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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A67435 The controversial letters, or, The grand controversie concerning the pretended temporal authority of popes over the whole earth, and the true sovereign of kings within their own respective kingdoms : between two English gentlemen, the one of the Church of England, the other of the Church of Rome ... Walsh, Peter, 1618?-1688. 1674 (1674) Wing W631; ESTC R219375 334,631 426

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or_o indirect_a and_o in_o likelihood_n people_n have_v in_o common_a a_o great_a veneration_n for_o the_o supreme_a pastor_n and_o his_o decree_n and_o think_v they_o wicked_a man_n who_o submit_v not_o to_o they_o but_o what_o kind_n of_o power_n he_o have_v and_o how_o far_o it_o extend_v as_o far_o as_o i_o can_v perceive_v they_o little_o consider_v it_o be_v observable_a both_o in_o this_o sentence_n and_o the_o former_a of_o gregory_n vii_o that_o the_o emperor_n be_v first_o depose_v and_o afterward_o excommunicate_v in_o aggravation_n as_o it_o be_v of_o the_o former_a penalty_n the_o business_n be_v a_o little_a more_o discuss_v in_o the_o contest_v betwixt_o boniface_n the_o viiith_o and_o philip_n the_o fair_a of_o france_n as_o this_o pope_n be_v record_v for_o a_o man_n of_o more_o mettle_n than_o virtue_n his_o proceed_n be_v
not_o the_o worst_a of_o the_o case_n it_o be_v pretend_v in_o the_o behalf_n of_o the_o depose_n doctrine_n that_o it_o rely_v on_o divine_a right_n and_o the_o hot_a abetter_n of_o it_o will_v hardly_o suffer_v those_o to_o pass_v for_o good_a catholic_n who_o reject_v it_o the_o truth_n be_v they_o can_v well_o go_v less_o for_o while_o it_o be_v acknowledge_v as_o on_o all_o hand_n it_o be_v that_o subjection_n to_o prince_n be_v command_v by_o god_n law_n that_o which_o take_v away_o this_o subjection_n must_v be_v god_n law_n too_o or_o nothing_o and_o indeed_o consider_v the_o import_n of_o the_o question_n and_o the_o immediate_a influence_n it_o have_v upon_o a_o main_a point_n of_o duty_n it_o can_v well_o be_v doubt_v but_o the_o truth_n on_o which_o side_n soever_o it_o be_v this_fw-mi belong_v to_o god_n law_n certain_o the_o wisdom_n of_o god_n who_o take_v flesh_n purposely_o to_o instruct_v the_o world_n in_o all_o necessary_a duty_n do_v not_o leave_v out_o so_o considerable_a a_o part_n now_o that_o his_o law_n teach_v we_o be_v to_o obey_v temporal_a prince_n be_v both_o plain_a in_o itself_o and_o as_o i_o come_v from_o say_v plain_o confess_v by_o every_o body_n but_o it_o be_v evident_a we_o can_v at_o the_o same_o time_n obey_v two_o power_n command_v contrary_a thing_n wherefore_o i_o can_v see_v but_o to_o require_v obedience_n in_o temporal_n to_o the_o spiritual_a power_n by_o the_o same_o law_n which_o command_v obedience_n to_o the_o temporal_a be_v to_o make_v that_o law_n contradictory_n and_o impossible_a to_o be_v obey_v which_o as_o it_o be_v a_o blasphemy_n intolerable_a in_o any_o christian_n so_o i_o fear_v it_o be_v unavoidable_a in_o those_o who_o put_v a_o temporal_a virtue_n in_o the_o spiritual_a power_n for_o that_o virtue_n plain_o oblige_v to_o obedience_n in_o temporal_n to_o which_o obedience_n we_o be_v oblige_v by_o another_o virtue_n that_o of_o the_o temporal_a power_n and_o this_o be_v to_o require_v we_o shall_v do_v what_o christ_n himself_o have_v assure_v we_o be_v impossible_a to_o be_v do_v serve_v two_o master_n the_o way_n by_o which_o they_o seek_v to_o avoid_v this_o be_v by_o say_v kingly_a obedience_n as_o inferior_a must_v yield_v to_o papal_a obedience_n as_o superior_a which_o i_o think_v be_v by_o strive_v to_o weather_n scylla_n to_o split_v upon_o charybdis_n we_o have_v assurance_n from_o those_o who_o we_o have_v more_o reason_n to_o credit_n that_o