conceive_v be_v very_o true_o speak_v and_o thereupon_o it_o follow_v that_o there_o be_v a_o supremacy_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o that_o church_n of_o antioch_n and_o no_o necessity_n of_o appeal_n from_o they_o to_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o other_o for_o â—ith_o the_o synod_n be_v only_o to_o command_v the_o church_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n and_o to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o offender_n to_o the_o church_n themselves_o to_o who_o the_o offender_n belong_v it_o plain_o appear_v thereby_o where_o the_o supremacy_n of_o jurisdiction_n do_v lie_v the_o other_o place_n be_v in_o his_o page_n 307._o where_o we_o have_v these_o word_n viz._n the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n ordinary_a intensive_a and_o quo_fw-la ad_fw-la essentiam_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la ministerialis_fw-la according_a to_o the_o entire_a essence_n of_o a_o ministerial_a church_n be_v as_o perfect_a and_o complete_a in_o one_o single_a congregation_n as_o in_o a_o provincial_n as_o in_o a_o national_n yea_o as_o in_o the_o catholic_a visible_a body_n whereof_o christ_n be_v the_o head_n now_o if_o there_o be_v such_o perfect_a &_o complete_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o a_o single_a congregation_n i_o know_v not_o how_o there_o can_v be_v such_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v from_o they_o to_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o other_o as_o he_o be_v plead_v for_o nor_o how_o that_o supreme_a and_o independent_a power_n in_o congregation_n can_v be_v deny_v which_o here_o he_o dispute_v against_o for_o let_v this_o complete_a and_o perfect_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v acknowledge_v as_o due_a to_o such_o church_n and_o appeal_v from_o they_o to_o other_o jurisdiction_n will_v be_v of_o small_a necessity_n or_o use_n i_o know_v indeed_o this_o reverend_a author_n say_v in_o the_o page_n last_o mention_v and_o within_o a_o few_o line_n of_o the_o word_n which_o i_o have_v here_o allege_v that_o a_o congregation_n be_v so_o a_o part_n of_o the_o presbytery_n that_o it_o have_v not_o a_o whole_a entire_a complete_a intensive_a power_n over_o its_o own_o member_n to_o excommunicate_v they_o and_o therefore_o the_o consociate_v church_n must_v have_v a_o power_n over_o the_o member_n of_o a_o congregation_n which_o word_n i_o confess_v seem_v not_o well_o to_o agree_v with_o the_o former_a because_o in_o the_o one_o entire_a complete_a intensive_a power_n be_v deny_v to_o a_o congregation_n and_o in_o the_o other_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n ordinary_a intensive_a be_v say_v to_o be_v as_o complete_a and_o perfect_a in_o the_o congregation_n as_o in_o the_o great_a church_n but_o it_o be_v not_o the_o latter_a word_n but_o the_o former_a which_o i_o do_v stand_v upon_o and_o by_o they_o as_o i_o conceive_v the_o supremacy_n of_o congregation_n be_v establish_v and_o the_o necessity_n of_o appeal_n from_o they_o to_o other_o jurisdiction_n be_v clear_o take_v away_o for_o if_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v as_o entire_a perfect_a and_o complete_a in_o the_o congregation_n as_o in_o the_o great_a church_n as_o our_o brother_n express_o affirm_v it_o to_o be_v i_o know_v not_o the_o reason_n why_o there_o must_v be_v appeal_n from_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o the_o congregation_n unto_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o those_o other_o church_n if_o the_o power_n speak_v of_o be_v more_o imperfect_a and_o incomplete_a in_o the_o congregation_n than_o it_o be_v in_o the_o other_o church_n than_o there_o may_v be_v more_o reason_n or_o fair_a pretence_n for_o those_o appeal_n but_o since_o our_o author_n confess_v it_o be_v no_o more_o entire_a complete_a and_o perfect_a in_o these_o then_o in_o the_o congregation_n but_o as_o complete_a and_o perfect_a in_o the_o congregation_n as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o other_o i_o be_o yet_o to_o seek_v of_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o the_o necessity_n of_o appeal_n from_o the_o jurisdiction_n in_o a_o congregation_n for_o be_v it_o reasonable_a to_o appeal_v from_o one_o judicatory_a to_o another_o and_o yet_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v as_o entire_a complete_a and_o perfect_a in_o the_o former_a from_o which_o the_o appeal_n be_v make_v as_o in_o the_o latter_a to_o which_o the_o cause_n be_v bring_v by_o such_o appeal_n it_o seem_v by_o such_o appeal_v we_o be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v much_o helper_n nor_o much_o to_o mend_v the_o matter_n above_o what_o it_o be_v before_o and_o therefore_o the_o usefulness_n and_o necessity_n thereof_o be_v still_o unclâ—â—â—â—_n i_o think_v the_o brethren_n err_v in_o this_o to_o teach_v that_o antioch_n have_v power_n to_o determine_v the_o controversy_n act._n 15._o when_o the_o church_n of_o syria_n and_o cicilia_n to_o their_o knowledge_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a question_n as_o verse_n 24._o may_v clear_v i_o doubt_v much_o if_o they_o have_v power_n to_o determine_v a_o question_n that_o so_o much_o concern_v all_o the_o church_n answ_n it_o be_v not_o clear_a from_o verse_n 24._o nor_o from_o any_o part_n of_o the_o chapter_n as_o far_o as_o i_o can_v find_v that_o antioch_n do_v know_v that_o other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o this_o question_n and_o if_o they_o have_v know_v it_o i_o see_v nothing_o therein_o but_o they_o may_v notwithstanding_o lawful_o end_v the_o matter_n so_o far_o as_o concern_v themselves_o for_o when_o this_o question_n be_v start_v among_o they_o by_o such_o as_o come_v from_o judea_n and_o teach_v this_o corrupt_a doctrine_n at_o antioch_n the_o text_n be_v very_o clear_a verse_n 2_o that_o they_o have_v much_o disputation_n among_o themselves_o to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n afore_o there_o be_v any_o speech_n of_o send_v to_o jerusalem_n which_o disputation_n be_v a_o argument_n that_o they_o have_v right_a to_o have_v end_v it_o if_o ability_n have_v noâ—_n be_v want_v and_o as_o for_o our_o brother_n reason_n for_o the_o contrary_n take_v from_o their_o knowledge_n that_o the_o other_o church_n of_o syria_n and_o cicilia_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a question_n there_o be_v not_o one_o word_n in_o the_o verse_n allege_v to_o show_v that_o antioch_n have_v knowledge_n of_o any_o such_o matter_n nor_o be_v syria_n and_o cicilia_n once_o mention_v therein_o and_o though_o they_o be_v mention_v verse_n 23._o yet_o neither_o do_v this_o verse_n declare_v that_o antioch_n have_v any_o knowledge_n that_o this_o question_n have_v ever_o trouble_v those_o other_o church_n say_v it_o be_v true_a that_o indeed_o they_o have_v be_v trouble_v therewith_o and_o that_o the_o epistle_n from_o the_o synod_n do_v intimate_v no_o less_o this_o may_v prove_v that_o when_o the_o epistle_n come_v to_o be_v read_v at_o antioch_n than_o antioch_n by_o this_o mean_n may_v come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n thereof_o but_o all_o this_o do_v not_o prove_v that_o antioch_n know_v so_o much_o afore_o and_o therefore_o they_o may_v endeavour_v to_o end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o as_o not_o know_v for_o any_o thing_n our_o author_n have_v yet_o bring_v to_o the_o contrary_a that_o any_o other_o church_n beside_o themselves_o be_v trouble_v therewith_o but_o suppose_v they_o have_v know_v so_o much_o i_o see_v nothing_o in_o this_o to_o hinder_v but_o antioch_n may_v lawful_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n in_o the_o question_n and_o censure_v such_o of_o their_o church_n as_o shall_v obstinate_o hold_v and_o teach_v that_o false_a doctrine_n notwithstanding_o their_o knowledge_n that_o other_o have_v be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a doctrine_n and_o teacher_n suppose_v a_o christian_a family_n be_v trouble_v with_o lie_a child_n or_o servant_n or_o such_o as_o be_v disobedient_a and_o undutiful_a in_o one_o kind_n or_o in_o another_o suppose_v they_o also_o know_v that_o their_o neighbour_n family_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a shall_v this_o knowledge_n of_o they_o hinder_v the_o parent_n or_o master_n in_o such_o a_o family_n from_o censure_v or_o correct_v these_o that_o be_v under_o their_o government_n according_a to_o their_o demerit_n if_o not_o why_o shall_v antioch_n be_v hinder_v from_o censure_a offend_a member_n of_o their_o church_n only_o upon_o this_o ground_n because_o to_o their_o knowledge_n other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a offender_n a_o city_n or_o corporation_n be_v trouble_v with_o drunkard_n with_o thief_n or_o other_o vicious_a and_o lewd_a person_n and_o know_v that_o other_o city_n or_o corporation_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a a_o national_n church_n as_o scotland_n for_o example_n be_v trouble_v with_o obtruder_n of_o ceremony_n service_n book_n episcopacy_n or_o other_o corruption_n and_o know_v that_o england_n or_o other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a shall_v scotland_n now_o be_v hinder_v from_o remove_v these_o corruption_n and_o the_o obtruder_n of_o they_o from_o among_o themselves_o only_o upon_o this_o ground_n because_o england_n to_o their_o knowledge_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a or_o shall_v the_o corporation_n â—ee_z hinder_v from_o
necessity_n will_v warrant_v a_o man_n to_o celebrate_v the_o lord_n supper_n without_o a_o call_n from_o the_o church_n which_o two_o saying_n for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v do_v not_o agree_v for_o in_o the_o one_o it_o be_v affirm_v that_o if_o they_o may_v exercise_v discipline_n and_o censure_n they_o may_v by_o the_o like_a reason_n administer_v sacrament_n and_o the_o other_o say_v they_o may_v exercise_v discipline_n and_o censure_n and_o yet_o may_v not_o administer_v sacrament_n and_o yet_o both_o the_o say_n be_v express_v by_o the_o same_o author_n pen._n chap._n xi_o whether_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v immediate_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v not_o agree_v to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o otherwise_o neighbour_a church_n be_v not_o a_o loss_n and_o whether_o pretence_n of_o maladministration_n be_v a_o sufficient_a reason_n for_o neighbour_a church_n to_o deprive_v a_o congregation_n of_o its_o power_n the_o next_o place_n where_o i_o find_v mr._n rutherford_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o his_o page_n 455._o where_o he_o bring_v in_o these_o word_n under_o mr._n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o viz._n if_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v immediate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o a_o congregation_n be_v essential_o a_o church_n than_o this_o power_n agree_v to_o all_o church_n whether_o consociate_v or_o not_o consociate_v and_o without_o respect_n of_o what_o neighbour_n they_o have_v whether_o many_o or_o few_o whether_o any_o or_o none_o second_o a_o congregation_n itself_o alone_o can_v have_v sole_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o then_o be_v deprive_v of_o it_o when_o god_n send_v neighbour_n for_o then_o neighbour_a church_n which_o be_v give_v for_o help_n shall_v be_v give_v for_o loss_n the_o contrary_a whereof_o ames_n say_v no._n do_v synod_n say_v he_o constitute_v a_o new_a form_n of_o a_o church_n thus_o far_o mr._n rutherford_n who_o in_o his_o margin_n allege_v mr._n tompson_n and_o i_o 16._o pag._n 4_o 5._o answ_n in_o one_o of_o these_o page_n of_o the_o answer_n viz._n p._n 5._o there_o be_v nothing_o at_o all_o to_o be_v find_v that_o look_n towards_o such_o a_o purpose_n as_o our_o brother_n have_v in_o hand_n and_o therefore_o this_o page_n shall_v not_o have_v be_v here_o allege_v the_o word_n of_o dr._n ames_n be_v more_o imperfect_o cite_v by_o our_o brother_n than_o they_o be_v allege_v in_o the_o answer_n for_o the_o answer_n allege_v they_o thus_o out_o of_o medulla_n theol._n lib._n 1._o chapter_n 3._o sect_n 27._o that_o the_o combination_n of_o church_n into_o class_n and_o synod_n do_v neither_o constitute_v a_o new_a form_n of_o a_o church_n nor_o ought_v by_o any_o mean_n to_o take_v away_o or_o impayer_n that_o liberty_n and_o power_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o his_o church_n since_o it_o serve_v only_o for_o the_o direct_n and_o further_a of_o the_o same_o whereas_o our_o brother_n express_v only_o those_o first_o word_n that_o synod_n do_v not_o constitute_v a_o new_a form_n of_o a_o church_n but_o all_o the_o rest_n wherein_o the_o chief_a strength_n of_o dr._n ames_n his_o testimony_n do_v lie_v they_o he_o do_v whole_o omit_v and_o leave_v out_o he_o also_o leave_v out_o the_o assent_n which_o be_v give_v by_o mr._n paget_n to_o this_o testimony_n of_o dr._n ames_n which_o assent_n as_o it_o be_v express_v in_o his_o defence_n p._n 107._o in_o these_o word_n this_o we_o do_v willing_o grant_v be_v also_o in_o the_o â—ame_n word_n allege_v by_o the_o answer_n in_o p._n 4._o but_o this_o be_v whole_o pass_v over_o by_o mr._n rutherford_n in_o silence_n now_o two_o such_o man_n as_o these_o be_v allege_v in_o the_o answer_n as_o plain_o affirm_v that_o the_o combination_n of_o church_n into_o class_n and_o synod_n must_v neither_o tollere_fw-la nor_o minuere_fw-la take_v away_o not_o impair_v or_o diminish_v the_o liberty_n or_o power_n of_o church_n but_o only_o serve_v for_o the_o direct_n and_o further_a of_o the_o same_o and_o the_o one_o of_o they_o be_v the_o chief_a patron_n of_o the_o power_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n it_o be_v some_o marvel_n to_o i_o that_o no_o word_n of_o answer_n be_v vouchsafe_v to_o they_o by_o mr._n rutherford_n but_o that_o their_o word_n be_v thus_o pass_v by_o with_o silence_n and_o the_o name_n of_o one_o of_o they_o not_o so_o much_o as_o mention_v how_o ever_o this_o be_v clear_a that_o he_o that_o gainsay_v the_o answer_n in_o this_o passage_n have_v not_o only_o the_o answer_n but_o also_o the_o reverend_a author_n here_o mention_v to_o be_v against_o he_o but_o let_v we_o come_v to_o consider_v of_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o answer_n which_o he_o subjoin_v in_o these_o word_n viz._n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n ergo_fw-la a_o total_a and_o complete_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n or_o congregation_n consociate_v it_o follow_v no_o way_n answ_n i_o desire_v the_o reason_n may_v be_v lay_v down_o according_a to_o our_o true_a meaning_n therein_o and_o in_o its_o full_a strength_n and_o then_o the_o former_a part_n thereof_o must_v not_o only_o speak_v of_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n that_o want_v neighbour_n but_o of_o entire_a power_n for_o thereof_o be_v the_o question_n and_o in_o the_o latter_a part_n the_o term_n must_v no_o be_v a_o church_n consociate_v but_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n now_o if_o entire_a power_n and_o jurisdiction_n do_v flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o this_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n be_v find_v in_o a_o congregation_n that_o want_v neighbour_n this_o entireness_n of_o power_n muâ—t_v thereupon_o be_v grant_v to_o such_o a_o congregation_n i_o then_o demand_v why_o the_o like_a entireness_n of_o power_n must_v not_o be_v grant_v as_o well_o to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n since_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n be_v find_v in_o this_o congregation_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v either_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n must_v be_v deny_v to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n or_o else_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n must_v be_v grant_v to_o such_o a_o congregation_n risibility_n and_o power_n of_o reason_n flow_v immediate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o man_n and_o power_n to_o defend_v itself_o and_o purge_v out_o excrement_n flow_v in_o like_a sort_n from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o humane_a body_n and_o power_n to_o govern_v itself_o with_o family_n government_n flow_v in_o like_a sort_n from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o family_n therefore_o we_o must_v not_o grant_v these_o power_n to_o be_v entire_a in_o such_o a_o man_n such_o a_o body_n or_o such_o a_o family_n as_o be_v alone_o and_o deny_v the_o same_o to_o one_o that_o have_v neighbour_n but_o must_v grant_v they_o alike_o unto_o all_o because_o this_o power_n flow_v from_o their_o very_a essence_n which_o be_v as_o true_o find_v in_o such_o as_o have_v neighbour_n as_o it_o be_v in_o those_o that_o be_v alone_o and_o the_o like_a may_v be_v say_v in_o other_o case_n and_o why_o it_o shall_v be_v otherwise_o in_o a_o congregationall_a church_n that_o the_o power_n of_o the_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o such_o a_o church_n shall_v therefore_o be_v entire_a in_o such_o a_o congregation_n as_o be_v alone_o in_o a_o island_n and_o yet_o not_o entire_a in_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n though_o this_o congregation_n have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o why_o these_o congregation_n i_o say_v shall_v thus_o great_o differ_v in_o their_o power_n and_o yet_o be_v alike_o in_o their_o essence_n from_o whence_o their_o power_n do_v flow_v for_o my_o part_n i_o yet_o do_v not_o understand_v the_o reason_n nor_o do_v that_o satisfy_v which_o mr._n rutherford_n here_o allege_v that_o one_o pastor_n in_o a_o congregation_n have_v as_o a_o pastor_n power_n to_o rebuke_v sin_n and_o to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n and_o yet_o when_o three_o pastor_n be_v add_v to_o help_v he_o he_o have_v not_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o rebuke_v sin_n and_o the_o sole_a and_o entire_a power_n to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n but_o these_o three_o pastor_n have_v power_n with_o he_o this_o i_o conceive_v do_v not_o help_v the_o matter_n at_o all_o for_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o these_o three_o pastor_n be_v add_v to_o the_o first_o have_v each_o of_o they_o the_o like_a power_n as_o the_o first_o have_v yet_o the_o power_n of_o the_o
and_o that_o be_v a_o church_n and_o have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essential_a note_n of_o a_o church_n now_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v essential_a note_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n page_n 302._o second_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o church_n want_v nothing_o of_o the_o be_v and_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n page_n 302._o three_o where_o consociation_n be_v not_o ordination_n and_o excommunication_n may_v be_v do_v by_o one_o single_a congregation_n page_n 338._o four_o that_o in_o such_o case_n viz._n when_o a_o church_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o they_o have_v the_o word_n preach_v and_o entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n whole_a and_o entire_a within_o themselves_o to_o excommunicate_v scandalous_a person_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a page_n 454._o five_o it_o flow_v connatural_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n ibid._n six_o neither_o do_v a_o congregation_n transgress_v any_o rule_n of_o christ_n at_o all_o when_o it_o exercise_v entire_a power_n of_o censure_n within_o itself_o whereas_o there_o be_v no_o consociate_v church_n to_o share_v with_o it_o in_o that_o power_n ibid._n seven_o a_o congregation_n be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n because_o it_o be_v a_o church_n ibid._n such_o say_n as_o these_o himself_o have_v deliver_v in_o the_o page_n and_o place_n here_o cite_v and_o in_o the_o word_n and_o term_n here_o express_v and_o therefore_o from_o these_o he_o can_v clear_v himself_o and_o if_o from_o these_o the_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n may_v just_o be_v deduce_v as_o i_o conceive_v it_o may_v and_o have_v above_o manifest_v it_o will_v then_o but_o little_o avail_v he_o to_o wash_v his_o hand_n from_o the_o stain_n of_o that_o other_o absurd_a say_n afore_o mention_v which_o no_o man_n that_o i_o know_v do_v charge_n he_o withal_o for_o as_o long_o as_o these_o other_o say_n do_v stand_v unrecal_v so_o long_o we_o have_v clear_a ground_n from_o himself_o and_o his_o own_o word_n for_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o every_o congregationall_a church_n and_o so_o for_o the_o weaken_n of_o his_o cause_n and_o for_o the_o strengthen_n of_o our_o own_o a_o power_n to_o govern_v well_o and_o according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n add_v to_o a_o other_o power_n to_o govern_v well_o and_o according_a to_o the_o word_n be_v a_o auxiliary_a power_n and_o no_o way_n destructive_a to_o that_o power_n to_o which_o it_o be_v add_v indeed_o a_o power_n to_o govern_v well_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o maladministration_n in_o a_o congregation_n be_v destructive_a of_o that_o power_n and_o reason_n it_o shall_v be_v so_o because_o christ_n never_o give_v any_o such_o power_n of_o maladministration_n to_o a_o congregation_n answ_n here_o our_o brother_n speak_v of_o two_o case_n first_o of_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o second_o of_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v ill_a but_o beside_o these_o there_o be_v a_o three_o case_n which_o have_v need_v to_o be_v consider_v also_o viz._n a_o power_n of_o govern_v ill_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o which_o may_v be_v the_o case_n when_o the_o power_n of_o classis_fw-la be_v add_v to_o a_o congregation_n for_o it_o be_v not_o impossible_a but_o the_o congregation_n may_v be_v in_o the_o right_n and_o the_o classis_fw-la in_o the_o wrong_n now_o what_o shall_v be_v say_v or_o do_v in_o this_o â—ase_n shall_v the_o congregation_n now_o have_v the_o free_a exercise_n of_o its_o power_n or_o shall_v it_o not_o to_o say_v yea_o will_v satisfy_v the_o mind_n of_o many_o if_o the_o congregation_n themselves_o may_v be_v judge_n that_o they_o be_v in_o the_o right_n or_o if_o it_o be_v determine_v who_o must_v judge_v thereof_o and_o to_o say_v no_o and_o that_o the_o power_n must_v still_o be_v in_o this_o err_a classis_fw-la be_v to_o subject_a righteousness_n to_o wickedness_n and_o truth_n to_o falsehood_n and_o i_o conceive_v our_o brother_n will_v not_o maintain_v such_o power_n in_o a_o compound_n or_o presbytery_n or_o classis_fw-la for_o in_o page_n 335._o speak_v of_o this_o very_a case_n and_o the_o great_a presbytery_n be_v wrong_a in_o their_o voice_n and_o the_o elder_n of_o a_o congregationall_a church_n be_v right_a and_o have_v the_o best_a in_o judge_v of_o a_o case_n before_o they_o he_o plain_o affirm_v that_o the_o power_n which_o in_o this_o case_n the_o presbytery_n exercise_v be_v not_o of_o christ_n and_o that_o the_o jure_v the_o power_n of_o the_o great_a presbytery_n in_o this_o case_n ought_v to_o be_v swallow_v up_o of_o the_o voice_n of_o the_o elder_n of_o a_o congregation_n though_o they_o be_v few_o in_o number_n now_o if_o this_o be_v so_o than_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n be_v still_o as_o uncertain_a as_o before_o and_o still_o we_o be_v to_o seek_v where_o the_o power_n of_o censure_n or_o jurisdiction_n do_v final_o reside_v for_o in_o the_o one_o place_n our_o brother_n tell_v we_o christ_n never_o give_v power_n of_o maladministration_n to_o a_o congregation_n and_o in_o the_o other_o he_o tell_v we_o the_o like_a of_o a_o classis_fw-la or_o great_a presbytery_n and_o that_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o power_n to_o any_o church_n to_o err_v by_o which_o say_n we_o be_v leave_v at_o great_a uncertainty_n for_o still_o the_o question_n will_v be_v whether_o the_o congregation_n do_v err_v or_o no_o and_o so_o whether_o the_o classis_fw-la do_v err_v or_o no_o and_o unless_o it_o be_v determine_v who_o must_v judge_v of_o this_o we_o be_v still_o but_o where_o we_o be_v and_o no_o near_o a_o issue_n then_o before_o this_o indeed_o be_v most_o true_a and_o must_v be_v so_o acknowledge_v that_o though_o the_o lord_n almighty_n have_v give_v a_o power_n unto_o society_n whether_o they_o be_v family_n commonwealth_n or_o church_n and_o have_v make_v sundry_a of_o they_o subordinate_a to_o none_o other_o the_o like_a society_n in_o the_o exercise_n of_o their_o power_n but_o to_o have_v supremacy_n of_o power_n within_o themselves_o yet_o he_o have_v also_o give_v they_o just_a and_o holy_a rule_n in_o his_o word_n for_o the_o direct_n of_o they_o in_o the_o use_n of_o this_o power_n from_o which_o rule_v it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o they_o to_o swerve_v or_o go_v astray_o but_o if_o they_o do_v it_o will_v be_v sin_n unto_o they_o and_o he_o will_v sure_o require_v it_o of_o they_o but_o now_o between_o these_o two_o the_o power_n itself_o and_o the_o abuse_n or_o right_a use_n of_o the_o power_n we_o must_v careful_o distinguish_v for_o though_o abuse_n of_o their_o power_n be_v not_o give_v of_o god_n from_o who_o come_v nothing_o but_o good_a yet_o the_o power_n itself_o be_v good_a be_v give_v of_o he_o and_o be_v so_o to_o be_v acknowledge_v and_o though_o abuse_v of_o their_o power_n do_v just_o deserve_v at_o his_o hand_n that_o they_o shall_v be_v deprive_v of_o the_o power_n itself_o yeâ—_n god_n do_v not_o always_o forthwith_o deal_v with_o man_n according_a to_o their_o desert_n herein_o but_o many_o time_n continue_v still_o to_o they_o their_o power_n though_o they_o have_v abuse_v the_o same_o much_o less_o do_v he_o allow_v other_o to_o deprive_v they_o of_o this_o power_n because_o of_o every_o abuse_n thereon_o witness_n among_o other_o the_o example_n of_o the_o pagan_a prince_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n who_o through_o their_o ignorance_n infidelity_n pride_n and_o other_o sin_n can_v not_o but_o in_o great_a measure_n abuse_v their_o authority_n and_o yet_o the_o holy_a ghost_n command_v the_o christian_n to_o be_v subject_a and_o obedient_a thereunto_o rom._n 13._o 1_o 2._o etc._n etc._n it_o be_v 3._o 1._o not_o to_o obey_v they_o indeed_o in_o do_v evil_a at_o their_o command_n for_o in_o such_o case_n they_o must_v obey_v god_n rather_o than_o man_n as_o act_n 5._o 29._o yet_o still_o they_o must_v be_v subject_a to_o the_o power_n either_o active_o or_o passive_o even_o then_o when_o the_o power_n be_v sinful_o abuse_v even_o so_o if_o a_o family_n shall_v abuse_v their_o power_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o other_o family_n may_v lawful_o for_o this_o cause_n take_v away_o their_o power_n from_o they_o or_o if_o a_o corporation_n shall_v so_o offend_v it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o other_o corporation_n may_v deprive_v they_o of_o their_o power_n and_o if_o it_o be_v so_o in_o commonwealth_n and_o family_n why_o may_v we_o not_o say_v the_o same_o of_o church_n or_o how_o will_v it_o follow_v if_o a_o church_n shall_v abuse_v their_o power_n
