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we_o believe_v any_o indifferent_a reader_n will_v discern_v be_v distinct_a thing_n as_o the_o parliament_n also_o in_o pass_v they_o distinguish_v they_o and_o therefore_o you_o shall_v not_o have_v deal_v so_o disingenious_o with_o we_o as_o to_o have_v account_v the_o discourse_n impertinent_a which_o be_v necessary_a for_o your_o information_n if_o you_o be_v ignorant_a if_o you_o know_v these_o order_n and_o ordinance_n will_v yet_o have_v this_o discourse_n impertinent_a notwithstanding_o your_o jerk_v we_o for_o call_v ourselves_o the_o first_o classis_fw-la within_o the_o province_n of_o lancaster_n which_o term_n we_o tell_v you_o we_o give_v not_o to_o ourselves_o till_o the_o parliament_n have_v first_o give_v they_o we_o we_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o reader_n what_o to_o judge_v of_o it_o nine_o here_o be_v also_o another_o strange_a assertion_n when_o you_o say_v it_o be_v no_o question_n of_o you_o whether_o our_o government_n be_v establish_v by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o 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that_o yet_o be_v also_o null_a and_o void_a if_o that_o we_o have_v act_v on_o be_v that_o they_o be_v not_o thereby_o sufficient_o secure_v against_o the_o danger_n of_o a_o praemunire_n yet_o you_o dare_v tell_v we_o of_o this_o once_o and_o again_o and_o yet_o also_o it_o be_v no_o question_n of_o you_o whether_o our_o church-government_n be_v establish_v by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n but_o how_o contradictory_n these_o thing_n be_v one_o unto_o another_o we_o leave_v it_o to_o be_v judge_v of_o as_o touch_v our_o start_v more_o doubt_n than_o as_o you_o say_v we_o can_v assoyl_v we_o shall_v have_v leisure_n hereafter_o to_o examine_v in_o the_o place_n where_o you_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o encounter_v we_o and_o now_o shall_v follow_v you_o in_o the_o way_n you_o have_v choose_v to_o go_v in_o and_o so_o we_o come_v unto_o the_o next_o the_o gentleman_n paper_n sect._n ii_o to_o that_o mistake_v you_o charge_v we_o withal_o in_o the_o preface_n of_o our_o paper_n concern_v the_o title_n of_o you_o we_o answer_v we_o find_v in_o the_o close_a of_o that_o your_o â—aper_n these_o word_n this_o presentation_n be_v approve_v by_o this_o provincial_a assembly_n tho._n johnson_n moderator_n edw._n gee_o scribe_n so_o it_o be_v approve_v by_o the_o provincial_a assembly_n under_o that_o title_n of_o a_o presentation_n as_o we_o call_v it_o cop_z in_o all_o the_o copy_n we_o have_v see_v but_o this_o as_o you_o say_v may_v be_v the_o mistake_n of_o your_o scribe_n and_o not_o to_o be_v insist_v on_o it_o be_v of_o great_a weight_n and_o moment_n you_o say_v to_o take_v notice_n of_o what_o we_o publish_v as_o our_o sense_n scribe_n and_o apprehension_n of_o it_o viz._n the_o matter_n contain_v in_o your_o paper_n not_o rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n or_o determination_n of_o any_o general_a council_n contrary_a thereto_o if_o any_o such_o shall_v be_v much_o less_o to_o one_o of_o your_o provincial_a assembly_n etc._n etc._n and_o here_o you_o tell_v we_o of_o a_o public_a and_o authoritative_a judgement_n that_o be_v in_o council_n concern_v matter_n of_o doctrine_n and_o discipline_n though_o tie_v to_o the_o rule_n of_o god_n word_n in_o such_o proceed_n as_o judge_n to_o the_o law_n to_o which_o we_o ought_v to_o be_v subject_a and_o how_o far_o be_v that_o viz._n they_o have_v the_o power_n of_o expound_v and_o explain_v the_o difficult_a place_n of_o scripture_n as_o the_o judge_n have_v of_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o law_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n we_o ought_v to_o subject_a to_o the_o sense_n and_o determination_n of_o a_o general_a council_n and_o therefore_o you_o say_v questionless_a if_o in_o the_o time_n of_o s._n augustine_n who_o be_v no_o conâ—emner_n of_o synod_n and_o council_n any_o in_o this_o sense_n have_v declare_v that_o they_o will_v not_o have_v submit_v their_o apprehension_n to_o their_o judgement_n he_o will_v have_v cry_v out_o against_o they_o as_o well_o as_o against_o the_o donatist_n o_o impudentem_fw-la 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of_o it_o as_o far_o as_o it_o be_v plain_a to_o we_o which_o word_n you_o omit_v deal_v not_o fair_o with_o we_o and_o which_o word_n carry_v another_o sense_n with_o they_o for_o so_o far_o as_o the_o matter_n contain_v in_o your_o paper_n be_v plain_a to_o we_o we_o close_v and_o join_v with_o you_o be_v as_o we_o explain_v ourselves_o