otherwise saith the Vindicator or his friend for him if he Abraham were justified by the works done without the help of grace he might as vvell glory before God as men which is not true in every behalfe for he received his internal helps from God and not from himself Psalm 100. It is he that made us and not we our selves But the Apostle tels us saith he that although by those works done by the help of grace he might glory before men where doth he tell us so yet not before God and therefore he vvas not justified by those vvorks in the sight of God But as the premisses vvere false so is the conclusion vvhich he dravvs from thence for by every grace of God he vvas justified in some kind of actual righteousnesse and purged from the contrary sin vvhich is the only justification vvhich Paul pleads for in Jesus Christ necessary to life Nor is his next reason lesse absurd vvhere he saith for if vve could be justified by any vvorks hovvsoever done by grace or vvithout grace then the vvages that is eternal life is not counted of favour but of debt Is it not so when vvithout the rich grace of God the duties required unto eternal life cannot be performed But saith he vvhen vve cannot be justified by our ovvn vvorks nor are we so justified but by believing in him that justifieth the ungodly so that he makes them godly that were before ungodly who is in Jesus Christ what are any ungodly that are in Christ see 1 Cor. 6.11 that we are then justified by his righteousnesse and saved by his merits like the hungry dreamer Isai 29.8 who dreameth that he eateth but when he awaketh his soul is empty Then faith saith the Apostle and not any kind of works is imputed to him for righteousnesse Rom. 4.5 But here the new false Apostle John of Burstou corrupteth and falsifieth the Text for these words and not any kind of works are not found there See Rev. 22.18 what his reward is like to be for if any man shall add unto these things God shall add unto him all the plagues that are written in this book But Pag. 64. he saith I shall here close this point with these conclusions First that no man that is a sinner can be justified by his own obedience to the moral Law Secondly that no man that hath offended the Law can be justified by his own satisfaction for his transgression But who denies either of those or to what purpose is all this unlesse as we said before to entertain his Reader with kickshaws But wanderers love extravagancies As to the first of these he saith that by the Law cometh the knowledge of sin Rom. 3.20 that is the Law accounteth all such to be sinners and accounteth them as transgressors and therefore they can never be pronounced guiltlesse by that Law which proves them guilty but every man is a transgressor of the Law to wit before grace and for some time after Rom. 3.9 Gal. 2.1 Joh. 1.8 11. and our consciences testifie it to our faces Therefore can no man be justified by his own obedience to the Law But what is this to the obedience of Christ in the Saints by which alone as we have often said they may be justified freely and ought so to be Secondly he saith that a sinner which hath once offended can never by any action or passion of his own make satisfaction to the justice of God for his transgression Yet can God freely remit thousands and millions of such transgressions to the converting sinner and the Law saith he being broken there is no way to be justified by the Law but by making a plenary satisfaction for the transgression which no sinners satisfaction can do because a finite act can never be a sufficient value to satisfie the offence that is done against an infinite goodnesse as also because all that we can do yea much more is required of us now that assisting grace is tendered as our duty to the Law or Law-giver and therefore it cannot be rendred as any payment for the breach of the Law Therefore saith he to conclude this point or truth we are not under the Law for the justification of our persons as Adam was nor for satisfaction of divine justice as those that perish but we are under it as a document of obedience what perfect or imperfect and a rule of living But not as we ought to do by his doctrine T is not saith he published from Sinai but from Sion but to whom is it so as a Law of liberty what to take our sleep and swing in sin and as a new Law not as a Law of condemnation and bondage Yes it is so published still to impenitent and unbelieving men 1 Tim. 1.9 knowing this that the Law is not made for a righteous man but for the lawlesse and disobedient And yet he saith Pag. 65. that the obedience is not removed yes by his doctrine a great part of it is but the disobedience thereof is both pardoned and cured But how perfectly pardoned but inchoatively cured by his doctrine for saith he the observance thereof is necessary as a fruit of faith but mark how enormously he speaks in the next words but not saith he as a condition of life and righteousnesse yet necessary necessitate pracepti as a thing commanded the transgression whereof is the incurring of sin not necessitate medii as a strict undispensible means of salvation the transgression whereof yes if it be habitual or final is a peremptory obligation to death But we have proved before out of Mat. 5.18 19. and Rev. 14.22 that this is required by Christ as the way to life by the necessity of a medium or means as well as of a precept especially of those that have both space and means to attain unto it in Christ And thus saith he of the former of the two last branches of the second position wherein I have clearly shewed as one would shew a small and remote object in a dark night that as no man can be justified by obedience to the Law nor the works of the best Christians cannot justifie them what not in Christ And now he comes to the last branch that we are only justified by the righteousnesse of Christ which being rightly understood we also maintain We beleeve and maintain saith he as the Scripture teacheth us what is that That we are acquitted and absolved from our sins and so justified in the sight of God by and for he should have said through the righteousnesse of Jesus Christ And so do we but not in his way and sense And though we have said heretofore that justification and remission of sins are two different things yet we would be thus understood that the pardon of sins in his sense which is to take away the guilt or obligation unto punishment and leave the corruption behind and justification that is to make us just holy and good or liberative
produceth to confirm his position with that sin will remain as aforesaid and because they cannot be had therefore he offers them his pamplet of non-sense to delude them with who are hasty to believe him And whom can he mean by weak capacities but such as he is afraid are not stoutly resolved to stand to his positions but that he doubts they will be drawn off if they search the Scriptures from believing such pernicious doctrine to their souls as that sin will remain in the best Saints so long as they live What can he mean by those words in his next paragraph where he saith that he doth endeavour their satisfaction and confirmation but that he desireth to confirm sinne to remain in them as long as they live that so they may be satisfied with it And therefore he saith he present them with some few collections if he had presented none it would have been more for his credit and comfort in the end to perswade them that sin will remain in the best Saints as long as they live and that without dispute if they will take his word for it who is most frequent in lying What can he mean by those words his collections seriously to be weighed and digested by them but that he would have them so setled rivetted in weak capacities as that they may never forget his tenents that they and the best Saints must live in sin while they live among men and that upon all occasions when the enemies to his doctrine talke of mortifying all sin in this life they may reply and say as the Lady Abbesse did to her wanton daughter both