1_o the_o substance_n of_o their_o call_n consist_v not_o in_o this_o lay_n on_o of_o hand_n but_o in_o some_o thing_n else_o and_o what_o shall_v that_o be_v but_o their_o election_n by_o the_o people_n 2._o if_o it_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o sign_n of_o pray_v over_o then_o then_o why_o be_v a_o consummatory_n rite_n and_o a_o benedictory_n sign_n gainsay_v and_o oppose_v for_o what_o great_a difference_n be_v there_o between_o a_o sign_n of_o prayer_n and_o a_o benedictory_n sign_n and_o how_o shall_v he_o be_v reconcile_v with_o himself_o that_o say_v it_o be_v nothing_o but_o such_o a_o sign_n of_o pray_v and_o yet_o will_v not_o yield_v that_o it_o be_v only_o a_o benedictory_n sign_n and_o for_o the_o other_o particular_a where_o he_o say_v this_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n be_v enjoy_v to_o timothy_n as_o a_o ministerial_a act_n if_o by_o ministerial_a act_n he_o mean_v a_o act_n that_o can_v be_v lawful_o perform_v by_o none_o but_o only_o by_o a_o minister_n then_o i_o desire_v some_o proof_n that_o this_o be_v so_o enjoin_v to_o timothy_n that_o it_o be_v enjoin_v to_o he_o i_o grant_v but_o that_o it_o be_v so_o enjoin_v needs_o some_o better_a proof_n than_o a_o bare_a and_o naked_a affirmation_n special_o since_o many_o thing_n be_v enjoin_v to_o timothy_n in_o those_o example_n which_o be_v and_o be_v just_o applyable_a to_o all_o christian_n furthermore_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a that_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v enjoin_v to_o timothy_n as_o a_o ministerial_a act_n how_o do_v this_o reach_n to_o make_v good_a the_o thing_n in_o question_n what_o shall_v hinder_v but_o the_o people_n election_n may_v contain_v the_o substance_n of_o a_o minister_n call_v notwithstanding_o or_o how_o do_v it_o therefore_o follow_v that_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v not_o a_o consummatory_n rite_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n but_o something_o more_o be_v there_o any_o such_o necessary_a consequence_n here_o that_o the_o one_o of_o these_o must_v needs_o follow_v upon_o the_o other_o for_o my_o part_n i_o see_v it_o not_o nor_o see_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o contrary_a but_o if_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v such_o a_o ministerial_a act_n as_o he_o say_v it_o be_v yet_o it_o may_v still_o be_v mere_o a_o consummatory_n rite_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n and_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o call_n consist_v still_o in_o the_o people_n election_n himself_o do_v say_v as_o we_o hear_v even_o now_o that_o imposition_n of_o hand_n act._n 6._o though_o here_o he_o call_v it_o a_o ministerial_a act_n be_v nothing_o but_o a_o sign_n of_o pray_v over_o the_o deacon_n and_o therefore_o these_o two_o to_o be_v a_o ministerial_a act_n and_o yet_o to_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o sign_n of_o prayer_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n which_o to_o i_o be_v the_o same_o be_v not_o so_o inconsistent_a by_o his_o own_o doctrine_n but_o that_o they_o may_v well_o stand_v together_o and_o himself_o do_v also_o hold_v that_o the_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n mention_v numb_a 8._o 10._o be_v a_o ministerial_a act_n and_o that_o they_o who_o do_v it_o perform_v the_o same_o as_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v he_o will_v not_o deny_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o levite_n call_v be_v in_o the_o immediate_a designment_n and_o appointment_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o not_o in_o the_o performance_n of_o this_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n and_o therefore_o it_o follow_v that_o if_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n be_v grant_v to_o be_v a_o ministerial_a act_n yet_o still_o it_o may_v be_v mere_o a_o benedictory_n sign_n and_o the_o substance_n or_o essence_n of_o the_o minister_n call_v not_o consist_v in_o it_o but_o in_o some_o thing_n else_o a_o ministerial_a call_n stand_v in_o a_o authoritative_a send_n rom._n 10._o 15._o and_o i_o see_v not_o well_o how_o the_o people_n do_v send_v a_o minister_n to_o themselves_o answ_n but_o it_o be_v not_o easy_a to_o see_v how_o they_o choose_v a_o man_n for_o a_o minister_n to_o themselves_o be_v send_v unto_o they_o by_o god_n and_o if_o god_n do_v furnish_v a_o man_n with_o gift_n and_o a_o holy_a propensity_n of_o mind_n to_o the_o work_n in_o general_a and_o to_o such_o or_o such_o a_o people_n in_o particular_a and_o make_v way_n by_o his_o providence_n thereto_o than_o who_o can_v deny_v but_o such_o a_o man_n be_v send_v of_o god_n unto_o that_o people_n and_o then_o if_o that_o people_n observe_v god_n send_v of_o he_o in_o this_o sâ—â—t_n do_v hereupon_o elect_v and_o choose_v he_o and_o promise_v to_o be_v obedient_a to_o he_o in_o the_o lord_n what_o be_v there_o now_o want_v to_o the_o substance_n and_o offence_n of_o such_o a_o man_n calling_n to_o such_o a_o people_n and_o yet_o the_o man_n be_v not_o send_v by_o they_o to_o themselves_o but_o send_v by_o god_n and_o receive_v and_o choose_v by_o they_o parcus_n understand_v this_o send_n rom._n 10._o of_o god_n send_v and_o so_o do_v piscator_fw-la and_o who_o not_o and_o to_o understand_v it_o otherwise_o will_v be_v to_o condemn_v the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n who_o be_v not_o send_v by_o man_n at_o all_o and_o yet_o do_v true_o answer_v this_o scripture_n in_o that_o they_o be_v send_v of_o god_n true_a it_o be_v ordinary_a minister_n be_v not_o send_v of_o god_n in_o such_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n as_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n be_v but_o in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n and_o by_o ordinary_a mean_n which_o way_n and_o mean_n if_o they_o do_v observe_v they_o also_o may_v be_v true_o say_v to_o be_v send_v of_o god_n unto_o the_o people_n but_o peradventure_o our_o brother_n mean_v that_o the_o people_n may_v not_o lawful_o choose_v a_o man_n for_o minister_v unto_o themselves_o except_o he_o be_v first_o send_v unto_o they_o in_o a_o authoritative_a way_n by_o some_o other_o man_n and_o that_o otherwise_o he_o be_v not_o send_v unto_o they_o of_o god_n which_o if_o it_o be_v true_a than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n as_o i_o say_v be_v not_o send_v of_o god_n for_o plain_a it_o be_v that_o man_n send_v they_o not_o it_o will_v also_o hereupon_o be_v requisite_a to_o be_v clear_v that_o some_o man_n beside_o the_o church_n have_v authority_n to_o send_v minister_n to_o the_o church_n and_o who_o these_o man_n be_v that_o have_v such_o authority_n have_v need_v to_o be_v clear_v also_o which_o i_o for_o my_o part_n think_v will_v not_o be_v do_v in_o haste_n and_o till_o this_o be_v do_v i_o know_v no_o reason_n but_o i_o may_v still_o retain_v this_o apprehension_n that_o man_n who_o be_v qualify_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n and_o due_o elect_v and_o choose_v to_o some_o office_n of_o the_o ministry_n by_o god_n people_n be_v true_o send_v of_o god_n unto_o that_o people_n the_o people_n have_v not_o either_o formal_o or_o by_o grant_n of_o christ_n virtual_o the_o key_n commit_v to_o they_o how_o then_o can_v they_o give_v the_o key_n to_o pastor_n answ_n yet_o in_o p._n 7._o he_o tell_v we_o that_o he_o deny_v not_o but_o there_o be_v a_o power_n virtual_a not_o formal_a in_o the_o church_n of_o believer_n to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordination_n of_o pastor_n or_o some_o other_o act_n of_o the_o key_n simple_o necessary_a hic_fw-la &_o nunc_fw-la and_o this_o power_n say_v he_o be_v virtual_a not_o formal_a now_o to_o say_v they_o have_v this_o power_n neither_o formal_o nor_o virtual_o and_o yet_o to_o say_v they_o have_v this_o power_n virtual_o though_o not_o formal_o what_o be_v it_o but_o a_o apparent_a contradiction_n but_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a that_o the_o people_n have_v not_o this_o power_n either_o formal_o or_o virtual_o yet_o mr._n ball_n and_o mr._n baiâ—s_v afore_o he_o do_v tell_v we_o that_o ministerial_o they_o may_v give_v what_o they_o never_o have_v viz._n as_o minister_a to_o he_o who_o have_v power_n and_o virtue_n of_o derive_v it_o as_o a_o man_n not_o 〈◊〉_d a_o penny_n of_o his_o own_o may_v give_v a_o 100_o l._n if_o the_o king_n make_v he_o his_o almoner_n thus_o the_o church_n derive_v aâ—_n take_v the_o person_n who_o christ_n describe_v and_o out_o of_o power_n will_v â—ave_n place_v in_o this_o or_o that_o office_n in_o his_o church_n the_o power_n of_o the_o imperial_a dignity_n be_v not_o in_o the_o elector_n of_o the_o emperor_n nor_o the_o power_n of_o that_o office_n and_o authority_n whereunto_o a_o minister_n be_v elect_v in_o the_o church_n who_o choose_v he_o to_o that_o office_n ball_n trial_n of_o separate_a pag._n 239_o 240._o pag._n 494_o 495._o people_n may_v as_o the_o sheep_n of_o christ_n discern_v his_o voice_n joh._n 10._o and_o so_o have_v a_o power_n of_o election_n of_o their_o own_o pastor_n nor_o do_v this_o
proper_o find_v in_o such_o assembly_n i_o meâ—ne_v in_o general_a council_n unto_o who_o as_o have_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n there_o must_v be_v no_o appeal_n at_o all_o to_o conclude_v this_o chapter_n when_o we_o do_v inquire_v about_o power_n of_o appeal_n and_o unto_o what_o court_v appeal_n must_v be_v bring_v our_o way_n be_v not_o to_o seek_v for_o such_o â—_z as_o can_v err_v for_o such_o we_o shall_v never_o find_v nor_o for_o such_o as_o we_o think_v will_n more_o seldom_o err_v as_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v have_v it_o for_o that_o rule_n be_v also_o subject_a to_o much_o uncertainty_n and_o exception_n as_o have_v be_v already_o declare_v but_o the_o best_a way_n be_v to_o inquire_v where_o the_o lord_n jesus_n have_v place_v the_o power_n of_o the_o last_o and_o final_a censure_v and_o determine_v of_o cause_n and_o when_o that_o be_v find_v therewith_o to_o rest_v content_v and_o as_o for_o synod_n and_o council_n it_o be_v neither_o their_z not_o err_v nor_o their_o seldom_o err_a that_o can_v be_v a_o sufficient_a argument_n to_o place_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o unless_o the_o lord_n jesus_n have_v so_o appoint_v and_o ordain_v which_o yet_o do_v not_o appear_v and_o so_o much_o for_o this_o first_o place_n wherein_o our_o brother_n deal_v against_o the_o answer_n chap._n ii_o of_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n to_o give_v advice_n and_o counsel_n and_o whether_o from_o thence_o it_o do_v follow_v that_o they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v the_o next_o place_n wherein_o i_o find_v this_o learned_a author_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o his_o page_n 381._o where_o have_v in_o the_o close_a of_o a_o 4_o the_o objection_n in_o the_o precedent_a page_n bring_v in_o these_o word_n viz._n a_o synod_n in_o dogmatic_a power_n arise_v no_o high_a than_o this_o viz._n a_o man_n or_o a_o single_a congregation_n as_o that_o a_o divine_a institution_n do_v fall_v upon_o it_o among_o other_o thing_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o objection_n he_o say_v thus_o viz._n i_o will_v know_v if_o a_o synod_n dogmatic_a power_n be_v above_o the_o power_n of_o single_a congregation_n i_o think_v say_v he_o it_o be_v not_o by_o our_o brethren_n tenant_n for_o they_o say_v express_o that_o every_o particular_a church_n have_v right_a jus_o to_o decide_v dogmatic_a point_n this_o right_a the_o church_n of_o antioch_n have_v act._n 15_o anâ—_n labour_v to_o end_v that_o controversy_n within_o herself_o which_o show_v that_o they_o have_v right_o anâ—_n power_n but_o they_o have_v not_o ability_n and_o therefore_o in_o that_o case_n they_o seek_v for_o counsel_n light_n and_o advise_v from_o other_o church_n and_o then_o among_o other_o place_n for_o proof_n that_o this_o be_v our_o tenent_n he_o allege_v in_o his_o margin_n my_o name_n and_o mr._n tompsonâ—_n in_o the_o answer_n to_o mr._n herle_v chap._n 2._o and_o after_o the_o word_n above_o rehearse_v and_o some_o other_o to_o the_o like_a purpose_n he_o infer_v thus_o hence_o say_v he_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v answ_n to_o omit_v at_o least_o for_o this_o time_n the_o other_o place_n allege_v in_o his_o margin_n and_o not_o to_o examine_v how_o far_o his_o answer_n reach_v to_o satisfy_v the_o objection_n as_o himself_o have_v propound_v it_o i_o will_v only_o consider_v of_o such_o thing_n as_o do_v direct_o concern_v the_o answer_n for_o that_o be_v the_o scope_n â—ayme_v at_o and_o i_o endeavour_v to_o keep_v close_o thereto_o first_o therefore_o i_o have_v this_o to_o say_v that_o for_o the_o dogmatic_a power_n of_o synod_n above_o congregation_n for_o the_o right_n and_o power_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n in_o particular_a and_o for_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n to_o be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v there_o be_v not_o in_o the_o chapter_n allege_v so_o much_o as_o one_o word_n about_o any_o one_o of_o those_o 〈◊〉_d either_o one_o way_n or_o another_o so_o that_o i_o can_v but_o marvel_v why_o this_o reverend_a brother_n shall_v allege_v that_o chapter_n for_o such_o a_o purpose_n 2._o although_o in_o another_o place_n of_o the_o answer_n viz._n page_n 4â—_n there_o be_v word_n to_o the_o like_a purpose_n with_o those_o which_o our_o author_n here_o set_v down_o concern_v antioch_n yet_o for_o the_o conclusion_n and_o consequence_n which_o he_o will_v thence_o infer_v viz._n that_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n as_o there_o be_v nothing_o say_v â—_o the_o chapter_n by_o he_o allege_v that_o look_v that_o way_n so_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o page_n or_o chapter_n where_o aâ—tioch_n be_v speak_v of_o nor_o any_o where_o else_o in_o all_o thâ—_n book_n 〈◊〉_d as_o i_o do_v remember_v that_o can_v any_o way_n serve_v for_o the_o prove_v of_o such_o a_o conclusion_n and_o tenant_n to_o be_v we_o the_o author_n allege_v no_o place_n that_o have_v such_o a_o conclusion_n in_o it_o either_o in_o direct_a word_n or_o by_o just_a consequence_n and_o i_o profess_v that_o for_o my_o part_n i_o do_v not_o know_v of_o any_o such_o 3._o but_o this_o i_o do_v know_v that_o the_o direct_a contrary_n to_o what_o here_o be_v express_v be_v plain_o to_o be_v find_v in_o another_o place_n of_o the_o say_a answer_n viz._n pag._n 7._o where_o there_o be_v these_o word_n viz._n if_o a_o synod_n may_v bâ—_n call_v a_o church_n and_o if_o power_n by_o disputation_n and_o disquisition_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o then_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o may_v be_v call_v government_n than_o they_o viz._n the_o independent_n as_o they_o be_v call_v do_v admit_v a_o synod_n to_o be_v a_o govern_n church_n for_o the_o power_n here_o mention_v they_o do_v allow_v unto_o synod_n now_o the_o power_n here_o mention_v be_v as_o we_o see_v not_o only_o a_o power_n by_o disputation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n but_o also_o a_o power_n to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o they_o allow_v this_o power_n unto_o synod_n as_o they_o do_v exprest_o say_v that_o they_o do_v i_o know_v not_o why_o our_o brother_n shall_v say_v that_o they_o allow_v unto_o synod_n only_o a_o power_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n for_o power_n to_o command_v obedience_n and_o power_n only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n i_o suppose_v be_v not_o the_o same_o and_o if_o they_o be_v not_o i_o know_v not_o how_o this_o report_n in_o this_o particular_a can_v be_v make_v good_a to_o i_o it_o seem_v apparent_a and_o undeniable_a that_o they_o who_o have_v power_n to_o command_v obedience_n have_v more_o then_o only_o a_o power_n to_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o they_o who_o have_v only_o this_o latter_a have_v no_o power_n of_o the_o â—ormeâ—_n at_o all_o even_o interiour_o as_o naaman_n servant_n 2_o king_n 5._o have_v power_n to_o counsel_n and_o advise_v their_o master_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v their_o master_n to_o yield_v obedience_n 4_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a which_o i_o deny_v not_o that_o the_o answer_n in_o another_o place_n â—hough_o not_o in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v do_v say_v that_o aâ—tioch_n have_v right_a to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n have_v serve_v thereto_o and_o that_o by_o reason_n of_o distension_n and_o through_o want_n of_o light_n they_o be_v force_v to_o send_v out_o to_o â—â—rusalem_fw-la for_o help_n must_v it_o needs_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o his_o assembly_n at_o jerusalem_n have_v no_o more_o power_n but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v which_o be_v the_o conclusion_n which_o he_o endeavour_v to_o draw_v â—â—om_n that_o which_o be_v say_v concern_v antioch_n i_o â—â—â—ceive_v there_o be_v no_o necessity_n at_o all_o of_o such_o a_o consequence_n for_o whence_o must_v the_o same_o 〈◊〉_d i_o suppose_v from_o one_o of_o these_o two_o either_o from_o this_o that_o antioch_n be_v suppose_v and_o say_v to_o have_v have_v right_o within_o herself_o or_o else_o from_o this_o that_o jerusalem_n give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v any_o other_o colour_n for_o conclude_v such_o a_o conseptionce_n as_o be_v in_o question_n the_o answer_n afford_v none_o that_o i_o know_v of_o 〈◊〉_d for_o these_o two_o particular_n here_o mention_v they_o be_v both_o insufficient_a for_o such_o 〈◊〉_d purpose_n for_o what_o shall_v hinder_v but_o there_o be_v more_o power_n in_o the_o synod_n of_o â—erusalem_fw-la towards_o they_o of_o antioch_n then_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v even_o power_n to_o command_v they_o to_o do_v what_o be_v their_o duty_n though_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o end_v the_o matter_n themselves_o if_o ability_n serve_v thereto_o do_v right_a in_o one_o person_n or_o assembly_n
