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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A61119	Reasons for vnitie, peace, and love with an answer (called Shadows flying away) to a book of Mr. Gataker, one of the assembly, intituled, A mistake, &c. and the book of the namelesse author called, The plea, both writ against me : and a very short answer, in a word, to a book by another namelesse author called, An after-reckoning with Master Saltmarsh, and to Master Edward his second part called, Gangrena, directed to me ... / by John Saltmarsh ...	Saltmarsh, John, d. 1647.	1646 (1646)	Wing S496; ESTC R11619	30,054	33

REASONS FOR Vnitie Peace and Love WITH AN ANSWER Called Shadows flying away to a Book of Mr Gataker one of the Assembly intituled A Mistake c. and the Book of the namelesse Author called The Plea both writ against me And a very short ANSWER in a word to a Book by another namelesse Author called An After-reckoning with Master Saltmarsh and to Master Edward his Second Part called Gangrena directed to me Wherein many things of the Spirit are discovered Of Faith and Repentance c. Of the Presbytery And some things are hinted to the undeceiving of people in their present Ministers By John Saltmarsh Preacher of the Gospell Acts 7. 26. Sirs ye are brethren why do ye wrong one to another LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS 1646. Reader IN this Answer to Master Gataker I conceive thou hast a taste of the true Notion both of the sweetnesse and glory of the Gospell Imprimatur IOHN BACHILER May 26. 1646. To the Right Honourable the Lord Maior Aldermen and the Common-Councell of the City of LONDON Right Honourable MAny who call themselves Ministers and Prophets of God accuse us of Heresie and Schism before ye But I hope ye will take notice they are but men as we are and of like passions with us neither Apostles nor Prophets of the first Baptism or gifts of the Spirit Yet if the Priests and Elders or any Oratour as Tertullus accuse Paul to Festus or Agrippa he cannot but a●swer for himselfe I have but few words to speak to ye Noble Citizens That ye would in that Spirit which is of God judge the Doctrines of Men and single them from Traditions Customes Councels Synods Interests Ye are bid to try the spirits whether they be of God or no Try whether it be according to God for some Ministers and thse not Apostles to call others Hereticks who beleeve not as they beleeve What will become then of the strong and weak Christian of the children fathers and young men Trye whether they ought to p●ea●h to ye to suppresse all but themselves since they are not infallible but may erre and where is the Remedy then if they erre Who shall judge the Iudges Try whether this make for unity of spirit to allow no more fellowship nor brotherhood then in forme and practice And what will they have ye do if Formes should alter For States may change England hath done so Try whether this make for the glory of Christians to persecute or banish as they would have ye all but themselves May they not as well tell ye that God hath made England only for men of the Presbytery or one opinion to live in and worship in And where find they that Trye whether some by their daily Invectives from Presse and Pulpit against Independents and others bring not in the Popish Designe in another Forme to divide the godly party both Presbyterian and Independent and so to ruine all Try if all such Doctrine as they commonly preach and write to ye resolve not it selfe most into their own interests profits place power And what doth the Scripture and Histories tell ye of that And now I have done praying for ye That ye may be still a free City and not disputed by the miscelany of Logick and Divinity of some into bondage That ye may be still populous and not your streets growing with grasse through any unneighbourly Principle of Persecution which must needs lose ye many and much resort from this famous City under the name of Hereticks not letting such live beside them That ye may be a peaceable City and not raised up and dashed by any breath of men against the other and greater part of your selves the Parliament England hath long enough broken it selfe against its own walls let it now be our strength to sit still and to stand still and see salvation And since the Lord hath let the most of the successe of the Presbytery which is so much desired come thorow the hands of those and that Army whom they have told ye over often were Hereticks let this be but taken notice on by ye what God hath told ye in the successe of that Army and I trust ye will never regard the Messengers by whose hands the Presbytery in a kind came by beating them out of doores Thus rests he Who would rejoyce in your Peace Prosperity and GOSPELL-unity JOHN SALTMARSH REASONS FOR Vnity Peace Love THe Nations and Kingdoms of the world shall bring their glory to Christ and be at peace with all his according to the Prophesies Isai. 11 6 7 8. Revel. 21. 26. Isai. 49. 