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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A10046	The defence of truth against a booke falsely called The triumph of truth sent over from Arras A.D. 1609. By Humfrey Leech late minister Which booke in all particulars is answered, and the adioining motiues of his revolt confuted: by Daniell Price, of Exeter Colledge in Oxford, chaplaine in ordinary to the most high and mighty, the Prince of Wales.	Price, Daniel, 1581-1631.; Leech, Humphrey, 1571-1629. Triumph of truth.	1610 (1610)	STC 20292; ESTC S115193	202,996	384

whatsoever he was in other points sure hee was no father or author of your position your citations out of him haue no one word of Evangelicall Counsails of perfection Mr LEECH The report and rumor whereof by relation of some friends no sooner came vnto my eares but presently knowing well the assured grounds of my doctrine I addressed my selfe to haue satisfied and contented any ingenious and vnpassionate auditour by a second repetition with a briefe punctuall and perspicuous explanation and confirmation of my aforesaid doctrine For I was altogether vnwilling to suffer the least imputation or scandall to be fastned vpon it or vpon the Author were it but in corners secretly and farther though I intēded not to run into a publike opposition yet now occasion might bee ministred vnto me others to vindicate a necessary truth from the detraction of calumnious tongues ANSVVER To satisfie anie auditor is not only ingenuous but a religious act But did you giue content to any mā that conferred with you in it Did you not rather in your preparation for the second sermon take occasion to cast the stumbling blocke of offence in your third verifying that speech 〈◊〉 Finis vnius mali gradus est futuri I will not aske you whether the second sermon were your owne or whether you purged the bowels of a Fryers Postill culd all those your pearles as you thought them out of the Dunghill of some moath-eaten Monke tyed vp in chaines till you came to free him and to binde your selfe The generall iudgemente vpon your booke when it came first foorth was this that it was composed of two styles diverse in forme vneequall in fabrique the one somewhat dull and leaden very resty the other more nimble and quicke-silvered but somewhat scurvy whervpon a familiar acquaintance of yours censured it thus that the grounde of your paper was plowed by an oxe and an asse a coniunctiō forbidden in the law I do not desire to make my paper guilty of idle wordes but yet this I must professe that your second repetition which you mētion doth savour of much vnsavory stuffe and hath in it d sapientiam attramentalem non mentalem Senec. You say you did not purpose to run into a publicke opposition when you did reiterate that in your second which you had in your former sermon But I desire you to summon the sobriety of your senses before your owne iudgement and confesse plainely how it could otherwise be But that the proclamation of cōtradiction in you would proue a publicke oppositiō mainetained by you weigh this in the ballance of discretion and you will finde it lightnes and innovation you seeme to ioine your forces in mainetenance of your position when you say occasion was given to you and others to vindicat this necessary truth What others assisted you Among vs all desire to purge the Temple from superstition to sweepe away those cobwebs which the Spiders of Rome haue hanged vp There is no one that dare polute our Holie places publiklie with anie such infectious doctrine so farre are your fellow Counsailors from making a plural number that a duall number never shewed themselues amongst vs yet in this controversie Mr LEECH CHAPT 3. BEing thus occasioned by the secret clancular murmuration of Brethren the fame whereof began now to disperse it selfe abroad to addresse some defence of my former doctrine I tooke the next opportunity to supply the publike place willing rather to giue a litle farther touch to convince the said Brethrē then to dwell as yet vpon any maine and full discourse which was not my purpose the point being yet not publiquely contradicted I repeated and dilated vpon the point more at large as it was originaly deduced out of the last brāch of S. Gregorie his distinction to wit quidā non judicantur regnāt to this purport and effect ANSVVER OCcasion and scandall be either given or taken they were both given by you rather then offered you You desired to giue a touch to convince the said Brethren all of vs were brethren in this all agreed in dislike of your manner of preaching which was so dull and Delphically mysticall that fewe heard you and none approved you But I woulde willingly desire you to reconcile these two places in this paragraph First that the fame of the brethrens murmuratiō began to spread it selfe abroad and yet within fiue lines you confesse the point was not publikely contradicted If murmuration be contradictiō then non sense may serue as a marginall note But because you breath at the brethren againe in this chapter though I defende none that Schismatically contradict the state or breake the blessed peace of our flowrishing Church neither doe