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A20000 Dialogicall discourses of spirits and divels declaring their proper essence, natures, dispositions, and operations, their possessions and dispossessions : with other the appendantes, peculiarly appertaining to those speciall points, verie conducent, and pertinent to the timely procuring of some Christian conformitie in iudgement, for the peaceable compounding of the late sprong controuersies concerning all such intricate and difficult doubts / by [brace] Iohn Deacon, Iohn Walker... Deacon, John, fl. 1585-1616.; Walker, John, preacher. 1601 (1601) STC 6439; ESTC S323 312,434 405

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foorth from the harts of so many as dedicate their names vnto Christ this Christ by the verie power of his death hath actually conquered his tyrannie And therefore the holie Ghost saith truely that nowe is the iudgement of this world that is euen now and foorthwith shal the reformation thereof be effected Againe Musculus vpon these wordes Now is the iudgement of this world saith thus The Lord in these words doth seeme to vnfold the meaning of that heauenly voice which spake thus a little before I haue glorified my name alreadie and wil glorifie it againe For what is it else to illustrate the name of God in this world but to beate downe and destroy the kingdome of Satan the prince of this world And because this ouerthrow of Satan was to be actually effected by that selfesame death which Christ did then suffer for the redemption of the world therefore he saith not there shall be a iudgement of this world but now is the iudgement of this world Neither saith he the prince of this world shall be but now is cast out Againe maister Caluin vpon these words Now is the iudgment of this world writeth thus By the worde iudgement some vnderstand the reformation and some the condemnation of the world the first accordeth better with the purpose of Christ because the world by his death was then to be brought into a lawfull order For the Hebrew word Mishpat which is here interpreted iudgement betokeneth a right and a lawfull constitution of things Howbeit we haue to consider that without Christ there is nothing in the world but meere confusion Although therefore that Christ before by his preaching and miracles began to erect the kingdome of God yet for all that his verie death it selfe was the true beginning of a rightly compounded state and the full restauration of the worlde Notwithstanding this withall would be noted namely that the worlds reformation it cannot possiblie be effected but the kingdome of satan must first be abolished but flesh and what else soeuer withstandeth the iustice of God must first be subdued Christ therefore pronounceth the prince of this world to be nowe cast foorth because all dissipation and deformitie proceedeth from him For so long as satan doth exercise his tyrannie so long there doth violently breake foorth all maner of iniquitie So then Satan is no sooner cast foorth but the world is forthwith recalled from her reuolted estate to the well ordered kingdome of Christ. Againe Hemingius vpon these words the holy Ghost shall reprooue the world of iudgement because the prince of this world is iudged already saith thus The world that made a mock of Christ and willed him if he were the sonne of God to come downe from the crosse by the holy ghost who fell vpon the disciples at the feast of Pentecost was flatly conuinced that in so doing they iudged vniustly of Christ. For the holy ghost saith Christ shall then cause them to vnderstand and perceiue in deed that I hauing conquered the diuel by my death and resurrection do now exercise by your ministery an absolute authority ouer the world in that none are now able to withstand the wisedome which speaketh so effectually in euery of you This saith Hemingius is the very sence of this place if especially we refer as we ought the fulfilling therof to the efficacy and power of the holy ghost apparantly resting vpon the Apostles at the feaste of Pentecost To be short Gualter vpon these words they brought vnto Christ a Demoniack saith thus There were many such no doubt in the daies of Christ because the prince of this world was not yet cast foorth Who grew so much the more raging mad by how much he perceiued that fatal hower very neerely approche wherein he knew he must needs be cast foorth from the possession which he had so long time vniustly vsurped Loe Exorcistes these be the writers which for the present I haue purposely produced to prooue the exposition I gaue of these words Now is the iudgment of this world now shall the prince of this world be cast foorth Exorcistes Whatsoeuer you say or whomsoeuer you produce for proofe of your purpose I passe not this exposition you giue is strange and something more then that which hath been vsually receiued Orthodoxus Be it so It ouerthrowes not you see but rather confirmes the ordinary receiued exposition in that it shewes directly some actuall accomplishment of that actuall conquest concerning satans dominion Yea and this actuall conquest satan himselfe so actually felt as he was foorthwith enforced to acknowledg the same saying thus Ah what haue we to doe with thee o Iesus of Nazareth art thou come to