afterward_o so_o full_o warrant_v thereto_o by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o constant_a practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n that_o therein_o so_o far_o as_o it_o be_v make_v thus_o plain_a unto_o we_o we_o shall_v not_o submit_v our_o apprehension_n to_o the_o judgement_n of_o a_o general_a council_n but_o by_o this_o aposiopesis_fw-la of_o you_o you_o will_v make_v the_o world_n believe_v we_o refuse_v to_o submit_v our_o judgement_n to_o the_o judgement_n of_o a_o general_a council_n not_o only_o touch_v matter_n of_o faith_n and_o such_o article_n of_o religion_n which_o be_v plain_o warrant_v by_o god_n word_n and_o constant_a practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n but_o also_o touch_v matter_n which_o be_v not_o so_o plain_o set_v forth_o in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n touch_v which_o last_o we_o prosess_v our_o willing_a submission_n to_o the_o judgement_n of_o a_o general_a council_n and_o be_v glad_a to_o hear_v you_o of_o the_o same_o mind_n though_o we_o fear_v as_o we_o shall_v hear_v you_o declare_v anon_o you_o will_v hardly_o grant_v that_o to_o a_o general_a council_n which_o you_o seem_v to_o grant_v to_o your_o provincial_n in_o which_o we_o dissent_v from_o you_o as_o we_o have_v say_v the_o animadversion_n of_o the_o class_n upon_o it_o first_o we_o perceive_v you_o be_v resolve_v to_o stick_v to_o what_o you_o have_v once_o say_v though_o it_o be_v only_o the_o take_a advantage_n of_o some_o literal_a mistake_n and_o which_o in_o our_o answer_n we_o have_v tell_v you_o be_v none_o of_o we_o when_o you_o call_v our_o paper_n by_o the_o title_n of_o a_o presentation_n but_o impute_v it_o to_o the_o scribe_n speak_v indefinite_o which_o may_v be_v you_o as_o well_o as_o we_o though_o in_o your_o print_a copy_n you_o will_v have_v we_o to_o say_v what_o we_o do_v not_o that_o it_o be_v the_o mistake_n of_o our_o scribe_n and_o however_o you_o say_v now_o that_o in_o all_o the_o copy_n which_o you_o have_v see_v which_o imply_v many_o you_o find_v in_o the_o close_a of_o that_o our_o paper_n these_o word_n this_o presentation_n be_v approve_v by_o this_o provincial_a assembly_n thomas_n johnson_n moderator_n edward_n gee_o scribe_n yet_o we_o believe_v that_o if_o you_o be_v put_v upon_o the_o proof_n it_o will_v be_v hard_a for_o you_o to_o produce_v one_o copy_n that_o be_v give_v forth_o by_o the_o class_n and_o write_v by_o our_o scribe_n where_o you_o find_v our_o paper_n approve_v by_o the_o provincial_a
the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n government_n office_n and_o ordinance_n be_v first_o give_v to_o the_o universal_a visible_a church_n before_o they_o be_v give_v to_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a church_n although_o it_o be_v true_a also_o that_o he_o who_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n must_v also_o be_v a_o member_n of_o some_o particular_a church_n under_o the_o discipline_n and_o government_n thereof_o but_o we_o do_v not_o argue_v from_o what_o make_v you_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n to_o prove_v you_o to_o be_v member_n of_o some_o one_o or_o other_o of_o our_o particular_a church_n and_o so_o to_o be_v under_o the_o government_n of_o this_o class_n this_o we_o prove_v from_o individuate_a circumstance_n because_o within_o the_o bound_n of_o our_o association_n appoint_v by_o authority_n of_o parliament_n and_o other_o circumstance_n and_o so_o we_o do_v not_o say_v that_o except_o man_n renounce_v christianity_n and_o their_o baptism_n they_o be_v subject_a to_o our_o government_n but_o we_o say_v we_o look_v upon_o all_o those_o within_o the_o bound_n of_o our_o association_n who_o have_v not_o renounce_v christianity_n and_o their_o baptism_n of_o which_o sort_n we_o know_v not_o any_o among_o we_o as_o person_n we_o have_v a_o inspection_n over_o and_o appoint_v by_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n to_o be_v subject_a to_o our_o government_n which_o yet_o we_o exercise_v towards_o all_o according_a to_o those_o rule_n and_o that_o moderation_n that_o be_v prescribe_v in_o the_o form_n of_o church_n government_n and_o thus_o we_o have_v answer_v all_o that_o you_o have_v here_o present_v to_o take_v off_o our_o government_n from_o its_o establishment_n by_o the_o civil_a sanction_n for_o it_o be_v not_o your_o come_n over_o again_o with_o the_o act_n of_o 1650._o already_o answer_v and_o bid_v we_o to_o read_v it_o nor_o your_o bid_v we_o to_o read_v the_o close_a of_o the_o eleven_o section_n of_o the_o humble_a advice_n and_o not_o prove_v any_o thing_n