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A68210 A Christian letter of certaine English protestants, vnfained fauourers of the present state of religion, authorised and professed in England: vnto that reverend and learned man, Mr R. Hoo requiring resolution in certaine matters of doctrine (which seeme to ouerthrow the foundation of Christian religion, and of the church among vs) expreslie contained in his fiue books of Ecclesiasticall pollicie. Willet, Andrew, 1562-1621, attributed name.; Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603, attributed name. 1599 (1599) STC 13721; ESTC S107562 38,506 52

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we_o not_o keep_v our_o robe_n pure_a and_o without_o spot_n until_o the_o come_n of_o christ_n and_o so_o be_v justify_v more_o and_o more_o by_o our_o work_n as_o the_o popish_a cannon_n teach_v but_o pray_v by_o christ_n commandment_n every_o day_n forgive_v we_o our_o trespass_n the_o church_n of_o england_n believe_v predestination_n that_o praedestinatione_fw-la predestination_n unto_o life_n be_v the_o eternal_a purpose_n of_o god_n whereby_o before_o the_o foundation_n of_o the_o world_n be_v lay_v he_o constant_o decree_v by_o his_o counsel_n unto_o we_o unknowen_a to_o deliver_v from_o the_o curse_n &_o destruction_n they_o who_o he_o choose_v in_o christ_n out_o of_o mankind_n &_o as_o vessel_n make_v unto_o honour_n through_o christ_n to_o bring_v they_o to_o eternal_a salvation_n whereupon_o they_o who_o be_v endow_v with_o so_o excellent_a benefit_n of_o god_n be_v call_v according_a to_o his_o purpose_n and_o that_o by_o his_o spirit_n work_v in_o a_o fit_a time_n but_o you_o mai._n hoo._n seem_v to_o we_o to_o affirm_v contrary_a when_o you_o say_v 104._o if_o any_o man_n doubt_v how_o god_n shall_v accept_v such_o prayer_n in_o case_n they_o be_v opposite_a to_o his_o will_n or_o not_o grant_v they_o if_o they_o be_v according_a to_o that_o himself_o will_v our_o answer_n be_v that_o such_o suit_n god_n accept_v in_o that_o they_o be_v conformable_a to_o his_o general_a inclination_n which_o be_v that_o all_o man_n may_v be_v save_v yet_o always_o he_o grant_v they_o not_o for_o so_o much_o as_o there_o be_v in_o god_n a_o more_o private_a occasion_v will_n which_o determine_v the_o contrary_a here_o we_o beg_v your_o aid_n to_o make_v manifest_a unto_o we_o how_o god_n eternal_o predestinate_v by_o a_o constant_a decree_n they_o who_o he_o call_v and_o save_v as_o our_o church_n profess_v and_o yet_o have_v as_o you_o say_v a_o general_a inclination_n that_o all_o man_n may_v be_v save_v whether_o he_o foresee_v not_o something_o that_o occasion_v his_o will_n otherwise_o so_o that_o he_o elect_v not_o all_o but_o only_o they_o who_o he_o call_v and_o save_v or_o that_o of_o his_o general_a inclination_n he_o elect_v all_o man_n but_o some_o more_o private_o occasion_v he_o in_o time_n to_o alter_v his_o will_n and_o to_o refuse_v they_o or_o that_o some_o man_n give_v god_n occasion_n that_o he_o save_v they_o though_o he_o never_o decree_v it_o before_o the_o foundation_n of_o the_o world_n what_o mean_v the_o bless_a apostle_n where_o he_o say_v 3●_n who_o he_o predestinate_v they_o also_o he_o call_v and_o who_o he_o call_v they_o also_o he_o justify_v etc._n etc._n be_v this_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o a_o constant_a decree_n as_o we_o say_v or_o of_o a_o inclination_n he_o say_v 1●_n god_n work_v all_o thing_n after_o the_o counsel_n of_o his_o own_o will_n be_v this_o to_o be_v understand_v that_o upon_o occasion_n sometime_o he_o either_o alter_v his_o counsel_n or_o decree_v something_o which_o he_o have_v not_o think_v upon_o before_o saint_n james_n say_v that_o 1●_n in_o god_n there_o be_v no_o variableness_n nor_o shadow_n of_o turn_v be_v not_o this_o more_o than_o a_o variableness_n or_o shadow_n of_o turn_v to_o incline_v one_o way_n and_o upon_o occasion_n to_o decree_v another_o do_v not_o these_o word_n of_o you_o give_v some_o place_n unto_o chance_n and_o fortune_n do_v they_o not_o make_v god_n as_o a_o man_n not_o of_o a_o all-sufficient_a knowledge_n wisdom_n and_o counsel_n but_o inclinable_a some_o one_o way_n till_o by_o occasion_n he_o find_v a_o more_o better_a way_n where_o be_v that_o god_n you_o speak_v of_o in_o your_o 5●_n first_o book_n of_o who_o and_o through_o who_o and_o for_o who_o be_v all_o thing_n and_o where_o be_v that_o law_n by_o which_o he_o work_v which_o you_o there_o call_v eternal_a and_o therefore_o can_v have_v no_o show_n or_o colour_n of_o mutability_n have_v we_o not_o cause_n