againe I require the voice of the sheepheard read me this matter out of the Prophets read it out of the Psalms read it out of the law read it out of the Gospel read it out of the Apostles writings in his book de pastoribus c. 14. and so likewise conclude with him I owe my consent without gainsaying onely vnto the canonicall scriptures .. cap. 61. de naturâ gratiâ and according to these bookes of the scriptures we haue learned of him to iudge freely of all other writings lib. 2 cap. 29. contra Cresconium The fathers are full of such places whereby any man may see that by their very good leaue we are not to be pressed to beleeue or receaue any thing not taught in the scriptures vpon their bare authority and therefore these and such like places in them considered if you would haue had their names the places you cite in them to haue in sadnes bred any sound credit to any of these foure points you alleadge them for either should you haue warraÌ„ted them by good proofe out of the scriptures your selfe or haue shewed vs how they proued them consonant at the least to the same Howbeit because you shall not abuse the Reader to make him thinke that the fathers you name for these matters are further of your opinion then they be indeede as I haue not refused to examine your opinion and the places you send vs vnto for your ceremonies so will I for the Christian readers sake take the paines to deale with you for in al your other 3 opinions of confession praier to Saints for the dead with it your seueral quotations set down for the proofe of the same To go on therefore according to my course begun for confession before the receiuing of the sacrameÌ„t you saie first our sauiour Christ doeth teach vs that the ecclesiasticall ministers haue authority to binde and to forgiue sins and for proofe hereof you set in your margent Iohn 20. Mat. 16. I am sure here by confession that you speake of you meane your auricular confession wherof your Tridentine councel taketh such care that that in the 6 7 and 8 Canon thereof touching this matter it solemnely anathematizeth al those that hold auricular confession not to be necessary to saluation by the law of God saying that it is but the deuise of man Which they there haue defined to be a secret reckoning vp vnto the priest of al mortal sins at the least with al their circumstances whereof by due premeditation the party can haue any remembrance whereunto they bind all persons aboue certaine yeares of both sexes at least once in the yeare and that namely in lent before their receiuing at Easter Now this confession your schoolmen and doctours do teach must be made so fullie and exactly that no sin nor circumstance thereof must be coÌ„cealed for then therby al the labour is lost and the absolutioÌ„ frustrated from al the rest Which doctrine cannot chuse but a number of waies proue a needles and a desperate tormenting of coÌ„scieÌ„ces For first it laieth vpoÌ„ them an ineuitable necessity not onelie to doe that which God neuer required at their hands but also that which either is simply impossible vnto theÌ„ to doe for the multitude of their sins and circumstances thereof or else impossible for them to doe in such maner as that they can satisfie themselues that they haue omitted no piece of due premeditation to call all their sins the circuÌ„stances thereof that they should coÌ„fesse to their remeÌ„braÌ„ce which a nuÌ„ber of your owne side most deuoutly giueÌ„ to doe this in the best maner haue bene enforced to confesse Yet this confession before the sacrament though indeed it bee a thing that hath no ground or warrant at all in the Scriptures but was as both Iohannes Scotus libro 4. sententiarum Distict 17. art 3. and Anton part 3. histatit 19 doe confesse first imposed as necessary by the Lateran councel in InnoceÌ„t the thirds time about the year of the Lord one thousand 2 hundred and fifteene you here would seeme to couÌ„tenaÌ„ce by two places of scripture co begin withal But your betters haue thought otherwise of this your kinde of confession For your glosse de paenitentiâ Distinct 5. Cap. in principio confesses plainely that it came in rather by some tradition then either by authority of the olde testament or new which tradition he saieth yet ought to binde the West Church to vse it though not the Greekes East Church which haue it not And Beatus Rhenanus in his notes vpon Tertullians booke of repentance forasmuch as hee findeth not therein anie mention hereof not onely gathered that it was not in vse then but also hee sheweth that he thought it came in after grew of the mislike of the inconueniences of the continuance of publicke confessions made in the publicke assembly in the hearing of al the congregation vsed seuerally in the former times And Soto coÌ„tra BreÌ„tiuÌ„ reckoneth vp both your other two points following of praying to Saints and for the dead this also amongst the things grouÌ„ded but vpon the vnwriten word or tradition You had therefore delt both more wisely and more