against them but allowed and practised a multitude of Ceremonies Superstitions and Popish trash 4. To say they had the harps of God in their hands here again I am at a loss Whilst the Jews were in Babylon they hanged their harps upon the willows Psal 137.2 Indeed when the Lord turned again the Captivity of Sion then was their mouth filled with laughter and their tongue with singing Psal 126.1 2. I had thought that the harps of God come not into the hands of Saints till after the rising of the Witnesses But by this it seems whether before or after the times are all one as to Victory Triumph Singing c. onely in measure and degree some oddes Poor encouragement and comfort for such who expect to have all things new 5. I think what is said of Waldo Grosted Luther and others as to be the called chosen and faithful followers of Lamb redeemed from men first-fruits to God and to the Lamb c. it is more then their due if referred to Rev. 17.14 and Chap. 14.3 4 5. It is said of Job that he was a perfect man upright one that feared God and eschewed evil Job 1.1 Now howsoever the like may be said of others and truly too yet it would be absurd to say that in that Text they are so describ'd Whatsoever these men were in their Generation I say to give them their due to the full none of the Characters in Rev. 14 15. belong to them viz. the matter there it relates not to them Besides it is a great darkning of the holy Prophecies and destroys all Order to apply to the last times things pass'd many hundred years before Answ And yet 4. I do not finde a perfection or full answer to these Characters in every point as having the full victory and triumph over the Beast till the Armageddon-battel be over or the seventh Vial. So that for these and some other Reasons I think your fifth is of no force Repl. 1. Seeing neither Waldo Grosted Luther c. had the Characters and so consequently were none of the seven Angels it is nothing to our matter whether there shall be perfection and full victory or not till the Armageddon-battel But 2. To give some light here according to the light I have received That which you call perfection or full victory as to the Characters is to be considered two ways 1. Particular and thus the effects of every Vial shall be perfect and full according to the subject not one Vial to carry on and perfect what was left by the other unfinished 2. Universal that is when the last Vial is poured out all is done as Rev. 16.17 It hath been thought but whence taken I know not the first and second Vials not being full and perfect the third and fourth falling on the subjects of the former are to finish what the other left undone and this is one great cause of mens mistake about the beginning of the Vials which is neither so nor so Answer to the sixth Reason This seems somewhat considerable and genuous yea at first sight to have much force yet I must confess I am not satisfied with it For 1. I think the Tabernacle of the Testimony is opened gradually as the Witness or Testimony rise out of which the Angels of the Vials go Rev. 15. So that in every generation such a Tabernacle hath been opened with the Testimony against the Beast in proportion more or less whence the Vials have issued and therefore I must deny the Assumption of your Argument and say The Tabernacle of the Testimony was in a degree opened in Luther's time in the Brownists time and is at this day against the Beast in a proportionable purity and spirituality of Worship amongst the remnant of the womans seed and so Wickliff Huss Luther Zuinglius the Puritans so called Independents and others and now the holy and upright ones called The Fifth Monarchy-men were in the Tabernacle of the Testimony worshipping whence the Angels of the Vials come out Repl. 1. If I understand any thing of this Answer it implies 2 things 1. The Testimony of the Tabernacle in heaven was never shut whilest the sack-cloth Witnesses prophesied the 1260 dayes for if in every generation such a Tabernacle hath been opened with the Testimony against the Beast in proportion more or less c. admit it were gradually The Conclusion cannot be denied 2. That the pouring out of the Vials hath been ever since the sack-cloth Witnesses began to prophesie and so began with the 1260 dayes Neither is it strange that such things should pass for taking the Vials to begin before the rising of the Witnesses it cannot be avoided 2. Now the Reason I conceive of this mistake is not observing though the Scripture is cleer in it the distinction which the Holy Ghost makes between the Temple and the Tabernacle of the Testimony It is true the Witnesses and the Woman in the Wilderness had a Temple to worship God in and an Altar which is Christ by which to have access to the Father See Rev. 11.1 which seems to be the same Chap. 12.6 14. viz. the place prepared of God for their feeding and nourishment But for the Tabernacle of the Testimony that is the innermost part of the Tabernacle called the holy of holiest and the most holy place where the 2 Tables were put in the Ark Deut. 10.5 1 King 8.5 and that Ark placed in the innermost part of the Tabernacle or Temple 1 King 8.6 Heb. 9.3 4. that remained shut neither could men see into it out of the Court or Temple But 3. and more plain the Answerer is mistaken in taking the Tabernacle of the Testimony for the Temple for these are not only two and distinct in sound but as much in sence and signification What is said in the Answer of Lutherans Brownists Independents Puritans c. it is thus far true That in every Generation a Temple hath been opened that is some good people more or less seeing the abominable Idolatries and Blasphemies of the Beast have separated from the same according to their present Light and being thus far out of Babylon have joyned together in a more holy Communion And further as the Answerer saith very well this hath been gradually for if we consider this Temple that is either Church Ministery Worship or Government we shall finde it hath been gradual indeed both in eschewing the Errors of Antichrist and practising the Truths of the Gospel But now for the Tabernacle of the Testimony this is another thing within the Temple and seldom seen and by the High-Priest alone which I understand to be the opening of the Prophesies of the last time as Daniel and John's Visions such as these Dan. 12.4 9 11 12. Rev. 11.2 12.6 14. 