in_o the_o form_n of_o church_n government_n to_o be_v contrary_a to_o it_o that_o will_v prove_v either_o a_o express_a or_o implicit_a repeal_n though_o press_v with_o never_o so_o much_o vehemency_n of_o expression_n that_o only_o proclaim_v your_o heat_n and_o earnest_a desire_n to_o have_v it_o so_o and_o how_o glad_o you_o will_v be_v believe_v upon_o your_o word_n and_o confidence_n in_o this_o matter_n when_o you_o want_v further_a argument_n to_o make_v out_o what_o you_o say_v the_o gentleman_n paper_n sect._n v._n and_o thus_o have_v prove_v your_o presbyterian_a government_n to_o have_v the_o civil_a sanction_n just_a thus_o and_o no_o otherwise_o you_o come_v now_o to_o answer_v more_o particular_o to_o that_o which_o follow_v and_o first_o you_o explicate_v what_o be_v before_o dark_a unto_o we_o who_o be_v mean_v by_o the_o many_o person_n of_o all_o sort_n that_o be_v member_n of_o congregation_n etc._n etc._n and_o you_o tell_v we_o all_o person_n be_v within_o your_o verge_n none_o without_o except_o they_o will_v renounce_v christianity_n and_o their_o baptism_n but_o be_v within_o the_o verge_n of_o your_o presbyterian_a government_n their_o not_o associate_a with_o you_o in_o regard_n of_o government_n do_v not_o exempt_v they_o from_o censure_n by_o it_o etc._n etc._n independent_o anabaptist_n and_o other_o all_o be_v subject_a and_o censure_v by_o your_o government_n if_o they_o shall_v censurable_a be_v such_o offender_n as_o by_o the_o rule_n thereof_o be_v just_o censurable_a it_o be_v not_o a_o matter_n arbitrary_a for_o private_a person_n at_o their_o own_o will_n and_o pleasure_n to_o exempt_v themselves_o from_o under_o that_o ecclesiastical_a government_n that_o be_v settle_v by_o authority_n here_o gentleman_n you_o may_v do_v well_o to_o consider_v whether_o you_o do_v not_o subject_v yourselves_o to_o the_o contempt_n and_o scorn_n of_o all_o other_o party_n who_o conceit_n they_o have_v as_o full_a power_n by_o etc._n their_o rule_n of_o church_n discipline_n to_o censure_v you_o as_o you_o have_v they_o jam_fw-la sumus_fw-la ergo_fw-la pares_fw-la yet_o they_o dare_v not_o censure_n or_o punish_v any_o out_o of_o their_o church_n membership_n contrary_a to_o the_o several_a act_n make_v for_o toleration_n to_o the_o act_n of_o the_o 27._o september_n 1650._o and_o to_o the_o express_a article_n in_o the_o humble_a advice_n above_o mention_v if_o you_o be_v so_o bold_a we_o have_v tell_v you_o before_o and_o tell_v you_o again_o a_o ordinance_n of_o lord_n and_o commons_o for_o settle_v of_o your_o fresbyterian_a government_n will_v be_v no_o sufficient_a plea_n for_o your_o act_n contrary_a to_o the_o know_a law_n since_o make_v but_o will_v prove_v you_o contemner_n of_o all_o civil_a power_n and_o may_v run_v you_o upon_o a_o praemunire_n but_o here_o you_o seem_v offend_v at_o we_o for_o call_v presbytery_n a_o common_a fold_n what_o presbytery_n a_o know_a scripture_n expression_n 1_o tim._n 4._o and_o interpret_v by_o object_n sundry_a of_o the_o father_n as_o we_o do_v as_o have_v be_v before_o declare_v to_o be_v term_v a_o common_a fold_n you_o may_v have_v use_v a_o more_o civil_a expression_n what_o presbytery_n interpret_v by_o sundry_a of_o the_o father_n as_o you_o do_v how_o be_v that_o we_o shall_v tell_v you_o the_o father_n be_v different_a in_o the_o sense_n and_o interpretation_n answ_n of_o this_o word_n presbytery_n in_o the_o scripture_n expression_n 1_o tim._n 4._o the_o latin_a father_n general_o as_o hierome_n ambrose_n primasius_n anselm_n and_o other_o take_v this_o word_n presbytery_n for_o the_o function_n which_o timothy_n receive_v when_o he_o be_v make_v bishop_n or_o priest_n and_o thus_o calvin_n take_v it_o in_o his_o institutes_n quod_fw-la de_fw-la impositione_n manuum_fw-la presbyterii_fw-la dicitur_fw-la â—non_fw-la ità _fw-la accipio_fw-la quasi_fw-la paulus_n de_fw-la seniorum_fw-la fine_a collegio_fw-la loquatur_fw-la sedhoc_fw-la nomine_fw-la ordinationem_fw-la ipsam_fw-la intelligo_fw-la the_o greek_a father_n as_o ignatius_n chrysostome_n theodoret_n theophilact_fw-mi oecumenius_n and_o other_o and_o some_o few_o of_o the_o latin_n also_o take_v it_o for_o the_o company_n of_o presbyter_n i._n e._n bishop_n who_o lay_v hand_n on_o the_o new_a make_v bishop_n or_o priest_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n likewise_o in_o his_o comment_n upon_o this_o place_n it_o be_v interpret_v by_o calvin_n say_v presbyterium_fw-la qui_fw-la hic_fw-la collectivum_fw-la nomen_fw-la esse_fw-la putant_fw-la pro_fw-la collegio_fw-la presbyterorum_fw-la positum_fw-la rectè_fw-la sâ—nâ—iunt_fw-la meo_fw-la judicio_fw-la