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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A06347	An excellent and plaine discourse of the church, whereby the godlie may knowe and discerne the true Church, from the Romish Church, and all other false and counterfet churches, as well for matters of doctrine, as discipline, &c. Written in Frenche by M. Bartrand de Loque, a godlie minister of Dolphenine. And faithfully translated into English, by M.T.W. Seene and allowed; Traité de l'eglise. English	Loque, Bertrand de.; T. W. (Thomas Wilcox), 1549?-1608.	1582 (1582)	STC 16813; ESTC S103377	172,896	422

saying note him by a letter and haue no companie with him that hee may bee ashamed Also speaking of the incestuous person 1. Cor. 5. 5. I haue determined saith he that hee shoulde bee deliuered to Satan for the destruction of the fleshe that the spirite may bee saued in the day of the Lord Iesus These three ends are very largely laid out and at length discoursed vpon in the fourth booke of M. Caluines Institution cap. 12. Sect. 5. Calu. lib. 4. Inst cap. 12. sect 5. Wherof the summe is that in corrections and censures men must regarde and looke to three ends that is to say the glorie of God the edification of the Churche and the repentance and conuersion of sinners The fift consideration is that men in the reprehensions and censures of the Church looke well to this that they haue not such cōsideration regard or respect to the outward appearance and shewe of mens persons that they tread the little ones or poore people vnder their feete and support ayde and hearten the great and rich Deut. 10. 17. Gala. 3.28 For as God accepteth no mans person and in the Church there is neither Iewe nor grecian bonde nor free male nor female but all are one in Iesus Christe so the gouernours of the Church ought alwayes to walke with an vpright and equall foote without turning aside any maner of way in receiuing and allowing some and in refusing and disallowing others It is very true that corrections ought alwayes to bee tempered measured and accompanied with gentlenesse softnes and courtesie to the ende as Saint Paule saith that hee that is reproued or blamed 2 Cor. 2. ● may not be swallowed vp with ouer much heauinesse For otherwise wee shall turne the remedie into poyson and hurte And therefore the same Apostle doth exhorte vs Gal. 6.1 That wee should restore with the spirite of meekenesse such as be fallen into or ouertaken with some fault 1. Tim. 5.12 And againe Rebuke not saith hee an Elder vnreuerently but admonishe or exhort him as a father the young men as brethren the elder women as mothers the younger as sisters with all purenesse and chastitie Wee must therefore moderate with gentlenesse and meekenesse the rigour or hardnesse of the discipline least we hurt rather then profite But so farre off is it that they ought to spare any man that the corrections must be equally and indifferently applied and administred to all them which shall haue neede thereof whether they be men or women whether they bee great or small whether they be masters or seruants whether they bee Gentlemen or of the common sort Wee knowe with what earnestnesse and heate Chrysostome was angrie against the Pastours in his time who for feare of great and rich men durst not reiect or put from the supper any of them when they offred them selues thereto not before they were admitted thereto Chryso hom 3. in Mat. The blood saith hee of these men shall bee required at your handes If you feare mortall men for their greatnesse and riches verily men shall mocke you but if so be that you feare the liuing God he will bring to passe that euen men themselues shall haue you in honour and estimation And those which are lifted vp to dignitie An admonition to great men not to reiect or despise the discipline ought not to refuse to submit themselues and to make them selues as it were subiect to the discipline and they ought not to refuse the corrections of their Pastours and Elders seeing that by this meanes the Lorde will set them againe vpon their feete after they are fallen There is I knowe not what manner of pride in manie whiche hindereth them from submitting them selues vnto the discipline There is besides I know not what manner of foolish and filthie shame whiche when it hath once seised or taken holde of them they loue rather to continue in their vices than to bee aduertised or admonished thereof to the end that they may keepe themselues there from But the Emperor Theodosius was better aduised and of a more godly minde For we reade that when Saint Ambrose had excommunicated him Ambr. lib. 1. epist 8. in oratio Theodosu by reason of much innocent blood which was spilt and shead at his commandement he tooke suche a censure in good part and so far off was it that hee was stubborne and selfe willed againste his Pastor and his Elders to recoyle backe againe or to with drawe himselfe from the Churche that on the other side approuing the same correction and censure hee vnclothed himselfe of his kingly ornaments and openly bewailing his sinne in the Churche hee did with teares gronings and sighes demaund and aske forgiuenesse thereof Certainly this is not in vaine that Iesus christ hath said to the pastors of his church Whatsoeuer yee shall bind or loose in earth shal be bound or loosed in heauen Mat. 18. 