Admit they did Preach 't was but once and that in a time of Reformation c. Was it lawful for them to Preach once and not a second time if once then always lawful was it lawful in a time of Reformation and not in a time of Deformation but it seems you would have no time lawful for your gifted Brethren c. The fourth Objection From 1 Sam. 10 5 6. Saul and his servants did Prophesie This you say was extraordinary not of Office True it was of gift and all that have the ordinary gift may Prophesie in an ordinary way as is proved already c. The fifth Objection The example of Elisha called from the Plough 1 King 19. 19. and Amos from the Stalls Amos 7. 14 15. These you say were called extraordinarily and shewed it by their Gifts c. Answ Prophets now are called ordinarily and shew it by their Gifts too and comparatively to your selves extraordinarily too for these preaching Prophets though Nailers Taylors c. yet in Gifts not Humane but Divine they excel and shame you Rabbies they can Nail and Preach Plough and Preach make Tents and Preach if that be their Calling but it s your Trade you can do nought else that good is nor that neither as it should be and yet cry out against your gifted Brethren for want of Gifts when the truth is they have too much Gift for you and are as lawfully called to exercise it as Amos and Elisha The sixth Objection Joel 2. 28. Where the Lord promiseth in the Gospel times to pour out his spirit upon all flesh and their sons and daughters shall Prophesie c. The sum of all you say to this is just nought at all It was say you performed in the first times extraordinarily but it s now fulfilled in the Elect to whom God gives his Spirit abundantly yet with this difference formerly they had extraordinary gifts of the spirit but now ordinary I answer then they could prophesie in an extraordinary manner and prophets now ordinary still sutable to the gift for you consess its the same spirit only the gift differs be contended then although the Prophesie differs 1. You say These words are a promise not a procept for Lay-men And is not promise enough and as much nay more then precept promise of assistance is more then precept without it 2. You say Because the Lord promiseth to bless his people not only with Temporal but Spiritual blessings Ergo They must preach and use their gifts in publike And why in publike Sir I thought it was publike that troubled you so much when in private then that troubled you but now in publike that troubles you but what 's the reason of it I shall tell you Sir 1. Because God hath given them more knowledge of the Truth and greater Abilities then your selves for this you envie them and your pride it is which makes you cry out no Gift your own must be gift though no gift but an Art their 's no gift though no Art but a gift 2. Because they in the light of Truth discover your folly and falsehood in deceiving the people therefore they may not come in publike I shall tell you a Story and a true one too One of the gifted Brethren preaching and it was in publike too neer about the midst of the Ciy of Lond. and preaching such things as he knew were contrary to your Principles Practice when he had done he asked the Parson of the place if he had preached any untruth if he judged that he had he had his liberty to reprove it The Parson answered That he confesfed it was truth but it had been more meet to have been preached in private and not in publike especially seeing there was so much liberty c. So that the publike preaching of Truth I perceive is your grief and burden c. 3. You say Because the Lord promised to pour his spirit on his handmaids and they did prophesie c. therefore women who are forbidden now may preach c. And where are women forbidden women may Prophesie now as well as then they are forbidden to Prophesie in the Church which is not an absolute forbidding but women may prophesie with their heads covered 1 Cor. 11. You conclude That as for those promises Jer. 31. 34. that the sum of all is but this That Gods People shall by the Spirit have a more full and clear understanding of Divine Mysteries And shall they know Divine Mysteries and not declare them will you teach them to hide their Talent in the Earth viz. within themselves That there shall not need so much labour in teaching c. with so little fruit for they shall all be taught of God And what is the reason then that you must have so much teaching in your Congregations and so little profit that there are so few that know the Lord from their being taught of him as your selves confess an evident demonstration that neither you nor they are the Ministers of the Church of Christ for he owns none to be his Church but such as are taught of him c. Allegations out of the New Testament for Lay-preaching Answered The first Allegation FRom the Example of Christ If he Disputed in the Temple and Preached in the Synagogues without a Call then Lay-men that have Gifts may preach without a Call c. Luk. 2. 42. 46. Mat. 9. 35. Luk. 4. 16 17. Your answer is 1. That all Christs Actions are not for our imitation he did many things which we may not cannot do we must walk by Rule c. for that which was lawful in Christ to do may be unlawful in us c. I answer That those things in Christ which were imitable its lawful for us to do if made partakers of the same Spirit and those who are not are none of his Rom. 8. And where this Spirit is in power there are gifts according to the measure of its working and the Apostle saith to the Saints in general desire spiritual gifts but rather that ye may Prophesy 1 Cor. 14. And Christ himself saith that his Disciples should not only do such works as himself but greater then those Joh. 14. 12. If it be objected that Christ gave to his Apostles his Spirit and Power more then ordinary I answer They still acted according to the measure of the gift received and accordingly they exhort others to do the like and if there be not the same measure manifest in the Saints yet still according to the measure of the working of Christ in them they are to imitate and follow him and he that saith the Saints are not to imitate Jesus Christ in preaching and declaring his Truth and Gospel so far as they have received from him doth both deny and belie him Secondly You say 'T is true Christ disputed c. but did not preach unto them disputing is one thing and preaching is another I answer That disputing and preaching though
