which be Canonicall and which be Apocrypha Protestant 8 How do you know which is the Church And by what meanes may it be knowen that the Church hath authoritie to determine which be Scriptures and which of them be Canonicall and which be Apocrypha Papist There be many notes and markes reckoned vp by the learned of our side by which the Church may be knowen But we insist chiefly vpon these Antiquitie Vnitie Vniuersality Succession and the power of Miracles And for the authority of the Church it is prooued by the Scriptures Protestant 9 This answere is common to all Heretikes for they alleage somtimes the a Author ope Imper. in Mat. Ho. 48. Church sometime b Iren. adu Haere lib. 3. cap. 2. Traditions sometime c Aug. coÌ„tr Maxim Ariâ— episc li. 1. Councels sometime d De Bapt. c. 6. li. 3. Fathers sometime e In Ioh. ca 2. tract 13 Miracles sometime f De vnit eccle c. 16. Visions sometime g Epist 65. ad gener Succession of Bishops yea h Act. 19.27 Demetrius pretended Vniuersalitie And the i Act. 17 18 19. Philosophers Epicures and Stoickes Antiquity And k Vinc. Lir. ca. 6 ca. 4. Vincentius Lirinensis disproueth Vniuersalitie by the example of the Arrians and Antiquity by the example of the Donatists And for their l In Chron. Suput Rom. prat Sigon de Regn. Ital li. â— Vnitie let that appeare in the seuerall oppositions of their Popes one condemning the decrées of another and decréeing one contrary to another And therefore this is no sufficieÌ„t reason for a man to ground his faith and Religion if we beléeue the m StapletoÌ„ Fortresse Hart. ag Ra. pag. 118. Papists in the like cause for it is a common obiection by them that because Heretikes alleage the Scripture therefore they are no suffieient rule Moreouer this answere passeth the limits of the proposition for it presupposeth the authoritie of the Church to be prooued by the Scriptures and the Scriptures to be prooued by the authority of the Church which is Ignotum per ignotius Idem per idem A proofe of a thing vnknowen by a thing lesse knowen and so no proofe at all Therefore to procéede to the next part of the diuision what doe you vnderstand by Traditions Papist I vnderstand Apostilicall doctrine commonly called vnwritten verities and as D.B. P. in his booke against M. Perkins diuides them Some are Diuine some Apostolicall and some Ecclesiasticall all which according to the Councel of Trent are to be receiued with equall reuerence Conc. Trid. Sess 4. and religious affection as we do the Scriptures Protestant 10 How doe you proue Traditions or vnwritten verities to bee Apostolicall doctrine and that they be Diuine Apostolicall and Ecclesiasticall and that they are to bee receiued with equall reuerence and religious affection as we doe the Scriptures Papist 2. Thess 2 15. I proue it by the Scriptures interpreted by the Church Saint Paul saith Hold the Trations which yee haue learned whether it bee by word Conc. Trid. â—ess 4. or by Epistle which by the Churches exposition proueth vnwritten verities to be receiued with equall authoritie to the Scriptures and to explane the same D.B.P. aforesayd affirmeth that Diuine Traditions come from our Sauiour Christ Apostolicall Traditions from the Apostles And the Decrees of the Church hee tearmeth Ecclesiasticall Traditions which are likewise of equall authoritie with the Scriptures Protestant 11 This is a common fault with you to vse this point of Sophistrie called by the Logicians Petitio principij for you wil stil take it for graunted that you are the Church though you neuer prooue it And this is a necessary consequence That if the trueth be doubted of the church must néedes bee much more doubted of because the Church is the number of men professing the trueth And how can the professors of the trueth be seuered from others so long as the trueth by which they should bee knowen is in question Therefore the supposing your selues to be the church when your faith Religion should be tried is fond vain But if S. Paul in that place by Deliuered Tradition meane nothing but the doctrine deliuered to them by word of mouth yet comprised in Scripture too then must you graunt that you are deceiued to thinke that vnwritten Traditions are approued by S. Pauls Traditions Now what the things were which S. Paul deliuered by word to the Thessalonians is shewed in the 17 of the Acts saying Now as they passed thorow Amphipolis and Apolonia they came to Thessalonica where was a Synagogue of the Iewes and Paul as his maner was entred in vnto them and thrée Sabbath dayes hee discoursed vnto them out of the Scriptures opening and alleaging That Christ must haue suffered and risen againe c. In which wordes it is opened both what Paul deliuered to the Thessalonians by word and from whence From whence Out of the Scriptures What That it behooued Christ to suffer and rise againe Besides Saint Paul witnesseth both to small and great that hee said no other thing than that which the Prophets and Moyses did say should come Act. 26 22 The Traditions therefore that Paul doth exhort the Thessalonians to hold is the Tradition of the Gospel as Saint Ambrose writing vpon the same place calleth it very well which the reason also doth prooue that Saint Ambrose noteth that Paul doth there gather saying God hath raised you to saluation by our Gospel therefore stand ye fast and holde the Traditions which ye haue learned whether it be by word or by Epistle Now I hope there is none so impudent to denie that the Gospel is written But here another difficultie incounters vs If it were granted by the Churches interpretation that there were doctrines or Traditions Diuine Apostolicall or Ecclesiasticall deliuered by word of mouth vpon what sure grounds might wee be assured which be the Traditions that were so deliuered by Christ his Apostles or the Church Papist The ancient Fathers chiefe Papists doe plainely teach that many points of doctrine wherein you varie from vs as halowing the Font the blessing of the oyle the anointing the Baptized Exorcismes Fastes Festiuities prayer for the dead prayer to Saints worshipping of Images the oblation of the Sacrifice their Annealing their Primacie of Rome their fiue pretended Sacraments the merit of workes their satisfactions the numbring their sinnes to the Priest their Real presence their halfe CommunioÌ„ c. See the preface for Priests and See Master Middletons booke called Papisto-Mastix Sect. 5. almost all these things which you defend against vs are proued by the Fathers to be deliuered by Tradition Protestant 12 This sheweth euidently that you are guilty of the same fault that the Pharises were Mark 7.9 by Christs owne reproofe saying You cast aside the commaundements of God to maintaine your owne Traditions Mat 15.9 teaching for doctrine
the saluation of the faithfull And in his second booke against Cresconius the Grāmarian he saith That there is an Ecclesiasticall Canon ordained whereunto belong the bookes of the Prophets and Apostles By which bookes we iudge all other writings both of the faithful of the Infidels Hier. sup Agge cap. 1. Hierom sayth Those things which of their owne heads they deuise as though they came by Apostolike Tradition without the authority and testimony of the holy Scriptures the sword of Gods word striketh Infinite be the Authorities of the Fathers which might be brought to this purpose but I will conclude the point with Vincentius Lirinensis whome D.B.P. in his booke against M. Perkins Vincent aduer Haeres beleeueth not to haue any such wordes who saith The Canon of the Scripture is perfect and sufficient and more then sufficient to al things And again Not that saith he the Canon alone is not sufficient for all things These Fathers I hope knew the Scriptures aswell as D.B.P. or any other Papist and yet notwithstanding al his their obiections the Protestāts Achilles as he tearmeth it stands vnimpeacht by any thing that this or any other cauiller hath said And yet notwithstanding these euident places brought by the general consent of all the Fathers against the fundamētal Ground of Popery Your Rhemists wil tel you Rhem. Test 2. Thes 2. sect 18.19 if you wil beleeue them that they haue to the contrary plaine Scriptures all the fathers most euident reasons that wee must either beleeue Traditions or nothing at all And that S. Augustine often writeth That many of the articles of our Religion and points of highest importance are not so much to be prooued by Scriptures as by Tradition But if we aske them where S. Austine wrote this often and that of many articles of Religion and poynts of highest importance it must be returned with Non est inuentus Not to be found in S. Austin But they perceiuing the whole waight of their cause to lie in this Rhem. Test fol. 559. haue marshalled nine Fathers in a ranke to proue that we must either beleeue Traditions or nothing And yet the very same Fathers haue shewed That no matter of faith or of any moment to saluation must bee receiued or beleeued without the Scriptures Cypr. ad Pomp. cont epist Stepha Basil contr Eunomium lib. 3. and the Fathers often times by Traditions vnderstand matters contained