justified by the Vindicators positions By Saint Peter and Saint Paul Daughter sinners are we all for so this Veterator doth impudently maintain that sin will remain in the best Saints as long as they lâ—ve and therefore needs must it remain in the Lady Abbesse and her daughter even to live a wanton life as their excusable infirmities because the best Saints must have their failings What can he mean when he saith in the same paragraph these collections may by the blessing of God enable the meanest capacities c. but that he desireth God may bless them so as to remain where they are and to live in sinne if he mind his position while they live a mortal life What can he mean in his next paragraph where he saith I desire to blesse God for what others have done but that it is his prayer and thanksgiving to God for such men who preach up sinne if he mind his position and maintain that it will remain in the best Saints as long as they live else he resolveth to be none of the best if any Saint at all What can he mean by his next words in the same paragraph if that which I have now done be any thing serviceable it hath obtained its end but that he had no other end in his eye and thoughts in writing this pernicious Vindication and destructive to a good life but to petswade men to live quietly in sinne and not to trouble themselves and grieve for that they cannot help because as he saith sinne will remain in the best Saints as long as they live What can he mean when he further saith I am willing to spend and to be spent for the Israel of God but that they are the Israel of his God who prevail if he mind his position against the grace of Christ for to remain in sinne as long as they live for Christ came to redeem his Saints from all iniquity Ti. 2.14 and to purifie to himself a peculiar people zealous of good works and for whom will he spend and be spent but for such prevailers who can prevail if he mind his tenents against all gain-sayers that sin will remain in the best Saints as long they live For these and with these he will spend his patrimony and all he can get besides by his practise as an Emperick at large What can he mean when he addeth further that he will be spent but that he expecteth at last to be spent in a sinful life himself for he saith in his Vindication that death onely putteth an end to a sinful life And what can be the sense of those words in the same paragraph that being the end for which we are what we are but that he looketh on himself and those of his mind and way to be appointed by some let him name by whom if he mind his positions to maintain that sin will remain in all Saints so long as they live and that is the end for which he is become what he is in shamlesness to maintain that sin will remain in the best Saints as long as they live What can he mean by those words in his next paragraph where he saith to his allies and Levites you are now upon the stage fight the good fight of faith but that if he mind his position to remain in sin and disobedience is the object of his faith and that he doth understand Saint Jude when he biddeth them to contend for the faith once delivered to the Saints v. 3. of that Epistle that he biddeth them contend for so this Veterator doth that sin will remain in the best Saints as long as thy live as the faith which was once delivered to the Saints if any do deny it and contradict the same What can he mean by his words be couragious fight c. but he would have them to fight for it if he do mind his position that sinne wil remain in the best Saints as long as they live that so he and his friends may go for eminent Saints as long as they are in this world whatever they are accounted to be in the world to come When he telleth them they are upon the stage what can he mean in reference to his position but to put them in mind that they are above and Doctor Drayton must stand below to hear thiâ— forsworn Veterator make oath to a senselesse article namely that Doctor Drayton should say that when we have fulfilled the Law then Christ would be as a bridg to carry us over to Heaven which is too senselesse to come from Doctor Drayton who knew I say once again more divine truth then all the contrary-minded Divines in Wiltshire besides I do attest it to to be falsely laid to Doctor Draytons charge for I was present at the same time when and where it is said the same or like words were spoken by him What can he mean also by those words sight the good fight of faith but that it is good for them if he mind his position to fight against us who plead for a possibility of a total mortification of sin in this life and do deny their rash assertion of sinns necessary remaining in the best Saints as long as they live Was there ever Veterator that abused Scripture-phrase more then this one doth in a Preface that must relate to his
the rich man being in hell I say it is true of all men that they have Moses and the Prophets inwardly whom they ought to hear Luk. 16.29 30 31. To which adde that which is written Rev. 6.9 10. And when he had opened the fifth seal I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held and they cryed with a loud voice saying how long O Lord holy and true dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwel on the earth And white robes were given to every one of them and it was said unto them that they should rest for a season untill their fellow-servants also and their brethren that should be killed as they were should be fulfilled Concerning which we may observe that they were no outward Prophets and Apostles for such cry not for vengeance but pray for their persecutors as Stephen did and therefore they must needs be inward and spiritual messengers of God who cry for vengeance against the earthly sins and lusts of men by whose means they had been killed Qui capere possit capiat Give me leave here to observe two things more upon Rom. 5.14 First that those persons are said here not to sin in Adams fall but rather if they had sinned that it was after the similitude of Adams transgression where the Apostle had fair occasion to speak of our guilt and fall through that sin if he had known any such thing Secondly that Christ is yet to come even to the beleevers namely Christ as he is the second Adam and the Lord from Heaven so Heb. 10.36 37. Jam. 4.21 22. 1 Pet. 1.13 1 Joh. 3.1 2 3. First he saith but untruly pag. 6. that the sin of Adam and the lust which he contracted did reign over all men from the first Adam to that Moses the Lawgiver so he means Secondly that not onely all men but every part of man is shut up under the guilt of that first Adam's sin what infants Christ and all Thirdly that the Apostle proves this at large Rom. 3.9 19 23. But what are those words to this purpose which he produceth there to wit what then are we better then they no in no wise for we have proved before that both Jewes and Gentiles are all under sin But I say first that the Apostle here doth not go about to prove that the infants of either are so Secondly that this is not corruption descended from our first parents fall but contracted by our own fall and disobedience But he goeth on with the Apostles words ver 19. Now we know that what things soever the Law saith it saith it to them that are under the Law that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God vers 23. For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and Rom. 11.32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief that he might have mercy upon all But doth the Law speak any such thing to or of infants No we have shewed the contrary out of Genesis 9.6 Eccles 7.29 Jer. 2.21 Mar. 10.14 1 Cor. 14.20 Jam. 3.9 before quoted to which adde Matth. 13.24 25. and the parable of the Talents Matth. 