mr._n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o and_o chap._n 1._o page_n 9_o of_o the_o answer_n he_o say_v we_o there_o teach_v that_o there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o clear_n truth_n dogmatical_o &_o that_o ultimate_o where_o the_o controversy_n be_v end_v but_o he_o say_v we_o will_v have_v this_o vltimate_a power_n not_o in_o a_o synod_n only_o but_o also_o in_o a_o congregation_n and_o then_o no_o answer_v three_o thing_n which_o there_o ensue_v answ_n our_o word_n be_v these_o by_o power_n of_o decree_n we_o understand_v power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n dogmatical_o for_o the_o word_n translate_v decree_n be_v dogmata_fw-la in_o the_o original_a act._n 16._o 4._o and_o this_o power_n we_o confess_v be_v in_o a_o synod_n though_o not_o all_o in_o a_o synod_n alone_o but_o also_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n now_o these_o bring_v our_o word_n if_o therefore_o this_o reverend_a brother_n will_v overthrow_v our_o tenent_n in_o this_o particular_a he_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o there_o be_v not_o any_o power_n as_o all_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n dogmatical_o this_o indeed_o have_v be_v direct_o contrary_a to_o what_o we_o teach_v but_o this_o be_v neither_o prove_v nor_o once_o attempt_v to_o prove_v and_o therefore_o our_o tenent_n herein_o do_v yet_o stand_v good_a for_o any_o thing_n he_o have_v say_v to_o the_o contrary_n and_o no_o marvel_n siâ—h_v the_o express_a word_n of_o the_o text_n do_v witness_v that_o every_o bishop_n have_v power_n and_o be_v boand_v by_o his_o office_n and_o duty_n by_o sound_a doctrine_n both_o to_o exhort_v and_o convince_v gainsayet_n tit._n 1._o 9_o and_o according_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n do_v labour_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o controversy_n about_o circumcision_n and_o have_v much_o disputation_n about_o it_o among_o themselves_o afore_o there_o be_v any_o speech_n of_o send_v to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v act._n 15._o 2._o which_o show_v that_o they_o have_v power_n or_o right_a to_o have_v clear_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n have_v serve_v or_o else_o this_o endeavour_n have_v be_v sinful_a as_o be_v a_o attempt_v to_o do_v that_o whereto_o they_o have_v no_o right_n so_o that_o for_o aught_o we_o yet_o so_o the_o power_n that_o we_o speak_v of_o and_o which_o we_o hold_v to_o be_v in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o congregation_n be_v there_o indeed_o by_o the_o appointment_n of_o the_o lord_n but_o let_v we_o hear_v master_n rutherford_n answer_v first_o say_v he_o they_o seem_v to_o make_v this_o dogmatic_a power_n a_o church_n power_n and_o the_o exercise_n thereof_o formal_o a_o act_n of_o church_n government_n and_o so_o it_o must_v be_v church_n power_n and_o church_n government_n in_o the_o synod_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o congregation_n answ_n whence_o do_v it_o seem_v that_o we_o do_v so_o make_v it_o be_v there_o any_o such_o word_n as_o here_o he_o set_v down_o or_o any_o word_n equivalent_a thereto_o or_o do_v the_o place_n make_v any_o mention_n of_o church-power_n and_o church_n government_n at_o all_o or_o be_v there_o so_o much_o as_o one_o word_n that_o look_v that_o way_n if_o there_o be_v let_v our_o brother_n say_v that_o we_o seem_v to_o â—each_v as_o he_o do_v report_n but_o if_o there_o be_v not_o we_o be_v sorry_a he_o shall_v report_v we_o to_o teach_v oâ—_n seem_v to_o teach_v that_o which_o to_o our_o remembrance_n we_o never_o say_v nor_o think_v and_o sure_o it_o be_v we_o have_v express_o say_v the_o direct_a contrary_n in_o page_n 7_o the_o page_n next_o save_v one_o afore_o this_o which_o here_o he_o be_v deal_v against_o where_o we_o have_v these_o word_n it_o seem_v to_o we_o say_v we_o that_o this_o power_n viz._n by_o disquisition_n and_o disputation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o then_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o be_v not_o proper_o a_o power_n and_o exercise_v of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n but_o a_o power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o so_o a_o synod_n be_v rather_o a_o teach_n then_o a_o govern_v church_n these_o be_v our_o word_n in_o the_o page_n afore_o allege_a wherein_o we_o plain_o express_v what_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n seem_v unto_o we_o to_o be_v even_o the_o direct_a contrary_a to_o that_o which_o he_o say_v we_o seem_v to_o make_v it_o we_o on_o the_o one_o side_n affirm_v and_o express_v that_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n be_v no_o power_n of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n but_o a_o power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o he_o on_o the_o other_o side_n report_v that_o we_o seem_v to_o make_v the_o exercise_n of_o dogmatic_a power_n to_o be_v formal_o a_o act_n of_o church-government_n and_o so_o to_o place_v church-government_n in_o the_o synod_n in_o which_o report_n we_o must_v needs_o say_v we_o be_v plain_o misreported_n his_o second_o answer_n be_v this_o the_o last_o period_n and_o conclusion_n of_o the_o controversy_n can_v be_v both_o in_o the_o congregation_n by_o right_a only_o and_o in_o the_o synod_n by_o right_a only_o for_o two_o last_o power_n can_v be_v proper_o in_o two_o subordinate_a judicature_n answ_n this_o be_v very_o true_a but_o it_o touch_v not_o we_o at_o all_o for_o we_o never_o say_v the_o last_o period_n of_o the_o controversy_n be_v both_o in_o the_o congregation_n only_o and_o in_o the_o synod_n only_o if_o we_o have_v so_o say_v let_v the_o place_n be_v produce_v where_o we_o have_v say_v it_o for_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v do_v afford_v we_o no_o such_o thing_n nor_o any_o place_n else_o that_o we_o know_v of_o all_o that_o the_o place_n afford_v concern_v this_o point_n be_v only_o this_o that_o there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o clear_n the_o truth_n dogmatical_o in_o a_o synod_n though_o not_o in_o a_o synod_n only_o but_o also_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o this_o doctrine_n i_o hope_v our_o brother_n will_v not_o deny_v but_o whether_o this_o power_n be_v last_o in_o the_o synod_n or_o in_o the_o congregationall_a presbytery_n of_o this_o we_o do_v not_o speak_v at_o all_o much_o less_o do_v we_o say_v as_o he_o do_v apprehend_v and_o report_v that_o this_o power_n be_v both_o last_o in_o the_o synod_n and_o last_o in_o the_o congregation_n too_o wherefore_o our_o defence_n in_o this_o particular_a must_v needs_o be_v this_o that_o what_o here_o he_o confute_v to_o be_v out_v be_v such_o a_o thing_n as_o never_o fall_v from_o our_o mouth_n or_o pen_n nor_o for_o aught_o we_o know_v do_v never_o enter_v into_o our_o thought_n three_o he_o say_v if_o a_o controversy_n concern_v many_o congregation_n as_o this_o do_v act._n 15._o i_o see_v not_o how_o a_o congregation_n except_o they_o transgress_v their_o line_n can_v final_o determine_v it_o answ_n neither_o do_v this_o touch_v we_o except_o we_o have_v say_v that_o a_o congregation_n may_v final_o determine_v controversy_n which_o concern_v many_o church_n which_o yet_o we_o have_v not_o say_v as_o for_o that_o controversy_n act._n 15._o it_o be_v plain_a from_o verse_n 2_o that_o antioch_n do_v endeavour_v to_o have_v end_v it_o among_o themselves_o so_o far_o as_o they_o be_v trouble_v therewith_o for_o some_o teach_n that_o corrupt_a doctrine_n among_o they_o they_o have_v much_o disputation_n about_o the_o point_n afore_o they_o determine_v to_o send_v out_o for_o help_v elsewhere_o now_o to_o what_o end_n be_v thus_o much_o disputation_n if_o they_o have_v no_o right_a to_o determine_v the_o matter_n may_v they_o not_o better_o have_v spare_v their_o pain_n or_o do_v they_o not_o transgress_v their_o line_n in_o attempt_v what_o they_o do_v attempt_v sure_o it_o seem_v they_o do_v if_o they_o have_v not_o right_a to_o determine_v the_o matter_n but_o for_o our_o part_n since_o we_o do_v not_o find_v they_o in_o the_o least_o reprove_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n for_o this_o attempt_n therefore_o we_o can_v but_o think_v they_o do_v well_o therein_o and_o thereupon_o it_o follow_v that_o if_o antioch_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n as_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o it_o be_v from_o act._n 14._o 27._o either_o this_o controversy_n do_v trouble_v no_o church_n but_o antioch_n only_o or_o else_o when_o a_o controversy_n or_o corrupt_a opinion_n do_v trouble_v many_o church_n one_o of_o they_o may_v lawful_o determine_v and_o end_v it_o so_o far_o at_o it_o concern_v themselves_o chap._n v._n again_o of_o that_o assembly_n act._n 15._o whether_o their_o rebuke_v the_o false_a teacher_n do_v prove_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o excommunication_n in_o synod_n and_o whether_o preach_v do_v prove_v the_o assembly_n where_o it_o be_v to_o be_v a_o church_n the_o new_a place_n where_o i_o find_v he_o except_v
answer_n be_v whole_o take_v up_o and_o spend_v in_o two_o other_o thing_n the_o objection_n which_o he_o propose_v as_o we_o be_v whole_o leave_v untouched_a those_o two_o thing_n be_v these_o the_o one_o a_o answer_n to_o another_o passage_n of_o we_o in_o another_o place_n of_o the_o answer_n the_o other_o a_o answer_n to_o the_o last_o part_n of_o his_o objection_n which_o himself_o do_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v the_o say_n of_o other_o and_o not_o we_o and_o therefore_o he_o bring_v it_o in_o thus_o viz._n other_o say_v because_o there_o be_v a_o representative_a worship_n etc._n etc._n by_o those_o word_n other_o say_v plain_o declare_v that_o what_o he_o thus_o express_v proceed_v not_o from_o we_o but_o from_o other_o and_o so_o though_o he_o return_v answer_v to_o this_o say_n of_o other_o and_o to_o another_o say_n of_o we_o which_o we_o have_v write_v elsewhore_n yet_o for_o this_o of_o we_o which_o he_o propose_v in_o this_o hâ—s_n objection_n i_o find_v no_o answer_n thereto_o at_o all_o and_o therefore_o i_o think_v the_o thing_n remain_v as_o it_o be_v unless_o we_o shall_v take_v his_o mere_a propose_v of_o it_o for_o a_o satisfy_a answer_n which_o we_o see_v no_o reason_n to_o do_v nevertheless_o though_o he_o turn_v away_o from_o this_o passage_n of_o we_o without_o return_v any_o answer_n thereto_o yet_o there_o be_v another_o which_o he_o apply_v himself_o more_o direct_o against_o and_o therefore_o to_o this_o sixteen_o objection_n he_o beg_v his_o answer_n thus_o sure_o the_o aforesaid_a reverend_a brethren_n of_o new-england_n have_v these_o word_n but_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n be_v not_o proper_o a_o power_n and_o exercise_v of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n but_o a_o power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o so_o a_o synod_n be_v rather_o a_o teach_v then_o a_o govern_v church_n from_o whence_o say_v he_o i_o infer_v that_o our_o brethren_n can_v deny_v a_o power_n of_o govern_v to_o a_o synod_n but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o proper_a govern_n as_o excommunication_n and_o ordination_n perform_v in_o their_o congregation_n but_o say_v i_o it_o be_v more_o proper_o govern_v as_o to_o make_v law_n and_o rule_n of_o govern_v be_v a_o more_o noble_a eminent_a and_o high_a act_n of_o govern_v as_o be_v evident_a in_o the_o king_n and_o his_o parliament_n than_o the_o execution_n of_o â—hese_n law_n and_o rule_n answ_n so_o then_o thâ—se_a former_a word_n of_o we_o propose_v in_o the_o objection_n be_v whole_o forsake_v and_o leave_v and_o instead_o of_o answer_v they_o he_o fall_v as_o we_o set_v upon_o other_o word_n which_o we_o have_v write_v elsewhere_o and_o apply_v himself_o to_o deal_v against_o those_o other_o by_o which_o deal_v the_o considerate_a reader_n may_v judge_v whether_o the_o former_a word_n be_v thus_o handsome_o forsake_v and_o leave_v do_v not_o still_o remain_v in_o their_o strength_n and_o whether_o it_o have_v not_o be_v as_o good_a never_o to_o have_v propose_v they_o at_o all_o in_o his_o objection_n as_o have_v propose_v they_o to_o turn_v away_o direct_o and_o immediate_o from_o they_o unto_o other_o matter_n without_o return_v one_o word_n of_o answer_n to_o the_o former_a the_o wise_a in_o heart_n may_v consider_v what_o this_o do_v import_n but_o such_o he_o be_v please_v to_o acquit_v the_o former_a and_o to_o apply_v himself_o to_o the_o other_o let_v we_o therefore_o leave_v the_o former_a in_o its_o strength_n and_o unshaken_a and_o consider_v of_o what_o he_o say_v in_o this_o other_o wherein_o when_o he_o speak_v of_o make_v law_n and_o rule_n of_o govern_v either_o he_o meâ—nes_n this_o make_v law_n and_o rule_n proper_o so_o call_v or_o else_o he_o mean_v it_o only_o of_o a_o ministerial_a power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o law_n and_o rule_n of_o christ_n and_o in_o his_o name_n to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o and_o it_o seem_v by_o the_o instance_n which_o he_o give_v of_o the_o king_n and_o his_o parliament_n that_o he_o intend_v the_o former_a sense_n and_o if_o so_o than_o the_o answer_n be_v that_o this_o noble_a eminent_n and_o high_a act_n of_o govern_v as_o he_o call_v it_o do_v not_o belong_v to_o any_o synod_n upon_o earth_n but_o only_o to_o the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n in_o heaven_n the_o scripture_n abundant_o witness_v that_o he_o only_o be_v the_o lord_n and_o law_n giver_n to_o his_o church_n lâ—â—_n 4._o 12._o isa_n 33._o 22._o for_o the_o clear_n of_o which_o point_n much_o need_v not_o to_o be_v say_v consider_v that_o this_o learned_a brother_n himself_o do_v elsewhere_o direct_o and_o in_o express_a term_n coâ—fesse_v as_o much_o as_o we_o desire_v in_o this_o matter_n for_o in_o one_o place_n speak_v in_o one_o place_n of_o a_o power_n to_o prescribe_v rule_n and_o law_n he_o do_v not_o only_o distinguish_v they_o from_o law_n proper_o so_o call_v by_o the_o word_n directive_n call_v they_o directive_n law_n but_o also_o for_o further_o explain_v his_o mind_n annex_v these_o word_n they_o be_v not_o proper_o law_n which_o the_o church_n prescribe_v christ_n be_v the_o only_a lawgiver_n due_a right_n page_n 395._o and_o in_o the_o page_n follow_v speak_v of_o a_o society_n or_o a_o synod_n power_n of_o make_v law_n he_o add_v for_o explanation_n thus_o i_o take_v not_o here_o law_n for_o law_n proper_o so_o call_v but_o for_o ministerial_a directory_n have_v ecclesiastical_a authority_n so_o then_o the_o church_n or_o the_o synod_n have_v no_o power_n at_o all_o to_o make_v law_n proper_o so_o call_v for_o christ_n â—s_v the_o only_a law_n giver_n and_o if_o so_o than_o the_o govern_v power_n of_o synod_n which_o our_o brother_n will_v prove_v by_o this_o noble_a and_o eminent_a and_o high_a power_n of_o make_v law_n be_v not_o prove_v thereby_o at_o all_o in_o as_o much_o as_o this_o noble_a and_o eminent_a power_n of_o make_v law_n do_v not_o belong_v to_o any_o synod_n upon_o earth_n but_o to_o christ_n only_o and_o this_o may_v be_v a_o answer_n to_o what_o he_o say_v or_o a_o synod_n power_n to_o make_v law_n it_o law_n be_v take_v in_o their_o proper_a sense_n but_o if_o he_o intend_v not_o this_o sense_n and_o meaning_n in_o the_o place_n we_o be_v speak_v of_o but_o only_o the_o latter_a viz_o that_o synod_n have_v power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o law_n and_o rule_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o than_o i_o confess_v the_o answer_n in_o the_o 7_o the_o page_n thereof_o do_v acknowledge_v such_o power_n to_o belong_v unto_o synod_n but_o how_o this_o can_v prove_v their_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o government_n proper_o so_o call_v which_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v thence_o infer_v we_o for_o our_o part_n do_v not_o yet_o perceive_v for_o the_o power_n here_o describe_v be_v but_o a_o mere_a doctrinal_a power_n and_o we_o have_v give_v sundry_a instance_n in_o the_o answer_n pag._n 43._o 44._o to_o show_v that_o there_o may_v be_v a_o power_n by_o way_n of_o doctrine_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o law_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o where_o yet_o there_o be_v no_o power_n by_o way_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n to_o punish_v the_o breach_n of_o those_o rule_n which_o instance_n this_o reverend_a brother_n do_v not_o satisfy_v at_o all_o and_o therefore_o though_o synod_n have_v power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o law_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o which_o power_n we_o deny_v they_o not_o yet_o that_o which_o he_o from_o thence_o will_v infer_v that_o they_o have_v also_o a_o power_n of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n do_v not_o follow_v from_o thence_o at_o all_o unless_o we_o shall_v say_v that_o doctrine_n and_o discipline_n doctrine_n and_o jurisdiction_n or_o government_n be_v the_o same_o brief_o thus_o a_o power_n of_o make_v law_n proper_o so_o call_v be_v a_o noble_a and_o eminent_a kind_n of_o government_n but_o this_o power_n do_v not_o belong_v unto_o synod_n but_o to_o christ_n a_o power_n of_o clear_n up_o christ_n law_n and_o command_v in_o his_o name_n obedience_n thereunto_o do_v belong_v unto_o synod_n but_o this_o be_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o government_n but_o a_o ministerial_a power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o so_o still_o our_o tenent_n do_v stand_v that_o a_o synod_n if_o it_o may_v be_v call_v a_o church_n be_v rather_o a_o teach_n then_o a_o govern_v church_n second_o say_v our_o author_n our_o brethren_n incline_v to_o make_v a_o synod_n a_o teach_a church_n answ_n we_o never_o yet_o absolute_o yield_v that_o a_o synod_n may_v be_v call_v a_o church_n 〈◊〉_d on_o the_o contrary_a we_o have_v say_v that_o unless_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v that_o in_o scripture_n the_o name_n of_o a_o church_n be_v give_v to_o a_o
congregation_n or_o the_o congregation_n will_v be_v partial_a and_o unjust_a or_o when_o the_o business_n be_v difficile_a and_o intricate_a than_o we_o may_v appeal_v from_o the_o congregation_n else_o we_o may_v not_o these_o thing_n i_o say_v do_v not_o clear_v the_o matter_n at_o all_o because_o still_o the_o question_n remain_v who_o must_v be_v judge_n of_o these_o thing_n whether_o the_o party_n appeal_n or_o the_o congregation_n from_o who_o or_o the_o synod_n to_o who_o the_o appeal_n be_v make_v and_o unless_o this_o be_v determine_v the_o thing_n mention_v allege_v by_o our_o brother_n do_v afford_v we_o small_a help_n in_o the_o matter_n for_o the_o clear_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o what_o we_o say_v in_o the_o answer_n do_v still_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v remain_v sound_n viz._n that_o there_o must_v be_v some_o final_a and_o supreme_a judgement_n that_o controversy_n may_v not_o by_o appeal_n after_o appeal_n be_v spin_v out_o in_o infinitum_fw-la and_o to_o determine_v where_o that_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v be_v the_o main_a question_n which_o unless_o it_o be_v determine_v the_o usefulness_n of_o appeal_n may_v be_v grant_v and_o yet_o we_o shall_v be_v still_o at_o uncertainty_n about_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o as_o much_o to_o seek_v as_o before_o because_o that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v appeal_n till_o you_o come_v to_o the_o high_a be_v one_o thing_n and_o that_o a_o synod_n and_o nâ—t_v the_o congregation_n be_v the_o high_a be_v another_o now_o whether_o our_o brother_n in_o that_o which_o we_o have_v hitherto_o hear_v have_v sufficient_o clear_v it_o unto_o we_o that_o we_o may_v know_v where_o this_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o judicious_a to_o consider_v chap._n viii_o whether_o antioch_n act._n 15._o have_v right_a to_o have_v end_v the_o controversy_n among_o themselves_o if_o they_o have_v be_v able_a and_o whether_o their_o send_n to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v or_o their_o knowledge_n that_o other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a evil_n or_o the_o party_n among_o themselves_o who_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n do_v prove_v the_o contrary_n and_o of_o supremacy_n of_o power_n in_o congregation_n but_o though_o our_o author_n do_v not_o clear_v it_o to_o we_o where_o the_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v yet_o in_o this_o pag_n 423_o and_o 424._o he_o use_v a_o argument_n from_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n act._n 15._o and_o our_o own_o doctrine_n concern_v the_o same_o to_o prove_v that_o it_o do_v not_o lie_v in_o the_o congregation_n which_o argument_n we_o be_v willing_a to_o consider_v his_o word_n be_v those_o that_o supremacy_n of_o power_n shall_v be_v in_o a_o congregation_n without_o any_o power_n of_o appeal_n i_o think_v our_o brethren_n can_v teach_v for_o when_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n can_v judge_v a_o matter_n concern_v the_o necessity_n of_o keep_v moses_n law_n they_o by_o nature_n direction_n act._n 15._o 2._o decree_n to_o send_v paul_n and_o barnabas_n and_o other_o to_o jerusalem_n to_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n as_o to_o a_o high_a judicature_n that_o there_o truth_n may_v be_v determine_v and_o then_o he_o add_v that_o mr._n tompson_n and_o myself_o do_v teach_v that_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n have_v jus_o power_n to_o judge_n and_o determine_v the_o controversy_n but_o because_o of_o the_o difficulty_n have_v not_o light_a to_o judge_v thereof_o allege_v for_o this_o in_o the_o margin_n the_o answer_n chap._n 4._o page_n 42._o ergo_fw-la say_v he_o they_o must_v acknowledge_v appeal_v by_o nature_n light_n warrantable_a as_o well_o as_o we_o answ_n that_o appeal_n be_v warrantable_a and_o warrantable_a by_o nature_n light_n till_o we_o come_v to_o the_o supreme_a judicatorie_a this_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o have_v former_o yield_v no_o less_o but_o for_o that_o our_o brother_n here_o aim_v at_o viz._n appeal_v from_o a_o congregationall_a church_n as_o not_o be_v supreme_a to_o another_o judicatory_a this_o we_o conceive_v be_v not_o prove_v by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n nor_o by_o any_o thing_n that_o we_o have_v write_v concern_v the_o same_o and_o the_o reason_n it_o because_o antioch_n have_v right_a and_o authority_n to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n have_v serve_v thereto_o and_o their_o send_n to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_n may_v argue_v want_n of_o agreement_n or_o imperfection_n of_o light_n but_o argue_v no_o want_n of_o authority_n or_o right_n within_o themselves_o for_o it_o be_v plain_a verse_n 2_o that_o antioch_n do_v endeavour_v to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o and_o have_v much_o disputation_n about_o it_o for_o that_o end_n afore_o there_o be_v any_o speech_n of_o send_v to_o jerusalem_n now_o this_o endeavour_n do_v argue_v their_o right_n for_o otherwise_o it_o have_v be_v sinful_a as_o be_v a_o presume_v to_o do_v that_o which_o do_v not_o belong_v to_o they_o this_o reason_n we_o have_v render_v afore_o in_o the_o place_n which_o our_o author_n allege_v and_o he_o do_v not_o at_o all_o remove_v it_o and_o therefore_o we_o be_v still_o of_o the_o same_o mind_n as_o before_o that_o antioch_n be_v not_o dependent_a upon_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o other_o church_n but_o have_v independent_a power_n within_o themselves_o as_o many_o may_v have_v who_o yet_o need_v the_o help_n of_o light_n from_o other_o for_o their_o direction_n in_o use_v their_o power_n great_a king_n and_o monarch_n have_v receive_v light_n from_o their_o counsellor_n without_o any_o impeachment_n of_o their_o independent_a power_n which_o they_o have_v in_o themselves_o and_o without_o any_o ascribe_v of_o that_o power_n to_o those_o their_o counselor_n as_o we_o say_v in_o the_o place_n allege_v antioch_n may_v send_v to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v and_o yet_o this_o send_v neither_o prove_v right_a of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o who_o be_v send_v unto_o nor_o want_v of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o who_o do_v send_v and_o therefore_o whereas_o our_o brother_n say_v antioch_n because_o of_o the_o difficulty_n of_o the_o controversy_n have_v not_o light_a to_o judge_v thereof_o ergo_fw-la we_o must_v acknowledge_v appeal_v to_o be_v warrantable_a we_o will_v rather_o argue_v thus_o antioch_n want_v light_n ergo_fw-la counsel_n and_o light_n be_v to_o be_v seek_v elsewhere_o and_o thus_o we_o conceive_v the_o inference_n will_v hold_v but_o to_o say_v ergo_fw-la there_o must_v be_v appeal_v from_o the_o congregation_n to_o other_o in_o matter_n of_o jurisdiction_n this_o we_o conceive_v will_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o no_o more_o than_o it_o will_v follow_v king_n or_o other_o supreme_a civil_a ruler_n must_v seek_v light_a and_o direction_n from_o their_o counselor_n ergo_fw-la there_o lie_v a_o appeal_n from_o they_o to_o those_o counselor_n which_o consequence_n none_o will_v maintain_v nor_o affirm_v if_o the_o scripture_n have_v say_v that_o antioch_n do_v never_o attempt_v to_o â—nd_v that_o controversy_n as_o know_v that_o the_o end_n thereof_o belong_v not_o to_o they_o but_o to_o other_o or_o if_o it_o have_v say_v that_o the_o censure_v of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n have_v be_v perform_v by_o they_o of_o jerusalem_n and_o not_o by_o they_o of_o antioch_n as_o not_o belong_v to_o antioch_n but_o to_o they_o of_o jerusalem_n than_o our_o brother_n may_v have_v have_v some_o ground_n from_o antioch_n to_o prove_v the_o necessity_n or_o warrantablenesse_n of_o appeal_n from_o congregationall_a church_n to_o other_o judicatories_n but_o such_o no_o such_o thing_n be_v say_v we_o see_v not_o how_o this_o example_n can_v be_v any_o ground_n for_o the_o establish_n of_o such_o appeal_n or_o the_o take_n away_o from_o congregationall_a church_n their_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o themselves_o especial_o we_o see_v not_o how_o this_o our_o brother_n can_v allege_v the_o same_o for_o such_o a_o purpose_n consider_v what_o himself_o have_v write_v elsewhere_o in_o this_o learned_a treatise_n of_o he_o wherein_o he_o examine_v that_o answer_n of_o we_o two_o passage_n in_o his_o treatise_n i_o propound_v to_o consideration_n which_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o make_v for_o that_o independent_a or_o supreme_a power_n in_o congregation_n which_o here_o he_o be_v dispute_v against_o the_o one_o be_v that_o which_o we_o touch_v before_o in_o his_o page_n 413._o where_o he_o say_v that_o synod_n in_o case_n of_o neglect_n of_o presbyterial_a church_n be_v to_o command_v the_o particular_a church_n who_o it_o concern_v to_o do_v their_o duty_n as_o in_o other_o particular_n there_o name_v so_o in_o excommunication_n of_o offender_n and_o further_o that_o the_o synod_n act._n 15._o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n which_o i_o