23. And how happy is that Nation or Kingdom which shall be first in this truth and have rather a peace of Prophesie than Policie a peace of God than man How happy shall this Kingdom be to fulfill any of this Prophesie of peace to one another and to the Saints That all Kingdoms and Nations and Princes and People prospered according to their love to Christ and his Pharaoh for Ioseph Ahasuerus for Mordecai Artaxerxes for Nehemiah and the people of the Iews and those Nations have been ever nations of bondage and tyranny to themselves which became so first to the Saints That Ierusalem hath been ever a burdensome stone and a cup of trembling to all that oppressed her and the stone cut out of the Mountaine without hands too mighty for all the Mountaines of the world And the bloud of the Saints where-ever spilled and whereever found in literall or mysticall Babylon never left crying till that very place had bloud given them to drink for in her was found the bloud of the Prophets That the true Peace indeed is more spirituall and comprehensive then men usually think it and takes in severall natures nations people languages of every tongue and kindred so severall spirits consciences judgements opinions not a Peace only of such or such an Opinion not a Peace only of such or such a Society of such or such a Body not a Peace of Presbytery only nor Independency only nor Anabaptisme only but a Peace of All so far as that all or many may be one which is that unity of spirit in the bond of peace That true Peace is an enemy to all selfish interest and selfish preservation and selfish unity or selfish peace because that when Unity Peace Preservation gathers up from that common interest Peace and Unity to which they are appointed by the law of Creation and Institution and becomes only their own and not anothers their own peace their own unity their own preservation they breaking that law of the Spirit and Communion of their first Creation each perishes in their single private and unwarrantable way of saving themselves And the eye saith unto the hand I have no need of thee and the head to the foot I have no need of you That there is no such impossibility of being one under divers Opinions

reckoned for Christs Congregations as all Parishes are To the Ninth That some of the dissenting Brethren hold Synods Ordinances of God and this Assembly so I know some of our Brethren for the Presbytery hold Infant-Baptism unlawfull and Antichristian and hath better defended it then any yet whom I have read hath answered it And for this Assembly to be an Ordinance of God I thought that had been but an Ordinance of Parliament and stood by that power by which they were called by at first Yet deny not but that consultations for holy ends about the things of God are lawfull by the Word To the Tenth That Presbyteries because not infallibly gifted are of no Divine Right and so concludes aga●nst all Presbyteries and Ordinances Yea against all your Presbyteries to be of Divine Right as the first But our question is rather whether the first was any such Presbytery as you now affirme and for ought I see you can no more prove the truth of the Presbytery then in the sense you take it then your Presbytery to be one with it one only in Divine Right not in Divine power or gifts And how are these things sutable To the Eleventh That I contradict the pure Government I plead for by pleading for yours as prudentiall It were true indeed if I pleaded it in mine own behalfe I plead it occasionally for them who will needs have what the State cannot in conscience allow them and yet will not practice any other but what the State shall give them and so trouble both the State and their own consciences and would cast a snare upon both Brethren if ye will needs have the State to allow ye your Presbytery Why are ye not content with what they can allow ye If ye will have a Divine Right which they cannot allow ye why do ye trouble them and sit down under a bondage of your own making But how justly is this yoke come upon you who would have brought a worse upon your Brethren To the Twelfth That the first Presbyters and Apostles c. were not infallible as in divers practices What is this to the truth and gifts they taught and taught by They failed as men but not as Apostles They erred as they were Peter and Paul but not as moved by the Holy Ghost Take heed by opening the Apostles failings to justifie your own you speake not worse Blasphemy then you name in me and make that glorious Word of Scripture questionable which they preached like the words that your selves preach from that Scripture To the Thirteenth That to say the Apostles did advise in place of the written Word is Blasphemy What Blasphemy is it to say that the same Word which they writ and preached the same Spirit spake in them and spake the same truth in them which writ in them And is it so with any of your Presbyters Therefore till the same Spirit speak truth in them so as in the first Presbyters will they challenge the same right the same power Will they have a Divine Right acted by a spirit lesse Divine then the Right To the Fourteenth That the Presbyterians in France Scotland and the Netherlands do not embroyle Kingdoms There is good reason in France they cannot if they would I wish you would walke under the Magistrate as they do and as your dissenting Brethren here and not make him serve you And in the Netherlands do you as they do there and leave your Brethren to the like liberty that is in that State and they will not grudge ye your Presbytery amongst your selves For Scotland they are Brethren I wish no worse to then Truth and Peace and power above their Ministers To that of excommunicating kingdoms being a bugbear You do well to say so till ye be established but you that dare so capitulate with States whom ye are called to advise in things onely propounded what more may be expected upon all your principles I leave to be judged To the Fifteenth That they aske not of the State a power but a liberty to exercise that power Well and will ye trouble the State no further Will ye not intreat them to punish such a one and such a one whom ye judge an Hereticke and a Schismaticke to fine and imprison when you have done with them at Excommunication May the State be quiet if they say to ye go all that are so perswaded as you are and worship and practise as your dissenting brethren and other Saints and trouble not us to provide for your Tythes and Rule for you in things of your own cognizance over Consciences But you would onely have liberty from them your power is of Christ But you cannot so cleare things as you thinke If your power and liberty respectively to your selves and the