13.13 22.10 Heb. 2.3 It is not for you saith Christ to know the times or the seasons c. Act. 1.7 Now it is not meant as if the Question there propounded by
and over his image mark name c. It is true in the former sence there were many of Gods people which in the time of the Beasts reign received not his mark c. but that any of them during the fourty and two months got the Victory over the Beast or over his image mark name c. to this I cannot assent Neither is their opinion well bottomed I speak as I think who hold that this victory over the Beast and singing the song of Moses and the song of the Lamb to be before the rising of the Witnesses even the time that they prophesied in sackcloth and whilst the woman was still in the wilderness Under favour I think that their opinion is better grounded I speak as to consonancie of parallel Scriptures who taking the Witnesses already risen do carry this victory over the Beast and the song of Moses and of the Lamb to the time of their rising and so begin the Vials But to hold the Witnesses not risen nor the woman out of the wilderness and yet to hold the victory over the Beast past the song of Moses and of the Lamb to be sung some hundred yeers ago and so to begin the Vials this to me seems little less then evident * That the woman whilst she abode in the wilderness and the Witnesses prophesying in sackcloth should sing the song of Moses and the Lamb it seems a contradiction yet I see not how such as hold some of the Vials poured out and yet the woman not out of the wilderness nor the Witnesses risen can avoid it contradiction Reas 6 Sixthly My opinion is that none of the seven last plagues or Vials are yet poured forth nor will be till after the rising of the Witnesses for this reason namely because none of the seven Angels come forth with their golden Vials until the Tabernacle of the Testimony is opened in heaven Mede perceiving the place to be so directly against him and others who hold some of the Vials poured out puts it off thus Truly saith he that which is there said of the Temple of the Tabernacle of the Testimony in heaven that appertaineth not to the beginning but to the event of the Vials But by his leave he takes more then the place allows him Rev. 15.5 But that part of the Tabernacle of the Testimony is to be shut all the time of the Witnesses their prophesying in sackcloth as may be gathered from Rev. 11.1 with vers 19. Hence this Argument might be fram'd No Angel is to come forth with his golden Vial till the Tabernacle of the Testimony in heaven be opened But the Tabernacle of the Testimony is not to be opened till after the rising of the Witnesses Therefore no Angel with his golden Vial is to come forth till after the rising of the Witnesses The proof of the Argument are the Scriptures before viz. Rev. 15.5 with Chap. 11. vers 1 19. Now if any do think that the four last Angels shall come out from the Temple opened in heaven and not the first three such an opinion is against the Text expresly which saith that the seven Angels come out of the Temple vers 6. Neither do I know any ground they have who think that the Angels pouring out the four last Vials shall have more light zeal faith holiness c. then the former had There is no such thing to be gathered from the Text. But if we may use liberty of conjecture I see no reason supposing pre-eminence why the first should not have it as he that fights the Enemy and engageth first shews himself the most valiant and best-deserving Souldier Reas 7 Neither seventhly do I think that the effects of any of the Vials which some suppose are poured out make good what is said Rev. 15.4 For thy judgements are made Manifest The place to me hath much more in it then what followed the Doctrines writings of Grostead Wickliff Huss Luther Melancthon c. or the Swethen wars or the Parliament in England For Gods judgements notwithstanding what hath been yet done remain still dark doubtfull disputeable c. especially to the world wherein his Iudgements shall be Manifest in the effects of the Vials As the Egyptians under their plagues though hardned in sin yet acknowledged the finger of God upon them Exo. 8.19 So the followers of the Beast when the Vials are poured out notwithstanding their blaspheming God and not repenting to give him glory shall see the hand of God lifted up be ashamed for their envie at his people Isa 26.11 So manifest at this time will his judgments be 2 Tim. 3.9 But hitherto the * Should we in the particulars consider begining either at Grostead Armachan Luther c. or where else and come down to our own times very little can be said as to Gods Judgements upon the Antichristians yet Manifested Neither did the Swethen wars nor Ours signifie much as to what should be Manifested in the effects of every Vial being poured out providentiall appearances Actings of God have been so darke and hidden his movings so forward backward I