punish_v thief_n and_o such_o other_o malefactor_n only_o for_o this_o reason_n because_o to_o their_o knowledge_n other_o corporation_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a lewd_a person_n i_o suppose_v it_o be_v easy_a to_o see_v the_o insufficiency_n and_o invalidity_n of_o such_o consequence_n and_o therefore_o if_o antioch_n do_v know_v that_o other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a offender_n as_o themselves_o be_v trouble_v withal_o this_o need_v not_o to_o hinder_v but_o they_o may_v determine_v question_n that_o arise_v among_o themselves_o and_o may_v censure_v such_o of_o their_o member_n as_o shall_v trouble_v the_o church_n or_o brethren_n therewith_o and_o obstinate_o persist_v in_o so_o do_v this_o be_v consider_v withal_o that_o in_o thus_o do_v they_o do_v not_o go_v beyond_o their_o line_n nor_o meddle_v with_o matter_n any_o far_o but_o as_o they_o be_v within_o their_o compass_n for_o when_o divers_a church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a corruption_n in_o doctrine_n or_o practice_n and_o some_o one_o of_o those_o church_n by_o use_v the_o key_n of_o doctrine_n or_o discipline_n or_o both_o do_v endeavour_v the_o removal_n of_o these_o corruption_n they_o do_v not_o hereby_o attempt_v and_o endeavour_v to_o remove_v they_o out_o of_o other_o church_n which_o may_v be_v a_o appearance_n of_o stretch_v their_o line_n beyond_o their_o compass_n but_o out_o of_o their_o own_o church_n and_o only_o so_o far_o as_o concern_v themselves_o and_o in_o so_o do_v no_o man_n can_v just_o say_v they_o meddle_v further_o than_o their_o power_n do_v reach_v but_o he_o give_v another_o reason_n why_o antioch_n have_v not_o right_a to_o determine_v the_o question_n and_o this_o be_v take_v from_o the_o strong_a party_n that_o be_v in_o antioch_n against_o the_o truth_n which_o be_v such_o as_o that_o they_o oppose_v paul_n and_o barnabas_n concern_v which_o he_o say_v that_o when_o the_o great_a part_n of_o a_o church_n as_o antioch_n be_v against_o the_o truth_n as_o be_v clear_a act._n 15._o 2._o he_o believe_v in_o that_o they_o lose_v their_o jus_o their_o right_n to_o determine_v eatenus_fw-la in_o so_o far_o for_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o ecclesiastical_a right_n and_o power_n to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n but_o only_o for_o truth_n and_o therefore_o in_o this_o appeal_v must_v be_v necessary_a answ_n how_o be_v it_o clear_a that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o church_n at_o antioch_n be_v against_o the_o truth_n the_o text_n do_v not_o say_v so_o much_o but_o only_o this_o that_o certain_a man_n which_o come_v from_o judea_n teach_v the_o brethren_n and_o say_v except_o you_o be_v circumcise_a you_o can_v be_v save_v and_o that_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n have_v no_o small_a dissension_n and_o disputation_n with_o they_o about_o the_o matter_n and_o that_o in_o the_o issue_n they_o determine_v that_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n and_o certain_a other_o shall_v go_v up_o to_o jerusalem_n about_o the_o question_n thus_o much_o the_o scripture_n witness_v act._n 15._o 1_o 2._o but_o whether_o they_o that_o hold_v that_o corrupt_a doctrine_n at_o antioch_n be_v the_o major_a or_o the_o minor_a part_n of_o the_o church_n the_o text_n do_v not_o express_v except_o we_o shall_v say_v that_o where_o a_o false_a doctrine_n be_v teach_v by_o some_o and_o great_o oppose_v and_o dispute_v against_o by_o other_o there_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v that_o the_o great_a part_n be_v taint_v with_o that_o false_a doctrine_n which_o we_o think_v be_v no_o good_a consequence_n and_o therefore_o whereas_o our_o author_n say_v the_o great_a part_n of_o this_o church_n be_v against_o the_o truth_n and_o that_o so_o much_o be_v clear_a from_o verse_n 2._o i_o answer_v first_o that_o i_o do_v not_o perceive_v this_o clearness_n neither_o from_o verse_n 2_o nor_o from_o any_o other_o place_n of_o the_o chapter_n next_o suppose_v this_o be_v clear_a this_o may_v argue_v that_o they_o want_v ability_n and_o light_n to_o end_v the_o matter_n but_o must_v it_o need_v argue_v that_o they_o want_v right_a though_o they_o have_v be_v able_a or_o shall_v we_o say_v that_o they_o who_o want_v ability_n to_o do_v thing_n as_o they_o shall_v be_v do_v do_v therefore_o want_v right_a to_o â—â—alâ—_n in_o they_o at_o all_o i_o conceive_v it_o will_v not_o follow_v and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o this_o right_n in_o church_n be_v natural_a or_o connaturall_a to_o every_o church_n and_o this_o want_n of_o ability_n be_v only_o accidental_a and_o therefore_o this_o latter_a can_v total_o hinder_v the_o former_a that_o light_n of_o government_n be_v natural_a or_o connaturall_a to_o every_o church_n our_o brother_n own_o word_n do_v testify_v page_n 341._o where_o he_o say_v this_o viz._n suppose_v that_o christ_n have_v a_o visible_a church_n it_o be_v moral_a that_o she_o have_v power_n of_o government_n also_o in_o so_o far_o as_o she_o be_v a_o church_n yea_o power_n of_o government_n upon_o this_o supposition_n be_v natural_a or_o rather_o connaturall_a and_o in_o page_n 307_o he_o say_v as_o be_v allege_v before_o that_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n ordinary_a intensive_a be_v as_o perfect_a and_o complete_a in_o one_o single_a congregation_n as_o in_o a_o provincial_n or_o in_o a_o national_n yea_o as_o in_o the_o catholic_a visible_a body_n whereof_o christ_n be_v the_o head_n and_o in_o page_n 383._o he_o say_v that_o to_o a_o congregation_n christ_n have_v give_v by_o a_o immediate_a flux_n from_o himself_o a_o political_a church_n power_n intrinsciâ—ally_o in_o it_o derive_v from_o none_o but_o immediate_o from_o jesus_n christ_n and_o the_o like_a he_o say_v of_o a_o presbyterial_a church_n now_o whether_o antioch_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n as_o we_o hold_v or_o a_o presbyterial_a as_o be_v hold_v by_o this_o our_o brother_n yet_o it_o be_v clear_a by_o those_o word_n of_o his_o here_o allege_a that_o be_v essential_o a_o church_n it_o have_v a_o political_a church_n power_n intrinscical_o within_o itself_o yet_o a_o perfect_a and_o complete_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n yea_o and_o such_o a_o power_n as_o be_v natural_a or_o connaturall_a unto_o she_o as_o she_o be_v a_o church_n but_o now_o the_o light_n of_o knowledge_n whereby_o they_o shall_v be_v enable_v well_o to_o use_v this_o power_n do_v not_o add_v any_o power_n unto_o they_o which_o they_o have_v not_o before_o not_o do_v the_o want_n of_o it_o be_v but_o accidental_a deprive_v they_o of_o that_o power_n which_o be_v intrinscicall_a essential_a and_o connaturall_a unto_o they_o as_o they_o be_v a_o church_n of_o christ_n only_o this_o want_n do_v hinder_v their_o ability_n to_o express_v their_o power_n well_o but_o their_o right_n as_o be_v a_o thing_n connaturall_a do_v still_o remain_v our_o brother_n have_v a_o say_n or_o two_o about_o the_o civil_a power_n which_o by_o proportion_n may_v well_o illustrate_v this_o that_o i_o be_o speak_v okubo_n it_o the_o church-power_n in_o one_o place_n he_o say_v thus_o there_o be_v a_o twofold_a power_n in_o a_o king_n one_o in_o a_o king_n as_o a_o king_n and_o this_o be_v a_o like_a in_o all_o and_o ordinary_a regal_a coactive_a whether_o the_o king_n be_v a_o heathen_a a_o turk_n or_o a_o sound_n believe_v christian_n there_o be_v another_o power_n in_o a_o king_n as_o such_o a_o king_n either_o as_o a_o prophetical_a king_n as_o david_n and_o solomon_n or_o as_o a_o christian_a believe_v king_n and_o of_o this_o latter_a he_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o a_o new_a regal_a power_n but_o potestas_fw-la execuliba_fw-la a_o power_n or_o gracious_a ability_n to_o execute_v the_o kingly_a power_n which_o he_o have_v before_o as_o a_o king_n page_n 387._o etc._n etc._n 388._o â—ow_o why_o may_v it_o not_o be_v say_v in_o like_a sort_n there_o be_v in_o a_o church_n twofold_a power_n one_o in_o a_o church_n as_o it_o be_v a_o church_n and_o this_o be_v a_o like_a in_o all_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n whether_o the_o church_n in_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a question_n have_v light_a to_o discern_v and_o hold_v the_o truth_n or_o otherwise_o another_o in_o a_o church_n as_o it_o be_v sound_a believe_a church_n hold_v the_o truth_n in_o such_o or_o such_o question_n and_o this_o be_v but_o only_o a_o gracious_a ability_n to_o exercise_v the_o power_n which_o they_o have_v before_o not_o add_v to_o they_o any_o new_a power_n at_o all_o again_o in_o his_o page_n 393._o he_o have_v these_o word_n though_o the_o king_n be_v not_o a_o christian_a magistrate_n yet_o have_v he_o a_o kingly_a power_n to_o command_v man_n as_o christian_n and_o it_o be_v by_o accident_n that_o he_o can_v in_o that_o state_n command_v christian_n duty_n and_o service_n to_o christ_n because_o he_o will_v not_o and_o can_v command_v those_o duty_n remain_v ignorant_a of_o christ_n
even_o as_o a_o king_n ignorant_a of_o necessary_a civil_a duty_n can_v command_v they_o not_o because_o he_o want_v kingly_a power_n to_o command_v these_o civil_a thing_n for_o undeniable_o he_o be_v a_o judge_n in_o civil_a thing_n but_o because_o he_o have_v not_o knowledge_n of_o they_o and_o may_v we_o not_o say_v in_o like_a sort_n though_o a_o church_n want_v the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o truth_n in_o some_o particular_a question_n yet_o they_o have_v a_o church_n power_n to_o determine_v such_o question_n &_o to_o command_v obedience_n therein_o and_o it_o be_v by_o accident_n they_o can_v in_o that_o state_n determine_v right_o because_o they_o will_v not_o be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n therein_o not_o because_o they_o want_v church-power_n to_o determine_v such_o matter_n but_o because_o they_o have_v not_o the_o knowledge_n of_o they_o again_o a_o little_a after_o in_o the_o same_o p._n he_o tell_v we_o that_o christianity_n add_v no_o new_a fatherly_a power_n to_o a_o father_n over_o his_o child_n nor_o give_v a_o new_a husband_n right_a to_o the_o husband_n once_o a_o heathen_a over_o his_o wife_n for_o a_o heathen_a father_n be_v as_o essential_o a_o father_n over_o his_o child_n as_o a_o christian_a father_n and_o a_o heathen_a husband_n a_o heathen_a master_n etc._n etc._n be_v all_o as_o essential_o husband_n master_n etc._n etc._n as_o be_v the_o christian_a husband_n master_n etc._n etc._n and_o may_v we_o not_o as_o well_o say_v soundness_n of_o knowledge_n in_o such_o or_o such_o a_o particular_a question_n add_v no_o new_a church_n power_n to_o a_o christian_a church_n over_o their_o own_o member_n nor_o give_v a_o new_a church_n right_a over_o they_o which_o they_o have_v not_o before_o for_o a_o church_n that_o want_v such_o knowledge_n be_v as_o essential_o a_o church_n invest_v with_o church_n power_n over_o her_o member_n as_o be_v another_o church_n for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v the_o case_n be_v alike_o and_o if_o soundness_n of_o knowledge_n do_v not_o give_v to_o a_o church_n their_o church-right_a in_o this_o or_o that_o question_n how_o can_v want_v of_o that_o knowledge_n deprive_v they_o of_o that_o right_a sure_o one_o will_v think_v the_o whole_a substance_n of_o christianity_n may_v do_v as_o much_o for_o the_o add_v of_o kingly_a right_n fatherly_a right_n husband_n right_a etc._n etc._n as_o soundness_n of_o knowledge_n in_o some_o one_o particular_a question_n for_o the_o add_v of_o church_n right_a &_o that_o the_o want_n of_o all_o christianity_n shall_v be_v as_o available_a for_o take_v away_o the_o kingly_a right_n the_o fatherly_a right_n etc._n etc._n as_o the_o want_n of_o knowledge_n in_o one_o particular_a point_n for_o the_o take_z away_o of_o church-right_a and_o since_o we_o have_v our_o brother_n own_o testimony_n clear_a and_o full_a for_o the_o one_o it_o seem_v to_o i_o the_o case_n be_v so_o parallel_a and_o proportionable_a that_o the_o other_o be_v unavoidable_a i_o mean_v thus_o since_o in_o the_o one_o case_n the_o whole_a substance_n of_o christianity_n do_v not_o give_v power_n nor_o the_o want_n thereof_o take_v away_o the_o same_o by_o our_o brother_n own_o teach_n i_o know_v not_o how_o in_o the_o other_o case_n soundness_n of_o knowledge_n in_o one_o particular_a question_n shall_v give_v power_n or_o right_n &_o want_v of_o such_o knowledge_n take_v away_o the_o same_o and_o so_o for_o antioch_n in_o particular_a if_o it_o be_v as_o our_o brother_n suppose_v that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o they_o do_v hold_v against_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o question_n about_o circumcision_n i_o see_v not_o how_o this_o can_v deprive_v they_o of_o their_o church_n right_a which_o they_o have_v before_o as_o for_o our_o brother_n reason_n that_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o ecclesiastical_a right_n and_o power_n to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n but_o only_o for_o the_o truth_n this_o say_n i_o confess_v be_v very_o true_a but_o do_v not_o suffice_v for_o the_o purpose_n for_o which_o he_o bring_v it_o viz._n to_o prove_v that_o antioch_n be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o question_n about_o circumcision_n or_o hold_v against_o the_o truth_n therein_o do_v thereby_o lose_v their_o church_n right_a to_o determine_v for_o if_o this_o reason_n be_v good_a than_o a_o man_n may_v conclude_v against_o that_o power_n in_o heathen_a king_n parent_n and_o husband_n to_o govern_v their_o subject_n child_n and_o wife_n which_o our_o brother_n as_o we_o hear_v afore_o have_v grant_v and_o teach_v for_o suppose_v that_o antioch_n be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o particular_a be_v it_o not_o clear_a that_o the_o king_n parent_n and_o husband_n mention_v be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n in_o many_o more_o matter_n and_o it_o antioch_n do_v hereupon_o loose_v their_o right_n because_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o power_n to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n but_o for_o the_o truth_n how_o will_v it_o be_v avoid_v but_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n â—he_v king_n and_o the_o other_o mention_a must_v likewise_o lose_v their_o right_n to_o govern_v their_o own_o subject_n and_o family_n for_o the_o lord_n give_v no_o right_a i_o hope_v to_o pagan_n against_o the_o truth_n no_o more_o than_o he_o do_v unto_o church_n and_o therefore_o if_o the_o reason_n be_v valid_a and_o strong_a in_o the_o one_o case_n and_o for_o the_o purpose_n for_o which_o our_o brother_n bring_v it_o it_o seem_v to_o be_v as_o strong_a in_o the_o other_o case_n also_o which_o shall_v be_v contrary_a to_o what_o our_o brother_n himself_o do_v teach_v in_o a_o word_n churches_n and_o antioch_n in_o particular_a have_v right_a to_o determine_v question_n and_o they_o ought_v to_o determine_v only_o according_a to_o the_o truth_n they_o have_v formal_o a_o right_a to_o determine_v and_o when_o their_o determination_n be_v according_a to_o truth_n than_o they_o will_v â—ind_v vi_o matâ—â—iâ—_n which_o else_o they_o will_v not_o they_o have_v right_a to_o determine_v in_o fore_n humano_fw-la and_o if_o their_o determination_n be_v for_o matter_n agreeable_a to_o truth_n they_o will_v be_v ratify_v in_o foro_fw-la diuâ—â—o_fw-la but_o not_o else_o now_o our_o brother_n argue_v do_v seem_v to_o confound_v these_o two_o and_o because_o of_o the_o latter_a which_o be_v free_o grant_v he_o will_v conclude_v against_o the_o former_a which_o we_o think_v be_v not_o good_a reason_n but_o on_o the_o contrary_n do_v still_o think_v that_o though_o church_n ought_v to_o give_v out_o no_o determination_n but_o such_o as_o be_v agreeable_a to_o truth_n and_o that_o otherwise_o their_o determination_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o matter_n of_o they_o will_v not_o bind_v before_o god_n yet_o for_o all_o this_o they_o may_v have_v right_a formal_o and_o in_o foro_n humano_fw-la to_o judge_n and_o to_o determine_v of_o such_o thing_n moreover_o if_o this_o be_v grant_v for_o true_a that_o antioch_n when_o they_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n do_v lose_v their_o right_n to_o determine_v controversy_n yet_o we_o be_v not_o hereby_o much_o near_o to_o a_o issue_n unless_o it_o be_v determine_v withal_o who_o must_v be_v judge_n whether_o they_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n or_o no_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o if_o they_o be_v not_o against_o the_o truth_n but_o for_o it_o than_o i_o hope_v it_o will_v be_v grant_v that_o they_o do_v not_o lose_v their_o right_n at_o all_o the_o question_n therefore_o still_o remain_v who_o have_v this_o ministerial_a power_n to_o judge_n whether_o this_o or_o that_o church_n antioch_n or_o any_o other_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n or_o for_o it_o and_o unless_o this_o be_v clear_v we_o be_v but_o where_o we_o be_v before_o but_o to_o draw_v towards_o a_o end_n of_o this_o passage_n about_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n whether_o they_o have_v right_a to_o determine_v controversy_n when_o ability_n fail_v or_o whether_o they_o do_v when_o lose_v that_o right_n i_o will_v here_o transcribe_v a_o few_o word_n of_o our_o brother_n as_o i_o find_v they_o in_o his_o second_o 331._o page_n wherein_o he_o either_o clear_o yield_v the_o cause_n and_o say_v the_o same_o that_o we_o do_v or_o i_o be_o much_o mistake_v the_o word_n be_v these_o there_o be_v a_o difference_n between_o ability_n to_o judge_v and_o right_a or_o power_n to_o judge_v a_o presbyterial_a church_n and_o he_o dispute_v in_o six_o page_n together_o to_o prove_v antioch_n such_o a_o one_o page_n 470._o 471._o etc._n etc._n sequ_o may_v have_v right_a jus_o and_o ecclesiastical_a law_n to_o judge_v of_o a_o point_n to_o the_o judge_v whereof_o they_o want_v ability_n therefore_o de_fw-la facto_fw-la it_o belong_v to_o a_o high_a synod_n where_o more_o learned_a man_n be_v though_o the_o jure_v the_o presbytery_n may_v judge_v it_o these_o word_n i_o wish_v to_o be_v well_o consider_v for_o
reason_n which_o do_v show_v that_o the_o jew_n and_o they_o be_v very_o unlike_a the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cruse_n and_o they_o have_v none_o be_v to_o show_v ourselves_o very_o irrational_a or_o worse_o end_v why_o our_o brother_n shall_v put_v such_o a_o thing_n upon_o we_o we_o be_v no_o way_n guilty_a thereof_o we_o do_v not_o know_v but_o we_o desire_v that_o our_o reason_n may_v be_v apply_v to_o our_o own_o conclusion_n to_o which_o we_o do_v and_o do_v apply_v it_o and_o not_o to_o this_o other_o express_v by_o our_o brother_n which_o indeed_o be_v none_o of_o we_o and_o then_o we_o be_v content_v that_o rational_a and_o judicious_a reader_n may_v judge_v whether_o or_o no_o there_o be_v any_o sufficient_a weight_n therein_o which_o that_o they_o may_v more_o ready_o do_v i_o have_v here_o recollect_v the_o same_o into_o this_o short_a sum_n that_o they_o may_v brief_o behold_v it_o with_o one_o view_n viz_o if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o congregationall_a way_n have_v the_o like_a if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o stand_v judicatory_a always_o in_o readiness_n for_o the_o hear_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o congregationall_a way_n have_v the_o like_a and_o if_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a among_o the_o jew_n be_v very_o far_o remote_a from_o many_o of_o they_o and_o in_o the_o congregationall_a way_n be_v more_o convenient_a and_o near_o at_o hand_n than_o the_o congregationall_a way_n be_v in_o some_o thing_n equal_a to_o the_o jew_n and_o in_o other_o thing_n more_o excellent_a but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a in_o all_o the_o particular_n and_o therefore_o the_o second_o be_v true_a also_o again_o if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n have_v not_o if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o stand_v judicatory_a always_o in_o readiness_n for_o the_o hear_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n have_v not_o and_o if_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a among_o the_o jew_n be_v very_o remote_a from_o many_o of_o they_o and_o synod_n among_o our_o brethren_n be_v the_o same_o than_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n be_v in_o some_o thing_n as_o defective_a as_o the_o jew_n and_o in_o other_o thing_n more_o defective_a than_o they_o but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a in_o all_o the_o particular_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o the_o second_o be_v true_a also_o both_o the_o assumption_n in_o all_o the_o branch_n thereof_o i_o conceive_v be_v clear_o prove_v in_o the_o answer_n in_o the_o page_n which_o our_o brother_n do_v allege_v and_o whether_o the_o consequence_n be_v good_a let_v the_o wise_a judge_n have_v thus_o reduce_v our_o argumentation_n to_o its_o own_o proper_a and_o genuine_a shape_n let_v we_o now_o consider_v of_o mr._n rutherford_n answer_v thereto_o first_o say_v he_o the_o speediness_n of_o end_v controversy_n in_o a_o congregation_n be_v bad_o comprise_v with_o the_o suddenness_n and_o temerity_n of_o deliver_v man_n to_o satan_n upon_o the_o decision_n of_o three_o elder_n without_o so_o much_o as_o ask_v advise_v of_o any_o class_n of_o elder_n and_o with_o decide_v question_n deep_a and_o grave_a which_o concern_v many_o church_n which_o be_v a_o put_n of_o a_o private_a sickle_n in_o a_o common_a and_o public_a harvest_n answ_n if_o advise_v from_o other_o church_n may_v be_v have_v we_o never_o speak_v word_n for_o do_v weighty_a matter_n without_o the_o same_o but_o in_o such_o case_n it_o be_v both_o our_o practice_n and_o advise_v to_o make_v use_n thereof_o and_o therefore_o this_o deliver_v man_n to_o satan_n in_o way_n of_o temerity_n or_o rashness_n touch_v not_o we_o who_o opinion_n and_o practice_n be_v other_o wise_a as_o for_o suddenness_n i_o conceive_v if_o the_o same_o be_v sometime_o accompany_v with_o temerity_n and_o rashness_n and_o so_o worthy_a to_o be_v blame_v yet_o not_o always_o for_o in_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o house_n of_o god_n in_o the_o day_n of_o hezekiah_n it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o thing_n be_v do_v sudden_o 2_o chron._n 29._o 36._o where_o suddenness_n do_v not_o signify_v any_o sinful_a temerity_n or_o râ—shnesle_n but_o contrary_o do_v testify_v god_n great_a goodnesle_n that_o have_v so_o prepare_v the_o people_n to_o so_o good_a a_o work_n for_o this_o cause_n this_o suddenness_n be_v to_o hezekiah_n and_o god_n people_n a_o occasion_n and_o ground_n of_o great_a joy_n and_o gladness_n which_o temerity_n can_v not_o have_v be_v and_o therefore_o suddenness_n and_o temerity_n must_v not_o always_o be_v confound_v and_o couple_v together_o as_o if_o they_o be_v the_o same_o though_o hasty_a deliver_v of_o man_n to_o satan_n without_o due_a consideration_n be_v not_o good_a yet_o overlong_o delay_v of_o due_a proceed_n against_o delinquent_n be_v bad_a also_o for_o the_o holy_a ghost_n tell_v we_o because_o sentence_v against_o a_o evil_a work_n be_v not_o execute_v speedy_o therefore_o the_o heart_n of_o the_o son_n of_o man_n be_v full_o set_v to_o do_v evil_a eccl._n 8._o 11._o for_o which_o cause_n execute_v judgement_n in_o the_o morning_n that_o be_v to_o say_v speedy_o be_v sometime_o express_o require_v jer._n 21._o 12._o which_o be_v speak_v of_o justice_n to_o be_v execute_v by_o civil_a authority_n do_v hold_v by_o proportion_n and_o like_a reason_n in_o ecclesiastical_a censure_n for_o as_o much_o as_o speedinesle_n be_v a_o duty_n and_o delay_n be_v daangerous_a in_o the_o one_o case_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o whereas_o our_o author_n think_v much_o that_o excommunication_n shall_v proceed_v upon_o the_o decision_n of_o three_o elder_n as_o we_o know_v nothing_o but_o a_o congregation_n may_v have_v more_o elder_n than_o the_o three_o if_o god_n provide_v they_o fit_a man_n and_o the_o numerousnesse_n of_o the_o congregation_n so_o require_v in_o which_o case_n our_o author_n say_v nothing_o to_o the_o contrary_a but_o they_o may_v have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v so_o if_o they_o have_v but_o three_o we_o know_v nothing_o in_o this_o but_o they_o may_v have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v notwithstanding_o since_o himself_o teach_v due_a right_n page_n 61._o that_o the_o jew_n have_v their_o congregationall_a church_n as_o we_o have_v and_o have_v their_o meeting_n in_o their_o synagogue_n not_o only_o for_o doctrine_n but_o also_o for_o discipline_n and_o excommunication_n which_o if_o it_o be_v so_o it_o seem_v there_o may_v be_v excommunication_n by_o as_o small_a a_o number_n as_o three_o unless_o it_o can_v appear_v that_o in_o every_o synagogue_n the_o elder_n and_o ruler_n in_o it_o be_v a_o great_a number_n than_o be_v here_o mention_v which_o be_v more_o than_o i_o do_v remember_v to_o be_v express_v in_o scripture_n yea_o and_o further_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o inferior_a judicature_n in_o israel_n have_v power_n of_o life_n and_o death_n page_n 315._o now_o the_o judge_n in_o these_o inferior_a judicature_n though_o they_o must_v never_o be_v under_o that_o number_n of_o three_o yet_o they_o do_v not_o always_o exceed_v the_o same_o for_o aught_o that_o do_v appear_v and_o if_o three_o judge_n have_v power_n of_o life_n and_o death_n why_o may_v not_o a_o congregation_n with_o three_o elder_n have_v power_n of_o excommunication_n moreover_o in_o his_o page_n 454._o he_o give_v we_o these_o word_n for_o a_o proposition_n that_o it_o flow_v connatural_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o church_n to_o exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n to_o which_o those_o word_n do_v also_o agree_v page_n 287._o viz._n the_o power_n and_o right_a to_o discipline_n be_v a_o propriety_n essential_a to_o a_o church_n and_o be_v not_o remove_v from_o it_o till_o god_n remove_v the_o candlestick_n and_o the_o church_n cease_v to_o be_v a_o visible_a church_n and_o in_o page_n 302._o he_o afford_v we_o these_o word_n for_o a_o assumption_n that_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o church_n want_v nothing_o of_o the_o be_v and_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o hence_o the_o conclusion_n be_v obvious_a that_o a_o congregation_n may_v exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o it_o own_o member_n and_o in_o as_o much_o as_o a_o congregation_n in_o which_o be_v but_o three_o elder_n be_v a_o congregation_n it_o follow_v that_o a_o congregation_n in_o which_o be_v but_o three_o elder_n may_v exercise_v such_o jurisdiction_n this_o conclusion_n our_o author_n can_v deny_v in_o as_o much_o as_o it_o necessary_o and_o direct_o follow_v from_o premise_n which_o be_v both_o his_o own_o yea_o in_o his_o page_n 302._o hâ—_n say_v that_o this_o be_v a_o principle_n of_o church_n policy_n that_o every_o politic_a body_n of_o christ_n have_v power_n of_o church_n government_n
