alleageth the wordes of S. Gregorie Iewell Ecce Petrus claues regni coelorum accepit potestas ei ligandi soluendique tribuitur Cura ei totius Ecclesiae principatus committitur Beholde Peter receiueth the kayes of the kingdome of heauen To him is geuen power bothe to binde and to loose The charge and chiefe rule of the Church is committed to him Here is an other notable and exceding legerdemain of M. Iewell He hath left out in his English the worde Totius VVhole where he should haue saied the charge and Chiefe rule of the VVhole Church he turneth it of the Churche and leaueth out VVhole O M. Iewel may we not most iustly and truly turne ouer to you your owne wordes bothe that whiche go before and these which folowe now If S. Gregorie were now aliue he would charge M. Iewell with open iniurie not only for altering his whole meaning but also for mangling and maiming his very wordes For in taking away the worde VVhole from the Church you haue maimed his wordes and altered his sence Which was that to Peter the Charge and chiefe rule Totius Ecclesiae of the whole Churche was committed by Christ him selfe But now let vs heare forthe your wordes Iewell Thus farre Gregory saieth M. Harding And why no Farther was he stayed with the Choynecough and forced to breake of his tale in the middest But marke well gentle Reader and thou shalt see S. Gregory set to Schole and kept in awe and not suffred to vtter one word more then M. Harding will geue him leaue StapletoÌ„ Mutato nomine de te fabula narratur Chaunge the name and all ths tale is tolde of you M. Iewell For when you Englishing the wordes of S. Gregorie saied the charge of the Church for the charge of the VVhole churâ—h was committed to Peter when you coulde not coughe out that worde VVhole were you stayed with the Choynecough M. Iewell and forced to breake of that worde in the middest Haue we not sene S. Gregory set to Schole by M. Iewell kepte in awe by M. Iewell and not suffred to vtter one worde more then M. Iewell would geue him leaue S. Gregory would fayne haue saied in English the whole Churche as he saied in Latin Totius Ecclesiae but M. Iewell would not geue him leaue to saie so much Thus M. Iewell you haue tolde a good tale for your selfe Now let vs see how you haue tolde it for D. Harding It foloweth in your text Iewell The nexte wordes that immediatly folowe in the same sentence are these Tamen Petrus vniuersalis Apostoâ—us non voâ—atur Yet Peter is not called the vniuersal Apostle StapletoÌ„ It is true M. Iewell They folowe in dede And they are left out by D. Harding What of that Is not the sentence full ended before Is not the Supreme authorite of Peter fully auouched before Do these wordes any thinge derogat from that Supreme Authorite If they do not how is S. Gregory either maimed or maÌ„gled when his whole sence and wordes are fully reported and nothinge concealed that might alter weaken or diminish the same If they doe then by like you will shew it Let vs see how you folowe the matter Iewell M Harding saieth The Bishop of Rome was called the vniuersall bisshop StapletoÌ„ Vntruthe againe M. Iewell D. Harding in this place saieth no suche thinge You euer shoote at a wronge marke Iewell But S. Gregorye euen in the selfe same sentence that M. Harding hath here so hastely broken of saieth Peter him selfe being the Apostle of Christ yet was not called the vniuersall Apostle StapletoÌ„ This dothe not derogate from the Power before confessed in Peter but from the Name which is not the quaestion at this present Iewell And woulde M. Harding haue the worlde beleue that the Popes power is greater and more vniuersall then S. Peters StapletoÌ„ Lo howe you runne from the Name to the thinge from the Calling to the power S. Gregorye confesseth the Power but denieth that Name You bicause he denieth the Name would haue him to denie the Power S. Gregorye confesseth the one and proueth it by Scripture but yet denieth the other You bicause he denieth one would force him to denie bothe Thus M. Iewell not D. Harding altereth and mangleth S. Gregory We will not haue the worlde to beleue that the Popes power is greater then S. Peters but that the Pope being successour of Peter hath the same power which Christ gaue to Peter and not only to Peter but to his successours as we haue heard Chrisostom expressely saie These wordes M. Harding thought good to nippe of in the middes Such is his dealing in the allegation of the Auncient Fathers If I liste to vse his owne termes I might well call this Foysting or Cogging or I know not what Certainely the holye Fathers in the Councell off Constantinople saie thus It is not meete for Catholike men thus to choppe and to pare the sayinges of the holy Fathers It is rather the very property of heretikes You teache vs still M. Iewell howe to answere your owne demeanour This worde Whole wherein the effect of S. Gregories meaning stode M. Iewell thought good to nippe of in the middes Such is the dealing of M. Iewell in the allegation of the Auncient Fathers So he corrupted before Clemens Alexandrinus S. Ambrose Seuerus Sulpitius S. Hierom and others If I liste to vse M. Iewelles termes I might saye he had the Choynecough c. Certainly the holy Fathers in the Councell of Constantinople saie thus It is not mete for Catholike men thus to choppe and to pare the sayinges of the holy Fathers It is rather the very property of heretikes Exore tuo te iudico serue nequam As for the sentence which M. Iewell chargeth D. Harding to haue nipped of in the middes neither was it in the middes but a sentence folowing neither did the omitting thereof any thinge derogat from the meaning of S. Gregory M. Iewell therefore hath talked hetherto against him selfe pleasantly and largely but to the matter he hath yet saied nothinge Neither doth he say any thinge in many wordes after He imagineth D. Harding to obiect that S. Gregory though he blamed the name of vniuersall B. in Iohn of Constantinople yet he claimed the same to him selfe as a title only belonging to the See of Rome Hereupon he heapeth vp a Mayn number of sayinges of S. Gregory against the title of Vniuersall bishop as well in him selfe as in any other All that is to no purpose For it is not here defended by D. Harding And it is not in this place at all disputed of nor at al in any other place vpholded in that sence as S. Gregory blameth it It is neither required nor vsed of any Pope Therfore M. Iewell I may well call your labour therein Vanitas Vanitatum For it is a great token of idlenesse to be so earnest and so copious in disprouing that thinge that