18. For thereby hee hath authorised his church in the vse of the keyes by the worde of God to condemne the peruerse stubborne and vngodly and by the same word to reconcile and receiue to mercie all true penitent sinners Which authoritie of the Churche is not restrained or hedged in to bee exercised and executed among the common people only but also vpon Lordes and Magistrates Whereupon it followeth that none can distract or withdrawe himselfe therefrom but hee renounceth and forsaketh the meane of his saluation The conclusion is this that seeing God hath ordeined correction and discipline to the end that wee should profite grow vp in his doctrine that we shoulde not be hardned in our sins but rather that they might be reproued to the end they might not ingender and worke in vs an vncurable rottennesse or infection It followeth that they which flie and refuse the admonitions and censures of the Church which are made and giuen them in the name of God refuse God himselfe despise their owne saluation Beholde this is that which wee haue heere to note and marke as touching the discipline of the Churche For concerning the lawes which shee may establishe and set vp according to the authoritie giuen her of GOD wee will speake thereof in the Chapter following The fifteene Chapter Whether it belong to the Church to make lawes and if she make some how farre the faithfull ought to obey her WHen the question is of the lawes of the Church wee knowe that som concerne the doctrine vnder which wee comprehende the Sacramentes also and other the discipline or pollicie and order that is to say the fashion and maner of doing The lawes which concerne doctrine touch the conscience and in the knowledge and practise of them standeth the seruice worship of God our own saluation Of this sort are al the points articles of doctrine conteined in the Scripture which we must beleeue and obserue without adding any thing thereto or diminishing therfrom in changing it

light is farre more excellent then the gift of Prophesie it selfe was in diuers who liued vnder the lawe 1. Thes 5.11 And also though wee are bounde to exhorte one another and to teach one another in the doctrine of godlinesse and the feare of God yet for all that the publike ministerie of the worde is not superfluous or vaine in the Churche For the selfe same God that hath commanded fathers to instruct their children and all vs to admonishe one an other hath also ordeyned the publike ministerie of the worde in the Church that it may bee there practised and exercised not for some fewe yeeres onely but euen vnto the ende of the worlde And thus muche touching the arguments of the aduersaries and such as set thē selues agāinst the ministerie of the Church Nowe let vs bring foorth our reasons to proue the contrarie The first reason is Iesus Christe hath commaunded that the Gospel should bee preached and the Sacraments administred in the Church vnto the ende of the worlde Then it followeth that the ministerie is alwayes requisite and necessarie in the Church I proue the Antecedent or former proposition by these wordes of Christ written in the last Chapter of Saint Matthewe Go and teach all nations Mat. 28.19.20 baptising them in the name of the father and of the sonne and of the holy ghost teaching thē to obserue whatsoeuer I haue commaunded you and behold I am with you vnto the worldes ende For after the commaundement to preache the worde and to administer Baptisme vnder which Sacrament the other also of the holy Supper is conteyned because the Disciples might doubt or feare their charge as being great in labour and harde to execute Iesus Christ addeth a promise of his assistaunce not for tenne or twentie yeeres onely but for alwayes euen vnto the ende of the worlde Wherein hee manifestly setteth out and declareth two thinges One that hee willeth and ordeineth that the ministerie bee exercised in the Churche not for one age onely but continually vnto the consummation and end of all thinges The other is that hee promiseth that although Satan subtillie deuise inuent and practise all that hee can to hinder the ministerie the work of Gods seruants and the tyrants by their practises and violences inforce thē selues to the vttermost of their power to ouerthrow to bring to naught the church of God yet hee will by his godly and heauenly power alwayes maintaine his truth in the worlde and preserue his Church therein by the ministerie and labour of his faithfull pastors The seconde reason Rom. 1● 17 The Apostle Saint Paul saith to the Romanes That faith commeth by hearing and hearing by the worde of God Whereby he declareth that God hath accustomed to plant faith in our heartes by the preaching of his worde It is true that the power of God is not tyed to this outwarde meane but that hee is able to beget faith in vs after some other fashion and by some other meane although it be to vs incomprehensible euen as it shall please him selfe but notwithstanding all this the ministerie of his word is the ordinary meane which hee vseth or serueth himselfe with to giue vs faith by so that they which will haue faith without the preaching and hearing of the worde doe as much as though they woulde liue without meates drinks which God hath ordeined for our bodilie life Now hereupon we take and frame our argument thus Faith is in all times and alwaies necessarie for men But faith is giuen vnto men from God by the ministerie of the worde Therefore it followeth that the ministerie of the worde is in all times and alwaies necessarie