although_o he_o be_v here_o as_o flat_a opposite_a to_o his_o former_a judgement_n as_o high_a noon_n be_v to_o midnight_n and_o we_o fear_v wander_v we_o shall_v find_v you_o as_o waver_a and_o unsettle_a in_o you_o when_o it_o come_v to_o scan_v for_o divers_a of_o the_o father_n you_o say_v interpret_v this_o word_n as_o you_o do_v and_o as_o you_o have_v before_o declare_v now_o how_o you_o interpret_v it_o and_o where_o to_o find_v this_o place_n where_o it_o be_v before_o declare_v that_o your_o interpretation_n agree_v with_o sundry_a of_o the_o father_n we_o have_v not_o yet_o discover_v indeed_o we_o find_v you_o quote_v dr_n usher_n that_o learned_a and_o reverend_a antiquary_n to_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n of_o synod_n and_o assembly_n and_o thereby_o you_o think_v he_o vindicate_v your_o assembly_n in_o our_o thought_n from_o all_o suspicion_n of_o novelty_n we_o find_v also_o by_o you_o out_o of_o he_o there_o quote_v certain_a father_n as_o first_o ignatius_n who_o by_o presbytery_n mention_v by_o paul_n 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o do_v understand_v the_o community_n of_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o presbyter_n or_o elder_n and_o for_o further_a proof_n tertullian_n be_v allege_v in_o his_o general_a apology_n for_o christian_n that_o old-beaten_a say_n by_o you_o and_o your_o party_n president_n probati_fw-la quique_fw-la seniores_fw-la etc._n etc._n now_o do_v these_o interpret_v as_o you_o do_v be_v presbytery_n such_o as_o you_o pretend_v to_o be_v establish_v by_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n and_o such_o as_o you_o stand_v for_o in_o your_o sense_n be_v it_o we_o say_v so_o understand_v by_o dr_n usher_n and_o do_v he_o bring_v in_o these_o father_n speak_v in_o this_o sense_n if_o we_o press_v you_o to_o stand_v to_o their_o opinion_n and_o sense_n you_o will_v run_v back_o how_o may_v you_o then_o for_o shame_n assert_v that_o their_o interpretation_n be_v the_o same_o with_o you_o dr_n usher_n judgement_n of_o assembly_n agree_v with_o you_o and_o his_o proposal_n of_o assembly_n be_v the_o same_o in_o substance_n with_o you_o who_o you_o quote_v you_o say_v as_o more_o likely_a to_o sway_v with_o we_o in_o case_n we_o do_v differ_v from_o you_o in_o this_o point_n and_o here_o these_o father_n be_v bring_v in_o give_v the_o same_o interpretation_n as_o you_o do_v will_v you_o thus_o confident_o assert_v
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scripture_n and_o that_o the_o word_n of_o god_n alone_o shall_v determine_v this_o controversy_n etc._n etc._n who_o can_v forbear_v laughter_n to_o see_v scripturist_n under_o the_o gospel_n as_o these_o under_o the_o law_n templum_fw-la domini_fw-la templum_fw-la domini_fw-la cry_v verbum_fw-la domini_fw-la verbum_fw-la domivi_fw-la nothing_o but_o scripture_n the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v there_o the_o only_a rule_n of_o faith_n and_o manner_n take_v to_o your_o bibles_n then_o and_o burn_v all_o other_o book_n as_o the_o anabaptist_n of_o old_a do_v who_o when_o they_o and_o their_o bibles_n be_v leave_v together_o what_o strange_a and_o fantastical_a opinion_n soever_o come_v into_o their_o brain_n their_o usual_a manner_n be_v to_o say_v the_o spirit_n teach_v it_o they_o as_o mr_n hooker_n in_o his_o preface_n to_o his_o eccles_n pol._n the_o determination_n of_o council_n and_o father_n and_o the_o church_n universal_a practice_n for_o matter_n of_o church_n government_n must_v 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the_o church_n as_o we_o have_v say_v where_o there_o be_v doubt_n or_o difficulty_n may_v expound_v the_o scripture_n though_o it_o be_v tie_v as_o you_o have_v say_v to_o the_o rule_n of_o god_n word_n in_o such_o proceed_n as_o judge_n to_o the_o law_n and_o we_o be_v conclude_v and_o bind_v up_o by_o that_o as_o we_o be_v to_o those_o case_n in_o the_o law_n which_o be_v the_o judgement_n and_o exposition_n of_o the_o judge_n upon_o the_o dark_a place_n of_o the_o same_o the_o church_n exposition_n and_o practice_n be_v our_o rule_n in_o such_o case_n and_o the_o best_a rule_n too_o as_o our_o late_a king_n affirm_v viz._n where_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o so_o clear_a and_o punctual_a in_o precept_n there_o the_o constant_a and_o universal_a practice_n of_o 20._o the_o church_n in_o thing_n not_o contrary_a to_o reason_n faith_n good_a manner_n or_o any_o positive_a command_n be_v the_o best_a rule_n that_o christian_n can_v follow_v so_o when_o there_o be_v a_o difference_n about_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n