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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A01736 A short treatise against the Donatists of England, whome we call Brownists Wherein, by the answeres vnto certayne writings of theyrs, diuers of their heresies are noted, with sundry fantasticall opinions. By George Giffard, Minister of Gods holy Word in Maldon. Gifford, George, d. 1620. 1590 (1590) STC 11869; ESTC S114289 90,151 124

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phrase_n of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o my_o next_o word_n where_o i_o say_v the_o reason_n why_o there_o be_v so_o many_o prayer_n prescribe_v in_o the_o book_n of_o the_o psalm_n be_v that_o whatsoever_o distress_n befall_v a_o man_n etc._n etc._n you_o reply_v you_o think_v i_o halt_v great_o that_o our_o question_n be_v about_o idolatrous_a leiturgy_n i_o seek_v to_o shroud_v myself_o under_o the_o use_n of_o canonical_a scripture_n indeed_o this_o will_v be_v a_o learned_a question_n whether_o idolatrous_a leiturgy_n be_v idolatry_n or_o whether_o it_o be_v not_o idolatry_n to_o pray_v a_o idolatrous_a prayer_n who_o will_v look_v for_o so_o childish_a a_o shift_n you_o know_v our_o question_n be_v about_o the_o read_n of_o a_o prayer_n when_o one_o pray_v and_o if_o it_o be_v not_o idolatry_n to_o use_v the_o prayer_n of_o the_o scripture_n even_o in_o their_o prescript_n form_n than_o all_o read_v prayer_n offer_v to_o god_n as_o a_o sacrifice_n be_v not_o idolatry_n i_o 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affect_v so_o much_o the_o phrase_n of_o speech_n as_o the_o true_a feel_v of_o our_o want_n he_o that_o have_v not_o the_o feel_v of_o his_o want_n in_o prayer_n but_o affect_v phrase_n be_v but_o a_o hypocrite_n but_o you_o be_v in_o a_o vain_a opinion_n if_o you_o think_v the_o use_n of_o the_o phrase_n and_o sentence_n of_o scripture_n be_v fit_o apply_v be_v any_o hindrance_n either_o to_o the_o feel_v or_o open_v our_o want_n because_o where_o skill_n or_o memory_n fail_v i_o will_v have_v they_o use_v the_o help_n of_o a_o book_n i_o be_o you_o fear_v papistical_o affect_v unto_o word_n and_o sentence_n i_o have_v already_o show_v that_o this_o be_v not_o to_o affect_v the_o word_n and_o sentence_n but_o the_o instruction_n the_o support_n and_o quicken_a which_o our_o faith_n receive_v by_o those_o word_n &_o sentence_n and_o this_o doctrine_n be_v not_o as_o you_o charge_v it_o disagrée_v from_o the_o counsel_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n which_o will_v we_o to_o continue_v in_o prayer_n to_o strive_v in_o prayer_n nor_o contrary_a to_o david_n which_o say_v o_o my_o soul_n &c_n &c_n nor_o to_o paul_n who_o teach_v that_o the_o spirit_n help_v our_o infirmity_n and_o make_v request_n for_o us._n but_o your_o doctrine_n which_o say_v we_o must_v continue_v in_o prayer_n therefore_o we_o may_v not_o use_v such_o help_n the_o spirit_n do_v help_v our_o infirmity_n and_o make_v request_n for_o we_o therefore_o we_o may_v not_o be_v holpen_v by_o the_o prayer_n or_o by_o the_o word_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n be_v fantastical_a for_o the_o holy_a ghost_n do_v help_v our_o infirmity_n and_o teach_v we_o to_o pray_v by_o the_o write_a word_n you_o think_v it_o be_v hypocritical_a worship_v of_o god_n to_o take_v help_n by_o a_o book_n when_o we_o know_v not_o what_o to_o ask_v if_o