simply honestly if of these and such other great Rabbins of your side you had learned to fetch the ground of this your confession from any where els rather then from the scriptures But seeing you will seeme to haue found that ground for it there which they could not let vs a little consider how fâ—ly now the places you quote serue your turne You meane I am sure both by your words and quotations that Christs doing and saying to his Apostles set downe by Matthew John in the places you quote in these words to thee speaking namely in the first place to Peter I wil giue the keies of the kingdoÌ„e of heaueÌ„ whatsoeuer thou shalt binde in earth shal be bound in heauen whatsoeuer thou loosest in earth shal be loosed in heaueÌ„ And in the other he breathed vpoÌ„ theÌ„ and saied receiue yee the holy Ghost whose sins yee remit they are remitted whose sins yee retaine they are retained Wherby indeed it is euident that our Sauiour first promised to Peter in the name of al the rest after gaue to al his faithful Apostles first the gift of the holy Ghost and then power and authority to vse the â—eies of the kingdome of heauen to binde and loose and to remit retaine sinnes which power and authority they most faithfully and effectually vsed whiles faithfully they preached saluation to the peniteÌ„t beleeuer and denouÌ„ced damnation to the impenitent vnbeleeuers with all duety as they saw cause vsing the censures of the Church of admonition rebuking suspending and excommunicating though they were neuer acquainted with your auricular confession And likewise the same power is exercised by the Lords faithfull ministers in his church still not by the helpe of your
word to trust them any more in their quoting or citing of the fathers But lest we should thinke that this was but a slippe of his by chance that hee was not his craftes-master in this kinde of dealing he hath plaide vs the very like trick againe with this same father pa. 18. where he alleadgeth the fourth chapter of the said Irenaeus third booke to iustify their traditions not warranted by the written word For in the beginning of the saide chapter not fiue lines before the wordes cited by him hee speaking of the scriptures written by the Apostles Euāgelists he saith that they into that rich treasury most fully haue brought all things that belōg to truth so that euery one that will may frō thence take the drink of life And that which he speaketh in the words alleaged by him of following of tradition it is spoken only by way of supposition to shew what course had bene best for the Church whē any questiō should haue arisen if they had not left vs scriptures For his words are these if the Apostles had not left vs scriptures must we not haue followed the order of tradition which they gaue to them to whom they committed churches In which case which is not our case nowe seeing they haue left vs scripture we grant we should haue beene in the deciding of all controuersies that could haue arisen ouerruled by that which they deliuered by word of mouth to such and therefore that being the case no better or readier way for the ending of controuersies should there haue been then to haue recourse to the most ancient Churches wherin they were conuersant and so by their tradition to haue learned the certainty therein But thus by way of supposition Irenaeus speaking of their tradition in the case supposed by him certaine it is that by their tradition he vnderstādeth that soūd form of doctrin which they deliuered by their preaching teaching which thē would should haue been the same forasmuch as they spoke wrot by one spirit that now they haue left vs in writing And therefore euē then the Romish Church should haue been as far to seeke as she is now for hauing any warrant from thence for those things that she holdeth either contrary or besides the word written And that by tradition he meaneth here no other thing it is euident for in the first chapter of that booke he saith plainely Quod tum praeconiauerunt postea per Dei voluntatem nobis tradiderunt in scripturis columnam fundamētum fidei futurum that is that which first they preached after by the will of god they deliuered vnto vs in the scriptures to be the piller and ground of faith And in the third chapter of that book hauing before spoken of the Apostolicke tradition he after sheweth what he meant thereby namely this that god the maker of heauen and earth c as he is described in the olde testament the Apostles haue taught to be the father of our Lord Iesus Christ contrary to the phantasticall franticke dreame of Valentinian so plainely shewing that they that would euen by the scriptures themselues might learne what the Apostolick traditiō was Now what is this for the authorishing the vnwritē traditiōs of the Romish church which are not ōly al beside the scriptures but whereof the most are contrary thereūto But this gentle reader is the right trick of all the crue of these Romanists thus by the ambiguity of words out of the