to_o fear_v that_o the_o witty_a schoolman_n have_v seduce_v you_o and_o by_o their_o conceit_a distinction_n make_v you_o forget_v that_o you_o be_v neither_o able_a nor_o worthy_a to_o open_v and_o look_v into_o the_o book_n of_o god_n law_n by_o which_o he_o guide_v the_o world_n and_o yet_o you_o will_v say_v there_o be_v in_o god_n a_o occasion_v will_n good_a mai._n hoo._n help_v we_o here_o and_o show_v we_o how_o we_o may_v think_v that_o you_o incline_v not_o to_o the_o error_n of_o popery_n touch_v work_n forseen_v and_o that_o you_o favour_v our_o church_n belief_n the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v confess_v rome_n ecclesia_fw-la that_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n be_v a_o company_n of_o faithful_a people_n among_o who_o the_o pure_a word_n of_o god_n be_v preach_v &_o the_o sacrament_n right_o administer_v according_a to_o christ_n institution_n etc._n etc._n and_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v err_v not_o only_o in_o manner_n &_o ceremony_n but_o also_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n which_o by_o the_o reverend_a father_n of_o our_o church_n be_v expound_v thus_o 99_o without_o christ_n the_o church_n be_v no_o church_n neither_o have_v any_o right_a or_o claim_v without_o his_o promise_n nor_o any_o promise_n without_o his_o word_n 366._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v as_o it_o be_v now_o utterlie_o void_a of_o god_n word_n be_v as_o a_o lantern_n without_o light_n 1581._o we_o have_v depart_v from_o that_o church_n which_o they_o have_v make_v a_o den_n of_o thief_n and_o in_o which_o they_o have_v leave_v nothing_o sound_a or_o like_v to_o a_o church_n &_o which_o themselves_o do_v confess_v to_o have_v err_v in_o many_o thing_n even_o as_o lot_n in_o old_a time_n out_o of_o sodom_n or_o abraham_n out_o of_o chaldea_n etc._n etc._n 57_o the_o general_a error_n and_o defection_n of_o the_o popish_a synagogue_n from_o christ_n his_o true_a church_n foreshow_v in_o the_o scripture_n be_v now_o manifest_a to_o the_o world_n by_o dissension_n from_o christ_n and_o his_o holy_a apostle_n doctrine_n and_o from_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n by_o the_o apostle_n found_v and_o for_o this_o cause_n they_o call_v the_o heresy_n of_o that_o romish_a church_n apostasia_fw-la romanensium_fw-la ab_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la the_o princi_fw-la apostasy_n of_o the_o romish_a rabble_n from_o the_o church_n and_o they_o call_v the_o pope_n apostatam_fw-la antichristum_n a_o apostata_fw-la antichrist_n and_o bind_v up_o in_o one_o bundle_n 178._o idolater_n superstitious_a person_n papist_n and_o atheist_n constant_o affirm_v that_o 272_o among_o english_a christian_n no_o other_o thing_n be_v mean_v by_o the_o name_n of_o papist_n than_o heretic_n and_o traitor_n antichristian_o and_o apostate_n enemy_n to_o god_n their_o prince_n and_o their_o country_n now_o we_o find_v in_o you_o these_o peremptory_a affirmation_n 130._o with_o rome_n we_o dare_v not_o communicate_v concern_v sundry_a her_o gross_a &_o grievous_a abomination_n yet_o touch_v those_o main_a part_n of_o christian_n truth_n wherein_o they_o constant_o still_o persist_v we_o glad_o acknowledge_v they_o to_o be_v of_o the_o family_n of_o jesus_n christ._n and_o a_o little_a before_o we_o hope_v that_o to_o reform_v ourselves_o if_o at_o any_o time_n we_o have_v do_v amiss_o be_v not_o to_o sever_v ourselves_o from_o the_o church_n we_o be_v of_o before_o in_o the_o church_n we_o be_v and_o we_o be_v so_o still_o and_o in_o another_o place_n you_o will_v have_v man_n 188._o to_o acknowledge_v that_o it_o be_v due_a to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v hold_v &_o repute_v a_o part_n of_o the_o house_n of_o god_n and_o a_o limb_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n of_o christ._n and_o your_o principal_a reason_n seem_v to_o be_v because_o you_o say_v 186._o that_o which_o separate_v utterlie_o that_o which_o cut_v off_o clean_o from_o the_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n be_v plain_a apostasy_n direct_v denial_n utter_a rejection_n of_o the_o whole_a christian_n faith_n as_o far_o as_o the_o son_n be_v profess_o different_a from_o infidelity_n here_o you_o seem_v unto_o we_o to_o come_v forth_o as_o a_o other_o elias_n to_o bring_v again_o the_o people_n unto_o the_o god_n of_o their_o father_n they_o say_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v err_v not_o only_o in_o manner_n but_o also_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n you_o you_o call_v they_o back_o and_o say_v sundry_a gross_a and_o grievous_a abomination_n they_o say_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n as_o it_o be_v now_o be_v utterlie_o void_a of_o god_n word_n as_o a_o lantern_n without_o light_n and_o that_o it_o be_v a_o den_n of_o thief_n in_o which_o they_o have_v leave_v nothing_o sound_a or_o like_o a_o church_n but_o be_v like_o sodom_n etc._n etc._n you_o call_v they_o back_o and_o say_v that_o they_o have_v main_n part_n of_o christian_n truth_n wherein_o they_o constant_o