a_o man_n know_v not_o what_o to_o ask_v he_o shall_v be_v able_a to_o understand_v little_a by_o the_o book_n but_o a_o man_n may_v know_v what_o he_o shall_v ask_v and_o yet_o not_o so_o well_o able_a to_o express_v the_o same_o without_o help_n both_o for_o memory_n and_o fervency_n stint_a prayer_n you_o say_v be_v as_o cushion_n for_o idle_a papist_n hypocrite_n and_o atheist_n i_o grant_v that_o such_o people_n do_v abuse_v all_o the_o best_a thing_n shall_v the_o godly_a therefore_o be_v debar_v from_o the_o use_n i_o do_v teach_v that_o whether_o a_o man_n of_o himself_o pray_v without_o a_o book_n or_o upon_o a_o book_n if_o he_o pray_v not_o in_o spirit_n with_o faith_n he_o do_v but_o offer_v the_o sacrifice_n of_o fool_n his_o prayer_n be_v abominable_a therefore_o it_o be_v but_o your_o lavish_a speech_n when_o you_o say_v i_o give_v liberty_n to_o the_o lame_a sacrifice_n on_o the_o contrary_a if_o a_o man_n pray_v in_o faith_n upon_o a_o book_n or_o without_o a_o book_n it_o be_v true_a prayer_n and_o such_o as_o god_n hear_v god_n will_v have_v no_o strange_a fire_n put_v upon_o his_o altar_n say_v you_o i_o grant_v it_o be_v so_o but_o prayer_n 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sabaoth_n you_o grant_v it_o be_v at_o their_o meeting_n to_o magnify_v the_o praise_n of_o god_n &_o many_o other_o psalm_n but_o you_o demand_v what_o this_o make_v for_o stint_a leiturgy_n papistical_a and_o erroneous_a impose_v etc._n etc._n i_o say_v it_o make_v nothing_o at_o all_o for_o that_o which_o be_v papistical_a and_o erroneous_a but_o it_o proove_v that_o all_o read_v prayer_n be_v not_o idolatry_n and_o that_o it_o be_v no_o stint_n of_o the_o spirit_n to_o use_v a_o prescript_n form_n of_o prayer_n these_o fantasy_n of_o you_o be_v first_o confute_v thereby_o then_o next_o i_o argue_v thus_o if_o i_o may_v use_v a_o whole_a prayer_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o no_o idolatry_n than_o a_o prayer_n that_o be_v compose_v by_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o scripture_n may_v be_v use_v and_o no_o idolatry_n you_o deny_v that_o the_o argument_n draw_v from_o the_o use_n of_o the_o psalm_n do_v follow_v because_o prayer_n compose_v by_o man_n be_v not_o equal_a to_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n and_o so_o shut_v out_o all_o prayer_n if_o you_o mark_v well_o what_o you_o say_v that_o be_v frame_v by_o the_o preacher_n for_o let_v they_o be_v holy_a and_o good_a yet_o you_o may_v not_o set_v they_o as_o equal_v with_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n again_o you_o deny_v the_o argument_n by_o affirm_v that_o sing_v of_o psalm_n be_v no_o part_n of_o prayer_n but_o only_o for_o instruction_n and_o meditation_n you_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o prove_v this_o a_o little_a after_o and_o when_o i_o come_v to_o that_o you_o shall_v have_v answer_n the_o psalm_n 102._o you_o say_v be_v not_o a_o prayer_n of_o the_o church_n because_o it_o be_v say_v o_o lord_n hear_v my_o prayer_n and_o not_o o_o lord_n hear_v our_o prayer_n a_o poor_a shift_n when_o usual_o the_o church_n speak_v of_o herself_o in_o the_o singular_a number_n touch_v the_o blessing_n you_o say_v that_o form_n of_o word_n be_v not_o to_o tie_v they_o to_o use_v those_o word_n but_o after_o that_o manner_n which_o be_v manifest_o false_a touch_v the_o order_n of_o singer_n appoint_v by_o