within_o itself_o either_o therefore_o a_o congregation_n with_o only_a three_o elder_n be_v no_o politic_a body_n of_o christ_n or_o else_o it_o must_v have_v power_n of_o church_n government_n within_o itself_o beside_o if_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n ordinary_a intensive_a be_v according_a to_o the_o entire_a essence_n of_o a_o ministerial_a church_n be_v as_o complete_a and_o perfect_a in_o one_o single_a congregation_n as_o in_o a_o provincial_n national_n or_o catholic_a church_n as_o our_o author_n say_v it_o be_v p._n 307._o it_o be_v then_o a_o marvel_n why_o such_o a_o congregation_n have_v only_o three_o elder_n may_v not_o have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v last_o his_o word_n be_v express_v page_n 338._o where_o there_o be_v not_o many_o church_n consociate_v than_o ordination_n and_o excommunication_n may_v be_v do_v by_o one_o single_a congregation_n if_o therefore_o a_o congregation_n have_v not_o above_o three_o elder_n yet_o be_v not_o consociate_v with_o other_o church_n it_o may_v lawful_o excommunicate_v by_o his_o own_o grant_n for_o decide_v question_n that_o concern_v many_o church_n if_o they_o decide_v they_o no_o further_o but_o only_o as_o they_o concern_v themselves_o this_o be_v no_o put_v a_o private_a sickle_n in_o a_o common_a and_o public_a harvest_n but_o a_o meddle_v with_o matter_n only_o so_o far_o as_o they_o do_v concern_v themselves_o second_o he_o say_v all_o appeal_n without_o warrant_n from_o christ_n will_n we_o condemn_v as_o the_o abuse_n of_o appeal_v to_o a_o court_n which_o be_v know_v shall_v never_o be_v page_z 425._o answ_n if_o appeal_v without_o warrant_n from_o christ_n will_v be_v condemn_v why_o be_v we_o not_o tell_v what_o appeal_v they_o be_v that_o have_v the_o warrant_v of_o christ_n will_n and_o what_o appeal_v have_v not_o for_o such_o a_o general_a word_n aâ—_n this_o of_o the_o warrant_n of_o christ_n will_n without_o some_o further_a and_o more_o particular_a explication_n do_v leave_v the_o matter_n as_o dark_a as_o it_o be_v before_o if_o the_o meaning_n be_v that_o only_o such_o appeal_v be_v unwarrantable_a as_o be_v make_v to_o a_o court_n which_o be_v know_v shall_v never_o be_v and_o that_o all_o other_o be_v warrantable_a than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o appeal_v to_o general_a counsel_n and_o all_o other_o court_n except_o only_o from_o a_o general_a council_n be_v warrantable_a for_o who_o do_v certain_o know_v that_o a_o general_a council_n will_v never_o be_v and_o so_o by_o this_o mean_v the_o class_n 〈◊〉_d synod_n and_o the_o national_n church_n be_v all_o deprive_v of_o supremacy_n and_o independency_n of_o jurisdiction_n as_o well_o as_o the_o congregation_n three_o he_o say_v antioch_n appeal_v to_o a_o synod_n 200_o mile_n distant_a as_o our_o brethren_n say_v be_v no_o judaize_v but_o that_o which_o paul_n and_o the_o apostle_n be_v guilty_a of_o as_o well_o as_o we_o answ_n whether_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n be_v 200_o mile_n distant_a or_o no_o as_o we_o have_v never_o affirm_v so_o much_o so_o i_o will_v not_o stand_v now_o to_o inquire_v but_o this_o i_o stand_v upon_o that_o no_o scripture_n do_v witness_v that_o antioch_n do_v appeal_v to_o jerusalem_n in_o the_o point_n of_o jurisdiction_n about_o which_o our_o question_n do_v lie_v if_o they_o do_v appeal_v to_o they_o for_o a_o doctrinal_a decision_n or_o determination_n of_o the_o question_n that_o nothing_o hinder_v our_o cause_n who_o do_v not_o deny_v such_o a_o doctrinal_a power_n in_o synod_n but_o their_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v the_o thing_n that_o shall_v be_v prove_v last_o if_o this_o example_n of_o antioch_n do_v prove_v that_o there_o may_v be_v and_o aught_o to_o be_v appeal_n from_o congregation_n to_o synod_n though_o those_o synod_n be_v 200_o mile_n distant_a then_o that_o which_o we_o say_v in_o the_o answer_n be_v here_o confess_v to_o be_v true_a viz._n that_o according_a to_o our_o brethren_n judgement_n the_o state_n of_o the_o church_n in_o point_n of_o discipline_n be_v as_o defective_a and_o burdensome_a in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o gospel_n as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o day_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n for_o as_o then_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a at_o jerusalem_n be_v many_o mile_n distant_a from_o such_o as_o dwell_v in_o the_o further_a part_n of_o the_o holy_a land_n and_o special_o from_o the_o proselyte_n that_o dwell_v in_o other_o country_n so_o here_o our_o author_n seem_v to_o yield_v that_o in_o these_o day_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n there_o must_v or_o may_v be_v appeal_n to_o synod_n though_o they_o be_v 200_o mile_n distant_a i_o hope_v then_o if_o other_o blame_v our_o way_n for_o make_v the_o gospel_n as_o defective_a and_o improvident_a as_o the_o law_n or_o more_o defective_a than_o it_o yet_o this_o our_o brother_n will_v not_o do_v so_o but_o on_o the_o contrary_n will_v acknowledge_v for_o we_o and_o with_o we_o that_o the_o way_n which_o himself_o plead_v for_o be_v more_o just_o culpable_a in_o this_o respect_n four_o he_o say_v matter_n concern_v many_o church_n must_v be_v handle_v by_o many_o answ_n this_o may_v be_v grant_v in_o a_o safe_a sense_n without_o any_o prejudice_n at_o all_o unto_o our_o cause_n for_o we_o be_v well_o content_a that_o so_o far_o as_o they_o concern_v many_o they_o may_v be_v handle_v by_o many_o so_o that_o each_o congregation_n may_v have_v liberty_n to_o deal_v in_o they_o so_o far_o as_o they_o concern_v themselves_o and_o thus_o you_o have_v all_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n have_v bring_v against_o that_o passage_n of_o we_o wherein_o we_o say_v it_o be_v not_o our_o way_n but_o they_o that_o do_v make_v the_o gospel_n more_o defective_a than_o the_o law_n instead_o whereof_o he_o be_v please_v to_o make_v we_o say_v that_o they_o do_v judaize_v but_o for_o eleer_v their_o way_n from_o that_o which_o we_o object_n against_o the_o same_o or_o for_o convince_a out_o way_n to_o be_v guilty_a thereof_o as_o by_o some_o have_v be_v object_v which_o be_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o four_o particular_n of_o his_o answer_n that_o do_v any_o thing_n avail_v to_o either_o of_o these_o for_o if_o a_o rash_a deliver_v of_o man_n to_o satan_n have_v more_o evil_a in_o it_o then_o speedy_a end_n of_o controversy_n have_v good_a if_o appeal_v without_o warrant_n from_o christ_n will_n be_v unlawful_a if_o antioch_n do_v appeal_v to_o a_o synod_n 200_o mile_n distant_a and_o if_o matter_n concern_v many_o church_n must_v be_v end_v by_o many_o which_o four_o particular_n be_v the_o whole_a substance_n of_o his_o answer_n what_o be_v there_o in_o all_o this_o for_o i_o will_v glad_o apply_v his_o answer_n to_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o thing_n in_o question_n what_o be_v there_o i_o say_v in_o all_o this_o that_o 〈◊〉_d convince_v our_o way_n to_o be_v more_o defective_a than_o the_o way_n under_o the_o old_a testament_n or_o that_o do_v clear_v the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n from_o be_v true_o culpable_a thereof_o let_v all_o the_o evil_a that_o can_v be_v find_v in_o rash_a deliver_v man_n to_o satan_n be_v extend_v to_o the_o utmost_a and_o let_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o four_o particular_n be_v grant_v do_v all_o this_o sufficient_o clear_v it_o that_o the_o way_n which_o we_o plead_v for_o be_v more_o defective_a or_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n more_o perfect_a and_o excellent_a than_o the_o way_n that_o be_v use_v under_o the_o law_n if_o they_o do_v not_o amount_v to_o the_o clear_n of_o this_o they_o do_v not_o come_v up_o to_o clear_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n which_o for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v do_v still_o remain_v as_o it_o be_v notwithstanding_o all_o that_o our_o brother_n here_o bring_v chap._n x._o whether_o the_o necessity_n of_o discipline_n be_v great_a than_o of_o sacrament_n and_o whether_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n may_v not_o exercise_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n as_o well_o as_o one_o that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o a_o man_n may_v take_v on_o he_o the_o whole_a ministry_n have_v no_o outward_a call_n thereto_o and_o may_v not_o as_o well_o take_v on_o he_o one_o act_n of_o baptise_v or_o minister_a the_o lord_n supper_n the_o next_o place_n where_o i_o find_v our_o reverend_a brother_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o page_n 453_o 454._o where_o dispute_v that_o there_o be_v a_o presbyterial_a church_n at_o jerusalem_n he_o say_v it_o be_v object_v by_o we_o allege_v the_o answer_n page_n 6._o that_o if_o a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n by_o divine_a institution_n and_o so_o the_o first_o congregation_n as_o jerusalem_n which_o do_v meet_v in_o solomon_n porch_n have_v once_o a_o entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n
respect_n of_o its_o end_n now_o if_o this_o be_v all_o the_o necessity_n that_o be_v in_o discipline_n how_o be_v discipline_n more_o necessary_a than_o sacrament_n for_o may_v not_o as_o much_o be_v say_v of_o they_o as_o here_o be_v say_v of_o discipline_n be_v not_o sacrament_n necessary_a to_o the_o well-being_n of_o the_o church_n as_o be_v command_v in_o the_o word_n as_o well_o as_o discipline_n be_v and_o serve_v for_o excellent_a end_n as_o well_o as_o discipline_n do_v i_o suppose_v it_o will_v nâ—â—_n be_v deny_v and_o therefore_o the_o necessity_n of_o discipline_n above_o sacrament_n do_v not_o yet_o appear_v especial_o if_o that_o be_v consider_v withal_o which_o our_o brother_n teach_v elsewhere_o viz._n in_o his_o second_o p._n 211._o &_o sequ_fw-la where_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o sacrament_n be_v not_o only_o declarative_a sign_n but_o also_o real_a exhibitive_a seal_n of_o grace_n have_v a_o causality_n in_o they_o to_o make_v a_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o and_o so_o excel_v all_o civil_a seal_n which_o do_v add_v no_o new_a land_n to_o the_o owner_n of_o the_o charter_n seal_v therewith_o now_o if_o sacrament_n be_v thus_o excellent_a and_o effectual_a how_o be_v it_o that_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n discipline_n be_v make_v more_o necessary_a than_o they_o for_o a_o great_a elegy_n than_o here_o he_o give_v to_o sacrament_n i_o suppose_v himself_o will_v not_o give_v unto_o discipline_n yea_o in_o p._n 302_o he_o express_o affirm_v that_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v essential_a note_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o of_o discipline_n i_o conceive_v he_o will_v not_o say_v the_o same_o sure_o it_o be_v in_o the_o page_n follow_v distinguish_v betwixt_o note_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v necessary_a adâ—sse_n to_o the_o very_o be_v of_o a_o visible_a church_n and_o such_o as_o be_v necessary_a only_a ad_fw-la bene_fw-la esse_fw-la to_o the_o well-being_n thereof_o he_o express_o make_v discipline_n a_o work_n or_o note_n of_o this_o second_o sort_n and_o as_o we_o hear_v erewhile_o he_o in_o page_n 287_o express_o affirm_v it_o be_v not_o necessary_a to_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v some_o marvel_n why_o now_o 〈◊〉_d make_v discipline_n more_o necessary_a than_o sacrament_n but_o he_o give_v we_o two_o reason_n of_o this_o great_a necessity_n of_o discipline_n then_o of_o sacrament_n first_o that_o entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n in_o a_o congregation_n that_o want_v neighbour_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a second_o that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o moral_a necessity_n of_o sacrament_n as_o there_o be_v of_o discipline_n page_n 455._o concern_v the_o former_a his_o word_n be_v these_o viz._n that_o the_o church_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o may_v possible_o be_v extraordinary_a but_o that_o in_o such_o a_o case_n they_o have_v entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n whole_a and_o entire_a within_o themselves_o to_o excommunicate_v scandalous_a person_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a wherein_o first_o of_o all_o i_o observe_v a_o difference_n between_o he_o and_o our_o reverend_a brother_n mr._n herle_n who_o have_v grant_v that_o where_o there_o be_v no_o consociation_n or_o neighbourhood_n of_o congregation_n there_o a_o single_a congregation_n must_v not_o be_v deny_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n do_v present_o add_v that_o the_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a and_o so_o fall_v not_o within_o the_o compass_n of_o the_o question_n of_o the_o ordinary_a rule_n of_o church-government_n independency_n of_o church_n p._n 2._o plain_o confess_v that_o the_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a whereas_o mr._n rutherford_n here_o say_v it_o be_v not_o second_o as_o he_o express_o differ_v from_o mr._n herle_n so_o it_o be_v considerable_a whether_o his_o word_n do_v well_o agree_v with_o themselves_o for_o say_v he_o that_o the_o church_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o may_v be_v extraordinary_a but_o that_o in_o such_o case_n they_o have_v entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n of_o discipline_n within_o themselves_o to_o excommunicate_v scandalous_a person_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a which_o say_v needs_o good_a explication_n for_o it_o seem_v hard_a to_o conceive_v how_o the_o power_n and_o action_n of_o any_o subject_n or_o efficient_a shall_v be_v more_o usual_a and_o ordinary_a then_o it_o be_v very_o be_v and_o subsistence_n which_o yet_o must_v needs_o be_v if_o this_o stand_v good_a that_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n be_v extraordinary_a and_o yet_o the_o power_n of_o such_o a_o church_n to_o excommunicate_v be_v usual_a and_o ordinary_a three_o if_o their_o power_n of_o discipline_n yea_o entire_a power_n be_v in_o the_o case_n express_v orâ—â—â—ary_a shall_v we_o then_o say_v that_o if_o the_o case_n â—e_v otherwise_o so_o that_o a_o church_n be_v not_o alone_o but_o have_v neighbour_n entireness_n of_o power_n in_o such_o a_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a it_o seem_v aâ—_n must_v â—ay_n 〈◊〉_d or_o else_o we_o must_v say_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o both_o case_n be_v ordinary_a if_o this_o latter_a be_v say_v it_o be_v as_o much_o as_o we_o desire_v for_o than_o i_o hope_v it_o must_v not_o be_v a_o small_a 〈◊〉_d ordinary_a matter_n that_o must_v hinder_v a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n from_o exercise_v 〈…〉_z â—â—â—â—diction_n within_o themselves_o no_o more_o than_o a_o church_n that_o live_v alone_o 〈…〉_z power_n be_v ordinary_a in_o they_o both_o for_o if_o it_o be_v so_o in_o they_o both_o in_o the_o one_o as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o i_o know_v not_o why_o any_o small_a or_o ordinary_a matter_n shall_v hinder_v the_o one_o church_n any_o more_o than_o the_o other_o from_o the_o use_n and_o exercise_v of_o such_o entire_a power_n if_o we_o say_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v extraordinary_a though_o in_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o it_o be_v ordinary_a beside_o that_o such_o a_o say_n sound_v harsh_o and_o seem_v very_o improbable_a we_o shall_v by_o this_o mean_n make_v case_n extraordinary_a to_o be_v very_o frequent_a &_o usual_a in_o as_o much_o as_o all_o man_n know_v it_o be_v very_o usual_a for_o congregationall_a church_n to_o have_v neighbour_n and_o so_o if_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v extraordinary_a it_o will_v follow_v that_o extraorninary_a power_n be_v very_o usual_a and_o frequent_a so_o that_o inconvenience_n on_o each_o side_n do_v seem_v inevitable_o to_o follow_v against_o our_o brother_n cause_n upon_o this_o which_o here_o he_o affirm_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o be_v not_o extraordinary_a but_o let_v we_o here_o his_o reason_n in_o the_o subsequent_a word_n why_o this_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o be_v not_o extraordinary_a for_o it_o flow_v say_v he_o continual_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n and_o i_o suppose_v he_o must_v mean_v this_o of_o jurisdiction_n entire_a and_o complete_a for_o of_o this_o be_v the_o question_n and_o a_o few_o line_n afore_o he_o express_o call_v it_o entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n whole_a and_o entire_a within_o themselves_o now_o if_o this_o be_v true_a which_o here_o be_v say_v as_o for_o my_o part_n i_o conceive_v no_o other_o of_o it_o that_o it_o flow_v connatural_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o exercise_v entire_a jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o a_o church_n that_o have_v none_o must_v have_v this_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n since_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v agree_v to_o the_o one_o as_o well_o as_o to_o the_o other_o to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o to_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o our_o author_n tell_v we_o page_n 302._o that_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n be_v a_o church_n proper_o so_o call_v and_o have_v the_o essential_a note_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n agree_v to_o it_o and_o want_v nothing_o of_o the_o be_v and_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o if_o this_o be_v true_a of_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o shall_v we_o think_v it_o be_v not_o true_a of_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n do_v the_o accession_n of_o neighbour_n to_o a_o congregation_n take_v away_o from_o such_o a_o congregation_n the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n which_o it_o have_v before_o i_o conceive_v none_o will_v so_o say_v and_o if_o every_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n may_v exercise_v entire_a jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n as_o our_o brother_n