25. and that of the lost groat or peece of silver and that of the prodigal Son who had a portion to spend which he afterwards wasted as the said woman also had a peice of silver before she lost it Luk. 15. All which prove that by creation still we have a talent a measure and a portion of innocency and righteousness born with us After the universality of persons he goeth about to prove that sin defileth all the parts of man which is true when men open a free passage and entrance unto the Devil which all men do not But the Scriptures which he cites as Gen. 6.5 and 8.21 Rom. 3.13 14 15 16 17. do not fully prove it as he saith they do but none of those defects and defilements which he enumerates there and in the seventh page were drawn down from the first Adam to us That the whole frame of a mans heart is evil continually and pag. 7. he saith that our sin cleaves as close to our nature as blackness to the skin of an Ethiopian which cannot possibly be washed off Then Gods promises made Ezek. 36.26 and elsewhere that he will pour clean water upon us and cleanse us from all our filthiness and abominations are to no purpose and Christs design Ephes 5.25 26 27. is frustrated That it is an evil ever present with us Indeed the Apostle saith Rom. 7.21 of himself and others that were then or had been babes in Christ that when I would do good evil is present with me that is too usually but not alwayes for at length he knew nothing by himself 1 Cor. 4.4 and the Devil is at length cast out quite by those that wanre aright Rev. 12.10 yea he is ofttime made to flee away in the mean time Jam. 4.7 resist the Devil and he will flee from you But he goeth on and saith pag. 8. That it will be ever present with us to derive a deadness a damp a dulness and an indisposedness upon all our services How then is Gods oath made good who sware unto Abraham that he would grant unto us that we being delivered out of the hands of our enemies might serve him without fear cheerfully in holiness and righteousness all the dâ— yes of our lives Luk. 7.73 74 75. or that fulfilled Prov. 4.12 When thou goest thy steps shall not be straitned and when thou runnest thou shalt not stumble See the contrary Psal 119.14 16.24 47. That this sin casts such iniquity upon our holiest things or duties that we stand in need of a priest to bear and expiate the same for us because it is said Exod. 28.38 that Aaron should bear the iniquity of the holy things which Israel should offer to the Lord. Which Scripture is perverted by him and others who understand it not for the gifts of their hallowed things which Israel offered unto the Lord were to be perfect and complete in themselves Lev. 22.21 22 23. if these were any way defective the priest was not to receive them nor offer them But that Aaron might offer those in an holy manner also after Gods prescript he was to wear upon his Mitre a Golden plate with this Inscription for a remembrancer Holiness to the Lord or else if he failed not they but he was to bear the iniquity of their holy or hallowed things How doth this Text then serve his turn to that end for which he cites it That this Sin derives venome upon every action that cometh from us Why doth the Apostle Paul then charge Timothy thus 1 Tim. 6.13 14. I give thee charge in the sight of God who quickneth all things and before Christ Jesus that thou keep this commandement without spot unrebukable till the coming of our
answereth that he sinneth not as he is regenerate but in his unregenerate part or as he is unregenerate But so do even the unregenerate sin in that part and manner and yet they sin to death or else they could not perish But he confesseth against himself that sin somtimes reigneth in the regenerate which thing he had denied before And then he brings in John as he hath done often to prove that all have sin in them 1 Joh. 1.8 which is his mistake of the place that he understands not for John doth not only explain his meaning better ver 10. but at the first of the next chapter writes even to the babes not to sin as we have shewed But he will give us his sense 1 Joh. 1.9 whose words are these If we acknowledge our sins he is faithful to forgive us This therefore saith he pag. 44. is the meaning of Saint John that the regenerate do sin but make not much of their sin or they doe not set open the door or yield to evil desires so as to cast off all love to godlinesse and not to repent But we have shewed the contrary even now and might doe further out of Ezek. 18.23 Mat. 12.43 44 45. Heb. 10.27 28. or more briefly because as he tels us yet with more words but to as little purpose that he which is born of God makes not a trade of sinning he lives not in his sin he fancies not his sin he delights not in his sin he sins not with purpose with pleasure with malice with perseverance sin reigneth not but as the Apostle speaks the evill that I doe I would not doe And cannot some of them that are yet unregenerate or but under the work of the Law at the furthest say so likewise we know who said Video meliora proboque Deteriora sequor But here he brings the latter part of that verse 1 Ioh. 3.9 by way of objection His seed remaineth in him neither can he sin because he is born of God To which he gives his former answer that he sins nor unto death But is not this to adde to the word that is written our own words and so to come under that curse Rev. 22.18 Then he brings in a fourth Scripture of our alledging as he pretends to wit 1 Pet. 1.21 being born anew not of mortal but of immortal seed by the word of God who liveth for ever From whence he saith that we conclude that since this immortal seed never dieth in them that are born of it they ever remain regenerate retain grace and never fall into sin But as this objection is here 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 impertinent and upon a new head or point of doctrine so his answer is suitable and false also into the bargain to wit that the regenerate may and do lose grace and the holy Spirit of God in regard of some gifts and those sometimes more and fewer but not in respect of all the gifts for still there remaineth in them some print of faith and conversion which yet by yielding to evil inclinations and desires is ofttimes so opprest and darkened that it can neither be known to others nor confirm themselves of the grace of God and their own salvation for the present howbeit saith he it suffers them not wholly to forsake God and the known truth or the embracements of Christs merits by faith so David prayeth Psal 51.10 11. Create in me a clean heart O God and renew a right spirit within me and restore to me the joy of thy salvation But was this by vertue of the old seed of grace when David had been long in his sins of Adultery and murder without any true repentance for them or by Nathan's coming unto him to call him to repentance Therefore his conclusion from thence page 45 is not consequent to wit that David had not wholly left cleanness of heart righteousness of Spirit nor the way of salvation because then he would not have asked them afresh of God as he doth For though some cleanness of heart and rectitude of spirit might remain in him yet he had wholly forfeited and lost the joy of Gods salvation Secondly he further answereth that the seed of God which is his word working true faith and conversion abideth and dieth not Concerning their conversion he means a new and final perseverance however they may fall often grievously and foully before the end because John saith 1 John 2.19 If they had been of us they would have continued with us But we have proved the contrary before out of 1 Tim. 5.11 12. unto which adde 1 Tim. 1.19 holding faith and a good conscience which some having put away concerning the faith have made shipwrack and 2 Tim. 1.15 and 2.17 18. 4.14 15. In the 45 page he brings out other Scriptures as produced against him by us and in the fift place that of our Saviour Matth. 