Magistrate be so distinct why have ye mingled them and confounded them all this while Why make ye the truth and power ye have from Christ wait so at Parliament-doores as Master Case said if the powers on earth will not do for Christ as you would make the people beleeve Why do not ye your selves more for Christ Is it better to obey God or man Thus the more ye would single your selves in your power and right from the Magistrate the more your practice makes an argument against ye To the Sixteenth That I should say In a sound Church Church-officers shall excommunicate and judge of offences and in an unsound the Magistrate and the Inference there I answer I spake and writ so according to your principles not to my owne Nor can I see how you can chalenge such a one entire and simple Discipline exclusively to the Magistrate upon no more true pure and Scripture-principles then your present Presbytery is And I conceive the powers on earth or in the world have to do in every Government that is more of the world then of Christ For if ye exclude them from a part in that Government which is partly prudential and of man you exclude them from off part of their owne Kingdome which is theirs by inheritance and of more Divine Right then I conceive yours to be And whereas you would make us beleeve you stand onely in a pure Gospel strength and power and desire no more of the Magistrate but liberty can this be so in truth when all is esteemed invalid and nothing if the Magistrates power doth not actuate the Ministers power I know you may distinguish of powers Scholastically and Spheres of working for those powers and so tell the Magistrate and us he doth but act in his Sphere when he acts in yours and indeed acts yours making it to be stronger then it is in it selfe But is not his Civil power that which puts life as you think into all your Presbytery Yet he must think he doth but as a Magistrate still as if so be that the Magistrate were made to be rods in the hands of the Church and Swords to be drawn by them and Iron whips at their

as we are made beleeve no more then there was for those that eat flesh and those that eat herbs for those that regarded a day and those that regarded it not for those that used milke and those that eat stronger meat for those that were zealous of the Law and those that were more in the Gospell to be one or together or to please one another to edefication Did Paul bid the eaters of flesh call the eaters of herbs hereticks or them that regarded a day the others that regarded it not hereticks or them that were zealous of the Law them that were of the Gospell Heretickes or thus Flesheaters and Day-regarders and Legalists as we doe Presbyterians Independents Anabaptists That there is so much in every one of these wherein they appeare to stand in need of one another that the Presbyterian cannot say I have no need of the Independent nor the Independent I have no need of the Presbyterian nor either of them say we have no need of you Anabaptist For the Presbyterian may need the Independent because he is for a purer Communion of Saints then he They both the Anabaptist because he baptizeth Beleevers as the Apostles alwayes did They both the Seekers because none of them have these Ordinances by the first patterne in the Word as by Apostleship and Baptisme of Spirit Nor these the Presbyterians because there may be some gift some power of the Spirit some principle of Administration in them which may help the Body and the Common-wealth or Parliament All these because they are all members of the same State That Love is the more excellent way revealed then either the way of Gifts or Ordinances and therefore no gift or ordinance is to be preferred before love Love neither envies nor vaunts nor behaves it self unseemly but beareth all things and hopeth all things and this is that love which is of God and extends it self as God and comprehends and embraces men not as this man or that man meerely not as a man of this or that opinion but because it is love from the fountaine of infinite love it flowes upon all and hath a kind of peace with all and loves all God is love and therefore just and unjust good and bad are taken into something of him seeing he giveth to all things l●fe and breath and all things and the more this love is amongst men the more they love as God and the more large in love and universall in love That love which is only to one kind is but low narrow and naturall the meer love of creatures as creatures but that love which can love those of other kinds as Presbyterian Anabaptist Independent is not that love of a creature only so as the more we love any that are not as we are the lesse we love as men and the more as God That the first and most glorious and spirituall unity is that of spirit and therefore things that are outward formall and perish with using nor any Ordinance were ever made an hinderance to that unity let not Christians think they cannot be One nor in any communion of spirit till they be like one another in the body first and in the Ordinance first which it may be they never shall be for we see God hath hid outward Ordinances deepest from discovery so as they that find most find but pieces and parcels and one one part and another another part and another another part all finde not all because all should not want one another and we find these things last because there was lesse need how many hundred yeares from Christ and nothing of these yet Christ was knowne and some of the more spirituall glory of Christ and if Christians should not be one till they be like one another how little would the peace be even as little as that unity they contend for and what peace would it be but that of flesh and forme the peace of Ordinances not of Spirit I desire this may be considered that according to the first patterne the