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A02912 An advertisement or admonition, unto the congregations, vvhich men call the new fryelers in the lowe Countries, wrirten [sic] in Dutche. And publiched in Englis. VVherein is handled 4. principall pointes of religion. 1. That Christ tooke his flesh of Marie, haveing a true earthly, naturall bodie, 2. That a Sabbath or day of rest, is to be kept holy everie first day of the weeke. 3. That ther is no succession, nor privilege to persons in the holie thinges. 4. That magistracie, being an holy ordinance of God, debarreth not anie from being of the Church of Christ. After these followes certen demandes concerning Gods decree of salvation and condemnation. Helwys, Thomas, 1550?-1616? 1611 (1611) STC 13053; ESTC S116912 57,734 190

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denie and vvee speake to men of vnderstanding And came your first beginner in the power of the spirit in this measure and was all warantable and according to the truth that he did in his ministery will anie affirme that all was warrantable that he did or can anie affirme it and that he could not err-God forbid that anie fearing God should be so foolish nay was he not a man coming furth in some smale measure of the deepe mist of the mistery of iniquitie being then in much error and ignorance yea even in that administration of baptisme orels you haue bene vnprofitable disciples of his And would you tye all the world from the East to the west to come fetch the holy ordinances of Christ from him you his successors through all your errors ignorances and grevious corruptions where of wee knowe so manie and have cause to be jealous of you for maine moe VVhat truth pietie or godlines is there in this that you should seeke to make men either presently swallowe vp all your errors ignorantly to be washed of you with water or els stay vntill they have learned them otherwise they must not be baptized at all And further that men must be forced to learne your language and so vntill the poore disciples of Christ that would followe him English men or aine other nation can speake dutch they are debarred from the holy ordinances of God the meanes of their salvation by this your rule a fearefull mistery of iniquitie Hereby you have wrought such wickednes amongst vs and brought such desolation vpon vs the poore people of God as wee have cause to wish that in our heades were floodes of water and our eies were fontaines of teares that wee might power out a complainte against you for this your abhomination wich you have set vp whereby you have wrought such destruction and ruine in the Church of God seeking to pull it downe to build vp your selves Hereby have you glorified your Church sett hir vp to sitt as a Queene takeing vnto your selves all power authoritie yea even to shutt the gates of the holie Cittie the heavenly Ierusalem saieing that none may enter but by your authoritie Oh that you could see your great sinne herein the lamentable evill that you have wrought First against God in destroying his Temple which is built truely though exceeding weakely vpon the foundation the word of God And you have caused the enimies of God to blaspheme to make a mock at the profession of Iesus Christ And you have caused them that were more indifferently mynded to doble their doubtings and rather stepp backward then come forward Thus have you sinned with an high hand against the God of heaven who is able and will fill you the duble for this your iniquitie if you repent not And for vs you have brought much sorrow greife vexation of soule spirit vpon vs. The Lord doth knowe wee speake truely and great hath bene our cause of greife to see the Church of Christ which is his body whereof wee are though vnworthie members thus rent and torne in pecces and our profession and wee made a scorne of men who have wished and wayted for our overthrow and have taken vpon them to foretell of these evills that have come vpon vs which being come to passe according to their foretelling they have triumphed against vs blessed themselves as though their foresa●eings must needs come to passe Thus have our enimies reioyced at our miseries but the Lord hath wounded them vpon their right eie and made them a reioyceing to their enimies VVere this all our woe it were at full enough but you have by this your great sinne brought a further evill vpon vs then to make our enimies reioyce over vs saying there there so would wee have it for you have made our frends our enimies yea our familier frends with whome wee tooke sweet counsell went together to the house of God And such is the enmitie betwixt vs and them whereof you have bene cheife instruments as it can neuer have end whilst anie of vs live for it is that enmitie which the Lord put betwene the seed or the woman and the seed of the serpent which can have no end in them except wee fall into the same destruction for there is no p●ace to repentance to be found for their trangression For they were once enlightned and had trusted of the heavenly gift and were made part●●●s of the holy ghost And had tastied of the good word of God and of the powers of