7.18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit To which he answers that it cannot as it is a good tree which shall so come to pass in the life to come but as it is partly good and partly evil it may bring forth evil fruit whereof saith he we have sufficient trial and experience in this life Must we then bring forth no good fruit here But Solomon saith Whether the tree fall to the north or to the south in the place where it falleth there it shall lie Eccles 11.3 and David Psal 91.12 13 14 15. The righteous shall flourish as the palm tree he shall grow as the Caedar in Lebanon those that be planted in the house of the Lord shall flourish in the Courts of our God they shall bring forth much fruit in old age they shall be fat and flourishing to shew that the Lord is upright he is my rock and there is no unrighteousness in him A sixth Scripture he undertakes to answer which we shall truly own as alledged by Doctor Drayton in his sermon is this Ephes 5.25 26 27. but it seemeth the Vindicator was afraid to recite the words as being too full and evident against his position and purpose which are these Hu bands love your wives as Christ also loved the Church and gave himself for it that he might sanctifie and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word and might present it to himself a glorious Church not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing but that it should be holy and without blemish Concerning which he saith This Text shews us how Christ in this life by the word and Sacrament and by the operation of grace doth cleanse us that in the state of glory we may be perfectly holy without spot or wrinkle But how proves he that this must be then done and not before This saith he I shall prove by these ensuing reasons First because here we know but in part and consequently can love but in part But we have proved that by and in the new covenant it is promised that such a
measure of knowledge is to had if sought for that men shall not need to say know the Lord for they shall all know me from the least to the greatest Jer. 31.32 33. and that the knowledge of the Lord shall abound like as the waters cover the sea Esay 11.9 His second reason is that if grace were consummate in this life there should be no difference between the state of grace and of glory Yea grace may here be consummate in his degree and that in a very high one and yet fall short of that transcendent measure which shall be attained in the life to come What saith Paul Phil. 1.21 for me to live is Christ and to die is gain His third reason is petitio principii all the Saints on earth have sin remaining in them and they that deny it are liars and have no truth in them Yet we do deny that all Saints must while they are upon earth have sin remaining in them and have a greater Divine then Mr. John Tendring to warrant us even the holy Apostle John upon whose testimony which he understands not he ignorantly and confidently relieth See 1 Joh. 4.17 5.4 5. Rev. 7.14 15 17. 14.3 4 5. before often cited Yet we are not such liars as he is notoriously known to be and we hope have more truth in us then he and his book set forth But he adds that all the Fathers against the Novatians and Donatists understand this place Which if it were true as it is not the Novatians may convince them to be Novices not Fathers and the Donatists evict them to be Dotists or Dotards for the Scriptures shew clearly that we must or ought to be such before and for the obtaining of the kingdome of glory 1 Cor. 1.8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ Phil. 10.11 That ye may be pure and without offence in the day of Jesus Christ being filled with the fruits of righteousness 1 Thes 5.23 And I pray God that your spirit soul and body may be preserved blameless untill the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ 2 Pet. 3.14 Wherefore beloved seeing ye look for such things be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace without spot and blameless But he saith it is the Church triumphant and not the Church militant that must be found without spot or wrinkle Yet the Church of Smyrna Rev. 2. and much more the Church of Philadelphia Rev. 3. do appear to be such here because Christ himself who searcheth the hearts and reines Rev. 2.23 and who finds fault with five of the aforesaid Churches of Asia and upon occasion rebukes them sharply finds not the least fault with these but commends them highly and that may also be in some sense a triumphant Church who hath upon earth gotten victory over all her enemies and in that behalf triumpheth with Paul Rom. 8.33 39. In the seventh place he brings 2 Tim. 4.7 to be answered by himself where Paul saith I have fought a good fight and finished my course which he fortifieth against himself as if it were not of sufficient strength by it self for him to oppose which Text the Vindicator will not observe nor the other place 1 Cor. 9.27 where Paul saith but I keep under my body and bring it into subjection lest when I have preached unto others I my self should be a cast-away To both which he answers page 46 as he was wont to do without truth or judgment First that Paul fought a good fight being now ready to be offered up but that conflict was yet to come saith he not so as to obtain exact perfection of grace and to be without all inherent sin of which he complaineth Rom. 7. Yes he was even at that time of his complaint freed from the Law of sin and death as we have often shewed out of Rom. 8.2 and that long before he was to be so offered up He tels us also but we know not to what purpose that Peter was led where he would not But surely it was not into sin John 21.18 Thirdly he saith Paul kept the faith and he who said unto him my grace is sufficient for thee and my power is perfected in weakness enabled him to overcome though he had corruptions remaining in him and the buffetings of Satan But doth the man understand what he saith It is the office of faith to purifie the heart from sin Acts 15.9.1 John 3.2 3. which faith Paul did not onely keep and retain but fought the good fight of faith till the battel was ended and so finished his race and course in that kind in dying to sin yet he justly expected that promised reward of which he speakes Rom. 6.8 2 Tim. 2.11 12. As to the second Text 1 Cor. 9.27 he saith that Paul kept down his body by fasting and prayer to bring it into subjection But was this the body of flesh and blood or the inordinate desires of the sinful flesh He tels us also that Augustine did use fasting prayers and tears to the same end But he did it not in the faith of Christs assistance and the hope of final victory of which it seems he despaired here and James shews that if we would obtain Jam. 1.6 we must him ask in faith nothing wavering for he that wavereth is like the waves of the sea c. In the eighth place he brings a second Scripture of which Doctor Drayton had made use in his sermon and these two are all that he can call his it is taken out of Ephes 4. from verse 10 to 15. And he gave some to be Apostles some prophets some Evangelists some pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the work of the ministry and for the edifying the body of Christ till we all come in the unity of faith and the knowledge of the Son of God unto a perfest man unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ Unto this he answereth after the old mode ignorantly and intricately First that the ministry of the word is given not onely to convert men from sin but to perfect men in holiness Then it must either effect that for which God hath designed it or else the Lord was mistaken in chusing and using too weak instruments But he adds yet so as the same Paul speaks Acts 20.32 Which is able to build you up that is to edifie and build the Saints more and more Where first he understands not that word of Gods grace which Paul speaks of there for it is the essential word which is almighty not onely able to build us up to perfection but afterwards to give us an inheritance among them that are sanctified Secondly he contradicts himself because this is able to build us up to the uttermost in the way of sanctification that we may be fittted for that inheritance Thirdly that fitting must also go before in this life therefore the two things