king_n be_v inferior_a only_o to_o god_n and_o have_v none_o above_o they_o but_o he_o alone_o i_o suppose_v this_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o superiority_n for_o otherwise_o it_o be_v ordinary_a enough_o for_o the_o same_o man_n to_o be_v both_o superior_a and_o inferior_a to_o another_o in_o several_a respect_n as_o a_o father_n to_o a_o son_n who_o be_v a_o magistrate_n but_o it_o be_v plain_a there_o be_v no_o reconcile_n this_o doctrine_n with_o that_o of_o a_o papal_a superiority_n in_o temporal_n we_o may_v as_o soon_o obey_v both_o when_o they_o command_v contrary_n as_o believe_v one_o have_v no_o superior_a beside_o god_n to_o who_o the_o pope_n be_v superior_a and_o yet_o there_o be_v another_o thing_n which_o stick_v more_o with_o i_o this_o papal_a superiority_n in_o temporal_n be_v not_o where_o to_o be_v find_v but_o in_o their_o own_o fancy_n there_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n in_o scripture_n or_o tradition_n council_n or_o father_n to_o obtrude_v upon_o we_o a_o invention_n of_o their_o own_o head_n and_o this_o for_o a_o part_n of_o god_n law_n be_v to_o add_v to_o the_o law_n of_o god_n let_v they_o either_o show_v that_o place_n of_o god_n law_n which_o teach_v kingly_a power_n be_v inferior_a and_o papal_a superior_a and_o this_o in_o temporal_n or_o show_v how_o they_o do_v not_o give_v we_o for_o god_n law_n that_o which_o be_v not_o and_o entitle_v themselves_o to_o the_o malediction_n of_o the_o apocalypse_v feed_v my_o sheep_n and_o whatsoever_o you_o shall_v bind_v be_v not_o king_n be_v inferior_a in_o temporal_n and_o their_o interpretation_n which_o hook_n in_o temporal_n be_v not_o scripture_n beside_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n have_v forbid_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v interpret_v against_o the_o unanimous_a consent_n of_o the_o father_n and_o if_o any_o one_o father_n can_v be_v bring_v who_o interpret_v those_o place_n as_o they_o do_v or_o who_o do_v not_o interpret_v they_o quite_o contrary_a if_o he_o meddle_v with_o they_o at_o all_o true_o there_o be_v more_o to_o be_v say_v for_o they_o than_o i_o be_o aware_a of_o but_o let_v we_o consider_v a_o little_a far_o in_o a_o question_n which_o belong_v to_o christian_a duty_n and_o the_o law_n of_o god_n how_o do_v or_o how_o shall_v a_o catholic_a proceed_v i_o conceive_v who_o go_v to_o work_v like_o a_o catholic_a shall_v frame_v his_o belief_n according_a to_o his_o rule_n of_o belief_n i_o think_v that_o be_v the_o use_n of_o a_o rule_n to_o my_o judgement_n they_o go_v not_o this_o way_n who_o be_v for_o depose_v as_o indeed_o they_o can_v for_o if_o tradition_n be_v as_o i_o conceive_v it_o be_v the_o catholic_a rule_n there_o be_v no_o apply_v this_o rule_n to_o deposition_n look_v into_o all_o beauties_n argument_n those_o in_o his_o rom._n pont._n be_v all_o from_o reason_n deduce_v such_o inference_n from_o scripture_n or_o acknowledge_v point_n of_o catholic_a doctrine_n as_o make_v to_o his_o purpose_n these_o deduction_n till_o they_o be_v acknowledge_v right_o make_v which_o hitherto_o be_v deny_v and_o that_o upon_o very_o good_a ground_n have_v no_o force_n at_o all_o to_o induce_v belief_n and_o though_o they_o be_v acknowledge_v will_v make_v at_o most_o but_o a_o theological_a conclusion_n those_o against_o barclay_n be_v all_o from_o authority_n and_o this_o authority_n be_v either_o of_o a_o single_a pope_n boniface_n 8_o or_o a_o great_a many_o single_a man_n or_o those_o man_n meet_v together_o in_o council_n for_o as_o for_o scripture_n which_o he_o pretend_v and_o which_o indeed_o will_v do_v the_o business_n if_o it_o declare_v itself_o he_o make_v nothing_o of_o it_o now_o there_o be_v no_o number_n or_o quality_n of_o man_n let_v they_o be_v catholic_o never_o so_o