know any such here God that knoweth the secrets of all hearts bearing me recorde seeing you so malitiouslie traduce this Honorable Vniversity as if it were an Anabaptisticall Seminary I doe challendge you or anie of your part to answer these two points First that there be * Vide Iohan Pappium Peace of Rome and many other bookes more materiall differences in points of religion and more grosse pointes of Chatharisme amōg Papists then among al the Schismatiques or Separists Secondly that the Church of Englande never had any so Puritannical as to iudge themselues celestiall men terrestriall Angels excelling surmounting transcending in perfection fulling the law nay more then the law Mr LEECH Of this point said I I may speake as S. Iohn speaketh to the seauen churches of Asia cōcluding euer the burthē of his admonitiō which a pathetical Epiphonema in the reprehension Let him that hath an eare to heare heare what the spirit saith to the churches And may not I apply let him that hath not only an eare to heare but a soule to saue by the eares hearing heare what the coelestial Oracle heauēly spirit Catholike Church iointly speak deliuer concerning Evangelicall Counsells ANSVVER Remember not only what S. Iohn endeth his epistle with but also what he sealeth vp his whole revelatiō with I a Apoc. 22.19 protest vnto euerie man that heareth the Words of the prophecie of this book If any māshal adde vnto these things God shall adde vnto him the plagues that are written in this booke For that sweet aphorisme and acclamation of everie of S. Iohns Epistles cited by you I acknowledge the power and divine spirit speaking in it For what is recorded of Hercules Gallicus that his speeches tyed the eares of his hearers to his tongue is more true by many degrees concerning God and therefore it is not onlie Davids incitation * Ps 34.9 O come and see and taste how good the Lord is but b Ps 34.12 Apoc. 1. O come hither chidren and harken I will teach you the feare of the Lord. And S. Iohns proclamation in the first of the Apocalyps Blessed are they that read and they that heare and they that keepe the words of this booke therfore let

Pez p. 552. Pezelius noteth they make thē Perfectiores leges Evangelicas which be but Enarrationes decalogi But to your supposition how vmbragious soeuer you seeme to be it is manifest you never vnderstood the state of the question Counsells are precepts I can easily bring a Iurie of Fathers to proue it not such as you impanelled to condemne your selfe Precepts I say they be to particular men who exceed others in gifts of grace And because much shall bee required of him that hath much giuen him therefore a Counsell as a praecept doth oblige not all in generall but him that is particularly furnished by God for such a purpose and service and therefore he that hath the gift of chastity other circumstances concurring is bound sub poena not to marry S. Hierom doth only speake of generall precepts and the place in Gregory is oft cited and as oft answered but not quoted at all But I say the same of him Greg. mor. l. 26. cap. 25. as of Hierome for Gregory is most plaine in the point in the 25 Chapt. of the 26 booke of Moralls his words be specialis iussio and specialia praecepta and specialiter imperatur and the distinction of generale praeceptum speciale praeceptum is so often repeated about the midst of that Chapter as nothing can be more plain So that Ierome and Gregory come over to vs for they meane speciall precepts not generall And certainely as S. Basil speaketh if virginity were a generall command to all it would exclude marriage but being not some may marry some liue chast all doe well Mr LEECH This I demanded but hee then passed it ouer with silence and therefore I expect his answere now how hee cā avoid this consequence which followeth vpon his own learning ANSVVER Eccles 12. The words of the wise are like Goads like nailes fastened by the masters of the assemblies saith Salomon His words might haue satisfied you if truth and reason would haue yeelded you satisfaction but a false opinion once grounded is like poison fully setled or like Deianiraes shirt it wil hardly be shaken of without plucking the skinne with it Mr LEECH As for sending me vp to London to answere the point there my reply was that for my part I was ready to answere vnto the point and to iustify the doctrine either there or else where in what consistory soever in the kingdome Only for your own credit sake and place said I which you supply I wish that it would please you to bee better advised at least to conferre with some other doctors who heard the sermon as well as your selfe and maturely to deliberate whether there be scandalum datum or acceptum a scandall on my part iustly giuen or on your part vniustly taken and whether your exception against my doctrine will beare waight or no being poysed in an indifferent ballance of equity before you resolue vpon this precipitation Otherwaies you shall bewray great want of sound iudgement in opinion and disclose much oversight in discretion ANSVVER o Theod. in Plut. Pericl Pericles had that skill in wrastling that though he receiued a fall yet hee would perswade the wrastler