justification whereby sin is purged out upon which the pardon and removing of the guilt follows through the mercy of God and the merits of Christs death we say that these are diverse and dissentaneous things But otherwise as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is in the new Testament frequently to be understood of the dimission and purging out of sin by the Spirit so both in the old and new Testament by prayer remission and forgivenesse of sins both these are connectively and collectively to be understood because where the Lord is pleased to purge out sin and heal men of it he always pardons it or takes away the guilt and never takes away the guilt but where the corruption and fault are first put away Hence it is that not to impute sin as we said before is first to purge it by sanctification and then to pardon i◠as Psal 32.1 2 3. and Rom. 4.6 7. and where sin is so purged and not imputed there the righteousness of grace for the renewing of the same is freely imputed or given to the believing and obedient soul But this premised we return now to consider what he saith who first brings that place Rom. 5.18 As by one offence or of one the sin guilt or judgment came upon all men to condemnation to wit all that offended or sinned in that one personal Adam of theirs as he said before so by one righteousness or the justification of one the free gift came upon all unto the justification of life that is of glory for there is a two-fold justification the one of grace or the foregoing righteousness and the other of glory or the evelasting righteousness But wherein doth this Text speak for him or against us and our doctrine The second Scripture which he brings is 2 Cor. 5.21 For he hath made him to be sin for us to wit a sacrifice for sin and a patern and motive unto us teaching us how we should in him root it out that we might be made the righteousnesse of God in him first in grace and then in glory as we said before Where the Apostles words make farre more for us and our sense and doctrine then they do for him for there is not the least mention made in all the Context or any where else in all the Scriptures that Christs personal obedience unto the law without us and for us should become or be made our righteousness The third Text of Scripture produced by him is that Acts 13.38 39. Be it therefore known unto you men and brethren that through this man or Messiah is published unto you dimission or remission of sins and in him he that believeth that he is or may be justified that is purged from all things from which ye could not be justified or purged by the law of Moses Which Text makes so clearly for us that by way of warning we will adde Pauls next words Look to it or take heed lest that come upon you which is spoken in the Prophets Behold ye despisers and wonder and vanish or come to nothing for behold I work a work in the days of perfect sanctification a work to which ye will in no wise give credit though one tell or shew it unto you Acts 13.40 41. The words are cited out of Hab. 1.5 6. and imply also an heavy judgment to come by the Chaldeans or the enemies figured thereby which are the Devils His fourth Scripture by him quoted is 1 Cor. 6.11 And such were some of you but ye are washed but now ye are sanctified but now ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God And as other Scriptures made not at all for him but much more for us so this is clearly also against him shewing that washing from the act and habit of former sins sanctification by Gods Spirit and justification in in the name of Christ are one and the self-same thing as we further proved out of Titus 3.4 5 6 7. Rev. 22.11 and other clear places But here he saith that some may object and say this righteousness is Christs and how can a man be justified by the justice of another Unto the which he answers with some truth and some falshood that as sin is ours by propagation which we have often shewed to be false so righteousness is ours if we attain unto it truly by Christ by imputation But his righteousness which he here intends is onely such by putation and imagination And as Adam saith he derived sin to our condemnation which is one of his old Chimaera's so Christ brought life by his obedience to our justification Thus if many be made sinners by the disobedience of one man which if rightly understood is undoubtedly true then how much more shall many be made righteous by the obedience of man Jesus Christ Rom. 5.19 especially since the nature of Christ as he saith page 66. is far more divine then the nature of Adam and therefore is more powerfull in ability to work this effect to justifie us then Adams sin was to condemn us But as Adams sin without us and our conformity thereunto condemns us not so neither doth Christs obedience which is ab extra justifie us we speak of his active obedience and by his passive we have another benefit the pardon of sins upon our leaving of them and 1 John 5.11 12. saith he this is the record that God hath given us to wit eternall life to whom was it given to John and those in whom Christ was risen in the power of the eternal life and this life is in his Son so that he which hath the Son in that manner hath life and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life as yet that is saith the Vindicator he hath the righteousness whereby he bringeth us to eternal life But this is his gloss upon the Text and a meer dream and delusion and this saith he doth the Apostle most excellently shew unto us when he saith that God made Christ to be sin for us 2 Cor. 5.20 which we even now cited But he speaks no such thing as he aims at or dreams of for saith he as our sins were made the sins of Christ not by altering or transplanting them inhesively into his own person but by assumption of them imputatively to make satisfaction for them as fully and truly as if they had been his own inherent sins even so the righteousness of Christ but not his externall obedience is as truly made ours by imputation his inherent righteousness whereby he and we obey God is so as if we had perfectly fulfilled the law by our own personal and actual operation Prove this by Scripture Vindicator and you shall be made a Doctor in Divinity which you never was nor will be And therefore saith he justification is a gracious and judiciall act whereby he judgeth he should have said a judicious and moral a physical or metaphysical act of God whereby he judgeth first maketh
our faith for who is he that overcometh the world but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God The last Topick shall be the summe of all practical truth in Christ which Paul reduceth to two heads Ephes 4.20 21 22 23 24. as was said before But ye have not so learned Christ if so be ye have heard him and have been taught by him as the truth is in Jesus that ye put off concerning the former conversâ—tion the old man which is corrupting according to the deceitful lust and be ye renewed in the Spirit of your mind and that ye put on the new man which is created after God in righteousness and holiness of truth Then who holds out the truth of Christ we or the Vindicator let all wise men judge impartially between us Thus much for divine authority now for humane we shall first produce divers of the Fathers and some of those which the Vindicator or his friends for him have alledged against us to out-ballance him and then the authority of our own Church the best reformed of all the Protestant Churches in her established doctrine and late Liturgie For the first of these Justin Martyr in quaest respon ad Orthodoxos All men do sin not because we cannot do otherwise which appeareth from hence because all men are not intangled with all sorts of sins but some fall into these offences some into others and some men are involved with many sins some with fewer and some with none at all those of whom I spake before to wit Zacharie and Elizabeth Origen super Gen. homilia 11. But let us see how a man may be made the good savour of Christ sin is a filthy stinking thing In a word sinners are compared to swine wallowing who wallow in the filthy dung If there be any of you in whom there is no