david_n i_o allege_v it_o to_o no_o such_o end_n as_o you_o seem_v to_o draw_v it_o unto_o but_o that_o in_o sing_v the_o psalm_n they_o do_v read_v they_o upon_o the_o book_n here_o now_o you_o do_v not_o only_o deny_v that_o sing_v of_o psalm_n be_v any_o part_n of_o prayer_n but_o also_o you_o will_v prove_v it_o by_o the_o testimony_n of_o s._n paul_n to_o the_o ephesian_n and_o to_o the_o collof_n where_o he_o exhort_v they_o to_o speak_v unto_o themselves_o in_o psalm_n &_o hymn_n and_o spiritual_a song_n it_o be_v a_o foul_a audacity_n contrary_a to_o the_o manifest_a word_n of_o truth_n to_o affirm_v that_o the_o psalm_n be_v not_o sunge_v to_o god_n see_v that_o not_o only_o the_o speech_n be_v direct_v in_o a_o multitude_n of_o place_n unto_o he_o but_o also_o the_o holyghost_n do_v call_v upon_o man_n in_o this_o wise_a sing_v unto_o god_n sing_v a_o new_a song_n unto_o he_o sing_v praise_n unto_o the_o lord_n but_o beside_o this_o you_o go_v further_o for_o in_o both_o place_n by_o you_o cite_v you_o leave_v out_o the_o latter_a part_n of_o the_o sentence_n which_o be_v that_o they_o shall_v sing_v unto_o the_o lord_n with_o grace_n in_o their_o heart_n let_v the_o reader_n peruse_v the_o place_n and_o judge_v what_o kind_n of_o trick_n this_o be_v it_o be_v most_o clear_a that_o they_o do_v read_v the_o psalm_n upon_o the_o book_n when_o they_o do_v sing_v they_o it_o be_v also_o out_o of_o controversy_n that_o they_o do_v sing_v they_o to_o the_o lord_n unless_o we_o will_v deny_v the_o flat_a word_n of_o the_o holyghost_n and_o also_o affirm_v that_o albeit_o the_o speech_n be_v direct_v to_o god_n yet_o they_o do_v not_o in_o sing_v speak_v unto_o he_o it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o that_o many_o of_o the_o psalm_n be_v full_a of_o petition_n also_o praise_n be_v a_o part_n of_o prayer_n and_o a_o spiritual_a sacrifice_n this_o be_v offer_v up_o to_o god_n 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the_o worship_n of_o god_n receive_v any_o tradition_n which_o do_v bring_v our_o liberty_n into_o bondage_n read_v prayer_n upon_o commandment_n in_o the_o assembly_n be_v a_o tradition_n that_o do_v bring_v our_o liberty_n into_o bondage_n therefore_o read_v prayer_n etc._n etc._n to_o the_o assumption_n of_o this_o argument_n i_o answer_v at_o the_o first_o which_o i_o particular_o rehearse_v how_o can_v you_o then_o with_o any_o show_n of_o truth_n say_v my_o word_n import_v a_o denial_n of_o the_o antecedent_n assumption_n and_o all_o my_o word_n be_v these_o the_o three_o argument_n say_v that_o the_o form_n of_o prayer_n be_v a_o bondage_n and_o break_v our_o liberty_n with_o etc._n etc._n the_o prove_v which_o i_o bring_v do_v only_o overthrow_v the_o assumption_n for_o i_o do_v and_o do_v acknowledge_v the_o proposition_n which_o you_o say_v my_o word_n import_v a_o denial_n of_o i_o will_v wish_v you_o to_o use_v more_o simplicity_n i_o say_v it_o be_v ungodlye_a and_o near_a unto_o blasphemy_n to_o affirm_v that_o prescript_n form_n of_o prayer_n be_v a_o tradition_n bring_v our_o liberty_n into_o bondage_n and_o a_o change_v the_o work_n of_o the_o spirit_n into_o a_o idol_n my_o reason_n be_v and_o be_v that_o the_o lord_n by_o moses_n prescribe_v a_o form_n of_o blessing_n which_o the_o priest_n shall_v use_v nomb._n 6._o the_o prophet_n as_o in_o the_o psalm_n prescribe_v many_o form_n of_o praise_n and_o prayer_n