destroy vs Not meaning therein satan his essentiall destruction but the actuall annihilating of his actuall dominion as hath been handled before And this also according to the determinate councell of God who had certeinely decreed the actuall breaking of the serpents head by the promised seede of the woman The which promised seede did purposely take flesh and bloud that he might in the flesh destroy through death him that had power ouer death that is the diuell as was shewed before Exorcistes Why should you so confidently applie this destruction of Satan to the actuall determination also of his essentiall possession and not rather to the onely effectuall weakening of that his spirituall dominion as it is vsually expounded of others Orthodoxus Because the holie Ghost ouer and besides the effectuall weakening of Satan his spirituall dominion speaketh directly there of the actuall accomplishment of something else by the verie act of Christs death The which actuall accomplishment of something else may at no hand be vnderstood either of the essence of Satan or of his power of obsession but onely of that his temporarie power of actuall possession as hath beene handled at large Yea and that selfesame actuall determination of Satan his said temporarie power of actuall possession it was so mightily feared so actually and so sensibly felt of the diuell as it made him with a bitter exclamation to burst foorth and say Ah art thou come to destroy vs As if Satan should sorrowfully exclaime in this sort Oh thou the promised seede that must actually breake my head Thou Iesus of Nazareth Thou sonne of the liuing God Thou that by the verie act of thy approching death art appointed to destroy me that had power ouer death Ah woe woorth thee Oh what haue I to doe with thee Art thou come to vndertake the actuall destruction of my actuall possession Art thou come now with force and armes to enter my house to depriue me of this my speciall armour wherein I trusted and euen actually to cast me forth of that my pallace or house which I haue hetherto possessed in peace Yea and therewithall likewise to weaken my whole spirituall dominion for euer Exorcistes But why
the bodie of a serpent sith he might by himselfe alone verie sufficiently accomplish that worke Pneumatomachus Doe you hold it for truth that the diuell in that action did not vse the ministerie of the serpent at all Orthodoxus What I doe hold therein shall hereafter be heard Onely because your selfe doe so confidently insist vpon satan his essentiall assuming of the serpents bodie at his tempting of Euah I haue here as it were by the way very apparantly proued that for any thing you are able to propound to the contrary the diuell he might easily effect that worke by himselfe alone without any helpe of the serpent as you haue heard by the former auctorities and may yet haue the same further confirmed by Cyril him selfe Who doth flatly affirme that the serpent was no true and naturall serpent in deede but onely the forme and shape of a serpent vnder which the diuell him selfe did talke with the woman and wherein also he did vndergoe the curse of God denounced vpon him And I pray you what absurditie impietie offence or inconuenience were it at all for any to hold that Moses vnder the person of a poysoning serpent did metaphorically set forth the diuell himselfe who poysoned Euah From whence comes it else that the diuell is called a viper or serpent and his children the generation of vipers but from that first description which Moses makes of him in this selfesame action There are none so grosse I suppose as to dreame that the diuel is a materiall serpent nor any so madde as to imagine that the wicked are the the generations of snakes and vipers according to the literall sense Briefly let this action concerning Euahs tentation be conferred exactly with that description and dealing of satan set downe in the Apocalypse and tell me who will not conclude but that it was the diuel himselfe metaphorically set foorth by the serpent that tempted Euah And in consideration hereof he is there purposely called not simply a serpent but that old serpent which name it selfe is afterwards exegetically expounded by the diuel and satan who deceiued the world and was a murtherer from the beginning Philologus If it was no serpent as you say but the verie diuell himselfe that tempted Euah why then is he not called by his proper name in some part of the historie concerning that action Orthodoxus It was vndoubtedly the diuell himselfe that tempted Euah whose name saith Tremellius and others was purposely concealed by Moses in an especiall regard of the simplicitie and rudenes of that present people to whose slēder capacities he sets foorth the matter in forme of a Tragedie producing the Lord the serpent the man and the woman as actors therein to the end our weake vnderstandings might be the more sensibly enformed concerning that matter Howbeit because in the historie of the creation there is no perticular mention of Angels or spirits therefore the proper name of the diuel is heere especially concealed and himselfe is metaphorically described vnder the serpent least they hearing in that action of some spirituall substance vnheard off before might happily haue a window set open to prophane