proued out of the scriptures that in regard the same was deliuered also by word And many times by Traditiōs they vnderstād ceremonies and customs Now chuse whether you will grant a flat contradiction in the Fathers or reconcile them thus and conclude with vs Ergo the Traditions they meane be no parts or points of the Christian faith For we haue their plain confession That all things necessary to saluation are comprised in the scriptures you produce them to witnes That your Traditions be not comprised in the scriptures Ergo by your owne deponents wee conclude That your Traditions be neither necessary to saluation nor points of the Catholike faith Looke wel to this Issue They must either dissent frō you or from themselues Now if you will compare the late doctrine of the Romish Church with these Fathers it shal be euident That they haue not only dissented frō them but also vttered open blasphemy against the sacred Scriptures First Cardinal Cusanus intituleth his booke De authoritate ecclesiae Cōcilij supra contra scripturam Of the the authority of the Church Coūcel aboue against the scriptures Syluester Prierias master of the Popes palace Contr. Luther cōclusi de pot Papae saith That indulgences are warranted vnto vs not by the authority of the scripture but by the authority of the Church and Pope of Rome which is greater Boniface the Archbishop of Mentz saith That all men so reuerence the Apostolike See of Rome that they rather desire the ancient institution of Christian Religiō from the Pope than from the holy scripture This saying the Pope hath so approued that he hath caused it to be inserted into the Cannon lawe Dist 40. c. Si Papa Another saith whosoeuer resteth not on the doctrine of the Roman Church and B. of Rome Syluest Prier contr Luther as the infallible rule of God à qua sacra scriptura roburtrahit auctoritatem from which the sacred scripture draweth strength and authority he is an heretike Eckius saith De Ecclesia Scriptura nisi ecclesiae auctoritate non est authētica The scripture is not authētical but by the authority of the church Cardinal Hosius saith De expresso verbo Dei If any man haue the interpretation of the Church of Rome concerning any place of scripture although he neither knowe nor vnderstand whether and how it agreeth with the words of the scripture notwithstanding he hath ipsissimū verbū Dei the very word of God Cardinal Cusanus saith Nicol. Cusan ad Bohem epi. 7. It is no maruel though the practise of the Church expound the scriptures at one time one way and at an other time another way for the vnderstanding or sense of the scripture runneth with the practise And that sense agreeing with the practise is the quickening spirit Henric. doctor Magister sacripalatij Romae ad Legatos Bohemicos sub Felice Papa 1447. Ad Bohem. ep 2. and therefore the scriptures follow the Church but contrariwise the Church followeth not the scriptures Another saith The Pope may change the holy Gospel and may giue to the Gospel according to place and time another sense To conclude therfore with Cardinal Cusanus This is the iudgement saith he of all them that thinke rightly that foūd the authority vnderstanding of the Scriptures in the allowance of the Church and not contrariwise lay the foundation of the Church in the authority of the scriptures I will not mention others that haue blasphemously said Vid. Chemnit exa par 1. pag. 47. That the scriptures without the authority of the Church are no better than Aesops Fables Thus you see how the Grounds of our Religiō are iustified by the Fathers against these blasphemies of the Romish Church And for that I knowe it commonly obiected that we refuse in disputation conference to handle the groūds of Religion I haue thought good in this smal Tract to examin though briefly the Grounds of your Romish Religion dialogue-wise to the end the truth may be the more liuely discerned by the obiections and answers Wherein if I haue not truely laid downe the Groūds of your Religion for the substance therof Or that they haue either bin mistaken by me or that vsing that breuity I haue done they might be more strongly or effectually vrged on your side or that the reasons vrged on our behalfe be either falsly alleaged or not truly handled I shall take it as a speciall grace done vnto me an argumēt of
obiections of the errors of Popes and Councels refuted So can I whensoeuer you shall instance any such particular refutation which may ease you of some paines if it be so sufficiently performed referre you to some of the authors of our side where the same reasons haue been with no lesse sufficiencie handled and replied to assuring my selfe That neither any of you haue or can make any obiections against the doctrine we professe that hath not beene already obiected and likewise by vs answered And if any will shew me the contrary I will be beholding to him neither will I shut mine eyes against the trueth If this which I haue sayd may any whit preuaile with you to make shew of that great learning whereof in your Letter you haue boasted by your liberall vndertaking to proue so many particulars which hitherto as great Clerkes as your selfe haue failed in I shall be ready and willing to performe whatsoeuer I haue herein promised Otherwise I pray you returne the booke as you receiued it and you shall see that some such course shal be taken as shal make you blush to haue censured so rashly Your friend in Christianity and Charitie T. V. A briefe view of the weaknesse of the Grounds of Popish Religion as is euident by these seuerall Obiections and Answeres following Protestant 1WHereupon doe you ground your Religion Papist Vpon the word of God interpreted by the Church which cannot erre Protestant 2 What do you vnderstand by the Word of God Papist The Scriptures and Traditions Protestant 3 What doe you vnderstand by the Church Papist Stapl. princi doct l. 7 ca. 10. l. 11 ca. 5 Hervaeus de potest pap R. Cupers Petrus de Palude de potest papae Aâ— 4. The Church is sometimes taken for the auncient Fathers sometimes for generall Councels Sometimes we preferre the head of the Church the Pope before both Protestant 4 Well that we may procéede orderly in the handling of these particulars Doe you receiue all the bookes of the Old and Newe Testaments with equall authoritie Papist No but following the Tradition of the Church we distinguish betweene the Canonicall and the Apocrypha Protestant 5 Which are the Bookes which you call Apocrypha Papist Wee hold as Apocrypha The prayer of Manasses the third and fourth booke of Esdras Also others that are not vsuall in your English Bibles as an Appendix to the booke of Iob The 151. Psalme A preface to the Lamentations of Ieremie The third and fourth booke of Maccabees Protestant 6 Well we agrée with you in the reiection of these Bookes And we likewise consent with you That all the bookes of the New Testament as they stand are to be receiued of all for Canonicall Scripture What are then the Bookes that are in question betwéene vs Papist There be 7. Chapters of Hester certaine Stories annexed to Daniel as Of Bel and the DragoÌ„ Of Susanna Of the three childreÌ„ Also the Epistle of Baruch ioyned to Ieremie Then the books of Tobie Iudeth The Wisedom of Salomon Ecclesiasticus Two bookes of the Maccabees These we repute as Canonical both by the testimony of the Fathers and by the authoritie of the Church Protestant 7 Well Since I shall haue cause hereafter to speake of the Church I wil but briefly giue a touch to the reason of the refusall of these Bookes All Canonicall Scriptures in the old Testament were written by the Prophets We haue a sure word of the Prophets 2. Pet. 1.19 saith Saint Peter And Saint Paul calleth them The Scriptures of the Prophets Rom. 16 2â— But none of those Bookes afore named of Tobias of Iudeth and the rest were written by the Prophets Therefore none of those Bookes are Canonical All the Bookes of the olde Testament that were Canonicall were acknowledged of the Iewes and Hebrewes and written in Hebrew But the Iewes receiued none of these Books into the Canon of the Scriptures though to them were committed the Oracles of God as Saint Paul sayth neither were they in the Hebrew tongue Ergo they are not Canonicall But to the end you may sée how well the Church of which you boast agrées with the testimonies of the Fathers both ancient moderne Hier prol galeat Eâ—i ad Pauli in praefat â—i Reg in praefat in â—ro Salom. I wil giue you this taste briefly S. Hierom saith The Church readeth those bookes but receiueth them not amongst the Canonicall Scriptures The summe of all which is confirmed by these testimonies following whose particular spéeches to this purpose for breuitie sake I omit referring you to the places themselues as they are here following set down As Rufinus in his exposition vpon the Créede Cyril of Hierusalem in the 4. of his Catechisme Athanasius in Synop. Sacr. Scriptur Nazianzen in Carminis Epiphan li. de Mensur ponder Cyprian vpon the Créed Damasâ—en ca. 49. Hugo de Sanct. Victor de Sacram. in prol li. 1. ca. 7. Radulphus in Leuit. li. 14. c. 1. Lyra in prol in li. Apocry Hugo Cardina in prol Iosu All these contradict the opinion of the Papists in this controuersie yea Arias Montanus a chiefe Papist in his Hebrew Bible writeth in the forefront principal leafe of the booke There are added saith he in this Edition the bookes written in Gréek which the Catholike Church following the Canon of the Hebrews reckoneth amongst the Apocrypha The Councel of Laodicea Can. 59. Constantinop in Trul lo Can. 2. allured by a general Councel of Constantinople in Trullo did set downe the same Canon of the scriptures which both the old Church had our church doth hold commandeth Ne aliqui praeterea legantur in auctoritateÌ„ recipiaÌ„tur That none besides be read receiued into authority I omit many seueral contradictions in al or most of the books which we reiect they allow wherby they may be conuinced not to be written by the spirit of God which is alwaies one the same Sée the 4. Esdras 10.20 2. Maccab. 