delusion 4. These could expound Prophetick Scripture 4. So can the Preaching brethren to your terror and amazement 4. You wrest them and darken them for your own ends 5. These subjected their prophesy to the judgement of the rest 5. So do the preaching brethren 5. You are puft with pride none may question what you say be it never so false 6. The Spirit of those was subject to them 6. So it is in the preaching brethren 6. But you are subject to your spirit of pride none may speak but your selves yet know not what prophesy is 7. These spake by two or three the others judged 7. So do the preaching brethren 7. But you speak all your selves but permit none to judge The ninth Objection Rom. 12. 6 7 8. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us whether prophesy let us prophesy c. Hence they gather that all that have gifts of prophesy may prophesy c. Your answer 'T is granted that they who have the gifts of prophesy may prophesy c. But who are they that have this gift they that are Prophets by Office and not those who who have abilities only c. I have answered this already That there is no Office of Prophesy but Gift only and they that have abilities may prophesy the Gift is given them for that end You say It will appear more fully in the context and scope of the Chapter having exhorted to duties of Piety in general ver 1 2. he comes ver 3. to 9. to particular duties of Ecclesiastical persons and Officers viz. that they should not be proud of their Gifts c. Sir it were well if you who so account your selves c. could learn that lesson but Sir you very much fail in your interpretation for the Apostle speaks to the whole Church throughout the whole Chap. and in these verses mentioned ver 3. he speaks to the whole Church Let no man think of himself c. He doth not say let no Ministers in office think c. but no man Let no man be proud or lifted up with his gift to think more highly then he ought of himself but to think soberly according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of Faith Mark as God hath dealt to every man you say every Minister in Office the Scripture saith every man c. ver 4 5. the Apostle relates to the whole Church We being many are one body c. What Sir do you suppose that none are the body of Christ the Church but the Priests or do you not see your ignorance that its the whole body the Apostle here speaks of 2. You say He sets down a distinct and perfect enumeration of all the standing officers in the Church c. To which I answer 1. That all your wisdom and Logick have not cannot distinguish these Officers 2. He enumerates the various gifts in the whole Church though officers are not excluded yet there is no office but depends upon gift else no Office And 1. He mentions Prophets Whether prophesie let us Prophesie c. that is let those who have that Gift make use of it for the good of the Church That this is the intention of the Scripture note first that the Apostle is speaking to the whole as you have heard Verse 5. 2. The terms under which it s express'd that is 1. Prophesie according to the proportion of faith answering ver 3. according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith Hence note that its every mans liberty nay duty to prophesie according to the proportion of Faith c. 3. See Verse 7. There if anywhere you have the Office or Ministry Let us wait on our Ministring c. The first is a Gift without Office according to the proportion of Faith the other is an office to be waited on though office depends upon Gift likewise You confess That this is not the extraordinary but ordinary Prophesying And why this ordinary more then that 1 Cor. 14. 31. But Sir it is not your understanding of the Scripture that makes you give the right Interpretation of it but because it suits best with what you drive at for that I perceive is your great work to make the Scripture speak to your own purpose be it what it will You conclude Now let us see what they can gather hence because Pastors and Teachers who were Prophets c. men in Office are commanded to Prophesie and Expound the Word therefore private persons may c. this is kneading trough Logick I answer Where did you read your Logick in Scripture that Prophets were called Pastors or Pastors and Teachers called Prophets but that you can say any thing make the Scripture to say any thing for your own ends And this is Logick learnt from your father the devil Read and apply Joh. 8. 44. The tenth Objection 1 Cor. 11. 5. Every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head covered c. Hence say they were women that did prophesy If gifted women did prophesy much more may gifted men thus Miriam Anna and Hilda prophesied 2 King 22. 