mean as to his judgements that should we begin at Grostead Armachan Luther or anywhere else since the rise of the Beast and come down to this time there hath been very little of Gods Judgements yet Manifested to his own people much lesse to the Enemie And hence it is that Babylon saith in her heart I sit a Queen and am no widow shall see no sorrow Rev. 18.7 Yea hence it is that the Antichristians in their writings and ordinarie discourses doe stiffly maintain that Gods judgements have been as manifest and still are upon the witnesses the woman in the wildernesse and all parties opposing them as they are in respect of them Now howsoever this may be denyed yet hitherto we have not had matter nor the cause so on our side as by the judgments of God against them to put them to silence But confident I am the effects of all the Vials shall be such the 1. 2. 3. as well as the rest in the manifestation of Gods Judgements against the great whore and all her helpers that the righteous shall see it and rejoyce and all iniquitie shall stop her mouth Psa 107.42 Reas 8 Eighthly It is said Rev. 11.3 I will give power unto my two witnesses and they shall Prophesie 1260 days clothed in sackcloth neither did they put off their sackcloth till they had finished their Testimony ver 7. But these Angels which pour out the last plagues even all 7 have put off their sackcloth and are clothed with pure and white linen Rev. 15.6 hence it must needs follow if I have any understanding of the glorious prophesies to be fulfilled in the last times that neither * If any shall object that Grostead Armachan Husse Luther c. in one respect wore sackcloth and in another respect had fine linen I answer In my opinion this
Beasts reigned Neither lastly can it be shewed in my opinion that ever the Churches of the Saints since the rise of Antichrist to this day have had occasion through any deliverance or Victory to song the Song of Moses and of the Lamb. Quest. 4 Fourthly That some of these Vials should be poured out in the preaching of the Gospel by Wickliff Husse Luther c. Others by Parliaments Armies Navies c. Though it be so taken yet I do not see any Reason for it for their opinion to me seems better grounded I mean as to order who apply all the seuen last Plagues either to the (a) I would have this thing wel consider'd why we should understand in preaching of the gospel Vials plagues to be poured out preaching of the Gospel onely or onely to temporal Judgments executed by Civil Powers But to understand one Viall poured out in a Spiritual way another in a Civil way here I desire proof as being unsatisfied Quest. 5 Fifthly That the effect of the first Viall whether by Grostead Armachan Wickliff Luther c. poured out should no further extend then to the discovering of some particulars of the grosser sort of Idolatry as Purgatory Mass Penance Corporal Presence Praying to Saints Pilgrimages Indulgences c. with a Reformation of some people from the practice of such Corruptions Many gross Lyes and Errors of the Beast neither discovered nor reproved at the same time by the persons before named This I question because when any Viall is poured out wheresoever it falls it shall (b) That any of the vials should be like a net which holds some of the greater fish lets the lesser goe through the holes I am not of that opinion Isa 13.9 16 Ps 137.9 neither do I think that any reformation which hath been formerly in Church or State is to be brought under any of the Vials break the Kingdome of Antichrist fully and wholly I say not some part of it but extirpate all his Idolatries and Blasphemies root and branch The like may be said concerning applying other Vialls whether to the Wars of Germany or since here in England The truth is so much Idolatry and Superstition is unshaken even to this day where the Vials are said to fall as the subjects of them as I have ground to think that nothing yet hath been done sutable to the nature and effect of any Viall Quest. 6 Sixthly whereas it is said Rev. 15.8 And the Temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power and no man was able to enter into the Temple till the seven plagues of the seven Angels were fulfilled First If by smoke we understand the wrath of God inflicted upon the Antichristians for their wicked Idolatry as some do The question then is How it can be said that since the Vials began to be poured out their darkness and blindeness hath been more and greater then before But secondly If by the Temple filled with smoke from the glory of God c. the Spirit alludes to the history of the Tabernacle which in the dedication thereof was wholly filled with a Cloud of the glory of the Lord so as Moses could not enter into it Exo. 40.33 34. And to the history of the Temple which likewise at the dedication was filled with the Cloud of the glory of God so as the Priests could not stand to minister so long as the glory of Jehovah filled the house I say if the place be thus applied as most do and that filling to be a testimony and signe of Gods glorious presence and approbation Then here is signified a pouring out of the Spirit upon the Angels before they go forth as tarrying in the Temple as the Disciples did at Jerusalem untill they should be endued with power from on high Luke 24.59 Indeed this great promise of the Father concerning the sending of the Comforter to teach us all things and to bring all things to our remembrance Joh. 14.26 is by Saints now prayed for and waited for even day and night but as yet that Spirit is not (c) It is my opinion that no Vial shall be poured out until the saints have the spirit poured out upon them which was promised to be given in the last days now if we have not that spirit yet I may well conclude Grostead Armachan Wickliff Luther c. had it not in their dayes given forth from the glory of God and from his power Neither probably shall we receive it until the woman be out of the wilderness Who is this that cometh out of the Wilderness like pillars of smoke perfumed with myrrhe and frankincense with all powders of the Merchant Behold his bed which is Solomons threescore valiant men are about it of the valiant of Israel c. Go forth O ye daughters of Zion and behold King Solomon with the Crown wherewith his mother crowned him in the day of his espousals and in the day of the gladness of his heart Song 3.6 7 11. Quest. 