Baptisme of the Spirit or Gifts and Ordinances were together never asunder from the Apostles times to the falling away and let there be a Word held out for Ordinances by themselves without the like Gifts or else let us be in more unity of Spirit then we are Christians are truly so alike and so one and the same as they are one in Christ in union and spirit one in God as they partake of the Divine nature of the Image of Christ as they are branches in the same Vine members in the same body so God loves all his as they are of him born of the incorruptible seed being the glory of the second Adam quickned by that life that eternall life God looks not nor loves not as men are Presbyterians or Independents or Anabaptists we commonly love so who begin to love at the outward man before the inward God loves us first as in Christ and loves us because in Christ God loves according to the figure of himself in us and so we should love one another if we will love according to God let Papists love Papists only and Prelates love Prelates only because they are so let us love according to that of spirit we discerne by the same spirit in each according to that of love faith meeknesse patience purity faithfulnesse glory which are the fruits of the Spirit let us love as we judge and that is in spirit as spiritually discerning according to fruits of righteousnesse and holinesse not according to this and that forme which is carnall for as he is not a Jew which is one outwardly no more is he a Christian which is one outwardly circumcision and Christianity is not of the letter but of the spirit so as loving thus we should not thinke nor speake against these and these because they are not Presbyterians as we are because they beleeve not as we beleeve and think not as we think Were it not madnesse to fight because we are not like one another in the face in feature in complection in disposition in a word because we are not alike in body and what were it lesse to fight with one another because we are not alike in the Spirit in soule in judgement in conscience in opinion If the whole body were the eye where were the hearing If the whole were hearing where were the smelling The lesse we endeavour this bond of peace the more we shall take in new fuell to our old fire the more advantage and opportunity will be opened to let in the old remainders of the war amongst us which shall be as a train of powder to kindle us into new contentions and thus new divisions will spring out from the ashes of the old and those whom we conquer one day will be conquerors amongst us another day and we shall not know them from some of our selves and all our victories and conquests will be but the enemies design of recruiting our misery

they whom we subdue finding the veine of enmity running through Presbytery and Independency will soone gird themselves to battle in those Notions and we shall never want enough of Presbytery and Independency till they undo us after our own fashion and if they cannot kill us as Cavaliers and Malignants in this new way they may kill us as Presbyters and Independents And surely they will have so much Iesuitisme as never to let us starve for Heeticks and Schismaticks the Iesuits run commonly over to the Lutherans and raile there against Calvinists and so they never want matter for division in Germany it is the great design of Conclaves and Popish Councels to practice upon States in their own religions and customes and to turne us back into Popery by being Protestants amongst us and to raise up new troubles by changing the old and by transfiguring their enmity Satan himselfe can be an Angell of light when he cannot passe as a power of darknesse and where works he thus but in the children of disobedience And Brethren let us not let our enemies in at back-doores of Presbytery and Independency let us not undo our selves when God would save us let us see that these workings are but the old designe in a new Forme The last reason is People are not wholly undeceived in their present Ministers And to that end consider 1. That these Ministers who tell them thus and preach thus are neither as Aaron was nor as the Prophets were nor as the Apostles were nor have such an infallible gift nor spirit of discerning so as their words and Sermons are no more to be beleeved then the words of the Scripture proves and people are to trie all and to trie spirits and so trust and now friends not beleeve Sermons too suddenly because their Sermons are not very Scripture but interpretation to their light and light may be darkned with carnall reason and interest 2. That these Ministers who preach so for Presbytery through bloud and persecution now did but a few yeers since preach as confidently for the Service-book for Bishops or against the Presbytery our Brethren of Scotland 3. That these Ministers that preach nothing but Presbitery Government and Divine Right yet never tryed it in their lives nor lived in the experience of it but have it by report and by Idaea or modell or Landship from other Countreys and some specious Scriptures 4. That these Ministers who would presse the Covenant against Popery and Episcopacy root and branch yet will be content though Bishops be unlawfull to say the Bishops hands which ordained them are not and that Bishops could make them Ministers of Christ though they were Antichrist themselves and that Episcopacy could make a lawfull Ministery 5. That these Ministers who preached against Deanes and Archdeacons and Prelates as unlawfull can be content very well with their maintenance their tythes are not popish nor the profits nor revenues are not against Covenant people look a little into these men that hold there is no popery in any thing that makes them rich or maintaines them is this the doctrine of the crosse and selfe-deniall 6. That these Ministers who