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A11528 A trewe mirrour or glase wherin we maye beholde the wofull state of thys our realme of Englande set forth in a dialogue or communicacion betwene Eusebius and Theophilus. Saunders, Laurence, d. 1555, attributed author. 1556 (1556) STC 21777; ESTC S100967 20,497 40

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to oxforde thys the frydaye and the saterdaye folowyng were the .iii. prysoners called forth before them and appointed to dispute the monday tuesdaye and weddensdaye folowyng and beefore that I dare saye they knewe of no disputacion and assone as the disputacion was appointed Immediatly were they separated and coulde not conferre nor talke together theyr owne bokes that they had laboured and there commun places that they had gathered was all taken from them when they came firste to pryson and when they shoulde come foorthe to dispute they were brought wyth bylles and glayues as if they should haue gone to hāging and there must one of thē alone aunswere some tymes .vi. speaking to hym at one time and euer would they crye vpon him to cutte short for the tyme was spent And whē as it came to master Rydleys torne he had prouided hys supposition thinkynge to haue reade it but they woulde not suffer hym And yet he alledged for himself the order of the scoles and that al that litel time he had bestowed in deuising the same wherein he mynded to haue declared the substaunce of his assercion of hys fayth and beleue touching that matter then in question but he coulde not be suffred in any wise and sondry tymes in hys talke they woulde take hym at aduauntage and when he woulde open hys meaninge hys tale could not be heard of the audiēce but yet there were that noted hys woordes Nowe I praye you what indifferency is thys a man wythout study wythout bokes without cōference with other and almost without hearing shal dispute for hys lyfe And they so many clappyng at one tyme agaynst one poore man alas it was a grefe And yet for all thys I warrant you they be not hasty in puttyng forth the disputations in print as much as they bragge I dare say they wyl neuer put them forth E. But is thys true that ye haue now sayd in thys matter E. Yea as trewe as god lyueth And I dare saye If ye talke with the doctours themselues that disputed agaynst them they can deny none of al thys that I haue said wel they may couler it with some other thyng but assuredly they cannot alter it it is so openly knowen E. Well brother Theophilus cōsider that whē men be in authorite and haue the gouernaūce In theyr hand some what they will doe And consider also that in kynge Edwardes tyme your doctours dealte in lyke case with our learned men And therfore blame thē not though they now show a litell of the same curtesy againe T. Nay then marke what I wil saye vnto you brother Eusebius And tell me whether the case bee lyke In king Edwardes tyme there was appoynted a disputaciō wherin were .iii. of your learned against one of ours they had leysure as muche as they woulde axe they were not taken frō theyr bokes neither put in pryson they mought cōferre wyth whō they would and go whether they would they were not so much as checkte for defendyng their opinion Another tyme also I doe remember wel that before Kyng Edward died I was present at the disputacion In oxford where one Grene waye a bacheler of diuinitie and the vice presydēt of Corporis Christi Colledge aunswered and hys question was whether Christes natural body mought be in more places then one there was one of the opponentes that openlye professed hymselfe to bee of a contrarie mynd and so disputed and yet I neuer knewe so much as one euil woorde spoken to hym Note nowe the tiranny that is vsed of the one syde whyche Chryst neuer taught And marke there great gētlenes agayne of the other syde And this were inough almost to perswade an honest heart E. Surely brother Theophi I woulde Charitie mought rule thys matter for I doe verely beeleue that if wyth loue and frendeshyp they dyd gentely commen together of these matters they should much rather agree then by suche proude disputations or rather scoldyng and brawling one with another For to what purpose serueth thys cankored malice but the one to seke the others destruction And while we goe about mischeffe to eche other there be that wyl destroye vs both and then we haue spun a fayer threde T. In dede your gathering standeth with good reason and not without good