7 Seventhly Whereas upon the opening of the seventh Seal the first Angel of the seven which had the seven Trumpets sounded Rev. 8.1 7. The question is Whether observing order the first Viall of the seventh is to be poured out till after the sounding of the first Trumpet If so then we are not to begin the Vials until after the rising of the Witnesses as is manifest Rev. 11.12 15. Such as think some Vials are poured out do likewise hold that the (d) Brightman holds that the seventh trumpet sounded in the year 1558. seventh Trumpet hath already sounded But to grant that some Vials are past and the seventh Trumpet not yet sounded here ought to be first good consideration if we will not be children in understanding That the seventh Trumpet hath not yet sounded I think it must be granted by all who hold the Witnesses not risen But that any of the Vials are to be poured out till after the sounding of the seventh Trumpet truly in my opinion whosoever shall humbly and soberly observe the Prophesie shall finde little ground to think otherwise In the dayes of the voyce of the seventh Angel when he shall begin to sound the mystery of God should be finished as he hath declared to his servants the Prophets Rev. 13.7 Now unless by finishing the mystery here is meant the pouring out the seven last Plagues I know not what is to be understood It is said before That there should be time no longer ver 6. that is upon the sounding of the last Trumpet the seven Angels which had the seven last Plagues should obeying the heavenly voyce go their wayes and pour out the Vials of the wrath of God upon the earth and so no more time viz. for the Beast and the false Prophet or any other wicked ones to oppress the Lords people whether Jews or Gentiles Quest 8 Eighthly I desire to know Whether the seven last Plagues do not
contemporize with the third Woe Rev. 8.13 If so then no Vial is yet poured out For the third Woe is not to be until after the rising of the Witnesses Rev. 11.11 14. Again it is said Behold the third Woe cometh quickly which is not meant as I conceive of shortness of time betwixt this and the former Woe but of a speedy and quick dispatch as to the great work of God at this time As if he should say When this Woe comes upon the world which I take to be no other then the pouring out of all the Vials it shall be though sharp yet short not for space of time any way in comparison either to the first or second Woe And truly as I have said before howsoever some good men do give many hundred years to the time of the Vials yet for my part I think otherwise to wit that after there is a beginning they shall be all poured out and the work finished in less then fifty years Behold the third Woe cometh quickly Reader Thou mayest well perceive in framing these Questions that I expect no Answer from an Adversary but if any answer be made from a friend or brother one that seeks with the like spirit after the understanding of the times to know what Israel ought to do And should these Reasons upon examination be found not sufficient to prove the matter for which they are brought yet I shall have comfort in what I have done considering what PUBLICK ADVANTAGE may follow upon this occasion as to have this Great Point the more diligently searcht into I may well call it a GREAT POINT for I know nothing more necessary for Saints who desire to follow Christ fully in the present work of their Generation then to have clear light and knowledge concerning the Vials that is Whether any be past as is the common received opinion or none of them yet poured out according to that small portion which I have in the knowledge of holy things That which I see not teach thou me If I have done iniquity I will not offend any more Job 34.32 FINIS An Advertisement to the Reader AFter I had sent the former Reasons to the Press there came this Answer to my hands It is true I had a long time expected it but hearing nothing from my Friend about it I thought good to publish that little by it self as intending if I should see a providence in it to set forth some thing larger upon the Vials Now to have the Reasons printed and to keep the Answer by me in secret though I can truly say I knew nothing of the Answer till after the Reasons were at the Press yet to conceal it it might be judg'd not lovely and of good report And therefore I have published the Answer with a short Reply as it came to my hands Thus. I Shall bring out of my poor treasure which I have received in answer to your precious lines Reasons and Quaeres which were very seasonable and acceptable to me and not at all offensive troublesome or unprofitable to me although I cannot as yet concurre with your Opinion therein Answer to the 1. Reason For 1. I see no ground for that opinion which makes the beginning of the pouring out of the Vials to be at the same time with the Witnesses rising and the 144000 mustering upon Mount Sion And although some