that cast him and others that beheld him that he cōquered I know no such subtelty in you as you would haue your hearers to beleeue but sure I am you did not braue it so with the Doctor as you here relate In all these proceedings of D. Hutton you haue iniured him much but your selfe more you know what slayeth the soule and therefore ought to forbeare al insulting tearmes iniust imputations circumstantiall disparadgments false relations and to regard age and authority learning piety so are you bound by feare and conscience What other Doctors iudged concerning your sermon you knowe by those reverend Divines and governors among vs when you were censured about it and therefore it is an idle question whether you gaue or tooke the offence The doctrine you know was Papisticall therefore you ought not to haue obtruded such a point in the pulpit Christs speech is generall p ● Mat. 18.6 whosoeuer shall offend one of these little ones that beleeue in me it were better for him that a milstone were hanged about his neck and that hee were drowned in the depth of the sea Your weapons were made on the Philistims forges Aug. your arguments were neither de veritate nor pro veritate Neither truth of matter nor sobriety of speech had place in your tempestuous conceit disiointed sermon You were not so willing to answere at London nor so peremptory to accuse the Doctor for want of iudgement in opinion or ouersight in discretion Mr LEECH And farther I assure you call me whether you will into questiō I shall discharge my selfe with sufficient credit when you shall gaine little by questioning my doctrine or molesting me causelesly ANSVVER You wel ad the word farther for you never spake so farre as this you haue a strange gift of amplification you scarse spake the tēth part of that which you haue here so enlarged as is confirm'd and averred by wise honest witnesses that heard it This large discourse was not extant then You neither durst nor could babble so much in so short a time you durst not for your distraction that night observed by many was very much it shewd that then you had not altogether dispassioned your conscience but that there was some sparke which did feare and follow you observed by her owne eie though no other eie should perceiue her chased by her own foot though nothing either in heauen or earth should pursue her Relation tells me there was some ouerture of compunction then in you your looks gestures words gaue testimony that you durst not speake so peremptorily And that you could not it is plaine scarse three questions and answers passing between you and those rather commanding your Coppy then disputing the question Mr LEECH Here the kitchin-conference brake vp only in the loose he required a copy of that doctrine of Counsells delivered by me out of S. Gregory To this I voluntarily condescended adding these words to intimate my confident resolution Sir For the doctrine I will request no fauor at your hands only I hope that you will doe me iustice if not assure your selfe I shall right my selfe else where This was the last period of our conference at that time and so wee parted supper calling vs both away ANSVVERE So much for your saucy vnsauory kitchin-stuffe You need not againe to insist vpon the place a circūstance in that businesse lest materiall And the advantage of malice and hatred hence is very small if duly considered Therefore breefly to enforme the Christian indifferent Reader Concerning that aspertion of disgrace you call the kitchin conference thus it was as I haue receiued it from the mouthes vnder the hands of those it concerneth Presently vpon your sermon you were sent for because of the generall

LEECH To these I might adde Wickliffe against the order of begging friers where he stileth them Christ his high Counsells Likewise Luther in the 30. article of his assertions Iudicious and learned Hooker in his Church Politie and the Apologie in defence of him in the Chapter of satisfaction D. Barlow The Bishop of Rochester and elect of Lincolne in his sermon preached at Court concerning the authority of Bishops the 4. page before the ende ANSVVER It is not vnfitly said by you I might adde for never was so small a booke so stuft with additions and detractions as this is adding to divers Authors detracting from divers persons Heresie is a Bastardy it seldome knoweth the true Father that names many Fathers falsly this vrgeth many fainedly and indeed hath no lawful Father but that outlawried pervagus terrae in the first of Iob Iob. 1. Gen. 4. it selfe being vagus terrae as Cain was in the 4. of Genes For those that here you ad to your Catalogue of Authors and Authorisers First Wickliffe must be heard in his owne maner of speech Wick against begging Friers Chap. 34. Luther yet he needs no interpreter In the 34 Chapter against begging Friers these be his words Many blind fooles binden them to the high Counsells of Christ that cannot keepe the least commandement but see hypocrisie of them sith each Counsell of Christ is commandement for some time and some circumstances how binden they them to more then the commandements Not by the Counsels for they been commandements but they fainen this to draw yong