to_o etc._n holy_a scripture_n to_o use_v plain_a good_a and_o sensible_a term_n to_o note_v out_o the_o difference_n of_o a_o minister_n estate_n from_o other_o man_n and_o you_o seem_v to_o carry_v another_o kind_n of_o stile_n more_o befit_v the_o glory_n of_o the_o romish_a character_n than_o the_o simplicity_n of_o our_o ministry_n our_o church_n say_v they_o must_v be_v call_v that_o preach_v publicklie_o you_o say_v a_o catechist_n or_o who_o we_o find_v in_o 6._o ancient_a time_n to_o have_v be_v such_o as_o clemens_n and_o origine_fw-la in_o alexandria_n as_o to_o who_o the_o people_n come_v to_o hear_v the_o preach_n of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v none_o of_o the_o order_n of_o the_o clergy_n meaning_n as_o we_o think_v without_o this_o ministerial_a power_n we_o pray_v you_o they_o to_o show_v we_o whether_o you_o mean_v by_o ministerial_a power_n clergy_n or_o order_n that_o which_o our_o church_n mean_v by_o call_v if_o you_o do_v than_o we_o see_v not_o how_o you_o and_o they_o agree_v that_o you_o allow_v a_o catechist_n which_o be_v a_o office_n to_o preach_v the_o word_n which_o be_v not_o of_o the_o ecclesiastical_a order_n and_o as_o we_o say_v have_v no_o call_n thereunto_o and_o our_o church_n say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a etc._n etc._n again_o our_o church_n say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n without_o that_o call_n and_o that_o god_n and_o well_o order_v church_n forbid_v woman_n to_o baptize_v you_o as_o we_o think_v contrary_a to_o our_o church_n maintain_v such_o church_n as_o allow_v the_o private_a baptism_n by_o woman_n in_o case_n of_o necessity_n and_o you_o say_v diverse_a reform_a church_n allow_v and_o defend_v such_o baptism_n here_o we_o entreat_v you_o to_o declare_v the_o agreement_n of_o these_o say_n and_o whether_o because_o you_o say_v that_o the_o special_a order_n you_o speak_v of_o be_v consecrate_v unto_o the_o service_n of_o the_o high_a in_o thing_n wherewith_o other_o may_v not_o meddle_v your_o meaning_n be_v that_o lie_v people_n in_o case_n of_o necessity_n may_v meddle_v with_o those_o thing_n which_o our_o church_n say_v be_v not_o lawful_a without_o call_v or_o that_o because_o you_o will_v have_v the_o ministerial_a power_n to_o be_v a_o mark_n and_o character_n you_o give_v liberty_n to_o preach_v &_o baptise_v as_o to_o certain_a service_n and_o that_o the_o character_n and_o indelible_a order_n have_v nothing_o to_o itself_o peculiar_a but_o the_o make_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n and_o offer_v he_o up_o in_o sacrifice_n to_o his_o father_n that_o the_o laity_n woman_n and_o catechist_n may_v not_o meddle_v with_o that_o and_o here_o we_o desire_v to_o understande_v whence_o you_o fett_v that_o worthy_a distinction_n the_o ignorance_n whereof_o beguile_v many_o and_o that_o you_o will_v declare_v the_o same_o by_o holy_a scripture_n &_o bring_v we_o one_o pregnant_a proof_n to_o show_v the_o error_n of_o our_o church_n in_o affirm_v preach_v and_o minister_a without_o call_v to_o be_v unlawful_a or_o else_o declare_v the_o exception_n either_o by_o scripture_n or_o by_o some_o order_n or_o interpretation_n publish_v by_o our_o church_n or_o some_o of_o our_o reverend_a father_n which_o also_o may_v have_v their_o harmony_n with_o the_o say_n of_o the_o reverend_a father_n by_o we_o before_o rehearse_v and_o last_o whether_o that_o you_o in_o these_o three_o place_n be_v not_o contrary_a to_o yourself_o or_o that_o you_o make_v not_o a_o delude_a proposition_n which_o contain_v a_o general_a prohibition_n without_o limitation_n which_o yet_o be_v not_o general_a but_o must_v have_v exception_n and_o if_o you_o place_v reader_n as_o distinct_a from_o clergy_n what_o may_v we_o think_v you_o esteem_v of_o our_o read_a minister_n be_v they_o no_o clergy_n man_n it_o be_v a_o article_n of_o our_o faith_n sacrament_n that_o sacramentis_fw-la the_o sacrament_n institute_v of_o christ_n be_v not_o only_a mark_n of_o christian_n profession_n but_o rather_o certain_a