preached against Pluralities yet now a mastership of a Colledge and a great Living or two of some hundreds a yeer with Chaplainships as they commonly have and two or three great Lectures in conjunction with a great Living is not Plurality nor must be accounted so Nay for a Presbyter to have two livings is no plurality now but for a Prelate to have them is undoubtedly so By the same tenure the Prelates formerly lived at Court and in Lords houses and held Livings as they in the Assembly now by their attendance there 7. That these Ministers who pretend to so much light and certainty of truth yet after two yeers reasoning and proofe have not been able to prove their way of Government from Scripture so as there are so many excellent Quaeries propounded from the Honourable Parliament which lye unanswered unlesse the Ministers intend to resolve the Parliament some other way by making the tumults more and their answers lesse for their books and Sermons speak no lesse Was ever Reformation but where the Red Dragon is in the Pulpit preached for in so much bloud and I pray friends are all things so true as they tell you our greatest and wisest Counsell can see no such thing in it yet and since you expect your Government from the Parliament I pray go not before them in your judgements but stay and examine as they do 8. That the mystery of the Popish Ministery hath ever been to lead the people and stir up the people either by merit or martyrdome or ministery and therefore the poore sou●es of England had given away all their Lande once to Monks and Friers and would all fight for the Holy Land and the Kings and Princes their power to do with as they pleased and all was as the Priest said for Religion too all as the Holy Church said and now merit martyrdome and ministery carry all before them yet in some measure though not in so much England hath seen so much as to take much of their lands again and Tythes again from the Ministery and the Parliaments have seen so much as a little to debate Religion with the Synods and this Parliament hath seen more by how much they have reasoned disputed quaeried with their Ministers When did ever England see so much liberty before when durst Parliaments talke with their Ministers till now And friends let not the old Popish things of merit martyrdome and ministery carry us away as they did I remember an excellent saying reported of Generall Lesley to our Nobles and Gentry when they were ready to fight for Bishops to this purpose Shall we lose our bloud for so many fat Swingers And I pray are not these the Sons of the Swingers according to ordination ordained and called by Bishops Is our bloud too good for Bishops and not for Presbyters as some think 9. That these Ministers who seem to close with those whom they so lately called and preached against as Malignants and Cavaliers yet cannot love them or use them otherwise then in designe to help up with the Government and then leave them und persecute them under the same Notion with us as Hereticks using them now as the Israelites did the Gibeonites as hewers of wood and drawers of water and then what will become of these poore soules who having helped up the Presbyters into the roome of the Bishops to be sure they shall neither have Common-prayer-book nor Surplice nor Bishops nor Sacraments for the Directory shall keep out the Common-Prayer-book and Presbyters shall keepe out Bishops and Elders shall keep out all Communicants of such and such sins and Vniformity will keep out Conformity And if ye hope for better by the bustle and differenc●s and sideings Issues and successe are in Gods hand not in ours Ye may know when ye

might not have taken you to be more a friend to Truth then I see you are forgive me this injury as the Apostle saies if I accounted you better then you desire to be Love hopeth all things and beleeveth all things And Paul it seems was better perswaded of Agrippa then there was cause and quoted some of the Heathen Poets better then they intended them as it seems I have done with you that being the greatest thing you lay to my charge Master Gataker 1 That our Antinomian Free grace is not the same with that of the Prophets in the Old Testament and the Apostles in the New 2 That in saying the Old Testament was rather a draught of a Legall dispensation then an Evangelicall or Gospell-one was to taxe the Ministery of the Prophets for no Free-grace 3 That in saying the Ministers now by the qualifications they preach do over-heat Free-Grace as your poore soules cannot take it doth make the Prophets Iuglers and deluders of the people Answer To your first That our Antinomian Free Grace is not the same with the Prophets and Apostles Why do you tell us of Antinomians of Prophets and Apostles Free-grace It is not the Free-grace of any of these Free-grace is of God in Jesus Christ Prophets and Apostles are but dispencers of it and Ambassadours of it and Ministers of it and yet Ambassadours not in the same habit The Prophets preached Grace in a rough and hairy garment or more Legally the Apostles in a more clear and bright habit in the revelation of the mystery of Christ The Law was given by Moses but Grace and Truth by Iesus Christ I could as easily say Master Gatakers Free-grace and the Legalists Free-grace as he sayes Our Antinomian Free-grace but such words and reproaches make neither you nor I speake better truth To your Second That in saying the Old-Testament straine was rather Legall then Gospell taxes the Ministery of the Prophets for no Free-grace That is according to your Inference only Because the Spirit sayes the Law was given by Moses therefore will you put upon the Spirit that Moses taught or gave out nothing but Law● Because I say The Old Testament was a Legall ministration therefore do I say there was no Free-grace in it or doe I not rather say