that_o we_o may_v not_o seem_v to_o abound_v in_o our_o own_o sense_n or_o give_v way_n to_o private_a interpretation_n dominari_fw-la fidei_fw-la to_o lord_n it_o over_o the_o faith_n of_o other_o we_o be_v not_o to_o utter_v our_o own_o fancy_n or_o desire_n to_o be_v believe_v upon_o our_o bare_a word_n but_o to_o deliver_v that_o sense_n which_o have_v be_v a_o foretime_o give_v by_o our_o forefather_n and_o forerunner_n in_o the_o christian_n say_v and_o so_o we_o necessary_o make_v another_o judge_n and_o rule_v for_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n or_o else_o we_o prove_v nothing_o thus_o have_v the_o best_a and_o able_a defender_n of_o our_o protestant_a religion_n defend_v it_o against_o the_o papist_n out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n too_o but_o not_o according_a to_o their_o own_o but_o the_o sense_n which_o the_o father_n unanimous_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o council_n give_v see_v mr_n philpot_n that_o glorious_a martyr_n in_o queen_n mary_n day_n to_o the_o like_a question_n propound_v viz._n how_o long_o have_v your_o church_n stand_v answer_v from_o the_o beginning_n from_o christ_n from_o the_o apostle_n and_o their_o immediate_a successor_n and_o for_o proof_n thereof_o desire_v no_o better_a rule_n than_o what_o the_o papist_n many_a time_n bring_v in_o on_o their_o side_n to_o wit_n antiquity_n universality_n and_o unity_n and_o calvin_n acknowledge_v as_o in_o our_o last_o paper_n we_o show_v you_o there_o can_v be_v no_o better_o nor_o sure_a remedy_n for_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n than_o what_o the_o father_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n give_v especial_o in_o the_o first_o four_o general_n council_n of_o nice_a constantinople_n ephesus_n and_o chalcedon_n which_o contain_v nothing_o say_v he_o but_o the_o pure_a and_o genuine_a interpretation_n of_o scripture_n and_o which_o he_o profess_v to_o embrace_v and_o reverence_n as_o hallow_v and_o inviolable_a so_o they_o rest_v not_o in_o private_a interpretation_n but_o willing_o submit_v to_o a_o judge_n and_o rule_v beside_o the_o scripture_n even_o such_o as_o the_o papist_n themselves_o can_v except_v against_o viz._n the_o primitive_a church_n practice_v and_o universal_a and_o unanimous_a consent_n of_o father_n and_o general_a council_n by_o these_o our_o church_n be_v content_a to_o be_v try_v and_o to_o this_o rule_n we_o bring_v the_o church_n government_n to_o be_v try_v thereby_o and_o on_o this_o score_n your_o presbytery_n be_v quite_o our_o of_o door_n be_v of_o example_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n and_o testimony_n of_o the_o father_n whole_o destitute_a â—_o wherein_o as_o the_o king_n have_v it_o the_o whole_a stream_n run_v so_o for_o episcopacy_n that_o that_o there_o be_v not_o the_o least_o rivulet_n for_o any_o other_o which_o you_o be_v sensible_a of_o have_v no_o way_n to_o evade_v this_o rule_n but_o una_fw-la liturâ_fw-la to_o blot_v out_o all_o record_n and_o monument_n
of_o antiquity_n for_o the_o space_n of_o three_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n as_o imperfect_a and_o far_o from_o show_v the_o universal_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n then_o and_o to_o brand_v the_o most_o approve_a author_n of_o those_o time_n as_o spurious_a and_o corrupt_a void_a of_o all_o modesty_n and_o show_v thereby_o no_o great_a store_n either_o of_o judgement_n or_o honesty_n but_o suppose_v the_o monument_n and_o record_n of_o antiquity_n for_o the_o space_n of_o three_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n be_v now_o as_o you_o say_v grow_v unperfect_a and_o not_o able_a to_o show_v what_o be_v then_o the_o church_n practice_n yet_o come_v we_o to_o the_o general_a council_n which_o be_v the_o best_a expositor_n of_o scripture_n and_o of_o the_o church_n practice_n and_o we_o by_o they_o shall_v find_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n in_o former_a time_n that_o famous_a council_n of_o nice_a which_o must_v be_v and_o be_v of_o all_o wise_a and_o learned_a man_n reverence_v esteem_v and_o embrace_v next_o unto_o the_o scripture_n themselves_o show_v you_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n in_o its_o form_n of_o church_n government_n by_o patriarch_n metropolitan_a archbishop_n bishop_n etc._n etc._n as_o by_o the_o 6_o seven_o 13_o 25_o 26_o and_o 27_o canon_n of_o the_o same_o council_n appear_v not_o that_o this_o council_n do_v constitute_v and_o create_v as_o some_o false_o conceit_n but_o do_v only_o confirm_v and_o strengthen_v those_o order_n