fathers to seek to colour their absurd opinions so er thou be a ware to deceaue thee if thou take not heede As for example to perswade a mā to like of their beggerly vnwritten traditiōs whatsoeuer any father speaketh of traditiō though it be neuer so plaine in the author himselfe that thereby he meaneth nothing lesse then such traditions as theirs yet that must be confidently brought in as fit most pregnant for their purpose Likwise whatsoeuer any father hath said of any sacramētall chāge of the outward elements for that therein their name vse estimation are chāged though the same father in a thousād other places shew that his iudgemēt is that there is no change at all there in substance yet that must be quoted as a flat place for Popish trāsubstantiation And euen so if they find in a father speaking of the Eucharist any mention of a sacrifice as though there were no kind of sacrifice but that which they dream to bee there that must be vrged as a strong place to proue their blasphemous sacrifice for the quick the dead And this iugling with the fathers and cosening of their poore simple readers vse they in al their cōtrouersies But at this time thou must pardō this preface writer this fault because herein he doth but study to bee like him before whose book he hath set this his preface For chapter the fifth he himselfe most grosly committeth this same fault in the detection whereof I haue more at large discouered this lewde dealing of theirs In the meane time let vs not forget that Irenaeus hath taught vs what that church is who those pastours be what those traditiōs are that we must obey be ruled by namely onely that Church that hath the scriptures for the piller groūd of her faith lib. 3. cap. 1. those pastours that succeede the Apostles in truth of doctrine li. 4. cap. 43. those traditiōs which haue good warrant from the scriptures themselues lib. 3. cap. 3. whereof it must needes follow that all the places reasons quoted by him either out of the scriptures or fathers to binde vs to yeeld obedience to their churches ordinances their prelates cōmandements to the points warranted onely by their traditions their Church hauing another foundation of her faith then the worde written namely alwaies their popes will as it hath the commādemēts of their prelates traditions being not only beside but also often most grosly contrary to that word of God writtē as I shal shew in sundry places er I haue done with Albine in Irenaeus iudgemēt ar but so many abusings and corruptings of their holy good meanings And yet thus hauing to no purpose bestowed a great deale of idle paines as one that had said inough to proue that the authority of all the learned fathers the cōmon consēt of all Christiā regions prescriptiō of time were al ful fast of his side he lustily braggeth p. 22. that if their be any weight in any or al these together that his side hath the true gospell the true sence thereof That their Religion is the very Christian Religion their order of ceremonies the right order and that their fasting and praying is according to the scriptures and that therefore their church is the lawfull and true spouse of Christ from which who so seperates himselfe is in state of damnation This thus only said thereupō by and by as though there were no
to God the consciences of his superiours The XVI Chapter NOT we but your Romish Iesuites and seminary Priests are the sowers of that seede of sedition that you speake of neither is it we but they and such like of your side which when they haue so done alleadge onely for their defence their ardent and Apostolique zeale and affection to winne soules This in England and Ireland these late yeares hath notoriously and very often beene found true in these and questionlesse other kingdomes where the Gospell is preached and established haue and doe finde the like For they go vp and downe secretly vnder the pretence of reconciling men and women into the bosom of their mother Church to alienate their heartes from their naturall soueraigne to the obedience of a forraine potentate and so prepare them against the time when opportunity shal best serue to procure the death or deposition of their lawfull Prince And that thus without anie offence to God they maie doe they perswade themselues by vertue of the Popes bull in that therein they bee absolued from their alleageance vnto their home supreme magistrate and are thereby also taught that in furthering either his depriuation or death they shal doe honourable acceptable and meritorious seruice to the mother church of Rome These thinges I say haue of late yeares too too often here in England in open places of iudgement beene manifestly proued against your Iesuites and Popish Priestes and therefore as traitours a number of them and their followers haue beene most worthely executed Which thinges being so euident as they are great shame is it that yet you should not blush to charge vs with these thinges whereof yours are most famously guilty and whereof