14 c. This I suppose is a Scripture of your own invention in this place there are enough more to the purpose then this for I should be unwilling to do as your self turn the Scripture every way for your own ends yet Sir I shall a little trace you in this that so your pride and folly may appear You say Here is chalk for cheese we speak of ordinary gifted men and they flee to women that were called extraordinarily c. And how prove you that Sir Is there ever such a word in the Text 1 Cor. 11. 5. he saith pray or prophesy was it extraordinary praying too I wonder you left out that As for Phebe Rom. 16. 13. You say She was a Diaconess to minister to the sick and not to preach or have Peters Keyes jingling at her girdle I thought Sir you were very loth to lose the Keys having been Peters successors so long but I wonder how you got them from your father the Pope who sayth he keeps the chair still Aquila and Priscilla were helpers to Paul Rom. 16. 3. that is say you by their private instructions But who told you so that it was by their private instructions and why not publike as well as private So you say Not only men but women should teach their children servants neighbours the way of the Lord. Prov. 1. 8. 6. 20. Act. 18. 26. Tit. 2. 3. Confess the truth sometimes that out of your own mouth you may be condemned this is all we plead for that its the duty of the Saints according to the measure of their gift and proportion of faith to teach the way of the Lord to children neighbours any as opportunity is offered but I suppose you have a secret reservation or relation to that word private c. and why private Sir Is it lawfull in private
c. And know this will yet lie in your way and is not so easily removed as you imagine you pretend a distinction between gifting and sending Many thousands in the Nation are gifted you say but may not dare not preach c. Your gifted brethren it seems may not dare not preach you keep them in subjection but your sent ones though no gift at all they may and dare to do it or abuse it and what account will you give to the Lord for this at last think you You say None may preach in a constituted Church without sending in your way And yet in the constituted Church of Corinth they might all viz. who had the gift prophesy one by one you instance Barnabas and Saul Act. 13. 1. 2. who though they had gifts must be ordained Yet Saul preached Act. 9. 20 21 22. before he was ordained or had seen the Apostles see vers 27. And when Paul and Barnabas were Ordained it was not to preach in a constituted Church but to the world as you may see Act. 13. You say If bare gifts be a sufficient Call c. Then gifted boys may preach as the little gifted Boy at Stafford And why not Sir will you limit the holy One of Israel and dare you reproach the Scripture as you do out of the mouths of babes and sucklings he ordained strength and will confound his foes Then gifted women may preach you say This is your own conclusion because we say as the Scripture saith that gifted brethen may preach or prophesie therefore you in reproach will conclude that gifted women may preach but it s your conclusion and to your self I leave it and according to the Mystery of the truth I think there are but few if any besides women preachers among your selves You produce Mat. 10. 1. 5. Which you say fully clears the scruple where Christ distinguisheth gifting men from Authoritative sending v. 1. he gifts them vers 5. he sends them I answer First Is this such a sending as you have talked of in your mission Election Probation Ordination or an immediate sending as he sent Paul before he was Ordained Here is not a word of Ordination but sending no laying on of the hands of Christ but gifting sending and so the gifting and sending of the gifted brethren is when the Lord enables them in a measure unto it and saith in them to them go as in Paul Gal. 1. 16. As for those gifts you mention Mat. 10. 1. I query if you or any of your sent Brethren have those gifts or if you are so sent as those vers 5. You conclude two things that must concur in making a Minister gifts abilities qualifications both of life and learning This if rightly understood is a truth and I freely own it But you seem pag. 12. to bring in a mixture a hodge podge Arts Sciences Latine Greek Hebrew c. And is it true indeed that these gifts are required in a Minister then no Minister without them I wonder then the Apostles could be Ministers who are said to be illiterate or unlearned men Act. 4. 13. Or were they made partakers of the Spirit of Christ and are not the Saints now yea or else they are none of his Rom. 8 9. and is not the same Spirit sufficient now as then yea certainly to those who trust in him but it s the spirit of Antichrist that seeks out after humane helps to supply the room or want of this Spirit of Christ and having gotten it they grow proud of it are self-conceited in it make it their great idol and dare reproach the Spirit and power of the Lord appearing in his Saints Secondly He must have power and Authority from the Presbytery to exercise his Gifts he must not run before he be sent I have Answered this already what Presbytery sent Paul when he preached Act. 9. or the scattered brethren Act. 8. c. And where is that Presbytery among you that have power thus to send It seems you have high esteem of your Presbytery else you would not mention it so often when it s but a new trick of the Devil to give another name when the Prelate was out of date Alas you were ignorant of Presbytery your selves not long since but now the name lifts you up to Heaven although the nature of the Prelate still remains I suppose you harp so much upon this string that so they might preach nothing but what you approve and then your dark kingdom might it may be stand