much_o which_o oblige_v to_o a_o belief_n of_o what_o they_o say_v otherwise_o then_o when_o they_o witness_v the_o point_n in_o question_n be_v receive_v by_o they_o from_o their_o ancestor_n as_o teach_v original_o by_o christ_n which_o testimony_n of_o they_o hand_n it_o over_o for_o such_o a_o point_n to_o those_o who_o come_v after_o in_o all_o other_o case_n they_o speak_v their_o own_o private_a judgement_n and_o this_o whether_o single_a or_o assemble_v and_o for_o that_o reason_n be_v not_o part_n of_o tradition_n or_o the_o catholic_a rule_n and_o make_v no_o necessity_n of_o belief_n and_o these_o be_v all_o the_o way_n they_o have_v to_o the_o wood_n i_o do_v not_o discern_v the_o catholic_a way_n among_o they_o but_o what_o be_v the_o consequence_n there_o be_v but_o two_o thing_n acknowledge_v by_o catholic_n to_o which_o we_o be_v oblige_v to_o submit_v our_o judgement_n scripture_n and_o tradition_n if_o these_o be_v true_o two_o and_o not_o one_o thing_n with_o two_o name_n for_o as_o for_o council_n they_o belong_v to_o tradition_n and_o be_v when_o due_o qualify_v the_o most_o considerable_a part_n of_o it_o in_o scripture_n we_o find_v subjection_n and_o obedience_n and_o this_o for_o conscience_n possess_v our_o soul_n in_o patience_n expect_v our_o reward_n in_o the_o next_o world_n and_o the_o like_a no_o word_n of_o deposition_n look_v into_o tradition_n and_o we_o find_v ten_o whole_a age_n persuade_v and_o practise_v according_a to_o the_o same_o maxim_n persevere_v in_o faithful_a obedience_n to_o just_a command_n and_o patient_a refusal_n of_o unjust_a one_o and_o apprehend_v they_o be_v oblige_v by_o the_o law_n of_o god_n so_o to_o do_v we_o find_v all_o the_o father_n of_o all_o those_o age_n confirm_v they_o in_o this_o apprehension_n and_o inculcate_v the_o duty_n of_o obedience_n even_o to_o tyrant_n and_o persecutor_n we_o find_v pope_n themselves_o not_o only_a teach_n but_o practise_v the_o same_o doctrine_n obey_v command_n sometime_o think_v unreasonable_a and_o unjust_a and_o submit_v with_o patience_n to_o the_o pleasure_n of_o their_o then_o acknowledge_a lord_n the_o emperor_n this_o be_v if_o any_o thing_n can_v be_v semper_fw-la &_o ubique_fw-la &_o ab_fw-la omnibus_fw-la and_o this_o be_v the_o know_a rule_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n the_o opposite_a opinion_n begin_v at_o such_o a_o time_n in_o such_o a_o place_n and_o by_o such_o a_o man_n and_o when_o it_o begin_v be_v cry_v out_o on_o as_o a_o novelty_n contrary_n to_o the_o ancient_a doctrine_n which_o in_o all_o other_o case_n be_v
answer_n but_o beside_o that_o my_o pitcher_n contrary_a to_o the_o case_n in_o horace_n be_v already_o become_v a_o jar_n and_o it_o will_v be_v monstrous_a to_o work_v it_o into_o a_o tun_n i_o consider_v it_o be_v not_o our_o business_n at_o present_a we_o be_v not_o now_o upon_o the_o what_o be_v say_v but_o the_o who_o say_v it_o to_o examine_v who_o have_v most_o reason_n for_o what_o he_o say_v be_v to_o turn_v back_o to_o the_o merit_n of_o the_o cause_n which_o if_o any_o one_o will_v do_v i_o be_o well_o content_a to_o leave_v he_o to_o himself_o for_o he_o must_v have_v either_o very_a bad_a eye_n or_o much_o turn_v away_o who_o will_v not_o easy_o see_v through_o all_o that_o be_v say_v in_o the_o mean_a time_n it_o be_v enough_o for_o my_o purpose_n that_o it_o be_v acknowledge_v and_o by_o bellarmin_n himself_o that_o what_o he_o say_v be_v contradict_v by_o catholic_n man_n of_o note_n as_o well_o as_o himself_o and_o who_o no_o have_v as_o much_o authority_n as_o his_o i_o but_o i_o conceive_v it_o fit_v to_o produce_v some_o of_o a_o high_a form_n and_o who_o credit_n be_v unquestionable_a to_o begin_v with_o one_o against_o who_o none_o can_v speak_v or_o be_v hear_v without_o impiety_n i_o vouch_v in_o the_o