savour of sin but the savour of righteousness and the sweetness of mercifulness he is the sweet savour of Christ Cyprian serm de Baptism Christi The Law teach us to avoid sin it reproves transgressors and to the intent we should walk with washed and clean feet it foreshews all things that may offend and makes known unto us all diverticles whereby dangerous out-turnings and passages may be avoided it commands nothing that is impossible nothing that is austere or difficult Chrysos in 2 Cor. 11. homil 3. speaking of Abraham's prayer made to God in the behalf of the inhabitants of Sodom and the neighbouring cities which were to be destroyed Gen. 18. saith he that Abraham speaking there vers 27. by way of self-abasment before the Lord said Behold now I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord which am but dust and ashes and thus he did Because saith Chrysostom Abraham at this time had no sin left therefore he flies unto nature it self and because the name of earth contains in it something that is honest and decorous in its kind he adds the word ashes thereunto Hieron in Epist He which desires to reign with Christ must of necessity be pure or clean from all naughtiness and guile if thou wilt have thy part or portion with Christ thou must live after Christs pattern if thou desirest the society of the Saints keep thy heart clean from the very thought of naughtiness and sin because the celestiall Court receives none but those that are holy chast simple innocent and pure Augustin de vera falsa poenitentia For he is first to be purged with the fire of purgation who deferreth the fruit of his conversion unto another world and albeit saith he this fire be not everlasting yet it is greivous after a wonderful manner for it exceedes all the pain that ever any man suffered in this life Therefore let every one so endeavour to amend his faults here that he may not have cause to endure such pain hereafter Here his exhortation and counsel is good though his ground concerning purgation wants an Index expurgatorius Idem in lib. de baptism par If it be demanded whether a man be without sin in this life I confess he may by grace of Christ and the right use of his free-will Greg. lib. 2. mara cap. 8. If we say that Job offended in his speech or words which were wickedness in us to think we should confess that God had lost the victory in his challenge or offer made to Satan concerning Jobs exposal to his sifting and trial Prosper in his book of senten ex Augustino As some parents do aggravate original sin so some do lighten or abate it but none doth take it away save he onely of whom it is said Behold the lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world to whom no good of man is impossible to work no evil is uncurable Unto which adde that saying of Bernards by the Vindicator quoted yet without his additional That kind of sin which so often troubles us I mean concupiscence and evill desires may and should be repressed by the grace of God so that they reign not in us and that we give not our members as weapons of unrighteousness unto sin and then there is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Thus for the Testmony of the Fathers of which sort we shall alledge more in the confirmation of the second position Now for the doctrine of our English reformed Church heretofore established by law First in the Catechism is thus demanded and answered Q. What did your Godfathers and Godmothers then for you A. They did promise and vow three things in my name first that I should forsake the Devil and all his works the pomps and vanity of this wicked world and all the sinful lusts of the flesh Secondly that I should believe all the Articles of the Christian faith And thirdly that I should keep Gods holy will and commandements and walk in the same all the dayes of my life Q. Dost thou not believe that thou art bound to believe and to do all as they have promised for thee A. Yes verily and by Gods help so I will and I heartily thank our heavenly Father that he hath called me unto this state of salvation through Jesus Christ our Saviour and I pray God to give me his grace that I may continue in the same unto my livesend And afterwards reciting the Lords prayer Q. What desirest thou in this prayer A. I desire my Lord God who is the giver of all goodness to send his grace unto me and unto all people that we may worship him serve him and obey him as we ought to do c. And that it would please him to save and defend us in all dangers Ghostly and bodily and that he will keep us from all sin and wickedness and from our Ghostly enemy and from everlasting death And this I trust he will do of his mercy and goodness through our Lord Jesus Christ and therefore I say Amen And afterwards concerning Baptism Q. What is the inward and spiritual grace
signified therein A. A death unto sin and a new birth unto righteousness Hence it is that our Church prayed thus at the baptism of infants And humbly we beseech thee to grant that to the person baptised he being dead unto sin and living unto righteousness and being buried with Christ in his death may crucifie the old man and utterly abolish the whole body of sin And now we hope that the Vindicator had not renounc'd his baptism by sinful positions and his own wicked course of life Secondly in our late Liturgie we are taught thus to pray in the Collect on Easter-Tuesday and to like effect in many other places Almighty God which hast given thine onely Son to die for our sins and to rise again for our justification grant us so to put away the leaven of malice and wickedness that we may alwayes serve thee in pureness of living and truth through Jesus Christ Unto which we might adde that out of the Letanie From all evill and mischief and sin from the crafts and assaults of the Devil from thy wrath and from everlasting damnation Good Lord deliver us From all blindness of heart from guile vain-glory and hypocrisie from envy hatred and strife from all uncharitableness Good Lord deliver us From fornication and all other deadly sin and from all deceits of the world the flesh and the Devil Good Lord deliver us And thus much for the confirmation of the first position Come we now to the establishment of the second That the law of God may by the grace and help of Christ be so perfectly kept and fulfilled in this life as not to offend against the same yea as to be justified and that only by Christ of grace given whch we will divide into two branches and first prove the possibility of such a fulfilling by the like Topicks and authorities as we did the former and then briefly ratifie that which will follow by consequence namely that by such a fulfilling of the Law by the grace of Christ we may be justified before God and men according to the truth of the Gospel As for the first of these we take it for granted that the Law of God requireth no more of us then what is contained in those two commandements Mat. 22.36 37 38 39. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind this is the first and the great commandement and the second is like unto it Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thy selfe Because our Saviour saith vers 40. On these two commandements hang all the Law and the Prophets Our first Topick to prove all this attainable by grace is taken from Gods predestination and election See Joh. 15 16. I have chosen and ordained you that you should go and bring forth fruit and that your fruit should remain Rom. 8.29 30. For whom he did foreknow them he did predestinate to be made conformable to the image of his Son that he might be the first born among many brethren moreover whom he did predestinate those he also called and whom he called those he also justified and whom he justified those he also glorified Ephes 1.4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and without blame before him in love and chap. 2.10 For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God had before ordained that we shall walk in them 1 Pet. 1.2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God in holinesse unto obedience and in order thereunto unto the sprinkling of the blood of Iesus Christ that is his sanctifying Spirit as shall be proved hereafter The second Topick is from Gods expresse commands which cannot be impossible for they should be frustraneous tyrannical or unjust as aforesaid Gen. 17.1 I am the almighty God walk thou before me and be perfect Deut. 4.21 Ye shall not add to the words which I command you neither shall ye diminish ought from it that ye may keep the commandements of the Lord your God which I commanded you chap. 5.32 Ye shall observe to do therefore as the Lord your God hath commanded you ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left chap. 6.5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy might and those words which I command thee this day shall be in thine heart and thou shalt teach them dilligently unto thy children Levit. 