godly men say so that the 144000 and Vials begin together yet it is no more Argument to me then that the 1000 years Rev. 20. are begun and were begun with Constantine because some godly men say so 2. Nor doth the order of the matter in my eye manage it For the holy Ghost tells us in Chap. 15.1 of another signe viz. seven Angels so that it was another distinct from that in Chap. 14 c. Reply to the 1. Answ Rep. 1. The strength of the Reason lies not in what godly men do say but in the ground and proof they have for what they say And here I finde nothing in the Answer why it should not be so 2. Because two signes therefore distinct as not to be applied to one time This will not follow for in Rev. 12.1 the Primitive Church is represented unto John by a wonder or signe in heaven and in ver 3. there appeared another signe behold a great red Dragon c. the which later is taken for the Roman-heathen Emperors persecuting the said Church at the same time So Pharaoh in his dreams had two signes yet not another distinct for both signified one thing Gen. 41.22 32. But 2. it is called another signe because that in Chap. 14. respecteth persons more then things the latter things more then persons In the former we have the instruments by whom the Beasts dominion shall be destroyed in the latter the work it self that is how and in what manner the Judgement written shall be executed But 3. why should these words viz. another signe be understood distinct from that in Chap. 14. seeing in that Chapter there is no mention made of any signe More probably therefore they should be carried back to Rev. 12.1 as another or distinct from that signe there being no other that I know Answ And as some say I do think he brings there exegetically with what Chap. 11 12 13 14. mention but darkly and closely of the plagues which shall come upon the Beasts dominion gradually by the two Witnesses and so the order and place of Chap. 15 16 is at Rev. 11.6 where the two Witnesses smite the earth with plagues according to Chap. 16. 1 2. Pour out your Vials on the earth and so Rev. 11.6 they turn waters into bloud according to Chap. 16.3 4. the rivers and fountains of waters become bloud and this was before the Resurrection or Slaughter So that both our Grounds and Order seem good for what can these plagues wherewith the two Witnesses smite the Antichristian earth and waters be but Vials and the last plagues which are to fall upon the Beasts dominion Repl. First I think the Prophecies of this Book are the more dark to us through our mis-placing of things and carrying them disorderly forward and backward whereas the holy Ghost keeps a better Method For thus in brief I take it The Witnesses being treated of Chap. 11. and the wilderness-state of the woman Chap. 12. he proceeds to the Tyranny and Idolatry of the Beast Chap. 13. and so ends the whole History or Acts of the two Witnesses Woman and Beast viz. as to the 42 months or 1260 days What follows from the beginning of Chap. 14. they are things afterwards to come to pass that is The Witnesses being risen and the Woman out of the wilderness in the 144000 standing with the Lamb on mount Sion Chap. 14. the Lord now will send forth the Rod of his strength out of Sion Chap. 15 16. But because the carrying on of this great work cannot be without understanding the Prophecies of
the four hundred yeers were expired which the Lord speaks of unto Abraham Gen. 15.13 the iniquity of the Amorites was then full so the fourty and two months being out the Beasts dominion is ripe As a field of Corn is not cut down assoon as it is ripe neither is it cut down all together but by degrees so Babylon though ripe at the rising of the Witnesses the fourty and two months of her reign being ended nevertheless as the Beasts dominion shall not be destroyed all at one time so there will be some preparation to the work as Rev. 14.6 7 8 9. and 18.1 2 3 4. as well as the execution of it True it is if we consider the times of Waldo Wickliff Grostead Armachan c. the harvest then was not ripe and therefore they could not be any of the seven Angels Rev. 15. for the whole dominion of the Beast must be ripe before any of the seven last plagues will be poured out Answ 4. Moreover if this your interpretation were the genuine sense I suppose every Vial would be an universal Vial as on the whole earth but it is very apparent that every Vial is not an universal Vial nor any until the Armageddon-day And therefore some think upon good grounds this in Rev. 14.14 of the harvest of the whole earth and that of the Armageddon Rev. 19. contemporize Repl. 1. If any such thing may be infer'd from the Reason it is otherwise then I hold for I hold the contrary Indeed this I have said and am still of the opinion 1. Though no Vial be universal yet wheresoever any falls whether first second third c. the effects thereof shall be such on the subject where it is poured that whatsoever Idolatry and Tyranny is thereby suppress'd and put down the same shall be there no more 2. Though I think no Vial universal yet this I think that by earth Rev. 16.2 is not meant the grosser parts of Popery viz. Masses Pilgrimages Indulgences Transubstantiation praying to Saints c. the word earth is often used in this Book and elsewhere but never to my knowledge is it taken in such a sense viz. for half or part of the whole And therefore as I said though no Vial be universal as extending everywhere and in all places yet in some sort universal that is wheresoever any Vial falls not onely there shall the grosser and greater parts of Idolatry be destroyed but the finer and lesser as some call it that is all the fornications of the Whore root and branch As for the present I see nothing yet that looks like a Vial. We may take up our complaint in the Prophet's words Like as a woman with childe that draweth near the time of her delivery is in pain and cryeth out in her pangs so have we been in thy sight O Lord we have been with childe we have been in pain we have as it were brought forth winde we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen Isai 26.17 18. 