it falleth out that an Hereticke nay a Magitian or Necromancier possesseth the Chaire which cases haue proven possible as the Councels can beare vs heere record Now that I may reason hence by way of Analogie vsing the lyke libertie Why may they not suffer the vocation and ordination obtaining with vs goe for current Cum nostri ordinatores fuerint saltem in ministerio si non ministri Or I pray you is Ordination of greater weight and importance than Baptisme Or may Baptisme bee conferred and administred by anie not instructed with commission May these but suffer the least divorce which CHRIST Himselfe hath thus coupled MATTHEW the last Ite Do●●te Baptizate Certes mee thinkes it strange how our Adversaries so farre foorth miscarrie heere as to permit to Laickes the administration of this blessed Sacrament yea farther acknowledge it lawfull whilst conferred but in sporte and merriment and that not in the ordinarie element thereof appointed by CHRIST but in sand yea and but by Children Truelie horret animus yea tremunt artus whilst I but shew quàm impiè hîc ludant in re tam seria To make collection to the errande in hande If our men may baptize Or if the Baptisme conferred by them bee valide and effectuall then they may teach haue the warrand of Ite are instructed with commission and so from the first to the last viget inter nostros vocatio vel ipsis hic Adversariis nobis suffragantibus astipulantibus c. XV. MELETEMA IN that Vocation or Calling obtayning with our Adversaries and which our men brought from thence with them giving wee had our Calling of them these three acts are distinctlie to bee considered GODS owne act penes quem summum vocandi jus ac mittendi imperium and from whome is that inward Calling next The Church her act from which as GODS Instrument in this worke is that externall or outward Calling The third is of the Church popishlie affected or of the Pope his act and of his Bond-slaues from whence is vitium Vocationis or that faultinesse and vitiositie in the Calling Nowe this last cannot 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or make devoyde and of null effect and force the two 〈◊〉 so that there remayneth still a Calling amongst our Adversaries though well vitious Thus whereas our men came as it were foorth from amongst them they but renounced this latter parte constantlie retayning quod DEI erat quod Ecclesiae It is to bee adverted heere That wee traduce not even those Ordinations obtayning to daye with our Adversaries pro nullis sed pro vitiosis as wee acknowledge a Church with them whiles the matrimoniall Tables are not rent or repeated nor a Bill of divorce given ubi libellus repudii as it fared with the adulterous ISRAELITES they continued GODS people even after their manie adulteries and spirituall whoredomes I say that wee acknowledge their Church as veram Ecclesiam though not veracem as a true Church in regard of a Physicall veritie though not of an Ethicall veracitie Alwayes it is to bee considered headilie howe the case heere altereth whilst their ordinations are not so much as warrandable by their owne Canons as whereas they deferred orders to Idiots and Children for heere non habemus hujusinodi ordinationes pro vitiosis sed pro nullis for the lawfulnesse of the Cheirothesie dependeth from the lawfulnesse of the praeceeding Cheirotonie and not on the contrarie this from that other the signe beeing suspended from the matter and not the matter from the signe XVI MELETEMA WHere-as there concurre and occurre some three actes even in that Vocation obtayning with our Adversaries and so in that Calling which our first men brought from thence so the concurrence and occurrence of the same are necessarie to a lawfull deposition for the same must occurre and concurre to a lawfull destitution which to the prior institution For exemple Where Kingdomes come by election the same consentes are required to a Kings destitutione which to his prior institution in Regem and else to meddle with the sacred person of a King is to touch and meddle with the LORDS anoynted yea and to faile and fault even against the Law of Nations These are hitherto to meete heere with our Adversaries excepting that wee haue losed by excommunication what right wee had from amongst them formerlie by anie vocation Certes the Pope heere cannot 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or make of no force neither quod DEI est nor yet quod Ecclesiae Nay in common and promiscuous marriages multa quae impediunt contrahendum non dirimunt contractum Againe without the concurrence and occurrence of the whole actes in the destitution which occurred and concurred to the prior institution the proceedure is well summarie and vnformall as I hope is cleare from the instanced exemple I leaue to speake of the ground of the excommunication according wherevnto judgement must bee given of the excommunication it selfe where it feareth mee the matter hath proceeded clave errante As lykewyse quod non statim rumpatur interius illud spiritus coagulum vbi rumpitur exterius illud vinculum giving that a sister-Church to wit the Romane Church could haue lawfullie sentenced vs where-about sub judice lis est XVII MELETEMA WHereas out of the common Colledge of Presbyters or Elders one began to bee praefected over the rest and bee singularlie so called by the name of BISHOP I dispute not heere whether this Bee ju ris divini or positivi 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or the act of Ordination or matter it selfe remained common solâ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or ritu ordinandi manente penes Episcopum singulariter the sole Rite or externall signe of ordination being appropriated to the BISHOP singularlie But no not even then whereas this custome first obtained and was in its greatest vigour 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was the Rite or the externall signe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 scilicet solelie proper to the Bishops so called in opposition as that it was not administred and peracted by Presbyters as the Fathers heere Sainct AMBROSE and AUGUSTINE beare vs recorde and ALEXANDRIA and AEGYPT can beare witnesse where