testimony_n and_o effectual_a sign_n of_o grace_n and_o of_o the_o good_a will_n of_o god_n towards_o we_o by_o which_o he_o do_v work_v invisiblie_o in_o we_o and_o do_v not_o only_o stir_v up_o but_o also_o confirm_v our_o faith_n towards_o himself_o which_o by_o the_o reverend_a father_n of_o our_o church_n be_v interpret_v thus_o 1._o sacrament_n be_v visible_a word_n seal_n of_o righteousness_n and_o token_n of_o grace_n 204._o the_o soul_n of_o man_n &_o not_o the_o creature_n of_o bread_n or_o water_n receive_v the_o grace_n of_o god_n etc._n etc._n the_o grace_n of_o god_n be_v not_o in_o the_o visible_a sign_n but_o in_o the_o soul_n 134._o the_o substance_n of_o all_o sacrament_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o s_n to_o paul_n call_v verbum_fw-la reconciliationis_fw-la the_o word_n of_o atonement_n this_o word_n be_v the_o instrument_n of_o remission_n of_o sin_n the_o sacrament_n be_v the_o seal_v affix_v unto_o the_o same_o the_o priest_n be_v the_o mean_a and_o speak_v of_o all_o the_o faithful_a to_o be_v one_o body_n all_o endue_v with_o one_o spirit_n they_o further_o say_v 36._o this_o marvellous_a conjunction_n and_o incorporation_n be_v first_o begin_v and_o wrought_v by_o faith_n etc._n etc._n afterward_o the_o same_o corporation_n be_v assure_v unto_o we_o and_o increase_v in_o our_o baptism_n etc._n etc._n and_o for_o that_o we_o be_v very_o unperfect_a of_o ourselves_o and_o therefore_o must_v daily_o proceed_v forward_o that_o we_o may_v grow_v unto_o a_o perfect_a man_n in_o christ_n therefore_o have_v god_n appoint_v that_o the_o same_o incorporation_n shall_v be_v often_o renew_v and_o confirm_v in_o we_o by_o the_o use_n of_o the_o holy_a mystery_n wherein_o must_v be_v consider_v that_o the_o say_v holy_a mystery_n do_v not_o begin_v but_o rather_o continue_v &_o confirm_v this_o incorporation_n here_o we_o demand_v how_o it_o may_v appear_v unto_o we_o that_o you_o broach_v not_o a_o new_a doctrine_n diverse_a and_o contrary_a to_o our_o belief_n in_o england_n when_o you_o say_v that_o 126._o the_o sacrament_n chief_a force_n and_o virtue_n consist_v in_o this_o that_o they_o be_v heavenly_a ceremony_n which_o god_n have_v sanctify_v and_o ordain_v to_o be_v administer_v in_o his_o church_n first_o as_o mark_n to_o know_v when_o god_n do_v impart_v the_o vital_a or_o save_a grace_n of_o christ_n unto_o all_o that_o be_v capable_a thereof_o and_o secondlie_o as_o mean_n conditional_a which_o god_n require_v in_o they_o unto_o who_o he_o impart_v grace_n and_o in_o another_o place_n 133._o it_o be_v a_o branch_n of_o belief_n that_o sacrament_n be_v in_o their_o place_n no_o less_o require_v than_o belief_n itself_o for_o when_o our_o lord_n &_o saviour_n promise_v eternal_a life_n be_v it_o any_o otherwise_o then_o as_o he_o promise_v restitution_n of_o health_n unto_o naaman_n the_o sirian_a namely_o with_o this_o condition_n wash_v and_o be_v clean_o and_o in_o another_o place_n you_o say_v that_o 105._o both_o the_o worde_n and_o sacrament_n have_v generative_a force_n and_o virtue_n by_o which_o your_o word_n we_o be_v great_o amaze_v that_o our_o church_n have_v leave_v out_o in_o her_o creed_n and_o the_o reverend_a father_n have_v not_o teach_v we_o that_o which_o be_v as_o you_o say_v the_o chief_a force_n and_o virtue_n of_o the_o sacrament_n where_o find_v you_o that_o god_n ordain_v the_o sacrament_n to_o tell_v we_o when_o god_n give_v grace_n and_o that_o they_o be_v mean_n conditional_a and_o as_o necessary_a as_o faith_n teach_v we_o we_o pray_v you_o by_o holy_a scripture_n these_o three_o chief_a virtue_n of_o the_o sacrament_n the_o further_a that_o they_o say_v as_o we_o gather_v be_v to_o make_v they_o seal_v of_o assurance_n by_o which_o the_o spirit_n work_v invisiblie_o to_o strengthen_v our_o faith_n and_o they_o seem_v to_o square_v their_o faith_n by_o holy_a scripture_n which_o propound_v 23._o abraham_n to_o be_v a_o example_n of_o the_o true_a way_n of_o justify_v &_o a_o pattern_n to_o all_o the_o child_n of_o god_n namely_o 11._o that_o he_o be_v first_o justify_v by_o faith_n and_o after_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n as_o a_o sign_n to_o be_v a_o seal_n of_o the_o righteousness_n of_o his_o faith_n show_v therefore_o whether_o we_o ought_v not_o to_o go_v further_o than_o our_o church_n or_o holy_a scripture_n unless_o we_o will_v leave_v out_o the_o chief_a virtue_n of_o the_o sacrament_n moreover_o they_o say_v the_o grace_n of_o god_n be_v not_o in_o the_o visible_a sign_n you_o say_v they_o be_v mean_n condicionall_a they_o say_v that_o grace_n which_o they_o call_v this_o marvellous_a conjunction_n and_o incorporation_n be_v first_o begin_v and_o wrought_v by_o faith_n and_o afterward_o be_v assure_v and_o increase_v by_o the_o sacrament_n you_o say_v