2.4 1. Mac. 1.6 8. touching Antiochus yea we wil confesse with Bellarmin Bellar. de ver Dei li. 1. cap. â— That the scriptures may be proued to be the Word of God by the constant perpetual truth of the Prophecies By the wonderful harmony consent of the holy writers of the Scriptures By the Spirit of God which is a principall witnes vnto vs By the scripture it selfe 2. Tim. 3. Lastly by the many great miracles wrought by the Prophets Apostles which do testifie for the truth thereof To the which touchstone if the Scriptures whith wee reiect were brought to the triall they would easily bee conuinced to bee but drosse and vnworthy to stand in the rankes of those that are Canonicall But how doe you knowe which are the Scriptures and in them which be Canonicall which be Apocrypha Papist I knowe by the testimonie of the Church which be the Scriptures and in them
in â—nesis q. 162. Iacob by faith worshipped God vpon the end of his staffe But they traÌ„slate Iacob adored the top of his Rod to countenance their Idolatrie â—n confes Aug. i. 2. c. 8. Tit. 5. Torrensis the Iesuite in the diuision of the coÌ„mandements saith that 3 of them concerne our duty towards God and 7 towards men This doctrine is imbraced by the Papists vpon Austin and Clements authority contrary to al these Fathers folowing whose iudgements they may truely be said to reiect in preferring two before so many As first by the Hebrewes as Li. de decal 〈◊〉 duob opusc â—le legib speciâ— lib. Philo Antiquit. â—ude li. 3. ca. 4. Iosephus In Exod. 20. Aben Ezra next by the Grecians In versib de â—ecalog Gregory Nazianzen In Exod. â—o 8. Origen In Synop. â—et Scriptur Athanasius and In Mat. oper â—mperf Ho. 49. Chrysostome Lastly by the Latines In Epist ad â—ph cap. 6. S. Ambrose In â—pist ad â—phes ca. 6. S. Hierome And one yet ancienter than they both Aug. q. vet Nou. Test â—p 7. The Author of the questions of the Old and New Testament who all affirme that foure Commandements concerne our duety towards God and sixe towards men Epiphanius is reiected by D. Hardin Iewel pagâ— 548. for breaking of Images Cyprian is condemned by Dureus because he teacheth that onely Christ is to be heard Their reiection of the Fathers is so commonly knowen to all that reade Controuersies See their Iâ—dex expurgatorius as is euident by the infinite testimonies alleaged by vs out of the Fathers against the Papists that I shall not néede to insist of more particularities in which few may yet be obserued that they reiect the greater number which they tearme the Churches exposition when they make against them Stapleton and Hart. The fourth Exception is that there are many counterfeits bearing the name of Fathers which are likewise often alleaged by the Papists to abuse vs with their names For proofe wherof there be nine volumes of S. Hieroms workes whereof 3 are none of his and yet vitae Patrum a Legend how wrongfully fathered on him CoÌ„ment in epi 2. ad Tâ— mo ca. 4. lâ— cor Theolâ— li. 11. ca. 6. your Espencaeus and Canus both shew As also a barbarous and sottish fable of the natiuity of S. Mary as Canus calleth it Likewise of ten volumes of S. Austins there is not aboue one or two that hath not more or fewer of such Pamphlets patched to it both by the censure of Erasmus Censura theologoruÌ„ Louanienâ—um in AppeÌ„di c Tomâ— secundi ceteroâ—um August and the Diuines of Louain who shew that sundry things beare Saint Austines name whereof some are vnlearned some lewd and hereticall Sixtus â—eneâ—s de â—â—lcâ— librotum inscrip Stapl prinâ— doctr li. â— cap. 14. Sixtus Senensis whom D. Stapleton doeth commend hath proued that books are fathered falsely not onely vpon Augustine and Hierome but also vpon Ambrose Cyprian Athanasius Eusebius Emisenus Iunilius Cyril Eucherius Arnobius and Thomas of Aquine And with this discourse hee closeth vp the former volume of his holy Librarie In which he hath shewed Bibliotheca Sanctâ— lib. 2. 4. that Clemens Abdius Origen Chrysostome Hipolitus and many mo haue had their names defaced with the same iniurie I will omit diuers others for breuity and although this may séeme no iust Exception against the Fathers yet it ought to make vs cautious how we trust them to be the true Fathers and not counterfeits the rather for that the Papists haue often alleaged such counterfeit Fathers to credit their doctrine with For proofe whereof Torrensis the Iesuite citeth such bookes for S. Augustines as are knowen and granted to bee none of his â—n confess â—ng li. â— ca. â— Tit. 2 c. assiâ— as namely The Sermon of Saint Peters chaire and other pretie Pamphlets of the same litter And although in the preface of his confessions to the Reader he makes an exception yet our of that exception he saith that although they doe not auaile much to conuince the opinion of Sectaries Neuerthelesse there will be godly men and learned who will permit and iudge them to be Saint Augustines owne and will both take delight and profit by trading them And yet amongst theâ—e bookes there is one that teacheth contrary to Saint Augustine as namely The booke of visiting the sicke wherein the Bastard Austin alloweth the worship of images for good De visitat Infirmor li 2. ca. 1. De moribuâ— Ecclesiae ca. 3â— which â—he true Austin doth note as an abuse and saith the Church misliketh it And yet this booke alleaged by the Iesuite for worshipping of iâ—ages is set as a flower in his Austins conâ—â—tions though it be iudged a bastard Austin by the Diuines of Louain Censura Louaniensium Non est August princ doctr li. â— cap. 15. Arnob. com in psal â—â— Hier. de Scriptoriâ— eccle Biblio sanct li. 4. Histor Tâ—ip li. 5. c. 5. Coment in â—sal 105. D. Stapleton alleageth Arnobius vpon the Psalmes to prooue that who goeth out of Peters church shall perish and that this is a counterfeit Father Saint Hierome and Sixtus Senensis dot shew for that the most ancient Arnobius was elder than that he might heare of the heresie of Photinus whereas this Arnobius that writeth on the Psalmes doeth mention Photinus and wrote by name against his Heresie S. Basil is often alleaged by the Papists in many of their bookes Basil de Spir. sanct ca. 27. for Traditions not written These words are vrged as his Of the doctrines which are taught in the Church wee haue some laid down in writing some againe we haue receiued by Tradition from the Apostles in a mystery that is in secret whereof either haue like force to godlines neither doth any man contradict them that is but meanly acquainted with the lawes of the Church for if we go about to reiect those customs which are not written as of no moment before we beware we shal condemne those things which are in the Gospel necessary to saluatioÌ„ yea rather we shal bring the preaching of faith to a naked name And not long after in the same booke If nothing else hath béen receiued without scriptures Ibid. ca. 29. neither let this be receiued But if wee haue receiued many secrets without writing let vs also receiue this among those many I thinke it Apostolike to cleaue to TraditioÌ„s not written Now this booke is prooued a counterfeit by the reasons following First though it hath Saint Basils name to it Epist Eras dedicat ad Episc Culmens praefiâ—â— ca. 17. yet the later part thereof whence those patches are taken haue neither S. Basils stile learning spirit nor age which Erasmus confessed when he translated the booke Besides this place of Basils directly contradicts the two places afore mentioned of of S. Basil