itself_o whereas_o there_o be_v no_o consociate_v church_n to_o share_v with_o it_o in_o that_o power_n answ_n this_o i_o grant_v be_v very_o true_a and_o i_o desire_v it_o may_v not_o be_v recall_v but_o may_v still_o stand_v as_o here_o it_o be_v express_o give_v to_o we_o and_o then_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v what_o rule_n of_o christ_n be_v transgress_v if_o a_o other_o congregation_n i_o mean_v a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n do_v exercise_v the_o like_a power_n for_o my_o part_n i_o know_v no_o such_o rule_n nor_o any_o good_a reason_n but_o if_o that_o the_o one_o congregation_n may_v so_o practice_v the_o other_o congregation_n may_v do_v the_o like_a and_o that_o the_o ground_n at_o least_o some_o of_o they_o which_o will_v warrant_v the_o one_o will_v also_o suffice_v to_o warrant_v the_o other_o nevertheless_o when_o any_o rule_n of_o christ_n shall_v be_v produce_v that_o do_v restrain_v a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n of_o this_o entire_a power_n which_o be_v so_o free_o and_o plain_o grant_v to_o the_o congregation_n that_o be_v alone_o i_o shall_v then_o grant_v that_o the_o former_a must_v have_v less_o liberty_n to_o exercise_v this_o power_n then_o be_v here_o grant_v to_o the_o latter_a in_o the_o mean_a time_n that_o which_o here_o be_v yield_v to_o the_o one_o do_v among_o other_o thing_n induce_v i_o to_o think_v that_o the_o same_o aught_o to_o be_v grant_v to_o the_o other_o and_o so_o that_o entireness_n of_o power_n be_v in_o they_o both_o a_o congregation_n viz._n which_o be_v alone_o be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n because_o it_o be_v a_o church_n answ_n how_o will_v it_o then_o be_v avoid_v but_o a_o congregation_n which_o have_v neighbour_n or_o a_o congregation_n which_o be_v alone_o and_o now_o have_v neighbour_n add_v to_o it_o how_o will_v it_o be_v avoid_v i_o say_v but_o such_o a_o congregation_n as_o this_o be_v also_o capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n for_o can_v it_o be_v deny_v but_o such_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o church_n as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o sure_o if_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o doctrine_n elsewhere_o deliver_v do_v stand_v good_a this_o can_v be_v deny_v at_o all_o for_o in_o his_o page_n 301_o he_o say_v that_o be_v a_o church_n and_o have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essential_a note_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n and_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n say_v he_o be_v essential_a note_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n which_o if_o it_o be_v so_o than_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v a_o visible_a church_n and_o have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n because_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v clear_o find_v in_o such_o a_o congregation_n and_o if_o such_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o church_n then_o by_o his_o own_o doctrine_n in_o this_o place_n which_o we_o have_v in_o hand_n such_o a_o congregation_n be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n for_o thus_o i_o argue_v from_o his_o own_o word_n every_o congregation_n which_o be_v a_o church_n be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n but_o a_o congregation_n which_o have_v neighbour_n be_v a_o church_n therefore_o a_o congregation_n which_o have_v neighbour_n be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n the_o conclusion_n be_v that_o which_o we_o stand_v for_o and_o it_o make_v direct_o against_o our_o brother_n and_o yet_o i_o see_v not_o how_o he_o can_v avoid_v it_o because_o both_o the_o premise_n be_v his_o own_o for_o the_o proposition_n be_v plain_a from_o the_o word_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n uâ—z_n a_o congregation_n be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n because_o it_o be_v a_o church_n now_o if_o this_o be_v the_o reason_n why_o it_o be_v capable_a thereof_o then_o look_v to_o what_o congregation_n this_o reason_n do_v agree_v every_o such_o congregation_n must_v be_v so_o capable_a for_o our_o author_n well_o know_v that_o à _fw-la quatenus_fw-la ad_fw-la omne_fw-la consequentia_fw-la and_o for_o the_o assumption_n the_o same_o be_v confirm_v by_o his_o word_n page_n 302_o where_o he_o make_v that_o to_o be_v a_o church_n and_o to_o have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o which_o the_o preach_a of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n do_v agree_v and_o these_o agree_n to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n it_o follow_v that_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v a_o church_n unless_o he_o will_v deny_v to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n power_n of_o preach_v the_o word_n and_o administer_a the_o sacrament_n which_o i_o be_o persuade_v he_o will_v not_o deny_v at_o all_o it_o will_v unavoidable_o follow_v from_o his_o own_o ground_n that_o such_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o visible_a church_n and_o if_o such_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o visible_a church_n then_o by_o his_o own_o ground_n also_o such_o a_o congregation_n must_v be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n which_o conclusion_n if_o it_o be_v grant_v we_o desire_v no_o more_o for_o it_o be_v the_o thing_n that_o we_o hold_v a_o woman_n in_o no_o case_n be_v capable_a of_o administer_a baptism_n or_o the_o lord_n supper_n except_o she_o be_v extraordinary_o and_o immediate_o inspire_v to_o be_v a_o prophetess_n but_o for_o the_o exercise_n of_o entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n by_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o remote_a island_n i_o hope_v it_o have_v no_o such_o need_n of_o immediate_a inspiration_n answ_n nor_o do_v we_o think_v otherwise_o but_o that_o we_o may_v keep_v to_o the_o point_n and_o bring_v up_o the_o dispute_n to_o the_o thing_n in_o questio_fw-la if_o such_o a_o congregation_n have_v no_o such_o inspiration_n may_v notwithstanding_o lawful_o exercise_v entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o themselves_o and_o that_o upon_o this_o reason_n because_o they_o now_o be_v alone_o which_o if_o they_o have_v neighbour_n be_v not_o lawful_a for_o they_o to_o do_v then_o let_v it_o be_v well_o consider_v whether_o by_o the_o like_a reason_n in_o the_o like_o extraordinary_a case_n baptism_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n may_v not_o be_v administer_v the_o one_o of_o they_o by_o a_o woman_n and_o both_o of_o they_o by_o such_o as_o be_v no_o minister_n for_o as_o in_o one_o case_n the_o plea_n to_o make_v it_o lawful_a be_v this_o because_o such_o a_o congregation_n have_v no_o neighbour_n so_o in_o the_o other_o the_o plea_n be_v because_o the_o congregation_n have_v no_o minister_n nor_o perhaps_o there_o be_v no_o man_n at_o hand_n and_o if_o the_o one_o which_o at_o other_o time_n be_v unlawful_a yet_o in_o such_o a_o extraordinary_a exigence_n of_o god_n providence_n may_v be_v lawful_o do_v though_o there_o be_v no_o immediate_a inspiration_n to_o warrant_v the_o same_o why_o do_v there_o need_v such_o immediate_a inspiration_n to_o warrant_v the_o other_o the_o extraordinary_a exigence_n of_o god_n providence_n be_v alike_o in_o both_o i_o desire_v i_o may_v not_o be_v mistake_v in_o this_o passage_n for_o i_o do_v not_o affirm_v nor_o ever_o do_v that_o the_o dispensation_n of_o discipline_n and_o of_o sacrament_n in_o the_o case_n mention_v be_v both_o alike_o unlawful_a or_o else_o both_o alike_o lawful_a the_o answer_n will_v not_o witness_v that_o i_o have_v so_o affirm_v neither_o yet_o this_o present_a discourse_n tâ—_n much_o less_o do_v i_o hold_v that_o sacrament_n may_v be_v dispense_v by_o woman_n or_o by_o man_n that_o be_v not_o minister_n all_o that_o i_o have_v say_v in_o this_o matter_n be_v thus_o much_o that_o it_o be_v good_a to_o take_v heed_n how_o far_o we_o yield_v it_o lawful_a in_o such_o extraordinary_a case_n as_o want_v of_o neighbour_n to_o transgress_v and_o violate_v ordinary_a rule_n lest_o some_o body_n do_v thence_o infer_v that_o sacrament_n may_v be_v dispense_v by_o woman_n or_o man_n that_o be_v no_o minister_n in_o case_n that_o minister_n or_o man_n be_v want_v this_o i_o have_v say_v indeed_o as_o be_v tender_a and_o afraid_a to_o open_v a_o door_n too_o far_o for_o liberty_n of_o transgress_v ordinary_a rule_n and_o conceive_v that_o keep_v close_o to_o those_o rule_n be_v the_o safe_a way_n if_o any_o man_n be_v more_o bold_a and_o dare_v open_a the_o door_n further_o than_o i_o dare_v adventure_n to_o do_v and_o think_v he_o can_v easy_o shut_v the_o same_o again_o to_o stop_v the_o inconvenience_n and_o ill_a consequent_n which_o i_o fear_v may_v thence_o ensue_v i_o shall_v leave_v he_o to_o his_o discretion_n and_o the_o guidance_n of_o god_n therein_o only_o crave_v thus_o much_o for_o myself_o that_o no_o more_o may_v be_v impute_v to_o i_o nor_o report_v of_o i_o in_o this_o or_o other_o matter_n than_o indeed_o i_o have_v affirm_v or_o express_v concern_v his_o second_o reason_n
of_o nice_a the_o first_o general_a council_n of_o constantinople_n with_o other_o counsel_n and_o author_n witness_v the_o same_o pag._n 201_o 202._o and_o in_o a_o three_o place_n he_o grant_v that_o all_o matter_n in_o the_o church_n must_v be_v do_v with_o the_o people_n consent_n consentiente_fw-la plebe_fw-la allege_v a_o matter_n of_o 18._o or_o 19_o author_n for_o the_o same_o tenet_n peaceable_a plea_n p._n 49._o and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o allege_v and_o approve_v the_o judgement_n of_o mr._n calderwood_n and_o mr._n cartwright_n affirm_v that_o this_o liberty_n be_v purchase_v by_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n due_a right_n second_o pag._n 464._o all_o which_o do_v plain_o show_v that_o in_o his_o judgement_n the_o people_n have_v some_o 〈◊〉_d or_o privilege_n or_o right_a in_o church_n matter_n yea_o as_o himself_o say_v in_o this_o they_o have_v divinum_fw-la jus_o god_n right_a and_o yet_o for_o all_o this_o the_o apostle_n word_n do_v plain_o forbid_v woman_n to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n 1_o cor._n 14._o 34._o 1_o tim._n 2._o 12._o which_o very_o prohibition_n to_o woman_n do_v also_o secret_o imply_v that_o man_n may_v have_v liberty_n to_o practice_v though_o woman_n may_v not_o now_o then_o if_o the_o people_n have_v liberty_n privilege_n right_o to_o consent_v and_o act_n in_o church_n matter_n yea_o to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n and_o yet_o woman_n may_v not_o speak_v therein_o how_o can_v this_o stand_v which_o here_o m._n rutherford_n write_v that_o if_o the_o people_n have_v any_o liberty_n this_o liberty_n must_v also_o be_v due_a to_o woman_n if_o the_o apostle_n word_n and_o our_o brother_n own_o doctrine_n in_o the_o place_n cite_v do_v stand_v his_o say_n in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v now_o in_o hand_n can_v stand_v they_o be_v so_o contrary_a one_o to_o another_o three_o say_v he_o what_o privilege_n the_o people_n have_v in_o ordination_n to_o confer_v a_o ministry_n which_o they_o neither_o have_v formal_o nor_o virtual_o i_o know_v not_o answ_n neither_o formal_o nor_o virtual_o then_o hear_v your_o own_o word_n pag._n 7._o i_o deny_v not_o but_o there_o be_v a_o power_n virtual_a not_o formal_a in_o the_o church_n of_o believer_n to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordination_n of_o pastor_n hic_fw-la &_o nunc_fw-la this_o power_n be_v virtual_a not_o formal_a etc._n etc._n whereas_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n the_o virtual_a power_n as_o well_o as_o the_o formal_a be_v deny_v which_o thing_n be_v not_o free_a from_o interfer_v or_o strong_a appearance_n thereof_o our_o word_n be_v not_o just_a the_o same_o which_o m._n rutherford_n set_v down_o a_o privilege_n in_o ordination_n to_o confer_v a_o ministry_n but_o these_o be_v our_o word_n a_o liberty_n exercise_v about_o ordination_n etc._n etc._n and_o who_o know_v not_o but_o there_o may_v be_v a_o liberty_n exercise_v about_o ordination_n or_o any_o other_o ordinance_n by_o way_n of_o consent_n thereto_o or_o desire_v thereof_o etc._n etc._n without_o any_o authoritative_a act_n therein_o and_o if_o this_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n be_v such_o a_o fault_n then_o how_o shall_v he_o be_v justify_v who_o do_v give_v to_o the_o people_n a_o great_a matter_n than_o this_o liberty_n do_v amount_v unto_o even_o a_o power_n to_o do_v that_o which_o shall_v stand_v for_o ordination_n itself_o which_o to_o do_v i_o conceive_v be_v more_o than_o to_o exercise_v some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n and_o when_o the_o reader_n shall_v have_v consider_v these_o ensue_a word_n of_o m_o rutherford_n then_o let_v he_o be_v judge_n whether_o m._n rutherford_n do_v not_o give_v this_o power_n unto_o the_o people_n in_o some_o case_n as_o a_o rose_n say_v he_o cause_v to_o grow_v in_o winter_n by_o art_n be_v of_o that_o same_o nature_n with_o a_o rise_v produce_v in_o summer_n by_o nature_n though_o the_o manner_n of_o production_n be_v different_a so_o be_v they_o both_o true_a pastor_n those_o who_o have_v no_o call_n but_o the_o people_n election_n and_o those_o who_o have_v ordination_n by_o pastor_n p._n 186._o and_o in_o the_o page_n follow_v he_o give_v two_o reason_n to_o prove_v that_o in_o some_o case_n election_n by_o the_o people_n only_o may_v stand_v for_o ordination_n 1._o because_o god_n be_v not_o necessary_o tie_v to_o succession_n of_o pastor_n 2._o because_o where_o man_n be_v gift_v for_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o there_o be_v no_o pastor_n to_o be_v have_v the_o give_v of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o a_o call_n of_o god_n who_o be_v not_o want_v to_o his_o own_o gracious_a intention_n though_o ordinary_a mean_n fail_v now_o if_o the_o people_n without_o pastor_n may_v do_v that_o which_o shall_v stand_v for_o ordination_n and_o if_o their_o election_n do_v make_v a_o minister_n in_o some_o case_n this_o seem_v to_o be_v more_o then_o only_o to_o exercise_v some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n for_o as_o much_o as_o they_o may_v do_v this_o latter_a and_o possible_o no_o minister_n be_v make_v thereby_o whereas_o in_o the_o other_o case_n a_o man_n be_v make_v a_o true_a pastor_n and_o minister_n as_o well_o as_o by_o ordination_n itself_o marvel_v it_o be_v therefore_o that_o the_o great_a be_v allow_v as_o lawful_a and_o not_o the_o lesser_a that_o some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n may_v not_o be_v allow_v and_o yet_o that_o can_v be_v allow_v which_o may_v stand_v for_o ordination_n itself_o and_o which_o make_v a_o ministerâ—_n as_o true_o as_o ordination_n do_v chap._n xviii_o of_o mr._n rutherford_n report_n of_o synodical_a proposition_n in_o new-england_n next_o after_o this_o our_o reverend_a author_n fall_v to_o scan_v as_o he_o say_v pag._n 476._o some_o synodical_a proposition_n of_o the_o church_n of_o new_a england_n as_o he_o call_v they_o together_o with_o a_o table_n of_o church_n power_n which_o he_o call_v the_o table_n of_o new_a england_n but_o with_o favour_n of_o soworthy_a a_o man_n he_o do_v great_o mistake_v the_o matter_n for_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o such_o synod_n nor_o synodical_a proposition_n as_o he_o speak_v of_o nor_o any_o such_o table_n of_o new_a england_n as_o he_o mention_v there_o be_v indeed_o at_o cambridge_n in_o the_o year_n 1643._o a_o print_a conference_n of_o some_o of_o the_o elder_n of_o that_o country_n where_o sundry_a point_n of_o church_n judgement_n be_v private_o discourse_v of_o and_o this_o be_v all_o but_o as_o the_o meeting_n be_v not_o any_o synod_n as_o synod_n be_v usual_o understand_v so_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o synodical_a proposition_n there_o agree_v upon_o nor_o any_o table_n of_o proposition_n agree_v upon_o to_o be_v give_v forth_o as_o the_o doctrine_n of_o new_a england_n this_o i_o be_o able_a to_o testify_v have_v be_v present_a at_o that_o meeting_n from_o the_o begin_n thereof_o unto_o the_o end_n and_o sundry_a other_o of_o the_o elder_n of_o these_o church_n can_v testify_v the_o same_o upon_o the_o same_o ground_n and_o know_v full_a well_o the_o truth_n of_o what_o i_o hear_v relate_v i_o will_v not_o spend_v time_n in_o reply_v to_o what_o he_o have_v write_v upon_o so_o manifest_a misinformation_n and_o mistake_v what_o information_n he_o go_v upon_o i_o know_v not_o per_fw-mi adventure_v some_o note_n may_v have_v come_v to_o his_o view_n which_o one_o or_o other_o may_v gather_v at_o that_o conference_n for_o his_o own_o private_a use_n peradventure_o some_o in_o their_o simplicity_n mean_v no_o hurt_n many_o have_v call_v that_o private_a conference_n by_o the_o name_n and_o term_v of_o a_o synoâ—_n and_o m._n rutherford_n may_v thereupon_o adventure_v to_o publish_v in_o print_n as_o here_o we_o see_v but_o however_o they_o mistake_v a_o rose_n sure_o i_o be_o synodical_a proposition_n there_o be_v none_o 〈◊〉_d any_o synod_n at_o all_o not_o new_a england_n table_n and_o therefore_o i_o think_v himself_o and_o other_o may_v do_v well_o and_o wise_o hereafter_o to_o be_v inform_v by_o good_a and_o sufficient_a intelligence_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o they_o publish_v to_o the_o world_n concerâ—ing_v the_o church_n in_o new_a england_n or_o else_o not_o to_o believe_v the_o same_o much_o less_o to_o divulge_v the_o same_o in_o print_n for_o what_o comfort_n can_v it_o be_v to_o any_o christian_n to_o receive_v and_o publish_v to_o the_o world_n against_o a_o man_n neighbour_n special_o against_o whole_a church_n of_o christ_n such_o report_v as_o for_o the_o matter_n contain_v in_o they_o do_v not_o agree_v with_o truth_n chap._n xix_o of_o the_o appeal_v of_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n and_o of_o the_o power_n and_o jurisdiction_n in_o general_a counsel_n deny_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n whether_o therein_o he_o do_v not_o contradict_v himself_o and_o also_o overthrow_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n assembly_n in_o
that_o time_n what_o if_o they_o meet_v for_o the_o admission_n of_o member_n also_o or_o for_o censure_v delinquent_n can_v mr._n rutherford_n prove_v that_o either_o of_o we_o i_o mean_v either_o mr._n tompson_n or_o myself_o or_o indeed_o any_o man_n else_o of_o that_o judgement_n which_o he_o oppose_v have_v deny_v a_o assembly_n meet_v for_o such_o end_n as_o these_o to_o be_v a_o congregation_n i_o suppose_v he_o can_v and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o well_o do_v to_o impute_v unto_o we_o such_o a_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n congregation_n as_o we_o never_o speak_v nor_o think_v of_o and_o then_o to_o say_v it_o be_v false_a that_o a_o company_n gather_v into_o one_o place_n be_v a_o congregation_n as_o that_o word_n be_v take_v by_o we_o i_o appeal_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o our_o reverend_a brethren_n if_o the_o church_n matth._n 18._o assemble_v to_o to_o bind_v and_o loose_v if_o the_o church_n assemble_v 1_o corin._n 5._o to_o deliver_v to_o satan_n and_o sundry_a other_o be_v there_o name_v to_o the_o like_a purpose_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n assemble_v for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n answ_n if_o the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n be_v not_o mention_v in_o the_o place_n allege_v but_o other_o action_n and_o duty_n must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o the_o church_n speak_v of_o in_o these_o place_n do_v assemble_v for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n may_v not_o one_o and_o the_o same_o church_n assemble_v for_o diverse_a end_n and_o action_n yea_o possible_o for_o diverse_a upon_o one_o day_n at_o the_o least_o wise_a it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o at_o several_a time_n of_o assemble_v a_o church_n may_v attend_v to_o diverse_a duty_n and_o action_n and_o yet_o still_o be_v one_o and_o the_o same_o congregation_n or_o church_n at_o one_o time_n which_o they_o be_v at_o another_o or_o otherwise_o we_o must_v say_v which_o be_v a_o very_a unwise_a saying_n that_o a_o church_n meet_v for_o diverse_a action_n to_o be_v perform_v upon_o one_o day_n as_o the_o word_n prayer_n psalm_n sacrament_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o the_o same_o church_n be_v one_o of_o these_o action_n that_o it_o be_v in_o another_o but_o be_v one_o church_n when_o they_o be_v at_o prayer_n another_o when_o they_o be_v sing_v psalm_n another_o when_o they_o be_v in_o exercise_n of_o the_o word_n or_o sacrament_n etc._n etc._n or_o if_o they_o meet_v one_o day_n for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n and_o another_o day_n for_o word_n and_o prayer_n without_o sacrament_n that_o nâ—w_o they_o be_v diverse_a church_n and_o not_o the_o same_o upon_o one_o of_o these_o day_n that_o they_o be_v upon_o another_o the_o nature_n and_o kind_n of_o their_o church_n be_v alter_v according_a to_o the_o several_a duty_n wherein_o they_o be_v exercise_v this_o argue_v i_o suppose_v mr._n rutherford_n will_v not_o own_v for_o good_a and_o yet_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v it_o be_v no_o worse_o but_o the_o very_a same_o with_o that_o which_o himself_o do_v here_o use_v who_o because_o the_o church_n mention_v matth._n 18._o 1_o corinth_n 5._o and_o other_o place_n by_o he_o name_v be_v say_v to_o meet_v for_o discipline_n or_o other_o duty_n will_v thereupon_o have_v it_o think_v that_o the_o church_n mention_v in_o those_o place_n be_v not_o a_o church_n that_o do_v ever_o meet_v for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n but_o be_v some_o other_o church_n of_o another_o kind_n which_o argue_v may_v be_v good_a if_o these_o which_o i_o have_v here_o above_o express_v be_v good_a but_o otherwise_o i_o conceive_v it_o can_v stand_v chap._n xxiv_o whether_o those_o child_n of_o israel_n numb_a 8._o 10._o who_o lay_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n be_v elder_n by_o office_n and_o as_o so_o consider_v do_v lay_v on_o their_o hand_n and_o whether_o this_o scripture_n do_v not_o prove_v that_o where_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n to_o be_v have_v there_o some_o principal_a member_n though_o not_o elder_n by_o office_n may_v impose_v hand_n on_o church_n officer_n the_o child_n of_o israel_n which_o be_v not_o the_o church_n officer_n lay_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n numb_a 8._o 10._o therefore_o when_o a_o church_n have_v no_o elder_n the_o people_n may_v confer_v ordination_n and_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v tie_v to_o the_o presbyter_n only_o and_o for_o this_o be_v allege_v the_o answer_n pag._n 46._o and_o then_o he_o add_v that_o other_o of_o our_o brethren_n say_v ordination_n be_v but_o accidental_a to_o a_o minister_n call_v and_o may_v be_v want_v if_o the_o people_n shall_v choose_v in_o defect_n of_o elder_n pag._n 491._o answ_n this_o latter_a clause_n shall_v not_o have_v be_v add_v as_o deserve_v a_o confutation_n except_o our_o brother_n will_v confute_v himself_o for_o as_o we_o hear_v afore_o himself_o do_v plain_o affirm_v pag._n 186_o 187._o that_o both_o be_v true_a pastor_n those_o who_o have_v no_o call_n but_o the_o people_n election_n and_o those_o who_o have_v ordination_n by_o pastor_n and_o that_o election_n by_o the_o people_n only_o may_v stand_v for_o ordination_n where_o there_o be_v no_o pastor_n at_o all_o which_o if_o it_o be_v so_o why_o shall_v the_o same_o thing_n in_o effect_n when_o it_o be_v hold_v by_o other_o be_v here_o insert_v in_o a_o objection_n as_o worthy_a to_o be_v speak_v against_o when_o himself_o do_v cast_v the_o very_a same_o it_o be_v marvel_n that_o our_o reverend_a brother_n shall_v thus_o go_v on_o in_o represent_v our_o word_n and_o mind_n amiss_o for_o as_o here_o he_o set_v down_o the_o objection_n under_o our_o name_n some_o of_o our_o word_n be_v change_v and_o alter_v other_o be_v substitute_v in_o their_o place_n some_o be_v whole_o suppress_v as_o if_o there_o have_v be_v none_o such_o and_o other_o be_v add_v as_o 〈◊〉_d which_o never_o come_v from_o we_o of_o the_o first_o sort_n be_v those_o of_o the_o people_n confer_v ordination_n whereas_o our_o word_n be_v not_o so_o but_o that_o the_o people_n may_v impose_v or_o lay_v on_o hand_n now_o between_o these_o two_o himself_o pag._n 492._o do_v make_v a_o great_a difference_n even_o as_o much_o as_o between_o the_o authoritative_a call_n of_o a_o minister_n and_o a_o rite_n annex_v to_o that_o call_n and_o further_o say_v that_o though_o he_o think_v imposition_n of_o handâ—_n not_o so_o essential_a perhaps_o at_o that_o a_o minister_n can_v be_v no_o minister_n without_o it_o yet_o of_o ordination_n he_o think_v otherwise_o and_o if_o he_o make_v so_o great_a a_o difference_n between_o imposition_n of_o handâ—_n and_o ordination_n why_o shall_v our_o word_n be_v forsake_v which_o import_n the_o lesser_a matter_n in_o his_o judgement_n and_o those_o other_o which_o he_o account_v do_v import_n much_o more_o be_v substitute_v in_o the_o room_n be_v this_o to_o burden_v our_o opinion_n or_o apprehension_n with_o a_o great_a odium_fw-la then_o our_o word_n in_o his_o own_o judgement_n will_v bear_v or_o be_v it_o to_o make_v his_o confutation_n of_o we_o more_o easy_a than_o it_o will_v have_v be_v if_o our_o own_o word_n have_v be_v retain_v and_o keep_v what_o ever_o be_v the_o cause_n hereof_o we_o can_v but_o think_v it_o have_v be_v better_a if_o it_o have_v be_v otherwise_o for_o omit_v and_o suppress_v some_o word_n of_o we_o which_o be_v the_o second_o particular_a i_o allege_v those_o of_o the_o time_n and_o place_n where_o elder_n can_v convenient_o be_v borrow_v from_o any_o other_o church_n the_o whole_a passage_n be_v this_o viz._n by_o which_o scripture_n to_o wit_n num._n 8._o 10._o thus_o much_o be_v manifest_a that_o when_o a_o châ—rch_n have_v no_o elder_n but_o the_o first_o elder_n themselves_o be_v to_o be_v ordain_v and_o this_o at_o such_o time_n and_o in_o such_o place_n where_o elder_n can_v convenient_o be_v borrow_v from_o any_o other_o church_n in_o such_o case_n imposition_n of_o hand_n may_v lawful_o be_v perform_v by_o some_o principal_a man_n of_o the_o congregation_n although_o they_o be_v not_o elder_n by_o office_n in_o which_o place_n these_o word_n at_o such_o time_n â—nd_v in_o such_o place_n etc._n etc._n though_o they_o contain_v a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o case_n wherein_o we_o think_v imposition_n of_o hand_n may_v be_v perform_v by_o non-elders_a yet_o they_o be_v whole_o conceal_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n as_o if_o there_o have_v be_v none_o such_o for_o what_o purpose_n himself_o best_o know_v but_o this_o be_v apparent_a that_o by_o his_o concealment_n or_o omission_n the_o way_n be_v make_v more_o easy_a and_o the_o ground_n more_o rational_a for_o that_o passage_n of_o he_o in_o the_o follow_a page_n where_o he_o say_v what_o if_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n in_o a_o single_a congregation_n it_o will_v not_o follow_v therefore_o the_o people_n be_v to_o lay_v on_o hand_n except_o say_v he_o there_o be_v