19.18 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thy self fear the Lord. Deut. 6.24 25. And the Lord commanded us to do all those statutes to fear the Lord our God for our good always that he may preserve us alive as it is at this day And it shall be our righteousnesse if we observe to do all these commandements before the Lord our God as he hath commanded us chap. 10.12 And now Israel what doth the Lord thy God require of thee but to fear the Lord thy God to walk in all his ways and to love him and to serve the Lord thy God with all thine heart and with all thy soul chap. 18.13 Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord thy God Josh 22.5 But take diligent heed to do the commandement and the Law which Moses the servant of the Lord charged you to love the Lord your God and to walk in all his ways and to keep his commandements and to cleave unto him and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul Jerem. 7.25 But this thing commanded I them saying obey my voice and I will be your God and ye shall be my people and walk in all the ways that I have commanded you that it may be well unto you Mala. 4.4 Remember ye the Law of my servant Moses which I commanded in Horeb for all Israel with the statutes and judgements The third Topick is Gods promises to enable us to fulfill these by grace in Christ Deut. 26.18 19. And the Lord hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people as he hath promised thee and that thou ' shouldst keep all his commandements and to make thee high above all nations which he hath made in praise and in honour that thou mayst be an holy people unto the Lord thy God as he hath spoken Deut. 30.6 7 8. And therefore thy God will circumcise thine heart and the heart of thy seed to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul that thou mayest live and the Lord thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies and on them that hate thee and which persecuted thee and thou shalt return and obey the voice of the Lord thy God and do all these commandements which I commanded thee this day Isai 46.29 30 31. He giveth power to the faint and to them that have no strength he increaseth might even the youths shall faint and be weary and
God commanded any thing impossible to man and that Gods commandements cannot be kept of any man in particular but of men taken together August de Nat. Grat. cap. 4.3 God by giving his law unto us admonished us to do what we can and admonished us to ask what we cannot do Idem de tempor serm 61. Neither could God command any thing that is impossible because he is just nor will condemn any man for that which be could not do because he is pious or good Idem in Psalm 56. God would never command us to do that thing if he judged it impossible to be done of man if thou therefore considering thine infirmity faintest under the precept be comforted by example for he that gave us his example is at hand that he may also afford us his aide Idem in Heb. Epist 89. The love of God is diffused into our hearts from whence proceeds the fulfilling of the law not by the power of the will which is in us but by the holy Ghost which is given unto us Idem de verbis Apost serm 15. He that believeth in him shall not have his own righteousness which is out of the law though the law is good but he shall fulfill the law not by his own righteousness but that love which is given him of God for love is the fulfilling of the law and from whence is that love diffused into our hearts not from our selves but from the holy Ghost which is given unto us Idem lib. 2. in Julian cap. 1. Neither is the perfection of virtue to be despaired of by his grace who can change and heal that nature which was vitiated originally or from the beginning Prosp lib. Senten ex August The law is given that grace may be sought grace is given that the law may be fulfilled Idem ibidem The end of the law is Christ in whom the law of righteousness is not confirmed but fulfilled for all perfection is to be found in him beyond whom here is no place or thing whither the hope of faith and truth should extend it self Idem ibid. Every precept is light for him that loveth nor is it so to be understood as spoken upon any other occasion where it is said my burden is light but because he gives the holy Ghost by which love is diffused into our hearts we should do that freely and liberally which fear made us do servilely Greg. in homil 38. upon the Gospel called charity the wedding-garment which he that hath not before he comes to the great marriage is excluded To say nothing of Alippius Evodius Aurelius Possidius and many more of the ancients who with Aug. did hold That the law of God by grace was possible to be kept and fulfilled in this life we will adde a testimony or two of Leo and the Schoolmen and then come to our own English reformed doctrine he saith serm 12. de passione Where sin abounded there grace hath superabounded that those who were born with the guilt or prejudice of sin have power to be reborn unto righteousness for the gift of freedome is stronger or more forcible then was the debt of bondage and slavery Idem serm 9. de Jesun alibi He may justly press us with his precept who goes afore with his help and grace and again serm 9. de Jejun sept men We cannot attain to that which is promised unless we observe that which is commanded but because we commonly do this without the grace of God Also he addeth further upon those words of our Saviour be ye holy as I am holy seeing it seemeth difficult which I command run to the command that from whence the precept is enjoyned help may be afforded for performance As for the Schoolmen we have their judgment briefly comprehended in that verse Ultra posse vini non vult Deus ulla requiri Beyond mans possibility by grace The just God nought requires of mortal race As for our reformed doctrine and Liturgie those places which we alledged before upon the former position will speak to this also That as our Godfathers and Godmothers did promise and vow in our names that we should keep Gods holy will and commandements and walk in the same all the dayes of our life so we should by Gods help resolve so to do and to that end seek his grace that we may continue the same unto our lives end And afterwards when the catechist had set forth the duties of the whole law in the first and second table he saith My ' good child know this that thou art not able to do this of thy self nor to walk in the commandements of God and to serve him without his special grace which thou must learn to call for at all times by diligent prayer c. As for the Liturgie in the Collect upon the first Sunday after the Epiphanie the Church was wont to pray thus Grant that these thy people may both perceive and know what things they ought to do and also have grace and power faithfully to fulfill the same through Jesus Christ our Lord. And besides a prayer said after every one of the commandements in the close of all the Church prayed thus Lord have mercy upon us and write all these thy laws in our hearts we beseech thee To say nothing of the most learned Bishops