the_o sacrament_n have_v the_o generative_a force_n and_o virtue_n as_o well_o as_o the_o word_n they_o say_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o all_o sacrament_n be_v the_o word_n etc._n etc._n and_o that_o the_o sacrament_n be_v the_o seal_v affix_v to_o the_o same_o which_o be_v borrow_v from_o the_o apostle_n out_o of_o the_o former_a recite_v place_n rom._n 4._o do_v argue_v that_o the_o necessity_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v not_o comparable_a to_o that_o of_o faith_n for_o by_o this_o he_o prove_v abraham_n to_o be_v justify_v by_o faith_n without_o work_n because_o he_o first_o be_v justify_v by_o faith_n before_o he_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n and_o that_o the_o sacrament_n be_v but_o a_o sign_n and_o seal_n of_o his_o faith_n so_o that_o he_o exclude_v the_o sacrament_n as_o it_o be_v a_o work_n and_o as_o you_o call_v it_o 128._o a_o moral_a instrument_n of_o salvation_n from_o all_o copertenership_n with_o faith_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o justification_n you_o make_v it_o a_o mean_n condicionall_a and_o no_o less_o require_v than_o faith_n itself_o and_o of_o as_o absolute_a necessity_n as_o that_o to_o naaman_n wash_v and_o be_v clean_o these_o thing_n good_a mai._n hoo._n we_o can_v not_o reconcile_v and_o therefore_o we_o be_v suitor_n unto_o you_o to_o aid_v we_o in_o the_o same_o and_o to_o make_v your_o mind_n to_o appear_v not_o to_o overturn_v the_o faith_n of_o our_o church_n and_o herein_o to_o tell_v we_o where_o you_o find_v that_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n be_v tie_v to_o any_o time_n as_o namely_o the_o time_n of_o the_o sacrament_n or_o whether_o the_o sacrament_n teach_v we_o some_o other_o time_n and_o whether_o the_o condition_n of_o sacrament_n make_v not_o for_o the_o additament_n of_o work_n unto_o faith_n in_o that_o which_o the_o english_a church_n hold_v to_o be_v only_o &_o proper_o of_o faith_n and_o last_o whether_o such_o speech_n be_v not_o meerelie_o popish_a &_o accurse_a mixture_n of_o humane_a folly_n give_v a_o further_a grace_n to_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n than_o god_n have_v ordain_v and_o herein_o explain_v unto_o we_o whether_o a_o man_n die_v without_o faith_n &_o yet_o receave_v the_o sacrament_n can_v be_v save_v or_o that_o a_o man_n have_v faith_n &_o never_o any_o sacrament_n may_v not_o be_v save_v or_o whether_o any_o can_v be_v save_v if_o the_o condition_n of_o salvation_n be_v the_o upright_o and_o perfect_a performance_n of_o all_o moral_a duty_n which_o god_n require_v express_o in_o his_o word_n the_o church_n of_o england_n affirm_v institution_n that_o divinarum_fw-la by_o the_o malice_n of_o wicked_a man_n which_o be_v over_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n the_o effect_n of_o the_o thing_n ordain_v by_o christ_n be_v not_o take_v away_o or_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n gift_n diminish_v as_o touch_v they_o which_o receive_v by_o faith_n and_o orderly_o the_o thing_n offer_v unto_o they_o which_o for_o the_o institution_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o promise_n be_v effectual_a although_o they_o be_v administer_v by_o evil_a man_n whereupon_o the_o reverend_a father_n define_v a_o sacrament_n to_o be_v 1._o a_o reverend_a and_o holy_a mystery_n ordain_v of_o god_n wherein_o he_o by_o his_o holy_a word_n and_o promise_n do_v both_o stir_n up_o &_o practice_v the_o faith_n of_o his_o people_n and_o by_o the_o operation_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n increase_v his_o grace_n in_o they_o etc._n etc._n and_o of_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o church_n they_o say_v 34_o this_o be_v the_o very_a dungeon_n of_o incertainty_n the_o heart_n of_o man_n be_v unsearchable_a if_o we_o stay_v upon_o the_o intention_n of_o a_o mortal_a man_n we_o may_v stand_v in_o doubt_n of_o our_o own_o baptism_n you_o seem_v to_o speak_v otherwise_o where_o you_o say_v 129._o we_o must_v note_v that_o in_o as_o much_o as_o sacrament_n be_v action_n religious_a and_o mystical_a which_o nature_n they_o have_v not_o unless_o they_o proceed_v from_o a_o serious_a meaning_n and_o what_o every_o man_n private_a mind_n be_v as_o we_o can_v not_o know_v so_o neither_o be_v we_o bind_v to_o examine_v therefore_o always_o in_o