and_o degree_n which_o be_v in_o the_o church_n even_o from_o the_o beginning_n so_o be_v the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n can._n 6._o the_o very_a first_o word_n of_o that_o canon_n whereby_o it_o be_v ordain_v that_o the_o whole_a power_n of_o all_o egypt_n lybia_n and_o pentapolis_n shall_v belong_v to_o the_o patriarch_n of_o alexandria_n even_o as_o it_o be_v also_o there_o decree_v that_o the_o ancient_a custom_n and_o privilege_n which_o belong_v to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n antioch_n and_o the_o metropolitan_n of_o other_o province_n shall_v be_v preserve_v be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o very_a word_n which_o ignatius_n use_v to_o express_v the_o apostolical_a tradition_n anriqui_fw-la mores_fw-la obtineant_fw-la in_o aegypto_n lybiâ_fw-la &_o pentapoli_n etc._n etc._n i._n e._n let_v the_o ancient_a custom_n in_o egypt_n lybia_n and_o pâ—ntapolis_n continue_v that_o the_o patriarck_n of_o alexandria_n shall_v have_v power_n over_o all_o these_o even_o those_o custom_n which_o be_v deduce_v down_o to_o those_o time_n from_o st_n mark_n the_o evangelist_n not_o only_a bishop_n of_o alexandria_n but_o of_o the_o church_n of_o egypt_n lybia_n and_o pentapolis_n also_o so_o eusebius_n lib_n 2._o cap._n 15_o 16._o and_o other_o so_o that_o these_o canon_n here_o make_v give_v no_o new_a thing_n do_v not_o the_o novo_fw-la institute_n or_o establish_v this_o stand_a subordination_n in_o the_o church_n viz._n of_o all_o inferior_a officer_n in_o the_o church_n to_o the_o bishop_n in_o every_o diocese_n of_o the_o bishop_n in_o every_o province_n to_o the_o metropolitan_a of_o the_o metropolitan_a in_o every_o region_n to_o the_o patriarch_n or_o primate_n but_o do_v only_o confirm_v it_o these_o stand_a power_n and_o subjection_n be_v define_v and_o assert_v by_o the_o ancient_a canon_n yea_o the_o most_o ancient_a even_o in_o memorial_n apostolical_a tradition_n and_o 5._o custom_n avouch_v for_o it_o as_o may_v appear_v council_n nicen._n 1._o cap._n 4_o 6._o council_n antioch_n cap._n 1_o 20._o council_n chalced._n cap._n 119._o see_v more_o of_o this_o in_o dr_n hammond_n of_o schism_n cap._n 3._o sect_n 22._o 23_o 24_o 25._o cap._n 8._o sect_n 8._o thus_o much_o to_o show_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n in_o point_n of_o church_n government_n for_o the_o first_o three_o hundred_o year_n even_o from_o general_a council_n the_o best_a expositor_n of_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n in_o those_o time_n and_o as_o they_o be_v our_o best_a informer_n of_o the_o church_n practice_n so_o be_v they_o the_o best_a interpreter_n of_o the_o mind_n and_o will_n of_o god_n in_o scripture_n touch_v church_n government_n calvin_n reckon_v up_o the_o several_a order_n and_o degree_n of_o bishop_n arch-bishop_n metropolitan_a and_o patriarch_n and_o render_v the_o reason_n of_o such_o governor_n ordain_v by_o the_o say_a council_n of_o nice_a though_o he_o dislike_v the_o name_n hierarchy_n which_o some_o give_v unto_o that_o government_n yet_o say_v he_o omit_v the_o name_n if_o we_o look_v into_o the_o thing_n we_o shall_v find_v that_o these_o ancient_a bishop_n do_v not_o frame_v a_o form_n of_o church_n government_n differ_v from_o that_o which_o christ_n have_v prescribe_v in_o his_o word_n mark_v we_o pray_v the_o church_n practice_n in_o the_o form_n of_o church_n government_n be_v hitherto_o according_a to_o the_o prescript_n of_o god_n word_n in_o calvin_n judgement_n and_o this_o be_v 330._o year_n after_o christ_n yea_o beza_n likewise_o that_o earnest_a â—atron_n of_o presbyterian_a discipline_n confess_v that_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v ordain_v of_o the_o ancient_a father_n concern_v the_o seat_n of_o bishop_n metropolitan_n and_o patriarch_n assign_v their_o limit_n and_o attribute_v to_o they_o certain_a authority_n be_v appoint_v optimo_fw-la zelo_fw-la out_o of_o a_o very_a good_a zeal_n and_o therefore_o such_o sure_a as_o be_v according_a to_o knowledge_n and_o the_o word_n of_o god_n otherwise_o it_o will_v be_v far_o from_o be_v optimus_fw-la the_o best_a zeal_n and_o thus_o we_o have_v find_v a_o church_n government_n agreeable_a to_o the_o will_n of_o god_n and_o universal_a practice_n of_o primitive_a church_n such_o a_o one_o as_o we_o pray_v for_o may_v be_v establish_v in_o this_o nation_n put_v both_o together_o not_o the_o word_n of_o god_n alone_o nor_o the_o church_n practice_n alone_o but_o both_o together_o and_o both_o in_o their_o due_a piace_n not_o cry_v up_o the_o church_n above_o the_o scripture_n nor_o cry_v up_o the_o