authoryte of the holy Scriptures For thys sayeth the Lord Iesus Euery kyngdome within it selfe deuydede shal be destroied Math. 12 Luke 11. Gala. 5. and euery house deuided with in it selfe shall not stande And Saincte Paule sayeth also if ye bite one another take hede lest ye be consumed one of an other E. I praye you brother The. In what place is it the Christ saith Euery kyngdome deuided wythin it selfe shall be destroyed E. In the .12 Chapter of Mathes gospel and in the .11 of Luke likewise E. Now surely I am affrayed lest those wordes are to trewe and lest we shal haue to much experiēce of the same T. Wel brother Euse You nede not care for you are a good Catholyke man and therefore no harme can happen to you for the game goeth on your syde As for me ye know I am halfe suspected and more And therefore I loke when I shal be called forth corānobis and so to the fyer a cruell death I tell you E. Wil ye beleue me brother Theophi As god helpe me I am none of those that desireth the hurt of my neybour and I tel you truth I lyke thys religion the worsse for there crueltie For vndoutedly If the matter were in my hande there shoulde none be put to death except he would obstinatly rebell by commocions or otherwyse moleste a whole commen wealth as for hys conscyence let hym discharge that betwene God and hym selfe he should chose for me for any trouble I would worke him for me thinkes it standes not with Charitie 1. Cor. 1● T. I mistrust you not brother Euse I know you to wel and like you the better And in dede sainct Paul sayth If I had fayth that I could moue mountaynes out of there places If I had not loue I am nothyng And Chryste hym selfe saieth also Iohn 14 by thys shal al men knowe that ye are my disciples yf ye loue one another the which loue springeth from a faith vnfained in the promise of god and causeth good workes to procede as the frutes come of the buddinges of the tree E. What bee those good workes ye meane T. Mary callyng vpon the name of the lyuing god by diligent feruent and continual prayer in watchyng the deuill that neyther by the lust of thys fleshe neyther yet by ambicion and coueteousnes of thys wycked world or by any other meanes he should ouercome vs and subdue vs vnto synne And therfore as we feel our selues prone and apte to euil so stil to mortifie these members of ours by fastynge and prayer with such like Godly exercises to visete and comforte our nedy neybours and so forth E. But I pray you now
were the better in thys case I am sure T. I must nedes graunt Eusebius that a great number were at that poynte and I must confesse also that libertye had caused many men to waxe wylde the whiche woulde haue been tamed by good lawes right well and were in maner prouided If Satan had not enuied the profit therof But yet they say there can be neuer a better wheras there is neuer a good but as touchyng dyet doutlesse I thynke there were some good men of both sides I meane suche men as wyth good moderacion vsed gods creatures for there necessitie and not for theyr wanton lust And so likewise in other outward obseruaunces I suppose there be of both sides that meane wel and wyshe well vnto all men and I doe not thynke the contrarye but if there were charitie in oure heartes we could fynd in our heartes to loue one another we should agree and prosper well inough but Sathan hath sowed the seade of discorde among vs and we cannot loue eche other but wyth moste spite that may be we persecute one another to destruccion and thys wylbe our own confusion E. Yea Theophilus that is in dede a lamentable thyng and the greatest grefe to me that you beyng an honest man and I am I hope not of the worst sort of men for my hartye desier is that all moughte be well thys therfore greueth me that we should be of diuers opinions and not of one mynd specially in religiō and therefore dyd I couet to talke wyth you to th ende I moughte if I coulde bryng you to the same mynd I am my selfe and to say the trueth I vnderstande not so great contrauersye but as you sayd with charite and frendly debating the matter we shal agree and so would I wyshe all men to doe for I lyke not thys crueltye assuredly and therfore let me understande wherein we vary we beleue both al the Articles of the Christen fayth what causeth the contrauersye therefore T. I wyll tell you Eusebius the name of the catholyke churche the holy churche the vniuersall churche that marreth altogether Euse What man say not so god forbydde