And Saint Iohn witnesseth that our Sauiour Christ saith Iohn 6.53 Except yee eate the flesh of the sonne of man and drinke his blood you haue no life in you and many other testimonies which I omit It wil conuince the Councell of Nice of error in decréeing for the worship of Images contrary to the second commandement But what shall I néede to descend to particularities it will conuince your late Councell of Trent and all other Councels in all those points of doctrine wherein you varie from vs if any Papist dare vndertake to bring the controuersies betwéene vs to that triall And surely since they will seeme to bring Scriptures to prooue the authoritie of the church and that the church cannot erre I sée no reason why they should refuse to make them iudge of all differences betwéene vs. But I maruell they vrge these places of Scripture to prooue that the church representatiue cannot erre séeing they are not able to shew that any one ancient Father hath so vnderstood them or that the whole church is represented in a generall Councell Name one Father that is ancient and not counterfeit for your credit sake that hath interpreted these places of Scripture or any other in that case as you doe If you cannot the world may iustly holde you for wranglers and abusers both of Scriptures and Fathers But let vs a little examine the force of those Scriptures which if they were all granted make nothing against vs if they bee rightly vnderstood The first is When two or thrée are gathered together c. This place is as pregnant for two or thrée faithfull men assembled in Christs name as to a Nationall or a Prouinciall Councell Neither doeth it giue any greater priuiledge to a Generall Councell than it doeth vnto them Bellar. li. 1. de Conc. ca. 12. though it bee alleaged by Bellarmine as the ground for the authorising of Councels All which promise notwithstanding your selues grant That both Nationall and Prouinciall Councels may erre The next place is the sixtéenth of Iohn where the holy Ghost is promised to the Apostles to leade them into all trueth which spirit of trueth is promised to the church and to euery particular member thereof for whome our Sauiour Christ prayeth saying Sanctifie them in thy trueth thy worde is trueth Ioh. 17.17.19 20. And againe I pray not for these alone but for them also that shall beleeue in mee through their worde But what maketh this for generall Councels more then the whole church or euery faithfull member thereof For although this prooueth that the holy Ghost shall euer remayne with the church and with euery true member of the same yet must wee not hereof conclude though it bee as pregnant for euery faithfull particular man as for the whole That either euery member of Christ or euerie Pastor that is the Apostles successour cannot erre Neither is this to be restrained to generall Councels or to the Pope neither must wee thinke that any visible Church may challenge all priuiledges that the Apostles had as necessary to the conuersion of the world Rhem. Test Iohn 16. But your Rhemists will tell you that to teach all trueth and to preserue in trueth and from error the holy Ghost is promised and performed onely to the Church and the choice gouernour and generall Councels Vpon which the Papists conclude that if the Church cannot erre the gouernours of the church cannot erre Is not this substantiall reasoning The whole church cannot erre Ergo the Pastors and preachers cannot erre Deale plainely and directly Do you hereby conclude that all Pastors cannot erre or that no Pastor can erre For to say that no Pastor can erre were apparant madnesse and to say that all Pastors cannot erre stands you in no stead neither is this a good argument The whole Church cannot erre that is all and euery faithfull cannot erre Ergo all Pastors cannot erre This is no kind of consequent for some of the faithfull may be directed to the trueth and they no Pastors nor preachers and many preachers may be preserued from error and they no Bishops and many Bishops may kept in the faith and they not assembled And a great number of those that be assembled may be righty affected and yet not the most part of them And the greater side may be well disposed and yet not the Bishop of Rome without whose confirmation you hold no Councell lawfull And therefore this argument is very childish The whole Church cannot erre Ergo Generall Councels cannot erre and specially the Pope of whom wee shall speake more particularly hereafter neither hath the holy Ghost filled with the vnmeasurable abundance of grace any but Christ Iohn 3.34 Iohn 1.16 for God giueth not the spirit by measure to him of whose fulnesse wee all receiue And it may well bee gathered from the Scriptures 2. Cor. 10.13 Eph. 4.7 that though the holy Ghost be giuen to the Elect yet hee hath giuen it by measure as I may say with Saint Paul not to this end that they may not erre but that they may not erre to death For what thing soeuer is receiued of another it is receiued according to the capacitie of that which receiueth it The last is the 1. Tim. 3.15 The Church is the pillar and ground of trueth therefore it cannot erre If this argument were granted would it follow hereupon that general Councels could not erre but this is sufficiently refuted before And you knowe that Peter was a pillar of trueth and yet hee erred and was reprooued by Saint Paul Gal. 2. yea your Diuines of Paris Articuli Parisienses but lately resolued that Peter erred in faith when Paul reprooued him And the very drift and scope of the place sheweth That Timothie is not sent by Saint Paul to the church to learne his duety but to the Scripture These things write I vnto thée sayth hee hoping to come shortly but if I tarie long that thou mayest knowe how thou oughtest to behaue thy selfe in the house of God which is the church of the liuing GOD the pillar and ground of trueth This church then which Timothie was conuersant in is the church of Ephesus called by S Paul The pillar and ground of trueth But this church of Ephesus hath condemned the doctrine of the Popes supremacie Conc. Flor. Sess vlt. Chalcocondylas de Reb. Turc lib. 6. to which other churches of the East haue likewise condescended Therefore if that be true still which the Church teacheth because S. Paul calleth it the pillar and ground of trueth then the doctrine of the Popes supremacie is wicked and Papistrie is heresie yea euen this church notwithstanding it was called the pillar and ground of trueth is now left desolate to Mahomets wicked impietie But let vs sée by some few testimonies of the Fathers how they haue expounded this place and whether they haue applied it to generall Councels as the Papists do and not
the ordainings of Formosus ought to be void And this * Pag 42. 7 Concil Rauen An. Do 898. Sigon de Reg. Itaâ— li. 6. Master Hart against Doctor Raynolds confesseth to be an error in faith And Iohn the ninth in the Councel of Rauenna condemned Stephen and his Councell and therein their new ordainings are forbidden and matched with new Baptizings Pope Coelestine the third did set forth a decrée that when of married persons one falleth into heresie the marriage is dissolued and the Catholike partie is free to marrie againe Mat. 19.9 flat against the Scriptures And Alfonsus Alfon. à Castro aduer Haeres li. 1. ca. 4. a famous patron of the Papacie doeth shewe that he defined it For that Pope Coelestine did erre saith Alfonsus about the marriage of the faithfull of whome one falleth into Heresie It is manifest to all men Neither was this errour of Coelestine such as ought to bee imputed to negligence alone That wee may say he erred as a priuate man and not as a Pope who in defining of any serious matter should aske counsel of learned men For this definition of Coelestine was extant in the olde Decretals which I my selfe haue séene and read Super quart decretal c. quanto de â—iuortijs â— IdeÌ„ siquidem de coÌ„â—ers infid c. audabilem Gratia dist 9. c. in â—omi § â—drian in 4 â—ent de conâ—irma ca. vlt. Gerson Almain Paâ—isieÌ„ses Theâ—logi Decret li 4. â—e diuort â—uanto â— Ibid. praedecessor Decretal li. â— de deâ—oÌ„sa duoruÌ„ 〈◊〉 licet praeter And this is confirmed by Cardinal Hostiensis who noteth the very paragraph of the Chapter in the which it was and speaketh of it as a Decretall And that the Pope may erre in iudgement of faith Gratian Adrian Gerson and Almaine the Diuines of Paris affirme Innocentius the third when he decided the cause confessed that one of his predecessors had decréed otherwise which saith the Gloze was Coelestinus whose resolution was in the old Decretals and it was euill that Coelestinus sayd Alexander the third in a matter of great importance sayd Quamuis aliter à quibusdam praedecessoribus nostris sit aliquando iudicatum Though some of our predecessors haue heretofore otherwise giuen iudgement And if you obiect for you will euer find some shift that these were matters of mariage and not of faith as though the seuering of those whome God hath ioyned did not touch the faith â—e conse â—istin 2. Ego Beren Nicolaus the second in a Councell of 114. Bishops appointed Berengarius to confesse That the very body of Christ is in trueth and sensually broken and bruised in pieces with the téeth of the faithfull And this confession the Pope receiued allowed and sent to the Bishops of Italy Germany and France as Catholike which your owne Gloze saith Ibid. c. dentibus is a greater heresie than euer Berengarius held vnlesse you vnderstand this of the outwarde formes of Bread and Wine and not of the body of Christ Honorius the Pope did hold and teach the Monothelites heresie 1. Tim. 3 16 Luk. 22.42 who whereas Christ is made our Sauiour and Redéemer by that he doeth consist of two natures God and man and as of two natures so of two willes agréeable to the natures they say that Christ hath but one will onely and by consequent but one nature The sixt general Councel hath handled the cause of the Monotholite heretikes in 18. actions as they are tearmed In the first action the 8. and the 11. the heretikes alleage in their owne defence that Pope Honorius taught as they do In the 12. 