first_o place_n st._n paul_n rom._n 13._o let_v every_o soul_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o high_a power_n and_o here_o i_o may_v end_v as_o well_o as_o begin_v for_o this_o be_v in_o truth_n alone_o decisive_a he_o must_v have_v no_o soul_n who_o can_v pretend_v this_o command_n comprehend_v he_o not_o yet_o let_v we_o hear_v his_o interpreter_n theodoret_n upon_o this_o place_n have_v these_o word_n sive_fw-la est_fw-la sacerdos_n etc._n etc._n whether_o one_o be_v a_o priest_n or_o prelate_n or_o have_v profess_v a_o monastical_a life_n let_v he_o obey_v those_o ijs_fw-la cedat_fw-la to_o who_o magistracy_n be_v commit_v theophylact_fw-mi upon_o the_o same_o place_n have_v almost_o the_o same_o word_n vniversos_fw-la erudit_fw-la etc._n etc._n he_o instruct_v all_o whether_o a_o priest_n or_o monk_n or_o apostle_n that_o they_o be_v subject_a to_o prince_n st._n chrysostom_n hom._n 23._o upon_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o roman_n sed_fw-la eas_fw-la paulus_n etc._n etc._n but_o paul_n make_v use_v of_o such_o reason_n as_o command_v obedience_n to_o the_o power_n by_o way_n of_o debt_n show_v those_o thing_n be_v command_v all_o as_o well_o priest_n as_o monk_n not_o secular_n only_o and_o this_o he_o declare_v in_o the_o very_a beginning_n when_o he_o say_v let_v every_o soul_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o high_a power_n though_o you_o be_v a_o apostle_n though_o a_o evangelist_n though_o a_o prophet_n in_o fine_a whatsoever_o you_o be_v for_o this_o subjection_n be_v not_o against_o piety_n let_v we_o next_o hear_v pope_n themselves_o gelasius_n write_v to_o the_o emperor_n anastasius_n tell_v he_o that_o the_o prelate_n of_o the_o church_n owe_v he_o all_o obedience_n in_o temporal_n and_o again_o ep._n 10._o antistites_fw-la religionis_fw-la bishop_n also_o themselves_o be_v to_o obey_v thy_o law_n and_o this_o because_o forasmuch_o as_o concern_v the_o order_n of_o public_a discipline_n that_o be_v the_o government_n of_o the_o commonwealth_n we_o know_v the_o power_n be_v by_o supernal_a disposition_n give_v to_o thou_o anastasius_n to_o the_o same_o emperor_n acknowledge_v that_o bishop_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o law_n of_o the_o prince_n in_o what_o concern_v public_a discipline_n but_o prince_n to_o bishop_n in_o dispense_n the_o mystery_n and_o sacrament_n pelagius_n the_o first_o ep._n 16._o to_o childebert_n king_n of_o france_n with_o how_o much_o study_n and_o labour_n must_v we_o endeavour_v for_o take_v away_o the_o scandal_n of_o suspicion_n to_o offer_v the_o duty_n of_o our_o confession_n to_o king_n to_o who_o the_o holy_a scripture_n command_v we_o also_o to_o be_v subject_a st._n gregory_n the_o great_a speak_v with_o a_o submission_n which_o offend_v baronius_n and_o make_v he_o strain_v his_o wit_n to_o find_v a_o scurvy_a way_n to_o colour_v the_o business_n but_o no_o varnish_n will_v lie_v that_o he_o be_v subject_a to_o the_o emperor_n command_n that_o he_o do_v what_o he_o ought_v in_o obey_v the_o emperor_n on_o one_o side_n and_o speak_v for_o god_n on_o the_o other_o that_o power_n from_o heaven_n be_v give_v to_o the_o piety_n of_o his_o lord_n as_o he_o call_v emperor_n over_o all_o man_n over_o priest_n as_o well_o as_o soldier_n etc._n etc._n have_v a_o blunt_a ill_a nature_a clearness_n which_o no_o art_n can_v practise_v upon_o i_o can_v but_o take_v notice_n by_o the_o way_n how_o bellarmin_n strive_v to_o weather_v those_o rock_n he_o object_n against_o himself_o the_o aforesaid_a place_n of_o st._n paul_n with_o the_o other_o to_o the_o same_o purpose_n out_o of_o st._n pet._n 2._o and_o what_o st._n chrysostome_n say_v of_o the_o matter_n and_o answer_n that_o those_o place_n be_v general_a and_o mean_v no_o more_o than_o that_o every_o one_o