such_o appeal_v because_o such_o assembly_n do_v more_o seldom_o err_v because_o many_o eye_n do_v see_v more_o and_o do_v more_o seldom_o miscarry_v in_o take_v up_o the_o right_a object_n then_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o the_o great_a assembly_n in_o as_o much_o as_o they_o have_v the_o most_o eye_n do_v of_o all_o other_o most_v seldom_o err_v and_o so_o to_o they_o there_o must_v be_v the_o most_o appeal_v for_o the_o learned_a author_n well_o know_v à _fw-la quatenùs_fw-la ad_fw-la omniâ—_n valet_fw-la consequentia_fw-la and_o so_o by_o this_o mean_v the_o true_a cause_n and_o reason_n of_o appeal_v lie_v according_a to_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o apprehension_n in_o the_o rareness_n and_o seldomnesse_n of_o err_v in_o such_o assembly_n to_o who_o appeal_n be_v make_v and_o the_o cause_n of_o this_o seldomnesse_n of_o err_v lie_v in_o the_o multitude_n and_o great_a number_n of_o eye_n in_o such_o assembly_n it_o must_v needs_o thereupon_o follow_v that_o universal_a or_o general_a council_n as_o have_v in_o they_o the_o most_o eye_n be_v the_o assembly_n that_o do_v most_o seldom_o err_v and_o so_o unâ—o_v they_o there_o must_v be_v most_o appeal_v which_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v the_o classical_a 〈◊〉_d and_o national_n synod_n be_v all_o by_o this_o mean_v deprive_v and_o striâ—t_v of_o 〈◊〉_d of_o â—â—â—â—diction_n as_o well_o as_o the_o particular_a congregation_n the_o synod_n by_o 〈◊〉_d to_o general_a council_n as_o to_o those_o that_o do_v raâ—iùs_fw-la câ—rare_fw-la aswell_o as_o the_o 〈…〉_z appeal_v unto_o the_o synod_n and_o so_o thera_fw-la must_v be_v no_o entireness_n of_o 〈…〉_z only_o in_o the_o general_a council_n but_o from_o all_o other_o synod_n there_o must_v 〈◊〉_d liberty_n of_o appeal_v aswell_o as_o from_o the_o congregation_n this_o consequence_n for_o aught_o i_o see_v do_v unavoidable_o follow_v upon_o that_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n lay_v undowne_o as_o the_o cause_n of_o appeal_n from_o a_o particular_a congregation_n and_o so_o ouâ—_n brethren_n by_o this_o mean_n have_v spin_v a_o fine_a thread_n draw_v forth_o a_o conclusion_n which_o be_v every_o what_o as_o prejudicial_a to_o their_o own_o cause_n as_o to_o we_o if_o any_o ask_v why_o may_v not_o this_o consequence_n be_v own_v why_o may_v we_o not_o say_v there_o must_v be_v liberty_n of_o appeal_v from_o all_o synod_n and_o presbytery_n except_o only_o the_o general_a council_n the_o answer_n be_v thâ—t_v we_o may_v not_o so_o say_v because_o then_o cause_n will_v be_v too_o long_o depend_v aâ—ore_o they_o can_v come_v to_o issue_n yea_o perhaps_o will_v never_o come_v to_o issue_v as_o long_o as_o this_o world_n shall_v endure_v for_o by_o this_o rule_n they_o may_v by_o appeal_v upon_o appeal_n be_v protract_v until_o they_o be_v bring_v to_o a_o general_a council_n to_o be_v determine_v there_o now_o as_o there_o have_v not_o be_v any_o such_o council_n for_o many_o age_n bypass_a so_o it_o be_v very_o uncertain_a when_o there_o will_v be_v one_o assemble_v whether_o ever_o or_o never_o whilst_o this_o world_n stand_v but_o we_o think_v christ_n jesus_n have_v provide_v better_a for_o his_o church_n then_o so_o and_o have_v not_o appoint_v such_o a_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v upon_o appeal_n but_o that_o cause_n may_v be_v determine_v afore_o any_o general_a council_n can_v be_v assemble_v beside_o if_o such_o assembly_n may_v be_v frequent_o attain_v yet_o it_o be_v not_o yet_o clear_v that_o when_o they_o be_v assemble_v they_o have_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n at_o all_o but_o only_o a_o doctrinal_a power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n remain_v in_o some_o other_o assembly_n sure_o it_o be_v mr._n rutherford_n thus_o teach_v express_o for_o his_o word_n be_v these_o very_o i_o profess_v i_o can_v see_v what_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_n scandal_n can_v be_v in_o a_o general_a council_n there_o may_v be_v some_o mere_o doctrinal_a power_n if_o such_o a_o council_n can_v be_v have_v and_o that_o be_v all_o due_a right_n etc._n etc._n pag._n 482._o and_o in_o the_o end_n of_o the_o same_o page_n and_o beginning_n of_o the_o next_o speak_v of_o those_o word_n math._n 18._o tell_v the_o church_n he_o say_v thus_o because_o ordinary_a communion_n fail_v when_o you_o go_v high_o than_o a_o national_n church_n and_o christ_n way_n suppose_v a_o ordinary_a communion_n therefore_o i_o deny_v that_o this_o remedy_n be_v needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_n church_n by_o which_o saying_n it_o appear_v that_o he_o count_v christ_n remedy_n to_o censure_n scandal_n not_o needful_a in_o a_o general_a council_n yea_o and_o he_o serious_o profess_v that_o he_o can_v see_v that_o such_o a_o council_n if_o it_o can_v be_v have_v have_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n at_o all_o to_o censure_v scandal_n which_o be_v so_o it_o must_v needs_o follow_v that_o scandal_n must_v be_v censure_v and_o cause_n end_v somewhere_o else_o afore_o they_o can_v come_v 〈◊〉_d such_o end_n to_o a_o general_a council_n and_o if_o this_o be_v so_o then_o how_o can_v that_o stand_v which_o here_o he_o affirm_v that_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_n to_o synod_n in_o this_o because_o they_o do_v rariùs_fw-la errare_fw-la more_fw-mi seldom_o err_v than_o the_o particular_a congregation_n and_o have_v many_o eye_n do_v more_o seldom_o miscarry_v in_o take_v up_o the_o right_a object_n for_o this_o cause_n be_v most_o proper_o appliable_a to_o the_o general_a council_n unto_o who_o notwithstanding_o he_o deny_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n and_o if_o they_o hâ—ve_v no_o such_o power_n there_o can_v be_v no_o appeal_v to_o they_o for_o such_o purpose_n and_o end_n and_o how_o these_o thing_n can_v stand_v together_o that_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v to_o such_o or_o such_o assemly_n do_v he_o in_o this_o that_o they_o do_v more_o seldom_o err_v as_o have_v many_o eye_n and_o yet_o that_o to_o general_a council_n there_o shall_v be_v no_o appeal_v at_o all_o as_o have_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n though_o of_o all_o other_o this_o cause_n be_v most_o proper_o â—ound_v in_o they_o i_o for_o my_o part_n do_v confess_v i_o do_v not_o understand_v if_o any_o shall_v say_v that_o as_o mr._n rutheâ—ford_n do_v make_v that_o which_o i_o have_v mention_v the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v so_o he_o do_v also_o hold_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n even_o in_o general_a council_n and_o shall_v therefore_o doubt_v whether_o i_o do_v true_o report_v he_o 〈◊〉_d touch_v the_o contrary_a i_o will_v wish_v no_o more_o favour_n of_o such_o a_o one_o but_o to_o peruse_v the_o place_n which_o i_o have_v here_o above_o allege_a and_o then_o i_o hope_v he_o will_v â—nd_v the_o word_n to_o be_v no_o otherwise_o but_o as_o i_o have_v set_v they_o down_o i_o know_v indeed_o there_o be_v some_o place_n in_o he_o which_o do_v look_v another_o way_n as_o that_o where_o he_o say_v it_o be_v by_o accident_n and_o not_o through_o want_n of_o invatâ—_n and_o intrinsical_v power_n that_o the_o court_n of_o a_o catholic_n council_n can_v not_o in_o a_o ordinary_a and_o constant_a way_n exercise_v that_o power_n which_o now_o we_o be_v speak_v of_o due_a right_n page_n 308._o and_o a_o little_a after_o he_o say_v he_o see_v nothing_o to_o prove_v that_o a_o general_a council_n have_v not_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v a_o national_n church_n yea_o and_o further_o that_o if_o there_o be_v a_o general_a council_n at_o this_o dâ—y_n they_o may_v lawful_o in_o a_o juridical_a way_n so_o be_v his_o word_n do_v that_o to_o the_o faction_n of_o romish_a pretend_v catholic_n which_o he_o say_v be_v excommunication_n in_o the_o essence_n and_o substance_n of_o thâ—_n act._n and_o in_o the_o page_n next_o ensue_v he_o say_v this_o of_o our_o saviour_n tell_v the_o church_n be_v necessary_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o all_o church_n and_o court_n of_o christ_n even_o to_o a_o catholic_n council_n these_o place_n i_o confess_v do_v seem_v to_o i_o not_o very_o well_o to_o agree_v with_o the_o either_o afore_o allege_v for_o in_o the_o one_o he_o plain_o affirm_v there_o be_v in_o general_a council_n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n and_o in_o the_o other_o he_o do_v as_o plain_o deny_v the_o same_o but_o it_o be_v the_o former_a place_n and_o not_o these_o latter_a which_o i_o do_v stand_v upon_o in_o which_o former_a as_o i_o conceive_v he_o to_o hold_v the_o truth_n so_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v that_o which_o he_o say_v in_o this_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n about_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_n from_o congregation_n to_o synod_n be_v much_o infirm_v thereby_o for_o how_o can_v that_o be_v take_v to_o be_v the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v which_o be_v most_o
to_o end_v their_o maâ—â—ers_n if_o they_o be_v able_a extempt_v they_o from_o be_v under_o the_o command_n of_o other_o hoshoulder_n have_v right_a to_o govern_v and_o order_v their_o family_n if_o so_o be_v that_o they_o be_v able_a do_v it_o follow_v therefore_o that_o superior_n in_o church_n or_o civil_a state_n have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v householder_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n herein_o but_o only_o to_o give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v or_o if_o housholdere_fw-la have_v such_o right_n do_v it_o follow_v that_o therefore_o they_o be_v under_o no_o command_n in_o church_n and_o commonwealth_n i_o suppose_v it_o will_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o or_o shall_v we_o say_v that_o class_n and_o provincial_n synod_n have_v no_o right_a to_o end_v their_o own_o matter_n within_o themselves_o if_o a_o national_n synod_n have_v power_n to_o command_v they_o or_o if_o they_o have_v such_o right_n shall_v we_o therefore_o say_v they_o be_v not_o under_o the_o command_n of_o the_o national_n synod_n and_o that_o the_o national_n synod_n have_v no_o power_n over_o they_o but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v we_o suppose_v master_n rutherford_n will_v not_o say_v so_o and_o yet_o he_o may_v as_o well_o say_v it_o as_o say_v as_o he_o he_o do_v that_o because_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o â—nd_v she_o own_o matter_n if_o they_o be_v able_a therefore_o a_o synod_n have_v no_o power_n but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o though_o the_o synod_n be_v to_o give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v which_o be_v the_o other_o ground_n whereon_o the_o conclusy_a afore_v mention_v seem_v to_o be_v build_v yet_o neither_o will_v master_n rutherford_n his_o conclusâ—on_n that_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v follow_v from_o thence_o at_o all_o for_o who_o know_v not_o that_o counsel_n and_o advise_v may_v be_v administer_v and_o give_v by_o they_o who_o have_v also_o power_n to_o command_v not_o every_o one_o indeed_o as_o may_v advise_v and_o counsel_n may_v forth_o with_o command_n and_o enjoin_v nevertheless_o counsel_n and_o command_n be_v not_o so_o repugnant_a but_o that_o they_o who_o may_v command_v may_v also_o advise_v paul_n have_v power_n to_o command_v and_o enjoin_v phylâ—mon_a to_o do_v what_o be_v convenient_a and_o yet_o for_o love_n sake_n will_v rather_o beseech_v he_o philem_n 8._o 9_o the_o lord_n jesus_n to_o doubt_n have_v absolute_a authority_n to_o command_v and_o yet_o we_o find_v he_o sometime_o speak_v to_o the_o son_n of_o man_n by_o way_n of_o counsel_n or_o advise_v revel_v 3._o â—8_o i_o counsel_v thou_o to_o buy_v of_o i_o gold_n that_o thou_o may_v he_o rich_a etc._n etc._n shall_v we_o now_o infer_v from_o hence_o that_o the_o power_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o that_o his_o power_n can_v amount_v to_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o command_n i_o suppose_v we_o will_v be_v afraid_a and_o abhor_v to_o deduce_v such_o a_o consequence_n and_o therefore_o though_o a_o synod_n may_v advise_v yet_o their_o power_n to_o command_v which_o be_v more_o than_o mere_a counsel_n and_o advise_v be_v not_o from_o thence_o conclude_v to_o be_v null_a and_o so_o much_o for_o master_n rutherford_n his_o second_o place_n wherein_o he_o deal_v against_o the_o answer_n chap._n iii_o of_o the_o assembly_n act._n 15._o whether_o they_o do_v exercise_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n against_o the_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n and_o whether_o their_o rebuke_v of_o they_o do_v argue_v the_o affirmative_a in_o his_o page_n 388._o he_o lay_v down_o this_o as_o a_o 2d._o object_n viz._n that_o there_o be_v no_o censure_v of_o person_n for_o scandal_n and_o that_o meeting_n act_n 15._o because_o there_o be_v nothing_o there_o but_o a_o doctrinal_a declaration_n of_o the_o falsehood_n of_o their_o opinion_n who_o teach_v the_o necessity_n of_o circumcision_n and_o that_o all_o be_v do_v by_o way_n of_o doctrine_n and_o by_o power_n of_o the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n not_o of_o jurisdiction_n be_v clear_a from_o the_o end_n of_o the_o meeting_n which_o be_v verse_n 2_o &_o 6._o to_o consider_v of_o that_o question_n consideration_n of_o question_n be_v the_o end_n of_o the_o synod_n be_v a_o thing_n belong_v to_o doctrinal_a power_n mere_o and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o in_o the_o margin_n allege_v the_o answer_n chap._n 1._o page_n 8._o ans_fw-fr whereto_o i_o first_o of_o all_o return_n this_o answer_n first_o that_o the_o thing_n here_o in_o question_n be_v about_o the_o power_n of_o that_o meeting_n act_v 15._o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o place_n allege_v by_o master_n rutherford_n that_o can_v warrant_v he_o to_o frame_v such_o a_o objection_n under_o master_n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o as_o proceed_v from_o we_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o that_o meeting_n act_v 15_o be_v not_o mention_v at_o all_o in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v neither_o for_o that_o purpose_n which_o he_o set_v down_o nor_o for_o any_o other_o much_o loss_n be_v the_o objection_n we_o in_o terminis_fw-la now_o to_o frame_v a_o objection_n and_o to_o allege_v chapter_n and_o page_n for_o proof_n that_o the_o objection_n be_v we_o when_o as_o neither_o page_n nor_o chapter_n aleadge_v do_v speak_v any_o thing_n at_o all_o of_o that_o matter_n what_o reason_n can_v be_v give_v for_o this_o i_o know_v not_o nevertheless_o because_o the_o matter_n contain_v in_o the_o objection_n do_v not_o much_o differ_v from_o my_o apprehension_n and_o judgement_n and_o something_o in_o the_o answer_n elsewhere_o may_v possible_o intimate_v such_o a_o thing_n though_o but_o brief_o touch_v i_o will_v therefore_o consider_v of_o what_o he_o say_v for_o remove_v the_o objection_n as_o himself_o have_v propound_v the_o same_o it_o be_v false_a say_v he_o that_o there_o be_v no_o censure_v of_o person_n here_o for_o it_o be_v more_o than_o evident_a that_o the_o public_a synodical_a censure_n of_o rebuke_n be_v put_v upon_o those_o who_o hold_v and_o urge_v the_o necessity_n of_o circumcision_n and_o why_o not_o excommunication_n also_o in_o case_n of_o obstinacy_n for_o the_o synodical_a censure_n of_o a_o public_a synodical_a rebuke_n be_v only_o gradual_o different_a not_o specifical_o from_o excommunication_n &_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o ouâ—_n &_o the_o same_o power_n so_o then_o the_o sum_n be_v the_o synod_n have_v power_n of_o rebuke_v and_o therefore_o of_o excommunication_n also_o answ_n the_o consequence_n be_v not_o clear_a for_o who_o know_v not_o that_o there_o may_v be_v power_n to_o rebuke_v where_o there_o be_v no_o power_n of_o excommunication_n be_v it_o not_o the_o express_a law_n of_o god_n that_o every_o man_n shall_v plain_o rebuke_v his_o neighbour_n and_o not_o suffer_v sin_n upon_o he_o levit._n 19_o 17_o and_o be_v not_o our_o 〈◊〉_d word_n as_o plain_a if_o thy_o brother_n trespasle_n against_o thou_o rebuke_v he_o and_o if_o he_o repent_v forgive_v he_o luke_n 17._o 3_o whereby_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o one_o particular_a person_n have_v power_n by_o the_o law_n of_o god_n and_o christ_n to_o put_v a_o rebuke_n upon_o another_o if_o there_o be_v occasion_n for_o it_o but_o will_v it_o follow_v hereupon_o that_o one_o particular_a christian_a have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v another_o in_o case_n of_o obstinacy_n i_o suppose_v master_n rutherford_n will_v not_o say_v so_o and_o yet_o unless_o this_o be_v say_v i_o know_v not_o how_o his_o consequence_n can_v be_v make_v good_a that_o if_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v they_o may_v excommunicate_v also_o i_o know_v indeed_o he_o say_v the_o synodical_a rebuke_n be_v only_o gradual_o different_a from_o excommunication_n and_o not_o specifical_o and_o that_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o one_o and_o the_o same_o power_n but_o this_o will_v require_v some_o proof_n and_o shall_v not_o naked_o be_v affirm_v without_o any_o proof_n at_o all_o for_o of_o itself_o it_o be_v not_o evident_a that_o where_o â—ver_o there_o be_v power_n to_o rebuke_v there_o be_v power_n of_o excommunication_n also_o the_o contrary_n i_o suppose_v be_v evident_a from_o that_o which_o have_v already_o be_v say_v from_o levit._n 19_o 17._o and_o luke_n 17._o 3._o and_o from_o many_o other_o scripture_n and_o reason_n which_o show_v that_o one_o man_n alone_o have_v power_n to_o rebuke_v who_o can_v for_o that_o be_v conclude_v to_o have_v any_o power_n of_o excommunication_n i_o know_v the_o learned_a mâ—n_z be_v copious_a in_o prove_v from_o the_o word_n of_o verse_n 24._o certain_a man_n go_v from_o we_o and_o have_v trouble_v you_o with_o word_n subvert_v your_o soul_n etc._n etc._n that_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n confute_v the_o false_a opinion_n and_o doctrine_n of_o these_o teacher_n of_o
against_o the_o answer_n it_o in_o his_o pag._n 410._o where_o he_o propose_v a_o object_n to_o this_o effect_n to_o wit_n paul_n exercise_v the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n upon_o barbarian_n and_o may_v have_v preach_v to_o indian_n and_o do_v to_o scoff_a athenian_n yea_o paul_n by_o this_o power_n dogmatic_a rebuke_v the_o athenian_n act._n 17._o 22._o yet_o paul_n have_v no_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v the_o athenian_n and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o cite_v in_o the_o margin_n the_o 43_o and_o 44_o page_n of_o the_o answer_n answ_n this_o objection_n be_v take_v from_o paul_n rebuke_v the_o athenian_n our_o brother_n have_v no_o reason_n to_o propose_v it_o under_o mr._n tompsons_n 〈◊〉_d and_o i_o for_o as_o much_o as_o in_o all_o that_o discourse_n of_o we_o the_o athenian_n to_o my_o remembrance_n be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o once_o mention_v sure_o in_o the_o page_n by_o he_o allege_v there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o the_o athenian_n at_o all_o and_o therefore_o why_o this_o objection_n shall_v be_v propose_v and_o report_v by_o he_o as_o we_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o i_o do_v not_o say_v 〈◊〉_d though_o i_o think_v the_o objection_n so_o weak_a as_o though_o the_o author_n of_o it_o may_v not_o well_o own_v it_o for_o from_o whosoever_o the_o objection_n come_v for_o aught_o that_o i_o yet_o perceive_v there_o be_v good_a weight_n therein_o for_o which_o cause_n and_o because_o in_o one_o of_o those_o page_n we_o have_v deliver_v something_o concern_v a_o minister_n power_n to_o preach_v to_o pagan_n in_o general_a though_o nothing_o concern_v the_o athenians_n in_o particular_a as_o he_o report_v therefore_o i_o be_o willing_a to_o consider_v what_o mr._n rutherforâ—_n say_v for_o the_o satisfy_n of_o the_o objection_n propose_v as_o not_o willing_a to_o pass_v by_o any_o thing_n without_o consideration_n wherein_o ourselves_o may_v seem_v to_o be_v concern_v or_o aim_v at_o i_o deny_v not_o say_v he_o but_o there_o be_v a_o great_a odds_n betwixt_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v by_o way_n of_o preach_v which_o may_v be_v and_o be_v always_o perform_v by_o one_o and_o a_o juridical_a rebuke_v by_o a_o power_n jurididicall_a of_o the_o key_n which_o be_v perform_v only_o by_o a_o church_n society_n answ_n if_o all_o this_o be_v grant_v you_o the_o objection_n be_v not_o satisfy_v nor_o his_o purpose_n gain_v thereby_o for_o the_o clear_n whereof_o it_o be_v good_a to_o consider_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o how_o this_o objection_n come_v in_o and_o whereto_o it_o tend_v and_o then_o we_o may_v better_o discern_v how_o the_o objection_n be_v remove_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n answer_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n be_v whether_o a_o synod_n have_v power_n of_o jurisidiction_n and_o excommunication_n mr._n rutherford_n his_o scope_n in_o that_o place_n be_v to_o prove_v the_o affirmative_a and_o therefore_o for_o a_o dozen_o or_o 14_o page_n together_o he_o have_v these_o word_n in_o the_o top_n of_o every_o lease_n the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o his_o medium_n to_o prove_v this_o tenent_n be_v this_o because_o a_o synod_n have_v power_n to_o rebuke_v whereupon_o ensue_v the_o objection_n that_o paul_n may_v rebuke_v the_o athenian_n and_o yet_o may_v not_o excommunicate_v they_o and_o therefore_o enough_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v it_o follow_v not_o that_o they_o may_v excommunicate_v this_o be_v the_o order_n of_o the_o dispute_n as_o be_v plain_o to_o be_v seem_v by_o pâ—â—â—sing_v the_o place_n and_o now_o come_v in_o the_o answer_n which_o mr._n rutherford_n give_v to_o the_o objection_n to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v a_o great_a odds_o betwixt_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v and_o a_o juridical_a the_o one_o be_v perform_v by_o one_o and_o the_o other_o by_o many_o which_o answer_v i_o conceive_v be_v not_o sufficient_a because_o this_o difference_n may_v he_o grant_v and_o many_o more_o may_v be_v add_v if_o he_o please_v and_o yet_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n not_o gain_v nor_o the_o objection_n remove_v at_o all_o for_o what_o though_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v be_v perform_v by_o one_o and_o a_o juridical_a by_o many_o yet_o still_o it_o remain_v clear_a that_o there_o may_v be_v rebuke_v where_o there_o be_v no_o jurisdiction_n and_o therefore_o though_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v it_o follow_v not_o that_o they_o may_v excommunicate_v nor_o have_v power_n of_o jurisdiction_n if_o our_o brother_n will_v have_v satisfy_v the_o objection_n he_o shall_v not_o have_v satisfy_v himself_o with_o allege_v the_o difference_n mention_v between_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v and_o a_o juridical_a or_o synodical_a but_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o there_o can_v be_v any_o concionall_a rebuke_v at_o all_o at_o least_o wise_a not_o any_o rebuke_v of_o athenian_n who_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o excommunication_n and_o if_o this_o have_v be_v prove_v the_o objection_n have_v be_v full_o remove_v but_o this_o he_o have_v not_o prove_v at_o all_o nor_o once_o attempt_v to_o prove_v it_o but_o plain_o yield_v the_o contrary_a and_o therefore_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v the_o objection_n remain_v in_o its_o strength_n and_o so_o the_o strength_n of_o his_o argument_n remove_v thereby_o who_o will_v prove_v the_o synod_n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n from_o their_o power_n of_o rebuke_v but_o let_v as_o hear_v what_o he_o answer_v in_o the_o word_n ensue_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v say_v he_o but_o the_o rebuke_v of_o man_n because_o they_o subvert_v soul_n verse_n 24._o be_v not_o a_o mere_a concionall_a rebuke_v which_o may_v be_v perform_v by_o one_o first_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v verse_n 24._o second_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o by_o a_o whole_a synod_n 6._o 22._o three_o it_o be_v perform_v by_o a_o political_a society_n answ_n and_o what_o of_o all_o this_o may_v it_o not_o nevertheless_o be_v deny_v that_o this_o rebuke_v be_v any_o other_o then_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n be_v it_o grant_v that_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v and_o a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o and_o if_o be_v grant_v by_o a_o political_a society_n too_o must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o therefore_o it_o be_v juridical_a or_o in_o way_n of_o jurisdiction_n i_o see_v no_o necessity_n of_o such_o consequence_n nay_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o do_v confess_v as_o we_o hear_v afore_o in_o his_o page_n 393._o that_o the_o specification_n of_o this_o rebuke_n must_v not_o be_v fetch_v from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n because_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n if_o therefore_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o many_o person_n a_o whole_a synod_n a_o political_a society_n or_o what_o ever_o else_o he_o will_v call_v they_o be_v the_o efficient_a cause_n of_o this_o rebuke_n yet_o all_o this_o be_v too_o little_a to_o prove_v that_o the_o rebuke_n be_v juridical_a unless_o the_o specification_n of_o it_o must_v be_v fetch_v from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n which_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o disclayme_v moreover_o i_o will_v put_v this_o case_n suppose_v a_o pagan_a or_o a_o christian_a of_o another_o nation_n and_o kingdom_n shall_v come_v into_o a_o church_n assembly_n whether_o the_o assembly_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n or_o a_o synod_n and_o in_o the_o assembly_n shall_v open_o and_o scandalous_o misbehave_v himself_o in_o one_o kind_n or_o other_o to_o the_o dishonour_n of_o god_n and_o grieve_v of_o the_o godly_a and_o the_o danger_n of_o corrupt_v other_o that_o shall_v behold_v such_o bad_a example_n i_o will_v glad_o know_v whether_o this_o assembly_n be_v it_o synod_n or_o other_o may_v not_o lawful_o rebuke_v this_o scandalous_a practice_n and_o behaviour_n and_o if_o they_o may_v whether_o it_o will_v follow_v thereupon_o that_o they_o may_v also_o lawful_o excommunicate_v the_o man_n if_o his_o sin_n and_o impenitency_n shall_v deserve_v the_o same_o if_o it_o be_v say_v they_o may_v i_o will_v know_v quo_fw-la jure_fw-la and_o who_o give_v they_o such_o authority_n to_o excommunicate_a pagan_n or_o man_n of_o another_o nation_n be_v only_o there_o present_a at_o that_o time_n occasional_o and_o if_o they_o may_v not_o so_o proceed_v against_o such_o a_o person_n than_o the_o answer_n to_o master_n rutherford_n alledgement_n in_o the_o case_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n be_v ready_a and_o plain_a for_o as_o he_o allege_v first_o here_o be_v a_o rebuke_v second_o a_o rebuke_v of_o many_o even_o a_o whole_a synod_n three_o of_o a_o political_a society_n and_o body_n even_o so_o the_o same_o may_v be_v say_v in_o this_o case_n in_o all_o the_o particular_n for_o first_o here_o be_v a_o rebuke_v second_o rebuke_v of_o many_o three_o by_o a_o political_a society_n and_o body_n and_o yet_o all_o this_o be_v too_o little_a to_o prove_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o