is saide Beholde Sathan hath desired to sifte you as it were wheate and I haue praied for thee Peter that thy faithe faile not And thou being once conuerted strengthen thy brethern To him it is saide Thou arte Peter and vpon this Rocke I will builde my Church and the gates of hell shall nor preuaile against it To thee I will geue the kaies of the kingdome of heauen c. Beholde he receiueth the keyes of the heauenly kingdome the power of binding and loosing is geuen vnto him The charge of the whole Churche and principalite is committed to him Yet Peter is not called the Vniuersall Apostle Thus farre Gregory In whose wordes I beseche thee gentle Reader consider thre thinges First that the Charge of the VVhole Church and Principalite thereof is committed vnto Peter Secondarely that the Commission of that charge was made by our lorde and Sauiour him selfe to Peter by name and that in three seuerall times in the gospell In S. Matthew at his Confession of Christ. Before Christes passion when the Apostles were in most daunger to falle and after Christes passion for full confirmation of all that went before Last of all that not withstanding all that preemineÌ„ce of Peter notwithstanding the Charge that he had of the VVhole Church not withstanding he was Prince of all the Apostles and had the Principalite of the whole Churche committed vnto him notwithstanding I saye all this yet by the name of an Vniuersall Apostle he was not called Touching the first point note the matter and pithe of this Article to be confessed which is the chefe gouuernement of Christes flocke in the Bishop of Rome For as Peter was Bishop of Rome as the Churche to him committed endureth for euer as that Authorite was not geuen for Peter only so are the Bishops of Rome his successours so doth that commission endure for euer and so doth that Authorite take place force and effect for all the Church of Christ from that time forewarde for euermore Therefore Chrisostom saieth expressely that Christ did shead his bloud vt pecudes eas acquireret quarum curam tum Petro tum Petri successoribus committâ—bat to winne those shepe the charge of whom he did committe bothe to Peter and to the successours of Peter Of the which charge in an other place he saieth Ecclesiae Primatum gubernationemque Petro per vniuersum mundum tradidit that Christ deliuered to Peter the Primacy and gouernement of the Church throughout the whole worlde In which wordes we see M. Iewell the chiefe gouuernement in Christes flocke to be confessed in Peter the Bishop of Rome and in his Successours Touching the seconde point that this chiefe gouuernemeÌ„t so coÌ„fessed is grounded vpon the Scriptures and Authorite of our Sauiour him selfe For S. Gregory after he had affirmed this chiefe gouuernement in Peter he added the reason thereof and saied Ipsi quippe dicitur For to him it is saied Fede my shepe Lo vpon this Commission of Christe geuen in holy Scripture to Peter Only Gregory groundeth the Authorite of Peter So doth also Chrysostom in the place aboue alleaged Touching the last pointe marke I beseche thee good Reader diligently that though such principall Authorite ouer the whole Churche be graunted in Peter yet he is not foâ— all that called an Vniuersall Apostle The Power is confessed the Name or Title is denied Right so of any Bishop of Rome euer sence Peter that title or name of Vniuersal Bishop was neither desired nor vsurped And yet the Authorite notwithstanding hath bene bothe confessed and practised Neuer Pope more practised this vniuersall Authorite then Gregory him selfe His writinges decrees and Epistles yet extant doe most euidently declare it Yet no man euer more abhorred the name then he M. Iewell in all this Article hath not shewed One Pope that euer called or wrote him selfe Vniuersall Bishop It is therefore a great vanitie and but a point of a coÌ„tentious sprit in M. Iewell to crie and call vpon the name of Vniuersall Bishop in the Pope the power and Authorite vniuersall being confessed the name also by the Pope him selfe neither desired neither vsurped For as S. Augustin most truly telleth you M. Iewel Quid est contentiosius quà m vbi de re constat certare de nomine VVhat is more Contentious then to striue vpon the name when the thinge is coÌ„fessed Let vs see therefore what you answer to this place of S. Gregory alleaged by D. Harding You saie Iewell If S. Gregorie were now aliue he would charge M. Harding with open iniurie not only for altering his whole meaning but also for mangling and maiming his very wordes StapletoÌ„ Here be two great faultes in dede M. Iewell First to alter the meaning of S. Gregory then to mangle and maime his wordes But how proue you these two faultes to haue ben committed Let vs see You folowe and saie Iewell M. Harding to proue that the Bishop of Rome was called the vniuersall Bishop alleageth these wordes of S. Gregorie StapletoÌ„ Vntruthe M. Iewell D. Harding doth not alleage them therefore You belie him impudently He saieth in the very beginning of this Article Harding By what name so euer the Bishop of Rome was called c. this is cleare his Primacy and Supreme power is confessed VVich thinge being so whether then he were called by ether of these names he meaneth of the Vniuersall Bishop or Head of the Church or no it is not of great importance And yet for the one of them he meaneth the name of Vniuersal Bishop somewhat and for the other of head of the Church an infinit nuÌ„bre of good authorites may be alleaged But thereof Hereafter Harken M. Iewell Of these Names D. Harding saieth he will speake Herafter What then will he proue now at this present He telleth you Now Concerning the chiefe point of this Article which is the Primacie of the Pope Peters successour First it hath bene sett vp and ordained by God This this M. Iewell is the thinge that D. Hardinge first will proue For this matter he alleaged before Anacletus and now he alleageth Gregory For this point I saie to proue that the Popes supremacy was ordained by God Gregory is alleaged And we haue heard Gregory to proue it in Peter whose successour the Pope is by no lesse then three seuerall authorites of holy Scripture Here therefore I beseche thee gentle Reader consider and marke the shamelesse impudencie of M. Iewell VVhich not being able to answer to the Matter it selfe of the Popes supreme Authorite telleth thee that these wordes were alleaged to proue the Name and title He deceiueth thee he mocketh thee he abuseth thy patience gentle Reader He turneth thy minde away form the Matter to make thee beholde only the Name For thou shallt see that vpon this Name and against this Name he driueth all his talke that foloweth vtterly beside the Purpose and quite out of the Matter For now he