for men The third reason It is certaine that for as much as the Sacraments are ordeined by God to bee as it were seales of the worde to seale in our heartes that which is therein conteined alreadie that is to say the vnion fellowship and partaking which wee haue in Iesus Christe it followeth that where there is not the worde of God preached there wee cannot haue any Sacrament For as a seale is altogether vnprofitable yea is not allowed a seale vnlesse bee bound or set to some instrument or writing for the confirmation thereof euen so the Sacrament is altogether vnprofitable yea indeed is not a Sacrament if it be not ioyned with the worde of God preached to confirme the same vnto vs. Whereupon Saint Augustine hath sometimes saide Augu. sup Iohan. Hom. 13. Let the word bee ioyned to the Sacrament and there shal be made a Sacrament Of what worde speaketh hee verilie not of a worde mumbled vp murmured or whispered without vnderstanding ouer the Elements but of the worde of God preached to the faithfull receiued of them through faith as hee himselfe maketh it plaine wlien speaking of baptisme he addeth this is the word of faith which we preach by which baptisme is consecrated and hallowed 1. Cor. 11. ●● to haue power to make cleane Now from that which is aboue said we reason after this manner The administration of the holy Supper is alwayes necessarie in the Church euen vnto the end of the worlde for Iesus Christ hath commanded vs to celebrate it and by that meanes to preach or shewe foorth his death vntill his comming againe But the administration of the supper can not bee performed without the ministerie of the worde Therefore it followeth that the ministerie of the worde is alwayes necessarie in the Church The fourth reason Iesus Christ hath giuen and established the ministers of the worde Ephe. 14.11 for the worke of the ministerie till wee all meete together in the vnitie of faith and knowledge of the sonne of GOD vnto a perfect man and vnto the measure of the age of the fulnesse of Christ that is to say till that Christ be perfect in vs and haue in vs his ful grouth and increase But wee can not obtaine suche perfection vnto the ende of the worlde at what time GOD shall bee all in all For as Saint Paule saith Wee knowe in parte and wee prophesie in part But when that which is perfect is come 2. Cor. 13. 9.10 then that which is in part shal be abolished Wherefore it followeth that Iesus Christe hath giuen and placed the ministers of the worde for the woorke of the ministerie vntill the ende of the worlde and then God shall be all in all These reasons are sufficient for this present to teach and proue that the holy ministerie is continually requisite and necessarie in the Church as indeede the Lorde hath for our good saluation established the same to abide in all ages therein applying and framing himself to our weaknesse which is so great we being corrupted thorough sinne that without this means meet and agreeable to our nature we coulde not bee well instructed in the points of our saluation For if God should speake vnto vs in his maiestie wee coulde not at

Those which concerne the discipline are to bee referred to the order and honestie which ought to be kept in the church and cōsist in a maner fashion of doing altogether outward and these may a man call indifferent which a man may vse either well or euill of this sort are ordinaunces touching the places the times the seasons the houres set for preachings ministration of the Sacraments the celebration of marriages fasts publik praiers such like things yet notwithstanding this must be knowne that no man may appoint in the practise and perfourmance of these matters the seruice of God or our saluation neither must any man thinke that of themselues they concerne the conscience Nowe the difference and disputation that some moue and make in the Church touching this matter is not as concerning this laste kinde of Lawes apperteining only to the discipline or pollicie So euery one knoweth and cōfesseth that the church cannot want her pollicie order and that to the end shee may abide vnited and tyed together shee hath neede of certain outward bonds wherfore the church may without any difficulti or doubt make lawes apperteining only to the outwarde discipline and take them away or change them according as she shal iudge them to be expedient profitable hauing alwaies speciall respect to the times places and persons As for example the church may ordeine appoint some day of the week for publike praiers whether the prayers be ordinary or extraordinary the Churche also may chose a certaine day or a certaine houre to giue thankes vnto God when it shall haue pleased him to haue deliuered out of some greate daunger either the whole Churche or the Countrie or the Magistrate or some other members placed in authoritie the Churche also may publish a fast so often as necessitie and occasion shall require It may take order also that Baptisme be ministred at a certaine time after the preachings that the holy Supper be celebrated and ministred so often in a yeere and at those seasons which they shall iudge expedient and meete that the as kings or publishing of the banes of marriage shoulde bee as it were proclaimed or declared three seuerall Sundaies And lastly that the saide marriages should bee celebrated at the Sermons or preachings either in the morning or euening that the consistories for the maners of the