these_o case_n the_o know_v intent_n of_o the_o church_n general_o do_v suffice_v and_o where_o the_o contrary_a be_v not_o manifest_a we_o must_v presume_v that_o he_o which_o outward_o do_v the_o work_n have_v inwardlie_o the_o purpose_n of_o the_o church_n of_o god_n here_o we_o desire_v to_o be_v instruct_v how_o these_o two_o opinion_n can_v stand_v together_o the_o one_o which_o say_v the_o sacrament_n be_v effectual_a through_o the_o institution_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o promise_n the_o other_o which_o ty_v it_o to_o the_o good_a meaning_n of_o the_o priest_n or_o of_o the_o church_n again_o the_o one_o say_v the_o intention_n of_o the_o church_n be_v the_o very_a dungeon_n of_o incertainty_n to_o make_v we_o doubt_v of_o our_o baptism_n the_o other_o that_o the_o sacrament_n have_v not_o the_o nature_n to_o be_v religious_a and_o mystical_a without_o a_o serious_a meaning_n that_o be_v the_o intent_n of_o the_o church_n these_o thing_n we_o pray_v you_o to_o reconcile_v and_o therewithal_o to_o show_v we_o how_o the_o intent_n of_o the_o church_n can_v give_v they_o their_o nature_n to_o be_v action_n religious_a &_o mystical_a and_o yet_o our_o reverend_a father_n say_v they_o be_v holy_a mystery_n ordain_v of_o god_n resolve_v therefore_o whether_o the_o virtue_n of_o the_o sacrament_n depend_v upon_o the_o institution_n and_o promise_n of_o god_n or_o upon_o the_o good_a meaning_n of_o the_o priest_n or_o of_o the_o church_n or_o upon_o both_o and_o whether_o they_o can_v have_v the_o nature_n of_o religious_a action_n and_o mystical_a without_o the_o intent_n of_o the_o priest_n or_o of_o the_o church_n and_o so_o whether_o the_o church_n may_v ordain_v a_o mystery_n or_o that_o the_o mystery_n ordain_v of_o god_n have_v not_o their_o nature_n and_o form_n with_o the_o presuppose_a intent_n of_o the_o church_n whether_o god_n in_o ordain_v these_o mystery_n be_v holpen_v by_o the_o serious_a meaning_n of_o the_o church_n or_o do_v except_o that_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v mystery_n without_o the_o like_n and_o allow_v of_o the_o church_n by_o their_o good_a meaning_n and_o last_o whether_o your_o assertion_n be_v not_o mere_a popery_n a_o humane_a invention_n and_o a_o inducement_n unto_o that_o which_o be_v call_v fides_fw-la implicita_fw-la that_o it_o shall_v suffice_v a_o man_n to_o believe_v as_o the_o church_n believe_v etc._n etc._n and_o herewithal_o show_v we_o what_o comfort_n we_o can_v have_v in_o the_o use_n of_o the_o sacrament_n if_o they_o can_v not_o be_v action_n religious_a and_o mystical_a unless_o they_o proceed_v from_o the_o intent_n and_o purpose_n of_o the_o church_n be_v as_o our_o reverend_a father_n esteem_n the_o very_a dungeon_n of_o uncertainty_n the_o church_n of_o england_n profess_v baptism_n that_o baptism_n baptism_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o regeneration_n by_o which_o as_o by_o a_o instrument_n they_o which_o right_o receive_v baptism_n be_v ingraft_v into_o the_o church_n the_o promise_n of_o remission_n of_o sin_n and_o of_o our_o adoption_n to_o be_v the_o child_n of_o god_n by_o the_o holy_a spirit_n be_v visible_o seal_v our_o faith_n be_v confirm_v and_o by_o the_o force_n of_o the_o call_n upon_o the_o name_n of_o god_n grace_n be_v increase_v which_o the_o reverend_a father_n of_o our_o church_n do_v expound_v in_o this_o sense_n 150._o the_o child_n of_o the_o faithful_a be_v bear_v holy_a and_o notwithstanding_o by_o nature_n they_o be_v the_o child_n of_o anger_n yet_o by_o god_n free_a election_n they_o be_v pure_a &_o holy_a this_o be_v saint_n paul_n undoubted_a doctrine_n which_o notwithstanding_o he_o never_o despise_v the_o sacrament_n of_o christ._n and_o that_o 12._o a_o man_n may_v stand_v in_o the_o state_n of_o salvation_n &_o out_o of_o all_o danger_n of_o damnation_n before_o he_o be_v baptize_v and_o the_o contrary_a to_o this_o they_o call_v 12._o fearful_a doctrine_n injurious_a to_o thousand_o of_o poor_a infant_n &_o blasphemous_a against_o the_o bottomless_a mercy_n of_o a_o sweet_a and_o tender_a father_n who_o have_v say_v i_o will_v be_v thy_o god_n and_o thy_o child_n not_o add_v any_o condition_n of_o baptism_n if_o it_o can_v not_o be_v have_v as_o it_o ought_v and_o hereupon_o they_o affirm_v that_o sacrament_n make_v not_o the_o covenante_n but_o only_o seal_v they_o and_o that_o god_n have_v not_o thus_o enthral_v his_o grace_n that_o there_o be_v such_o necessity_n that_o either_o woman_n or_o all_o sort_n of_o person_n shall_v dispense_v the_o holy_a mystery_n to_o the_o end_n that_o no_o poor_a creature_n may_v be_v cast_v away_o for_o want_n of_o it_o nor_o teach_v his_o church_n in_o his_o word_n but_o quite_o contrary_a as_o we_o see_v by_o