scripture_n to_o the_o contempt_n and_o neglect_n of_o the_o church_n but_o restore_v the_o practice_n and_o custom_n of_o the_o church_n into_o that_o credit_n be_v due_a unto_o they_o by_o invalidate_v of_o which_o all_o heretical_a and_o schismatical_a person_n seek_v to_o overthrow_v the_o church_n nay_o but_o you_o be_v that_o government_n which_o be_v most_o consonant_a to_o the_o will_n of_o god_n reveal_v in_o scripture_n and_o your_o roll_a elder_n be_v jure_fw-la divino_fw-la which_o you_o can_v part_v with_o unless_o you_o shall_v betray_v the_o truth_n of_o christ_n rom._n 12._o 1_o cor._n 12._o 1_o tim._n 5._o we_o answer_v these_o text_n be_v too_o general_a to_o prove_v a_o roll_a presbytery_n out_o of_o and_o so_o you_o have_v be_v often_o tell_v by_o many_o more_o learned_a doctor_n of_o our_o english_a church_n yet_o rule_v elder_n must_v be_v find_v here_o for_o so_o you_o will_v have_v it_o let_v 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and_o which_o paul_n though_o so_o great_a a_o apostle_n and_o immediate_o and_o infallible_o inspire_v will_v not_o presume_v to_o do_v 2_o cor._n 1._o â—4_n the_o church_n have_v only_o a_o ministry_n commit_v to_o she_o which_o be_v only_o to_o propound_v that_o sense_n of_o scripture_n which_o the_o scripture_n itself_o give_v and_o no_o more_o 4._o but_o thus_o say_v you_o the_o best_a and_o able_a defender_n of_o our_o protestant_a religion_n defend_v it_o against_o the_o papist_n though_o out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n too_o give_v the_o sense_n which_o the_o father_n unanimous_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o council_n give_v but_o this_o be_v not_o the_o question_n whether_o our_o divine_n defend_v the_o protestant_a religion_n against_o the_o papist_n not_o only_o out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n but_o from_o the_o testimony_n also_o of_o father_n and_o council_n but_o whether_o they_o do_v ever_o make_v the_o unanimous_a consent_n of_o the_o father_n and_o 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time_n when_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a assemble_v all_o at_o once_o but_o by_o step_n and_o degree_n and_o that_o it_o be_v then_o nothing_o like_o to_o what_o it_o grow_v up_o to_o afterward_o and_o further_o that_o however_o those_o godly_a father_n that_o do_v first_o set_v it_o up_o and_o afterward_o uphold_v it_o do_v so_o out_o of_o a_o good_a intention_n yet_o that_o therein_o they_o be_v but_o subservient_fw-fr to_o what_o afterward_o be_v effect_v in_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n to_o lift_v up_o antichrist_n into_o his_o seat_n and_o which_o be_v not_o much_o to_o be_v wonder_v at_o whenas_o the_o apostle_n tell_v we_o that_o in_o his_o day_n the_o mystery_n of_o iniquity_n do_v then_o already_o work_v and_o that_o good_a man_n may_v be_v instrumental_a though_o unwitting_o to_o promote_v and_o advance_v a_o very_a ill_a and_o bad_a design_n god_n therein_o leave_v they_o to_o themselves_o and_o he_o thereby_o in_o his_o secret_a and_o unsearchable_a providence_n though_o 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priest_n as_o you_o express_v it_o make_v bishop_n and_o presbyter_n mutual_o to_o expound_v each_o other_o as_o have_v be_v already_o observe_v and_o herein_o you_o be_v not_o alone_o as_o have_v be_v partly_o show_v before_o and_o be_v abundant_o show_v by_o other_o and_o particular_o by_o our_o reverend_a brethren_n of_o the_o province_n of_o london_n who_o in_o their_o 4._o jus_fw-la divinum_fw-la ministerij_fw-la evangelici_fw-la prove_v not_o only_o from_o the_o scripture_n that_o a_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n be_v all_o one_o but_o do_v urge_v also_o sundry_a other_o testimony_n for_o the_o proof_n thereof_o not_o only_o out_o of_o hierome_n and_o augustine_n but_o likewise_o do_v alleadg_n dr._n reynolds_n in_o his_o epistle_n to_o sir_n francis_n knowles_n show_v the_o same_o thing_n out_o of_o chrysostome_n hierome_n ambrose_n augustine_n theodoret_n primasius_n sedulius_n theophilact_fw-mi and_o do_v further_o urge_v that_o michael_n medina_n affirm_v lib._n 1_o de_fw-fr sacris_fw-la originibus_fw-la that_o not_o only_a hierome_n but_o also_o that_o ambrose_n augustine_n sedulius_n primasius_n chrysostome_n theodoret_n oecumenius_n theophilact_fw-mi be_v of_o the_o same_o judgement_n with_o ae_n rius_fw-la and_o hold_v that_o there_o be_v no_o difference_n between_o a_o bishop_n and_o a_o presbyter_n by_o scripture_n beside_o other_o testimony_n which_o they_o do_v there_o urge_v but_o david_n blondellus_n in_o his_o apologia_fw-la