the longer but the Lord Jesus will consume and destroy Antichrist with the spirit of his mouth and the brightness of his coming You say All Preachers are sent either by God or by the Devil c. To this we fully assent without Tertullian your witness and I pray you look you unto it Are those who minister according to the measure of the gift given them in your account intruders usurpers sent of the Devil or of God Look to your self man you are upon a very sharp point and keen rock lest you fall or be split before you are aware Therefore I beseech you take a little view who are likeliest to be sent from God or the Devil your selves or your gifted Brethren The gifted brethren exercise the gift they have received either first when occasion and opportunity is offered to inform the judgement in the Gospel of Grace and Truth that so if the Lord work souls may be enlightned and converted or secondly to build up the Church in its most holy Faith he doth his Office as a member in the body that it may grow up in him who is the Head Your selves First make up a Church a body as you call it of Christ a monstrous body of prophane ones and give them Ordinances tell them they are Christians and so delude them and without infinite mercy damn them for ever Secondly Are ignorant of and envious to the truth the Saints and Servants of God Thirdly Do not the work of Christ preach baptize Believers converted gather Churches build up Saints but the contrary by way of opposition to all Fourthly For the most part are carnal loose base in conversation not so much as common civility or civil honesty yet all one sending Now be your selves judges who are sent from God and who from the Devil who doth the work of Christ and who the work of the Devil Oh consider this you who forget God lest he come and tear you in pieces and there be none to deliver Pag. 13. You say 'T is for Wolves and false Prophets to be self called and to come of their own accord c. Answ You say truth They are wolves who are Self-called Thieves and Robbers Joh. 10. you mention it but the Query lieth here still Who are the Self-called ones you or the preaching brethren And so who are the wolves you or them Gifted brethren they preach only by Gift as they have received as I said either for conversion
not but who are blind as my Messenger Thou False Prophet that pretendest thy self to be my Messenger and Minister yet most blind of all Who blind as thee pretending to open the eye and seest not thy self opening the ear but hearest not thy self vers 19. 20. Therefore first that thou mayst yet know there is mercy with me for the worst of sinners that I may be feared I advertise thee to kiss the Son least he angry if his wrath be kindled but a little Oh blessed are they then that trust in him Psal 2. Be not obstinate against my truth and servants any longer resolve not to break my bonds and cords of love and grace any longer If thou hear and obey there is yet the kiss of love for thee but if thou be still rebellious and persist in thine obstinacy my Sentence is that thou with that Beast before whom thou hast wrought miracles and deceived them that dwell on the Earth shall be taken both alive and cast into the Lake of fire burning with brimstone Rev. 19. 20. Now you say You proceed to Answer all the Cavils Scruples and Arguments which are brought in defence of Lay Preachers in which I shall trace you and finde you too light The first Objection Gen. 18. 19. The Lord commends Abraham for teaching his Family Ergo private persons may be preachers You say This was a long Cutlers Argument and that its like their Logick c. But believe it it s an Argument that hath more weight and perpetuity in it then your long Gownes although this is not an Argument much made use on for this purpose therefore I shall say the less to it in this place only give a hint or two that the weakness of your conclusions may appear 1. You say That was his Family and its one thing for a man to instruct and teach his Family and another thing to preach But stay a little Sir is it lawfull for a man to teach his Family and is it unlawfull for him to teach others May he not teach the same to others as he teacheth his Family Is it unlawfull for him to teach the way of God to others Was there ever the like heard of in this world It s lawfull for a preaching brother to preach and teach the way of God to his Family but not to others for preaching is but a speech or speaking of words and this I must do to my Family or nothing at all and this I may do it seems but not to others the reason rendred is because God commanded it but it seems if God had not commanded it then it had been unlawfull for a man to teach his Family too as if the law of Grace did not teach to do good to all Soul as well as Body others as well as Family but its evident there is a time when every man shall teach not only his Family but his brother and his neighbour too saying Know the Lord that is teach the knowledge of the Lord Jer. 31. 34 which was or is a condition preceding a glory that was to be revealed Now Sir if you and your Churches do all know the Lord from the least to the greatest and have no need of teaching let us know it when you come forth next in publike but if not be ashamed and silent for ever thus to mince and wrest Scripture to your own ends For till then they shall teach every man his brother in the constituted Churches for believers are all brethren and every man his neighbour so much is clearly implyed in the Scripture And thou shalt not suffer thy brother to sin but shalt reprove him and tell him his fault c. And comfort one another with the same comforts with which you your selves have been comforted 2 Cor. 1. 