tell_v abraham_n his_o covenant_n reach_v to_o his_o seed_n and_o by_o differ_v the_o seal_n of_o the_o same_o to_o wit_n circumcision_n to_o the_o eight_o day_n you_o master_n hoo._n speak_v to_o our_o understanding_n a_o far_o differ_v language_n namely_o 132._o predestination_n bring_v not_o to_o life_n without_o the_o grace_n of_o external_a vocation_n wherein_o our_o baptism_n be_v employ_v for_o as_o we_o be_v not_o natural_o man_n without_o birth_n so_o neither_o be_v we_o christian_n man_n in_o the_o eye_n of_o the_o church_n of_o god_n but_o by_o new_a birth_n nor_o according_a to_o the_o ordinary_a course_n of_o divine_a dispensation_n new_o bear_v but_o by_o that_o baptism_n which_o both_o declare_v and_o make_v we_o christian_n in_o which_o respect_n we_o hold_v it_o to_o be_v the_o door_n of_o our_o actual_a entrance_n into_o god_n house_n the_o first_o apparent_a beginning_n of_o life_n a_o seal_n perhaps_o to_o the_o grace_n of_o election_n before_o receive_v but_o to_o our_o sanctification_n here_o a_o step_n that_o have_v not_o any_o before_o it_o and_o again_o 146._o the_o fruit_n of_o baptism_n depend_v only_o upon_o the_o covenant_n which_o god_n have_v make_v that_o god_n by_o covenant_n require_v of_o the_o elder_a sort_n faith_n and_o baptism_n in_o child_n the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n alone_o and_o in_o another_o place_n 136._o we_o have_v for_o baptism_n no_o day_n set_v as_o the_o jew_n have_v for_o circumcision_n neither_o have_v we_o by_o the_o law_n of_o god_n but_o only_o by_o the_o church_n discretion_n a_o place_n thereunto_o appoint_v baptism_n therefore_o even_o in_o the_o meaning_n of_o the_o law_n of_o christ_n belong_v unto_o infant_n capable_a thereof_o from_o the_o very_a instant_n of_o their_o birth_n which_o if_o they_o have_v not_o howsoever_o rather_o than_o loose_v it_o by_o be_v put_v of_o because_o the_o time_n the_o place_n or_o some_o such_o like_a circumstance_n do_v not_o solemn_o enough_o concur_v the_o church_n as_o much_o as_o in_o she_o lie_v wilful_o cast_v away_o their_o soul_n here_o be_v we_o at_o our_o wit_n end_n not_o know_v what_o to_o believe_v for_o if_o our_o english_a confession_n be_v true_a that_o baptism_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o regeneration_n and_o visible_o seal_v our_o remission_n of_o sin_n and_o adoption_n and_o increase_v grace_n etc._n etc._n we_o know_v not_o what_o to_o make_v of_o that_o you_o say_v baptism_n to_o be_v the_o first_o apparent_a beginning_n of_o life_n a_o seal_n perhaps_o of_o the_o grace_n of_o election_n and_o that_o there_o be_v no_o step_n of_o sanctification_n before_o baptism_n and_o again_o if_o it_o be_v true_a as_o you_o say_v predestination_n bring_v not_o life_n without_o the_o grace_n of_o external_a vocation_n wherein_o baptism_n be_v employ_v what_o shall_v we_o think_v of_o that_o our_o reverend_a father_n say_v a_o man_n by_o god_n free_a election_n be_v holy_a and_o pure_a and_o that_o before_o baptism_n a_o man_n may_v stand_v in_o the_o state_n of_o salvation_n and_o if_o our_o church_n doctrine_n be_v true_a that_o baptism_n be_v a_o seal_n of_o remission_n of_o sin_n and_o that_o the_o sacrament_n make_v not_o the_o covenante_n but_o be_v seal_n of_o the_o covenante_n how_o can_v you_o be_v true_a that_o by_o covenant_n god_n require_v faith_n and_o baptism_n in_o the_o elder_a and_o baptism_n alone_o in_o child_n be_v baptism_n part_n of_o the_o covenant_n and_o more_o than_o a_o seal_n and_o see_v our_o reverend_a father_n affirm_v that_o god_n and_o well_o order_v church_n forbid_v baptism_n by_o woman_n and_o that_o god_n have_v not_o enthral_v his_o church_n to_o such_o urgent_a necessity_n and_o that_o such_o doctrine_n be_v fearful_a injurious_a and_o blasphemous_a and_o our_o sweet_a and_o tender_a father_n have_v say_v i_o will_v be_v thy_o god_n and_o thy_o child_n not_o add_v any_o condition_n of_o baptism_n if_o it_o can_v be_v have_v as_o it_o ought_v how_o can_v it_o be_v well_o in_o you_o to_o make_v it_o a_o bloody_a and_o wilful_a cast_v away_o of_o soul_n if_o the_o church_n provide_v not_o that_o child_n have_v baptism_n howsoever_o and_o here_o we_o pray_v you_o to_o teach_v we_o whether_o the_o covenant_n and_o sacrament_n in_o the_o gospel_n be_v not_o the_o same_o in_o nature_n virtue_n and_o substance_n that_o they_o be_v under_o the_o law_n or_o that_o our_o sacrament_n have_v