children into their rotten habit and other fooles that knowen not the perfection of Christs order Now you haue heard wickliffe himselfe beleeue him and reade no reporters of his fragments Next Luther fauoureth your cause verie little In the place you cite him hee saith that there is but one Counsaile Evangelicall if you stande to him there avowing only the Counsell of Virginity you must let Poverty go begge and obedience go loose But Luther vpon better consideration doth vtterly discharge all Coūsails Luther de votis Monasticis Tom. 2. fol. 300. in his book de votis Monasticis Tom. 2. fol. 30. a. Mr Hooker is before interpreted and I hope will giue satisfaction though you quote him falsely in his Chapter of Satisfaction the place being found in the Article of superogation His Apologist is also made plaine in the same place The Bishop of Rochester now of Lincolne then the Austin of Hippo nowe the Ambrose of Millaine doth no way yeelde you suffrage in his powerfull sermon cōcerning the Antiquity Superiority of Bishops shewing out of Clemens Alexandrinus that the Apostles manured the Church with a double tillage 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If saith hee any thinke that this maketh way to Popish traditions vnwritten verities it is no other then S. Paules distinction of praeceptum and Consilium c. His reverend wisdome most accute iudgement alleaging the word out of a vulgar translation meaneth by the name Consilium those things which S. Paul 1. Cor. 11.34 calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 things vnwrittē which the Apostles did or spake as the times occasioned and the holy Ghost directed further then this there is nothing in that place or sermon giving warrant to your opinion of iustifying popish monkish Counsells and how great his dislike is to any such position his learned speech at Lambeth which like a thunderbolt strooke you dumbe doth testifie to all So that all these witnesses refuse you Luther wickliffe Hooker D. Covell and this most reverend Prelat not vouchsafing your doctrine coūtenance or maintenance Mr LEECH These and many more of their ranke I might adde if I could be perswaded that the Fathers needed their sons suffrages And yet certaine I am Sonnes in this point or such like For no otherways did I meane that the sons stande in neede of their fathers testimonies Or were it not rather so that all these being men of eminent note in our Church are rather relatores antiquae fidei quàm authores novae doctrinae relators of the ancient faith of the Church to their credit and honor in that respect he it spoken rather then authors and coyners of any new doctrine And therfore passing them and for this time sparing them not to strike a haires breadth from my former groūds Leo Epist 17. 94. my maine conclusion is this maneant termini patrum intráque fines proprios se quisque contineat sufficiant limites quos sanctorum patrum providentissima decreta posuerunt let the bounds of ancient church abide and let every man keepe himselfe within due bounds limits let the meetes which the Fathers most prouident decrees haue set content vs. And the reason is excellently rendred by S. Bernard Epist 77. ad Hugonem de S. Victore viz quantò viciniores erant adventui salvatoris tantò mysterium salutis pleniùs praeceperunt the neerer the Fathers were to Christ his incarnation the more cleerely and fully received they the mysterie of salvation ANSVVER It is true the Orthodoxall Fathers need not the suffrages of their sonnes and yet Bellarmine denieth it and is so vnnaturall to the Fathers as that he maketh them to need the suffrage of the Pope Bellar. de Pōt l. 2. c. 27. § Respon istos for when hee is pressed by Nilus to follow in the question of the Primacy the opinion of the Fathers he professeth that the Pope hath no Fathers in the Church for they are all his sons So by this Gregory the great shall stand in need of Burgesies testimony Cā you endure this that Gregory whose learning holinesse eloquence c. was so eminent he that you call Patron though he never bestowed so much as opinion vpon you shall he need the testimony of Mounsieur Burghesi whom your owne confesse to be none of the best Popes and sure not of the best men But to the Fathers this I say we respect and honor them in generall and the present quotation of S. Bernard we dislike not For Patres quo saniores eo seniores quo iuniores eo ieiuniores but they being impostured as Papists professe to practise it in their Index expurgatorius that if the Fathers speak against any points now maintained by papists Ind. Expurg belg fol. 20. then the Index warneth thus Let vs excuse it or extenuat it or deny it by some devise or faine some other convenient sense whē it is opposed in disputation Our main conclusion hence is Patres quo Papis viciniores eo corruptiores Mr LEECH To these were my iudgement and opinion any Of Luther Calvin all their proper Disciples Qui non cōsentit Sāctorum Patrum expositionibus seipsum alienat ab omni sacerdo tali communione à Christi praesētia Eudoxius in Concil Chalced. I durst not otherwaies then subscribe with all humble submissiō to the censure of the Church fearing that censure of