13. his writings are examined his heresie discouered himselfe condemned and cursed In the 16. 17 18. Honor. haâ—retico Anthema the sentence which was giuen against him and the curse are repeated often againe and againe with acclamation of the Councel yea the principal point of his Decrées Vid Raynâ— ver Hart â— diu 2. pag 293. set forth to teach the Church was the Monothelites heresie this is confirmed by chiefe Papists Abbas Vrsâ—erg Ann. 1080. â—aâ—ciculus â—er sciendar â—n vita â—est Hildeâ—randi Pope Gregory the 7. was condemned by the Bishops of France and Germany as the ancient disciple of the Heretike Berengarius and swaruing from the true faith And in speciall words This is Hildebrands Decree in which hee erred from the Catholike doctrine and faith Now let the indifferent Reader iudge betwéene you and vs whether the Pope be a competent iudge But how may it appeare that to him is committed so great a charge and that his sentence is so absolute that all authorities of Scripture Fathers and Councels must submit themselues to his Censure Papist The absolute authority of his Holinesse is prooued by many places of Scripture as Thou art Peter Mat. 16.18 and vpon this Rocke will I build my Church and the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it â—uk 22.32 and I haue prayed for thee Peter that thy faith faile not and Thou being conuerted strengthen thy brethren and Feede my sheepe â—oh 21.17 Feede my lambes And many other places of Scriptures Fathers and Councels doe conferre this speciall priuiledge vpon Peter and Peters Successours By which means all Controuersies whatsoeuer may be determined Protestant This is strange Diuinitie and stranger Logicke Christ sayd Thou art Peter vpon this Rocke will I build my Church Ergo the Church is builded onely vpon Peter and the Pope The gates of hell shall neuer preuaile against the Church Ergo Peter and the Pope are the Church against which the gates of hell shall not preuaile I haue prayed for thée Peter that thy faith faile not Ergo whatsoeuer is determined by the Pope is not subiect to error And Christ sayd to Peter Feede my shéepe Ergo hée made him supreame head of the Apostles Or thus Christ did charge Peter to féede his shéepe But the Apostles were shéepe of Christ Ergo hee had the charge of féeding them also and so had absolute authority Nowe to make you sée the folly of this manner of reasoning obserue this argument and you shall by that meanes easily discerne the weakenesse of your owne reason Christ did charge his Apostles to preach the Gospel to euery creature But Peter was a creature Ergo they had charge of preaching to him also And this must néedes ouersway your reason if a man would play with words For Christ said not to Peter féede al my sheep but he said to the Apostles preach to euery creature And if these consequents bée good then is it an easie and a safe way to decide all differences and wee might well haue spared all these paines for it will necessarily follow that if the Pope cannot erre in any point of doctrine or discipline of the Church then the Scriptures Fathers Councels are superfluous Act. 15. Neither is that Gloze to any purpose that the Rhemists
than Clergie men to be discerners of trueth And it is euident by the Scriptures that there is a limitation howe farre the Bishops and Cleargie are to be obeyed and what they are to teach For S. Paul saith Be yee followers of me as I am of Christ 1 Cor. 7. So that he requireth no more of the Corinthians than to follow him as hee followeth Christ And this made him so diligently to distinguish the precepts of Christ from his owne Councels To the married I commaund not I but the Lord to the rest I speake not the Lord. And our Sauiour Christ when he gaue commission to his Apostles He bids them Mat. 28.19 20. Goe teach all nations but what To obserue all things whatsoeuer I haue commanded you And therefore Chrysostome alleaging the wordes of Saint Paul Chrys in 1. ca. 2 Epist ad Tim. Hom. 2. Obey your Ouerseers or Prelates doeth thus limite them But if hee peruert anie poynt of faith though hee be an Angell obey him not And straight after Wee must not obey Paul himselfe if he speake any thing of his owne or as a man but we must obey the Apostle bearing Christ about that speaketh in him It is not lawfull saith Tertullian to deuise any thing of our selues Tertul. de praescrip advers Haeret. nor to follow that which others haue deuised wee haue the Apostles of the Lord for our Authors who deuised nothing of their owne heads but deliuered faithfully to the nations the doctrine which they receiued of Christ Therefore though an Angel from heauen should preach otherwise wee should count him accursed * Chrysost operis imper Ho. 20. in 7. ca. Mat. Euery teacher is a seruant of the Law because hee may neither adde of his owne sense vnto the Lawe nor according to his owne conceit take any thing from the Law but preach that onely which is found in the Law And these instructions both of Fathers and Scriptures were to little purpose if wee were not by them taught how to eschew the euill and followe the good And surely if the Vicars Consistorie and Seate In Luc. 12. were infallible as the Rhemists affirme what néede wee respect or studie to knowe the infinite Testimonies of Scriptures and Fathers brought to this purpose But this doeth not prooue that they are priuiledged and exempted from Erring For the Scriptures which were written for our instruction doe plainely conuince that both Priests and Prophets haue erred For God by the Prophet Malachie describeth what the Priests should doe and what they had done The Priests lippes should preserue knowledge Mala. 2. and they should seeke the Law at his mouth for he is the messenger of the Lord of hostes But yee are gone out of the way O ye Priests ye haue caused many to fall by the Law ye haue broken the couenant of Leui saith the Lord of hostes And this proud priuiledge which the Popes now challenge was claimed by the wicked Priests in Ieremies time Come Iere. 18 1â— say they let vs imagine some deuise against Ieremie for the Law shal not perish from the Priest nor counsell from the wise nor the word from the Prophet But God assureth them by his Prophet Ezech. 7 2â— for their arrogant presumption That the Law should perish from the Priest and counsell from the ancient What grosse idolatrie Vriah the Priest committed to please King Ahaz 2 King 16.10.11 Esay â—8 the Scriptures will tell you And Esay saith The Priest and the Prophet haue erred they haue gone away they faile in vision they stumble in iudgement And wee knowe there haue béen many Bishops and those orderly succéeding if you looke to their dignity not to the doctrine who haue béen heretickes as Berillus Paulus Samosatinus Photinus Nestorius Dioscorus Petrus Apameus Sergius Cyrus Theodorus Macarius And many others Canonically succeeding in Seates and Churches of no small account And if these fell into pestilent heresies that which was often and easie then is contingent and possible still And succession which saued not them froÌ„ erring cannot defend our Popes from the like danger And therefore are wee forewarned and taught by the Scriptures to beware and take héede of such men For S. Paul saith Actâ— 20. Out of your selues shall arise men speaking peruerse things to drawe disciples after them And the Lord when hee saith Beware of false Prophets Mat. 7. noteth that there shall be Prophets by their calling which shall be found false in their teaching As Saint Peter also witnesseth 2 Pet. 2. There were false Prophets among the people of the Iewes euen as there shall bee false teachers amongst you And to what purpose are these with many other testimonies but to teach vs that we must distinguish godly teachers not by office but by doctrine And if there were not an abilitie in vs in some sort to discerne them in vaine were we taught to beware of them neither had the men of Berea béen so highly commended for the triall of their Pastors doctrine Acts 17.11 if it had either béen vnlawfull or not their duety so to haue done But it séemes the Papists insist much vpon the outward quiet of their Church holding out this Buggebeare That the Church cannot erre assuming therby to be lords of scriptures Fathers Councels and all when they list But what hereticall Church may not haue the same quietnesse vpon the same perswasion and yet it preuailes in none but those that can be perswaded That this false priuiledge of not erring belongs to the Church taking the Church in the same sense which the Papists in this Tract vnderstand it of Fathers Councels and the Pope And who knowes not that notwithstanding your late Councel of Trent and diuers other Councels and learned bookes of all sides That yet the controuersies are not ended being indéede the neuer ending knotte of Religion For though this perswasion That the Church cannot erre may sometimes bréede an outwarde quietnesse in the Church yet it hath no force to establish men in the vnitie of Trueth since it may both deceiue and bée deceiued as is in this Treatise prooued Nor to end controuersies because all beléeue it not nor to abolish heresies which many times it may fauour as is euident by some fewe examples both of Popes and Councels before alleaged For further example put the case That some of the Church are perswaded according to Christs Institution and the practise of the Church of Corinth that the Laitie are not to be robbed of the Cup but are to receiue the Eucharist in both kinds and hereby call the priuiledge of the Churches not erring into Question how shall this be decided Shall it be sufficient for the Church or Pope to say I cannot erre and for proofe thereof to call all his Cardinals Abbots and Bishops to auow the same though it be contrary both to Scriptures Fathers and the long continued practice of the Church of