truely you cannot conuict any of ours You tell vs wee should haue praied to the Lorde of the haruest to thrust forth more labourers thereinto as Christ hath commanded vs Math. 9. and not as you quote it Math. 15. and that in the meane time we should haue reformed our selues and not haue taken vpon vs without some expresse commaundement from God a matter of such importance as the reformation of your estate is According to this counsell of Christ wee haue praied to the Lorde of the haruest and he in his mercy towardes his Church hath heard our prayers and wee hope will euery day more and more to the full ouerthrowe of yours and perfect consummation of ours But that in the meane time they whose eies God hath opened to see the Babylonish confusion of yours should there haue staied as you would haue had them vntill they had a further commission from God then already they had for so you must needes meane by that further commission or expresse commaundement that you would haue had them first to haue had you can neuer proue For they whose ministrie it pleased God to vse to detect your Antichristian doings according to his worde 2. Thessal 2. in these later daies were such as namely Wickliffe Iohn Hus and Luther that had not onely the ordinary calling of those times to feede Gods people as pastours and doctours but also they were such as God had blessed with rare and extraordinary giftes of knowledge and zeale and therefore if they seeing the abhominations of your Synagogue and the grosse blindenesse and errours that you still laboured to holde Gods people in had contented themselues onely with praying vnto God for the redresse therof with reforming of thēselues had not saied their hands shoulders to the work vsing the talents that God had bestowed vpon them to his best aduantage without a further new and expresse commaundement then they had alreadie receiued in the writen word should not they with the vnprofitable seruant Math. 25. haue had their wages They tooke not in hand to doe as they did as you would make your Reader beleeue onely vnder the colour of zeale without expresse warrant from God their Lorde and master For beside their zeale and knowledge by their callinges in that they were famous doctours and pastours in their times they were bound by Gods expresse worde Esay 58.1 Ezech. 33.6 7. and in sundrie other places to doe as they did But to bring vs and our ministers into hatred in this Chapter you labour to perswade your reader that as of burning zeale they haue in many places dispossessed your Bishops and Priestes of their places so as Gods Lieutenants and as men voide of all partiality for thus tauntingly it pleaseth you to write they wil proceede against ciuill magistrates both higher and lower in like maner because many of them haue beene and be as you say as ill liuers and rather worse then your Popish Prelates haue beene Which to bee an vnlawfull thing and the cause of all confusion and horrible disorder you bestowe a great deale of needelesse paines to proue for it is a thing that wee teach and vrge in earnest and you your practise to the contrary beeing so vsuall as it is considered onely in iest and for a fashion teach it But indeede this is the way which the malicious and ancient enemies of Gods Church haue alwaies vsed to disgrace the true seruants of God by with the Kings and Princes of the world and therefore you doe well in that you are nothing behinde them in malice enmity against Gods people in that you studie also to be like them in this Wee reade you know after the returne of Gods people out of their captiuitie in Babylon when they beganne once to build and to go forward either with Gods house in Hierusalem or the walles of that City alwaies this was one of the practises of their enemies to labour their discredit to the hinderance of their worke to accuse them to the Persian Kings to intende therein sedition and rebellion against them Ezr. 4. Nehem. 6. And it appeares Iohn 19. it was the principallest meanes whereby the high Priest and the Iewes prouoked Pilate to giue sentence against our Sauiour that they tolde him that he was not Caesars frend if he deliuered him thereby insinuating though in trueth hee had both payed tribute vnto Caesar and had taught others both by example and word publickly to yeelde vnto Caesar whatsoeuer was due vnto him Math. 16. 22. and they of all other did most repine at Caesars iurisdiction ouer them and their cuntrey that hee was one whose doings and doctrine tended to the supplāting of Caesar In like maner Act. 17. 24. wee finde it one of the vsuall meanes that the vnbeleeuing Iewes and other lewde people then when none in their hearts regarded Caesar and his authoritie lesse vsed to discredit the Apostles and their doctrine to accuse them to be seditious and such as cared not for Caesars decrees Neither did this practise die when the common weale of the Iewes ceased for it appeares in Euseb lib. 5. cap. 1. and in Tertullians Apology in sundry places that there was nothing more common in the primatiue Church