Therefore it was Free-grace legally dispenced or preached or ministred Would not such Inferences be bad dealing with the Spirit and will it be faire dealing with me I wonder you who pretend to write against me as having not dealt justly with your sense will deale so unjustly with mine and commit the same sin your self in the very time of your reproving mine You may see what this Logick hath brought you to To deceive your selfe as well as your neighbour Can you cast out my mo●e and behold a beame in your own eye I have printed all you quoted let the Reader judge from this and compare it with the rest of my Book The whole frame of the Old Testament was a draught of Gods anger at sin And God in this time of the Law appeared only as it were upon tearmes and conditions of reconciliation and all the Worship then and acts of Worship then as of Prayer Fasting Repentance c. went all this way according to God under that appearance And in this straine saith he runnes all the Ministery of the Prophets too in their exhortations to Duty and Worship as if God were to be appeased and entreated and reconciled and his love to be had in way of purchase by Duty and Doing and Worshipping So as under the Law the efficacy and power was put as it were wholly upon the Duty and Obedience performed as if God upon the doing of such things was to be brought into tearmes of peace mercy and forgivenesse so as their course and service then was as it were a w●rking for life and reconciliation Do not these words and termes inserted As it were and in the way and as if and is it were cleare me from such positive and exclusive assertions of Free-Grace as you would make me speake To the Third That in saying the Preachers with their qualifications over-heate Free-grace I doe by that make the Prophets deluders of the people c. I answer That way of preaching the Prophets used pressing as you say Repentance Reformation Humiliation and with Commination and the Law c. was but according to the way and method and straine the Spirit taught them under the Old Testament but if the Prophets should have held forth Jesus Christ under the New Testament and when Christ was manifested in the flesh with such vails over him and so much Law over him as they did before they had sinned against the glory of that ministration as well as some of you who bring Christ back againe under the cool shadow of the Law and make that Sun of Righteousnesse that he warmes not so many with the love of him as he would doe if ye would let them behold with open face as in a glasse the glory of the Lord and if you would give his beams more liberty to shine upon them doth not the ministration of the Spirit exceed in glory Nor were the Prophets deluders of the people then because it was the peoples time of Pupillage and being under Bondage they were shut up under the Law till faith came they were under Tutors and Governors till the time appointed So as that was truth and right dispensation in them to preach so much of the Law of curse and judgement c. as they did and of Repentance and Reformation in that straine they did But in ye who pretend to preach Christ come in the flesh ye who pretend to be Preachers in the Kingdome of God and so greater then the greatest Prophet then he that was more then a Prophet in ye such preaching were delusion because it were not as the truth is in Christ nor according to that glory of the Gospell to that grace revealed to that manifestation of Christ in the flesh to that ministration of glory but rather to those deceitfull workers the Apostle speaks on to those that troubled them with words subverting their souls who preached Law and Gospell Circumcision and Christ Master Gattaker 1 That we gird at those that bid men repent and be humbled and be sorry for sinnes and pray c. as Legall Teachers 2 That Christ preached repentance humiliation self-deniall conversion renouncing all in purpose this is not the same Gospell with that they preach as in Free-grace pag. 125 126 152 153 163 191 193. Answer To your first for our girding at those that bid men repent and be humbled c. as Legall teachers If ye presse repentance and humiliation legally why wonder ye at such words as Legall teachers Will ye doe ill and not be told of your faults must we prophesie smooth things to you and say ye are able Ministers of the New Testament when we are perswaded that truth is

detained in unrighteousnesse We blame not any that bid men repent or be sorry for sinne c. be humble c. if they preach them as Christ and the Apostles did as graces flowing from him and out of his fulnesse and not as springings of their owne and waters from their fountaines as if the teachers like Moses would make men beleeve they could with such Rods and exhortations smite upon mens hearts as upon rocks and bring waters out of them be they never so hard and stony We agree with you that repentance and sorrow for sinne and humiliation and self-deniall are all to be preached and shall contend with you who preaches them most and clearest but then because Iohn said Repent and Christ said Repent and Peter said Repent are we to examine the Mystery no farther Know we not that the whole Scripture in its fulnesse and integrality reveales the whole truth and must we not looke out and compare Scripture with Scripture spirituall things with spirituall and so finding out truth from the degrees to the glory and fulnesse of it preach it in the same glory and fulnesse as we find it We heare Christ preaching before the Spirit was given Repent and we find when the Spirit was given Christ is said to give Repentance to Israel and forgivenesse of sinnes and shall we not now preach Jesus Christ and Repentance in Jesus Christ the fountaine of repentance the author of repentance and yet preach repentance and repentance thus and repentance in the glory of it