receiue of the bishops or of the Priest the holy Communion Stapleton This proueth that when the Deacons receiued in such order they should receiue it It doth not proue that at euery Ministration they were bounde to receiue Againe the decree speaketh of bishops and of their Celebrating ChrysostoÌ„ now was no bishop Iewell Likewise the Councell of Carthage Let the Deacons receiue the Communion in order after the Priestes either the bishop or the Priest ministring it Stapleton Likewise we answer as before They were not commaunded at euery Ministration to receiue c. Iewell So the Councel of Laodicea It is lawfull only for the Priestes of the Church to enter in to the place where the Aulâ—ar stanâ—eth and there to CoÌ„municate So the Councel of Toledo Let the Priestes and Deacons communicate before the Aultar the Clerkes in the Quiere and the people without the Quieâ—e StapletoÌ„ To these I answer as before It is an order howe it is no coÌ„maundement when and how often they should receiue Iewell Nicolaus Cusanus hath these wordes This thinge is specially to be noted that the Priest did neuer celebrat without a Deacon And that in euery Masse the Deacon receiued the Sacrament in the kinde of Bread at the Priestes hande and the Priest the Cuppe at the Deacons hande Yea forsothe they did so as he saieth but in the Apostles time only and certain yeares after But what nedeth much proofe in a case that is so plaine Chrysostom him selfe foloweth the same order After that the Priestes haue receiued saieth he the Archedeacon commaundeth the Deacons to come fortâ—e and they so coming receiue as the Priestes did before Stapleton This proueth they did so in certain solemne and principall feastes But that they did so allwaies euery daye or Sondaye and that of bounded duty whereby only it should be impossible that Chrysostom should communicat alone that it proueth not nor saieth no such thinge Iewell Now let M. Harding iudge vprightly whether these shiftes be so poore as he woulde make them Stapleton Now let not only M. Harding but all the worlde iudge vprightly whether these be not not onely Poore but very Beggarly and moste Miserable Shiftes and suche as proue no deale at all that Chrysostome coulde in no wyse Communicate alone and therfore did not Communicat alone Whiche is the Purpose wherefore all these Allegations are brought M. Iewell perceauing very well that for all his former Allegations he could not proue the Clergy bounde to the daily coÌ„municating nowe he goeth aboute to proue it in the People And that therefore Chrysostom must nedes haue some to coÌ„municat with him yea though he saied him selfe he had not one These are his wordes Iewell Chrysostome in diuers places Semeth to diuide the whole multitude into three sortes whereof some were Poenitent some Negligent and some Deuoute Stapleton We see presently all this is but a bare Gheasse by the very wordes off M. Iewell Semeth to diuide But let vs heare forthe Iewell The Penitent were commaunded awaye and might not Communicate The negligent sometyme departed off them selues and woulde not Communicate The deuoute remained and receaued togeather Howe proueth M. Iewell this later pointe Yow shall heare Iewell Nowe that the deuoute remained stil with Chrysostome the whole time of the holy Mysteries it is plaine by the verye same place that M. Harding here alleageth for his purpose Stapleton Yea But you must proue that those deuoute not only Remained still but also Receiued with Chrysostom How proue you that You go forth and alleage your place Iewell For thus Chrysostome saieth vnto the people Thou art come into the Church and hast songe praises vnto God with the rest and hast confessed thy selfe to be one of the worthy in that thou departedest not foorth with the vnworthy By these wordes he sheweth that some were worthy and some vnworthy That the vnworthy departed and the worthy remained Stapleton Yea M. Iewell But here is not One Worde that those Worthy whiche Remained did Receiue That is but youre Gheasse Neither yet is there any worde that those whiche Remained were all Deuoute For in dede withoute Gheasse or ayme those vnworthy which departed were the penitents only whiche were commaunded to departe the Church with the Catechumins or Nouices in the faith straight after the Sermon And those which remayned were all the reste of the people as well Deuoute as not Deuoute Agayne though they were all Deuoute yet will it not folowe that they all Receiued For by S. Augustins iudgement a man maye bothe Receiue and Refraine from Receiuing with Deuotion The one he compareth to Zachaeus which gladly and hastely receiued Christ in to his house The other to the Centurion whiche with no lesse loue of Christ saied yet Lorde I am not worthy that thou shouldest entre vnder my â—oufe Yea Chrysostom in that place After he had saied in a greate Vehemency who so doth not Communicat is one of the poenitents straightwaye refrayning him selfe lest he shoulde seme to condemne all that were present he sayeth At ex his non es sed ex his qui possunt esse participes nihil curas aut magnum opus censes O but you are not such a poenitent but of the number of those whiche maye Communicate But you care not much for the matter or you thinke it is a greate Busynes c In which wordes it appeareth plainly that those which remained were such as might Communicat but yet such as partly of Negligence partly of Feare and Reuerence did refraine And therefore Chrysostome tempering his vehement talke saieth vnto such Considera quaeso Mensa Regalis est apposita caet Consider I beseche you The kinges table is layde and so forthe in many words persuading them to come and Receiue oftener After all whiche longe persuasion he concludeth att length saying Ne maius itaque vobis iudicium faciamus vos exâ—ortâ—mur non vt accedatis sed vt praesentia vos accessu dignos constituatis Therefore that we may not encrease youre iudgement meaning that the more they were warned the more should be their Damnation if they obeied not we do exhorte you not to come and receiue but to make youre selfe worthy bothe to be present and to receiue In which words he leaueth their Coming or not Coming to the Sacrament as free vnto them charging them only to make them selues Alwayes Worthy thereof to the entent that at Easter the Epiphanye and such other principall Festes they shoulde not be founde Vnworthy For so he disputeth in fewe lynes after sayinge Dic mihi quaeso post Annum Communionem sumens Quadraginta ne Dies ad totius temporis Peccatorum purificationem tibi satis esse putas Et Hebdomade ipsa rursum ad Priora reuerâ—eris Tell me I praye thee Thow cominge to Receiue after a yeares space thinkest thow that fourty daies he meaneth the Lent time will