bloud And so far are they of yet in this great light to be ashamed of murdring treacherously Christian Princes whom otherwise they cannot frame to their fancies that of very late yeares by a most wicked varlet whom they had persuaded that therein he should doe a meritorious deede they so dispatched the noble Prince of Orenge and since by the like persuasions haue sought by one Parrie and others to effect the like against our soueraigne whom the Lorde for his Christes sake so long preserue that she may see either the happy conuersion or effectuall confusion of all her enemies Now these thinges considered and they beeing most true as from point to point they are testified by your owne Cronicles if there had beene any shame in you you would neuer haue gone about as you haue to charge vs with your surmised intention to displace ciuill magistrates Whereas you would seeme to strengthen this your malicious accusation in that we haue displaced some of your Popish Bishops Priestes Monkes and Friers and refuse obedience and submission to your Popes you must vnderstand that herein you commit two great and foule faults the first is that you stretch the places here quoted by you which teach indeed only obedience and submission to ciuill magistrates and to lawfull ecclesiasticall persons in the Lorde as though therein and thereby God had aswell tied and bound al persons to obedience and subiection to your vnlawfull and Antichristian Prelates and cleargie yea and that in such strict maner as though it were vnlawfull how bad and wicked soeuer they and their commandemēts be either to refuse to obey them or to speake any hard word against them your second fault is that you take it that there is no difference to be put betwixt your ecclesiasticall Prelacies and the higher powers that the scriptures in these places teach obedience and submission vnto whereas indeede there is as great differēce as there is betwixt heauen and earth and the ordinances of God and the vnlawfull deuises of man betwixt the higher powers there spoken for the higher powers that you plead so much for For the higher powers there spokē for be such as though sometimes for iust causes knowen vnto God they light in the hands of wicked and profane persons yet of themselues are the lawfull ordināces of God whereas the authority of your Popes of other your Romish Prelates whom we haue displaced and refuse to submit our selues vnto is vtterly vnlawful and not onely without warrant from the lord in his word but directly contrary to the same For whereas Rom. 12. Ephesiās 4. the spirit of God hath reckoned vp all the ecclesiastical officers which Christ the master of the house hath appointed for the ful and perfect ordering therof none of these of yours whō we haue displaced and refuse to obey are once remembred besides both contrary to Christ our sauiours expresse cōmandement Peters also Luk. 22.1 Pet. 5. they take vpon them as tyrannially as euer did any Princes of the nations Lordship ouer Gods inheritance therfore by their proceedings we finding them to be very antichristian both S. Pauls prophesie that Antichrist shall be consumed by the spirit of Gods mouth 2. Thess 2. and that flat commandement giuen vs from heauen Apoc. 18. to come out from Babylon to seperate our selues from her doe assure vs that lawfully wee may speake against them and their enormities and not only refuse submission vnto them but also to doe what we can to roote out such plants which our heauenly father neuer plāted out of the earth Wherefore fondly doe you go about to teach out of the Prophet Ieremy that as the Iewes were taught submission and obedience to Nabuchadnezzar so we should learne thereby to chamber our tongues against your Pope and other Prelates also quietly to submit our selues vnto them For though he were a wicked tyrant yet his authority it selfe was lawfull and the ordinance of God and he came vnto his authority ouer the Iewes by force of armes conquest which is an ordinary way that God vseth to inuest Kings and Emperours with such ciuill authority ouer nations and cuntries by whereas the very authority it selfe of your Popes and other Prelates howsouer you cōfidently and yet vntruly aduouch that S. Paul Rom. 13. is to bee vnderstoode aswell to haue spoken that which he there speaketh of them as of Kings other lawfull magistracies offices is as I haue proued vtterly vnlawful and the meanes whereby they haue come thereunto hath beene shameles wresting of the scriptures fraud deceit treachery maine force which all are abhominable steps for cleargy mē to attaine vnto their offices by neither would we if we had liued vnder the persecuting Emperours of Rome or vnder Nabuchadnezzar as you here insinuate haue refused to yeelde so far obedience and submission vnto them in all quietnes as we might not disobeying the Lorde to obey them and further neither the Iewes vnder the one nor the Christians vnder the other