be_v subject_n to_o his_o own_o superior_a but_o the_o subjection_n of_o the_o clergy_n to_o prince_n can_v be_v prove_v by_o they_o till_o it_o be_v prove_v that_o prince_n be_v lawful_a superior_n and_o judge_n of_o the_o clergy_n which_o can_v be_v prove_v unless_o it_o be_v prove_v that_o sheep_n have_v pre-eminence_n over_o pastor_n child_n over_o parent_n and_o temporal_n over_o spiritual_n and_o yet_o we_o do_v not_o contradict_v st._n chrysostome_n neither_o for_o though_o we_o say_v the_o pope_n alone_o be_v the_o proper_a judge_n of_o the_o clergy_n and_o monk_n yet_o we_o confess_v the_o king_n be_v king_n of_o they_o as_o well_o as_o the_o laity_n for_o prince_n fight_v for_o they_o and_o they_o must_v honour_v and_o pray_v for_o he_o and_o obey_v he_o too_o directive_o not_o co-active_o and_o with_o his_o former_a restriction_n that_o prejudice_n shall_v be_v thus_o powerful_a be_v it_o possible_a bellarmin_n shall_v in_o earnest_n persuade_v himself_o the_o apostle_n mean_v only_o in_o general_n that_o every_o one_o shall_v obey_v who_o he_o ought_v obey_v the_o laity_n their_o secular_a the_o clergy_n their_o ecclesiastical_a superior_a be_v not_o the_o superior_n or_o high_a power_n who_o all_o be_v command_v to_o obey_v express_o name_v by_o st._n peter_n king_n and_o duke_n or_o governor_n send_v to_o punish_v evil_a doer_n and_o by_o st._n paul_n magistrate_n who_o bear_v the_o sword_n can_v he_o think_v this_o command_n be_v comply_v with_o by_o obedience_n to_o ecclesiastical_a superior_n be_v they_o king_n do_v they_o bear_v the_o sword_n be_v they_o the_o minister_n of_o god_n to_o wrath_n and_o vengeance_n what_o better_a proof_n will_v he_o have_v the_o king_n be_v lawful_a superior_n even_o of_o the_o clergy_n than_o st._n paul_n give_v viz._n that_o their_o power_n be_v ordain_v by_o god_n who_o to_o resist_v be_v to_o acquire_v damnation_n in_o st._n peter_n we_o find_v the_o reason_n of_o his_o doctrine_n express_v when_o he_o admonish_v christian_n so_o to_o converse_v among_o the_o gentile_n that_o they_o who_o speak_v ill_o of_o they_o may_v be_v move_v by_o their_o good_a work_n to_o glorify_v god_n and_o the_o ignorance_n of_o the_o foolish_a be_v silence_v by_o the_o calumny_n which_o the_o apostle_n mean_v all_o interpreter_n understand_v a_o suspicion_n creep_v in_o among_o the_o gentile_n of_o disobedience_n to_o temporal_a power_n and_o contempt_n of_o their_o law_n for_o such_o a_o seditious_a doctrine_n there_o be_v among_o the_o jew_n begin_v by_o judas_n the_o galilean_a and_o tenacious_o embrace_v by_o the_o pharisee_n it_o be_v too_o well_o know_v by_o the_o disorder_v it_o cause_v and_o be_v mistake_v for_o a_o point_n of_o the_o jew_n religion_n christian_n be_v asperse_v with_o it_o as_o derive_v their_o religion_n from_o they_o both_o the_o apostle_n take_v care_n to_o clear_a christianity_n from_o the_o aspersion_n and_o therefore_o instruct_v the_o faithful_a to_o obey_v secular_a power_n not_o by_o constraint_n or_o force_n propter_fw-la iram_fw-la as_o they_o phrase_v it_o but_o for_o conscience_n because_o such_o be_v the_o will_n of_o god_n who_o have_v give_v they_o the_o power_n they_o have_v this_o be_v the_o matter_n of_o fact_n consider_v now_o how_o bellarmin_n handle_v it_o there_o be_v indeed_o say_v he_o express_v mention_v make_v of_o king_n because_o at_o that_o time_n it_o be_v very_o necessary_a lest_o they_o shall_v have_v hinder_v the_o preach_v of_o the_o gospel_n but_o yet_o the_o apostle_n mean_v no_o more_o than_o that_o every_o one_o shall_v be_v subject_a to_o his_o own_o lawful_a superior_a be_v not_o this_o to_o say_v that_o the_o apostle_n be_v not_o man_n of_o that_o holy_a simplicity_n which_o be_v believe_v for_o it_o be_v plain_o to_o go_v about_o to_o overreach_v prince_n with_o fair_a word_n to_o seek_v