Lewde ArgumeÌ„tes such as you knowe D. Harding did neuer make then by reason persuaded him the Truthe of the Cause so haue you in this point plaied the right Hicke Scorner But please not your selfe herein to much M. Iewell Porphyrius Lucian Iulian the Apostata and Celsus haue farre passed you in this Arte though they were neuer takeÌ„ for bishops of Christes Church But to omitte all your scoffing toyes alleaged out of Innocentius Thomas Aquinas Gerson and other which they writing onely to the Lerned Deuoute Reader thought it no such childishnes as you make it to Deuise of a good and Godly vsage Causes not euill nor vngodly though not so proper and waighty to omitt those I say I wil rest vpon that Cause which Hugo Cardinalis by you alleaged reciteth Whiche is this that whereas the daily Sacrifice of Christes Churche is a Memoriall and Remembraunce of Christes death on the Crosse as it hath before out of no childishe fathers ben proued vppon good Fridaye being the daye it selfe in which our Sauiour suffred the Churche M. Iewel which you ought not to scoffe at were you a Childe of that Mother thought good that day for the better expressing of the thinge it selfe to omitt the Accustomed remembraunce thereof Whiche omitting being Rare and Singular did more liuely strike the Affection of Christen folcke then the Accustomed Solemnities woulde haue done For this cause also that daye we see the Churche withoute all pompe or Solemnitie as though it were in heauinesse and lamentation to expresse the greate sorowe and desolation off our Lady and the blessed Apostles which then at that time being the onely Churche of Christ suffred by the death of their dere Master whom they loued so tenderly and of whose Resurrection they were not then persuaded thouroughly This is M. Iewell in fewe wordes a parte of the singular mysterie whiche the Church of God vseth in omitting the daily Sacrifice on good Friday If this do not satisfie you I maruail not Animalis homo non percipit ea quae Dei sunt The Sensuall man perceiueth not those thinges which are of God Only this maye suffise to proue that this custome which D. Harding speaketh of is not as you Vntruly charge him voide off all Colour or Shewe of Truthe Harding Christ gaue no necessary Commaundement either for the one or for bothe kindes beside and without the Celebration of the Sacrifice but lefte that to the Determination of the Church Iewell The .62 Vntruthe Christes Institution perteineth as well to the people as to the priest This Vntruthe hath before at large ben answered in this very article being before noted by M. Iewell and now againe repeted to make vp a number It was before the 49. Vntruthe Harding VVe beleue stedfastly with harte and confesse openly with mouthe that vnder eache kinde the very flesh and Bloud off Christ and whole Christ him self is present in the Sacrament 63 euen as Gelasius beleued Iewell The .63 Vntruthe Gelasius neuer beleued so Stapleton How are you sure of that M. Iewell You are very bolde and peremptory in all your assertions But you proue as litle as he that saieth nothing For notwithstanding his wordes which here you alleage he beleued as al other bishoppes of Rome beleued he beleued the reall presence of Christe in the Sacrament as it is at large proued againste yow M. Iewell in the Confutation of your Apologye fol. 98. To that place I referre you for better vnderstandinge off Gelasius his belefe herein Harding VVhereas before 64. off some the Sacrament was receiued vnder one Kinde and off some vnder bothe Kindes Iewell The .64 Vntruthe No Catholike congregation euer receiued the Sacrament in one kinde D. Harding saieth not so much but that some haue so receiued it which he saied truly and proued it before in the Article abundantly Whereby your challenge is also in this pointe answered The tenour whereof was that within the compasse of .600 yeares the Communion was neuer Ministred to the people vnder One kinde Now that you adde before Openly in the Church and then againe The whole people and nowe a Catholike Congregation this ofte Altering of the Question M. Iewel is but a mere wrangling and a plaine proclaiming of your selfe Guilty For had you ben able to haue auouched your first assertion you would neuer haue added so many newe Conditions vnto it And had not D. Harding vtterly ouerthrowen the same you woulde not haue sought such shamelesse shiftes as to make a newe Question of the whole matter and to require a proofe of that which you had not yet denied and whiche D. Harding vnlesse he had had the Sprit of prophecye to foresee these your alterations and extensions of the question was in no wise bounde to proue But M. Iewell to knitt vp this mattter to let passe your slaunderous charging of D. Harding with so many Vntruthes and not one yet found to be such finally to speake one worde shortly of this whole matter thus you shall vnderstande It hath sufficieÌ„tly appeared both by the treatise of D. Hardinge and by the Iustifiyng of these Vntruthes that the InstitutioÌ„ of Christ in the last Supper bindeth not all laye personnes or other to communicat vnder both kindes Also that within the space of the first 600. yeares thâ— Church of God of that tyme ministred vnto diuerse of Gods people the blessed Sacrament vnder one kind This being so proued this de Iure and also De facto both by Right and by Practise appearing euidently now for you M. Iewel to quarel De facto alterius generis of a practise more general for you to require proofes in Churches in OpeÌ„ Assemblies in an Open Order and Vsage off the Church it is the part of a quareller and wraÌ„gler It is not the part of one that seketh vnite It is no Bishoplike demeanour no charitable dealing no ChristiaÌ„ or Catholiâ—e vsage This is a SacrameÌ„t of vnite The Church of God hath vsed it bothe waies and hath by that double vsage interpreted vs the meaning of Christes institutioÌ„ touching the people to be indiffereÌ„t For we beleue M. Iewell and let this be the ende of al that the knowen Church of Christ not only of the first 600. yeares but also of these later 900. yeares is and hath ben alwaies so guided and preserued of almighty God according to the Clere Promises of God in the psalmes the prophets and the ghospel that neither in Doctrine of faith neither in Practise of seruing him it caÌ„ or hath at any time swarued much lesse broken his owne InstitutioÌ„ and ordonaÌ„ce in so weighty and daily a matter as the Ministration of his holy SacrameÌ„tes is This is our faith grounded vpoÌ„ holy Scripture and the worde of God By thiâ— faith we beleue and doo as the church beleueth and doth though we had no one testimonie of the ancieÌ„t primitiue Church to coÌ„firme and witnesse the