that_o other_o church_n in_o such_o ease_n may_v take_v away_o the_o power_n from_o such_o a_o church_n for_o aught_o i_o see_v this_o will_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o no_o more_o than_o the_o other_o for_o though_o christ_n have_v not_o give_v to_o any_o church_n a_o power_n of_o male_a administration_n as_o mr._n rutherford_n speak_v yet_o have_v he_o give_v to_o every_o church_n a_o power_n of_o administration_n which_o if_o they_o manage_v not_o aright_o but_o do_v abuse_v the_o same_o the_o lord_n jesus_n will_v be_v displease_v with_o they_o for_o this_o abuse_n and_o other_o church_n may_v and_o aught_o to_o advise_v they_o and_o admonish_v they_o and_o testify_v against_o they_o for_o the_o same_o but_o for_o the_o power_n itself_o as_o christ_n himself_o do_v not_o forthwith_o deprive_v they_o thereof_o so_o much_o less_o may_v other_o church_n take_v it_o from_o they_o for_o who_o give_v they_o this_o authority_n per_fw-la in_o parem_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la potestatem_fw-la and_o church_n be_v all_o of_o equal_a authority_n and_o not_o one_o superior_a or_o inferior_a to_o another_o as_o therefore_o when_o child_n or_o servant_n in_o a_o family_n be_v not_o govern_v as_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v yet_o neighbour_n family_n have_v not_o warrant_v because_o of_o this_o male_a administration_n to_o invade_v the_o right_n and_o destroy_v the_o power_n of_o such_o a_o family_n even_o so_o it_o be_v in_o this_o case_n of_o church_n this_o maladministration_n in_o a_o church_n be_v not_o forthwith_o a_o sufficient_a warrant_n for_o neighbour_n church_n to_o invade_v the_o right_n of_o such_o a_o church_n and_o to_o take_v away_o its_o power_n from_o it_o especial_o if_o we_o do_v consider_v that_o this_o maladministration_n in_o a_o congregation_n may_v possible_o be_v but_o pretend_v and_o not_o real_a and_o that_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o class_n may_v paradventure_o be_v real_o such_o in_o which_o case_n mr._n rutherford_n say_v the_o power_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la be_v not_o of_o christ_n but_o their_o voice_n ought_v the_o jure_v to_o be_v swallow_v up_o by_o the_o congregation_n and_o the_o elder_n thereof_o this_o argument_n therefore_o from_o maladministration_n of_o the_o power_n of_o a_o congregation_n which_o mr_n rutherford_n say_v it_o be_v reason_n shall_v be_v destroy_v by_o another_o power_n add_v to_o it_o mean_v the_o power_n of_o a_o classis_fw-la be_v of_o no_o sufficient_a force_n to_o take_v away_o the_o power_n of_o a_o congregation_n at_o all_o not_o to_o establish_v the_o power_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la over_o the_o same_o be_v as_o just_o applyable_a against_o the_o classis_fw-la itself_o therefore_o for_o aught_o that_o do_v yet_o appear_v supreme_a ministerial_a church_n power_n which_o i_o conceive_v must_v needs_o be_v somewhere_o may_v as_o well_o be_v in_o the_o congregation_n as_o in_o the_o classis_fw-la and_o can_v neither_o by_o this_o argument_n of_o maladministration_n nor_o by_o any_o other_o that_o we_o have_v yet_o see_v be_v place_v in_o the_o classis_fw-la any_o more_fw-it then_o in_o the_o congregation_n chap._n xii_o whether_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v judge_n and_o whether_o mr._n rutherford_n can_v safe_o say_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v so_o teach_v and_o whether_o this_o say_n that_o party_n may_v not_o be_v judge_n do_v make_v against_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o congation_n any_o more_o than_o in_o a_o general_a or_o national_n council_n the_o next_o place_n where_o mr._n rutherford_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o his_o p._n 456._o where_o allege_v mr._n tompson_n and_o i_o page_z 5._o he_o have_v these_o word_n as_o we_o viz._n if_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v the_o sole_a judge_n which_o must_v be_v if_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v in_o the_o congregation_n as_o we_o grant_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n and_o the_o congregation_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o and_o so_o it_o shall_v be_v lawful_a for_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v against_o all_o equity_n and_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n it_o must_v then_o follow_v that_o it_o be_v not_o against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o a_o congregation_n though_o consociate_v with_o other_o congregation_n have_v entire_a jurisdiction_n within_o itself_o answ_n our_o word_n in_o the_o page_n allege_v be_v more_o prospicuous_a and_o clear_a than_o these_o which_o be_v here_o set_v down_o for_o we_o neither_o do_v we_o make_v any_o mention_n of_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n nor_o yet_o of_o a_o congregation_n consociate_v with_o other_o church_n lest_o of_o all_o do_v we_o say_v or_o report_v other_o to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v against_o all_o equity_n and_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n none_o of_o these_o thing_n be_v we_o and_o therefore_o that_o our_o true_a meaning_n may_v plain_o appear_v as_o it_o be_v i_o will_v transcribe_v a_o few_o of_o our_o word_n which_o be_v these_o viz._n sure_a we_o can_v think_v that_o there_o can_v be_v such_o a_o case_n imagine_v wherein_o you_o will_v grant_v it_o lawful_a for_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v against_o all_o equity_n and_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n and_o yet_o you_o grant_v that_o the_o case_n may_v be_v such_o that_o a_o single_a congregation_n may_v have_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o itself_o which_o seem_v to_o we_o plain_o to_o prove_v that_o for_o a_o congregation_n to_o be_v so_o independent_a as_o to_o be_v the_o final_a judge_n of_o offence_n within_o itself_o be_v not_o against_o all_o equity_n nor_o against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n as_o be_v intimate_v by_o you_o these_o be_v our_o word_n much_o differ_v from_o those_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n set_v down_o as_o we_o which_o i_o think_v meet_v to_o relate_v out_o of_o the_o answer_n that_o our_o meaning_n may_v appear_v as_o it_o be_v and_o no_o otherwise_o and_o now_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o our_o brother_n subjoin_v for_o answer_v none_o of_o we_o say_v he_o do_v teach_v that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v the_o judge_n it_o may_v fall_v out_o in_o a_o general_a council_n lawful_o convene_v from_o which_o their_o be_v no_o provocation_n yea_o and_o in_o a_o national_n council_n for_o all_o counsel_n may_v err_v the_o adverse_a party_n may_v judge_v as_o it_o be_v a_o lawful_a council_n according_a to_o a_o church_n constitution_n that_o condemn_v christ_n of_o blasphemy_n and_o they_o be_v also_o his_o enemy_n answ_n and_o may_v it_o not_o also_o fall_v out_o in_o a_o provincial_a synod_n and_o in_o a_o classis_fw-la or_o presbtytery_n of_o many_o church_n i_o suppose_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o the_o judge_n in_o all_o these_o may_v be_v the_o adverse_a party_n and_o so_o if_o the_o adverse_a party_n may_v not_o be_v judge_n than_o neither_o general_n nor_o national_n counsel_n nor_o provincial_n synod_n nor_o class_n nor_o presbytery_n may_v be_v judge_n because_o there_o be_v none_o of_o these_o but_o possible_o they_o may_v be_v party_n and_o so_o this_o argument_n party_n may_v not_o be_v judge_n do_v make_v no_o more_o against_o the_o congregation_n power_n of_o judge_v then_o against_o all_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n whatsoever_o unless_o therefore_o man_n will_v overthrow_v the_o power_n of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n whatsoever_o without_o exception_n of_o any_o they_o can_v have_v no_o help_n from_o this_o argument_n to_o overthrow_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o congregation_n not_o to_o insist_v upon_o that_o which_o may_v also_o be_v true_o allege_v that_o the_o objection_n have_v the_o like_a force_n if_o any_o at_o all_o against_o civil_a judicatories_n but_o be_v it_o so_o indeed_o as_o our_o brother_n affirm_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v teach_v that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v the_o judge_n i_o think_v he_o shall_v not_o thus_o have_v speak_v for_o i_o be_o much_o mistake_v if_o the_o contrary_a hereunto_o be_v not_o certain_o true_a for_o first_o of_o all_o i_o allege_v the_o word_n of_o reverend_a mr_n herle_n in_o his_o book_n of_o independency_n page_n 5._o allege_v in_o the_o answer_n page_n 6_o the_o very_a pag._n which_o here_o mr_n rutherford_n be_v deal_v against_o in_o which_o place_n of_o mr._n herle_v there_o be_v these_o word_n viz._n that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v gradual_a judicatories_n wherein_o the_o aggrieved_a party_n may_v appeal_v from_o the_o lesser_a to_o the_o high_a that_o against_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n the_o adverse_a party_n be_v not_o the_o sole_a
make_v good_a what_o our_o brethren_n say_v that_o therefore_o they_o may_v judge_v of_o a_o minister_n fitness_n answ_n that_o which_o we_o say_v in_o this_o answ_n pag._n 51._o there_o must_v be_v some_o ability_n to_o discern_v whether_o man_n be_v qualify_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n afore_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v elect_v and_o choose_v into_o office_n and_o the_o people_n of_o god_n have_v so_o much_o ability_n as_o be_v of_o necessity_n require_v afore_o there_o be_v precede_v unto_o ordination_n wherein_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o our_o argue_v be_v from_o the_o people_n ability_n to_o discern_v of_o man_n fitness_n afore_o they_o be_v elect_v to_o their_o like_a ability_n to_o discern_v of_o their_o fitness_n afore_o they_o be_v ordain_v they_o who_o have_v so_o much_o as_o to_o discern_v who_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v ordain_v but_o the_o people_n of_o god_n may_v have_v the_o former_a ergo_fw-la they_o may_v have_v the_o latter_a now_o what_o say_v mr._n rutherford_n hereunto_o the_o assumption_n he_o deny_v not_o but_o in_o plain_a word_n grant_v it_o say_v they_o may_v as_o christ_n sheep_n joh._n 10._o discern_v christ_n voice_n and_o so_o have_v a_o power_n of_o election_n of_o their_o own_o pastor_n it_o must_v then_o be_v the_o consequence_n that_o must_v be_v deny_v or_o the_o conclusion_n must_v be_v yield_v what_o then_o bring_v he_o to_o overthrow_v the_o consequence_n nothing_o but_o this_o that_o there_o be_v a_o two_o fold_v knowledge_n one_o of_o christian_n not_o deny_v to_o woman_n and_o believe_a child_n who_o can_v lay_v on_o hand_n nor_o ordain_v miâ—isters_n as_o the_o presbytery_n do_v but_o what_o the_o other_o knowledge_n be_v he_o do_v not_o plain_o tell_v except_o any_o thing_n may_v be_v gather_v from_o the_o word_n follow_v where_o he_o say_v but_o for_o try_v of_o minister_n if_o they_o be_v the_o son_n of_o the_o prophet_n apt_a to_o teach_v able_a to_o convince_v the_o subtle_a heretic_n and_o gainsayer_n and_o to_o put_v they_o to_o silence_n there_o must_v be_v in_o a_o constitute_v church_n a_o college_n of_o pastor_n and_o prophet_n to_o try_v the_o prophet_n with_o a_o presbyterial_a cognizance_n answ_n but_o if_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v have_v speak_v to_o the_o point_n he_o shall_v have_v give_v some_o reason_n why_o the_o people_n may_v discern_v a_o man_n fitness_n for_o election_n and_o yet_o not_o discern_v his_o fitness_n for_o ordination_n for_o this_o be_v the_o consequence_n of_o our_o argument_n which_o he_o deny_v but_o in_o all_o that_o be_v here_o say_v about_o a_o two_o fold_v knowledge_n one_o of_o christian_n and_o the_o other_o of_o some_o body_n else_o what_o be_v there_o in_o all_o this_o that_o have_v so_o much_o as_o the_o least_o show_n of_o overthrow_v or_o weaken_v the_o consequence_n suâ—e_o nothing_o at_o all_o that_o i_o can_v find_v for_o as_o for_o that_o which_o be_v intimate_v that_o christian_n have_v not_o so_o much_o knowledge_n as_o to_o try_v minister_n whether_o they_o be_v apt_a to_o teach_v etc._n etc._n this_o make_v nothing_o to_o the_o point_n in_o hand_n that_o they_o can_v discern_v whether_o a_o man_n be_v fit_a to_o be_v elect_v but_o not_o discern_v whether_o he_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v ordain_v but_o if_o it_o have_v any_o strength_n in_o it_o at_o all_o it_o be_v as_o much_o against_o the_o ability_n of_o the_o people_n which_o he_o express_o grant_v as_o against_o that_o which_o he_o will_v deny_v as_o much_o against_o their_o ability_n of_o discern_v his_o fitness_n for_o ordination_n and_o therefore_o how_o this_o shall_v overthrow_v the_o one_o and_o not_o the_o other_o i_o do_v not_o know_v for_o to_o any_o man_n understanding_n it_o make_v no_o more_o against_o the_o one_o then_o against_o the_o other_o but_o either_o against_o both_o which_o he_o will_v not_o grant_v or_o else_o against_o neither_o which_o i_o conceive_v be_v the_o very_a truth_n to_o argue_v in_o this_o sort_n they_o have_v not_o ability_n to_o convince_v 〈◊〉_d heretic_n ergo_fw-la they_o may_v not_o choose_v their_o minister_n this_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v not_o own_o for_o he_o plain_o grant_v they_o may_v choose_v and_o therefore_o how_o can_v this_o argue_v be_v good_a they_o want_v ability_n to_o convince_v heretic_n ergo_fw-la they_o may_v not_o impose_v hand_n in_o ordination_n how_o the_o one_o kind_n of_o reason_v can_v be_v better_o than_o the_o other_o i_o do_v not_o know_v except_o we_o will_v say_v some_o may_v be_v lawful_o elect_v and_o choose_v to_o the_o ministry_n who_o can_v lawful_o be_v ordain_v but_o this_o i_o suppose_v can_v be_v say_v with_o truth_n chap._n xxvi_o whether_o the_o epistle_n to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n wherein_o there_o be_v contain_v rule_n of_o direction_n in_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n do_v prove_v that_o the_o action_n may_v not_o in_o any_o case_n be_v perform_v by_o non-officer_n but_o must_v be_v perform_v only_o by_o presbyter_n and_o whether_o the_o argument_n do_v not_o make_v as_o strong_o for_o the_o appropriate_a of_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n to_o the_o prelate_n as_o to_o the_o presbyter_n and_o do_v not_o as_o well_o exclude_v the_o presbyter_n from_o meddle_v therein_o as_o exclude_v the_o people_n there_o be_v only_o one_o place_n more_o where_o i_o find_v mr._n rutherford_n except_v against_o the_o answer_n and_o that_o be_v in_o his_o pag._n 497._o where_o allege_v the_o answer_n pag._n 59_o which_o i_o conceive_v be_v misprint_v for_o pag._n 49._o he_o set_v down_o these_o word_n as_o we_o viz._n if_o people_n may_v not_o meddle_v with_o ordination_n because_o it_o be_v proper_a to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n this_o may_v prove_v that_o they_o be_v bishop_n who_o do_v ordain_v elder_n there_o alone_o which_o minister_n may_v not_o do_v there_o for_o these_o epistle_n be_v not_o write_v to_o they_o as_o bishop_n alone_o nor_o as_o elder_n alone_o but_o as_o to_o a_o mix_a state_n include_v the_o people_n answ_n the_o order_n of_o the_o dispute_n be_v this_o reverend_a mr._n herle_n argue_v for_o ordination_n of_o officer_n by_o a_o consociate_v eldership_n and_o not_o by_o a_o single_a congregation_n with_o or_o without_o a_o pastor_n bring_v this_o reason_n for_o his_o judgement_n viz._n rule_n of_o direction_n how_o to_o proceed_v in_o ordination_n and_o the_o epistle_n where_o those_o rule_n be_v lay_v down_o be_v not_o write_v to_o the_o church_n or_o congregation_n but_o to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n in_o answer_v whereunto_o we_o speak_v to_o this_o purpose_n that_o if_o this_o be_v a_o sufficient_a reason_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o people_n may_v not_o in_o any_o case_n meddle_v with_o ordination_n then_o by_o as_o good_a reason_n it_o will_v follow_v that_o ordination_n belong_v not_o to_o the_o presbytery_n or_o synod_n but_o only_o to_o one_o man_n as_o the_o prelate_n will_v have_v it_o the_o reason_n we_o give_v be_v because_o timothy_n and_o titus_n be_v each_o of_o they_o but_o only_o one_o man_n and_o we_o there_o further_o say_v that_o we_o do_v approve_v the_o answer_n give_v to_o this_o kind_n of_o reason_v by_o the_o refuter_fw-la of_o dr._n downâ—â—s_n sermon_n at_o lâ—â—beth_n who_o show_v that_o what_o be_v write_v in_o those_o epistle_n be_v not_o only_o write_v for_o timothy_n and_o titus_n but_o for_o other_o minister_n also_o and_o also_o in_o some_o sort_n for_o all_o the_o saint_n and_o that_o therefore_o there_o be_v no_o more_o reason_n to_o appropriate_v those_o rule_n only_o to_o the_o use_n of_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n then_o only_o to_o the_o use_n of_o prelate_n now_o what_o say_v mr._n rutherford_n to_o this_o some_o parcel_n of_o these_o 〈◊〉_d be_v write_v say_v he_o to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n as_o evangeliâ—ts_n something_o be_v be_v write_v to_o they_o as_o christian_n and_o finaditer_n &_o objective_n all_o be_v write_v for_o the_o church_n good_a but_o the_o bulk_n of_o the_o epistle_n be_v write_v to_o they_o as_o elder_n and_o especial_o 1_o tim._n 5._o 22._o 2_o tim._n 2._o 2._o for_o these_o and_o the_o like_a they_o be_v to_o do_v with_o the_o presbytery_n as_o be_v clear_a 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o answ_n this_o scripture_n 1_o tim._n 4._o do_v show_v that_o timothy_n have_v a_o gift_n give_v he_o by_o prophecy_n with_o the_o lay_n on_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o presbytery_n but_o how_o do_v it_o hence_o appear_v that_o not_o only_a timothy_n but_o titus_n also_o be_v to_o dothing_n with_o the_o presbytery_n titus_n be_v not_o at_o all_o mention_v in_o that_o scripture_n and_o as_o for_o timothy_n scripture_n tell_v what_o the_o presbytery_n do_v to_o he_o but_o what_o he_o must_v do_v with_o the_o presbytery_n it_o tell_v we_o nothing_o at_o all_o again_o if_o the_o bulk_n of_o the_o epistle_n be_v write_v to_o they_o as_o elder_n and_o the_o church_n be_v no_o otherwise_o concern_v therein_o but_o only_o finaliter_fw-la and_o objective_o the_o epistle_n be_v write_v for_o their_o good_a then_o what_o shall_v be_v the_o meaning_n and_o reason_n of_o these_o word_n in_o the_o conclusion_n of_o the_o epistle_n to_o titus_n and_o of_o the_o latter_a to_o timothy_n where_o it_o be_v say_v grace_n be_v with_o you_o and_o grace_n be_v with_o you_o all_o do_v it_o not_o plain_o appear_v hereby_o that_o more_o than_o elder_n even_o all_o the_o saint_n in_o those_o place_n be_v write_v unto_o in_o those_o epistle_n three_o if_o there_o be_v rule_n in_o the_o epistle_n that_o do_v belong_v to_o elder_n alone_o yet_o since_o it_o be_v confess_v and_o may_v not_o be_v deny_v that_o other_o thing_n therein_o do_v concern_v all_o christian_n how_o shall_v we_o be_v assure_v that_o such_o passage_n as_o concern_v â—aying_v on_o of_o hand_n be_v of_o the_o former_a sort_n and_o not_o of_o the_o latter_a for_o to_o say_v it_o be_v so_o and_o it_o be_v clear_a we_o think_v do_v not_o clear_v it_o at_o all_o unless_o some_o further_a proof_n be_v add_v last_o if_o all_o this_o be_v grant_v which_o here_o be_v say_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n yet_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v our_o answer_n be_v not_o remove_v thereby_o but_o still_o stand_v fair_a and_o good_a for_o in_o that_o place_n of_o the_o answer_n allege_v we_o say_v two_o thing_n 1._o that_o these_o rule_n about_o ordination_n in_o timothy_n and_o titus_n may_v with_o as_o fair_a a_o colour_n be_v appropriate_v to_o one_o man_n as_o to_z presbytery_n and_o synod_n 2._o that_o the_o epistle_n and_o the_o rule_v therein_o be_v not_o to_o be_v appropriate_v to_o bishop_n alone_o or_o minister_n alone_o but_o be_v indeed_o of_o general_a concernment_n for_o all_o the_o christian_n now_o neither_o of_o these_o two_o be_v discover_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n for_o as_o for_o the_o former_a of_o they_o he_o say_v nothing_o thereto_o at_o all_o and_o the_o latter_a he_o do_v in_o a_o manner_n grant_v not_o only_o by_o say_v that_o all_o here_o be_v write_v for_o the_o church_n good_a but_o also_o by_o say_v that_o something_n be_v write_v to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n as_o christian_n which_o be_v in_o effect_n the_o same_o that_o we_o have_v say_v before_o and_o how_o our_o answer_n can_v be_v disprove_v or_o satisfy_v either_o by_o say_v nothing_o at_o all_o thereto_o or_o by_o say_v the_o same_o that_o we_o have_v say_v before_o i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o judicious_a reader_n to_o consider_v finis_fw-la