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A12919 A discourse wherin is debated whether it be expedient that the scripture should be in English for al men to reade that wyll Fyrst reade this booke with an indifferent eye, and then approue or condempne, as God shall moue your heart. Standish, John, 1507?-1570. 1554 (1554) STC 23207; ESTC S117827 41,170 164

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the vniuersall churche of Christ But therfore it may not be suffered The thirde probation THrough the damnable libertie of hauinge it in the vulgar tongue haue not all holye mysteries been despised Haue they not therby vtterly condemned all that hathe not been expressed in the letter of their Englishe Byble Haue they not made vs worse hereby then the Iewes To take all mysteries from vs excepte they be expressed in their Englishe ▪ The Iewes durst not expresse the highe name of God Iehoua But what mysterie durste not our men medle withal Yea reason turne tosse at their pleasure The Iewes had Cabala their tradition left among them by Moyses without writynge receyued as it were by hande from generation to generation concernynge the mysticall sense included in the wordes of scripture But through this damnable heresye our men haue whollye condemned all that is not expressed in the letter of theyr Englishe And yet S. Iohn sayde I had manye thinges to write vnto you neuerthelesse I woulde not write with paper and ynke but I truste to come and speake with you mouthe to mouth Aug. ad Ianu. yea and S. Augustine sayeth quae non sunt scripta sed tradita custodimus quae toto terrarum orbe obseruantur we kepe and obserue not only such thinges as be written but also traditions not written whiche be obserued in all places of christendome Agayne yf ye wil nothinge to be Gods word but that whiche is expressed in the letter written what say ye then to Moyses Were not the wordes of God spoken to him gods worde tyll they were written Wer not the wordes of God spoken to the Apostles gods word tyl they were written Christ in sayinge to Peter blessed arte thou c Mat. xvi declareth that that high mystery came into S. Peters heart as to the prince of Chap postles onelye by secret inspiration and not by the worde written And so doeth lykewise this that neyther Euangelist nor Apostle did euer by writing sende the faith to anye nation but where they were firste informed by preaching For faith commeth by hearynge sayeth Paule and not by writynge Rom. x. Furthermore Paule bad the Thessalonians as I sayde kepe the traditions whiche he had geuen them by mouth ii Thes ii because the wordes that he spake to the people by mouth our lord and vsed aboute the sacrament of the Altar or about the sacrament of baptisme who can shew the reason fully of all the wordes gestures orders questions and aunsweres there vsed And yet all these wee haue receiued of Christ and his Apostles Thus muche sayth Origene And here marke I beseche you of Origenes woordes whiche was liuīg wtin lxxxx yeres after saint Iohn the Euangelist that many suche traditions were left by Christ his Apostles which bee not in the Byble expressed and yet to be obserued of all faythful Catholike people Beside this what they wyl saye to manye thinges moe not expressed in Scripture and yet vnder the payne of damnation to be beleued I cannot tel as to the Baptim of infantes the .iii. persons in Trinitie to be of equall power and of one essence that God the Father is ingenitꝰ not begot the procedinge of the holye gost from the father the Sonne the deity equalitye of the Holy Goste with the father and the Sonne the obseruynge of the Sonday the order of our Crede the continuance of the virginite of our Lady that she is Theorocos mater dei the mother of God the receyuinge the Sacrament of thalter fasting the mixtinge water with wyne in the Chalice the Sonne to be consubstantial with the father that Christes soule descended in to hel the making of the signe of the Crosse the numbre of the Sacramentes that there be .ii. natures in Christe knit together in vnitate diuine supposite that Soules departinge hens streyght wayes haue the fruitiō of the deitye And that men and women haue power to ministre the Sacrament of Baptym It is not expressed in scripture neyther by commaundement coūsell licence or example what they will say to this gere I wot not but this one thynge I am wel assured of that hauīg the Scripture in Englishe hath brought tholy mysteries of God into contempte and hatred Where as the wisedome of God as S. Basil despiritu s●̄cto cap. xxvij Basill testifieth neuer wolde all the misteries of our faith to be put in writing thereby to be a laughinge stocke both to the Iewes and Gentils For if Christe himselfe were counted a sclaunder to the Iewes and folishnes to the Heathens how muche rather shal the high mysteries of our fayth so be counted being most harde to be perceyued † Mysterium nō est quod ad populares aures effertur patr●s ergo in occu●to ac silentio misterijs suam seruauere dignitatē Basi xxvii de spū sancto Agayne it is not a mystery sayeth he that is open to euery man or that is blowen in to euery mans eare Tholy Fathers euer kept tholy misteryes in most secrecy reuerencyng the dignitie therof S. Dionise Dioni cap. i. in celes hierarch Iren. lib. 3. ca 4 Epiphan cōtra Aeriū Tertul de cor mili Orig homil v in num Cypri de Lot pedū Hila in psal ij Ireneus Epiphanius Tertuliā Origen Ciprian and Hylari with one consent do firmelye establisshe this agaynste the approuers of thenglisshe translacions Yea and S. Basill dothe affirme that there be so manye mysteries without Scripture whiche must be credited that he can in no small time recite them al Deficier me dies inquit si ecclesiae mystria citra scriptū tradita pergam recensere Howe can it then be that the Englisshe Bible can continue many such mē taking occasion thereby to condemne al holy mysteries receiued by the Catholyke Churche euen from the begynninge S. Iohn testienge that so many moe thinges wer done that the whole world were not hable to conteme all if they were wryttē And s Paule bidding the Thessalonians as ye haue hearde obserue all his tradicions receyued by mouthe not by writyng sayeth Theophilact and yet aswel to be beleued as thother Yea and in the time of s Peter Linus Cletus Anacletus Clement Euaristus c. S. Iohns Gospell was not written but these men wyll nothing to be beleued but onlye that whiche is in their Englishe Byble so that all that time the Christians by this their iudgement should not haue ben boūd to beleue that whiche is now in S. Iohns Gospel bycause then it was not written Howe be it al faythfull people beleue that the Churche of Christe taught aboue .lx. yeres after Christes ascension all that is now in S. Iohns Gospell beinge yet not then written In the time our mother the Churche was a virgin I meane not corrupt nor adulterate with sundry heresies there were almost no scriptures of the new Testament in Paper and Inke All the monitions wordes and workes of Christe