5. 2. You say If it be granted that Abraham did preach publikely yet it will not be any advantage because he was a Patriarch and a Prophet Gen. 2. 7. which Title is never given to any one in all the Scripture but only to one in office You are mistaken much in this likewise For first I say Prophesie is not an office but a gift so it was in the old so in the new Testament They prophesied according to the measure of the gift received and no further and I say that the Name or Title of office or officer is not given to a Prophet in all the Scripture because it is a gift and not an office Hence I conclude contrary to yours that as prophesie is a gift and Abraham and the rest of the Prophets did prophesie according to the measure of the gift received both in the old and new Testament So may every Nayler Taylor Artificer having received the same Spirit according to their measure prophesie and preach forth the truths of God for the good of others If it be objected That prophesying was an extraordinary gift and that spirit given but to few I answer In the time of the Law it was so but in the Gospel dayes it is not so prophesying in the Gospel it is to speak to edification exhortation and comfort 1 Cor. 14. 3. which is proper to all the brethren as in the same Chapter none exempted but women ver 34. and they may prophesie too though not in the Church or at least by permission of the Church 1 Cor. 11. 5. all men that have the gift may teach in the Church 1 Tim. 2. 12. its implyed by the womans prohibition the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophesie and this is given to the brethren Rev. 19. 10. and he that can speak experimentally of the work of Christ for him in him and testifie his worth and work to others is a Prophet and may nay ought to declare this Jesus to others every spirituall man is a Prophet but the Saints are all spiritual therefore all Prophets 1 Cor. 14. 37. If any be ignorant of this let him be ignorant Wherefore my brethren covet to prophesie c. ver 38 39. The second Objection From Numb 11. 25. to 30. Eldad and Medad prophesied and Moses wisheth that all the Lords people were Prophets Ergo All that have gifts may prophesie and preach In answer to this first you say That this was an extraordinary spirit of prophesie Grant it to be so yet the spirit of prophesie in the Gospel is ordinary and proper to all the Saints it s poured out upon them all and accordingly they may prophesie 2. The spirit of prophesie here spoken of was a spirit of Government as appears by the Context ver 16 17. you had done very well to have produced one Scripture in the Bible if you could that saith the spirit of government is a spirit of prophesie Blindness with a witness Do you not know that Moses was a prophet as well as a prince and Leader of the People and that spirit of prophesie that was upon Moses was given likewise to the Seventy I make no question but that they
most of the people of the Nation c. The eighth a bulwark all your wisdom is not able to undermine it 1 Cor. 14. 1. 31. Where the Apostle exhorts them to desire spiritual gifts but rather that they might prophesy and tels them vers 31. They may all Prophesy one by one hence our brethren conclude that all that have gifts may Prophesy c. In your answer to this you pretend a great deal of confidence and assurance that your gifted brethren are deluded with the word All when the truth is that your self it is who is under the delusion The Question you say will be who are meant by this word All vers 31. ye may all Prophesy c. You answer first Negatively It cannot be meant of all the Saints for then women should preach who are forbidden I answer 1. The Scripture it self is clear women are excepted ver 34. All may c. There is no limitation no prohibition of any except women and women are not altogether forbidden neither compare this with cha 11. 5. Joel 2. 28. women may Prophesy by permission and in subjection to the man c. 2. You say Private Professors are nowhere commanded to leave their Callings and go study Arts Sciences c. Oh blindness with a witness Is not the Spirit of Christ sufficient to help men to preach prophesy unless they study Arts and Sciences the Scripture saith ye may All Prophesy Private men is a title you have learnt from Rome its true it doth not say you must all leave your Callings and study Arts and Sciences this is not commanded to any nor practised by any and truly Sir I think there are none but Asses in the things of God who study Arts and Sciences to help them to preach and prophesie your Scriptures produced 1 Cor. 7. 20. ch 12. 29. I have answered already therefore I pass it in this place 2. You answer positively by All is meant all such as are Prophets the Text is clear ver 29. Let the Prophets speak c. Thus far you say truth by All is meant the Prophets that is those who have the spirit of Prophesie you proceed and say They were extraordinary your reason is because they spake by Revelation without study ver 31. I say they were not extraordinary but ordinary such as could speak to edification exhortation and comfort ver 3. and this many of the brethren could do then and can do now it s your selves that are no Prophets for you cannot speak by revelation without study but in the strength of the Lord the preaching brethren can And here it is you are lost you measure other mens condition by your own because you cannot preach without study therefore you think none else can c. I conclude with you That the word All is to be confined to the Prophets All ye that are Prophets may preach All ye that have the Spirit and so the Gift of prophesy may preach and prophesy for prophesy was no Office but a Gift as I have already shewed So then notwithstanding all your sophistications and wrenchings All that have the Gift may prophesie the preaching brethren that have the Gift may prophesy You say It s worth the observing that the word Prophet is never given to any but Ministers men in Office I have already answered that Prophet or Prophesy is never called an Office in the Scripture but a Gift and the distinguishment of Christ between a Prophet and a righteous man Mat. 10. 