curiositie and so either fall into grosse Idolatrie or runne with the Maniches into the palpable errour concerning two sundry beginnings or creators of things By all the premises then it is verie apparant that notwithstanding the contrary opinions of some I should commit no absurditie at all in auouching that Satan himselfe alone gaue the onset vpon Euah hauing some speciall reasons the testimonies of fathers yea and the opinion also it selfe verie authentically priuileged in our English church by publike authoritie Lycanthropus Notwithstanding your auctorities and reasons whatsoeuer I will neuer be perswaded that the diuell alone did set vpon Euah Exorcistes And surely whether the diuell alone or not I will neuer beleeue it was the serpent alone that did it both because serpents and snakes could neuer properly speake and for that the enimitie which was put betweene them two and their seed may not possibly be vnderstood of the snake and her broode Orthodoxus The common receiued opinion is that it was the diuell and serpent together whereunto also I doe willingly subscribe Partly in an especiall regard of two other places of Scripture which seeme to encline to that sense and partly also for that in the originall the very name of the serpent importeth so much she being called nachash of nachash or nichesh that is to diuine or to charme Signifying thereby that the diuell according to the very purport of the name it selfe did as it were so bewitch and so charme the serpent as that through his craftie suggestion she was very well able to propound such a diuination or soothsaying as did presently circumuent and deceaue our graundmother Euah But goe to let it be graunted that the diuell and the serpent together gaue the onset vpon Euah now tell me in what maner they wrought Lycanthropus In this manner First the diuell he entred essentially into the serpent and then after he vsed the serpents toong to set the temptation an end Orthodoxus But how doe you certainely know that the diuell did essentially enter into the serpent Lycanthropus How doe I know it euen by the apparant effects thereof for how came it to passe that the serpent did speakevnto Euah Orthodoxus Could not the diuell apply the serpents toong to his purpose vnlesse he did first essentially enter into her Lycanthropus No how is it possible he should Orthodoxus Why how doth a minstrill make his pipes to sound what he please doth he essentially creepe first into the bagge it selfe and then tune the pipes to his purpose or doth he only dispose the sound by his breath Philologus What how now Lycanthropus I beleeue you haue heard such a fit of mirth as if you daunce after the same but a while your opinion concerning the essentiall assuming of bodies will be driuen out of doores Lycanthropus Not so For howsoeuer a minstrill might by his breath alone be able to cause the pipes to squeake yet could he neuer distinguish the notes vnlesse with his fingers he kept the seuerall stoppes howbeit spirits and diuels are incorporall creatures hauing neither fingers nor hands nor any member else to frame the words Orthodoxus Well then thus much yet you confesse by the way that a minstrill by his onely breath may cause the instrument to giue foorth some sound howsoeuer vnable to distinguish the tunes Goe to what say you to the trumpeter he vseth no helpe of any one member at all to distinguish the sounds saue only his breath and yet only therewith he causeth so certaine a sound as euery one that heares him can tell what is played or sounded Now then if it be possible for a reasonable man thus to applie a dead instrument at his pleasure to serue his turne without any essentiall creeping into
perpetuity of satan his actuall possession you speake nothing at all to the purpose Exorcistes Sir howsoeuer I may seeme vnable to mannage the common sence which men giue of that place I perceiue no reason as yet of your owne exposition Orthodoxus Let vs therefore labour the clearing thereof by this folowing order First let vs carefully examine those places of scripture which both before and after the manifestation of Christ in the flesh do purposely entreate of his effectuall working power vpon satan The next let vs more exactly analyze that portion of scripture which we propounded euen now to prooue the final determination of satan his power of actuall possession And then lastly let vs endeuour to confirme our said exposition by the testimony of writers both old and new All this beeing fully effected the truth of the matter will breake foorth I doubt not like the Sun in his strength Lycanthropus A very excellent order I pray you proceed in the same Orthodoxus With very good will First therefore concerning those seuerall scriptures which purposely handle the effectuall working power of Christ before his manifestation in the flesh we haue to consider that the Lord God immediately after the fall of man did for the comfort of the godly and terrour of satan foretell to them both that the seed of the woman should bruse the serpents head In which place he precisely puts downe one speciall act to be actually effected by Christ vpon satan namely the actual subduing of his actual dominion vnderstood in that place by the serpents head and purposely refers the actuall