consignabant or consecrabant Presbyteri for the one vseth the word Consignandi as the other Consecrandi Nay seeing it cannot bee denyed actum ordinandi rem ipsam scilicet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is the greater part mansisse penes Presbyteros what letteth why that which is but the lesser part the signe or the bare and naked Rite may not remaine common to Presbyters with Bishops so called antitheticallie for cui competit quod majus est eidem adscribi nil vetat quod minus est modo sint ejusdem generis but the gendre is still kept c. It standeth vs vpon yet a little to eye more nearlie into this matter because of our Adversaries Sainct CHRYSOSTOME posing the quaestion cur Apost ad Philip. transeat ab Episcopat●● ad Diaconatum nullo relicto loco intermedio 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Presbyterorum thus answereth the matter Quod 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that the order is but one and the same and straight subjoyneth quòd eadem conveniant Presbyteris quae Episcopis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sayech hee to the one which to the other nay which is yet farther hee speaketh more peremptorilie to the matter and sayth positiuelie that the Bishops heerein wrong the Presbyters That they appropriate this singularlie to themselues 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I know this place to bee wrested to the contrarie to the establishment of this their praerogatiue as if the same were the force of the word heere in composition which it carrieth whilst resolved in its pure simples whereas 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cum Chrysostomo beareth this other signification which is quite contrarie And lest this might seeme but an ydle Grammatication not having anie foundation in the trueth I pray you obserue with mee the vse of this word in sacred Scripture as I. Thess Chap. 4. Vers 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ne quis opprimat aut circumveniat fratrem suum in negotio c. I forbeare heere to meddle with that idle difference so hotlie and contentiouslie tossed and agitated amongst vs to day Whether a Bishop bee greater than a Presbyter Institutione Dominica or dispositione Ecclesiastica whereas it were farre safer privatas has simultates deponere quò melius reipub Christianae in communi possemus consulere yea and where frustra contentiosum funem ducimus as who may agree in the matter without great prejudice to the trueth scilicet that the order is but one and the same admitting alwayes a disparitie or difference of degree 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and this not absolute or simple but relatiue or respectiue ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the different measure of graces and gifts in the LORDS worke-men and sutablie to CHRISTS institution who gaue some to bee Apostles and some Evangelists and so foorth Nay according to that seeming at least subinsinuated and implyed difference or disparitie amongst the Apostles where some are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 besides some other names to this same purpose importing at least bewraying a distinction But to the matter againe vnde digressi you see howe Sainct HIEROME prooveth this power of Ordination to bee common to Presbyters with Bishops by an argument taken from the more to the lesse Quod qui possunt corpus CHRISTI conficere possint Presbyterum creare except forsooth it bee more to consigne a Presbyter than to create our owne Creator To this same sense and purpose I would pose our Adversaries heere a little possuntne Presbyteri so called antitheticallie or in opposition Christianum efficere or baptizare I take these for one ex bypothesi ad bominem for our Adversaries holde and maintaine quod per Baptismum character indelebilis imprimatur That by Baptisme an indelible character is imprinted Now there is none who can deny but that this latter may bee adscrybed to anie Gregarie Presbyter Ergo the first may bee saide to bee no lesse competent vnto him As to those places of the Apostle where this seemeth singularlie to bee adscrybed vnto one they are to bee taken communiter or in common to bee vnderstood for non statim de caeteris negatur quod de uno praedicatur yea heerefore what the Apostle seemed singularlie to haue taken and acclaymed vnto himselfe in the one place 2. Timoth. Chap. 1. Vers 6 hee showeth plainlie ao haue bene common to the whole Eldership 1. Timoth. Chap. 4. Vers 14. I feare to wade anie farther in this point for non nise caute incedendum per ignes suppositos cineri doloso adeoque offendicula vel in ipsis picturis nudis tollenda And yet I neede not feare much the incurring heere the offence of anie ut qui Episcoporum axioma ne vel minimum hîc eam imminutum so farre foorth as I can trace anie light going before mee for warrand and appuy to my conscience for as to that Primacie of order without power whether absolute or by delegation which may suffer vpon abuse repetition by the partie delegating I cannot so much as by dreame conceiue thereof for albeit all bee called to one and the same Ministrie it followeth not straight quod simil quisque vocetur ad parem in ministerio gradum more than in the Colledge of Iustice all are of alyke power and dignitie in place nor yet of that Orbiculare praesidence falselie fathered vpon Sainct AMBROSE vpon a wyde misinterpretation and mistaking of his mynde cum varii sint modi recedendi as also that so I could not see howe the first Presbyter could bee called by the name of Bishop singularlie whereas in a circle there is nothing first or last nisi recurras ad puncta imaginaria But how-so-ever the matter goe this must bee given to the praesent necessitie because of our Adversaries excepting heere against the lawfulnesse of that by-gone Ministrie with vs these diverse yeares heere-to-fore quod nostri destituti fuerint 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Episcopali You see that this cannot evacuate or but the least enervate our Calling both these beeing but one the word beeing taken ex usu Scripturae where wee see the one subjoyned to the other exegeticallie as Acts Chap. 20. Vers 28. The Elders of the Church of EPHESUS accersed or sent for to MILETVM are exhorted to take heede to themselues and to their Flockes over the which the holie Ghost praefecit cos Episcopos had made them Over-seers As lykewyse wee see th'Apostle to passe straight frō the Name to the Office which would argue a communion in the one as in the other nay wee see the Apostle to require the same thing in a Presbyter which in a Bishop which subinferreth a necessarie competencie of the same in common to both As last wee see the Apostle Sainct PETER himselfe synpresbyterum sese indigetare But besides this that both these are but one and the same the wordes beeing taken exusu Scripturae true is it not that all our first men were devoyde of this sorte of