41. its not the Office but the Gift every righteous man hath not a Prophets gift there are various operations still the same spirit You say That all that are Prophets and can open hard Prophesies without study interpret Scripture to edification c. Who so hath these Gifts may use them But Sir where and when do you mean 1000 years ago but not now Why this is all we plead for man you have granted our desire let the Hearers be judges let the Saints be judges let the Prophets be judges God hath given that Spirit of Prophesy to interpret Scripture speak to edification and comfort of the Saints c. You say They are Prophets because the duties of Prophets are ascribed to them No need of so much of one thing being so clear and granted of all But you must needs have them extraordinary Prophets and here you harp or else you were gone But you say You will easily prove them to be extraordinary Prophets but stay Sir not so easily done as said But you say You prove it vers 30. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by c. They preached extemporary Revelations they were by the singular Revelation of the Spirit to give the sense of Scripture Answ 1. I wonder from whence you had this distinction of ordinary and extraordinary Prophets Doth the Scripture teach you any such thing I suppose you minde by extraordinary such as foretold things to come as in the Old Testament c. But why you call them extraordinary I know not and for ordinary such as by the same spirit can speak for the edifying of the Saints the difference is onely in the operation of the same spirit in some one way in some another in some more in some less but it s given to every one to profit withal 2. That upon your own account and in your language these Prophets were ordinary extraordinary were such as could foretel things to come as Elijah Elisha Esay c. In the New Testament Agabus Act. 11. 27. chap. 21. 10. 11. such these Prophets were not For the work of the one was to foretell of the other to build up and edifie the Church You say These Prophets are set amongst extraordinary Gifts or Officers Ephes 4. 11. I wonder how you dare thus to abuse the Scripture and truth who or where are those Gifts or as you call them Officers called extraordinary but it s your own ignorance if not baseness to delude the people under these terms you call Apostles and Prophets Evangelists extraordinary and pick out from amongst the same Pastors Teachers for ordinary What Scripture teacheth you this to call one ordinary the other extraordinary If I can shew you no Prophets c. you shall shew me no Pastors nor Teachers in the World Well you say There were three things objected 1. They could not be extraordinary because their doctrine was to be tryed c. You answer first That this trying and judging did not consist in calling them to an account c. But I say It consisted in judging the truth of what was spoken to try the spirits whether they were of God for there were and are false Prophets for this was the Church of Ephesus commended Rev. 2. 2. For trying those who said they were Apostles and were not and found them lyars 2. You say An extraordinary Prophet though in penning Scripture infallible yet in other things he might err you instance in Aaron Exod. 32.
4. Peter Act. 10. 15. about the calling of the Gentiles c. You will make the Scripture it self to be of small Authority if what you say were truth for all extraordinary Prophesies are written and if they might and did miscarry in Prophesying as you say then you derogate from the truth of Scripture for all extraordinary Prophesies are written And you say Extraordinary Prophets may err But Sir You have produced no Example of such erring in matter of Prophesy Paul and Peter and Aaron c. did not err in matter of Prophesie if they had they had been false Prophets like your self the point in hand at present is about Prophets in time of their Prophesy ye may all Prophesy c. And you say They were extraordinary and yet might err oh full of all subtilty What Are all the Prophesies in the Old Testament then if extraordinary Prophets might err in their Prophesyings Yet at last you come to say That all things are not revealed to one and that which is not revealed to one may be to another That is truth and that is the reason why all may Prophesy You say There might be something mingled with that which the Prophets received and they might adde something of their own c. therefore it was to be judged and tryed And is this truth which you lay down and yet are they extraordinary Note 1. Were there any in the Old Testament to judge of the Prophesies whether they were truth when spoken 2. Might the Prophets extraordinary as you call them in their Prophesies add of self unto it and err in it let all men judge of the truth of this Doctrine but it s like your self c. 3. Did those extraordinary Prophets prophesie according to the Rule of Scripture and look what others had said before them or by an immediate Inspiration As you confess these Prophets were to prophesie according to the rule of faith Isa 8. 