speaketh alowde Suâ—sum corda and the people answereth Habemus ad dominum By which lowde speaking of the priest the people is stirred to praier This D. Harding saied to be the meaning of Iuâ—â—inians Constitution Against this what doth M. Iewell Replie Verely to the matter nothinge But hauing first corrupted S. Augustin nipped S. Ciprian and then altered the wordes of D. Harding he confuteth thaâ— which was not auouched and fighteth with his owne shadowe thus Iewell And dothe he thinke the people can vnderstande the praieâ— without vndeâ—standing of the tounge As the people is not bounde to vnderstande the praier of the priest so neither is it nedefull that they vnderstande the toâ—nge Such vnderstanding of the people neither Iuâ—tinian nor S. Augustin nor S. Cyprian do require neither the wordes of D. Harding doe affirme Iewell S. Augustine if he were aliue woulde be ashamed to see suche a Commeâ—t vpon his wordes Yeâ— M. Iewell not only S. Augustin but S. Ciprian also if they were aliue woulde be ashamed and highly offended to see their wordes so corrupted and mangled and so vsed of you to maintaine a Schisme in the Churche which they so greuously abhoâ—red Iustinian if he were aliue how would he be ashamed to see his Constitution so racked to proue a Vulgar Seruice which he neuer dreamed of And had you any shame or regarde of your selfe M. Iewell you woulde be ashamed and sorye to thus to abuse bothe the doctours and auncient Fathers and also the very text which lyeth open for any man to reade and peruse Iewell He saieth further The priesâ— lifâ—eth vp his voice not that the people may vnderstanâ—e him but onely foâ— a tokeâ— to sâ—ewe that he praieth What passing impudency is this Is theâ—e nothinge in you but Vntruthe and falshood M. Iewell Is the answer of D. Harding so good that you can not Replie without altering his wordes or adding to his wordes For first where you affirme that D. Harding saieth The priest lifteth vp his voice not that the people may vnderstande him true it is he meaneth so though he saied not so But here you must remembre you make D. Harding to saie two contrary thinges Before you reason with him as though he had saied the people ought to vnderstande the praier when you saied And dothe he thinke c. Nowe you make him to saie That the priest â—ifteth vp his voicâ— not that the people may vnderstande him But nowe to come to your present Vntruthe when you saie But onely for a token to shewe that he praieth that is a manifest Vntruâ—he For D. Hardinge tolde you out of S. Augustin that the priest lifted vp his voice to the ende that the people hearing the priest might be lifâ—â—d vp vnto God and how By a certaine consâ—nt through putting in minde of the priest Iewell And thus he maketh the Miâ—ister of God worse then a bâ—asen trompet which if it gâ—ue no certaine sounde as S. Paule saieth no man can prepare him selfe to warre This is the iust iudgement of God that who so seketh to blinde others shall be geuen ouer and become blinde him selfe It is an easy matter when a mans eies be pluckt out to proue him blinde As longe as you make D. Harding to speake at your pleasure no maruail if you confute at pleasure In dede if the Priest lifted vp his voice only for a token that he praied and neither praied him selfe in dede neither stirred other thereby to praier then truly M. Iewelles collection might stande for good and then the Belles were as good as the Priest But if the Priest lifting vp his voice at the Seruice time bothe praieth him selfe vnto God and stirreth also the people thereunto as S. Augustin and S. Ciprian bothe haue saied then is the priest a true Minister of God then he geueth out a certaine sounde and bothe doth well him selfe and edifyeth other And then M. Iewell hath lost a good argument And notwithstanding S. Augustines minde coÌ„cerning the speaking of the priest be plaine in it selfe yet afterwarde in the same Booke he openeth it in this maner more at large VVe are agreed vpoâ— this that the 157 wordes we speake be tokens But a token vnlesse it betoken some thinge is no token Nowe if the priest after M. Hardinges construction vtter his wordes which are the tokens of his meaning in an vnknowen tounge and 158 the people vnderstande not what is tokened according to S. Augustins meaning he speaketh and yet saieth nothinge and sheweth tokens and yet tokeneth nothing All this cometh to one ende The wordes of the Priest vttered in an vnknowen tounge do vtter yet his meaning vnto the people For his meaning is not that the people shall vnderstande the wordes that he speaketh that hath not bene yet proued But his meaning is that the people thereby be stirred to deuotion be put in minde of their duty in the Churche and with one consent praie with the Priest This is that which S. Augustin and CipriaÌ„ reporte This is the meaning of Iustinians Constitution And this is so true that amonge such infinit diueâ—site of tounges and languages as well in the East Churche as in the West the Seruice hath yet neuer bene in any other tounge then Greke and Latine as it shall the next Vntruthe at large appeare Iewell Further S. Augustines wordes be clere The Priest in the assemblie speaketh alowde Significandae mentis causa vt homines audiant c. To the ende to declare his minde that men may heare him and by the sounde off his voiâ—e be put in remembraunce But M. Hardinge saieth No. The Pâ—iest speaketh not alowde to thentent to declare his minde neiâ—her that men may heare him nor be put in remembraunce but 159 only to geue a token that he praieth And thus by his glose he vtterly destroyeth the texte Stapleton Had this place of S. Augustine bene clere and euident on M. Iewelles side he would not haue vsed such Shiftes such Discourses such RepetitioÌ„s such Alterations such Coursing and Coyling of it as he hath done You see how ofte he hath turned and tossed it to make it serue and yet it will not be For whatsoeuer S. Augustin saied herein D. Harding saied it also who alleaged the whole wordes of S. Augustin in his text and by those wordes interpreted the Constitution of Iustinian Now cometh M. Iewell and after all other Shiftes affirâ—â—eth D. Harding to saie all quite contraâ—y to S. Augustin I can saie no more herein but desire the discrete and indifferent Reader to peruse the wordes of D. Harding in his owne text D. Harding denieth not as M. Iewell saieth here he doeth that the Priest speaketh alowde to thentent to declare his minde that men may heare him He denieth not that the Priest pâ—tteth the people in remembrance Neither dothe he saie that the Priest geueth only a token that he praieth But he saieth all the Contrary euen