were bound which obedience and submission to your Popes Prelates will not serue your turne for you would haue it yeelded vnto them without limitation for otherwise they should not be obeyed wherein you would fainest haue thē obeyed And therefore in your Canon law dist 40. cap. Sipapa it is enacted that though your Popes should deale neuer so lewdly both in respect of themselues and in carying others by heaps vnto hell yet none must be so presumptuous as to aske them why they doe so Howbeit for the more full satisfying the Reader and clearing our selues of this your slanderous accusation of intending the displacing of ciuill magistrates for their wicked liues this further is the common and receaued doctrine amongst vs concerning that point that though Christian subiects may not disobey God to obey their wicked commandements yet they are rather patiently to suffer the penalties that they shal inflict vpon them for their chusing rather to obey God then them then to vse or to consent to the vsing of any forcible meanes to depose them And this our practise hath plentifully made to appeare to bee the common and receaued opinion in this case amongst vs. But whereas you would haue vs so humble and meeke by abusing and wresting Christes counsell giuen vs Mat. 11. as that we should obey Pilate Annas and Caiphas euen to the suffering of death without once opening our lippes to speake anie word of disgrace against them I see the onely marke you shoote at is that we should obey your Popes Prelates in whatsoeuer they commande vs or else that we should suffer them without once muting against them to make what hauocke of vs they list For though you would seeme to plead for our obedience submission to the ciuill magistrates yet plainely you bewray that so your Popes and Prelates might get this submission at our hands you haue the thing you shoote at and care for But
and torments of hell it selfe that Origen speaketh of But to haste to an ende of this point Chrysostome and Augustine are yet behind it may be these speake something more directly to the purpose it cannot bee denied they doe but the more a great deale was their weakenesse and fault and neuerthelesse yours euen where it was Chrysostome is alleadged onely in his third homily vpon the epistle to the Philippians where speaking as it is euideÌ„t by his words of such as die in their sinnes and infidelity so that they go to hell where saieth he peccata exuere non licet that is they cannot put of their sinnes he exhorteth their frends aliue to mourne bitterly for such because they are with the damned all the daies of their life that so the better they may take heede of the like sinne so yet to shewe their loue and in the ende addeth defleamus istos iuuemê° eos pro viribus c. let vs mourne for these let vs to our power helpe these let vs procure theÌ„ some helpe little indeed yet let vs helpe theÌ„ How what way praying for theÌ„ let vs exhort also others to pray for theÌ„ wtout ceasing let vs giue almes for them Habet res ista noÌ„nihil coÌ„solationis this thing hath some coÌ„solatioÌ„ c. What is this to the great vnspeakeable good that you faÌ„sie coÌ„meth by your praiers and almes giuing for the dead Yea I wonder how you are not ashamed to quote vs this place for your praying for the dead seeing you your selues as iustly you may condemne as not onely fruitles but as quite vnlawful all praying and giuing of almes for such as hee speaketh of But you will saie that going on in the same place ere hee haue done he goeth further and saieth that in the celebratioÌ„ of the diuine mysteries it was not in vain decreed of the Apostles that ther should a memory be made of the departed hence they know that great good would grow vtno them hereby and how can it be but that all the people and Priests praying and lifting vp their hands to heauen and the reuerend sacrament laied there but that we should pacifie God praying for these but that which we say now we speake of them that departed hence in the faith I graunt these words there follow but yet the most that these words proue is that he thought the commemoration of the dead was instituted by the Apostles and that the doing thereof at the celebration of the Lords Supper would be very accceptable vnto God and doe them some good But in all this if you vnderstand him aright here is nothing saied for your praying for the ease of soules in purgatory For as before he spake of those that were in hel in the state of damnation so he speaketh this of those that were in the state of saluation already with Christ their king in a blessed estate and that departed hence in sure faith thereof as his owne words entring into this matter and concluding the same make it manifest For all that he speaketh of that die or are dead he deuideth onely into these two sortes hauing first taught what is to be done for the wicked vnfaithfull daÌ„ned ones then he coÌ„meth sheweth thus what is to be done for the other And therfore eueÌ„ by your own receiued