more_o necessity_n and_o if_o so_o why_o our_o reverend_a father_n disavow_v the_o necessity_n of_o baptism_n to_o be_v do_v any_o other_o wise_a then_o as_o it_o ought_v because_o god_n appoint_v circumcision_n till_o the_o eight_o day_n be_v there_o a_o further_a grace_n in_o our_o sacrament_n or_o have_v they_o not_o somewhat_o in_o the_o work_n wrought_v which_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o law_n have_v not_o we_o pray_v you_o therefore_o plain_o and_o distinctlie_o to_o show_v we_o your_o mind_n whether_o righteousness_n come_v by_o baptism_n or_o by_o faith_n and_o see_v notwithstanding_o all_o these_o hard_a and_o peremptory_a speech_n you_o sometime_o say_v that_o 135._o grace_n be_v not_o absolute_o tie_v to_o sacrament_n and_o the_o necessity_n of_o receive_v not_o so_o absolute_a as_o that_o of_o administer_a the_o sacrament_n we_o will_v fain_o know_v what_o you_o hold_v and_o affirm_v what_o manner_n of_o necessity_n you_o mean_v for_o if_o grace_n be_v not_o absolute_o tie_v unto_o sacrament_n and_o necessity_n of_o receive_v sacrament_n not_o absolute_a we_o know_v not_o what_o shall_v make_v necessity_n of_o administer_a absolute_a but_o that_o as_o our_o reverend_a father_n say_v we_o be_v not_o enthrall_v to_o appoint_v or_o suffer_v it_o to_o be_v do_v by_o woman_n or_o lay_v person_n if_o it_o can_v be_v have_v as_o it_o ought_v and_o if_o god_n have_v not_o add_v any_o such_o condition_n of_o baptism_n where_o borrow_v you_o that_o distinction_n we_o can_v not_o tell_v where_o to_o find_v you_o or_o how_o to_o take_v your_o meaning_n or_o at_o the_o least_o that_o your_o mind_n concur_v with_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n we_o expect_v therefore_o and_o pray_v you_o to_o declare_v faithful_o these_o thing_n unto_o us._n the_o church_n of_o england_n pronounce_v transubstantiation_n that_o domini_fw-la the_o transubstantiation_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n in_o the_o eucharist_n can_v not_o be_v prove_v by_o the_o sacred_a scripture_n but_o be_v against_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n overturn_v the_o nature_n of_o the_o sacrament_n &_o have_v give_v occasion_n of_o many_o superstition_n and_o for_o this_o cause_n our_o reverend_a father_n call_v it_o 10_o a_o monstrous_a &_o blasphemous_a doctrine_n catechis_n bring_v in_o doubt_n the_o truth_n of_o christ_n body_n 1576._o contrary_a to_o christ_n word_n say_v it_o be_v expedient_a that_o i_o go_v away_o joh._n 16._o 7._o and_o to_o that_o of_o peter_n who_o the_o heaven_n must_v contain_v until_o the_o time_n that_o all_o thing_n be_v restore_v act._n 3._o 21._o disagree_v from_o the_o article_n of_o faith_n he_o ascend_v into_o heaven_n sit_v at_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o god_n the_o father_n etc._n etc._n make_v void_a the_o institution_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v to_o continue_v till_o he_o come_v etc._n etc._n cast_v holy_a thing_n to_o profane_v as_o whoremonger_n murderer_n etc._n etc._n mouse_n and_o dog_n to_o receive_v the_o true_a real_a body_n of_o christ._n cause_v most_o cruel_a eat_n of_o man_n flesh_n and_o many_o monstrous_a miracle_n accident_n without_o subject_n the_o body_n of_o christ_n without_o his_o quality_n and_o true_a manner_n of_o a_o body_n nourishinge_v the_o marcionist_n to_o believe_v the_o fantastical_a body_n of_o christ_n and_o eutichian_o confound_v the_o two_o nature_n of_o christ_n and_o therefore_o they_o which_o affirm_v transubstantiation_n be_v indeed_o right_a sacramentary_n and_o capernaite_n in_o regard_v whereof_o we_o entreat_v you_o mai._n hoo._n to_o make_v a_o fit_a construction_n of_o your_o word_n be_v you_o say_v 177._o sith_o we_o all_o agree_v that_o by_o the_o sacrament_n christ_n do_v real_o and_o true_o in_o we_o perform_v his_o promise_n why_o do_v we_o vain_o trouble_v ourselves_o with_o so_o fierce_a contention_n whether_o by_o consubstantiation_n or_o else_o by_o transubstantiation_n the_o sacrament_n itself_o be_v first_o possess_v with_o christ_n or_o no_o a_o thing_n which_o no_o way_n can_v either_o further_a or_o hinder_v we_o howsover_v it_o stand_v because_o our_o participation_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n depend_v on_o the_o cooperation_n of_o his_o omnipotent_a power_n which_o make_v it_o his_o body_n and_o blood_n unto_o we_o whether_o with_o change_n or_o without_o alteration_n of_o the_o element_n such_o as_o they_o imagine_v we_o need_v not_o great_o to_o care_n nor_o inquire_v after_o in_o all_o which_o word_n you_o seem_v to_o