that were in their ages Bishop Andrews Bishop Overal and Bishop White with other Grandees and Fathers of our Church King James upon the Lords prayer affirmeth that it is blasphemy to say that any of Christs precepts are impossible for that were to give him the lie who told us out of his own mouth that his yoke is easie and his burden light And Christs intimate disciple saith 1 John 5.3 that his commandements are not grievous Thus much for the first branch of the second position now for the second which follows thereupon That by this righteousness or obedience unto the law wrought by the grace of Christ we may be justified Take these twelve things into consideration First that justification is one and the same thing with sanctification in Jesus Christ as we have shewed out of many places of the Scriptures as 1 Cor. 6.11 But now ye are washed now ye are sanctified now ye are justified in the name of our Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God Tit. 3.4 5 6 7. He saved us by the washing of regeneration and by the renewing of the holy Ghost which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour that being justified by his grace we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life Rev. 21.11 where read the Text thus as it signifies in the Greek Let him that is unjust be unjust still and he that is filthy be filthy still but he that is justified be justified still and he that is sanctified be sanctified still Secondly that as we are sanctified by faith in Christ Acts 26.18 among those that are sanctified by faith in
believer must do as aforesaid 27. Qu. What is the meaning of that Matth. 28.20 ' And lo I am with you to the end of the world The reason of this Querie is because that is the divine record from which a succession of ministration is proved to continue downward from the Apostles to the end of the world from whence the ministers of the word and Sacrament do claim their own office to be Jure divino and that they are the Apostles successors descended lineally from them by vertue of Christs words and promise to the Apostles Lo I am with you to the end of the word But how they will prove what they say from the said words of Christ by rational arguments is the thing for the present we doubt of First because the words are spoken not to the Apostles successors ' Lo I will be with you to the end of the world but it is personally spoken to the Apostles ' Lo I am with you to the end of the world But to this it is said that Christ did intend their successors to be included under those words because the words are not literally true of the Apostles by reason they are fallen asleep with their Apostolical doctrine and are no more personally in this world therefore the words must include say they their successors ' I am with you namely my Apostles in your successors to the end of the world But this is an addition to Christs words for Christ saith no more but Lo I am with you to the end of the world and by what authority they make that addition aforesaid it concerneth them to consider because the curse is heavy whic his charged on them who adde or take from Christs words Rev. 22.18 19. But if they say Christ did intend to continue successors of the Apostles for the good of his Church to put them in remembrance and teach them how to walk in all the commandements of God without offence we then ask if it be so whether Christ hath appointed themselves to be the true successors unto the Apostles by vertue of the said words for to argue meerly from the said words there must be successors of the Apostles for divers good ends ergo we ministers aforesaid and them of our mind order and practise are the men is no better arguing to perswade the doubtful of what they say then he that would perswade himself that his sonne must be the next Bishop of C. because it is appointed by order and authority besides custome that he must be a Cambridge-man or an Oxford-man and if an Oxford-man then of this Colledge or another Colledge if of this Colledge then why not my son as well as another especially since I perswade my self he is the man intended for the Bishop Just so is the former argument Christ did intend to have successors in the Apostles ministration because he said ' Lo I am with you though the Greek text will not justifie that translation to the end of the world and therefore we are the ministers who are their successors Truly the Pope and Popelings argue just so for him to be Peters successor Peter say they was at Rome and governed there and Peter was the prime and chief Apostle for Christ said to Peter ' Feed my lambs feed my sheep Joh. 21.15 and thou art Peter upon this rock I will build my Church Math. 16.18 Now the Pope is a Minister also if you will take his word for it of Jesus Christ by vertue of the words of Christ aforesaid and he sits and rules at Rome where Peter governed Christs Church as they say therefore the Pope is Peters successor and head of the Christian world upon the foresaid account Do not the Protestant Ministers smile at such argumentations for the Popes supremacy and do the Ministers who are in contradistinction to the Pope argue any better for their succession and authority to be the Apostles successors their Ministers Bishops to be jure divino because Christ said to his Apostles ' Lo I am with you to the end of the world for suppose that Christ had said in plain terms ' Lo I will be with you your successors to the end of the world will it be rational to say quia antecedens ideo hoc consequens therefore we are specifically the said successors must there not be something else looked into and to be proved before they conclude ergo we are successors of the Apostles by reason Christ said ' Lo I am with you and your successors to the end of the world What are there no more maides then Maukin may there not be another sort of successors besides these claimers unto it which if there may be then it s but like the arguing of the man aforesaid for his sonne to be the Bishop of C. Surely Haman had a little better ground of argumentation for his perswading himself that he was only the man from former received and peculiar favours fom the King Est 3.1 2. 5.11 that the King would delight still to honour him above all others chap. 6. v. 7. and therefore upon surmise v. 7. he saith to the King upon the Kings asking what should be done to the man the King delighted to honour v. 6. Let the royal apparel be brought forth which the King useth to wear and the horse the King rideth upon and the crown royall which is upon his head and let this apparell and the horse be delivered to one of the Kings most noble Princes that they may array the man whom the King delighteth to honour and bring him on horseback through the streets of the City proclaim before him ' thus shall it be done to the man whom the King delighteth to honour what was Haman therefore the man truly he thought he should be the man upon the said same antecedent probability for it but yet he was deceived for it was another whom Haman never dreamed of Hence we say is it good arguing that the Apostles must have successors by vertue of Christs speech which we have not yet well considered of Math. 28.20 therefore we are their successors and so Ministers of Jesus Christ who can there be none but Haman which notes troubling that the King doth delight to honour is there not a Mordecai the hidden contrite teacher that he at last may have the honour conferred upon him that Haman was more then confident was intended for him Therefore he who argues from the general to the special as belonging to it must argue from the general to the special secundum id generis quod est in specie according to that of the generall that is in the speciall which is to be applied thus to our purpose The Ministers aforesaid do claim their ministration from the Apostles because they doubt not though the words they bring will not remove their doubt but the Apostles were to have successors and if successors then they themselves are the successors but how do