Iff the people vnderstande the prayer off the Priest tâ—ey are the better brought vnto God and with greater Deuotion they answere Amen Therefore S. Paule saieth Iff thou being a Pâ—ieste bâ—â—sse with the Spirite and the people vnderstande thee not what profite then hath the people being simple and not vnderstanding thee Therefore in the primitiue Church bothe the blessinges and all other thinges were done in the Vulgar toungue The vulgar toungue saieth Lyra was vsed in the Primitiue Churche vpon occasion of these wordes of S. Paule Stapleton This was the Iudgement of Nicolaus de Lyra. You were wonte M. Iewell to saye his name was Nicolas the Lyar but afterwarde was called Nicolaus de Lyar. So muche you esteme this writer This man was a grey Frier of S. Francisces Order he liued about about two hundred yeares agoe He was lerned and is so accompted but yet farre vnder the estimation of anye Doctour or Father of the Churche To this place I haue before answered in the 78. Vntruthe and haue there declared howe litle it maketh for the vulgar Seruice But nowe to saye somewhat more therein firste it is to be noted that M. Iewell hathe mangled and falsifyed his Auhor For when he asketh the question VVhat profit hath the people being simple and not vnderstanding thee It foloweth in Lyra whiche M. Iewell thought good to nippe of quite in the middest Nihil aut modicum quia nescit se conformare tibi qui es Minister Ecclesiae respondendo Amen Nothinge or litle For he can not conforme him selfe vnto thee whiche arte the Minister of the Churche by answering Amen Againe whereas M. Iewell sayeth out of Lyra the blessinges and all other thinges wer done in the Vulgar toungue the wordes of Lyra are Benedictiones caetera communia The blessinges and other Common thinges not and all other thinges were done in the Vulgar toungue Last of al Lyra in all these wordes dothe not gather or conclude that the Seruice ought to be in the Vulgar tounge as you and youre felowes doe M. Iewell And therefore you haue brought yet no doctoure newe or olde that applieth this place of Saint Paule as you doe For it is two thinges to saie In that wordes S. Paule spake of the Seruice in the Vulgar toungue And to saie S. Paule in those wordes Commaunded the Seruice to be allwaies in the Vulgar toungue For the first you haue alleaged Master Iewell no olde doctour but onely Lyra and Iustinian as it shall anon appeare For the laste you can alleage neyther olde nor newe This is youre owne Singular Opinion and Heresye Iewell In the Councell of Acon it is writen thus The voice and minde off theÌ„ that singe vnto the Lorde in the Churche must agree together The reason thereof is taken out of this place of S. Paule I will singe with my Spiriâ— I will singe with my minde This is a morall application this is no literall Deduction He that celebrateth the Seruice and of such the Councell speaketh and praieth for the whole flocke ought to vnderstande that which he saieth to the entent he maye praie with spirite and with mynde But the ignorant laie people who are not bounde to celebrat the Seruice but to assiste and geue theyr assent vnto it and of whom that Councell in those wordes speaketh not are not bounde particularly to vnderstande what is saied or done being ones first instructed of the whole sufficiently And therefore in the nexte Canon of the same Councell it is prouided who and what men and with what Moderation the Synginge in the Churche shoulde be vsed The wordes are these Tales ad legendum cantandum psallendum in Ecclesia constituantur qui non superbè sed humiliter debitas Domino laudes per soluant suauitates Lectionis ac Melodiae Doctos demulceant minus Doctos erudiant Plusque velint in Lâ—ctione vel cantu populi Aedificationem quà m popularâ—m vanissimam Adulationem Let such be appointed to Reade and to singe in the Churche which may praise almighty God not vaine gloriously but humbly which with their swete Melody and softe reading may bothe delight the lerned and instructe the vnlerned desyringe rather by their reading and singinge to Aedifie the people then to seke after a vaine applause and Commendation of the people By this it appeareth the Councell applied the wordes of S. Paule not to proue a vulgar Seruice as M. Iewell and his felowes doe but to moue those whiche did singe and reade in the Churche to doe that thinge from the harte not by mouthe onely Wherein they did but renewe the auncient decree off the fourthe Councelll of Carthage where the Priest appointing one that shoulde singe in the Churche for not euery one that lifted songe at that time as in your disordered Congregation Master Iewell nowe they doe sayeth vnto hym these wordes Vide vt quod ore Cantas Corde Credas quod corde credis operibus comprobes See that that whiche thou singest withe thy mouthe thou beleue in harte and that which thou beleuest in harte thou perfourme in dedes Chrisostom saieth S. Paule driueth 221 the whole tenour of this matter vnto the profit of the hearers These be his wordes S. Paules saying standeth thus Onlesse I vtter my wordes so as they maye clerely and plainely be perceiued of you but onely shewe me selfe to haue the gifte of tounges ye sâ—all haue â—o fruite of those thinges whiche you know not For what profit can ye geate of a voice that ye can not vnderstanâ— M. Iewell hathe sone done with his newe Doctours Nowe he cometh in with his olde And yet of all the Doctours he alleageth only Chrysostom And he is in dede an olde Doctour but yet no olde Doctours Now howe dothe Chrysostom applie this place of S. Paule to proue a Vulgar Seruice Mary he saieth that S. Paule driueth the whole tenour of this matter vnto the profit of the hearers Of whiche Matter M. Iewell Of celebrating the Churche Seruice No M. Iewell Yowe maie not so deceiue vs. Chrysostome expounding this fourtenth Chapter of S. Paule in the first to the Corinthians declareth the purpose of the Aposte in the beginning of the Chapter to be thus Comparat inter se dona extenuans illud linguarum non inutile prorsus quidem nec vtile tamen vehementer per sese ostendens The Apostle compareth the giftes of the holye Ghoste betwene them selues extenuating the gifte of tounges shewing that it is not vtterly vnprofitable yet by it selfe not very profitable S. Paule persisting in this comparison soone after the beginning of the Chapter transferring the matter to him selfe saieth Nowe brethern if I come to yowe my selfe speaking in tounges what shall I profit you vnlesse I speake vnto you either by reuelation or by knowlâ—adge or by prophecye or by Doctrine Vpon these wordes of the Apostle Chrysostome saied the wordes whiche Master Iewell hathe alleaged â—s
