Selected quad for the lemma: woman_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
woman_n	keep_v	let_v	silence_n	1,652	5	9.6134	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B00623	The peoples plea for the exercise of prophesie. Against Mr. Iohn Yates his monopolie. / By Iohn Robinson.	Robinson, John, 1575?-1625.; Yates, John, d. ca. 1660.; Brewster, William, 1566 or 7-1644, printer, attributed name.	1618 (1618)	STC 21115A; ESTC S94919	38,827	88

of vvomens prophesying not extraordinary but ordinary In his third answer he dealeth vvorse then in any of the other in labouring to smother one truth under another For albeit the women of Corinth were become so mannish as that they would prophesie uncovered and without their veile the ensigne of their subjection yet doth not the Apostle meddle at all with that malady in this place but in the 11. chapter of the Epistle as himselfe noteth Here and in Tim. he simply forbids the thing there the manner of doing it Likewise for their being as forward to speake as their husbands and in their presence it may be true in part and in some But what then Doth the Apostle in these places onely forbid their speaking uncovered and permit them to teach so it be veiled or forbids he onely their being as forward as their husbands but giues them leaue to speake in the Church so it bee with good maners and after them which his answer insinuates Or is it not evident to all that will not shut their eyes that he simply and that severely inhibits them all speaking whatsoever in this exercise Are not the words plain enough Let the women keep silence in the Church for it is not permitted to them to speak but to be under obedience as the Law sayth And againe It is a shame for them to speake in the Church And in 1. Tim. Let the women learne in silence with all subiection And I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurpe authority ouer the man but to be in subjection For Adam was first formed c. Do not all and every one of the Reasons binde women to all peace and deepe silence in the Church yea to such and so absolute as that they may not so much as aske a question for learning any thing themselues vers 35. much lesse teach others any thing I therefore conclude this as a most certain and undeniable truth that the Apostle speaks here of such a gift and exercise as women are simply forbidden to use in the Church and therefore not of an extraordinary gift or exercise which they might use lawfully and did both before and a long time after the writing of this Epistle His last answer now comes in consideration which is that the consequence is ill women are forbidden and therefore men are permitted to prophesie in the Church by an ordinary gift If the consequence seem not good why doth he so strugle as before otherwise to make an escape from the Argument let us cōsider of the force of it which appeareth to me irresistable in these 3. things First the Apostle in and for this work opposeth the men to the women sex to sex so in prohibiting women he permits men VVhen the H. Ghost opposing faith and workes in the case of iustification denies that we are iustified by works is not the consequence good that therfore we are iustified by faith VVhere hee opposeth belevers vnbeleevers in the case of Salvation and teacheth that beleevers shall be saued doth he not teach consequently that vnbeleevers shall perish If these consequences be not good I must confesse my selfe farre to seeke both in logick and Divinity Secondly the reasons of the prohibition of women prove the consequēce which are all such as prefer the men before the women subiect the womē to the men in the Church in this very work of prophesy of which he treateth But now if in prohibiting women he gaue not liberty vnto men where were the prerogatiue of men aboue women which is the onely ground vpon which he buildeth his prohibition Thirdly where verse 34.35 It is not permitted for women to speak but if they will learn any thing to ask their husbands at home if their husbands might not speak neither nor any more then they what reason can be rendred of the Apostles so speaking Lastly M. Yates in denying this consequence sheweth that so he might deny something he tooke no great heed what it were The Apostle in this whole Chap. takes order for some to prophesy and debarring women therefrom either admits men to the vse of that liberty or els wee must haue some third kinde of persons thought of which are neither male nor female My fourth Argument is from v. 29. and 32. Let the prophets speak two or three and let the rest iudg and the spirit of the prophets are subiect to the prophets VVhence I affirm that the Apostle speaks not of extraordinary prophets or prophesying since they in their doctrines could not erre and so were not subiect to any such iudgment or censure of others He answereth roundly though breifly in this place that these prophets were not infallibly assisted and more largely in another place that such prophets as haue an infallible assistance are not subiect to this Rule but others that had but as the Apostle said Rom. 12.6 meaner gifts were to be examined according to the … portion of faith so that extraordinary prophets might mix some of their own with the extraordinary gifts of Gods spirit which was to be censured by such as had a greater measure for none are to think that all that had these extraordinary gifts were free from errour in their very doctrine We see the strange gift of tongues was abused and so might the rest be That one extraordinary Prophet had a greater measure and proportion of gifts then another I acknowledge but that any one of them could erre in doctrine or was not infallibly assisted therein by the spirit I deny as a most pernicious errour weakning the foundation of faith and truth of the word of God neither hath M. Yates so much as exterprized an Answ unto the Scriptures brought by me to prooue the contrary which were Eph. 2.20 where the Ephesians as the houshold or Church of God are said to bee built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets c. c. 3.5 where he speaks of the mistery of Christ which in other ages was not made known unto the sonnes of men as it is now revealed unto his holy Apostles and Prophets by the spirit VVhence it apeares that the Church is as well built upō the foundatiō of the Prophets to wit extraordinary which then were for of them he speaketh as upon the doctrine of the Apostles and they as infalliby even for the very foundation inspired by the H. Ghost as the other So that if the Prophets could erre in doctrine then the Apostles if in doctrine taught why not written and if one alone why not more or all and if they might erre how know we that they did not erre If he say the meaner in gifts might erre but not the greater first the same followeth also touching the Apostles how much more touching the Prophets before Christ not comparable to those after him why then may there not be errors in the writings especialy of those of meaner gifts as without doubt some were in comparison of