the world to come and are fallen away it is impossible they should be renewed againe by repentance seeing they crucifie againe to themselves the sonne of God and make a mock of him Heb. 6.4.5.6 Now to shewe how they were once enlightned First Mr. Iohn Smy●h 〈◊〉 vpon whose head the blood of all this people shal be hath by his profession in all his practice and by word and in his sundrie writings with such force of argument and strength of protestation with ground of truth as his writings shewe manifested himself to be enlightned with this truth of God That wheresoever two or three are gathered to gether into Christs name there Christ hath promissed to be in the midst of them Mat. 18.20 and therefore they are the people of god and Church of Christ haveing right to Christ and all his ordinances and need not seeke to men to be admitted to the holie thinges but may freely walke together in the waies of god and enioy all the holie thinges From this truth of god wherewith he was enlightned is he fallen denying the words of our Saviour Christ That saith wheresoever two or three are gathered togither c. And holdeth that the first two or three that are gathered togither have onely right to Christ and all his ordinances and that after all men must come to them restraning the wordes of Christ wch are generall so anie two or three onely to the first two or three and so hath sett vp a Successiō against the wch he hath formerly by all wordes writinges practice sett himself with all detestation And this man like Balaam hath consulted with you and hath putt a stumbling blocke before the people of God who were also enlightned and so are manie as you knowe fallen with him to the same sinne and vnder the same condemnation And M. Iarvase Nevile haveing witnssed not onely this but divers other truths for the which he hath bene long imprisoned and condemned to perpetuall imprisoment yea expecting death for the ame yet notwithstanding all his former fidelity and constancie whereby his bondes were famous through the whole land falling with M. Smyth vpon this your blind Succession forsakeing the rock whereon he stood is now returned beyond his vomytt exclayming against your Succession and strives to build vp the Succession o● Rome which he hath formerly with all zeale and holines pulled downe so is
their false faith are perished and thus are their estates herein most miserable VVhat were sufficient to speake against this wicked blasphemous opinion of theirs which say Christ sufferings and death were but in shewe these are they that in the highest degree deny Christ to be come in the Fle●h or if they did confes●e and beleeve that Christ were come in the Flesh then must they of force confesse that he died for all Flesh must needs dye and be changed as is shewed Isa 10.6 and 1. Pet 1.24 All Flesh is grasse and all the glory thereof is as the Flower of the Feild And all the glory of man is as the Flower of grasse which withereth and Falleth away All the disciples of Ch●ist never made question of his death for they saw and were sore he was dead and therefore they began to doubt of his resurrection through infidelitie which there had bene no cullor for them to doubt of if they had bene of these mens opinion that he died but in shewe In that all that is spoken of the resurrection from the dead is spoken of Christ it shall not be amisse yet further to consider what the holy ghost by the Appostle sheweth in this 1. Cor. 15. Chap. concerning the resurrection from the dead for by his resurrection his death shall appeare This is that then which Thapostl hath sett downe heare concerninge Christs death and resurrectiō and concerning his naturall and earthly bodie and his spi●ituall and heavenly body Thappostle doth shewe first of all in the 3. Vers That Christ died and Vers 20. Now is Christ risen from the dead and Vers 35. there is a question how the dead are raised up to which question the Appostle annsweres speaking of all dead bodies in generall and of Christs dead bodie in particuler whome he hath shewed in the 20. Vers to be the first friuts of them that sleepe That which thou sowest saith Thappostle is not qu●●ned except it dye teaching hereby as he had shewed before that Christs body did dye and all bodies must dye first or els they cannot be quickned that is raised againe from the dead vers 36. Then it being most evidently in this scripture proved That Christ was raised from the dead it is as evidently heere proved that he must needs and did first dye for saith Thappostl● it could not be quickned except it first dye And Thapostl haveing thus annswered to that part of the question in sheweing how the dead are raised then he proceeds to the second question whch is with what bodies come they furth to which questione hee answereth Vers 37.38 Thou sowest not that body that shal be but God giveth it a body at his pleasure to every seed his owne body Heere Thapostle sheweth that Chr. body all bodyes th●t are of Chr. for of those onely doth he speake as appeareth vers 23. are not raised in the resurrection with those bare bodies that are sowen but God giveth a bodie at his pleasure even to every seed