we haue an Oracle of our Faithe in Councels vnder the same Number as we haue an example of vertu in the Storie This obseruation and likelyhood of Number semed to S. Ambrose Diuâ—num a Matter done by God a Mystery a Secret worke of the highest And yet is he not therefore accompted a fancyer of prety Mysteries as full pretely M. Iewel bableth neither is therefore that lerned worke of his reiected or doubted of In like mâ—ner S. Hierom in his Apologie ad Pammachium makeâ—â—â— Mystery of these three numbers thirty three score and a hundred which our Sauiour in the ghospel speaketh of the encrease that cometh of the sede falling vpon good earthe and saieth of these nuÌ„bers Triginta referuntur ad nuptias Septuaginta vero ad viduas Porro numerus centesimus exprimit viâ—ginâ—tatis Coronam Thirty are referred to Mariage Three score to widowes state And the numbre of a hundred representeth the garland of Virginite What nowe Will M. Iewell here either therefore denie this worke to be of S. Hieroms making or els saie that of Gods holy worde he hâ—d leasure to fansie preaty Mysteries In like maner when S. Augustine maketh Mysteries not only of Abraham Isaac and Iacob and their so many wiues but also of Lothes lying with his owne daughters and of the fornication committed by Iudas with his daughter in Lawe Thamar and such other matters against that heretike Faustus the Manichee will M. Iewelles modesty serue him trowe we to saie that that lerned piece of worke is none of S. Augustines but of some Fabler that had leasure vpon holy Scripture to fansie preaty Mysteries Or shall we rather saie that all this graue and depe consideration of M. Iewell which he bringeth as he saieth to satisfie his Readers minde is but a lewde scoffe of his idle brayne against that holy Councell more mete truly for a Sir Iohn hicke Scorner then for a my L. bishop And for such I let it passe Iewell But for better viewe hereof I remembre Cardinall Cusanus touching the famous donation of Constantine writeth thus Euen in the writing of it I haue founde manifest tokens of fâ—lsehood Stapleton This is well remembred surely But were your faithe as good as your memory is shrewde I trowe you would haue remembred some better thinge theÌ„ thus to haue trifled and toyed Verely a litle remembrance will serue to remembre a number not tokens of falshood but facing falshoods in dede open Vntruthes and lewde Lyes all alonge your Replie M. Iewell and especially in this your wise discourse of the Popes Forgerie Wherein I trowe you will at length conclude your selfe a Forger How beit let vs see nowe what your good remembrance hath holpen you in this matter Iewell The like may be saied of these M. Hardinges newe Canons Euen in the very vtteraunce and writiâ—g of them we may finde plaine contrariete and therefore vndoubted tokens of Vntruthe This like is vntruly saied of M. Iewell except he proue it And not only Vntruly but also Slaunderously Let then his proofes trie Iewell For the former twenty Canons whereof there is no question were made in the Councell of Nice But the rest whereof S. Augustin and the bishops of Africa moued doubte and whereby the Bishop of Rome woulde seme to claime were diuised at Rome and not at Nice Stapleton This is a mere kinde of Sophistry called Petitio Principij For that is brought to proue a Conclusion which ought it selfe to be proued and Concluded M. Iewell will proue that the Canons were diuised by the Pope bicause they were diuised by the Pope As much to saie Why is it so Mary bicause it is so Iewell This newe Canon here alleaged sayeth The bishop of Rome hath the rule and Souerainte ouer all Patriarcheâ— Stapleton This was not alleaged of Zosimus whom M. Iewell goeth aboute to proue a Forger But it is alleaged of Franciscus Turrianus and out of him by D. Harding Thus M. Iewel confoundeth and iumbleth thinges together But let vs see what he will inferre hereof Iewell But the very true and vndoubted Councell of Nice saieth farre otherwise Antiqua consaetudo seruetur per Aegyptum Lybiam Pentapolim vt Alexandrinus horum omnium habeat potestatem Quia vrbis Romae Episcopo parilis mos est Let the Auncient cuâ—tome be kept through out Agypte Lybia and Pentapolis that the bishop of Alexanâ—ria haue the gouernement of all these For the bishop of the Citye of Rome hath the like order By this Canon the B. of Rome hath 310 no Soueraynte ouer other Patriarches As M. Harding fantasieth but onely a felowship and equalyte with the rest to walke carefully with in his owne diuision as others were bounde to doo within theirs Stapleton This Canon dothe importe a Souuerainte of the B. of Rome ouer other Patriarches And therefore the contrary is vntruly auouched Aske you howe that may appeare Forsothe by these very wordes of the Canon alleaged Quia vrbis Romae episcopo parilis mos est Bicause the bishop of Roâ—e hath the like order The Canon Commaundeth not as a newe matter but as an Olde Custome that the bishop of Alexandria shall gouuerne all Aegypt and Pentapolis And why shall that olde Custom be kept The Canon saieth Quia vrbis Romae Episcopo Parilis mos est Bicause the Bishop of Rome hath the like Order As much to saie bicause the bishop of Rome hath so of longe time appoynted it and ordred it Els the reason of the Decree were voide and fonde For a fonde thinge it were to alleage for a reason of the lawe the Custome Maner and Order of an other if his Order and Maner did not importe an Authorite sufficient to Rule and direct the Lawe That holy Councell therefore alleaging expressely the Order before taken by the bishop of Rome as a Reason why the other Patriarches shoulde be thus and thus limited geueth vs to vnderstande that such their limitation proceded of the Bishop of Romes former Order and appoyntment and that the Decree of the Canon of that Councell was but a publike Testimony and Ratification of the Ancient Order before by the Pope taken and vsed And thus this Canon importeth a Souerainte of the B. of Rome ouer other Patriarches as by whose Order the others Iurisdiction was limited and restrayned Thus also the other Canon alleaged by Franciscus Turrianus and menâ—ioned by D. Harding is not contrary to the true Copies or Canons of the Nicene Councell but soundeth agreable to the same Iewell And in this canon these two wordes Parilis mos are specially to be noted which cannot 311. otherwise be expounded but only of like maner order and Authorite of Iurisdiction So saieth M. Iewell But then lett vs consider the reason of the Canon The Canon saieth The Patriarche of Alexandria shal haue Aegypt lybia and Pentapolis allotted to his Iurisdiction And why Forsothe by M. Iewelles reason Bicause