doctrine speaking but of these you can vnderstaÌ„d him but of a thaÌ„keful coÌ„memoration of such in their praiers But suppose he made an other distribution of the dead into bad good and meane as you doe and that he spake these words of the meane in your sence what reason is there why you should binde vs to allow of his opinion in this and that you your selues will not allow neither of that which he taught before to be done for the damned nor of that which immediatly after these words he setteth downe of those that die being yet but catechumeni that is but learners of the catechism whoÌ„ he saith they barred of this comfort and left altogither destitute of all helpe but of one that is that almes might be giuen in their name wherby some refreshing might come vnto them whereas you saie that Ambrose did well in praying for Gratian who yet died vnbaptized Yet this you will say is somewhat that he fathereth the coÌ„memoratioÌ„ of the dead that he speaketh of vpon a decree of the Apostles I graunt it is somwhat more then you haue heard his ancient Tertullian hath done or any other before him yet be it somwhat or more you are neither somwhat nor any more nearer your purpose then you were in the beginning But to conclude with him though he 20 more such as he should neuer so often tel vs that it was decreed by the Apostles that in the celebratioÌ„ of the diuine mysteries there should such memorial or remeÌ„braÌ„ce be made of the dead they must pardoÌ„ vs if we beleeue theÌ„ not For if they would be beleeued indeede in so saying wee haue learned to say vnto theÌ„ as Aug. saied vnto such as in his time vnder such colours troubled the Church with their own fancies legite hoc nobis de lege c. Read vs it theÌ„ out of the law the prophets psalms gospel or writings of the Apostles that we may beleeue it De vnit eccles ca. 6. For euen of Chrysost himselfe we are taught so to reuerence these canonical scriptures for their sufficiency that he that cannot proue that which he saieth therby but coÌ„meth in some other way not graunted him he is a theefe hom 58. in Iohan. And therfore he is not to thinke much if we refuse to credit him in this which he can neuer proue to be as he saieth by any souÌ„d proofe either out of the scripture or else where Thus therfore to dismisse him let vs see last of al what is brought vs out of Augustine to this purpose Out of him three places are cited the first is out of his 2 booke de Genesi against the Manichees cap. 20. where there is not a word spoken of praying for the dead onely there saieth he speaking of such as haue not whiles they were here wel tilled their field but let it be ouergrowen or oppressed with thornes that such after this life shal either haue the purging fire or eternal paine by which purging fire what he vnderstandeth it is hard to gesse hee had so manie variable opinions thereof as I haue shewed before and therfore hence no good argument can be drawen to proue that he allowed the popish purgatory I am sure they are not so in loue with this place that to proue their purgatory hence they will now teach that such as he speaketh of shall go thither For how coulde he haue described the worst sort of men more liuely then he doeth those that he speaketh of For is not he an extreame bad one that hath so neglected here the field of his minde that he carieth it
traditions because they wil not stand with the plaine scriptures themselues we reiect Otherwise we are ready alwaies to proue our sence thereof to agree with the ancient Church her doctours better then yours can And as for the variety amongst vs of interpretatioÌ„s which you charge vs withal sure we are it wil neuer proue so great as hath beene and is amongst you or as is betwixt your interpretation and that which was of them 900. yeares ago and therefore for any thing you haue yet saied you your selues are the rouing sheepe froÌ„ the ancient sheepfold you are they which whiles men slept haue sowed cares amongst the good corne and which are the sheepe sicke in religion as well as in maners and not we And therefore they that haue ioined with you whosoeuer they haue beene are like at the day of iudgement to smart for nothing more then for taking part with you And so to conclude this Chapter whatsoeuer hitherto you haue gained at the handes of the simple by these your vaine and swelling wordes you shall hereafter loose ten times as much amongst them that are wise thereby The XL. Chapter I Know wel that you will take this confession of mine to your aduantage saying that for feare of being infected with our superstitious diseases you haue seperated your selues froÌ„ the coÌ„mon flocke but if you doe consider my first words they haue barred you al maner of waies to reply iustly for I haue already saied that although wee be sickely weake sheepe as touching our doings or maners yet in regarde of our faith thaÌ„kes be to God we are safe sound keeping stil a Indeede you haue saied and saied it againe againe but yet you haue