presumption aboue my reach and least of all agreeing with M. Yates his iudgment in his answer to the next Argument which is that extraordinary prophesie did then begin to cease in the Church The third Argument is from v. 34. where the Apostle restrains womē frō prophesying or other speaking in the Church with authority as also 1 Tim. 2.11.12 and in forbidding women giues liberty to all men gifted accordingly opposing women to men sex to sex and not women to officers and againe in restraining women shewes his meaning to be of ordinary not extraordinary prophesying for women immediately extraordinarily and miraculously inspired might speake without restraint Exod 15.20 Iudg. 4.24 Luk. 2.36 Act. 2.17.19 21.9 It is a pitteous thing to see how M. Yates intangles himselfe about this Argument straining all the veyns of his wit if not of a more tender part his conscience to draw some face of answer upon it That which hath any shew of answer either in that place or any other throughout his tedious and perplexed discourse I will relate and refute confirming the Argument cleerly as I am perswaded to any indifferent iudgement His first Answer or Exception is that it is most absurd to imagine that the Corinthian women did follow their study and took orcinary pains to make sermons Secondly that extraordinary prophesie did cease and that not all at once but first in womē that the Apostle therefore especially aims at them as though to wit in their own iudgement the same measure were still upon them as well as in former times when Christ that saues both man and woman would extraordinarily manifest himselfe in both yet first after a sufficient manifestation of his grace and goodnesse he withdrew those extraordinary gifts from that sex then afterward from the other His third answer upon which he doth most insist is that the Apostle forbids two generall faults in the women the one that they would pray and prophesie uncovered 1. Cor. 11.5 imitating the Pythonisses and Sibilles of the Gentiles in laying aside their vaile and spreading their haire against decency and comelinesse the second is that in their husbands presence they would be as ready to speak as they and therefore the Apostle finding the women to abuse this gift prohibits the use of it whether simply or no he cannot iudge Fourthly hee admires by what Logick this will follow women are forbidden to prophesie therefore men haue liberty which sayes he is an ill conseqnence In his first Answer or rather exception he mistakes both the state of the question and also the nature of the ordinance The question is not of the study or ability of these women which yet I think was greater then hee maketh account of but of their forewardnesse to teach● which was certainely too great And what consequence is this The Corinthian women were not sufficiently furnished to teach by an ordinary gift therefore they needed not to bee reltrained from teaching Nay therefore they needed much more such bridle of restraint to be cast upon them especially confidering their mannish bouldnesse and immodesty insinuated against them here by the Apostle in part but much more c. 11. Neither for the second point are they that speak in the exercise of prophesie to make a sermon by an houre glasse as M. Yates gathers that were to abuse the time and wrong the gifts of others but briefly to speak a word of exhortation as God enableth and that after the ministeriall teaching bee ended as Act. 13. questions also about things delivered with them even disputations as there is occasion being part or apurtenances of that exercise 1. Cor. 14.35 Act. 17.2 and 18.4 For the Prophets gifts abilities then as under the Law a bullock or lambe that had any thing saperfluous or lacking in his parts might yet bee offered for a freewill offering but for a vow it was not to be accepted Leu. 22.23 so in this exercise of prophesie as in a freewill offering according to the gift of God that which is lesse perfit and exact may far better be excepted then if the same were presented in the Pastors vowed service and ministration For his second Answer As it is true that extraordinary prophesie did cease by degrees so is it not certain but a meere presumption that it ceased first in women but most untrue it is that the Apostle there aims at all at the ceasing of that gift in women Ecclesiasticall Histories worthy of credit in this kind doe testifie that the streame of the spirit was so far from being neare dry at this time as that it ran a strong current wel-nigh a hundred years after for all the extraordinary gifts thereof as for the casting out of divels foreseing and foretelling of things to come healing the sick and raising of the dead of whō diuers so raysed liued many yeares after witnesse amongst others Iraeneus adv Her lib. 2. c. ●7 whom also for the same purpose Eus-Hist Eccl. l. 5. c. 7. alledgeth And ever for women Evident it is by the Scriptures that extraordinary Prophesie in a very plenteous manner by them and that in the presence of men continued in the Church many years after Pauls writing of this Epistle Phillip the Evangelist had foure daughters virgins which did prophesie Act. 21.9 that in the presence of the Apostle Lo foure extraordinary prophetesses in one house and the daughters of one man so that hitherto the conduit of the spirit of Prophesie kept his course as well upon their daughters as sonnes Ioel. 2. Act. ●… So Revel 2.20 we read how the woman Iesabell calling her selfe a prophetesse taught and by teaching seduced the Lords servants in the Church of Thyatyra In which place as the errors and evils of the person is condemned so is the formall order of the Church manifested to be that vvomen prophetesses extraordinary might teach Lastly the prohibition of vvomen by the Apostle is perpetuall and not vvith respect to this or that time as appeares by the reasons thereof both in this place and in the Epistle to Timothy and such as equally belong to former times and lattter and no more to the latter end then to the beginning or middle time of the manifestation of the grace and goodnesse of Ghrist VVhat can be more absurd then to say that these reasons The woman must be under obedience 1. Cor. 14.34 and not usurpe authority over the man but be in silence because Adam was first formed then Eue. And Adam was not seduced but the woman c. 1. Tim. 2.12.13.14 were not morall and perpetuall VVere not those reasons and grounds for vvomens silence in the Church vvithout extraordinary dispensation by miraculous inspiration of as great force seven yeares before as vvhen Paul wrote this Epistle It is therfore most cleare that the Apostle aimes not at all at any ceasing of the gift of extraordinary prophesie now growing on but at the universall and absolute restraint and prohibition