20. to the Law and to the Testimony Was their prophesie subject to error had need to be judged might be something of self in it tryed if according to Scripture c. Yet extraordinary strange and unheard of confusion out of your own mouth shall you be judged c. 2. You say 'T is objected That those could not be extraordinary because it s said vers 3. They spake to edification exhortation and comfort as ordinary Prophets did You answer it easily The extraordinary Prophets as Amos Esay Ezekiel c. did preach to edification exhortation and consolation c. Answ 1. That it s more then the Scripture affirms if they did teach in this way of prophesying 2. If they did yet they took not their denomination of prophets from this kind of prophesying but those 1 Cor. 14. are called Prophets upon this account their speaking to edification c. And this was the end and work of Prophets to edifie the Church Eph. 4 12. not to foretel of things to come therefore the Apostle renders the reason of their prophesy that All may be instructed and All may be comforted vers 31. And again these Prophets were such as needed directions from the Apostle as to the manner and order in prophesying which if extraordinary they could rather have directed the Apostle as Agabus Act. 21. 10 11. 3. You say 'T was objected that the Apostle forbidding women did give liberty to men to preach you grant by way of concession The Apostle forbids women and enjoyns men to preach But what men not all Gifted but all gifted and Called I say All that are gifted are Called to exercise Gift and may prophesy 2. You draw the Argument thus The Apostle forbids women gifted or ungifted to preach therefore all men gifted or ungifted may preach c. This is the good your University doth you make you wise to do evil and pervert truth to draw scurrilous conclusions to dishonor truth and its servants All women gifted or ungifted are in this Scripture prohibited but all men that have gifts are authorized And truly I shall say thus much too that I should look upon that member to be very weak and useless that hath not some gift or other for good in the Church in the body But Sir your ridiculous conclusions will not establish you You conclude That all Orders Officers Members in the Church above Ministers may preach c. I thought you had owned none above you but that you had sate in Peters chair been supream Lords to binde and loose at your pleasure children to the holy Father at Rome but you 'l be sure to own such to be above you which are not in your account and then as good as none at all absolute Lords for all that You mention Apostles Prophets Evangelists but you think there is neither of these in being therefore you are the chief Lords over all but you are mistaken for Apostles Prophets Evangelists are no more extraordinary in the Church then Pastors Teachers c. for they are all reckoned together Ephes 11. And if you will say there are no Apostles Prophets c. I will say and make it good there are no Pastors Teachers Presbyters or others nay no Church of Christ without Apostles Prophets there may be a Church without Pastors c. but none without Apostles Prophets c. He hath set in his Church first Apostles then Prophets c. and after this Pastors and Teachers 1. Apostles men sent for the gathering of the Saints 2. Prophets next because when gathered the Prophets viz gifted brethren they exercise their gifts for the edifying of the body untill there be Pastors and Teachers and then the gifts of the Prophets are not to be quenched or slighted for they are Prophets still and out of the Prophets in process of time may be chosen men for Office Teachers by Office as well as Gift and these are elected by the Prophets viz. the Church for they are all Prophets though they have not Gifts alike So that first then in the Churches of Christ there are Apostles men sent to gather Apostles signifying as much and Prophets when gathered before the Ministry you so much cry up 2. Your selves are neither Apostles Prophets Evangelists Pastors nor Teachers according to the-Scripture account for first you gather no Churches but rather endeavor to scatter those that are gathered 2. You build up no Churches but ignorant carnal prophane creatures in a way of formality to their eternal ruine you administer no Ordinances according to the Rule of Christ but of Antichrist and your own inventions I shall conclude this with your Parallel The Parallel 1. These were Prophets 1. So are the gifted brethren 1. Your selves none nor know not what they are 2. Those no extraordinary but ordinary Prophets 2. So are the gifted brethren 2. Your selves not ordinary but Enemies to it 3. Those had a spirit of Revelation 3. So have the brethren else none of his 3. You are ignorant of it have a philosophical spirit of