neuer proued â—t nor 〈◊〉 that integritie of religion that by succession of pastors we haue receiued froÌ„ the Apostles without adding or diminishing any thing to the ground of our Catholicke beliefe for as for ceremonies the Church hath vsed the euer as touching the time the place to the honour of God edification of our neighbours b Your antichristian religion is that that hath caused vs to separate ourselues from you as wee are biddeÌ„ Reue. 18. vers 4. therfore if you did seperate your selues froÌ„ our kinde of liuing to lead a holy solitarie life as the holie Heremites Saints haue done in times past forsaking the coÌ„uersation of the coÌ„mon people to liue in coÌ„teÌ„plation without seperating theÌ„ selues froÌ„ the coÌ„munioÌ„ of the Church in the which they haue beene baptised had receiued their faith your doings had beene as much worthie of praise in that respect as now they are daÌ„nable considering how you forsake the coÌ„moÌ„ tabernacle within the which both you we haue receiued the sacraments of regeneration our spiritual food altogither And to the ende that no body run astraie froÌ„ the right path that he should follow the good ChristiaÌ„ ought to fixe in his minde this resolution I meane to serue God to liue in the catholicke faith coÌ„monlie or priuatelie for wheÌ„ there is any questioÌ„ put as touching the life the coÌ„moÌ„n are c This is a right popish glosse that is a plaine peruerting of Christs meaning as * Mat. 7. Christ doth say doth lead one to perdition the narrow waie doeth guide vnto the part of saluation But if one speake of religion the contrarie is verified for the coÌ„mon way is the waies of health the priuate waie is the path of damnation d And this is an other The Prophet Dauid in the 24 Psalme had a regard to this when he praied God to teach him his waies by the religion his pathes by the maners and customes The XL. Chapter YOu were deceiued in thinking that we would pretend your euil maners or your difference in ceremonies for the defence of our seperation from you For we haue alwaies protested that it was especially your Antichristian doctrine that hath caused vs to accouÌ„t that Reuelations 18.4 Go out of her my people that ye be not pertakers in her sins and that yee receiue not of her plagues directly spoken to vs concerning your Romish Synagogue and religioÌ„ And therfore is it that we haue so seperated our selues from you as we haue because we find that you are apostataes long haue bene from the ancient Catholicke Church of Christ and from the truly coÌ„mended ancient Roman Church it selfe with whom we cannot growe in common vnlesse we had forsaken your fellowship And this kinde of seperation of our selues from you we know was more necessarie and is more coÌ„mendable then al the seperation of Heremites or any other of your caged birdes howsoeuer you could haue allowed that better then this of ours But you would seeme to haue bound vs to haue continued with you because that we receiued many of vs baptisme at your hands What I trust you are not so meane a diuine as to thinke it alwaies best for men to continue communion with them in all things that haue baptised them You know I am sure that the Arrian heretickes their heresie spreading it selfe so broad as it did and continuing diuers 100 yeares and other heretiques as well as they baptised many and yet I hope you wil not thinke that they might not after forsake their heresies to turne to the truth You know many did forsake them and came to the trueth yet it was counted an heresie to baptise them againe The better yet to shew that we should not haue departed from you you tel vs that you haue continued without adding and diminishing in that doctrine which was taught by the Apostles first and since from hand to hand in all integrity hath bene by the succession of faithful pastors conueighed downe vnto you and so we had both baptisme and all our other spirituall foode with you These are but wordes the euidence of the thing is to the contrary as I haue sufficiently made demonstration before Proue this indeed and we will repent vs of our departing from you most ioifully willingly wil wee ioyne with you againe I like very well your counsell that euery good Christian should fully resolue and determine to serue God and to liue and die in the Catholicke faith but then I adde that he had need well and throughlie to bee resolued what and which is that true Catholicke Faith For his direction in this behalfe how to discerne which is the right way to heauen and which not and consequentlie which is the true catholicke faith which is not you teach him that when there is any question put as touching life then the common way as Christ doeth say Mat. 7. doeth lead to perdition and the narrow to saluation but in religion it is contrary whereunto you saie Dauid alluded Psal 24. saying shew me thy waies O Lorde and teach me thy pathes by waies meaning religion and by pathes maners Where learned you this diuinity If you looke vpon Christs