godly Nectarius we haue Consecrated bishopp in the generall Councell withe Common agreement This was not then against their mindes as M. Iewell fableth and faineth Neither was all this done in the presence of Gratian as M. Iewel ignorantly bableth but as thoâ—e biâ—hops do reporte to Damasus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the presence of the most godly Emperour Theodosius But what is all this against the Pope off whose only Authorite the question is here not off other bishoppes Verely this whole Councell of Constantinople certified Damasus the Pope of this their doing and of other bishops whom they had at that time also consecrated and desired his consent thereunto Euen as those which coÌ„secrated Anatholius certified Pope Leo of the same and required his Confirmation And Gratian him selfe whom M. Iewel alleageth acknowleadgeth so muche the Authoritye of the Pope that for a shorte ending of all controuersies he enacted by a publike decree that all the worlde shoulde folowe that faith and Religion which had continewed from S. Peter the Apostle in the See of Rome and which Damasus then Pope held and professed And thus farre is M. Iewel aided by Gratian. Harding The ecclesiasticall rule as we reade in the tripatit storie commaundeth that no Councell be celebrated and kepte without the aduise and the Authorite of the Pope Iewell The .iii. Vntruthe Standing in wilfull falsyfying of the text Stapleton Had M. Iewell Loued the Truthe tendred the instruction of his Reader and bene of that Ciuilite and gentle demeanour as his outwarde behauiour pretendeth truly he woulde neuer thus haue dealed Thou shalt see gentle Reader M. Iewelles proufes in the text by the which he is moued to charge D. Harding not only with falsefying but also with willfull falsyfying He saieth Iewell Here H. Harding hath auouched two great Vntruthes The one in his translation in the english the other in the allegation of the storie Touching the first Cassiodorus in his latin translation writeth thus Canonesiubent extra RomannuÌ„ nhil decerni pontificeÌ„ Socrates in the greke out of which the latine was taken writeth thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The englishe hereof iâ— this It is proâ—ided by the Canons that rules to binde the Churche be not made withâ—ut the consent of the bishop of Rome Let your traslation stande for good M. Iewell a while Let nihil decerni be truly englished that no rules be made to binde the Churche without the consent of the Pope Haue you not saied as muche for the Popes authorite as the translation of D. Harding saieth What difference is there in effect betwene the celebrating of a Councell and betwene making of Canons that binde the Churche whereas such Canons are made only in Councel Vnlesse you be such a Papiste that the Pope alone without a Councell may make Canons to binde the Churche If we had so largely translated the worde decerni off like you would haue crowed mightely But let vs now see the faultes which you finde in the translatioÌ„ vsed by D. Harding supposing he had translated these wordes which you alleage For the contrary shall anon appeare Iewell VVherein M. Harding hath purposely corrupted and falsified altogether both the greke and the latine not reporting one worde that hâ— found in the Original 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or decernere he englisheth to kepe or as he termeth it to celebrat a Councell Yet that is better transsated then did your frend WolfgraÌ„gus Musculus who turned the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ecclesias consecrare to consecrat Churches Howbeit touching D. Hardinges translation if we take the whole sentence of the place we shall see his translation may stande for true and good The whole place is this Iulius rescripsit eis qui fuerant in Antiochia congregati culpaÌ„s eos primum de iniurijs literarum deinde cur se ad Synodum suam non vocassent canonibus nimirum iubentibus pieter Romanum nihil decerni Pontificem Iulius the Pope wrote backe to the bishops of the East assembled together in Antioche blaming them first of their iniurious letters theÌ„ bicause they called him not to their Councell Whereas the Canons do commaunde that nothinge be determined beside the bisshop of Romes sentence The story mentioneth that the Pope blamed the bishoppes of the East whiche called a Councell not making him preuy thereunto And what was the reason why the Pope so blamed them The story saieth Canonibus nimirum iubentibus c. Bicause the Canons do commaunde that nothinge be determined howe but in Concell without the aduise of the Pope And is not this as much in effect as to saie Without the aduise of the Pope no Councell can be summoned But we shall see anon that the very translatour of the Greke Epiphanius hathe translated in an other place this very Greke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Concilia celebrare to kepe and celebrat Councells euen as D. Hardinge hathe englished it But nowe lett vs procede withe M. Iewells corrections Iewell 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whiche is praeter sententiam or as Cassiodorus turnetâ— it extra he englisheth without the Aduise and Authoâ—ite Stapleton Not Cassiodorus M. Iewell but Epiphanius turned that Greke It appeareth you trust not allwaies your owne eyes in these matters But to the purpose First for praeter and extâ—a you turne it your selfe M. Iewell in your owne translation without And why I beseche you may not D. Harding so turne it Is there such partialite in the kinde hart of M. Iewell that he maye translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 without and D. Harding may not translate it so Then for the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sententia whiche D. Harding turneth Aduise and Authorite M. Iewell turneth consent for that I remitt it to the Grammarians I am right â—ure that the dictionaries bothe greke and latine do confesse that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Greke and sententia in Latine dothe rather more ofteâ— and more properly betoken Aduâ—se and Authorite then Consent Let vs procede No he woulde not suffer no not him in whose quarell he thus fighteth to passe without a venwe â—or where he sawe â—im named 〈◊〉 â—â—e Greke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and in the Latine Romanum Pontificem the Romain bishop he thought it beste to lâ—aue bothe the Creke and the Latine and to call him the Pope Stapleton See what heresy and malice is Did euer any man I will not saie lerned as a diuine but conuersant in common grammer so wrangle so trifle so quarel aboute nothinge I remembre at the last Marte of Franckforde the brethern of Wittenberge and Lipse had pointed Flaccus Illyricus ryding vpoÌ„ a gote and the Diuell drawing him in to hell with this posy aboute him in verses Certans de lana caprina Beholde a man that fighteth for gotes wolle This picture and posy may from Flaccus Illyricus be most rightly deriued to M. Iewell For I beseche you M.