his owne body that is to the seed of man all one body to them which are raised in Christ for there is but one Flesh of men The Apostle haveing Heere First shewed that the same bare body that is sowne shall not so be raised up againe then he sheweth what manner of body it shal be in the resurrection and wherein it shall differ from that wch was sowen and died In the 40. vers saith Thappostle there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies and in the 49. vers wee shall ●eare the ●mage of the heavenly Heere is set 〈◊〉 with what manner of bodies the dead are rased and 〈◊〉 being the 〈◊〉 fruits of the dead with such a body was he raysed then followeth how the heavenly body and the earthly body do differ in glo● the earthly body is corrupt dish●norable we●ke naturall and mortall The heavenly body i● incorrupt glorious stronge spirituall immortall The image of the earthly body wee have from the First Adam wch was made saith Thappostle a l●v●ing soule that is naturall and earthly The ymage of the heavenly body all that are of Christ shall have from the last Adam a quic●ing spirit that is spirituall heavenly wch is the ymage of Christs glorious as body after his resurrection Thus wee see the whole d●st and intent of Thappostl in all this scripture is to prove the resurrection from the dead and how the dead rise and with what manner of bodies and all this by Christs death and resurrection because as he died and risse againe in the fair● order vers 23. with the same bodies vers ●9 shall all that are of Christ use againe proveing hereby also that Christ ●d a naturall earthly and mortall body sowen in co●●uption in dishonor and in weakeraised in incorruption in glory in power a spirituall body Heavenly immortall what can be more plainely set downe if men that have eies would see and would not wincke with their eies why will men pervert the scriptures to their owne distruction takeing Heere a peece of a sentence and there a peece and never lookeing to the scope and sence And thus much according to our smale talent to shewe the error of them that are fallen to so deepe distruction as to say God was turned into flesh and so his death and all his sufferings were but in shewe and to say them if by the grace of God it may be that are not fallen so far And now to speake to them that knowe not from whence Christ had his flesh they see it proved that from heaven he could not have it for then there could not possibly have bene infirmitie in it They see further or through the grace of God might se that Christ had a naturall earthly mortall body and that there is but one Flesh of men will they still remaine ignorant and doubting whence Christ had his flesh● then do they still remaine in sinne Let them therefore leave their doubting wch is through their ignorance if they looke for salvation by Christ and let them knowe and beleeve from the scriptures of God That Christ is of the seed of David and of the Isralites according to the Flesh Rom. 2.3 And 9.5 The Sonne of Mary the virgine made of hi● substance Gal. 4.4 And so doth this agree with the First pr●mis●e made concerning Christ Gen. 3.15 VVhere ● is spoken by God That the seed of the woman shall breake the serpents head without wch knowledg and Faith no man shall ever be saved ffor there is no salvation but by Christ the promissed seed of the woman Those the●fore am●●● you that will not knowe and beleeve that Christ is the seed of the woman conceyued in hi● wombe by the power of the most high overshadowing hir shall never be saved by Christ the promissed seed of the woman This then is your great sinne that you suffer manie amongst you that mainteyne a false faith concerning where Christ had his Flesh and you approve
become a hissinge of men and a reproach vnto all the godly and is made a scorne of the wicked a iust reward for all that fall away More over this wicked man Mr. Smyth hath professed and maintened with all manifestation of faith and confidence that Christ tooke his flesh of Mary affirming that all the world was not able to aunswere that place to the Hebr. 2.14 where it is said forasmuch as the childeren are partakers of flesh and blood he also himself likewise tooke part with them as also that place Gen. 3.15 The seed of the woman shall breake the serpents head but now he is fallen from this following a device of some of you He cannot find in all the scriptures where Christ had the first matter of his flesh but the second matter which is his nourishment that he had of Mary saieing further that if he had the strength of many men he would labor to cast the contrary out of the Church for being ā article of faith he hath taught that Christes myracles sufferinges and death yea his hanging vpon the crosse were all typicall and Carnall Comparing Christ flesh to his garments and therefore not to be striven about So like wise is he fallen from the faith of justification by Christs righteousnes onely to inherent righteousnes in himself so wi●l he be justified partly by his owne righteousnes either not standing need of all Christs righteousnes orels not holding his righteousnes sufficient for him And he is also fallen from