more The Apostle in one place saith Beleeve in the Lord Iesus Christ and thou shalt be saved and in another place He is the author and finisher of our Faith Shall we not now preach Iesus Christ first and Iesus Christ the fountaine and Iesus Christ the author of faith and beleeivng and yet preach faith yea and thus preach faith faith in the glory faith in the revelation of it faith from Christ and faith in Christ One Scripture tels us godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation c. And another tels us They shall look on him whom they have peirced and they shall mourne for him c. Shall we not now preach sorrow for sin took from Christ Christ piercing and wounding and melting the heart Christ discovering sin and powring water upon drie ground this is sorrow for sin in the glory of the Gospell One Scripture bids He that will follow me let him deny himselfe and take up his crosse Another saith It is he that worketh in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure and I am able to do all things through Christ that strenghneth me Shall we not now preach Christ our strength and Christ our selfe-deniall and is not this selfe-denyall in the glory of the Gospell So as the difference betwixt us is this Ye preach Christ and the Gospell and the graces of the Spirit in the parts as ye find it we dare not speak the mystery so in peices so in halfe and quarter revealings we see such preaching answers not the fulnesse of the Mystery the riches of the Gospell the glory of the New Testament We find that in the fulnesse of the New Testament Christ is set up as a Prince as a King as a Lord as a crown and glory to every grace and gift nay he is made not only righteousnesse but sanctification too and so we preach him Whereas to preach his riches without him his graces by themselves single and private as repent and beleeve and be humbled and deny your selves ye make the gifts lose much of their glory Christ of his praise and the Gospell of its fulnesse To the Second of your alleadging my Book in such and such pages as another Gospell from Christs I shall print them as you quote them and with them I desire these things to be considered together with the other parts of my Booke and the scope of it which you have detained in unrighteousnesse All these I freely open to the judgment of all who are Spirituall Master Gataker 1 That John Christs and his Apostles Method were all one for matter and manner for they all preached Faith and Repentance and yet we are ●a●ed for these things as Legalists by this Author 2 John and the rest preached life and salvation upon condition of Faith and Repentance and Obedience 3 Where we find Faith only preached it is because we have but the Summaries or heads of their Sermons Answer To the first that I taxe you for preaching Faith and Repentance a● the Apostles did and John did as Legalists Nay I tax ye only because ye preach it not as they did according to the full revelation of it in the New Testament but you preach it only as you find it in their Summaries and in the briefe narration of their Doctrine and this you ought not to do if you will preach according to that glorious Analogie of the Gospell and to this I shall only bring in your own words to convince you and so from your own mouth condemn you You say of the Apostles We have but Summaries of them as in Acts 2. 40. and 16. 32. and you knowing this preach only by their first Methods and Summaries not looking to the revelation of the mystery which the Apostle saies is now made manifest And for Iohns manner of preaching his Preaching is to be no more an example to you then his Baptism You know the least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater then he To the second That Faith Repentance and Obedience were conditions of life and salvation Why keep you not to the Forme of wholesome words in Scripture Where doth the Scripture call these conditions of salvation They that are Christs do beleeve and repent and obey but do they bele●ve repent and obey that they may be Christs Hath not God chosen us in him predestinated us unto the adoption of children in Jesus Christ But I know you wil say That when the Apostles did beleeve repent and obey it is by consequence as much as a condition and the same with a condition But answer The interpreting the Spirit thus in the letter and in consequence hath much darkned the glory of the Gospell When some of Christs Disciples took his words as you do under a condition Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man c. the words saith he that I speake are Spirit Consider but what 〈◊〉 you bring the Gospell into first you make life appearing to be had in the Covenant of Grace as at first in the Covenant of Works Do this and live so beleeve repent obey and live thus runs your Doctrine nar can you with all your distinctions make Faith in this consideration lesse then a worke and so put Salvation upon a condition of works againe Is this Free-Grace or But you say Faith is a gift freely given of God and here is Free-grace still But I pray Is this any more Free-Frace respectively