people and the assemblie or company which haue care for the poore assemble and meete together so often in a moneth as shall bee found expedient and profitable Wherefore the Churche may establish these lawes and other such like which the faithful ought to obey to the ende that there may not be any disorder or any confusion among the people of God But the question is of lawes concerning doctrine and the Sacraments or els other lawes touching the discipline by which they woulde binde consciences inclose and comprehende therein simplie the seruice of God that is to say whether it belong to the Churche to make Lawes thereof or no The Romish Catholikes say they may and wee affirme the contrarie and these are their reasons following The first reasō is this The Church hath authoritie to teach wherefore she hath also authoritie to make lawes belonging to the doctrine or teaching But this argument may be ouerthrown in two wordes if we denie the cōsequence For these be matters very much differing to wit to haue authoritie to teache and to haue authoritie to make Lawes belonging to the doctrine Iesus Christe hath in deede giuen the first of these to his church but so hee hath not the seconde And as God hath expressely forbidden to add any thing vnto his law Deut. 4.2 12.32 so Iesus Christ hath cōmāded his disciples to teach only the doctrine which they had heard and receiued of him The second reason The church hath the vse of the keies can bind and loose absolue and excōmunicate Wherfore it followeth that shee hath also authorie to establishe lawes apperteining to the doctrine I answere in one worde that the consequēce is false as it was in the argument last before going for a Lorde or Ruler will in deed giue power and authoritie to his officers to absolue to condemne according to the lawes ordinances but yet it will not folow for al that that he giueth them power of thēselues to make new lawes ouer his people to iudge by them according to their own fantasie So Iesus Christ hath in deed giuen vnto his apostles disciples this power to binde to loose according to his lawes but this is ill concluded to say that therefore he hath giuē thē this power this authoritie of thēselues to make lawes to establishe them in his Church and thereby to binde mens consciences The third reason Iesus Christ hath said Mat. 23.2.3 The Scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses seat all therefore whatsoeuer they bid you obserue that obserue do Heb. 13.17 And the Author of the Epistle to the Hebrwes Obey thē that haue the ouersight of you and submit your selues to thē Wherfore it followeth that we ought to obey the Pastors of the Church in keeping and obseruing their lawes I answere that when wee are commanded to obey our Pastors this ought to be vnderstood so farre foorth as their commandements proceede and come out of Moses chaire that is to say out of the word of God For otherwise the Lord protesteth and openly witnesseth that hee is worshipped in vain when men set out and preach for doctrine the commandemēts of men Matth. 15.9 And he himself doth straightly cōmand vs earnestly to take heed beware of the leauen of the Pharises Saduces Touching which matter Mat. 16.6 August in Iohn Tracta 46. Cap. 10. let vs heare Sainte Augustine The Scribes saith hee and the Pharisees sitte in Moses seate doe that therefore which they shall shew vnto you For being set in the chaire or seate of Moses they teach the law of God and so God teacheth by them But if they would teach any thing of their owne heare them not and doe not that which they will say for they seek their owne profite and gaine and not Christes profite In summe then if the Churche make ordeine for vs commaundements drawen and taken from the word of god it is our duetie to receiue them and to yeelde our selues obedient thereto otherwise not For it is not the Churches dutie to goe beyond the boundes of Gods worde in making lawes of her owne head and authoritie inuenting new fashions and maners to serue God by And the rule of our obedience ought alwaies to be the very selfe same worde of God as Cornelius saide vnto Saint Peter Acts. 10.33 Now are we al heere present before God to heare all thinges which are commaunded thee of God The fourth reason wee must obey the voice of the Churche Mat. 18.17 Luke 10.16 as wee haue a commandement giuen vs

alone which can make and establish such lawes The third reason Lawes concerning doctrine and such as binde mens consciences ought to bee vnto vs a testimony pledge of the wil of God But God alone by his word can giue vnto vs this testimony and at no hand or by no meanes men as of them selues Isaiah 40.13 c. Rom. 11.34 For who hath instructed the spirite of the Lord or was his Counsellor or taught him as the scripture saith It followeth thē that God alone may make establish lawes concerning doctrine and which shal serue to binde mens cōsciēces The fourth reason If it belong to the Church to make lawes concerning doctrine the seruice of god this must needs be that she hath receiued the prerogatiue and authoritie from God him self for mē haue not here in their life any power so to doe But so it is that the Church hath not receiued from God this prerogatiue authoritie For cōtrariwise God hath expresly plainly forbidden them to ioyne or adde any thing to his lawe Deut. 4.2.12.32 Wherefore it followeth that it doeth not apperteine to her to make lawes touching doctrine and the