and unlawfull in publike where doth the Scripture make this distinction But Sir I suppose I have found you you will keep it in private that so your Diana may stand your honour and esteem among the vulgar and that your god your bellies may be fed to the full c. Phil. 3. 18 19. As for that place 1 Cor. 11. 5. you say The words are not taken actively for womens preaching but passively for their attending on prayer and prophesying c. And who told you so Sir you are very quick of apprehension ready to give interpretations I suppose you may thank your Logick Rhetorick and Philosophy for it Is there ever such a word in the Text nay is it not evident that there is no such thing intended Examine the Scripture 1. He speaks of men in particular and women in particular every man that prayeth and prophesieth every woman that prayeth and prophesieth he doth not say every one that doth attend upon praying c. 2. If he intends the woman that she doth attend upon the praying of another then he intends the same to the men likewise for its one and the same only the manner differs So then there is no rule given to him that speaks in prophesie either man or woman 3. The Text saith Every woman that prophesieth c. Pray tell me Sir whether when a man prophesieth and preacheth the things of God whether the women that are present hearing do prophesie then because the man doth if the women then the men where now Sir you will make all Prophets anon both men and women 2. You say You must distinguish of prophesying there is prophesying which is preaching thus say some these women did not prophesie I thought you were gotten into a Wood almost lost you hear what some say But how can they tell who told either you or them so 2. You say Prophesying is taken for publishing and singing praise c. Psal 68. 11. there were shee preachers If so Sir why not men and women to teach and preach according to the gift See to this purpose Col. 3. 16. 3. You say Suppose you grant as your Divines confess that its the sense of the place that women in those times were inspired with the Spirit of prayer prophesie c. according to Joel 2. 28. yet they failing and abusing their liberty the Apostle enjoyns them silence for ever in publike 1 Cor. 14. 34 35. There is no such thing Compare that with this and it forbids but the disorder not the thing by permission in submission the women that have a gift may prophesie which is the sence of the Scripture The eleventh Objection 1 Cor. 16. 15 16. The house of Stephanas addicted themselves to the Ministry of the Saints c. Hence you say the Anabaptists ignorantly gather that a man may call himself to preaching c. Sir you are malitiously mistaken and the ignorance is in your self 1. In calling them Anabaptists for practising Baptism according to the Scripture that grieves you it seems but you have learnt a new way both for matter and manner for matter Babies instead of believers for manner sprinkling at the holy Font instead of baptising in a River You are loth to go in there with your long Gownes you have found a better way then ever was prescribed or practised who now Sir are the Ignoramusses 2. You belie them but that is no wonder you say they gather that a man may call himself to preaching It s your own forgery they never said so but 1. If God gives gifts then he cals them to it 2. The Church finding such gifts approves of them ownes them rejoyceth in them c. And as for the Scripture you mention you say first It doth not appear that they were Ministers and Preachers but rather Deacons and Church-officers who did serve and minister to the necessities of the Saints c. This is but your word and there is no probability for it but that you have learned to evade truth but all will not serve you I say therefore first they were Ministers and that preaching ones too 1. Ministers the word is clear for that They gave themselves to the ministry of the Saints 2. Preaching ones too ver 16. That ye submit your selves to such and to every one that helpeth with us and laboureth they were such as did help with the Apostles and labour In what In giving Alms or distributing No. Labour in the Gospel it s usually applyed that way I laboured more abundantly then they all saith Paul 1 Cor. 15. 10. and the Elders that labour in the word are worthy of honour c. this word Labour is nowhere given to Deacons 3. Yet out of office only by gift I prove it thus 1. It s the houshold of Stephanas that Paul baptized and was his first fruits at Achaia tell me when they did or any else chuse a houshold or family to be all Ministers in office 2. They addicted themselves to the Ministry were not called by office c. 3. That ye submit to such and every one that helpeth he doth not say to every one in office but to every one that helpeth that is every one that hath the gift and helpeth to the building up of the rest let others submit their judgements unto such in points of difference and controversies If Paul intended it to every Pastor in the Church of Corinth there were very many then it seems for there was the houshold of Stephanas and so every one else that doth labour with us how many officers will you make in the Church if what you say were truth You say They gave themselves to the service were not compelled or hired c. It seems at least then they were not such officers as the Parsons of the Nation are for they must be hired and well paid too or else they will not serve they are far from the temper of Stephanas and his family 2. You say Take it which way you please either for the service of the Presbyterie or Deaconship yet this is the same they being lawfully called did freely give themselves to the service c. Their calling I have already proved unto you not by office but gift and they readily did the service you call the Anabaptists the Firebrands of Societies Sir 1. They have been and will be a firebrand to Antichristian Societies and the Lord will by them dash such to pieces by their doctrine life and practise 2. They are the only upholders of lawfull Societies both Civill and Divine 3. Your selves are in deed and truth the firebrands of Societies both Civill and Divine For Civill you could be content to burn up Nations Parliament People and all for the establishment of your own interests burn up Churches the Societies of Saints rail and call them all that naught is when your selves are the men upon whom the guilt lieth you abuse and wrest the Scripture to your own ends and interest viz. No