Christ and not seeking your own things not making a gaine of godlinesse Whether all your Fastings and Repentance were from true meltings of heart sound humiliation or because the State called for it and constrained it Whether your praying and preaching was not much of it Self of Invention of Parts of Art of Learning of seeking praise from men Oh should the light of the Spirit come in clearnesse and glory upon your spirit Oh! how much of Self of Hypocrisie of Vanity of Flesh of Corruption would appeare how would all be unprofitable For my part I cannot be so uncharitable but to wish you a better assurance then what you and your Brethren can find in your own works or righteousnesse For it is not what we approve but what God approves is accepted And I am perswaded however you are now loth it may be to lose reputation by going out of an old track of Divinity as Luther once yet when once your spirit begins to be unclothed of forms of darknesse and art of self-righteousnesse and that you with open face behold the glory of the Lord you will cry out Wo is me I am undone for I have seen the Lord and Lord depart from me for I am a sinfull creature and What went I out to see My owne unrighteousnesse or rather A Reed shaken with the winde An Answer to a Book intituled A Plea for Congregationall Government or A Defence of the Assemblies Petition c. YOu write thus 1 That the independents confesse you a true Church and Minstery 2 Those that are ordained by Bishops may be true Ministers else how am I a Preacher or they true Ministers 3 Succession is not necessary to the essence of a true Ministery 4 If no true Ministery no true Baptisme 5 Must not there be persons ordaining and persons ordained And so the dissenting Brethren held 6 That you abuse the Assembly in ●●ing their Humble Advice touching the Divine Right of a Congregationall Presbyteriall and not of the other The Independents assert a Divine Right there and in Synods too as they do They hold a Divine Right in one as well as the other 7 Their ordination by Bishops though it should be null yet they have all you can alleadge necessary to a Preacher 8 Parishes here are but as in New-England as in Jerusalem Antioch 9 Some of the dissenting Brethren hold Synods an holy Ordinance of God and this Assembly so to be 10 If no Presbyteries must be of Divine Right because not infallibly gifted this concludes against Presbyteries and Ordinances 11 If you would have them content with a mixed power partly prudentiall because of their mixt ●●ointing you contradict that pure one you plead for 12 The Apostles and Elders and Angels of the Churches of Asia were not infallible as in divers practices 13 To say the Apostles did advise in place of the written Word is little lesse then Blasphemy 14 The Presbyterians in France and Scotland and the Netherlands do 〈◊〉 so imbroyle Kingdoms The feare of excommunicating Parliaments and Kingdoms is but a Bugbeare 15 They aske not of the State an Ecclesiasticall power but a liberty to exercise that power 16 Hath Christ said that in a sound Church Church-Officers shall excommunicate and in an unsound the Magistrate shall do it 17 He may in time say as much against Equity and justice living upon voyces in Assemblies as against Truth Answer To the first That the Independents confesse you a true Church and Ministery You are not to prove what others confesse or hold you to be but what you are indeed according to Truth Nor do I contend with those that hold you so but with you that hold your selves so as the Spirit to the Laodiceans Thou sayest thou art full c. and behold thou art poore c. To the second That they ordained by Bishops are true Ministers as the Independents and I a Preacher for all that Ordination If you meane that the Bishops Ordination makes not one for ever a false or Antichristian Minister I grant it because it is no marke to them that renounce it Babylon is no more Babylon to them that are gone out of it But what is this to your Ministery or Ordination who are yet under the Marke and Babylonish Ordination Renounce it come out as the Spirit cals ye and then your being Antichristian is no more to ye then to the Ephesians that they should be lesse light because they were once darknesse or lesse alive because they were once dead To the third That Succession is not necessary to a true Ministery It is both true and false in severall acceptions When there was a true power they ordained others and others them There was succession But that being lost under Antichrist so far as visibly to derive it to us there can be no such true visible Succession appearing And yet you that pretend to stand by the first power must prove your Succession if you will prove your power To the Fourth If no true Ministery no true Baptism For that as you please I dare not exalt the truth of your Baptism above that of your Ministery no more then you To the Fifth The dissenting Brethren hold there must be persons ordaining and ordained as well as we Ye● but do they hold Bishops ordaining and Presbyters ordained by Bishops and Presbyters of their ordaining ordaining others as you do To the Sixth of my unjust citing the Assemblies Modell or Humble Advice and that there is no more Divine Right asserted in the Congregationall Presbytery then in the Classicall c. which is done so by the dissenting Brethren I answer Let the Modell be printed to the world to end the difference betwixt you and me And for the Divine Right of the one and the other I am of your mind they are able to prove both alike of Divine Right that is in their Presbytery The one is no more of Divine Right then the other and neither of them of any And for the dissenting Brethren it is not them but you I deale with Why come you under their shadow in a storme and yet will let them have no liberty under yours but would turne us all abroad as Hereticks and Schismaticks To the Seventh Though the Ordination by Bishops be null yet they have the other necessaries to a Preacher Will ye undertake for the Assembly they shall stand to this that all their former Ordination by Bishops is null If so we are agreed if not all their other necessaries are no more then Ahabs peace What peace saith Jehu so long as the whoredoms of thy mother Iezebell are alive So what Ministery so long as the whoredoms of Babylon yet remaine To the Eighth That the Parishes are but as in New-England as in Ierusalem c. I pray forbeare this it is too manifest an errour Are the Parishes of England and Churches of Ierusalm one and the same so discipled so constituted Were all of Ierusalem and Antioch