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A59787 An answer to a late Dialogue between a new Catholick convert and a Protestant to prove the mystery of the Trinity to be as absurd a doctrine as transubstantiation : by way of short notes on the said dialogue. Sherlock, William, 1641?-1707. 1687 (1687) Wing S3261; ESTC R10173 11,401 17

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An ANSWER To a late DIALOGUE Between a New Catholick Convert AND A PROTESTANT To prove the MYSTERY of the TRINITY to be as absurd a Doctrine as TRANSUBSTANTIATION By way of short Notes on the said Dialogue Licensed December 7th 1686. LONDON Printed for Thomas Bassett at the George near St. Dunstan's Church in Fleet-street 1687. A DIALOGUE BETWEEN A New Catholick Convert AND A PROTESTANT Concerning the Doctrines of the Trinity and Transubstantiation a THIS new Catholick Convert begins well for the first thing he learns is to believe the Trinity to be a groundless absurd and unreasonable Doctrine and then to believe whatever the Church teaches if it be not more absurd than the Doctrine of the Trinity this is a great Improvement of Faith which we Protestants can never attain to for we cannot perswade our Understandings or our Faith to digest Absurdities but let us hear their Dialogue A. You cannot imagine how much I am overjoy'd to see you I have been big with Discourse these three days for want of Utterance You may remember when we talk'd together last b we parted in a Dispute concerning Transubstantiation and the holy Trinity of their equal Reasonableness and Authority I must confess I was not at that time so thorowly arm'd with Reasons to shew you the Parallel But since I have given my self a little leisure to consider of it and I am perswaded I shall be able to give you Satisfaction b This is a little mistake if we may guess at their last Discourse by this Dialogue for the Design is not to prove That Transubstantiation and the holy Trinity have equal Reasonableness and Authority but that neither of them are reasonable or have any Authority Now though we may allow them to make as bold with Transubstantiation as they please yet we cannot but be sensible of that Dishonour which is done to common Christianity by exposing the most sacred and venerable Mystery of it to the Scorn and Derision of Infidels and Hereticks For sure they cannot think it any great credit to the Doctrine of the Trinity that it cannot be proved either by Tradition Scripture or Reason B. Sir you know I am always glad of any Opportunity to gain your good Company but especially upon so good an Occasion I 'le assure you I am not nor ever was an Enemy to Catholick Communion and if I had not too just a Cause I should never suffer my self in that which without reasonable Grounds might be call'd a wilful Schism A. I have no reason to doubt your Integrity and therefore shall not question that I shall only desire the liberty to press my old Argument c That you would rely on the Authority of the Church I must confess you have often question'd the doing of it but I am sure when you shall consider there are Mysteries as well as Doctrines in the Christian Religion and when you know that d Mysteries are not to be fathom'd by Natural Reason you must needs conclude that in some Cases your e safest way is to trust Tradition Now certainly no one can give us so good an account of That as the Church c This opens the Scene and shews the whole design of this Dialogue to bring men to rely on the Authority of the Church and it is worth the while to consider what a notable way this is The new Convert perswades his Protestant Friend to fling away Sense and Reason and Scripture and his own private Judgment and to rely wholly on the Authority of the Church for when these are out of the way we may believe the Church in any thing No saies the Protestant I can't believe that which is unreasonable and absurd whoever tells it me Convert Don't you believe the Doctrine of the Trinity Protest Yes very heartily Convert Why then Transubstantiation it self which you Protestants make such a noise about is not more unreasonable and has as good foundation in Tradition and Scripture as the Doctrine of the Trinity Protest Say you so my Friend then why must I believe the Trinity Conv. Because the Church teaches it and for the same reason you must believe Transubstantiation Protest Hold there Sir what if I will believe neither then I hope I need not rely upon the Authority of the Church Conv. But you confess you must believe the Trinity Protest Yes if it be founded on Scripture and Tradition and do not contradict the Reason of Mankind as I have thought hitherto but if you can perswade me otherwise I will believe it no longer unless you can tell me for what reason I must believe that which I have no reason to believe Wretched men who care not what becomes of Christian Religion if they can but establish the Authority of their Church nay care not how much they dishonour the Church itself for it is no great Commendation of Church-Authority in matters of Faith that the only use of it is to make men believe without Reason or in contradiction to it For it seems were the Christian Faith reasonable there were no need of relying on the Churches Authority at least they would want one of the best Arguments to prove it d There are some Mysteries above Reason none contrary to it as Transubstantiation is e The universal Tradition of the Church in conjunction with Scripture I grant is a very good Foundation for our Faith but what shall we do when there is no certain Tradition as he proves there is not for the Doctrine of the Trinity for though we should allow that the safest way is to receive these Traditions from the Church yet we cannot receive them from her if she have them not and she cannot have them if there be none and we must conclude there are none if they be not visible For the Churches word whatever Authority it have is not Tradition B. But Sir to be short What relation has this to the present Parallel of the Trinity and Transubstantiation The Authority of the Church is another Point as disputable as That A. Very much For as f These two Doctrines have equal ground from Scripture Reason and Tradition so ' is there the same Obligation of your receiving one as well as the other And indeed I have since wonder'd at my own Profession g while a Protestant to think how blind and partial I was But I must confess because we are in a Dispute it is better laying by such aggravating Circumstances and indeed I cannot but be sensible what Prejudices such Discourses always make and therefore I shall speak nothing more of that nature f That is none at all as he attempts to prove and if the Trinity have no better then Transubstantiation it has none and then let him show how we are obliged to believe either as I observed before g For what for not believing Transubstantiation as well as the Trinity Did he then while a Protestant believe the Doctrine of the Trinity to be as unreasonable and to have no