for cleane hearts to know it is not lawfull for them to iudge Idem coÌ„fes li. 13. ca. 23. And againe Wee must not iudge of so high authoritie neither of the booke which is thine because we submit our vnderstanding to it Contr Crescon li. 2 c. 31 And lastly To the Canons of the scripture pertaine certaine books of the Prophets and Apostles the which in any case we may not dare to iudge And this is the reason There may be no iudge of Trueth where no daÌ„ger of Error is And S. Austin saith Idem epist 19. ad Hier. It is wickednes to make a doubt speaking of the scriptures whether there be any error in theÌ„ or not Therfore there may be no iudges of them but the whole Church must be subiect to theÌ„ with all humility beleeue them And yet will the Papists assume vnto themselues to be Iudges of the scriptures appoint which shall be Canonical which shal be Apocrypha A Iudge we grant must haue two things before he be competent namely skill to discerne that he misse not the truth power to command that his iudgement may take place Now if he want either of these he is no fit Iudge And that the Pope hath neither of these thus I proue For the first I haue proued he may erre therfore no man is bound to his iudgment further thaÌ„ it is agréeable to the truth And to adde one proofe more the Councel of Basil saith This priuiledge Conc. Basil epist Syno 8 not to erre hath not been granted by a common or perpetual law to any not to the Angels for many of them fell not to our first parents for they were deceiued not vnto the chiefe Bishops for many of them are read to haue fallen into error and Heresie And as it is absurd to referre the iudgement to one man so is it also to intitle the church of Rome to be The Catholike Church since their chiefe Schoolemen and lights of the Papists Petr. a Soto contr coÌ„fess Wittenburg ca. de CoÌ„cil AlfoÌ„s à Castro aduer Haer. li. 1. c. 8. CoÌ„f. Petric cap. 24. contr BreÌ„t li. 2. Disput adu Luther tom 6. deauthoritat potest vniuers eccles ca. 5. Ibid. ca. 1. Sotus Alfonsus Hosius and Verratus doe witnesse that any particular Church may erre But that the Church of Rome is a particular Church the same Verratus affirmeth nor can the rest deme it And as he may erre so hath he no power to command princes or others but onely to propose the commandements of God vnto them as euery Bishop must and may by vertue of his vocation Further authority by violence to compell or by corporall and external means to punish no Prelate nor Pope hath by the Lawe of GOD since that belongeth to the Sworde which the Prince and not the Pope beareth Rom. 13. 1. Pet. 2. as Saint Paul witnesseth and also Peter from whose right the Pope makes claime to this superioritie But me thinkes I still heare them obiect that all this while wee appoint not who shall bee Iudges or at least Discerners of Truth And to that we answer Let him that maketh the claime vndertake the proofe for we find no place nor person to whom the Sonne of God hath referred vs for the right vnderstanding of his will but onely to himselfe and the Scriptures And that you may knowe this is not our priuate opinion a slander which you often obiect learne what Optatus S. Aug. hath set downe in this case Christ saith Optat. hath dealt with vs as an earthly father is wont with his children Lib. 5. coni Permenia Donat. who fearing lest they should fall out after his decease doth set down his Will in writing vnder witnesses if there arise debate among the brethren they goe to the testament Hee whose worde must end our controuersie is Christ let his Will be sought in his TestameÌ„t Which reason of Optatus S. Aug. vrging against the Donatists as he doth often We are brethren saith he to them why doe we striue Aug. in Psal 21. exposi 2 Our Father died not intestate he made a Testament and so died Men doe striue about the goods of the dead till the Testament be brought foorth when that is brought they yeeld to haue it opened and read The Iudge doeth hearken the Councellors be silent the Crier bids peace all the people is attentiue that the words of the dead may be read and heard He lieth void of life and feeling in his graue and his words preuaile Christ doth sit in heauen is his Testament gainesayd Open it let vs reade we are brethren why doe we striue let our mindes bee pacified Our Father hath not left vs without a Testament He that made the Testament is liuing for euer He doth heare our words he doth know his owne word Let vs reade why doe wee striue Were not this a silly speach of S. Austin if Traditions were to be receiued with equall Reuerence to the Scriptures or that Councels or Popes had such absolute authoritie But it séemes S. Austin ascribed more to this Testament than to any Pope or Councel whatsoeuer And to conclude this point Optatus in the Question of the Catholikes with the Donatists whether one should be twice baptised Li. 5. contr â—ermen Doâ—at You saith he say it is lawfull Wee say it it not lawfull Betweene your it is lawfull and our it is not lawfull the peoples soules doe doubt and wauer Let none beleeue you nor vs we are all contentious men Iudges must be sought for if Christians they cannot be giuen of both sides for trueth is hindered by affections A Iudge without must be sought for If a Panime he cannot know the Christian mysteries If a Iew he is an enemie to ChristiaÌ„ baptisme No Iudgement therefore of this matter can be found in earth a Iudge in Heauen must bee sought for But why knocke wee at heauen when here we haue the Testament of Christ in the Gospel Belike Optatus and S. Austin were not so wise in those dayes as our Iesuites and Papists are now for they could easily haue put doubts and scruples touching the sense of the Scriptures and could skilfully haue inforced such obiections as these and in all doubts could easily haue assigned their Pope as an Absolute Iudge But it is euident by the iudgement of these two Reuerend Fathers that we can haue no fit Iudge on earth Ioh. 12. God must therefore iudge vs by his word To which all the Fathers doe submit themselues and their writings as is before prooued and alleaged Yea we are warranted by the Prophet Osea to iudge our Mother as it is in the vulgar Translation and to contend with her that she is not the spouse of Christ Hos 2. nor he her husband that she may take away her fornications and adulteries c. as it is more at large in the Text. Thus haue
you séene briefly A view of the weaknesse of the Grounds wheron the Papists build their Religion which in a word is The Popes good pleasure And notwithstanding I haue in this small Tract layd downe our iust Exceptions both against Fathers and Councels yet would I haue none rashly to censure that we reiect al the Fathers and Councels for we imbrace them as wholesome meanes by which great light hath béene brought to the Church of God both in the Exposition of the Scriptures and the abolishing and confuting of Heresies But wee reiect with great reason the partiality that is now vsed in calling of Councels which must now only be done by the Pope of which he onely must be President and Iudge contrary to the order of the first 4. Generall Councels which Gregory professeth to receiue as the 4. holy Gospels Neither is any thing of force that is now decréed in Councel vnles it be confirmed by the Pope though in the first 4. Councels the Pope was neither President by himselfe nor his Legates neither needed they his confirmation Besides the whole order of Councels are now inuerted by the Popes contrary both to the institution of the Apostles in the first Councel holden by them â—ct 15.22 â—3 and to all antiquity For now none must haue determining voyces but the Bishops and they must sweare and take this oath before they sit in Councel the forme whereof thus followeth â—ecret li. 2. â—r 24. ca. 4. I R.N. will be faithfull from henceforth to S. Peter and to the holy Church of Rome and to my lord Boniface the Pope to his successors chosen Canonically and I will bee an helper to defend against all the world the Popedome or papall superioritie