but Chryst shoulde haue a churche heare in earth T. loe syr howe sone ye misunderstande me I remember now that when master Latymer beganne fyrst to preache he taughte the people to putte theyr hole confydence in Iesus Chryst and that he only was our redempcion and that there was no health in any other no not in the blessed virgyn Mary sayeth he I wil not say but she was the most excellent woman vpō earth and sauoured altogether of Chryst as the bagge wherein saffron hath been smelleth altogether of saffrō yet is not the bagge the saffron it selfe and so was not she the saueoure selfe thoughe she bare hym that was saueour of the world to as many as beleued in hym thys wyth more Eloquent wordes did he set forth as he was a mā passing al other for that purpose now what sayd the people of thys Forsouth that he had despysed our lady and had made her no better then a saffrō bagge I bryng thys tale by the way nowe not so much for that you mistoke me in thys as to put you in remembraunce of the great foly that is in many now a daies whiche when they heare and peraduenture vnderstande not the matter yet wyll they goe and tell a whole storye and euer they wyll make the wurste of it thys it is almoste in euery commen matter betwene neyghboure and neyghbour there be such a sort of peace breakers that delite in nothing so much as in telling of newes and thus setteth one neyghboure agaynst another all whiche encreaseth oure damage E. But dyd I then misunderstande you Theophilus Theo Yea brother Eusebius but thankes be to god there can be no hurt in that I speake all thys for no other thyng but that you should note the great mischeffe that insueth of those flatterers whyche gooe flerynge to picke thanke and tell all they heare and more to and that to woorke mischefe but this is no suche matter for althoughe you toke me that I sayed that Chrystes churche or the holy catholyke churche marred altogether yet shall we debate the matter before we goe so that we shall vnderstande one another but these men seake no suche thing that I spake of before E. But then I pray you let me vnderstande your meaning for so I toke it in dede as for suche peace breakers as ye spake of I knowe and coulde declare howe by suche of a sparcle was made a whole fyer inough to haue set a whole contree on a heate but let that passe and goe forth I pray you T. Thus I sayed Eusebius that the name of the holye catholyke churche the vniuersall churche or of Chrystes churche if ye wyll that dooeth marre altogether Eusebius Why so Theophilus for thys cause that they whyche pretende to bee Christes church are nothing lesse then Christes in dede Eusebius doe ye thinke so Theophilus yea and I wil proue it so to that you shal vnderstande that your selfe Eusebius say on I pray you and I wil geue eare Theophilus this know ye first then that in the .24 Chapter of Saincte Mathewes gospell Chryst gaue hys disciples thys warnyng and sayed take hede for many shal come in my name saye there are Christes be not deceaued c. Nowe ye muste vnderstād that Christus is as much to say as annointed so that many shall come in Chrystes name and say they be the annoynted marke wel this warning and take good hede vnto it E. Well forth yet I doe vnderstande you wel thys farre T. Verye well then note thys also that as the Lorde Iesus gaue thys warning a litel before hys death so dyd Saincte Paull also a greate whyle after Chryst had suffred cal the Bishops and elders of Ephesus together and taking hys leaue as one that should see them no more gaue them also thys warning and sayed take hede vnto your selues and to the flocke wherof ye haue charge for after my departyng shall enter in among you greuous wolues Acte ●0 which shal not spare the flocke c. Marke well now that Christe the Lord and hys Apostles lykewyse howe diligently and ernestly they gaue vs warninge to take hede and beware of deceauers and false Prophetes yea as it were almoste theyr laste woordes whyche of all other for the moste parte are to be noted and were it not reason we dyd take hede Euse Yes doutlesse we muste and ought to take hede or els we shal be deceaued But nowe saye oure Preachers that we oughte to take hede of you for of you were these woordes spoken T. Naye then marke Sainct Paules wordes agayne for he sayeth after my departing c. And they shal be men that shall ryse euen of your own selues sayeth he Iohn 2. And Saincte Iohn in hys Epistles sayeth also that euen then in hys tyme were