3. That some think the harvest of the whole earth Rev. 14.14 and that of Armageddon Rev. 19. contemporize it is true but that it is as you say upon good ground this I question For the holy Ghost there makes a plain distinction between the harvest and the vintage and the former to be meant of the Beasts dominion which shall perish under the five first Vials the later which begins at vers 17. belongs to the Armageddon-battel Rev. 19. and falls under the seventh Vial and part of the sixth Answ 5. And lastly I think there is a mistake in what you say in the margin that the 144000 are the Angels of the Vials seeing the holy Ghost speaks of them besides as the remnant of the womans seed Rev. 12. ult and the called faithful and chosen Rev. 17.15 who I know shall go along with the execution and serve in it but he speaks in the singular number of Angel to every Vial and never above two as in the third Vial. So that I neither incline to the two Witnesses as I said before with whom the remnant go along and to whom the power of the plagues is given as oft as they will Rev. 11.6 Repl. First as I said even now I take the 144000 to be an Universal Type representing the persons of all the Saints who after the rising of the Witnesses shall follow the Lamb in executing the vengeance of the Lord and the vengeance of his Temple upon Babylon the people whom he shall create for his praise Psal 102.18 that is the Angels Chap. 14 15 16. So the called chosen and faithful Chap. 17. 14. and the Angel Chap. 18. 1 2 c. it is the same number that were sealed Chap. 6.4 and why not the like significant Type 2. If I do not mistake you the remnant of the womans seed and the one hundred fourty and four thousand you make to be all one But to this I agree not for 1. The War in Rev. 12. ult is the Dragon 's this the Lamb's 2. There he first fights but here others begin with him 3. That War seems to be before the rising of the Witnesses The Dragon not prevailing against the woman in the wilderness falls upon her seed nearer home a remnant which did not at all flie into the wilderness the woman being weak and therefore call'd the weaker vessel 1 Pet. 3.7 and unable to make resistance against the Dragons wrath in the Beast seeks by flight to save her self But the remnant of her seed that is a generation after through providence have oportunity and advantage to withstand him without escaping in such a way And this war of the Dragon with the remnant of the womans seed Rev. 12. ult may probably have some reference to the Swethen wars in Germany so unto ours and to the Civil wars in France the Netherlands c. But 3. I do not well know what you mean by saying The holy Ghost speaks in the singular number of Angel to every Vial c. Do you mean that the 144000 cannot be the Angels Chap. 16. because the number is too great If you understand as I think you do by the first Angel all the Witnesses from Waldo to Luther it will exceed by far the number here Besides though I hold the seven Angels to be a part of that company yet I do not say the seven Angels are the whole number much less that every Angel takes in the one hundred fourty and four thousand Lastly whereas you say I rather incline to the two Witnesses c. for my part I think if their persons work and time be duely weighed by you your inclination will be some other way Answ 1. The preaching of the Gospel is as you say very sweet and yet for all that very bitter and full of plague in the effects thereof to the enemies of Christ for so was Christs own preaching a great plague to the
much in words as matter if well considered 4. In Chap. 16.4 the Angel poured out his Vial upon the waters and they became blood but Chap. 11. the Witnesses have power over the waters to turn them into blood It is not said they smote the waters or that the waters were turned into blood What may be gathered is one thing but the phrases are not alike 5. If the places are so alike in phrases why are they made so unlike in exposition The first Vial is applied to Waldo Wickliff Luther as smiting the Beast with their mouthes and pens the second and third to Souldiers and Armies and so killing men with their swords and guns Answ 3. Because the Egyptian plagues alluded to were begun by the two Witnesses Moses Aaron before the end of the Captivity or sojourning in Egypt and it is very evident this hath such an allusion Rev. 11.8 because the holy Ghost calls this fourty and two months Egypt also Repl. If the Egyptian plagues by Moses and Aaron the two Witnesses were all poured out before the end of the captivity then following the Allusion all the Vials should be poured out whilst the Witnesses are in sackcloth And to saythe truth to take it otherwise it destroys the life and light of the Argument For if the Vials begun before the rising of the Witnesses then must they be all poured out before the end of the fourty and two months as the ten plagues by the two Witnesses Moses and Aaron were before the end of their Captivity or sojourning in Egypt Thus you see by dividing the Vials as some to go before the rising and some after is contrary to the Allusion For if some were then were all but taking it that none were so there is in