seruice of God The fift reason It is necessary that they which make lawes shoulde haue Lordship rule authoritie ouer thē to whom they giue those lawes But the church hath no Lordship or rule ouer the consciences of the faithful 1. Pet. 5.3 for S. Peter speketh with a loud voice plainly That the Pastors Bishops haue not any Lordshippe ouer the Lordes inheritance that is to say ouer the faithful of whō the church is composed made 2. Cor. 1.4 And S. Paul plainly protesteth touching himself that hee hath not any dominion ouer the faith of the Corinthians Wherefore it followeth that the Church may not make or establish lawes to binde the consciences of faithfull people Mat. 15.9 The sixt reason The Lorde saieth In vaine they worship mee teaching for doctrine mens precepts and commaundements 1. Tim. 4.1 c. And S. Paul calleth lawes traditiōs touching forbidding of marriage and vse of meats the doctrine of Deuils Collos 2.16.18 Also he saieth Let no man condemne you in meate and drinke or in respect of an holy day c. Let no mā at his pleasure beare rule ouer you by humblenes of minde and worshipping of Angels By these sentences it is most plaine and euident that the Church ought not nor may not establish any such lawes to binde tye or restraine mens consciences The seuenth reason The lawes which take away from vs that Christian libertie which Christ hath gotten and purchased for vs ought not in any case to be established or tollerated For S. Paule exhorteth vs Galat. 5.1 to stande fast in the libertie wherewith Christ hath made vs free and that we should not be intangled againe with the yoke of bondage But the lawes giuen by men not from God him selfe touching matters which are commended vnto vs with an opinion of necessitie and which are required of vs as workes meritorious or as the seruice of God take away from vs the christian libertie and freedome which Christe hath purchased for vs of this sort are the lawes made touching the obseruation and keeping of Lent celebration or keeping holy of certaine feasts not to eate fleshe vpon Friday Saturday and certaine other dayes and such like things Wherfore it foloweth that such lawes ought not in any case to be established set vp tollerated or borne withall But wee wil make or put an ende to this Chapter with two sentences which make altogether for vs are altogether againste the Romishe Catholikes Tho. Aqu●● in summae part 3. in addititio 46. Artic 6 The one is Thomas of Aquine his owne saying thus Because that the Church is founded alreadie and grounded in the faith and in the sacraments it doth not belong to the Ministers of the Churche to make newe Articles of faith or newe Sacraments or to take away those which are alreadie made and established For this is the excellencie and power which belongeth onely vnto Iesus Christe who is the foūdation of the church The other sentēce is of Alphōsus de Castro his own conteining these wordes Alphons de Cast aduers omnes haere lib. 1. cap. 8. It may not at any hand bee either done or suffered that the Church should establishe a newe article of faith but that which was in former time the true faith and which notwithstanding was hidden from vs the Church bringeth to passe by her testimonie and witnes that the same is made knowne vnto vs. And the Abbot is very much deceiued in the decretals expounding the chapter which beginneth Cum Christus that is when Christ c. in the title of Heretikes when he saith that the Pope may make newe articles of faith Hee knew not nor vnderstood not what it was which hee spake and therefore erred was deceiued as a Shoomaker should be if hee woulde take vpon him some matter ouer and besides his occupation THE XVI CHAP. Of the afflictions and persecutions of the Church THere are diuers whiche woulde fayne haue a Church of Sugar or of veluet as you would say that is to say that in seruing God they might bee exempted from all afflictions Suche were Zebedeus his sonnes Iames and Iohn who beeing couetous and greedie of worldlie honours and desiring to liue at their ease and rest demaunded of Iesus Christe Mark 10. 35. c. That hee woulde graunt vnto them to sit in his glory the one at his right hande and the other at his left But the scripture teacheth vs altogether the contrarie that is to say that so long as wee haue to walke heere belowe it standeth vs in hand to battell or fight yea to passe thorowe the thornes and to bee tormented by the malice of the Diuell and wicked men his instruments yea so much the more by howe much we shall indeuour and labour sincerely to serue God Which thing also Iesus Christe hath well and sufficiently declared to the abouesaide sonnes of Zebedeus when he answered them Mark 10. 38 Yee knowe not what yee aske Can yee drinke of the Cup that I shall drinke of bee baptized with the baptisme wherewith I shal be baptized Meaning thereby that the common state and condition of Christians is this that they shoulde bee exercised in this world by the crosse tribulations before that they can be crowned And this is the cause wherefore the church is called militant or warfaring so long as it is heere belowe on the earth euen as wee haue seene and hearde in the first Chapter And for this very selfe same cause also Mark 4.36 c. it is compared to a little ship altogether tossed vp and downe in the midst of the billowes or surges and of the tempests of the Sea also Ps 129.3 to grounde continually ploughed ouer and thorowe whiche