to_o be_v use_v of_o the_o church_n our_o saviour_n jesus_n christ_n prescribe_v a_o form_n and_o say_v when_o you_o pray_v say_v our_o father_n etc._n etc._n if_o the_o very_a read_n or_o use_v the_o prescript_n form_n command_v be_v a_o bondage_n break_v christian_a liberty_n or_o a_o change_v the_o work_n of_o the_o spirit_n into_o a_o idol_n than_o the_o lord_n god_n moses_n the_o prophet_n and_o our_o saviour_n christ_n be_v charge_v with_o a_o great_a fault_n your_o reply_n be_v with_o some_o roughness_n of_o speech_n which_o i_o omit_v because_o it_o be_v but_o your_o fashion_n but_o for_o proof_n that_o read_v prayer_n be_v man_n invention_n and_o thrust_v upon_o the_o church_n by_o constraint_n you_o say_v england_n know_v by_o woeful_a experience_n there_o have_v be_v i_o grant_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n variance_n about_o some_o matter_n to_o be_v read_v which_o be_v command_v in_o the_o liturgy_n but_o not_o about_o the_o command_v a_o prescript_n form_n of_o prayer_n to_o be_v use_v for_o therein_o our_o church_n do_v agree_v with_o all_o godly_a church_n that_o a_o prescript_n form_n of_o public_a prayer_n be_v convenient_a yea_o the_o reform_a church_n have_v and_o do_v practice_v the_o same_o here_o therefore_o i_o will_v wish_v the_o reader_n to_o observe_v that_o you_o brownist_n do_v not_o only_o condemn_v the_o church_n of_o england_n but_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n whatsoever_o and_o can_v be_v none_o other_o but_o mere_a donatist_n for_o here_o in_o this_o your_o three_o argument_n you_o 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brownist_n of_o necessity_n if_o your_o speech_n be_v weigh_v see_v all_o church_n have_v and_o do_v thing_n which_o you_o affirm_v to_o be_v most_o detestable_a idolatry_n but_o let_v the_o matter_n come_v into_o question_n to_o be_v debate_v among_o the_o church_n and_o you_o will_v be_v find_v anabaptist_n for_o imagine_v such_o a_o christian_a liberty_n and_o freedom_n in_o the_o church_n that_o nothing_o be_v to_o be_v receyve_v which_o be_v impose_v by_o commandment_n then_o you_o say_v that_o it_o break_v our_o liberty_n s._n paul_n prove_v most_o plain_o to_o the_o galathian_o and_o colossian_n i_o pray_v you_o then_o that_o we_o may_v see_v such_o plain_a proof_n which_o as_o yet_o none_o but_o yourselves_o can_v espy_v note_v the_o sentence_n that_o will_v prove_v the_o matter_n you_o take_v it_o there_o be_v no_o warrant_n to_o set_v forth_o any_o prescript_n form_n of_o prayer_n because_o christ_n have_v prescribe_v a_o form_n you_o think_v i_o may_v more_o safe_o reason_n 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authority_n to_o bring_v in_o any_o one_o thing_n in_o prayer_n which_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o those_o prayer_n of_o god_n word_n but_o when_o the_o prayer_n be_v compose_v and_o frame_v of_o nothing_o but_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o after_o the_o rule_n of_o true_a prayer_n nothing_o be_v bring_v in_o which_o god_n have_v not_o command_v lay_v aside_o therefore_o all_o your_o shift_n touch_v apocrypha_fw-la mens_fw-la writing_n and_o inequality_n with_o canonical_a scripture_n and_o bring_v your_o argument_n against_o the_o prescript_n form_n and_o the_o read_n to_o prove_v that_o they_o make_v a_o prayer_n holy_a in_o itself_o to_o become_v abominable_a and_o contrary_a unto_o