the faith in the point of Magistracie professing he knew not that he differed from you in anie thinge Further more this wicked man Mr. Smyth hath professed and taught and his confederates had learned That God is a spirit and that he wil be worshipped wholly in spirit and truth And he and they knewe that the Appostle 1. Cor. 14.14.15.16 saith If I pray in a strainge tōgue my spirit praieth but myne vnderstanding is without fruit I will pray therefore with the spirit but I will pray with the vnderstanding also I will singe with the spirit but I will singe with the vnderstanding also Els how shall they that vnderstand not say Amen and vers 11. Except I knowe the power of the voice I shal be vnto him that speaketh a Barbarian This man not with standing when he had himself but a little vnderstanding of your language and the rest of his confedracie when some of them had not anie vnderstanding to be spoken of and divers none at all neither yet have have and do come to worshipp with you being barbarians vnto you and say Amen els what do they there not knowing whether you blesse or curse The ignorant Papists shall stand vp in judgment against these men yea the Idolatrous Heathens who have not knowne heard the thinges that these men have knowne and hard Of such men as this and they that are fallen with him speakes Th-appostle Iude. VVoe be vnto them for they have followed the way of ●ayne and are cast away by the deceipt of 〈…〉 in the gaine saying of ●ore 〈…〉 your persons in admiration because of advantage which you might all right well see ●ee doubt not but some of you do see for you knowe then vnderstanding in your language and for what cause can you ymagine that they should ●unne to gaze at you Th-appostle 1. Cor. 14.19 saith I had rather speake to the Church or congregation fyve words with myne vnderstanding that I might also instruct others then Ten thousand words in a ●●●a●nge tongue And doth not The-appostle reach heere that it is better to heare fyve words in the Church or congregation with vnderstanding then Ten-thousand words in a strai●g tongue But these men with a sort of ween on that are void of vnderstanding had rather heare in your Church or congregation fyve words without anie vnderstanding then Ten thousand with vnderstanding in a congregation or Church gathered together by the preaching of the gospell of Iesus Christ and baptized into his name vpon the confession of their faith and sinnes This they knewe was our begininge but your begining they knewe not neither can knowe and if you had anie other begining it is not according to gods word but that is all one to them they have not regarded how you began in the faith nor how you stand in the faith which if they had not forsaken all religion they would have had regard of but religion was not nor is not theire marke that they aymed at as you may easilie descerne by these their wilfull b●ind courses where into you have ledd them by your blind Succession Now you and betwixt you and vs and let all the godly on ear●n consider whether you have walked vprightly herein or no and whether you have not sought your selves and not the glorie of god nor our building vp in the faith And thus wee leave the Succession of your baptisme putting you in remembrance that vvee have shewed you that by this your opinion you make Iohn baptist his example a perticuler example for one man for what man you cannot tell but whose ever can first light of it he hath the pre heminence and this you ymagine was your first beginner which you shall never be able to prove except you can knowe all thinges that are done vnder the sunne but all this in you is vanitie of vanities as wee trust manie of you will easilie see and wee wish all may And for this people who have ●unne after your inventions of whome wee would not once have made mention but the better to bring you to the sight of the greatnes of your sinne and to sett them out for an example that others might be warned thereby which vvee desire that they may be vvhen they shall heare of such a people vvhose knovvled gifts and graces vvere great and vvho vvalked preferred to vvalke strictly by the rules of Christ vnder his ●●●k and now are they Behall walking by no rule of Christ not being vnder his yock haveing disclaymed themselves for haveing anie power to the ho●●e thinges and have given all to you all their religion being onely to come and gaze at you vvho speake to them in a st●aing tongue vvhich is given for a signe n●t vnto them that beleeve but vnto them that beleeve not 1. Cor. 14.22 And in that they are thus left in confusion not knovveing nor careing vvhether to go vvee have cru●e to magnifie the name of god in that he hath confounded them in their vvaies that vvould have confounded 〈◊〉 vvay of truth and vvee have cruse to blesse god that hath prevented you and kept you from makeing them to be one with you whereby you had strengthned thē in their evill enlarged your owne sinne excedingly Let vs now proceed to the Succession of your Church and ministry for wee cannot conceive which way you wil be able ever to make anie shewe or cullor that this vnbaptized man should have commission