pro_fw-la sententiâ_fw-la hieronymi_n do_v clear_v this_o up_o so_o full_o in_o that_o his_o large_a treatise_n pen_v on_o purpose_n to_o show_v what_o concurrence_n of_o antiquity_n there_o be_v for_o this_o opinion_n of_o hierome_n that_o we_o believe_v those_o that_o be_v unprejudiced_a that_o will_v but_o take_v the_o pain_n to_o read_v and_o weigh_v what_o he_o there_o present_v will_v ready_o grant_v that_o long_o before_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a and_o long_o after_o it_o be_v acknowledge_v that_o a_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n be_v one_o order_n of_o ministry_n we_o have_v thus_o say_v that_o which_o we_o judge_v sufficient_a unto_o the_o canon_n themselves_o that_o you_o cite_v out_o of_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a and_o particular_o to_o the_o six_o canon_n of_o that_o council_n on_o which_o you_o lay_v the_o great_a weight_n and_o shall_v now_o proceed_v to_o examine_v what_o follow_v 4._o for_o you_o will_v have_v the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d that_o we_o use_v in_o the_o 6_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a to_o be_v the_o very_a word_n which_o ignatius_n use_v to_o express_v the_o apostolical_a tradition_n antiqui_fw-la mores_fw-la obtineant_fw-la in_o egypto_n lybia_n pentapoli_n etc._n etc._n i._n e._n let_v the_o ancient_a custom_n of_o egypt_n lybia_n and_o pentapoli_n continue_v that_o the_o patriarch_n of_o alexandria_n shall_v have_v power_n over_o all_o these_o but_o concern_v the_o epistle_n that_o go_v under_o the_o name_n of_o ignatius_n you_o may_v know_v there_o be_v different_a opinion_n of_o the_o learned_a about_o they_o salmasius_n conceive_v they_o be_v write_v by_o a_o pseudo-ignatius_n to_o bring_v into_o credit_n that_o episcopal_a government_n that_o deviate_v from_o the_o primitive_a institution_n and_o that_o they_o be_v write_v at_o that_o very_a time_n when_o that_o be_v set_v up_o other_o that_o conceive_v any_o of_o they_o to_o be_v genuine_a yet_o do_v not_o receive_v they_o all_o mr._n perkins_n in_o his_o preparative_n to_o the_o demonstration_n of_o the_o problem_n observe_v that_o seven_o epistle_n of_o he_o hierome_n and_o eusebius_n lib._n 3._o cap._n 35_o &_o 36._o reckon_v for_o true_a but_o now_o they_o be_v increase_v unto_o twelve_o five_o whereof_o he_o judge_v to_o be_v counterfeit_a and_o these_o to_o be_v 1._o ad_fw-la mariam_n 2._o ad_fw-la tarsenses_n 3._o ad_fw-la hieron_n 4._o ad_fw-la antiochenos_n 5._o ad_fw-la philippense_n dr._n usher_n that_o reverend_a and_o learned_a antiquary_n acknowledge_v only_o six_o of_o these_o epistle_n to_o be_v genuine_a and_o say_v the_o other_o six_o be_v spurious_a and_o of_o those_o six_o that_o he_o acknowledge_v he_o say_v they_o be_v deprave_v and_o corrupt_v nay_o mr._n perkins_n observe_v that_o bellarmine_n himself_o confess_v of_o these_o epistle_n that_o the_o greek_a copy_n be_v corrupt_v and_o to_o evidence_n this_o we_o wish_v you_o to_o consider_v two_o passage_n only_o that_o we_o shall_v instance_n in_o in_o his_o epistle_n to_o the_o trallian_n he_o boast_v of_o his_o knowledge_n for_o he_o say_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d etc._n etc._n i_o be_o able_a to_o understand_v heavenly_a thing_n the_o order_n of_o angel_n the_o difference_n of_o archangel_n and_o of_o the_o heavenly_a host_n the_o difference_n between_o power_n and_o domination_n the_o distance_n of_o throne_n and_o power_n yea_o as_o follow_v a_o little_a after_o the_o kingdom_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o the_o incomparable_a divinity_n of_o the_o lord_n god_n almighty_n these_o expression_n savour_v not_o of_o that_o humility_n that_o be_v in_o that_o faithful_a servant_n of_o christ_n the_o true_a ignatius_n and_o in_o his_o epistle_n ad_fw-la smyrnenses_n he_o take_v upon_o he_o to_o correct_v if_o not_o to_o contradict_v solomon_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d etc._n etc._n he_o say_v my_o son_n honour_n god_n and_o the_o king_n but_o i_o say_v honour_n god_n as_o the_o author_n and_o lord_n of_o all_o thing_n and_o the_o bishop_n as_o the_o prince_n of_o priest_n etc._n etc._n and_o after_o he_o it_o behove_v you_o to_o honour_v the_o king_n more_o here_o may_v be_v urge_v but_o these_o and_o other_o passage_n that_o may_v be_v instance_a in_o do_v show_v plain_o that_o these_o epistle_n be_v either_o counterfeit_n or_o corrupt_v and_o this_o be_v the_o reason_n of_o those_o expression_n we_o use_v in_o our_o answer_n when_o we_o say_v it_o will_v not_o be_v easy_a to_o assure_v we_o that_o some_o work_n that_o