my opinion both reason and truth as to the Allusion viz. as Moses and Aaron the two risen Witnesses not in sackcloth neer or about the end of the four hundred and thirty years plagued the Egyptians so the forty and two months of the Beasts tyranny being going out the Spirit of life from God shall enter into his Witnesses for the pouring out of the last plagues upon the Beasts dominion Answ 4. For that the remnant I humbly conceive are to strike in and not to begin to succeed and follow not to direct and lead to execute not to prepare but your opinion makes 144000 or the remnant to begin and the two Witnesses to fall in with them which I see not Repl. Either you or I are here in some mistake both to the Remnant and Witnesses For 1. I do not take the Remnant as you do to be the one hundred fourty and four thousand but as I said before part of the womans seed which never fled into the wilderness against whom the dragon makes war Rev. 12.17 and this before the rising of the Witnesses and so in likelihood refers to the wars in France Holland Germany Britain c. 2. I take the one hundred fourty and four thousand and the risen Witnesses to be all one For as you said well it is a testimony or Witness not persons that is slain the which Testimony or Truth that is the glorious Cause and Interest of Christ riseth and lives again by a spirit of life from God entered into the one hundred fourty and four thousand Answ 5. For that all the hitherto-plagues upon the Beasts dominion do signifie nothing if they were not the matter of the Vials Repl. 1. The conclusion will not follow For whilst the Israelites were in Egypt no doubt the Lord plagued the Egyptians at several times yet they were none of the ten last plagues To come nearer when Abbeys and Monasteries were put down in Hen. 8. his Reign this was a plague upon the Beasts dominion and signified something So hath he been plagued in France Scotland Bohemia the Netherlands yet reckoned no Vials Besides what did the Goths Hunnes Vandals c. but pour out plagues upon the Beasts dominion 2. That they are said to be the last plagues it clearly shews that there were plagues upon the Beasts dominion before For the distinction between former and later must be understood of the Beasts dominion as the subject that is several plagues should be poured upon it before the seven last Plagues or Vials begin Answ 6. And lastly the subjects of the Vials Rev. 16.2 3 4 5 c. of the first the second and the third as the holy Ghost in Scripture opens them have been under the very same wrath mentioned in the first second and third Vials so that I am much perswaded that they are begun by a Scripture-clearness Repl. That which first gave me occasion to question the beginning of the Vials it was that I could not see neither the subjects nor the effects of the Vials as the holy Ghost opens them Rev. 16. under the same wrath as they are interpreted neither the first second nor third there being nothing yet done in my opinion that carries the character of VIAL-WORK upon it 1. That the earth should be taken for the grosser part of Popery where do we finde in Scripture a ground to raise such an Exposition 2. That the subject earth should be universal and yet in many places this gross earth never mov'd but to this day remains as much and as bad as ever 3. That Waldo Wickliff Armachan c. should be Vial-Angels a thing no way sutable to the description of the holy Ghost Rev. 15. So again for the second and third Vials I am not satisfied as they are applied First why the second to the Swedish war in Germany the third to ours in Britain Or 2. as others why the second to the Romish discipline or Hierarchy in England Anno Dom. 1641. the third to fall upon England the Low-Countries and France I do not see Scripture-clearness for these things Nor 3. do I understand what difference there is between the earth and sea as they are expounded for I think the Romish Hierarchy viz. Popes Cardinals Archbishops Bishops Monks Friers c. with all that rabble root and branch as gross earthly superstitions as their Mass their Crosses Purgatory Penance Pilgrimage c. And therefore to make a distinction between Romish doctrine and Romish discipline as two distinct subjects I am not of that opinion but as they rose together so they shall fall together inseparably under one and the same Vial. I confess in things to come as they are secret so we cannot well judge whether men hit or miss in their opinions till they come to pass But in things that are past and so visible here we can say a little more whether men speak pertinently and to purpose I thought to have forborn the Queries but not knowing how it might be taken I have set down the Answers to them A few words to your Queries To the first I answer The one of the living creatures for I like not the name of Beasts nor is it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉
the last time hence Chap. 17. one of the seven Angels which had the Vials shews unto John representing the Church near the time of the end the judgement of the great Whore signifying that these mighty ones whom the Lord hath called for his anger shall have it not onely in their hearts to fulfil his will but what they do shall be knowingly in order thereunto see Rev. 21.9 10. 22.8 Then follows Chap. 18. the total and final desolation of the Beasts dominion fuller and clearer than before for which Chap. 19. there is Hallelujah salvation and glory and honour and power given unto the Lord our God Thus it is a continued History without breach of order onely something concerning the last Vial Chap. 14.19 20. and the Armageddon-battel Chap. 16. is the same with Chap. 19.11 12 13 c. 2. As I see no order in taking the sackcloth-Witnesses Rev. 11. to be any of the seven Angels Chap. 15. so likewise what you say for it to me seems no Ground at all as smiting the earth turning waters into blood c. For the Witnesses before their rising poured out no plagues upon the Earth Sea Fountains c. what they did was no other then did the Prophets of old who pronounced indeed several judgements against the Nations The burden of the Lord upon Babylon Egypt Damascus Nineveh c. and in this sence were set over the Nations and over the Kingdoms to root out and to pull down and to destroy and to throw down c. Jer. 1.10 so to take the wine-cup of fury from the hand of the Lord and to cause all Nations to drink it Jer. 25. but in this they were no Vial-Angels as to the execution of any temporal and real plagues So the sack-cloth-Witnesses in smiting the earth what did they they prophesied against many peoples and nations and tongues and kings Rev. 10.9 10 11. In this way I confess they poured out Vials smote the earth turned waters into bloud c. but not otherwise I might adde how Jerusalem her Walls Temple Sacrifices People c. was smitten and turned into bloud as by Nebuchad-nezzar so by the Prophets too Now we all know this was not done neither at one time nor alike what the later did was by mouth prophetically what the other did was by hand as making good the word of the Lord in the mouth of his Prophets So Joash King of Israel at the Prophet's bidding took arrows and smote on the ground 2 Kings 13.17 18. here was a smiting of the Syrians and victory over them yet so as differing far from the Plagues and Vials afterwards poured out For Application thus The Sackcloth-Witnesses smite the earth and have power over waters to turn them into blood but observe the place this is done in the days of their prophecie Rev. 11.6 evidently shewing that what they did was by prophecie expressed a little before Chap. 10.11 that is they foretold the fall of Babylon Popes Cardinals Bishops Priests Tythes Mass and the rest of her Fornications but here was no execution of the last plagues that was left for others to do afterward viz. seven Angels come out of the Temple c. Rev. 15. But again should I grant which I do not that the smiting of the earth and turning waters into bloud Rev. 11. is for the matter and manner alike with Rev. 16.2 3 4. yet this would not prove the same to be all one in reference either of the Instruments or Time They were Plagues and Vials which were poured out upon the old world Sodom Egypt c. yet we all know they are things distinct and apart But to come nearer in Rev. 8.8 it is said The third part of the sea became bloud are the sackcloth-Witnesses here the instruments Howsoever I do not think there lies much weight meerly in words and phrases yet it is much better in my understanding to refer the Acts of the sackcloth-Witnesses viz. turning 〈◊〉 into blood c. as the effects of the Trumpets rather then of the Vials I have been the larger in this Point because the main Ground which the Answerer and others have in holding the Sackcloth-Witnesses and Vial-Angel all one it is for that in Rev. 11.6 mention is made of turning waters into blood and smiting the earth and something like it for it is but something and very little as I shall shew afterward expressed Chap. 16.2 3 4. Now truly in my apprehension the Foundation is too weak to lay so much weight upon it Lastly that the earth is smitten and waters turned into bloud by Waldo Grosted Armachan Wickliff Huss Luther c. preaching the Word of Truth and so pouring out a Vial and other Vials are poured out by Civil Powers in their Armies Navies c. this is more I think then is in the text For if the Vials are fill'd with the Gospel of the Kingdom then I say there is no War in them if War then no Gospel to take them both ways that cannot be Answ 3. Besides if so be as you say that Chap. 15. 16. begin with the full harvest and vintage mentioned Chap. 14. vers 15 c. then methinks you do not make the Vials and the 144000 in vers 1 2. to contemporize which is your judgement because the 144000 in the former part of the Chapter are up before the full harvest or vintage of the whole earth mentioned in this later part of the Chapter and the first second and third Angels have work to do between the rise of the 144000 and the harvest of the earth ripe But the Vials are begun before the harvest of the whole earth so that this Exposition cannot be the order of the holy Ghost in my judgement Repl. I confess the Truth brings forth no Absurdity or Contradiction neither do I see how any such thing can be fairly concluded from the Reason For 1. I finde not in the Reason where it is said that the 144000 do contemporize with the Harvest and Vintage But 2. Let it be so yet here will follow no Contradiction for though in a sense a man may be said to be before his work as making himself fit and ready for it yet may he and his work be together That the 144000 may be risen before the harvest of the earth is ripe I say suppose this though I hold it not yet may the 144000 contemporize with the harvest as being the Reapers thereof 2. That three Angels have work to do between the rise of the 144000 and the harvest to this I say 1. The Angels are of the number of the 144000 for that is a Type of the Lords whole host mustered against Babylon 2. For the work there of the three Angels it belongs to the Harvest as part of it now ready to be reap'd Compare Rev. 18.4 Deut. 20.10 11 12. 3. The Scripture will warrant us to say that the Harvest of the earth was ripe at the rising of the Witnesses When