and the rules of the holy Fathers So God mee helpe and the holy Gospel According to that detestable clause annexed to the Decrees of reformation in the Councel of Trent Ses 7. in prooe Seâ— 25. de Reformat ca. vlt. Salua semper in omnibus authoritate sedis Apostolicae Prouided alwayes that the Popes authority be safe and no way preiudiced So that still he will alwaies haue a non obstante notwithstanding any law to the contrary to breake through all lawes to doe what he list But to conclude wee acknowledge according to the Scriptures That there are two sorts of iudgements in the Church of God The one priuate and the other publike priuate to all the faithful and spirituall 1 Cor. 2.15 10.15 Ioh. 4.1 as God calleth them who are willed to iudge of that which is taught and to trie the Spirits whether they be of God Publike to the asssmbly of the Pastors and Elders Act. 15.6 1. Cor. 14. for of that which Prophets teach let Prophets iudge And the spirits of the Prophets are subiect to the Prophets In all which the Scripture is the rule by which the Church must be directed neither hath she other authority than the ministery of giuing iudgement For the Soueraignty of iudgement must rest on Gods word Mat. 22.10 Iam. 4.12 For Christ is our only Doctor Lawgiuer The Lord open your eyes that you may sée the Truth and be thankefull to God FINIS An Abstract of the chiefe Points of this booke FIrst That all the Fathers do with general consent attribute all sufficiencie to the Scriptures making them the Rule of faith and the absolute meanes to determine all doubts and controuersies preferring them before the Church and all other writings of men whatsoeuer and further that the Church is no otherwise to be shewed or knowen but by the Canonicall Scriptures and that themselues and their opinions without the Scriptures are not to bee beleeued but reiected See the Preface and pag. 15. 16. 17. 18. 19. 45. 46. 47. 52. 2 That the Scriptures are to be expounded by the Scriptures and that we are not tied for the exposition thereof to any Father Councell or Pope And that no Papist can shew the consent of the Fathers that the scriptures are to be expouÌ„ded by any Father Councell or Pope See pag. 88. 89. 90. 91. 3 That the Fathers agree with vs taking the greater part in approouing those Scriptures which the Protestants doe to be Canonicall and in reiecting those which we do for Apocrypha See pag. 4. 5. 4 That the Fathers take the word Tradition sometimes for the Scriptures sometimes for the Customes and Ceremonies of the Church and the Papists which vrge them for matter of doctrine vnwritten and to bee of equall authoritie with the Scriptures doe depraue the Fathers making their doctrines contrary one to another yea contrary to themselues See the Preface 5 That chiefe Papists and pillars of Popery haue confessed that many and most of the doctrines wherein they varie from vs are grounded vpon Traditions And that it is extreame madnesse to thinke that the whole and entire body of Euangelical doctrine is to bee fetched out of the Apostolike writings and out of that little Booke of the New Testament In which doctrine they goe wholly against the streame of the Fathers and also discouer their abusing of the simplicity of their followers when they make them beleeue the greatest difference betweene them and vs is touching the sense of the Scriptures whereas by this their confession this consequent necessarily followeth That where there is no Text there needes no Interpreter See the Preface 6 That the Papists haue vttered open blasphemy in their bookes against the Scriptures in taxing them of insufficiencie in tearming them a Nose of waxe Inkie diuinitie dumbe Iudges no better than Aesops Fables without the authority of the Church That they take their authority from the Church That sometimes they are to bee expounded one way sometimes another That the Scriptures must folow the Church and not the Church the Scriptures preferring the authoritie of the Church aboue and against the Scriptures All which blasphemies are refuted not onely by the direct texts of Scripture but by the generall consent of the Fathers See the Preface 7 That the Papists vrge the credit of the Fathers for the receiuing of Traditions and though there be many Traditions which by the Fathers testimony haue the same authoritie to prooue them to be Apostolike that the others haue Yet the Papists receiue the one and reiect the other See pag. 12. 13. 8 That the Fathers haue held diuers errors vpon which it necessarily followeth that if they might erre in one thing they might erre in another And that their iudgements are often reiected by the Papists and therefore may with as great reason be reiected by vs and consequently are no perfite Rule to build our Religion on which euen the Fathers themselues confesse See pag. 20. 21. 22 23. 16. 17. 9 That there be many Counterfeits that haue vsurped the names of auncient Fathers wherby it is hard to discerne when a true Father and when a false speakes And though some of these Fathers be censured for counterfeits
Q. 14. par 1 And this later allegation of the 29 Chap. conuinceth the Author to be but a yong Father in respect of S. Basil For this bastard Basil in the same chapter mentioneth Meletius as a Bishop of ancient memorie dead long before his time Basi despi Sanct. ca. â—9 Insuper Meletium illum admirandum eadeÌ„ fuisse sententia narrant quicum illo vixerunt Sed quid opus est vetera commemorare Immò nunc qui sunt Orientales c. Moreouer Meletius that admirable Bishop was of the same opinion as they that liued with him report But what need I repeat ancient times The East Bishops which are at this day c. Now the true Saint Basil not only liued at the same time with Meletius but was made Deacon by him Socr li. 4. ca. 26. Basilij epi. 56 57 58 89. Socr. lib. 5. ca. 8. and wrote many letters to him and departed this life before him as the Church story witnesseth affirming Helladius S. Basils successor and Meletius were both present at the second Generall Councell at Constantinople vnder Theodosius and that must néeds be when Saint Basil was dead I wil yet enlarge this part out of the Rhemes Testament because I know you highly esteeme the booke and thinke it impossible that so many learned Diuines would abuse their Readers with counterfeit Fathers to confirme their doctrine Anot. Phe. Test â— Tim. 4. sect 13. Your Rhemists alleage a counterfeit Epistle of Alexander to prooue Holy water to be 1400. yéeres olde and it beareth date when Traianus and Helianus were Consuls which was neuer which prooueth it to be a counterfeit Anot. Rhe. Test 1. Cor. 11. sect 10. You alleage Chrysostome and S. Iames Masses for putting water into the wine in the Sacrament and that these Masses are forged are thus prooued Bals in Can. 32. Conc. Constant 6. First Balsamon Patriarch of Antioch saith That the Liturgie of Saint Iames was not extant in his time And in the Liturgy that beareth the name of Chrysostomes Masse as it is set foorth by Claudius du Sanctis There is a prayer for Pope Nicholas and the Emperour Alexius whereof the one was néere fiue hundreth yéeres the other 7. hundreth yéeres after Chrysostome For extreame Vnction you cite Augustin de visitatione Infirmor and Austin de Tempore Anot. Rhe. Test Cala. 4. sect 2. The first place is prooued a counterfeit by the censure of Louain In Censur general Tom. 10. as I haue shewed in the first example of these counterfeit Fathers and the other place de Tempore by the same warrant Oper. de Aug. Saint Augustine or as some thinke Anot Rhe. Test Acts 1 sect 7. Fulgentius is alleadged by your Rhemists to prooue prayer and preises to the blessed Virgin Marie saying Who can be able worthily to prayse or thanke thée Receiue our prayers obtaine vs our requests for thou act the speciall hope of sinners by thée we hope for pardon of our sinnes and in thée O most blessed is the expectation of our rewards c. What greater blasphemie can there be then to attribute that to the creature which is onely due to the Creator This is not to honor but to dishonour that blessed virgin in giuing those attributes to her which to proper and peculiar to our Sauiour Christ Now for proofe that this is a counterfeit Austine he addeth the tehimonie of Isiodorus who liued 200. yeeres after S. Austine which prooueth that it can neither be Saint Augustine nor Folgentius Besides this Augustine or Fulgentius in the 39. sermon doubteth of the Assumption of the Virgine Mary and yet when he may séeme to make for their superstition he must be vrged as the true Austine So little conscience make they of the abusing their Readers if it may hold them in blindnesse or giue any colour to their errors The questions of the Olde and New Testament are none of Saint Austins for in the 21 question it is affirmed that Melchisedech was the holy Ghost which saying the true Austine in his booke De Haeres refuteht as an heresie Bellar. de Sacr. Can. i. 2. ca. 10. This Bellarmine confesseth and yet the authoritie of this booke is often vrged by the Rhemists and other Papists But aboue all their forgeries