spiritual_a prayer_n that_o you_o say_v our_o saviour_n never_o use_v the_o word_n of_o the_o lord_n prayer_n when_o he_o pray_v neither_o command_v his_o disciple_n to_o say_v over_o these_o word_n neither_o do_v we_o read_v that_o the_o apostle_n do_v ever_o use_v or_o enforce_v other_o to_o use_v certain_a word_n etc._n etc._n you_o speak_v untrue_o for_o the_o disciple_n desire_v he_o to_o teach_v they_o to_o pray_v as_o john_n teach_v his_o disciple_n to_o pray_v and_o he_o command_v when_o you_o pray_v say_v thus_o our_o father_n which_o be_v in_o heaven_n hallow_a be_v thy_o name_n etc._n etc._n luke_n 11._o and_o s._n matthew_n a_o apostle_n with_o s._n luke_n the_o evangelist_n have_v deliver_v the_o same_o to_o the_o whole_a church_n if_o we_o read_v not_o any_o where_n that_o they_o do_v use_v the_o lord_n prayer_n or_o command_v other_o to_o use_v it_o will_v you_o reason_v thus_o we_o do_v not_o read_v that_o the_o apostle_n or_o the_o church_n in_o their_o time_n do_v baptize_v infant_n therefore_o infant_n be_v not_o baptize_v or_o will_v you_o reason_v thus_o we_o never_o read_v that_o the_o apostle_n do_v pray_v either_o before_o or_o after_o they_o preach_v therefore_o they_o do_v not_o your_o argument_n be_v the_o very_a same_o with_o these_o two_o former_a yet_o from_o hence_o you_o will_v needs_o conclude_v y_z t_z we_o will_v impose_v upon_o whole_a church_n certain_a word_n even_o our_o own_o word_n stint_v the_o spirit_n of_o god_n i_o have_v already_o show_v that_o the_o church_n have_v not_o authority_n to_o bring_v any_o form_n of_o prayer_n into_o the_o assembly_n but_o such_o as_o be_v agreeable_a to_o the_o rule_v appoint_v for_o prayer_n by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o where_o you_o call_v it_o a_o stint_n of_o the_o spirit_n i_o answer_v that_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n be_v not_o stint_v but_o some_o man_n be_v further_v by_o prescript_n form_n their_o infirmity_n require_v such_o a_o eye_n as_o i_o have_v show_v before_o argum._n 4._o because_o true_a prayer_n must_v be_v of_o faith_n utter_v with_o heart_n and_o lively_a voice_n it_o be_v presumptuous_a ignorance_n to_o bring_v a_o book_n to_o speak_v for_o we_o etc._n etc._n argum._n 5._o to_o worship_v the_o true_a god_n after_o a_o other_o manner_n than_o 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presumptuous_a ignorance_n to_o use_v the_o help_n of_o a_o book_n that_o those_o which_o read_v upon_o a_o book_n come_v not_o with_o faith_n and_o contrite_a heart_n etc._n etc._n but_o stand_v read_v a_o dead_a letter_n which_o quench_v the_o spirit_n and_o that_o a_o book_n be_v no_o help_n for_o continuance_n in_o prayer_n what_o scripture_n i_o say_v bring_v you_o to_o prove_v any_o of_o these_o be_v not_o my_o bare_a denial_n as_o good_a as_o your_o bare_a affirmation_n and_o in_o this_o far_o better_a that_o i_o have_v before_o prove_v the_o use_n of_o read_v by_o y_z e_z word_n of_o god_n david_n say_v you_o will_v praise_v the_o lord_n with_o hart_n and_o doyce_n therefore_o not_o upon_o a_o book_n s._n paul_n will_v pray_v with_o the_o spirit_n and_o with_o understanding_n therefore_o not_o upon_o a_o book_n david_n and_o paul_n have_v not_o so_o much_o need_n of_o the_o book_n as_o other_o man_n but_o when_o they_o will_v other_o to_o sing_v praise_n to_o god_n as_o in_o 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