accomplishment thereof to the future time saying thus The seed of the woman not doth or hath but rather shall bruse the serpents head That is in processe of time shall euen actually ouercome the said power of the diuel hauing also therein a more speciall relation to the very death of our sauiour Christ vnderstood in that place by the brusing of his heele Now then from the due consideration hereof I doe argue thus namely that euen as howsoeuer the diuell may be said to wage war with Christ and his members from time to time yet there was one special time predetermined of God wherein the said diuel was actually to bruse the heele of our sauiour and that vndoutedly was the very ti●e of Christ his suffering vpon the crosse whereupon the diuel accordingly did put into Iudas his hart to betray his maister so surely howsoeuer Christ and his members may be said to infringe effectually the diuel his tyrannicall power from time to time to the end of the world yet was there one speciall time foreappointed of God wherein Christ alone was actually to breake the serpents head and that vndoubtedly was the very selfesame time wherein Satan brused his heele I meane the verie time of Christs sufferings when he said it is finished Exorcistes Why doe you so exactly restraine the conquest of Christ ouer Satan vnto the onely time of his sufferings sith he was the lambe slaine from the beginning of the world Orthodoxus I restraine not the efficacie but the very act of Christs conquest to the onely time of his suffrings Moreouer although it be truely said that Christ was the Lambe slaine from the beginning of the world yet that must not be vnderstoode of anie actuall but of an effectuall sacrificing of Christ to so manie as in all ages and times doe apprehend the efficacie of his said sacrifice by a liuely faith which is the victorie whereby they ouercome the world If therefore you vnderstand the aforesaid place of an actuall sacrificing of Christ from the beginning to the end of the world then surely your speech is not onely to to absurd but withal it crosseth directly the holie Ghost elsewhere who telleth vs plainly that if an actuall sacrificing of Christ be there vnderstood then Christ must often haue suffred from the worlds foundation Besides that it doth quite ouerthrowe the dignitie of Christ his priesthood aboue the Leuitical priesthood which is there set foorth by many comparisons thus The Leuiticall high priest he sacrificed in a corruptible tabernacle but Christ in the tabernacle of his owne bodie He sacrificed with strange bloud but Christ with his owne bloud He entred into the sanctuary made with hands but Christ into heauen it self He appeared before the materiall Arke but Christ before God his father He euerie yeere once iterated his sacrifice whereas Christ offering himselfe but once for al abolished sinne altogither as wel of the former as of the ages to come Then after all this he renders a reason why Christ could actually but once be sacrificed namely because he could actually but once be crucified And in the end he cōfidently concludes that howsoeuer Christ was but once actually sacrificed yet the vertue and efficacie of his said sacrifice did and doth effectually extend it selfe to the sinnes which were before and to the sinnes which succeeded his sufferings So then notwithstanding whatsoeuer you obiect you may plainely perceiue that euen as albeit Christ his said sacrifice hath euer beene and euer shal be effectual from time to time yet there was one speciall time foreappointed of God wherein his said sacrifice was actually effected so surely that although the effectuall working power of Christ hath beene and is euer effectuall from time to time against the power of actuall possession yet there was vndoubtedly one speciall time wherein the saide power of actuall possession was by Christ actually annihilated and that was the verie time of Christ his manifestation in the flesh when as by the verie force of his suffrings he brake the serpents head Hereunto also the Euangelist Luke verie aptly accordeth saying When a strong armed man keepeth his house the things that he possesseth are in peace but when a stronger then he commeth vpon him and ouercommeth him he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted and deuideth the spoiles The Euangelist there doth allegorically depaint vnto vs the condition dominion and practise of satan For by the strong armed man he meaneth the diuell By his house he vnderstandeth generally the world and more particularly the parties actually possessed By peaceable possession the power and swaie of his tyrannicall dominion By the stronger he vnderstandeth Christ that victorious lyon of the tribe of Iudah By the binding of him the irrecouerable weakening of his power of obsession By the taking away of the armour wherein he trusted the vtter annihilating of his power of possession Lastly by deuiding the spoiles he meaneth the timely restauration of all poore possessed soules to the kingdome and seruice of Christ according to that which Christ saith now is the iudgement of this world Vnderstanding thereby the iudgement of discretion not the iudgement of damnation as if Christ should say thus Now is that selfesame time of the worlds reformation at hand wherein shall