Annot. Rhe. sest Act. 1. those touching the assumption of our Ladie are notable where for proofe thereof Saint Denis S. Damascen Athanasius and S. Barnard are alleadged In which they affirme that S. Denis writeth these and these things where neither the Author is S. Denis neither writeth he the things which they alleage Now for proofe that this Denis is a counterfeit Dionysius Areopagita who they here call S. Denis was dead many yéers before the works which beare his name could bee written for there is De diuin â—ominib c. 4 cited in them a saying of Ignatius out of an Epistle which he wrote to the Romanes as hee was going to suffer martyrdom Euseb in â—ronic Methodiâ— in Marâ—rio Dion â—reopag in the time of Traian the Emperour Now Dionysius died Ignat. epi. Ephes in the time of Domitian certaine yeers before And when Dion Aâ—op Episc â—thenarum Ignatius wrote it Onesimus was B. of Ephesus who succéeded Timothie Your counterfeit Timoth. â—isc Ephe. alleageth it to Timothie B. of Ephesus either after his decease or before it was written Besides it is set down in that Annotations that she liued 63 yéers being 25 yeres after Christs Ascension as it is in their Tables of S. Paul when she is supposed to be assumpted Now in the same Table After the Acts of the Apostles it is shewed by their owne account that it was 51 yeres after Christs Natiuity and 18 yeres after his Ascension before Dionysius Areopagita whom the tearme S. Denis was conuerted by S. Paul which f Acts 9 5 Galat. 1.18 Acts 9.26 Galat. 1 22 Acts 13 4. Gal. 2.1 Acts 15.4 Acts 16 5. Acts 17 34 the Scriptures also witnesse as any that will weigh the particular texts shal euidently perceiue So that he could not be one of the brethren to witnes her assuÌ„ption She being assumpted taking the largest computation thrée yeres before he was conuerted being at that time no Christian Hee might be proued a couÌ„terfeit by other reasons which I omit Now touching the things which are by the Rhemists fathered on him he saith no more thereof but that among the Bishops inspired of the holy Ghost Hierotheus excelled all the rest saue the Apostles in praysing Christs goodnesse when himselfe and Timothie and many of their holy brethren came together to behold the body which receiued God and which the Prince of life was in As for the miracles falsely forged by the Rhemists and fathered on him of the Apostles broght together S. Thomas coÌ„ming the 3 day after the Angels singing Hymnes thrée daies the buriall of the virgins body the desire of Thomas to
sée it the Sepulchâ—e opened for his sake and the body assumpteâ— into heauen he saith not one word of these conceits Nay he rather saith against them for he noteth namely That Iames was also present the brother of the Lord and Peter the chiefest and ancientest top of the Apostles And it is not likely he would haue noted two if they had beene all present here is no lesse than seuen lies in lesse than sixe liues Now let vs sée how Damascen your Portesse agréeth For DamasceÌ„ saith The Angels sung almost thrée dayes The Portesse thrée whole dayes Damascen saith The rest of the Apostles would shew to one of them who was absent the bodie The Portesse saith Thomas who was absent would worship the bodie Now what thée Damascen was let your owne doctors tell you who except against him for his tale of Gregory the Pope â—anus locoâ—m Theol 〈◊〉 11. â— Hessels â—nsure de â—stor sanct â— 3. â—erm de funct in 〈◊〉 and Traiane the Emperour Thus Damascen reporteth That Gregorie while he went ouer the market place of Traian did pray for Traians soule to God and behold a voice from heauen I haue heard thy prayer and I pardon Traian but see thou pray no more to me for the wicked These be good places to prooue prayer for the dead and yet it is against popish doctrine that prayer can deliuer any out of hell And if he had béen in Purgatory the Pope could haue dispatched that of himselfe without praying The next is Athan in Euang. de deipara who speaks not one word of your miraculous fault And yet is the same Athanasius reiected for a bastard in your owne edition In edit Petr. Nannij Louan praefat ad episcop Atiebat The last is fiue sermons of S. Barnards in all which likewise there is not one worde of that miracle So that vnlesse they were disposed to lie for the whetstone it is to be wondred how they dare thus abuse their Readers both with the names of counterfeit Fathers and false forgeries If I should collect all such like stuffe it would growe greater than this smal Tract But let the Christian Reader iudge of the rest as hee prooues these to be truly brought against them And if any desire further proofe of the Rhemists sincerity in alleaging Fathers let him obserue these places viz. The constitutions of Clement Luk. 4. Sect. 1. Ignatius Matt. 4. Sect. 2. 1. Peter 2. Sect. 6 Dionysius Areopag Act. 8. Sect. 6. Hypolitus Mat. 24. Sect. 5. Policarpus Act. 6. Sect. 1. Miltiadi Fabian Act. 8. Sect. 6. S. Andrew S. Martiall Hebr. 10. Sect. 11. The Masses of S. Iames Basil and Chrysostome 1. Cor. 11. Sect. 10. Clicton for Ciuil Ioh. 11. Sect. 1. and Paulinus Ioh. 9. Sect. 2. All these are counterfeit Fathers and vrged by the Papists vnder the names of true Fathers to countenance their corrupt doctrine And therefore no maruell if popish leaders instruct their followers to get vs into the plaine field of their Motiues out of our weake and false castell of onely Scripture as Bristowe the Licentiate tearmeth it Brist Motiu 48. And it is no maruell that they haue such store of the Fathers and that our new masters as they tearme vs cannot compare with these Fathers in the doctrines they deliuer when they bring vs onely the names of fathers I could giue instance likewise how the Fathers are often contrary one to another yea contrary to themselues Thus I hope it is plainly prooued by these foure iust exceptions that the Fathers iudgements are no infallible rule for a man to build his faith on though it be imbellisht with the churches exposition And yet wee reuerence and honor them as men that haue brought great light to the vnderstanding of the Scriptures But what doâ— you vnderstand by intituling the ancient Fathers with the name of the church Papist I meane Harâ—â—g Rai that the ioint consent of the Fathers in all doctrines deliuered by them is the doctrine of the Church Protestant 15 What doe you meane by the ioint consent of the Fathers Papist I mean by the ioint consent of the Fathers that which all or the most part of them doe deliuer for trueth wherin if there be any difference the greater number is to be followed for a fewe may bee deceiued more easily than many Protestant 16 This rule séemes to be very vncertaine for you knowe that king Ahab was deceiued by the consent of false prophets 2. Chron. 1â— 5 11. euen 400. against Micaiah yea when the Fathers in the great Councel of Nice were about to decrée that Bishops Priests DeacoÌ„s should not vse their wiues Paphnutius alone Sozom. li. 1. cap. 2â— rose vp in the midst of their Councell and fréely contradicted it and preuailed Besides in the third Exception before it is plainely shewed that the greater number of Fathers are by your selues reiected in the diuision of the coÌ„mandements and in the controuersie betwéene S. Austine and Hierom touching Peters reproofe par 1. wherein your selues grant Torrensis confes Aug. lib. 2. cap. 1. tim â— that Austin iudged more soundly What is therefore then to be done that a certaine and sure ground may bee found out Papist Then a better and more sure way is that which by the faithfull Pastors of the Church is decreed in a generall Councell which cannot erre Protestant 17 Indéed I must confesse it is a sure way to build our faith vpon those Councels which cannot erre But how shal we be assured that they cannot erre Papist We are assured by the Scriptures That the Church cannot erre as is euident by these places following Mat. 18.20 Our Sauiour Christ saith That when two or three are gathered together in his name that he will be in the midst And Ioh. 16 13. he promiseth to send vnto his Church the holy Ghost which shall leade them into all trueth 1. Tim. 3. And S. Paul calles it the Pillar and ground of trueth Vpon which places and many other which for breuity I omit wee conclude that the Church cannot erre which to speake as the Schoolemen doe we call the Church representatiue because the whole Church is there represented in a gerall Councell Protestant 18 Take héede what you doe Will you bring the Church contrary to the iudgement of many learned Papists mentioned in the preface of this booke to take her authority from the Scriptures and to be tried by them whether it may erre If you doe it will be the vtter ruine and destruction of your Religion for the Scriptures will conuince the Councel of Constance of error in taking away the cup from the Laitie contrary to S. Pauls expresse commandement saying 1. Cor. 11. Let a man examine himselfe and so let him eate of this bread and drinke of this cup. And contrary to the Institution and commaundement of Christ himselfe saying Drinke you all of this Mat. 26.27